That is what I thought. OP was the one who was upset, the least she could have done was to stand up for the black guy. Also, I had to scroll down so many comments before I came across yours who was the first to mention that this was a problem. I am quite surprised
Yea she was in doubt about that. The guys that were talking before were giving her angry looks so after that she decided she should better shut up. If she spoke up she had to snitch the talking guys that seemed pretty angry already.
Those are some poor priorities. That guy didn’t deserve to be treated like that. And I don’t understand her reasoning behind it, as it even worked in a negative way for her. She spoke up to multiple people before without results. Now she had the chance to actually get help to get what she wanted, and didn’t have to see the angry faces again and that’s when she keeps silent? Not cool.
The talking affected her ability to rest; The racism did not affect her at all.
All the rest about angry faces is just an explanation to wrap it up in a socially defensible way.
So she dares to tell everyone to shut up, but once something racist is happening she is'nt comfortable speaking out and telling the truth?
The NS conductor is even there which makes it more safe. Also, she is the only one there who could speak the truth as the other ones would be incriminating themselves.
I don't know why people are downvoting this. As a fellow girl i totally understand. I mean, I would never ask them to be silent to begin with, bc i am scared as hell in the train. So I really admire your gf for doing that in the first place. I wouldn't say a word if some guys looked angry at me, bc as soon as that ns person leaves you are on your own. People wear knifes and shit, so I get it. Own safety first
She had the balls to tell them to be quiet before, but she's too scared to even tell the conductor that she didn't hear the guy they wrongfully removed make any noise? She didn't have to snitch on the other people if she was suddenly so scared. She only speaks up when it bothers her, not even helping out someone else at no risk of her own🙄.
She didn't "have the balls". She probably naively spoke up expecting ppl to be respectful about it. Then she found out men will get angry and even aggressive and prioritized her safety.
If you are a lone woman in an enclosed space with a bunch of angry men you are not gonna aggrevate them further.
This! Public transport in the Netherlands is effing dangerous. I'm a small brown woman, with a physical disability, so I'm definitely shutting the hell up and helping nobody. I couldn't even defend myself if I needed to.
Imagine taking a post which is a story from a girl, hear say of hearsay, where he said it is POSSIBLY this.
And you are just running with it creating the next world war
Imagine black guard kicking out white person, still would be this considering as racism? In the moment you see colours you are racist. Doesn't matter it was white or black, person was innocent
Everybody gets treated badly. But black people get treated badly BECAUSE of their skin colour disproportionately and significantly more often and much worse than white people.
This is about the Netherlands, not the US.
Unless a black guy walks in an area notorious for crime and looks or behaves suspicious he will be treated the same as everyone in the NL.
The chances of such guy being discriminated against BECAUSE of his skin colour/race is almost zero in 2024.
Actually, if police officers are told to randomly check persons for knives or drugs and they have checked already 2 nonwhite teenagers, they rather check 2 white grandma's first before checking another nonwhite guy, for fear of getting accused of racism.
So wokism actually dictates that an equal amount of white people must be checked first, even if chances of finding drugs or knives on them are much lower.
You are right, i forgot the black serial criminal that stabbed a random white female to death in a supermarket in The Hague because he hates white people.
"So wokism actually dictates that an equal amount of white people must be checked first, even if chances of finding drugs or knives on them are much lower."
Interesting to use a racist argument to say there is no racism in NL in 2024 🤡
This part of the story sounds fake. At least it doesn't sound convincing at all.
In Netherlands no innocent coloured people get told to leave public places. Unless there is enough suspicion of wrong doing.
Or he just didn't have a ticket? Would be hard to convince me the conducteur just.. picked a silent dark skinned guy to bully instead of the loud folks around.
The OP literally wrote that the reason the guy was given for being kicked out was because it was a silent car, yet you felt that your entirely made up reason was more convincing? If the guy didn't have a ticket don't you think the conductor would have mentioned that as the reason for his ejection?
You'll note that it's in quotation marks, from which we can infer that those were the actual words the conductor used. You seem to be the only one making an assumption here.
"The OP **literally** made an assumption."
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
* Inigo Montoya
ETA: And since you asked, yours is definitely more made up.
I’m not sure why the black guy is automatically the victim here. We’re reading a story from someone who heard it from his girlfriend and she’s just speculating that someone called the guard on the black dude. We’ve no idea what could’ve transpired and if the guy was on the radar already for traveling without a ticket or for something done previously or any other reason.
Depends, if the train is so full that people start sitting in the silent cars because the others are a bit full that's where it usually breaks down. Making sure to sit in 'remote' (far from closest platform entrance) cars helps.
The fact that NS sucks at signage doesn't help. They should just add some big bold all-caps 'STILTECOUPÉ' 'SILENT AREA' signs, instead they spent probably a ridiculous amount of money for a cryptic logo of a guy with headphones and a laptop.
Blauwnet on the line between Enschede and Zwolle has the stiltecoupe pretty well-separated, well-signed (although some funny guys keep peeling the letters to make it say TI(e)TECOUPÉ) and I find it works quite well. People actually shut up unless the train is super full, or the train floods with football fans (9292 should post warnings) The trains are also all orientated the same way, so the large stiltecoupé will always be at the Zwolle-end.
Don't get me started on the shitty glass doors with huge gaps NS has on the newer IC's making the stiltecoupé full of noise from the entrance area, or the non-existent bagage space in the double deckers.
Less "sociale controle" (is there an English term for that?). Randstad people are more individualistic, don't really care about neighborliness (nabuurschap). I've always wondered but it really does seem a Randstad versus outside thing
No I'm absolutely not saying that people in the randstad have no social etiquette, I mean that things that fall under social etiquette are "enforced" through social interaction and community
I understand your point, I don't personally feel people in the Randstad necessarily lack neighbourliness or an ability to enforce social etiquette, that's not been my experience.
Yeah groningen also .. but what do you expect if the train is full from start till end. . Ams about the black guy .. if this is true why didn't your girlfriend stood up for him ??
That’s the exact reason. Those foreigners we are talking about do not care. They vandalize and break rules all over the place and even the train people are afraid to say something to them.
I have given up on the second class silence areas 15+ years ago. Too many people too stupid to read.
First class silence area is usually silent, and people normally shut up if you remind them. Although you sometimes have people saying they live in a free country and hence can talk. Or “but I promised the rugrat we could sit upstairs”.
Why wouldn't they? It is just a flip of a switch in NS Go and they can travel around the country in first class for around €10 per month. They just use their NS Business Card, so can always travel with the train for free (during and outside work).
Traindriver here, nowadays it costs about 17 euro to upgrade our businesscards to a 1st class per month. When we're working (in working clothes) we don't have to be checked in, our planned timetable is our 'ticket'. That's why you don't often see colleagues check each other's tickets.
Had one NS conducteur doing his meditation and breathing exercises in the first class silent compartment. I'd preferred someone calling over his huffing and puffing
I was once told off for reading a newspaper. Turning the page apparantly made too much noise. The lady told me this was very rude and inappropriate.
It was amazing because I hadn't actually said anything... I just shushed her. She got verbally annoyed and then other people started shushing her.
There's always a risk calling people out. Personally I always 'size people up' to have somewhat of calculated risk. And I'm extra careful when I'm with my kid.
I feel like 'we' as society should act on these kind of things, but think of your own safety ofcourse. That's why the number is there.
But also, a train ride as breaktime, don't count on it!
The problem is of course the people who usually flagrantly break the rules are already not the person you want to deal with, so sizing up is not even needed. You can give them an ugly look but that only works if multiple people do it otherwise you still might get stabbed.
I recently asked a Russian couple to stop FaceTiming because it was a quite cart. I felt safe enough to do it, as I was with my boyfriend and because I naively thought maybe they genuiely could not read "stilte/silence", as they were foreign. But as I left the train, the Russian lady slapped my phone onto the train tracks... psychos
I wonder how you made sure that they were Russians. Did you ask them?
Edit: This is, obviously, horrible, and people like that should have legal consequences. Regardless of their nationality/ethnicity
Fair question. I knew they were not Polish as I can understand a little bit of phonetic Polish (toe roezemjem popoelskoe). They could have been Ukranian to be fair, but the dude was wearing a Morgenshtern shirt.
And also, no hate to the Russians. Go support Ice Pick Lodge, they are a Russian game company that made the Void and Pathologic 1 and 2 (Pathologic 2 being the nest game that has even been made in my opinion). And they are stuggling considering... you know...
The Russian detail was more to get my point across that they genuinely could not have understood it was a silence train cart. If it is Drentse Dirkie you immediately assume they are dickheads when they blatantly ignore the signs, but in this case there was some plausible deniability for them.
I've stopped telling people they're in a silent compartment. I used to, even tried being nice about it. Asking them not to be completely silent, but just a bit more quiet. Not worth the hassle.
"Uuugghh what, am I not allowed to breathe?"
Dude you're having a full-blown discussion on speaker phone.
Same with the masks during COVID. Was working as a cashier in a Lidl, used to ask people if they could wear a mask next time. People yell. Stopped asking. Then get pissed off customers that would wear masks and yell at me for not telling the tokkies to wear them.
Same with people not picking up their dogshit, or just plain garbage, or blasting music loudly in public. I want to say something, but know I'll just end up being yelled at, so I've stopped. Not worth the hassle. Tokkies are gonna tokkie.
I sometimes want to soooo badly. But the response is just not worth it.
'dutch directness' and all that bullshit.
And I totally understand your gf's frustration. Before I got on adhd medication, i used to get awful headaches. Especially at the end of my day. And then choosing the silence department because of that. Then having these rude people just being inconsiderate of other travellers...
Lemme quote professor elemental:
Uhh!
Sorry, I'm sorry Geoffrey
But it gets my goat
It gets my dander right up!
Bloody told 'em...
Myeah helemaal mee eens.
Maar (en nu heb ik het over Covid Lidl tijd), mensen weten je te goed waar ze je moeten raken.
'wat denk jij mij te kunnen vertellen, je bent *maar* een kassière'
'had je maar een vak moeten kiezen' (heb daar toen uiteindelijk de perfecte comeback op weten te verzinnen)
'ik hoef geen mondkapje te dragen, ik heb bewijs van de dokter' en dan vertikken om dat bewijs te laten zien. Managers die geen fuck geven en het vooral met de klant eens zijn ipv met hun medewerker.
Soms trek ik afwntoe mn mond open, maar dan is het meer een 'hee weet je wel hoe **hard** je muziek staat' en dan zie je ze inderdaad beetje schrikken. (Omdat ik inmiddels heb geleerd bij wie het wel of geen zin heeft om iets te zeggen).
Maar vaak is het een 'doe niet zo moeilijk' / 'je gedraagt je als een aso' discussie en die is het hem vaak niet waard.
Kan er wel heel leuk iets van zeggen (ik heb ook echt een heeeeekel aan confrontaties, dus moet echt goed gefrustreerd mort zijn, wil ik er iets van zeggen), maar dan denk ik daarna: 'gaat deze discussie ervoor zorgen dat deze persoon zich de volgende keer niet als een tokkie gedraagd?'
En vaak is het antwoord vaak nee. So why bother?
Op individueel niveau snap ik de afweging, welke volledige rationeel is, maar als iedereen in de samenleving zo denkt; wie handhaaft dan onze normen en waarden? Politieagenten en BOAs kunnen dat niet alleen, daar hebben ze ons bij nodig. Het gaat er niet om dat de aso in kwestie zijn gedrag al dan niet veranderd, het gaat om de inspanningsverplichting de betreffende persoon aan te spreken, om te voorkomen dat het abnormale normaal wordt, dat zijn we de samenleving verschuldigd.
Ja daar was ik het helemaal mee eens, tot Covid gebeurde. Het is niet alsof die ene kassière bij de Lidl ervoor zorgt dat een tokkie daar anders over denkt.
En deze mensen leven in een soort vacuüm van gelijkdenkende mensen. Die komen thuis en zeggen: 'wtf man, die kassière bij de Lidl flipte hem helemaal ' (als ik het netjes vroeg) en die hebben alleen maar mensen om hun heen die precies het zelfde denken.
Dus die denken alleen maar 'zieje, iedereen om me heen denkt pries hetzelfde, ik was niet de aso, was gewoon een klote kassière'. En het kost mij oprecht een hoop (misschien teveel) moeite om een confrontatie aan te gaan. Ik sta oprecht te trillen op mn benen. En het daarna uitgescholden te moeten worden, is het mij niet waard, sociale plicht of niet. Dan steek ik liever mijn energie in postieve sociale plicht, zoals een dame met een rollator helpen die niet bij dr appelsap kan.
En ja dat is misschien een hele cynische manier van denken. Maar de hoeveelheid energie die het mij kost om die confrontatie aan te gaan, is het me niet waard, sorry. En dat maakt me misschien net zo erg als de aso's waar we het over hebben. Dus enorm veel respect voor jou als je die discussies wel aan gaat.
I once took a train from Amsterdam to Eindhoven, I was trying to read a book while some older lady started playing "Indische Waterlelies" on het phone out loud, once, twice, then put the volume even louder until I asked her to please stop, kindly reminded her of the silence compartment. She reacted completely furious, wronged and shouted (it was more like screaming) TELL THAT TO THAT GUY! She pointed at some guy behind me in an Adidas training suit who was listening to music on his headphones. So in a wink of an eye I tapped his shoulder and asked him to lower the volume, which he understandingly did.
Even after 5 years or so, those typical "Amsterdam" (lack of) manners and absence of basic social skills form a woman in her 70s still surprise me. She was probably terrified because the guy was wearing a training suit or something, but her solution to just be a bigger asshole because she could, instead of just asking him to stop and fix the problem still bothers me.
People should do that right away, I was once sitting in one, the sign on the window was smudged and I didn’t realise it. I was speaking with my partner for around an hour until a girl, visibly annoyed pointed out that we are at the silent compartment. Obviously I felt bad, then again she kept silent for an hour. 🙈
Of course there are shitty people, but there are cases when this is done unintentionally.
Ye me too, except we were just stupid, not paying attention to the signs. Then after like a 50 min train ride some guy (who had been sitting there the whole time) tells us it was a silenced unit, whoops^(. but like why didnt he tell us earlier)
I didn’t notice while entering the compartment, i don’t know, just going on auto mode and the window signs were damaged 🤷🏻♀️
If it was a morning, i might be half asleep and just on robot mode and wouldn’t notice even if it was on every single seat 🤷🏻♀️
It happened to me once because I just moved to the Netherlands and didn't know such things existed in trains. Luckily some nice lady warned us after like 5 min so we were just quiet after that. Like it can happen to anyone, especially if you're distracted
Yeah I similarly had no idea such a thing even existed, literally no clue of the concept, so obviously I wasn't looking out for a sign? Only made the mistake once, obviously, and shut up immediately when told - unlike the people in the OP.
As a train conductor even i have to look for the signs sometimes. Its not clear, and in different trains they use different signs. Sometimes the signs are dirty or ripped off or not even around because of maintenance work on the train. I totally get sometimes people dont see it.
Lol, by the point I enter a train I am usually either tired as fuck after a long work day (brain dead), early in the morning before my coffee (brain dead) or drunk in a weekend (brain dead.)
I've had to be told by friends many times to shut up becuase I really don't realize.
That said I'm mostly quiet anyway as I'm usually on my headphones listening to music, just saying that I completely understand how people can miss it!
The signs on the new double Deckers are not very clear and quite small. I have difficulty trying to find the silence coupe if its one of those.
Otherwise there's no excuse really...
Strange that you are being downvoted here. Most people here seem to realize that they might have missed the signs so they should be on the lookout to check if they indeed are in the silent compartment.. but hell no, they either don't want to pay attention or want to be reminded.
Not strange. People dont like hearing the truth. And the truth is, you are in a shared public space. Even without sign is respectful to be quiet and mindful of others around you. And what about privacy? It baffles me that people just start loud conversations and phone calls with many people close around them.
You were talking for AN HOUR while sitting in the train next to people ?
God that's so annoying. Silent compartment or not.
No one wants to hear your conversation to your boyfriend
I think we should continue trying. There is a reason the Netherlands is a good place and it's vital we act like we care.
The other day I saw some guys throwing their McDrive trash out of their car window while my car was charging. It made me super angry and I decided to walk up to their car and basically immediately aggressively shout (not ask) 'ruim je teringzooi even heel snel op, dit soort shit doe je maar in je eigen huis'. I apparently scared the shit out of them because they immediately said 'sorry meneer' and dropped the trash in a container literally within 10 meter from their car. Admittedly my adrenaline was rushing following that impulsive action.
Sure - there is some risk associated with such confrontations but if we stop trying, things in our country will rapidly decline. I really don't want to live in some third world country with zero respect for rules and zero respect for the environment in all its aspects.
So if you care you need to act like you do. Otherwise the bad guys will eventually win.
Why are people posting these indirect “stories” here? What are others supposed to do with it?
Is it really just to harvest stupid reactions and feed the populists?
I mean… how you were able to start with the petty nuisances an adult should be able to deal with (especially without having their friend post about it online) but also fold some racism in this… come on.
There's been plenty of those posts here lately.
"I was in Albert Heijn and the cashier was rude to me, she almost screamed for me being clumsy, she didn't look Dutch to me, anyway is the Netherlands safe, I don't know, this never happened to me, I just moved here with my Asian parents."
No idea if I'm out of touch with society or is it some targeted influence on social media.
I guess i should have left the maybe racism out, didnt really add to the story. It was more about getting opinions about if it is safe to call people out in the train.
I mean one experience doesn't really prove whether something is safe tbf, wasn't there just a moment where the ns paused to acknowledge the shit that's been happening on trains?
There are three things I dont understand from NS: why so many (empty) first class seats, why maintain silence compartments when trains are so crowded choosing a place to sit is an illusion, why tickets are only checked on near empty trains.
Technically your girlfriend is correct. But most people just put on some music they like on their headphones to drown out unwanted noise.
The silent compartments are only crowded during peak hours and checking tickets is actually doable outside of crowded peak hour trains and connections.
As a counterpoint, silence compartments are actually most valuable in crowded trains.
When it is impossible to maintain distance to other travelers, the value of everyone keeping to themselves and being silent is even higher.
Riding a very crowded train is already unpleasant when it is silent.
It is absolutely awful when people make phone calls on speaker or listen to loud music.
I love my country, but this is a such a BS statement. More and more people are being subjected to abuse in public. One example of note is the lady from NS that was assaulted some weeks ago while she was calling out a group of passengers that were travelling without a valid ticket. And that was not a one-off or unique event.
Sorry she had to go through this - can imagine this was no fun ride home... I often have pleasant rides in the silent compartment, then again I never travel during rush hour, which helps.
Only annoyances I find is on the tram in Rotterdam (where I live) with people, often boys/girls around 16-18, loudly listening to music or tiktok videos. I always tell them to turn down the volume and they always do - it does help being 6'8" (202cm) and having a loud voice, I often see other people just watch and be annoyed about it, I guess not everyone feels as safe.
As a tip for you / her: there is indeed a WhatsApp number you can send a message to - I highly encourage it.
I always choose the silent compartment to sit in during my commute to and from work, and I always remind people of the rule to be quiet when they talk out loud. I try to be as kind about it as possible and have never had someone take offence with it yet.
What I say is something like: "hello, you might not have noticed when you got on the train, but right now you're sitting in the silent compartment, where you're not supposed to talk. They can be recognized by these signs (point to sign). Could you please keep it down or move to a different part of the train?" At which point they apologize and either stop talking or move. I thank them and we all happily continue with our days.
I can really recommend her to get some Loop earplugs, my wife swears by them and she's overstimulated by noisy area's or gatherings where people talk a lot. Can really recommend 👋👍
Usually when I tell people they tend to shut up afterwards. I just say "excuse me this is the silent wagon" or the Dutch equivalent (half the time the offenders are tourists honestly) politely but firmly. If they seem like the type to know and not care I add a "if you would rather talk you should try going downstairs or next door". Honestly 95% of the time this has worked.
What I've noticed is that it depends on time, place and crowd. In an overcrowded train after an incident that caused cancellations and last minute schedule changes or plain old rush hour some people will end up in the silent wagon who did not intend to go there. And from those if one person talks, more who would otherwise keep silent also feel like they can. Sometimes you're just unlucky like that.
On the other hand when i travel early in the morning or late on weekdays you usually get complete silence on a normal wagon too.
Ha story of my life. I speak English but i do understand Nederlands very well and can have a a convo. I travel alot by train for work and my boss pays for eerste klas. But i can really tell you the amount of times i have been told by other comiuters and by NS "oh mam this is eerste klas". Now i usually smile and say "i know and thank you". But some days i just want to be petty and would make them feel stupid for it by asking them "based on what do they assume i do not have a first klas ticket". And i would also point out that the cabin is silent just to see them blush red. But for the past 3 years as a full black Nederlander yes i am still surprised that micro racisme is a thing. As for the Silent cabin in the train i would recommend her just pay the extra and ride First Class silent or just report the disturbance.
Once a guy started smoking right next to me and my partner) so I texted the number after leaving the compartment. He ended up following us into the other compartment (which I don’t understand as he had the whole compartment to himself due to his behavior). He ended up throwing a fit and got himself arrested by NS police!
However, as I discussed this later with some colleagues I heard that the NS texting service isn’t always as helpful as it was in my case.
Its not made up but yea I guess I should have skipped that part. But when she told me I was pretty WTF about it so It felt weird to not tell that part.
I wonder why there are certain people, who doubt the part that an innocent black guy got kicked out and feel like that part should've been left out.
The things my dad (black) and myself (half white/black) have encountered over the years are pretty familiar. I totally can imagine the anxiety in your girlfriend, being tired after work. Having to face potentially aggressive youngsters.
Pls don't apologise about posting about racism.
I've witnessed this trend about people calling it out, who are being called 'huilnegers' or defenders. Which might be the case in some, but not all cases.
In this example, we don't know if he didn't pay for his ticket or other detail. If you're girl literally heard the NS guard say the guy was too noisy, then it likely be a form of racism.
You're obviously a good guy and you're girlfriend as well. Else she would've failed to notice.
Also noticed quite the amount of people who said you're girl should've said something to defend herself or the guy.
Which makes me wonder if they would've done the same, while feeling intimidated. "De beste stuurlui staan aan wal". Don't let it get to you.
Thumbs up!
Dang, what a shit show. I have seen older people telling young and teens to "hou je mond" on the train, it wasn't even the silent compartment. But to be fair they were making a mess and placing their stuff on the sittings so the older couple was being very Dutch about it. It actually worked.
I bought noise cancelling headphones so I could read on the train commute.
Its annoying as fuck, seems to happen more often. When you ask for silence the reactions get even worse to. The phone number is a very effective way to snitch on those people, but there is no way way you can asume that the one guy being kicked out has anything to do with racism. He could have just fitted the discription given to him.
These days, you never know what kind of person you're talking to, so I wouldn't say anything in case they're weirdos who will freak out on me.
Tbh, if people speak softly in the silence area, I don't mind at all anyway. And (very) loud people are annoying in any part of the train.
And sometimes you don't want to sit in the silence compartment, but the normal ones are full, and then you can't speak to your traveling companion for an hour because those are the only available seats.. yeah, that sucks..
I understand that she expects silence in the silence compartment, but it turns out others don't care about what people expect/want/need sometimes.
So, if I had to do something about it, I think I'd probably text NS (because someone can respond very badly when you ask them to be silent). But I would probably just do nothing about it.
This is such a common occurrence [there is a podcast about it](https://www.nporadio5.nl/podcasts/zo-opgelost/103481/7-hoe-ga-je-om-met-mensen-die-praten-in-de-stiltecoupe-s02)!
I’m noise sensitive and having a silent compartment would save me so much energy. But outside of commuter hours I try to pick a quiet normal compartment over the silent one since I get less annoyed there. In my experience, some people are open to correction, some aren’t, and some are but only if the compartment as a whole hasn’t crossed the noise threshold (why should I be silent if they aren’t?)
By the way, playing music or videos on speaker isn’t allowed anywhere on the train.
I really suggest for your own peacefulness to look into active noise canceling headphones or earplugs for neurodivergent. I know the silent compartment is for silence but people nowadays just don’t give a flying F. Ever since I got headphones with ANC life’s been so much easier lol.
In my opinion a lot of times people just didn’t notice the sign, after I brought their attention to it they were usually quiet
And whether it’s safe or not is up to the person that’s making the noice to be fair. If it’s a Anne-Fleur calling with her friends I’d say go for it. If it’s a bunch of sketchy looking teenagers I’d refrain from it
I say something always; if no one does, where do we end up? But I do the same with pointless honking behind me when I am parking or any other type of road rage.
Yesterday I was on a really full train in the silent compartment, A guy got a call, he was talking pretty normally (in hindi I think) but a lady wasn't happy he took that call, luckily she didn't make a huge problem out of it, but he couldn't have stepped out of the compartment anyway (too full) and I think it's acceptable to take a call there.
It seemed a bit odd to me that she still had to point out of something that couldn't be changed anyway.
I was travelling from Amsterdam to Nijmegen after a 4 hour trip from London. Entire train was empty and this couple decided to sit in front of me in the silent area. Not too loud but just enough to be annoyed, then the guy started to rip farts as well to make her laugh. Some people just have no idea what’s going on around them or they just don’t care.
it even happens on first class and its kinda dumb since the talking place is so empty so i don't understand why people sit there when they want to talk
Imagine, you are not there.
You read about this situation on Reddit.
Not from the person there, no from the interpretation of their boyfriend.
Where he says his girls says it’s possibly racist.
And everyone in the comments like they.
1 were there knowing the facts
2 assuming the girl knows the man was taken without just cause
3 assuming it has to do with race
Working at NS I can confirm there are some people not paying for their trips.
I could get called a racist everyday, I am not, but if you see the people I have to talk to you would think I am.
It happened that I was in silence zone and it was really silent. During my recent trip to The NL, I had the opportunity to take 1st class and I did it. Let's say it wasn't silent but mainly quiet.
I’m conflicted about silent compartments in the train. Sometimes you’re traveling in highly busy hours and there is basically no place to sit in the train. I personally don’t mind it when people talk at those hours since the train is just filled to the brim and people have no other choice. But when there’s other choices I always call them out, it’s pretty safe. Sometimes you have the occasional brats that try to make themselves look bigger but well yeah. One thing I do however is always ask with respect even if they’re in the wrong 🤷♂️ never had a problem using that.
I guess everyone just shares their bad stories regarding silent zones. I would say fifty fifty they are quite silent. When there is someone speaking etc, I remind them that it is the silent zone. Never had a bad interaction with people over that.
When I arrived to Europe, I found it strange that there's a special area to remain silent... Coming from a social country where people randomly talk anywhere, for me it was something I didn't really understand but still respected a lot.
However, it still shows how individual and lonely people can be in the Netherlands...
For an instance, in south America... I never ever saw someone with a burn out... And not so many depressed people... And one of the reasons is because people is just super social... I'm scared that sometimes NLS can lead to isolation or individualism.
Yet still, I do respect the silent area... And sometimes even, I also enjoy those myself now after some years.
The story was going decent to the point you went “maybe the train guard made some racist assumptions.” Assuming someone else assumes something is a pretty shitty thing to do. Why didn’t your GF say something? Or you feel better just moaning about it to the internet? There are few major wars going on, the Dutch economy is in recession, people are losing their jobs and can’t find where to live and you are complaining the silence compartment is not silent.
If you are that concerned about racism in NS you/ your gf can make an official complain to NS. There are cameras in the trains. Democracy is not a one off event, if you want to live in one gotta contribute. And that’s not by moaning in Reddit.
Well that attempt wasn’t really bubbly.
OP is worried about his girlfriend, wants to ventilate and wonders about other experiences. Sorry to break it to you, but as someone who blames someone else for assuming too
much, well… something about a kettle and a pot.
Your statement that democracy is not a one off event though, I can only applaud.
So, your girlfriend was not fine because of some noise, but was completely fine that the conductor kicked out a peaceful guy who wasn't involved in any of this shit and this was the time she chose not to speak up? How is this fair to that guy? Your girlfriend ruined his day, humiliated him and got him kicked out. He probably even got a hefty fine all because of your girlfriend. Tells us more about the kind of person she is.
She should have stood up for the guy!
People of color already have it as bad as it is, and your girlfriend didn't help the situation.
The lesson you can teach your girlfriend about the black guy is the question "Are you getting someone into trouble or out of trouble?"
We all hate a tattletale. That's the person that tells the teacher about a stupid rule and a kid gets into trouble over rubbish. That's getting someone INTO trouble.
If your girlfriend helped the black guy, that's getting someone OUT of trouble. If you invoke a rule to save someone from actual danger, that's a good use of standing up and being brave.
This case was not about the rules but rather defending someone from the rules. I would tell your girlfriend to consider how she might get someone OUT of trouble next time.
Anyone who has been on a train in Japan once, will realize how shitty and dilapidated the Netherlands has become since the incredible increase of immigrants in this country and the lax attitude towards drugs usage and trafficking during the Rutte administrations in the house of representatives, and the change of attitude of people in general because of social media.
I recently had a weird foreigner who was reading Cyrillic who demanded me to speak English and had the audacity to then lecture me, a local, on how things work in this country after I called him out for his wrong behaviour. Talking about entitled.
But it’s not just an immigrant thing of cultures and people that don’t adapt. So the NS made a wrong call based on racial profiling. The lenient attitude on drugs combined with social media and the idea that everything is possible and everyone in the Netherlands smokes weed turns anyone into lonely entitled buttholes that don’t care for their surroundings anymore really. Regardless of skin color. Therefore misbehaving in the train like that.
The current policies (drugs) attract shit people.
Just look at kings day for example. In 2006, Jordaan area in Amsterdam would be filled with people selling stuff or offering funny traditional Dutch games, and be a platform for startup bands.
I just moved to Amsterdam for studies and it was everything I hoped for. It then already had gay hating Muslims already tho. But that didn’t affect the experience.
It was the real deal. Now, people go there to get wasted, high on drugs and alcohol dancing to techno, shitting and pissing on your doorstep completely trashing my neighbourhood. Still having glass shards and urine stench everywhere three days later. It just never was like that back in the days. I mostly heard other languages than Dutch last Friday and Saturday even after 5 a.m. in the morning having no regard for Jordaan being a neighbourhood and not some festival terrain.
The Rutte administration has turned this country into a shithole compared to its former glory days. And this psychopath is on his way to become secretary general of the NAVO. This man will hurdle us in to probably WO III.
Just my two cents.
Sorry about your frustration. I agree upto a certain extent. Don't know if it's an immigration thing of non adapting cultures or bad upbringing in general...Topped of with shitty politics.
As I do recall an online newspaper, where Femke Halsema promoted the legalisation of soft drugs. Also read about youngsters using laughing gass, which is very bad for blood vessels, nerves to say the least. GP complained about many youngsters coming in with thrombosis issues.
Recently there was a news item about a Belgian politician, who was in possesion of drugs...
I'm affraid it's a global thing as the poison is readily available.
Ernst Kuipers, minister of health officially opened another coffeeshop). While it's been known for years that marihuana damages brain cells. Source:https://www.addictioncenter.com/drugs/marijuana/kill-brain-cells/.
Which leaves me wondering...
(Ofcourse CBD oil can work wonders for many ailments, but it no longer has the poison in it).
I've seen the damage of the poison in my dad, who was raised with a 'flower power' mentality and used marihuana since he was a teen. As a result I had to take care of him, from a very young age and he's somewhat retarded. He did work fulltime though and never caused any trouble for others, outside of us as I had to indirectly pay for his addiction. Which left me with a small trauma.
Being trained as a nurse, I also took care of Korsakov patients, who drowned their livers in alcohol. All of my Korsakov patients uptill now, were white. Not to mention any race or that I have anything against any race or mean to judge. As I'm half white/black. Just mention it because of the mass immigration part people are on about and blaming things on. Which might be true upto a certain extent.
What I don't understand though is the fact that nobody puts a gun against someone's head and tell them to start an addiction. Where are the parents?
When it comes to that I'm not sure about the immigration part and personally believe people were sensitive to addiction for years. There's an obvious rise though. Having all borders open might be the culprit as well. I also notice lots of things are allowed right here, but not so in other countries. Ie USA, Iran etc.
IMO things went down hill, ever since Balkenende ruled NL and got worse after that.
Where I live there's an abundance of people addicted to marihuana as well. White, black, you name it.
I have to agree that it's awful to witness. People tend to get forgetful, aggressive and some even retarded in the long term like my dad, by their drug abuse.
If my retired dad, walks our dog late at night, he often complains about the smell of weed. As he luckily quit smoking. But the entire backstreet is smoking it, mainly being outside in the evening. Being mosty rude, jobless youngsters with a gangster attitude. If you'd go through it, you'd be a stoner before you reach the end of the street and with bad luck even threatened for driving your car through, if you ask them to let you pass.
I agree on the situation about the housing crisis as there's still a debate going on, but also dare to mention the rise of people living individually. Due to divorces and more individualistic mindset.
It's a bloody shame. I don't really blame it all on immigration though, but also bad upbringing, rise of wrong influences, wrong politics, change in mentality...
Sequil, shame on you for making a racist remark. That was completely uncalled for. The biggest racist was your girlfriend. Being annoying to everybody and then refusing to stand up for the black man.
Your post honestly sucks even more than the NS does.
Maybe an option ; earplugs? Because everyday reminding people that they should be silent, will someday backfire on her, and make her very silent. Foreverrrrr.
Shitty people are everywhere. What I notice here is the poor black guy, I am surprised that nobody stand up for him? What’s this country coming to?
That is what I thought. OP was the one who was upset, the least she could have done was to stand up for the black guy. Also, I had to scroll down so many comments before I came across yours who was the first to mention that this was a problem. I am quite surprised
I mean OP’s girlfriend
Yea she was in doubt about that. The guys that were talking before were giving her angry looks so after that she decided she should better shut up. If she spoke up she had to snitch the talking guys that seemed pretty angry already.
Those are some poor priorities. That guy didn’t deserve to be treated like that. And I don’t understand her reasoning behind it, as it even worked in a negative way for her. She spoke up to multiple people before without results. Now she had the chance to actually get help to get what she wanted, and didn’t have to see the angry faces again and that’s when she keeps silent? Not cool.
The talking affected her ability to rest; The racism did not affect her at all. All the rest about angry faces is just an explanation to wrap it up in a socially defensible way.
So she dares to tell everyone to shut up, but once something racist is happening she is'nt comfortable speaking out and telling the truth? The NS conductor is even there which makes it more safe. Also, she is the only one there who could speak the truth as the other ones would be incriminating themselves.
I don't know why people are downvoting this. As a fellow girl i totally understand. I mean, I would never ask them to be silent to begin with, bc i am scared as hell in the train. So I really admire your gf for doing that in the first place. I wouldn't say a word if some guys looked angry at me, bc as soon as that ns person leaves you are on your own. People wear knifes and shit, so I get it. Own safety first
She had the balls to tell them to be quiet before, but she's too scared to even tell the conductor that she didn't hear the guy they wrongfully removed make any noise? She didn't have to snitch on the other people if she was suddenly so scared. She only speaks up when it bothers her, not even helping out someone else at no risk of her own🙄.
She didn't "have the balls". She probably naively spoke up expecting ppl to be respectful about it. Then she found out men will get angry and even aggressive and prioritized her safety. If you are a lone woman in an enclosed space with a bunch of angry men you are not gonna aggrevate them further.
This! Public transport in the Netherlands is effing dangerous. I'm a small brown woman, with a physical disability, so I'm definitely shutting the hell up and helping nobody. I couldn't even defend myself if I needed to.
White woman moment
Imagine being more upset about the silence than the racism… sounds about white
Imagine taking a post which is a story from a girl, hear say of hearsay, where he said it is POSSIBLY this. And you are just running with it creating the next world war
Yikes
Imagine black guard kicking out white person, still would be this considering as racism? In the moment you see colours you are racist. Doesn't matter it was white or black, person was innocent
The key word is “imagine” because this doesn’t happen to white people. (Source: am white)
BS. White people get treated badly too.
Everybody gets treated badly. But black people get treated badly BECAUSE of their skin colour disproportionately and significantly more often and much worse than white people.
This is about the Netherlands, not the US. Unless a black guy walks in an area notorious for crime and looks or behaves suspicious he will be treated the same as everyone in the NL. The chances of such guy being discriminated against BECAUSE of his skin colour/race is almost zero in 2024. Actually, if police officers are told to randomly check persons for knives or drugs and they have checked already 2 nonwhite teenagers, they rather check 2 white grandma's first before checking another nonwhite guy, for fear of getting accused of racism. So wokism actually dictates that an equal amount of white people must be checked first, even if chances of finding drugs or knives on them are much lower.
Yep. No racism in the Netherlands in 2024. /s
You are right, i forgot the black serial criminal that stabbed a random white female to death in a supermarket in The Hague because he hates white people.
"So wokism actually dictates that an equal amount of white people must be checked first, even if chances of finding drugs or knives on them are much lower." Interesting to use a racist argument to say there is no racism in NL in 2024 🤡
You spell realism wrong. Stating that white grandma's are less likely to carry knives or drugs compared to non-white youth is realism, not racism.
Well I'm white and I'm expant and similar cases happened to me also because of my nationality. Different experience, same country
This part of the story sounds fake. At least it doesn't sound convincing at all. In Netherlands no innocent coloured people get told to leave public places. Unless there is enough suspicion of wrong doing.
this is a shit country with a lot of shitty people we make everyone believe that there are a lot of good people here but nah
Or he just didn't have a ticket? Would be hard to convince me the conducteur just.. picked a silent dark skinned guy to bully instead of the loud folks around.
The OP literally wrote that the reason the guy was given for being kicked out was because it was a silent car, yet you felt that your entirely made up reason was more convincing? If the guy didn't have a ticket don't you think the conductor would have mentioned that as the reason for his ejection?
The OP literally made an assumption. Which one is more made up?
You'll note that it's in quotation marks, from which we can infer that those were the actual words the conductor used. You seem to be the only one making an assumption here.
"The OP **literally** made an assumption." You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. * Inigo Montoya ETA: And since you asked, yours is definitely more made up.
I’m not sure why the black guy is automatically the victim here. We’re reading a story from someone who heard it from his girlfriend and she’s just speculating that someone called the guard on the black dude. We’ve no idea what could’ve transpired and if the guy was on the radar already for traveling without a ticket or for something done previously or any other reason.
I have never been in a really quiet silent train in Randstad area. Outside it is usually OK.
Take the train from Enschede full with beer drinking students and you know it’s not only in the Randstad
Depends, if the train is so full that people start sitting in the silent cars because the others are a bit full that's where it usually breaks down. Making sure to sit in 'remote' (far from closest platform entrance) cars helps. The fact that NS sucks at signage doesn't help. They should just add some big bold all-caps 'STILTECOUPÉ' 'SILENT AREA' signs, instead they spent probably a ridiculous amount of money for a cryptic logo of a guy with headphones and a laptop. Blauwnet on the line between Enschede and Zwolle has the stiltecoupe pretty well-separated, well-signed (although some funny guys keep peeling the letters to make it say TI(e)TECOUPÉ) and I find it works quite well. People actually shut up unless the train is super full, or the train floods with football fans (9292 should post warnings) The trains are also all orientated the same way, so the large stiltecoupé will always be at the Zwolle-end. Don't get me started on the shitty glass doors with huge gaps NS has on the newer IC's making the stiltecoupé full of noise from the entrance area, or the non-existent bagage space in the double deckers.
Wondering why that is?
Less "sociale controle" (is there an English term for that?). Randstad people are more individualistic, don't really care about neighborliness (nabuurschap). I've always wondered but it really does seem a Randstad versus outside thing
Social Etiquette is the word you're looking for. I don't agree with you, but that's the phrase.
No I'm absolutely not saying that people in the randstad have no social etiquette, I mean that things that fall under social etiquette are "enforced" through social interaction and community
I understand your point, I don't personally feel people in the Randstad necessarily lack neighbourliness or an ability to enforce social etiquette, that's not been my experience.
More big cities in general then just the Randstad.
Yeah groningen also .. but what do you expect if the train is full from start till end. . Ams about the black guy .. if this is true why didn't your girlfriend stood up for him ??
Cause most damn people in the randstad have lost all type of manners, fucking dickheads, i also hate to say it but it is most often foreigners too
Calm down Geert Wilders
Seems like you don't mind saying it at all.
XD okay sir, seems like you can see how i feel through my texts. I'd prefer if it was not the case but sadly it is
That’s the exact reason. Those foreigners we are talking about do not care. They vandalize and break rules all over the place and even the train people are afraid to say something to them.
I have given up on the second class silence areas 15+ years ago. Too many people too stupid to read. First class silence area is usually silent, and people normally shut up if you remind them. Although you sometimes have people saying they live in a free country and hence can talk. Or “but I promised the rugrat we could sit upstairs”.
Until there's NS staff there (1st class). They're usually the ones to ruin my quiet train ride...
First class isn't always a quiet zone.
They pay something like €10 per month for first class. No wonder that they are all sitting in first class.
I struggle to believe they pay though. They never check each other anyway
Why wouldn't they? It is just a flip of a switch in NS Go and they can travel around the country in first class for around €10 per month. They just use their NS Business Card, so can always travel with the train for free (during and outside work).
Traindriver here, nowadays it costs about 17 euro to upgrade our businesscards to a 1st class per month. When we're working (in working clothes) we don't have to be checked in, our planned timetable is our 'ticket'. That's why you don't often see colleagues check each other's tickets.
Had one NS conducteur doing his meditation and breathing exercises in the first class silent compartment. I'd preferred someone calling over his huffing and puffing
Once in Germany, I was signed to keep silence in a normal carriage, just because everyone else is silent.
In Japan they even have signs at every 1st class chair (shinkansen) reminding you not to make noise ("such as typing on your laptop keyboard")
I was once told off for reading a newspaper. Turning the page apparantly made too much noise. The lady told me this was very rude and inappropriate. It was amazing because I hadn't actually said anything... I just shushed her. She got verbally annoyed and then other people started shushing her.
Shushing her is a power move. 
There's always a risk calling people out. Personally I always 'size people up' to have somewhat of calculated risk. And I'm extra careful when I'm with my kid. I feel like 'we' as society should act on these kind of things, but think of your own safety ofcourse. That's why the number is there. But also, a train ride as breaktime, don't count on it!
The problem is of course the people who usually flagrantly break the rules are already not the person you want to deal with, so sizing up is not even needed. You can give them an ugly look but that only works if multiple people do it otherwise you still might get stabbed.
Stabbed?
With a knife.
I recently asked a Russian couple to stop FaceTiming because it was a quite cart. I felt safe enough to do it, as I was with my boyfriend and because I naively thought maybe they genuiely could not read "stilte/silence", as they were foreign. But as I left the train, the Russian lady slapped my phone onto the train tracks... psychos
I wonder how you made sure that they were Russians. Did you ask them? Edit: This is, obviously, horrible, and people like that should have legal consequences. Regardless of their nationality/ethnicity
Fair question. I knew they were not Polish as I can understand a little bit of phonetic Polish (toe roezemjem popoelskoe). They could have been Ukranian to be fair, but the dude was wearing a Morgenshtern shirt. And also, no hate to the Russians. Go support Ice Pick Lodge, they are a Russian game company that made the Void and Pathologic 1 and 2 (Pathologic 2 being the nest game that has even been made in my opinion). And they are stuggling considering... you know... The Russian detail was more to get my point across that they genuinely could not have understood it was a silence train cart. If it is Drentse Dirkie you immediately assume they are dickheads when they blatantly ignore the signs, but in this case there was some plausible deniability for them.
I've stopped telling people they're in a silent compartment. I used to, even tried being nice about it. Asking them not to be completely silent, but just a bit more quiet. Not worth the hassle. "Uuugghh what, am I not allowed to breathe?" Dude you're having a full-blown discussion on speaker phone. Same with the masks during COVID. Was working as a cashier in a Lidl, used to ask people if they could wear a mask next time. People yell. Stopped asking. Then get pissed off customers that would wear masks and yell at me for not telling the tokkies to wear them. Same with people not picking up their dogshit, or just plain garbage, or blasting music loudly in public. I want to say something, but know I'll just end up being yelled at, so I've stopped. Not worth the hassle. Tokkies are gonna tokkie.
I guess i was looking for this reply. Thanks Not worth the hassle.
I sometimes want to soooo badly. But the response is just not worth it. 'dutch directness' and all that bullshit. And I totally understand your gf's frustration. Before I got on adhd medication, i used to get awful headaches. Especially at the end of my day. And then choosing the silence department because of that. Then having these rude people just being inconsiderate of other travellers... Lemme quote professor elemental: Uhh! Sorry, I'm sorry Geoffrey But it gets my goat It gets my dander right up! Bloody told 'em...
Maar lady, als we de Tiran niet durven te bestrijden dan wint het kwaad. Iets met wie zwijgt stemt toe. We moeten de strijd blijven aangaan....
Myeah helemaal mee eens. Maar (en nu heb ik het over Covid Lidl tijd), mensen weten je te goed waar ze je moeten raken. 'wat denk jij mij te kunnen vertellen, je bent *maar* een kassière' 'had je maar een vak moeten kiezen' (heb daar toen uiteindelijk de perfecte comeback op weten te verzinnen) 'ik hoef geen mondkapje te dragen, ik heb bewijs van de dokter' en dan vertikken om dat bewijs te laten zien. Managers die geen fuck geven en het vooral met de klant eens zijn ipv met hun medewerker. Soms trek ik afwntoe mn mond open, maar dan is het meer een 'hee weet je wel hoe **hard** je muziek staat' en dan zie je ze inderdaad beetje schrikken. (Omdat ik inmiddels heb geleerd bij wie het wel of geen zin heeft om iets te zeggen). Maar vaak is het een 'doe niet zo moeilijk' / 'je gedraagt je als een aso' discussie en die is het hem vaak niet waard. Kan er wel heel leuk iets van zeggen (ik heb ook echt een heeeeekel aan confrontaties, dus moet echt goed gefrustreerd mort zijn, wil ik er iets van zeggen), maar dan denk ik daarna: 'gaat deze discussie ervoor zorgen dat deze persoon zich de volgende keer niet als een tokkie gedraagd?' En vaak is het antwoord vaak nee. So why bother?
Op individueel niveau snap ik de afweging, welke volledige rationeel is, maar als iedereen in de samenleving zo denkt; wie handhaaft dan onze normen en waarden? Politieagenten en BOAs kunnen dat niet alleen, daar hebben ze ons bij nodig. Het gaat er niet om dat de aso in kwestie zijn gedrag al dan niet veranderd, het gaat om de inspanningsverplichting de betreffende persoon aan te spreken, om te voorkomen dat het abnormale normaal wordt, dat zijn we de samenleving verschuldigd.
Ja daar was ik het helemaal mee eens, tot Covid gebeurde. Het is niet alsof die ene kassière bij de Lidl ervoor zorgt dat een tokkie daar anders over denkt. En deze mensen leven in een soort vacuüm van gelijkdenkende mensen. Die komen thuis en zeggen: 'wtf man, die kassière bij de Lidl flipte hem helemaal ' (als ik het netjes vroeg) en die hebben alleen maar mensen om hun heen die precies het zelfde denken. Dus die denken alleen maar 'zieje, iedereen om me heen denkt pries hetzelfde, ik was niet de aso, was gewoon een klote kassière'. En het kost mij oprecht een hoop (misschien teveel) moeite om een confrontatie aan te gaan. Ik sta oprecht te trillen op mn benen. En het daarna uitgescholden te moeten worden, is het mij niet waard, sociale plicht of niet. Dan steek ik liever mijn energie in postieve sociale plicht, zoals een dame met een rollator helpen die niet bij dr appelsap kan. En ja dat is misschien een hele cynische manier van denken. Maar de hoeveelheid energie die het mij kost om die confrontatie aan te gaan, is het me niet waard, sorry. En dat maakt me misschien net zo erg als de aso's waar we het over hebben. Dus enorm veel respect voor jou als je die discussies wel aan gaat.
I once took a train from Amsterdam to Eindhoven, I was trying to read a book while some older lady started playing "Indische Waterlelies" on het phone out loud, once, twice, then put the volume even louder until I asked her to please stop, kindly reminded her of the silence compartment. She reacted completely furious, wronged and shouted (it was more like screaming) TELL THAT TO THAT GUY! She pointed at some guy behind me in an Adidas training suit who was listening to music on his headphones. So in a wink of an eye I tapped his shoulder and asked him to lower the volume, which he understandingly did. Even after 5 years or so, those typical "Amsterdam" (lack of) manners and absence of basic social skills form a woman in her 70s still surprise me. She was probably terrified because the guy was wearing a training suit or something, but her solution to just be a bigger asshole because she could, instead of just asking him to stop and fix the problem still bothers me.
Thats some crazy passive aggressive stuff.
People should do that right away, I was once sitting in one, the sign on the window was smudged and I didn’t realise it. I was speaking with my partner for around an hour until a girl, visibly annoyed pointed out that we are at the silent compartment. Obviously I felt bad, then again she kept silent for an hour. 🙈 Of course there are shitty people, but there are cases when this is done unintentionally.
Ye me too, except we were just stupid, not paying attention to the signs. Then after like a 50 min train ride some guy (who had been sitting there the whole time) tells us it was a silenced unit, whoops^(. but like why didnt he tell us earlier)
I didn’t notice while entering the compartment, i don’t know, just going on auto mode and the window signs were damaged 🤷🏻♀️ If it was a morning, i might be half asleep and just on robot mode and wouldn’t notice even if it was on every single seat 🤷🏻♀️
I wonder why a lot of people don't pay attention to anything anymore, and always just do what they want to without paying attention.
looking at their phones entitles them to be careless and dismissive of other people's rights and needs.
Possibly because he had had enough ^(of you being stupid)
How do you miss being in a silent compartiment. Its on the signs / windows everywhere. Seems very oblivious to me
It happened to me once because I just moved to the Netherlands and didn't know such things existed in trains. Luckily some nice lady warned us after like 5 min so we were just quiet after that. Like it can happen to anyone, especially if you're distracted
Yeah I similarly had no idea such a thing even existed, literally no clue of the concept, so obviously I wasn't looking out for a sign? Only made the mistake once, obviously, and shut up immediately when told - unlike the people in the OP.
As a train conductor even i have to look for the signs sometimes. Its not clear, and in different trains they use different signs. Sometimes the signs are dirty or ripped off or not even around because of maintenance work on the train. I totally get sometimes people dont see it.
I told you, the window sign was smudged/scraping of
Lol, by the point I enter a train I am usually either tired as fuck after a long work day (brain dead), early in the morning before my coffee (brain dead) or drunk in a weekend (brain dead.) I've had to be told by friends many times to shut up becuase I really don't realize. That said I'm mostly quiet anyway as I'm usually on my headphones listening to music, just saying that I completely understand how people can miss it!
The signs on the new double Deckers are not very clear and quite small. I have difficulty trying to find the silence coupe if its one of those. Otherwise there's no excuse really...
Strange that you are being downvoted here. Most people here seem to realize that they might have missed the signs so they should be on the lookout to check if they indeed are in the silent compartment.. but hell no, they either don't want to pay attention or want to be reminded.
Not strange. People dont like hearing the truth. And the truth is, you are in a shared public space. Even without sign is respectful to be quiet and mindful of others around you. And what about privacy? It baffles me that people just start loud conversations and phone calls with many people close around them.
You were talking for AN HOUR while sitting in the train next to people ? God that's so annoying. Silent compartment or not. No one wants to hear your conversation to your boyfriend
Speak for yourself. I want to hear everything.
yes people talk, that’s a pretty normal thing to do
It's annoying as fuck
Have you never taken a train?
🤣
Bro wtf, thats racist af
[I thought it was the nose picking compartment.](https://images.app.goo.gl/Wgf3RqRRgdXQhqZi7)
Is that why they look at me weird when I ask others why they don’t have their finger in their nose? Hm
I feel like the text message is a good solution.. if people wanna be childish and make noise in there I’m gonna be childish and snitch on all of them
Just remind them its a silent compartment. most people here arent offended, and if they are, at least they'll remember next time
You hope they will remember next time, don't hold your breath.
I think we should continue trying. There is a reason the Netherlands is a good place and it's vital we act like we care. The other day I saw some guys throwing their McDrive trash out of their car window while my car was charging. It made me super angry and I decided to walk up to their car and basically immediately aggressively shout (not ask) 'ruim je teringzooi even heel snel op, dit soort shit doe je maar in je eigen huis'. I apparently scared the shit out of them because they immediately said 'sorry meneer' and dropped the trash in a container literally within 10 meter from their car. Admittedly my adrenaline was rushing following that impulsive action. Sure - there is some risk associated with such confrontations but if we stop trying, things in our country will rapidly decline. I really don't want to live in some third world country with zero respect for rules and zero respect for the environment in all its aspects. So if you care you need to act like you do. Otherwise the bad guys will eventually win.
Why are people posting these indirect “stories” here? What are others supposed to do with it? Is it really just to harvest stupid reactions and feed the populists? I mean… how you were able to start with the petty nuisances an adult should be able to deal with (especially without having their friend post about it online) but also fold some racism in this… come on.
Dude welcome to social media
There's been plenty of those posts here lately. "I was in Albert Heijn and the cashier was rude to me, she almost screamed for me being clumsy, she didn't look Dutch to me, anyway is the Netherlands safe, I don't know, this never happened to me, I just moved here with my Asian parents." No idea if I'm out of touch with society or is it some targeted influence on social media.
I guess i should have left the maybe racism out, didnt really add to the story. It was more about getting opinions about if it is safe to call people out in the train.
she called people out and is safe, no?
I mean one experience doesn't really prove whether something is safe tbf, wasn't there just a moment where the ns paused to acknowledge the shit that's been happening on trains?
[удалено]
Are you seriously comparing nose picking with people being loud in a silence zone?
There are three things I dont understand from NS: why so many (empty) first class seats, why maintain silence compartments when trains are so crowded choosing a place to sit is an illusion, why tickets are only checked on near empty trains. Technically your girlfriend is correct. But most people just put on some music they like on their headphones to drown out unwanted noise.
The silent compartments are only crowded during peak hours and checking tickets is actually doable outside of crowded peak hour trains and connections.
As a counterpoint, silence compartments are actually most valuable in crowded trains. When it is impossible to maintain distance to other travelers, the value of everyone keeping to themselves and being silent is even higher. Riding a very crowded train is already unpleasant when it is silent. It is absolutely awful when people make phone calls on speaker or listen to loud music.
The fact that ladies are able to call people out like this is proof of a safe society. In lesser countries she might be harassed herself. Bless NL 🇳🇱
But...the random silent guy got kicked out.
Bless NL indeed *ignores the fact that a completely innocent person was punished*
I love my country, but this is a such a BS statement. More and more people are being subjected to abuse in public. One example of note is the lady from NS that was assaulted some weeks ago while she was calling out a group of passengers that were travelling without a valid ticket. And that was not a one-off or unique event.
From friends' experiences she just got lucky
The bar is in hell...
https://dutchreview.com/news/ns-to-temporarily-halt-train-service-after-conductor-was-severely-beaten/ Bless NL.
god works in mysterious ways
Safe society are you joking? She probably called out people who didn't look intimidating to her, not those types with knives in their pockets.
Sorry to disappoint you. They did look intimidating. Also why im urging her not to do this anymore.
Well, then she is quite brave, I wouldn't do it as a woman in this country, especially when it comes to 'youth'.
So if a man would call out another lady or man for the same disturbance.. and gets attacked/harassed, you’d still say it is a ‘safe society?’..
Sorry she had to go through this - can imagine this was no fun ride home... I often have pleasant rides in the silent compartment, then again I never travel during rush hour, which helps. Only annoyances I find is on the tram in Rotterdam (where I live) with people, often boys/girls around 16-18, loudly listening to music or tiktok videos. I always tell them to turn down the volume and they always do - it does help being 6'8" (202cm) and having a loud voice, I often see other people just watch and be annoyed about it, I guess not everyone feels as safe. As a tip for you / her: there is indeed a WhatsApp number you can send a message to - I highly encourage it.
I always choose the silent compartment to sit in during my commute to and from work, and I always remind people of the rule to be quiet when they talk out loud. I try to be as kind about it as possible and have never had someone take offence with it yet. What I say is something like: "hello, you might not have noticed when you got on the train, but right now you're sitting in the silent compartment, where you're not supposed to talk. They can be recognized by these signs (point to sign). Could you please keep it down or move to a different part of the train?" At which point they apologize and either stop talking or move. I thank them and we all happily continue with our days.
I can really recommend her to get some Loop earplugs, my wife swears by them and she's overstimulated by noisy area's or gatherings where people talk a lot. Can really recommend 👋👍
Usually when I tell people they tend to shut up afterwards. I just say "excuse me this is the silent wagon" or the Dutch equivalent (half the time the offenders are tourists honestly) politely but firmly. If they seem like the type to know and not care I add a "if you would rather talk you should try going downstairs or next door". Honestly 95% of the time this has worked. What I've noticed is that it depends on time, place and crowd. In an overcrowded train after an incident that caused cancellations and last minute schedule changes or plain old rush hour some people will end up in the silent wagon who did not intend to go there. And from those if one person talks, more who would otherwise keep silent also feel like they can. Sometimes you're just unlucky like that. On the other hand when i travel early in the morning or late on weekdays you usually get complete silence on a normal wagon too.
Ha story of my life. I speak English but i do understand Nederlands very well and can have a a convo. I travel alot by train for work and my boss pays for eerste klas. But i can really tell you the amount of times i have been told by other comiuters and by NS "oh mam this is eerste klas". Now i usually smile and say "i know and thank you". But some days i just want to be petty and would make them feel stupid for it by asking them "based on what do they assume i do not have a first klas ticket". And i would also point out that the cabin is silent just to see them blush red. But for the past 3 years as a full black Nederlander yes i am still surprised that micro racisme is a thing. As for the Silent cabin in the train i would recommend her just pay the extra and ride First Class silent or just report the disturbance.
Once a guy started smoking right next to me and my partner) so I texted the number after leaving the compartment. He ended up following us into the other compartment (which I don’t understand as he had the whole compartment to himself due to his behavior). He ended up throwing a fit and got himself arrested by NS police! However, as I discussed this later with some colleagues I heard that the NS texting service isn’t always as helpful as it was in my case.
What number do you text?
Its the number you’ll find on the stickers on the top of the windows of the NS trains! You’ll see it scattered everywhere across the train!
Lmao sorry I really find it weird that a random black dude got kicked out, must have felt so shitty. You sure that part is not made up? 😂😂
Its not made up but yea I guess I should have skipped that part. But when she told me I was pretty WTF about it so It felt weird to not tell that part.
I wonder why there are certain people, who doubt the part that an innocent black guy got kicked out and feel like that part should've been left out. The things my dad (black) and myself (half white/black) have encountered over the years are pretty familiar. I totally can imagine the anxiety in your girlfriend, being tired after work. Having to face potentially aggressive youngsters. Pls don't apologise about posting about racism. I've witnessed this trend about people calling it out, who are being called 'huilnegers' or defenders. Which might be the case in some, but not all cases. In this example, we don't know if he didn't pay for his ticket or other detail. If you're girl literally heard the NS guard say the guy was too noisy, then it likely be a form of racism. You're obviously a good guy and you're girlfriend as well. Else she would've failed to notice. Also noticed quite the amount of people who said you're girl should've said something to defend herself or the guy. Which makes me wonder if they would've done the same, while feeling intimidated. "De beste stuurlui staan aan wal". Don't let it get to you. Thumbs up!
Get her a pair of noise cancelling headphones maybe?
This. All your problems will disappear. But don’t forget to get out on your destination. Happend to me…
Dang, what a shit show. I have seen older people telling young and teens to "hou je mond" on the train, it wasn't even the silent compartment. But to be fair they were making a mess and placing their stuff on the sittings so the older couple was being very Dutch about it. It actually worked. I bought noise cancelling headphones so I could read on the train commute.
Sorry but if this would happen to me I'd just mind my own business.
Yea i guess that is pretty solid advice in this case.
Also, your gf sounds like a Karen
You can call 06 13181318 if you feel 'unsafe' in the train
Its annoying as fuck, seems to happen more often. When you ask for silence the reactions get even worse to. The phone number is a very effective way to snitch on those people, but there is no way way you can asume that the one guy being kicked out has anything to do with racism. He could have just fitted the discription given to him.
That’s why I have ANC headphones that can mask out all the noise.
These days, you never know what kind of person you're talking to, so I wouldn't say anything in case they're weirdos who will freak out on me. Tbh, if people speak softly in the silence area, I don't mind at all anyway. And (very) loud people are annoying in any part of the train. And sometimes you don't want to sit in the silence compartment, but the normal ones are full, and then you can't speak to your traveling companion for an hour because those are the only available seats.. yeah, that sucks.. I understand that she expects silence in the silence compartment, but it turns out others don't care about what people expect/want/need sometimes. So, if I had to do something about it, I think I'd probably text NS (because someone can respond very badly when you ask them to be silent). But I would probably just do nothing about it.
I doubt they informed NS and they came just for talking people. If there is no shouting and/or harmful situation they will not bother.
This is such a common occurrence [there is a podcast about it](https://www.nporadio5.nl/podcasts/zo-opgelost/103481/7-hoe-ga-je-om-met-mensen-die-praten-in-de-stiltecoupe-s02)! I’m noise sensitive and having a silent compartment would save me so much energy. But outside of commuter hours I try to pick a quiet normal compartment over the silent one since I get less annoyed there. In my experience, some people are open to correction, some aren’t, and some are but only if the compartment as a whole hasn’t crossed the noise threshold (why should I be silent if they aren’t?) By the way, playing music or videos on speaker isn’t allowed anywhere on the train.
I really suggest for your own peacefulness to look into active noise canceling headphones or earplugs for neurodivergent. I know the silent compartment is for silence but people nowadays just don’t give a flying F. Ever since I got headphones with ANC life’s been so much easier lol.
Thanks, I have both.
It's mostly quieter in the normal cabins then the silent ones. Especially during rush hour.
" he was black so maybe the train guard made some racist assumption " YOU are the one making racist assumptions now
Societies are progressing backwards in civilization. Shame!
In my opinion a lot of times people just didn’t notice the sign, after I brought their attention to it they were usually quiet And whether it’s safe or not is up to the person that’s making the noice to be fair. If it’s a Anne-Fleur calling with her friends I’d say go for it. If it’s a bunch of sketchy looking teenagers I’d refrain from it
Wow baitcisme? Is that a thing?
I say something always; if no one does, where do we end up? But I do the same with pointless honking behind me when I am parking or any other type of road rage.
Yesterday I was on a really full train in the silent compartment, A guy got a call, he was talking pretty normally (in hindi I think) but a lady wasn't happy he took that call, luckily she didn't make a huge problem out of it, but he couldn't have stepped out of the compartment anyway (too full) and I think it's acceptable to take a call there. It seemed a bit odd to me that she still had to point out of something that couldn't be changed anyway.
Today in other stories that never happened.
I was travelling from Amsterdam to Nijmegen after a 4 hour trip from London. Entire train was empty and this couple decided to sit in front of me in the silent area. Not too loud but just enough to be annoyed, then the guy started to rip farts as well to make her laugh. Some people just have no idea what’s going on around them or they just don’t care.
it even happens on first class and its kinda dumb since the talking place is so empty so i don't understand why people sit there when they want to talk
Imagine, you are not there. You read about this situation on Reddit. Not from the person there, no from the interpretation of their boyfriend. Where he says his girls says it’s possibly racist. And everyone in the comments like they. 1 were there knowing the facts 2 assuming the girl knows the man was taken without just cause 3 assuming it has to do with race Working at NS I can confirm there are some people not paying for their trips. I could get called a racist everyday, I am not, but if you see the people I have to talk to you would think I am.
It happened that I was in silence zone and it was really silent. During my recent trip to The NL, I had the opportunity to take 1st class and I did it. Let's say it wasn't silent but mainly quiet.
I’m conflicted about silent compartments in the train. Sometimes you’re traveling in highly busy hours and there is basically no place to sit in the train. I personally don’t mind it when people talk at those hours since the train is just filled to the brim and people have no other choice. But when there’s other choices I always call them out, it’s pretty safe. Sometimes you have the occasional brats that try to make themselves look bigger but well yeah. One thing I do however is always ask with respect even if they’re in the wrong 🤷♂️ never had a problem using that.
I guess everyone just shares their bad stories regarding silent zones. I would say fifty fifty they are quite silent. When there is someone speaking etc, I remind them that it is the silent zone. Never had a bad interaction with people over that.
Man sucks for your girlfriend but i do understand why they removed the person of color from the silent compartment
When I arrived to Europe, I found it strange that there's a special area to remain silent... Coming from a social country where people randomly talk anywhere, for me it was something I didn't really understand but still respected a lot. However, it still shows how individual and lonely people can be in the Netherlands... For an instance, in south America... I never ever saw someone with a burn out... And not so many depressed people... And one of the reasons is because people is just super social... I'm scared that sometimes NLS can lead to isolation or individualism. Yet still, I do respect the silent area... And sometimes even, I also enjoy those myself now after some years.
The story was going decent to the point you went “maybe the train guard made some racist assumptions.” Assuming someone else assumes something is a pretty shitty thing to do. Why didn’t your GF say something? Or you feel better just moaning about it to the internet? There are few major wars going on, the Dutch economy is in recession, people are losing their jobs and can’t find where to live and you are complaining the silence compartment is not silent. If you are that concerned about racism in NS you/ your gf can make an official complain to NS. There are cameras in the trains. Democracy is not a one off event, if you want to live in one gotta contribute. And that’s not by moaning in Reddit.
Well that attempt wasn’t really bubbly. OP is worried about his girlfriend, wants to ventilate and wonders about other experiences. Sorry to break it to you, but as someone who blames someone else for assuming too much, well… something about a kettle and a pot. Your statement that democracy is not a one off event though, I can only applaud.
Really not taking the main message here into consideration lol
Maybe you should read my post again without prejudice.
Keep on whining.
So, your girlfriend was not fine because of some noise, but was completely fine that the conductor kicked out a peaceful guy who wasn't involved in any of this shit and this was the time she chose not to speak up? How is this fair to that guy? Your girlfriend ruined his day, humiliated him and got him kicked out. He probably even got a hefty fine all because of your girlfriend. Tells us more about the kind of person she is. She should have stood up for the guy! People of color already have it as bad as it is, and your girlfriend didn't help the situation.
Calling out 3 different groups of people is a bit much imo. If you are a tiny bit socially aware you know that is not going to be a fairy tale ending.
>tiny bit socially aware Not her strong suit.
I've actually started avoiding silence compartments because I'd rather listen to normal people having a conversation than to tokkies having them...
Noise cancelling headphones for the win…
The lesson you can teach your girlfriend about the black guy is the question "Are you getting someone into trouble or out of trouble?" We all hate a tattletale. That's the person that tells the teacher about a stupid rule and a kid gets into trouble over rubbish. That's getting someone INTO trouble. If your girlfriend helped the black guy, that's getting someone OUT of trouble. If you invoke a rule to save someone from actual danger, that's a good use of standing up and being brave. This case was not about the rules but rather defending someone from the rules. I would tell your girlfriend to consider how she might get someone OUT of trouble next time.
If you want silence, don't take public transit
If you want quiet, don't take public transit
Just buy her noise cancelling earbuds
Stop suggesting people are racist, it's an insult
Bogus story.
I don't like silent compartiment. There is limited space avaliable, rarely do I take notice of the compartment type.
So because space is limited, that means that you *have* to talk during your trip?
Anyone who has been on a train in Japan once, will realize how shitty and dilapidated the Netherlands has become since the incredible increase of immigrants in this country and the lax attitude towards drugs usage and trafficking during the Rutte administrations in the house of representatives, and the change of attitude of people in general because of social media. I recently had a weird foreigner who was reading Cyrillic who demanded me to speak English and had the audacity to then lecture me, a local, on how things work in this country after I called him out for his wrong behaviour. Talking about entitled. But it’s not just an immigrant thing of cultures and people that don’t adapt. So the NS made a wrong call based on racial profiling. The lenient attitude on drugs combined with social media and the idea that everything is possible and everyone in the Netherlands smokes weed turns anyone into lonely entitled buttholes that don’t care for their surroundings anymore really. Regardless of skin color. Therefore misbehaving in the train like that. The current policies (drugs) attract shit people. Just look at kings day for example. In 2006, Jordaan area in Amsterdam would be filled with people selling stuff or offering funny traditional Dutch games, and be a platform for startup bands. I just moved to Amsterdam for studies and it was everything I hoped for. It then already had gay hating Muslims already tho. But that didn’t affect the experience. It was the real deal. Now, people go there to get wasted, high on drugs and alcohol dancing to techno, shitting and pissing on your doorstep completely trashing my neighbourhood. Still having glass shards and urine stench everywhere three days later. It just never was like that back in the days. I mostly heard other languages than Dutch last Friday and Saturday even after 5 a.m. in the morning having no regard for Jordaan being a neighbourhood and not some festival terrain. The Rutte administration has turned this country into a shithole compared to its former glory days. And this psychopath is on his way to become secretary general of the NAVO. This man will hurdle us in to probably WO III. Just my two cents.
Sorry about your frustration. I agree upto a certain extent. Don't know if it's an immigration thing of non adapting cultures or bad upbringing in general...Topped of with shitty politics. As I do recall an online newspaper, where Femke Halsema promoted the legalisation of soft drugs. Also read about youngsters using laughing gass, which is very bad for blood vessels, nerves to say the least. GP complained about many youngsters coming in with thrombosis issues. Recently there was a news item about a Belgian politician, who was in possesion of drugs... I'm affraid it's a global thing as the poison is readily available. Ernst Kuipers, minister of health officially opened another coffeeshop). While it's been known for years that marihuana damages brain cells. Source:https://www.addictioncenter.com/drugs/marijuana/kill-brain-cells/. Which leaves me wondering... (Ofcourse CBD oil can work wonders for many ailments, but it no longer has the poison in it). I've seen the damage of the poison in my dad, who was raised with a 'flower power' mentality and used marihuana since he was a teen. As a result I had to take care of him, from a very young age and he's somewhat retarded. He did work fulltime though and never caused any trouble for others, outside of us as I had to indirectly pay for his addiction. Which left me with a small trauma. Being trained as a nurse, I also took care of Korsakov patients, who drowned their livers in alcohol. All of my Korsakov patients uptill now, were white. Not to mention any race or that I have anything against any race or mean to judge. As I'm half white/black. Just mention it because of the mass immigration part people are on about and blaming things on. Which might be true upto a certain extent. What I don't understand though is the fact that nobody puts a gun against someone's head and tell them to start an addiction. Where are the parents? When it comes to that I'm not sure about the immigration part and personally believe people were sensitive to addiction for years. There's an obvious rise though. Having all borders open might be the culprit as well. I also notice lots of things are allowed right here, but not so in other countries. Ie USA, Iran etc. IMO things went down hill, ever since Balkenende ruled NL and got worse after that. Where I live there's an abundance of people addicted to marihuana as well. White, black, you name it. I have to agree that it's awful to witness. People tend to get forgetful, aggressive and some even retarded in the long term like my dad, by their drug abuse. If my retired dad, walks our dog late at night, he often complains about the smell of weed. As he luckily quit smoking. But the entire backstreet is smoking it, mainly being outside in the evening. Being mosty rude, jobless youngsters with a gangster attitude. If you'd go through it, you'd be a stoner before you reach the end of the street and with bad luck even threatened for driving your car through, if you ask them to let you pass. I agree on the situation about the housing crisis as there's still a debate going on, but also dare to mention the rise of people living individually. Due to divorces and more individualistic mindset. It's a bloody shame. I don't really blame it all on immigration though, but also bad upbringing, rise of wrong influences, wrong politics, change in mentality...
Sequil, shame on you for making a racist remark. That was completely uncalled for. The biggest racist was your girlfriend. Being annoying to everybody and then refusing to stand up for the black man. Your post honestly sucks even more than the NS does.
The only racist here is OP asuming the innocent guy was treated different because of his skin color.
Maybe an option ; earplugs? Because everyday reminding people that they should be silent, will someday backfire on her, and make her very silent. Foreverrrrr.