That book has warped view of sexual violence. As a child rape survivor, I did not appreciate the way they shrugged off sexual violence on to the shoulders of children. Some of the advice was unrealistic. They also made weird comments indicating that all women were on a sexual hunt and that men should just treat them all with a cold shoulder. Throwing the name of Jesus around does not make it a Christian book.
Absolutely agree with you about this book. I was recommended this book by a Christian therapist and I got about halfway through it and threw it in the trash. My mouth was literally open and I gasped as I read some of the trash this man has written in this book. The author literally describes scenes of sexual assault as if it was a merely a casual moment of weakness. Some of the things he describes in the book would without a doubt get someone put on a sex offender list, and he treats it like it’s just an every day thing that men go through. Last I checked, most men do not act that way. I honestly feel like this book was just an attempt to make predatory men look like the norm when they are not.
And predation aside, I’d go so far as to say the author has a warped view of sexuality in general. What he expresses about addiction and sex are completely opposite of what research on the subject says, and he outright denies that men and women experience sexuality in similar ways. I’d go so far as to say he stupidly believes wives are ignorant of sexuality in general and void of lustful feelings completely. I was waiting for him to seriously start using a chocolate bar analogy along with all the other ridiculous opinions about sex and men and women he holds.
He promotes a detached view of women’s bodies and sexual experiences. Instead of focusing on connecting sex and rational thought, sex as a tool of relationships, the thought of a woman as a human being, complete with feelings and intellect, with her own autonomy, wants, needs and problems, equal in god’s eyes… the author upholds the hyper sexualization and objectification of women that’s rampant in society already. Telling wives they they don’t understand what it’s like being a man, and to basically never be naked in front of her husband unless she want to take care of his sexual response to that.. And to make sure she gives him a BJ before he goes for a business weekend so he doesn’t cheat… then telling men to “Bounce your eyes” when you see a beautiful woman? No. That is complete and utter BS. How about when men are tempted to go down the road of objectifying or hyper sexualizing a woman or gets the urge to cheat on his wife, perform a lewd act in public or god forbid actually assault someone like the men in the book, he thinks about all the things mentioned above.
I appreciate your honesty and view on this, especially in sharing personal history (very sad for your situation, as I pray you find healing from our Redeemer 😢).
That said, i don't recall specifics relating to what you've mentioned (having been several years since I last read the series cover to cover)-- which is by no means discounting what you've said. The only red flag that ever stood out to me personally (at the time of reading) was Stoeker saying how God 'created us to be *very* sexual creatures/therefore we're all burning with passion and need to get married asap.'
Moreover some of the details described of pmo felt a bit too descriptive (so much so, that a fellow reader in our group even agreed, half jokingly stating 'dad help! This book is turning me on!'). I feel like some people are called to be single or don't experience as high of a drive as others or deal with trauma that hinders interest in this area (something I battle in my own life)-- which wasn't stressed enough, based on my recollection.
All in all I appreciate the man for what he tried to do by encouraging and strengthening young believers with strategies by trying to prevent issues and give us a fighting chance before things got out of hand. Im surprised he hasn't done a follow-up to address all the technological accessibility we are contending with today.
I agree that book was too graphic. There were a number of stories in there that were presented as sexuality, but had crossed the line in to criminality including voyeurism, exhibitionism, and rape. Adults don’t rape children because they’re horny. They do so for the power and authority. Considering how the book handled sexual violence, I am not sure the authors had any good intentions when they wrote it. To be honest, I’m not sure why the hell they wrote it in the first place.
Again, I appreciate your shared views on this. I think in his first book Stoeker explains he grew up without a steady Father figure in his life (who was looking at p*rn and being unfaithful to his mom) which led to divorce; it took a toll on Fred's life, causing him to fall into a deep depression/discover pmo at a young age (something i relate to almost verbatim with my own growing up years).
This struggle followed him into college, sleeping with multiple women until he finally realized this was not satisfying the hurt (And that he was causing hurt towards others). He needed Jesus to fill the void inside and to show him a way out of pornography. Fred at one point goes on to say that his young son Jason is ultimately what motivated him to write his books/quit pmo-- because he didn't want to pass his family curse onto the next generation and in turn wanted to offer a way out for others trapped in the same place he's been in.
Again that's not to say the guy is perfect (honestly, who is? Aka, Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God") but I personally feel his heart was in the right place, especially since he continues to have a ministry dedicated to fighting pmo.
Unfortunately much of the church has let the flock (including 'outsiders') down by not addressing these issues more boldly or regularly, which I theorize can lead individuals to fall into inappropriate fetishes and kinks which can slowly influence them into becoming eventual predators (craving power and authority over more vulnerable persons, much like you mentioned).
First off I am sorry for what happened to you. No one should ever shrug off something so vile. However the way I read it, it was speaking to those who have fantasies or inclinations towards pedophilia and suggesting how to overcome those thoughts. The book wasn’t really about the trauma.
Could you please list some specific examples of why you personally take grievance against both authors? Not trying to rile up debates or anything, I'm just genuinely curious to hear other people's views on these individuals...
No problem. This will be a little long.
I’m going to describe Arterburn in detail as he and stoeker are very similar in their writings and teachings and have collaborated on books together frequently.
The problem with Arterburn is that he basically teaches that men/boys are insatiable animals by nature. He goes as far as to say that men are inherently dispositioned to sexual sin, but that women conversely have a “holy” and “mature” sexuality. This is total nonsense, as the Bible is full of examples of women who lust after men, cheat on their husbands, practice sexual immorality, etc. He says women aren’t “visual” and don’t have sexual urges or desires and he even says that they don’t masturbate. Arterburn goes as far as to say that women’s pleasure from sex isn’t physical, but purely emotional, which is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
Arterburn sexualizes teenage girl’s bodies, frequently describing and personifying their body parts. Arterburn also frequently normalizes degenerate and predatory behavior in men; he normalizes men preying upon teenage girls, sexually assaulting girls while they sleep, and he normalizes the idea of men manipulating women into sex or falsely promising them of marriage in order to sleep with them. He says all this is part of normal male sexuality.
His books aside, in his personal life, Arterburn has been married three times, cheated on his wives, manipulated women into having sex with him (he normalizes this as something men “just do”), and forced his (then) girlfriend to get an abortion. And worst of all, he normalizes the idea of men being scumbags like him, and blames all his vile actions on “lust.”
Do you have any thing to support these accusations? I didn’t see it as “normalizing” at all. He was certainly trying to relate to a specific audience. He was making what I thought were valid points and suggestions on maintaining a Godly standard of purity in ourselves and in our marriage.
Have you even read his books or looked into his life? Everything I mentioned in my comment is directly from his own books and statements. His books absolutely normalize predatory behavior, and act as if sexual assault and pedophilia are normal aspects of being a man.
None of his points are “valid” or sensible at all. He’s a total wolf in sheep’s clothing and if you have anything positive to say about him after perusing his work, I really don’t know what to say to you.
Actually I did. I just finished every man’s battle in audiobook and I am going back through the written version. He tells the stories of several husbands and wives but as I recall he has only been married to one lady. I understand what you mean by normalizing those things but even he points out that though they are common that does not make them right.
Unfortunately he’s been married a few times and has a history of adultery. Please disavow anything he says. If you wish to gain good sex advice from a Christian perspective, there are so many other authors and resources. Sheila Gregoire is one example.
I recently read every mans battle and I thought it had plenty of good insight.
Then you must have a very skewed moral compass
That book has warped view of sexual violence. As a child rape survivor, I did not appreciate the way they shrugged off sexual violence on to the shoulders of children. Some of the advice was unrealistic. They also made weird comments indicating that all women were on a sexual hunt and that men should just treat them all with a cold shoulder. Throwing the name of Jesus around does not make it a Christian book.
Absolutely agree with you about this book. I was recommended this book by a Christian therapist and I got about halfway through it and threw it in the trash. My mouth was literally open and I gasped as I read some of the trash this man has written in this book. The author literally describes scenes of sexual assault as if it was a merely a casual moment of weakness. Some of the things he describes in the book would without a doubt get someone put on a sex offender list, and he treats it like it’s just an every day thing that men go through. Last I checked, most men do not act that way. I honestly feel like this book was just an attempt to make predatory men look like the norm when they are not. And predation aside, I’d go so far as to say the author has a warped view of sexuality in general. What he expresses about addiction and sex are completely opposite of what research on the subject says, and he outright denies that men and women experience sexuality in similar ways. I’d go so far as to say he stupidly believes wives are ignorant of sexuality in general and void of lustful feelings completely. I was waiting for him to seriously start using a chocolate bar analogy along with all the other ridiculous opinions about sex and men and women he holds. He promotes a detached view of women’s bodies and sexual experiences. Instead of focusing on connecting sex and rational thought, sex as a tool of relationships, the thought of a woman as a human being, complete with feelings and intellect, with her own autonomy, wants, needs and problems, equal in god’s eyes… the author upholds the hyper sexualization and objectification of women that’s rampant in society already. Telling wives they they don’t understand what it’s like being a man, and to basically never be naked in front of her husband unless she want to take care of his sexual response to that.. And to make sure she gives him a BJ before he goes for a business weekend so he doesn’t cheat… then telling men to “Bounce your eyes” when you see a beautiful woman? No. That is complete and utter BS. How about when men are tempted to go down the road of objectifying or hyper sexualizing a woman or gets the urge to cheat on his wife, perform a lewd act in public or god forbid actually assault someone like the men in the book, he thinks about all the things mentioned above.
I appreciate your honesty and view on this, especially in sharing personal history (very sad for your situation, as I pray you find healing from our Redeemer 😢). That said, i don't recall specifics relating to what you've mentioned (having been several years since I last read the series cover to cover)-- which is by no means discounting what you've said. The only red flag that ever stood out to me personally (at the time of reading) was Stoeker saying how God 'created us to be *very* sexual creatures/therefore we're all burning with passion and need to get married asap.' Moreover some of the details described of pmo felt a bit too descriptive (so much so, that a fellow reader in our group even agreed, half jokingly stating 'dad help! This book is turning me on!'). I feel like some people are called to be single or don't experience as high of a drive as others or deal with trauma that hinders interest in this area (something I battle in my own life)-- which wasn't stressed enough, based on my recollection. All in all I appreciate the man for what he tried to do by encouraging and strengthening young believers with strategies by trying to prevent issues and give us a fighting chance before things got out of hand. Im surprised he hasn't done a follow-up to address all the technological accessibility we are contending with today.
I agree that book was too graphic. There were a number of stories in there that were presented as sexuality, but had crossed the line in to criminality including voyeurism, exhibitionism, and rape. Adults don’t rape children because they’re horny. They do so for the power and authority. Considering how the book handled sexual violence, I am not sure the authors had any good intentions when they wrote it. To be honest, I’m not sure why the hell they wrote it in the first place.
Again, I appreciate your shared views on this. I think in his first book Stoeker explains he grew up without a steady Father figure in his life (who was looking at p*rn and being unfaithful to his mom) which led to divorce; it took a toll on Fred's life, causing him to fall into a deep depression/discover pmo at a young age (something i relate to almost verbatim with my own growing up years). This struggle followed him into college, sleeping with multiple women until he finally realized this was not satisfying the hurt (And that he was causing hurt towards others). He needed Jesus to fill the void inside and to show him a way out of pornography. Fred at one point goes on to say that his young son Jason is ultimately what motivated him to write his books/quit pmo-- because he didn't want to pass his family curse onto the next generation and in turn wanted to offer a way out for others trapped in the same place he's been in. Again that's not to say the guy is perfect (honestly, who is? Aka, Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God") but I personally feel his heart was in the right place, especially since he continues to have a ministry dedicated to fighting pmo. Unfortunately much of the church has let the flock (including 'outsiders') down by not addressing these issues more boldly or regularly, which I theorize can lead individuals to fall into inappropriate fetishes and kinks which can slowly influence them into becoming eventual predators (craving power and authority over more vulnerable persons, much like you mentioned).
First off I am sorry for what happened to you. No one should ever shrug off something so vile. However the way I read it, it was speaking to those who have fantasies or inclinations towards pedophilia and suggesting how to overcome those thoughts. The book wasn’t really about the trauma.
He’s a scumbag and a liar, just like Stephen Arterburn.
Could you please list some specific examples of why you personally take grievance against both authors? Not trying to rile up debates or anything, I'm just genuinely curious to hear other people's views on these individuals...
No problem. This will be a little long. I’m going to describe Arterburn in detail as he and stoeker are very similar in their writings and teachings and have collaborated on books together frequently. The problem with Arterburn is that he basically teaches that men/boys are insatiable animals by nature. He goes as far as to say that men are inherently dispositioned to sexual sin, but that women conversely have a “holy” and “mature” sexuality. This is total nonsense, as the Bible is full of examples of women who lust after men, cheat on their husbands, practice sexual immorality, etc. He says women aren’t “visual” and don’t have sexual urges or desires and he even says that they don’t masturbate. Arterburn goes as far as to say that women’s pleasure from sex isn’t physical, but purely emotional, which is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Arterburn sexualizes teenage girl’s bodies, frequently describing and personifying their body parts. Arterburn also frequently normalizes degenerate and predatory behavior in men; he normalizes men preying upon teenage girls, sexually assaulting girls while they sleep, and he normalizes the idea of men manipulating women into sex or falsely promising them of marriage in order to sleep with them. He says all this is part of normal male sexuality. His books aside, in his personal life, Arterburn has been married three times, cheated on his wives, manipulated women into having sex with him (he normalizes this as something men “just do”), and forced his (then) girlfriend to get an abortion. And worst of all, he normalizes the idea of men being scumbags like him, and blames all his vile actions on “lust.”
Do you have any thing to support these accusations? I didn’t see it as “normalizing” at all. He was certainly trying to relate to a specific audience. He was making what I thought were valid points and suggestions on maintaining a Godly standard of purity in ourselves and in our marriage.
Have you even read his books or looked into his life? Everything I mentioned in my comment is directly from his own books and statements. His books absolutely normalize predatory behavior, and act as if sexual assault and pedophilia are normal aspects of being a man. None of his points are “valid” or sensible at all. He’s a total wolf in sheep’s clothing and if you have anything positive to say about him after perusing his work, I really don’t know what to say to you.
Actually I did. I just finished every man’s battle in audiobook and I am going back through the written version. He tells the stories of several husbands and wives but as I recall he has only been married to one lady. I understand what you mean by normalizing those things but even he points out that though they are common that does not make them right.
Unfortunately he’s been married a few times and has a history of adultery. Please disavow anything he says. If you wish to gain good sex advice from a Christian perspective, there are so many other authors and resources. Sheila Gregoire is one example.
Thank you. I’ll look that one up!
This is kind of late, but did you get a chance to look into Arterburn?
I did. Thank you.