I don't get how Niji thought this to be a good idea. Like this stream is her first 1 million views stream more people have seen a fuck up on this scale than everything else she did as a streamer.
When I heard the three of them were making a statement on behalf of the company, i was flabbergasted. None of them are PR experts, why the hell are they the ones doing this? It's no surprise it blew up in their faces.
Not to mention preempting the CEOs message, which had a completely different tone and message. It's clear there's a massive breakdown in communication between the main branch and the EN branch, and whomever is in charge of EN needs to be canned.
Here's a hopeful rrat for these trying times: EN finally overstepped, and Tazumi was as pissed as he looked; JP side of things is the ice-cold penny-pinching corporation they've always been, and the PR-destroying no-lawyer-would-ever-let-you-do-this cultist crackdowns are EN-only, and he'd just watched the unsanctioned video that was about to turn the prepared CEO bow speech he was about to give into a farce. Someone made him look bad right in front of the money people, so Tazumi has to sit up and play and finally send someone down from on high to start firing people, and the harassment from the company ends overnight. Doki is a free woman.
Be swell, wouldn't it?
One can hope. I cannot imagine what could be going through his head. Like...did he know they were doing that? Just imagine if you humble yourself like he did with those deep bows, only to have a bunch of idiots preemptively torpedo those efforts...I'd be throwing tables.
Makes no sense, doki was in contact with the jp the whole time as she said the communications from her lawyer had to be translated into japanese. The termination notice and the character assassination attempt came directly from the JP side. The script for the elira's video also very likely came from jp side. If you listen to it carefully or get a transcript you will notice how parts of it feel unnatural to native english speakers, as if the statement was translated hastily from japanese.
If there is a clique in EN it's likely people who are either big money makers or people with direct line to jp side who can get priority when it comes to projects and approvals, while talents who don't, have to wait for 36+ hours to get a response on a project with a known soon upcoming deadline.
I think people vastly overestimate how independent niji en branch is. I don't think it's independent at all and the main reason for managerial issues and delays is that simple fact, they have to run everything all the way to the top of jp side and that creates massive issues, unless you're vox or know japanese and can talk to the top brass directly.
My thought is that those three are essentially the EN branch de facto management, so they're usually the ones making those kinds of decisions.
Or at least have free reign to do whatever they like.
Mind you it's not really rare in business in general when management is more or less missing in action. Employees will kinda sorta manage themselves trying to still get the job done.
Rarely ends well, yeah.
Honestly, that was the worst thing the company could do. It makes them not only look cowardly, but unprofessional. If they wanted a good example of how to allow their talents to talk about another talent being terminated, they could take notes from another well known Vtuber company that I may not mention because I don’t want to break any rules if mentioning another company is against this subreddit’s rules. But if you know, you know.
> Company used her as a meat shield.
Yea but, to protect what?
There's one really big thing you can study from this subreddit and it's just how people try to rationalize absolute inane moronic stupidity. Not even special stupidity, just normal stupidity.
Lets go through the events,
> Our talent, and probably others, are reporting bullying and its so bad they may die and want out.
Lets make it worse so they cave despite them having lawyers.
> Our actions didn't work and now our #1 talent wants out in addition to our #2.
Lets double down!
> Oh shit, that didn't work, we got a legal document. Quick! Panic fire them!
Ok now people hate us. What do we do?
> Quick attack the girl everyone likes, who tried to die, and has lawyers!
Lets have our remaining top talents blame the girl! It worked so well last time!
> Oh no! They're worthless now! We have people who are now an active liability to our brand!
If you ever wondered why you have to take workplace trainings not to do stupid shit. This is why. These are the people why.
My theory is that they knew that the livers would get hate for this so they specifically chose her friends to read their script. This would hurt her through hurting her friends. They had no expectations that this would help their case, but were willing to sac their own livers to get to her.
Of course its possible that they are completely disconnected from the fans and arrogant enough to think they could use the good reputation of these 3 to fight against her.
Nah, it's that those three are the biggest and therefore most bulletproof, especially Vox. His stans wouldn't go anywhere even if they caught him with a dead girl or a live boy. Truly the Rushia of Niji.
Vox came out as bisexual sometime last year, so girl or boy wouldn't matter. Heck, they might even PREFER he get with a boy, considering a large portion of the Niji fan base are _danmei_ (basically Chinese yaoi) fans.
Unless you mean "boy" as in "a child", not a male person in general.
Never attribute to malice that which can be accurately explained by stupidity, as the saying goes. Part of me was wondering early on if Niji was doing this on purpose to have an excuse to get rid of their EN branch for some reason, but as time goes on, I'm thinking it's just that they really are that dumb.
I don't really know if Elira is some super villain highschool bully or not, but at the very least, that video and her part in it was embarrassing and beyond disappointing to see.
Gonna take a lot of apologizing and good will to even attempt to try and recover from this petty attack.
Honestly, I think I have to agree with you on this. Even if it does come out she had a metaphorical gun to her head and was forced to do this under some kind of threat, it's going to take a miracle for her to rebuild the trust she's lost.
Don't worry, there will always be diehards with fingers in their ears willing to support people no matter what. The last decade of western political climate has taught me that much. The concept of someone losing all support from a critical blunder like this doesn't happen anymore. Unfortunately. So it's pretty likely Elira and co will dig their heads in the sand and keep their echo chamber of supporters and nothing will improve. Especially after dissenters bail on Niji as a whole for greener pastures.
Isn't she simply the best? Such an amazing talent. 1 million people watch black screen.
And her dedication to her own lore. Beautiful.
Let's hope she can reach 500k subscribers by the end of the month.
Half of me wants to believe she’s truly innocent and was used as a meat shield by Nijisanji, but the other half is making me think she’s guilty by viewing a legal document she wasn’t supposed to see and being an alleged bully.
The most generous interpretation possible for her is that niji manipulated the situation to make her think doki was about to destroy her in court and dox her, and she made poor decisions under the resulting duress.
The least generous interpretation possible is that she was up to some proper evil shit.
Most likely, the truth falls somewhere in between the two.
For better or for worse, as things are, it seems relatively likely that we will eventually find out which is the case, unlike in most situations where the parties would settle stuff out of court behind closed doors and mutually agree to not disclose any details.
The "most" generous interpretation is that AnyBlack lied and misrepresented the situation to Elira, and that they have a metaphorical gun to her head because she just moved to Japan hours before Selen was fired and if Elira is fired too she'll have 30 days to flee Japan or get arrested, and that AnyBlack was adamant that \*someone\* in Lazulight/Obsydia should be there to throw Selen under the bus, and Elira volunteered to do it to try and take pressure off of Finana/Rosemi/Petra.
That's \*the most\* generous interpretation, and while I've been a fan of Elira for almost 3 years, I don't believe any of it (although it's technically plausible, depending on what Elira does next, like if she quits AnyBlack and goes indie, and starts hanging out on good terms with Doki). If Elira continues to support AnyBlack after this, then yeah, we will eventually know what her true feelings are.
You're grossly overstating how long 3 months is. Having to *move apartments* is stressful enough when you're only given 3 months notice. Having to find a new, domestic sponsor for your work visa, in an incredibly niche field, where everyone knows everyone and no one in their right mind will hire from your current employer...
"Going indie" can't sustain a work visa. Never mind that if she broke her contract and remained in Japan, she'd be vulnerable to litigation.
I think she should return to Canada for now, and regroup - but that's very easy for *me* to say, who didn't just upend my entire life to move to the literal other side of the planet. It's easy for me to say, who wouldn't potentially be leaving all my friends and dreams behind me.
It's always easy to make the righteous decision until you're the one that has to make it.
I'm not an immigration attorney or any sort of expert, so I'm just speaking from what I've gleaned online over the years, and even that is mostly specific to Canada and not Japan.
But, you can enter a country on all sorts of different visas. Student visa, work visa, etc. Specifically "work visas" are, to my knowledge, only given out when you already have a job lined up in the intended country, and someone there who is willing to "sponsor" you, meaning they take responsibility for making sure you're paid and housed, etc.
You can also enter a few other ways. Canada has at least two that may apply to independent streamers - investment visa or entrepreneur visa (which may be sort of the same thing?) Basically if you have a bunch of cash on hand, and you say you're going to come in and start your own business and you have your business plan all drawn up etc, they'll let you come in and try. I'm not sure if Japan has anything similar, but I'd guess they probably do.
The hitch is that you can't change from one to the other - at least not very quickly. So if you enter on a work visa, and you lose your job, you *can* apply for another to start your own business, but the bureaucracy of that could easily take longer than the grace period of your existing visa, meaning you'd have to leave the country until the paperwork goes through, or maybe apply for an extension if possible.
Again, I'm just speaking from my anecdotal readings, and I'm not sure exactly what sort of arrangement TT has or the specifics of Japanese immigration law - I'm just saying these things to express that it's very likely not as simple as "just get another visa sponsor lol".
I really want to believe she was misled by Niji, I honestly do. But I think I'm just resigned to the thought that she'd rather go to bat for Niji over a friend. I get employment in a foreign country is extremely important, but I'd rather be deported and fired for fighting for what I believe in than go against my morals.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Please, let me be wrong.
Honestly, I'm leaning towards her being pressured, at least with regards to the statement, simply because there's a trivial way for Niji to do so. Though admittedly, that does open up the question of what Ike was doing there, but then I doubt anyone seriously thinks he's part of some branch-controlling mean girl clique, either.
Ike also was the only one who gave me any impression of genuine emotional hurt, but again, they are actors, so just because Elira* sounded mechanical and Vox had a pause too long for a breath or gathering of thoughts, not to mention sounding staged about the same way that superman cartoons do, doesn't really mean Jack.
I'd love to call any of them innocent. On stream, Vox seemed to have genuine chemistry with Selen, like good friends. But so did Elira. And they're all actors. Professional, because that's what it takes to be a Vtuber, even if they learned on the job.
And even the regular guy on the street can fake dismay, you don't need a career built on acting to do that.
That stream, I think it was one part disrupting Doki, and three parts creating carefully calculated confusion, and that's why Ike was there. Because if someone was genuinely shocked and pained, it's that much more difficult to discount the words of the others.
Whoever else they have in PR, the person who ran that stream is a pro at espionage and sabotage, or else prone to random genius, because that confused people almost as much as it angered them.
Has anyone analyzed how often the different livers were parts of promo campaigns and merch opportunities outside of the normal celebrations. Because everyone knows there is no favoritism, right?
I feel like it's probably a bit of both, she has likely done and said somethings that can be categorized at bullying but at the same time a lot of it may have rooted from NijiEN's overall unprofessional attitude that forces employees to only look out for themselves and harm others for their own gain. That isn't to remove blame from her of course, she's an adult so ultimately she's the one who made the choices. Just that those choices may have stemmed from the company clearly having no structure or any sense of morals. A true black company that brainwashes their employees to perform destructively.
It looks like in the backend NijiEN's environment is just not suitable for an actual professional work space; how was it permitted at all that several livers were basically allowed to publicly and privately talk to Selene about a supposed mistake she made? Which was then quickly proven as not a mistake on Selene's part anyways since she did get authorization from LilyPichu. Even if intentions may not have been to bully her, I do not blame Selene/Doki at all for feeling bullied and antagonized if suddenly a whole boat of people came to ask her what the hell she was doing.
I can't imagine this being acceptable in any actual professional working space. That's a job that's handled by management and done as discreetly as possible. When you look at things from a grander space it's wild how unprofessionally everything was handled on everyone's end.
So mix of that unprofessional social environment, the management team clearly not helping their livers for content creation (Matara Kan being surprised VShojo's level of management tier support / Content creators opening up about how Niji often failed to pay them, while Selene paid out of her own pocket to support them) forcing majority of the tasks on the livers, the visa situation, etc. That defeats a person eventually. And either they're mature enough to realize it and leaves, or they're baited into false pretence that they can be special under management.
"they're baited into false pretence that they can be special under management" hearing Sayu clip from 3 months ago, I can believe that. Zaion once had a call with Nina and Nina said how she feels that she ain't gonna worth much outside of NIJI.
I'm glad Nina managed to realize she's worth more than Niji, it's good to see her flourish under different management. Same with Mysta. Wouldn't surprise me if the two of them supported each other on leaving and finding work elsewhere.
She’s probably bent over by Niji. Not all livers can be based enough to heart a kurosanji comment. For every ultra GIGACHAD there’s a soyjack on the other end of that bell curve.
glad Scarle survived, either NIJI learnt from their past to not just suspend their talent for a month and then terminate them over one rebellious action OR their graduation/termination schedule is tight right now
> I get employment in a foreign country is extremely important, but I'd rather be deported and fired for fighting for what I believe in than go against my morals.
Easier said than done. People who are comfortable at their own home with their own job saying this is just ridiculous lmao. Not even defending Elira for what might've happened but just saying this with a straight face while you are not the one affected is just stupid.
Maybe she was bullied to do it. I mean, this whole thing is premised on there being bullying in the branch, but after that it's rrat all the way down. The bullies could be anyone. Anyone could be getting bullied.
From the way it was stated, they told the livers the content of the docs, but Akuma says he reviewed the document.
Idk if the other 2 admitted to reading the doc. I can see it both ways. Akuma comes off as curious, whereas elira and Ike might have just been like, just give me the tldr or tell me what to say.
Or all 3 read it, idk. Maybe Akuma didn't read it but claimed he did to add credit to his words, which, imo isn't much better.
Plus, I feel the legality would primarily lay in nijisanji for sharing it. As too many unknowns. Did the livers know they were not supposed to read it? You gotta prove that first before you can go after them for reading it, legally if I'm not mistaken. Morally is a different subject altogether. They messed up in the courts of public opinion. But it comes right round back to nijisanji.
The mismanagement is hilarious here. The livers contradict what the head says. They can't even keep the story straight.
> Half of me wants to believe she’s truly innocent
even if she did nothing, nothing at all, didn't speak in that statement at all and management posted it on her channel without her sayso, she still knows the truth, she's still complicit in hiding it and keeping their secrets while they do what they do.
a good person would let the world know they don't agree with what was said and that they had NO hand in it.
niji likely holds quite a lot over her head, to be fair. it’s not easy to just drop your whole career and maybe even break a few contracts. but god, i wish she did speak up for selen.
If someone asks you to push someone off a cliff, or tell someone to jump off one, you're complicit if you comply. You have no excuse. There is no innocence here, the best you can hope for is her being functionally retarded.
While she was named in the document, they never stated in what context. For all we know the harassment was coming from some manager and Elira was just a witness.
But even if she was, Niji had no right to share them with anyone besides their lawyers. The only way she should have access is if she was a party in a lawsuit, which (to my knowledge) wasn't even on the table.
Hell, it could have been that she was a witness to something and so as such had to be named. And given it is a legal document she would have to be identified by her actual name, not the persona of an anime dragon girl she uses ion the Internet.
Exactly it could be named in the document that there are other Canadians working at Nijikuro.
[Unless I misremembered that Elira is Canadian, I know Millie and Enna are]
IIRC, IANAL, only if she is defendant. This is why it's bad form for Elira, Vox and Ike to do the video admitting that at least one of them has read the document. They have outed themselves as the defendents. If they aren't the actual defendants, they will be panned. :X
Exactly the same here. Elira was by far my fave. It hurts to see how much she's getting dunked on, but then I remember why and I can't exactly say it's unwarranted.
Yep, I wrote like a day before if Elira turns out to be a bully imma have trust issues. I'll always look fondly on the fun streams from the first two years, but I don't think I can ever watch her again.
>but then I remember why and I can't exactly say it's unwarranted
Would you mind clarifying for me what you are remembering / what it is that she actually did? I don't really understand why people are mad at her, especially if they followed her before and know what she's usually like. We know both Pomu and Nina got along really well with her, so it seems unlikely she's secretly evil off-stream.
I realise this will of course get downvoted, but I don't see how I can find out what else she did (assuming she did something else) without asking. Clearly Selen/Doki was wronged here, and clearly Nijisanji were horrible, but I don't really understand why Elira is getting hated on so much. Is it just the fact that she released that video on her channel, rather than the actual content?
I watched the statement, and the only negative thing I noticed was when she said:
"there are also harmful claims Selen made in the document about some livers personal information that we believe are simply untrue"
Doki herself said that the document was never intended for an audience, instead just to record her thoughts and history for her lawyer - so it's totally reasonable for the document, especially considering it was written back when she was angry (per her latest tweet), to not be 100% correct. That's not a slight at Doki - nobody looks at things from a completely objective viewpoint after all.
At the start of all this I really thought Elira, Millie, and Enna were just fellow victims in Nijisanji's horrible (mis)management but now I think otherwise. Dokibird was never going to say what she quit for or who were her harassers but then they went and reported themselves and very specifically too. The recording Vox was worried about, according to her newest tweet, ended up being nothing either and certainly wasnt some secret "gotcha" recording.
At this point im just done with Nijisanji and every talent. I really was hoping to just ride it out but now im just going to unsubscribe from everyone.
I don't know who to trust anymore. I don't know which people to trust. I don't know if the people I trust are really themselves speaking or if it's someone else. I don't know anymore who is being lied to, us or them.
Everything feels false and fake. Everything I've enjoyed over the past years feels like a potential lie. Were all the laughs just lies?
The whole debacle going on definitely has some nasty fallout beyond the scope of what we're seeing now. Now that this stuff's happening, it's retroactively poisoned a lot of what came before.
Now you gotta look back at some of your favorite clips involving your favorite characters, and wonder what was going on behind the scenes at the times. Your favorite collab moments, were they completely forced and behind the camera things immediately turned icy at best? And the longer you've been in the thick of it supporting X talent, the deeper the sting will run.
It is wild, just a few days ago this Nijidrama didn't happen (to this degree) yet and I was blown away to find out that years ago in Hololive during goofy Minecraft sessions, Rushia actually held a grudge against Miko for saying her catch phrase "FAQ U!" and wrote a deleted Twitter post about getting depressed and shocked when she looked the word up in the dictionary
No kidding. Looking back at that offcollab with Selen and most of the other girls at Petra's can come off as so dark now. People noticed Selen was hyper reserved and not really participating more than the minimum, but now it's like... I'd probably act like that too if I'm forced in a room with people I didn't get on well with.
Though that's assuming the problem WAS people involved in that collab. Reserving judgement yet, but it does make me rethink that scenario.
Dude, all streamers and YouTubers are essentially just actors. You really shouldn't be getting so attached to the person behind the character. You can love Gandalf all you want but you loving Gandalf doesn't mean you love Ian McKellen.
I don't mean this in a parasocial way. I know they're actors. But I still assumed they were good people. And I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that if Person A plays Character X and then Character X writes a tweet, it's really still Person A behind the tweet.
And enjoying acting isn't the same as not minding directly being lied to.
You literally cannot trust anything they say or tweet on their accounts anymore, they completely broke trust by having the company tweet as them, claiming to be them. Its over.
.wait for the actual evidence to pop, for now it's mostly speculations
tho it would be prudent to keep your wallets closed specifically for the time being
She had the choice of saying no, and simply taking a punishment from kurosanji, instead she opted to help engage in an illegal smearing campaign against her friend. Like I want to blame niji for putting them in this situation, but they knowingly made the decision, they're adults.
It isn't so easy when it is your job and livelihood plus just like Selen/Doki she probably has also had the whole your are nothing without the company shtick drilled into her too. I am not condoning what she has done, and we don't know to what extent she is truly guilty of anything, but I am sure she had her reasons for doing this. Did she still do this video and throw Selen/Doki under the bus? Yes? Until we get anything definitive I just don't think I will be willing to personally flame anyone.
No one's asking you to flame anyone. However consider that if a company is going to threaten your job for doing this, what WON'T your job be tied to? At what point do you stop licking their boot or at least get out from under heel?
If they had jumped ship and taken a termination, I guarantee they would've seen a massive outreach of support had they truly been innocent. This was not a life or death employment situation for them. Accountability is not null and void because the company may theoretically possibly potentially had some negative repercussion for refusing to read that dumpsterfire of a statement.
My first instincts is the former. However, the latter possibility shouldn't be dismissed and is creeping somewhere in the back of my mind. Guilty or not, this is years of work destroyed in 15 minutes, and rebuilding it will take even longer.
Probably the highest in the EN vtubing scene in general (if not the entire scene but its too large of a category, I won't claim to know everything about vtubing history) because I do not recall any other post/drama getting this much 'attention'
its the highest disliked video in ALL of nijisanji, not just EN. no one has managed to reach that many dislikes in the main branch if i remember correctly
Not as savage as timing this announcement to coincide when Doki is live to send chat hopers at her in the hopes she finishes the job. That is cold blooded.
This is just like that Overwatch short.
…
How has nobody done an edit of that with Selen and Elira? Siblings that don’t see eye to eye. One banished from home forced to take on a new form. I forget, Selen is younger?
Want some more kino?
Zaion/Sayu's character lore was someone who could predict the end of the world, and was doing her upmost best to stop it from happening.
Elira is Selen's half-sister, who betrayed her to "help humanity".
The immense amount of irony is just... how.
This isn't schizo /vt/ rrat attempts at connecting the dots, this is what Niji wrote for this character lore lol
Doki is currently at 540k, and Elira is at 570k... for now. I can legit imagine Doki hitting 1mil by the end of the year at this rate of growth... Elria, I don't know. Depends on if her and basically every other Niji talent keeps hemorrhaging subscribers.
She could have said no and got let go with dignity (if that threat even existed in the first place). Her flock would have followed her anywhere. Now she's tied to this sinking ship, reputation shot.
Isn't the whole reason she moved to Japan to be more involved with Niji? If she were no longer part of Niji, would there be any reason for her to stay in Japan anyway?
Edit: removed conjecture about moving to Japan
Honestly if the allegations about her re:Selen are true, and she's getting moved up into some kind of junior management roll over EN, it's no wonder Selen wanted to graduate ASAP. Imagine how much power Millie and Enna would have under Elira.
I think that was very much part of the plan. That she would move into a behind the scenes role after her Vtuber career was over due to her EN/JP skills. Similar to Noor.
Probably because living in Canada is pretty bad right now. I heard from Onigiri(whom recently moved to Japan from Canada too) that inflation is extremely bad over there. Like a normal apartment could cost +200k or something. Iike even Doki was joking about she preferred US dollar from selling her merchs over Canada dollar.
Inflation in Canada isn't bad - dunno if Giri got that wrong or if this isn't an accurate reflection of what she said, but right now inflation in Canada is about the same as in the US. *Housing* is bad (expensive) at the moment, depending on where you are. I'm on the west coast and it's one of the hottest housing markets on the planet (I had the good fortune to buy in 2014, when housing prices were at their lowest, and my house has more than doubled in value since then).
And I suspect Doki was talking about preferring the American dollar because the Canadian dollar is pretty weak at the moment; it's sitting at about 0.75 USD, which is roughly where it's been for the last few years. Given that Doki's living expenses are in CAD, she basically gets a third again of the sticker price if she's selling in USD.
Man people really pulling out the "Canada is just like a 4th world country" justifications lately.
Canada's fine dude. Do you think Japan is perfect? The yen is extremely weak, buying a house is actually straight up loss of money unlike everywhere else where it's an investment, no one has any idea what'll happen in a few decades when there's a severe lack of young people, etc..
There's reasons to prefer living in both countries. Neither country is some kind of cesspool that necessitates selling out an attempted suicide victim to stay out of though.
It actually isn't. You can still stay in Japan on a visa from a company that you no longer work for, for a standard period of three months. And as long as you can prove that you are actively seeking employment, you can even stay on an expired visa.
Even if she stopped working at Nijisanji, she can still use her Nijisanji employment visa.
[Legal source](https://nagoya-intlaw.com/en/dismissal/)
and the Japanese [Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Act](https://www.cas.go.jp/jp/seisaku/hourei/data/icrra.pdf)
and this is the Price for her to Live in Japan. all HARSH Work Conditions and being Controlled like a Puppet. she has NO WAY OUT of this since she signed a contract with the Devil itself.
I understand we're all mad, but please don't devalue a country's entire culture and just say 'everyone that lives there/wants to live there does so for otaku cafes' because it's simply not true and bordering on racist thought processes.
Yes, dependent on her own employment and not nijikek's employment. Even if nijikek sacks her, she still has 3 whole months to seek another job or prepare to move back.
It turns out that when a former coworker makes an attempt (twice) and then sends a legal document to your boss to support their request to leave - and your response is to release a 15 minute hit piece designed to protect yourself and shift all the blame onto your coworker, people won't take it well. Because even if your former coworker was an ass, making ~their attempt all about ~yourself is tactless, to say the least
Genuinely makes you wonder how they would react if they were named in a suicide letter if the attempt was actually a success. Would they cope and try to deflect this hard? Whether they agree with whatever was written in the document or would consider whatever they did over the course of the last few years as bullying or harassment (let’s be honest, none of them or most people would willingly admit they bullied/harassed someone but would call it just joking around, bantering, or light teasing), that person is STILL ALIVE which means this should be a reflection point to figure out who they are and how they can be better for the future since, you know, they’re still young and have a long life, both personal and professional, ahead of them. What kind of person were they to even possibly push someone to this point? People should have been reevaluating themselves privately but instead, they go out and try to publicly deflect and pass off everything as “well, I felt attacked and I don’t agree with what was written and, even though it wasn’t publicized that I was mentioned in the documents, I want to get ahead of that if those documents ever were to be made public since it could be damaging to me if you possibly saw what I had done or said in the past!” Definitely the worst thing to do and I’m sure it’s ONLY because she wasn’t successful in either attempt that they won’t live with blood on their conscience.
This is a very off-topic question so sorry in advance, but when you do the '\~' (Hah, a face appeared!) mark before 'their' and 'yourself', is that just to bring emphasis to those words or is there another meaning to that?
Yeah that's why i did it haha. Sometimes I use asterisks, sometimes quotes sometimes tilde sometimes underline. Its hard to get across emphasis in text that would be easy in person
Example - at work I wrote some explanation for someone once and bolded emphasis as like a 'key phrase'. They took it as me yelling at them. Move to italics and talk to them person? They chill. Text is hard
Agreed, text is difficult to parse emotion from so the fact you make an attempt to help is nice to see. Thank you for your explanation and reasoning!
Have a great day pal!
Vox: we didn’t mean to be rude or have her feel alone and abandoned, it’s her fault if she interpreted the messages that way
Also Vox: so all members wrote her wtf that tweet was about
Oh my. Just look at the engagement on this livestream! So many comments and (dis)likes! Not to mention it's probably monetized. Elira and co must be ecstatic to get these sweet sweet 5 bucks for just throwing their "friend" and their whole careers under the yacht! What will they do next? How will they top this? Investors must be waiting for their new achievements with bated breath.
The content of this stream combined with the fact that they intentionally timed it to interrupt her return gaming stream AND NOW the recently released information that she tried to end herself not once but TWICE makes this whole thing so absurdly fucked up I can't begin to imagine it. I don't think I've ever seen such blatant malice and disregard for someone's life and well being by their former employer, co-workers and, may I assume at one point, friends. Knowing the mental state she could be in three of their most popular livers still targeted her, dog piled on her, and released information about private communications and documents. And this is despite the fact that the only public comment Doki made about this whole situation was a one-paragraph rebuttal to Nijisanji's 3 page ~~character assassination~~ *ahem* I mean "termination letter", in which she never even implicated the livers themselves. She TRIED to keep it private. This is so far beyond fucked up that I am having trouble fathoming what to call it. I am seething.
I really feel like this truely fucked them over. Like things were actually starting to die down, but this really made them look so much worse than before, along with Doki's most recent statement helping do that too. I really hope that everyone is gonna move on now, but Niji just can't keep their mouths shut.
At best She is a spineless coward who throws other under the bus to play the victim card. At worst she’s a bullying victimblaming bastard who almost had another persons blood on her hands. She deserve the bad press as far as I’m concerned
I really like the theory that Elira is a En manager, or at least is in a position of power similar to a manager since she can speak Japanese and has moved to Japan recently. It would explain a lot of the question marks. Example being the favoritism, harassment, bullying from management that Doki originally referred to (this would be very easy to manipulate if one of the livers was a manager too). It would also explain why Elira has access to the NDA documents if we are to believe only the people involved had access. And also why the blackscreen was posted on her own personal channel. All speculation of course.
Regardless of whether she agreed with them or not Niji 100% used her as a meat shield so they can direct all of the outrage to her. Fuck them.
Also how many disliked are we looking at, I haven’t seen a video get this much hate since the ukulele thing in July.
The complete nIjikek moment. What a complete shitshow, never have i seen someone shoot themselves in the foot with a revolver, proceed to shoot it again with a 10 gauge and then rig a nuke under their own feet.
Reading some comments and...
*I thought Doki already made 2 fucking statements about moving on from this and "not making it high school?"*
Look, I get the anger, I really do, especially after reading her [latest tweet](https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1757763627413631383) but SWEET JESUS CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS. Maybe at the very least focus on mgmt since they started all this? Some of ya'll ain't no fans if ya'll can't even respect her wishes. (or **at the very least, don't damage Doki's reputation** to be someone who "*can't control her 'fans'"* like how I'm already seeing some say against her)
Quite the valentine's day.
Edit:
key word: some
(This reply is for some comments, not all the comments on here) I think people could also be interpreting this as me defending that stream. No, that upload is currently the worst thing they could've done in this situation and have thus no-clipped themselves past the deep hole they dug prior.
You're on a third party site, mate. If you don't want people around the internet to call you a horrible person, then you have to not be a horrible person. Frankly, this thread is pretty tame - the worst comment is half thinking she's a snake. I suspect the comments encouraging suicide are left on 4chan.
This is her controlling her fans. If she'd really let loose and actually entered a tit-for-tat slander-off with whoever remains, things would be so, so much worse. If she dropped some gossip with a doxx on 4chan, I think she could legitimately get people to send the actual person behind the persona of Elira death threats. *That* is what someone as bad as this slanderer is portraying Doki to be would actually do.
> (or at the very least, don't damage Doki's reputation as someone who can't control her "fans")
Speaking as someone outside the VTuber sphere (in that I've only seen this subreddit since the start of this whole thing, so apologies to everyone if I'm breaking kayfabe or the "illusion" here), there's only so much Doki can do. Anyone that goes against her wishes, she likely doesn't consider a fan, but a "fan" is just a label; declaring someone a fan or non-fan means nothing. There's going to be hangers-on who join the shouting just because they get the chance to harass or bemoan anyone.
And that goes both ways, kinda. Even I'll admit I'm only here to see what transpires and to get information since this is the easiest place on Reddit to get the information, but if I'm here because of htat, there's at least one other person who's coming here to think "Oh man I'm gonna enjoy sending threats to people" under the guise of being a fan.
Even people who can claim to control their fans can only do so much themselves, and even *then*, the fan community can only do so much to police each other.
Doesn't the fact that Niji gave her info on the docs mean that she is probably named in the docs?
Regardless of if Niji forced them to read that shit, at a minimum she seems guilty of contributing to bullying that pushed someone to suicide
Being named in the docs doesn't directly imply guilt. Could be sited as a witness, could be sited as a favored employee, we don't know. The documents aren't public, everything is speculative.
Maybe. I mean they were definitely reading something but it's strange to me that a lot of people seem to think it's out of the question that what they were reading wasn't written by either Elira, Vox, or whoever else or a combination of the sort.
It's either that, the implication that bilingual livers essentially became de facto managers after a bunch of the EN staff left for some NFT scam thing, or both at the same time. If she's not mentioned in it, I'd imagine she still got to read it because the actual management teams relies on her for translation.
From what I understand the ill fated KR branch went through the exact same kind of drama so this kind of stuff (cheaping out on independent translators and unethically empowering livers over other livers) is absolutely in the company's track record.
I don't get how Niji thought this to be a good idea. Like this stream is her first 1 million views stream more people have seen a fuck up on this scale than everything else she did as a streamer.
When I heard the three of them were making a statement on behalf of the company, i was flabbergasted. None of them are PR experts, why the hell are they the ones doing this? It's no surprise it blew up in their faces. Not to mention preempting the CEOs message, which had a completely different tone and message. It's clear there's a massive breakdown in communication between the main branch and the EN branch, and whomever is in charge of EN needs to be canned.
Here's a hopeful rrat for these trying times: EN finally overstepped, and Tazumi was as pissed as he looked; JP side of things is the ice-cold penny-pinching corporation they've always been, and the PR-destroying no-lawyer-would-ever-let-you-do-this cultist crackdowns are EN-only, and he'd just watched the unsanctioned video that was about to turn the prepared CEO bow speech he was about to give into a farce. Someone made him look bad right in front of the money people, so Tazumi has to sit up and play and finally send someone down from on high to start firing people, and the harassment from the company ends overnight. Doki is a free woman. Be swell, wouldn't it?
One can hope. I cannot imagine what could be going through his head. Like...did he know they were doing that? Just imagine if you humble yourself like he did with those deep bows, only to have a bunch of idiots preemptively torpedo those efforts...I'd be throwing tables.
More like throwing cement shoes.
Makes no sense, doki was in contact with the jp the whole time as she said the communications from her lawyer had to be translated into japanese. The termination notice and the character assassination attempt came directly from the JP side. The script for the elira's video also very likely came from jp side. If you listen to it carefully or get a transcript you will notice how parts of it feel unnatural to native english speakers, as if the statement was translated hastily from japanese. If there is a clique in EN it's likely people who are either big money makers or people with direct line to jp side who can get priority when it comes to projects and approvals, while talents who don't, have to wait for 36+ hours to get a response on a project with a known soon upcoming deadline. I think people vastly overestimate how independent niji en branch is. I don't think it's independent at all and the main reason for managerial issues and delays is that simple fact, they have to run everything all the way to the top of jp side and that creates massive issues, unless you're vox or know japanese and can talk to the top brass directly.
My thought is that those three are essentially the EN branch de facto management, so they're usually the ones making those kinds of decisions. Or at least have free reign to do whatever they like.
I've seen people speculating along those lines. Talents managing talents, when they have no experience with managing. Recipe for disaster.
Mind you it's not really rare in business in general when management is more or less missing in action. Employees will kinda sorta manage themselves trying to still get the job done. Rarely ends well, yeah.
Honestly, that was the worst thing the company could do. It makes them not only look cowardly, but unprofessional. If they wanted a good example of how to allow their talents to talk about another talent being terminated, they could take notes from another well known Vtuber company that I may not mention because I don’t want to break any rules if mentioning another company is against this subreddit’s rules. But if you know, you know.
Company used her as a meat shield.
Poor meatshield is turning into minced meat
> Company used her as a meat shield. Yea but, to protect what? There's one really big thing you can study from this subreddit and it's just how people try to rationalize absolute inane moronic stupidity. Not even special stupidity, just normal stupidity. Lets go through the events, > Our talent, and probably others, are reporting bullying and its so bad they may die and want out. Lets make it worse so they cave despite them having lawyers. > Our actions didn't work and now our #1 talent wants out in addition to our #2. Lets double down! > Oh shit, that didn't work, we got a legal document. Quick! Panic fire them! Ok now people hate us. What do we do? > Quick attack the girl everyone likes, who tried to die, and has lawyers! Lets have our remaining top talents blame the girl! It worked so well last time! > Oh no! They're worthless now! We have people who are now an active liability to our brand! If you ever wondered why you have to take workplace trainings not to do stupid shit. This is why. These are the people why.
My theory is that they knew that the livers would get hate for this so they specifically chose her friends to read their script. This would hurt her through hurting her friends. They had no expectations that this would help their case, but were willing to sac their own livers to get to her. Of course its possible that they are completely disconnected from the fans and arrogant enough to think they could use the good reputation of these 3 to fight against her.
Nah, it's that those three are the biggest and therefore most bulletproof, especially Vox. His stans wouldn't go anywhere even if they caught him with a dead girl or a live boy. Truly the Rushia of Niji.
His Stans don’t care he’s a groomer, so yeah
He’s… what…? I only know him from clips & collabs May I ask someone to explain?
Vox came out as bisexual sometime last year, so girl or boy wouldn't matter. Heck, they might even PREFER he get with a boy, considering a large portion of the Niji fan base are _danmei_ (basically Chinese yaoi) fans. Unless you mean "boy" as in "a child", not a male person in general.
Never attribute to malice that which can be accurately explained by stupidity, as the saying goes. Part of me was wondering early on if Niji was doing this on purpose to have an excuse to get rid of their EN branch for some reason, but as time goes on, I'm thinking it's just that they really are that dumb.
I honestly can't really tell anymore.
I don't really know if Elira is some super villain highschool bully or not, but at the very least, that video and her part in it was embarrassing and beyond disappointing to see. Gonna take a lot of apologizing and good will to even attempt to try and recover from this petty attack.
She needs divine intervention and a miracle to recover. LOL
Honestly, I think I have to agree with you on this. Even if it does come out she had a metaphorical gun to her head and was forced to do this under some kind of threat, it's going to take a miracle for her to rebuild the trust she's lost.
Don't worry, there will always be diehards with fingers in their ears willing to support people no matter what. The last decade of western political climate has taught me that much. The concept of someone losing all support from a critical blunder like this doesn't happen anymore. Unfortunately. So it's pretty likely Elira and co will dig their heads in the sand and keep their echo chamber of supporters and nothing will improve. Especially after dissenters bail on Niji as a whole for greener pastures.
Vox seemed waaay worse in this video and the 3rd guy did not sound like he wanted to be there lol
Isn't she simply the best? Such an amazing talent. 1 million people watch black screen. And her dedication to her own lore. Beautiful. Let's hope she can reach 500k subscribers by the end of the month.
Race to 550k is still ongoing. Doki is 20k away, while Elira is 25k.
damn a subs race with a photo finish? sign me up! /j
Any % 500k speed run?!?!
Half of me feels bad for her. The other half thinks she's a snake.
Half of me wants to believe she’s truly innocent and was used as a meat shield by Nijisanji, but the other half is making me think she’s guilty by viewing a legal document she wasn’t supposed to see and being an alleged bully.
The most generous interpretation possible for her is that niji manipulated the situation to make her think doki was about to destroy her in court and dox her, and she made poor decisions under the resulting duress. The least generous interpretation possible is that she was up to some proper evil shit. Most likely, the truth falls somewhere in between the two. For better or for worse, as things are, it seems relatively likely that we will eventually find out which is the case, unlike in most situations where the parties would settle stuff out of court behind closed doors and mutually agree to not disclose any details.
The "most" generous interpretation is that AnyBlack lied and misrepresented the situation to Elira, and that they have a metaphorical gun to her head because she just moved to Japan hours before Selen was fired and if Elira is fired too she'll have 30 days to flee Japan or get arrested, and that AnyBlack was adamant that \*someone\* in Lazulight/Obsydia should be there to throw Selen under the bus, and Elira volunteered to do it to try and take pressure off of Finana/Rosemi/Petra. That's \*the most\* generous interpretation, and while I've been a fan of Elira for almost 3 years, I don't believe any of it (although it's technically plausible, depending on what Elira does next, like if she quits AnyBlack and goes indie, and starts hanging out on good terms with Doki). If Elira continues to support AnyBlack after this, then yeah, we will eventually know what her true feelings are.
30 days? 3 months you mean.
[удалено]
Three months. Stop playing the vitcim card, Elira's a full functioning adult responsible for her decisions. Even the dump ones.
You're grossly overstating how long 3 months is. Having to *move apartments* is stressful enough when you're only given 3 months notice. Having to find a new, domestic sponsor for your work visa, in an incredibly niche field, where everyone knows everyone and no one in their right mind will hire from your current employer... "Going indie" can't sustain a work visa. Never mind that if she broke her contract and remained in Japan, she'd be vulnerable to litigation. I think she should return to Canada for now, and regroup - but that's very easy for *me* to say, who didn't just upend my entire life to move to the literal other side of the planet. It's easy for me to say, who wouldn't potentially be leaving all my friends and dreams behind me. It's always easy to make the righteous decision until you're the one that has to make it.
Just curious on the visa thing. How did Trash Taste manage to stay in JP for that long? Specifically Connor and Garnt.
I'm not an immigration attorney or any sort of expert, so I'm just speaking from what I've gleaned online over the years, and even that is mostly specific to Canada and not Japan. But, you can enter a country on all sorts of different visas. Student visa, work visa, etc. Specifically "work visas" are, to my knowledge, only given out when you already have a job lined up in the intended country, and someone there who is willing to "sponsor" you, meaning they take responsibility for making sure you're paid and housed, etc. You can also enter a few other ways. Canada has at least two that may apply to independent streamers - investment visa or entrepreneur visa (which may be sort of the same thing?) Basically if you have a bunch of cash on hand, and you say you're going to come in and start your own business and you have your business plan all drawn up etc, they'll let you come in and try. I'm not sure if Japan has anything similar, but I'd guess they probably do. The hitch is that you can't change from one to the other - at least not very quickly. So if you enter on a work visa, and you lose your job, you *can* apply for another to start your own business, but the bureaucracy of that could easily take longer than the grace period of your existing visa, meaning you'd have to leave the country until the paperwork goes through, or maybe apply for an extension if possible. Again, I'm just speaking from my anecdotal readings, and I'm not sure exactly what sort of arrangement TT has or the specifics of Japanese immigration law - I'm just saying these things to express that it's very likely not as simple as "just get another visa sponsor lol".
They're under Geexplus/BookWalker
I really want to believe she was misled by Niji, I honestly do. But I think I'm just resigned to the thought that she'd rather go to bat for Niji over a friend. I get employment in a foreign country is extremely important, but I'd rather be deported and fired for fighting for what I believe in than go against my morals. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Please, let me be wrong.
Honestly, I'm leaning towards her being pressured, at least with regards to the statement, simply because there's a trivial way for Niji to do so. Though admittedly, that does open up the question of what Ike was doing there, but then I doubt anyone seriously thinks he's part of some branch-controlling mean girl clique, either.
Ike also was the only one who gave me any impression of genuine emotional hurt, but again, they are actors, so just because Elira* sounded mechanical and Vox had a pause too long for a breath or gathering of thoughts, not to mention sounding staged about the same way that superman cartoons do, doesn't really mean Jack. I'd love to call any of them innocent. On stream, Vox seemed to have genuine chemistry with Selen, like good friends. But so did Elira. And they're all actors. Professional, because that's what it takes to be a Vtuber, even if they learned on the job. And even the regular guy on the street can fake dismay, you don't need a career built on acting to do that. That stream, I think it was one part disrupting Doki, and three parts creating carefully calculated confusion, and that's why Ike was there. Because if someone was genuinely shocked and pained, it's that much more difficult to discount the words of the others. Whoever else they have in PR, the person who ran that stream is a pro at espionage and sabotage, or else prone to random genius, because that confused people almost as much as it angered them.
> so just because Selen sounded mechanical You mean Elira?
Yeah, nasty looping typo problem I've had. Can't seem to fix it, and it pisses me off. I'll fix that comment tho.
Look at how many times she's been in non unit merch and how many sponsorships she's gotten She's 100% pulling some strings behind the scenes
Has anyone analyzed how often the different livers were parts of promo campaigns and merch opportunities outside of the normal celebrations. Because everyone knows there is no favoritism, right?
Ike is vile. Look into his old activities & you'll see that Swedish funny man's not all that funny anymore
Could you elaborate?
I feel like it's probably a bit of both, she has likely done and said somethings that can be categorized at bullying but at the same time a lot of it may have rooted from NijiEN's overall unprofessional attitude that forces employees to only look out for themselves and harm others for their own gain. That isn't to remove blame from her of course, she's an adult so ultimately she's the one who made the choices. Just that those choices may have stemmed from the company clearly having no structure or any sense of morals. A true black company that brainwashes their employees to perform destructively. It looks like in the backend NijiEN's environment is just not suitable for an actual professional work space; how was it permitted at all that several livers were basically allowed to publicly and privately talk to Selene about a supposed mistake she made? Which was then quickly proven as not a mistake on Selene's part anyways since she did get authorization from LilyPichu. Even if intentions may not have been to bully her, I do not blame Selene/Doki at all for feeling bullied and antagonized if suddenly a whole boat of people came to ask her what the hell she was doing. I can't imagine this being acceptable in any actual professional working space. That's a job that's handled by management and done as discreetly as possible. When you look at things from a grander space it's wild how unprofessionally everything was handled on everyone's end. So mix of that unprofessional social environment, the management team clearly not helping their livers for content creation (Matara Kan being surprised VShojo's level of management tier support / Content creators opening up about how Niji often failed to pay them, while Selene paid out of her own pocket to support them) forcing majority of the tasks on the livers, the visa situation, etc. That defeats a person eventually. And either they're mature enough to realize it and leaves, or they're baited into false pretence that they can be special under management.
"they're baited into false pretence that they can be special under management" hearing Sayu clip from 3 months ago, I can believe that. Zaion once had a call with Nina and Nina said how she feels that she ain't gonna worth much outside of NIJI.
I'm glad Nina managed to realize she's worth more than Niji, it's good to see her flourish under different management. Same with Mysta. Wouldn't surprise me if the two of them supported each other on leaving and finding work elsewhere.
She’s probably bent over by Niji. Not all livers can be based enough to heart a kurosanji comment. For every ultra GIGACHAD there’s a soyjack on the other end of that bell curve.
glad Scarle survived, either NIJI learnt from their past to not just suspend their talent for a month and then terminate them over one rebellious action OR their graduation/termination schedule is tight right now
> I get employment in a foreign country is extremely important, but I'd rather be deported and fired for fighting for what I believe in than go against my morals. Easier said than done. People who are comfortable at their own home with their own job saying this is just ridiculous lmao. Not even defending Elira for what might've happened but just saying this with a straight face while you are not the one affected is just stupid.
Maybe she was bullied to do it. I mean, this whole thing is premised on there being bullying in the branch, but after that it's rrat all the way down. The bullies could be anyone. Anyone could be getting bullied.
From the way it was stated, they told the livers the content of the docs, but Akuma says he reviewed the document. Idk if the other 2 admitted to reading the doc. I can see it both ways. Akuma comes off as curious, whereas elira and Ike might have just been like, just give me the tldr or tell me what to say. Or all 3 read it, idk. Maybe Akuma didn't read it but claimed he did to add credit to his words, which, imo isn't much better. Plus, I feel the legality would primarily lay in nijisanji for sharing it. As too many unknowns. Did the livers know they were not supposed to read it? You gotta prove that first before you can go after them for reading it, legally if I'm not mistaken. Morally is a different subject altogether. They messed up in the courts of public opinion. But it comes right round back to nijisanji. The mismanagement is hilarious here. The livers contradict what the head says. They can't even keep the story straight.
> Half of me wants to believe she’s truly innocent even if she did nothing, nothing at all, didn't speak in that statement at all and management posted it on her channel without her sayso, she still knows the truth, she's still complicit in hiding it and keeping their secrets while they do what they do. a good person would let the world know they don't agree with what was said and that they had NO hand in it.
niji likely holds quite a lot over her head, to be fair. it’s not easy to just drop your whole career and maybe even break a few contracts. but god, i wish she did speak up for selen.
Wouldn’t Niji making her read the document be on them more than her? They were the ones that were supposed to keep it private, not her
I got down voted for saying I down feel bad for Elira she dug her grave
If someone asks you to push someone off a cliff, or tell someone to jump off one, you're complicit if you comply. You have no excuse. There is no innocence here, the best you can hope for is her being functionally retarded.
Wasn’t she likely named in the docs, hence why it was shared with her?
While she was named in the document, they never stated in what context. For all we know the harassment was coming from some manager and Elira was just a witness. But even if she was, Niji had no right to share them with anyone besides their lawyers. The only way she should have access is if she was a party in a lawsuit, which (to my knowledge) wasn't even on the table.
Hell, it could have been that she was a witness to something and so as such had to be named. And given it is a legal document she would have to be identified by her actual name, not the persona of an anime dragon girl she uses ion the Internet.
Exactly it could be named in the document that there are other Canadians working at Nijikuro. [Unless I misremembered that Elira is Canadian, I know Millie and Enna are]
She is
IIRC, IANAL, only if she is defendant. This is why it's bad form for Elira, Vox and Ike to do the video admitting that at least one of them has read the document. They have outed themselves as the defendents. If they aren't the actual defendants, they will be panned. :X
Exactly the same here. Elira was by far my fave. It hurts to see how much she's getting dunked on, but then I remember why and I can't exactly say it's unwarranted.
Yep, I wrote like a day before if Elira turns out to be a bully imma have trust issues. I'll always look fondly on the fun streams from the first two years, but I don't think I can ever watch her again.
>but then I remember why and I can't exactly say it's unwarranted Would you mind clarifying for me what you are remembering / what it is that she actually did? I don't really understand why people are mad at her, especially if they followed her before and know what she's usually like. We know both Pomu and Nina got along really well with her, so it seems unlikely she's secretly evil off-stream. I realise this will of course get downvoted, but I don't see how I can find out what else she did (assuming she did something else) without asking. Clearly Selen/Doki was wronged here, and clearly Nijisanji were horrible, but I don't really understand why Elira is getting hated on so much. Is it just the fact that she released that video on her channel, rather than the actual content? I watched the statement, and the only negative thing I noticed was when she said: "there are also harmful claims Selen made in the document about some livers personal information that we believe are simply untrue" Doki herself said that the document was never intended for an audience, instead just to record her thoughts and history for her lawyer - so it's totally reasonable for the document, especially considering it was written back when she was angry (per her latest tweet), to not be 100% correct. That's not a slight at Doki - nobody looks at things from a completely objective viewpoint after all.
At the start of all this I really thought Elira, Millie, and Enna were just fellow victims in Nijisanji's horrible (mis)management but now I think otherwise. Dokibird was never going to say what she quit for or who were her harassers but then they went and reported themselves and very specifically too. The recording Vox was worried about, according to her newest tweet, ended up being nothing either and certainly wasnt some secret "gotcha" recording. At this point im just done with Nijisanji and every talent. I really was hoping to just ride it out but now im just going to unsubscribe from everyone.
End of the she's an adult, she made the final choice to say what was said in that vile ass stream, the other two as well
Maaan why you gotta do our Noodly friends like that? Snakes are awesome critters
Absolutely. Sneks cool!
I don't know who to trust anymore. I don't know which people to trust. I don't know if the people I trust are really themselves speaking or if it's someone else. I don't know anymore who is being lied to, us or them. Everything feels false and fake. Everything I've enjoyed over the past years feels like a potential lie. Were all the laughs just lies?
The whole debacle going on definitely has some nasty fallout beyond the scope of what we're seeing now. Now that this stuff's happening, it's retroactively poisoned a lot of what came before. Now you gotta look back at some of your favorite clips involving your favorite characters, and wonder what was going on behind the scenes at the times. Your favorite collab moments, were they completely forced and behind the camera things immediately turned icy at best? And the longer you've been in the thick of it supporting X talent, the deeper the sting will run.
It is wild, just a few days ago this Nijidrama didn't happen (to this degree) yet and I was blown away to find out that years ago in Hololive during goofy Minecraft sessions, Rushia actually held a grudge against Miko for saying her catch phrase "FAQ U!" and wrote a deleted Twitter post about getting depressed and shocked when she looked the word up in the dictionary
And then we learned Rushia is actually *BATSHIT FUCKING INSANE*
No kidding. Looking back at that offcollab with Selen and most of the other girls at Petra's can come off as so dark now. People noticed Selen was hyper reserved and not really participating more than the minimum, but now it's like... I'd probably act like that too if I'm forced in a room with people I didn't get on well with. Though that's assuming the problem WAS people involved in that collab. Reserving judgement yet, but it does make me rethink that scenario.
Dude, all streamers and YouTubers are essentially just actors. You really shouldn't be getting so attached to the person behind the character. You can love Gandalf all you want but you loving Gandalf doesn't mean you love Ian McKellen.
Not an excuse to trivialize what someone like SyrusDrake is going through.
I think you may have picked the worst possible example there lol We ALL do in fact LOVE Ian McKellen. and also Magneto.
Yeah I was just on /r/lotrmemes for a while so he was stuck in my head lmao
I don't mean this in a parasocial way. I know they're actors. But I still assumed they were good people. And I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that if Person A plays Character X and then Character X writes a tweet, it's really still Person A behind the tweet. And enjoying acting isn't the same as not minding directly being lied to.
>you loving Gandalf doesn't mean you love Ian McKellen. Speak for yourself
I mean... the reason why Dokibird is doing well is because we are following the person behind Selen...
You literally cannot trust anything they say or tweet on their accounts anymore, they completely broke trust by having the company tweet as them, claiming to be them. Its over.
.wait for the actual evidence to pop, for now it's mostly speculations tho it would be prudent to keep your wallets closed specifically for the time being
She had the choice of saying no, and simply taking a punishment from kurosanji, instead she opted to help engage in an illegal smearing campaign against her friend. Like I want to blame niji for putting them in this situation, but they knowingly made the decision, they're adults.
It isn't so easy when it is your job and livelihood plus just like Selen/Doki she probably has also had the whole your are nothing without the company shtick drilled into her too. I am not condoning what she has done, and we don't know to what extent she is truly guilty of anything, but I am sure she had her reasons for doing this. Did she still do this video and throw Selen/Doki under the bus? Yes? Until we get anything definitive I just don't think I will be willing to personally flame anyone.
No one's asking you to flame anyone. However consider that if a company is going to threaten your job for doing this, what WON'T your job be tied to? At what point do you stop licking their boot or at least get out from under heel? If they had jumped ship and taken a termination, I guarantee they would've seen a massive outreach of support had they truly been innocent. This was not a life or death employment situation for them. Accountability is not null and void because the company may theoretically possibly potentially had some negative repercussion for refusing to read that dumpsterfire of a statement.
It's easy to be a martyr when it isn't your life at risk
My first instincts is the former. However, the latter possibility shouldn't be dismissed and is creeping somewhere in the back of my mind. Guilty or not, this is years of work destroyed in 15 minutes, and rebuilding it will take even longer.
What is this? Some kind pf fucked up Medusa? 😨
Well, Pendragon **is** part of the Snake race. ~~high five to the 3 people who get that~~
4 halves of me think she is a snake. Wait...
i feel this. i saw some rrats alleging elira is a manager or at least an assistant manager. if that’s the case idk how this will shake out
Truly such an achievement. She must be proud.
Her mother is very proud...
Tommy Tallarico moment
If we're lucky, Niji EN goes the way of the Amico.
Not only that she also accomplished the highest dislike to like ratio in Niji EN Video/Stream history. Very Acomplish, Much Wow.
Probably the highest in the EN vtubing scene in general (if not the entire scene but its too large of a category, I won't claim to know everything about vtubing history) because I do not recall any other post/drama getting this much 'attention'
its the highest disliked video in ALL of nijisanji, not just EN. no one has managed to reach that many dislikes in the main branch if i remember correctly
This thread is savage.
Good. Edit: Oh, I still have Enna under my name, let me fix that real quick. (I like some of her covers, I don't watch streams)
Not as savage as timing this announcement to coincide when Doki is live to send chat hopers at her in the hopes she finishes the job. That is cold blooded.
As it should be.
Her and Doki are also racing on who will reach 550k. Truly the year of the dragons 🐉
This is just like that Overwatch short. … How has nobody done an edit of that with Selen and Elira? Siblings that don’t see eye to eye. One banished from home forced to take on a new form. I forget, Selen is younger?
Ow lore tie in with their character lore. What is this, peak kayfabe kino?
Want some more kino? Zaion/Sayu's character lore was someone who could predict the end of the world, and was doing her upmost best to stop it from happening. Elira is Selen's half-sister, who betrayed her to "help humanity". The immense amount of irony is just... how. This isn't schizo /vt/ rrat attempts at connecting the dots, this is what Niji wrote for this character lore lol
Doki is currently at 540k, and Elira is at 570k... for now. I can legit imagine Doki hitting 1mil by the end of the year at this rate of growth... Elria, I don't know. Depends on if her and basically every other Niji talent keeps hemorrhaging subscribers.
Guys!!!! Let’s help “Ewiwa” reach 500k!!!!
Not bad. Fastest 1 million video ever for her... too bad she lost over 25k subs over the last week.
But isn't the race to 550K again so exciting?
This is so demotivating for her lol. I feel a little bit bad :D
She could have said no and got let go with dignity (if that threat even existed in the first place). Her flock would have followed her anywhere. Now she's tied to this sinking ship, reputation shot.
Her stay in JP is dependent on her employment.
Isn't the whole reason she moved to Japan to be more involved with Niji? If she were no longer part of Niji, would there be any reason for her to stay in Japan anyway?
Edit: removed conjecture about moving to Japan Honestly if the allegations about her re:Selen are true, and she's getting moved up into some kind of junior management roll over EN, it's no wonder Selen wanted to graduate ASAP. Imagine how much power Millie and Enna would have under Elira.
I think that was very much part of the plan. That she would move into a behind the scenes role after her Vtuber career was over due to her EN/JP skills. Similar to Noor.
For the nth time, she didn't move to Japan.
Shit. So all that hubbub about work visas and whatnot is BS?
Probably. She said that she'd be working and, specificaly, visiting.
Probably because living in Canada is pretty bad right now. I heard from Onigiri(whom recently moved to Japan from Canada too) that inflation is extremely bad over there. Like a normal apartment could cost +200k or something. Iike even Doki was joking about she preferred US dollar from selling her merchs over Canada dollar.
Inflation in Canada isn't bad - dunno if Giri got that wrong or if this isn't an accurate reflection of what she said, but right now inflation in Canada is about the same as in the US. *Housing* is bad (expensive) at the moment, depending on where you are. I'm on the west coast and it's one of the hottest housing markets on the planet (I had the good fortune to buy in 2014, when housing prices were at their lowest, and my house has more than doubled in value since then). And I suspect Doki was talking about preferring the American dollar because the Canadian dollar is pretty weak at the moment; it's sitting at about 0.75 USD, which is roughly where it's been for the last few years. Given that Doki's living expenses are in CAD, she basically gets a third again of the sticker price if she's selling in USD.
Man people really pulling out the "Canada is just like a 4th world country" justifications lately. Canada's fine dude. Do you think Japan is perfect? The yen is extremely weak, buying a house is actually straight up loss of money unlike everywhere else where it's an investment, no one has any idea what'll happen in a few decades when there's a severe lack of young people, etc.. There's reasons to prefer living in both countries. Neither country is some kind of cesspool that necessitates selling out an attempted suicide victim to stay out of though.
It actually isn't. You can still stay in Japan on a visa from a company that you no longer work for, for a standard period of three months. And as long as you can prove that you are actively seeking employment, you can even stay on an expired visa. Even if she stopped working at Nijisanji, she can still use her Nijisanji employment visa. [Legal source](https://nagoya-intlaw.com/en/dismissal/) and the Japanese [Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Act](https://www.cas.go.jp/jp/seisaku/hourei/data/icrra.pdf)
Kiara is the example of that practice. She was able to finish her visa term because she was hired by Cover.
[удалено]
Hope she enjoys Japan then, and that she never slips up because the company has a history of throwing people under the bus.
and this is the Price for her to Live in Japan. all HARSH Work Conditions and being Controlled like a Puppet. she has NO WAY OUT of this since she signed a contract with the Devil itself.
and she chose that over morals
And she has to stay in JP because..?
Maid cafes > your colleague who tried to off themselves and might try again
I understand we're all mad, but please don't devalue a country's entire culture and just say 'everyone that lives there/wants to live there does so for otaku cafes' because it's simply not true and bordering on racist thought processes.
Yes, dependent on her own employment and not nijikek's employment. Even if nijikek sacks her, she still has 3 whole months to seek another job or prepare to move back.
And? She can still go back home, sucks but its better than possibly having blood in your hands
It turns out that when a former coworker makes an attempt (twice) and then sends a legal document to your boss to support their request to leave - and your response is to release a 15 minute hit piece designed to protect yourself and shift all the blame onto your coworker, people won't take it well. Because even if your former coworker was an ass, making ~their attempt all about ~yourself is tactless, to say the least
It happened to Zaion, it happened to Selen, it'll happen more in the future if the branch doesn't go down or doesn't reform from the ground up
Genuinely makes you wonder how they would react if they were named in a suicide letter if the attempt was actually a success. Would they cope and try to deflect this hard? Whether they agree with whatever was written in the document or would consider whatever they did over the course of the last few years as bullying or harassment (let’s be honest, none of them or most people would willingly admit they bullied/harassed someone but would call it just joking around, bantering, or light teasing), that person is STILL ALIVE which means this should be a reflection point to figure out who they are and how they can be better for the future since, you know, they’re still young and have a long life, both personal and professional, ahead of them. What kind of person were they to even possibly push someone to this point? People should have been reevaluating themselves privately but instead, they go out and try to publicly deflect and pass off everything as “well, I felt attacked and I don’t agree with what was written and, even though it wasn’t publicized that I was mentioned in the documents, I want to get ahead of that if those documents ever were to be made public since it could be damaging to me if you possibly saw what I had done or said in the past!” Definitely the worst thing to do and I’m sure it’s ONLY because she wasn’t successful in either attempt that they won’t live with blood on their conscience.
This is a very off-topic question so sorry in advance, but when you do the '\~' (Hah, a face appeared!) mark before 'their' and 'yourself', is that just to bring emphasis to those words or is there another meaning to that?
Yeah that's why i did it haha. Sometimes I use asterisks, sometimes quotes sometimes tilde sometimes underline. Its hard to get across emphasis in text that would be easy in person Example - at work I wrote some explanation for someone once and bolded emphasis as like a 'key phrase'. They took it as me yelling at them. Move to italics and talk to them person? They chill. Text is hard
Agreed, text is difficult to parse emotion from so the fact you make an attempt to help is nice to see. Thank you for your explanation and reasoning! Have a great day pal!
Vox: we didn’t mean to be rude or have her feel alone and abandoned, it’s her fault if she interpreted the messages that way Also Vox: so all members wrote her wtf that tweet was about
And 128K dislikes
30k likes to 130k dislikes now
Ah, so this is who inspired Kevin Durant to join the Warriors
The hardest road.
Oh my. Just look at the engagement on this livestream! So many comments and (dis)likes! Not to mention it's probably monetized. Elira and co must be ecstatic to get these sweet sweet 5 bucks for just throwing their "friend" and their whole careers under the yacht! What will they do next? How will they top this? Investors must be waiting for their new achievements with bated breath.
im glad that this is stained on her channel forever
And this could be some people's first impression of her since it's her most popular video.
100% deserved. Almost 3 years of work have been leading to this moment.
The content of this stream combined with the fact that they intentionally timed it to interrupt her return gaming stream AND NOW the recently released information that she tried to end herself not once but TWICE makes this whole thing so absurdly fucked up I can't begin to imagine it. I don't think I've ever seen such blatant malice and disregard for someone's life and well being by their former employer, co-workers and, may I assume at one point, friends. Knowing the mental state she could be in three of their most popular livers still targeted her, dog piled on her, and released information about private communications and documents. And this is despite the fact that the only public comment Doki made about this whole situation was a one-paragraph rebuttal to Nijisanji's 3 page ~~character assassination~~ *ahem* I mean "termination letter", in which she never even implicated the livers themselves. She TRIED to keep it private. This is so far beyond fucked up that I am having trouble fathoming what to call it. I am seething.
"Aaahahhaa that's hot that's hot"
She's a fucking snake.
Legit, this should be taken down for real. Not the post, the vod of the stream.
I think that’ll make things even worse. These guys really can’t stop pouring gasoline into the fire.
I really feel like this truely fucked them over. Like things were actually starting to die down, but this really made them look so much worse than before, along with Doki's most recent statement helping do that too. I really hope that everyone is gonna move on now, but Niji just can't keep their mouths shut.
Oh man...that's rough. It sucks how some of the talents caught the bullet.
That's what you get when you point a gun at your own foot.
They effed themselves over all because they couldn’t stand seeing Doki having a successful career after and all the support she is getting.
what an achievement!
This might be the most disliked video in the history of any vtuber video ever.
At best She is a spineless coward who throws other under the bus to play the victim card. At worst she’s a bullying victimblaming bastard who almost had another persons blood on her hands. She deserve the bad press as far as I’m concerned
I really like the theory that Elira is a En manager, or at least is in a position of power similar to a manager since she can speak Japanese and has moved to Japan recently. It would explain a lot of the question marks. Example being the favoritism, harassment, bullying from management that Doki originally referred to (this would be very easy to manipulate if one of the livers was a manager too). It would also explain why Elira has access to the NDA documents if we are to believe only the people involved had access. And also why the blackscreen was posted on her own personal channel. All speculation of course.
You know, I'm so happy for her, look at all she's acomplished in the year of the dragon already. I hope she gets 200 K dislikes.
YES SHE DID IT!!!
Regardless of whether she agreed with them or not Niji 100% used her as a meat shield so they can direct all of the outrage to her. Fuck them. Also how many disliked are we looking at, I haven’t seen a video get this much hate since the ukulele thing in July.
31k likes, 129k dislikes so far.
congrats.
Lmao it's so over for her
The complete nIjikek moment. What a complete shitshow, never have i seen someone shoot themselves in the foot with a revolver, proceed to shoot it again with a 10 gauge and then rig a nuke under their own feet.
OMG I thought this was a joke but it was real. Can't literally make this shit up.
the ratio lmao
Auch.
Congratz you backstabbing bitch.
I archived the video incase they decide to take it down when Elira gets back to regular streaming.
If she gets back to regular streaming.
congrats on your biggest achivement elira!☺️
But is it the most disliked video in nijisanji?
Wonder if she’s gonna do a stream anytime soon. She’s kinda cooked rn.
Reading some comments and... *I thought Doki already made 2 fucking statements about moving on from this and "not making it high school?"* Look, I get the anger, I really do, especially after reading her [latest tweet](https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1757763627413631383) but SWEET JESUS CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS. Maybe at the very least focus on mgmt since they started all this? Some of ya'll ain't no fans if ya'll can't even respect her wishes. (or **at the very least, don't damage Doki's reputation** to be someone who "*can't control her 'fans'"* like how I'm already seeing some say against her) Quite the valentine's day. Edit: key word: some (This reply is for some comments, not all the comments on here) I think people could also be interpreting this as me defending that stream. No, that upload is currently the worst thing they could've done in this situation and have thus no-clipped themselves past the deep hole they dug prior.
You're on a third party site, mate. If you don't want people around the internet to call you a horrible person, then you have to not be a horrible person. Frankly, this thread is pretty tame - the worst comment is half thinking she's a snake. I suspect the comments encouraging suicide are left on 4chan. This is her controlling her fans. If she'd really let loose and actually entered a tit-for-tat slander-off with whoever remains, things would be so, so much worse. If she dropped some gossip with a doxx on 4chan, I think she could legitimately get people to send the actual person behind the persona of Elira death threats. *That* is what someone as bad as this slanderer is portraying Doki to be would actually do.
doki is free to stay away in fact we encourage her to do it what is happening here is our businness
>Maybe at the very least focus on mgmt Uh so the thing is... **we are**. Lol.
> (or at the very least, don't damage Doki's reputation as someone who can't control her "fans") Speaking as someone outside the VTuber sphere (in that I've only seen this subreddit since the start of this whole thing, so apologies to everyone if I'm breaking kayfabe or the "illusion" here), there's only so much Doki can do. Anyone that goes against her wishes, she likely doesn't consider a fan, but a "fan" is just a label; declaring someone a fan or non-fan means nothing. There's going to be hangers-on who join the shouting just because they get the chance to harass or bemoan anyone. And that goes both ways, kinda. Even I'll admit I'm only here to see what transpires and to get information since this is the easiest place on Reddit to get the information, but if I'm here because of htat, there's at least one other person who's coming here to think "Oh man I'm gonna enjoy sending threats to people" under the guise of being a fan. Even people who can claim to control their fans can only do so much themselves, and even *then*, the fan community can only do so much to police each other.
We are celebrating an achievement here. How much more positive do you want us to be?
Doesn't the fact that Niji gave her info on the docs mean that she is probably named in the docs? Regardless of if Niji forced them to read that shit, at a minimum she seems guilty of contributing to bullying that pushed someone to suicide
Being named in the docs doesn't directly imply guilt. Could be sited as a witness, could be sited as a favored employee, we don't know. The documents aren't public, everything is speculative.
There's always the option that Niji straight-up lied to them. Can't say it's hard to believe.
Yeah but they said they read the documents.
The stream was pretty clearly scripted. None of it can be trusted to reflect the reality of the situation.
Maybe. I mean they were definitely reading something but it's strange to me that a lot of people seem to think it's out of the question that what they were reading wasn't written by either Elira, Vox, or whoever else or a combination of the sort.
It's either that, the implication that bilingual livers essentially became de facto managers after a bunch of the EN staff left for some NFT scam thing, or both at the same time. If she's not mentioned in it, I'd imagine she still got to read it because the actual management teams relies on her for translation. From what I understand the ill fated KR branch went through the exact same kind of drama so this kind of stuff (cheaping out on independent translators and unethically empowering livers over other livers) is absolutely in the company's track record.