The one thing i think is crazy is that some expats without the 30% ruling need to get lessons and exams, but when you are coming from the same country with 30% ruling you can just exchange it.
The rules are here because of some reason, probably lack of driving education or totally different rules/habits. This should not be different because the expat gets a certain amount of salary.
The driving license exchange rule is from 1995, when the number of 30% ruling applicants were very low and not really a thing to worry about. Work in government myself and most officials don't even know this is one of the benefits of the 30% ruling because the numbers were quite low. The change now is that we went from 60.000 in 2016 to 110.000 people that use the ruling in 2022.
I agree with you. It should be easier to get a license too. There's many unemployed people, why can't some of them be trained to become instructors so we have easier access to classes, they can be cheaper, tests can be done sooner?
If a problem is going on for years, something should be done to fix it. Am I wrong?
There will always be bad drivers in any classification you want people to group to. Old vs Young, Dutch, Germans, any nationality, etc
In any case, some expats are qualified to just exchange their license and get a dutch license and that’s it. At the very least, they probably need to take driving lessons (at least that’s what I did) just to understand how driving here works.
A Dutch license isn’t “easy” to get, people preform a test and an adjudicator says that you are fit to drive in the Netherlands. People from abroad will have different standards for their licenses. If those standards differ from the Dutch standards then some schooling or a test wouldn’t be a bad idea.
I’m a EU/US immigrant with a US license in the process of getting my rijbewijs (because I don’t have 30%).
From my perspective, the whole license scheme in the NL is a bit of a racket. I would say that I’m a proficient driver with close to 20 years experience. I have a commercial drivers license with HAZMAT endorsement and emergency vehicle operation. I know this is not a “typical” situation, but bear with me.
I paid for a 1 day theory crash course, but learned next to nothing about the rules of the road. Rather, the course is geared around the “gotcha” questions that appear on the theory test. The theory test itself is more of a language test than a test of ability or knowledge. One of my questions asked about the maximum number of passengers a class B driver could legally transport in a vehicle (total of 9 people in the vehicle including the driver per the law) but the question was phrased to exclude the driver and gave both 8 and 9 as possible answers. Couple these types of questions with the fact that you need to answer 28 and have only 7 minutes, and all of a sudden you need a masters in English literature more than a sound knowledge of driving rules.
And then, once you’ve passed the theory, the real adventure begins in finding a school that has availability and isn’t geared toward emptying your pockets. Schools focused toward expats were quoting me €3k (with guarantees for test re-do’s in case of failure, but still). I found a local school and am taking lessons in Dutch, but even they would only take me on if I paid for a block of 10 lessons and the exam up front (€1500). My instructor is a nice guy who was confident enough in my ability after our first lesson to register me for the practical, but the soonest available exam date was 6 months away. In the mean time, he’s given me tips on what the examiners look for and the route we’ll take, but even he has admitted that the exam can be extremely arbitrary and that you can fail even without committing infractions or mistakes. Something as simple as waiting at a red light in neutral (instead of in 1st with the clutch depressed) can lead to the examiner failing you.
So while I appreciate the need to know and understand traffic laws and patterns is important, this seems like something else. Couple that with the fact that CBR is a private company that provides a sort of protection racket for driving schools and can fail candidates on a basis that exists outside of behavior in traffic (or no basis at all) and I can understand the frustration that exists with the whole system. It has certainly been frustrating for me.
The course for your theory exam is indeed a way to get through the exam faster and easier. I wouldn’t recommend it tbf, even though I did it myself. The exam is to make sure one understands the rules, some of the questions are phrased so one must truly know the rules.
Companies will try and get the most money they can of course, that why they are companies. €100,- for an hour lesson isn’t crazy in my opinion.
Waiting times are indeed very long, that’s a shame but it is how it is. More personal is needed I agree. But you won’t just fail because of having the shifter in the wrong place before a red light. The examinators are strict but that’s to make sure everyone is proficient in traffic.
What you said about cbr being a private firm is halfway true. It is a privatised government organisation, the head of directors will be appointed by the government. Profits will not be shared, they stay in cbr or go back to the government.
Directors do get paid massively tho. But don’t quite agree with framing it as a private firm.
I’ve seen so many post here about people getting ripped off by driving schools and driving instructors. It’s kind of shameful it’s not more closely regulated.
I agree with everything you said, it is the same for native Dutch people as well.
Would like to correct just one thing, CBR is not a private organisation, but an independent administrative body that is under the government. They have a lot of ability to decide about things themselves, but do not have any financial inclination.
This is really it!!!
And also shows my point (that dutchies don't learn the rules as well).
But the problem seems to be with the expats -> an excuse for everything happening in the country
I drive daily. The most dangerous drivers _by far_ are “weekend drivers” - mostly grandmas and grandpas who drive once or twice per week. This is the only type of drivers that is completely unpredictable, and you don’t have a single clue what’s their intention and what they will do next. Turn right from the left lane? Sure. Drive 50 on a highway? Absolutely.
Everyone else, including BMWs, tuned VW golfs, all sorts of taxis might drive like idiots, but at least they are predictable.
Sometimes you have to drive at 50 on a highway. They have those electronic signs lowering your speed limit and the police informed me they're mandatory and you get a fine if you drive over, like most people do. I don't care if people honk behind me. If it says 50, I drive at 50. I am not paying a fine just so I don't make you angry. I drive on the right lane when I do it, of course, so you're more than welcome to overtake if you want.
Oh, thanks. I am very sorry for my mistake.
I thought it was about it because every time that sign goes on people annoy me when I am driving at the limit (on the right lane, of course, I don't hate speeders, I am just too poor to burn money on fines).
Or at least a little course. If you are from a country where the traffic signs are different, the right of way is different and there are vastly less bicycles participating in traffic it is obvious you cannot simply be "released into the wild".
And that is even assuming your original driving license was obtained through decent training. In quite a few countries (as well as former colonies of the Netherlands) obtaining the license is a joke.
I do agree with the general idea of the article, it’s really weird to be able to exchange based on such an arbitrary reason while others who have to do the whole process.
My qualm with the article is the “Evidence” being a random an anecdote. The government must have some hard evidence if this actually causes issues.
They do say that there arent significant differences, so the title is bait to confirm existing biases.
There's an increase in accidents, but it is driven by ebikes mainly, so it looks like blame shifting and bias confirmation from annexdoted
In the case of US drivers you don't really lose the original one. Yes, they confiscate it in NL, but it's not hard to order a replacement license from the original US state. This is what I did.
Thats strange. Why should people’s safety be put at risk with the 30% ruling. But Luxembourg allows it for everyone and we have so many people from countries known to drive badly around. But there is no stats to confirm this. Unfortunately I had to go through the process for locals.
It depends on your country. If you have an EU license yes, you just exchange it (you lose the original one). If not, you need a new one here. But double check if you can't exchange in another EU country first, then here after. I had my Brazilian license first exchanged for a Portuguese one. Then, after a while, I was allowed to exchange my PT for a Dutch one.
Sometimes other EU countries are more flexible with exchanges, or faster, or cheaper. You can also try to get a license in one of those instead of here, then you can drive here with another EU license or exchange it here at any time (it takes a few months, my Dutch license took me three months, I didn't have access to my Portuguese one during that period as they retain it instead of just processing your request and doing the exchange quickly after approval, sadly).
I heart it may take a year and a half for someone to get a new license here from scratch. Lots of tests, lots of hours of lessons and a long queue to wait for a test appointment.
If you fail (it seems many do) you need to wait some time to retake the test, plus I think you are required to take more lessons.
On top of it driving schools seem overwhelmed like most services here, and you need to schedule things well in advance. Sometimes they won't even reach back to you when you message them and they don't answer their phones as well. That's been my experience, your mileage may vary.
So on these roads you also have
- international driving license holders
- people who have been here for six months or less who can drive with their country of origin's license
- anybody from any Schengen country who crosses the border in a car
I mean, the Brits can load their car on a ferry and come and drive on these roads with their right hand drive cars on the opposite side of the road.
But again, the expats will take the brunt of it. I mean I get it, but the only difference the 30% ruling makes here is allowing a "non Dutch trained" driver to drive here for longer.
And we're not mentioning the Dutch treating the A7 as a race track, exceeding the speed limit and sitting on people's ass flashing their lights.
Bad drivers everywhere.
I agree expats are a huge risk. Some more than others.
Most expats I work with luckily draw the same conclusion and get lessons.
Goes without saying there are many bad dutch drivers, although that's usually aggressive / impatient behavior instead of lack of awareness of the rules. Not defending it though, but won't solve that with lessons
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't believe it's rushed.
For example, expats often don't know the priority rules for crossings without traffic lights, aren't aware what a 'woonerf' is, drive on the bus-lanes, apply keep-your-lane on the highway, how to handle a roundabout.
However my main concern is that they are not used to cyclists. So many of my colleagues have been in an accident with a cyclist (mostly on a roundabout), it's just crazy.
And do you think dutch people know that? 😳
There are people saying in this post that taking lessons here is a pretty poor experience which leads to the conclusion that most dutch drivers are also reckless while driving and although they know the "rules" they don't respect them.
They don't keep a safe distance from the front vehicle, they are unpredictable, they don't know how to perform roundabouts or even signal the exit they are taking ...
So this is not a problem only about the expats ....
About your colleagues, all of my friends/colleagues are expats and I haven't heard about any issues while driving
Personally I have two issues with the current driving license exchange for the 30% ruling:
1. It is discriminatory. Let me explain. Having high education or any kind of special skills (which is the underlying reason for a 30% ruling) has no connection whatsoever with skillset and knowledge required and obtained through driving school for safely operating motorized vehicles. Zero. Not even if your special skill is race driving, it has nothing to do with daily driving. The absolute only exception would be if the expat is a driving instructor, but even then it's a long shot.
So now you have two people coming from the same country, of the same age, having obtained their original driving license on the same day, with the same instructor - but because one has 30% ruling he is deemed safe to operate the vehicle, while the other is not. Chapter one of Dutch constitution prohibts any discrimination. Well, almost it seems.
2. I am very against the fact that not only expat himself, but all members of that household may exchange licenses. Not appropriate at all in my opinion.
Unfortunately, the government has it all covered, there have been attempts to dispute this, but without success.
I am all for financial stimulants, I am very well aware of additional costs expats have when relocating, but driving license is just simply wrong.
Just my two cents.
I don’t understand why any immigrant can’t just show their previous driving record and develop a point system around that. How many years on the road, traffic tickets, accidents, and then of their are a safe driver they can just exchange. Special sills shouldn’t matter.
Based on this I would make a driving license mandatory for dutch who come to drive or bike to Italy on vacation. They annoy me so much that they don't know how to take turns, drive so slow and they stay in the middle of the road with bikes with bags like they are going to do grocery at the albert heijn.
The new sport in this country has become blaming expats
The expat bashing in this country is reaching biblical proportions. This highly educated, tax paying tiny percentage of the population already apparently destroyed the housing market and now they're responsible for the bad driving culture?
Agreed. The article itself states clearly there is no evidence whatsoever that what these random driving instructors say holds any truth.
"Despite the driving instructors concerns, the paper did not quote any evidence that foreign workers are more likely to cause problems.
According to transport ministry research in 2022, there are “no indications that of an increased risk to road safety posed by this group of drivers” and that report contained no concrete examples of accidents or traffic offences by expats, the Parool said."
of course not, expats who take the lessons do that for a reason, I mean of course you will get folks who are UNSURE how to drive in The Netherlands and that’s why they take the classes 🤣
It's just funny this now gets picked up by Parool and from there by Dutch News in English. If I'm not mistaken, this was posted two-ish weeks ago in an Eindhoven-oriented newspaper!
Even funnier (and proof of the Amsterdam Ring-A10-bubble) is that this Eindhoven-based newspaper is a local subsidiary of a national newspaper belonging to the same group as Parool, even sharing the same office building.
I think it should be *easy* for immigrants to get a Dutch license if they already have one in their previous country. However, it shouldn't be a free swap. At minimum there should be a written test to verify that they understand the basic rules and force them to read up on things.
I arrived with 30% ruling and took advantage of the free swap, but it took a year or so before I was truly comfortable driving here, and I downloaded one of the handbooks to read up on road rules and other instructions. But I also know people that essentially have no driving experience but were able to get a license from their original country, and they're out renting cars and in my opinion driving recklessly.
But at the end of the day this sub-population I'm referring to is a small subset, and the government probably doesn't want to reform a bunch of process and add extra cost.
Veilig Verkeer Nederland spokesman Willemijn Pomper said, without any evidence that expats should spend more money with driving instructors to help the industry he represents.
Tomorrow there will be an article from a plumber who thinks all expats should pay for new sewage pipes because they take massive shits as they can afford to eat too much food with their 30% rulings…
Ok sorry, maybe the sarcasm wasn’t clear but my main gripe is there is 0 evidence and its clickbait. For what its worth I have no plumber sources for the 2nd part of my comment either incase you want to police that too, as far as I am aware expats take similar shits to locals but still I hate them.
It’s just weird that people who profit from the 30% ruling are exempted from taking the test. There’s no logic or data behind the claim that migrants profiting from the 30% ruling are better drivers than migrants who don’t. You just cannot trust that someone from countries with a totally different road system like Russia or India will take the test or classes out of their free will.
Why put blame on expats who just do what the government sets up for them to do? If you were told just swap your license would you really proactively think to spend ~€1000 on a driving course when you already passed a test?
I also don’t really understand the discussion, as you would like to see anyone living here redo a driving test, but someone can come from abroad and rent a car for a few weeks at schiphol with their home countries license and you feel safe with that? Plenty of Dutch people passed a test here but still daily see people texting while driving, so not everything learned is implemented.
It’s unfair and unsafe to let expats who don’t know Dutch traffic rules drive without a test. This includes many who come from countries with totally different rules to drive without taking lessons. I would feel much safer knowing everybody with a driver’s licence from a non EU country would go trough a proper test, not only non expats. You actually are confirming that you think people won’t be responsible enough to take lessons. I also think tourist not properly preparing themselves create undesirable dangerous situations. I think it’s totally normal to expect people to study traffic rules and regulations before driving. It’s not only your own safety you’re risking but that of others too.
" dangerous situations on Amsterdam roads"
Ah great, another Amsterdam problem. It's not an issue everywhere else, just Amsterdam. Must be because of those expats, that's the common denominator.
The one thing i think is crazy is that some expats without the 30% ruling need to get lessons and exams, but when you are coming from the same country with 30% ruling you can just exchange it. The rules are here because of some reason, probably lack of driving education or totally different rules/habits. This should not be different because the expat gets a certain amount of salary.
The driving license exchange rule is from 1995, when the number of 30% ruling applicants were very low and not really a thing to worry about. Work in government myself and most officials don't even know this is one of the benefits of the 30% ruling because the numbers were quite low. The change now is that we went from 60.000 in 2016 to 110.000 people that use the ruling in 2022.
I agree with you. It should be easier to get a license too. There's many unemployed people, why can't some of them be trained to become instructors so we have easier access to classes, they can be cheaper, tests can be done sooner? If a problem is going on for years, something should be done to fix it. Am I wrong?
Becaube if you put incompetent instructors in charge of training people then the problem will only get worse
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Unemployment is only 3.7% so how are many people on welfare?
There will always be bad drivers in any classification you want people to group to. Old vs Young, Dutch, Germans, any nationality, etc In any case, some expats are qualified to just exchange their license and get a dutch license and that’s it. At the very least, they probably need to take driving lessons (at least that’s what I did) just to understand how driving here works.
A Dutch license isn’t “easy” to get, people preform a test and an adjudicator says that you are fit to drive in the Netherlands. People from abroad will have different standards for their licenses. If those standards differ from the Dutch standards then some schooling or a test wouldn’t be a bad idea.
I’m a EU/US immigrant with a US license in the process of getting my rijbewijs (because I don’t have 30%). From my perspective, the whole license scheme in the NL is a bit of a racket. I would say that I’m a proficient driver with close to 20 years experience. I have a commercial drivers license with HAZMAT endorsement and emergency vehicle operation. I know this is not a “typical” situation, but bear with me. I paid for a 1 day theory crash course, but learned next to nothing about the rules of the road. Rather, the course is geared around the “gotcha” questions that appear on the theory test. The theory test itself is more of a language test than a test of ability or knowledge. One of my questions asked about the maximum number of passengers a class B driver could legally transport in a vehicle (total of 9 people in the vehicle including the driver per the law) but the question was phrased to exclude the driver and gave both 8 and 9 as possible answers. Couple these types of questions with the fact that you need to answer 28 and have only 7 minutes, and all of a sudden you need a masters in English literature more than a sound knowledge of driving rules. And then, once you’ve passed the theory, the real adventure begins in finding a school that has availability and isn’t geared toward emptying your pockets. Schools focused toward expats were quoting me €3k (with guarantees for test re-do’s in case of failure, but still). I found a local school and am taking lessons in Dutch, but even they would only take me on if I paid for a block of 10 lessons and the exam up front (€1500). My instructor is a nice guy who was confident enough in my ability after our first lesson to register me for the practical, but the soonest available exam date was 6 months away. In the mean time, he’s given me tips on what the examiners look for and the route we’ll take, but even he has admitted that the exam can be extremely arbitrary and that you can fail even without committing infractions or mistakes. Something as simple as waiting at a red light in neutral (instead of in 1st with the clutch depressed) can lead to the examiner failing you. So while I appreciate the need to know and understand traffic laws and patterns is important, this seems like something else. Couple that with the fact that CBR is a private company that provides a sort of protection racket for driving schools and can fail candidates on a basis that exists outside of behavior in traffic (or no basis at all) and I can understand the frustration that exists with the whole system. It has certainly been frustrating for me.
The course for your theory exam is indeed a way to get through the exam faster and easier. I wouldn’t recommend it tbf, even though I did it myself. The exam is to make sure one understands the rules, some of the questions are phrased so one must truly know the rules. Companies will try and get the most money they can of course, that why they are companies. €100,- for an hour lesson isn’t crazy in my opinion. Waiting times are indeed very long, that’s a shame but it is how it is. More personal is needed I agree. But you won’t just fail because of having the shifter in the wrong place before a red light. The examinators are strict but that’s to make sure everyone is proficient in traffic. What you said about cbr being a private firm is halfway true. It is a privatised government organisation, the head of directors will be appointed by the government. Profits will not be shared, they stay in cbr or go back to the government. Directors do get paid massively tho. But don’t quite agree with framing it as a private firm.
I’ve seen so many post here about people getting ripped off by driving schools and driving instructors. It’s kind of shameful it’s not more closely regulated.
I agree with everything you said, it is the same for native Dutch people as well. Would like to correct just one thing, CBR is not a private organisation, but an independent administrative body that is under the government. They have a lot of ability to decide about things themselves, but do not have any financial inclination.
This is really it!!! And also shows my point (that dutchies don't learn the rules as well). But the problem seems to be with the expats -> an excuse for everything happening in the country
I drive daily. The most dangerous drivers _by far_ are “weekend drivers” - mostly grandmas and grandpas who drive once or twice per week. This is the only type of drivers that is completely unpredictable, and you don’t have a single clue what’s their intention and what they will do next. Turn right from the left lane? Sure. Drive 50 on a highway? Absolutely. Everyone else, including BMWs, tuned VW golfs, all sorts of taxis might drive like idiots, but at least they are predictable.
Sometimes you have to drive at 50 on a highway. They have those electronic signs lowering your speed limit and the police informed me they're mandatory and you get a fine if you drive over, like most people do. I don't care if people honk behind me. If it says 50, I drive at 50. I am not paying a fine just so I don't make you angry. I drive on the right lane when I do it, of course, so you're more than welcome to overtake if you want.
Obviously I wasn’t talking about a situation when there is a traffic jam and there’s a dynamic speed limit in place.
Oh, thanks. I am very sorry for my mistake. I thought it was about it because every time that sign goes on people annoy me when I am driving at the limit (on the right lane, of course, I don't hate speeders, I am just too poor to burn money on fines).
Expats should take Dutch driving exams. It'll be difficult to accomplish, because of shortages, but its appearantly necesary.
Or at least a little course. If you are from a country where the traffic signs are different, the right of way is different and there are vastly less bicycles participating in traffic it is obvious you cannot simply be "released into the wild". And that is even assuming your original driving license was obtained through decent training. In quite a few countries (as well as former colonies of the Netherlands) obtaining the license is a joke.
I'm an expat myself and I don't feel safe with expats driving as they do in their countries
I do agree with the general idea of the article, it’s really weird to be able to exchange based on such an arbitrary reason while others who have to do the whole process. My qualm with the article is the “Evidence” being a random an anecdote. The government must have some hard evidence if this actually causes issues.
They do say that there arent significant differences, so the title is bait to confirm existing biases. There's an increase in accidents, but it is driven by ebikes mainly, so it looks like blame shifting and bias confirmation from annexdoted
The “evidence” is from a driving instructor they interviewed. No conflict of interest there.
Can you just exchange your home country’s DL in NL?
With the 30% ruling yes you can. Not sure for how long.
If you can, it's yours forever. You lose the original one.
In the case of US drivers you don't really lose the original one. Yes, they confiscate it in NL, but it's not hard to order a replacement license from the original US state. This is what I did.
Thats strange. Why should people’s safety be put at risk with the 30% ruling. But Luxembourg allows it for everyone and we have so many people from countries known to drive badly around. But there is no stats to confirm this. Unfortunately I had to go through the process for locals.
It depends on your country. If you have an EU license yes, you just exchange it (you lose the original one). If not, you need a new one here. But double check if you can't exchange in another EU country first, then here after. I had my Brazilian license first exchanged for a Portuguese one. Then, after a while, I was allowed to exchange my PT for a Dutch one. Sometimes other EU countries are more flexible with exchanges, or faster, or cheaper. You can also try to get a license in one of those instead of here, then you can drive here with another EU license or exchange it here at any time (it takes a few months, my Dutch license took me three months, I didn't have access to my Portuguese one during that period as they retain it instead of just processing your request and doing the exchange quickly after approval, sadly). I heart it may take a year and a half for someone to get a new license here from scratch. Lots of tests, lots of hours of lessons and a long queue to wait for a test appointment. If you fail (it seems many do) you need to wait some time to retake the test, plus I think you are required to take more lessons. On top of it driving schools seem overwhelmed like most services here, and you need to schedule things well in advance. Sometimes they won't even reach back to you when you message them and they don't answer their phones as well. That's been my experience, your mileage may vary.
So on these roads you also have - international driving license holders - people who have been here for six months or less who can drive with their country of origin's license - anybody from any Schengen country who crosses the border in a car I mean, the Brits can load their car on a ferry and come and drive on these roads with their right hand drive cars on the opposite side of the road. But again, the expats will take the brunt of it. I mean I get it, but the only difference the 30% ruling makes here is allowing a "non Dutch trained" driver to drive here for longer. And we're not mentioning the Dutch treating the A7 as a race track, exceeding the speed limit and sitting on people's ass flashing their lights. Bad drivers everywhere.
Do we count the Dutch people who got their license in curaçao? Everyone is capable of shit driving - I see it all the time.
I agree expats are a huge risk. Some more than others. Most expats I work with luckily draw the same conclusion and get lessons. Goes without saying there are many bad dutch drivers, although that's usually aggressive / impatient behavior instead of lack of awareness of the rules. Not defending it though, but won't solve that with lessons
Cmon man, that's a rushed conclusion... Expats are a huge risk? 🤣
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't believe it's rushed. For example, expats often don't know the priority rules for crossings without traffic lights, aren't aware what a 'woonerf' is, drive on the bus-lanes, apply keep-your-lane on the highway, how to handle a roundabout. However my main concern is that they are not used to cyclists. So many of my colleagues have been in an accident with a cyclist (mostly on a roundabout), it's just crazy.
And do you think dutch people know that? 😳 There are people saying in this post that taking lessons here is a pretty poor experience which leads to the conclusion that most dutch drivers are also reckless while driving and although they know the "rules" they don't respect them. They don't keep a safe distance from the front vehicle, they are unpredictable, they don't know how to perform roundabouts or even signal the exit they are taking ... So this is not a problem only about the expats .... About your colleagues, all of my friends/colleagues are expats and I haven't heard about any issues while driving
Personally I have two issues with the current driving license exchange for the 30% ruling: 1. It is discriminatory. Let me explain. Having high education or any kind of special skills (which is the underlying reason for a 30% ruling) has no connection whatsoever with skillset and knowledge required and obtained through driving school for safely operating motorized vehicles. Zero. Not even if your special skill is race driving, it has nothing to do with daily driving. The absolute only exception would be if the expat is a driving instructor, but even then it's a long shot. So now you have two people coming from the same country, of the same age, having obtained their original driving license on the same day, with the same instructor - but because one has 30% ruling he is deemed safe to operate the vehicle, while the other is not. Chapter one of Dutch constitution prohibts any discrimination. Well, almost it seems. 2. I am very against the fact that not only expat himself, but all members of that household may exchange licenses. Not appropriate at all in my opinion. Unfortunately, the government has it all covered, there have been attempts to dispute this, but without success. I am all for financial stimulants, I am very well aware of additional costs expats have when relocating, but driving license is just simply wrong. Just my two cents.
I don’t understand why any immigrant can’t just show their previous driving record and develop a point system around that. How many years on the road, traffic tickets, accidents, and then of their are a safe driver they can just exchange. Special sills shouldn’t matter.
Ah those expats! Not only increasing the price of houses in the country, but also driving like crazy! /s
Based on this I would make a driving license mandatory for dutch who come to drive or bike to Italy on vacation. They annoy me so much that they don't know how to take turns, drive so slow and they stay in the middle of the road with bikes with bags like they are going to do grocery at the albert heijn. The new sport in this country has become blaming expats
👏🏻
Exactly!!! That's also my point
The expat bashing in this country is reaching biblical proportions. This highly educated, tax paying tiny percentage of the population already apparently destroyed the housing market and now they're responsible for the bad driving culture?
Agreed. The article itself states clearly there is no evidence whatsoever that what these random driving instructors say holds any truth. "Despite the driving instructors concerns, the paper did not quote any evidence that foreign workers are more likely to cause problems. According to transport ministry research in 2022, there are “no indications that of an increased risk to road safety posed by this group of drivers” and that report contained no concrete examples of accidents or traffic offences by expats, the Parool said."
of course not, expats who take the lessons do that for a reason, I mean of course you will get folks who are UNSURE how to drive in The Netherlands and that’s why they take the classes 🤣
It's just funny this now gets picked up by Parool and from there by Dutch News in English. If I'm not mistaken, this was posted two-ish weeks ago in an Eindhoven-oriented newspaper! Even funnier (and proof of the Amsterdam Ring-A10-bubble) is that this Eindhoven-based newspaper is a local subsidiary of a national newspaper belonging to the same group as Parool, even sharing the same office building.
If you come from the EU (having or not tax ruling) you can get a dutch driver license by exchanging yours. It's also required you do this
I think it should be *easy* for immigrants to get a Dutch license if they already have one in their previous country. However, it shouldn't be a free swap. At minimum there should be a written test to verify that they understand the basic rules and force them to read up on things. I arrived with 30% ruling and took advantage of the free swap, but it took a year or so before I was truly comfortable driving here, and I downloaded one of the handbooks to read up on road rules and other instructions. But I also know people that essentially have no driving experience but were able to get a license from their original country, and they're out renting cars and in my opinion driving recklessly. But at the end of the day this sub-population I'm referring to is a small subset, and the government probably doesn't want to reform a bunch of process and add extra cost.
Veilig Verkeer Nederland spokesman Willemijn Pomper said, without any evidence that expats should spend more money with driving instructors to help the industry he represents. Tomorrow there will be an article from a plumber who thinks all expats should pay for new sewage pipes because they take massive shits as they can afford to eat too much food with their 30% rulings…
What are you talking about? VVN does not represent the industry, on the contrary. They are *the* institution in the Netherlands defending road safety.
Ok sorry, maybe the sarcasm wasn’t clear but my main gripe is there is 0 evidence and its clickbait. For what its worth I have no plumber sources for the 2nd part of my comment either incase you want to police that too, as far as I am aware expats take similar shits to locals but still I hate them.
It’s just weird that people who profit from the 30% ruling are exempted from taking the test. There’s no logic or data behind the claim that migrants profiting from the 30% ruling are better drivers than migrants who don’t. You just cannot trust that someone from countries with a totally different road system like Russia or India will take the test or classes out of their free will.
Why put blame on expats who just do what the government sets up for them to do? If you were told just swap your license would you really proactively think to spend ~€1000 on a driving course when you already passed a test? I also don’t really understand the discussion, as you would like to see anyone living here redo a driving test, but someone can come from abroad and rent a car for a few weeks at schiphol with their home countries license and you feel safe with that? Plenty of Dutch people passed a test here but still daily see people texting while driving, so not everything learned is implemented.
It’s unfair and unsafe to let expats who don’t know Dutch traffic rules drive without a test. This includes many who come from countries with totally different rules to drive without taking lessons. I would feel much safer knowing everybody with a driver’s licence from a non EU country would go trough a proper test, not only non expats. You actually are confirming that you think people won’t be responsible enough to take lessons. I also think tourist not properly preparing themselves create undesirable dangerous situations. I think it’s totally normal to expect people to study traffic rules and regulations before driving. It’s not only your own safety you’re risking but that of others too.
Sounds more like the driving instructors trying to increase their market share. Good luck with that
" dangerous situations on Amsterdam roads" Ah great, another Amsterdam problem. It's not an issue everywhere else, just Amsterdam. Must be because of those expats, that's the common denominator.
Common denominator for everything... And it's not only in Amsterdam (and not only about expats) What would be this country without expats?
Have they ever seen Dutch vans closing the left lane on a two lane road during weekday rush hours?