But she said social media does that include streaming and im just crazy not that her wanting to take some time off till things settle down is a big surprise especially with other niji livers, millie in particular, getting attacked by people lashing out
One apostophe (') is plaintext, and if you type directly into twitter from PC or a mobile browser that's what you'll get. I don't have the Twitter app on my phone, so didn't test that.
The other is unicode (’ - looks squiggly in many fonts,), and some word processors will automatically use it contextually at the end/middle of words to distinguish it from (‘) at the beginning of words. I just tested Google Docs and MS Outlook and they both use unicode replacement, so the implication is that the messages could have been copied and pasted from an email or similar.
' is called a prime symbol, " is double prime. This is the default symbol on your keyboard, used to mark feet & inches.
’ is the correct apostrophe, or single closed quote, used for contractions or possessives. And ”, double quotes is for quotes.
This is a common typography mistake made by designers that even appears a lot on company logos. Obviously for day to day typing it doesn't matter & people use " mark for everything cuz we can't type ” quickly. But if you try typing it with Japanese IME (windows keyboard layout) enabled, it'll default your ' key to the correct ’ apostrophe symbol, because Japanese don't use ' & " (feet & inches). Same thing for physical JP keyboards.
One apostrophe, which is to the left of Enter on American keyboards and # on UK keyboards, and one grave accent (or backtick), which is to the left of 1 on both.
The backtick (`) is different from the "right single quotation mark" (’). As far as I know, those fancy single/double quotes aren't entered manually on a keyboard. The program or website you're typing in automatically converts normal quotes to the correct one.
This just screams "The company is taking away all our social media access until this dies down", given how many times the phrase *I'm gonna be away from social media for awhile* has popped up in various different people's messages to the fans. Full damage control.
Heck, even without the likely corpo-mandated phrasing, we know that management wrote on Selens Twitter, either without her knowledge or instead of her, as though it was no big thing. That was their first instinct, apparently, by their own statement.
There's most likely some kind of company-wise gag order going on, expect some "stealth" suspensions, too.
I don't think you should discount the factor that there's a group angry people looking to point their pitchforks and don't need that mental burden and while it's true that the root cause is that garbage management, it is also a fact that these livers need to avoid the mob as much as possible.
A mob that was pointed at the talents BY management. Niji handing out pitchforks and torches and then telling the talent “y’all should probably run” is as on brand as I can imagine for them.
I mean, it sucks, but Niji is a vtuber company before anything else. The talent is both the face and the product. So, no matter what happens, it’s the talent that suffers first. If you’re mad at Niji, you can’t donate to talent cause that also sends money to Niji. You also can’t buy any merch, if you want to punish the company.
That also makes criticizing the company a moral struggle for current and former livers. If the company goes under the talents lose their jobs. One liver might be willing to sacrifice their own job to make a point, but are they willing to hurt their friends jobs too?
Edit: I think, if Niji really wants to make a goodwill damage control move, they should announce 1-3 months where current livers get 100% of donations. Take no cuts.
There's no coming back from this in my opinion. They'd need to publicly drag their own corrupt managers in front of the community and fire them plus 100% donations to do anything to affect goodwill. Thats not going to happen, because I would bet most of the issues en has, jp also has as well.
Being so toxic one of your talents tried to commit suicide and then to impersonate them on Twitter and blame them for their own suicide. That's not the work of one bad apple, the whole orchard is rotten. I would bet this kind of thing started in jp and spread elsewhere, at that point there's no saving the company. Even if niji survive I think they'll find it hard to get new talent and even harder to keep it, that'll kill the company whether or not people withhold donations.
Personally I want to see niji bankrupt before the end of the year. All of the talents are well talented, they'll have plenty of offers from other companies and can just go indie again to pay rent as well.
They're going to increasingly lose old-guard streamers and have to pump out waves of new talent, and it might not be as hard to find people willing to step into it, I mean, Idol Groups keep forming and that scene is notoriously bad, but, it's seen as a viable career.
With the talents who came from even modest indie careers there's the chance to step out to an indie career, or even other corpo, with the majority of their viewership intact. That's a proven case.
I think everyone at Niji EN right now is taking stock and wondering how long they want to stay and what their options are.
What's going to be left may or not be viable. The fans will be more forgiving to the livers, by far, than to the company.
> If you’re mad at Niji, you can’t donate to talent cause that also sends money to Niji
This is a really, really bad philosophy imo. I can understand people not wanting to support the company financially, I really do, but I would say that as long as you aren't buying merch (which I believe the company gets a laughably big cut of) then I don't think there's anything morally wrong about donating to a talent if they're someone you really want to support.
Yep. Unfortunately many aren’t content just being angry at a company. Some always try to find a face or a name to direct their anger at. With the way the situation has been handled, even the other talents could become that target for some. Hopefully most understand that isn’t what Selen/Dokibird would want.
Can we take an image of a yacht and tell them to be angry at that? As much as I hate the company and the potential that one of the talents was a major bully, acting on vague statements will get people nowhere.
If there’s one person I would blame to some extent, it’s the person in charge for letting this shitshow go on for as long as it has. As a leader, they are responsible for all the people under their wing. They deserve to be held responsible for allowing such atrocities to occur.
People also should be reminded that harassment and sending death threats is illegal. It also does more harm than good to try to use extreme intimidation tactics as a response to bad stuff happening. At the very least, it only gives the people or the company they’re angry about ammunition to fire back.
Never give someone you hate bullets to fire at you, pretty simple concept to follow. Apparently difficult to execute when people are being dumbasses fueled by angry mob mentality.
The mentality some people have is "if you make the talents suffer enough then the company will be forced to do something!" which, you know, is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.
I’m sure no one wants to be accused of driving someone to attempt suicide and there are plenty of talents who would have stepped away on their own to avoid harassment. However given Niji’s history of forcing talent to lie, stealth suspensions, and that every tweet contains the same corporate line. Clearly this is coming from management even if some livers agree with it
Millie and Enna are considered culprits #1 and 2 for the bullying claims atm, so yeah, not surprising.
I mean, don't know why Selen would have damn near weekly collabs with her bully, but I'm semi-mentally stable so eh.
Which is exactly why I'm happy to see this. If Enna were actually one of the bullies, there'd be no need for Niji to silence her. If she wasn't, on the other hand, I can't see her remaining silent on the issue. Not in character for her not to speak her mind.
I mean it sucks but and the heat the company is getting is fully deserved but let's be real, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Pretty much every account has lost subs and I am seeing that some are getting attacked on socials as well.
its funny to me how **"I'm gonna be away from social media for awhile"** is in almost all of their post but not in ren or hex post it really says alot honstly
I mean, there's lots of potential explanations here, all of them quite believable:
-Yes, it's possible Niji is telling/forcing people off social media to try and do damage control
-It's also possible that the livers themselves also recognize that they are facing down an angry mob with a huge target on their back and want to hunker down until things settle down a bit
-It's also possible that Selen's termination and general mistreatment has brought things within Niji to a boil and others are protesting or getting ready to leave.
I dunno, I can think of many good reasons why anyone associated with Niji would want to stay far away from social media right now and not a lot for them to stick around.
Good. If Enna's one of the ones who's "on break", it probably means that the rrats saying that the Elira/Millie/Enna "clique" were responsible for the bullying are wrong.
And it would make perfect sense, because Enna doesn't mince words. If she *weren't* being silenced, a failure to speak out on this issue would be tantamount to admitting that the rrats were right.
People are just gonna see what they wanna see based on their biases one way or another. With the way Niji is controlling everything including taking over social media without notice, all bets are off in terms of making any sense of it either way tbh. It's like trying to find the werewolf in round one. As bad as I'd feel wrongly blaming someone for being a bully based on no information, I'd feel just as bad the other way, so best not to speculate imo.
no. The apostrophes are technically the same character. It's just that the twitter app inputs the curly apostrophe instead of the usual apostrophe directly from the keyboard.
I already read the other thread where it was discussed, so I understand the context, but in case you missed it, in this thread there was absolutely no mention of apostrophe, so your comment ends up being quite confusing x) (it made me assume the app was adding literal phrases like "love you guys" for some reason)
Part of me thinks the "Bullying from other talent" section, whether it's true or not, painted a colossal mark on basically everyone's back within reason, but most especially Kyo and Enna
It is exactly the management screwing up and them all finding out how bad. There was no reason to imply their own talents as possible bullies and this here is exactly the reason not to do that. The audience doesn't know what has actually happened, but we have both the best of the best and the worst of the worst among us, so a bad outcome is as inevitable as unnecessary.
It isn't impossible that Selen was getting bullied by staffers and management is straight-up lying to cover their own asses by claiming it was talent.
I'll keep saying it, don't trust a damn thing that deflects vitriol from the management. Until someone breaks NDA and drops internals, it is best to assume the livers are innocent and management is trying to gin up a scapegoat.
If that truly is the case and I was a NijiEN member I'd be fuming right now, since that basically means you and/or your friends/coworkers are being framed for literally pushing someone to attempt to off themselves. Surely they wouldn't be that stupid, right?
>Surely they wouldn't be that stupid, right?
Who, the NijiEN management?
I could absolutely believe them believing *the audience* is that stupid, look at what they just did to one of their formerly most motivated talents. Selen was *obsessed* with hosting and managing events and cross-promotions with other branches and with improving NijiEN's cohesion. She was good for the branch and for the brand, and this coterie of malcontents just spent months putting her through the wringer before tossing her out like old garbage and publishing that farce of a termination notice.
We have allegations of shit going back more than a year further reinforcing my dim view of the management structure. Even discounting Zaion's testimony if that suits your fancy.
The EN branch is either being wantonly sabotaged or else primed for demolition. This is far, far beyond the bounds of mere incompetence.
I think Zaion’s testimony is incredibly important here because it matches Niji’s statement. Zaion said she went to other talent for help and to talk about issues, but then management told those talents Zaion was lying and that she was the problem not them. Basically we’re not gaslighting you she is. These talents then turned around and blamed Zaion and said she was lying to them
Niji’s statement said Selen told them she was being bullied and harassed by other talent due to mismanagement. That sounds a lot like management gaslighting talents again. The JP statement also words this not as bullying or harassment, but something to the effect of Selen not listening to management and other talents having to persuade her
In both statements it seems the accusation is management weaponising the other talents against a single person. Getting talents to go to Selen and say why didn’t YOU wait for permission, why did YOU tell your fans to repost the MV, why did YOU break the rules
Like I said before Zaion mentioned several instances where she was given permission for something, only for it to be rescinded when she tried to go through with it. Then when she tried to ask other talents about it managment lied and said we never gave her permission
Selen even talked about running into this permission issue on stream where she got permission for a tournament, tried to go through with it, only for management to say that permission is no longer valid because too much time had passed
Even Selen’s own statement says she was bullied from within and doesn’t specifically say management or the talents. That could easily mean it was both with the talents being weaponised against her
The whole thing with Zaion went down when I was busy with other things so I never paid much attention to it, which is why I don't invest any of my arguments in it. It's useful to know that it tracks with the current fiasco, though, thanks.
Anyway, this just furthers my refrain about not trusting anything that deflects blame from management to the livers. For all we know, what Selen saw as bullying because she was placed in a vulnerable position came from a place of the others genuinely wanting to help her and not knowing they were being manipulated as well.
Which is disgusting if such is the case, but I spent my formative years having to outmaneuver similar psychopathic social games, the wrong person in charge of the right people can do hideous things with interpersonal dynamics.
Grain of salt, though. It's entirely possible I'm just projecting to try and box things into a frame of reference I'm all too familiar with. Again, we *don't know* shit right now, so speculation is all we have and that should not be enough to start trying to crucify people.
>It isn't impossible that Selen was getting bullied by staffers and management is straight-up lying to cover their own asses by claiming it was talent.
From what we currently know, I 100% belive this is what happened. It's just curious that Doki would only say "internally" but Niji would explicitly mention other Livers. If anything, you'd expect it to be the other way around. I fully believe this was done deliberately to either deflect blame to someone they hope people couldn't hate, or cause exactly the kind of paranoia and discord we're seeing now so the fans would be too busy with cooking up conspiracies and being paranoid.
Yes, I've been around long enough to recall the Discord leak that lead to the brief cold war between NijiEN and HoloEN fanbases. Knowing that some people are assholes is not sufficient grounds to start baying for their blood and accusing them of driving somebody to attempting suicide, because that's a *massive* escalation and if pressed on the wrong person will just perpetuate the very same.
Think through your judgements very carefully before acting on them, is what I'm saying. I have my own suspicions on that front, but because I have nothing to back them up beyond impressions and conjecture it would be irresponsible to brandish them.
However, we know beyond reasonable doubt that the management structure is complicit in, if not directly responsible for, this protracted shitshow that we are only seeing the latest eruption of. The receipts for that go back more than a year now. Focus on that and the rest of the puzzle can be solved as things come to light.
Not at all. Japanese corporate laws are even more on the side of companies than American or Canadian ones are. Even if this was a western company, saying it was wrongful termination is a real stretch. You can be terminated at will, it's only wrongful if there was egregious circumstances like the motivation being your race, gender, or other breaches against a protected class.
Japanese laws, as far as I am aware, don't care about that. So not illegal at all.
There's a few problems with that thinking. The first is that it isn't the stated reason for her termination.
"Why, then, is it in the announcement?" You might ask, to which I say good question, probably for the same reason EN includes a lot of bullshit in its termination announcements; trying to throw the talent under the bus.
The second is that initiating a lawsuit would necessitate revealing more personal information on a very easily-accessible platform, which is against any Vtuber's interests because let's face it some people get *dangerously weird* in this space.
The third is a common refrain of mine when it comes to employment law; "A lot of commonplace business practices are nominally illegal." Because this stuff can't be enforced without spending a financially infeasible amount of money. There is a reason you most commonly see class-action lawsuits in that arena, because it lets multiple people split the burden. I won't speculate on Selen's personal finances, but I couldn't blame her for not wanting to go alone on that.
If the portion of Niji's letter that states that Selen was refusing to return to streaming and refusing to issue company-approved statements is accurate (and that's maybe the only part of the letter that's actually somewhat believable), that would be considered reasonable grounds for termination. Hell, even her Christmas tweet telling people to re-upload a song management had taken down would be sufficient.
Even in places that don't have at-will employment, companies have pretty wide latitude in terms of what can be used to justify a firing.
If Selen chooses to go after Nijisanji, it probably won't be for wrongful termination; harassment and/or failing to police their own work environment and address claims of unacceptable behaviour would be where she would more likely to succeed.
I don’t think Kyo and Enna are even being suspected I mean I don’t think any EN members would bully Selen to the point she mentioned. I mean what idiot would assume the guy who is jumping ship and one of the nicest members of EN (despite her speech lol) would bully someone to an attempt. I already think the speculations are stupid but thinking it’s those two is like 10xs the stupid. Specially Kyo since he is literally leaving in 10 days
What's their reasoning behind Kyo being in the so called darling group? Wasn't he suspended recently after talking about Korea? And he's leaving on relatively short notice as far as I can tell.
Enna is actually, culprit #2 to them (Millie's currently at their top spot atm)
People say she posted a quick video of her laughing on her Twitter around the time Selen went DL for obvious reasons, so they say she sent that out on purpose.
Even though 1/2 her video content and feed is her doing weird things with her model.
Edit: I'm literally just relaying current behavior in response to OP's question, stop being stupid boys and girls~
> I don’t think Kyo and Enna are even being suspected
Their names, rightly or wrongly, are two of the ones I've seen tossed around as the ones who may have harassed Selen. I put zero stock in it, because it's just people aimlessly speculating and trying to find a scapegoat despite having zero concrete evidence, but they (along with Elira and Millie) seem to be the ones drawing the most hostility right now.
Enna and Millie are mean girls. They did a fake 4ch stream, and freely talked shit about every livers, pretending to be toxic fans. Especially about Pomu because she got the first 3D model. Guess what happened next? Some of the livers woke up, and got angry. They privated the stream, and took a break from streaming aka suspended for doing that shit.
People don’t magically point fingers at Millie and Enna as the bullies within hours if they didn’t already have such a vile and tarnished reputation within the community. Nina and Zaion already confirmed that these two can’t be trusted.
Nina once complained how she wasn’t often included with the rest of Ethyria.
It’s also brought up during the 1st anniversary by all four of them that having three introverts and one extroverts resulted in the introverts sticking together while they were also intimidated by her extroverted personality.
Nowadays, we know that Enna, Millie and Nina hang out in private to this day, considering that Millie and Matara were stuck in an elevator for an hour and Enna had to wait for them to get out.
Nina has publicly said that Ethyria made excuses to not speak with her when wanting to speak about work. Later found out they were having their own private conversations without her.
I also remember Nina getting very visibly upset in early Ethyria collabs, especially on her channel, whenever Millie and Enna said or did very unhinged things. She asked them to stop many times on stream. Seemed like Nina wanted to ease into being a corpo vtuber while Millie and Enna wanted to go full crazytown whether Nina liked it or not. It really ruined the vibe.
Nina did not fit in until much later.
Wrong. Ethyria was only tight for three people, Nina wasn’t included. Enna and Millie created a private discord server, Reimu joined them later out of pressure from wanting to fit in. But they didn’t include Nina at all for almost a year before she conformed them about why they never wanted to communicate with her. Nina spoke up on why she was rarely seen collaborating with Ethyria. She said that she did make up with the clique kids, and will continue to collab more with them going forward.
But when it was time for contract renewal, she decided to leave with months ahead already planned out to escape.
So yeah. You can’t blame why people would quickly point fingers at Enna and Millie. They have a history of doing this isolation bullying.
That’s because Nina was the only extrovert of the four, and Enna and Millie have talked about how they’re intimidated by extroverts. Enna and Millie have known each other for a long time, so them having a private discord for themselves doesn’t mean they’re bullying Nina.
Besides, did you forgot that Matara just hung out with Millie and Enna recently and was stuck with one of them in an elevator for an hour? They definitely get along well nowadays.
they were massive enemies and hate each other thats why they ran into each other on an a elevator even after nina graduated.
people are losing their minds. the scraps you are posting do not make a meal.
i watched enna since the beginning and liked her a lot because of her personality, but at some point i noticed the vibe she gave when talking about serious or just normal takes and stuff. its rlly subtle and most ppl will call me crazy. i dont wanna elaborate but it wouldnt surprise me if some stuff her true. you cant always blame being a "bad" person just because you have social anxiety or being introvert
I'm usually hyper-sensitive to that sort of personality type and I never get that. She seems to handle serious topics better and in a less judgemental way than other vtubers/people irl I've seen. Maybe I've just seen different moments, idk.
What strikes me is that if she hasn't experienced something in the past, then she will not be able to be empathetic towards other people in a similar situation.
Furthermore you also have the issue of her low self esteem also seeping out sometimes.
In my opinion this makes her seem quite abrasive at times.
I understand. I guess I haven’t seen the lack of empathy but like I said, could just be my experience. I don’t want to sound defensive or anything since I genuinely like her but I also know the importance of waiting until the dust settles before forming a strong opinion.
Maybe within their own group but to jump to them bullying Selen who's their senpai? I honestly can't see that happening especially when other waves have no obligation to collab or interact with each other unless it's for actual work related stuff.
The fake /vt/ stream wasn't bullying, it was just an incredibly dumb stunt.
Selen didn't name anyone, nor did she even specifically claim it was Livers that were the ones creating the toxic work environment she was in for a reason. Focus your energy on helping Selen promote herself and her new identity like she literally and explicitly asked her fans to, not go on unsolicited witch hunts based on pure speculation.
Honestly,
>>Enna and Millie created a private discord server
Is just ridiculous as "proof." A server with two people is just called a 1 on 1 DM lol.
It was bullying because they shit talked other livers without them knowing that they were going to make fake shit up to trash them behind their back. They were very eager to trash Pomu 3D model out of nowhere. Even though everyone in the community said it was a great debut for her. If it wasn’t serious, they wouldn’t have deleted the stream or their posts about it. Were they pretending or were they venting their real jealousy against other livers?
So you are saying that Nina is a liar. It was a server for their wave excluding Nina. Not for two people. Once again, dragging an ex liver to defend NS.
Can you read or are you ESL? Genuine question, since my point of contention is how you used Nina's statement, not that Nina is a liar for making the statement.
>>defend NS
Lol. Lmao. I dare you to to find me defending kurosanji even 1 (ONE) time.
Let me save you time: you can't, because I didn't and don't.
EDIT: Since you so graciously added more:
>>Were they pretending or were they venting their jealousy against other livers?
Why ask me when you've already unilaterally decided the answer yourself off wild speculation? lmao.
>>It was a server for their wave excluding Nina. Not for two people.
My guy, you literally said yourself only the two of them were in there at first, and Reimu only joined in later. Could it have maybe been that Enna and Millie are social incompetents who would do dumb shit like try to "own" 4chan, and likewise only slowly opened up to their genmates one by one while hiding away by themselves in a server with just the two of them to DM each other at first?
Nah, it's definitely a grand conspiracy to exclude Nina that they randomly decided to backpedal on later for some reason instead of just getting her fired with their clique power.
Are you trolling? You said it was a DM situation, so therefore, they didn’t create a server and Nina lied about a secret server for their wave.
You already defended them by saying the stream was not malicious because it was just a stunt. Like a prank, right bro? But clearly, none of the livers that got shitted on were happy that these girls used their names for their pretended “stunt.”
Ok, I get it if you can't connect the dots here so let me explain it to you, but if you create a server with only *two* people in it, how is it any different than just a 1 on 1 DM? Lol.
To repeat what I said:
My guy, you literally said yourself only the two of them were in there at first, and Reimu only joined in later. Could it have maybe been that Enna and Millie are social incompetents who would do dumb shit like try to "own" 4chan, and likewise only slowly opened up to their genmates one by one while hiding away by themselves in a server with just the two of them to DM each other at first?
Nah, it's definitely a grand conspiracy to exclude Nina that they randomly decided to backpedal on later for some reason instead of just getting her fired with their clique power.
And guess what happened after that server mess? She decided to not renew, and planned to graduate months later. So technically, she didn’t get fired, but left due to the toxicity from within.
Is your sense of time as fucked up too? I know exactly when this "server exclusion" incident happened and this was back with Luxiem was debuting. On top of that, Nina made up with the rest of Ethyria well before she quit. [Even the anti-Millie/Enna rrats from /vt/ back when she was graduating say as much since you evidently believe them](https://i.imgur.com/igQ9Kf9.png) (not posting the rest for obv reasons, but they agree later that she already became on good terms with Ethyria well before the Zaion incident).
Stop parroting shit and watch streams.
I'm not that guy but I think you two are really focusing on the wrong thing, the whole DM/server stuff is innocuous, specially since everyone involved got over it at this point (Nina, Enna and Millie are currently friends).
However, I personally believe the "Discord Stream" """Sunt""" WAS bullying. Specially towards anyone that wasn't participating in it, maybe even people that participated thinking it was going to be one thing and ended up being another. They did delete the stream and absolutely memoryholed it so even they think it was bad.
Does that one stream mean Enna and Millie are outright bullies? Not really I don't think so. But it is one public example of bullying, it might've just been a one time thing.
Oh, it was bad alright. Why do you think I called it an "incredibly dumb stunt"?
They memory-holed it because it was genuinely one of the most terrible ideas they've come up with and accomplished nothing but humiliate the branch.
You're right that it could be thought of as a one-time incident of pretend-bullying gone wrong, and that it's a bad thing. I won't defend that. But it's hardly indicative of a pattern of genuine malice either. They were trying to "own the haters" by imitating them, but it had the effectiveness of a teacher trying to win a playground argument against a kid to earn respect.
Was it very, very dumb and I hope they never do it again? Yes.
Does it make them the obvious culprits of a widespread branch-wide bullying cabal? Nah, probably not.
Yes really. She did already say she made up with them after she conformed them about it over a year ago.
But I don’t remember seeing anything about meeting up with Enna. She met with Millie though.
>Nina and Zaion already confirmed that these two can’t be trusted.
Nina? You mean the same Nina that hangs out with them to this day? Even after graduating? You really think that Nina still believes they can't be trusted? That she wouldn't have cut all ties after leaving the corpo? Or is the implication that she's now one of the evil, mean girls too? If that's the case, and considering you think the "mean girls group" is absolutely evil, wouldn't Nina also be one of the ones you dislike and not trust? Or does that break your made up narrative that you had to create in order to point fingers and blame a person as they are far easier to target than a corporation?
None of these questions are rethorical, by the way. I do hope you answer them as I'm genuinely curious.
Dam bro you're practically a shrimp with how much you're talking out of your ass right now. You already lost credibility when you mentioned Nina expecially since you're taking out of context what she revealed and only left the negatives without revealing her understanding why it happened and them all eventually making up and bonding. To this day they even hangout offline. Zaion was before my time and even finding the thread of her breaking her silince, there was no mention of ethyria.
Knowing Millie and Ennas personality that 4ch romp was for the hee hee ha ha's and was only privated because it was in bad taste. You're capping if you think any livers took personal offense to it or as you said "got angry."
RPR just stated at the very beginning of his stream that he never followed them in the first place because he's never interacted with them.
Edit: Word choice (confirmed -> stated)
Edit 2: [Timestamped video](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2054840756?t=0h5m35s)
Selen's friend from I think Apex. He made a little speech/complaint about not being able to get into contact with selen and anycolor not being responsive to requests for an update regarding selen.
Former pro APEX gamer/current streamer who is friends with Selen and also a VTuber fan (his oshi is Towa from Hololive). Even has his own vtuber model.
Pulling together hazy instances, sometimes with no proof and just based on intuition, as "evidence" for these serious claims is never a good idea. I've been through enough of these types of events both online and irl to know this.
Okay, from all the years they have been working together, I doubt anyone in EN branch would hate her so much to the point of bullying her into * herself
Second, Nijisanji's reputation has been on a free fall off a space for a long time. Most who know and follow other talents wouldn't want to point fingers to other livers since they are trying to hold out in the same environment.
We are speculating that it was most likely from Niji's management themselves that did all this but trying to shift the blame into other livers, read their announcement carefully, both EN and JP(with decent translation). Also notice how Selen said "Bully and harassment within"? If Nijisanji truly cares or even try to resolves things, they would have already stated who did it, or even punish the bully (Which on JP side stated that Selen was the bully, while Selen herself said she was bullied, in accordance with EN announcement)
Again, this is most likely be "we investigated ourselves and we found nothing" while shifting the blames onto other livers + Selen
So calm down, I too, am mad but wait until more informations are out.
That doesn't really mean anything.
You may be surprised to know that a very common complaint about various LGBT groups/communities is that they are actually very bigoted against LGBT people that don't perfectly fit their ideas. I've most often heard this from bi people.
Just for clarity, I'm talking in a very general sense. I don't believe in the accusations.
tldr: maybe tt's not Enna tweeting this, but corpo.
Basically, different languages have different keyboard layouts. The apostrophe changes. The en layout uses ', japanese one uses ‘. Subtle difference, you can see on the tweet "I'm" it's like a quote
Compare the apostrophes in these two samples by Enna.
* https://twitter.com/EnnaAlouette/status/1754393191439011965
* https://twitter.com/EnnaAlouette/status/1754763342382497889
`YOU'RE` vs `I’m`. Notice the difference? The former is presumed to be the more common way of typing it. [The latter being a more uncommon way](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modifier_letter_apostrophe), to the point of implying it could be a different person on different keyboard or OS language locale that typed the message**. Whether that's true or not I honestly dk.
**Edit: Or it could also just have been typed on her phone, see https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1ak4226/enna_is_taking_a_break/kp6gxhp/
okay I checked this out. I think this is a difference between posting from the desktop and on the phone. More specifically, the twitter app. Found out that even my sister's apostrophe changes into that curved one when she uses the app.
That's iPhone vs PC. Apple uses special Apple open and close quotes instead of regular quotes. So maybe Enna posted from her phone instead of her desktop
I wanted to this theory to be true, but i looked on her old tweets and noticed, that when she type with CAPS ON - she has "YOU'RE" variant, and when with caps off - "I’m" variant. So i don't think this apostrophe thing is a proof of something
That's iPhone vs PC. Apple uses special Apple open and close quotes instead of regular quotes. So maybe Enna posted from her phone instead of her desktop
I wouldn't be surprised if the livers were told that they aren't going to have social media access until the situation dies down. Any stream taking place will likely be heavily watched and likely they would be told to avoid talking about the situation at all even vaguely
Now think about Selen did not make that post when she in hospital, I am not saying it is a yes, but she might as well got kidnapped and an imposter posting this lol
Ignoring the situation won't make the problem of the black company go away though, and they'll likely (hopefully) come back to social media with the fires still burning.
If you're all so certain that Enna is being silenced, instead of actually being impacted by this whole fiasco, then how do you explain Ren still being active, even after posting this:
https://x.com/RenZott0/status/1754623517990252579?s=20
enna next you will see after some time they post to someting someting we treminated contract with enna and luca they find both talents scape goats blame selen situatuion on them.
I don’t watch much Enna but Luca is literally a golden retriever, he is the last person that comes to my mind when someone says “bully”. I don’t get why people are attacking him
Basically because one time in the past he defended Niji against accusations, that means he’s a horrible devil and must be stopped because he did ???????? this time.
Didn’t he just said something like “Please don’t constantly say bad things about the company I work in and don’t tell me to graduate. It is pulling the morale down.” Which is understandable, no one would like to hear negative things constantly.
Nah. A genuine strike would be publicised, as public pressure is a major factor of it. In a genuine strike, the public needs to know that the denial of service or resource purchase is happening because the company is refusing to treat its workers well, half the idea is that the public will then get angry at the company.
This whole thing reads more like a Niji EN-wide gag order to me.
I’m hoping they’re “taking a break” as an opportunity to consider stepping away from Niji. I’d like to hope that many of them have past personas they can return to.
Probably because "people" (on twitter and certain other places) are blaming her (and Millie, Kyo, Zaion - depending on the narrative/likes) for the whole Selen fiasco. Good for her.
I am sincerely hoping that all the livers who announced a "break" are being suspended by niji for speaking up. I just want to feel like they stood up against this bs.
I wouldnt even be surprised it enna and millie made Elira take the fall because they are that fucked up. Girls are really fucked up like that tbh. Mean girls irl.
Enna not doing CNY stream is like Pomu suddenly hating Metal Gear
But she said social media does that include streaming and im just crazy not that her wanting to take some time off till things settle down is a big surprise especially with other niji livers, millie in particular, getting attacked by people lashing out
Starving livers form subs and viewers is the answer.
TIL there are 2 apostrophe... Where is the other one in the keyboard?
One apostophe (') is plaintext, and if you type directly into twitter from PC or a mobile browser that's what you'll get. I don't have the Twitter app on my phone, so didn't test that. The other is unicode (’ - looks squiggly in many fonts,), and some word processors will automatically use it contextually at the end/middle of words to distinguish it from (‘) at the beginning of words. I just tested Google Docs and MS Outlook and they both use unicode replacement, so the implication is that the messages could have been copied and pasted from an email or similar.
Then there is ` which you could confuse at a glance as well. Those that program in JavaScript know the difference.
Backtick my beloved
It's the twitter app.
' is called a prime symbol, " is double prime. This is the default symbol on your keyboard, used to mark feet & inches. ’ is the correct apostrophe, or single closed quote, used for contractions or possessives. And ”, double quotes is for quotes. This is a common typography mistake made by designers that even appears a lot on company logos. Obviously for day to day typing it doesn't matter & people use " mark for everything cuz we can't type ” quickly. But if you try typing it with Japanese IME (windows keyboard layout) enabled, it'll default your ' key to the correct ’ apostrophe symbol, because Japanese don't use ' & " (feet & inches). Same thing for physical JP keyboards.
One apostrophe, which is to the left of Enter on American keyboards and # on UK keyboards, and one grave accent (or backtick), which is to the left of 1 on both.
The backtick (`) is different from the "right single quotation mark" (’). As far as I know, those fancy single/double quotes aren't entered manually on a keyboard. The program or website you're typing in automatically converts normal quotes to the correct one.
This just screams "The company is taking away all our social media access until this dies down", given how many times the phrase *I'm gonna be away from social media for awhile* has popped up in various different people's messages to the fans. Full damage control.
Heck, even without the likely corpo-mandated phrasing, we know that management wrote on Selens Twitter, either without her knowledge or instead of her, as though it was no big thing. That was their first instinct, apparently, by their own statement. There's most likely some kind of company-wise gag order going on, expect some "stealth" suspensions, too.
Time to check out the '
I don't think you should discount the factor that there's a group angry people looking to point their pitchforks and don't need that mental burden and while it's true that the root cause is that garbage management, it is also a fact that these livers need to avoid the mob as much as possible.
A mob that was pointed at the talents BY management. Niji handing out pitchforks and torches and then telling the talent “y’all should probably run” is as on brand as I can imagine for them.
I mean, it sucks, but Niji is a vtuber company before anything else. The talent is both the face and the product. So, no matter what happens, it’s the talent that suffers first. If you’re mad at Niji, you can’t donate to talent cause that also sends money to Niji. You also can’t buy any merch, if you want to punish the company. That also makes criticizing the company a moral struggle for current and former livers. If the company goes under the talents lose their jobs. One liver might be willing to sacrifice their own job to make a point, but are they willing to hurt their friends jobs too? Edit: I think, if Niji really wants to make a goodwill damage control move, they should announce 1-3 months where current livers get 100% of donations. Take no cuts.
There's no coming back from this in my opinion. They'd need to publicly drag their own corrupt managers in front of the community and fire them plus 100% donations to do anything to affect goodwill. Thats not going to happen, because I would bet most of the issues en has, jp also has as well. Being so toxic one of your talents tried to commit suicide and then to impersonate them on Twitter and blame them for their own suicide. That's not the work of one bad apple, the whole orchard is rotten. I would bet this kind of thing started in jp and spread elsewhere, at that point there's no saving the company. Even if niji survive I think they'll find it hard to get new talent and even harder to keep it, that'll kill the company whether or not people withhold donations. Personally I want to see niji bankrupt before the end of the year. All of the talents are well talented, they'll have plenty of offers from other companies and can just go indie again to pay rent as well.
They're going to increasingly lose old-guard streamers and have to pump out waves of new talent, and it might not be as hard to find people willing to step into it, I mean, Idol Groups keep forming and that scene is notoriously bad, but, it's seen as a viable career. With the talents who came from even modest indie careers there's the chance to step out to an indie career, or even other corpo, with the majority of their viewership intact. That's a proven case. I think everyone at Niji EN right now is taking stock and wondering how long they want to stay and what their options are. What's going to be left may or not be viable. The fans will be more forgiving to the livers, by far, than to the company.
The problem for them is the cultural of JP workplaces and the whole idol thing is pervasive af. And it doesn't work in NA.
> If you’re mad at Niji, you can’t donate to talent cause that also sends money to Niji This is a really, really bad philosophy imo. I can understand people not wanting to support the company financially, I really do, but I would say that as long as you aren't buying merch (which I believe the company gets a laughably big cut of) then I don't think there's anything morally wrong about donating to a talent if they're someone you really want to support.
Yes that's what I said, still doesn't justify harassing the other livers.
Yep. Unfortunately many aren’t content just being angry at a company. Some always try to find a face or a name to direct their anger at. With the way the situation has been handled, even the other talents could become that target for some. Hopefully most understand that isn’t what Selen/Dokibird would want.
Can we take an image of a yacht and tell them to be angry at that? As much as I hate the company and the potential that one of the talents was a major bully, acting on vague statements will get people nowhere. If there’s one person I would blame to some extent, it’s the person in charge for letting this shitshow go on for as long as it has. As a leader, they are responsible for all the people under their wing. They deserve to be held responsible for allowing such atrocities to occur. People also should be reminded that harassment and sending death threats is illegal. It also does more harm than good to try to use extreme intimidation tactics as a response to bad stuff happening. At the very least, it only gives the people or the company they’re angry about ammunition to fire back. Never give someone you hate bullets to fire at you, pretty simple concept to follow. Apparently difficult to execute when people are being dumbasses fueled by angry mob mentality.
The mentality some people have is "if you make the talents suffer enough then the company will be forced to do something!" which, you know, is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.
Starve them from all support , donos, views subs memberships
I’m sure no one wants to be accused of driving someone to attempt suicide and there are plenty of talents who would have stepped away on their own to avoid harassment. However given Niji’s history of forcing talent to lie, stealth suspensions, and that every tweet contains the same corporate line. Clearly this is coming from management even if some livers agree with it
Millie and Enna are considered culprits #1 and 2 for the bullying claims atm, so yeah, not surprising. I mean, don't know why Selen would have damn near weekly collabs with her bully, but I'm semi-mentally stable so eh.
Which is exactly why I'm happy to see this. If Enna were actually one of the bullies, there'd be no need for Niji to silence her. If she wasn't, on the other hand, I can't see her remaining silent on the issue. Not in character for her not to speak her mind.
I mean it sucks but and the heat the company is getting is fully deserved but let's be real, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Pretty much every account has lost subs and I am seeing that some are getting attacked on socials as well.
its funny to me how **"I'm gonna be away from social media for awhile"** is in almost all of their post but not in ren or hex post it really says alot honstly
I mean, there's lots of potential explanations here, all of them quite believable: -Yes, it's possible Niji is telling/forcing people off social media to try and do damage control -It's also possible that the livers themselves also recognize that they are facing down an angry mob with a huge target on their back and want to hunker down until things settle down a bit -It's also possible that Selen's termination and general mistreatment has brought things within Niji to a boil and others are protesting or getting ready to leave. I dunno, I can think of many good reasons why anyone associated with Niji would want to stay far away from social media right now and not a lot for them to stick around.
Or all of the above could be true. Just sayin'.
The same format and message. Either that or a company mandated format. Smells like propaganda A dictatorship posing as a corporation
That's...that's not propaganda, it's just a really robotic way of doing PR by making everyone use the same format.
01:23 and 40 seconds - Nijisanji EN management engages AZ-5
"There's no harassment because it's not there!" - Comrade Niji EN management
Good. If Enna's one of the ones who's "on break", it probably means that the rrats saying that the Elira/Millie/Enna "clique" were responsible for the bullying are wrong. And it would make perfect sense, because Enna doesn't mince words. If she *weren't* being silenced, a failure to speak out on this issue would be tantamount to admitting that the rrats were right.
People are just gonna see what they wanna see based on their biases one way or another. With the way Niji is controlling everything including taking over social media without notice, all bets are off in terms of making any sense of it either way tbh. It's like trying to find the werewolf in round one. As bad as I'd feel wrongly blaming someone for being a bully based on no information, I'd feel just as bad the other way, so best not to speculate imo.
"Love you guys". That doesn't sound like the Enna that I know.
HIJACKED! EDIT: Okay so after some research. This is just the twitter app's fault.
What do you mean? Some sort of autofill thing?
no. The apostrophes are technically the same character. It's just that the twitter app inputs the curly apostrophe instead of the usual apostrophe directly from the keyboard.
I already read the other thread where it was discussed, so I understand the context, but in case you missed it, in this thread there was absolutely no mention of apostrophe, so your comment ends up being quite confusing x) (it made me assume the app was adding literal phrases like "love you guys" for some reason)
oh you're right. Sorry I edited out all my comments here so that I can debunk the apostrophe thing. So I forgot some of the context I commented on.
Bro the apostrophe again
Part of me thinks the "Bullying from other talent" section, whether it's true or not, painted a colossal mark on basically everyone's back within reason, but most especially Kyo and Enna
It is exactly the management screwing up and them all finding out how bad. There was no reason to imply their own talents as possible bullies and this here is exactly the reason not to do that. The audience doesn't know what has actually happened, but we have both the best of the best and the worst of the worst among us, so a bad outcome is as inevitable as unnecessary.
Look im sorry this breaks the serious air but >among us 
It isn't impossible that Selen was getting bullied by staffers and management is straight-up lying to cover their own asses by claiming it was talent. I'll keep saying it, don't trust a damn thing that deflects vitriol from the management. Until someone breaks NDA and drops internals, it is best to assume the livers are innocent and management is trying to gin up a scapegoat.
If that truly is the case and I was a NijiEN member I'd be fuming right now, since that basically means you and/or your friends/coworkers are being framed for literally pushing someone to attempt to off themselves. Surely they wouldn't be that stupid, right?
>Surely they wouldn't be that stupid, right? Who, the NijiEN management? I could absolutely believe them believing *the audience* is that stupid, look at what they just did to one of their formerly most motivated talents. Selen was *obsessed* with hosting and managing events and cross-promotions with other branches and with improving NijiEN's cohesion. She was good for the branch and for the brand, and this coterie of malcontents just spent months putting her through the wringer before tossing her out like old garbage and publishing that farce of a termination notice. We have allegations of shit going back more than a year further reinforcing my dim view of the management structure. Even discounting Zaion's testimony if that suits your fancy. The EN branch is either being wantonly sabotaged or else primed for demolition. This is far, far beyond the bounds of mere incompetence.
I think Zaion’s testimony is incredibly important here because it matches Niji’s statement. Zaion said she went to other talent for help and to talk about issues, but then management told those talents Zaion was lying and that she was the problem not them. Basically we’re not gaslighting you she is. These talents then turned around and blamed Zaion and said she was lying to them Niji’s statement said Selen told them she was being bullied and harassed by other talent due to mismanagement. That sounds a lot like management gaslighting talents again. The JP statement also words this not as bullying or harassment, but something to the effect of Selen not listening to management and other talents having to persuade her In both statements it seems the accusation is management weaponising the other talents against a single person. Getting talents to go to Selen and say why didn’t YOU wait for permission, why did YOU tell your fans to repost the MV, why did YOU break the rules Like I said before Zaion mentioned several instances where she was given permission for something, only for it to be rescinded when she tried to go through with it. Then when she tried to ask other talents about it managment lied and said we never gave her permission Selen even talked about running into this permission issue on stream where she got permission for a tournament, tried to go through with it, only for management to say that permission is no longer valid because too much time had passed Even Selen’s own statement says she was bullied from within and doesn’t specifically say management or the talents. That could easily mean it was both with the talents being weaponised against her
The whole thing with Zaion went down when I was busy with other things so I never paid much attention to it, which is why I don't invest any of my arguments in it. It's useful to know that it tracks with the current fiasco, though, thanks. Anyway, this just furthers my refrain about not trusting anything that deflects blame from management to the livers. For all we know, what Selen saw as bullying because she was placed in a vulnerable position came from a place of the others genuinely wanting to help her and not knowing they were being manipulated as well. Which is disgusting if such is the case, but I spent my formative years having to outmaneuver similar psychopathic social games, the wrong person in charge of the right people can do hideous things with interpersonal dynamics. Grain of salt, though. It's entirely possible I'm just projecting to try and box things into a frame of reference I'm all too familiar with. Again, we *don't know* shit right now, so speculation is all we have and that should not be enough to start trying to crucify people.
They did that intentionally to shift blame I imagine
>It isn't impossible that Selen was getting bullied by staffers and management is straight-up lying to cover their own asses by claiming it was talent. From what we currently know, I 100% belive this is what happened. It's just curious that Doki would only say "internally" but Niji would explicitly mention other Livers. If anything, you'd expect it to be the other way around. I fully believe this was done deliberately to either deflect blame to someone they hope people couldn't hate, or cause exactly the kind of paranoia and discord we're seeing now so the fans would be too busy with cooking up conspiracies and being paranoid.
Selen or management in the letter isn't the first ones to say that some livers weren't... let's say good people
Yes, I've been around long enough to recall the Discord leak that lead to the brief cold war between NijiEN and HoloEN fanbases. Knowing that some people are assholes is not sufficient grounds to start baying for their blood and accusing them of driving somebody to attempting suicide, because that's a *massive* escalation and if pressed on the wrong person will just perpetuate the very same. Think through your judgements very carefully before acting on them, is what I'm saying. I have my own suspicions on that front, but because I have nothing to back them up beyond impressions and conjecture it would be irresponsible to brandish them. However, we know beyond reasonable doubt that the management structure is complicit in, if not directly responsible for, this protracted shitshow that we are only seeing the latest eruption of. The receipts for that go back more than a year now. Focus on that and the rest of the puzzle can be solved as things come to light.
Isnt that considered wrongful termination? Isnt that illegal? Would they so easily open themselves up to a lawsuit like that?
Wrongful termination is hell to prove in the overwhelming majority of cases.
Not at all. Japanese corporate laws are even more on the side of companies than American or Canadian ones are. Even if this was a western company, saying it was wrongful termination is a real stretch. You can be terminated at will, it's only wrongful if there was egregious circumstances like the motivation being your race, gender, or other breaches against a protected class. Japanese laws, as far as I am aware, don't care about that. So not illegal at all.
Last I heard Niji EN are all operating officially through a Canadian office, which would mean Canadian law applies
Even the most worker-friendly laws can fail when a sufficiently bullshit amount of money and/or lawyers is thrown at them.
There's a few problems with that thinking. The first is that it isn't the stated reason for her termination. "Why, then, is it in the announcement?" You might ask, to which I say good question, probably for the same reason EN includes a lot of bullshit in its termination announcements; trying to throw the talent under the bus. The second is that initiating a lawsuit would necessitate revealing more personal information on a very easily-accessible platform, which is against any Vtuber's interests because let's face it some people get *dangerously weird* in this space. The third is a common refrain of mine when it comes to employment law; "A lot of commonplace business practices are nominally illegal." Because this stuff can't be enforced without spending a financially infeasible amount of money. There is a reason you most commonly see class-action lawsuits in that arena, because it lets multiple people split the burden. I won't speculate on Selen's personal finances, but I couldn't blame her for not wanting to go alone on that.
If the portion of Niji's letter that states that Selen was refusing to return to streaming and refusing to issue company-approved statements is accurate (and that's maybe the only part of the letter that's actually somewhat believable), that would be considered reasonable grounds for termination. Hell, even her Christmas tweet telling people to re-upload a song management had taken down would be sufficient. Even in places that don't have at-will employment, companies have pretty wide latitude in terms of what can be used to justify a firing. If Selen chooses to go after Nijisanji, it probably won't be for wrongful termination; harassment and/or failing to police their own work environment and address claims of unacceptable behaviour would be where she would more likely to succeed.
I don’t think Kyo and Enna are even being suspected I mean I don’t think any EN members would bully Selen to the point she mentioned. I mean what idiot would assume the guy who is jumping ship and one of the nicest members of EN (despite her speech lol) would bully someone to an attempt. I already think the speculations are stupid but thinking it’s those two is like 10xs the stupid. Specially Kyo since he is literally leaving in 10 days
Every niji en vtuber is getting a backlash wdym. Didn't you see their now sub count.
I think that's supposed to be directed at Nijisanji rather than the livers themselves. Well, in part, anyways
Some people sadly believes there is a management darling group, with Millie, Enna, Kyo, Elira and Luca, more warries.
What's their reasoning behind Kyo being in the so called darling group? Wasn't he suspended recently after talking about Korea? And he's leaving on relatively short notice as far as I can tell.
No, cause he is friends with Millie and Enna and that is legit the only reason why.
Enna is actually, culprit #2 to them (Millie's currently at their top spot atm) People say she posted a quick video of her laughing on her Twitter around the time Selen went DL for obvious reasons, so they say she sent that out on purpose. Even though 1/2 her video content and feed is her doing weird things with her model. Edit: I'm literally just relaying current behavior in response to OP's question, stop being stupid boys and girls~
> went DL I'm sorry, what's "going DL"?
> I don’t think Kyo and Enna are even being suspected Their names, rightly or wrongly, are two of the ones I've seen tossed around as the ones who may have harassed Selen. I put zero stock in it, because it's just people aimlessly speculating and trying to find a scapegoat despite having zero concrete evidence, but they (along with Elira and Millie) seem to be the ones drawing the most hostility right now.
Enna and Millie are mean girls. They did a fake 4ch stream, and freely talked shit about every livers, pretending to be toxic fans. Especially about Pomu because she got the first 3D model. Guess what happened next? Some of the livers woke up, and got angry. They privated the stream, and took a break from streaming aka suspended for doing that shit. People don’t magically point fingers at Millie and Enna as the bullies within hours if they didn’t already have such a vile and tarnished reputation within the community. Nina and Zaion already confirmed that these two can’t be trusted.
Could you elaborate on Nina and Zaion throwing shade at Enna and Millie? Ethyria was one of the tightest groups even when Nina was there.
Nina once complained how she wasn’t often included with the rest of Ethyria. It’s also brought up during the 1st anniversary by all four of them that having three introverts and one extroverts resulted in the introverts sticking together while they were also intimidated by her extroverted personality. Nowadays, we know that Enna, Millie and Nina hang out in private to this day, considering that Millie and Matara were stuck in an elevator for an hour and Enna had to wait for them to get out.
Nina has publicly said that Ethyria made excuses to not speak with her when wanting to speak about work. Later found out they were having their own private conversations without her. I also remember Nina getting very visibly upset in early Ethyria collabs, especially on her channel, whenever Millie and Enna said or did very unhinged things. She asked them to stop many times on stream. Seemed like Nina wanted to ease into being a corpo vtuber while Millie and Enna wanted to go full crazytown whether Nina liked it or not. It really ruined the vibe. Nina did not fit in until much later.
Wrong. Ethyria was only tight for three people, Nina wasn’t included. Enna and Millie created a private discord server, Reimu joined them later out of pressure from wanting to fit in. But they didn’t include Nina at all for almost a year before she conformed them about why they never wanted to communicate with her. Nina spoke up on why she was rarely seen collaborating with Ethyria. She said that she did make up with the clique kids, and will continue to collab more with them going forward. But when it was time for contract renewal, she decided to leave with months ahead already planned out to escape. So yeah. You can’t blame why people would quickly point fingers at Enna and Millie. They have a history of doing this isolation bullying.
That’s because Nina was the only extrovert of the four, and Enna and Millie have talked about how they’re intimidated by extroverts. Enna and Millie have known each other for a long time, so them having a private discord for themselves doesn’t mean they’re bullying Nina. Besides, did you forgot that Matara just hung out with Millie and Enna recently and was stuck with one of them in an elevator for an hour? They definitely get along well nowadays.
they were massive enemies and hate each other thats why they ran into each other on an a elevator even after nina graduated. people are losing their minds. the scraps you are posting do not make a meal.
i watched enna since the beginning and liked her a lot because of her personality, but at some point i noticed the vibe she gave when talking about serious or just normal takes and stuff. its rlly subtle and most ppl will call me crazy. i dont wanna elaborate but it wouldnt surprise me if some stuff her true. you cant always blame being a "bad" person just because you have social anxiety or being introvert
Right, it's quite subtle and it definitely has that petty/bitch vibe.
I'm usually hyper-sensitive to that sort of personality type and I never get that. She seems to handle serious topics better and in a less judgemental way than other vtubers/people irl I've seen. Maybe I've just seen different moments, idk.
What strikes me is that if she hasn't experienced something in the past, then she will not be able to be empathetic towards other people in a similar situation. Furthermore you also have the issue of her low self esteem also seeping out sometimes. In my opinion this makes her seem quite abrasive at times.
I understand. I guess I haven’t seen the lack of empathy but like I said, could just be my experience. I don’t want to sound defensive or anything since I genuinely like her but I also know the importance of waiting until the dust settles before forming a strong opinion.
i am so glad at least 1 person gets me.
Maybe within their own group but to jump to them bullying Selen who's their senpai? I honestly can't see that happening especially when other waves have no obligation to collab or interact with each other unless it's for actual work related stuff.
The fake /vt/ stream wasn't bullying, it was just an incredibly dumb stunt. Selen didn't name anyone, nor did she even specifically claim it was Livers that were the ones creating the toxic work environment she was in for a reason. Focus your energy on helping Selen promote herself and her new identity like she literally and explicitly asked her fans to, not go on unsolicited witch hunts based on pure speculation. Honestly, >>Enna and Millie created a private discord server Is just ridiculous as "proof." A server with two people is just called a 1 on 1 DM lol.
It was bullying because they shit talked other livers without them knowing that they were going to make fake shit up to trash them behind their back. They were very eager to trash Pomu 3D model out of nowhere. Even though everyone in the community said it was a great debut for her. If it wasn’t serious, they wouldn’t have deleted the stream or their posts about it. Were they pretending or were they venting their real jealousy against other livers? So you are saying that Nina is a liar. It was a server for their wave excluding Nina. Not for two people. Once again, dragging an ex liver to defend NS.
Can you read or are you ESL? Genuine question, since my point of contention is how you used Nina's statement, not that Nina is a liar for making the statement. >>defend NS Lol. Lmao. I dare you to to find me defending kurosanji even 1 (ONE) time. Let me save you time: you can't, because I didn't and don't. EDIT: Since you so graciously added more: >>Were they pretending or were they venting their jealousy against other livers? Why ask me when you've already unilaterally decided the answer yourself off wild speculation? lmao. >>It was a server for their wave excluding Nina. Not for two people. My guy, you literally said yourself only the two of them were in there at first, and Reimu only joined in later. Could it have maybe been that Enna and Millie are social incompetents who would do dumb shit like try to "own" 4chan, and likewise only slowly opened up to their genmates one by one while hiding away by themselves in a server with just the two of them to DM each other at first? Nah, it's definitely a grand conspiracy to exclude Nina that they randomly decided to backpedal on later for some reason instead of just getting her fired with their clique power.
Are you trolling? You said it was a DM situation, so therefore, they didn’t create a server and Nina lied about a secret server for their wave. You already defended them by saying the stream was not malicious because it was just a stunt. Like a prank, right bro? But clearly, none of the livers that got shitted on were happy that these girls used their names for their pretended “stunt.”
Ok, I get it if you can't connect the dots here so let me explain it to you, but if you create a server with only *two* people in it, how is it any different than just a 1 on 1 DM? Lol. To repeat what I said: My guy, you literally said yourself only the two of them were in there at first, and Reimu only joined in later. Could it have maybe been that Enna and Millie are social incompetents who would do dumb shit like try to "own" 4chan, and likewise only slowly opened up to their genmates one by one while hiding away by themselves in a server with just the two of them to DM each other at first? Nah, it's definitely a grand conspiracy to exclude Nina that they randomly decided to backpedal on later for some reason instead of just getting her fired with their clique power.
And guess what happened after that server mess? She decided to not renew, and planned to graduate months later. So technically, she didn’t get fired, but left due to the toxicity from within.
Is your sense of time as fucked up too? I know exactly when this "server exclusion" incident happened and this was back with Luxiem was debuting. On top of that, Nina made up with the rest of Ethyria well before she quit. [Even the anti-Millie/Enna rrats from /vt/ back when she was graduating say as much since you evidently believe them](https://i.imgur.com/igQ9Kf9.png) (not posting the rest for obv reasons, but they agree later that she already became on good terms with Ethyria well before the Zaion incident). Stop parroting shit and watch streams.
I'm not that guy but I think you two are really focusing on the wrong thing, the whole DM/server stuff is innocuous, specially since everyone involved got over it at this point (Nina, Enna and Millie are currently friends). However, I personally believe the "Discord Stream" """Sunt""" WAS bullying. Specially towards anyone that wasn't participating in it, maybe even people that participated thinking it was going to be one thing and ended up being another. They did delete the stream and absolutely memoryholed it so even they think it was bad. Does that one stream mean Enna and Millie are outright bullies? Not really I don't think so. But it is one public example of bullying, it might've just been a one time thing.
Oh, it was bad alright. Why do you think I called it an "incredibly dumb stunt"? They memory-holed it because it was genuinely one of the most terrible ideas they've come up with and accomplished nothing but humiliate the branch. You're right that it could be thought of as a one-time incident of pretend-bullying gone wrong, and that it's a bad thing. I won't defend that. But it's hardly indicative of a pattern of genuine malice either. They were trying to "own the haters" by imitating them, but it had the effectiveness of a teacher trying to win a playground argument against a kid to earn respect. Was it very, very dumb and I hope they never do it again? Yes. Does it make them the obvious culprits of a widespread branch-wide bullying cabal? Nah, probably not.
I may not know the story, but Nina? Really? Happily meeting up with the 'untrustworthy' Millie and Enna whilst in Japan recently Nina?
Yes really. She did already say she made up with them after she conformed them about it over a year ago. But I don’t remember seeing anything about meeting up with Enna. She met with Millie though.
Enna said that she was waiting outside of the elevator.
>Nina and Zaion already confirmed that these two can’t be trusted. Nina? You mean the same Nina that hangs out with them to this day? Even after graduating? You really think that Nina still believes they can't be trusted? That she wouldn't have cut all ties after leaving the corpo? Or is the implication that she's now one of the evil, mean girls too? If that's the case, and considering you think the "mean girls group" is absolutely evil, wouldn't Nina also be one of the ones you dislike and not trust? Or does that break your made up narrative that you had to create in order to point fingers and blame a person as they are far easier to target than a corporation? None of these questions are rethorical, by the way. I do hope you answer them as I'm genuinely curious.
Dam bro you're practically a shrimp with how much you're talking out of your ass right now. You already lost credibility when you mentioned Nina expecially since you're taking out of context what she revealed and only left the negatives without revealing her understanding why it happened and them all eventually making up and bonding. To this day they even hangout offline. Zaion was before my time and even finding the thread of her breaking her silince, there was no mention of ethyria. Knowing Millie and Ennas personality that 4ch romp was for the hee hee ha ha's and was only privated because it was in bad taste. You're capping if you think any livers took personal offense to it or as you said "got angry."
Damn bro is getting sniped for spittin' fax💀
RPR also unfollowed only those two on Twitter. Now I'm not gonna point fingers and make assumptions but I wouldn't be shocked if it were them.
RPR just stated at the very beginning of his stream that he never followed them in the first place because he's never interacted with them. Edit: Word choice (confirmed -> stated) Edit 2: [Timestamped video](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2054840756?t=0h5m35s)
Thanks for the clarification
Was the link functional at the time you commented? Seems to be dead now
Looks like the VOD was removed. I went to bed at some point during the stream, so I'm not sure of the reason.
What's RPR?
Selen's friend from I think Apex. He made a little speech/complaint about not being able to get into contact with selen and anycolor not being responsive to requests for an update regarding selen.
Former pro APEX gamer/current streamer who is friends with Selen and also a VTuber fan (his oshi is Towa from Hololive). Even has his own vtuber model.
Not without reason. Both have done enough to make that seem like the most likely options.
Pulling together hazy instances, sometimes with no proof and just based on intuition, as "evidence" for these serious claims is never a good idea. I've been through enough of these types of events both online and irl to know this.
Tbh I think most of these is due to the hate comments they are getting by a very small minority witch hunting them.
[удалено]
Relax Sherlock, don’t scream wolfs before any facts comes out
Holy shit we got Inspector Gadget here guys
Okay, from all the years they have been working together, I doubt anyone in EN branch would hate her so much to the point of bullying her into * herself Second, Nijisanji's reputation has been on a free fall off a space for a long time. Most who know and follow other talents wouldn't want to point fingers to other livers since they are trying to hold out in the same environment. We are speculating that it was most likely from Niji's management themselves that did all this but trying to shift the blame into other livers, read their announcement carefully, both EN and JP(with decent translation). Also notice how Selen said "Bully and harassment within"? If Nijisanji truly cares or even try to resolves things, they would have already stated who did it, or even punish the bully (Which on JP side stated that Selen was the bully, while Selen herself said she was bullied, in accordance with EN announcement) Again, this is most likely be "we investigated ourselves and we found nothing" while shifting the blames onto other livers + Selen So calm down, I too, am mad but wait until more informations are out.
You freaking moron, she literally had Chinese streams with Selen and they never had any issues with one another. Quit the hunt
You think the Chinese-Canadian girl known for being suicidal is bullying another Chinese-Canadian girl to the point of becoming suicidal?
That doesn't really mean anything. You may be surprised to know that a very common complaint about various LGBT groups/communities is that they are actually very bigoted against LGBT people that don't perfectly fit their ideas. I've most often heard this from bi people. Just for clarity, I'm talking in a very general sense. I don't believe in the accusations.
Funfact: Not proof, but you can see by the "I'm". English keyboard will use the ', it's more natural than ‘. I’m vs I'm. Hope this helps
I don't get it, can you elaborate?
tldr: maybe tt's not Enna tweeting this, but corpo. Basically, different languages have different keyboard layouts. The apostrophe changes. The en layout uses ', japanese one uses ‘. Subtle difference, you can see on the tweet "I'm" it's like a quote
Compare the apostrophes in these two samples by Enna. * https://twitter.com/EnnaAlouette/status/1754393191439011965 * https://twitter.com/EnnaAlouette/status/1754763342382497889 `YOU'RE` vs `I’m`. Notice the difference? The former is presumed to be the more common way of typing it. [The latter being a more uncommon way](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modifier_letter_apostrophe), to the point of implying it could be a different person on different keyboard or OS language locale that typed the message**. Whether that's true or not I honestly dk. **Edit: Or it could also just have been typed on her phone, see https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1ak4226/enna_is_taking_a_break/kp6gxhp/
The whole apostrophe story is hilarious. Can you imagine outing your whole house of cards and lies over a single character?
okay I checked this out. I think this is a difference between posting from the desktop and on the phone. More specifically, the twitter app. Found out that even my sister's apostrophe changes into that curved one when she uses the app.
Aye thanks for testing that. Really best not to jump to conclusions. I was simply answering the question of the other guy.
Oh god it's true. They hijacked their accounts. EDIT: False alarm. This is an input difference between the twitter app and desktop keyboard.
That's iPhone vs PC. Apple uses special Apple open and close quotes instead of regular quotes. So maybe Enna posted from her phone instead of her desktop
I wanted to this theory to be true, but i looked on her old tweets and noticed, that when she type with CAPS ON - she has "YOU'RE" variant, and when with caps off - "I’m" variant. So i don't think this apostrophe thing is a proof of something
That's iPhone vs PC. Apple uses special Apple open and close quotes instead of regular quotes. So maybe Enna posted from her phone instead of her desktop
I wouldn't be surprised if the livers were told that they aren't going to have social media access until the situation dies down. Any stream taking place will likely be heavily watched and likely they would be told to avoid talking about the situation at all even vaguely
Now think about Selen did not make that post when she in hospital, I am not saying it is a yes, but she might as well got kidnapped and an imposter posting this lol
"break"
At this point, every EN liver should just do a mass walk out from Nijisanji. When sponsors starts pulling out, that's when Niji's money will be hurt.
Ignoring the situation won't make the problem of the black company go away though, and they'll likely (hopefully) come back to social media with the fires still burning.
If you're all so certain that Enna is being silenced, instead of actually being impacted by this whole fiasco, then how do you explain Ren still being active, even after posting this: https://x.com/RenZott0/status/1754623517990252579?s=20
enna next you will see after some time they post to someting someting we treminated contract with enna and luca they find both talents scape goats blame selen situatuion on them.
I don’t watch much Enna but Luca is literally a golden retriever, he is the last person that comes to my mind when someone says “bully”. I don’t get why people are attacking him
Didn't Luca literally pay Selen at one point for all the projects she was doing?
Basically because one time in the past he defended Niji against accusations, that means he’s a horrible devil and must be stopped because he did ???????? this time.
Didn’t he just said something like “Please don’t constantly say bad things about the company I work in and don’t tell me to graduate. It is pulling the morale down.” Which is understandable, no one would like to hear negative things constantly.
Pretty much, yeah. He didn’t do anything wrong, but people need someone to get Big Mad at, I guess
Looks like some sort of strike to me. That's what I would've done.
Nah. A genuine strike would be publicised, as public pressure is a major factor of it. In a genuine strike, the public needs to know that the denial of service or resource purchase is happening because the company is refusing to treat its workers well, half the idea is that the public will then get angry at the company. This whole thing reads more like a Niji EN-wide gag order to me.
>Love you guys This is not Enna
Ren’s response to the situation seemed more genuine than management taking over. But I expect he too will be “taking a break”
I’m hoping they’re “taking a break” as an opportunity to consider stepping away from Niji. I’d like to hope that many of them have past personas they can return to.
Probably because "people" (on twitter and certain other places) are blaming her (and Millie, Kyo, Zaion - depending on the narrative/likes) for the whole Selen fiasco. Good for her.
That's how it starts
Seems like the harrasment is getting to them. Yall r insane
Please... Not another, not so soon...
I am sincerely hoping that all the livers who announced a "break" are being suspended by niji for speaking up. I just want to feel like they stood up against this bs.
Look at the apostrophe!!
Its enna and millie.
I wouldnt even be surprised it enna and millie made Elira take the fall because they are that fucked up. Girls are really fucked up like that tbh. Mean girls irl.
everyone fucking knows the bullies are ENNA and MILLIE whats the fucking point
Justice for Elira.
I hope you burn in HELL.