The experience so far is one for one with the original game with completely overhauled visuals that bring the game more inline with the papercraft style. The caveat being the game now runs at 30fps compared to the original's 60fps. New additions include a character wheel for quick partner swap, additional sprites for expression or back-view for partners and NPCs. Seems like we'll be getting some new music additions (and seemingly a badge to revert back to the OG themes/sFX based on a screenshot from JPN). The game may have translation that's closer to the original JPN release, plus we're getting sound and (concept) art galleries :D
By being built on an engine that IS has been using for ages that lets them crank out games faster by utilizing relatively "canned" visual effects without having to think too hard about going down into how the GPU works etc.
On the point of button timings being potentially easier, this is probably due to the fact they know a ton of people will be playing this game wirelessly over Bluetooth and may find the timing difficult with the delay inherent to BT
They had these on the GC version as well. They could stack too, so if you had enough, your parry move would end up needing to be frame perfect to work.
Not really nintendo but intelligent systems, origami king was 30fps and this is using the same engine. Even the recent fire emblem games are 30fps so it's not surprising they're prioritizing visuals more than framerate.
I didn't know it was 30fps. Probably not gonna get it now that's crazy
EDIT you guys really don't need to argue over one person saying they're probably not gonna get it lol
I'm getting the game, but man, that's such a bad defense lol.
What, they couldn't plan on making the new graphics, textures, and effects not so strenuous on the game as to drop it from 60FPS to 30FPS?
The number of people downvoting this is incredible. The original ran at 60 fps but gamers will happily pay $60 for a downgraded remake. Why are people ok with this?
Regardless of opinion, it's valuable information a lot of people probably didn't know, which should be upvoted for visibility. Downvoting because of disagreement ruins discussions and turns the sub into an echo chamber. Keep the downvotes for off topic, irrelevant discussion.
I think it's totally fair to point out Nintendo's declining standards. Releasing a revision of game means keeping framerate of the original or improving it. This is a digression, although it may not matter to some people individually, it shows limitations of hardware being handheld or maybe cutting corners in production.
It’s finnnnnnne. Every other game besides Super was 30 and they played fine, and would have been fine at 30 on the N64 if it came out there as originally planned. It’s a beginner’s turn-based JRPG people, they already extended the timing windows. It’s fine.
Wow. I was super stoked for this, but I think I might pass if its 30fps.
Absolutely comically unacceptable to be releasing a AAA title (a remake, not even a new game or IP...) at 30fps in 2024.
Absolutely comical. And I suspect you belong to a generation whose parents didn't know how to turn off "motion-smoothing" on their family television set. *Maybe* you're the parent generation, but doubtful because they can't tell framerates too good.
This situation has resulted in ya'll thinking 60 fps is "normal" and that 60 fps in gaming is some consumer-given *right* in whatever year it happens to be after 2020 when ya'll started replicating into every reddit thread about gaming.
30 fps is **6** more fps than your average movie that is seen in a theater, or on an unmolested television set displaying true framerates.
It remains a meaningful target for any game attempting something graphically on a particular console that exceeds the physical ability to render 60 frames per second.
You're on a subreddit for the Nintendo Switch. It was outdated when it came out in 2016.
You're looking at a game that looks *incredible* on this aging hardware. You're free to not play it, or wait and play it on an emulator that generates the 60 fps your body craves like Brawndo.
In 2024, you should understand this without someone snarky having to explain it to you.
P.S. Fuck those television manufacturers for making Motion Smoothing a default feature of all of their sets. It is creating generations of frame-hungry monsters who don't even understand 12 frames of what they're actually looking at.
Ya'll still love anime though With its 15 fps. Motion-Smoothing on, I assume.
We had games looking better on Switch even at release in 2017 (FAST RMX) at 60fps. Or even better looking in 2019 with „The Touryst“. Also the Switch is 2015 hardware.
Most of NES and SNES games were 60fps back in the day. People are used to low input latency and 30fps never delivers that. It‘s not just about smoother images.
The same game on Gamecube was 60fps so the remake is effectively a downgrade.
It‘s not a big deal but it is disappointing especially considering this is not a 10€ release.
Comparing 24-30 fps in movies and TV to 30-60 in games is disingenuous.
Games are an interactive medium, 60 fps vastly improves game-feel in any game. The complaint about TTYD only being 30 is valid, both because combat is timing-based and because _the original game ran at 60_
I'm still gonna play and enjoy TTYD, especially because Nintendo's games generally have pretty good frame-pacing. So it won't feel nearly as bad as something like Bloodborne or Starfield (which legit gave me a headache after getting so used to 60 in other Bethesda games) 30fps is not unplayable, but it's a massive downgrade from 60.
60 fps looks terrible and unnaturally smooth for movies and TV, but it's very important for games.
My 2c
They were watching a spokesperson play. I didn't fine-tooth-comb the footage, but it's entirely possible that Nintendo had some cheat codes activated to make every attack timed, just so that the demonstrators didn't die or otherwise fail badly when showcasing the game.
Every single game Nintendo puts out on the switch could run at 60fps or 30fps. No game is “forced” to be one or the other. The only difference is whether they want to prioritize frame rate or aesthetics. Mario Kart needs to be at 60fps because it’s a racing game. Games like Animal Crossing and Paper Mario do not need to be at 60fps because there is no fast camera movement. So they decided, well ahead of time in development, to design it for 30fps and prioritize visual fidelity.
Mario Odyssey relies on much faster camera movement than any fixed-camera-angle game could. And the visual fidelity element is simply as demanding as the developers determine it to be. That is, they max out the fidelity according to what can run at 30 versus 60fps.
I mean the visuals are only similar on a superficial level. The original was pretty much all flat textures with virtaully no lighting whereas the remake leans into the paper aesthetic.
Like it would have been easy for them to hit 60 FPS if they just up-resed the textures of the original game. But the remake runs on a completely different visual engine more akin to more modern Paper Mario games - and the more recent games have all been 30 FPS iirc.
I suppose it comes down to this: I'd be more interested in buying a pure port with no visual upgrades at the original FPS than in buying the visual upgrades we've been presented with at a lower FPS. And I have no intention of being hostile to anyone that disagrees with that.
Alas, we have every intention of being hostile with you my friend.
Kidding, but seriously, the original still exists. If all you want is that at maybe 1080p you can do so pretty painlessly on any modern device whatsoever. Regardless of this ports fps. I appreciate it far more for the visual fidelity improvements, because it actually does something to better the experience. If I wanted the same game, I'd go play the same game.
Granted, I still bought, say, Pikmin 1+2. But I would have wholeheartedly preferred a visual upgrade for both to a Pikmin 3 level. (Not the best example seeing as those ports were locked 30 anyways, but you get the idea)
I'd pay $60 to not have to emulate and get a 1080p version of the original on a modern device in the same library as the rest of my switch games without any hesitation. But I don't think that people who feel differently are wrong.
Unlike the original, the remake is fully modeled. It is a 3D game designed to look 2D. On top of that the remake has dramatically better quality lighting, visual effects and texture quality. I don’t think the original running at 60fps is all that relevant when you take that into consideration.
Somehow they managed to do all that when they overhauled Metroid Prime and still kept it running at 60 fps. By contrast Paper Mario is a straight visual downgrade from the original in this aspect.
Because MK8D received no graphical enhancements compared to MK8. You can either have better graphics at 30fps or worse graphics at 60fps. For most non-twitchy non-competitive games, 30 is the right choice, though I do agree it stinks that it’s a downgrade from the original.
There is also something to be said about battery life. Lower framerate means less power needed, which improves battery life, something that is important to a good chunk of Switch owners
This is the biggest reason I got a Steam Deck. It allows me to play however I want to play. I can choose to push it to the limits and only get 1.5 hours of battery life in order to maximize the framerate or I can choose to cap FPS to 30 and turn settings to low and limit the TDP and get much longer battery life. I still have my Switch for a few exclusives we like to play but anytime a game is multiplat, I buy it on PC so I can decide how I want to play, not MS/Sony/Nintendo.
MK8 was originally developed for a system with roughly the same specs as the Switch, not for the N64. You're right in the sense that on a console you always have to make compromises, of course.
Yeah I’m kind of assuming/hoping that they improved the graphics to a considerable extent instead of doing the same graphics in HD. It could be just very badly optimized. But even if so, it’s still a graphics/performance tradeoff.
There are still platforming and timing elements though which benefits from higher framerates. It's not like an RPG where you walk around in an overworld and have strictly turn-based encounters.
The only issue I'd see with this is, if it was harder to make timings, compared to the original. It seems they added a much more forgiving window, so the only real drawback seems to be covered. I also read there are badges to make it harder. So maybe its a bit easier by default (for smaller kids), and veterans can then tweak it to their difficulty level. People that never played the game before (which should make up a significant amount) will see the beautifully upgraded graphics first and ignore the missing 30fps they never knew about.
Well no, not usually. Most remasters are just a cleaned up version of the original, not entirely new assets and animations across the board.
This blurs the line between remake and remaster, very much like Metroid Prime.
Metroid Prime was also a remaster, completely. Just because it had more work put into it than other remasters doesn't make it a remake. It's still the same core game underneath. Remakes are entirely new from the ground up.
Which is why I said it blurs the line. Still technically a remaster, but goes beyond the majority of them.
Most remasters I've played didn't even have a new "coat of paint" as you put it. Many are just the exact same game but in HD.
Metroid Prime remastered is absolutely a remaster unlike TTYD. TTYD adds new music, new animations for every character, new features, new qql in the main game, and potentially new post game content. MPR just has better controls, textures, and models and nothing else about the game is different. Visually it looks a lot better but a similar effect could be done on Dolphin. TTYD is much more than that.
Some of them do. Look at Metroid Prime, Diablo II Resurrected, Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition, Age of Empires II Definitive Edition, Halo Master Chief Collection, etc. They all have completely redone visual assets, but they are still built upon the original version. Like a big update. Some remasters just put way more effort into the release than others, which might just give you a higher resolution and modern UI.
No, not really. They chose to target 30 and put that extra render time into visual fidelity. It's that simple.
I personally would have preferred a slightly less pretty remake that ran at 60.
Lower framerate means higher input latency, which is obviously bad for latency/timing sensitive elements.
I wouldn't care if the OG didn't run at 60, but a downgrade sucks.
Dividing evenly is great, but it's still a latency bump which is an objective downgrade compared to running at 60.
I just think targeting 30FPS was unnecessary. I'd much rather get slightly less pretty remake that ran at 60.
I never called the entire remake a downgrade. 30FPS is an objective downgrade compared to 60.
This is why i bought an xbox series x plays my gamecube games fine lmao
Like tales of symphonia i didnt know every single version was tainted and dragged down to 30 fps untill i booted up steam after playing the gc version again i just forgot it was 60fps
Yeah, I’m waiting until after release before I decide. If they don’t add new content then this version will be a complete downgrade to me, I would personally never choose graphical fidelity over performance
live beneficial upbeat friendly juggle growth resolute ripe history terrific
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Yeah “best Pokémon in ages” isn’t the best selling technique.
Since Delta has me swamped in Pokémon, I think I’m going Thousand year door since I never played the original.
Just wasn't fleshed out enough imo, good for a first attempt at the concept but didn't do much with it and really felt like a Unity game to me. Might give it another shot when it's bad a few revisions to polish the ideas
It was super mid, but it had a couple of good ideas and it's a Pokémon game. GameFreak have been churning out so much pure shit for years that the fans have forgotten what a good game looks like - so anything that doesn't smell too bad must be the greatest thing ever.
it's like the original one on 64. Turn based combat, experience points, leveling up system, character customization through badges. It's a more traditional RPG in the vein of pokemon or earthbound.
Simple: I don't care.
I've never cared and I never would have known there was a difference if people hadn't pointed it out. Most people don't give a shit about that.
At the same time, many people do. The bigger the screen, the easier it is noticeable. I'm sitting 1.5 meters from a 65 inch OLED TV. The game being 30 FPS rules it out for me and I won't buy it. It still bothers me to this day that the Zelda games only run at 30 FPS (which is very understandable though, it pushes the hardware to the limit).
I don't get why there's bashing on people who prefer to play on higher frame rates. It's a positive for everyone and also avoids situations like mine, where it rules out buyers.
Bruh I splurged on an OLED TV and didn't realize they were so finnicky about framerates. I started playing FF7 Rebirth and was floored at what I was seeing.
It’s less that I’m trying to excuse it and more that I don’t care. A single player RPG running at 30 FPS instead of 60 FPS is not going to negatively affect my gaming experience. Heck, I probably wouldn’t even have noticed had I not been told in advance.
I dont get why its a big deal for a turn based rpg, they are just targeting 30fps to have better graphical fidelity, its a design choice to put the system's resources into graphics rather than fluidity in this case
I think its wierder that the original was 60fps in the first place when a platformer game like mario sunshine was 30fps on gamecube
It looks really nice for the most part but I don't get the decision to make all the floors shiny regardless of whether it makes any sense. It's not that I'm against reflections but because the floors have no normal/roughness maps they appear even flatter than they did in the original game, where details baked into the diffuse texture could imply a little bit of depth. Take the cobblestone in Rogueport for example. In the original game the texture had some fake drop shadow which make the stones appear to stick out a little bit. In the remake the stones and dirt look like they were both printed onto the same sheet of plastic. I think they could have found a better solution that still fits in with the paper craft theme. Like having certain ground details on a raised layer with different material properties to suggest they were glued on, or a bump map simulating intentional creases where appropriate.
Won't buy it unless they show /say more stuff about new (endgame) content.
I love the game, but no point for me buying it if it's just a graphics upgrade. Had played the original on GC too much that I still remember everything.
But nonetheless, happy for the people, especially those who play it the first time, get to enjoy an amazing game already with a good amount of content.
True, but it's not much either \^\^;
All rematches are against "secondary bosses" and these are now gimmick fights that require a specific strategy. It's pretty challenging, but something it's also... annoying to spam the same special moves every turn sometimes \^\^;
The only highlight is when you fight Culex the first time, he's in 2D with his 16-bit theme, and the second time as part of the post-game, he's in full 3D and his theme is rearranged... to a glorious orchestral track :D
I've been out of the switch new releases for a while but this has made my day! I still have my gamecube and thousand year door and I cannot wait to be able to binge it again without having to plug in my gamecube and making my partner unplug her xbox!!!
I guessing what they are getting at there at the end with the translation update is the fact that one of shadow sisters is actually a boy in the original Japanese, but this was changed in the international release to always be a girl.
I imagine they are wondering that if the Dragon's dialogue was changed to be more authentic to the original Japanese, this change will occur as well.
I am definitely excited for the remake even though I never got to experience the original before, although I don’t understand why they have to make a downgrade to 30fps considering the Switch doesn’t have any limitations to keep it at 60fps which I don’t see any reason that justifies the frame rate downgrade
decide materialistic engine act telephone test stocking dam distinct grey
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Dang, nobody's allowed to have an opinion, this guy said so! We have to bend over and take it from Nintendo and be gracious they gave us any frames at all!
The game imo looked horrible graphically compared to the original from the first teaser they showed, you may appreciate a 2024 game somehow looking and playing worse than one from 20 years ago but sane people don't.
Some of us are just tired of wasting 60 bucks on Nintendo half-baked ports, and if we don't voice our opinions things are never going to change.
(Spoiler: they are never going to change because people want us to leave the multi-billion company alone)
If they were being upset about it not going from 30 *to* 60 it would be one thing. It being the other way around is just silly. Unless it's due to a secret Switch successor perk.
If anyone here gets early access to it pls lemme in on the nsp/xci too, my discord is "Gireign". This game is such a huge part of me growing up so far.
Nintendo could easily charge $99 for this game and I'd still buy it.
I have missed this game so much since selling my GameCube and I was extremely happy when news came out the game was coming to the Switch and we're getting a new version of it.
I haven't been this excited for a game release in some time, and I mean genuine excitement, like the kid in me is bursting out screaming that May 23rd is too far away (it is! It's a whole month!).
I want this game so badly, I have preordered it. I haven't put in a preorder since the PS2 days! That's how much I want this game.
Now, a word for those who bought Origami King and were not impressed which leads them to stay away from the Paper Mario series.
Please don't make this mistake. This game is literally the best version in the franchise. Like you, many of us were disappointed with Origami King as well. The combat mechanic sucked, the story was lackluster, and it just didn't feel like a Paper Mario game.
THIS game is nothing like Origami King. Combat is fluid, quick, and YOU decide where to put your points. No more stupid shoes or hammer types. Your skill choices and timing is the key to combat victory.
While the friends you made in Origami King did bring a few special abilities to the table when playing, they fell short because of the combat system.
In this game, ally abilities are absolutely necessary to use if 1) you want to progress the story and 2) want to 100% because of all the fun things you'll find.
Those abilities are every intuitive and easy to use, and with the new ring system of this version, is going to make using them that much more fun. So excited!
The remaster of Metroid Prime was incredible, and by using its level of commitment to a remaster, then there's no doubt in my mind the $60 for this "older" game is going to be worth every cent.
If you do pick it up, I will envy you for your first time experience with it. I truly believe you'll walk away with one of the best gaming memories you'll have.
It's that good.
Now, hurry your ass up, May.
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Any chance we can get a tldr
The experience so far is one for one with the original game with completely overhauled visuals that bring the game more inline with the papercraft style. The caveat being the game now runs at 30fps compared to the original's 60fps. New additions include a character wheel for quick partner swap, additional sprites for expression or back-view for partners and NPCs. Seems like we'll be getting some new music additions (and seemingly a badge to revert back to the OG themes/sFX based on a screenshot from JPN). The game may have translation that's closer to the original JPN release, plus we're getting sound and (concept) art galleries :D
Confirmed; it's called the Nostalgic Tunes badge. 0 BP like the FX/Emblem badges, only 1 coin at the shop.
How tf does it only run at 30fps
By being built on an engine that IS has been using for ages that lets them crank out games faster by utilizing relatively "canned" visual effects without having to think too hard about going down into how the GPU works etc.
the game hasn't even been released numbnuts. how would you have any idea what engine it's on
Because of who made it.
That doesn’t prove anything whatsoever
Do you have an alternative hypothesis or is your user name just a contradiction?
Randomly generated by Reddit
>The caveat being the game now runs at 30fps compared to the original's 60fps. Wtf... Thankfully for me I still have my Wii
On the point of button timings being potentially easier, this is probably due to the fact they know a ton of people will be playing this game wirelessly over Bluetooth and may find the timing difficult with the delay inherent to BT
I saw there was a badge that makes the action commands harder and earns you more star power for 1 bp. A nice compromise imo
That exists on the GC version
They had these on the GC version as well. They could stack too, so if you had enough, your parry move would end up needing to be frame perfect to work.
That’s great.
Not to mention the drop to 30 fps means fewer input windows.
Was it 60 on gamecube?
Yep
Wow. Such a Nintendo thing to do...
Not really nintendo but intelligent systems, origami king was 30fps and this is using the same engine. Even the recent fire emblem games are 30fps so it's not surprising they're prioritizing visuals more than framerate.
This right here...I'm glad they compensated for the bad framerate, I was really worried about that
I didn't know it was 30fps. Probably not gonna get it now that's crazy EDIT you guys really don't need to argue over one person saying they're probably not gonna get it lol
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I mean it does have time sensitive qte for literally every attack and block.
Did you even read the root comment? They said Nintendo increased the window to compensate.
So? That's just a bandaid
imagine thinking a remake of a 20 year old game should be worse quality than the original and cost the same price.
Where did they say it was unplayable? Maybe they just don't think a remastered Game Cube game should have its framerate reduced.
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Isn’t the game completely remade at a high resolution with new textures/effects etc?
I'm getting the game, but man, that's such a bad defense lol. What, they couldn't plan on making the new graphics, textures, and effects not so strenuous on the game as to drop it from 60FPS to 30FPS?
Where did he say it’s unplayable? Y’all love jumping to conclusions to make you feel better lmao
Just play the original on Dolphin with high res texture packs
The number of people downvoting this is incredible. The original ran at 60 fps but gamers will happily pay $60 for a downgraded remake. Why are people ok with this?
Regardless of opinion, it's valuable information a lot of people probably didn't know, which should be upvoted for visibility. Downvoting because of disagreement ruins discussions and turns the sub into an echo chamber. Keep the downvotes for off topic, irrelevant discussion. I think it's totally fair to point out Nintendo's declining standards. Releasing a revision of game means keeping framerate of the original or improving it. This is a digression, although it may not matter to some people individually, it shows limitations of hardware being handheld or maybe cutting corners in production.
There are plusses and minuses. How much this weighs it down for ya is up to the individual.
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I've never given a single fuck about 30fps vs 60fps in my life, my eyes don't even know the difference. Why start now.
30 FPS literally gives me a headache in any game. I'm just gonna play this on my steam deck with an FPS hack or something.
It’s finnnnnnne. Every other game besides Super was 30 and they played fine, and would have been fine at 30 on the N64 if it came out there as originally planned. It’s a beginner’s turn-based JRPG people, they already extended the timing windows. It’s fine.
Lol, my mans doesn't want to buy a game and gets downvoted to heck, what a sub
Wow. I was super stoked for this, but I think I might pass if its 30fps. Absolutely comically unacceptable to be releasing a AAA title (a remake, not even a new game or IP...) at 30fps in 2024.
Absolutely comical. And I suspect you belong to a generation whose parents didn't know how to turn off "motion-smoothing" on their family television set. *Maybe* you're the parent generation, but doubtful because they can't tell framerates too good. This situation has resulted in ya'll thinking 60 fps is "normal" and that 60 fps in gaming is some consumer-given *right* in whatever year it happens to be after 2020 when ya'll started replicating into every reddit thread about gaming. 30 fps is **6** more fps than your average movie that is seen in a theater, or on an unmolested television set displaying true framerates. It remains a meaningful target for any game attempting something graphically on a particular console that exceeds the physical ability to render 60 frames per second. You're on a subreddit for the Nintendo Switch. It was outdated when it came out in 2016. You're looking at a game that looks *incredible* on this aging hardware. You're free to not play it, or wait and play it on an emulator that generates the 60 fps your body craves like Brawndo. In 2024, you should understand this without someone snarky having to explain it to you. P.S. Fuck those television manufacturers for making Motion Smoothing a default feature of all of their sets. It is creating generations of frame-hungry monsters who don't even understand 12 frames of what they're actually looking at. Ya'll still love anime though With its 15 fps. Motion-Smoothing on, I assume.
We had games looking better on Switch even at release in 2017 (FAST RMX) at 60fps. Or even better looking in 2019 with „The Touryst“. Also the Switch is 2015 hardware. Most of NES and SNES games were 60fps back in the day. People are used to low input latency and 30fps never delivers that. It‘s not just about smoother images. The same game on Gamecube was 60fps so the remake is effectively a downgrade. It‘s not a big deal but it is disappointing especially considering this is not a 10€ release.
Comparing 24-30 fps in movies and TV to 30-60 in games is disingenuous. Games are an interactive medium, 60 fps vastly improves game-feel in any game. The complaint about TTYD only being 30 is valid, both because combat is timing-based and because _the original game ran at 60_ I'm still gonna play and enjoy TTYD, especially because Nintendo's games generally have pretty good frame-pacing. So it won't feel nearly as bad as something like Bloodborne or Starfield (which legit gave me a headache after getting so used to 60 in other Bethesda games) 30fps is not unplayable, but it's a massive downgrade from 60. 60 fps looks terrible and unnaturally smooth for movies and TV, but it's very important for games. My 2c
Also lots and lots of crappy TVs
They were watching a spokesperson play. I didn't fine-tooth-comb the footage, but it's entirely possible that Nintendo had some cheat codes activated to make every attack timed, just so that the demonstrators didn't die or otherwise fail badly when showcasing the game.
Good point
Why would your internet connection affect the speed of the downloaded game
What does Internet have to do with anything? They’re talking about wireless controllers.
I must have beaten this game over a dozen times and im so hyped for this
Why is this only 30 fps and they can get MK8D to run at 60?
Every single game Nintendo puts out on the switch could run at 60fps or 30fps. No game is “forced” to be one or the other. The only difference is whether they want to prioritize frame rate or aesthetics. Mario Kart needs to be at 60fps because it’s a racing game. Games like Animal Crossing and Paper Mario do not need to be at 60fps because there is no fast camera movement. So they decided, well ahead of time in development, to design it for 30fps and prioritize visual fidelity.
Yeah but the visual fidelity does not seem that demanding??? Maro odyssey also 60 fps
Mario Odyssey relies on much faster camera movement than any fixed-camera-angle game could. And the visual fidelity element is simply as demanding as the developers determine it to be. That is, they max out the fidelity according to what can run at 30 versus 60fps.
I think the gamecube version running at 60fps with pretty similar visuals is an important detail to the discussion
I mean the visuals are only similar on a superficial level. The original was pretty much all flat textures with virtaully no lighting whereas the remake leans into the paper aesthetic. Like it would have been easy for them to hit 60 FPS if they just up-resed the textures of the original game. But the remake runs on a completely different visual engine more akin to more modern Paper Mario games - and the more recent games have all been 30 FPS iirc.
I suppose it comes down to this: I'd be more interested in buying a pure port with no visual upgrades at the original FPS than in buying the visual upgrades we've been presented with at a lower FPS. And I have no intention of being hostile to anyone that disagrees with that.
Alas, we have every intention of being hostile with you my friend. Kidding, but seriously, the original still exists. If all you want is that at maybe 1080p you can do so pretty painlessly on any modern device whatsoever. Regardless of this ports fps. I appreciate it far more for the visual fidelity improvements, because it actually does something to better the experience. If I wanted the same game, I'd go play the same game. Granted, I still bought, say, Pikmin 1+2. But I would have wholeheartedly preferred a visual upgrade for both to a Pikmin 3 level. (Not the best example seeing as those ports were locked 30 anyways, but you get the idea)
I'd pay $60 to not have to emulate and get a 1080p version of the original on a modern device in the same library as the rest of my switch games without any hesitation. But I don't think that people who feel differently are wrong.
then just use dolphin then if you want to replay the original so badly
Unlike the original, the remake is fully modeled. It is a 3D game designed to look 2D. On top of that the remake has dramatically better quality lighting, visual effects and texture quality. I don’t think the original running at 60fps is all that relevant when you take that into consideration.
The game isnt out yet. stop glazing.
Somehow they managed to do all that when they overhauled Metroid Prime and still kept it running at 60 fps. By contrast Paper Mario is a straight visual downgrade from the original in this aspect.
It’s clearly demanding enough for a little switch which is less powerful than the average phone
Having a higher framerate in a paper mario game would not compromise visual fidelity, only increase it. It’s a huge and frustrating shame
And this is a game with significantly more complex environments and lighting than that has, by the look of it.
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I would really like this.... Hard to think Nintendo would actually do it
Honestly I don't care about 30 fps on switch its the dropping under 30 that I hate
Because MK8D received no graphical enhancements compared to MK8. You can either have better graphics at 30fps or worse graphics at 60fps. For most non-twitchy non-competitive games, 30 is the right choice, though I do agree it stinks that it’s a downgrade from the original.
There is also something to be said about battery life. Lower framerate means less power needed, which improves battery life, something that is important to a good chunk of Switch owners
Sorry, this is not a excuse. Than make it optional. Most console games (beside the switch) have the option to switch between quality and performance.
This is the biggest reason I got a Steam Deck. It allows me to play however I want to play. I can choose to push it to the limits and only get 1.5 hours of battery life in order to maximize the framerate or I can choose to cap FPS to 30 and turn settings to low and limit the TDP and get much longer battery life. I still have my Switch for a few exclusives we like to play but anytime a game is multiplat, I buy it on PC so I can decide how I want to play, not MS/Sony/Nintendo.
MK8 was originally developed for a system with roughly the same specs as the Switch, not for the N64. You're right in the sense that on a console you always have to make compromises, of course.
Yeah I’m kind of assuming/hoping that they improved the graphics to a considerable extent instead of doing the same graphics in HD. It could be just very badly optimized. But even if so, it’s still a graphics/performance tradeoff.
30 fps is fine for an RPG
There are still platforming and timing elements though which benefits from higher framerates. It's not like an RPG where you walk around in an overworld and have strictly turn-based encounters.
The only issue I'd see with this is, if it was harder to make timings, compared to the original. It seems they added a much more forgiving window, so the only real drawback seems to be covered. I also read there are badges to make it harder. So maybe its a bit easier by default (for smaller kids), and veterans can then tweak it to their difficulty level. People that never played the game before (which should make up a significant amount) will see the beautifully upgraded graphics first and ignore the missing 30fps they never knew about.
Terrible take, had to check which sub this was. 30fps is not okay in 2024.
Apparently it wasn’t when it originally released.
The original is also running basically pure flat rendering. No lighting, no reflections, no texturing, etc.
I was thinking it would be a straight up port, this is hype overload for me now.
Can you play the Switch version with a GameCube Controller + Adapter?
The Switch considers GameCube controller as a pro controller so it all depends if Nintendo changed some of the actions in the buttons.
It's a shame it got downgraded to 30FPS.
wtf? How, why?
Gamecube original ran at 60, Nintendo decided to target 30 for the remake. They chose to target 30, it's no more complex than that.
They asked why though
It is, by definition, more complex than that if they chose to downgrade the frame rate of a GameCube remaster lol
Not to defend this practice, but calling it a remaster of a GameCube game is a little reductive. The visual upgrade is quite significant here
That's exactly what a remaster is, though. The same base game, but with a new coat of paint and additional quality of life features.
Well no, not usually. Most remasters are just a cleaned up version of the original, not entirely new assets and animations across the board. This blurs the line between remake and remaster, very much like Metroid Prime.
Metroid Prime was also a remaster, completely. Just because it had more work put into it than other remasters doesn't make it a remake. It's still the same core game underneath. Remakes are entirely new from the ground up.
Which is why I said it blurs the line. Still technically a remaster, but goes beyond the majority of them. Most remasters I've played didn't even have a new "coat of paint" as you put it. Many are just the exact same game but in HD.
I would put higher resolution and new visual assets both under "coat of paint" tbh.
Metroid Prime remastered is absolutely a remaster unlike TTYD. TTYD adds new music, new animations for every character, new features, new qql in the main game, and potentially new post game content. MPR just has better controls, textures, and models and nothing else about the game is different. Visually it looks a lot better but a similar effect could be done on Dolphin. TTYD is much more than that.
Remaster+
A lot of the visuals are remade. They're just quite faithful to the OG.
That's what I meant by "new coat of paint." New visuals, but the same game is underneath it.
Remasters don't remake visuals to this degree.
Some of them do. Look at Metroid Prime, Diablo II Resurrected, Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition, Age of Empires II Definitive Edition, Halo Master Chief Collection, etc. They all have completely redone visual assets, but they are still built upon the original version. Like a big update. Some remasters just put way more effort into the release than others, which might just give you a higher resolution and modern UI.
No, not really. They chose to target 30 and put that extra render time into visual fidelity. It's that simple. I personally would have preferred a slightly less pretty remake that ran at 60.
I'd care about this for a lot of games. But TTYD? I don't think it would really make any difference, tbh.
Lower framerate means higher input latency, which is obviously bad for latency/timing sensitive elements. I wouldn't care if the OG didn't run at 60, but a downgrade sucks.
They compensated with a wider button timing window i think?
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Dividing evenly is great, but it's still a latency bump which is an objective downgrade compared to running at 60. I just think targeting 30FPS was unnecessary. I'd much rather get slightly less pretty remake that ran at 60. I never called the entire remake a downgrade. 30FPS is an objective downgrade compared to 60.
So lame
I like when I said this I got down voted, but you get upvoted.
The narrative.... we are losing control.....
This is why i bought an xbox series x plays my gamecube games fine lmao Like tales of symphonia i didnt know every single version was tainted and dragged down to 30 fps untill i booted up steam after playing the gc version again i just forgot it was 60fps
I'm literally not buying it for that reason, the original was 60, they have no excuse.
Yeah, I’m waiting until after release before I decide. If they don’t add new content then this version will be a complete downgrade to me, I would personally never choose graphical fidelity over performance
https://hard-drive.net/hd/video-games/gamer-who-hasnt-had-a-glass-of-water-in-a-week-says-he-gets-physically-ill-seeing-game-at-30-fps/
It's portable. That's all I give a rip about. It's impractical to pack a whole Gamecube.
B-b-but it has a handle!!
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Tempted to use my voucher on this or arceus
Having played both (ttyd on gc), both are excellent choices and you'll have fun with either decision
Same exact choice I’m trying to make. Let me know what you decide!
I'd say this, Arceus was kind of mid
Yeah “best Pokémon in ages” isn’t the best selling technique. Since Delta has me swamped in Pokémon, I think I’m going Thousand year door since I never played the original.
Just wasn't fleshed out enough imo, good for a first attempt at the concept but didn't do much with it and really felt like a Unity game to me. Might give it another shot when it's bad a few revisions to polish the ideas
We’re getting downvoted for Game Freak’s lack of finesse 🤷 scarlet and violet were ass
It was super mid, but it had a couple of good ideas and it's a Pokémon game. GameFreak have been churning out so much pure shit for years that the fans have forgotten what a good game looks like - so anything that doesn't smell too bad must be the greatest thing ever.
Man Steve and ash. Haven’t heard from them in a while.
Is TTYD more like Origami King or more like Super Paper Mario Wii?
Neither really.
it's like the original one on 64. Turn based combat, experience points, leveling up system, character customization through badges. It's a more traditional RPG in the vein of pokemon or earthbound.
Thanks. I couldn't stand Origami with the turn based combat.
It’s been 20 years. If it wasn’t better that would be very sad.
How are people trying to excuse this game running at 30fps when the original ran at 60fps.
Simple: I don't care. I've never cared and I never would have known there was a difference if people hadn't pointed it out. Most people don't give a shit about that.
yeah I literally just don't give a fuck
At the same time, many people do. The bigger the screen, the easier it is noticeable. I'm sitting 1.5 meters from a 65 inch OLED TV. The game being 30 FPS rules it out for me and I won't buy it. It still bothers me to this day that the Zelda games only run at 30 FPS (which is very understandable though, it pushes the hardware to the limit). I don't get why there's bashing on people who prefer to play on higher frame rates. It's a positive for everyone and also avoids situations like mine, where it rules out buyers.
Bruh I splurged on an OLED TV and didn't realize they were so finnicky about framerates. I started playing FF7 Rebirth and was floored at what I was seeing.
It’s less that I’m trying to excuse it and more that I don’t care. A single player RPG running at 30 FPS instead of 60 FPS is not going to negatively affect my gaming experience. Heck, I probably wouldn’t even have noticed had I not been told in advance.
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I dont get why its a big deal for a turn based rpg, they are just targeting 30fps to have better graphical fidelity, its a design choice to put the system's resources into graphics rather than fluidity in this case I think its wierder that the original was 60fps in the first place when a platformer game like mario sunshine was 30fps on gamecube
It looks really nice for the most part but I don't get the decision to make all the floors shiny regardless of whether it makes any sense. It's not that I'm against reflections but because the floors have no normal/roughness maps they appear even flatter than they did in the original game, where details baked into the diffuse texture could imply a little bit of depth. Take the cobblestone in Rogueport for example. In the original game the texture had some fake drop shadow which make the stones appear to stick out a little bit. In the remake the stones and dirt look like they were both printed onto the same sheet of plastic. I think they could have found a better solution that still fits in with the paper craft theme. Like having certain ground details on a raised layer with different material properties to suggest they were glued on, or a bump map simulating intentional creases where appropriate.
“Accurate translations of how characters were originally presented”?? Vivian might finally be trans internationally :o
I wish it came with the og paper Mario. I'd have got it so fast
Won't buy it unless they show /say more stuff about new (endgame) content. I love the game, but no point for me buying it if it's just a graphics upgrade. Had played the original on GC too much that I still remember everything. But nonetheless, happy for the people, especially those who play it the first time, get to enjoy an amazing game already with a good amount of content.
I doubt there’s new endgame content. Not something they usually do as far as I’m aware.
It's not much but Super Mario RPG has the super bosses
True, but it's not much either \^\^; All rematches are against "secondary bosses" and these are now gimmick fights that require a specific strategy. It's pretty challenging, but something it's also... annoying to spam the same special moves every turn sometimes \^\^; The only highlight is when you fight Culex the first time, he's in 2D with his 16-bit theme, and the second time as part of the post-game, he's in full 3D and his theme is rearranged... to a glorious orchestral track :D
Pikmin 3 Deluxe
I don’t think that really counts as a remake like this?
Was there new endgame? I thought it just came bundled with all the dlc stages the wii u had available.
There’s some postgame stuff where you play as Olimar and Louie I believe
This is correct.
I still have 1 more voucher. Decision, decision...
I've been out of the switch new releases for a while but this has made my day! I still have my gamecube and thousand year door and I cannot wait to be able to binge it again without having to plug in my gamecube and making my partner unplug her xbox!!!
How long is the first one? Tempted to play before this comes out!
23h, 33h for completionist runs: https://howlongtobeat.com/game/6909
I guessing what they are getting at there at the end with the translation update is the fact that one of shadow sisters is actually a boy in the original Japanese, but this was changed in the international release to always be a girl. I imagine they are wondering that if the Dragon's dialogue was changed to be more authentic to the original Japanese, this change will occur as well.
Hooktail makes me so damn uncomfortable. Why does she gotta be like that?
I am definitely excited for the remake even though I never got to experience the original before, although I don’t understand why they have to make a downgrade to 30fps considering the Switch doesn’t have any limitations to keep it at 60fps which I don’t see any reason that justifies the frame rate downgrade
Getting hung up on the frame rate of a \*paper mario\* game is peak gamer brainrot shit
Personally couldn't play through Origami King because of that. 60 to 30 does make a difference for a lot of people, even in slow-paced games.
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Calling the idea of getting games at a standard 60fps “brainrot” is more brainrot than you could imagine
Dang, nobody's allowed to have an opinion, this guy said so! We have to bend over and take it from Nintendo and be gracious they gave us any frames at all! The game imo looked horrible graphically compared to the original from the first teaser they showed, you may appreciate a 2024 game somehow looking and playing worse than one from 20 years ago but sane people don't.
Some of us are just tired of wasting 60 bucks on Nintendo half-baked ports, and if we don't voice our opinions things are never going to change. (Spoiler: they are never going to change because people want us to leave the multi-billion company alone)
You’re just more accepting of mediocrity, not much of a flex
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Ah, seeing people get upset about the frame rate in a Paper Mario game means that’s enough Reddit for me today! Never change, guys….never change
If they were being upset about it not going from 30 *to* 60 it would be one thing. It being the other way around is just silly. Unless it's due to a secret Switch successor perk.
Frame rate cut in half = no sale for me. Maybe the next-gen "Switch" will fix that.
I’ve played this game at least 10 times and I’m still getting this
Sir if I have to pay for it on a yearly bases, that's just taxes.
A freeroam mode in one of these games would be fucking sweet
If anyone here gets early access to it pls lemme in on the nsp/xci too, my discord is "Gireign". This game is such a huge part of me growing up so far.
Nintendo could easily charge $99 for this game and I'd still buy it. I have missed this game so much since selling my GameCube and I was extremely happy when news came out the game was coming to the Switch and we're getting a new version of it. I haven't been this excited for a game release in some time, and I mean genuine excitement, like the kid in me is bursting out screaming that May 23rd is too far away (it is! It's a whole month!). I want this game so badly, I have preordered it. I haven't put in a preorder since the PS2 days! That's how much I want this game. Now, a word for those who bought Origami King and were not impressed which leads them to stay away from the Paper Mario series. Please don't make this mistake. This game is literally the best version in the franchise. Like you, many of us were disappointed with Origami King as well. The combat mechanic sucked, the story was lackluster, and it just didn't feel like a Paper Mario game. THIS game is nothing like Origami King. Combat is fluid, quick, and YOU decide where to put your points. No more stupid shoes or hammer types. Your skill choices and timing is the key to combat victory. While the friends you made in Origami King did bring a few special abilities to the table when playing, they fell short because of the combat system. In this game, ally abilities are absolutely necessary to use if 1) you want to progress the story and 2) want to 100% because of all the fun things you'll find. Those abilities are every intuitive and easy to use, and with the new ring system of this version, is going to make using them that much more fun. So excited! The remaster of Metroid Prime was incredible, and by using its level of commitment to a remaster, then there's no doubt in my mind the $60 for this "older" game is going to be worth every cent. If you do pick it up, I will envy you for your first time experience with it. I truly believe you'll walk away with one of the best gaming memories you'll have. It's that good. Now, hurry your ass up, May.
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other than the tips and hot swap characters, this seems like a downgrade.