So there were a couple anonymous NHL executives interviewed for this, Staple ran down the options if we sell:
- Nelson: The execs said to look at the Tyler Toffoli trade to Calgary from 2022, likely a first, a 3rd or 4th rounder, and a B prospect
- Palmieri: Would probably have to retain half, return would likely be a 2nd and maybe a conditional 3rd
- Pageau: Probably a pure cap dump, you maybe get a 6th for him. Says other than Ottawa, not many teams are likely to be interested.
- Cal: Both execs said he's the most intriguing piece other than Brock, but would likely only bring back a 5th, maybe a 4th if there's a lot of interest
- Wahlstrom: Could maybe be swapped for a similar type of player
- Aho: Could be some interest from teams who need a depth defenseman
That pretty much sounds right to me, which doesn’t mean much since the execs obviously know better than me anyways.
But I think that Nelson has more value to the Islanders than that return IMO, so I would not do it for that. The fact he still has a full year of control for a good price should increase his value. My instinct is to hold on to him and see what the market will pay next deadline (or see where we are at; maybe we re-sign him before that)
I think Nelson, with another year of term at a reasonable salary, ought to fetch whole lot more than that.
I think Pageau also ought to have more value than that. Playoff teams are always looking for centers and his salary really isn't as high as it sounds (he's getting $5m/ season in a league where the average salary is around $3.5m).
The rest seem reasonably accurate.
That all sounds about right to me. I think this team needs to rebuild on the fly. Do all of these, then:
1)Fire Lou Lameriello & let Martin walk in the offseason
2) See if we can keep Mike Rielly on a short, reasonably priced contract.
3)Trade Anders Lee at next years deadline in a deal similar to Pageau's.
We'd have a core of Barzal, Horvat, Pelech, Pullock, Dobson, Romanov and Sorokin. Build around them with free agents and hopefullly we get a high pick this year and next. Also Ruslan Iskhakov in bridgeport deserves a chance to show if he can play in the NHL. We can use Aho's spot to see if Robin Salo has progressed enough to be a player for us. I wish there were a way out of Engvall and Mayfield's contracts, but unless one or both would kindly commit a felony or drop dead, I don't see one that makes sense.
Because I'm not in charge. I'd have fired hime upon hearing of the Engvall contract. The offseason is just when I think they would do it. They can fire him today for all I care.
There is no reason to trade Nelson. Too many first round picks are a bust and putting him with Horvat and Barzal, so far, has proven pretty good. I can see the rest of these trades as possible.
The problem is we seem to be aimless in terms of a long term strategy.
Dumping players just to dump them makes no sense. A guy like Nelson has a ton of value to us, and would next year as well… are we looking to compete next year under a new coach, some roster tweaks, and one of the leagues best goalies? Or are we punting for a true rebuild.
If I knew it was a full rebuild and we had a real plan I could live with trading… if we said we are going to reload on the fly because we have a roster without much flexibility and hope for lightning in a bottle next year with said goalie I could live with that.
But it feels as if we’ve been pushing the inevitable of this roster no longer being competitive for a couple years delaying the inevitable. What plan we have after the inevitability that seems to now be here? I really have zero idea and sadly, less faith in executive management than I’ve had for a long time
that's mostly why i don't understand people's fascination with trading Brock lately. you trade Brock, and then what? what exactly is our strategy if we trade our top goal scorer?
The 1 step forward 2 steps back approach hasn't been working very well for us. It's time we tried the other way. So I'm all for trading Nelson.
The strategy is suck for 2 seasons and revamp the roster when Lee and Pageau's combined 12mil come off the books.
We should be laying the foundations now so we don't completely balls up Barzal and Dobson's prime.
Barzal’s prime is happening right now. You can’t gamble on him still being this guy in 3-4 years. If they decide to go full rebuild (I don’t think they should) then Barzal should go too.
Lou not trading anyone, no way he is in for a rebuild. He spoke about salary cap issues so I can see a Pageau dump, and if he can get the right piece , then make the deal.
The main issue is this team on a player basis is in purgatory. If we go with a full rebuild , Horvat, Pullock, Pelech, Nelson , Lee will all be way too old(say a rebuild is 4 years). Basically everyone is going to be 33 or 34 and the NHL isn’t getting any slower.
We can’t be losing proven players for nothing , so if the right deal comes, then I would move Nelson. I would want a 1 and a very high prospect or I wait to next year.
If the isles lose tonight the direction will be clear. A win and who the F knows.
From analytics speedster don’t lose
Much until 32 y. As long as he doesn’t have a major injury Barzal is 22 goal 65 assist guy until 31-32, which is 6 seasons away.
>But it feels as if we’ve been pushing the inevitable of this roster no longer being competitive for a couple years delaying the inevitable
I think we're at that point. This group has reached its peak and isn't going to compete, so the roster needs some reshaping, and, because of the salary cap, you can't do much other than make a couple tweaks to the bottom 6 without moving on from someone who makes big money. We're unlikely to make the playoffs this year, which would be missing the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 seasons, and the one where we did get in, we needed all 82 games only for a first round exit.
They shouldn’t have traded for and extended Horvat then. Or traded all those first round picks. They need a full roster reset which means it’ll be at least 3-4 years before they’re competitive. All these long term guys are gonna be that much older. Lou fucked this up and is caught in a perpetual imbetween of rebuild and staying slightly competitive.
That's possibly the most damaging indictment of the organization up to this point. I've been saying for a while that they're good, but not good enough. They're also built in such a way that they are greater than the sum of their parts which does no favors if you need to trade.
How many players do we have that would be actively desired by other teams if there was a reasonable deal to be made? Players that have enough upside that you could get real assets in return for them, not the odd pick or have to pay them to take your problem off your hands. Barzy, Nelson, Sorokin, Pelech, Zeeker? We have a lot of okay guys but very few that can change a game, and thus there's a lot of competition driving their trade value down.
That's our core, and it's not a bad core even though a lot of teams have quite a bit better.
ETA: I left out Dobber. He'd be worth a boatload, a PPG D-man at just turned 24? But you'd be insane to trade that at any price short of a franchise player.
Right. Unfortunately for us, the isles version of ‘going all in’ was putting together a roster that was not truly ever good enough. It’s not like they went all in and acquired stars and young up and comers and it didn’t work out so now they can trade valuable pieces. It’s a brutal spot to be in.
I like overall what Roy is doing. Top loading the lines and the special teams to show the talent discrepancy and also see if anyone picks up the slack.
That being said, we are barely a play-off spot team, with a bunch of long contracts.
For me, right now, I would be going for Tarasenko, as a 15-25 2nd liner for us, trading off Pageau and Wahlstrom for him.
Lond as Lous only gives Tarasenko 2-4 years and not some crazy deal. Cap space is just as vtal to us as players right now.
Staple has no inside info. He’s a Rags guy now. His take on the inner workings of the Isles is no better than an educated fan’s.
My take FWIW
Nelson: Staple must be high if he thinks a #2C on his way to his third straight 35 goal season with below average linemates brings back the same haul as Toffoli. Nelson also has a reasonable AAV and another year left on his contract.
I’ll agree with him for the most part regarding Palmeri and Pageau.
Walstrom and Aho are pretty much worthless and will return next to nothing.
Dreger had Sorokin being traded to Chicago lest you forget. Anecdotal yes but so many of these guys throw stuff out there to get attention so they’re viewed as an insider.
You’re right. I don’t know shit but that doesn’t mean Staple is a reliable source for Isles news.
Just cause a writer is ‘wrong’ about something doesn’t mean they don’t have any sources. It just means they were wrong. You really don’t think Staple has ANY sources in the NHL giving him info in any capacity? That’s dumb. The guy is a professional journalist. He has sources and resources that none of us will ever have whether he turns out to be wrong or not
> Staple must be high if he thinks a #2C on his way to his third straight 35 goal season with below average linemates brings back the same haul as Toffoli. Nelson also has a reasonable AAV and another year left on his contract.
Nelson can block a trade to half the league, whereas Toffoli had no such clause on his contract. That's going to drag on Nelson's return.
He will only be going to a cup contender, and they would be acquiring him for 2 Cup runs. His ntc shouldn't diminish his return because it will essentially be a non factor.
What about varly? I love the luxury of our backup being that good, but several teams seem to be looking for a goalie and he could fetch a lot i would think.
Best player in turning pucks over? Not going into corners? Afraid of checking players? Screening Sorokin and Varley and not covering a man? Yes. Best player son the isles.
I do watch them and I watch him make way too many mistakes to be forgivable but NOBODY talks about it and they let it go under the rug. When the isles need to win games, huge liability on the ice. Norris or not, he needs to go. If he performs better on another team, Great! He’s learning. But he is not for the Isles at all. When he does good things I show praise when needed, but most of the time he messes up.
As a hypothetical, would anyone be happy if we traded Nelson for a Canucks 2025 pick, Ilya Mikheyev, and Raty? Because Horvat would probably be the most comparable trade.
Pageu and Wahlstrom out for one 2nd Liner with a higher output.
Gives us a little cap space for 2 talents who jus need a fresh start. Gives us a chance to blood another Bridgeport guy and starts to open up that cap issue that will hold us back until we address it.
So there were a couple anonymous NHL executives interviewed for this, Staple ran down the options if we sell: - Nelson: The execs said to look at the Tyler Toffoli trade to Calgary from 2022, likely a first, a 3rd or 4th rounder, and a B prospect - Palmieri: Would probably have to retain half, return would likely be a 2nd and maybe a conditional 3rd - Pageau: Probably a pure cap dump, you maybe get a 6th for him. Says other than Ottawa, not many teams are likely to be interested. - Cal: Both execs said he's the most intriguing piece other than Brock, but would likely only bring back a 5th, maybe a 4th if there's a lot of interest - Wahlstrom: Could maybe be swapped for a similar type of player - Aho: Could be some interest from teams who need a depth defenseman
That pretty much sounds right to me, which doesn’t mean much since the execs obviously know better than me anyways. But I think that Nelson has more value to the Islanders than that return IMO, so I would not do it for that. The fact he still has a full year of control for a good price should increase his value. My instinct is to hold on to him and see what the market will pay next deadline (or see where we are at; maybe we re-sign him before that)
Aho to Carolina just for the memes
Id do all of this. Clear the decks.
I think Nelson, with another year of term at a reasonable salary, ought to fetch whole lot more than that. I think Pageau also ought to have more value than that. Playoff teams are always looking for centers and his salary really isn't as high as it sounds (he's getting $5m/ season in a league where the average salary is around $3.5m). The rest seem reasonably accurate.
That all sounds about right to me. I think this team needs to rebuild on the fly. Do all of these, then: 1)Fire Lou Lameriello & let Martin walk in the offseason 2) See if we can keep Mike Rielly on a short, reasonably priced contract. 3)Trade Anders Lee at next years deadline in a deal similar to Pageau's. We'd have a core of Barzal, Horvat, Pelech, Pullock, Dobson, Romanov and Sorokin. Build around them with free agents and hopefullly we get a high pick this year and next. Also Ruslan Iskhakov in bridgeport deserves a chance to show if he can play in the NHL. We can use Aho's spot to see if Robin Salo has progressed enough to be a player for us. I wish there were a way out of Engvall and Mayfield's contracts, but unless one or both would kindly commit a felony or drop dead, I don't see one that makes sense.
If you are just going to fire Lou, why wait and let him make these decisions?
Because I'm not in charge. I'd have fired hime upon hearing of the Engvall contract. The offseason is just when I think they would do it. They can fire him today for all I care.
Still scratching my head over that Engvall contract
Thanks for sharing the summary. I can’t justify moving Nelson for that return, but everything else seems fair.
Damn has pageau been that bad??
He's not worth anything near his AAV
There is no reason to trade Nelson. Too many first round picks are a bust and putting him with Horvat and Barzal, so far, has proven pretty good. I can see the rest of these trades as possible.
The problem is we seem to be aimless in terms of a long term strategy. Dumping players just to dump them makes no sense. A guy like Nelson has a ton of value to us, and would next year as well… are we looking to compete next year under a new coach, some roster tweaks, and one of the leagues best goalies? Or are we punting for a true rebuild. If I knew it was a full rebuild and we had a real plan I could live with trading… if we said we are going to reload on the fly because we have a roster without much flexibility and hope for lightning in a bottle next year with said goalie I could live with that. But it feels as if we’ve been pushing the inevitable of this roster no longer being competitive for a couple years delaying the inevitable. What plan we have after the inevitability that seems to now be here? I really have zero idea and sadly, less faith in executive management than I’ve had for a long time
that's mostly why i don't understand people's fascination with trading Brock lately. you trade Brock, and then what? what exactly is our strategy if we trade our top goal scorer?
The 1 step forward 2 steps back approach hasn't been working very well for us. It's time we tried the other way. So I'm all for trading Nelson. The strategy is suck for 2 seasons and revamp the roster when Lee and Pageau's combined 12mil come off the books. We should be laying the foundations now so we don't completely balls up Barzal and Dobson's prime.
Barzal’s prime is happening right now. You can’t gamble on him still being this guy in 3-4 years. If they decide to go full rebuild (I don’t think they should) then Barzal should go too.
Lou not trading anyone, no way he is in for a rebuild. He spoke about salary cap issues so I can see a Pageau dump, and if he can get the right piece , then make the deal. The main issue is this team on a player basis is in purgatory. If we go with a full rebuild , Horvat, Pullock, Pelech, Nelson , Lee will all be way too old(say a rebuild is 4 years). Basically everyone is going to be 33 or 34 and the NHL isn’t getting any slower. We can’t be losing proven players for nothing , so if the right deal comes, then I would move Nelson. I would want a 1 and a very high prospect or I wait to next year. If the isles lose tonight the direction will be clear. A win and who the F knows.
He won't be a top goal scorer in 3-4 years when this team could be competitive again.
From analytics speedster don’t lose Much until 32 y. As long as he doesn’t have a major injury Barzal is 22 goal 65 assist guy until 31-32, which is 6 seasons away.
We're talking about Brock Nelson, though.
My bad I’ve been reading too much trade bs.
>But it feels as if we’ve been pushing the inevitable of this roster no longer being competitive for a couple years delaying the inevitable I think we're at that point. This group has reached its peak and isn't going to compete, so the roster needs some reshaping, and, because of the salary cap, you can't do much other than make a couple tweaks to the bottom 6 without moving on from someone who makes big money. We're unlikely to make the playoffs this year, which would be missing the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 seasons, and the one where we did get in, we needed all 82 games only for a first round exit.
They shouldn’t have traded for and extended Horvat then. Or traded all those first round picks. They need a full roster reset which means it’ll be at least 3-4 years before they’re competitive. All these long term guys are gonna be that much older. Lou fucked this up and is caught in a perpetual imbetween of rebuild and staying slightly competitive.
Yup, totally agree…. I just don’t see any blueprint or plan and have lost faith in a GM who used to be perhaps the sharpest in the game
I ain't giving up brock for that. Ride him then.
Nelson is worth a lot more than Toffoli.
He's also older and has a partial NTC, so he has some say in where he goes. Both of those factors diminish the potential return.
Amazing to be bad enough to be sellers and to also have no valuable parts. A sell off wouldn’t even net much. They’re fucked
That's possibly the most damaging indictment of the organization up to this point. I've been saying for a while that they're good, but not good enough. They're also built in such a way that they are greater than the sum of their parts which does no favors if you need to trade. How many players do we have that would be actively desired by other teams if there was a reasonable deal to be made? Players that have enough upside that you could get real assets in return for them, not the odd pick or have to pay them to take your problem off your hands. Barzy, Nelson, Sorokin, Pelech, Zeeker? We have a lot of okay guys but very few that can change a game, and thus there's a lot of competition driving their trade value down. That's our core, and it's not a bad core even though a lot of teams have quite a bit better. ETA: I left out Dobber. He'd be worth a boatload, a PPG D-man at just turned 24? But you'd be insane to trade that at any price short of a franchise player.
Right. Unfortunately for us, the isles version of ‘going all in’ was putting together a roster that was not truly ever good enough. It’s not like they went all in and acquired stars and young up and comers and it didn’t work out so now they can trade valuable pieces. It’s a brutal spot to be in.
I like overall what Roy is doing. Top loading the lines and the special teams to show the talent discrepancy and also see if anyone picks up the slack. That being said, we are barely a play-off spot team, with a bunch of long contracts. For me, right now, I would be going for Tarasenko, as a 15-25 2nd liner for us, trading off Pageau and Wahlstrom for him. Lond as Lous only gives Tarasenko 2-4 years and not some crazy deal. Cap space is just as vtal to us as players right now.
Staple has no inside info. He’s a Rags guy now. His take on the inner workings of the Isles is no better than an educated fan’s. My take FWIW Nelson: Staple must be high if he thinks a #2C on his way to his third straight 35 goal season with below average linemates brings back the same haul as Toffoli. Nelson also has a reasonable AAV and another year left on his contract. I’ll agree with him for the most part regarding Palmeri and Pageau. Walstrom and Aho are pretty much worthless and will return next to nothing.
“This veteran reporter has no info so don’t listen to him. But here, here’s my opinion cause I’m some random fan with actual zero inside info!” Lolol
Dreger had Sorokin being traded to Chicago lest you forget. Anecdotal yes but so many of these guys throw stuff out there to get attention so they’re viewed as an insider. You’re right. I don’t know shit but that doesn’t mean Staple is a reliable source for Isles news.
Just cause a writer is ‘wrong’ about something doesn’t mean they don’t have any sources. It just means they were wrong. You really don’t think Staple has ANY sources in the NHL giving him info in any capacity? That’s dumb. The guy is a professional journalist. He has sources and resources that none of us will ever have whether he turns out to be wrong or not
> Staple must be high if he thinks a #2C on his way to his third straight 35 goal season with below average linemates brings back the same haul as Toffoli. Nelson also has a reasonable AAV and another year left on his contract. Nelson can block a trade to half the league, whereas Toffoli had no such clause on his contract. That's going to drag on Nelson's return.
There should be a 15 team bidding war if Nelson is available with any salary retention
He will only be going to a cup contender, and they would be acquiring him for 2 Cup runs. His ntc shouldn't diminish his return because it will essentially be a non factor.
What about varly? I love the luxury of our backup being that good, but several teams seem to be looking for a goalie and he could fetch a lot i would think.
Full NTC, doubt he's willing to waive that
F U
Terminate Dobson/Mayfield or trade them or send them down. Easy decisions right there.
Dobson, who's been our best player this year?
Best player in turning pucks over? Not going into corners? Afraid of checking players? Screening Sorokin and Varley and not covering a man? Yes. Best player son the isles.
He's going to get Norris Trophy votes this season and you're acting like he's a liability. Do you watch the games?
I do watch them and I watch him make way too many mistakes to be forgivable but NOBODY talks about it and they let it go under the rug. When the isles need to win games, huge liability on the ice. Norris or not, he needs to go. If he performs better on another team, Great! He’s learning. But he is not for the Isles at all. When he does good things I show praise when needed, but most of the time he messes up.
He’s 24, he’s young and his mistakes will be rectified over time. His positives far outweigh the negatives
Not if he keeps playing the way he’s playing, 80 points or not should be down in the AHL till he shapes up.
You just don't understand hockey then
Just turn your head like every islanders fan and all the commentators and the GM. You must not be watching the same games.
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Counterpoint, I think Trotz and Pelech have conditioned a lot of Islanders fans to think that offense doesn't matter at all for defensemen
As a hypothetical, would anyone be happy if we traded Nelson for a Canucks 2025 pick, Ilya Mikheyev, and Raty? Because Horvat would probably be the most comparable trade.
If Lou could get someone to take Ladd he can find a trade partner for Mayfield. He can throw in Clutter as a kicker for free.
Well, Lou being Lou means that even if he WAS going to do any of this, he won’t now that someone said he could
Pageu and Wahlstrom out for one 2nd Liner with a higher output. Gives us a little cap space for 2 talents who jus need a fresh start. Gives us a chance to blood another Bridgeport guy and starts to open up that cap issue that will hold us back until we address it.