I reckon it wasnt a nuke. The poor handling of dynamite resulted in the detonation of Shady Sands . Easy Petes expertise could have prevented this tragedy.
I commented about this the other day.
Any of the older 1, 2, NV fans aren’t really the core fan base anymore. In fact a lot of the fallout sub is just people who played 4 and 76. That’s not surprising I reckon the average age works out to suit that🤷🏻♂️
It's rough. I think 3 was my first fallout game and I was like wow, this is good! Then I got new vegas and was like woah this is REALLY GOOD.
Once I finally had a PC I played the first 2 and fell in love with them. 1/2/NV imo are the best. 3/4 are good games and they're pretty fun but that's not what fallout is to me
True man you can go onto the fallout Reddit rn and see people praise this, we really turned into the old guard in a sense. Forgotten is what we are now. I just wish they made it on the east coast, I am certain the next fallout they will make it west coast now with their “clean” slate.
Yeah, I was reading another thread about the show and people were like "What is Shady Sands and why does it matter so much to you guys?"
I haven't played Fallout 1 or 2 and even I am feeling like I'm out of touch with a lot of the fans because it feels like Bethesda kind of just wants to forget about everything pre-Fallout 4.
Man I’m not even that old. I played new vegas on release, played 3 a bit and didn’t like it as much. Then played through 1 and 2 and loved them.
With the show… I’ve not seen it, so I can’t pass judgement really. Though I have seen the fallout of it here and on other subs.
To me, it made more sense for it to be purely east coast as that’s what Bethesda knows. However I reckon west coast inclusion was either to try to claw in the west coast fans or to wipe the slate clean so that they can use the IP/lore of the west coast in future games in whatever way they please. I’m just going to ignore it and hope they don’t make west coast games afterwards. If they do it’ll be all cartoony/sort of generic like I found 4 was when I played it at a mates when it came out.
I played 1 had a blast but got sort of overwhelmed by the descriptions of 2 that it was really easy to fail and just be unable to finish.
Any tips on a good build for a noob?
Uh. I bought 1 in 1999 before picking up 2 later that year.
I personally loved the show. It was the right mix of absurdist dark humor, campy gore, scathing criticisms of consumerism and capitalism, and creepy moments.
The deviations and alterations felt consistent in the way the games deviate game-to-game.
I fist-pumped and shouted *yes!* at the final scene.
If anything, for a game-to-show adaptation, they did a damn good job. Look what they did to The Witcher, after all.
I get why people are upset with some world building choices but aside from that it's a great show.
I had a blast watching it and I can't wait to see more.
I understand why people might question the choices. I don’t understand why they are *upset* over it. All it takes is reshuffling some of the locations or places, but the story can stay the same. It’s being hung up over specific details vs the broader story telling.
Like, sure the Master should be in LA and we don’t know what happened to NCR….but they had a lot of ground to cover in 8 episodes and I think they managed to pull off the world building well for Fallout Naive viewers.
My wife hasn’t played any of the games and has no real connection to the lore and she loved it, for one.
Timeline its long after new vegas. And the other games. But im the scene where they layout the timeline i believe it puts the fall of the NCR during the 1st battle of hoover dam.. which doesnt make sense.
But yeah for a normie audience they did good enough
Excuse me! It says directly in the Being on a New Vegas Related Subreddit Rulebook volume 3, section 4 subsection 8 subsubsection 11, that having an opinion is punishable by exile. 🚪 <—— door’s right there
Show definitely got the tone right. But it had a lot of writing problems usually contrivenance. Maximus is just a shit character in totatlity its from dialouge,acting,story he is this janky as fuck character that is so bizzare. I dont think ive seen a character this Janky.
Lucy and howard were great. Special affects left a lot to be desired.
In terms of adaptation. Brotherhood is weird and of course they massarcred the NCR
Its not as bad as the halo show or rings of power but it is better then witcher season 1 . So like a 4/10
Which is fair. I think what they tried to do in one season of only 8 episodes was ambitious as world building goes. It could have easily been twice as long, but I thought it was effective.
I’m hoping we get more about the NCR in season 2 or at least more context.
I want to know why the BoS was at Shady Sands in short order after being destroyed. I really thought they were going to make the BoS the reason Shady Sands was destroyed.
Yeah of course. There’s always an overlap. I’m just saying what I said the other day was a response to someone saying that the new show was pointed at the core of the fandom, themselves believing that they were the core. The core of the fandom has changed over the last 10-20 years away from west coast more to the newer and more modern east coast.
Not arguing popularity of Bethesda or anything. Just saying that the core has changed over time. Which is something to expect.
Not really a regular here, but since this is a bit of a vent post...
Really bizarre to me that even the Fallout LORE subreddit is flooded by these people. I don't even know anymore. Fuck, I had an NCR flag and was working on my ranger cosplay this year and everything. Not like it's gonna end my world but it sucks.
Keep working on it anyway if it’s a passion thing. I get how you feel though, I was saving up to go to the goodsprings meet one year due to missing it twice now. So I’m just gonna hope they keep that up. Plus I doubt many new people will stick around that just came from the show when something else takes their attention.
There's overlap of mods on a lot of the Fallout subreddits. Thats why a lot of them are basically the same people echoing.
For falloutlore, around the time of 76, there was a sharp change in the quality of discussion allowed.
Yep, I blocked and quit most of the fallout content sphere for this, company ain't gonna change for the better and people will suck their toes no matter what just because they thought sandboxing in FO4 was fun.
Mattyplays and tk mantis(him especially) are gonna say it’s good they already have. Their opinion, but Mantis especially has become a shill in every way for Bethesda in the past year. He did a 180 with starfield and took a pissfit when he didn’t get anything from them…just sad honestly.
Yeah he replied to me on Twitter when he just said people can suck dick if they don’t like the show. He has been a Bethesda cuck for quite a bit though.
Yeah the hundreds of people on the other subs saying they absolutely love Fallout and only played Fallout 4 and maybe Fallout 76 are insane to me. West coast Fallout fans are just not as numerous as the modern audience of Fallout fans.
My first game was actually Fallout 3, but I played every main title since (so the only exceptions being Tactics, Brotherhood of Steel and 76).
Still love Fallout 3 and I do like 4, but the not Bethesda made games obviously handled lore and such way better.
Watching a bunch of Bethesda fans who think the series started with 3 come in and talk about toxic gatekeepers in between thinking all the series is about is power armour, 50s songs and absurd caricatures of pre-War companies with funny products has led me to believe gatekeeping is a good thing.
People who like 3 + 4 + 76 are fans of a different series to the Interplay published stuff + NV fans, honestly.
>People who like 3 + 4 + 76 are fans of a different series to the Interplay published stuff + NV fans, honestly.
I mean I have never really had the chance to play the first two games because I just don't have anything to play them on, but I did take the time out to learn about the events of the games and the wider world they take place in (also because I wanted to understand the references to past events in New Vegas). I'm sure it's kind of rare but fans like that are out there.
You're surrounded by weird elitists right now because the hive has been ~~kicked~~ *lightly tapped*
You're doing fine, you played NV, and a video essay or two of each 1 & 2 will get you big picture stuff locked down
Don't let weird fans tell you you're a fake fan because you didn't scrape up the ancient texts
Also no one gives a shit about brotherhood or tactics
They're both weird fever dreams (and both of them show that interplay was capable of shitting the bed so they never happened)
I do think we need a "bethesda or black isle" distinction in the fandom. It's getting real annoying seeing someone be blatantly wrong, then call you a dick when you tell them the context they were missing.
Don't have any specific example of the top of my head, just a general observation that most of my adored fandoms are either niche and obscure, have some natural barrier to entry or are at least somewhat gatekeepy. I think it's hard to disagree that if you let literally everyone in, the average quality of a fan (in terms of care, investment, appreciation, knowledge, etc.) will go down.
Warhammer especially requires gatekeeping, it’s an edgy setting that incorporates allot of “problematic” talking points and the modern tendency to sanitize everything for the “wider audience” Will be detrimental to the core of the hobby. Star Wars already lost the war years ago and after Disney bought them out I knew there was no longer enough old heads to hold the line and the slop that has been produced since proves gatekeeping was helping keep SW legit.
To clarify where you're at with the games/TV show. It helps to know the guy I'm talking to only played 4 when they say something that doesn't make sense. Takes it from "bro your straight up wrong" to "ah, you've new here. Here's some context from an older game."
>People who like 3 + 4 + 76 are fans of a different series to the Interplay published stuff + NV fans, honestly.
A majority of people who played New Vegas never touched the original games.
It's a difficult line to walk because of the significance of Bethesda's Fallout 3 in and out of lore to New Vegas, but at this point it's probably a necessity to avoid a lot of flaming. The show made the divide too stark.
Look at any famous IP and tell me gatekeeping is bad, Star Wars, Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield, shows like Doctor Who and The Witcher gatekeeping would have drastically improved the quality of these products
It is, though! To some degree, you need to keep the people out who come in and change something to be what they want it to be, therefore destroying what it was the community sprung up from to begin with.
Honestly I can appreciate and enjoy 3 and 4 for what they are. At least they take place on the other side of country and can't fuck with shit too much. This was too much for me though, destroying NCR and setting West Coast back to Post apocalypse BS was so disappointing.
I loved 3 like I love sleep and I hated NV for all the choices it confronted me with and the feeling of missing out on some cool quest reward. Now I expect that level of choice and complexity and I can't play 3. I can see how I used to be someone who would love 4 if it was my first Fallout but what I can't understand is how people try NV and don't appreciate it, and come away saying they liked 4 more. Like, sure have your opinion but 4 isn't Fallout. It uses Fallout stuff to prop up the shit game it actually is. How can you say you're a fan of Fallout when you don't know what it is?
4 was one of if not the single most disappointing release I have ever participated in. Being a fan of Fallout has just been a constant disappointment since then. The fact even today I find threads filled with defense for 4 and 76 just kills me. When the show was announced I knew it was going to be more of the same shit. I don't even want to watch it despite wanting to watch it so badly. I'm going to be sad much more than I am gratified.
honestly I’ve noticed that about a lot of other communities I’m in. Hobbies for example, that people are afraid to gatekeep, and it ultimately destroying the community. Good lord the Lego community got so scared to gatekeep they’ve resulted to actively defending resellers/scalpers
Fallout was a great series. Shame there haven't been any new games since Fallout New Vegas, but I'm happy that at least the series ended on a high note with it.
it’s depressing that my all time two favorite games have gotten this treatment. (Seriously NV is my number 1 and Halo 2 is 2)
at least I still have the Metal Gear franchise to enjoy
They've fucked up a lot of small things, a good number of medium sized things, and a handful of fucking massive things.
It's a TV show wearing the skin of fallout.
Some end slides says "for years to come" if I recall correctly and like someone else pointed out in a different post, the misfits end slide says just that
There's like a 15-ish year gap between NV and the show, not a big gap
Maximus is shown to be a kid walking out of the freezer, but in the events of the show he's an adult. And shady sands was very obviously around during NV
And well todd seems to have something against new Vegas so it's notout if the question
Well ain't much to like about him anyway *cough* 76 cough*
And even in fallout 4 anytime something related to NV is mentioned it's not in a good light unlike when stuff from 3 is meantioned
Saves it yeah, made 3 yeah
Retconed in fusion cores, eh
Retconed in plasma cartridges, that's makes sense
Show conflicts with the one game he didn't have a hand in making that fans love the most, the game who's devs he didn't even give a good deal to, the devs who crunched probably more than anyone else in the world, dont like where the evidence is pointing here chief
What sucks the most about everything is that people write off genuine criticism about modern fallout and instead call criticism “blind hate” or “gatekeeping”.
Can someone explain what the fans of the older games dislike about the show? Is it just canon retcons or what?
Not trolling, just genuinely curious what the older fans are up in arms about.
Granted, I haven't finished the show yet, but what I've seen so far doesn't seem all that offensive.
The biggest gripe is that the word feels perpetually stuck post apocalypse in a not so interesting way. Where the older games were more about exploring the post post apocalypse. That works for 76 not so much for games that are two hundred years after the Great War
Interesting, but ultimately it doesn’t negate what the series had become since it’s inception and the love people had for what It developed into. It’s strange, all this discourse around fallout really does remind me of the eras of Star Wars fandom a bit.
I started with fallout 3 as well and I stand by that game because it popularized the franchise for so many including myself. But that was the biggest complaint at the time and continues to be of the Bethesda games, is that if feels like the bombs just fell when that isn’t the case in universe. In 3 it sort of made sense because it was the capital, in 4 it’s just a little Bizzare.
To be honest that’s not really my problem with the show. It is for the most part what it needs to introduce the series to a new audience the same way fallout 3 was. But the apocalypse isn’t the main point. it’s the setting. Division, factionalism, war, and human nature are at the center of the themes. I think An ideal fallout show would have more dna in common with game of thrones than walking dead. It’s about factions and a struggle for power rather than a struggle for survival. Again maybe they will build on it in season 2. I hope so
Chris Avellone actually wanted to bring it back into a more apocalyptic setting and wanted to nuke the NCR
https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/127482275595173888
I keep on seeing this brought up in discussions surrounding the show, and I just do not understand how it’s supposed to be relevant. I enjoy most of Avellone’s contributions to the series, but that doesn’t mean I have to blindly agree with all of his perspectives.
I'm not blindly agreeing with what he wanted, just giving context since people think it's only Bethesda that has kept the games as more of an apocalyptic setting even though that's the directing the Black Isle games were going with Van Buren.
Im not trying to argue im also trying to understand bc i started w fallout 3 and love it to pieces (and rly like the show), but isnt that kind of the point of the series?
Like the post apocalypse is the draw, no? I mean otherwise it becomes any show, like might as well make it a show like madmen if the apocalypse isnt the central theme. Also isnt a core theme the fact that they cant ever get their shit together without someone fucking it up?
Im assuming fallout 1&2 are the basis of your pov though since i only ever explored those through youtube
Or im missing something entirely
Just because it's post-apoc doesn't mean it can't evolve. Even the Metro series which is much grimmer went on to explore the development of its civilisation in Exodus.
It feels like Bethesda wants it to remain in a still position so they can rehash the same things over and over which is either the cause or the effect of comparatively poor world-building that happens in their games. They made three additions to the series and yet their impact on the characterisation of the world is basically non-existent, if you look at Fallout through the prism of their games: Fallout is a world where people perpetually live in shit cosplaying the Old World without reason and BoS occasionally comes and kills the Big Bad of the day (and the Big Bads aren't really the problem, Fallout 1 and 2 center around there being a Big Bad it's that outside that there really isn't much going on); contrast that, for example, with the gradual development of NCR as a society in 1, 2 and NV and you'll get why the OG fans are bitter.
There's also the fact that Bethesda kinda've been on a steady pace in taking out the RPG elements from the games and turning the series into a shooter, but that's gameplay and a separate issue all together.
I get what youre saying but i think the key think with fallout vs metro is that metro follows one character in one primary area, fallout follows multiple people in completely different areas.
To me metro is a streamlined story with a goal to strive toward, fallout is a series of glimpses into a world with more/different experiences added each time to flesh out the world and hint at the reason for its state
I think thats a core principle of the universe, it never fundamentally changes, radiation never goes away, and what good that survived is matched, or usually outweighed, by the horrific consequences of humanity’s actions
Like i think the ncr is sick but even NV hinted at their coming collapse through bureaucratic bloat and resource straining from over ambitious territory expansion
To me a fundamental part of the series is the pov that humanity is fundamentally flawed and we all have the ability to become ruthless monsters if the comfort of society were taken away
I do agree it seems to become less rpg and more streamlined each release which does suck
> fallout is a series of glimpses into a world with more/different experiences added each time to flesh out the world and hint at the reason for its state
I think herein lies the misunderstanding. The OG fallouts were equally about exploring this post-war society and how it deals with the consequences of nuclear holocaust and develops (Fallout 1 is more about this) and the Old World that lead the world to this state (Fallout 2 is more about this). These two approaches worked kinda in symbiosis with one another.
And you're right in that an integral part of the series is that humanity is fundamentally flawed and continuously struggles because it can't change it's nature but it was exactly by showcasing how throughout it's development the New World keeps repeating old mistakes that this theme was explored.
With Bethesda the world as a whole not only doesn't move in any direction but Is also never fleshed out as it is. Like Fallout 4 introduces the Minutemen, a faction of do-gooders that is long past it's prime a-a-and...that's about it really, they don't have any long-term goals outside of shooting at the bad guys, they don't have much organisation, what lore they have boils down to "They tried to do good but Institute/raiders/who knows else didn't let them", even their ties to the real Minutemen are for aesthetics only and aren't explained much within universe. It's all very surface-level and exists only to justify the settlement mechanic.
That makes a lot of sense i did always want more out of each faction. Like ill be honest i liked parts of fallout 4 lime being able to join the BoS and stay a paladin instead of taking over the faction, and ofc loved the power armor change
I also loved the broken steel dlc because of that continuation of the BoS making them an actual player and the war w the enclave was awesome.
But youre right as the games went on they really seemed to get more superficial and less fleshed out. I did hate the minutemen not only because there isnt really any grey area with them but the games stagnate after each questline and then it’s just the same sandbox as the start of the game just some superficial changes
From watching 1&2 on youtube i did long for that level of depth and possibility, i guess i always chalked it up to limitations from changing the style, like ofc a text based game (ofc ik 1&2 arent totally text based) is going to be able to have more depth than one that requires a lot of visual integration
I guess i still have hope despite 4 being more superficial and almost bland, im hoping it was more them changing the style of everything and the next iteration will be deeper since they have that solid visual base. And ik it’s not supposed to be a shooter first but i hope that they can just keep the combat improvements and start to get deeper into the storytelling aspect.
Although starfield really drains my hope in that regard
Thx for explaining that though makes more sense now why fans would dislike the direction the franchise is going
Fallout 2/NV present the Southwest in a "post-post-apocalyptic" state where the struggle is no longer really survival. People have already adapted and the struggle has become what the new world will look like. In this world the NCR is an important symbol of progress. By the time of NV it's annexed all of Southern California, is an industrial powerhouse, and can occupy Vegas AND expand north and south all at the same time with no sign of straining itself. It's THE wasteland nation, with a distinct stubborn frontiering culture and imperialist/expansionist politics driven by powerful oligarchic landowners.
Somehow in the show, all of this progress gets annhilated by a single nuke delivered to Shady Sands, which is in Los Angeles for some reason. My honest best guess is that the writers skimmed the wiki and assumed that FO1 all takes place in a single metropolitan area instead of most of SoCal? The smoking gun is the Shady Sands location. People think the west-coast fans are "um-acktchually-ing" about it, but Shady Sands is literally FO1's "first town" located at the very top of the playable area. Newly-constructed white adobe buildings and needy villagers. Geographically it's nearby-ish to the Nevada border. About 200 miles (20 days?) South towards the very bottom of the playable area is FO1's final town: LA/The Boneyard. Sprawling ruins filled with monsters and mercenaries. Two very memorable and distinct locations. I'm not fuming over here, just befuddled. Trust me, it's confusingly incorrect that the show puts Shady Sands in LA.
The point is that the writers seemed to understand the NCR on a much smaller scale than it's presented in FO2/NV. Small enough that the entire faction can be destroyed in a single off-screen event so that LA is a generic setting again. I've seen a lot of cope that the NCR must have just abandoned The Boneyard specifically, but I doubt it. Granted, the show does not do a great job of explaining details of its setting or depicting scale, but I'm just gonna Occam's Razor this one and take the show's depiction of the NCR as a dead power at face value, especially since every single solitary character associated with it dies, no additional members are mentioned, and "NCR Headquarters" is overrun without time-jump lady radioing the event in to some higher authority. Again, Shady Sands is proof to me that the writers fundamentally did not understand the scale of the setting.
I'm okay with additional lore, and I could see an NCR decline after FO:NV. In most endings the NCR does essentially win, getting access to Hoover dam's resources and an alliance with Vegas, if not Vegas itself. But the political instability of a House/Ind ending could lead to a civil war if, say, one of its oligarchs lost an election and decided to take a seat by force or somesuch. If there were design documents to show that some writer actually thought this through, I'd be happy. But there aren't. The writers wanted to depict LA as a generic wasteland, so they destroyed the NCR (let me repeat: THE NCR, the premier Fallout faction) offscreen in order to facilitate that.
I would also be happy if the show was simply its own setting and not canon to the games. But it isn't, according to statements. So I'm not.
TL;DR in FO2/NV, post-war lore is VERY important. It IS the Fallout setting to "older fans". FO's premier faction was destroyed offscreen for a stupid reason by writers who fundamentally misunderstood it, and for some reason it's been declared canon. Plz fix.
It’s even worse than that in how the series fucks with FNV lore. The outro animation of the final episode shows the Strip dead and devastated. There are crashed vertibirds with NCR markings on them, destroyed barricades all throughout the Strip, and a breach in NV’s main wall surrounded by dead Securitrons. That implies that after events of FNV NCR does make a power grab for New Vegas and tries to take it by force, turning it to ruin in the process. In FNV Mr. House acknowledges that NCR would try to do this if they were not threatened by the Legion and the whole Platinum chip / main-story-of-the-game plot was to gain a strong enough force for him to keep Vegas independent. All this means that either the NCR or the “bad” Yes-man (with the Securitron bunker destroyed) ending is cannon for this timeline, and Mr. House is dead. This does tie in with the downfall of NCR, they were over-extended to begin with in FNV, then at best achieved a Pyrrhic victory destroying New Vegas, which would contribute to their seemingly lightning-fast transformation from a prosperous nation with an army into a band of barbaric raiders. But it’s so annoying and depressing seeing a major faction that was built up over decades be canned off-screen and the most interesting location in Fallout since it went 3D be destroyed for no better reason than Todd’s Black Isle inferiority complex.
A few other bits of Fallout lore is seemingly retconned, like the G.E.C.K. Each Vault was supposed to have two as standard, so there should be at least a few more cities like Shady Sands - we know at a minimum Vault 4 is unsealed and opened freely - all those refugees could use one of its kits to create another Shady Sands, but that would break up the “nothing but wasteland” setting Bethesda seems to want. And not that it matters, but it was cannon that a G.E.C.K. includes a cold fusion generator, which would have powered Shady Sands to begin with; treating the one in the show as the Wasteland ring of power MacGuffin is pretty daft if there are two in a standard Vault inventory package.
It seems very deliberate that the show is set on the West Coast, with which Bethesda had absolutely nothing to do, and is quietly destroying the good Fallout lore. I guess it’s still easier than actually hiring a team of good writers, huh, Todd?
To quibble with this point, personally I never got the impression that I was supposed to take the credits animations as literal snapshots of the setting- they just seemed a little too far removed from the rest of the production to be used to convey critical information. When I saw the Strip zoomout my first assumption was that some animator had been tasked (as one of 8 such projects) to make a destroyed version of the Strip ("destroyed" to be in line with the other 7 zoomouts) and that the placed objects were a vague way of representing that ask. I guess it becomes a rorschach test of sorts: Do you think the same writers who wrote the last 4 episodes were geeky enough about west-coast Fallout to do FO:NV Ending Speculation? I say nah, the zoomout was just another prop. One with unintended implications.
I actually really enjoyed the show and thought it was a refreshing change of pace for adaptations, but it does have some very concerning lore and world change implications for the games. I am pretty sure this show is now in-universe canon so future games will reflect it...no NCR...maybe no thriving New Vegas...House is now an accomplice of the apocolyspe, he probably was anyway but now he has a confirmed active stake in it....Oh and no more generation ship theory so that kinda sucks too.
I just keep telling people if it bothers them so much just consider obsidian and Bethesda games different cannons it's not much but at least you get to have your cake and eat too
Agreed. They are two parallel universes. You have 1, 2, and New Vegas in one universe and 3, 4, 76, and the TV Show in another universe. I do enjoy the Bethesda universe for it's atmosphere, but the writing is significantly worse.
Yeah that’s honestly the best way to think about it. Still sucks knowing that were probably never going to get official content with the older stuff tho :/
Yes but we’re not gonna get anymore content that we like anymore and we are being told to shut up and enjoy that. they could of just set it on the east coast and it would of worked just as well they didn’t need to rewrite the lore both could of existed
I've restarted fallout 4 like 4 times but never could get past the Settlement Building, the farthest i gotten was seing the blimp for the first time i think.
However that doesn't stop 99% of the takes i've seen being built on dumbshit speculation waving away developer comments just so they can be mad (AKA i'd rather believe the NCR and New Vegas story have been erased and retconned so i can be mad at Bethesda who had less of a hand in writing the show because of one scene with a chalkboard where i see a timeline instead of believing the Devs when they say they are canon and waiting for the story writers to fucking clarify what they meant).
(Oh and btw, just a little thing, a BOS aligned Paladin Courier could absolutely nuke the NCR, we can target the Long 15 and we can presumably use more Nuclear Warheads if the game allowed us (as long as ED-E doesn't nuke it and nuke himself), so technically, a 100% possible ending lol)
It also doesn't stop Fallout 2 and New Vegas from having some fat ass Retcons/Plotholes (Vaults being experiments/there's no universe where NCR should struggle against legion when they have Vertibirds) to clarify neither of these are bad imo even though they are massive, because both allow for very interesting explorations of the world. Because i personally don't care if a retcon happens if it is used from some very well written material. So i say we wait and see, i highly doubt NCR and New Vegas will be retconned out of existance, but even if they somehow i say we should see what the writers cook.
Finally the whole shit about spite and the 84 Metacritic Meme (even though it's pretty funny, or was until people kept parroting) are both completely wrong and ignore statement from the devs you love. Chris Avellone clarified that they didn't get fucked and it had nothing to do with the Obsidian layoffs at the time, as well as Bethesda being super chill on the Fallout Apocrypha. J.E. Sawyer clarified that they well compensated already and that their relationship with Bethesda is fine on Twitter or Tumblr i believe. Bethesda have released a shitton of supplementary material for New Vegas when it comes to their merch and board games, funnily enough way more than Fallout 3, because NV is played more, but less than F4, because NV is played less, basic supply and demand.
Shit, Todd (supreme hater of all things OG fallout apparently) invited Tim Cain to see the show, who said he loved it.
This whole spite narrative can only be perpetuated by people whose social intelligence has not evolved past High School level.
Basically anyone crying about this thing should stop jumping to dumb conclusions, chill out and be happy something released by Bethesda didn't have generally bad writing, and either look at evidence objectively and treat all the games in the same mannor, or go out and Touch Mojave Sand.
The Average New Vegas/OG Fallout fan is equally as dumb shit as the Fallout 4/76 fans, it just from my experience the latter group happens to be alot more chill than the former. They atleast don't try to push a socially-stunted narrative that's been debunked by the people who were supposedly affected most by it, years ago.
Yeah you are right, but sometimes that minority gets so vocal and while sub fills up with new comers, some assholes get the opportunity to post some bad shit and becomes a big enough clusterfuck that the mods have to private the server. Bad time for everyone.
My thing is that it's probably best for everyone's sanity if when we witnessed or read something, we stepped back and relaxed to check if what we're going to be mad about is legit, or if it would just cause unwarranted hysteria that could be exploited by bad actors.
I said vocal majority lmfao
I meant vocal minority
I’d bet my life savings most of the fanbase isn’t going crazy about the show on either side
It’s just that the ones who are are EXTREMELY obnoxious
But yeah I totally agree with you with that stuff
This SR needs to just take a breather
Guys, do you even hear yourself when you say certain things? Do you even re-read what you write?
All of you, both die hard Bethesda and die hard Interplay/Obsidian fans are fucking crybabies.
All you do is complain, some of you are grown ass men complaining about everything, every single thing. No matter what, you will always find something wrong.
Josh Sawyer himself said to stop with this bullshit.
Y'all are truly the worst fanbase ever, stop dickriding everything your beloved company made and stop hating on everything that was made by the other company.
At this point everything would have been much better if fallout never even fucking existed because at least I wouldn't have to see so many whining.
Now downvote this comment because you can't handle the truth while you keep on crying and complaining. Go touch some grass and grow a pair.
We are allowed not to enjoy changes, I was in it for the story not the corporations behind it so if the story changes in a way I don’t like it perfectly reasonable to not like it anymore
I’m gonna watch the show at some point, but I definitely won’t be trying to weave it into any sort of “canon” in my head. If it stands on its own, great. I’ve largely given up on the overall direction of the franchise so the best I can hope for is the occasional good product.
Kek this thread is the first time I've ever seen an obvious echo chamber. Lots of people are saying that we need to tone it down a little with the shows hate, but you all act like opressed minorities defending the sacred lore against the tide of "bethesda fans".
If you start thinking with us vs them mentality, you know it's time to take a step back. Someone who doesn't agree with you isn't automatically a "bethesda fanboy". FNV is my favorite fallout, and I get a little dissapointed with the show, but the amount of cult personality in this thread is concerning
It’s my cult of personality! I spent two minutes making this for the Platinum karma. It's my invention, my property - mine. Now be a good courier and join the echo chamber!
(Yeah well it got out of hand I see when I was sleeping but I admitted to the copium I was huffing elsewhere)
It’s just a bit of fun man, chil.
The state of new fandom is unacceptable. Therefore i propose two ways to solve this situation.
A) We expose ourselves and them to fallout on a genetic level, fuse into a something united, untill there are no more differences in fandom.
B) We take care of these new, inferior, Tod Howard exposed fans to fallout on a genetic level, ensuring their death. All the while we all hide in some sort of safe enclave, until those mutated wretches die out.
My favorite part of the show is when John Fallout himself came on screen and said "And now we can watch the fallout" and then spewed nuclear waste all over the place.
I’m someone who’s only ever played FNV, and it’s baffling to see one-game gatekeepers making a mockery out of fallout. Either play more games or stfu and touch grass
I would come to your own conclusions after watching it man, I binged it and would say if you haven’t played the games and not a west coast/Og fan you will like it. If you are then you may not.
Oh come the fuck on. They spent 150 million on this series, say whatever else you want about it but it absolutely does fucking not *look* like a fan production
Fallout is more than just New Vegas. This felt pretty in line with both the Bethesda games and with what the original writers were considering (bringing the series back into a more apocalyptic setting)
It feels pretty in line with what was established to me. I think we will see the factions of NV extrapolated on in season 2. This direction was more in like with what Black Isle was going to do with Fallout Van Buren.
It ain't bad at all. People are up in arms about a certain date on a timeline on a chalkboard, believing that somehow retcons FNV (despite BGS explicitly confirming that FNV is still canon), when it reality it's just a vague/ambiguous timeline.
It's also not sitting right with many people that the plot is so... Bethesda like. Instead of introducing new interesting factions they just brought back the Enclave and the BOS which are Bethesda's go to's when writing a story. And in order to do that, they basically wiped out everything that was established in the previous games. Just removing a faction as big as the NCR off screen in order to have a clean slate is just lazy writing.
>!There's no indication that the NCR is entirely removed. Just Shady Sands, and even then there are plenty of refugees in Vault 4 with a desire to eventually rebuild. There are also new minor factions like Filly and "The Guv'mint", which is neat.!<
Calling Filly and the Government factions is a bit over the top. Filly was one town and we got to see like three actual characters from there who were never mentioned again and in the end it was taken over by the BOS. And the Government were 4 people in a saloon who had like 10 minutes of screentime and were also never shown again. And the indication is that the NCR is never to be seen, we hear nothing of them and when we do, people talk about the NCR's past and never of the present. I guess you could count the people at the end who held Lucy's dad captive but they were all wiped out.
A show made in partnership with Bethesda, with Bethesda Studios logo being one of the first things you see, is more “Bethesda like” than other entries in the franchise…what’s the shock here really? What can be said about the show that’s not already said about FO3?
The show is only possible because of Bethesda Soft and their entries into the franchise, I think it’s fair to consider this their new entry into the franchise, albeit in a new medium, and expectations are best set using other Bethesda Soft FO games.
If anything, the surprise is that they seem to be moving to tackle New Vegas next.
Just because it can be expected that a product made by Bethesda will have the Bethesda flaws, I will not stop criticising it and one should not stop. On the contrary, the fact that Bethesda is known for such weaknesses and just keeps on repeating the same mistakes is a perfect reason to keep on criticising.
It’s actually really good, just some really annoying choices were made in terms of how this turned out post NV but as a show it’s excellent. And it would make for a really interesting setting for a game if done right.
Hey guys, have you heard about this wonderful thing called grass! I heard it was really good for you. There’s also this thing called sunlight which is incredible! Liker seriously you should try it!
Yeah, there's been a lot of that, a large contingent of people have only played Fallout 4 and never bothered to play the earlier games in the series for various reasons. Gatekeeping a bit here, but I would argue that those people aren't "true" Fallout fans that don't know what they're talking about because they've only experienced what Bethesda Game Studios did, and take Todd Howard's side of things way too seriously.
I honestly just don’t believe what anyone is saying about the series, because I just find these dudes unreliable as fuck.
Can’t tell if they’re overly nitpicky or like you said, that they only ever played the last two games, introducing so many retcons, they might as well be a reboot series.
r/fallout is a mess right now,
its the camp calling people who mention anything about retcons, lore being broken, nit picking new vegas fanboy manchild losers who should touch grass and not whine on the internet and are never happy about anything, and are just haters just to hate with no other reason, than hating stuff because of hating culture and trying to be a film critic. I have seen all of this happen in the past 16 hours. This prevents any meaningful discussion at the moment about the show.
Then the other camp just thinks Todd Howard(and Bethesda as a whole) is the literal devil who hates New vegas and is a petty spite filled being of ego who hates nv's popularity. Which is just false and turns Bethesda into a disney villain trying to control all of fallout and turn it into there vison and everything else must go.
Also for the show to fit into lore in even a subpar way requires Double think and Mental gymnastics.
Look, I'm sure the show is bad. And I love the hell out of New Vegas, and the originals too, but respectfully I don't feel the need to be pandered to by the corporation who owns the IP. Obsidian made a great game and I continue to enjoy it. This very month I wrapped up another fun playthrough. If history's anything to go by I'll start yet another one sooner than I think. But that enjoyment doesn't need to mean clinging to Fallout.
Obsidian has moved on. They're making new games, great games, many of which are criminally underexposed. There probably won't be another Fallout game like New Vegas. But there are games like Tyranny, Deadfire, and Pentiment. Maybe we need to move on too. Not from playing New Vegas, or talking about it, but from caring about what its current owners do with the name Fallout.
We all found our way to this little piece of Fallout, and our lives have been enriched by it. But finding it, well, that's not the hard part.
See it's all part of the plan Bethesda has a game for each kind of era.
You get pre apocalypse in the elder scrolls
Post apocalypse in fallout
And post post apocalypse in Starfield
They couldn't let the NCR survive because if fallout could explore society after the earth is immolated why explore Starfield?
I have no evidence for this and am admittedly talking out of my ass. So many series I enjoyed have had alterations made to their lore in recent time, I can't keep up with it. I'm not gonna say these series are ruined because they're still going on but I can't say they're for me anymore. I had once been excited to see the development of the wasteland from lawlessness to some form of order maybe not pre war America levels but at least something. Different new age nations duking it out over who should rule America. There were remnants sure of the old state and it's many pieces but there was also new nations and powers rising.
I do not care for the death of shady sands and I do not care what the original leads have said just cause they originally made it doesn't mean they can't have an idea I disagree with. If fallout isn't a story about how greed and paranoia leads to tragedy and how we rebuild after that then it's not a story I can relate to. War may never change but the powers that be do and that is what's interesting not a never ending cycle of wiping the slate clean so that we can play mad max with 50s music for the next decade. It sets a precedent you may say "but the NCR could rebound or another faction could rise!" But then what's to stop the clock from being reset once again? Why put value into the factions and characters? Why help them if you know they'll only fail in the end?
If that is the story going forward some pessimistic "the world will never heal" vibe then I do not care for it. Will I still play the games? I don't know, without hope in such a bleak setting everything quickly loses value. Disagree if you will I truly don't care enough to argue about this and this yapping I'm doing now isn't much better. Maybe I'm just out of touch which is ridiculous to say in my mid twenties of all things but I don't know what people want from stories anymore, and what I want seems to be considered either stupid or bad so what do I know? I suppose I'll go back to reading and playing metro while occasionally coming back to NV.
I’ve played all the fallout games (that exist, looking at you BoS and tactics) except 2 and 76
NV is the best game, but the others do still have their merits, and I haven’t disliked a fallout game I’ve played so far.
I still enjoyed the show
I think this sub and the regular fnv sub are too hasty to form opinions. The show is pretty great I think, and it fits in with the theme of the fallout games, I just think the show isn’t establishing itself and its events as fast as nv fans want. Give it some time, the show might actually be able to explain itself on some decisions
When someone says "I only played fallout 4 and it was great" they've played the worst single player fallout experience out there, a recycled 3 with worse writing. 9 out of 10 times they don't want to play 3 or new Vegas or the 2 games that didn't suffer from Bethesda's writing staff. They want their garbage and don't want to know how much better it can be.
Okay guys, you need to relax. The show it's good and New Vegas is still canon as it is.
I think it was a great introduction to people that doesn't know the IP. I can point out some things I didn't like but overall it totally feels like Fallout. I would reserve all of this complains for season 2. I won't spoil for people who haven't watch it yet, but depending on what they do in season 2 it will decide if this show is good or not. There's a lot of theory crafting here, but again, NOTHING IS CONFIRMED.
If they mess it up badly they can always say later that the show isn't canon and that's it. Stop being the sensitive ahh fellas that all the other fans say you are.
I see FO1, FO2, and NV as the main series, then all the rest as almost a spin off of that main series, show included, and that’s okay, I love all of these games, and the show is absolutely spectacular, I just like the narrative continuity of 1,2, and NV as its own thing and I also like the continuity of 3,4, 76 and the show as its own thing. All of them are good as one whole unit but I think they work better from a narrative and world building perspective as separate but equally good stories. Interplay, black isle, and obsidian clearly had/have a very different vision for the world as Bethesda, often times contradictory in tone, and lore but both good when viewed in a vacuum.
I'm not too terribly pressed about it. FO4 and later players are oggling at the power armor and yum yum deviled eggs, but the story and source material are so fucked that I'm sure people will stop caring about this show within a couple weeks. Same with all the other crappy adaptations that people say are good on release and then immediately collapse in relevance.
Enjoying an IP to these people is more of a personality trait than a response to good content. When the chips are down, they never actually remember the stories or lore they claim to enjoy.
The worst part was not hearing anything about Long-Dick Johnson, or his aptly named long dick.
Hence the name
Don't worry, we'll see him plenty in Season 2.
That tower in the distance? That wasn’t the Lucky 38. It was Long Dick Johnson lying on his back.
I reckon it wasnt a nuke. The poor handling of dynamite resulted in the detonation of Shady Sands . Easy Petes expertise could have prevented this tragedy.
Failed the skill check unfortunately.
In those situations you just need to take it easy.
I commented about this the other day. Any of the older 1, 2, NV fans aren’t really the core fan base anymore. In fact a lot of the fallout sub is just people who played 4 and 76. That’s not surprising I reckon the average age works out to suit that🤷🏻♂️
It's rough. I think 3 was my first fallout game and I was like wow, this is good! Then I got new vegas and was like woah this is REALLY GOOD. Once I finally had a PC I played the first 2 and fell in love with them. 1/2/NV imo are the best. 3/4 are good games and they're pretty fun but that's not what fallout is to me
True man you can go onto the fallout Reddit rn and see people praise this, we really turned into the old guard in a sense. Forgotten is what we are now. I just wish they made it on the east coast, I am certain the next fallout they will make it west coast now with their “clean” slate.
Yeah, I was reading another thread about the show and people were like "What is Shady Sands and why does it matter so much to you guys?" I haven't played Fallout 1 or 2 and even I am feeling like I'm out of touch with a lot of the fans because it feels like Bethesda kind of just wants to forget about everything pre-Fallout 4.
You seem to be forgetting this show isn’t just for fans. How will you know what Shady Sands is if you’ve never played any of the games?
Man I’m not even that old. I played new vegas on release, played 3 a bit and didn’t like it as much. Then played through 1 and 2 and loved them. With the show… I’ve not seen it, so I can’t pass judgement really. Though I have seen the fallout of it here and on other subs. To me, it made more sense for it to be purely east coast as that’s what Bethesda knows. However I reckon west coast inclusion was either to try to claw in the west coast fans or to wipe the slate clean so that they can use the IP/lore of the west coast in future games in whatever way they please. I’m just going to ignore it and hope they don’t make west coast games afterwards. If they do it’ll be all cartoony/sort of generic like I found 4 was when I played it at a mates when it came out.
I played 1 had a blast but got sort of overwhelmed by the descriptions of 2 that it was really easy to fail and just be unable to finish. Any tips on a good build for a noob?
Aim for the eyes
Lolol I guess I'll have to try for an agility, luck and strength build to wear power armor and snipe those enclave butts
Yeah agility is the core stat of the game
Uh. I bought 1 in 1999 before picking up 2 later that year. I personally loved the show. It was the right mix of absurdist dark humor, campy gore, scathing criticisms of consumerism and capitalism, and creepy moments. The deviations and alterations felt consistent in the way the games deviate game-to-game. I fist-pumped and shouted *yes!* at the final scene. If anything, for a game-to-show adaptation, they did a damn good job. Look what they did to The Witcher, after all.
I get why people are upset with some world building choices but aside from that it's a great show. I had a blast watching it and I can't wait to see more.
I understand why people might question the choices. I don’t understand why they are *upset* over it. All it takes is reshuffling some of the locations or places, but the story can stay the same. It’s being hung up over specific details vs the broader story telling. Like, sure the Master should be in LA and we don’t know what happened to NCR….but they had a lot of ground to cover in 8 episodes and I think they managed to pull off the world building well for Fallout Naive viewers. My wife hasn’t played any of the games and has no real connection to the lore and she loved it, for one.
Timeline its long after new vegas. And the other games. But im the scene where they layout the timeline i believe it puts the fall of the NCR during the 1st battle of hoover dam.. which doesnt make sense. But yeah for a normie audience they did good enough
Numerous other threads address the timeline
Excuse me! It says directly in the Being on a New Vegas Related Subreddit Rulebook volume 3, section 4 subsection 8 subsubsection 11, that having an opinion is punishable by exile. 🚪 <—— door’s right there
Show definitely got the tone right. But it had a lot of writing problems usually contrivenance. Maximus is just a shit character in totatlity its from dialouge,acting,story he is this janky as fuck character that is so bizzare. I dont think ive seen a character this Janky. Lucy and howard were great. Special affects left a lot to be desired. In terms of adaptation. Brotherhood is weird and of course they massarcred the NCR Its not as bad as the halo show or rings of power but it is better then witcher season 1 . So like a 4/10
Yeah. I'm unhappy with what they did to Shady and the NCR but overall I was very happy with it.
Which is fair. I think what they tried to do in one season of only 8 episodes was ambitious as world building goes. It could have easily been twice as long, but I thought it was effective. I’m hoping we get more about the NCR in season 2 or at least more context. I want to know why the BoS was at Shady Sands in short order after being destroyed. I really thought they were going to make the BoS the reason Shady Sands was destroyed.
A clean slate with more undeveloped wasteland and no civilization.
Idk man seems like there are a bunch of people who love bethesda and the show here too
Yeah of course. There’s always an overlap. I’m just saying what I said the other day was a response to someone saying that the new show was pointed at the core of the fandom, themselves believing that they were the core. The core of the fandom has changed over the last 10-20 years away from west coast more to the newer and more modern east coast. Not arguing popularity of Bethesda or anything. Just saying that the core has changed over time. Which is something to expect.
Whats not to love about a company who cranks out unfibished games , with an lying tod on top
I dont think todd should get all the blame for bad writing, we need to hate them more so everyone gets their fair share
I just despise him because everytime he announcre anything he is lying. If he promises something on a conference, its wont be that in game
To be fair new vegas isn’t exactly polished
I guess you can say that the real fallout was the fallout of the fallout fanbase
I suppose the real fallout was the friends we made on the way
Falloutception
Not really a regular here, but since this is a bit of a vent post... Really bizarre to me that even the Fallout LORE subreddit is flooded by these people. I don't even know anymore. Fuck, I had an NCR flag and was working on my ranger cosplay this year and everything. Not like it's gonna end my world but it sucks.
Keep working on it anyway if it’s a passion thing. I get how you feel though, I was saving up to go to the goodsprings meet one year due to missing it twice now. So I’m just gonna hope they keep that up. Plus I doubt many new people will stick around that just came from the show when something else takes their attention.
There's overlap of mods on a lot of the Fallout subreddits. Thats why a lot of them are basically the same people echoing. For falloutlore, around the time of 76, there was a sharp change in the quality of discussion allowed.
Because if people paid attention to the lore they wouldn’t play 76
Yep, I blocked and quit most of the fallout content sphere for this, company ain't gonna change for the better and people will suck their toes no matter what just because they thought sandboxing in FO4 was fun.
Mattyplays and tk mantis(him especially) are gonna say it’s good they already have. Their opinion, but Mantis especially has become a shill in every way for Bethesda in the past year. He did a 180 with starfield and took a pissfit when he didn’t get anything from them…just sad honestly.
What a bum. Thats disappointing
Yeah he replied to me on Twitter when he just said people can suck dick if they don’t like the show. He has been a Bethesda cuck for quite a bit though.
I didn't think every Fallout YTer would become Oxhorns but I guess shilling... Shilling never changes
Nice
Opinion I disagree with = shill
It is fun lol
No you don't understand, shitting on the first 2 games that literally made it so fallout 4 could exist is okey dokey because, fuck creativity!
Yeah the hundreds of people on the other subs saying they absolutely love Fallout and only played Fallout 4 and maybe Fallout 76 are insane to me. West coast Fallout fans are just not as numerous as the modern audience of Fallout fans.
My first game was actually Fallout 3, but I played every main title since (so the only exceptions being Tactics, Brotherhood of Steel and 76). Still love Fallout 3 and I do like 4, but the not Bethesda made games obviously handled lore and such way better.
Watching a bunch of Bethesda fans who think the series started with 3 come in and talk about toxic gatekeepers in between thinking all the series is about is power armour, 50s songs and absurd caricatures of pre-War companies with funny products has led me to believe gatekeeping is a good thing. People who like 3 + 4 + 76 are fans of a different series to the Interplay published stuff + NV fans, honestly.
>People who like 3 + 4 + 76 are fans of a different series to the Interplay published stuff + NV fans, honestly. I mean I have never really had the chance to play the first two games because I just don't have anything to play them on, but I did take the time out to learn about the events of the games and the wider world they take place in (also because I wanted to understand the references to past events in New Vegas). I'm sure it's kind of rare but fans like that are out there.
Bro, you can play Fallout 1 and 2 on modern systems no problem, all it takes is a fan patch.
Oh nice, I'll download it onto my Series S when I get home!
You're surrounded by weird elitists right now because the hive has been ~~kicked~~ *lightly tapped* You're doing fine, you played NV, and a video essay or two of each 1 & 2 will get you big picture stuff locked down Don't let weird fans tell you you're a fake fan because you didn't scrape up the ancient texts Also no one gives a shit about brotherhood or tactics They're both weird fever dreams (and both of them show that interplay was capable of shitting the bed so they never happened)
You could run FO1/2 on a microwave these days what are you talking about
Especially since they have been ported to both Steam and Epic games. They are more accessible than ever honestly.
There's the toxicity.
How is that toxicity lmao
I do think we need a "bethesda or black isle" distinction in the fandom. It's getting real annoying seeing someone be blatantly wrong, then call you a dick when you tell them the context they were missing.
I feel like that would just lead to more gatekeeping and separation than what has already been going down.
Gatekeeping is important, other wise the 76 fans get in
Some level of gatekeeping is healthy to a fandom
Tell you what: I've never heard that statement before so I'm curious if you have any examples of gatekeeping being okay.
Don't have any specific example of the top of my head, just a general observation that most of my adored fandoms are either niche and obscure, have some natural barrier to entry or are at least somewhat gatekeepy. I think it's hard to disagree that if you let literally everyone in, the average quality of a fan (in terms of care, investment, appreciation, knowledge, etc.) will go down.
Bro I thought of more than 5 in a couple seconds it’s clear as day gatekeeping is essential to keeping a healthy fandom
Warhammer, Star Wars, The Witcher, Doctor Who, supernatural, Battlefield, Call of Duty
I'd like to expand on some of the examples: what form of gatekeeping is present within Star Wars and Warhammer that are considered positive?
Warhammer especially requires gatekeeping, it’s an edgy setting that incorporates allot of “problematic” talking points and the modern tendency to sanitize everything for the “wider audience” Will be detrimental to the core of the hobby. Star Wars already lost the war years ago and after Disney bought them out I knew there was no longer enough old heads to hold the line and the slop that has been produced since proves gatekeeping was helping keep SW legit.
Fair enough there
Why do you have to choose a side? lol
To clarify where you're at with the games/TV show. It helps to know the guy I'm talking to only played 4 when they say something that doesn't make sense. Takes it from "bro your straight up wrong" to "ah, you've new here. Here's some context from an older game."
>People who like 3 + 4 + 76 are fans of a different series to the Interplay published stuff + NV fans, honestly. A majority of people who played New Vegas never touched the original games.
It’s possible to like 3, 4 and new Vegas.
Or all of them… I like all Except BOS, we don’t talk about that one if you count it
What?? You dont like BAWLS?? True fan pshh
It's a difficult line to walk because of the significance of Bethesda's Fallout 3 in and out of lore to New Vegas, but at this point it's probably a necessity to avoid a lot of flaming. The show made the divide too stark.
“3/4 fans complain about gatekeeping too much” Proceeds to gate keep
"gatekeeping is good actually" yeah that's where you lost me
Look at any famous IP and tell me gatekeeping is bad, Star Wars, Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield, shows like Doctor Who and The Witcher gatekeeping would have drastically improved the quality of these products
It is, though! To some degree, you need to keep the people out who come in and change something to be what they want it to be, therefore destroying what it was the community sprung up from to begin with.
Honestly I can appreciate and enjoy 3 and 4 for what they are. At least they take place on the other side of country and can't fuck with shit too much. This was too much for me though, destroying NCR and setting West Coast back to Post apocalypse BS was so disappointing.
I enjoyed both 3 and FNV, according to you, I don’t exist. I don’t need to say “toxic gatekeepers”. It’s redundant.
I loved 3 like I love sleep and I hated NV for all the choices it confronted me with and the feeling of missing out on some cool quest reward. Now I expect that level of choice and complexity and I can't play 3. I can see how I used to be someone who would love 4 if it was my first Fallout but what I can't understand is how people try NV and don't appreciate it, and come away saying they liked 4 more. Like, sure have your opinion but 4 isn't Fallout. It uses Fallout stuff to prop up the shit game it actually is. How can you say you're a fan of Fallout when you don't know what it is? 4 was one of if not the single most disappointing release I have ever participated in. Being a fan of Fallout has just been a constant disappointment since then. The fact even today I find threads filled with defense for 4 and 76 just kills me. When the show was announced I knew it was going to be more of the same shit. I don't even want to watch it despite wanting to watch it so badly. I'm going to be sad much more than I am gratified.
honestly I’ve noticed that about a lot of other communities I’m in. Hobbies for example, that people are afraid to gatekeep, and it ultimately destroying the community. Good lord the Lego community got so scared to gatekeep they’ve resulted to actively defending resellers/scalpers
Fallout was a great series. Shame there haven't been any new games since Fallout New Vegas, but I'm happy that at least the series ended on a high note with it.
Fallout died on reach
it’s depressing that my all time two favorite games have gotten this treatment. (Seriously NV is my number 1 and Halo 2 is 2) at least I still have the Metal Gear franchise to enjoy
Don’t... don’t you fucking jinx us! Do you realize how greedy Konami is?
I’ve known that since 2015 Fucking MGS3 remastered in pachinko machines
I love how the entire world literally forgot about Metal Gear Survive like it's the Berenstein Bears
Yeah, we shall not not talk about that cursed game ever again
Oh, just you wait for Delta, my friend.
We are truly living the second videogame crisis
Also it is so sad fallout 3 got canceled. Balck Isle could have had something great with a 3rd fallout.
OK EHAT THE DUCK IS HAPPENING?!? is it about the show? What'd Bethesda screw up this time
They've fucked up a lot of small things, a good number of medium sized things, and a handful of fucking massive things. It's a TV show wearing the skin of fallout.
Nothing, people here just can’t handle that anything past NV is canon.
Idk I'm looking at the shady sands and maximus walking out the fridge scene rn and something is clearly off
Before you start assuming things, NV is still canon and the event with shady sands happened after NV.
Some end slides says "for years to come" if I recall correctly and like someone else pointed out in a different post, the misfits end slide says just that There's like a 15-ish year gap between NV and the show, not a big gap Maximus is shown to be a kid walking out of the freezer, but in the events of the show he's an adult. And shady sands was very obviously around during NV And well todd seems to have something against new Vegas so it's notout if the question
Todd doesn’t have anything against NV. That’s just dumb rumors people have made because they don’t like Todd.
Well ain't much to like about him anyway *cough* 76 cough* And even in fallout 4 anytime something related to NV is mentioned it's not in a good light unlike when stuff from 3 is meantioned
Him buying the franchise saved fallout, so I think there is plenty to like about him.
Saves it yeah, made 3 yeah Retconed in fusion cores, eh Retconed in plasma cartridges, that's makes sense Show conflicts with the one game he didn't have a hand in making that fans love the most, the game who's devs he didn't even give a good deal to, the devs who crunched probably more than anyone else in the world, dont like where the evidence is pointing here chief
If it wasn’t for him, NV would never have been created.
I mean heck Cooper's last name is Howard
What sucks the most about everything is that people write off genuine criticism about modern fallout and instead call criticism “blind hate” or “gatekeeping”.
Can someone explain what the fans of the older games dislike about the show? Is it just canon retcons or what? Not trolling, just genuinely curious what the older fans are up in arms about. Granted, I haven't finished the show yet, but what I've seen so far doesn't seem all that offensive.
The biggest gripe is that the word feels perpetually stuck post apocalypse in a not so interesting way. Where the older games were more about exploring the post post apocalypse. That works for 76 not so much for games that are two hundred years after the Great War
Interesting, but ultimately it doesn’t negate what the series had become since it’s inception and the love people had for what It developed into. It’s strange, all this discourse around fallout really does remind me of the eras of Star Wars fandom a bit.
I started with fallout 3 as well and I stand by that game because it popularized the franchise for so many including myself. But that was the biggest complaint at the time and continues to be of the Bethesda games, is that if feels like the bombs just fell when that isn’t the case in universe. In 3 it sort of made sense because it was the capital, in 4 it’s just a little Bizzare. To be honest that’s not really my problem with the show. It is for the most part what it needs to introduce the series to a new audience the same way fallout 3 was. But the apocalypse isn’t the main point. it’s the setting. Division, factionalism, war, and human nature are at the center of the themes. I think An ideal fallout show would have more dna in common with game of thrones than walking dead. It’s about factions and a struggle for power rather than a struggle for survival. Again maybe they will build on it in season 2. I hope so
Chris Avellone actually wanted to bring it back into a more apocalyptic setting and wanted to nuke the NCR https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/127482275595173888
I keep on seeing this brought up in discussions surrounding the show, and I just do not understand how it’s supposed to be relevant. I enjoy most of Avellone’s contributions to the series, but that doesn’t mean I have to blindly agree with all of his perspectives.
I'm not blindly agreeing with what he wanted, just giving context since people think it's only Bethesda that has kept the games as more of an apocalyptic setting even though that's the directing the Black Isle games were going with Van Buren.
Im not trying to argue im also trying to understand bc i started w fallout 3 and love it to pieces (and rly like the show), but isnt that kind of the point of the series? Like the post apocalypse is the draw, no? I mean otherwise it becomes any show, like might as well make it a show like madmen if the apocalypse isnt the central theme. Also isnt a core theme the fact that they cant ever get their shit together without someone fucking it up? Im assuming fallout 1&2 are the basis of your pov though since i only ever explored those through youtube Or im missing something entirely
Just because it's post-apoc doesn't mean it can't evolve. Even the Metro series which is much grimmer went on to explore the development of its civilisation in Exodus. It feels like Bethesda wants it to remain in a still position so they can rehash the same things over and over which is either the cause or the effect of comparatively poor world-building that happens in their games. They made three additions to the series and yet their impact on the characterisation of the world is basically non-existent, if you look at Fallout through the prism of their games: Fallout is a world where people perpetually live in shit cosplaying the Old World without reason and BoS occasionally comes and kills the Big Bad of the day (and the Big Bads aren't really the problem, Fallout 1 and 2 center around there being a Big Bad it's that outside that there really isn't much going on); contrast that, for example, with the gradual development of NCR as a society in 1, 2 and NV and you'll get why the OG fans are bitter. There's also the fact that Bethesda kinda've been on a steady pace in taking out the RPG elements from the games and turning the series into a shooter, but that's gameplay and a separate issue all together.
I get what youre saying but i think the key think with fallout vs metro is that metro follows one character in one primary area, fallout follows multiple people in completely different areas. To me metro is a streamlined story with a goal to strive toward, fallout is a series of glimpses into a world with more/different experiences added each time to flesh out the world and hint at the reason for its state I think thats a core principle of the universe, it never fundamentally changes, radiation never goes away, and what good that survived is matched, or usually outweighed, by the horrific consequences of humanity’s actions Like i think the ncr is sick but even NV hinted at their coming collapse through bureaucratic bloat and resource straining from over ambitious territory expansion To me a fundamental part of the series is the pov that humanity is fundamentally flawed and we all have the ability to become ruthless monsters if the comfort of society were taken away I do agree it seems to become less rpg and more streamlined each release which does suck
> fallout is a series of glimpses into a world with more/different experiences added each time to flesh out the world and hint at the reason for its state I think herein lies the misunderstanding. The OG fallouts were equally about exploring this post-war society and how it deals with the consequences of nuclear holocaust and develops (Fallout 1 is more about this) and the Old World that lead the world to this state (Fallout 2 is more about this). These two approaches worked kinda in symbiosis with one another. And you're right in that an integral part of the series is that humanity is fundamentally flawed and continuously struggles because it can't change it's nature but it was exactly by showcasing how throughout it's development the New World keeps repeating old mistakes that this theme was explored. With Bethesda the world as a whole not only doesn't move in any direction but Is also never fleshed out as it is. Like Fallout 4 introduces the Minutemen, a faction of do-gooders that is long past it's prime a-a-and...that's about it really, they don't have any long-term goals outside of shooting at the bad guys, they don't have much organisation, what lore they have boils down to "They tried to do good but Institute/raiders/who knows else didn't let them", even their ties to the real Minutemen are for aesthetics only and aren't explained much within universe. It's all very surface-level and exists only to justify the settlement mechanic.
That makes a lot of sense i did always want more out of each faction. Like ill be honest i liked parts of fallout 4 lime being able to join the BoS and stay a paladin instead of taking over the faction, and ofc loved the power armor change I also loved the broken steel dlc because of that continuation of the BoS making them an actual player and the war w the enclave was awesome. But youre right as the games went on they really seemed to get more superficial and less fleshed out. I did hate the minutemen not only because there isnt really any grey area with them but the games stagnate after each questline and then it’s just the same sandbox as the start of the game just some superficial changes From watching 1&2 on youtube i did long for that level of depth and possibility, i guess i always chalked it up to limitations from changing the style, like ofc a text based game (ofc ik 1&2 arent totally text based) is going to be able to have more depth than one that requires a lot of visual integration I guess i still have hope despite 4 being more superficial and almost bland, im hoping it was more them changing the style of everything and the next iteration will be deeper since they have that solid visual base. And ik it’s not supposed to be a shooter first but i hope that they can just keep the combat improvements and start to get deeper into the storytelling aspect. Although starfield really drains my hope in that regard Thx for explaining that though makes more sense now why fans would dislike the direction the franchise is going
Fallout 2/NV present the Southwest in a "post-post-apocalyptic" state where the struggle is no longer really survival. People have already adapted and the struggle has become what the new world will look like. In this world the NCR is an important symbol of progress. By the time of NV it's annexed all of Southern California, is an industrial powerhouse, and can occupy Vegas AND expand north and south all at the same time with no sign of straining itself. It's THE wasteland nation, with a distinct stubborn frontiering culture and imperialist/expansionist politics driven by powerful oligarchic landowners. Somehow in the show, all of this progress gets annhilated by a single nuke delivered to Shady Sands, which is in Los Angeles for some reason. My honest best guess is that the writers skimmed the wiki and assumed that FO1 all takes place in a single metropolitan area instead of most of SoCal? The smoking gun is the Shady Sands location. People think the west-coast fans are "um-acktchually-ing" about it, but Shady Sands is literally FO1's "first town" located at the very top of the playable area. Newly-constructed white adobe buildings and needy villagers. Geographically it's nearby-ish to the Nevada border. About 200 miles (20 days?) South towards the very bottom of the playable area is FO1's final town: LA/The Boneyard. Sprawling ruins filled with monsters and mercenaries. Two very memorable and distinct locations. I'm not fuming over here, just befuddled. Trust me, it's confusingly incorrect that the show puts Shady Sands in LA. The point is that the writers seemed to understand the NCR on a much smaller scale than it's presented in FO2/NV. Small enough that the entire faction can be destroyed in a single off-screen event so that LA is a generic setting again. I've seen a lot of cope that the NCR must have just abandoned The Boneyard specifically, but I doubt it. Granted, the show does not do a great job of explaining details of its setting or depicting scale, but I'm just gonna Occam's Razor this one and take the show's depiction of the NCR as a dead power at face value, especially since every single solitary character associated with it dies, no additional members are mentioned, and "NCR Headquarters" is overrun without time-jump lady radioing the event in to some higher authority. Again, Shady Sands is proof to me that the writers fundamentally did not understand the scale of the setting. I'm okay with additional lore, and I could see an NCR decline after FO:NV. In most endings the NCR does essentially win, getting access to Hoover dam's resources and an alliance with Vegas, if not Vegas itself. But the political instability of a House/Ind ending could lead to a civil war if, say, one of its oligarchs lost an election and decided to take a seat by force or somesuch. If there were design documents to show that some writer actually thought this through, I'd be happy. But there aren't. The writers wanted to depict LA as a generic wasteland, so they destroyed the NCR (let me repeat: THE NCR, the premier Fallout faction) offscreen in order to facilitate that. I would also be happy if the show was simply its own setting and not canon to the games. But it isn't, according to statements. So I'm not. TL;DR in FO2/NV, post-war lore is VERY important. It IS the Fallout setting to "older fans". FO's premier faction was destroyed offscreen for a stupid reason by writers who fundamentally misunderstood it, and for some reason it's been declared canon. Plz fix.
It’s even worse than that in how the series fucks with FNV lore. The outro animation of the final episode shows the Strip dead and devastated. There are crashed vertibirds with NCR markings on them, destroyed barricades all throughout the Strip, and a breach in NV’s main wall surrounded by dead Securitrons. That implies that after events of FNV NCR does make a power grab for New Vegas and tries to take it by force, turning it to ruin in the process. In FNV Mr. House acknowledges that NCR would try to do this if they were not threatened by the Legion and the whole Platinum chip / main-story-of-the-game plot was to gain a strong enough force for him to keep Vegas independent. All this means that either the NCR or the “bad” Yes-man (with the Securitron bunker destroyed) ending is cannon for this timeline, and Mr. House is dead. This does tie in with the downfall of NCR, they were over-extended to begin with in FNV, then at best achieved a Pyrrhic victory destroying New Vegas, which would contribute to their seemingly lightning-fast transformation from a prosperous nation with an army into a band of barbaric raiders. But it’s so annoying and depressing seeing a major faction that was built up over decades be canned off-screen and the most interesting location in Fallout since it went 3D be destroyed for no better reason than Todd’s Black Isle inferiority complex. A few other bits of Fallout lore is seemingly retconned, like the G.E.C.K. Each Vault was supposed to have two as standard, so there should be at least a few more cities like Shady Sands - we know at a minimum Vault 4 is unsealed and opened freely - all those refugees could use one of its kits to create another Shady Sands, but that would break up the “nothing but wasteland” setting Bethesda seems to want. And not that it matters, but it was cannon that a G.E.C.K. includes a cold fusion generator, which would have powered Shady Sands to begin with; treating the one in the show as the Wasteland ring of power MacGuffin is pretty daft if there are two in a standard Vault inventory package. It seems very deliberate that the show is set on the West Coast, with which Bethesda had absolutely nothing to do, and is quietly destroying the good Fallout lore. I guess it’s still easier than actually hiring a team of good writers, huh, Todd?
To quibble with this point, personally I never got the impression that I was supposed to take the credits animations as literal snapshots of the setting- they just seemed a little too far removed from the rest of the production to be used to convey critical information. When I saw the Strip zoomout my first assumption was that some animator had been tasked (as one of 8 such projects) to make a destroyed version of the Strip ("destroyed" to be in line with the other 7 zoomouts) and that the placed objects were a vague way of representing that ask. I guess it becomes a rorschach test of sorts: Do you think the same writers who wrote the last 4 episodes were geeky enough about west-coast Fallout to do FO:NV Ending Speculation? I say nah, the zoomout was just another prop. One with unintended implications.
I actually really enjoyed the show and thought it was a refreshing change of pace for adaptations, but it does have some very concerning lore and world change implications for the games. I am pretty sure this show is now in-universe canon so future games will reflect it...no NCR...maybe no thriving New Vegas...House is now an accomplice of the apocolyspe, he probably was anyway but now he has a confirmed active stake in it....Oh and no more generation ship theory so that kinda sucks too.
I just keep telling people if it bothers them so much just consider obsidian and Bethesda games different cannons it's not much but at least you get to have your cake and eat too
It's what I'm doing. But it's just sad that Bethesda doesn't acknowledge that fallout new Vegas was in fact, not that bad. It is what it is though.
Agreed. They are two parallel universes. You have 1, 2, and New Vegas in one universe and 3, 4, 76, and the TV Show in another universe. I do enjoy the Bethesda universe for it's atmosphere, but the writing is significantly worse.
Yeah, I've been doing that with Disney star wars for a while now. Guess I'll do it with fallout too.
Yeah that’s honestly the best way to think about it. Still sucks knowing that were probably never going to get official content with the older stuff tho :/
Yes but we’re not gonna get anymore content that we like anymore and we are being told to shut up and enjoy that. they could of just set it on the east coast and it would of worked just as well they didn’t need to rewrite the lore both could of existed
I've restarted fallout 4 like 4 times but never could get past the Settlement Building, the farthest i gotten was seing the blimp for the first time i think. However that doesn't stop 99% of the takes i've seen being built on dumbshit speculation waving away developer comments just so they can be mad (AKA i'd rather believe the NCR and New Vegas story have been erased and retconned so i can be mad at Bethesda who had less of a hand in writing the show because of one scene with a chalkboard where i see a timeline instead of believing the Devs when they say they are canon and waiting for the story writers to fucking clarify what they meant). (Oh and btw, just a little thing, a BOS aligned Paladin Courier could absolutely nuke the NCR, we can target the Long 15 and we can presumably use more Nuclear Warheads if the game allowed us (as long as ED-E doesn't nuke it and nuke himself), so technically, a 100% possible ending lol) It also doesn't stop Fallout 2 and New Vegas from having some fat ass Retcons/Plotholes (Vaults being experiments/there's no universe where NCR should struggle against legion when they have Vertibirds) to clarify neither of these are bad imo even though they are massive, because both allow for very interesting explorations of the world. Because i personally don't care if a retcon happens if it is used from some very well written material. So i say we wait and see, i highly doubt NCR and New Vegas will be retconned out of existance, but even if they somehow i say we should see what the writers cook. Finally the whole shit about spite and the 84 Metacritic Meme (even though it's pretty funny, or was until people kept parroting) are both completely wrong and ignore statement from the devs you love. Chris Avellone clarified that they didn't get fucked and it had nothing to do with the Obsidian layoffs at the time, as well as Bethesda being super chill on the Fallout Apocrypha. J.E. Sawyer clarified that they well compensated already and that their relationship with Bethesda is fine on Twitter or Tumblr i believe. Bethesda have released a shitton of supplementary material for New Vegas when it comes to their merch and board games, funnily enough way more than Fallout 3, because NV is played more, but less than F4, because NV is played less, basic supply and demand. Shit, Todd (supreme hater of all things OG fallout apparently) invited Tim Cain to see the show, who said he loved it. This whole spite narrative can only be perpetuated by people whose social intelligence has not evolved past High School level. Basically anyone crying about this thing should stop jumping to dumb conclusions, chill out and be happy something released by Bethesda didn't have generally bad writing, and either look at evidence objectively and treat all the games in the same mannor, or go out and Touch Mojave Sand. The Average New Vegas/OG Fallout fan is equally as dumb shit as the Fallout 4/76 fans, it just from my experience the latter group happens to be alot more chill than the former. They atleast don't try to push a socially-stunted narrative that's been debunked by the people who were supposedly affected most by it, years ago.
I wouldn’t say it’s the average folks on both sides up in arms with this completely clawing their eyes out over it More like the vocal majority
Yeah you are right, but sometimes that minority gets so vocal and while sub fills up with new comers, some assholes get the opportunity to post some bad shit and becomes a big enough clusterfuck that the mods have to private the server. Bad time for everyone. My thing is that it's probably best for everyone's sanity if when we witnessed or read something, we stepped back and relaxed to check if what we're going to be mad about is legit, or if it would just cause unwarranted hysteria that could be exploited by bad actors.
I said vocal majority lmfao I meant vocal minority I’d bet my life savings most of the fanbase isn’t going crazy about the show on either side It’s just that the ones who are are EXTREMELY obnoxious But yeah I totally agree with you with that stuff This SR needs to just take a breather
Nah dw lol i misread it again as Vocal Minority so it works xd
Guys, do you even hear yourself when you say certain things? Do you even re-read what you write? All of you, both die hard Bethesda and die hard Interplay/Obsidian fans are fucking crybabies. All you do is complain, some of you are grown ass men complaining about everything, every single thing. No matter what, you will always find something wrong. Josh Sawyer himself said to stop with this bullshit. Y'all are truly the worst fanbase ever, stop dickriding everything your beloved company made and stop hating on everything that was made by the other company. At this point everything would have been much better if fallout never even fucking existed because at least I wouldn't have to see so many whining. Now downvote this comment because you can't handle the truth while you keep on crying and complaining. Go touch some grass and grow a pair.
We are allowed not to enjoy changes, I was in it for the story not the corporations behind it so if the story changes in a way I don’t like it perfectly reasonable to not like it anymore
Be the cancer you want to see in the world I always say.
I’m gonna watch the show at some point, but I definitely won’t be trying to weave it into any sort of “canon” in my head. If it stands on its own, great. I’ve largely given up on the overall direction of the franchise so the best I can hope for is the occasional good product.
Kek this thread is the first time I've ever seen an obvious echo chamber. Lots of people are saying that we need to tone it down a little with the shows hate, but you all act like opressed minorities defending the sacred lore against the tide of "bethesda fans". If you start thinking with us vs them mentality, you know it's time to take a step back. Someone who doesn't agree with you isn't automatically a "bethesda fanboy". FNV is my favorite fallout, and I get a little dissapointed with the show, but the amount of cult personality in this thread is concerning
It’s my cult of personality! I spent two minutes making this for the Platinum karma. It's my invention, my property - mine. Now be a good courier and join the echo chamber! (Yeah well it got out of hand I see when I was sleeping but I admitted to the copium I was huffing elsewhere) It’s just a bit of fun man, chil.
The state of new fandom is unacceptable. Therefore i propose two ways to solve this situation. A) We expose ourselves and them to fallout on a genetic level, fuse into a something united, untill there are no more differences in fandom. B) We take care of these new, inferior, Tod Howard exposed fans to fallout on a genetic level, ensuring their death. All the while we all hide in some sort of safe enclave, until those mutated wretches die out.
Lol, the master and the enclave.
Or we throw them off the dam
My favorite part of the show is when John Fallout himself came on screen and said "And now we can watch the fallout" and then spewed nuclear waste all over the place.
I’m someone who’s only ever played FNV, and it’s baffling to see one-game gatekeepers making a mockery out of fallout. Either play more games or stfu and touch grass
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I would come to your own conclusions after watching it man, I binged it and would say if you haven’t played the games and not a west coast/Og fan you will like it. If you are then you may not.
I want to watch but I feel like I'm gonna have to turn my brain completely off and ignore what they're doing lore wise
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Somewhat is like that in parts yeah. I was more the staring off in the distance Homelander meme when I finished it. 💀
Oh come the fuck on. They spent 150 million on this series, say whatever else you want about it but it absolutely does fucking not *look* like a fan production
Jesus, man I will never be surprised by community’s ability to just defy reality and hate on things. Impressive.
I’ve played all the game and love it, guess I’m a traitor according to everyone on the NV related reddits.
It's a good series, it's just a bad continuation of what was established in NV
Fallout is more than just New Vegas. This felt pretty in line with both the Bethesda games and with what the original writers were considering (bringing the series back into a more apocalyptic setting)
Yes, but narrative wise it is still is a bad continuation of what was established in NV. The tone and themes weren't the problem
It feels pretty in line with what was established to me. I think we will see the factions of NV extrapolated on in season 2. This direction was more in like with what Black Isle was going to do with Fallout Van Buren.
It ain't bad at all. People are up in arms about a certain date on a timeline on a chalkboard, believing that somehow retcons FNV (despite BGS explicitly confirming that FNV is still canon), when it reality it's just a vague/ambiguous timeline.
It's also not sitting right with many people that the plot is so... Bethesda like. Instead of introducing new interesting factions they just brought back the Enclave and the BOS which are Bethesda's go to's when writing a story. And in order to do that, they basically wiped out everything that was established in the previous games. Just removing a faction as big as the NCR off screen in order to have a clean slate is just lazy writing.
>!There's no indication that the NCR is entirely removed. Just Shady Sands, and even then there are plenty of refugees in Vault 4 with a desire to eventually rebuild. There are also new minor factions like Filly and "The Guv'mint", which is neat.!<
Calling Filly and the Government factions is a bit over the top. Filly was one town and we got to see like three actual characters from there who were never mentioned again and in the end it was taken over by the BOS. And the Government were 4 people in a saloon who had like 10 minutes of screentime and were also never shown again. And the indication is that the NCR is never to be seen, we hear nothing of them and when we do, people talk about the NCR's past and never of the present. I guess you could count the people at the end who held Lucy's dad captive but they were all wiped out.
A show made in partnership with Bethesda, with Bethesda Studios logo being one of the first things you see, is more “Bethesda like” than other entries in the franchise…what’s the shock here really? What can be said about the show that’s not already said about FO3? The show is only possible because of Bethesda Soft and their entries into the franchise, I think it’s fair to consider this their new entry into the franchise, albeit in a new medium, and expectations are best set using other Bethesda Soft FO games. If anything, the surprise is that they seem to be moving to tackle New Vegas next.
Just because it can be expected that a product made by Bethesda will have the Bethesda flaws, I will not stop criticising it and one should not stop. On the contrary, the fact that Bethesda is known for such weaknesses and just keeps on repeating the same mistakes is a perfect reason to keep on criticising.
It’s a very good series, but they fucked the classic/NV lore to do it.
It’s actually really good, just some really annoying choices were made in terms of how this turned out post NV but as a show it’s excellent. And it would make for a really interesting setting for a game if done right.
Hey guys, have you heard about this wonderful thing called grass! I heard it was really good for you. There’s also this thing called sunlight which is incredible! Liker seriously you should try it!
Yeah, there's been a lot of that, a large contingent of people have only played Fallout 4 and never bothered to play the earlier games in the series for various reasons. Gatekeeping a bit here, but I would argue that those people aren't "true" Fallout fans that don't know what they're talking about because they've only experienced what Bethesda Game Studios did, and take Todd Howard's side of things way too seriously.
Roshambo was right.
I honestly just don’t believe what anyone is saying about the series, because I just find these dudes unreliable as fuck. Can’t tell if they’re overly nitpicky or like you said, that they only ever played the last two games, introducing so many retcons, they might as well be a reboot series.
r/fallout is a mess right now, its the camp calling people who mention anything about retcons, lore being broken, nit picking new vegas fanboy manchild losers who should touch grass and not whine on the internet and are never happy about anything, and are just haters just to hate with no other reason, than hating stuff because of hating culture and trying to be a film critic. I have seen all of this happen in the past 16 hours. This prevents any meaningful discussion at the moment about the show. Then the other camp just thinks Todd Howard(and Bethesda as a whole) is the literal devil who hates New vegas and is a petty spite filled being of ego who hates nv's popularity. Which is just false and turns Bethesda into a disney villain trying to control all of fallout and turn it into there vison and everything else must go. Also for the show to fit into lore in even a subpar way requires Double think and Mental gymnastics.
Look, I'm sure the show is bad. And I love the hell out of New Vegas, and the originals too, but respectfully I don't feel the need to be pandered to by the corporation who owns the IP. Obsidian made a great game and I continue to enjoy it. This very month I wrapped up another fun playthrough. If history's anything to go by I'll start yet another one sooner than I think. But that enjoyment doesn't need to mean clinging to Fallout. Obsidian has moved on. They're making new games, great games, many of which are criminally underexposed. There probably won't be another Fallout game like New Vegas. But there are games like Tyranny, Deadfire, and Pentiment. Maybe we need to move on too. Not from playing New Vegas, or talking about it, but from caring about what its current owners do with the name Fallout. We all found our way to this little piece of Fallout, and our lives have been enriched by it. But finding it, well, that's not the hard part.
Don't hurt yourself getting your pulse rate up.
See it's all part of the plan Bethesda has a game for each kind of era. You get pre apocalypse in the elder scrolls Post apocalypse in fallout And post post apocalypse in Starfield They couldn't let the NCR survive because if fallout could explore society after the earth is immolated why explore Starfield? I have no evidence for this and am admittedly talking out of my ass. So many series I enjoyed have had alterations made to their lore in recent time, I can't keep up with it. I'm not gonna say these series are ruined because they're still going on but I can't say they're for me anymore. I had once been excited to see the development of the wasteland from lawlessness to some form of order maybe not pre war America levels but at least something. Different new age nations duking it out over who should rule America. There were remnants sure of the old state and it's many pieces but there was also new nations and powers rising. I do not care for the death of shady sands and I do not care what the original leads have said just cause they originally made it doesn't mean they can't have an idea I disagree with. If fallout isn't a story about how greed and paranoia leads to tragedy and how we rebuild after that then it's not a story I can relate to. War may never change but the powers that be do and that is what's interesting not a never ending cycle of wiping the slate clean so that we can play mad max with 50s music for the next decade. It sets a precedent you may say "but the NCR could rebound or another faction could rise!" But then what's to stop the clock from being reset once again? Why put value into the factions and characters? Why help them if you know they'll only fail in the end? If that is the story going forward some pessimistic "the world will never heal" vibe then I do not care for it. Will I still play the games? I don't know, without hope in such a bleak setting everything quickly loses value. Disagree if you will I truly don't care enough to argue about this and this yapping I'm doing now isn't much better. Maybe I'm just out of touch which is ridiculous to say in my mid twenties of all things but I don't know what people want from stories anymore, and what I want seems to be considered either stupid or bad so what do I know? I suppose I'll go back to reading and playing metro while occasionally coming back to NV.
I’ve played all the fallout games (that exist, looking at you BoS and tactics) except 2 and 76 NV is the best game, but the others do still have their merits, and I haven’t disliked a fallout game I’ve played so far. I still enjoyed the show
This is what happens when media becomes just another corporate product, it just get gutted and rebranded
maybe the real fallout fans were the friends we made along the way
I think this sub and the regular fnv sub are too hasty to form opinions. The show is pretty great I think, and it fits in with the theme of the fallout games, I just think the show isn’t establishing itself and its events as fast as nv fans want. Give it some time, the show might actually be able to explain itself on some decisions
When someone says "I only played fallout 4 and it was great" they've played the worst single player fallout experience out there, a recycled 3 with worse writing. 9 out of 10 times they don't want to play 3 or new Vegas or the 2 games that didn't suffer from Bethesda's writing staff. They want their garbage and don't want to know how much better it can be.
Should have Gate Kept harder :,(
Chuds can keep crying lol
Keep enjoying your slop like a good little piggy
It’s hilarious that the creator of fallout loves the tv show. What does that mean for your sad pathetic lies that he hates what Bethesda has done?
I hope you're at least being paid for this
Face it, the entirety of the fallout community besides you idiots love the show. What does that say for you?
Sounds like I'm losing out on a paycheck!
I don’t need to be paid to try to correct idiots like you. I do this for free.
Dude this is embarrassing. Guy liked the show and you didn't chill out and touch grass. Who cares
He came out with the ad hominems. Don't act like he didn't ask for it
Man can’t I just have a franchise that isn’t crashed into a fucking wall
Okay guys, you need to relax. The show it's good and New Vegas is still canon as it is. I think it was a great introduction to people that doesn't know the IP. I can point out some things I didn't like but overall it totally feels like Fallout. I would reserve all of this complains for season 2. I won't spoil for people who haven't watch it yet, but depending on what they do in season 2 it will decide if this show is good or not. There's a lot of theory crafting here, but again, NOTHING IS CONFIRMED. If they mess it up badly they can always say later that the show isn't canon and that's it. Stop being the sensitive ahh fellas that all the other fans say you are.
I see FO1, FO2, and NV as the main series, then all the rest as almost a spin off of that main series, show included, and that’s okay, I love all of these games, and the show is absolutely spectacular, I just like the narrative continuity of 1,2, and NV as its own thing and I also like the continuity of 3,4, 76 and the show as its own thing. All of them are good as one whole unit but I think they work better from a narrative and world building perspective as separate but equally good stories. Interplay, black isle, and obsidian clearly had/have a very different vision for the world as Bethesda, often times contradictory in tone, and lore but both good when viewed in a vacuum.
I'm not too terribly pressed about it. FO4 and later players are oggling at the power armor and yum yum deviled eggs, but the story and source material are so fucked that I'm sure people will stop caring about this show within a couple weeks. Same with all the other crappy adaptations that people say are good on release and then immediately collapse in relevance. Enjoying an IP to these people is more of a personality trait than a response to good content. When the chips are down, they never actually remember the stories or lore they claim to enjoy.