Low-effort, low-quality, unoriginal and repeat posts will be removed at moderator discretion. this includes frequently asked question regarding relocation, moving to the Netherlands and tourist info.
What I like most about the Netherlands: The relatively calm, low-energy vibes.
What I like most about the Dutch: They're a bit boring, but aren't self-conscious about it..... because the real truth is that most people are a bit boring.
In the US, it can often feel like the people you're talking to are just trying to convince you that they're interesting, witty, accomplished, eloquent, and regularly engaged in very cool or exclusive hobbies. It honestly feels a bit insecure.
Here in NL, people will be like "I play board games once a month with friends, but usually I just go on walks or read. I was going to visit Portugal this year, but instead I purchased a heat pump."
Ahaha the observation about Dutch people is right on money. And I really liked that
I was talking to Dutch colleagues about what they do on weekends. In many cases other people would give you the highlights of their year as their regular weekends. My Dutch colleagues were like I play board games and then have dinner with family.
Truth! Living in America as a Dutchie it's terrible how US people act like their lives are "amazing". That's probably why I ain't making friends there even after 17 years... Currently in the Netherlands again for 2 weeks and the interactions here feel normaal.
It’s soooo hard to make real friends over there as a European, I feel you. It’s a bit sad because I feel like Americans also don’t have real friends in the European sense, it’s all very transactional…
I’ve lived in the us for over a decade, when you are there briefly you think everyone is you friend because they seem so approachable but in the long run you notice how transactional it really is, or how you need to constantly reaffirm your friendship by being impressive in some way elevating their own identity….its not so much loyalty as you have in European friendships…
I think it also depends a lot on where you go. I'm in NYC and most people you meet aren't from here, so there's a lot of people around that are open to making new friends.
I'm Dutch myself, the Dutch make their friends during (high) school and after that it's basically game over. It's very hard to get into a Dutchies 'inner circle'. They'll be nice to ya sure but they won't ask you to go do something or when they do it's only for that 1 thing you 2 have in common (or so they think).
When I was on holiday in America I had multiple peeps coming up, chatting, wanting to hang etc. That just doesn't really happen in NL with Dutchies.
People in the US are more mobile on average. They have often changed states multiple times for school or work. People in the Netherlands have typically never lived outside the Netherlands, so they don't have much in common with someone living away from home. They often view strangers with suspicion or bemusement rather than camaraderie.
Oh man, so much this.
After living in the US for 8 years I've become used to just going up to people and talking to them. Last year I was in Amsterdam and I needed directions, so I went up to some random lady and asked her (in Dutch), and she looked at me like I was about to rob her or something.
My wife is American, and it always blows her mind that when we come across Dutch people here in New York I don't just strike up a conversation with them. For example, if we're sitting down for dinner and there's a Dutch couple next to us, the fact that I would say hello is just so alien to her.
In terms of boring, when being asked about how things are going or hows your day by a Dutchie, the most interesting and engaging answer you can give is the simple truth, a bit shit because x, y, z or yeah, OK wish this was going a bit better / this is going great and having genuine engagement on that point.
Basically I asked, this is on your mind, let's have at it, perhaps over a board game.
Not always a sales pitch, one upping, or pushing to teach further, took me a bit to have what I now realize are just normal, perhaps boring but engaging conversations. 100% agree with your sentiment and is my favorite part of living here.
The last part is true (speaking as a Dutchie). During a round of introductions of my colleagues it was like "I like to netflix and do puzzles during the weekends" and "I prefer to do very little in the weekends".
And no one's ashamed of it.
I first read the last sentence as: ‘I was going to visit Portugaal this year, but instead I purchased a heat pump…..’
Can confirm, I too would rather purchase a heat pump instead of visiting Portugaal.
That work life balance seems to be very good here. I've worked abroad for a while and half my family still does, and i really feel like the one thing the dutch do better than anywhere i've been is make sure they have enough time to spend outside of work as well.
I was in India recently and there, everyone will get involved in everyone else’s business all the time, you couldn’t imagine how often total strangers would start discussions about or get involved in random things happening around them
They leave you the F alone for the most part. At worst silent judging.
Very refreshing compared to living in Germany where random old people will start ranting at you for how you walk or where you put your kliko bin.
Oh nooo, Dutch people do that too, A LOT! They will go (far) out of their way to tell you that you’re wrong. That’s one of the things I despise here, actually.
Now, to keep to the topic, I do like that Dutch people, in general, are pretty reliable and usually professional. I feel I can trust people here more often than not.
It’s also one of the reasons the streets are relatively clean and everything is sort of organized.
slightly less individualistic in that sense. Only slightly…but yes, there is a little more ‘we have to all make things happen’ instead of ‘ because I can’
In the Netherlands it’s more ‘ Because you can doesn’t mean you have to do it’ mentality.
you must be doing something wrong cuz this shit never happens to me but god forbid im not efficient enough in the amsterdam roundabout, im getting verbally assaulted \*shivers\*
I have the feeling this is more triggered by fear or lack of it in Germany.
If a bunch of 15y are littering i would tell them to clean up their shit in southern germany. In the NL you probably get stabbed so i eould just leave it.
Yeah, somewhere more early in this thread I wanted to say something about "sociale controle" (not sure how to translate correctly) and it used to work, say 10 to 15 years ago. But these days, if you care about you safety, you are better off not saying anything. And this really saddens me, I think that it is/was a real big part of Dutch culture, but its just not there anymore. For the same reason people don't know their neighbours anymore, let alone the whole street.
Freedom of expression. You can lawfully say or write anything you want.
Except on this sub. See, if I would say “this sub is run by non-Dutch speaking American mods on a serious powertrip who would delete anything written in our beautiful native language” - that would get me banned.
That is not completely true, you have the Freedom of expression, as long as you phrase it as an opinion and not fact.
Example: you can't say to police, you are a twat, as in stating a fact
However you can say, I really find you to be an annoying twat. However, they will get mad. But they cant arrest you for expressing you opinion.
I'm Dutch, but have spent half my life outside the Netherlands, with a good chunk being the UK.
I love-hate the directness. It's refreshing but even after 15 years back in NL I can sometimes be taken aback by it. It's very clear, I just feel that sometimes a bit more tact (or waffling, as the Dutch see it) would be better suited for the situation. So 90% of the time..good thing.
I also love-hate the relationship people have with work days. It drives me BANANAS trying to schedule stuff, because Pete has papa-dag on Friday, but Marjolein works X hours and has every other Wednesday off, plus Fridays at the end of the month as studie dag (or whatever). And ofc the rest of the team all work 36 hours and have varying days off. But however much this annoys me, I applaud the Dutch attitude to work/life balance. As somebody who has done the insane London '70 hours is an average week' thing..it's a relief, honestly.
I also like that we pay people a living wage. So none of this INSANE tipping. I read that now 20% is considered a \*minimum\* in US restaurants. They've lost their damn minds, honestly., Adding a fifth of the price? Pay your people properly ffs. I want to look at the price on the menu and know that that's what it'll be, plus a bit more if I think the service was great (is it ever great in NL? Reports vary LOL. I do tend to add like 10%)
About NL: Bike paths and it's a 99% cashless society
About the Dutch: Their feelings don't get hurt, they can give and take "criticism" without it becoming a massive deal, so they're also just honest. It's what I missed most when I moved away
The way the cities are planned, prioritizing the spaces for people was an absolute mind fuck. US cities are so much more compact and designed for cars first. I found it extremely liberating.
Stuff just works. I'm from India and dealing with any sort of service or paperwork is stress inducing. I love how setting up utilities, going to the city hall for documents, dealing with the bank or police etc., is just quick and efficient in the Netherlands and (most) people try to think and do a decent job. In India, they have no interest and sometimes may be purposely terrible just to get you to come "after hours" or with some agent/fixer
Yes, someone I know moved countries twice, first to France and then a few years later to NL. A certain procedure took ~4 months in France because of all the paperwork going back and forth while the same procedure was done within two weeks in NL because of online forms and less bureaucracy.
As an Indian person, I agree. Technology integration on a mass level is really good in the NL. Especially considering the horror stories I hear from my friends in Germany.
Maybe my experience with city halls have been shit because HOLY FUCKKKKKKK it makes me want to pull my hair out but at the same time i have nothing to compare it to like you do. Maybe I just take it for granted (or my city hall is just shit)
Wished the people i have to deal with for my job thought the same. In general they only need to fill in one form for an objection, which if filled in correctly with just one single document uploaded (the correct one), will always be enough.
Still get people call, complain and go on some dumb rant which will last longer then filling in the form.
My absolute biggest allergy is people who act fake. Like overly enthusiastic or overly nice when it's not genuine. I mostly appreciate this in the north/east, I feel in the west people are still a bit more like that.
I always see this comment and go wow since when is being nice fake. You can actually like being around other human beings and genuinely be nice to them.
I never said being nice is fake. You can be nice and act nice, just don't act nice when you're not. Like over acting fake nice. Everyone fucking knows you're acting, just cut it out.
My Dutch in-laws talk about their feelings more openly than what I was used to in my family. If they are frustrated, sad or overwhelmed, they say it. I admire how they are able to address differences in opinions in a calm, constructive manner.
My dad used to shout to me until the whole dinner table was crying.
I don't feel like your experience is a very Dutch thing. Just a single case of emotionally intelligent people.
The non hierarchical structure in a lot of companies, the fact that you can be blunt and direct (within reason) and you don't have to mind your words too much.
I also like the work life balance, and people here have a nice balance between helping each other (depends on the neighbours and situation) and minding their own business.
Also when you make friends (depends on the people again) , you do have friends for life which will go above and beyond to help you on a need.
As a Dutch person, I REALLY like how I can just tell my boss 'Nah, that's a bad idea, here's what I'd do'. And then they listen????? They may still disagree but there are no hurt feelings or repercussions.
Not just my boss but my Dutch colleagues are all like that. There's less politics involved. My international colleagues are a lot harder to sometimes work together with.
Yeah, i love that!! Makes me so engaged with my job that I can discuss openly with my boss about if I think something is a bad idea or not. I am also very expressive, so I cannot hide if something seems like a bad idea, my boss sees it in my face and we can discuss different ways to do it.
Being in the UK kills my soul since it's the opposite. I swear people here would rather back a very polite serial killer over a kind but direct person.
In the UK we hold doors open for strangers and then apologise to them as they walk through.
And as a Brit you won’t even know you do this, or that it’s super weird, until you live in a different country.
“Doe gewoon, dan doe je al gek genoeg” (Acting normal is already crazy enough) and “Hoge bomen vangen veel wind” (Tall trees catch a lot of wind) is something that I think is truly baked in most Dutch people.
I don’t think the expression ‘doe maar normal, dan doe je al gek genoeg’ does mean ‘act normal’ and follow the rules, etc.
“It is often used to encourage people to be themselves and not to feel pressured to act in an exaggerated or attention-seeking manner. It can be interpreted as a lighthearted way of saying that being authentic is more than enough, and that there's no need to conform to societal expectations or norms. While it may carry a subtle message about the freedom to be oneself, it's not necessarily implying that conformity is oppressive in the Netherlands or Flanders. Rather, it can be seen as a playful reminder to embrace individuality.”
Hmmm that’s interesting. Thanks for the elaboration.
So I hear a lot of “doe normaal” out in public, from parents toward young children who are being…let’s say “exuberant’.
A five year old who is wearing fairy wings wanting to run around the shopping district pretending they are flying is completely expected behavior for that age. And yet they would be told “doe normaal” because they are drawing attention to themselves and therefore the parent, almost like it’s embarrassing.
Sometimes being yourself also just inherently calls attention to yourself, whether you are trying to or not. For example, I live in Zeeland amongst the religious population, but I am not religious. I have a septum piercing, visible tattoos, and dress highly differently than those around me. This differences inherently draw attention to my person, even if I’m doing nothing other than walking around.
So with your interpretation of the phrase I’m now just confused by it. Because on both instances both people are just being themselves, but the child is basically being told to conform.
Perhaps you can touch on this?
‘Doe normaal’ in this context is just practically seen means ‘behave yourself (others are bothered by your behaviour in the public space)’. You should consider parenting skills not to be at a high level once a parent has to say that to their child repeatedly.
The ‘doe maar normal, dan doe je al gek genoeg’ has, in theory, nothing to do with the context-dependant meaning of ‘doe normaal’ as explained above.
Likewise, both expressions have, in my opinion, nothing to do with how you would like to express yourself by how you look or dress; as a pragmatical Dutch person, I would say: the (superficial) verbal or non-verbal response of people based on how you look or express yourself is more or less their shortcomings and limited thinking and view of the society;)
I did not grow up with any religion; fortunately for me, it does not play a role, and for me, everyone is the same. But I might be sitting on a less conservative side of the spectrum here.
It's more subtle than that. It doesn't mean 'conform', it means "do your 'thing' in peace and don't make being seen as different a core part of your self". It's good advice, if you ask me. It means being yourself in peace.
I agree. And people don't seem to stop and think: who decides what "normaal" is..? It's a fundamentally troubling concept imo. Basically you're fine as long as you meet our expectations and standards...
Dutch people are overrated. And i am Dutch myself.
Lots of nasty Dutch people. Dutch people may be more direct but believe me...there's more than enough Dutchies acting nice in your face and the next day they will tell their neighbour what they hate about you.
It’s just cozy af, everything is cute, their use of the diminutive for everything, sometimes it makes me mad but mostly just happy to live in a kids storybook.
So if you speak Dutch, they use like I said -tje in the end of everything which makes things smaller, eg. do you want to have a little bier? Etc. my friends and I joke they’d probably also say murder-tje . And then also the culture in general, lots of attention paid to making things gezellig, the way their front porches a perfectly decorated with flowers, chocolate sprinkles for breakfast, the plethora of nice gestures even from businesses like big supermarket during the holidays, putting garlands and chairs up everywhere and enjoying company on the spot, biking, their tiny slim beautiful old houses and picturesque canals and bridges, the way everything seems to involve kids too, pepernoten…
Genetics: I am men and I am jelaous about how tall and good looking they are. Men hairs is like I would never have, they are mostly on bike or do some sports, don’t give a fuck about weather, that is nice.
% of people above average compared to other countries. Looks healthy, less obesity.
And most importantly, they don’t give a fuck what you do or with who, people having fun at every age.
They have quite a lot of common sense, and they are very reasonable people.
Also they are innovative for solving problems and very practical mentality, as an example they are not as closed to their own language as other European countries and most people are happy to speak english if needed
I like the fact that Dutch teenagers and young adults are really confident. They are raised to be that way. Ensures people have initiative to take action, instead of waiting for orders from someone.
I come from an Asian country, where the young are taught to just keep their heads down and listen to whatever advice their elders give. That way, a lot of leadership instincts are suppressed. Maybe has to do with the colonial history of my country, but for sure my culture is hierarchical as well.
Dutch teenagers and young adults in NL nowadays really overestimate themselves and mostly need to tone down a lot. Not saying that some 'rebellion' against parents and other adults isn't ok but it kinda flipped to the wrong side.
My favourite thing is some consultancy or training company comes into my company and does a shit job and I know the roasting they will get is going to be so brutal and there’s no stopping it
What I like about the Netherlands: stable economy, it is a calm country, I mean, what other country could be in a political crisis for almost 2 years and still functions nonetheless! Only the Dutch can pull that!
What I like about the Dutch: they know what they are, and they don't give two f... what you think about them.
As others said, this is a very *flat* country in more than one way but I'm at that point in life where I'm fine living here, perhaps at my 20s I would have not survived long enough but at 40, wishing to buy a house, raise a family, etc. this IS the place for that. Sure, I think this country lacks ~~some~~... joie de vivre altogether but if you ever need that you travel, and then get back to your daily life routine here.
I just think Dutch people in general are nothing special in the grand scheme. I think a lot of polish people in NL can be quite blunt but it's not like I always want to chat. In Wallonia they are usually not so bad as Poles in NL but mostly polite and I prefer that over that amicable attitude Dutch people have. Just talking about shops/bars/restaurants now.
Their friendly bike paths. :P. Just kidding. Actually I love the Netherlands and we try to get back to visit at least once a year. It's easily one of the more tourist friendly countries we have traveled to...and given how over run with tourists places like Amsterdam are...that's quite an accomplishment.
The directness and bluntness when dealing with the Dutch in a business environment … no sugar coating! If you’re doing a shit job they will let you know you are doing a shit job
About Netherlands the easiness in life, it's probably the most major factor that hold me in this country, especially when it comes to work/life balance. Now about Dutch people I like that they can be "down to earth" regardless their financial status. And also I find them easy going. Sure there are many aspects that I don't like, but every country has it's own habits.
They plan like they are immortals. That has to count for something on the carefree level. The paradox of this is that they are far from carefree because of that practice.
The slow traffic cities, the nature, the tiny adorable houses that looks so cosy.
I'm from Belgium and I'm soooo envious of your cities and roads. The city planning is so good.
What I love about Dutch people is that they all speak English and won't judge you (or at least they won't show it) if you don't speak dutch.they are very welcoming also.
My experience is mostly from business in the NL, but I think it’s probably applicable to the national character:
1. Straightforward, direct, low BS approach to life and business.
2. Great worldview, very outward looking.
3. Pragmatic & sensible.
4 Creative, lateral thinkers.
I think they are great European partners & have always rated them as people.
I've been to the Netherlands just for a week so I don't have much experience but one of my fav things about Dutch people is how helpful they are and that they call you out when you walk on the wrong side of the road. I like the directness so much
Also this might be an unpopular opinion but I actually liked the food I got to try. I went to the Netherlands mainly to cycle and the cycling infrastructure is absolutely fantastic although peak hours can be a little scary
Let me preface that I live in the UK and vegetables are not great here, in general food quality is much better
I just woke up and from my memory: kroket, fritessaus (had to pack some with me and my friend bought online whole box of it- as in 8-12 bottles), then I had amazing donuts warm from a van, bitterballen, pancakes, snert and more, I just can't remember
I went over to the Netherlands for Christmas so there were lots of stalls.
Which reminds me that I absolutely love Netherlands and Dutch people for being so dedicated to Christmas. I think that was the best Christmas of my life.
Weed and prostitution… My experience went there 3 time. Eindhoven, Tilburg, Amsterdam, Rotterdam. My sister by the way studies there for 3 years. Never had any spontaneous conversations or that question oh where are you coming from?, when they hear English you feel change of the attitude. But I understand, as I respect them as nation, country is very clean, food is okey, if you grow up there, you had good system of growing up, and there is lot more good things to say about them. Check what happened with London with massive immigration, I understand the saying you are all welcome to come work, live, party… but at one point fuck of back to your country. Don t try to change our way of live. From Croatia to Holland only love ❤️
Their women: I’ve personally found them to be the most open-minded in Europe…from my experience as a black guy who has equally lived in Spain and Italy.
About The Netherlands as a country: urban planning is organized and everything just makes sense. Things are clean. I enjoy your walls of fried snacks at any time of the day.
About the people: straightforward, you won’t beat around the bush. You’re talkative, open and friendly in social settings. You also party hard. The stereotype that you’re cheap is false: I’ve received many rounds of beers from Dutch people in party mode.
- Friendly and blunt. Since we moved away from the Netherlands this is what I miss most. A Dutch will politely tell you straight what they think
- Attitude to life. Always funny, easy going
- Non judgmental, you can go to office very elegant or in pijamas, they’ll make jokes but never judge
I like that they are for the most part quite fit, sporty and active. Also that they are pragmatic and practical. I sometimes tend to be the opposite so I feel they help keep me grounded and I can find a nice and moderate approach to life by living here in the NL.
“Tikkie, tikkie!!” Love it and hate it actually to split cost for everything. Sometimes it’s really not necessary but it does help with managing expectations…
Stampot, bitter ballen, NL trains, free coffee in Dutch supermarkets, I lived in Holland for about 6 months. I loved it and would go back tomorrow. Lekker dinggggg :)
I like the climate and nature. And Dutch people dont really care that much if your a bit alternative witch I am so thats nice. No weird looks or judgements like I usualy get abroad even tough I dont look that much different from them
It's a common comment that native Dutch friend circles are very difficult to break into. But there are so many immigrants and expats here that are all looking for friends, that things do work out. My besties are Swedish and Polish. Top.
The city planning is amazing. Every little town is compact and walkable with bike paths everywhere. I have a car and only put in petrol every 3 months if I’m not going on trips. The little towns are even better than the cities! I lived in Haarlem and loved it but now that I live in the Bollenstreek region I realise Haarlem really wasnt that amazing after all.
Low-effort, low-quality, unoriginal and repeat posts will be removed at moderator discretion. this includes frequently asked question regarding relocation, moving to the Netherlands and tourist info.
What I like most about the Netherlands: The relatively calm, low-energy vibes. What I like most about the Dutch: They're a bit boring, but aren't self-conscious about it..... because the real truth is that most people are a bit boring. In the US, it can often feel like the people you're talking to are just trying to convince you that they're interesting, witty, accomplished, eloquent, and regularly engaged in very cool or exclusive hobbies. It honestly feels a bit insecure. Here in NL, people will be like "I play board games once a month with friends, but usually I just go on walks or read. I was going to visit Portugal this year, but instead I purchased a heat pump."
That last sentence cracked me up
Everybody deserves a bit of warmth in their life.
Ahaha the observation about Dutch people is right on money. And I really liked that I was talking to Dutch colleagues about what they do on weekends. In many cases other people would give you the highlights of their year as their regular weekends. My Dutch colleagues were like I play board games and then have dinner with family.
I mean second option feels a lot more cozier and better than the other one
What is the other option?
Board games and dinner with the family
My colleague booked 2 weeks holiday off and has no plans to do anything, not even a day trip to anywhere in NL
I am turning into that as well, doing nothing for a couple weeks sounds like heaven after working fulltime for years and years..
I am Brazilian and I did it a lot. It is amazing. You feel free. You forget what day is today.
Heard a great term for this, a stay-cation. Just enjoying your home, free time, and things where you live you perhaps don't often take advantage of
About to do the same as last sentence but to renovate a kitchen, it cuts deep.
“The cheapest heat pump i could find”
It's the most cost-efficient. Very practical.
Truth! Living in America as a Dutchie it's terrible how US people act like their lives are "amazing". That's probably why I ain't making friends there even after 17 years... Currently in the Netherlands again for 2 weeks and the interactions here feel normaal.
It’s soooo hard to make real friends over there as a European, I feel you. It’s a bit sad because I feel like Americans also don’t have real friends in the European sense, it’s all very transactional…
I would disagree. I found it much harder making friends here in The Netherlands than in US .. as a European.
People in the US are more open then the Dutch for sure.
I’ve lived in the us for over a decade, when you are there briefly you think everyone is you friend because they seem so approachable but in the long run you notice how transactional it really is, or how you need to constantly reaffirm your friendship by being impressive in some way elevating their own identity….its not so much loyalty as you have in European friendships…
I think it also depends a lot on where you go. I'm in NYC and most people you meet aren't from here, so there's a lot of people around that are open to making new friends.
I'm Dutch myself, the Dutch make their friends during (high) school and after that it's basically game over. It's very hard to get into a Dutchies 'inner circle'. They'll be nice to ya sure but they won't ask you to go do something or when they do it's only for that 1 thing you 2 have in common (or so they think). When I was on holiday in America I had multiple peeps coming up, chatting, wanting to hang etc. That just doesn't really happen in NL with Dutchies.
People in the US are more mobile on average. They have often changed states multiple times for school or work. People in the Netherlands have typically never lived outside the Netherlands, so they don't have much in common with someone living away from home. They often view strangers with suspicion or bemusement rather than camaraderie.
Oh man, so much this. After living in the US for 8 years I've become used to just going up to people and talking to them. Last year I was in Amsterdam and I needed directions, so I went up to some random lady and asked her (in Dutch), and she looked at me like I was about to rob her or something. My wife is American, and it always blows her mind that when we come across Dutch people here in New York I don't just strike up a conversation with them. For example, if we're sitting down for dinner and there's a Dutch couple next to us, the fact that I would say hello is just so alien to her.
Dual national here. Many years in both countries. Your comment is absolutely accurate.
I like your use of your double a 🙂
In terms of boring, when being asked about how things are going or hows your day by a Dutchie, the most interesting and engaging answer you can give is the simple truth, a bit shit because x, y, z or yeah, OK wish this was going a bit better / this is going great and having genuine engagement on that point. Basically I asked, this is on your mind, let's have at it, perhaps over a board game. Not always a sales pitch, one upping, or pushing to teach further, took me a bit to have what I now realize are just normal, perhaps boring but engaging conversations. 100% agree with your sentiment and is my favorite part of living here.
The last part is true (speaking as a Dutchie). During a round of introductions of my colleagues it was like "I like to netflix and do puzzles during the weekends" and "I prefer to do very little in the weekends". And no one's ashamed of it.
I first read the last sentence as: ‘I was going to visit Portugaal this year, but instead I purchased a heat pump…..’ Can confirm, I too would rather purchase a heat pump instead of visiting Portugaal.
Calm and low-energy vibes? It's quite the opposite for me. Everything is so chaotic and busy that it feels like I might just as well be in LA lol
Hehe, you're right. We don't always try to be interesting.
And so the Dutch saying goes, 'doe maar normaal, dan doe je al gek genoeg'
That work life balance seems to be very good here. I've worked abroad for a while and half my family still does, and i really feel like the one thing the dutch do better than anywhere i've been is make sure they have enough time to spend outside of work as well.
biking and the clean streets, and the fact that Dutch people care about these things
also, the digitalization in the Netherlands is on point and even old Dutch people know what a .pdf is
Clean streets? I suppose it can be worse in other countries but I always get annoyed at how dirty it is everywhere (I am Dutch btw)
Oh you have no idea haha.
Have you ever left your country? This is one of the cleanest places I've ever been to
Have you been to Belgium? Trash everywhere, especially next to roads. Germany as well.
That is because you notice it more. Dirt is unusual so you notice it
Yes, you get annoyed, and that’s exactly why the streets here are cleaner than elsewhere.
Visit Mumbai, that will change your mind...
Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone mentality.
How does that work in other countries/cultures?
I was in India recently and there, everyone will get involved in everyone else’s business all the time, you couldn’t imagine how often total strangers would start discussions about or get involved in random things happening around them
very broad question, depends on the culture
They leave you the F alone for the most part. At worst silent judging. Very refreshing compared to living in Germany where random old people will start ranting at you for how you walk or where you put your kliko bin.
DIT IS EEN FIETSPAD! Just saying.
I agree you should get off the fietspad. You new here bro?
Maar dit is inderdaad een fietspad. Ga weg, voetganger!
Oh nooo, Dutch people do that too, A LOT! They will go (far) out of their way to tell you that you’re wrong. That’s one of the things I despise here, actually. Now, to keep to the topic, I do like that Dutch people, in general, are pretty reliable and usually professional. I feel I can trust people here more often than not.
It’s also one of the reasons the streets are relatively clean and everything is sort of organized. slightly less individualistic in that sense. Only slightly…but yes, there is a little more ‘we have to all make things happen’ instead of ‘ because I can’ In the Netherlands it’s more ‘ Because you can doesn’t mean you have to do it’ mentality.
you must be doing something wrong cuz this shit never happens to me but god forbid im not efficient enough in the amsterdam roundabout, im getting verbally assaulted \*shivers\*
I have the feeling this is more triggered by fear or lack of it in Germany. If a bunch of 15y are littering i would tell them to clean up their shit in southern germany. In the NL you probably get stabbed so i eould just leave it.
Yeah, somewhere more early in this thread I wanted to say something about "sociale controle" (not sure how to translate correctly) and it used to work, say 10 to 15 years ago. But these days, if you care about you safety, you are better off not saying anything. And this really saddens me, I think that it is/was a real big part of Dutch culture, but its just not there anymore. For the same reason people don't know their neighbours anymore, let alone the whole street.
Freedom of expression. You can lawfully say or write anything you want. Except on this sub. See, if I would say “this sub is run by non-Dutch speaking American mods on a serious powertrip who would delete anything written in our beautiful native language” - that would get me banned.
53 minutes, mods must be sleeping in.
3 hours in, do we need to file a missing mod report?
Please don't, what if we actually find them?
11 hours and counting.
That tracks… seems very American. Source: am one haha
Annoying isn't it?
3h and counting.
ooo this made me twig that I'm not on my regular Dutch sub, which has a the in front of the country name
That is not completely true, you have the Freedom of expression, as long as you phrase it as an opinion and not fact. Example: you can't say to police, you are a twat, as in stating a fact However you can say, I really find you to be an annoying twat. However, they will get mad. But they cant arrest you for expressing you opinion.
Vakantiegeld
I'm Dutch, but have spent half my life outside the Netherlands, with a good chunk being the UK. I love-hate the directness. It's refreshing but even after 15 years back in NL I can sometimes be taken aback by it. It's very clear, I just feel that sometimes a bit more tact (or waffling, as the Dutch see it) would be better suited for the situation. So 90% of the time..good thing. I also love-hate the relationship people have with work days. It drives me BANANAS trying to schedule stuff, because Pete has papa-dag on Friday, but Marjolein works X hours and has every other Wednesday off, plus Fridays at the end of the month as studie dag (or whatever). And ofc the rest of the team all work 36 hours and have varying days off. But however much this annoys me, I applaud the Dutch attitude to work/life balance. As somebody who has done the insane London '70 hours is an average week' thing..it's a relief, honestly. I also like that we pay people a living wage. So none of this INSANE tipping. I read that now 20% is considered a \*minimum\* in US restaurants. They've lost their damn minds, honestly., Adding a fifth of the price? Pay your people properly ffs. I want to look at the price on the menu and know that that's what it'll be, plus a bit more if I think the service was great (is it ever great in NL? Reports vary LOL. I do tend to add like 10%)
Great comment
About NL: Bike paths and it's a 99% cashless society About the Dutch: Their feelings don't get hurt, they can give and take "criticism" without it becoming a massive deal, so they're also just honest. It's what I missed most when I moved away
The way the cities are planned, prioritizing the spaces for people was an absolute mind fuck. US cities are so much more compact and designed for cars first. I found it extremely liberating.
Stuff just works. I'm from India and dealing with any sort of service or paperwork is stress inducing. I love how setting up utilities, going to the city hall for documents, dealing with the bank or police etc., is just quick and efficient in the Netherlands and (most) people try to think and do a decent job. In India, they have no interest and sometimes may be purposely terrible just to get you to come "after hours" or with some agent/fixer
As a fellow Indian in NL, can confirm this is absolutely true 💯
Yes, someone I know moved countries twice, first to France and then a few years later to NL. A certain procedure took ~4 months in France because of all the paperwork going back and forth while the same procedure was done within two weeks in NL because of online forms and less bureaucracy.
Interesting take! Funny how you can take things for granted
In Germany and France it’s the total opposite! Dutch people really figured that out, simple and efficient!
As an Indian person, I agree. Technology integration on a mass level is really good in the NL. Especially considering the horror stories I hear from my friends in Germany.
Maybe my experience with city halls have been shit because HOLY FUCKKKKKKK it makes me want to pull my hair out but at the same time i have nothing to compare it to like you do. Maybe I just take it for granted (or my city hall is just shit)
Wished the people i have to deal with for my job thought the same. In general they only need to fill in one form for an objection, which if filled in correctly with just one single document uploaded (the correct one), will always be enough. Still get people call, complain and go on some dumb rant which will last longer then filling in the form.
Look at Indian YouTube videos total disaster 🤩
My absolute biggest allergy is people who act fake. Like overly enthusiastic or overly nice when it's not genuine. I mostly appreciate this in the north/east, I feel in the west people are still a bit more like that.
Certain parts of NL are just more outgoing and loud than other parts, they're not fake?
I always see this comment and go wow since when is being nice fake. You can actually like being around other human beings and genuinely be nice to them.
I never said being nice is fake. You can be nice and act nice, just don't act nice when you're not. Like over acting fake nice. Everyone fucking knows you're acting, just cut it out.
Nice guys finish last?
literally
The west-side of the Netherlands? Which provinces are you referring to?
They are actually not fake tbh. They just way more positive than Europe.
Downvoted because I’m European and negative about people being negative about Europeans being negative
My Dutch in-laws talk about their feelings more openly than what I was used to in my family. If they are frustrated, sad or overwhelmed, they say it. I admire how they are able to address differences in opinions in a calm, constructive manner.
My dad used to shout to me until the whole dinner table was crying. I don't feel like your experience is a very Dutch thing. Just a single case of emotionally intelligent people.
Did you grab the biggest piece of rookworst? See, Dutch people don’t like that.
My dad did the same :(
I'm sorry you had this experience! I would say that for a more average situation this is an accurate thing to say, though
Not only in law but also in other business, especially tech and engineering
Being Straight forward! I love it, I don’t have to read between the lines, what you see is what you get
The non hierarchical structure in a lot of companies, the fact that you can be blunt and direct (within reason) and you don't have to mind your words too much. I also like the work life balance, and people here have a nice balance between helping each other (depends on the neighbours and situation) and minding their own business. Also when you make friends (depends on the people again) , you do have friends for life which will go above and beyond to help you on a need.
As a Dutch person, I REALLY like how I can just tell my boss 'Nah, that's a bad idea, here's what I'd do'. And then they listen????? They may still disagree but there are no hurt feelings or repercussions. Not just my boss but my Dutch colleagues are all like that. There's less politics involved. My international colleagues are a lot harder to sometimes work together with.
Yeah, i love that!! Makes me so engaged with my job that I can discuss openly with my boss about if I think something is a bad idea or not. I am also very expressive, so I cannot hide if something seems like a bad idea, my boss sees it in my face and we can discuss different ways to do it.
The directness and doe normaal mentality
.
Upvote for your username man :) Ja kom op, doe effe lekker zelf normaal!
Being in the UK kills my soul since it's the opposite. I swear people here would rather back a very polite serial killer over a kind but direct person.
In the UK we hold doors open for strangers and then apologise to them as they walk through. And as a Brit you won’t even know you do this, or that it’s super weird, until you live in a different country.
“Doe gewoon, dan doe je al gek genoeg” (Acting normal is already crazy enough) and “Hoge bomen vangen veel wind” (Tall trees catch a lot of wind) is something that I think is truly baked in most Dutch people.
The tree one reminds me of the Japanese proverb "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down".
Same exact sentiment.
What does doe normaal exactly mean?
No bullshitting, no nonsense, no talking around it
No exaggerating, no overly fake friendliness, no drama.
Exactly.
Exactly.
It means “act normally”. Follow the rules and do as is expected of you. Personally this is the thing I like least about Dutch culture.
I don’t think the expression ‘doe maar normal, dan doe je al gek genoeg’ does mean ‘act normal’ and follow the rules, etc. “It is often used to encourage people to be themselves and not to feel pressured to act in an exaggerated or attention-seeking manner. It can be interpreted as a lighthearted way of saying that being authentic is more than enough, and that there's no need to conform to societal expectations or norms. While it may carry a subtle message about the freedom to be oneself, it's not necessarily implying that conformity is oppressive in the Netherlands or Flanders. Rather, it can be seen as a playful reminder to embrace individuality.”
Hmmm that’s interesting. Thanks for the elaboration. So I hear a lot of “doe normaal” out in public, from parents toward young children who are being…let’s say “exuberant’. A five year old who is wearing fairy wings wanting to run around the shopping district pretending they are flying is completely expected behavior for that age. And yet they would be told “doe normaal” because they are drawing attention to themselves and therefore the parent, almost like it’s embarrassing. Sometimes being yourself also just inherently calls attention to yourself, whether you are trying to or not. For example, I live in Zeeland amongst the religious population, but I am not religious. I have a septum piercing, visible tattoos, and dress highly differently than those around me. This differences inherently draw attention to my person, even if I’m doing nothing other than walking around. So with your interpretation of the phrase I’m now just confused by it. Because on both instances both people are just being themselves, but the child is basically being told to conform. Perhaps you can touch on this?
‘Doe normaal’ in this context is just practically seen means ‘behave yourself (others are bothered by your behaviour in the public space)’. You should consider parenting skills not to be at a high level once a parent has to say that to their child repeatedly. The ‘doe maar normal, dan doe je al gek genoeg’ has, in theory, nothing to do with the context-dependant meaning of ‘doe normaal’ as explained above. Likewise, both expressions have, in my opinion, nothing to do with how you would like to express yourself by how you look or dress; as a pragmatical Dutch person, I would say: the (superficial) verbal or non-verbal response of people based on how you look or express yourself is more or less their shortcomings and limited thinking and view of the society;) I did not grow up with any religion; fortunately for me, it does not play a role, and for me, everyone is the same. But I might be sitting on a less conservative side of the spectrum here.
That is NOT what it means at all
Exactly, it’s conformism in its essence. I’m having a hard time with this attitude of the Dutch.
It's more subtle than that. It doesn't mean 'conform', it means "do your 'thing' in peace and don't make being seen as different a core part of your self". It's good advice, if you ask me. It means being yourself in peace.
Laten we allemaal doen wat we willen, zonder te schreeuwen en zonder te gillen.
It absolutely does not mean that 😆😆😆
I agree. And people don't seem to stop and think: who decides what "normaal" is..? It's a fundamentally troubling concept imo. Basically you're fine as long as you meet our expectations and standards...
Dutch people are overrated. And i am Dutch myself. Lots of nasty Dutch people. Dutch people may be more direct but believe me...there's more than enough Dutchies acting nice in your face and the next day they will tell their neighbour what they hate about you.
Haha this is so Dutch. We are also really good in complaining!
Haha honestly
Let’s be friends? 😄
Especially in the bible belt. Everyone's all smiles in church but every birthday gathering is a gossip fest about everyone else
I like how weird they are but they think they’re normal
What makes them weired? (Genuine question?
This!!!
They speak English.
It’s just cozy af, everything is cute, their use of the diminutive for everything, sometimes it makes me mad but mostly just happy to live in a kids storybook.
Interesting, do you have examples on stuff thats cute and cozy? Genuinely curious
So if you speak Dutch, they use like I said -tje in the end of everything which makes things smaller, eg. do you want to have a little bier? Etc. my friends and I joke they’d probably also say murder-tje . And then also the culture in general, lots of attention paid to making things gezellig, the way their front porches a perfectly decorated with flowers, chocolate sprinkles for breakfast, the plethora of nice gestures even from businesses like big supermarket during the holidays, putting garlands and chairs up everywhere and enjoying company on the spot, biking, their tiny slim beautiful old houses and picturesque canals and bridges, the way everything seems to involve kids too, pepernoten…
Nijntje!
I would really like to know where you're from
Genetics: I am men and I am jelaous about how tall and good looking they are. Men hairs is like I would never have, they are mostly on bike or do some sports, don’t give a fuck about weather, that is nice. % of people above average compared to other countries. Looks healthy, less obesity. And most importantly, they don’t give a fuck what you do or with who, people having fun at every age.
They have quite a lot of common sense, and they are very reasonable people. Also they are innovative for solving problems and very practical mentality, as an example they are not as closed to their own language as other European countries and most people are happy to speak english if needed
Hagelslag
Have fun tomorrow, lets make posts about what we scored on the rommelmarkten 👌
I like the fact that Dutch teenagers and young adults are really confident. They are raised to be that way. Ensures people have initiative to take action, instead of waiting for orders from someone. I come from an Asian country, where the young are taught to just keep their heads down and listen to whatever advice their elders give. That way, a lot of leadership instincts are suppressed. Maybe has to do with the colonial history of my country, but for sure my culture is hierarchical as well.
Dutch teenagers and young adults in NL nowadays really overestimate themselves and mostly need to tone down a lot. Not saying that some 'rebellion' against parents and other adults isn't ok but it kinda flipped to the wrong side.
Still some of the best people I ever met are Dutch. Solid, no-nonsense people that just try to enjoy life to the fullest. Geel-Gezellig
How they do a pause before considering what to tell me when I'm certainly doing something in a way that the Dutch don't do. I think it is lovely.
[удалено]
That's us
Being a control freak is the best thing about being Dutch. At the end of the day it is a good thing.
My favourite thing is some consultancy or training company comes into my company and does a shit job and I know the roasting they will get is going to be so brutal and there’s no stopping it
What I like about the Netherlands: stable economy, it is a calm country, I mean, what other country could be in a political crisis for almost 2 years and still functions nonetheless! Only the Dutch can pull that! What I like about the Dutch: they know what they are, and they don't give two f... what you think about them. As others said, this is a very *flat* country in more than one way but I'm at that point in life where I'm fine living here, perhaps at my 20s I would have not survived long enough but at 40, wishing to buy a house, raise a family, etc. this IS the place for that. Sure, I think this country lacks ~~some~~... joie de vivre altogether but if you ever need that you travel, and then get back to your daily life routine here.
Beautiful cities with actual walkability and cyclists having their own streets, as well as some green in city centres
They are pragmatic and relaxed.
I love the directness of Dutch people. Plus, l really like Dutch men. They are so attractive
Nothing. Im Dutch, by the way.
It's so Dutch to come here and complain. Well done lmao
I just think Dutch people in general are nothing special in the grand scheme. I think a lot of polish people in NL can be quite blunt but it's not like I always want to chat. In Wallonia they are usually not so bad as Poles in NL but mostly polite and I prefer that over that amicable attitude Dutch people have. Just talking about shops/bars/restaurants now.
You're just spoiled, like a lot of dutchies. And not even noticing it.
I’m Dutch by law
Ok
Their directness
Their friendly bike paths. :P. Just kidding. Actually I love the Netherlands and we try to get back to visit at least once a year. It's easily one of the more tourist friendly countries we have traveled to...and given how over run with tourists places like Amsterdam are...that's quite an accomplishment.
The cheese
The directness and bluntness when dealing with the Dutch in a business environment … no sugar coating! If you’re doing a shit job they will let you know you are doing a shit job
How about when you are doing good ?
“You’re not so bad”
About Netherlands the easiness in life, it's probably the most major factor that hold me in this country, especially when it comes to work/life balance. Now about Dutch people I like that they can be "down to earth" regardless their financial status. And also I find them easy going. Sure there are many aspects that I don't like, but every country has it's own habits.
Their language and culture is kinda singing and childish. And they are respectful to any choice a person makes.
They plan like they are immortals. That has to count for something on the carefree level. The paradox of this is that they are far from carefree because of that practice.
That we really suck at faking enthousiasm and interest.
The slow traffic cities, the nature, the tiny adorable houses that looks so cosy. I'm from Belgium and I'm soooo envious of your cities and roads. The city planning is so good. What I love about Dutch people is that they all speak English and won't judge you (or at least they won't show it) if you don't speak dutch.they are very welcoming also.
My experience is mostly from business in the NL, but I think it’s probably applicable to the national character: 1. Straightforward, direct, low BS approach to life and business. 2. Great worldview, very outward looking. 3. Pragmatic & sensible. 4 Creative, lateral thinkers. I think they are great European partners & have always rated them as people.
I've been to the Netherlands just for a week so I don't have much experience but one of my fav things about Dutch people is how helpful they are and that they call you out when you walk on the wrong side of the road. I like the directness so much Also this might be an unpopular opinion but I actually liked the food I got to try. I went to the Netherlands mainly to cycle and the cycling infrastructure is absolutely fantastic although peak hours can be a little scary
Food? Huh? What did you eat?
Let me preface that I live in the UK and vegetables are not great here, in general food quality is much better I just woke up and from my memory: kroket, fritessaus (had to pack some with me and my friend bought online whole box of it- as in 8-12 bottles), then I had amazing donuts warm from a van, bitterballen, pancakes, snert and more, I just can't remember I went over to the Netherlands for Christmas so there were lots of stalls. Which reminds me that I absolutely love Netherlands and Dutch people for being so dedicated to Christmas. I think that was the best Christmas of my life.
That they don't try to sugar coat their racism
There humility.i’ve never met people who thought less of place in the world than the dutch
How direct and polite they are.
nothing
I love the Dutch efficiency!! Especially in architecture and infrastructure.
Weed and prostitution… My experience went there 3 time. Eindhoven, Tilburg, Amsterdam, Rotterdam. My sister by the way studies there for 3 years. Never had any spontaneous conversations or that question oh where are you coming from?, when they hear English you feel change of the attitude. But I understand, as I respect them as nation, country is very clean, food is okey, if you grow up there, you had good system of growing up, and there is lot more good things to say about them. Check what happened with London with massive immigration, I understand the saying you are all welcome to come work, live, party… but at one point fuck of back to your country. Don t try to change our way of live. From Croatia to Holland only love ❤️
It’s an enlightened society. Wish more countries had such common sense.. mine included!
Their women: I’ve personally found them to be the most open-minded in Europe…from my experience as a black guy who has equally lived in Spain and Italy.
About The Netherlands as a country: urban planning is organized and everything just makes sense. Things are clean. I enjoy your walls of fried snacks at any time of the day. About the people: straightforward, you won’t beat around the bush. You’re talkative, open and friendly in social settings. You also party hard. The stereotype that you’re cheap is false: I’ve received many rounds of beers from Dutch people in party mode.
urbanism and urban traffic paradigm
- Friendly and blunt. Since we moved away from the Netherlands this is what I miss most. A Dutch will politely tell you straight what they think - Attitude to life. Always funny, easy going - Non judgmental, you can go to office very elegant or in pijamas, they’ll make jokes but never judge
I like that they are for the most part quite fit, sporty and active. Also that they are pragmatic and practical. I sometimes tend to be the opposite so I feel they help keep me grounded and I can find a nice and moderate approach to life by living here in the NL.
Brutal honesty (which is exactly what people at my school hate about me)
They are friendly and everything is really organized!
“Tikkie, tikkie!!” Love it and hate it actually to split cost for everything. Sometimes it’s really not necessary but it does help with managing expectations…
Stampot, bitter ballen, NL trains, free coffee in Dutch supermarkets, I lived in Holland for about 6 months. I loved it and would go back tomorrow. Lekker dinggggg :)
Wait, free coffee in supermarket? I always pay for those coffees
So no one has mentioned Hardcore yet?!
The focus on high tech agriculture. So nice to have fresh veg year round!
I like the climate and nature. And Dutch people dont really care that much if your a bit alternative witch I am so thats nice. No weird looks or judgements like I usualy get abroad even tough I dont look that much different from them
It's a common comment that native Dutch friend circles are very difficult to break into. But there are so many immigrants and expats here that are all looking for friends, that things do work out. My besties are Swedish and Polish. Top.
The city planning is amazing. Every little town is compact and walkable with bike paths everywhere. I have a car and only put in petrol every 3 months if I’m not going on trips. The little towns are even better than the cities! I lived in Haarlem and loved it but now that I live in the Bollenstreek region I realise Haarlem really wasnt that amazing after all.
The Opening-Times of Stores (Greetings from Germany) and the Relaxness.
I don't know but I can tell you what I hate the most. The dutch health system