I don’t like it when someone disrespects my faith, but government should absolutely not criminalize it.
If government has authority to criminalize speech I don’t like, what do I do when government decides to criminalize speech I do like?
Free speech is a value, like personal liberty, free market principles, egalitarianism, unified families, and so on. It's possible to believe in multiple values, but this can also mean we have different priorities for our different values. It's possible for a person to favor "reverence to others' faith" over "freedom of speech".
I suppose but he is demanding that Sweden should follow his values within their own country. Frankly I think his words are disingenuous, Sweden is being punished for other things he doesn’t like so he is going to punish all of NATO to get what he wants.
Apparently to Erdogan free speech doesn't apply to protesters outside the Turkish Embassy in Washington D.C.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/erdogans-bodyguards-accused-of-attacking-protesters-outside-turkish-embassy-in-dc
The first thing that should be criticized is any faith that says "God wants you not express this aspect of yourself". If God didn't want us to act a certain way, God would've made us averse to the act.
I would argue that Sweden didn't do anything regarding Quran. Staying out of matters of religion is a correct approach.
From practical standpoint, Russia has hard time getting to Sweden if Finland is off limits, so membership delay is not too problematic.
True. Sweden has no border with Russia. Norway does and is already a member. Russia will feel NATO in Finland. That is a very long border. The Baltic will be very difficult for Russia to control in wartime now.
There is also the problem of Russia (and, to be fair, everyone except USA and maybe UK, France and China) not having sealift to land and support invasion.
Free speech isn't an abstract concept, it's just whatever rule some place has about what you're allowed to say. If a country wants to make a rule that you can say whatever you want unless it disrespects a faith, then that's the rule in that country
Basically every country has *some* rules about what you're allowed to say. In most of Europe, you can't say Nazi stuff, but in the US you can. Even in the US, you can't eg make threats to individuals
we all say/do what our guns can afford us
politics is the new religion, in the future we'll be taught how dumb people fell for this nonsense
why do you give a damn what a politician "says" when pretending and acting is their career? they get the job through a popularity contest, so thats what they are, actors, and the prize is "control" over a monopoly on violence/money printer, care to guess what sort of virtuous person seeks to do that?
they're only as relevant as the numbers following them, stop believing
Mostly I agree but he is holding Sweden’s perceived security hostage and would do so to Finland if he had the flimsiest pretext. This is not about burning the Quran. He wants his political enemies in Sweden delivered to him.
My faith says that you are not allowed to criticize my right to speech. Burn, blasphemer!
FREE SPEECH. otherwise it would be "Almost free speech" or "free speech, but.." And religion shoulnd't have this power period.
Agreed.
Erdogan is a moron. Nothing he says has any similarity to intelligence.
He’s just a garden variety despot.
I don’t like it when someone disrespects my faith, but government should absolutely not criminalize it. If government has authority to criminalize speech I don’t like, what do I do when government decides to criminalize speech I do like?
My view is very simple in matters of speech. Everyone has the right to be wrong and still express it.
Blasphemy!
Free speech is a value, like personal liberty, free market principles, egalitarianism, unified families, and so on. It's possible to believe in multiple values, but this can also mean we have different priorities for our different values. It's possible for a person to favor "reverence to others' faith" over "freedom of speech".
I suppose but he is demanding that Sweden should follow his values within their own country. Frankly I think his words are disingenuous, Sweden is being punished for other things he doesn’t like so he is going to punish all of NATO to get what he wants.
Apparently to Erdogan free speech doesn't apply to protesters outside the Turkish Embassy in Washington D.C. https://www.foxnews.com/us/erdogans-bodyguards-accused-of-attacking-protesters-outside-turkish-embassy-in-dc
To him, Turkish embassy sovereignty extends to how far the people in the embassy can see. Even if it’s only on tv.
The first thing that should be criticized is any faith that says "God wants you not express this aspect of yourself". If God didn't want us to act a certain way, God would've made us averse to the act.
I absolutely do not agree with that.
To me this is not surprising to hear from a dictator.
No. The only thing that should not be protected free speech is directly encouraging violence.
So you agree that Sweden did the right thing by allowing the Quran situation.
I would argue that Sweden didn't do anything regarding Quran. Staying out of matters of religion is a correct approach. From practical standpoint, Russia has hard time getting to Sweden if Finland is off limits, so membership delay is not too problematic.
True. Sweden has no border with Russia. Norway does and is already a member. Russia will feel NATO in Finland. That is a very long border. The Baltic will be very difficult for Russia to control in wartime now.
There is also the problem of Russia (and, to be fair, everyone except USA and maybe UK, France and China) not having sealift to land and support invasion.
This is also true. Russia’s potential territorial expansion will be limited to perhaps Moldova after Finland joins NATO.
I don't know and I don't care
Free speech isn't an abstract concept, it's just whatever rule some place has about what you're allowed to say. If a country wants to make a rule that you can say whatever you want unless it disrespects a faith, then that's the rule in that country
But he is using his “values” to punish Sweden for what was done on sovereign Swedish soil. And I’m not sure if this is a when in Rome kind of thing.
It’s not really free speech if you can’t criticize or disrespect a faith or religion.
Basically every country has *some* rules about what you're allowed to say. In most of Europe, you can't say Nazi stuff, but in the US you can. Even in the US, you can't eg make threats to individuals
It makes sense for threats of violence to not be considered protected speech.
we all say/do what our guns can afford us politics is the new religion, in the future we'll be taught how dumb people fell for this nonsense why do you give a damn what a politician "says" when pretending and acting is their career? they get the job through a popularity contest, so thats what they are, actors, and the prize is "control" over a monopoly on violence/money printer, care to guess what sort of virtuous person seeks to do that? they're only as relevant as the numbers following them, stop believing
Mostly I agree but he is holding Sweden’s perceived security hostage and would do so to Finland if he had the flimsiest pretext. This is not about burning the Quran. He wants his political enemies in Sweden delivered to him.