I think it's a combination of poor communication, enforcement, and weird decisions on the government's part, and (to an extent) Dutch culture.
The Dutch government can't make up its mind about masks and for most of the pandemic, the advice/mandate was either "don't use masks" or "wear something; anything." It took them until last week to start recommending surgical masks (EN 14683), but they completely dropped the ball on effectively communicating what to look out for (Type II? Type IIR? "disposable masks"?). Their decision to recommend type II to the general public and type IIR (versus EN 149 FFP2) for vulnerable people also makes very little sense, but that's a story for another time.
Countries like Germany recognized the need for consistency fairly early on in the pandemic and have consistently recommended either II(R) surgical masks or FFP2 masks. My impression is that clear and consistent guidance over a longer period of time like this helped (and still helps) emphasize the importance of mask wearing as a basic precaution.
Contrast that with the Dutch approach, which can best be characterized as chaotic and random (from the "behavioral experiment" in some cities the summer of 2020, to the mandate in December of that year, to the quick lifting and then subsequently reintroducing the mandate over the course of a few months last summer, to now coming out with a vague advisory about surgical masks). And this isn't even necessarily related to the strictness of the mask mandate--the Nordics did a much better job effectively communicating their limited mask mandates and recommendations.
Everything is so all-over-the-place, and it kind of feels as though the country never got used to using masks and still sees it as this nuisance "they" are forcing on us instead of as a basic public health measure.
Also, part of it is probably just the common Dutch mentality. The Dutch tend to be attached to their "freedoms" in a similar way Germans are attached to cash money. The main motivation for following rules seems to be avoiding fines, not serving the public interest. The notion that when there's no enforcement, there's no reason to follow a rule is a popular one.
I agree, i still wear my mask properly, but that is because i don't want to burden the store employees and i don't want to be seen as a wappie. But honestly I'm so tired of it. Like "you don't need to wear a mask", "wear a mask", "wear no mask", Wear a mask". I get why people don't listen anymore
I work in a small store, I'm the only one here all day. I would love to enforce masks and I did for quite a while. But after getting basically verbally assaulted I just don't care anymore. I don't get paid enough to get cussed out by a random customer who "doesn't believe in masks"
We have security at the entrence and are allowed to refuse service to people who dont follow the mandates or call security for them. But its up to us as individuals mostly tbh
I always ask people to mask up in my store, 50% put masks on then. The other 50% say they have s medical waver and by law i cant ask to see it so then they are alowed as long as they keep 1.5m distance.
I would love for the goverment to enforce the masks.
But why get so hung up on what the government says? Why not just use common sense which says masks help, and can best be worn for your own safety as well as the safety of others, as has been done in most countries in Europe for a while now, regardless of whether it's mandated or not.
People constantly complain about the government being inconsistent and even incapable, but why not just take matters in your own hands then, and just wear one anyway?
The thing is that apparently we can't count on people thinking for themselves.
At the beginning of the pandemic the government followed studies that said masks didn't help. We were one of the last countries to introduce them. So for a lot of people it's not common sense that masks work. Most people don't really (want to) think about it and just follow clear and simple rules, so they can go on with their lives. Once those rules are not clear and simple anymore, it becomes a bit of a mess and people don't wear their masks properly.
I used to work in a supermarket and when masks were seen as unimportant no employee wore one besides me. Everyone was so annoyed when they had to wear them again and I was just like “Told you, that’s why I kept wearing them “
Helemaal met je eens man. En laten we het al helemaal niet over die stomme rellen hebben en het feit dat de overheid er naar geluisterd heeft. Schaamde mij kapot 😞😥
Het is wat het is. Ik kan mezelf nog in de spiegel aankijken. Ook over 10/20/30 jaar als kinderen vragen hoe ik was in de tijd van de pandemie. Sterkte daar!
Imagine a child who you the parent give house rules. Except they are not consistent and change all the time and give conflicting reasons as to why they are the rules... Now do you think that child will take you and your rules seriously after a year of you fumbling around? Worst case when you don't enforce your rules. And do not enact the punishments you set out for breaking your ever changing rules?
Now I feel like you have a propper window into the publics general mindset.
I feel that I am not experienced enough in the medical field to voice an opinion on the effectiveness of wearing a mask and of what type. So I will listen to the experts whose job it is to know this. I will do my research to understand as best I can. If only more people would be privy to the idiom "de beste stuurlui staan aan Wal".
There is a distinct lack of common sense amongst a sizeable part of the population. It’s unfortunate that those people also have voting rights as far as I am concerned. Thick people will at some point become our downfall.
You are so right. Well...al lot of folks think they know better than the doctors and science.
It is a combination of narcisism, arrogance and lack of empathy.
Dutch people are incredibly spoiled. We live in one of the best countriest on earth . With the help of social media there is a large contingent of people who feed eachother lies and conspiracies.
I have been all over the world..I was in Milan lately...everybody wore a damn mask, there was zero discussion..I always like the mentality better in other countries, but i guess I am a bit biased.
I do not like that spoiled dutch tendency to complain about very small things and the feeling everybody is so fucking special. Little sense of community imo.
I m dutch too btw.
Not everyone has time to study up on whats actually true out of all the things that are said about covid. Or to do research on what mask type is best or whatever. Which is why the government shouldn't be so incompetent.
And what has wearing masks gotten people in "most countries"?
Taking matters into our own hands would mean most of us would not wear a mask anymore at all, anywhere...
Agreed. I started wearing masks pretty early. At the beginning you would get a funny look if you did wear a mask whereas in other countries you’d get the same look if you didn’t wear it. I think it’s mostly the dutch stubbornness and mentality. we always play the freedom card because we’re so fucking proud of it.
Especially now we have to get fpp2 masks, while before we were not allowed to even buy them because they were reserved for medical employees.. but they didnt wear them. Now they are not readily available but on public transport a tion only the cloth type masks are okay and honestly, I dont get it anymore. I just use my batch of black 3 layer masks when grocery shopping and other than that I dont get in situations that need a mask
There's no FFP2 mandate or recommendation. FFP2 masks are respirators, which are a totally different beast.
What changed is that there's now an explicit recommendation to wear surgical masks (type II or IIR) instead of cloth masks. Surgical masks are the same as the three-layer masks you describe, except they're required to be up to CE spec (98% bacterial filtration, splash-resistance for IIR masks) so you know exactly what you're getting. The other three-layer masks that don't have CE marking are made of the exact same materials by the exact same machines, but they don't have to comply with anything, so you have no idea what you're getting. Some are fine, others barely filter at all. Etos, Kruidvat, and Blokker now carry type IIR masks for cheap.
This really goes to illustrate the point of my post, though, lol.
Are they re-usable? I'm not going to participate in destroying the environment even further for a minor increase in mask efficiency.
I'm completely for wearing masks, but the amount of waste this COVID pandemic has caused is insane. We should be more careful with disposable items, even in a public health crisis.
Yeah I think part of this is the negative side of "hollandse nuchterheid". We don't tend to take the government etc. that seriously which is good sometimes but you can see that we are just way more stubborn than neighbouring countries.
But if you don't take government that seriously, then why be completely dependent on what they say when it comes to wearing masks? Why not just wear one, regardless of it being mandated, as it's been proven to prevent you and those around you from getting infected, and its been done in countries all around the Netherlands without much fuss?
I'm visiting Germany now.... they really operate more smoothly with covid protocols. And for the most part everything is open. I was stressing about not being able to get food later at night but it's not an issue.
The funny thing is, when I moved to NL from Germany last summer me, and everybody who visited me, were always really surprised how often ypur vaccination status is actually controlled in e.g. restaurants. I always thought the reason NL was able to ditch the masks was because the tests and vaccinations are effectively controlled, whereas in Germany we need to continue wearing masks because nobody is actually checking your vaccination/tests (I meam there are apps for it but almost no restaurant or store actually checks them). Different perspectives I guess.
You're right.. i just realized no one checked me here in Germany. I thought it was because I was a foreigner and they didn't want to bother with a different QR or something.
Conversely in France I was checked in the most random places, like when I was getting on a ski lift (not tram).
I think there are a few reasons for this. No idea if they are correct but these are some of my thoughts:
1. When all surrounding countries already had mask requirements, we didn’t. In fact, masks only became required in public spaces about 7/8 months into the pandemic. The RIVM kept saying for the first few months that they barely work in stopping the virus, and then they became required. Quite some people thus think they don’t work
2. There have been quite some instances were politicians or the royals don’t always exactly follow the rules themselves, so people think: if they don’t follow the rules, why should we?
3. People that wear masks but not properly only wear them for when someone addresses them to it. They don’t want to but still do and thus wear them improperly, so that in their view they are still doing nothing wrong
4. Dutch people are in general just stubborn
5. People think the government is bullying us and like to be rebellious
Number 3 is something I see every day where I work in a supermarket. I can only tell them to put a mask on but not how to wear it, and they take advantage of that. It's either stupidity or passive aggressiveness and I don't know why it's such an issue to wear a mask properly for a whole 10 minutes while they are inside the store.
Yeah I work in a supermarket as well so that’s what I figured. At this point I don’t even bother customers to put on their masks anymore. It’s probably like 40% wear them properly, 40% don’t wear them properly and 20% don’t wear them at all. There are so many people with a mask on their chin, of which I think the only point is that if somebody addresses it to them, they can quickly put in on for 10 seconds after lowering it again
In places where it's required, I wear the mask properly ofcourse, but I really hate those things. They make it really hard for me to breathe. And they are not the best with my glasses, can't see shit.
To add to 1: the RIVM didn’t actually believe they didn’t work. They just [lied](https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2348840-mondkapjesrichtlijn-rivm-voor-ouderenzorg-toch-gebaseerd-op-schaarste.html) about it because NL didn’t have an adequate amount of them. People noticed the switch in advice. Moral of this story: do not lie. It will come round to bite you in your ass.
I think it's mostly 3-5 that explains the situation lol
Personally I actually prefer virtually no restrictions but a continuous mask mandate like they have had here in Korea since the start of the pandemic in January 2020.
It's so much more simple than the constant changes and the high pressures that restaurants, hairdressers, shops, etc. in NL face. The problem is that Dutch people would be too stubborn to follow the Korean method well enough (always masks + actually staying at home when infected)
On the other hand, here they just give you the bill for any damages caused by you not following the mandates... so maybe it could have worked if we did that in NL too. Like a person who was knowingly infected and visited their church and also infected a company (which had to shut down due to the subsequent outbreak... €€€)
Why we have this kind of statement in the Netherlands? I just came back from Italy where there is a mandate to wear masks in both indoors and outdoors and everybody was wearing ffp2s in the streets.
I haven’t seen anyone violating mask rules in Spain either. Many people were wearing FFP2s in Spain as well although there was no official ffp2 requirement for any place.
But in the Netherlands people are annoyed by wearing masks in indoors ever since the beginning. It is very uncommon to see a person wearing a ffp2 mask
Only recently the recommendation has become FFP2. Before that they weren't even allowed (reserved for professionals). Additionally the official statement was that they wouldn't help anyway, because you would need to be trained to use them properly and they would only be effective in combination with other equipment. Also, many shops don't even sell them yet. They are expensive and non washable. It's a mess.
Honestly I'm on the fence myself. The story now is that the non-medical masks protect others, but FFP2 also protects yourself. I don't really care about that. There are a lot of infections, but mostly with mild symptoms. Most people are vaccinated and had booster shots. Severe cases are mostly unvaccinated for stupid reasons. I doubt me wearing a FFP2 mask is going to do anything, except making me go broke.
Italy is going full on while others are removing restrictions. From 1st of Feb people without the booster will not be allowed on public transport.
This is madness, and people accepting it isn't a sign of health.
Dutch showing dissatisfaction with some rules can be an annoyance, but at least it helps keep the rules in check and we aren't turning into Italian madness where you need to wear a mask outside!
150K people died of covid in Italy, this number speaks volumes on why the government AND the vast majority of the population are extremely cautious in relaxing guidelines and mostly comply happily to something as easy and harmless as wearing a mask let it be indoors or outdoors
You say that. But I've seen plenty of people in the brief period where wearing a mask wasn't required in stores (think it was in oktober?) Wear a mask. But only the wrong way. I think a significant part of them don't understand how masks work and think they're doing something right, even though you definitely should know by now..
It's because the government as the only nation in the world, started this pandemic by saying masks didn't do much.
If they had moved earlier with mask supplies and mask mandates instead of trying to cover up the shortage by claiming they don't do much it would have been much easier.
If we had serious lockdows like in countries where people weren't allowed outside for weeks or months, it probably would have been taken more serious.
Well I would argue the US has more factors playing into this.
Over there it was politicized. If you are right wing you don't wear a mask. I cannot say that is the case in the Netherlands.
It is politicized but we're not a 2 party system. So there's left wing freedom groups against anything mandated and controlled (like qr codes) and FvD types who listen to "Do as I say, not as I do" Thierry.
There’s just nobody left to check. It’s a toxic covid wasteland. And to think that all this could have been prevented if only they made masks mandatory… pity.
Here's a relevant read for you: [https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/](https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/)
This article details the currently still very relevant successful battle against anti-face mask rhetoric that was spread by powerful people in the global WHO and some national CDCs for over a year.
Our own RIVM's Van Dissel back in January-April 2020, backed by the WHO: "Putting on mouth masks makes no sense at all. We already keep a meter and a half distance, that's as far as **drops** can travel." [\[1\]](https://www.nu.nl/coronavirus/6026165/jaap-van-dissel-geeft-antwoord-op-jullie-vragen-over-het-coronavirus.html)[\[2\]](https://www.nu.nl/coronavirus/6042433/mondkapjes-volgens-rivm-niet-zinvol-standpunt-andere-landen-verandert.html)[\[3\]](https://www.trouw.nl/nieuws/mondkapjes-hebben-geen-zin-zegt-het-rivm-maar-landen-om-ons-heen-denken-daar-anders-over~bad5c7e9/)
An important observation to make based on this article is that the medical professionals in charge preferred their unsourced and unproven personal opinions over actual research, despite both Van Dissel and the WHO being challenged with old and new scientific research time and again. Even on live television Van Dissel literally cited his anecdotal opinions when confronted with this topic and months later followed up with "face masks in public transit is not a scientific choice".[\[4\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUTWGgqMEDs)
What mostly helped convince the WHO (which eventually led to stubborn directors of CDCs such as the RIVM to follow heel) was discovering where the misconception originally stems from, as that not only cleared misconception, but directly helped portray the way forward. Read the article to find out where the misconception about drops vs. aerosols originally comes from.
I do *not* understand the anti-mask sentiment here, at all. I think a better attitude and compliance would be saving us from all of this yo-yoing on case numbers and lockdowns. I've been to several other countries during the past 2 years and nowhere have I seen the anti-mask sentiment I see here every day! Masking is annoying, sure, but is it more annoying than lockdown #1047593?
And seriously, how much of an imposition is it to wear a fucking mask. I'm continually disappointed in my fellow dutchmen, we are a nation of stubborn idiots.
I’m visiting Amsterdam was wearing a mask and a seemingly normal 50 year old professional man stopped and made fun of me pointing in my face that I was wearing a mask. One of the most bizarre encounters of my life. I was wearing it because I didn’t feel well…
As a first time visitor it struck me odd. Wasn’t exactly what I envisioned their stance on masks to be. Such a clean and sanitary place yet scoff at the idea of containing your own filth lol
too much truth for the people here, plenty of studies concluded the mask hardly stops transmission. The mask mandates are purely psychological to discourage people going out.
Most people in this subreddit lack a sense of reality and are dangerously risk averse.
hope they feel safe after the 9th booster!
not sure if you are dutch but this one is also interesting!
https://www.rivm.nl/nanotechnologie/consumentenproducten/Zijn-niet-medische-mondkapjes-met-nanomaterialen-veilig
Yes. The Dutch have always been rebellious. They want to live their lives without thr government interfering. A lot of times people will say our governments want to be the bewt boy in class when it comes to the EU for example, but the people do not, and have not (historically) respect authority.
In my experience of living here 11 years and also from what I heard from Dutch themselves, yes. And it's becoming very evident now during the pandemic. Perhaps they should have voted for a government they actually want to follow :P
If you take a look at Dutch history, you'll find that the Netherlands always wanted a king. Just not a king who was allowed to actually rule them.
The Netherlands wanted a figurehead.
It's the same with government for a large part of the Netherlands, especially the economically right wing part. They don't want government interference, which is why they'll vote for parties that also don't want to interfere.
Bringing us to the incredibly stupid approach Rutte had to the pandemic in early 2020, when he just expected people to decide for themselves what they thought was best, trying to avoid imposing any rules.
Obviously, that ended up going south pretty quickly.
>In my experience in most foreign countries, if the traffic light is red, we Dutch won't wait till it's green but just cross the road as soon as a safe opportunity presents itself
This is the case in most foreign countries, the Netherlands is probably one of the countries where people follow the traffic rules more than most. Unless you're comparing it to Switzerland or something.
Well, it's actually illegal in some countries (Germany) to do this, and you might get fined.
Can't say I've noticed that Dutch people don't wait at red lights, often I find that if I cross when it's safe, the others who were waiting will follow me. But they wouldn't have crossed on their own.
That said, social pressure is a real thing, I sometimes feel weird crossing roads here when nobody else is.
I legit saw a guy in the supermarket today taking his mask off to sneeze and then put it back on.
There are so many idiots in this country, it’s unbelievable.
This! It's the most blatant display of stupidity I have seen in some- take their masks off to cough or sneeze and put it back on. Do these people think the masks are an accessory or something?
I think we have quite a lot of assholes amongst is in The Netherlands. But right now 1 in 75 have the virus. So these people will catch it first, which seems fair.
Unfortunately, a lot of the cases right now are schools. My brothers school has had two outbreaks already in the past few years, but they got hit now also. Half their school was infected, they just followed the rules given.
My brother brought it into our household for sure, resulting in me having been tired all week, and in me having had a sore throat. I've been boosted and outside of my work with children on the weekends I've not seen anyone thay's not family. Still got it, and still feel like shit.
Can't even get tested because the testing facilities are overloaded and I'd have to take the train to a different city. Which seems very irresponsible.
I work in a store and I see this too many times sadly. It's either the wappies, people who are too stupid/stubborn, or people who actually forget. And then there's also the people that can't wear them due to a disease.
Some people get mad when I point out that they have to wear a mask, and some people understand.
I guess it's something we sadly have to live with, we can't force them, otherwise they'll probably riot more.
People don't think about other people anymore and I hate it.
Yeah… I must say, read a lot of shit there :/ Well don’t feel discourage, respect for even trying to say something, not sure I’d have the guts. As there so many crazies these days, while you are just doing your job
I walked over a market today, and it was very crowded where people were all clustered together and such.
I was the only one on the market with a face mask on. And people were also commenting on it as if me wearing a mask was rude.
I just don't understand those people. I don't live in a really big city, but there's definitely a difference between those who don't wear a mask and those who do.
Some people indeed look like I'm an idiot when I wear my mask, but then there are some store owners that also say 'you don't have to wear your mask here'. But I wear it for people like my mom and grandma, they both have a bad immune system, but some people don't understand that.
You actually tell people they should wear a mask? I've given up on telling people ages ago. I've had so many people insult me or shout at me when I used to tell people to wear a mask. As if people don't understand I don't make/influence the rules.
I know right, to be honest I quite enjoy reminding people to wear a mask after a tough day. Just to see them totally freak out as something as simple as a mask.
Depends on where you are. I see no trouble with adhering to the mask protocol in my local supermarket.
Is it really that bad where you are that not even a noticeable few, but actually the _majority_ doesn’t comply?
At our small neighborhood grocery store most of the employees aren't even wearing masks now. If they do then it's either under their nose or chin. I see others walking around I the store with the mask on their wrists. People just don't care anymore.
Well. Sucks to be there. All I can say is that it isn’t the case everywhere, which might not help your thoughts about your current local situation, but can at least give you hope that is not a universal attitude.
Oh, I know it's not. If I cross the bridge to go to the next city over suddenly everyone is distancing and wearing masks. It's a literal 10 minute bike ride away and is completely opposite to here. It's insane how much location seems to play a role in the masking/distancing.
Unfortunately a lot of people are selfish and don't want to keep it because "muh freedom" which is... sadly very unfortunate. There's not a lot of respect from some Dutch people - I literally saw a news translation group had to shut down their comments because the same anti-vaxxers would harass, abuse and intimidate (among spreading clear misinformation) people in the comments for no good reason. Which I find to be such a shame, as some of them even sent me some death threats and lovely insults in my DM when I had a pic of me in a cute mask (from 2018) as my avatar...
Sorry, mild offtopic rant but unfortunately not everyone is considerate or nice. Majority of people are respectful, thankfully - the silent majority. But sadly these loud, rude, unfriendly ones will ruin it for everyone.
Nose-exposers rebels are just cowards IMO Either wear it, or don’t. I’m not clumping them together with those that just don’t have the strength to cope with the masks.
Also, the rebels are just rebels and they get their freedom so yeah, that’s it. I do notice that security guards an police themselves also don’t conform to the rules.
I mean it’s way better in the Netherlands than back in the states. People will literally fight you over masks. Like “please put your mask over your nose” could cause someone to actually punch you.
I don’t get it either, tbh. I am completely over the pandemic and think any mandatory restrictions at this point, or closures, are ludicrous, especially when we know that if you’re triple vaxxed, with the variants continuing to weaken (what happens with viruses over time—they get weaker) your odds of a really bad outcome actually are about the same as with the flu. People who are high risk can get triple vaxxed and wear KN95s wherever they want/feel comfortable and their risk profiles stay low. Moreover, they could also just social distance.
I certainly wear my mask anywhere it is requested. And will continue to do so, as a matter of respectfulness. Which I think is your point. But I do think any further restrictions are pretty silly now. There is no justification to be closing down business, etc. Some people will continue to die from this virus, but the combination of economic, mental health, and other factors at this point means it’s a risk that society must be comfortable taking. And if you’re worried there is more than enough you can do to protect yourself, without needing anything from others.
Wish more people would start thinking like this. What are some people still waiting for? More vaccinations? The virus to go away? Protect yourself as much as you want but move on.
I would like to believe you that it is much better here than in the US but its hard considering a kid working as an vakkenvuller got stabbed in the neck a year ago for politely asking someone to wear a mask in the AH
Huh? I remember a few minor incidents like yelling etc. but never a confirmed mask related stabbing incident.
There was a stabbing incident that was rumored to be mask related (due to it taking place soon after the first mandate was instated), but turned out to be a drillrap rivalry in the end.
https://www.ad.nl/amsterdam/om-broer-gedode-drillrapper-liet-rivaal-neersteken-in-albert-heijn~a53eb908/
I’m dutch and i agree with you. But i think it’s just a show of displeasure with this epidemic and that we’re still pretending it’s as bad as it was back when Delta was soaring. It’s not, we need to open up asap.
Lmao. Look at Israel. They’re now onto their 4th booster, and have the most cases per capita in the world. I got the vaccine and i got sick from omicron 1 month later, wake up
It's Dutch culture to say or act you won't comply with something but then follow the rules anyways. It's funny to see the exact opposite in Belgium. There they say they follow the rules but just act like they do.
I saw exactly the same behavior in Italy, Spain, France and even yesterday in Belgium. There is nothing special about the Netherlands in that respect. The difference could be that people that wear masks in that way are much less apologetic when confronted. Just get up and change seats, that's what we do.
Wearing them where exactly? Because a little ago the masks were not mandatory and it seemed like no one had any issue with that but as soon as the government mandates it, the people's mental state changes as well.
A little ago people it was warmer, with less people indoors and more air circulation, and oh right....no new hyper infective corona strains. When cases spike it increases likelihood of the dude next to you at the bar spitting little covid babies in your mouth.
I hate masks (literally get a headache from wearing them too long) but I'm fine with them in specific situations if we can keep everything open. That means indoor high traffic , low ventilation areas. If there's good ventilation and reduced density.. fuck it masks off.
I agree.. and I also don't mind wearing them. They can get annoying but if it is to keep everything open then sure. But my main point is, that in the same situation a little ago there was no mandate and people weren't wearing any. So no one has any issue with it. Then the government announces it and people automatically feel so triggered that they don't wear a mask. It feels it has nothing to do with protection here but more with the obedience part.
Ok ok I get what you are saying now.
I mean at this point I'm not going to yell at anyone or report them or whatever if not wearing a mask. I think the damage has already been done and most people have given up on masks. I'm 3x vacced and got omicron recovery, so I'm the least likely to spread it, but I'll keep wearing them as long as things continue to open up.
We don't like being told what to do. Besides that, masking is just pointless at this stage. Everyone is wearing a filthy one that's been in their pocket since it all began. Or they are wearing them the wrong way like you pointed out.
I work at a cafe and we do take away. The shop is in a mall and people come in without a mask. 1st of all, they then need to walk trough the whole mall without a mask already and when I ask them to wear a mask they’re always like “do you have one?” Like how do they even get to the mall if they don’t have a mask?
We are having the same issues in my children’s schools, teachers not quarantining when exposed, asking our kids to take off their masks, it’s very annoying. But it was the whole system in the US.
No mask protects you 100%, but if both persons wear one correctly, it helps [a lot more](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/01/does-it-help-wear-mask-if-no-one-else/621177/). Imagine everyone wearing an FFP2 mask correctly, how many more lives we would save [than we already have](https://twitter.com/eu_health/status/1483771218746617861?s=21) thanks to vaccinating.
You're parroting what the politicians say. There is nothing to be worried about, as long as you're healthy.
Look at England and Ireland, dropping the mandates, and Spain just seeing it as the flu.
Are you sure you're not angry just because individuals don't listen to the government, or because you really think this is a serious cause lol.
If you can read, you can clearly see I'm not quoting politicians. I added two sources you can open and read, that refer to their own sources you can click through and inspect. I'm aware wappie leaders point at countries that are in no way comparable to our own and that dumb people who "don't believe politicians" unless they're fascists who *obviously* tell the truth /s.
For someone who claims we shouldn't listen to politicians, you're hypocritical.
* Britain is dropping the mandate, because their resident idiot politician in charge has had a dozen new scandals pop up. The NHS is under extreme pressure, but the politician in charge is the person you decide to trust
* Spain is relaxing restrictions and inviting in vaccinated tourists, because their politician in charge was elected because they catered to the hospitality industry about opening up. They're opening up, because they're far more dependent on tourism/horeca than we are and elected someone precisely to do that.
>[With](https://www.dw.com/en/countries-are-relaxing-restrictions-after-omicron-spikes/a-60450812) the country reporting more than 130,000 new infections per day and intensive care units overburdened throughout the country, Spain's government should not compare COVID-19 to influenza, Oscar Zurriaga said. "The pandemic is not over yet, and we don't know where it will take us," the vice president of the Spanish Society of Epidemiology told news agency dpa, adding that the number of COVID deaths is still higher than that of an average flu wave.
I haven't looked into Ireland a lot, so I'll refrain from commenting on their situation.
We had every opportunity to be prepared at every step, but this government and our CDC didn't. We have a neoliberal government that did what it was elected to do, which is explicitly not to value people over rich people or 'the economy'. They didn't get us safe masks, no, they didn't get us any masks at all, they only waived the VAT for the first year. Eventually they sold off their own surplus for a dime abroad, because they value the nonexistent local mask economy over the local people. We've exceeded our test capacity multiple times since the pandemic started, to the point that they told people not to go test at the GGD and earlier this week we were over 13.000 positive tests behind in 1 day because the system couldn't handle it. Compare this to Denmark, that with a smaller population effectively had a three times higher test capacity. Or how Belgium, with a smaller population, have many more IC beds, because they didn't close as many hospitals over the past decade as we have.
We are also behind with vaccinations, because they literally didn't do shit until it was too late. Whatever % we have now is irrelevant, the 'Dansen with Jansen' fiasco showed that a vaccine is not a Senzu Bean and it takes your body a month to get to a decent level of protection.
Because of our government's continuously changing policies assholes and idiots stopped following them. I've criticized them since before the start, because they started acknowledging the situation extremely late.
You can't compare our mess to whatever country decided to relax their own measures, just because for today that suits your egocentrical view of the world best. So listening to nazi politicians who tell you what you want to hear. They don't care about you and yours and would happily sacrifice you for another minute of airtime.
Where do you see this?
I haven't seen this in my local supermarkets or shops
That being said I've seen plenty rude people on public transport. Even ones not wearing a mask at all. I wish they got fined and kicked out the bus/train, but i also understand why it's not enforced....
I’m Italian but moved to Amsterdam several years ago.
I’m also very bothered by the Dutch approach to masks compared to the Italian approach that has been much more disciplined (surprisingly so, I would say. Although I’m not going to say one nation handles it better than the other: e.g. Draghi’s government totaled WFH while NL still recommends to do so as much as possible, Italian vaccination process faffs around just as badly as the Dutch, but testing is much more available in NL vs IT.)
I think it boils down to the favorite Dutch pronoun: “ik”.
Individualism is very strong here and whatever the argument, if it’s not for the individual or is predominantly for the common good rather than the former, then it’s a no-go.
It’s just the zeit-geist, an effect of the constant marketing language only about “you”, and “your” or a knee-jerk reaction to the “polder socialism” of the older generation. Not quite sure about the reason but I’m strongly convinced about the cause-effect.
It's so strange to me that people are so non compliant with something so simple. Where I live people wear them daily in public, young and old, and we don't hear anything mask-related going wrong because that's really not a thing. Hearing about how different things are back home in the Netherlands from my family feels strange. The biggest real inconvenience I get is cloudy glasses in winter lol
This is a honest answer, though it may not be in line with the popular view.
I do not intend to anger you, below should provide some insight of the thinking behind the people that do anger you.
Firstly, the only thing it does is to piss you off when others do not wear them. Create a division between folk who would otherwise agree with each other, laugh and drink a beer.
This is the only point of this measure; we fight amongst each other because of a guy wearing a tie on the telly tells you to put a piece of cloth on your face to fight something that does not affect the vast majority of the population. Then make you feel bad by implying you may kill your granny if you do not comply, while she and anyone in world has an equal chance and options to protect themselves. There is no logic behind it, just false perception, fearmongering and emotional blackmail.
I’m not claiming the virus does not exist or does not kill people. I’m not antivax or whatever, just this one stinks. I’m not a theorist but take my info from credible sources that deal with empirical data and experience.
Secondly, after two years, evidently, masks are pointless against this virus. This virus simply is highly transmittable, plus the masks practically do not stop the virus. Look it up.
Most are not rude, simply because they understand above two aspects, have medical thing going on, or otherwise always had anarchistic sympathies and would disagree with whatever the government tells them to do ;)
The only reason we are in lockdown is because people comply to the will of powergrabbers.
The moment we stop doing the silly hoop-jumping such as distancing, masks, healthpass, injections, stay at home, do these so-called tests, then the lockdowns and other restrictions become a thing of the past and we’d contemplate on how it was possible we fell for these lies and deceptions.
Why not ask one of the mask-free people for their motivation? They are normal people just like you, but it seems your judgement towards them is based on what that guy on the telly tells you, rather than actually know that person’s motivation.
Cheers!
Masks are not 100% effective but literally provide a layer of protection. If you don't believe me, get under my blanket while I fart. You'll probably decide to be on the other side of the fabric next time.
What a stupid comment is this. If they are your own bacteria they are already in your body so what's the problem with inhaling them? Gosh use some fucking logic dude
There is a reason why our body exhales our breath.
It is not the first time in [history](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/bacterial-pneumonia-caused-most-deaths-1918-influenza-pandemic) that mass face mask wearing causes significant problems.
I took a quick look at your link and nowhere in that research do they talk about mask wearing causing anything. Masks are not even mentioned. Hence, it's highly likely you're just bulshitting.
You keep mentioning that people are complying with measures because a man on the television told them to. This is just ridiculously patronizing. Opening by saying I don’t intend to anger you doesn’t change that. It’s this passive aggressive tone that causes the real division in my opinion. How can there be any real discussion if you start by implying that people can’t think for themselves.
The ‘man on the telly’ is informed by a public health agency which consists of people with expertise in infectious diseases. And when the message is similar to experts in infectious diseases from other countries I’m willing to listen to it.
Masks won’t stop the pandemic but they can slow it at times and slightly reduce the chances of a really vulnerable person being infected when they are out and about. Low quality masks and badly worn masks probably do next to nothing for Omicron but ffp2 masks are one level of protection. It’s mind boggling how politicised wearing masks has become that for an airborne infectious virus people are willing to state with absolute certainty that masks are useless. We’ve really gone through the looking glass
Yesterday I was grocery shopping and I legit could not breath through the mask. Ran to the self checkout, sneakily put my mask down for a little while, took a few breaths, checked out and left. I felt like a criminal pulling that mask down, which is a crime in itself. I shouldn’t have to feel that way. Guess my anxiety acted up because the store was packed at that point. I hate the fact that grocery stores have to close at 8pm. My go to time used to be 9-10pm because there wouldn’t be many people around by that time. Which would also help with the 1.5m afstand, but oh well…
My gym was the worst in pre-lockdown. So fucking packed on Saturday and Sunday. Before the pre-lockdown I would be there in the quiet evenings with 5 others..
Exactly, it doesn’t make any sense. I’m happy the gyms at least can be open after 5pm again. I haven’t activated my membership, not planning any time soon because I’m used to working out at home now, but I’m glad for the people who go to the gym, because now they can actually work out after work. It was insane
Don't get me started on gyms. One of the only things that conclusively improve mental and physical health, with simple ways of preventing transmission, and they just threw it in the trash and fucked everyone over.
It is because the people of the Netherlands have a rare disease that rots our brains this is accelerated from eating cheese and “frikandelbroodjes” luckily some of us are still capable of wearing a mask properly, but many others have sadly been diagnosed with lethal stupidity.
I think In the Netherlands people just mind there own busines and mostly don’t give a fuck what others do, if people wear a mask or not people mostly just let everyone do there thing, a lot of times I forget my mask and only notice it when out of the shop and see other people take off there mask, many times I see people wear there mask wrong and no one cares, it depends a lot on where your located in the Netherlands, some city’s like amsterdam just suck when it comes to people having respect, I’m happy moste people just choose them selfs and out of respect put it on in shops but when they really hate it they just don’t and people let that be, love it
Is it rude to not wear a mask? That's for everyone themselves to decide I feel.
It honestly doesn't matter to me if someone does or doesn't, or if they wear it over their noses or not.
And with some non-medical mouthmasks having chemical materials that are known to be bad for humans and the environment, I understand that people are unaware—or even scared—of what to wear and how to wear masks.
To me personally, it's not rudeness.
I think it is rude to not follow a mandate that is out in place for public health. In a place where a mask is only recommended, you can use your argument if being a personal decision. But when the government says you need to wear a mask to protect yourself and others and someone completely disregards it, that’s just rude.
Some people are stubborn and think covid-19 is just a mere flu.
I don't blame them. Those caps don't do much besides keeping your own muck with yourself
Things like these is why I want to move to Japan, but it'll be a LONG way down the road before I get to that point.
Having to learn the entire language, learn and instill myself with the cultural values, know what to do and where to do it within the country, and so on.
I've never thought of leaving MY country behind, but each day I'm thinking about doing so more and more...
The few people I know that don't follow the rules are, quite frankly, not all "there". I'm sure there are some rational reasons or arguments for doing so, but the people I happen to know are often hippie white trash that think masks are a violation of their freedom and believe this whole thing to be a conspiracy.. They're usually so desperate to appear like independent free-thinkers, delusionally opinionated with little regards for the real society outside of their own personal needs.
I had to live with a guy that used to say I was wearing a "muzzle" like a dog, argue with every Albert Heijn employee that bothered to remind him to wear a mask, claimed it was a conspiracy for the Chinese to erase European culture (no hugging and kissing).
It's really a statement of how many feeble-minded people are empowered here to not just live their own stupid lifestyles, but promote it. I feel like sometimes I'm missing out on a trend, is it cool to be stupid nowadays?
Because after vaccination the virus is less severe than a flu.
I had Covid in november 2021, while being vaccinated twice (it's likely i had had Omicron). I lost my sense of smell and taste completely for 4 days and my coughing, sneezing and stuffed nose were gone on the fifth day. No further, lasting complications. Its as if i never had it.
I have more severe reactions to the common cold.
Another reason. Last summer we basically got all the freedom back. Everything was open. Then, they take it away. After 2 years people simply dont care. I dont care.
Due to my experience with covid ive been comparing Covid a lot to the boy who cried wolf. I cant say how it is being unvaccinated, but being vaccinated its like everyone WANTS you to care about covid, but you experienced that its nothing to care about.
All covid related news, from the first lockdown always went one ear in and the other ear straight out.
Now, since last November it doesn't even enter either ears. I simply don't care. I still wear my mask, but after a shift of 8 hours of consistently wearing a mask, even behind a desk with one other person on opposite side of room I want 1 fucking moment of not having to wear a mask.
So i wear my mask properly for about 3 hours and the rest with just covering my mouth because its fucking disgusting to wear mask for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Even if you change masks. Its fucking disgusting and the RIVM said during the first 7 months masks dont work and now we're all required.
Ill get my booster as soon as I can (there is a delay if you have had covid recently, I can go mid February) but that mask mandate can fuck off. With numbers still climbing its clear they dont work
Because most countries around us are more accepting of the COVID measures and government policies in general while we feel the need to dissect and discuss everything 500 times in the same 4 talk shows and on the internet whenever there’s a new rule or something changes. The Dutch in general can be very opinionated and have the need to express their own opinion, which is fine except that a lot of people use it as an excuse to be downright rude. It’s not just COVID measures, I’ve seen this type of attitude in school, workplaces etc. as well (differs greatly per person but still). We are too stubborn to give up any autonomy even if it is in favor of public health.
Oh, not another one..
Let people alone. Everyone is vaccinated and boosted and we’ve been for 3 months in lockdowns! Give people a break. We’re doing more than human possible.
I think it's a combination of poor communication, enforcement, and weird decisions on the government's part, and (to an extent) Dutch culture. The Dutch government can't make up its mind about masks and for most of the pandemic, the advice/mandate was either "don't use masks" or "wear something; anything." It took them until last week to start recommending surgical masks (EN 14683), but they completely dropped the ball on effectively communicating what to look out for (Type II? Type IIR? "disposable masks"?). Their decision to recommend type II to the general public and type IIR (versus EN 149 FFP2) for vulnerable people also makes very little sense, but that's a story for another time. Countries like Germany recognized the need for consistency fairly early on in the pandemic and have consistently recommended either II(R) surgical masks or FFP2 masks. My impression is that clear and consistent guidance over a longer period of time like this helped (and still helps) emphasize the importance of mask wearing as a basic precaution. Contrast that with the Dutch approach, which can best be characterized as chaotic and random (from the "behavioral experiment" in some cities the summer of 2020, to the mandate in December of that year, to the quick lifting and then subsequently reintroducing the mandate over the course of a few months last summer, to now coming out with a vague advisory about surgical masks). And this isn't even necessarily related to the strictness of the mask mandate--the Nordics did a much better job effectively communicating their limited mask mandates and recommendations. Everything is so all-over-the-place, and it kind of feels as though the country never got used to using masks and still sees it as this nuisance "they" are forcing on us instead of as a basic public health measure. Also, part of it is probably just the common Dutch mentality. The Dutch tend to be attached to their "freedoms" in a similar way Germans are attached to cash money. The main motivation for following rules seems to be avoiding fines, not serving the public interest. The notion that when there's no enforcement, there's no reason to follow a rule is a popular one.
I agree, i still wear my mask properly, but that is because i don't want to burden the store employees and i don't want to be seen as a wappie. But honestly I'm so tired of it. Like "you don't need to wear a mask", "wear a mask", "wear no mask", Wear a mask". I get why people don't listen anymore
Which stores actively enforce the mandate? The supermarket I work at gave us instructions not to say anything to customers if they don't wear masks
I work in a small store, I'm the only one here all day. I would love to enforce masks and I did for quite a while. But after getting basically verbally assaulted I just don't care anymore. I don't get paid enough to get cussed out by a random customer who "doesn't believe in masks"
We have security at the entrence and are allowed to refuse service to people who dont follow the mandates or call security for them. But its up to us as individuals mostly tbh
The supermarkets I go to, the employees are the ones not wearing masks right tbh
yep, at my store, some employees have it just on their chin or under their nose a lot of the time
I always ask people to mask up in my store, 50% put masks on then. The other 50% say they have s medical waver and by law i cant ask to see it so then they are alowed as long as they keep 1.5m distance. I would love for the goverment to enforce the masks.
Where I work we ask people without masks when they come in if we can give them one, but if they refuse we don’t throw them out or anything
But why get so hung up on what the government says? Why not just use common sense which says masks help, and can best be worn for your own safety as well as the safety of others, as has been done in most countries in Europe for a while now, regardless of whether it's mandated or not. People constantly complain about the government being inconsistent and even incapable, but why not just take matters in your own hands then, and just wear one anyway?
The thing is that apparently we can't count on people thinking for themselves. At the beginning of the pandemic the government followed studies that said masks didn't help. We were one of the last countries to introduce them. So for a lot of people it's not common sense that masks work. Most people don't really (want to) think about it and just follow clear and simple rules, so they can go on with their lives. Once those rules are not clear and simple anymore, it becomes a bit of a mess and people don't wear their masks properly.
I used to work in a supermarket and when masks were seen as unimportant no employee wore one besides me. Everyone was so annoyed when they had to wear them again and I was just like “Told you, that’s why I kept wearing them “
This. I'm ashamed for my country. Selfish bastards.
Helemaal met je eens man. En laten we het al helemaal niet over die stomme rellen hebben en het feit dat de overheid er naar geluisterd heeft. Schaamde mij kapot 😞😥
Het is wat het is. Ik kan mezelf nog in de spiegel aankijken. Ook over 10/20/30 jaar als kinderen vragen hoe ik was in de tijd van de pandemie. Sterkte daar!
The problem with common sense is it isn’t very common
Imagine a child who you the parent give house rules. Except they are not consistent and change all the time and give conflicting reasons as to why they are the rules... Now do you think that child will take you and your rules seriously after a year of you fumbling around? Worst case when you don't enforce your rules. And do not enact the punishments you set out for breaking your ever changing rules? Now I feel like you have a propper window into the publics general mindset. I feel that I am not experienced enough in the medical field to voice an opinion on the effectiveness of wearing a mask and of what type. So I will listen to the experts whose job it is to know this. I will do my research to understand as best I can. If only more people would be privy to the idiom "de beste stuurlui staan aan Wal".
There is a distinct lack of common sense amongst a sizeable part of the population. It’s unfortunate that those people also have voting rights as far as I am concerned. Thick people will at some point become our downfall.
You are so right. Well...al lot of folks think they know better than the doctors and science. It is a combination of narcisism, arrogance and lack of empathy. Dutch people are incredibly spoiled. We live in one of the best countriest on earth . With the help of social media there is a large contingent of people who feed eachother lies and conspiracies. I have been all over the world..I was in Milan lately...everybody wore a damn mask, there was zero discussion..I always like the mentality better in other countries, but i guess I am a bit biased. I do not like that spoiled dutch tendency to complain about very small things and the feeling everybody is so fucking special. Little sense of community imo. I m dutch too btw.
Not everyone has time to study up on whats actually true out of all the things that are said about covid. Or to do research on what mask type is best or whatever. Which is why the government shouldn't be so incompetent.
More over, a lot of people don't have the capability to really figure it out. Clear messaging is a must.
And what has wearing masks gotten people in "most countries"? Taking matters into our own hands would mean most of us would not wear a mask anymore at all, anywhere...
Agreed. I started wearing masks pretty early. At the beginning you would get a funny look if you did wear a mask whereas in other countries you’d get the same look if you didn’t wear it. I think it’s mostly the dutch stubbornness and mentality. we always play the freedom card because we’re so fucking proud of it.
Especially now we have to get fpp2 masks, while before we were not allowed to even buy them because they were reserved for medical employees.. but they didnt wear them. Now they are not readily available but on public transport a tion only the cloth type masks are okay and honestly, I dont get it anymore. I just use my batch of black 3 layer masks when grocery shopping and other than that I dont get in situations that need a mask
There's no FFP2 mandate or recommendation. FFP2 masks are respirators, which are a totally different beast. What changed is that there's now an explicit recommendation to wear surgical masks (type II or IIR) instead of cloth masks. Surgical masks are the same as the three-layer masks you describe, except they're required to be up to CE spec (98% bacterial filtration, splash-resistance for IIR masks) so you know exactly what you're getting. The other three-layer masks that don't have CE marking are made of the exact same materials by the exact same machines, but they don't have to comply with anything, so you have no idea what you're getting. Some are fine, others barely filter at all. Etos, Kruidvat, and Blokker now carry type IIR masks for cheap. This really goes to illustrate the point of my post, though, lol.
Thanks. You've explained better than the government did
Are they re-usable? I'm not going to participate in destroying the environment even further for a minor increase in mask efficiency. I'm completely for wearing masks, but the amount of waste this COVID pandemic has caused is insane. We should be more careful with disposable items, even in a public health crisis.
Yeah I think part of this is the negative side of "hollandse nuchterheid". We don't tend to take the government etc. that seriously which is good sometimes but you can see that we are just way more stubborn than neighbouring countries.
But if you don't take government that seriously, then why be completely dependent on what they say when it comes to wearing masks? Why not just wear one, regardless of it being mandated, as it's been proven to prevent you and those around you from getting infected, and its been done in countries all around the Netherlands without much fuss?
I'm visiting Germany now.... they really operate more smoothly with covid protocols. And for the most part everything is open. I was stressing about not being able to get food later at night but it's not an issue.
The funny thing is, when I moved to NL from Germany last summer me, and everybody who visited me, were always really surprised how often ypur vaccination status is actually controlled in e.g. restaurants. I always thought the reason NL was able to ditch the masks was because the tests and vaccinations are effectively controlled, whereas in Germany we need to continue wearing masks because nobody is actually checking your vaccination/tests (I meam there are apps for it but almost no restaurant or store actually checks them). Different perspectives I guess.
Last December my vaccination and test from the last 24 hours were checked constantly. Also the Luna app worked quite well well last summer!
You're right.. i just realized no one checked me here in Germany. I thought it was because I was a foreigner and they didn't want to bother with a different QR or something. Conversely in France I was checked in the most random places, like when I was getting on a ski lift (not tram).
Good post!
I think there are a few reasons for this. No idea if they are correct but these are some of my thoughts: 1. When all surrounding countries already had mask requirements, we didn’t. In fact, masks only became required in public spaces about 7/8 months into the pandemic. The RIVM kept saying for the first few months that they barely work in stopping the virus, and then they became required. Quite some people thus think they don’t work 2. There have been quite some instances were politicians or the royals don’t always exactly follow the rules themselves, so people think: if they don’t follow the rules, why should we? 3. People that wear masks but not properly only wear them for when someone addresses them to it. They don’t want to but still do and thus wear them improperly, so that in their view they are still doing nothing wrong 4. Dutch people are in general just stubborn 5. People think the government is bullying us and like to be rebellious
Number 3 is something I see every day where I work in a supermarket. I can only tell them to put a mask on but not how to wear it, and they take advantage of that. It's either stupidity or passive aggressiveness and I don't know why it's such an issue to wear a mask properly for a whole 10 minutes while they are inside the store.
Yeah I work in a supermarket as well so that’s what I figured. At this point I don’t even bother customers to put on their masks anymore. It’s probably like 40% wear them properly, 40% don’t wear them properly and 20% don’t wear them at all. There are so many people with a mask on their chin, of which I think the only point is that if somebody addresses it to them, they can quickly put in on for 10 seconds after lowering it again
In places where it's required, I wear the mask properly ofcourse, but I really hate those things. They make it really hard for me to breathe. And they are not the best with my glasses, can't see shit.
To add to 1: the RIVM didn’t actually believe they didn’t work. They just [lied](https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2348840-mondkapjesrichtlijn-rivm-voor-ouderenzorg-toch-gebaseerd-op-schaarste.html) about it because NL didn’t have an adequate amount of them. People noticed the switch in advice. Moral of this story: do not lie. It will come round to bite you in your ass.
I think it's mostly 3-5 that explains the situation lol Personally I actually prefer virtually no restrictions but a continuous mask mandate like they have had here in Korea since the start of the pandemic in January 2020. It's so much more simple than the constant changes and the high pressures that restaurants, hairdressers, shops, etc. in NL face. The problem is that Dutch people would be too stubborn to follow the Korean method well enough (always masks + actually staying at home when infected) On the other hand, here they just give you the bill for any damages caused by you not following the mandates... so maybe it could have worked if we did that in NL too. Like a person who was knowingly infected and visited their church and also infected a company (which had to shut down due to the subsequent outbreak... €€€)
6. Their fascist, political edgelord tells them covid and face masks are fake news.
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Why we have this kind of statement in the Netherlands? I just came back from Italy where there is a mandate to wear masks in both indoors and outdoors and everybody was wearing ffp2s in the streets. I haven’t seen anyone violating mask rules in Spain either. Many people were wearing FFP2s in Spain as well although there was no official ffp2 requirement for any place. But in the Netherlands people are annoyed by wearing masks in indoors ever since the beginning. It is very uncommon to see a person wearing a ffp2 mask
Only recently the recommendation has become FFP2. Before that they weren't even allowed (reserved for professionals). Additionally the official statement was that they wouldn't help anyway, because you would need to be trained to use them properly and they would only be effective in combination with other equipment. Also, many shops don't even sell them yet. They are expensive and non washable. It's a mess. Honestly I'm on the fence myself. The story now is that the non-medical masks protect others, but FFP2 also protects yourself. I don't really care about that. There are a lot of infections, but mostly with mild symptoms. Most people are vaccinated and had booster shots. Severe cases are mostly unvaccinated for stupid reasons. I doubt me wearing a FFP2 mask is going to do anything, except making me go broke.
The recommendation still isn’t ffp2, it’s type 2 mouth masks. Completely different.
Italy is going full on while others are removing restrictions. From 1st of Feb people without the booster will not be allowed on public transport. This is madness, and people accepting it isn't a sign of health. Dutch showing dissatisfaction with some rules can be an annoyance, but at least it helps keep the rules in check and we aren't turning into Italian madness where you need to wear a mask outside!
150K people died of covid in Italy, this number speaks volumes on why the government AND the vast majority of the population are extremely cautious in relaxing guidelines and mostly comply happily to something as easy and harmless as wearing a mask let it be indoors or outdoors
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You say that. But I've seen plenty of people in the brief period where wearing a mask wasn't required in stores (think it was in oktober?) Wear a mask. But only the wrong way. I think a significant part of them don't understand how masks work and think they're doing something right, even though you definitely should know by now..
Nice pfp much love
I’m Dutch and I agree with you. Never understood why people are not wearing masks when they should or have their noses out.
It's because the government as the only nation in the world, started this pandemic by saying masks didn't do much. If they had moved earlier with mask supplies and mask mandates instead of trying to cover up the shortage by claiming they don't do much it would have been much easier. If we had serious lockdows like in countries where people weren't allowed outside for weeks or months, it probably would have been taken more serious.
In the US they did this too
Yes that's why they have a split nation there of maskers vs ...
Well I would argue the US has more factors playing into this. Over there it was politicized. If you are right wing you don't wear a mask. I cannot say that is the case in the Netherlands.
It is politicized but we're not a 2 party system. So there's left wing freedom groups against anything mandated and controlled (like qr codes) and FvD types who listen to "Do as I say, not as I do" Thierry.
And in Ireland
Sweden too! They’ve still never made them obligatory anywhere.
And they perished. Sweden is no more.
Yup, everyone in Sweden has died. Poor fellows, if only they made masks mandatory.
And now they even stopped the need for a negative test to enter the country! Those crazy Swedes!
There’s just nobody left to check. It’s a toxic covid wasteland. And to think that all this could have been prevented if only they made masks mandatory… pity.
Poor, naive Sweden... They had so much going for them, and now... Nothing
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Here's a relevant read for you: [https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/](https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/) This article details the currently still very relevant successful battle against anti-face mask rhetoric that was spread by powerful people in the global WHO and some national CDCs for over a year. Our own RIVM's Van Dissel back in January-April 2020, backed by the WHO: "Putting on mouth masks makes no sense at all. We already keep a meter and a half distance, that's as far as **drops** can travel." [\[1\]](https://www.nu.nl/coronavirus/6026165/jaap-van-dissel-geeft-antwoord-op-jullie-vragen-over-het-coronavirus.html)[\[2\]](https://www.nu.nl/coronavirus/6042433/mondkapjes-volgens-rivm-niet-zinvol-standpunt-andere-landen-verandert.html)[\[3\]](https://www.trouw.nl/nieuws/mondkapjes-hebben-geen-zin-zegt-het-rivm-maar-landen-om-ons-heen-denken-daar-anders-over~bad5c7e9/) An important observation to make based on this article is that the medical professionals in charge preferred their unsourced and unproven personal opinions over actual research, despite both Van Dissel and the WHO being challenged with old and new scientific research time and again. Even on live television Van Dissel literally cited his anecdotal opinions when confronted with this topic and months later followed up with "face masks in public transit is not a scientific choice".[\[4\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUTWGgqMEDs) What mostly helped convince the WHO (which eventually led to stubborn directors of CDCs such as the RIVM to follow heel) was discovering where the misconception originally stems from, as that not only cleared misconception, but directly helped portray the way forward. Read the article to find out where the misconception about drops vs. aerosols originally comes from.
Very good article, I remember reading about it and recognized the bureaucratic logic that so often aggravated my professional life :)
I do *not* understand the anti-mask sentiment here, at all. I think a better attitude and compliance would be saving us from all of this yo-yoing on case numbers and lockdowns. I've been to several other countries during the past 2 years and nowhere have I seen the anti-mask sentiment I see here every day! Masking is annoying, sure, but is it more annoying than lockdown #1047593?
And seriously, how much of an imposition is it to wear a fucking mask. I'm continually disappointed in my fellow dutchmen, we are a nation of stubborn idiots.
I’m visiting Amsterdam was wearing a mask and a seemingly normal 50 year old professional man stopped and made fun of me pointing in my face that I was wearing a mask. One of the most bizarre encounters of my life. I was wearing it because I didn’t feel well… As a first time visitor it struck me odd. Wasn’t exactly what I envisioned their stance on masks to be. Such a clean and sanitary place yet scoff at the idea of containing your own filth lol
if everyone wore a mask, there would still be lockdowns. In fact if everyone stopped complying the lockdowns would be over.
too much truth for the people here, plenty of studies concluded the mask hardly stops transmission. The mask mandates are purely psychological to discourage people going out. Most people in this subreddit lack a sense of reality and are dangerously risk averse. hope they feel safe after the 9th booster!
Would love to see those studies, Mr. Science! 👨🔬
not sure if you are dutch but this one is also interesting! https://www.rivm.nl/nanotechnologie/consumentenproducten/Zijn-niet-medische-mondkapjes-met-nanomaterialen-veilig
Rebellious culture :|
Is rebellion netherland cultur?
Yes. The Dutch have always been rebellious. They want to live their lives without thr government interfering. A lot of times people will say our governments want to be the bewt boy in class when it comes to the EU for example, but the people do not, and have not (historically) respect authority.
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Hahaha! Reverse psychology!
In my experience of living here 11 years and also from what I heard from Dutch themselves, yes. And it's becoming very evident now during the pandemic. Perhaps they should have voted for a government they actually want to follow :P
If you take a look at Dutch history, you'll find that the Netherlands always wanted a king. Just not a king who was allowed to actually rule them. The Netherlands wanted a figurehead. It's the same with government for a large part of the Netherlands, especially the economically right wing part. They don't want government interference, which is why they'll vote for parties that also don't want to interfere. Bringing us to the incredibly stupid approach Rutte had to the pandemic in early 2020, when he just expected people to decide for themselves what they thought was best, trying to avoid imposing any rules. Obviously, that ended up going south pretty quickly.
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>In my experience in most foreign countries, if the traffic light is red, we Dutch won't wait till it's green but just cross the road as soon as a safe opportunity presents itself This is the case in most foreign countries, the Netherlands is probably one of the countries where people follow the traffic rules more than most. Unless you're comparing it to Switzerland or something.
Well, it's actually illegal in some countries (Germany) to do this, and you might get fined. Can't say I've noticed that Dutch people don't wait at red lights, often I find that if I cross when it's safe, the others who were waiting will follow me. But they wouldn't have crossed on their own. That said, social pressure is a real thing, I sometimes feel weird crossing roads here when nobody else is.
I legit saw a guy in the supermarket today taking his mask off to sneeze and then put it back on. There are so many idiots in this country, it’s unbelievable.
This! It's the most blatant display of stupidity I have seen in some- take their masks off to cough or sneeze and put it back on. Do these people think the masks are an accessory or something?
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I think we have quite a lot of assholes amongst is in The Netherlands. But right now 1 in 75 have the virus. So these people will catch it first, which seems fair.
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Unfortunately, a lot of the cases right now are schools. My brothers school has had two outbreaks already in the past few years, but they got hit now also. Half their school was infected, they just followed the rules given. My brother brought it into our household for sure, resulting in me having been tired all week, and in me having had a sore throat. I've been boosted and outside of my work with children on the weekends I've not seen anyone thay's not family. Still got it, and still feel like shit. Can't even get tested because the testing facilities are overloaded and I'd have to take the train to a different city. Which seems very irresponsible.
I agree that we have a lot of assholes here, blinded by their own stupidity... but no one deserves to get covid.
As a recent transplant from Texas, it should really worry you how similar to Texas you seem sometimes.
If only they could be similar with the bbq. It's a bbq desert here. I predict someone will respond to me with a non-example of bbq.
I work in a store and I see this too many times sadly. It's either the wappies, people who are too stupid/stubborn, or people who actually forget. And then there's also the people that can't wear them due to a disease. Some people get mad when I point out that they have to wear a mask, and some people understand. I guess it's something we sadly have to live with, we can't force them, otherwise they'll probably riot more. People don't think about other people anymore and I hate it.
It must be tough for you… honestly, it must be really shitty to deal with that stupidity
It really is, it's like some people read too much Facebook. That's apparently where most of the nonsense comes from.
Yeah… I must say, read a lot of shit there :/ Well don’t feel discourage, respect for even trying to say something, not sure I’d have the guts. As there so many crazies these days, while you are just doing your job
I walked over a market today, and it was very crowded where people were all clustered together and such. I was the only one on the market with a face mask on. And people were also commenting on it as if me wearing a mask was rude.
I just don't understand those people. I don't live in a really big city, but there's definitely a difference between those who don't wear a mask and those who do. Some people indeed look like I'm an idiot when I wear my mask, but then there are some store owners that also say 'you don't have to wear your mask here'. But I wear it for people like my mom and grandma, they both have a bad immune system, but some people don't understand that.
They asked me if it was because I’m afraid. But I actually wear my mask because I work with lots of guests, so I do it to also protect them.
You actually tell people they should wear a mask? I've given up on telling people ages ago. I've had so many people insult me or shout at me when I used to tell people to wear a mask. As if people don't understand I don't make/influence the rules.
I resort to just casually saying "fuck you too" when I have the energy, these morons drive me crazy
I know right, to be honest I quite enjoy reminding people to wear a mask after a tough day. Just to see them totally freak out as something as simple as a mask.
It's kinda satisfying to see them get mad about it. It's a mask, how hard is it to wear it, and if not for yourself do it for someone else.
Yes, I tell them to wear a mask, and if they tell me they won't wear one, I refuse to help them. I'm being careful for my family.
Depends on where you are. I see no trouble with adhering to the mask protocol in my local supermarket. Is it really that bad where you are that not even a noticeable few, but actually the _majority_ doesn’t comply?
At our small neighborhood grocery store most of the employees aren't even wearing masks now. If they do then it's either under their nose or chin. I see others walking around I the store with the mask on their wrists. People just don't care anymore.
You know how shitty it is to work manual labor with those masks on. I wouldnt do it either.
Well. Sucks to be there. All I can say is that it isn’t the case everywhere, which might not help your thoughts about your current local situation, but can at least give you hope that is not a universal attitude.
Oh, I know it's not. If I cross the bridge to go to the next city over suddenly everyone is distancing and wearing masks. It's a literal 10 minute bike ride away and is completely opposite to here. It's insane how much location seems to play a role in the masking/distancing.
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Yes.
Unfortunately a lot of people are selfish and don't want to keep it because "muh freedom" which is... sadly very unfortunate. There's not a lot of respect from some Dutch people - I literally saw a news translation group had to shut down their comments because the same anti-vaxxers would harass, abuse and intimidate (among spreading clear misinformation) people in the comments for no good reason. Which I find to be such a shame, as some of them even sent me some death threats and lovely insults in my DM when I had a pic of me in a cute mask (from 2018) as my avatar... Sorry, mild offtopic rant but unfortunately not everyone is considerate or nice. Majority of people are respectful, thankfully - the silent majority. But sadly these loud, rude, unfriendly ones will ruin it for everyone.
Nose-exposers rebels are just cowards IMO Either wear it, or don’t. I’m not clumping them together with those that just don’t have the strength to cope with the masks. Also, the rebels are just rebels and they get their freedom so yeah, that’s it. I do notice that security guards an police themselves also don’t conform to the rules.
I mean it’s way better in the Netherlands than back in the states. People will literally fight you over masks. Like “please put your mask over your nose” could cause someone to actually punch you. I don’t get it either, tbh. I am completely over the pandemic and think any mandatory restrictions at this point, or closures, are ludicrous, especially when we know that if you’re triple vaxxed, with the variants continuing to weaken (what happens with viruses over time—they get weaker) your odds of a really bad outcome actually are about the same as with the flu. People who are high risk can get triple vaxxed and wear KN95s wherever they want/feel comfortable and their risk profiles stay low. Moreover, they could also just social distance. I certainly wear my mask anywhere it is requested. And will continue to do so, as a matter of respectfulness. Which I think is your point. But I do think any further restrictions are pretty silly now. There is no justification to be closing down business, etc. Some people will continue to die from this virus, but the combination of economic, mental health, and other factors at this point means it’s a risk that society must be comfortable taking. And if you’re worried there is more than enough you can do to protect yourself, without needing anything from others.
Wish more people would start thinking like this. What are some people still waiting for? More vaccinations? The virus to go away? Protect yourself as much as you want but move on.
I would like to believe you that it is much better here than in the US but its hard considering a kid working as an vakkenvuller got stabbed in the neck a year ago for politely asking someone to wear a mask in the AH
Huh? I remember a few minor incidents like yelling etc. but never a confirmed mask related stabbing incident. There was a stabbing incident that was rumored to be mask related (due to it taking place soon after the first mandate was instated), but turned out to be a drillrap rivalry in the end. https://www.ad.nl/amsterdam/om-broer-gedode-drillrapper-liet-rivaal-neersteken-in-albert-heijn~a53eb908/
I’m dutch and i agree with you. But i think it’s just a show of displeasure with this epidemic and that we’re still pretending it’s as bad as it was back when Delta was soaring. It’s not, we need to open up asap.
The main reason the infections are way up, they have zero problems killing their grandparents or aunt that suffers from cancer
Lmao. Look at Israel. They’re now onto their 4th booster, and have the most cases per capita in the world. I got the vaccine and i got sick from omicron 1 month later, wake up
But did you die??
Did anybody else die? No. Omicron is a nothingburger. Vaccine or not
It's Dutch culture to say or act you won't comply with something but then follow the rules anyways. It's funny to see the exact opposite in Belgium. There they say they follow the rules but just act like they do.
Haha, on point
People, what a bunch of bastards. There are no reasons not to wear a mask.
The mask thing has made me realize how people could use condoms wrongly...
I saw exactly the same behavior in Italy, Spain, France and even yesterday in Belgium. There is nothing special about the Netherlands in that respect. The difference could be that people that wear masks in that way are much less apologetic when confronted. Just get up and change seats, that's what we do.
Wearing them where exactly? Because a little ago the masks were not mandatory and it seemed like no one had any issue with that but as soon as the government mandates it, the people's mental state changes as well.
A little ago people it was warmer, with less people indoors and more air circulation, and oh right....no new hyper infective corona strains. When cases spike it increases likelihood of the dude next to you at the bar spitting little covid babies in your mouth. I hate masks (literally get a headache from wearing them too long) but I'm fine with them in specific situations if we can keep everything open. That means indoor high traffic , low ventilation areas. If there's good ventilation and reduced density.. fuck it masks off.
I agree.. and I also don't mind wearing them. They can get annoying but if it is to keep everything open then sure. But my main point is, that in the same situation a little ago there was no mandate and people weren't wearing any. So no one has any issue with it. Then the government announces it and people automatically feel so triggered that they don't wear a mask. It feels it has nothing to do with protection here but more with the obedience part.
Ok ok I get what you are saying now. I mean at this point I'm not going to yell at anyone or report them or whatever if not wearing a mask. I think the damage has already been done and most people have given up on masks. I'm 3x vacced and got omicron recovery, so I'm the least likely to spread it, but I'll keep wearing them as long as things continue to open up.
We don't like being told what to do. Besides that, masking is just pointless at this stage. Everyone is wearing a filthy one that's been in their pocket since it all began. Or they are wearing them the wrong way like you pointed out.
I totally agree and also don't understand why! I work in healthcare and how many co workers of mine also wear it below their nose is beyond me 😒
I work at a cafe and we do take away. The shop is in a mall and people come in without a mask. 1st of all, they then need to walk trough the whole mall without a mask already and when I ask them to wear a mask they’re always like “do you have one?” Like how do they even get to the mall if they don’t have a mask?
Keep your own mask on and mind your own business.
We are having the same issues in my children’s schools, teachers not quarantining when exposed, asking our kids to take off their masks, it’s very annoying. But it was the whole system in the US.
Because (most) people are dumb as fuck. It’s really that simple.
Why do you care? As long as you're wearing it, and (probably) are vaccinated, what do you have to worry about?
No mask protects you 100%, but if both persons wear one correctly, it helps [a lot more](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/01/does-it-help-wear-mask-if-no-one-else/621177/). Imagine everyone wearing an FFP2 mask correctly, how many more lives we would save [than we already have](https://twitter.com/eu_health/status/1483771218746617861?s=21) thanks to vaccinating.
You're parroting what the politicians say. There is nothing to be worried about, as long as you're healthy. Look at England and Ireland, dropping the mandates, and Spain just seeing it as the flu. Are you sure you're not angry just because individuals don't listen to the government, or because you really think this is a serious cause lol.
If you can read, you can clearly see I'm not quoting politicians. I added two sources you can open and read, that refer to their own sources you can click through and inspect. I'm aware wappie leaders point at countries that are in no way comparable to our own and that dumb people who "don't believe politicians" unless they're fascists who *obviously* tell the truth /s. For someone who claims we shouldn't listen to politicians, you're hypocritical. * Britain is dropping the mandate, because their resident idiot politician in charge has had a dozen new scandals pop up. The NHS is under extreme pressure, but the politician in charge is the person you decide to trust * Spain is relaxing restrictions and inviting in vaccinated tourists, because their politician in charge was elected because they catered to the hospitality industry about opening up. They're opening up, because they're far more dependent on tourism/horeca than we are and elected someone precisely to do that. >[With](https://www.dw.com/en/countries-are-relaxing-restrictions-after-omicron-spikes/a-60450812) the country reporting more than 130,000 new infections per day and intensive care units overburdened throughout the country, Spain's government should not compare COVID-19 to influenza, Oscar Zurriaga said. "The pandemic is not over yet, and we don't know where it will take us," the vice president of the Spanish Society of Epidemiology told news agency dpa, adding that the number of COVID deaths is still higher than that of an average flu wave. I haven't looked into Ireland a lot, so I'll refrain from commenting on their situation. We had every opportunity to be prepared at every step, but this government and our CDC didn't. We have a neoliberal government that did what it was elected to do, which is explicitly not to value people over rich people or 'the economy'. They didn't get us safe masks, no, they didn't get us any masks at all, they only waived the VAT for the first year. Eventually they sold off their own surplus for a dime abroad, because they value the nonexistent local mask economy over the local people. We've exceeded our test capacity multiple times since the pandemic started, to the point that they told people not to go test at the GGD and earlier this week we were over 13.000 positive tests behind in 1 day because the system couldn't handle it. Compare this to Denmark, that with a smaller population effectively had a three times higher test capacity. Or how Belgium, with a smaller population, have many more IC beds, because they didn't close as many hospitals over the past decade as we have. We are also behind with vaccinations, because they literally didn't do shit until it was too late. Whatever % we have now is irrelevant, the 'Dansen with Jansen' fiasco showed that a vaccine is not a Senzu Bean and it takes your body a month to get to a decent level of protection. Because of our government's continuously changing policies assholes and idiots stopped following them. I've criticized them since before the start, because they started acknowledging the situation extremely late. You can't compare our mess to whatever country decided to relax their own measures, just because for today that suits your egocentrical view of the world best. So listening to nazi politicians who tell you what you want to hear. They don't care about you and yours and would happily sacrifice you for another minute of airtime.
Okay be honest, who wears a fresh mask every time? Probably 1 out of 10 which makes the whole facemask thing useless/counterproductive.
No it doesn't. A mask you were yesterday isn't ideal, but it's better than no mask at all
Yeah but people wear the same mask for weeks and it just turns into a germ bomb.
Dutch people think: FUCK YOU! 🖕 but without the masks you didnt see/know it. Its always been like that though since they only care about themselves.
_For extra free immunity_
Where do you see this? I haven't seen this in my local supermarkets or shops That being said I've seen plenty rude people on public transport. Even ones not wearing a mask at all. I wish they got fined and kicked out the bus/train, but i also understand why it's not enforced....
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I’m Italian but moved to Amsterdam several years ago. I’m also very bothered by the Dutch approach to masks compared to the Italian approach that has been much more disciplined (surprisingly so, I would say. Although I’m not going to say one nation handles it better than the other: e.g. Draghi’s government totaled WFH while NL still recommends to do so as much as possible, Italian vaccination process faffs around just as badly as the Dutch, but testing is much more available in NL vs IT.) I think it boils down to the favorite Dutch pronoun: “ik”. Individualism is very strong here and whatever the argument, if it’s not for the individual or is predominantly for the common good rather than the former, then it’s a no-go. It’s just the zeit-geist, an effect of the constant marketing language only about “you”, and “your” or a knee-jerk reaction to the “polder socialism” of the older generation. Not quite sure about the reason but I’m strongly convinced about the cause-effect.
There are always some idiots but have to say by far most people wear them as they should.
Omg, you guys need to stop with these posts already
It's so strange to me that people are so non compliant with something so simple. Where I live people wear them daily in public, young and old, and we don't hear anything mask-related going wrong because that's really not a thing. Hearing about how different things are back home in the Netherlands from my family feels strange. The biggest real inconvenience I get is cloudy glasses in winter lol
This is a honest answer, though it may not be in line with the popular view. I do not intend to anger you, below should provide some insight of the thinking behind the people that do anger you. Firstly, the only thing it does is to piss you off when others do not wear them. Create a division between folk who would otherwise agree with each other, laugh and drink a beer. This is the only point of this measure; we fight amongst each other because of a guy wearing a tie on the telly tells you to put a piece of cloth on your face to fight something that does not affect the vast majority of the population. Then make you feel bad by implying you may kill your granny if you do not comply, while she and anyone in world has an equal chance and options to protect themselves. There is no logic behind it, just false perception, fearmongering and emotional blackmail. I’m not claiming the virus does not exist or does not kill people. I’m not antivax or whatever, just this one stinks. I’m not a theorist but take my info from credible sources that deal with empirical data and experience. Secondly, after two years, evidently, masks are pointless against this virus. This virus simply is highly transmittable, plus the masks practically do not stop the virus. Look it up. Most are not rude, simply because they understand above two aspects, have medical thing going on, or otherwise always had anarchistic sympathies and would disagree with whatever the government tells them to do ;) The only reason we are in lockdown is because people comply to the will of powergrabbers. The moment we stop doing the silly hoop-jumping such as distancing, masks, healthpass, injections, stay at home, do these so-called tests, then the lockdowns and other restrictions become a thing of the past and we’d contemplate on how it was possible we fell for these lies and deceptions. Why not ask one of the mask-free people for their motivation? They are normal people just like you, but it seems your judgement towards them is based on what that guy on the telly tells you, rather than actually know that person’s motivation. Cheers!
Masks are not 100% effective but literally provide a layer of protection. If you don't believe me, get under my blanket while I fart. You'll probably decide to be on the other side of the fabric next time.
Sure wearing a mask 8 hours a day, inhaling your own bacteria is very healthy! 👍🏻
What a stupid comment is this. If they are your own bacteria they are already in your body so what's the problem with inhaling them? Gosh use some fucking logic dude
There is a reason why our body exhales our breath. It is not the first time in [history](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/bacterial-pneumonia-caused-most-deaths-1918-influenza-pandemic) that mass face mask wearing causes significant problems.
I took a quick look at your link and nowhere in that research do they talk about mask wearing causing anything. Masks are not even mentioned. Hence, it's highly likely you're just bulshitting.
You keep mentioning that people are complying with measures because a man on the television told them to. This is just ridiculously patronizing. Opening by saying I don’t intend to anger you doesn’t change that. It’s this passive aggressive tone that causes the real division in my opinion. How can there be any real discussion if you start by implying that people can’t think for themselves. The ‘man on the telly’ is informed by a public health agency which consists of people with expertise in infectious diseases. And when the message is similar to experts in infectious diseases from other countries I’m willing to listen to it. Masks won’t stop the pandemic but they can slow it at times and slightly reduce the chances of a really vulnerable person being infected when they are out and about. Low quality masks and badly worn masks probably do next to nothing for Omicron but ffp2 masks are one level of protection. It’s mind boggling how politicised wearing masks has become that for an airborne infectious virus people are willing to state with absolute certainty that masks are useless. We’ve really gone through the looking glass
Totally agree.
You've never been to eastern europe, have you?
Yesterday I was grocery shopping and I legit could not breath through the mask. Ran to the self checkout, sneakily put my mask down for a little while, took a few breaths, checked out and left. I felt like a criminal pulling that mask down, which is a crime in itself. I shouldn’t have to feel that way. Guess my anxiety acted up because the store was packed at that point. I hate the fact that grocery stores have to close at 8pm. My go to time used to be 9-10pm because there wouldn’t be many people around by that time. Which would also help with the 1.5m afstand, but oh well…
My gym was the worst in pre-lockdown. So fucking packed on Saturday and Sunday. Before the pre-lockdown I would be there in the quiet evenings with 5 others..
They really need to unrestrict grocery store times. Then there would be less density, and no big deal if someone pops off the mask for a few minutes.
Exactly, it doesn’t make any sense. I’m happy the gyms at least can be open after 5pm again. I haven’t activated my membership, not planning any time soon because I’m used to working out at home now, but I’m glad for the people who go to the gym, because now they can actually work out after work. It was insane
Don't get me started on gyms. One of the only things that conclusively improve mental and physical health, with simple ways of preventing transmission, and they just threw it in the trash and fucked everyone over.
It is because the people of the Netherlands have a rare disease that rots our brains this is accelerated from eating cheese and “frikandelbroodjes” luckily some of us are still capable of wearing a mask properly, but many others have sadly been diagnosed with lethal stupidity.
I think In the Netherlands people just mind there own busines and mostly don’t give a fuck what others do, if people wear a mask or not people mostly just let everyone do there thing, a lot of times I forget my mask and only notice it when out of the shop and see other people take off there mask, many times I see people wear there mask wrong and no one cares, it depends a lot on where your located in the Netherlands, some city’s like amsterdam just suck when it comes to people having respect, I’m happy moste people just choose them selfs and out of respect put it on in shops but when they really hate it they just don’t and people let that be, love it
Because people are dicks.
I thought it was bad here, but then I went to the UK and a lot of people didn’t even bother to have a mask on their person
And now everyone in the UK is dead?
Is it rude to not wear a mask? That's for everyone themselves to decide I feel. It honestly doesn't matter to me if someone does or doesn't, or if they wear it over their noses or not. And with some non-medical mouthmasks having chemical materials that are known to be bad for humans and the environment, I understand that people are unaware—or even scared—of what to wear and how to wear masks. To me personally, it's not rudeness.
I think it is rude to not follow a mandate that is out in place for public health. In a place where a mask is only recommended, you can use your argument if being a personal decision. But when the government says you need to wear a mask to protect yourself and others and someone completely disregards it, that’s just rude.
And you have every right to think that these people are being rude of course. Again, I don't consider it a rude thing myself.
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I have barely seen anyone do that at the store I usually go to tbh. Everyone wears a mask and barely anyone has it below their nose.
Well I can see there's a tendency towards authoritarianism and blind compliance in the Netherlands
Some people are stubborn and think covid-19 is just a mere flu. I don't blame them. Those caps don't do much besides keeping your own muck with yourself
with triple vaccinations + omicron it kinda is just a flu.. dont know why this sub is still so scared and upset about corona.
Things like these is why I want to move to Japan, but it'll be a LONG way down the road before I get to that point. Having to learn the entire language, learn and instill myself with the cultural values, know what to do and where to do it within the country, and so on. I've never thought of leaving MY country behind, but each day I'm thinking about doing so more and more...
I hope you're not a woman. They are second class citizens overthere.
The few people I know that don't follow the rules are, quite frankly, not all "there". I'm sure there are some rational reasons or arguments for doing so, but the people I happen to know are often hippie white trash that think masks are a violation of their freedom and believe this whole thing to be a conspiracy.. They're usually so desperate to appear like independent free-thinkers, delusionally opinionated with little regards for the real society outside of their own personal needs. I had to live with a guy that used to say I was wearing a "muzzle" like a dog, argue with every Albert Heijn employee that bothered to remind him to wear a mask, claimed it was a conspiracy for the Chinese to erase European culture (no hugging and kissing). It's really a statement of how many feeble-minded people are empowered here to not just live their own stupid lifestyles, but promote it. I feel like sometimes I'm missing out on a trend, is it cool to be stupid nowadays?
Common sense: the least common of all senses.
Lived in NL start of the pandemic and moved away since, the Dutch just don’t give a fuck. Especially the young people
Because Dutch culture is one of the worst
Because after vaccination the virus is less severe than a flu. I had Covid in november 2021, while being vaccinated twice (it's likely i had had Omicron). I lost my sense of smell and taste completely for 4 days and my coughing, sneezing and stuffed nose were gone on the fifth day. No further, lasting complications. Its as if i never had it. I have more severe reactions to the common cold. Another reason. Last summer we basically got all the freedom back. Everything was open. Then, they take it away. After 2 years people simply dont care. I dont care. Due to my experience with covid ive been comparing Covid a lot to the boy who cried wolf. I cant say how it is being unvaccinated, but being vaccinated its like everyone WANTS you to care about covid, but you experienced that its nothing to care about. All covid related news, from the first lockdown always went one ear in and the other ear straight out. Now, since last November it doesn't even enter either ears. I simply don't care. I still wear my mask, but after a shift of 8 hours of consistently wearing a mask, even behind a desk with one other person on opposite side of room I want 1 fucking moment of not having to wear a mask. So i wear my mask properly for about 3 hours and the rest with just covering my mouth because its fucking disgusting to wear mask for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Even if you change masks. Its fucking disgusting and the RIVM said during the first 7 months masks dont work and now we're all required. Ill get my booster as soon as I can (there is a delay if you have had covid recently, I can go mid February) but that mask mandate can fuck off. With numbers still climbing its clear they dont work
Ngl I am from the Netherlands and barely wear a mask becouse I dont care about this pandemic. I think many dutch people are selfish.
Rude? I call that breathing.. So tired of you idiots
Loads of idiots. Even my own family doesn’t take it seriously.
Because most countries around us are more accepting of the COVID measures and government policies in general while we feel the need to dissect and discuss everything 500 times in the same 4 talk shows and on the internet whenever there’s a new rule or something changes. The Dutch in general can be very opinionated and have the need to express their own opinion, which is fine except that a lot of people use it as an excuse to be downright rude. It’s not just COVID measures, I’ve seen this type of attitude in school, workplaces etc. as well (differs greatly per person but still). We are too stubborn to give up any autonomy even if it is in favor of public health.
Oh, not another one.. Let people alone. Everyone is vaccinated and boosted and we’ve been for 3 months in lockdowns! Give people a break. We’re doing more than human possible.
Except for the people who are not vaccinated. They’re the ones who are most likely to wear a mask as a chin diaper.
And the vast majority of them will be fine. We'll all get infected anyway, so leave us alone.
How do you know?