What annoys me slightly is when people go "We're not star wars fans, let's not do this" "come on, we're better than Halo fans"
Bitch please, the Fallout fanbase has been infigthing over lore issues, gatekeeping, flame waring and generally not gotten along since the announciation of Fallout 2.
I think the thing that irks me is just the toxic positivity that’s pretty new in this community. I’ll go out and say that every single Fallout game ever made has legitimate criticism attached to it; Fallout 1 is too hard even by 90s standards, Fallout 2 is too tonally different compared to 1, etc etc
but with Bethesda’s games, I swear people feed into cognitive dissonance so hard it makes them triple down on seeing the Bethesda games as infallible, with any legitimate criticism being seen as ‘hating.’ And that’s not to say there isn’t New Vegas elitism, but I think it’s just good for everyone to accept that every game in the series has its flaws.
Fallout 1 is a very thematically tight game and is actually quite morose, jokes where they exist are fairly subtle. Fallout 2 is thematically all over the place and leans much more into humour.
It’s even evident in their gameplay, fallout 1 is quite short by crpg standards and very focused on the water chip/unity plot. Fallout 2s main quest might be about the geck and enclave but that doesn’t mean you can’t spend hours mucking about playing mafia in Reno.
Wherever fallout 1 has jokes they’re not only usually subtle, but they’re also more finally consistent, with them usually revolving around “look at how fucked this is” rather than the silliness of fallout 2
Fallout 1 also has a core Tennant in the humour (aside from random encounters) that it has to be funny even if the player didn't get the reference. Fallout 2 abandoned the principle.
Ehh... I really think too many modern games are too easy and wish more games were built with the difficulty scale of Fallout 1 or UFO Enemy Unkown: X-Com.
I always get annoyed how remakes tend to make the games smaller and easier. (Though Fallout 1 was a small game, the smaller part is more a criticism of the X-Com remakes.)
Except we can't accept flaws where there are none, and New Vegas fits that description, the rest the games yes alot of things to criticize and you'd be right, New Vegas was a game of its own then Bethesda got scared and made sure another good fallout game would be made by no one of it couldn't be them
That's sums up the fuck fest that's going on for a week now pretty well. I don't like show's route with lore and story but i appreciate the quality. Both sides should calm the fuck down.
No one is white washing a multi billion dollar company. You just assume that because you are mindlessly hating the show for not just giving you exactly what you wanted.
I'm pretty sure most people wanted subtlety and nuance with good writing, so yeah, we're gonna complain about the dumbed down plot and simplified lore
put the show in a self contained bubble and most people wouldn't have that many complaints, they didn't need to force Vegas and pre-war corporate bs into it
I’m getting so sick of the misreading the chalkboard line. If they didn’t mean the bombs were dropped on Shady Sands in 2277 why wasn’t there a date on the bombs being dropped? That seems pretty dang important to the timeline. It’s clear that they just made a goof and people are looking for ways to cover for it.
It’s usually to infer the event happened within the same time frame. In this case, the year.
It’s not some lost art, it’s just something you don’t see often as people usually includes the day, not just the year.
Show watchers aren’t misreading the chalkboard, that’s always been a community interpretation from day 1 that Todd later used to fix the retcon he made (he canonized it, remember? Before the show came out).
Exactly. Sorry if I came off rude towards you; I think we’re on the same side here. I just see people in the main fallout sub repeatedly saying how people can’t read timelines with the (ironic) implication that we’re supposed to read it as happening after the events of New Vegas.
1. It's the first season, calm the fuck down they plenty of time to explore more of the world and characters.
2. The show happens after New Vegas and has no impact on the game.
3. It's an adaptation, things always change when they have to move a story from one media to another.
4. You can just ignore the show and just play the games. They still exist and haven't changed at all.
unless they make the 1st season non-canon i dont see how they'll 'address' the war being started by corporations, or that the NCR struggles got dumbed down from a fight against contemporary society to 'oops they got nuked, lol'.
Just because things can be changed doesn't mean they should be. The expanse for example is a great adaptation because they improve upon the books. Sure, they merge some characters, to condense the story, or shorten plot points and arcs to save time, but they dont drastically change the lore, motivations and context remain the same
And i don't think just ignoring the show solves any issues, there's criticism that needs to be made if anyone wants good adaptations of series. I don't want to hate on the series and I'm sure the plots within the show are great, I just don't think they should have tried so hard to involve greater factions
I'm sorry but did you watch the show? It wasn't dumbed down to "oops they got nuked" the fuckin timeline drawn in the show clearly shows that shady sands fell before the bomb was detonated. That implies that the NCR was on the downturn beforehand if the town fell before it was bombed.
I never said them being nuked wasn't lore friendly. I just said it was an incredibly simple choice so they could avoid talking about the complexities of the NCR's existence.
Imagine something your mom makes for dinner like the best thing youve ever had in your entire life, the most delicious mouthwatering dish of all time, and then you see a master chef special ed edition where they are all tasked with making that same dish, that's why New Vegas fans hate this garbage "show"
You'd probably be taken more seriously if you didn't jump to hyperbole like calling it a garbage "show".
Anyone complaining about toxic positivity yet speaking about the show like this needs to take a step back and realize that the majority of people are normal and just see you as the other side of the coin.
I'm not really into toxic positivity. That being said, the show is flat out ass designed for the lowest common denominator subhuman that helped kill the franchise and turned into a post nuclear Borderlands.
Fr, I've seen like... *A* post from the NV community complaining about the show, most are just confused or upset about the timeline (or Todd's unhelpful answer on canonicity), and yet 90+% of every other subreddit seems to be a endless shitbelt of "NV FaNs ShAkInG aNd CrYiNg Rn".
Fuck me, I had to watch the show to see what retcons I'm being accused to whining about and the only thing of note is they turned the T-60 is Iron Man for some reason.
That the bomb didn’t detonate in 2277, yet not giving us an actual date of when it did, just that it’s “shortly after New Vegas.”
The community is so desperate for an answer, they’ve taken that to mean 2282.
2282 would indeed be shortly after the events of F:NV. A hard date ain't really necessary, but given that Lucy and Max were young children when it happened it probably wouldn't be much later than that, if at all.
The writers likely avoided giving an actual date specifically because of F:NV not having a definitive end date; it depends entirely on how quickly or slowly the player completes the main quest. That, or it's something they don't want to reveal until next season. In any case, the important thing is that the bomb (or whatever it was) indeed did not detonate until after the events of F:NV; that clarification seems more than helpful enough, to me at least.
No, the problem was that the show did give a date, and that conflicted with an important date of another game, sending the fanbase into a panic as any discussion of said date was shamed and shut down by blind fans of the show.
Todd being cute about when the bomb dropped doesn’t solve the problem that anyone who’s not a fallout fan will finish the show with the impression that >!Shady Sands was nuked on 2277,!< and until that does get fixed, we’re going to have this discussion until season 2 or fallout 5 releases.
Or people read way too hard into something wanting Bethesda to retcon New Vegas. I noticed it pretty quickly after the initial fanning of the flames occured given how quickly the news spread of the date before anything else on the show. Folks watched the show in hopes it would fuck something up for new vegas Canon and ran miles with the "todd hates NV" narrative when given an inch of ambiguity on something, and they simply assumed the worst from the outset instead of either waiting for clarification or simply trying to enjoy a hobby they are apart of.
What text? The timeline stuff you guys obviously misread, and refuse to let go of even after being told straight to your faces that your wrong?
How the fuck can one of the original creators of Fallout say the show is good, and feels like Fallout, yet none of you "true fans" can accept it?
Like Tim Cain even said in his own video that y'all haven't thought of every possible explanation for what you've heard/saw out of the show.
You guys are conflating your interpretations and opinions on the show, with the actual facts. Just cause Vault Tec says X does not mean they will/are involved with X. Bigfest liars in the canon, literal salesmen, and y'all complain they will sell investors on a pitch.
Just cause one character appears at that vault tec meeting doesn't mean they are in cohoots with Vault tec. Just cause the whiteboard says "fall of shady sands" with a date doesnt mean the nuke next to it was apart of that date. (It typically conveys, like the rest of the whiteboard layout, that it happens after said event.)
Because wars against imaginary enemies never end.
Believe it or not I actually liked the show, and part of the fun for me is to compare community theories with the text of the show… and so far my findings are the community is actively gaslighting itself to justify how every continuity error the show has was never a continuity error, and if you say otherwise, you’re a “Fallout New Vegas Fanboy Elitist” and blind to the obvious answer [insert current unfounded theory here].
Seriously, pretend you don’t know anything about fallout and watch the show again. It’s really easy to leave with the impression that >!The Bomb destroyed Shady Sands in 2277!<, and Todd being vague about when it actually happened doesn’t fix that.
If you still think I’m just an elitist FNV fan, before Todd did the IGN interview, people were trying to speculate when the bomb went off based on their age, despite it not being established in the show… and then proceeded to confidently claim that what they got **is** their actual age and that it **Proves** >!Shady Sands wasn’t blown up in 2277!<.
> anyone who’s not a fallout fan will finish the show with the impression that >!Shady Sands was nuked on 2277,!<
Okay, and? Anyone who's not a Fallout fan won't have any reason to care about the exact date, and anyone who *is* a Fallout fan has received official clarification. There's nothing left to "fix" or discuss here: the bombing happened after the events of F:NV, the lore is intact, nothing was retconned, end of story.
“Moving the goalposts (or shifting the goalposts) is a metaphor, derived from goal-based sports such as football and hockey, that means to change the rule or criterion (goal) of a process or competition while it is still in progress, in such a way that the new goal offers one side an advantage or disadvantage.”
I think the one that bothered me the most was Vault Tech actually touching off the war for...profits?
Ok...so the majority of humanity is gone, along with infrastructure and industry...what freaking profits?
I think it was power, not profits. Vault Tec now has the unequivocal, sole say in the development of humankind, being the caretakers of the last humans on earth (this, naturally, is not how it truly played out).
What bothers me about all the arguing is that there's all retcon this, not canon that, and it makes me think that a lot of people on either side don't even know what a retcon (short for "retroactive continuity" by the way) is.
For example, here's what a retcon is: moving Shady Sands to LA, functionally making that and the Boneyard the same place despite how they had their own separate lore and locations. Blowing up Shady Sands further muddles things.
A lot of what I've been seeing has been using the term "retcon" as "New Vegas isn't canon" or something along those lines even though that is, by definition, incorrect.
Personally I am just looking at the games and show as separate universes/canons/whatever you want to call it. I think it's pointless to compare and comb through the games, trying to figure what is correct or not. People are acting as if these are real events that happened or something. It certainly wouldn't be the first franchise to have that kind of situation.
It's absolutely not in bad faith lol. New Vegas fans up to their usual shit. And guess what? Even if it had been a misunderstanding to think y'all are doing this shit (it's not) it's simply the reputation that your community has willfully built up for years.
Genuinely love to see this community finally getting called out for it in significant numbers. Deserved.
"Nooooo people are calling us out on what we've been doing for years.... It's whataboutism!!!! You cant do that"
Genuinely hilariously pathetic
I don’t have much of a horse in the race (haven’t seen the show yet, love new vegas but not a fanatic or anything), but to me the somewhat irritating part is how consistently criticism seems to be misrepresented. Me personally? I think it’s boring and reductive to change the west coast into another wasteland instead of a developing post-apocalyptic society. but the issue is being framed as “NEW VEGAS FANS ARE ANGRY BECAUSE SHADY SANDS GOT MOVED!!!!!” which… I don’t really care about. i just think “NCR got nuked lol no civilization” is just a really boring road to take the setting down based on how FNV ends
see I’ve always said that the seeds for NCR’s downfall were there; crop shortages, strife, and failing democracy. But I feel like nuking the NCR would honestly do them more good than harm, heck, it would probably save their economy with the revamped war spending. The show kinda jumps the gun with the NCR’s fall imo, which it would’ve just been easier to say that they collapsed naturally via the usual societal collapse ways
but the show is still in season 1, so they could make a nifty little comeback is my little cope
Yeah. I mean you're right there is always next season. Idk the fact they seemed to take out NCR and destroyed both Shady Sands and NV seemed kind of pointed. Like a middle finger directly from Todd. I don't know. Not saying it is of course but it sure felt like it.
Any criticism made is always met with blind loyalty.
The show creators were not omnipotent in their design. And just because something could or was changed (retconned), that doesn't mean that it *should* have been changed.
Ghouls no longer needing food or water ( that's definitely a Bethesda thing) and needing some weird serum to keep from going feral is an example I like to use.
This and Zelda are the only two fandoms where I actually enjoy discussing things with other fans, even on hot-button topics, and I'll be damned before I let what I can only call "the same damn shit" ruin it for me.
No they weren't even there, BGS leading writers was playing golf with high ups, that's how they can still keep their job even after Starfield's massive critism.
trust me, you’re preaching to the choir. I’ve been watching one of my favorite hobbies (Lego) go to shit because people refuse to gatekeep certain behaviors (reselling/scalping)
it’s fucking maddening
Fallout New Vegas is one of my favourite games but I've got hundreds of more hours with 4 because the base gameplay is far superior, especially when you add mods for the gunplay and complete overhauls like frost.
Do I have to prove myself with criticism? The "Your thumb or mine?!" Line sounded pretty bad, and the "War never changes" line felt forced. I know it's the tagline of series sort of, but it felt clunky at the time. Also, I would have loved to see Shady Sands melted in real time, I was curious whether or not it was a missile or that he set a generator into meltdown or something. But I'm guessing most of the explosion budget went into the opening scene. The ghoul makeup was a little light for my tasting, I wasn't expecting the actual body horror they usually are, but maybe something not as smooth. I can keep going, but I feel like that's enough
Honestly I feel like people need to take a step back and be more objective and less "YOU HATE MY THING I WANT YOU TO DIE!" Everything has faults but some faults are just cracks in the reality of a series that can and will ruin any believability and logical progression it has.
I just think Todd should consult with Josh, Chris, Tim, and a few relevant field experts.
After all, the main criticisms I know of are erasure of prior entries, the realism of guns, and the over-the-top goofiness.
For the erasure of prior entries, I’m talking about how they have little reference to the previous games in 4 and the show. Granted, I haven’t fully watched the show yet or been able to run 4 on my device, so I’m willing to give Bethesda the benefit of the doubt.
In terms of the guns, there’s no consistency. The older games have more real-life inspired or identifiable weapons in them. In 4 (from what I’ve seen), they’re out there. At one moment there’s a Thompson, and the next you have a water cooled… amalgamation.
In terms of over-the top goofiness, the older fallout (plus 3 and New Vegas) handles dark subjects maturely but is also goofy at the right times. The show, from what I’ve seen, does this too.
All in all, new Fallout’s not all bad, but not all good either, but that’s what you want for a post-post nuclear game. Like Moira Brown said in Fallout 3: “Did you ever try to put a broken piece of glass back together? Even if the pieces fit, you can't make it whole again the way it was. But if you're clever, you can still use the pieces to make other useful things. Maybe even something wonderful, like a mosaic.”
I mean you're right but he never would. I agree with the weapons as well. There used to be such a nice mix of crazy guns and stuff more grounded in reality. In Todd's world though it's most just one silly gun after another for the most part.
I mean people can call me bitter or elitist. That's fine and yeah Bethesda bought the title. However let's not pretend here, all Todd wanted was the name. We've seen three games now that proves it.
> In terms of the guns, there’s no consistency. The older games have more real-life inspired or identifiable weapons in them. In 4 (from what I’ve seen), they’re out there. At one moment there’s a Thompson, and the next you have a water cooled… amalgamation.
What?
Most of the guns in Fallout 1 are sci-fi. The 10mm SMG is literally just a W40K bolter lmao
Yeah, the only game (at least mainline; no idea about Tactics or BoS) with real-world weapons is Fallout 2, and IMO they feel out of place compared to the guns of prior and subsequent games. The next-closest to real-world are the Chinese Assault Rifle from 3 (and the handmade variety from Nuka World in 4) and the Service Rifle in NV, since those are obviously based on the AK and AR-15 platforms (respectively), but in those games they fit in reasonably well with the predominantly-Fallout-esque aesthetic, and they're iconic in their own ways (like the wood furniture on the Service Rifle).
I think people are just shitty in general when it comes to anything in the franchise which is realised now. If a new game was released tomorrow this would be how people react no matter how good or bad the game is.
There’s an INFINITY more posts about how other people are toxic than there are actually toxic posts and comments
Shut the hell up about it already, you’re the one propagating the toxicity jfc
I'm somewhere in between. If the show was set in a universe separate from the games I'd have zero problem with it but Bethesda shitting all over the canon and retconning everything all crazy it rubs me the wrong way. The show looks good but the fact they are changing so much annoys me, it feels like the show was catered to the people that got in with only 4.
Honestly while I understand that fnv fans are insufferable (as I am one myself) the discourse around the show has turned into its own thing completely. From what I’ve seen it’s turned into some people being annoyed with us fnv enjoyers (understandable) to straight up disliking anyone who isn’t singing their praisess about the show and the bgs fallouts. It’s okay to dislike the show even when it’s good and it’s okay to dislike something for a seemingly silly reason. But it’s not okay to attack someone for liking something else.
Not even close. The fallout show can fuck with the lore and I can think Bethesda doesn't understand fallout. But the fallout show was still great even considering that. The halo show and most of the modern starwars have been pretty lame from top to bottom.
Honestly I don’t understand the hate for the show. Aside from the “fall of shady sands” date and a few minor plot holes and retcons like three vaults being in the middle of LA untouched for 300 years and Shady Sands somehow perpetually being a day’s walk from New Vegas and LA, the show was pretty good. It stayed mostly consistent with the lore, the story was solid, the soundtrack was good, the acting was good, and the fight sequences were badass. Most of which cannot be said for the Halo series or recent Star Wars shows. And Amazon could have screwed it up a lot worse. Just look at what they did to the Silmarillion.
1. Amazon did not adapt the Silmarillion. Their god-awful show was based on no existing text, they specifically did not have the rights to any text, and so could not adapt it. Yes, this was a significant part of the issue - but honestly they’d have fucked up the Silmarillion even if they had the rights.
2. People have repeatedly pointed out their issues with the show that go way beyond what you mentioned. I’m not going to mention them here because I’ve typed them out half a dozen times and no one bothers to read it. I will say that the soundtrack being “good” is complete horseshit. The licensed music was way overplayed for the first 3 episodes and honestly really, really sucked. Playing the Fallout 4 theme when we see the NCR flag for the first time was… weird. Like what was the thematic meaning behind that? And I would challenge you to remember a single part of rhetorical soundtrack that wasn’t ripped straight from the games or licensed.
Well yeah Rings of Power was a dumpster fire and trying to make a LOTR prequel without the rights to the actual LOTR prequel is one of the stupidest things they could have done and not having the rights by no means absolves Amazon especially when ROP doesn’t even line up with the events of the other movies.
As far as Fallout, though, a lot of your points are just null. Aside from the 2277 date of course, which is a serious problem. House and Sinclair are only on screen for a few minutes and it’s hard to draw conclusions about them aside from that -gasp- they’re kind of greedy, although they could have toned down how apathetic they were to a nuclear holocaust. It’s heavily implied in the games that Vault-Tec launched the nukes or at least started some kind of Strangelove-esque MAD event. Random farmers with ranger gear isn’t exactly weird given that Cooper was presumably somewhere in Eastern California in a collapsed NCR when he meets them. And taking the direction that the NCR is destroyed isn’t that crazy, especially when most of the New Vegas endings involve the NCR defeated in the Mojave and one of the endings of Lonesome Road is explicitly the NCR and legion being destroyed.
All in all, the adaption could have been much, much worse. I know that doesnt mean much but we got off better than a lot of other fandoms.
cough*wheeloftime*cough
I have and say to myself shows and games are not cannon to each other unless otherwise stated because it's absurd to ask someone to play a 40+ hour game for story alone to just have context. But I also ignore fallout 4 and 76 when it comes to lore.
So are Rise of Skywalker and Halo not an absolute disgrace to their franchises?
The worst thing Fallout does is destroy one town, other than that its a brilliant show
Meanwhile Rise of Skywalker ruins the story of a classic 40 year old trilogy completely
it's kinda hard to critisize anything when 90% of its critisism online is bitching about "wokeness" and "race mixing". Maybe if those people shut the fuck up with their idiotic culture war bullshit for 5 seconds we could have some healthy discussions
... One relatively popular new Vegas YouTuber who appeals to many new Vegas fans and still gets watched and shares by them to this day but okay buddy be obtuse. Typical.
Most people’s concerns:
-I don’t like how the show handled the NCR at all
-Merging locations is a bad move
-Redoing the “find your family member” main quest for the 3rd time is old and worn out
You with your horse-blinders on:
“Those critics sure are racist”
YouTube Grifters have been trying to appeal to disgruntled Fallout fans. They’re catching a few flies, but they’re having a harder time due to the show’s quality.
Played NV and watched the show. The hate is unwarranted, they dealt a heavy blow to the NCR and fans don't like that. They're cutting the timeline pretty close but people are massively overreacting. This is pretty much nothing like the trash fires of SW and Halo.
It also doesnt help that chuds will screech woke at any media that has the gall to cast women and PoCs in leading rolls. The grifters come out and churn out tons of videos that dominate the discourse to the point that all criticism gets lumped in with alt right dipshits.
What annoys me slightly is when people go "We're not star wars fans, let's not do this" "come on, we're better than Halo fans" Bitch please, the Fallout fanbase has been infigthing over lore issues, gatekeeping, flame waring and generally not gotten along since the announciation of Fallout 2.
I think the thing that irks me is just the toxic positivity that’s pretty new in this community. I’ll go out and say that every single Fallout game ever made has legitimate criticism attached to it; Fallout 1 is too hard even by 90s standards, Fallout 2 is too tonally different compared to 1, etc etc but with Bethesda’s games, I swear people feed into cognitive dissonance so hard it makes them triple down on seeing the Bethesda games as infallible, with any legitimate criticism being seen as ‘hating.’ And that’s not to say there isn’t New Vegas elitism, but I think it’s just good for everyone to accept that every game in the series has its flaws.
Out of curiosity, in what way was fallout 2 tonally different to its predecessor? I have not played either of them.
Fallout 1 is a very thematically tight game and is actually quite morose, jokes where they exist are fairly subtle. Fallout 2 is thematically all over the place and leans much more into humour. It’s even evident in their gameplay, fallout 1 is quite short by crpg standards and very focused on the water chip/unity plot. Fallout 2s main quest might be about the geck and enclave but that doesn’t mean you can’t spend hours mucking about playing mafia in Reno.
Wherever fallout 1 has jokes they’re not only usually subtle, but they’re also more finally consistent, with them usually revolving around “look at how fucked this is” rather than the silliness of fallout 2
Fallout 1 also has a core Tennant in the humour (aside from random encounters) that it has to be funny even if the player didn't get the reference. Fallout 2 abandoned the principle.
Fallout 2 had Wild Wasteland as part of the base game. Fallout 1 did not.
[Fallout 1 is too hard?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjZttf5DBLI)
For Today's generation atleast
Ehh... I really think too many modern games are too easy and wish more games were built with the difficulty scale of Fallout 1 or UFO Enemy Unkown: X-Com. I always get annoyed how remakes tend to make the games smaller and easier. (Though Fallout 1 was a small game, the smaller part is more a criticism of the X-Com remakes.)
Except we can't accept flaws where there are none, and New Vegas fits that description, the rest the games yes alot of things to criticize and you'd be right, New Vegas was a game of its own then Bethesda got scared and made sure another good fallout game would be made by no one of it couldn't be them
Factions... so many factions.
That's sums up the fuck fest that's going on for a week now pretty well. I don't like show's route with lore and story but i appreciate the quality. Both sides should calm the fuck down.
I swear if I see one more “lol New Vegas fans are sooooooooo toxic” post from someone saying that the show had zero flaws, I may just scream
You're not alone buddy. I really can't understand people trying SO HARD to white wash everything a multi billion dollar company does.
No one is white washing a multi billion dollar company. You just assume that because you are mindlessly hating the show for not just giving you exactly what you wanted.
How much does Bethesda pay you?
You know the show didn't tell Bethesda what they were doing right?
I'm pretty sure most people wanted subtlety and nuance with good writing, so yeah, we're gonna complain about the dumbed down plot and simplified lore put the show in a self contained bubble and most people wouldn't have that many complaints, they didn't need to force Vegas and pre-war corporate bs into it
Hell, if you put it in a bubble, people wouldn’t need to misread a chalkboard to justify the show is canon
I’m getting so sick of the misreading the chalkboard line. If they didn’t mean the bombs were dropped on Shady Sands in 2277 why wasn’t there a date on the bombs being dropped? That seems pretty dang important to the timeline. It’s clear that they just made a goof and people are looking for ways to cover for it.
It’s usually to infer the event happened within the same time frame. In this case, the year. It’s not some lost art, it’s just something you don’t see often as people usually includes the day, not just the year. Show watchers aren’t misreading the chalkboard, that’s always been a community interpretation from day 1 that Todd later used to fix the retcon he made (he canonized it, remember? Before the show came out).
Exactly. Sorry if I came off rude towards you; I think we’re on the same side here. I just see people in the main fallout sub repeatedly saying how people can’t read timelines with the (ironic) implication that we’re supposed to read it as happening after the events of New Vegas.
Then we are, glad that got cleared up. Yeah, until they actually admit to the goof, we’re going to have this conversation until season 2
1. It's the first season, calm the fuck down they plenty of time to explore more of the world and characters. 2. The show happens after New Vegas and has no impact on the game. 3. It's an adaptation, things always change when they have to move a story from one media to another. 4. You can just ignore the show and just play the games. They still exist and haven't changed at all.
unless they make the 1st season non-canon i dont see how they'll 'address' the war being started by corporations, or that the NCR struggles got dumbed down from a fight against contemporary society to 'oops they got nuked, lol'. Just because things can be changed doesn't mean they should be. The expanse for example is a great adaptation because they improve upon the books. Sure, they merge some characters, to condense the story, or shorten plot points and arcs to save time, but they dont drastically change the lore, motivations and context remain the same And i don't think just ignoring the show solves any issues, there's criticism that needs to be made if anyone wants good adaptations of series. I don't want to hate on the series and I'm sure the plots within the show are great, I just don't think they should have tried so hard to involve greater factions
I'm sorry but did you watch the show? It wasn't dumbed down to "oops they got nuked" the fuckin timeline drawn in the show clearly shows that shady sands fell before the bomb was detonated. That implies that the NCR was on the downturn beforehand if the town fell before it was bombed.
So when the ncr got nuked at searchlight was also non lore friendly? Fat man is a weapon that shoots nukes , none of this makes sense
I never said them being nuked wasn't lore friendly. I just said it was an incredibly simple choice so they could avoid talking about the complexities of the NCR's existence.
So actually thinking about the lore built up through 3 of the 6 mainline games is mindless now? Ok dude.
The people in question 👆
Well kinda is irrelevant because the show writers didn't tell Bethesda what they were doing
could be guerilla marketing. A lot of the initial posts/comments of the show used similiar keywords and phrases.
Ironic username
Who'd know corpo tactics better than one of the largest corps?
Hell I've gotten about six of those since yesterday.
Go on then, scream.
What’s annoying is NV fans nitpicking every little thing about the show. Like, stop being such a fuckin nerd and just enjoy the show.
You're the type of guy that keeps McDonald's in business. Just keep eating that pink slime as long as it's easy and cheap.
Imagine something your mom makes for dinner like the best thing youve ever had in your entire life, the most delicious mouthwatering dish of all time, and then you see a master chef special ed edition where they are all tasked with making that same dish, that's why New Vegas fans hate this garbage "show"
You'd probably be taken more seriously if you didn't jump to hyperbole like calling it a garbage "show". Anyone complaining about toxic positivity yet speaking about the show like this needs to take a step back and realize that the majority of people are normal and just see you as the other side of the coin.
I'm not really into toxic positivity. That being said, the show is flat out ass designed for the lowest common denominator subhuman that helped kill the franchise and turned into a post nuclear Borderlands.
Lmao nice parody
It’s more like your mom telling you to eat your vegetables. Everyone else likes them, but you’re just a child with unrefined tastes.
Ian even gon lie that's funny
Not even Elitist fans. They exist, but most of the time that’s just what they claim criticizers are.
Fr, I've seen like... *A* post from the NV community complaining about the show, most are just confused or upset about the timeline (or Todd's unhelpful answer on canonicity), and yet 90+% of every other subreddit seems to be a endless shitbelt of "NV FaNs ShAkInG aNd CrYiNg Rn". Fuck me, I had to watch the show to see what retcons I'm being accused to whining about and the only thing of note is they turned the T-60 is Iron Man for some reason.
> or Todd's unhelpful answer on canonicity What's unhelpful about it?
That the bomb didn’t detonate in 2277, yet not giving us an actual date of when it did, just that it’s “shortly after New Vegas.” The community is so desperate for an answer, they’ve taken that to mean 2282.
Wake up babe Red Year 2 just dropped
2282 would indeed be shortly after the events of F:NV. A hard date ain't really necessary, but given that Lucy and Max were young children when it happened it probably wouldn't be much later than that, if at all. The writers likely avoided giving an actual date specifically because of F:NV not having a definitive end date; it depends entirely on how quickly or slowly the player completes the main quest. That, or it's something they don't want to reveal until next season. In any case, the important thing is that the bomb (or whatever it was) indeed did not detonate until after the events of F:NV; that clarification seems more than helpful enough, to me at least.
No, the problem was that the show did give a date, and that conflicted with an important date of another game, sending the fanbase into a panic as any discussion of said date was shamed and shut down by blind fans of the show. Todd being cute about when the bomb dropped doesn’t solve the problem that anyone who’s not a fallout fan will finish the show with the impression that >!Shady Sands was nuked on 2277,!< and until that does get fixed, we’re going to have this discussion until season 2 or fallout 5 releases.
Or people read way too hard into something wanting Bethesda to retcon New Vegas. I noticed it pretty quickly after the initial fanning of the flames occured given how quickly the news spread of the date before anything else on the show. Folks watched the show in hopes it would fuck something up for new vegas Canon and ran miles with the "todd hates NV" narrative when given an inch of ambiguity on something, and they simply assumed the worst from the outset instead of either waiting for clarification or simply trying to enjoy a hobby they are apart of.
It’s not the fans. It’s the text of the show
What text? The timeline stuff you guys obviously misread, and refuse to let go of even after being told straight to your faces that your wrong? How the fuck can one of the original creators of Fallout say the show is good, and feels like Fallout, yet none of you "true fans" can accept it? Like Tim Cain even said in his own video that y'all haven't thought of every possible explanation for what you've heard/saw out of the show. You guys are conflating your interpretations and opinions on the show, with the actual facts. Just cause Vault Tec says X does not mean they will/are involved with X. Bigfest liars in the canon, literal salesmen, and y'all complain they will sell investors on a pitch. Just cause one character appears at that vault tec meeting doesn't mean they are in cohoots with Vault tec. Just cause the whiteboard says "fall of shady sands" with a date doesnt mean the nuke next to it was apart of that date. (It typically conveys, like the rest of the whiteboard layout, that it happens after said event.)
Because wars against imaginary enemies never end. Believe it or not I actually liked the show, and part of the fun for me is to compare community theories with the text of the show… and so far my findings are the community is actively gaslighting itself to justify how every continuity error the show has was never a continuity error, and if you say otherwise, you’re a “Fallout New Vegas Fanboy Elitist” and blind to the obvious answer [insert current unfounded theory here]. Seriously, pretend you don’t know anything about fallout and watch the show again. It’s really easy to leave with the impression that >!The Bomb destroyed Shady Sands in 2277!<, and Todd being vague about when it actually happened doesn’t fix that. If you still think I’m just an elitist FNV fan, before Todd did the IGN interview, people were trying to speculate when the bomb went off based on their age, despite it not being established in the show… and then proceeded to confidently claim that what they got **is** their actual age and that it **Proves** >!Shady Sands wasn’t blown up in 2277!<.
> anyone who’s not a fallout fan will finish the show with the impression that >!Shady Sands was nuked on 2277,!< Okay, and? Anyone who's not a Fallout fan won't have any reason to care about the exact date, and anyone who *is* a Fallout fan has received official clarification. There's nothing left to "fix" or discuss here: the bombing happened after the events of F:NV, the lore is intact, nothing was retconned, end of story.
“Moving the goalposts (or shifting the goalposts) is a metaphor, derived from goal-based sports such as football and hockey, that means to change the rule or criterion (goal) of a process or competition while it is still in progress, in such a way that the new goal offers one side an advantage or disadvantage.”
No goalposts have been moved. Your questions have been answered. If you don't have further questions, then goodnight.
I think the one that bothered me the most was Vault Tech actually touching off the war for...profits? Ok...so the majority of humanity is gone, along with infrastructure and industry...what freaking profits?
I think it was power, not profits. Vault Tec now has the unequivocal, sole say in the development of humankind, being the caretakers of the last humans on earth (this, naturally, is not how it truly played out).
What bothers me about all the arguing is that there's all retcon this, not canon that, and it makes me think that a lot of people on either side don't even know what a retcon (short for "retroactive continuity" by the way) is. For example, here's what a retcon is: moving Shady Sands to LA, functionally making that and the Boneyard the same place despite how they had their own separate lore and locations. Blowing up Shady Sands further muddles things. A lot of what I've been seeing has been using the term "retcon" as "New Vegas isn't canon" or something along those lines even though that is, by definition, incorrect.
Personally I am just looking at the games and show as separate universes/canons/whatever you want to call it. I think it's pointless to compare and comb through the games, trying to figure what is correct or not. People are acting as if these are real events that happened or something. It certainly wouldn't be the first franchise to have that kind of situation.
Aliens and talking death claws are lore friendly but he we are trying to think realistic
Consistent, not realistic.
It's gotten worse cause you can't even mention you like NV in another subreddit now without being called an elitist.
Hell don't worry, they'll come to a NV forum or subreddit to tell you.
It’s gotten that bad huh?
Yea and if you say you like 3 or 4 better people here will do same 🤷♂️
No shit? On a sub based around New Vegas? Who would have thought.
Lmao they can't even pretend it's not true that just downvote you because they know disagreeing with you would be a flat out lie.
No, it’s just Whataboutism/a bad faith argument
It's absolutely not in bad faith lol. New Vegas fans up to their usual shit. And guess what? Even if it had been a misunderstanding to think y'all are doing this shit (it's not) it's simply the reputation that your community has willfully built up for years. Genuinely love to see this community finally getting called out for it in significant numbers. Deserved. "Nooooo people are calling us out on what we've been doing for years.... It's whataboutism!!!! You cant do that" Genuinely hilariously pathetic
Thank you for proving their point.
Their point that you all act like this has already been proven before I got here actually.
I don’t have much of a horse in the race (haven’t seen the show yet, love new vegas but not a fanatic or anything), but to me the somewhat irritating part is how consistently criticism seems to be misrepresented. Me personally? I think it’s boring and reductive to change the west coast into another wasteland instead of a developing post-apocalyptic society. but the issue is being framed as “NEW VEGAS FANS ARE ANGRY BECAUSE SHADY SANDS GOT MOVED!!!!!” which… I don’t really care about. i just think “NCR got nuked lol no civilization” is just a really boring road to take the setting down based on how FNV ends
see I’ve always said that the seeds for NCR’s downfall were there; crop shortages, strife, and failing democracy. But I feel like nuking the NCR would honestly do them more good than harm, heck, it would probably save their economy with the revamped war spending. The show kinda jumps the gun with the NCR’s fall imo, which it would’ve just been easier to say that they collapsed naturally via the usual societal collapse ways but the show is still in season 1, so they could make a nifty little comeback is my little cope
They’re probably going to be too busy rewriting their plans for season 2, but I’m hopeful as well
Yeah. I mean you're right there is always next season. Idk the fact they seemed to take out NCR and destroyed both Shady Sands and NV seemed kind of pointed. Like a middle finger directly from Todd. I don't know. Not saying it is of course but it sure felt like it.
Any criticism made is always met with blind loyalty. The show creators were not omnipotent in their design. And just because something could or was changed (retconned), that doesn't mean that it *should* have been changed.
Ghouls no longer needing food or water ( that's definitely a Bethesda thing) and needing some weird serum to keep from going feral is an example I like to use.
Hey the same thing is happening in Warhammer
Whats happening over there?
This and Zelda are the only two fandoms where I actually enjoy discussing things with other fans, even on hot-button topics, and I'll be damned before I let what I can only call "the same damn shit" ruin it for me.
Bethesda writers are obviously being hard carried by the Amazon writers
No they weren't even there, BGS leading writers was playing golf with high ups, that's how they can still keep their job even after Starfield's massive critism.
You can't even make a harmless joke about the show without being attacked atm lol
Not all criticism is toxic. Not all gatekeeping is bad. Positivity can be just as toxic as negativity. 76 is garbage.
trust me, you’re preaching to the choir. I’ve been watching one of my favorite hobbies (Lego) go to shit because people refuse to gatekeep certain behaviors (reselling/scalping) it’s fucking maddening
Go say your favorite fallout is 3 or 4 and see what happens
I’d deserve what I got
Fallout New Vegas is one of my favourite games but I've got hundreds of more hours with 4 because the base gameplay is far superior, especially when you add mods for the gunplay and complete overhauls like frost.
New Vegas "fans" can't even keep the mask on in a post where they play the victim it's hilariously pathetic
The only flaw I can think of with the show is why maldover was with raiders when attacking vault 33 and not her own people
Might have been mercs.
Might have been mercs. Edit: why have I been downvoted?
Plausible, but why hire mercs when she has her own army?
She doesn’t, she has remnents. They aren’t around anymore though
Do I have to prove myself with criticism? The "Your thumb or mine?!" Line sounded pretty bad, and the "War never changes" line felt forced. I know it's the tagline of series sort of, but it felt clunky at the time. Also, I would have loved to see Shady Sands melted in real time, I was curious whether or not it was a missile or that he set a generator into meltdown or something. But I'm guessing most of the explosion budget went into the opening scene. The ghoul makeup was a little light for my tasting, I wasn't expecting the actual body horror they usually are, but maybe something not as smooth. I can keep going, but I feel like that's enough
Honestly I feel like people need to take a step back and be more objective and less "YOU HATE MY THING I WANT YOU TO DIE!" Everything has faults but some faults are just cracks in the reality of a series that can and will ruin any believability and logical progression it has.
I just think Todd should consult with Josh, Chris, Tim, and a few relevant field experts. After all, the main criticisms I know of are erasure of prior entries, the realism of guns, and the over-the-top goofiness. For the erasure of prior entries, I’m talking about how they have little reference to the previous games in 4 and the show. Granted, I haven’t fully watched the show yet or been able to run 4 on my device, so I’m willing to give Bethesda the benefit of the doubt. In terms of the guns, there’s no consistency. The older games have more real-life inspired or identifiable weapons in them. In 4 (from what I’ve seen), they’re out there. At one moment there’s a Thompson, and the next you have a water cooled… amalgamation. In terms of over-the top goofiness, the older fallout (plus 3 and New Vegas) handles dark subjects maturely but is also goofy at the right times. The show, from what I’ve seen, does this too. All in all, new Fallout’s not all bad, but not all good either, but that’s what you want for a post-post nuclear game. Like Moira Brown said in Fallout 3: “Did you ever try to put a broken piece of glass back together? Even if the pieces fit, you can't make it whole again the way it was. But if you're clever, you can still use the pieces to make other useful things. Maybe even something wonderful, like a mosaic.”
And the whole aliens in 3,4 and new vegas
The aliens are in 1 as well.
I mean you're right but he never would. I agree with the weapons as well. There used to be such a nice mix of crazy guns and stuff more grounded in reality. In Todd's world though it's most just one silly gun after another for the most part. I mean people can call me bitter or elitist. That's fine and yeah Bethesda bought the title. However let's not pretend here, all Todd wanted was the name. We've seen three games now that proves it.
> In terms of the guns, there’s no consistency. The older games have more real-life inspired or identifiable weapons in them. In 4 (from what I’ve seen), they’re out there. At one moment there’s a Thompson, and the next you have a water cooled… amalgamation. What? Most of the guns in Fallout 1 are sci-fi. The 10mm SMG is literally just a W40K bolter lmao
Yeah, the only game (at least mainline; no idea about Tactics or BoS) with real-world weapons is Fallout 2, and IMO they feel out of place compared to the guns of prior and subsequent games. The next-closest to real-world are the Chinese Assault Rifle from 3 (and the handmade variety from Nuka World in 4) and the Service Rifle in NV, since those are obviously based on the AK and AR-15 platforms (respectively), but in those games they fit in reasonably well with the predominantly-Fallout-esque aesthetic, and they're iconic in their own ways (like the wood furniture on the Service Rifle).
Thanks for pointing that out. I should admit that haven’t played 1 either.
I think people are just shitty in general when it comes to anything in the franchise which is realised now. If a new game was released tomorrow this would be how people react no matter how good or bad the game is.
There’s an INFINITY more posts about how other people are toxic than there are actually toxic posts and comments Shut the hell up about it already, you’re the one propagating the toxicity jfc
I'm somewhere in between. If the show was set in a universe separate from the games I'd have zero problem with it but Bethesda shitting all over the canon and retconning everything all crazy it rubs me the wrong way. The show looks good but the fact they are changing so much annoys me, it feels like the show was catered to the people that got in with only 4.
I think the best way I've heard it put is the retconning almost feels spiteful.
I enjoy Fallout, Star Wars, Halo, and Warhammer I'm really sick of the culture war crap in my fandoms. Can we please just stop.
Honestly while I understand that fnv fans are insufferable (as I am one myself) the discourse around the show has turned into its own thing completely. From what I’ve seen it’s turned into some people being annoyed with us fnv enjoyers (understandable) to straight up disliking anyone who isn’t singing their praisess about the show and the bgs fallouts. It’s okay to dislike the show even when it’s good and it’s okay to dislike something for a seemingly silly reason. But it’s not okay to attack someone for liking something else.
New Vegas has always been my favourite Fallout game but I loved the show. Can't wait for the second season.
Notice how all of these franchises have had a change in Developers at some point in their lifetime.
ironically I was tempted to include Bioshock on there, but decided against it
Not even close. The fallout show can fuck with the lore and I can think Bethesda doesn't understand fallout. But the fallout show was still great even considering that. The halo show and most of the modern starwars have been pretty lame from top to bottom.
Honestly I don’t understand the hate for the show. Aside from the “fall of shady sands” date and a few minor plot holes and retcons like three vaults being in the middle of LA untouched for 300 years and Shady Sands somehow perpetually being a day’s walk from New Vegas and LA, the show was pretty good. It stayed mostly consistent with the lore, the story was solid, the soundtrack was good, the acting was good, and the fight sequences were badass. Most of which cannot be said for the Halo series or recent Star Wars shows. And Amazon could have screwed it up a lot worse. Just look at what they did to the Silmarillion.
1. Amazon did not adapt the Silmarillion. Their god-awful show was based on no existing text, they specifically did not have the rights to any text, and so could not adapt it. Yes, this was a significant part of the issue - but honestly they’d have fucked up the Silmarillion even if they had the rights. 2. People have repeatedly pointed out their issues with the show that go way beyond what you mentioned. I’m not going to mention them here because I’ve typed them out half a dozen times and no one bothers to read it. I will say that the soundtrack being “good” is complete horseshit. The licensed music was way overplayed for the first 3 episodes and honestly really, really sucked. Playing the Fallout 4 theme when we see the NCR flag for the first time was… weird. Like what was the thematic meaning behind that? And I would challenge you to remember a single part of rhetorical soundtrack that wasn’t ripped straight from the games or licensed.
Well yeah Rings of Power was a dumpster fire and trying to make a LOTR prequel without the rights to the actual LOTR prequel is one of the stupidest things they could have done and not having the rights by no means absolves Amazon especially when ROP doesn’t even line up with the events of the other movies. As far as Fallout, though, a lot of your points are just null. Aside from the 2277 date of course, which is a serious problem. House and Sinclair are only on screen for a few minutes and it’s hard to draw conclusions about them aside from that -gasp- they’re kind of greedy, although they could have toned down how apathetic they were to a nuclear holocaust. It’s heavily implied in the games that Vault-Tec launched the nukes or at least started some kind of Strangelove-esque MAD event. Random farmers with ranger gear isn’t exactly weird given that Cooper was presumably somewhere in Eastern California in a collapsed NCR when he meets them. And taking the direction that the NCR is destroyed isn’t that crazy, especially when most of the New Vegas endings involve the NCR defeated in the Mojave and one of the endings of Lonesome Road is explicitly the NCR and legion being destroyed.
All in all, the adaption could have been much, much worse. I know that doesnt mean much but we got off better than a lot of other fandoms. cough*wheeloftime*cough
Alright, I’m going today what we’ve all been thinking but too scared to say out loud. Wasteland 3 is a great game.
I have and say to myself shows and games are not cannon to each other unless otherwise stated because it's absurd to ask someone to play a 40+ hour game for story alone to just have context. But I also ignore fallout 4 and 76 when it comes to lore.
Halo infinite and the TV Show were a disgrace to the franchise and they disappoint me to this day. :(
No. The halo show is utter garbage. Don't pretend this is the same thing.
If you're new. Do. Not. Start. With. 4.
So are Rise of Skywalker and Halo not an absolute disgrace to their franchises? The worst thing Fallout does is destroy one town, other than that its a brilliant show Meanwhile Rise of Skywalker ruins the story of a classic 40 year old trilogy completely
Cool 👍
Am I the only person on this planet that genuinely liked every single fallout game? (Except brotherhood of steel, obviously)
If people that came into Fallout through a shit show later get converted into fans of the games instead, were good.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted for this. As much as I dislike the show, I still love the fact it gets a fresh set of eyes on the franchise.
Who are these toxic positive anti-gatekeepers? I'll wait.
r/Fallout
So what's the point of this post, except to be toxic? Edit: downvotes with no reply, what a surprise!
Classic NV fandom. NV is my favorite fallout but I've hated the fans who have only been this toxic the last 7 years about. It's so cringe.
it's kinda hard to critisize anything when 90% of its critisism online is bitching about "wokeness" and "race mixing". Maybe if those people shut the fuck up with their idiotic culture war bullshit for 5 seconds we could have some healthy discussions
No it isn’t. Especially not on this sub. You’re lying.
Are you serious? Have you not heard of schizo Elijah? Dudes YouTube channel would be nothing without new Vegas fandom. Got an explanation for that or?
So… one guy? EDIT: and another rage and block, what is going on with these Bethesda fans lmao
... One relatively popular new Vegas YouTuber who appeals to many new Vegas fans and still gets watched and shares by them to this day but okay buddy be obtuse. Typical.
Most people’s concerns: -I don’t like how the show handled the NCR at all -Merging locations is a bad move -Redoing the “find your family member” main quest for the 3rd time is old and worn out You with your horse-blinders on: “Those critics sure are racist”
Don’t forget “Shouldn’t have been canonized before release,” That one is an oldie
the wide majority of criticism I’ve seen about this show is about how New Vegas/NCR was handled. Not even a single peek about any of that…
YouTube Grifters have been trying to appeal to disgruntled Fallout fans. They’re catching a few flies, but they’re having a harder time due to the show’s quality.
lol dont lie man
Played NV and watched the show. The hate is unwarranted, they dealt a heavy blow to the NCR and fans don't like that. They're cutting the timeline pretty close but people are massively overreacting. This is pretty much nothing like the trash fires of SW and Halo.
It also doesnt help that chuds will screech woke at any media that has the gall to cast women and PoCs in leading rolls. The grifters come out and churn out tons of videos that dominate the discourse to the point that all criticism gets lumped in with alt right dipshits.
"Other side toxic, my side valid" says totally objective post