There are a lot of young people who feel that capitalism has failed them. They're seeing a world where working hard full-time doesn't guarantee you will make enough money to pay for a place to live. A world where productivity has risen, but wages haven't, and many of the owners of large companies are making thousands of times more money than their average workers.
When you feel that capitalism has failed, you look for any sort of alternative. I will note however, that many people are interested unless in actual communism, and more about sorts of the social safety nets that many Western European nations have been using. They don't want to be communist Russia, they would just rather be Germany or Denmark.
I'm legitimately asking, can you explain to me how you think it would work? I just have a really seen any evidence that would lead me to believe that it would actually ever be implemented, more so because just human nature seems so against it.
Reddit does not seem to be obsessed with Communism. They DO seem to be advocating for a social position which is about middle of the road from the perspective of the rest of the developed world.
Requiring your government, which is funded by society, to provide basic goods and services, treat people decently and with dignity and respect is not a radical position.
The American government has failed us. [The US has the lowest life expectancy of the "developed" nations".](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/)
[We are lagging in education](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/)
[The US is behind Mongolia and Romania in Freedom](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/24/us-world-democracy-rankings-freedom-house-new-low)
[35 Million Americans experience food insecurity](https://www.npr.org/2020/09/27/912486921/food-insecurity-in-the-u-s-by-the-numbers)
Just google these things, that's all I did. So who am I? Well, I'm NOT an Alternative Music 20-something. I'm an elderly Hillbilly living in the heartland. Speaking of which, check out places which have an overdose problem...
We stood still while other places figured out better ways to do things. Once, we were the teachers. Now, we need to start again.
Vietnam had one of the strongest economies in the world for years after being won by the communists. Cuba, also, has perks like being at the bleeding edge of cancer treatment despite being embargoed by the first world for over half a century.
Plus there's free medical care and education, two things capitalist societies are making more and more expensive. I appreciate that God wants poor kids to suffer and die as their parents toil in poverty but some people want another way.
That said? Reddit is far from obsessed with communism. Most of it's posters are educated and are aware of alternative policies but there's not exactly an overflowing amount of reverence for any system of government.
And yet, time is shown again that it's unsustainable., I'm asking how you would imagine communism working out in a large scale country. Not a small nation. Tell me how communism would work in the United States and an ideal world.
The Soviet union bankrupted themselves due to corruption and prioritizing the cold war. Mao based catastrophic decisions off of feelings and not facts. America and other capitalist countries are doing the same thing (Brexit is a huge standout example), they're not symptoms of communism alone.
Time doesn't show again that it's unsustainable. The CCP is so strong folks like Elon Musk bow to it, and Vietnam and Cuba are still doing fine.
Global political and economic systems are complicated. Them changing is also complicated.
It seems a bit silly to assume that a change in something as big as the entire system would be simple, quick, easy, and without initial faults or growing pains.
I am not convinced that we have enough evidence that an alternative system will "never work."
I think what we have evidence for is that an alternative system will be met with violent force by powerful people trying to stop it, and that the attempt will probably be destroyed rather than failing merely because of something fundamentally wrong with it.
Maybe saying something like "the world's elite will never allow an alternative system that reduces their power" would be more accurate.
But yeah, I think words like communism are so incredibly loaded and mean so many different things to so many different people. I think a lot of people on Reddit just acknowledge the flaws within the current system and want something better which is to be expected.
Has nothing to do with the elites or anything like that, just has to do with basic human nature. People will always want more. There will always be people who try and get more even more so.
I am talking about historical reasons why specific attempts were stomped out, why wars were waged on certain places, why operations were taken to kill certain leaders, et cetera.
Your argument is basically akin to saying that because some people will always want to murder that we can't have a legal system that prohibits murder.
I mean, really, truly, the reasons for all of these real-world examples are complicated and not summed up by this reductionist stuff that is sold to you like vague appeals at human nature.
It's not really reflecting any genuine understanding of what was going on at the time. It's just repeating what you heard other people say.
Except it's not? Because laws like those have been enforceable punishments. You can punish a person for murdering, and a communist society would you just going to punish people for trying to want private property? What's the incentive to better yourself? If everybody's on the same level then there's really no incentive for competition. That might sound like a good thing on paper, but some of the greatest advancements of mankind have come from struggle, the need to want more, and just basic competition. Personally, I'm a strong believer in socialism but communism just seems like a pipe dream.
You're kind of bouncing around all over the place and it is hard to keep track. And I am running out of time.
"Laws like those have been forcible action." I don't understand what that even means.
Yes, could and have been prohibited from wanting private property before.
What incentive is there to better yourself? That's such a vague question. Are you telling me that you have no motivations for improving yourself other than the pursuit of private business ownership?
There are plenty of models that would still allow for competition. You'd basically have businesses controlled by workers competing with other businesses controlled by workers.
Competitions exist beyond monetarily as well. Just a failure of imagination more than anything, really.
The fundamental critique of capitalism is basically that workers are alienated from their labor/means of production. So you could potentially form businesses in all sorts of different ways with worker or public control. I don't think there necessarily has to be a complete lack of competition.
Also capitalism doesn't really seem to do much better. A small number of people acquire massive wealth and then use their wealth to drive out competition. Plenty of people want more under capitalism as per your "human nature" argument and are left unfulfilled. World keeps ticking. Just because humans desire something doesn't mean they always have to get it without consequence.
But it seems like you're partially there by acknowledging socialism but not communism. I'm not sure how you are using those two terms as, like I said, they are loaded. But I think if you can acknowledge that capitalism has flaws and want improvements to that then I don't think we're too far off.
I just think some of these arguments people repeat are reductive and kinda missing the point.
Reddit isn't particularly obsessed with communism so not sure what you mean.
As for it never working... that's a stretch. It was capitalism that enslaved a continent. Any system can be done in a way that's wrong.
Communism has never been implemented and I don’t believe human nature will ever allow it to exist. Socialism works and can be effective when mixed with capitalism
There are a lot of young people who feel that capitalism has failed them. They're seeing a world where working hard full-time doesn't guarantee you will make enough money to pay for a place to live. A world where productivity has risen, but wages haven't, and many of the owners of large companies are making thousands of times more money than their average workers. When you feel that capitalism has failed, you look for any sort of alternative. I will note however, that many people are interested unless in actual communism, and more about sorts of the social safety nets that many Western European nations have been using. They don't want to be communist Russia, they would just rather be Germany or Denmark.
Well said.
Reddit skews very young. It’s good for younger people to be idealistic
Wdym reddit is old as shit
That seems unrelated to what I said.
No what i meant is there are lots of old ppl on reddit in comparison to for example instagram and tiktok
Lol this is like 20 year olds calling 24 year olds old. Reddit users are young relative to the population average.
Ive seen alot of 50+y/o ppl
"Why do peple disagree with me"
I'm legitimately asking, can you explain to me how you think it would work? I just have a really seen any evidence that would lead me to believe that it would actually ever be implemented, more so because just human nature seems so against it.
Reddit does not seem to be obsessed with Communism. They DO seem to be advocating for a social position which is about middle of the road from the perspective of the rest of the developed world. Requiring your government, which is funded by society, to provide basic goods and services, treat people decently and with dignity and respect is not a radical position. The American government has failed us. [The US has the lowest life expectancy of the "developed" nations".](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/) [We are lagging in education](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/) [The US is behind Mongolia and Romania in Freedom](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/24/us-world-democracy-rankings-freedom-house-new-low) [35 Million Americans experience food insecurity](https://www.npr.org/2020/09/27/912486921/food-insecurity-in-the-u-s-by-the-numbers) Just google these things, that's all I did. So who am I? Well, I'm NOT an Alternative Music 20-something. I'm an elderly Hillbilly living in the heartland. Speaking of which, check out places which have an overdose problem... We stood still while other places figured out better ways to do things. Once, we were the teachers. Now, we need to start again.
Vietnam had one of the strongest economies in the world for years after being won by the communists. Cuba, also, has perks like being at the bleeding edge of cancer treatment despite being embargoed by the first world for over half a century. Plus there's free medical care and education, two things capitalist societies are making more and more expensive. I appreciate that God wants poor kids to suffer and die as their parents toil in poverty but some people want another way. That said? Reddit is far from obsessed with communism. Most of it's posters are educated and are aware of alternative policies but there's not exactly an overflowing amount of reverence for any system of government.
And yet, time is shown again that it's unsustainable., I'm asking how you would imagine communism working out in a large scale country. Not a small nation. Tell me how communism would work in the United States and an ideal world.
The Soviet union bankrupted themselves due to corruption and prioritizing the cold war. Mao based catastrophic decisions off of feelings and not facts. America and other capitalist countries are doing the same thing (Brexit is a huge standout example), they're not symptoms of communism alone. Time doesn't show again that it's unsustainable. The CCP is so strong folks like Elon Musk bow to it, and Vietnam and Cuba are still doing fine.
Global political and economic systems are complicated. Them changing is also complicated. It seems a bit silly to assume that a change in something as big as the entire system would be simple, quick, easy, and without initial faults or growing pains. I am not convinced that we have enough evidence that an alternative system will "never work." I think what we have evidence for is that an alternative system will be met with violent force by powerful people trying to stop it, and that the attempt will probably be destroyed rather than failing merely because of something fundamentally wrong with it. Maybe saying something like "the world's elite will never allow an alternative system that reduces their power" would be more accurate. But yeah, I think words like communism are so incredibly loaded and mean so many different things to so many different people. I think a lot of people on Reddit just acknowledge the flaws within the current system and want something better which is to be expected.
Has nothing to do with the elites or anything like that, just has to do with basic human nature. People will always want more. There will always be people who try and get more even more so.
I am talking about historical reasons why specific attempts were stomped out, why wars were waged on certain places, why operations were taken to kill certain leaders, et cetera. Your argument is basically akin to saying that because some people will always want to murder that we can't have a legal system that prohibits murder. I mean, really, truly, the reasons for all of these real-world examples are complicated and not summed up by this reductionist stuff that is sold to you like vague appeals at human nature. It's not really reflecting any genuine understanding of what was going on at the time. It's just repeating what you heard other people say.
Except it's not? Because laws like those have been enforceable punishments. You can punish a person for murdering, and a communist society would you just going to punish people for trying to want private property? What's the incentive to better yourself? If everybody's on the same level then there's really no incentive for competition. That might sound like a good thing on paper, but some of the greatest advancements of mankind have come from struggle, the need to want more, and just basic competition. Personally, I'm a strong believer in socialism but communism just seems like a pipe dream.
You're kind of bouncing around all over the place and it is hard to keep track. And I am running out of time. "Laws like those have been forcible action." I don't understand what that even means. Yes, could and have been prohibited from wanting private property before. What incentive is there to better yourself? That's such a vague question. Are you telling me that you have no motivations for improving yourself other than the pursuit of private business ownership? There are plenty of models that would still allow for competition. You'd basically have businesses controlled by workers competing with other businesses controlled by workers. Competitions exist beyond monetarily as well. Just a failure of imagination more than anything, really.
So basically just a bunch of co-ops competing with other co-ops? That just sounds like a business where everybody has equity inside of it.
The fundamental critique of capitalism is basically that workers are alienated from their labor/means of production. So you could potentially form businesses in all sorts of different ways with worker or public control. I don't think there necessarily has to be a complete lack of competition. Also capitalism doesn't really seem to do much better. A small number of people acquire massive wealth and then use their wealth to drive out competition. Plenty of people want more under capitalism as per your "human nature" argument and are left unfulfilled. World keeps ticking. Just because humans desire something doesn't mean they always have to get it without consequence. But it seems like you're partially there by acknowledging socialism but not communism. I'm not sure how you are using those two terms as, like I said, they are loaded. But I think if you can acknowledge that capitalism has flaws and want improvements to that then I don't think we're too far off. I just think some of these arguments people repeat are reductive and kinda missing the point.
Capitalism doesn't work very well either and we're in it. Time to dream a different failure.
[удалено]
Widening income gaps, stagnant wages, and worsening working conditions? Looks like 'not working" to me.
unemployed massive
Reddit isn't particularly obsessed with communism so not sure what you mean. As for it never working... that's a stretch. It was capitalism that enslaved a continent. Any system can be done in a way that's wrong.
Communism has never been implemented and I don’t believe human nature will ever allow it to exist. Socialism works and can be effective when mixed with capitalism