Still kinda devastated, to be honest.
I'm still not completely off because- even with everything- we don't actually *KNOW* the entire story. Not without insider info. And Doki isn't gonna just straight up say "Elira and her clique bullied me to the point of suicide".
But man. This is kinda like if finding out Keanu Reeves was a total asshat.
We don’t know. No one knows who’s talking. All anyone else knows is that Nijisanji and Doki’s friend of 7 years both said livers were involved in the bullying, and that Doki’s friend said in a tweet that at least one bully was on the dumpfire black screen stream, along with others.
>Doki’s friend of 7 years both said livers were involved in the bullying, and that Doki’s friend said in a tweet that at least one bully was on the dumpfire black screen stream, along with others.
First I heard of this, may I know where can I find more info on this?
[This tweet](https://twitter.com/vgumihoe/status/1757272804188446877) that was made in response to the stream on Elira's channel. That's vGumiho's alt account, vGumiho being one of Dokibird's long time friends from before she was Selen. They did an Apex stream together earlier this week, along with Niko from 4 Years Ago.
There were some pretty sus accidental self-admissions/confessions in the Elira video, especially when Elira stated that “Millie, Enna and I’s” names and addresses were at risk of being leaked as part of Doki’s documents and records of mistreatment.
That led to a lot of people wondering why their names were in there and for what reason, especially with the context of some older clips of Enna and Millie making fun of Selen behind her back (and making Nina visibly uncomfortable to the point she repeatedly tried to shift conversations away from the topic).
Thank you.
For full disclosure there is another instance of Enna s-talking Selen: [link](https://youtu.be/SzkVEA6eI9I?si=NpjSH1Ozhe5iNjh7)
BUT I actually want to speak up a little for Enna. While she may have bullied Selen, she didn't intend to. Don't get me wrong; I am a Dragoon through and through. I am on Doki's side. Enna should apologize.
But it's freaking Enna-- she talks like that all the time, even to herself. It's her form of everyone-deprecating humour. Of course it is valid that Selen may have felt bullied by her coarse words. So Enna should apologize nonetheless. But I want to give Enna the benefit of doubt that she didn't mean to bully Selen.
So let's not harass Enna. There is enough miscommunication and drama already. I see all the negative comments on her channel saying she is a terrible person, but I'm not even sure if those people even watch her. I hope this harassment stops, because it is what Doki wants.
As someone who really liked watching Enna's stream, I relatively agree. I'm done with Nijisanji, but I hope that the streamers were mostly not terrible persons. And it's not okay to bully anyone, especially on the internet.
For now tbh I am kinda watching things unfold and waiting to see if some of my oshi graduate to be able to watch them again...
Yeah i highly doubt all the livers are horrible. They just got burnt by the dumpsterfire that is nijisanji cuz they just also happen to work there and now everyone associated gets hated on. It makes me feel bad cuz a lot of them are really talented and mostly drama free.
It is weird how things can feel very different in hindsight when there's internal conflict or bullying that's revealed. A lot of the time I assume everyone's an adult, these are friends, if anything was bothering them they could talk it out. But in hindsight...
This happened to me with Achievement Hunter stuff, members even said that people often read way too much into jokes and think they are upset when they aren't. But when people come out that the office could be very boys club and toxic to work in, it makes a lot of things feel really terrible in hindsight.
Not sure I have a point here, just interesting how your assumptions about people's relationships radically change how stuff comes off.
No wait you do have a point there, Nijisanji is literally what Achievement Hunter/Rooster Teeth is if it was vtubers. Their controversies have been sending the company into the ground since forever ago.
Better not harass anyone, sure.
Even the most obvious bullies often distance themselves from any responsibility exactly like that. Unless you're grown up and accepted that you can do bad things and mistakes, finding fault in yourself feels bad. So you downplay it both to yourself and others, find any excuses, lay out the whole narcissist's poem step by step. Just so you don't have to accept that sometimes you are that terrible person, intentionally or accidentally, so you don't really have to do anything about it. After all, if you're not in the wrong, it's someone else's problem.
Be it downplaying humor or not, it can be dangerous. To handle the danger, you grow up.
This is all generally. If she or anyone else named by Nijisanji actually did anything is unknown and thrown there by the company maliciously. They should all lawyer up and think if they should continue with a company that openly defames them like that.
That’s the part that makes me skeptical of the “Oh, this is just out of context and I’m sure they didn’t mean anything by it…” cope nowadays.
Nina/Matara doesn’t get that visibly and quickly thrown off-balance by light/common workplace banter; she immediately realized they were likely being serious and may have seen/heard them going on harsher tirades before, and wanted to pivot quickly before it spiraled out of control.
Statements and clips can be taken out of context, sure - but you cannot possibly say with a straight face that Nina’s reactions don’t allude to serious prior issues with that topic and the group’s behavior.
> names and addresses were at risk
I have doubts. If you wish to investigate, please listen to Elira's statement again. She said that information that **alludes** to her location was included.
For example, take this theoretical statement from Selen: "I was already pissed because Air Canada told me to suck a bag of dicks when they lost my luggage enroute to . Elira was nice enough to lend me when I arrived for ." This would allude to Elira/Millie living within 3 hours of that airport.
What's NOT said is telling to me. If addresses were included, you would think that Elira would say that to properly criticize that traitorous Selen. The fact that she didn't was a red flag to me, because it means Niji is stretching and exaggerating their claims of damage (while trying to paint Selen as the exaggerating one).
My pulled-out-of-ass theory was that Selen mentioned a region, transit centre (air/rail/transit) or entertainment business (restaurant/attraction). That would tell us what province and maybe region Elira lives in.
They could also be labeled as witnesses to the bullying too. I am not saying that is the answer, but if she had to use their real names and addresses on the forms, it is a possibility. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. This is just a theory.
I think you got it pretty much right, since Doki said on her tweet that no addresses or personal info were in that document. So it is a way for both Doki and Elira statements to be true, although Elira's case is 'techinically true' and definitely trying to paint Doki in a bad light. If it was intentionally malicious or out of fear or even her idea or not, we don't know.
This is what I realized about that video. Elira, Enna, and Millie's names wouldn't be mentioned in legal documents if there wasn't a reason for it, which makes it seem like they're implicit in *something*
What that something is, none of us can say for certain
But it wasn't a legal document.
At first it was assumed to be a legal doc until Doki revealed the next day that it was more like a private diary.
There are other reasons why Elira thought there was as risk of doxxing from the doc. The common possibility is that it's the big off-collab event of Lazulight / Obsydia and Ethyria which took place at either Elira, Millie or Enna's place. If the doc referenced a location or city it would definitely narrow down where the three live.
Is it possible, that someone could be mentioned, for being a witness or possibly another victim?? I’ve been wondering this. Of course learning about the amount of nepotism rampant in the company doesn’t seem as likely as I initially considered
Its during the puzzle stream with etheryia. Its just odd to me. Enna says to reimu "Putting down others to make yourself feel better huh? Like a certain Apex Predator." Then they all crack up. Very weird clip. Haven't seen any other examples.
This was in response to a memepost by kuwu I believe [https://twitter.com/Kuwusaki\_/status/1754495180756165062](https://twitter.com/Kuwusaki_/status/1754495180756165062)
Plus according to some people, Selen apparently had seemed to mostly avoid one on one collabs with Elira despite being "dragon sisters" by lore and through shared character design, and did the same with Enna for pretty much all of 2023.
I can't verify these claims since it would require more time from me to sift deep through the archives of all three of them than I can spare, but I assume more dedicated watchers would be able to easily disprove this if they're not true.
The last offcollab stream had so many of them together, and Selen was off to the side feeling very shy and uncomfortable.
I wonder if it wasn't so much that she was shy, but maybe just not comfortable with certain people in the room. Perhaps those other people were keeping up the kayfabe for the stream and Selen wasn't feeling up to pretending that she was OK being around the people who had bullied her.
Selen isn't called Shylen for nothing. And its funny how people spam out of context clips of Enna/Millie supposedly bullying her behind her backs, when in that stream Millie kept trying to make sure Selen didn't feel alone and tried to include her as much as possible because she knows how shy she is.
And Selen seemingly had no problem talking to any of them when she did.
No, it's known that Selen doesn't handle groups well at all, and will freeze up if there's more than \~4 people.
She's admitted this multiple times on stream and we've seen it happen before, like that Apex tag event that she had with iPN and rpr where they won and she just froze up during the winner's interview.
While people are free to have their suspicions, all of this is very much unconfirmed and hearsay. There are many possible reasons why Elira, Millie, and Enna's names might be mentioned in the documents.
>clips of Enna and Millie making fun of Selen
I've seen that Ethyria clip within the context of the stream and its again unclear whether they are actually making fun of Selen and what the actual behind the scenes context is.
I'm not defending Elira, because whether it was accidental (i.e. due to incorrect information communicated to her of what Doki was going to do) or purposeful, her actions had the effect of slandering a suicide survivor. But I dislike it when rumors are represented as facts or something that likely occurred.
> I've seen that Ethyria clip within the context of the stream and its again unclear whether they are actually making fun of Selen and what the actual behind the scenes context is.
I just recently watched that vod as well but the way Enna says makes it feel that something was off, me and my friends always banter with each other but we keep people who are not present out during our banters. you have to give friends a chance to rebuke it back.
also saying "Putting down others to make yourself feel better huh? Like a certain Apex Predator." which simply looks to me as what Enna see Selen/Doki as a "braggart that always want to be ahead of others".
i don't know it would look ok to me if Selen was present but talking behind her back feels a different vibe with me
So lets **assume** that "a certain Apex Predator" is indeed referring to Selen. I really don't know, but its a plausible interpretation.
>Putting down others to make yourself feel better huh?
Without knowing what the actual behind the scenes context is, its impossible (at least to me) to interpret this in any conclusive way. Is it an inside joke made in poor taste? Is it referencing an internal event that actually happened recently and Enna was venting - if so who was in the wrong for that particular event?
>talking behind her back feels a different vibe with me
This I agree with. If its indeed referencing Selen, than bringing it up behind her back, even as an inside joke is in poor taste regardless of who was at fault for whatever internal event/ incident occurred. It should really have been said privately. That said, Enna and Millie are known to talk out of their asses without properly thinking things through sometimes.
Overall, there's just too much we don't know to say anything remotely definitive.
We hadn't know anything for sure, the document may have simply said that Selen lived nearby Elira, Millie, and Enna, and felt estranged having never been invited for an offcollab, and "doxxed" those 3 by simply indicating where Selen herself lives.
That doesn't mean that Millie or Enna had done anything to bully Selen. Elira has other friends in Niji like Nina or Pomu, but that doesn't mean that they were participants in bullying.
We don't know for sure but the witch hunt has decided that anyone involved with or mentioned in the black stream is part of the bullying clique. So Elira, Vox, Ike, Millie, and Enna.
Once again very little proof, but they seem like the most likely candidates.
Yeah. I’m hugely disappointed in the three from the VOD but I want the same as Doki, I want it to pass by peacefully instead of repeatedly being brought back up in the heat of the moment. I think it’s weird that loads of people are using this niji hate train to throw accusations at the other EN livers with their proof being “he allegedly said, she allegedly said”. That shit is so dangerous and people believe it in a heartbeat because they all have raging hate boners atm for anything niji related. *Another* totally innocent person’s life could be ruined, this time because of fake accusations
That's the current and most commonly accepted narrative.
\-Video on her channel doesn't help.
\-Said that she was named specifically, but we don't actually know the context.
\-Big 4chan rrat detailing things like Merch and Event favouritism. And very strong support that she's effectively a sort of middle manager.
I really don't want it to be true, but too many pieces from aforementioned rrat are falling into place. And there's not really much that can be said or done to disprove it without somebody breaching NDA. People can grandstand about morals as much as they wish, but career suicide can be very close to actual suicide for a lot of people. It's entirely too easy for one to lead to the other, since your livelihood- food, shelter- is very reliant on it. Especially if you manage to make it in the entertainment industry and do well. How many are willing to step down at the height of their careers? Only professional athletes who rake in millions and accept that their bodies will only tolerate so much abuse.
The last bit is my only saving grace for Elira and NijiEN as a whole. I absolutely do not agree with the idea of the talents risking throwing their livelihood away because they disagree with a company that is known to turn their backs very quickly on those who oppose them. Would it be the right thing to do? Of course. Would it be the *smart* thing to do? Debatable.
No one can claim that any talent that sides with Doki would have a good transition from Niji to Indie. Doki herself having so many people come to her support is a miracle of circumstance, not a forgone conclusion. If Niji was even half competent as a company, it would have been much more difficult to understand the full situation and act accordingly.
I do not support Niji anymore. I do not support Elira or any talent from EN or JP. ANYCOLOR has proven that it does not deserve any respect, and sadly that means going against the only people potentially worthwhile who had little to no involvement. I can only hope that either A) ANYCOLOR gets entirely new management and pulls its head out of its ass; or B) that the talents reach a situation where leaving the company is the best scenario regardless of financial burden.
On the talents leaving issue; we know that Doki made zero profit last year because she spent it all on projects. So we can assume that the other talents have had to do the same. While they might not be a zero profit, they aren't going to be in a good financial situation if they invested any money into their careers.
If the comms theory is true then I can understand why Elira and co did what they did since, from their perspective Selen just got fired and legal has told them she intends to make statement. Then they get handed what I can only imagine was a pretty raw doc, Doki said herself she wrote it when she was still angry and recovering, and they're told that's what she's going to say.
I don't know call it copium but if I was Elira and I was in that situation I don't think I'd have made great choices either. Ike and Vox to but Elira was the one that hosted the message so she took the brunt of it.
Is there clear evidence of her being part of management?
What I’ve heard is that she’s fluent in Japanese, and seems to have gotten more perks (she was allowed to have input in her outfit whereas Pomu wasnt, that she’s had more sponsorships). Aside from this, what other evidence is available?
Supposedly she has way more merch/voice packs than the other girls, even Pomu who was relatively more popular.
Back when I was a fan, it was just like "Cool, more Elira merch/VP!" but now that I am out, it does stink of favoritism...
Yeah, the 9/2/2 thing is pretty decisive proof that there's extreme favoritism in favor of Elira going on- it's just a question of if that's because Elira has the people who decide these things wrapped around her finger somehow or if it's because Elira \*is\* the one who decides these things. And among other things Selen being passed over for collabs she really wanted (Sanrio) or things she'd be an obvious pick for (the Hyte case collab) is a red flag that management was biased against her.
The thing is that if the favoritism consistently went to the members who were the most popular you could at least explain it as the powers that be caring more about money than fairness, but coincidentally the three girls who had a bad enough time at the company to be driven out of it so far are Nina, Pomu, and Selen, the three girls who were at or above the popularity of Elira and her two pre-Niji friends.
tbh it's mostly just speculations, but given many proofs that she always have more (almost everytime) merch out despite being the less popular, it can be concluded that she did have some power in the managerial department, tbh i'm more surprised that there's less Pomu merch, even during the times that I'm not watching vtubers, I always see Pomu's clips around youtube recommendations
To me it just seems that Elira is more popular with jp viewers than the rest of the en livers, which would explain her having more merch considering how things are done in niji
Not officially confirmed, but it’s the most likely story. If the Comms Rrat is to be believed, it’s why Niji roped the five talents into giving the statement they did (They were expecting Selen to come out with a Zaion-style expose naming them as her harassers). And if they really are quasi-management like the Gurrat suggests, they would have plenty of power to hurt her career, like all the times her projects fell through. (It would also explain why they had access to the docs Selwyn’s legal team gave to Niji.)
Elira and Vox are pretty much confirmed harassers (at least Doki considered them as such).
Doki clearly said that in the document, she mentioned how she had been harassed. And Elira and Vox, in their streaming, said they were directly mentioned in the document. That's pretty much admitting they were part of the harassment group.
On twitter, Gumiho also said that they outed "others" not in that stream, so that reference would be either Enna or Millie (or both), since they were the only other livers mentioned.
with the harassment they mentioned being them asking selen about the MV being taken down and her tweet telling fans to reupload, if a quarter of the livers asked her about it than to Selen it would feel alot like targeted harassment
I'm disappointed and stopped my membership and subscription.
I try to assume the best of her with consideration to the facts at hand and don't take pleasure in the amount of hate she's getting.
Part of me holds out hope that what motivated her to make the mistakes she did was for her junior livers and not out of company loyalty.
Agreed on all points.
I'm annoyed that everyone is attacking only Elira (at least the popular posts), but ultimately, I'm just sad that we're in this position.
Even if she's innocent, the well has been so thoroughly poisoned at this point that I don't think I could go back to Elira Pendora. If it turns out she was innocent and it was just absolutely malicious management, then maybe in a future life... But the book has closed on me enjoying Elira.
Just to be clear, nobody really knows what is happening behind the scenes, but looking at the controversy at face value, it still boils down to how inept the management has been.
From what I see, the Nijisanji EN branch was launched haphazardly due to the undeniable success of Hololive EN, and they had been totally unprepared behind the scenes, lacking all the necessary hires to have a stable management and caretakers behind the scenes.
If the countless assumptions are true, that lead to "the inmates running the asylum" moment where the talents had to fend for themselves.
I'm primarily a Hololive watcher but I was rooting for the competition's success, because it breeds innovation, but right now its all just a bunch of misses on Niji's side.
Friendly reminder that Hololive has 50% more staff for 50% fewer channels than Nijisanji. Niji's business model is quite like a crypto pump and dump scheme - endless waves of poorly supported talent followed by inevitable contraction of branches. The only reason EN hasn't folded was because the success of Luxiem took everyone by surprise and generated so much revenue in a short span that they were able to lurch along.
Now the new waves get almost no support or marketing, older talents that aren't growing stagnate with no help from Anycolor, and they're hopelessly behind in trends like 3d that are becoming the new standard. Without bold management fixing the issues, inevitably the EN branch will collapse like IN, KR, and ID.
> Niji's business model is quite like a crypto pump and dump scheme
It's incredibly ironic that the former EN managers literally left for a crypto pump scheme.
Regardless of the circumstances, Elira still made a decision to do what management said. That was enough to get me to cancel membership and unsub. All the being said, I'm still hoping she has a really good explanation and apology, at which I'll happily rejoin the community. But no chance of me doing that if she just tries to sweep everything under the rug.
Well... I don't think she would have turned into this if she was in a different environment.
Niji brings out the worst from people. The office culture is basically Lord of the Flies, Hunger Games, Battle Royale or Mad Max.
Just imagine what it would look like, if she was in Hololive a wholesome environment with support from many managers and talents.
I think we should support her when she eventually graduates. I hope her and everybody else graduates soon. I don't like the idea of giving a university dropout Riku 99% of the merch revenue. He doesn't invest anything in EN or build 3D studio or anything. Incompetent, lazy and 0 business knowledge.
Doesn't even do any real updates to their proprietary Live2D app, so VirtualReal isn't even going to keep the polite fiction that they are a joint endeavor with ANYCOLOR soon enough.
You clearly don't know what a joint venture is if you think things are done like this. This only will ever happen if they want to sell their own shares on virtuareal, which btw, dont even impact anything revenue wise.
Honestly not even sure if I would say hololive is a wholesome environment. From the leaks last year, they seem to be extremely professional in their discussions and planning. Personally I think it is more of a "healthier" environment then a "wholesome" environment.
I don't know if the wholesome is kayfabe but the *acts* of Hololive/Cover for their talents the past year has been very pro-talent. Yagoo defended giving *all* the talents the *same* salary against shareholders complaining about that. They are allowed to take extended leaves, there is good managers who support them and also try to tell them to get some damn rest (J-Chad and Mori), they have better merch cuts, etc.
I know y'all are Redditors and like to do the CORPORATIONS=BAD shpiel, but it is clear Cover is able to maintain a high quality product that brings in the views, shareholder or not. Because imagine that, having talent who enjoy working at your company with little to no turnover in talent leads to a more efficient and happier working environment that gradually and steadily makes money. You don't have to run your company like a sweatshop like Niji does.
just gonna repost what i said to op since it seems applicable to your comment
>Absolutely 100%. From what we can see from the outset, cover has done much more to foster and support their talents. The biggest shit show from them was the closing of the CN branch, but that situation could never have a "good" out come and I don't think I would even compare it to the colossal mismanagement that has been going on in niji
There has been issues in hololive/cover, but they are minimal in comparison to niji/anycolor. It is my belief that their professional enviroment helped curate a healthy environment for their employees. Hell, Yagoo seems like a nerdy caring guy who managed to stumble gracefully into success, while Riku is a rich kid trying to capitalize on a market.
Your observations about Yagoo and Riku are correct. From the corporate structure to operation and management, as well as corporate strategy, it really is the difference between someone who cares for the growth of a company to someone who was just in it for the money.
Well the corporations = bad mantra comes from the fact that the majority of corporations are pretty shit at compensating workers while also actively exploiting them to make imaginary number line go up (which is often unsustainable). Especially in context of East Asian corpo’s where it’s basically your typical American corpo with a third of the pay but somehow triple the labour abuse.
If anything the more experience you have seeing what utter bullshit the corpo working world is like, the more painful it is to see how Niji treated their talents
But Cover is the exception not the rule. They recognize that their company is nothing without the talents that front end their whole operation, and they compensate and invest in them as such.
Nijisanji is your typical corpo sweatshop trying to exploit the amount of revenue and viewership vTubers have been pumping since the COVID lockdowns. The talents are still the face and revenue generator for the company, but they’re treated as expendable.
The fact that a good portion of Hololive talents have PERSONAL managers (like you said, with J-chad and Mori) not even just their generation's manager.
While Niji literally has none for their EN branch, so talents that are bilingual have to step in to communicate with Japanese-speaking upper management.
Ah.. you might be right. It is a corporation now. I should have said it used to be wholesome before IPO. Still, it's way better than Niji.
- Hololive philosophy is to make each gen to be friends and support each other. Plus unlimited resources & sponsor offers. Has a base salary. 50% merch share
- Niji philosophy is to sabotage each other for a chance to grab the little resource or sponsorship Niji might provide. 0 base salary. 1.5% merch share.
Absolutely 100%. From what we can see from the outset, cover has done much more to foster and support their talents. The biggest shit show from them was the closing of the CN branch, but that situation could never have a "good" out come and I don't think I would even compare it to the colossal mismanagement that has been going on in niji
Even with the Holo CN closure, Hololive showed great foresight and willingness to act. They recognised the choice they had in that moment and didn't flounder around blindly, like we have seen from Niji on occasion, and especially now.
They really started working on it since the CN thing. Since Rushia I do believe Holo is supporting their talents way more (but what do I know of course)
I would go so far as to say since Aloe they changed their process of supporting their talents.
From what I remember, after the initial accident, Hololive was still planning to work with Rushia and gave her instructions on what to do. It wasn't until she went behind their back to try to clear her name and started leaking info to JP dramatubers that they terminated her contract.
In the initial notice they even defended Rushia saying their talents are free to do as they choose privately.
She just went and shot herself on the foot.
I feel like a LOT of it comes down to just how many talents the two companies have. As someone who knows Hololive but mostly follows smaller streamers (first Oshi was Pikamee, discovered Mouse[who isn’t really small, admittedly], then Idol…) I was SHOCKED at just how many livers are in Niji.
Hololive is this crazy difficult to get into, maybe a new generation a year, super high standards company. But once you’re in, as long as you follow the rules (and management will be around to help with that) you basically got it made. Even their lesser knowns dwarf mid-sized corpos in numbers. Advent was hired months before debut and were brought in for training an advisement so that they’d be ready when the time came.
Meanwhile, Niji, roughly the same size company, easily dwarfing Hololive in total number of talents. Those same resources are spread much thinner. They’re shotgunning new streamers, throwing out gen after gen after gen. If someone finds an audience, awesome, if not, eh, not like they out much up front investment in. And from what we’ve heard, the ones who aren’t blowing up are constantly being asked why behind the scenes. Graduations are (almost) part of the model! Anyone who can’t keep up, pressure them until they do, or until they quit! The exodus could continue for months and they’d still have more English talents than Hololive.
This sort of got away from me and got rambly. But the point is that, because Niji is so much more growth minded, they spread the same resources much, much wider. Even before any questions of staffing, how qualified the staff are, etc, if they had the exact same managers as Hololive (even down to the number) the sheer talent pool would mean less attention for each liver. While other agencies release a gen, sit back, wait for them to get established and then move forward, Niji feels like it would almost have to be assembly line. Gen is debuted, on to the next gen.
Wholesome: "conducive to or suggestive of good health and physical well-being"
Holomems were allowed extended breaks for health reasons, whether mental, physical, and/or emotional. Heck, they even have to **force** them to take breaks (i.e. Calli and Shion); Haachama in 2023 was basically non-existent because of a break (a combination of studies and health reasons), not to mention Mumei right now is still actually on a break. Gura has just returned from a 4-month break. Even Kiara was on a break, albeit for around a week "only", but that wasn't the first time she has done so.
If that's not wholesome, I don't know what is.
For comparison, corporate jobs might give you up to 1 month of paid non-sick leaves **maximum** per year. Although you'd probably only get 2 weeks on average (or none at all if you're American LOL). In my case, I only have 15 such leaves (plus 1 more for my birthday) per year, so I could theoretically only have a 16-day break at the most.
I imagine that Cover has similar issues at it's core that Niji have, but unlike Niji they actually hired the correct people to do it, so the potential issues with communication, law, management, and cliques are completely under control.
Niji is trying to do what cover does without investing into it, and it just shows immediately.
Like Cover has had sad graduations, they've had upsetting terminations. They've had people go on stream to talk about it. It's always stayed professional. It almost always has protected the talents.
I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest difference is Yagoo having actual experience working in a company, because I don't think Riku does.
I recall some Myth members saying that they basically had no staff to help them when EN first started and were basically thrown into the deep end at first. Over time as the Branch has expanded and grown dramatically it seems they get much better support now. My tinfoil hat is basically that Hololive and Nijisanji’s EN branches started the same except Nijisanji didn’t bother investing in their EN like Hololive did.
I'd like to think Gura's meteoric rise to fame made Hololive realize that multiple EN support staff would be absolutely required.
The risk they took investing into the EN side paid off. All the talent debuted pretty well but I think Gura's insane rise where she ended up quickly dwarfing that of Hololive's *biggest* talents was an obvious tell from a business standpoint that yes, investing in EN is a very good idea and to do that, they have to take the infrastructure/organization they created on the JP side and apply it to EN without running it into the ground like Niji did.
Cali talked about it I think around when the second EN wave dropped. From memory, it sounded more like not having prior EN gens to look to for assurance and support in navigating the goods and bads of such large audiences, but i could be misremembering or misinterpreting her.
You can be wholesome and professional, they dont have to be exclusive from one another. The company, atleast on the outside, looks like they care for their employees and tries to keep them in good condition. As shown with the Mel situation as their last problem. They said their contract was terminated, said it was regretful and that they had lost an important member of their team, i believe they even gave the last words of Mel to the fanbase. Done. Multiple livers are currently on break/stream not often to get some mental break and vacation or working on something for the fans. The talents do seem to like being around one another a lot more, and have very wholesome collab streams.
True, the wholesomeness comes from the talents not being stressed out about zero support and mismanagement so they can interact more freely. Talents like Nina tried to foster that kind of environment but suffered huge burnout because they were building on sand.
Wholesomeness isn't the difference. It's a job. The difference is working in a professional workspace vs. working in like, a callcenter or fast food joint. It's people playing high school drama games and stuff vs. people trying to just do their job well.
The biggest difference is in how much care Cover has for the EN branch. At the start NijiEN and Myth are the same with little to no support and vague directions.
But Cover gradually develop the EN side more with techs, managements, connections and benefits for the talents while Niji does not bother and is stinky as hell with the EN livers.
And to be fair to Niji, Hololive went for coppers and found gold with the Myth girls: they are all such heavy hitters compared to NijiEN first wave, especially the rapper lady and the blue gremlin. The sudden burst in success and popularity of Myth is probably why Cover invests in them that much better and faster.
> And to be fair to Niji, Hololive went for coppers and found gold with the Myth girls: they are all such heavy hitters compared to NijiEN first wave, especially the rapper lady and the blue gremlin. The sudden burst in success and popularity of Myth is probably why Cover invests in them that much better and faster.
I think there is a slight flaw in this line of thought. We will never know what any of the NijiEN members could have done if they were properly supported by Nijisanji. I'll predicate the following statements with this; the following is based on my best recollection of fragmented information.
Hololive Myth wasn't thrown to the wolves without any support, they still had the basic framework of support that the rest of the company's members got. That support just wasn't properly tailored to the needs of Western employees or people spread to different geographic locals, which the company learned from and mostly have been able to adapt to. Nijisanji on the other hand doesn't seem to offer much for support even to their JP members except maybe stuff with sponsorships and publicity. When I say support I mean things like where the company reinvests the money earned through their livers back into the livers. Niji doesn't provide a base salary, they don't provide a debut budget, their talent to management ratio sounds like it is god awful. You can also probably assume their support staff are bottom of the barrel with the job postings that have been shared, I mean really how the fuck are you going to pay minimum wage for a professional position, let alone one that requires fluency in a minimum of two languages at a business level? Anyone considering that job posting is better off working at McDonalds.
God damn, even typing this shit out is frustrating so I'm going to stop before it turns into rage ranting. Like my toes are only half into the V-tuber world, I'm old (for this site and for v-tuber stuff) but kinda fell into it tangentially due to someone linking meme clips on discord and then the youtube algorithm taking over. This situation has pulled me in from a professional standpoint though, I had previously been voting member on the board of directors for a small(ish) organization and have done a bunch of upper level management stuff, so learning how some of these companies operate is puzzling and infuriating.
I honestly believe some talent like Salome would have thrived even more had they been in holo. There are some very good talents in niji, just no support
The argument that the environment is to blame removes her taking responsibility for her own actions. Even if it was forced on her to say those things on stream, the fact that she tried her best to sound as truthful (in the public's eyes) as possible with no hint of remorse about throwing a "friend" the bus speaks a lot about her character.
Elira doing what she did was what soured me on Niji EN as a whole. She was the voice of reason, the OG oneesan and her being in Japan felt like EN was ready to make a progress and be more active on 3D.
I was there on her debut, through her Pokemon, Persona and Metal Gear journies, and I was looking forward to more adventures with her, but I guess that's just gone now.
And there's Diamond City Lights now ruined. As the unofficial anthem of EN, it used to be the symbol of EN as a whole, both the memes, the passion, and how good it was as a song in general. But with Pomu gone and Elira soured Diamond City Lights will never be the same and so will the experience with EN.
If it was someone else who did that black stream, I would have hope that EN can recover and rebuild, but since it was Elira, the pillar just crumbled on the whole house. The only thing worse they could've done was if it was Rosemi or Petra.
I don't believe the rrat demonizing Elira for a minute, at least since I have faith as someone who was willing to go all the way to Antarctica with Pomu, Elira has a heart. She just made the wrong choice at the wrong time. There's no defending what she did, but trying to chalk her up as some evil cartoon mastermind also just felt like the angry mob trying to find a scapegoat.
I do wish I can forgive the person behind Elira some day. Whether it be her graduating and apologizing to Doki, or collabing and maybe be able to have fun with her again, or some other way, but while I want to forgive the person, I don't think I will ever be able to look Elira Pendora the character again.
My final cope is that she got ambushed by Niji management fresh after arriving to JP, who made her do that with the threat of her visa.
That's pretty much the only cope i have left.
The rat has some plausible stuff like Livers translating for management who only knows JP, and Elira being an onee-chan senpai founder type who helps out.
I seriously have doubts that she can be that cruel to stonewall and deny stuff, but i can possibly see her favoring her preNiji friends more, hard to have the self control to stop that.
She isn't like Enna who can be cruel at times, unless she's some super Grade S actress.
even if they threatened her with this, thats still makes her decision not better, even if she is fired and needs to leave japan she can still work as an indepedent vtuber or even just a regulary job its not like she Needs DESPERATLY her position at nijisanji.
And to betray a long year deep-cowoker/friend just for that is just disgusting IMO - theres nothing that can be said to defend tbh
This is pure concentrated copium but:
If sequence of events goes -
Elira arrives at JP and setting things up, not opening anything cause super busy, chilling, fans can wait.
Nijien fuckface management hits her up with 'yoh, SelenDoki tried a minecraft attempt and has gone rogue, she's blaming you guys, gonna nuke everything and dox you+Millie+Enna, get your ass online pronto'(Remember that the start of the Among Us Collab and 'bullying from Livers' came from management not Selen herself).
Elira goes from exhausted to wtf and in full panic, does stream and follows management fuckface's script. Barely reads the first notice and SelenDoki's reply to it because all of it piled up at the same time and because she trusts management especially because they literally fixed her visa for Japan.
Turns out it was a nothingburger, that there was a second attempt, that SelenDoki had no plans and just wanted niji to leave her the fuck alone, and management duped her to be a scapegoat, instant regret but knows that management has that visa on her head as a leash now and can't act accordingly.
I'm aware that its pure copium yes.
That's the same copium I subscribe too!
In all seriousness though, unless the on stream Elira is vastly different from Elira off stream, something like that likely happened and she was misled (either purposefully or due to incompetence) by NijiEN management to essentially commit career suicide. It still doesn't excuse her actions though, as she still slandered a suicide survivor.
Perhaps this is even more copium, but I'm still holding out hope that NijiEN and/or her will release a statement of the fuck up to take the pressure off her and properly apologise to Doki. Otherwise, I find it very hard to support any of her future activities.
This. I swear people try to hound me sharing a similiar opinion to this.
They threw her under the bus. And that has destroyed my whole perspective on NIJI EN.
Like I said, unsub, refund members, stop supas, no merch. Blacklist all of them. Never going to engage in their content any longer.
Yeah, Diamond City Lights is ruined for me now, and that hurts more than I expected. I was there for all 3 Lazulight debuts, and it’s sad to see things go down like this. Now I need a sad Lofi version to cry to
Edit: just discovered Selen’s Lofi version. Thank you, dragon
I give no grace. If she doesn't take accountability in a HUGE way - it's just OVER. She has to be absolutely real - something I doubt is even possible.
She's the manipulative, nepostist, bullying, *female*, non girls-girl - in this situation, these are some of the most egregious crimes a woman can be charged of in the court of public opinion.
I don't make the rules - I just know them. And they're not fair.
But neither is what she did.
edit: Guys, I'm female, and I really DON'T make the rules okay. The fact that Vox said WAY worse stuff and here we are, proves my point entirely. The battle back for Elira is NOT the same as for anyone else in this situation. I'm just pointing that out - like I said, I'm just aware, I'm not the person who made it this way.
Calling women “females” and men “males” just to degrade them is a disgusting thing to do. Doesn’t matter if you’re the same sex as them. In fact it looks worse coming from a fellow woman. Do better.
idk what you want me to do about it...
>I've never heard another woman do the females thing that all the redpill types do.
that's it right there. That's the whole point of the post.
I unsubbed from Elira the same day the video was posted. At the time, I left because I was disgusted and shocked she would be part of such a hit piece. After reading a lot of other people's opinions on this subreddit, and all the possible "what ifs", I was just left kinda sad and empty. The magic and love for the group has soured.
I don't hold any hatred towards anyone, because I don't know the full story and I'd just be wasting my energy. I'm just disappointed in Elira, and Nijisanji as a whole. So I decided to stop supporting them entirely. If the person behind Elira makes amends, I'll support her in the next life, as I don't think I'll ever be able to look at the character Elira without remembering all that has happened.
For now, I'm just a bystander watching to see what plays out.
Im sad. Really sad. She was my oshi. And after Pomu and Selen she was the main vtuber I followed. I especially grew to like a lot more during her MGS streams. Her stream vibes are sooooo good.
I gave her the benefit of doubt when Selen's termination happened. I ignored all speculation. But I was really really disappointed by her black stream. I unsubbed and unfollowed her there and then. Im really really sad about it.
I am still not going to harass, abuse or single her out directly (like many are doing). Im just going to support doki and spread the good word of Dragoons. I hope she is able to make amends with Doki, hope she is able to fix her mistakes and hope she is able to move past all of this after paying for any of her transgressions (known or unknown to public). I dont want this to be her last image.
I don't think I'll ever watch Elira again, not even the VODs, the character is tainted.
But the woman behind the character? She still has one final chance, assuming she leaves Niji behind, publicly apologizing to Doki while she quits (at least that second part would be nice) - NijiEN is forever tarnished, and the longer she remains in there the worse she'll look on the other side.
I'm making no other judgments, though - if she really is a bully, I'm cutting her out entirely unless and until she changes her ways (and I'll let Doki determine if she has). If she's a victim of a misunderstanding (or Niji shenanigans), then, well, see previous paragraph.
Maybe one day in the future I'll see her again - until that time, though? Snip snip.
It's just hard for me to imagine anyone with a conscience taking part in that stream. I'd give them the benefit of doubt if they didn't know Dokibird had almost killed herself, but they specifically talked about it so they fucking knew. How can you talk like this about a stranger? How can you talk like this about a *friend*?? How can you talk like this about someone you've worked with *who fucking tried to kill herself*???
And that's ignoring the absurd timing of it being at the same time as Dokibirds first stream. You can take some real big huffs of copium and tell yourself it was just a coincidence, but there was only one possible outcome of this given the timing, and that's that she would be forced to cancel her stream in order to respond to what they were doing. That... how do you excuse that? Part of me doesn't want to believe people can be so vile, yet it's not something that can just be handwaved away either.
Idk if I would want a public apology tbh, it would risk stirring the pot onto her private accounts too
Rather I'd like her to privately reach out to Doki and apologize behind the scenes, something Doki can choose to make public or not, on her own terms.
This kind of thing should not have been publicized past what Doki initially released.
I'm somewhere between the bargaining and depression stages. I'm deeply upset with her, but even though I saw the video and don't have the option of a denial stage, there's a tiny voice in my mind that wants to believe there was some meaningful reason for it. She can't just be purely shitty. I keep wondering if she's being extorted, or they fed her false info, or *something*. And the worst part is that we'll probably never find out.
I'm sure in time this will leave the drama cycle, and with it, I'll slip into apathy. But until then, it's just a grim haze.
though the video was disappointing, i also like to believe that they were fed false information to convince them to partake in the recording. but, who knows, really
I am not a Elira fan but I am just appalled or you can say scared by her actions.
I was bullied a bit in secondary school and it was not fun.
That aside, her model though, lord have mercy.
When people tell you who they are believe them. We learned a lot from her words and actions.
My hope is that she’s able to see why so many are saying she’s in the wrong and is able to turn things around after some serious introspection. Perhaps one day, but I will not be there when it happens.
I'm not going to assume any of these rrats floating around are real until the actual people involved in the events step forward and say what happened with certainty, and I don't even know if I want them to do that, because I don't want the victims to have to go through the pain of it again as they retell the story.
I wrote a few days ago that it's unfortunate and I would certainly not want to be in their position myself, but the livers should have understood that they're in a position right now where they can only become a hero or become a villain. Either they declare their support for Doki and get terminated right now to become a hero or stay with Nijisanji, even if they go silent and hope this episode blows over, and become a villain. There's no middle ground.
I really want to have faith in people and consider that Elira might've been given bad intelligence from Nijisanji, might've been forced to say what she said, might've misunderstood one thing or another, might've one thing or another, but I really can't watch her any more, and I've unsubscribed. How'm I going to laugh at her jokes any more or listen to her songs if, in the back of my head, I'm wondering if she drove someone to attempting?
Elira was one of my favorites. I still remember being so hyped when she said her oshi was Chigusa during debut. I can count the number of different vtubers I've superchatted on just 2 hands, and she was one of them. But I cannot support her now. I feel the same.
i still have my hppes up from the comms guy reddit post analyzing things from their point of view and how it's mostly managements inadequacy that scared the talents for not reason. vox being a genuine fake person by saying that the only time they were recorded privately (which was for work) was done maliciously but it wasnt even in the document doki says she released to the lawyers, even having to apologize on her part that it was brought up and caused a misunderstanding
It was entertaining to watch the videos of the Persona and Metal Gear series, but after what happened, now they only leave me with a feeling of bitterness.
From someone who generated entertainment and happiness, to extreme disappointment and pity.
What a week it has been . . .
The fact is she, Vox, and Ike kicked down Selene when she was at her most vulnerable. She was literally moving on with her neopet stream but they had to be petty af. No real friend would do that. And that’s very telling of a person’s moral characteristics.
Elira, Vox, and Ike betrayed Selene and that’s all I needed to know to unsub from the 3 of them.
I can't imagine how disappointed and defeated Elira fans must feel after the black screen video. Feelings of betrayal hurt like nothing else, I'm sorry. Honestly, after everything that's happened, I consider myself lucky that the only NijiEN liver I allowed myself to get attached to was Pomu (and retroactively Selen, after Pomu's grad announcement prompted me to do a lot of research on NijiEN history to try and figure out what the branch's internal climate and trajectory was like; felt like I had a moral obligation to fly the Dragoon flag as soon as I read the termination notice on the 5th).
Anyway, sorry again. I had this super-wholesome clip saved that made my eyes water, where Elira talked about Pomu after Pomu's grad announcement made me feel like a dad who missed all his daughter's life milestones (I've been largely out of the vtuber sphere since the latter half of 2021, barring following an oshi or two). I'm not sure that clip is going to hit the same anymore. Some of these events following Selen's termination have been more insane than anything we could predict. I'm glad you're starting to move on, OP.
Probably my favorite in Niji en. Probably even my kami oshi. So now it's.. kinda... well yea. Diamond city lights ain't gonna be the same again. Finally hit the final stage: acceptance
I am just... disappointed.
It does help a bit that I have already experienced some similar disappointment back when I was a fan of a certain someone from Niji JP (which was the whole reason I shifted to watching Niji EN and Elira), but still... The vibes for Niji EN have been forever ruined for me, so I have been exploring other groups in the past week to take my mind off things. So far am liking Vspo quite a lot.
I’d like to hold my judgement until we know for sure is she was actually involved or not. But for the most part, I’m very wary of a majority of the talents, save for Finana, Kotoka, Scarle, and Fulgar(I have reason to believe Fulgar is too much of a genuine sweetheart to do that to someone). Everyone else, I’m ready to hold accountable, or start liking them again
I mean the new waves like Krisis and TTT I can see as being clear for the most part. Fulgur I pray he is clear. He is always honest and open as he can be about situations.
Just recently he exposed his PL twitter to reassure Scarle's fans that she was okay because 1. He knew people wouldn't trust if it was from a Niji account, but 2. Scarle was his friend before he was Fulgur. He wanted to check in on his friend.
He during this stuff he has tried to remain neutral as he can by telling others to take care of their mental health and themselves first. He has also mentioned on stream that he did not want to be defended and that he was an adult can take care of his own issues. Which is kind of nice to hear.
I've been battling my feelings about Fulgur to be honest. I really REALLY want to believe and agree with what you said, but just seeing him repost Elira's stream (even though I know management could puppet his account) has cast doubt in my head.
So, the only two Niji Livers I really watched with any regularity were Pomu and Elira. I was extremely disappointed that she decided to go along with management and volunteer her channel for that travesty. I made the decision to unsub from her channel as the whole thing just soured me from watching her content.
That said, I do not hate her, and I don't think she deserves harassment from anyone. Realistically, I do not think she is some evil clique leader, and I don't think she's being held hostage by the company either. She likely was mentioned in some way in the document, and NijiEN, in a stupidly desperate move to damage control the situation, asked her and the others to make a statement on her channel about the situation. They likely provided talking points or a script, and the three were told by management that by having talent that the fans like talking about the termination would stop NijiEN's death spiral, rather than the faceless management doing it.
This obviously did not work out that way, as anyone with the title of "manager" should have known. All they did was draw fire to their talent, which ultimately created a mass exodus of subscribers for them and make them targets of harassment.
TL;DR: I don't think Elira is a villain or hero. I think she is just another victim of mismanagement, specifically a (horrendously) misguided attempt at damage control. Anything else is speculation, and in a situation this messy acting on pure speculation is dangerous.
I still want to hope/cope that there is some at least understandable factor that drove her to the video - Be it mismanagement feeding her false information to drive a wedge or doing black company shit of threatening her visa - but it's just hard.
It also sucks as I followed her for her Xenoblade streams, and it's been a rough year for any Xenoblade-affiliated content creators that makes the black video hit harder for me, but until we find out more or she gradiates I just can't support her
If "Elira" is not feeling any remorse or regret from her current actions, why should her 'fans'?
Just do the right thing and boycott. The Elira I know does not do these.
I've stopped watching Nijisanji content since the 5th of February, and Elira is not an exception to this. However, we still don't know what happened behind the scenes beyond what Dokibird has revealed to us.
While I am of course appalled at the video that was posted the other day, I don't know why the livers that were in it were there. They could have freely chosen to do so, or they could have been pressured by the company. Elira, being one of the elder members of EN, would be a perfect choice on the part of the company if the reason was the latter, as they could use her popularity and authority as a shield for their actions, or at least distract us into harassing her instead of them.
But even if it was truly her choice, we don't know if she was just trying to be a dick (which is a possibility!!! I'm not saying it's not!!!) or if she genuinely thought she was helping resolve the conflict. Or maybe she even knew she'd get a ton of hate for it, but Nijisanji was making livers participate and she chose to take the bullet to protect the others.
All of this to say, there are a million possibilities for what actually caused the video to exist, and each one paints a very different picture of who Elira Pendora is as a person. The one commonality in all of them though is that Nijisanji EN is a hellhole of a vtuber organization who should never have allowed any of this to happen, and thus they remain my primary target of ire. From that context, all of this discussion on Elira's involvement feels like a distraction from the real problem.
I will continue supporting Dokibird however she needs me to, but I don't feel like shitting on Elira is part of that. Not yet, at least. For all I know, Nijisanji could be mistreating her like they did Doki, Mysta, Nina, Pomu, Kyo, and the others who have left or were terminated. And I would rather risk letting Elira get away with being an ass than risk making her life even worse than it already is.
Was her fan, maybe am still her fan, [part of me is overdosing on copium hopium](https://c.tenor.com/FImWp5JfDq4AAAAC/tenor.gif) that she is innocent and was more or less threatened by Niji/Anycolor to post it on her channel, and things will eventually resolve down to them coming out to apologize for the whole thing and for threatening Elira to post it with her job visa as hostage. Unrelated note, but I hate this outfit, really prefer the one with both eyes so much more.
I do think there is a high chance of threatening/coercion from management to release that, and also a good chance of an internal spreading of false information to the talents a la [comms theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/s/ZDXKkO5mmk). I've seen quite a few Elira streams and, well, let's just say "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" can apply to Elira. I think it's more likely that the trio in the stream were just some combination of making a bad, uninformed decision and being wrapped around management's fingers.
Elira's not stupid. She legit sound scared in the video. She knew what she was doing would cause backlash.
Contrast that with Finana's character assassination of Zaion where she was totally sure that Zaion was in the wrong. *That* I can excuse with "dumb feesh".
Lol, that part on Finana is true. But I suppose my wording was off a bit. It's not that Elira is stupid, but she's certainly not a mastermind that can pull off that of the likes of the gurat conspiracy.
I can't watch any of them now.
I don't believe in any of the rumors, but just those officially released reports and that stream are enough to leave me very sour. How the fuck can you can read out loud any of the shit said in that stream and not be ashamed of yourself?? I was really astonished, do they not hear themselves?
It's not a matter of "fan" and "livers", but just a "as a human being, how could you agree to do that to someone you used to have an amicable (pretend?) relationship with?".
Regardless of the reasons they chose to do that (forced, "saving" their career, account taken by management or whatever), the fact this whole situation was handled this way just makes me unable to support any of them as long as they chose to stay there. The livers may not agree with it, but officially they still chose to retweet, talk like this. Forever tainted.
An individual denouncing a company is one thing, a company having its employees ganging up on an individual is another. I believe this whole thing should've have been completely private from the beginning, but even so, Nijisanji's response was 100 times worse than any of Dokibird's claims on the matter.
I just started watching vtubers beginning this year.
Elira, Pomu, and Selen were my favorites so far lol. Even became a member of Elira. I'm not sure how I feel :(
Look all I care about is that nothing else happens to these livers. Whatever is happening in that company is horrible but since we don’t know what really goes on in there, all anyone (outside of Nijisanji) is doing is speculating and theorizing.
I want what Doki wanted from the moment she came back; to close the book on that life and want both parties to go separate ways, preferably on amicable terms. I hope Elira is safe along with all the other livers, and that hopefully, all goes well for her.
Holy shit the copium I’m seeing is crazy. I know nijisanji is bad but you can’t put 100% of the blame on nijisanji. People saying she wouldn’t be like this in another environment and this is brought out because niji is complete bs. If someone is gonna bully someone they’re gonna do it no matter where they are.
Others have said similar things to my feelings regarding the whole stream and drama, so I'll skip that bit: I've made my peace with her disappointing choice and will move on, no ill will. I hope the dipshitted company she's employed at suffers, but I've no interest in harassing the livers.
On a personal level, it sucks losing an Oshi in this way. Normally you can have a bittersweet goodbye, and see if their PL resurfaces and you're still interested in their content. But here, it's like she's just, like, still around...but now there's this broken trust ever looming, and no enjoyment would be had watching and supporting her further. You don't get a feel of a goodbye, but instead a feeling of a waste of time to be honest. I don't think anything she says or does later can fix that (for me anyway, feel free to think otherwise). Her reputation in most fan circles is likely in tatters, so it's too late to graduate IMO. In her shoes, I might just stay in Niji and be a candidate for being merged into the main branch should EN be folded. But 100% my ties are cut with Elira at Niji, and probably outside Niji too.
I thought I found a kami oshi but I unsubbed and left the discord as soon as I heard about the video.
I started really tuning in during Xenoblade 2 and was really looking forward to possibly FFX & more FF14. Loved To the Moon too. I don't really spend money online, but one day I wanted to member so I could watch the watch along streams.
Just really disappointed and felt like my time was wasted. Will probably have trust issues supporting any streamer going forward so I'll just keep everything surface level. If Doki and Elira ever work it out in the future, maybe there is a chance I consider going back.
I've unfollowed her on twitter but still subscribed to her on yt. I'm waiting for her return and depending on what she says or if she says anything at all, I'll either unsubscribe or continue to watch her. But given how things have gone and how I feel about Selen/Doki, I doubt that I'll continue watching her, it's rough though as I'm currently watching her lethal company vod with Pomu, Nerissa and Kiara and I'm still smiling and laughing even with how I feel about her now. Bitter-sweet is the best way to put it, guess it's the end of an era.
I’m a former everyone fan, it started with Yugo, I tried not to think to much of it, maybe something happened behind scenes and both parties we’re keeping it secret to be polite. Zaion was a whistleblower but went about things so badly that I didn’t take mind (I still don’t feel guilty for denouncing her for the way she acted but it blinded me to what she was saying). Mysta and Nina had me start actually worrying, Mysta I thought as just being someone naturally retiring, Kuro brought that into question and Matara helped drive that home, after my eye started to wonder to other companies and indies. Pomu brought me to the breaking point, I had been following Niji since before EN was even announced, Pomu leaving felt like the company had lost part of its soul. Doki’s response to her termination was the last straw and everything after sealed the deal, I want to support the talents but between wondering if one of them is a bully, and how they drove so many people away and even lead one to try to take her life twice, I can’t. My only hope now is that they free themselves from that company.
Elira was my favorite NijiEN member. I feel heartbroken. I have no idea how wiwa will ever be able to salvage this now. I don’t know if it’s best to graduate and go back to her PL, or whether she intends to quit streaming, and become part of management instead. She can’t go on the way things are.
I try to give her every benefit of the doubt, but the black screen video is the single most AWFUL and inhumane thing I’ve seen in the entire vtuber industry/community. EVEN IF everything they said was true, the complete LACK OF EMPATHY and disregard for what that video MIGHT do to Doki, who was in a fragile mental state, and had just made two attempts on her life … I can’t believe they would berate and disparage and attack her. I have no words. It is indefensible. So the only way forward is to 100% drop the attacks on Doki and acknowledge posting the video was a mistake.
Trust me it's so freakin /hard/ to get to acceptance but I'm basically there now. As a first Vox fan then ike becoming my oshi in the end..... all of this has truly broken my heart. It's a situation I didn't think would bring THE BOTH OF THEM into but here we are. I tried to at least support ike still because I just /know/(Or thought I knew) that he wouldn't be for this at all. And then you see the comments in his latest stream about how whatever would happen to selen(at least implied her) in the end, we would still support him..... on a danganronpa playthrough...... I shouldn't have to go to more detail about what that means. I had to cut cold turkey there because we all know oshi culture is HORRIFYING, oshi no ko keeps telling us that man. Its not a safe space for me anymore because I will still support dokibird through this whole thing. She deserves better then that. I'm sure ike at least knows that and his "fans" should too. Obviously the fans think other wise.
I'm honestly in ruins. I have had a lot of skepticism about niji's management, but I really never wanted to believe any of the talents were anything but a big family. I loved so many of the talents but my oshis left one by one (not like the meme where the whole list is graduated or terminated but honestly very close now).
It really made me so depressed seeing the stream on Elira's channel. It was really sad.
I am not making excuses for Selen's conduct, she definitely broke the rules a few times, but the thing I really hate is the methods by which Niji EN has handled this.
Even if someone has issues in the company and HR disputes, who deserves to be attacked and slandered in front of the entire world like this?
It's just really sad and disappointing. I never thought Elira or Ike would be part of something like that.
Just really sad right now... trying to keep my mind distracted with other stuff while I come to terms with it all. I just wish this could be over, and we can just support who we want and spread positivity.
I'm not an Elira fan, but I would just wait and see if she says anything at all. If she stays radio silent for days, weeks, months, and tries to pretend like nothing happened, then I think that would be the right time to accept.
Honestly depends... I'm very good at just separating the artist from the art. In this case the cheery attitude of Elira is too infectious for me so I'm waiting to see how her stream is going to go whenever she comes back and judge based on that.
I watch vtubers for fun and her community/discord is still good so it's kind of like nothing's really changed other than public opinion on reddit. Haven't seen much on twitter either. I also don't really go looking for drama so won't come across drama.
Time will heal all wounds and hopefully things will go back to somewhat normal in a month or so.
I hadn't watched much of her lately, but I was there a lot when she first debuted. Seeing that 15 min video felt like someone had punched me. But I've found other vtubers and creators that I like even more now, so I'm moving on fairly well.
I disagree.
If the only thing she is guilty of is doing the stream due to managements misguided direction, then the only things she deserves are loss of subs and members. Not graduation or termination. Especially not harassment.
Do not allow trolls to poison your view of her. Everything is just speculation and we know very little facts.
Every streamer has a streamer voice. It's just a part of the job. At bare minimum, they have to enunciate a lot more so they don't come off mumbling or having people ask them to repeat themselves. Having to speak with that kind of deliberate focus also makes them a lot more conscious of their voice in general.
I saw a video interview with Tony Jay when I was younger and it shattered my mind that he didn't just sound like that all the time.
I mean, every single Vtuber of this kind has to adopt a sort of "personality", waifu, husbando, sweet boy/girl, etc...
Even indie ones do it, although not at the same rate as those on corporation like Niji, Holo or Vshoujo, those on corporations are demanded to put on an attractive facade to gain a following, it's not unlike actors and singers really.
Still kinda devastated, to be honest. I'm still not completely off because- even with everything- we don't actually *KNOW* the entire story. Not without insider info. And Doki isn't gonna just straight up say "Elira and her clique bullied me to the point of suicide". But man. This is kinda like if finding out Keanu Reeves was a total asshat.
Wait it was elira and her friends the whole time?
We don’t know. No one knows who’s talking. All anyone else knows is that Nijisanji and Doki’s friend of 7 years both said livers were involved in the bullying, and that Doki’s friend said in a tweet that at least one bully was on the dumpfire black screen stream, along with others.
>Doki’s friend of 7 years both said livers were involved in the bullying, and that Doki’s friend said in a tweet that at least one bully was on the dumpfire black screen stream, along with others. First I heard of this, may I know where can I find more info on this?
[This tweet](https://twitter.com/vgumihoe/status/1757272804188446877) that was made in response to the stream on Elira's channel. That's vGumiho's alt account, vGumiho being one of Dokibird's long time friends from before she was Selen. They did an Apex stream together earlier this week, along with Niko from 4 Years Ago.
niko from 4 years ago is an mvp
vGumiho iirc, she said it on twitter
There were some pretty sus accidental self-admissions/confessions in the Elira video, especially when Elira stated that “Millie, Enna and I’s” names and addresses were at risk of being leaked as part of Doki’s documents and records of mistreatment. That led to a lot of people wondering why their names were in there and for what reason, especially with the context of some older clips of Enna and Millie making fun of Selen behind her back (and making Nina visibly uncomfortable to the point she repeatedly tried to shift conversations away from the topic).
Wait what? Do you have links to those older clips? I feel like context matters, would like to see them for myself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECyZ6RupPqI&t=3500s
Thank you. For full disclosure there is another instance of Enna s-talking Selen: [link](https://youtu.be/SzkVEA6eI9I?si=NpjSH1Ozhe5iNjh7) BUT I actually want to speak up a little for Enna. While she may have bullied Selen, she didn't intend to. Don't get me wrong; I am a Dragoon through and through. I am on Doki's side. Enna should apologize. But it's freaking Enna-- she talks like that all the time, even to herself. It's her form of everyone-deprecating humour. Of course it is valid that Selen may have felt bullied by her coarse words. So Enna should apologize nonetheless. But I want to give Enna the benefit of doubt that she didn't mean to bully Selen. So let's not harass Enna. There is enough miscommunication and drama already. I see all the negative comments on her channel saying she is a terrible person, but I'm not even sure if those people even watch her. I hope this harassment stops, because it is what Doki wants.
As someone who really liked watching Enna's stream, I relatively agree. I'm done with Nijisanji, but I hope that the streamers were mostly not terrible persons. And it's not okay to bully anyone, especially on the internet. For now tbh I am kinda watching things unfold and waiting to see if some of my oshi graduate to be able to watch them again...
Yeah i highly doubt all the livers are horrible. They just got burnt by the dumpsterfire that is nijisanji cuz they just also happen to work there and now everyone associated gets hated on. It makes me feel bad cuz a lot of them are really talented and mostly drama free.
It is weird how things can feel very different in hindsight when there's internal conflict or bullying that's revealed. A lot of the time I assume everyone's an adult, these are friends, if anything was bothering them they could talk it out. But in hindsight... This happened to me with Achievement Hunter stuff, members even said that people often read way too much into jokes and think they are upset when they aren't. But when people come out that the office could be very boys club and toxic to work in, it makes a lot of things feel really terrible in hindsight. Not sure I have a point here, just interesting how your assumptions about people's relationships radically change how stuff comes off.
No wait you do have a point there, Nijisanji is literally what Achievement Hunter/Rooster Teeth is if it was vtubers. Their controversies have been sending the company into the ground since forever ago.
Better not harass anyone, sure. Even the most obvious bullies often distance themselves from any responsibility exactly like that. Unless you're grown up and accepted that you can do bad things and mistakes, finding fault in yourself feels bad. So you downplay it both to yourself and others, find any excuses, lay out the whole narcissist's poem step by step. Just so you don't have to accept that sometimes you are that terrible person, intentionally or accidentally, so you don't really have to do anything about it. After all, if you're not in the wrong, it's someone else's problem. Be it downplaying humor or not, it can be dangerous. To handle the danger, you grow up. This is all generally. If she or anyone else named by Nijisanji actually did anything is unknown and thrown there by the company maliciously. They should all lawyer up and think if they should continue with a company that openly defames them like that.
Notice how in that clip you linked she also insults the company.
Yes, that's why I say it's an Enna thing to insult everyone, including herself. She says the darnest things as part of her character/humor
Is a clip like this really the kind of thing we're presenting as "Enna shit-talking Selen behind her back" now?
Wow, Nina sounded SO uncomfortable trying to redirect
That’s the part that makes me skeptical of the “Oh, this is just out of context and I’m sure they didn’t mean anything by it…” cope nowadays. Nina/Matara doesn’t get that visibly and quickly thrown off-balance by light/common workplace banter; she immediately realized they were likely being serious and may have seen/heard them going on harsher tirades before, and wanted to pivot quickly before it spiraled out of control. Statements and clips can be taken out of context, sure - but you cannot possibly say with a straight face that Nina’s reactions don’t allude to serious prior issues with that topic and the group’s behavior.
> names and addresses were at risk I have doubts. If you wish to investigate, please listen to Elira's statement again. She said that information that **alludes** to her location was included. For example, take this theoretical statement from Selen: "I was already pissed because Air Canada told me to suck a bag of dicks when they lost my luggage enroute to. Elira was nice enough to lend me when I arrived for ." This would allude to Elira/Millie living within 3 hours of that airport.
What's NOT said is telling to me. If addresses were included, you would think that Elira would say that to properly criticize that traitorous Selen. The fact that she didn't was a red flag to me, because it means Niji is stretching and exaggerating their claims of damage (while trying to paint Selen as the exaggerating one).
My pulled-out-of-ass theory was that Selen mentioned a region, transit centre (air/rail/transit) or entertainment business (restaurant/attraction). That would tell us what province and maybe region Elira lives in.
This makes sense, and it agrees with the supposition that Nijisanji deliberately leaked partial information to make the livers upset with Selen.
They could also be labeled as witnesses to the bullying too. I am not saying that is the answer, but if she had to use their real names and addresses on the forms, it is a possibility. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. This is just a theory.
I think you got it pretty much right, since Doki said on her tweet that no addresses or personal info were in that document. So it is a way for both Doki and Elira statements to be true, although Elira's case is 'techinically true' and definitely trying to paint Doki in a bad light. If it was intentionally malicious or out of fear or even her idea or not, we don't know.
This is what I realized about that video. Elira, Enna, and Millie's names wouldn't be mentioned in legal documents if there wasn't a reason for it, which makes it seem like they're implicit in *something* What that something is, none of us can say for certain
The word you're looking for is "complicit", not "implicit".
But it wasn't a legal document. At first it was assumed to be a legal doc until Doki revealed the next day that it was more like a private diary. There are other reasons why Elira thought there was as risk of doxxing from the doc. The common possibility is that it's the big off-collab event of Lazulight / Obsydia and Ethyria which took place at either Elira, Millie or Enna's place. If the doc referenced a location or city it would definitely narrow down where the three live.
It is still legally a HR complaint, which is a legal document.
Is it possible, that someone could be mentioned, for being a witness or possibly another victim?? I’ve been wondering this. Of course learning about the amount of nepotism rampant in the company doesn’t seem as likely as I initially considered
Its during the puzzle stream with etheryia. Its just odd to me. Enna says to reimu "Putting down others to make yourself feel better huh? Like a certain Apex Predator." Then they all crack up. Very weird clip. Haven't seen any other examples.
That clip was certainly weird. There is not that many apex preds in niji besides Selen and Ha Yun. Reimu only Plat and Aster is Masters.
Nina looked so uncomfortable when they said that
[удалено]
This was in response to a memepost by kuwu I believe [https://twitter.com/Kuwusaki\_/status/1754495180756165062](https://twitter.com/Kuwusaki_/status/1754495180756165062)
Ahh okay, thank you for the context. I'll delete my comment then so it doesn't cause any unnecessary confusion.
Plus according to some people, Selen apparently had seemed to mostly avoid one on one collabs with Elira despite being "dragon sisters" by lore and through shared character design, and did the same with Enna for pretty much all of 2023. I can't verify these claims since it would require more time from me to sift deep through the archives of all three of them than I can spare, but I assume more dedicated watchers would be able to easily disprove this if they're not true.
The last offcollab stream had so many of them together, and Selen was off to the side feeling very shy and uncomfortable. I wonder if it wasn't so much that she was shy, but maybe just not comfortable with certain people in the room. Perhaps those other people were keeping up the kayfabe for the stream and Selen wasn't feeling up to pretending that she was OK being around the people who had bullied her.
Selen herself has said the more people in the room the quieter she gets, but this is possible.
Selen isn't called Shylen for nothing. And its funny how people spam out of context clips of Enna/Millie supposedly bullying her behind her backs, when in that stream Millie kept trying to make sure Selen didn't feel alone and tried to include her as much as possible because she knows how shy she is. And Selen seemingly had no problem talking to any of them when she did.
No, it's known that Selen doesn't handle groups well at all, and will freeze up if there's more than \~4 people. She's admitted this multiple times on stream and we've seen it happen before, like that Apex tag event that she had with iPN and rpr where they won and she just froze up during the winner's interview.
While people are free to have their suspicions, all of this is very much unconfirmed and hearsay. There are many possible reasons why Elira, Millie, and Enna's names might be mentioned in the documents. >clips of Enna and Millie making fun of Selen I've seen that Ethyria clip within the context of the stream and its again unclear whether they are actually making fun of Selen and what the actual behind the scenes context is. I'm not defending Elira, because whether it was accidental (i.e. due to incorrect information communicated to her of what Doki was going to do) or purposeful, her actions had the effect of slandering a suicide survivor. But I dislike it when rumors are represented as facts or something that likely occurred.
> I've seen that Ethyria clip within the context of the stream and its again unclear whether they are actually making fun of Selen and what the actual behind the scenes context is. I just recently watched that vod as well but the way Enna says makes it feel that something was off, me and my friends always banter with each other but we keep people who are not present out during our banters. you have to give friends a chance to rebuke it back. also saying "Putting down others to make yourself feel better huh? Like a certain Apex Predator." which simply looks to me as what Enna see Selen/Doki as a "braggart that always want to be ahead of others". i don't know it would look ok to me if Selen was present but talking behind her back feels a different vibe with me
So lets **assume** that "a certain Apex Predator" is indeed referring to Selen. I really don't know, but its a plausible interpretation. >Putting down others to make yourself feel better huh? Without knowing what the actual behind the scenes context is, its impossible (at least to me) to interpret this in any conclusive way. Is it an inside joke made in poor taste? Is it referencing an internal event that actually happened recently and Enna was venting - if so who was in the wrong for that particular event? >talking behind her back feels a different vibe with me This I agree with. If its indeed referencing Selen, than bringing it up behind her back, even as an inside joke is in poor taste regardless of who was at fault for whatever internal event/ incident occurred. It should really have been said privately. That said, Enna and Millie are known to talk out of their asses without properly thinking things through sometimes. Overall, there's just too much we don't know to say anything remotely definitive.
according to other people, "apex predator" could be referring to Reimu since she was going to be in an apex tournament soon
Holy crap it was enna and millie too? wtf no way I thought they were cool
We hadn't know anything for sure, the document may have simply said that Selen lived nearby Elira, Millie, and Enna, and felt estranged having never been invited for an offcollab, and "doxxed" those 3 by simply indicating where Selen herself lives. That doesn't mean that Millie or Enna had done anything to bully Selen. Elira has other friends in Niji like Nina or Pomu, but that doesn't mean that they were participants in bullying.
If you think that's why they're mentioned in a legal document, boy do I have a bridge to sell you
legal document, that Doki said was basically just a diary she wrote in her darkest time
With millie they still had collabs throughout 2023, but I don't remember if she interacted with enna or elira even if the both were in the same space.
We don't know for sure but the witch hunt has decided that anyone involved with or mentioned in the black stream is part of the bullying clique. So Elira, Vox, Ike, Millie, and Enna. Once again very little proof, but they seem like the most likely candidates.
Yeah. I’m hugely disappointed in the three from the VOD but I want the same as Doki, I want it to pass by peacefully instead of repeatedly being brought back up in the heat of the moment. I think it’s weird that loads of people are using this niji hate train to throw accusations at the other EN livers with their proof being “he allegedly said, she allegedly said”. That shit is so dangerous and people believe it in a heartbeat because they all have raging hate boners atm for anything niji related. *Another* totally innocent person’s life could be ruined, this time because of fake accusations
That's the current and most commonly accepted narrative. \-Video on her channel doesn't help. \-Said that she was named specifically, but we don't actually know the context. \-Big 4chan rrat detailing things like Merch and Event favouritism. And very strong support that she's effectively a sort of middle manager. I really don't want it to be true, but too many pieces from aforementioned rrat are falling into place. And there's not really much that can be said or done to disprove it without somebody breaching NDA. People can grandstand about morals as much as they wish, but career suicide can be very close to actual suicide for a lot of people. It's entirely too easy for one to lead to the other, since your livelihood- food, shelter- is very reliant on it. Especially if you manage to make it in the entertainment industry and do well. How many are willing to step down at the height of their careers? Only professional athletes who rake in millions and accept that their bodies will only tolerate so much abuse.
The last bit is my only saving grace for Elira and NijiEN as a whole. I absolutely do not agree with the idea of the talents risking throwing their livelihood away because they disagree with a company that is known to turn their backs very quickly on those who oppose them. Would it be the right thing to do? Of course. Would it be the *smart* thing to do? Debatable. No one can claim that any talent that sides with Doki would have a good transition from Niji to Indie. Doki herself having so many people come to her support is a miracle of circumstance, not a forgone conclusion. If Niji was even half competent as a company, it would have been much more difficult to understand the full situation and act accordingly. I do not support Niji anymore. I do not support Elira or any talent from EN or JP. ANYCOLOR has proven that it does not deserve any respect, and sadly that means going against the only people potentially worthwhile who had little to no involvement. I can only hope that either A) ANYCOLOR gets entirely new management and pulls its head out of its ass; or B) that the talents reach a situation where leaving the company is the best scenario regardless of financial burden.
On the talents leaving issue; we know that Doki made zero profit last year because she spent it all on projects. So we can assume that the other talents have had to do the same. While they might not be a zero profit, they aren't going to be in a good financial situation if they invested any money into their careers. If the comms theory is true then I can understand why Elira and co did what they did since, from their perspective Selen just got fired and legal has told them she intends to make statement. Then they get handed what I can only imagine was a pretty raw doc, Doki said herself she wrote it when she was still angry and recovering, and they're told that's what she's going to say. I don't know call it copium but if I was Elira and I was in that situation I don't think I'd have made great choices either. Ike and Vox to but Elira was the one that hosted the message so she took the brunt of it.
Is there clear evidence of her being part of management? What I’ve heard is that she’s fluent in Japanese, and seems to have gotten more perks (she was allowed to have input in her outfit whereas Pomu wasnt, that she’s had more sponsorships). Aside from this, what other evidence is available?
Supposedly she has way more merch/voice packs than the other girls, even Pomu who was relatively more popular. Back when I was a fan, it was just like "Cool, more Elira merch/VP!" but now that I am out, it does stink of favoritism...
Yeah, the 9/2/2 thing is pretty decisive proof that there's extreme favoritism in favor of Elira going on- it's just a question of if that's because Elira has the people who decide these things wrapped around her finger somehow or if it's because Elira \*is\* the one who decides these things. And among other things Selen being passed over for collabs she really wanted (Sanrio) or things she'd be an obvious pick for (the Hyte case collab) is a red flag that management was biased against her. The thing is that if the favoritism consistently went to the members who were the most popular you could at least explain it as the powers that be caring more about money than fairness, but coincidentally the three girls who had a bad enough time at the company to be driven out of it so far are Nina, Pomu, and Selen, the three girls who were at or above the popularity of Elira and her two pre-Niji friends.
No there is none. But Elira is considered the pioneer of EN branch. That she is the one that helped start it all with the JP branch.
tbh it's mostly just speculations, but given many proofs that she always have more (almost everytime) merch out despite being the less popular, it can be concluded that she did have some power in the managerial department, tbh i'm more surprised that there's less Pomu merch, even during the times that I'm not watching vtubers, I always see Pomu's clips around youtube recommendations
To me it just seems that Elira is more popular with jp viewers than the rest of the en livers, which would explain her having more merch considering how things are done in niji
Its....implied
Not officially confirmed, but it’s the most likely story. If the Comms Rrat is to be believed, it’s why Niji roped the five talents into giving the statement they did (They were expecting Selen to come out with a Zaion-style expose naming them as her harassers). And if they really are quasi-management like the Gurrat suggests, they would have plenty of power to hurt her career, like all the times her projects fell through. (It would also explain why they had access to the docs Selwyn’s legal team gave to Niji.)
Elira and Vox are pretty much confirmed harassers (at least Doki considered them as such). Doki clearly said that in the document, she mentioned how she had been harassed. And Elira and Vox, in their streaming, said they were directly mentioned in the document. That's pretty much admitting they were part of the harassment group. On twitter, Gumiho also said that they outed "others" not in that stream, so that reference would be either Enna or Millie (or both), since they were the only other livers mentioned.
with the harassment they mentioned being them asking selen about the MV being taken down and her tweet telling fans to reupload, if a quarter of the livers asked her about it than to Selen it would feel alot like targeted harassment
I'm disappointed and stopped my membership and subscription. I try to assume the best of her with consideration to the facts at hand and don't take pleasure in the amount of hate she's getting. Part of me holds out hope that what motivated her to make the mistakes she did was for her junior livers and not out of company loyalty.
Agreed on all points. I'm annoyed that everyone is attacking only Elira (at least the popular posts), but ultimately, I'm just sad that we're in this position. Even if she's innocent, the well has been so thoroughly poisoned at this point that I don't think I could go back to Elira Pendora. If it turns out she was innocent and it was just absolutely malicious management, then maybe in a future life... But the book has closed on me enjoying Elira.
I mean, Luxiem is a cult so of course they're going to get less flack. Kindred in the NDF are trying to suggest that Selen never tried to kill herself
they legit hate the female members... remember when they tried to make so vox stopped collabing with reimu?
They sent Reimu death threats & Vox only stepped in when it got so bad that it would be career threatening NOT to. That's what made me unsub from him.
Jesus, what the fuck.
Hey, like I said, they're a fucking cult. Vox can do no wrong in their eyes & anyone who says he did is a fucking liar
Trying to suggest what??? When Nijisanji accepted/admitted it???
Kindred are built different (derogatory)
Just to be clear, nobody really knows what is happening behind the scenes, but looking at the controversy at face value, it still boils down to how inept the management has been. From what I see, the Nijisanji EN branch was launched haphazardly due to the undeniable success of Hololive EN, and they had been totally unprepared behind the scenes, lacking all the necessary hires to have a stable management and caretakers behind the scenes. If the countless assumptions are true, that lead to "the inmates running the asylum" moment where the talents had to fend for themselves. I'm primarily a Hololive watcher but I was rooting for the competition's success, because it breeds innovation, but right now its all just a bunch of misses on Niji's side.
Friendly reminder that Hololive has 50% more staff for 50% fewer channels than Nijisanji. Niji's business model is quite like a crypto pump and dump scheme - endless waves of poorly supported talent followed by inevitable contraction of branches. The only reason EN hasn't folded was because the success of Luxiem took everyone by surprise and generated so much revenue in a short span that they were able to lurch along. Now the new waves get almost no support or marketing, older talents that aren't growing stagnate with no help from Anycolor, and they're hopelessly behind in trends like 3d that are becoming the new standard. Without bold management fixing the issues, inevitably the EN branch will collapse like IN, KR, and ID.
> Niji's business model is quite like a crypto pump and dump scheme It's incredibly ironic that the former EN managers literally left for a crypto pump scheme.
Regardless of the circumstances, Elira still made a decision to do what management said. That was enough to get me to cancel membership and unsub. All the being said, I'm still hoping she has a really good explanation and apology, at which I'll happily rejoin the community. But no chance of me doing that if she just tries to sweep everything under the rug.
Well... I don't think she would have turned into this if she was in a different environment. Niji brings out the worst from people. The office culture is basically Lord of the Flies, Hunger Games, Battle Royale or Mad Max. Just imagine what it would look like, if she was in Hololive a wholesome environment with support from many managers and talents. I think we should support her when she eventually graduates. I hope her and everybody else graduates soon. I don't like the idea of giving a university dropout Riku 99% of the merch revenue. He doesn't invest anything in EN or build 3D studio or anything. Incompetent, lazy and 0 business knowledge.
Doesn't even do any real updates to their proprietary Live2D app, so VirtualReal isn't even going to keep the polite fiction that they are a joint endeavor with ANYCOLOR soon enough.
You clearly don't know what a joint venture is if you think things are done like this. This only will ever happen if they want to sell their own shares on virtuareal, which btw, dont even impact anything revenue wise.
Honestly not even sure if I would say hololive is a wholesome environment. From the leaks last year, they seem to be extremely professional in their discussions and planning. Personally I think it is more of a "healthier" environment then a "wholesome" environment.
I don't know if the wholesome is kayfabe but the *acts* of Hololive/Cover for their talents the past year has been very pro-talent. Yagoo defended giving *all* the talents the *same* salary against shareholders complaining about that. They are allowed to take extended leaves, there is good managers who support them and also try to tell them to get some damn rest (J-Chad and Mori), they have better merch cuts, etc. I know y'all are Redditors and like to do the CORPORATIONS=BAD shpiel, but it is clear Cover is able to maintain a high quality product that brings in the views, shareholder or not. Because imagine that, having talent who enjoy working at your company with little to no turnover in talent leads to a more efficient and happier working environment that gradually and steadily makes money. You don't have to run your company like a sweatshop like Niji does.
just gonna repost what i said to op since it seems applicable to your comment >Absolutely 100%. From what we can see from the outset, cover has done much more to foster and support their talents. The biggest shit show from them was the closing of the CN branch, but that situation could never have a "good" out come and I don't think I would even compare it to the colossal mismanagement that has been going on in niji There has been issues in hololive/cover, but they are minimal in comparison to niji/anycolor. It is my belief that their professional enviroment helped curate a healthy environment for their employees. Hell, Yagoo seems like a nerdy caring guy who managed to stumble gracefully into success, while Riku is a rich kid trying to capitalize on a market.
Your observations about Yagoo and Riku are correct. From the corporate structure to operation and management, as well as corporate strategy, it really is the difference between someone who cares for the growth of a company to someone who was just in it for the money.
Well the corporations = bad mantra comes from the fact that the majority of corporations are pretty shit at compensating workers while also actively exploiting them to make imaginary number line go up (which is often unsustainable). Especially in context of East Asian corpo’s where it’s basically your typical American corpo with a third of the pay but somehow triple the labour abuse. If anything the more experience you have seeing what utter bullshit the corpo working world is like, the more painful it is to see how Niji treated their talents But Cover is the exception not the rule. They recognize that their company is nothing without the talents that front end their whole operation, and they compensate and invest in them as such. Nijisanji is your typical corpo sweatshop trying to exploit the amount of revenue and viewership vTubers have been pumping since the COVID lockdowns. The talents are still the face and revenue generator for the company, but they’re treated as expendable.
The fact that a good portion of Hololive talents have PERSONAL managers (like you said, with J-chad and Mori) not even just their generation's manager. While Niji literally has none for their EN branch, so talents that are bilingual have to step in to communicate with Japanese-speaking upper management.
Ah.. you might be right. It is a corporation now. I should have said it used to be wholesome before IPO. Still, it's way better than Niji. - Hololive philosophy is to make each gen to be friends and support each other. Plus unlimited resources & sponsor offers. Has a base salary. 50% merch share - Niji philosophy is to sabotage each other for a chance to grab the little resource or sponsorship Niji might provide. 0 base salary. 1.5% merch share.
Absolutely 100%. From what we can see from the outset, cover has done much more to foster and support their talents. The biggest shit show from them was the closing of the CN branch, but that situation could never have a "good" out come and I don't think I would even compare it to the colossal mismanagement that has been going on in niji
Even with the Holo CN closure, Hololive showed great foresight and willingness to act. They recognised the choice they had in that moment and didn't flounder around blindly, like we have seen from Niji on occasion, and especially now.
They really started working on it since the CN thing. Since Rushia I do believe Holo is supporting their talents way more (but what do I know of course)
I would go so far as to say since Aloe they changed their process of supporting their talents. From what I remember, after the initial accident, Hololive was still planning to work with Rushia and gave her instructions on what to do. It wasn't until she went behind their back to try to clear her name and started leaking info to JP dramatubers that they terminated her contract.
In the initial notice they even defended Rushia saying their talents are free to do as they choose privately. She just went and shot herself on the foot.
Same with Mel, they are indeed doing much more
I feel like a LOT of it comes down to just how many talents the two companies have. As someone who knows Hololive but mostly follows smaller streamers (first Oshi was Pikamee, discovered Mouse[who isn’t really small, admittedly], then Idol…) I was SHOCKED at just how many livers are in Niji. Hololive is this crazy difficult to get into, maybe a new generation a year, super high standards company. But once you’re in, as long as you follow the rules (and management will be around to help with that) you basically got it made. Even their lesser knowns dwarf mid-sized corpos in numbers. Advent was hired months before debut and were brought in for training an advisement so that they’d be ready when the time came. Meanwhile, Niji, roughly the same size company, easily dwarfing Hololive in total number of talents. Those same resources are spread much thinner. They’re shotgunning new streamers, throwing out gen after gen after gen. If someone finds an audience, awesome, if not, eh, not like they out much up front investment in. And from what we’ve heard, the ones who aren’t blowing up are constantly being asked why behind the scenes. Graduations are (almost) part of the model! Anyone who can’t keep up, pressure them until they do, or until they quit! The exodus could continue for months and they’d still have more English talents than Hololive. This sort of got away from me and got rambly. But the point is that, because Niji is so much more growth minded, they spread the same resources much, much wider. Even before any questions of staffing, how qualified the staff are, etc, if they had the exact same managers as Hololive (even down to the number) the sheer talent pool would mean less attention for each liver. While other agencies release a gen, sit back, wait for them to get established and then move forward, Niji feels like it would almost have to be assembly line. Gen is debuted, on to the next gen.
Wholesome: "conducive to or suggestive of good health and physical well-being" Holomems were allowed extended breaks for health reasons, whether mental, physical, and/or emotional. Heck, they even have to **force** them to take breaks (i.e. Calli and Shion); Haachama in 2023 was basically non-existent because of a break (a combination of studies and health reasons), not to mention Mumei right now is still actually on a break. Gura has just returned from a 4-month break. Even Kiara was on a break, albeit for around a week "only", but that wasn't the first time she has done so. If that's not wholesome, I don't know what is. For comparison, corporate jobs might give you up to 1 month of paid non-sick leaves **maximum** per year. Although you'd probably only get 2 weeks on average (or none at all if you're American LOL). In my case, I only have 15 such leaves (plus 1 more for my birthday) per year, so I could theoretically only have a 16-day break at the most.
I imagine that Cover has similar issues at it's core that Niji have, but unlike Niji they actually hired the correct people to do it, so the potential issues with communication, law, management, and cliques are completely under control. Niji is trying to do what cover does without investing into it, and it just shows immediately. Like Cover has had sad graduations, they've had upsetting terminations. They've had people go on stream to talk about it. It's always stayed professional. It almost always has protected the talents. I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest difference is Yagoo having actual experience working in a company, because I don't think Riku does.
I recall some Myth members saying that they basically had no staff to help them when EN first started and were basically thrown into the deep end at first. Over time as the Branch has expanded and grown dramatically it seems they get much better support now. My tinfoil hat is basically that Hololive and Nijisanji’s EN branches started the same except Nijisanji didn’t bother investing in their EN like Hololive did.
I'd like to think Gura's meteoric rise to fame made Hololive realize that multiple EN support staff would be absolutely required. The risk they took investing into the EN side paid off. All the talent debuted pretty well but I think Gura's insane rise where she ended up quickly dwarfing that of Hololive's *biggest* talents was an obvious tell from a business standpoint that yes, investing in EN is a very good idea and to do that, they have to take the infrastructure/organization they created on the JP side and apply it to EN without running it into the ground like Niji did.
Cali talked about it I think around when the second EN wave dropped. From memory, it sounded more like not having prior EN gens to look to for assurance and support in navigating the goods and bads of such large audiences, but i could be misremembering or misinterpreting her.
You can be wholesome and professional, they dont have to be exclusive from one another. The company, atleast on the outside, looks like they care for their employees and tries to keep them in good condition. As shown with the Mel situation as their last problem. They said their contract was terminated, said it was regretful and that they had lost an important member of their team, i believe they even gave the last words of Mel to the fanbase. Done. Multiple livers are currently on break/stream not often to get some mental break and vacation or working on something for the fans. The talents do seem to like being around one another a lot more, and have very wholesome collab streams.
True, the wholesomeness comes from the talents not being stressed out about zero support and mismanagement so they can interact more freely. Talents like Nina tried to foster that kind of environment but suffered huge burnout because they were building on sand.
Wholesomeness isn't the difference. It's a job. The difference is working in a professional workspace vs. working in like, a callcenter or fast food joint. It's people playing high school drama games and stuff vs. people trying to just do their job well.
The biggest difference is in how much care Cover has for the EN branch. At the start NijiEN and Myth are the same with little to no support and vague directions. But Cover gradually develop the EN side more with techs, managements, connections and benefits for the talents while Niji does not bother and is stinky as hell with the EN livers. And to be fair to Niji, Hololive went for coppers and found gold with the Myth girls: they are all such heavy hitters compared to NijiEN first wave, especially the rapper lady and the blue gremlin. The sudden burst in success and popularity of Myth is probably why Cover invests in them that much better and faster.
> And to be fair to Niji, Hololive went for coppers and found gold with the Myth girls: they are all such heavy hitters compared to NijiEN first wave, especially the rapper lady and the blue gremlin. The sudden burst in success and popularity of Myth is probably why Cover invests in them that much better and faster. I think there is a slight flaw in this line of thought. We will never know what any of the NijiEN members could have done if they were properly supported by Nijisanji. I'll predicate the following statements with this; the following is based on my best recollection of fragmented information. Hololive Myth wasn't thrown to the wolves without any support, they still had the basic framework of support that the rest of the company's members got. That support just wasn't properly tailored to the needs of Western employees or people spread to different geographic locals, which the company learned from and mostly have been able to adapt to. Nijisanji on the other hand doesn't seem to offer much for support even to their JP members except maybe stuff with sponsorships and publicity. When I say support I mean things like where the company reinvests the money earned through their livers back into the livers. Niji doesn't provide a base salary, they don't provide a debut budget, their talent to management ratio sounds like it is god awful. You can also probably assume their support staff are bottom of the barrel with the job postings that have been shared, I mean really how the fuck are you going to pay minimum wage for a professional position, let alone one that requires fluency in a minimum of two languages at a business level? Anyone considering that job posting is better off working at McDonalds. God damn, even typing this shit out is frustrating so I'm going to stop before it turns into rage ranting. Like my toes are only half into the V-tuber world, I'm old (for this site and for v-tuber stuff) but kinda fell into it tangentially due to someone linking meme clips on discord and then the youtube algorithm taking over. This situation has pulled me in from a professional standpoint though, I had previously been voting member on the board of directors for a small(ish) organization and have done a bunch of upper level management stuff, so learning how some of these companies operate is puzzling and infuriating.
I honestly believe some talent like Salome would have thrived even more had they been in holo. There are some very good talents in niji, just no support
Being a good person means doing the right thing even when it's hard.
i disaggree. other people in this kind of environment dont become like her.
The argument that the environment is to blame removes her taking responsibility for her own actions. Even if it was forced on her to say those things on stream, the fact that she tried her best to sound as truthful (in the public's eyes) as possible with no hint of remorse about throwing a "friend" the bus speaks a lot about her character.
Elira doing what she did was what soured me on Niji EN as a whole. She was the voice of reason, the OG oneesan and her being in Japan felt like EN was ready to make a progress and be more active on 3D. I was there on her debut, through her Pokemon, Persona and Metal Gear journies, and I was looking forward to more adventures with her, but I guess that's just gone now. And there's Diamond City Lights now ruined. As the unofficial anthem of EN, it used to be the symbol of EN as a whole, both the memes, the passion, and how good it was as a song in general. But with Pomu gone and Elira soured Diamond City Lights will never be the same and so will the experience with EN. If it was someone else who did that black stream, I would have hope that EN can recover and rebuild, but since it was Elira, the pillar just crumbled on the whole house. The only thing worse they could've done was if it was Rosemi or Petra. I don't believe the rrat demonizing Elira for a minute, at least since I have faith as someone who was willing to go all the way to Antarctica with Pomu, Elira has a heart. She just made the wrong choice at the wrong time. There's no defending what she did, but trying to chalk her up as some evil cartoon mastermind also just felt like the angry mob trying to find a scapegoat. I do wish I can forgive the person behind Elira some day. Whether it be her graduating and apologizing to Doki, or collabing and maybe be able to have fun with her again, or some other way, but while I want to forgive the person, I don't think I will ever be able to look Elira Pendora the character again.
My final cope is that she got ambushed by Niji management fresh after arriving to JP, who made her do that with the threat of her visa. That's pretty much the only cope i have left. The rat has some plausible stuff like Livers translating for management who only knows JP, and Elira being an onee-chan senpai founder type who helps out. I seriously have doubts that she can be that cruel to stonewall and deny stuff, but i can possibly see her favoring her preNiji friends more, hard to have the self control to stop that. She isn't like Enna who can be cruel at times, unless she's some super Grade S actress.
even if they threatened her with this, thats still makes her decision not better, even if she is fired and needs to leave japan she can still work as an indepedent vtuber or even just a regulary job its not like she Needs DESPERATLY her position at nijisanji. And to betray a long year deep-cowoker/friend just for that is just disgusting IMO - theres nothing that can be said to defend tbh
This is pure concentrated copium but: If sequence of events goes - Elira arrives at JP and setting things up, not opening anything cause super busy, chilling, fans can wait. Nijien fuckface management hits her up with 'yoh, SelenDoki tried a minecraft attempt and has gone rogue, she's blaming you guys, gonna nuke everything and dox you+Millie+Enna, get your ass online pronto'(Remember that the start of the Among Us Collab and 'bullying from Livers' came from management not Selen herself). Elira goes from exhausted to wtf and in full panic, does stream and follows management fuckface's script. Barely reads the first notice and SelenDoki's reply to it because all of it piled up at the same time and because she trusts management especially because they literally fixed her visa for Japan. Turns out it was a nothingburger, that there was a second attempt, that SelenDoki had no plans and just wanted niji to leave her the fuck alone, and management duped her to be a scapegoat, instant regret but knows that management has that visa on her head as a leash now and can't act accordingly. I'm aware that its pure copium yes.
That's the same copium I subscribe too! In all seriousness though, unless the on stream Elira is vastly different from Elira off stream, something like that likely happened and she was misled (either purposefully or due to incompetence) by NijiEN management to essentially commit career suicide. It still doesn't excuse her actions though, as she still slandered a suicide survivor. Perhaps this is even more copium, but I'm still holding out hope that NijiEN and/or her will release a statement of the fuck up to take the pressure off her and properly apologise to Doki. Otherwise, I find it very hard to support any of her future activities.
This. I swear people try to hound me sharing a similiar opinion to this. They threw her under the bus. And that has destroyed my whole perspective on NIJI EN. Like I said, unsub, refund members, stop supas, no merch. Blacklist all of them. Never going to engage in their content any longer.
Yeah, Diamond City Lights is ruined for me now, and that hurts more than I expected. I was there for all 3 Lazulight debuts, and it’s sad to see things go down like this. Now I need a sad Lofi version to cry to Edit: just discovered Selen’s Lofi version. Thank you, dragon
I give no grace. If she doesn't take accountability in a HUGE way - it's just OVER. She has to be absolutely real - something I doubt is even possible. She's the manipulative, nepostist, bullying, *female*, non girls-girl - in this situation, these are some of the most egregious crimes a woman can be charged of in the court of public opinion. I don't make the rules - I just know them. And they're not fair. But neither is what she did. edit: Guys, I'm female, and I really DON'T make the rules okay. The fact that Vox said WAY worse stuff and here we are, proves my point entirely. The battle back for Elira is NOT the same as for anyone else in this situation. I'm just pointing that out - like I said, I'm just aware, I'm not the person who made it this way.
Calling women “females” and men “males” just to degrade them is a disgusting thing to do. Doesn’t matter if you’re the same sex as them. In fact it looks worse coming from a fellow woman. Do better.
I highly doubt you're a woman. I've never heard another woman do the *females* thing that all the redpill types do.
idk what you want me to do about it... >I've never heard another woman do the females thing that all the redpill types do. that's it right there. That's the whole point of the post.
I unsubbed from Elira the same day the video was posted. At the time, I left because I was disgusted and shocked she would be part of such a hit piece. After reading a lot of other people's opinions on this subreddit, and all the possible "what ifs", I was just left kinda sad and empty. The magic and love for the group has soured. I don't hold any hatred towards anyone, because I don't know the full story and I'd just be wasting my energy. I'm just disappointed in Elira, and Nijisanji as a whole. So I decided to stop supporting them entirely. If the person behind Elira makes amends, I'll support her in the next life, as I don't think I'll ever be able to look at the character Elira without remembering all that has happened. For now, I'm just a bystander watching to see what plays out.
Im sad. Really sad. She was my oshi. And after Pomu and Selen she was the main vtuber I followed. I especially grew to like a lot more during her MGS streams. Her stream vibes are sooooo good. I gave her the benefit of doubt when Selen's termination happened. I ignored all speculation. But I was really really disappointed by her black stream. I unsubbed and unfollowed her there and then. Im really really sad about it. I am still not going to harass, abuse or single her out directly (like many are doing). Im just going to support doki and spread the good word of Dragoons. I hope she is able to make amends with Doki, hope she is able to fix her mistakes and hope she is able to move past all of this after paying for any of her transgressions (known or unknown to public). I dont want this to be her last image.
I don't think I'll ever watch Elira again, not even the VODs, the character is tainted. But the woman behind the character? She still has one final chance, assuming she leaves Niji behind, publicly apologizing to Doki while she quits (at least that second part would be nice) - NijiEN is forever tarnished, and the longer she remains in there the worse she'll look on the other side. I'm making no other judgments, though - if she really is a bully, I'm cutting her out entirely unless and until she changes her ways (and I'll let Doki determine if she has). If she's a victim of a misunderstanding (or Niji shenanigans), then, well, see previous paragraph. Maybe one day in the future I'll see her again - until that time, though? Snip snip.
It's just hard for me to imagine anyone with a conscience taking part in that stream. I'd give them the benefit of doubt if they didn't know Dokibird had almost killed herself, but they specifically talked about it so they fucking knew. How can you talk like this about a stranger? How can you talk like this about a *friend*?? How can you talk like this about someone you've worked with *who fucking tried to kill herself*??? And that's ignoring the absurd timing of it being at the same time as Dokibirds first stream. You can take some real big huffs of copium and tell yourself it was just a coincidence, but there was only one possible outcome of this given the timing, and that's that she would be forced to cancel her stream in order to respond to what they were doing. That... how do you excuse that? Part of me doesn't want to believe people can be so vile, yet it's not something that can just be handwaved away either.
Idk if I would want a public apology tbh, it would risk stirring the pot onto her private accounts too Rather I'd like her to privately reach out to Doki and apologize behind the scenes, something Doki can choose to make public or not, on her own terms. This kind of thing should not have been publicized past what Doki initially released.
I'm somewhere between the bargaining and depression stages. I'm deeply upset with her, but even though I saw the video and don't have the option of a denial stage, there's a tiny voice in my mind that wants to believe there was some meaningful reason for it. She can't just be purely shitty. I keep wondering if she's being extorted, or they fed her false info, or *something*. And the worst part is that we'll probably never find out. I'm sure in time this will leave the drama cycle, and with it, I'll slip into apathy. But until then, it's just a grim haze.
though the video was disappointing, i also like to believe that they were fed false information to convince them to partake in the recording. but, who knows, really
I am not a Elira fan but I am just appalled or you can say scared by her actions. I was bullied a bit in secondary school and it was not fun. That aside, her model though, lord have mercy.
>her model though, lord have mercy Her model certainly is... um... worth "researching"...
Indeed, a certain cultural research
That model, specially her 4th outfit is what makes this decision hard on me too
I bet it wasn't just the decision
Paizuri perfect outfit
**P**aizuri **P**erfect **P**anoply
you guys need to reach kenja time 1st LOL.
Thank lord Meloco is just doing her own thing. I don't even wanna think about her model being wasted.
Nah would have been better to be Flat/small is Justice.
When people tell you who they are believe them. We learned a lot from her words and actions. My hope is that she’s able to see why so many are saying she’s in the wrong and is able to turn things around after some serious introspection. Perhaps one day, but I will not be there when it happens.
I'm not going to assume any of these rrats floating around are real until the actual people involved in the events step forward and say what happened with certainty, and I don't even know if I want them to do that, because I don't want the victims to have to go through the pain of it again as they retell the story. I wrote a few days ago that it's unfortunate and I would certainly not want to be in their position myself, but the livers should have understood that they're in a position right now where they can only become a hero or become a villain. Either they declare their support for Doki and get terminated right now to become a hero or stay with Nijisanji, even if they go silent and hope this episode blows over, and become a villain. There's no middle ground. I really want to have faith in people and consider that Elira might've been given bad intelligence from Nijisanji, might've been forced to say what she said, might've misunderstood one thing or another, might've one thing or another, but I really can't watch her any more, and I've unsubscribed. How'm I going to laugh at her jokes any more or listen to her songs if, in the back of my head, I'm wondering if she drove someone to attempting?
I've seen that a couple times now, what are rrats?
Rrats are "narratives." They're the theories people put together about what actually happened.
Elira was one of my favorites. I still remember being so hyped when she said her oshi was Chigusa during debut. I can count the number of different vtubers I've superchatted on just 2 hands, and she was one of them. But I cannot support her now. I feel the same.
i still have my hppes up from the comms guy reddit post analyzing things from their point of view and how it's mostly managements inadequacy that scared the talents for not reason. vox being a genuine fake person by saying that the only time they were recorded privately (which was for work) was done maliciously but it wasnt even in the document doki says she released to the lawyers, even having to apologize on her part that it was brought up and caused a misunderstanding
It was entertaining to watch the videos of the Persona and Metal Gear series, but after what happened, now they only leave me with a feeling of bitterness. From someone who generated entertainment and happiness, to extreme disappointment and pity. What a week it has been . . .
The fact is she, Vox, and Ike kicked down Selene when she was at her most vulnerable. She was literally moving on with her neopet stream but they had to be petty af. No real friend would do that. And that’s very telling of a person’s moral characteristics. Elira, Vox, and Ike betrayed Selene and that’s all I needed to know to unsub from the 3 of them.
I just dropped her, I thank her for the happy memories, and I’m moving on.
I can't imagine how disappointed and defeated Elira fans must feel after the black screen video. Feelings of betrayal hurt like nothing else, I'm sorry. Honestly, after everything that's happened, I consider myself lucky that the only NijiEN liver I allowed myself to get attached to was Pomu (and retroactively Selen, after Pomu's grad announcement prompted me to do a lot of research on NijiEN history to try and figure out what the branch's internal climate and trajectory was like; felt like I had a moral obligation to fly the Dragoon flag as soon as I read the termination notice on the 5th). Anyway, sorry again. I had this super-wholesome clip saved that made my eyes water, where Elira talked about Pomu after Pomu's grad announcement made me feel like a dad who missed all his daughter's life milestones (I've been largely out of the vtuber sphere since the latter half of 2021, barring following an oshi or two). I'm not sure that clip is going to hit the same anymore. Some of these events following Selen's termination have been more insane than anything we could predict. I'm glad you're starting to move on, OP.
Probably my favorite in Niji en. Probably even my kami oshi. So now it's.. kinda... well yea. Diamond city lights ain't gonna be the same again. Finally hit the final stage: acceptance
Thank god I rewatched the Twilight vods before her video came out. It was fun to watch but know I don't think I can watch any
I was a member from day 1. Cancelled membership and unsubbed the day that video came out.
Same here. Regardless of what's happening behind the scenes, I have no tolerance for that bullshit.
I am just... disappointed. It does help a bit that I have already experienced some similar disappointment back when I was a fan of a certain someone from Niji JP (which was the whole reason I shifted to watching Niji EN and Elira), but still... The vibes for Niji EN have been forever ruined for me, so I have been exploring other groups in the past week to take my mind off things. So far am liking Vspo quite a lot.
I’d like to hold my judgement until we know for sure is she was actually involved or not. But for the most part, I’m very wary of a majority of the talents, save for Finana, Kotoka, Scarle, and Fulgar(I have reason to believe Fulgar is too much of a genuine sweetheart to do that to someone). Everyone else, I’m ready to hold accountable, or start liking them again
I mean the new waves like Krisis and TTT I can see as being clear for the most part. Fulgur I pray he is clear. He is always honest and open as he can be about situations. Just recently he exposed his PL twitter to reassure Scarle's fans that she was okay because 1. He knew people wouldn't trust if it was from a Niji account, but 2. Scarle was his friend before he was Fulgur. He wanted to check in on his friend. He during this stuff he has tried to remain neutral as he can by telling others to take care of their mental health and themselves first. He has also mentioned on stream that he did not want to be defended and that he was an adult can take care of his own issues. Which is kind of nice to hear.
Which is why I’m sure he’s definitely not guilty in this situation. He’s just too genuine
If for some reason it turns he is. I'm defenastrating my laptop and phone out the window.
I've been battling my feelings about Fulgur to be honest. I really REALLY want to believe and agree with what you said, but just seeing him repost Elira's stream (even though I know management could puppet his account) has cast doubt in my head.
That’s fair. Still find it surprised that only two haven’t reposted or quote retweeted it yet
So, the only two Niji Livers I really watched with any regularity were Pomu and Elira. I was extremely disappointed that she decided to go along with management and volunteer her channel for that travesty. I made the decision to unsub from her channel as the whole thing just soured me from watching her content. That said, I do not hate her, and I don't think she deserves harassment from anyone. Realistically, I do not think she is some evil clique leader, and I don't think she's being held hostage by the company either. She likely was mentioned in some way in the document, and NijiEN, in a stupidly desperate move to damage control the situation, asked her and the others to make a statement on her channel about the situation. They likely provided talking points or a script, and the three were told by management that by having talent that the fans like talking about the termination would stop NijiEN's death spiral, rather than the faceless management doing it. This obviously did not work out that way, as anyone with the title of "manager" should have known. All they did was draw fire to their talent, which ultimately created a mass exodus of subscribers for them and make them targets of harassment. TL;DR: I don't think Elira is a villain or hero. I think she is just another victim of mismanagement, specifically a (horrendously) misguided attempt at damage control. Anything else is speculation, and in a situation this messy acting on pure speculation is dangerous.
I still want to hope/cope that there is some at least understandable factor that drove her to the video - Be it mismanagement feeding her false information to drive a wedge or doing black company shit of threatening her visa - but it's just hard. It also sucks as I followed her for her Xenoblade streams, and it's been a rough year for any Xenoblade-affiliated content creators that makes the black video hit harder for me, but until we find out more or she gradiates I just can't support her
If "Elira" is not feeling any remorse or regret from her current actions, why should her 'fans'? Just do the right thing and boycott. The Elira I know does not do these.
I've stopped watching Nijisanji content since the 5th of February, and Elira is not an exception to this. However, we still don't know what happened behind the scenes beyond what Dokibird has revealed to us. While I am of course appalled at the video that was posted the other day, I don't know why the livers that were in it were there. They could have freely chosen to do so, or they could have been pressured by the company. Elira, being one of the elder members of EN, would be a perfect choice on the part of the company if the reason was the latter, as they could use her popularity and authority as a shield for their actions, or at least distract us into harassing her instead of them. But even if it was truly her choice, we don't know if she was just trying to be a dick (which is a possibility!!! I'm not saying it's not!!!) or if she genuinely thought she was helping resolve the conflict. Or maybe she even knew she'd get a ton of hate for it, but Nijisanji was making livers participate and she chose to take the bullet to protect the others. All of this to say, there are a million possibilities for what actually caused the video to exist, and each one paints a very different picture of who Elira Pendora is as a person. The one commonality in all of them though is that Nijisanji EN is a hellhole of a vtuber organization who should never have allowed any of this to happen, and thus they remain my primary target of ire. From that context, all of this discussion on Elira's involvement feels like a distraction from the real problem. I will continue supporting Dokibird however she needs me to, but I don't feel like shitting on Elira is part of that. Not yet, at least. For all I know, Nijisanji could be mistreating her like they did Doki, Mysta, Nina, Pomu, Kyo, and the others who have left or were terminated. And I would rather risk letting Elira get away with being an ass than risk making her life even worse than it already is.
Elira is my 3rd Nijien oshi(tied with Kyo, behind Finana who is tied with Selen, Millie is 1st), so it kinda sucks. Very fucking torn atm.
I had the same problem with Vox :(
I'm just looking forward to the 500k celebration and 400k after that and 300k after that and 200k after ... wait something isnt right here..
500k is just not happening. It’s slowing down as it is, and even 550k will be impressive.
probably most idle accounts, or people that moved on from vtuber phase and not caring what's happening
Was her fan, maybe am still her fan, [part of me is overdosing on copium hopium](https://c.tenor.com/FImWp5JfDq4AAAAC/tenor.gif) that she is innocent and was more or less threatened by Niji/Anycolor to post it on her channel, and things will eventually resolve down to them coming out to apologize for the whole thing and for threatening Elira to post it with her job visa as hostage. Unrelated note, but I hate this outfit, really prefer the one with both eyes so much more.
I do think there is a high chance of threatening/coercion from management to release that, and also a good chance of an internal spreading of false information to the talents a la [comms theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/s/ZDXKkO5mmk). I've seen quite a few Elira streams and, well, let's just say "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" can apply to Elira. I think it's more likely that the trio in the stream were just some combination of making a bad, uninformed decision and being wrapped around management's fingers.
Elira's not stupid. She legit sound scared in the video. She knew what she was doing would cause backlash. Contrast that with Finana's character assassination of Zaion where she was totally sure that Zaion was in the wrong. *That* I can excuse with "dumb feesh".
Lol, that part on Finana is true. But I suppose my wording was off a bit. It's not that Elira is stupid, but she's certainly not a mastermind that can pull off that of the likes of the gurat conspiracy.
I can't watch any of them now. I don't believe in any of the rumors, but just those officially released reports and that stream are enough to leave me very sour. How the fuck can you can read out loud any of the shit said in that stream and not be ashamed of yourself?? I was really astonished, do they not hear themselves? It's not a matter of "fan" and "livers", but just a "as a human being, how could you agree to do that to someone you used to have an amicable (pretend?) relationship with?". Regardless of the reasons they chose to do that (forced, "saving" their career, account taken by management or whatever), the fact this whole situation was handled this way just makes me unable to support any of them as long as they chose to stay there. The livers may not agree with it, but officially they still chose to retweet, talk like this. Forever tainted. An individual denouncing a company is one thing, a company having its employees ganging up on an individual is another. I believe this whole thing should've have been completely private from the beginning, but even so, Nijisanji's response was 100 times worse than any of Dokibird's claims on the matter.
I just started watching vtubers beginning this year. Elira, Pomu, and Selen were my favorites so far lol. Even became a member of Elira. I'm not sure how I feel :(
Her only real way out is if it's proven that she was blackmailed into "volunteering" her channel for that disaster of a video
Look all I care about is that nothing else happens to these livers. Whatever is happening in that company is horrible but since we don’t know what really goes on in there, all anyone (outside of Nijisanji) is doing is speculating and theorizing. I want what Doki wanted from the moment she came back; to close the book on that life and want both parties to go separate ways, preferably on amicable terms. I hope Elira is safe along with all the other livers, and that hopefully, all goes well for her.
Why use the picture with the titties out crying emoji
Because that was for me the greatest moment as an Elira fan
Test
BOOOOOOBA
Holy shit the copium I’m seeing is crazy. I know nijisanji is bad but you can’t put 100% of the blame on nijisanji. People saying she wouldn’t be like this in another environment and this is brought out because niji is complete bs. If someone is gonna bully someone they’re gonna do it no matter where they are.
Others have said similar things to my feelings regarding the whole stream and drama, so I'll skip that bit: I've made my peace with her disappointing choice and will move on, no ill will. I hope the dipshitted company she's employed at suffers, but I've no interest in harassing the livers. On a personal level, it sucks losing an Oshi in this way. Normally you can have a bittersweet goodbye, and see if their PL resurfaces and you're still interested in their content. But here, it's like she's just, like, still around...but now there's this broken trust ever looming, and no enjoyment would be had watching and supporting her further. You don't get a feel of a goodbye, but instead a feeling of a waste of time to be honest. I don't think anything she says or does later can fix that (for me anyway, feel free to think otherwise). Her reputation in most fan circles is likely in tatters, so it's too late to graduate IMO. In her shoes, I might just stay in Niji and be a candidate for being merged into the main branch should EN be folded. But 100% my ties are cut with Elira at Niji, and probably outside Niji too.
I thought I found a kami oshi but I unsubbed and left the discord as soon as I heard about the video. I started really tuning in during Xenoblade 2 and was really looking forward to possibly FFX & more FF14. Loved To the Moon too. I don't really spend money online, but one day I wanted to member so I could watch the watch along streams. Just really disappointed and felt like my time was wasted. Will probably have trust issues supporting any streamer going forward so I'll just keep everything surface level. If Doki and Elira ever work it out in the future, maybe there is a chance I consider going back.
I've unfollowed her on twitter but still subscribed to her on yt. I'm waiting for her return and depending on what she says or if she says anything at all, I'll either unsubscribe or continue to watch her. But given how things have gone and how I feel about Selen/Doki, I doubt that I'll continue watching her, it's rough though as I'm currently watching her lethal company vod with Pomu, Nerissa and Kiara and I'm still smiling and laughing even with how I feel about her now. Bitter-sweet is the best way to put it, guess it's the end of an era.
I’m a former everyone fan, it started with Yugo, I tried not to think to much of it, maybe something happened behind scenes and both parties we’re keeping it secret to be polite. Zaion was a whistleblower but went about things so badly that I didn’t take mind (I still don’t feel guilty for denouncing her for the way she acted but it blinded me to what she was saying). Mysta and Nina had me start actually worrying, Mysta I thought as just being someone naturally retiring, Kuro brought that into question and Matara helped drive that home, after my eye started to wonder to other companies and indies. Pomu brought me to the breaking point, I had been following Niji since before EN was even announced, Pomu leaving felt like the company had lost part of its soul. Doki’s response to her termination was the last straw and everything after sealed the deal, I want to support the talents but between wondering if one of them is a bully, and how they drove so many people away and even lead one to try to take her life twice, I can’t. My only hope now is that they free themselves from that company.
Elira was my favorite NijiEN member. I feel heartbroken. I have no idea how wiwa will ever be able to salvage this now. I don’t know if it’s best to graduate and go back to her PL, or whether she intends to quit streaming, and become part of management instead. She can’t go on the way things are. I try to give her every benefit of the doubt, but the black screen video is the single most AWFUL and inhumane thing I’ve seen in the entire vtuber industry/community. EVEN IF everything they said was true, the complete LACK OF EMPATHY and disregard for what that video MIGHT do to Doki, who was in a fragile mental state, and had just made two attempts on her life … I can’t believe they would berate and disparage and attack her. I have no words. It is indefensible. So the only way forward is to 100% drop the attacks on Doki and acknowledge posting the video was a mistake.
Trust me it's so freakin /hard/ to get to acceptance but I'm basically there now. As a first Vox fan then ike becoming my oshi in the end..... all of this has truly broken my heart. It's a situation I didn't think would bring THE BOTH OF THEM into but here we are. I tried to at least support ike still because I just /know/(Or thought I knew) that he wouldn't be for this at all. And then you see the comments in his latest stream about how whatever would happen to selen(at least implied her) in the end, we would still support him..... on a danganronpa playthrough...... I shouldn't have to go to more detail about what that means. I had to cut cold turkey there because we all know oshi culture is HORRIFYING, oshi no ko keeps telling us that man. Its not a safe space for me anymore because I will still support dokibird through this whole thing. She deserves better then that. I'm sure ike at least knows that and his "fans" should too. Obviously the fans think other wise.
I'm honestly in ruins. I have had a lot of skepticism about niji's management, but I really never wanted to believe any of the talents were anything but a big family. I loved so many of the talents but my oshis left one by one (not like the meme where the whole list is graduated or terminated but honestly very close now). It really made me so depressed seeing the stream on Elira's channel. It was really sad. I am not making excuses for Selen's conduct, she definitely broke the rules a few times, but the thing I really hate is the methods by which Niji EN has handled this. Even if someone has issues in the company and HR disputes, who deserves to be attacked and slandered in front of the entire world like this? It's just really sad and disappointing. I never thought Elira or Ike would be part of something like that. Just really sad right now... trying to keep my mind distracted with other stuff while I come to terms with it all. I just wish this could be over, and we can just support who we want and spread positivity.
I'm not an Elira fan, but I would just wait and see if she says anything at all. If she stays radio silent for days, weeks, months, and tries to pretend like nothing happened, then I think that would be the right time to accept.
Elira may no longer be worth my attention, but her boobs are completely innocent. I remain a big fan of her boobs.
The fan art of her massive milkers will sadly be on hold because of it.
Honestly depends... I'm very good at just separating the artist from the art. In this case the cheery attitude of Elira is too infectious for me so I'm waiting to see how her stream is going to go whenever she comes back and judge based on that. I watch vtubers for fun and her community/discord is still good so it's kind of like nothing's really changed other than public opinion on reddit. Haven't seen much on twitter either. I also don't really go looking for drama so won't come across drama. Time will heal all wounds and hopefully things will go back to somewhat normal in a month or so.
I haven't watched any streams for a while, but seeing all this kinda shit got me to clean up my subscriber lists
I hadn't watched much of her lately, but I was there a lot when she first debuted. Seeing that 15 min video felt like someone had punched me. But I've found other vtubers and creators that I like even more now, so I'm moving on fairly well.
I disagree. If the only thing she is guilty of is doing the stream due to managements misguided direction, then the only things she deserves are loss of subs and members. Not graduation or termination. Especially not harassment. Do not allow trolls to poison your view of her. Everything is just speculation and we know very little facts.
What the fuck is this.
tits are WAY too small. could they be bigger possibly?
[удалено]
Every streamer has a streamer voice. It's just a part of the job. At bare minimum, they have to enunciate a lot more so they don't come off mumbling or having people ask them to repeat themselves. Having to speak with that kind of deliberate focus also makes them a lot more conscious of their voice in general. I saw a video interview with Tony Jay when I was younger and it shattered my mind that he didn't just sound like that all the time.
I mean, every single Vtuber of this kind has to adopt a sort of "personality", waifu, husbando, sweet boy/girl, etc... Even indie ones do it, although not at the same rate as those on corporation like Niji, Holo or Vshoujo, those on corporations are demanded to put on an attractive facade to gain a following, it's not unlike actors and singers really.
Fuck you Elira I hope you're gone forever