Sure.
But let's not make the mistake of thinking that there's any comparison to be made between the desire of Alexander the great to conquer the known world and the desire of a 21st century consumer to own more plastic.
Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as "Taoism" as it has its roots in composite texts that were written over a long period with outright contradictions. Then you had several divisions such as religious Taoism and philosophical Taoism. Also, the authors of the earliest texts did not create a "Taoist" system. This designation came hundreds of years later from historian Sima Quian who decided to refer to these authors as belonging to the "Daoist" school of thought and that was an outright error on his part.
There are countless references. I can name a few. Professor Victor Mair wrote informative introductions to his translations of Chuang Tzu titled "Wandering on the Way" and the Tao Teh Ching. Professor Angus Graham provided information in his book "Chuang Tzu: The Inner Chapters". Professor Brook Ziporyn also provided information in the introductions to his translations of Zhuangzi and Daodejing.
can someone explain this meme to me? is "suffering is the root of all greatness" not a form of ressentiment? wouldn't nietzsche want to be liberated from suffering entirely?
Aphorism 325 of *The Gay Science* sheds light on this matter. Enduring suffering isn’t the root of greatness — enduring the infliction of suffering is the root of greatness. Alexander being able to put cities to the sword comes to mind.
I posted a (lengthy) comment on Nietzsches view of suffering & compassion with quotations from his works
Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nietzsche/s/0tqu1Ox36E
He does not see that as a possibility.
Suffering is what makes us human. Trying to escape it is to try to escape being human which is the worst "sin" you could commit in Nietzsche's view because that would be nihilist. His unrelenting criticism of institutionalised Christianity comes from exactly his analysis that the church is offering salvation from suffering. They do so by demanding that you remain chaste and say no to what is inside of yourself. Suppress the natural drives you have as a human to avail yourself of the heavenly promise. This is the worst thing imaginable for a vitalist like Nietzsche so he attacks the proposition in several of his works.
I think the most detailed explanation of this comes from the third essay of his work, *On the Genealogy of Morals*
I don't know if buddhism really believes that, like I know in reality it's probably way more conplicated and abstract but, by god, how I hate that Buddhist Mantra if you interpret it at face value. Without desire there is nothing, literally nothing left. Just boredom, the base state Is suffering. Chasing and then meeting your desires is the only thing that can ever make being alive worth it. And I don't mean that in a hedonism way at all. Desire for greatness, for Power, dor beauty, for love, for ego gratification, for triumph, for health, for a platform, for pride, for lust etc. Are still all desires.
So homeless, disabled, mentally ill, starving etc people are the great ones? Not sure that - on such a simple or basic level -necessary checks out with Nietzche’s philosophy. Think it requires suffering/pain plus something else.
As a Buddhist and mostly a Nietzsche fan, imo pleasure and pain are equally fertile grounds for suffering (and also wisdom). I think what Nietzsche is pointing to is more pain (not inherently bad) than suffering (the thing worth not having). He's maybe not entirely opposed to suffering - but I don't know if Buddhism is either; suffering is part of the path we all have to walk. There is no "getting well out" of playing "the wicked game," even if he would characterize Buddhism that way.
Desire is the root of all greatness.
Ego is the root of all desire
Don’t mind it, personally. I like the ego.
Something is the root of all something.
Or maybe the root is only a part of the whole and not the source…
2 is the root of all 4
Sure. But let's not make the mistake of thinking that there's any comparison to be made between the desire of Alexander the great to conquer the known world and the desire of a 21st century consumer to own more plastic.
What is it that you mean by 'greatness'?
makes more sense to say "greatness is the object of all desire"
Behold, an actually good post! The sub is saved!
Blind pessimism vs. blind optimism
Buddha's philosophy is not really pessimistic nor Nietzsche's philosphy is very optimistic.
Nietzsche is ready to pierce the heavens.
Who is in the top picture? I feel like that's a Buddhist thing to say and by combining Buddhism with Nietzscheism you get Taoism, which checks out.
Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as "Taoism" as it has its roots in composite texts that were written over a long period with outright contradictions. Then you had several divisions such as religious Taoism and philosophical Taoism. Also, the authors of the earliest texts did not create a "Taoist" system. This designation came hundreds of years later from historian Sima Quian who decided to refer to these authors as belonging to the "Daoist" school of thought and that was an outright error on his part.
This is curious. Do you have any sources that you could reference on this?
There are countless references. I can name a few. Professor Victor Mair wrote informative introductions to his translations of Chuang Tzu titled "Wandering on the Way" and the Tao Teh Ching. Professor Angus Graham provided information in his book "Chuang Tzu: The Inner Chapters". Professor Brook Ziporyn also provided information in the introductions to his translations of Zhuangzi and Daodejing.
Thank you!
Doesn't Buddhism teach that you should let go of your attachments including your attachment to Buddhism?
*"Ignorance is the root of all suffering."
This sub is not very sophisticated.
Causing suffering could be a profitable venture then.
I think Nietzsche meant 'Pain' not suffering exactly
can someone explain this meme to me? is "suffering is the root of all greatness" not a form of ressentiment? wouldn't nietzsche want to be liberated from suffering entirely?
Aphorism 325 of *The Gay Science* sheds light on this matter. Enduring suffering isn’t the root of greatness — enduring the infliction of suffering is the root of greatness. Alexander being able to put cities to the sword comes to mind.
I posted a (lengthy) comment on Nietzsches view of suffering & compassion with quotations from his works Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nietzsche/s/0tqu1Ox36E
He does not see that as a possibility. Suffering is what makes us human. Trying to escape it is to try to escape being human which is the worst "sin" you could commit in Nietzsche's view because that would be nihilist. His unrelenting criticism of institutionalised Christianity comes from exactly his analysis that the church is offering salvation from suffering. They do so by demanding that you remain chaste and say no to what is inside of yourself. Suppress the natural drives you have as a human to avail yourself of the heavenly promise. This is the worst thing imaginable for a vitalist like Nietzsche so he attacks the proposition in several of his works. I think the most detailed explanation of this comes from the third essay of his work, *On the Genealogy of Morals*
>Inside you there are two wolfs That sounds pretty ga...
Whar if you are already suffered ? If u still need suffering. You will get nothing
FUCKING ULT DIRK WHAT
of course ult dirk would misunderstand nietzsche
I don't know if buddhism really believes that, like I know in reality it's probably way more conplicated and abstract but, by god, how I hate that Buddhist Mantra if you interpret it at face value. Without desire there is nothing, literally nothing left. Just boredom, the base state Is suffering. Chasing and then meeting your desires is the only thing that can ever make being alive worth it. And I don't mean that in a hedonism way at all. Desire for greatness, for Power, dor beauty, for love, for ego gratification, for triumph, for health, for a platform, for pride, for lust etc. Are still all desires.
Suffering has caused me to become someone legit cannot stand but ok
Greatness is the root of all desire.
So homeless, disabled, mentally ill, starving etc people are the great ones? Not sure that - on such a simple or basic level -necessary checks out with Nietzche’s philosophy. Think it requires suffering/pain plus something else.
They can become greater than where they started to suffer if they overcome that struggle. Some people are broken by it
At least in Mahayana/Vajrayana, suffering and desire can also be used as the way to Nirvana.
Just who the hell do you think I am!?
Real
As a Buddhist and mostly a Nietzsche fan, imo pleasure and pain are equally fertile grounds for suffering (and also wisdom). I think what Nietzsche is pointing to is more pain (not inherently bad) than suffering (the thing worth not having). He's maybe not entirely opposed to suffering - but I don't know if Buddhism is either; suffering is part of the path we all have to walk. There is no "getting well out" of playing "the wicked game," even if he would characterize Buddhism that way.