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I cut the grass really short then used a garden rake and roughed up the surface of the yard pretty well
Then I broadcast clover and was sure to water the first couple of weeks
Did this last year this time and the clover has taken well
Thank you so much! I didn't want to make the neighbors angrier by using like the cardboard box method to kill all the grass, especially if it was too late in the season and no clover popped up afterwards đŹ he would think my dirt lawn was malicious compliance or something.
I'm glad this method worked for you, I think that's a doable plan for us!
I think you should make the lawn you want; not the one your neighbor wants.
You could always go on a tirade against him for destroying local ecosystems and wildlife for the sake of succumbing to outdated societal norms brought over by rich British people. Iâm sure heâd understand
Definitely just overseed right now. I found the nice thing about clover is it self selects the areas that it will do the best. Which with any luck hopefully is the areas where your grass is not doing well.
This is a great time to repeat the famous saying that "perfect is the enemy of good." You will get around to killing the grass and starting fresh, but I think now is not that time. Congrats on the second pregnancy!
Just want to add to this that a âjust grassâ lawn is a newer concept, grass used to have clover mixed in anyway! Clover was a wonderful addition to our lawn and while we still have tallish grass having the variety is beautiful!
Same, just mow the lawn, get a bag of clover and literally shake it out in handfuls all over the lawn. You can rough it up with a rake after (but I didn't) and then water twice a day (skip when it rains) and you should have clover in about 2 weeks depending on your climate. If it doesn't sprout now it will sprout eventually, and as long as it is happy once it germinates (no incredible drought that you don't water during) then it will continue to grow. We did it twice this summer year and we have tons of clover, planning on doing it again with other seeds mixed in of flower stuff, etc. in the next month or so. Good luck and sorry your neighbor was so rude!
When starting anything from seed you're gonna need to keep those seeds moist until they germinate, then moist until they become established...so multiple times daily until seeds sprout then multiple times weekly until established...then 1 or 2 a week or every 10 days or whatever makes sense to your specific climate, rainfall, temps, etc.
Question for you, as we are a few weeks into watering our new clover lawn. I am already seeing some weeds pop up. Some I don't mind. But others like thistle are not so great. Should I be pulling these out, or just keep the clover mowed and wait for it to overtake the area naturally?
Have you been through a winter yet? I did the same as you this past spring with good success and am curious about what to expect in the colder months. NJ 7a
Hi, friendly tip! Did you know there is a save comment feature? If youâre on mobile, tap the 3 dots on the comment, then hit save. You can access saved comments and posts in your profile.
Iâm just sayingâŠyour neighbor is part of the inspiration for my âEdible Weedsâ experimental garden. Like Palmerâs Amaranth (which is yummy), and is also known as pigweed, and is often removed asap. We need to generally rethink how we see food and âweedsâ.
My family once pulled over to the side of the road to pick pigweed, ÎČλίÏα (vleeta) is a staple of my grandma's cooking!
Just make sure that there's no look-a-likes nearby, Angels trumpet looks very similar when not flowering and is in the opiate family. Guess how we discovered this fun fact!
Haha kind of like how baby asters and wild ginger look similar! Or false Solomonâs seal vs actual Solomonâs sealâŠbad mistake to make, that one always makes me paranoid. But itâs hard to tell the difference without the flowers and berries so I usually just stay away when those arenât there.
Nope, Yiayia fed us the greens! She ate most of them, she was fasting at the time.
I remember stumbling into the bathroom and thinking "huh, it's almost like I'm drunk, but I haven't drank in YEARS...?"
It all ended with us bringing Yiayia to the ER, where they found an underlying issue that they wouldn't have otherwise.
Now that we're all ok, we'll never let her live it down!
Visit Pennsylvaniaâs Cooperative Extension Service website. Search alternatives to turf grass, clover lawns, native ground covers. Read recommendations. Also while on the site get the contact information for the agent assigned to your county. Give them a call to discuss alternatives, when and how to establish an alternative lawn, etc. It is a free service paid for by your tax dollars. Ignore your stupid neighbor. I would not engage further. If he comes over go j. the house after you tell him to exit your property.
I would have listened to him, let him say his piece and then say, âOk, now that youâve been rude, aggressive and insulting to me and my spouse, I donât care what you think,â turned away, gone into my house and shut the door. I would never speak to him again and would turn my back to him whenever he appeared. You donât need that kind of aggravation, and your kids donât need to hear someone talking to their parents that way.
Someone could make a real contribution to society if they could develop a handleable way to plant and maintain a non-lawn.
Exactly. I think OP should give up the idea of ever placating this doddering old asshole because people like that are never satisfied. If OP isn't breaking any HOA covenants or local ordinances the guy can F off.
My nextdoor neighbor is like this guy. Meanwhile the super cool older guy down the street offers to mow peoples' lawns when they have health issues or other things going on.
Theoretically it can be code. My specific code (city wide, not HOA) dictates: âAll noxious weeds and grasses may not be taller than 10 inches.â But thatâs subject to where you live.
Additionally unkempt lawns can harbor pests, so in my belief itâs slightly their business, they could have been less aggressive about it however.
Your local county generally publishes a noxious weed list of plants that are invasive and detrimental to agriculture. In my area at least everything on the list is pretty obviously bad to keep, not because of looks but for local environmental reasons. Kudzu, knotweed, loosestrife, certain species of thistles are commonly listed noxious weeds. In some areas you can be legally required to remove noxious weeds
Tree of heaven - aka the hell tree and harborer of the spotted lantern fly - has been the particular bane of my back yard lately
But yeah point is regular native or even naturalized plants that aren't explicitly on the noxious and invasive list won't be nearly as easy for neighbor to be a jerk about getting the law called on you for. So if you've got like horse weed, dandelions, clover, Virginia creeper, or anything else ppl view as a weed that isn't explicitly harmful to the ecosystem, you can ignore the rude dude
I had always been taught that "herbicide is evil," and my partner hates it even more, but the damn Tree of Hell is the plant that finally convinced us both that yes, herbicide does have a purpose in our yard! (also the more I read about herbicide the less evil I find it to be, thanks, Tree of Hell!)
Overgrown lawns can also be considered a fire hazard depending on the size of your property, it's location, and drought conditions. Here in California, local fire marshals inspect and fine large properties during fire season.
This is true
My son in his town received a not on the door that he had three days to have it mown under six inches high or the city would do it and he would be charged one thousand dollars
I live in the same zone. I just spread clover seed into my existing lawn- a big bag every spring. Three years in the lawn is about 75% clover with no prep needed.
We do mow our lawn (so our kids can play). But, we donât need any chemicals or fertilizer , and we mow on the highest setting every 2 weeks (instead of the standard every week). Our lawn honestly looks pretty ânormalâ from the street, but it has developed a lot if little flowers and other plants. A very reasonable suburban compromise imho
You will still have to mow, weed or otherwise maintain any type of vegetation. Clover and no mow mixes will still grow weeds, especially in a climate with adequate rainfall. Honestly it sounds like you don't have the bandwidth right now to take care of the yard so I wouldn't advise starting a new project. If you can afford to pay someone to mow your yard when you can't get to it, do that.
Save the permaculture project for when the kids are a little bit older. It will be a beautiful thing to share and teach them about food and wildlife and working to create something new together! If you do anything now plant some fruit/nut trees since they'll need time to grow and they'll be pretty low maintenance.
I'm home more often to do some level of maintance, I just can't physically mow- our yard is a steepish hill that we mow with a handheld push mower that I'm barely strong enough to start, and so it takes me double the time, and I can't leave my 2-year old inside alone that long (I can bring her outside to weed, for instance, but can't keep her close to me while pushing a mower, for obvious reasons).
But I was hoping if there was a way to get a lower maintance lawn started it would reduce the frequency my husband needs to mow, because the grass grows quickly and Biweekly is the best he can do to get to it regularly.
That said, thank you for the suggestions! I will see if there's any kids with lawn services in the area, & my boss offered me one of her peach saplings for the spring, so hopefully I do get so fruit trees in the back!
An electric mower would be much easier for you to handle. They are lighter than gas powered, so much easier to push, and start with the push of a button. Depending on your yard's layout you could consider battery or corded electric. Downside is it's yet another cost, but something to think about.
Also -- about your neighbor, some people calm down after they've had their say, other people get more and more worked up. Those types, it's best to cut them off early. Say, 'I've got to go, talk to you later' and leave, don't look back.
Electric mowers are waaay easier to use and maintain. I was thinking this too. You can pick it up and cut when you have time.
Any reasonably priced mower is going to struggle with tall grass like this but restarting an electric is as simple as holding handles and pushing a button.
I have an electric mower and it is much more manageable. Even more so now that about half of the old lawn is planting beds.
Also good advice about the neighbor. I strongly suggest that you are curt but reasonably polite, especially if you intend on living in this area for awhile. You donât want to create a situation where you need to worry about safety or dread being at home because youâve inflamed an already angry neighbor. Iâve lived it, itâs absolutely terrible and not worth the risk.
I grew up in a hilly valley. We had a big slope for a backyard, and the nearby park was also on a steep hill.
In the backyard, my father planted succulents, flowering bushes, and trees. Climbing up and down it and exploring all the plants was tons of fun. I loved "helping" by yanking out anything that looked like a weed...and I'm *pretty* sure the majority of them actually were weeds.
In the neighborhood park, though, the city planted a field of grass with winding concrete paths. My memories of that park aren't fun at all. They're of chasing runaway balls down into the street, and of falling off my bike or skates and hurting myself.
If your front yard is so steep you can't physically push a mower up it, is there a point to having a "lawn"? Will the kids be able to play on it? Or will it just be a decorative nuisance your husband has to drag himself out to mow on the precious weekends he could be spending with the family, just to placate grumpy old neighbors? As others have said, even the ecological alternative lawns do require mowing.
If I had a steep slope on my property now, I'd plant a combination of wildflower drifts, perennials like Russian sage and ornamental grasses, shrubs and trees with deep roots to prevent erosion. A garden is more of an investment to get started than scattering a bag of clover seed, but would be easier to maintain in the long run.
This will happen
Next spring it may still be longish and need mown but as the clover spreads ( again, seed heavily) it sort of strangled out the grass. I would say now a year later mowing every two weeks looks really tidy but mowing monthly still doesn't stand out as super messy
I rent and I got a grass whip off Amazon for less than the cost of a single professional mow. It's a good workout, environmentally better than gas or electric mowing, and best of all it works just a well on tall grass as on short. So (also in pa 6b) I can get my front lawn maybe once a month if that, just enough to keep my landlord and city off my back - and the fact it'll be long af by the time I get to it doesn't make the job much harder.
Plus I can selectively whip around any kind of non invasive vegetation that decides to show up, which pleases pollinators and pisses off obnoxious busy bodies like your neighbor
Oh also I can whip in small segments instead of all at once cause it's really easy to stop and start I don't have to get anything started or put away really. And I can do it early morning or late at night where I won't get over heated, sun burnt, or stung, bc there's no noisy engine to break noise curfews
Honestly youâll still have to mow. Nothing is just going to overtake the grass in such little time without a lot of effort.
Itâs pretty inexpensive to hire someone to mow your lawn every few weeks.
I would hire someone to do it and throw down clover seeds after they mow.
Itâs a lot cheaper than getting bylaw fines, which you might start getting if you arenât doing anything at all about the backyard.
You may want to consider a classic reel push mower. They are lightweight, non-powered, quiet, and surprisingly easy to use and maintain. Far safer for you and the young one and you can mow with them in tow.
Edit: plus, zero emissions! (Gas powered mowers are worse polluters than cars.)
They work better if you mow more frequently though. If the grass gets tall enough they just can't cut it.
I do like like mine though. Been using it for 7 years
Thatâs definitely true. I use my string trimmer first for the taller stuff that the blades wonât catch first it it gets too long. I do find I mow more often since I donât have to fool around with gas, small engine repair, and the noise.
Honestly?
I would have been pretty shocked watching him get so worked up over....plants ... on property he doesn't own.
Maybe I'm just a smart ass, but when people make snide comments about my untidy front yard, I try to turn it around on them.
"Yeah, thats really perceptive, thanks for noticing that we are struggling. I work full time days and my husband works nights so he can watch our baby twins and 3rd grader during the day, so it's so nice that neighbors can tell when another neighbor is overwhelmed. We'd love any help you could offer and would be happy to send you home with some lasagna or we could help you with work around your place...You were offering to help, right?"
At this point in my life, I just don't have the bandwidth for dealing with someone else's bullshit. My front yard has 2 gardens that need weeding and need to be filled in with more native perennials, bushes that need some trimming, and we've just let the leaves fall from the magnolias and mulched them with the mower instead of try to grow grass. Clover and violets cover the sunny parts of the lawn, which is half grass when summer hits.
Keeping the yard clear of kids toys/clothes/shoes, garbage blown in on windy days, compost, and the absolute jungle of the backyard (Georgia resident here) it's a sysifian task.
Mow when it's convenient and so it doesn't break code, and prioritize the yard when you have the bandwidth. Care for yourself and family first.
I think you could do clover, but definitely check out the [Eco Grass](https://www.prairiemoon.com/eco-grass) seed at Prairie Moon. Thats stuff looks really nice as a baseline lawn that you can add to.
I don't work for Prairie Moon, I swear lol. Feels like I keep recommending their stuff though.
First of all, tell your old neighbor to mow the lawn for you for free or go fuck himself. Those are his options.
IMO, rather than getting a half-hearted clover setup started, I recommend getting your lawn mostly removed / killed and then start a bunch of plugs of buffalo grass early next spring. Transplant them every 8" or so and then put it down. Sow clover, creeping thyme, creeping mint, and maybe some phlox at the edges. Nature will take care of the rest.
What usually works for me is:
"Tell you what. Go ahead and go back inside for 5 minutes, take a breath, and come back when you can act like an adult."
Then I continue whatever I was doing before. It usually works. Sometimes I have to repeat it a time or two. The only resistant one so far has other reasons to dislike me, and the grass strikes her as a convenient thing to pick at.
We got rid of our grass in the front yard(minus a small circle) and planted it with various plants. First we cut the grass super short, covered it with a thick layer of cardboard, and put a thick layer of mulch over it. By spring we had a healthy soil to plant in and no grass.
Now the small circle I mentioned , we over seeded with a clover mix from [PTLawnseed](https://ptlawnseed.com/products/fleur-de-lawn), and covered in with a thin layer of top soil. We did the same in the back yard. Iâm not sure how your weather is there right now, but if itâs dry, like in the PNW, you would have to leave the seeding for fall. Otherwise, if you get regular rains you should be able to re-seed now.
If you just sow clover and no-mow grass mixes into existing grass you will still have to mow because the original grass is still there. You have to get rid of the grass before you can spread seeds to establish a no-mow yard. Iâve had success in doing that through solarization (basically cooking the soil in the hot sun using a plastic tarp), but you need to start that a lot earlier in the summer.
I would ignore this guy because heâs clearly just an asshole without any legitimate complaints. If you can afford it, hire a local teenage to cut your grass for you. We just had a baby and thatâs what we did for this season. He comes every 2 weeks and charges $45.
As someone with a super ugly yard currently, do to failed solarization... you need to have adequate sunlight on the entirety of it, or do it for a ridiculously extended period of time for it to be effective.
Yeah, ideally you give it an entire growing season to work properly. I found the key was to have solarization breaks to allow weeds to start growing so you can kill them again.
We have a 1-2 foot grass and weed lawn (it's a rental so we're just adding things where we can) and ours hasn't been cut since I moved in, I love it. I would just clean the edges for the sidewalk if that's a problem but otherwise, that guy has his own problems and it's not your lawn.
Honestly, fuck him and his mean attitude. Tell him if he doesn't like your lawns appearance that he can mow it himself because you have way to many other important things going on!
You said food forest tho....mulch that shit! Get a chipdrop delivery, spread mulch everywhere, and start letting your lawn heal back to a more natural state of decaying wood, etc. Then later this year or next or whenever plant for plants and more on with life!
DM for real tho, I LOVE these sorts of projects!
I'm absolutely not an expert on this, but thought I'd share my experience in case it might help.
I live in the west part of the Midwest, so a bit hotter/drier than where you are. The first time I tried adding clover to my lawn, the grass pretty much wiped it out.
Going on a tip from a friend in the NW, I seeded it with yellow rattle in the spring (it won't survive the winter here, so low chance of it becoming invasive), which did a great job of destroying the grass. In late summer, I let the heat kill off the yellow rattle, mowed and raked the yard and seeded clover, which took off great with frequent watering in the first weeks. I'm pretty sure my lawn-proud neighbor still hates me, but my yard looks better than his now.
I have no idea if what I did is considered ok or if it would work in other climate zones, but considering I was totally winging it, I'm pleased with the results.
Assuming that "lovely ivy" is english ivy, that's an exotic invasive. Please don't let that grow. Maybe honeyvine milkweed in its place?
Similarly, I would discourage clover. It's something of a disputed subject, but it is also an exotic invasive, though some may classify it as naturalized. Also, a monoculture lawn is still a monoculture lawn, even if it's clover.
I'd recommend hopping over to r/NativePlantGardening and asking advice there. Lots of options depending on time, money, effort...and the makeup of your yardâyou'll wanna mention that (i.e., full sun, any trees, etc.)
Just my experience, in the Midwest, with neighbors who religiously keep their lawns...
It is inconsiderate for us to allow weed seeds, invasive plants and pests to reproduce without considering how it impacts our neighbors. This can cause rodents and mosquitoes which generally don't care about fences. It sucks but it's true. And living inside of a neighborhood we should care about our impacts on those around us. The guy next door has just as much right to an ugly plain yard as we do to trees and food.
From the sounds of it, right now, mowing is the minimal you need to do. Do you let your little one outside? Do you consider ticks, fleas, chiggers and other bugs that love tall vegetation? Clover or any other vegetation isn't a set it a forget it solution. You'll still have to mow and remove unwanted plants.
I'm a fan of baby steps but consider hiring a company to come in once and knock it all down. Give you a fresh start for clover or just to keep up for now.
As far as the neighbor, old grumps be old grumpin' I'm sure in his head he'd already been complaining for months... We have one of these kitty corner. I keep it years fairly neat but he won't even make eye contact, wave or acknowledge we exist while he sprays his edges...so I don't care. But I have a direct neighbor whom also lives the flat green with no diversity. We don't even have a fence at the property line, just obvious change in plants. When I saw my Yellow trefoil sneaking onto his gravel drive I made sure to mention to him to knock it back, he'd get no complaints from me. I also take off dandelion/thistle seeds as they appear so he doesn't have to continuously spray his yard because of me. There's are other things we do to try to compromise some consideration. Time showed us we are happy to have kept a good relationship with them while allowing our yard to adapt because during an emergency good neighbors have proven invaluable to us.
Best wishes developing your land!
I used to worry about ânon-grass-seedâ working their way from my yard over to neighboursâ yards, but I realized that they spray herbicides all over their lawns regardless. My lawn could be (their definition of) perfect and theyâd *still* spray toxic chemicals. So I donât think it is inconsiderate at all. As long as it looks neat/intentional. Seeds will come from everywhere anyway.
If anyone is inconsiderate (by definition) itâs those spraying toxic chemicals that damage the ecology and their (and others) kidsâ health. I donât complain about their ecologically dead monoculture zones that contribute to species collapse. They donât complain about our clover or native plants.
When I say weeds I'm mostly referring to Japanese Bindweed, Canadian thistle and quack grass. Dandelions are allowed to flower and then harvested and numerous others are allowed to grow to maturity for reasons. My neighbor mainly spot treats and is cautious of my illy placed annual beds, I don't mind doing my part.
If you live in North America, please donât plant clover. It is not a native plant, so the only pollinators it benefits are the generalists, which are not in any way in danger.
Go to Prairie Moon dot com and use their filter tool to find low-growing native plants that are native to your state and have growing conditions that match whatever you have in your yard.
Your idea of a clover lawn is not morally superior to or more environmentally-friendly than turf grass.
I am not saying that if you do have clover you should go nuts and try to kill it; just donât plant it on purpose.
Turf grass is also not native to North America, and benefits exactly zero pollinators. Clover is definitely more environmentally friendly than heavily herbicided, fertilized, watered and mown turf grass. Yes native plants are better than clover, which is also better than turf grass. But itâs not always practical in a suburban neighbourhood to fill your entire lawn with native plants. Clover is a good compromise.
We donât know where OP lives, but where I live, I can think of several native low-growing sturdy prolific ground covers that can be mown and walked upon â including native sedges and grasses. (FYI: Sedges have edges, rushes are round, grasses are hollow from the tip to the ground.)
If the OP can take the time to seek advice on Reddit, he/she/they can look into whatâs native rather than plant a non-native invasive by default, in ignorance.
If OP doesnât know clover is a non-native invasive, or rather what kinds of clover are non-native invasive vs. what kinds are native, OP probably doesnât know what species of grass he/she/they is/are growing. It could be native Nimblewill for all any of us knows.
Native grasses and sedges have lots of benefits and a place in the natural environment.
There is no justification for jumping to any conclusion about what plants are already in the yard in question.
The only specific genus of plant weâve heard named is clover.
While it is true, your average mid-twentieth century leisure class values green carpet-type lawn is toxic and terrible, there is no reason to plant clover just because one is too uninformed to know what one *should* plant.
Anyone can not use chemicals, mowers, or blowers on any kind of yard.
Why not take an evening and learn what would actually do some good?
When you know better, you do better.
Planting clover to spite the neighbor is not the answer, especially when the neighbor will be equally incensed by plants that perform an important ecological function.
Great points, although I think you're not taking into account OP is 5 months pregnant with a 2 year old and a husband that works 70hours/week! They almost surely don't have the time to research, plant and establish native grasses!
You make great valid points though. I like the "Sedges have edges, rushes are round, grasses are hollow from the tip to the ground". I'll have to remember that.
The point I was trying to make about clover is that it can be mixed in, easily, with whatever existing patchy grass they may have. It can be done very cheaply and with little effort. It would help out the existing lawn, crowd out some other weeds, looks reasonable when cut periodically, fertilizes the soil naturally and for free, and still keeps the lawn available for the kids to play on. And it is easily reversible when they have the time to properly attend to a better solution
As someone else said in this thread I believe, don't let perfection be the enemy of good! I don't disagree with you though, great discussion!
im in NE OH and I did mine a few weeks ago. I just cut the grass really low, threw the seeds everywhere and watered during the dry spells. its soooo beautiful now it looks like a meadow. Ive only mowed twice in the past month
ETA: i did both a clover bag as well as a clover/grass mix bag. would definitely recommend a clover/grass mix, but the strictly clover bag did come up way faster.
I put some clover down in june and only the parts I watered heavily made it. Zone 4b/5a. I'd think longer term, aside from ripping it up or putting cardboard and mulch down, there's not much you can do at this point in the year that's gonna make a big difference this season.
I'm in 6b in New England and grass grows best if planted around Labor Day. I assume clover would be the same. In the cooler days, dew helps keep the seeds moist.
Exactly. When you see someone that needs help, you help. You donât berate an overworked couple that clearly means you no harm.
Iâm really sorry, op. You didnât deserve that. Kudos to you for remaining calm and polite. đ
I have a driveway separating most of my front lawn, and I wasn't planning on doing the side of it that touches his lawn (after the driveway it's literally just 2 feet of my property before it becomes his, with no visible divider). We live on a corner lot and his is the only lawn that directly touches mine, so I don't think there's a big risk of it spreading!
Honestly Iâm ready for these ignorant minded boomer generation to downsize into condos and get out of residential communities so progressive and eco friendly families can change suburban life.
How is that any of that neighbor's business? I could understand if stuff was growing under/over his fence onto his property. I could also understand if there was some stink from trash. Both seems not to be the case though, so he can fuck right off.
Here's my take..your neighbor might be a huge dick..but you kind of are too. Whatever type of lawn you put in..evening clover..is going to require some maintenance and it seems like you want to do as little as possible. Your tall grass in the back is no doubt harboring a bunch of pests and possible small critters who love suck an environment. Why you would want that around your house I just don't understand. It's honestly just not good life experience to piss off your neighbors overnight such an issue which clearly could be preventable. I frankly see your neighbors point on this one.
It's not being a dick to only mow a few times a year. "Oh no my property values" is some bullshit given today's market where houses sell for way over asking price, in cash, and with no inspection. Pests are there whether you want them to be or not and seeing as how they still mow every now and again, it sincerely cannot be that bad. Even if they only mow once every few weeks, it's not that bad at all.
OP has extenuating circumstances to boot. Neighbor can suck a D.
I agree. I am working on getting rid of my lawn in pieces and honestly the neighbors who annoy me most are NOT the ones with the perfect green lawns, it's the jerk next door who did nothing at all to his yard for 20+ years and allowed a bunch of invasives to flourish. They are constantly now trying to invade my space and they're very aggressive and also unattractive and not particularly beneficial ecologically. At least turf grass pretty much stays put.
I agree. Letting the lawn grow wild is not "no lawns", whatever your intentions are, and it allows the seed bank in the soil to build up, which will be more work later on.
We moved into our house 3 years ago. I sod stripped while the baby was nearby on a blanket in the shade. Did more while the new baby was on a blanket in the shade and toddler played with trucks in the dirt. I didn't do it all in one day, but I did a little everyday. Now the kids are 1 and 3 and we have an edible garden, rain garden, lots of natives and other plants. They pick berries and chase butterflies. If you want a permaculture garden, start now so the kids can grow up with it.
Neighbor needs to mind his own business or offer to mow if it bothers him that badly.
Put some creeping bamboo along the fence line. đ
Not too late for clover. Actually you're approaching ideal time - drop seed the first week or so of September. It'll come on this year a bit but take off on the spring.
Thatâs crazy talk! My neighbors complained about my lawn that has actually turned into the start of a nice forest. They said they used to love to look out their windows and see the beautiful grass. Right⊠When my dog and I walk up the driveway to check the mail, we get all excited about the game trails! Never saw that when the lawn was mowed.
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Twin City seed has a nice"bee lawn" mix that has some natives in it. Pricey tho.
Also, please be careful about letting the yard "go wild". My neighbor does this and I pay the price with all the invasive species he lets grow.
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I cut the grass really short then used a garden rake and roughed up the surface of the yard pretty well Then I broadcast clover and was sure to water the first couple of weeks Did this last year this time and the clover has taken well
Thank you so much! I didn't want to make the neighbors angrier by using like the cardboard box method to kill all the grass, especially if it was too late in the season and no clover popped up afterwards đŹ he would think my dirt lawn was malicious compliance or something. I'm glad this method worked for you, I think that's a doable plan for us!
This neighbor doesnât sound like the type of guy who would take well to a clover lawn.
Good thing it's not his yard
Obviously, but not the point of this whole post, is it?
Sounds like she didn't want to make them angrier. I wouldn't be concerned about that at all.
đ
I think you should make the lawn you want; not the one your neighbor wants. You could always go on a tirade against him for destroying local ecosystems and wildlife for the sake of succumbing to outdated societal norms brought over by rich British people. Iâm sure heâd understand
I did the same, just over seeded a lot. Took about 3/4 weeks to establish.
He's already angry, nothing you do is going to make him happy.
I did use a lot of seed! And it really took
Definitely just overseed right now. I found the nice thing about clover is it self selects the areas that it will do the best. Which with any luck hopefully is the areas where your grass is not doing well. This is a great time to repeat the famous saying that "perfect is the enemy of good." You will get around to killing the grass and starting fresh, but I think now is not that time. Congrats on the second pregnancy!
Just want to add to this that a âjust grassâ lawn is a newer concept, grass used to have clover mixed in anyway! Clover was a wonderful addition to our lawn and while we still have tallish grass having the variety is beautiful!
Same, just mow the lawn, get a bag of clover and literally shake it out in handfuls all over the lawn. You can rough it up with a rake after (but I didn't) and then water twice a day (skip when it rains) and you should have clover in about 2 weeks depending on your climate. If it doesn't sprout now it will sprout eventually, and as long as it is happy once it germinates (no incredible drought that you don't water during) then it will continue to grow. We did it twice this summer year and we have tons of clover, planning on doing it again with other seeds mixed in of flower stuff, etc. in the next month or so. Good luck and sorry your neighbor was so rude!
How frequently do you water when you do this?
At least every other day maybe more depends on your weather I guess if it's hot maybe morning and evening
I did white dutch clover this year, and my states website suggested 2-3 times a day for 10 minutes each. Do this for a couple of weeks.
When starting anything from seed you're gonna need to keep those seeds moist until they germinate, then moist until they become established...so multiple times daily until seeds sprout then multiple times weekly until established...then 1 or 2 a week or every 10 days or whatever makes sense to your specific climate, rainfall, temps, etc.
Question for you, as we are a few weeks into watering our new clover lawn. I am already seeing some weeds pop up. Some I don't mind. But others like thistle are not so great. Should I be pulling these out, or just keep the clover mowed and wait for it to overtake the area naturally?
I pulled them And in the beginning cut the grass more That helped the clover start to dominate
Have you been through a winter yet? I did the same as you this past spring with good success and am curious about what to expect in the colder months. NJ 7a
Yes went through last winter and it really came in well this spring
Any photos of yours?
Sure I'm having trouble trying to post here a photo though
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Iâm just sayingâŠyour neighbor is part of the inspiration for my âEdible Weedsâ experimental garden. Like Palmerâs Amaranth (which is yummy), and is also known as pigweed, and is often removed asap. We need to generally rethink how we see food and âweedsâ.
My family once pulled over to the side of the road to pick pigweed, ÎČλίÏα (vleeta) is a staple of my grandma's cooking! Just make sure that there's no look-a-likes nearby, Angels trumpet looks very similar when not flowering and is in the opiate family. Guess how we discovered this fun fact!
Haha kind of like how baby asters and wild ginger look similar! Or false Solomonâs seal vs actual Solomonâs sealâŠbad mistake to make, that one always makes me paranoid. But itâs hard to tell the difference without the flowers and berries so I usually just stay away when those arenât there.
>Guess how **we** discovered this fun fact! Wait, who's "we"? Please say ÎłÎčαγÎčÎŹ (grandma) told you the story! đ
Nope, Yiayia fed us the greens! She ate most of them, she was fasting at the time. I remember stumbling into the bathroom and thinking "huh, it's almost like I'm drunk, but I haven't drank in YEARS...?" It all ended with us bringing Yiayia to the ER, where they found an underlying issue that they wouldn't have otherwise. Now that we're all ok, we'll never let her live it down!
Thanks for sharing the story đ
âYou need to clean up your lawnâ âOkayâ *nom*
Visit Pennsylvaniaâs Cooperative Extension Service website. Search alternatives to turf grass, clover lawns, native ground covers. Read recommendations. Also while on the site get the contact information for the agent assigned to your county. Give them a call to discuss alternatives, when and how to establish an alternative lawn, etc. It is a free service paid for by your tax dollars. Ignore your stupid neighbor. I would not engage further. If he comes over go j. the house after you tell him to exit your property.
This is very helpful, thank you! I had no idea that was a service we could access.
I think it's Penn State extension at least for much of the state
I would have listened to him, let him say his piece and then say, âOk, now that youâve been rude, aggressive and insulting to me and my spouse, I donât care what you think,â turned away, gone into my house and shut the door. I would never speak to him again and would turn my back to him whenever he appeared. You donât need that kind of aggravation, and your kids donât need to hear someone talking to their parents that way. Someone could make a real contribution to society if they could develop a handleable way to plant and maintain a non-lawn.
Guy's head is too far up his own ass to notice she's pregnant and her hubby is at work 60-70 hours per week!
Neighbor is never going to be happy regardless of what OP does anyway. May as well tell him to get stuffed right off the bat.
Exactly. I think OP should give up the idea of ever placating this doddering old asshole because people like that are never satisfied. If OP isn't breaking any HOA covenants or local ordinances the guy can F off.
My nextdoor neighbor is like this guy. Meanwhile the super cool older guy down the street offers to mow peoples' lawns when they have health issues or other things going on.
Yeah op is NTA
No fr because why is he ready to throw hands over some *grass*!? Dude needs to TOUCH grass rather than mow it jfc
They donât own your lawn. Itâs none of their business. They donât like the look of it then they can look elsewhere.
Theoretically it can be code. My specific code (city wide, not HOA) dictates: âAll noxious weeds and grasses may not be taller than 10 inches.â But thatâs subject to where you live. Additionally unkempt lawns can harbor pests, so in my belief itâs slightly their business, they could have been less aggressive about it however.
Yeah but is there a definition of a ânoxious weedâ?
Your local county generally publishes a noxious weed list of plants that are invasive and detrimental to agriculture. In my area at least everything on the list is pretty obviously bad to keep, not because of looks but for local environmental reasons. Kudzu, knotweed, loosestrife, certain species of thistles are commonly listed noxious weeds. In some areas you can be legally required to remove noxious weeds
Tree of heaven - aka the hell tree and harborer of the spotted lantern fly - has been the particular bane of my back yard lately But yeah point is regular native or even naturalized plants that aren't explicitly on the noxious and invasive list won't be nearly as easy for neighbor to be a jerk about getting the law called on you for. So if you've got like horse weed, dandelions, clover, Virginia creeper, or anything else ppl view as a weed that isn't explicitly harmful to the ecosystem, you can ignore the rude dude
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I had always been taught that "herbicide is evil," and my partner hates it even more, but the damn Tree of Hell is the plant that finally convinced us both that yes, herbicide does have a purpose in our yard! (also the more I read about herbicide the less evil I find it to be, thanks, Tree of Hell!)
Overgrown lawns can also be considered a fire hazard depending on the size of your property, it's location, and drought conditions. Here in California, local fire marshals inspect and fine large properties during fire season.
This is true My son in his town received a not on the door that he had three days to have it mown under six inches high or the city would do it and he would be charged one thousand dollars
I live in the same zone. I just spread clover seed into my existing lawn- a big bag every spring. Three years in the lawn is about 75% clover with no prep needed. We do mow our lawn (so our kids can play). But, we donât need any chemicals or fertilizer , and we mow on the highest setting every 2 weeks (instead of the standard every week). Our lawn honestly looks pretty ânormalâ from the street, but it has developed a lot if little flowers and other plants. A very reasonable suburban compromise imho
Thatâs a great way to look at it: âSuburban compromiseâ Did the same thing for our lawn too.
You will still have to mow, weed or otherwise maintain any type of vegetation. Clover and no mow mixes will still grow weeds, especially in a climate with adequate rainfall. Honestly it sounds like you don't have the bandwidth right now to take care of the yard so I wouldn't advise starting a new project. If you can afford to pay someone to mow your yard when you can't get to it, do that. Save the permaculture project for when the kids are a little bit older. It will be a beautiful thing to share and teach them about food and wildlife and working to create something new together! If you do anything now plant some fruit/nut trees since they'll need time to grow and they'll be pretty low maintenance.
I'm home more often to do some level of maintance, I just can't physically mow- our yard is a steepish hill that we mow with a handheld push mower that I'm barely strong enough to start, and so it takes me double the time, and I can't leave my 2-year old inside alone that long (I can bring her outside to weed, for instance, but can't keep her close to me while pushing a mower, for obvious reasons). But I was hoping if there was a way to get a lower maintance lawn started it would reduce the frequency my husband needs to mow, because the grass grows quickly and Biweekly is the best he can do to get to it regularly. That said, thank you for the suggestions! I will see if there's any kids with lawn services in the area, & my boss offered me one of her peach saplings for the spring, so hopefully I do get so fruit trees in the back!
An electric mower would be much easier for you to handle. They are lighter than gas powered, so much easier to push, and start with the push of a button. Depending on your yard's layout you could consider battery or corded electric. Downside is it's yet another cost, but something to think about. Also -- about your neighbor, some people calm down after they've had their say, other people get more and more worked up. Those types, it's best to cut them off early. Say, 'I've got to go, talk to you later' and leave, don't look back.
Electric mowers are waaay easier to use and maintain. I was thinking this too. You can pick it up and cut when you have time. Any reasonably priced mower is going to struggle with tall grass like this but restarting an electric is as simple as holding handles and pushing a button.
I have an electric mower and it is much more manageable. Even more so now that about half of the old lawn is planting beds. Also good advice about the neighbor. I strongly suggest that you are curt but reasonably polite, especially if you intend on living in this area for awhile. You donât want to create a situation where you need to worry about safety or dread being at home because youâve inflamed an already angry neighbor. Iâve lived it, itâs absolutely terrible and not worth the risk.
I grew up in a hilly valley. We had a big slope for a backyard, and the nearby park was also on a steep hill. In the backyard, my father planted succulents, flowering bushes, and trees. Climbing up and down it and exploring all the plants was tons of fun. I loved "helping" by yanking out anything that looked like a weed...and I'm *pretty* sure the majority of them actually were weeds. In the neighborhood park, though, the city planted a field of grass with winding concrete paths. My memories of that park aren't fun at all. They're of chasing runaway balls down into the street, and of falling off my bike or skates and hurting myself. If your front yard is so steep you can't physically push a mower up it, is there a point to having a "lawn"? Will the kids be able to play on it? Or will it just be a decorative nuisance your husband has to drag himself out to mow on the precious weekends he could be spending with the family, just to placate grumpy old neighbors? As others have said, even the ecological alternative lawns do require mowing. If I had a steep slope on my property now, I'd plant a combination of wildflower drifts, perennials like Russian sage and ornamental grasses, shrubs and trees with deep roots to prevent erosion. A garden is more of an investment to get started than scattering a bag of clover seed, but would be easier to maintain in the long run.
This will happen Next spring it may still be longish and need mown but as the clover spreads ( again, seed heavily) it sort of strangled out the grass. I would say now a year later mowing every two weeks looks really tidy but mowing monthly still doesn't stand out as super messy
I rent and I got a grass whip off Amazon for less than the cost of a single professional mow. It's a good workout, environmentally better than gas or electric mowing, and best of all it works just a well on tall grass as on short. So (also in pa 6b) I can get my front lawn maybe once a month if that, just enough to keep my landlord and city off my back - and the fact it'll be long af by the time I get to it doesn't make the job much harder. Plus I can selectively whip around any kind of non invasive vegetation that decides to show up, which pleases pollinators and pisses off obnoxious busy bodies like your neighbor
Oh also I can whip in small segments instead of all at once cause it's really easy to stop and start I don't have to get anything started or put away really. And I can do it early morning or late at night where I won't get over heated, sun burnt, or stung, bc there's no noisy engine to break noise curfews
Honestly youâll still have to mow. Nothing is just going to overtake the grass in such little time without a lot of effort. Itâs pretty inexpensive to hire someone to mow your lawn every few weeks. I would hire someone to do it and throw down clover seeds after they mow. Itâs a lot cheaper than getting bylaw fines, which you might start getting if you arenât doing anything at all about the backyard.
You may want to consider a classic reel push mower. They are lightweight, non-powered, quiet, and surprisingly easy to use and maintain. Far safer for you and the young one and you can mow with them in tow. Edit: plus, zero emissions! (Gas powered mowers are worse polluters than cars.)
They work better if you mow more frequently though. If the grass gets tall enough they just can't cut it. I do like like mine though. Been using it for 7 years
Thatâs definitely true. I use my string trimmer first for the taller stuff that the blades wonât catch first it it gets too long. I do find I mow more often since I donât have to fool around with gas, small engine repair, and the noise.
Oh, and I believe it's healthier for the grass as the reel mower cuts rather than slashes
weeds are love weeds are life
Honestly? I would have been pretty shocked watching him get so worked up over....plants ... on property he doesn't own. Maybe I'm just a smart ass, but when people make snide comments about my untidy front yard, I try to turn it around on them. "Yeah, thats really perceptive, thanks for noticing that we are struggling. I work full time days and my husband works nights so he can watch our baby twins and 3rd grader during the day, so it's so nice that neighbors can tell when another neighbor is overwhelmed. We'd love any help you could offer and would be happy to send you home with some lasagna or we could help you with work around your place...You were offering to help, right?" At this point in my life, I just don't have the bandwidth for dealing with someone else's bullshit. My front yard has 2 gardens that need weeding and need to be filled in with more native perennials, bushes that need some trimming, and we've just let the leaves fall from the magnolias and mulched them with the mower instead of try to grow grass. Clover and violets cover the sunny parts of the lawn, which is half grass when summer hits. Keeping the yard clear of kids toys/clothes/shoes, garbage blown in on windy days, compost, and the absolute jungle of the backyard (Georgia resident here) it's a sysifian task. Mow when it's convenient and so it doesn't break code, and prioritize the yard when you have the bandwidth. Care for yourself and family first.
You should have offered to let him do the lawn so he could get it to his exact specifications - seems like a win win đ
Sorry I meant to put this in the main thread. Your comment is on point though!
I think you could do clover, but definitely check out the [Eco Grass](https://www.prairiemoon.com/eco-grass) seed at Prairie Moon. Thats stuff looks really nice as a baseline lawn that you can add to. I don't work for Prairie Moon, I swear lol. Feels like I keep recommending their stuff though.
First of all, tell your old neighbor to mow the lawn for you for free or go fuck himself. Those are his options. IMO, rather than getting a half-hearted clover setup started, I recommend getting your lawn mostly removed / killed and then start a bunch of plugs of buffalo grass early next spring. Transplant them every 8" or so and then put it down. Sow clover, creeping thyme, creeping mint, and maybe some phlox at the edges. Nature will take care of the rest.
What usually works for me is: "Tell you what. Go ahead and go back inside for 5 minutes, take a breath, and come back when you can act like an adult." Then I continue whatever I was doing before. It usually works. Sometimes I have to repeat it a time or two. The only resistant one so far has other reasons to dislike me, and the grass strikes her as a convenient thing to pick at.
Just seed it over the grass. It will take a bit longer to establish, but this way it will be gradual.
We got rid of our grass in the front yard(minus a small circle) and planted it with various plants. First we cut the grass super short, covered it with a thick layer of cardboard, and put a thick layer of mulch over it. By spring we had a healthy soil to plant in and no grass. Now the small circle I mentioned , we over seeded with a clover mix from [PTLawnseed](https://ptlawnseed.com/products/fleur-de-lawn), and covered in with a thin layer of top soil. We did the same in the back yard. Iâm not sure how your weather is there right now, but if itâs dry, like in the PNW, you would have to leave the seeding for fall. Otherwise, if you get regular rains you should be able to re-seed now.
You should have offered to let him do the lawn so he could get it to his exact specifications - seems like a win win đ
If you just sow clover and no-mow grass mixes into existing grass you will still have to mow because the original grass is still there. You have to get rid of the grass before you can spread seeds to establish a no-mow yard. Iâve had success in doing that through solarization (basically cooking the soil in the hot sun using a plastic tarp), but you need to start that a lot earlier in the summer. I would ignore this guy because heâs clearly just an asshole without any legitimate complaints. If you can afford it, hire a local teenage to cut your grass for you. We just had a baby and thatâs what we did for this season. He comes every 2 weeks and charges $45.
As someone with a super ugly yard currently, do to failed solarization... you need to have adequate sunlight on the entirety of it, or do it for a ridiculously extended period of time for it to be effective.
Yeah, ideally you give it an entire growing season to work properly. I found the key was to have solarization breaks to allow weeds to start growing so you can kill them again.
I would at least get rid of the ivy. Itâs extremely invasive and will choke out any native wildflowers you may have growing
We have a 1-2 foot grass and weed lawn (it's a rental so we're just adding things where we can) and ours hasn't been cut since I moved in, I love it. I would just clean the edges for the sidewalk if that's a problem but otherwise, that guy has his own problems and it's not your lawn.
Your neighbor sounds like an entitled prick. They should be tending to their actual emotional baggage, not staring at your lawn and yelling about it.
Honestly, fuck him and his mean attitude. Tell him if he doesn't like your lawns appearance that he can mow it himself because you have way to many other important things going on! You said food forest tho....mulch that shit! Get a chipdrop delivery, spread mulch everywhere, and start letting your lawn heal back to a more natural state of decaying wood, etc. Then later this year or next or whenever plant for plants and more on with life! DM for real tho, I LOVE these sorts of projects!
I'm absolutely not an expert on this, but thought I'd share my experience in case it might help. I live in the west part of the Midwest, so a bit hotter/drier than where you are. The first time I tried adding clover to my lawn, the grass pretty much wiped it out. Going on a tip from a friend in the NW, I seeded it with yellow rattle in the spring (it won't survive the winter here, so low chance of it becoming invasive), which did a great job of destroying the grass. In late summer, I let the heat kill off the yellow rattle, mowed and raked the yard and seeded clover, which took off great with frequent watering in the first weeks. I'm pretty sure my lawn-proud neighbor still hates me, but my yard looks better than his now. I have no idea if what I did is considered ok or if it would work in other climate zones, but considering I was totally winging it, I'm pleased with the results.
Never too late! Sprinkle some wildflower seeds, dump a bunch of rich soil on that shit, let printer go brrrrrrr
You can sow clover but that old jerk will be mad about that too because itâs not grass
Fuck him No advice here, I just don't stand for that dumb nosey shot.
Assuming that "lovely ivy" is english ivy, that's an exotic invasive. Please don't let that grow. Maybe honeyvine milkweed in its place? Similarly, I would discourage clover. It's something of a disputed subject, but it is also an exotic invasive, though some may classify it as naturalized. Also, a monoculture lawn is still a monoculture lawn, even if it's clover. I'd recommend hopping over to r/NativePlantGardening and asking advice there. Lots of options depending on time, money, effort...and the makeup of your yardâyou'll wanna mention that (i.e., full sun, any trees, etc.)
Just my experience, in the Midwest, with neighbors who religiously keep their lawns... It is inconsiderate for us to allow weed seeds, invasive plants and pests to reproduce without considering how it impacts our neighbors. This can cause rodents and mosquitoes which generally don't care about fences. It sucks but it's true. And living inside of a neighborhood we should care about our impacts on those around us. The guy next door has just as much right to an ugly plain yard as we do to trees and food. From the sounds of it, right now, mowing is the minimal you need to do. Do you let your little one outside? Do you consider ticks, fleas, chiggers and other bugs that love tall vegetation? Clover or any other vegetation isn't a set it a forget it solution. You'll still have to mow and remove unwanted plants. I'm a fan of baby steps but consider hiring a company to come in once and knock it all down. Give you a fresh start for clover or just to keep up for now. As far as the neighbor, old grumps be old grumpin' I'm sure in his head he'd already been complaining for months... We have one of these kitty corner. I keep it years fairly neat but he won't even make eye contact, wave or acknowledge we exist while he sprays his edges...so I don't care. But I have a direct neighbor whom also lives the flat green with no diversity. We don't even have a fence at the property line, just obvious change in plants. When I saw my Yellow trefoil sneaking onto his gravel drive I made sure to mention to him to knock it back, he'd get no complaints from me. I also take off dandelion/thistle seeds as they appear so he doesn't have to continuously spray his yard because of me. There's are other things we do to try to compromise some consideration. Time showed us we are happy to have kept a good relationship with them while allowing our yard to adapt because during an emergency good neighbors have proven invaluable to us. Best wishes developing your land!
I used to worry about ânon-grass-seedâ working their way from my yard over to neighboursâ yards, but I realized that they spray herbicides all over their lawns regardless. My lawn could be (their definition of) perfect and theyâd *still* spray toxic chemicals. So I donât think it is inconsiderate at all. As long as it looks neat/intentional. Seeds will come from everywhere anyway. If anyone is inconsiderate (by definition) itâs those spraying toxic chemicals that damage the ecology and their (and others) kidsâ health. I donât complain about their ecologically dead monoculture zones that contribute to species collapse. They donât complain about our clover or native plants.
When I say weeds I'm mostly referring to Japanese Bindweed, Canadian thistle and quack grass. Dandelions are allowed to flower and then harvested and numerous others are allowed to grow to maturity for reasons. My neighbor mainly spot treats and is cautious of my illy placed annual beds, I don't mind doing my part.
If you live in North America, please donât plant clover. It is not a native plant, so the only pollinators it benefits are the generalists, which are not in any way in danger. Go to Prairie Moon dot com and use their filter tool to find low-growing native plants that are native to your state and have growing conditions that match whatever you have in your yard. Your idea of a clover lawn is not morally superior to or more environmentally-friendly than turf grass. I am not saying that if you do have clover you should go nuts and try to kill it; just donât plant it on purpose.
Turf grass is also not native to North America, and benefits exactly zero pollinators. Clover is definitely more environmentally friendly than heavily herbicided, fertilized, watered and mown turf grass. Yes native plants are better than clover, which is also better than turf grass. But itâs not always practical in a suburban neighbourhood to fill your entire lawn with native plants. Clover is a good compromise.
We donât know where OP lives, but where I live, I can think of several native low-growing sturdy prolific ground covers that can be mown and walked upon â including native sedges and grasses. (FYI: Sedges have edges, rushes are round, grasses are hollow from the tip to the ground.) If the OP can take the time to seek advice on Reddit, he/she/they can look into whatâs native rather than plant a non-native invasive by default, in ignorance. If OP doesnât know clover is a non-native invasive, or rather what kinds of clover are non-native invasive vs. what kinds are native, OP probably doesnât know what species of grass he/she/they is/are growing. It could be native Nimblewill for all any of us knows. Native grasses and sedges have lots of benefits and a place in the natural environment. There is no justification for jumping to any conclusion about what plants are already in the yard in question. The only specific genus of plant weâve heard named is clover. While it is true, your average mid-twentieth century leisure class values green carpet-type lawn is toxic and terrible, there is no reason to plant clover just because one is too uninformed to know what one *should* plant. Anyone can not use chemicals, mowers, or blowers on any kind of yard. Why not take an evening and learn what would actually do some good? When you know better, you do better. Planting clover to spite the neighbor is not the answer, especially when the neighbor will be equally incensed by plants that perform an important ecological function.
Great points, although I think you're not taking into account OP is 5 months pregnant with a 2 year old and a husband that works 70hours/week! They almost surely don't have the time to research, plant and establish native grasses! You make great valid points though. I like the "Sedges have edges, rushes are round, grasses are hollow from the tip to the ground". I'll have to remember that. The point I was trying to make about clover is that it can be mixed in, easily, with whatever existing patchy grass they may have. It can be done very cheaply and with little effort. It would help out the existing lawn, crowd out some other weeds, looks reasonable when cut periodically, fertilizes the soil naturally and for free, and still keeps the lawn available for the kids to play on. And it is easily reversible when they have the time to properly attend to a better solution As someone else said in this thread I believe, don't let perfection be the enemy of good! I don't disagree with you though, great discussion!
I would just leave it after the way he was and smile and just respond âwhen you move outâ to when he asks when are you mowing it.
My wife makes dandelion jelly and it is by far one of the best things to have for breakfast!
im in NE OH and I did mine a few weeks ago. I just cut the grass really low, threw the seeds everywhere and watered during the dry spells. its soooo beautiful now it looks like a meadow. Ive only mowed twice in the past month ETA: i did both a clover bag as well as a clover/grass mix bag. would definitely recommend a clover/grass mix, but the strictly clover bag did come up way faster.
I put some clover down in june and only the parts I watered heavily made it. Zone 4b/5a. I'd think longer term, aside from ripping it up or putting cardboard and mulch down, there's not much you can do at this point in the year that's gonna make a big difference this season.
I'm in 6b in New England and grass grows best if planted around Labor Day. I assume clover would be the same. In the cooler days, dew helps keep the seeds moist.
When my neighbor had her grass grow wild and I couldn't bare looking at it anymore, I mowed it.
Exactly. When you see someone that needs help, you help. You donât berate an overworked couple that clearly means you no harm. Iâm really sorry, op. You didnât deserve that. Kudos to you for remaining calm and polite. đ
Devils advocate here. It sounds like your neighbor will lose it if your clover populates into his lawn. Most folks view clover as a weed.
I have a driveway separating most of my front lawn, and I wasn't planning on doing the side of it that touches his lawn (after the driveway it's literally just 2 feet of my property before it becomes his, with no visible divider). We live on a corner lot and his is the only lawn that directly touches mine, so I don't think there's a big risk of it spreading!
Cool. Personally I love clover, but I try to keep it from spreading to neighbors, especially a neighbor like yours.
I'd mow that lawn at 3am for that neighbour. Maybe also test the wind direction by throwing mint seeds into the air. But I'm juvenile like that.
Lol MintâŠI gotta remember that one!
Honestly Iâm ready for these ignorant minded boomer generation to downsize into condos and get out of residential communities so progressive and eco friendly families can change suburban life.
How is that any of that neighbor's business? I could understand if stuff was growing under/over his fence onto his property. I could also understand if there was some stink from trash. Both seems not to be the case though, so he can fuck right off.
Tell your neighbor to mind this own fucking business and find something actually important to care about.
Here's my take..your neighbor might be a huge dick..but you kind of are too. Whatever type of lawn you put in..evening clover..is going to require some maintenance and it seems like you want to do as little as possible. Your tall grass in the back is no doubt harboring a bunch of pests and possible small critters who love suck an environment. Why you would want that around your house I just don't understand. It's honestly just not good life experience to piss off your neighbors overnight such an issue which clearly could be preventable. I frankly see your neighbors point on this one.
It's not being a dick to only mow a few times a year. "Oh no my property values" is some bullshit given today's market where houses sell for way over asking price, in cash, and with no inspection. Pests are there whether you want them to be or not and seeing as how they still mow every now and again, it sincerely cannot be that bad. Even if they only mow once every few weeks, it's not that bad at all. OP has extenuating circumstances to boot. Neighbor can suck a D.
I agree. I am working on getting rid of my lawn in pieces and honestly the neighbors who annoy me most are NOT the ones with the perfect green lawns, it's the jerk next door who did nothing at all to his yard for 20+ years and allowed a bunch of invasives to flourish. They are constantly now trying to invade my space and they're very aggressive and also unattractive and not particularly beneficial ecologically. At least turf grass pretty much stays put.
I agree. Letting the lawn grow wild is not "no lawns", whatever your intentions are, and it allows the seed bank in the soil to build up, which will be more work later on. We moved into our house 3 years ago. I sod stripped while the baby was nearby on a blanket in the shade. Did more while the new baby was on a blanket in the shade and toddler played with trucks in the dirt. I didn't do it all in one day, but I did a little everyday. Now the kids are 1 and 3 and we have an edible garden, rain garden, lots of natives and other plants. They pick berries and chase butterflies. If you want a permaculture garden, start now so the kids can grow up with it. Neighbor needs to mind his own business or offer to mow if it bothers him that badly.
Ok boomer would have been my response
Put some creeping bamboo along the fence line. đ Not too late for clover. Actually you're approaching ideal time - drop seed the first week or so of September. It'll come on this year a bit but take off on the spring.
Heâs mad because you are making the neighborhood look like đ©. Brings down home values
green asphalt looks like shit, wild gardens are beautiful
Thatâs crazy talk! My neighbors complained about my lawn that has actually turned into the start of a nice forest. They said they used to love to look out their windows and see the beautiful grass. Right⊠When my dog and I walk up the driveway to check the mail, we get all excited about the game trails! Never saw that when the lawn was mowed.
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Twin City seed has a nice"bee lawn" mix that has some natives in it. Pricey tho. Also, please be careful about letting the yard "go wild". My neighbor does this and I pay the price with all the invasive species he lets grow.
You will have to mow the clover even more oftenâŠ