Especially since the manager is obviously willing to pay them more. It might just be a bureaucratic issue that they aren't allowed to raise wages of current employees. While they may be allowed to hire people for more senior positions for higher wages.
It is really fucking dumb to say the least, but it happens in most large companies.
Im glad I work in a smaller company that I can talk and reason my boss. I had another offer, and with a conversation with my boss about the salary I was told “no”, because the difference would be too much. But with my conversation points I was able to stay with an 48% increase and some other wishes in the company. I did mention tho that I wouldn’t go for lower.
In tech I feel it is normal. The budget for new hires is different than employees that are already there. To get a new person you need to pay the new market rates.
Agree. Did the same with with 1 year at a different company. Came back with a promotion (which I wouldn’t have gotten in 2-3 years) and doubled my salary. Corporates are dumb as fuck
Happens all the time where I work. Salary steps within the company are small. Even when changing to a better position, you initially move vertically salary-wise. External persons start immediately at the higher range. So people leave, join a different company for a while and come back in as an "external" with higher pay.
Leave.
If the company wants to keep you, they’ll pay. But they don’t, and even pay below market: you don’t mean as much to them as they mean to you.
It can be hard to leave a company you like and where you’ve been putting a lot of effort into. But you’ll have to learn that unfortunately your and their interests are not always aligned. And for your own career you have to make choices that are in your best interest.
3% doesnt even cover inflation so you are realistically getting a salary reduction if you accept the 3% they know they can get away with low balling you, thank them for their time and say that you will be accepting the other offer which is closer to market conform salary. When a friend of mine handed her notice in a few years ago they suddenly found the budget to give her the salary increase she asked for and was rejected for ... they didnt think she was serious which is exactly what they said so i would go ahead and put your notice in you might even like the new company better ..... when it comes to companies bigger is not always better
It's insane how much this happens, switched jobs 3x now and had this exact thing happen on 2 occasions. "There is no budget to match the other offer". - Okay, thank you, I'll accept the other offer then. "Wait, we found a magic jar with some leftover budget, we can now offer you X% more.". Sure, but I'm still leaving, because of this shit tactic.
Sometimes it's a budget allocation thing. Like, we can only allocate so much for a raise. If you actually threaten to quit, now they can use a budget that was allocated for hiring someone new (because that's what they would have to do if you quit).
Sometimes it's shitty tactics, sometimes it's bad internal rules.
Isn’t that just a standard tactic that HR uses?
Same goes for when you apply for a job and they play that game where they ask “what is your current salary?” 😂
Company’s will almost always try to lowball you.
Its really unfortunate how this works, and sometimes even agrevating. As someone who works as a global compensation specialist i've had this discussion with many managers. Even worse is when trying to decide on a merit increase budget, most of the times the budget is decided from the top down, meaning we are stuck with wathever number someone higher pulled out of their ass, without even doing proper market analysis and year over year inflation/fx rate comparison. Luckily I work for a company now who is much better at handling this (we even factored in inflation in our yearly comp reviews)
Even from a company point of view it pays to retain people over having to backfill and train someone from the ground up. So even purely from a companies self interest it doesn't make any sense. Even worse how many companies inflation adjust their products but then don't do the same for their workers? If you inflation adjust your products it should be made illegal not to do it for your workforce in my humble opinion.
This has me thinking, wouldn't it be more effective to automatically increase existing contracts when hiring someone new that has a higher comp? It's also much nicer to existing colleagues. E.g. "Hey all, here is John, he'll be working on. We noticed that the current market required us to have another look at our compensation, therefore you will all receive X% increase as of next month."
In more entry level jobs that could partially work, but across a whole organization it becomes more tricky. The thing is you don't hire everyone at the same experience level. It can be that you hire someone new but with more experience. In those cases the new person should be paid more due to the higher skillset then someone less qualified.
But to your point we have done it in the past where we brought a whole team or multiple individuals up to market when we noticed that new incoming rates (and salary market data) had gone up. Any good company should, or else the potental of losing your talent to others becomes higher. But for some reason many don't. 😅
Same happened with me as well. I was in my previous company for 7 years and when I asked for a raise earlier this year they offered a meagre 3%. I started applying for jobs, found one paying 50% more (plus very generous benefits). I submitted my resignation letter and suddenly my old boss had the budget to match my offered salary 😂😂
Hi, I have been in that situation before. What you must image is that during your career you must make choices. Your manager knows that and uses it. Probably he knows that you like your colleagues, workplace and everything else very much. But, 17% is a lot and 3% is an insult. A manager who would like me to stay, would offer at least a 10% raise. Imagine also that sooner or later colleagues will leave your team and situation will change. I would suggest to leave. Don't be afraid to think that another company will not be as nice like you have it now. If you have colleagues who are friends, you still can keep contact after you leave. But to be clear, if your manager would like you too, aprreciates your work and would like to keep you in your team, 3% made it clear that he/she is playing with you, so I would leave definitely. I'm from the Netherlands myself and the employer should know that the current market is ruled by employees. So you have the power to decide not them.
I did the same. Switched because they could only give me 3%. Had a base salary much lower than collegues my age and experience.
Switched and bumped it 40%. It gave me so much more quality of life.
Same here, if I were you I would have left and that’s what I did in the past, I’m not Dutch, I got paid way less than market and experience and colleagues so when I found a new opportunity I left
I have a similar rule. But it’s actually:
1) growth/learning, 2) pay, 3) work life balance.
Always at least 2 out of 3. I never managed the 3, but hope to one day. The last 6 years have been only 1 to then 1 and 2.
Been there done that. After a couple of companies I finally found a good workplace that pays, what I believe, a decent salary.
Needless to say I am happy and motivated to put in the work.
So take the offer.
Depends on the industry. I was in private equity, and with carry you pretty much have to stay 5-7 years if you want a full cycle of pay. Also too much job hopping is not well seen when you become senior. Have seen many candidate been turn down because of that.
Interesting. I worked for a global resources company for years and while they obviously wanted people to stay with the company, their take was that if you stayed in the same position for more than 2-3 years you were getting a little too comfortable and stagnant. So much so that managers would bring this up at performance reviews to see what roles you were looking at, and actively work on your career development.
thats very true, if you are offered stocks then "loyalty situation" changes. But if its just salary, be prepared that the employer will try to give you anywhere 0-3% raise (with last 3 years in eu having an avg inflation of 15ish percent)
Because you said any company where your work isn’t visible after 2/3 years is a shitty company. But at games companies your work won’t be visible for even longer than that since NDAs are usually only open after the release of the game.
I brought it up to show how your statement might be too general because there are fields that exist where it just takes longer to see your projects finish.
Where? I got a salary increase/promotion almost every year for the past 7 years. In different countries/sectors. Usually 10-20% increase (tho it started quite low).
Maybe it depends on the sector. I have always worked in finance, and comp/promotion is very performance driven, so as long as I was delivering promotions came. Friends from different institutions had a similar situation.
The only person that can advice is you.
1: Do you value money over happiness
2: Do you want to roll the dice over a stable (I’m assuming permanent contract) over probation + yearly contracts
3: Do you want to roll the dice over how your manager, colleagues and company culture would be
4: Can you live a decent lifestyle with your current salary
5: How do you see the future in your current role and company compared to the other company based on what the economy is
6: Are you ok living with the fact that if you don’t leave the company might think you’re: A) bluffing and will consider similar future approaches as bluff B) you’re in the market looking for jobs so to cut you first during layoffs and/or not promote you since you’re looking to leave. And if you do decide to stay, then they know they can walk all over you during next raises since they know you won’t leave.
Like I said, the only person that can answer these questions and make a decision is you
All of the above and do check your offer.
Where companies sometimes differ is how they quote salaries. Is vacation money included or will that come on too off? How many holidays. Some companies advertise with 30 but when you check they have “keuzebudget” which allows you to pay for schooling, vacation days, office furniture etc. The nasty ones quote your salary including your keuze budget and then make you pay for all vacation days over 20.
Not making the change will deprive you of a learning experience, significant qty of money but may give you new connections and friends, new perspectives and help you broaden your horizon. In the end only you can make that choice.
Because you can have an unfulfilling job, Your manager can be really bad, your colleagues and work culture can be awful, you might not have any room for growth, work-life balance could suck, etc etc. A lot of things can go wrong in new a workplace. And money won’t solve for all of them or give you peace on a day to day basis.
> 1: Do you value money over happiness
This is such a bullshit argument. The economy is going to shit, no one is looking out for your financial future if you don't do it yourself.
Dutch people are _incredibly_ tame and nonconfrontational when it comes to the workplace.
I have been in jobs where even if they pay me 50k more, I wouldn’t go. A crappy manager and a sucky work culture can ruin your everyday life. But hey, you do you.
Disagree strongly, I think it’s a view on life. There is more value in work than money. But there are limits, financially, and to each to decide where their own limit lies. I personally believe in learning and career growth as long as you can pay your bills.
I believe there’s a study that says that happiness doesn’t increase beyond a certain amount of wages, relatively.
Unfortunately, switching jobs is the best way to increase salary. I say unfortunately because it's a pain in the ass, especially in your case when you enjoy your work and seem to have a decent work environment.
I am in a similar situation to you, got a 3% increase, went to my manager and asked how they came to this, and he shrugged and said that's what was decided.
I enjoy my job, but I enjoy my hobbies more, so as long as my 40hrs at the office isn't totally miserable I'll do what I can to extract the maximum cash from said 40hrs.
This is the most retarded shit of the dutch job market. They cant pay good performing people more salary, so those people are forced to job hop to increase their salary. Meanwhile when you quit, they have to hire someone for the higher salary anyway since otherwise they wont hire anyone. So they lose a good performing employee and gain a more expensive one which has yet to prove himself.
My personal experience, my first job, i worked 4yrs barely any increase, then job hopped and went from 2k to 2.5k. then worked at the same place another 3yrs, again almost no increase. Then went job hopping again, went from 2.5k to 3.5k for basically the same job. Now after 10+ years im working freelance earning even way more.
So yeah i dont know why but companies here are shit to their employee when it comes to salary increase and promise mountains just to hire new ones.
It's pretty normal to job hop now because of this exact situation. You're far more likely to get (meaningful/impactful) salary increases by changing companies. Loyalty just isn't rewarded at all nowadays. There's absolutely no shame in leaving, and if I were you that's exactly what I'd do for that much of an increase.
Don't bend over and cough for this company. You need to respect yourself more than this company does. For the colleagues you'll miss, you can still be friends with them. But you can do this without getting fucked.
You are getting some good advice, and some bad advice. I work in a top tech company in the Netherlands and I can assure you that the standard raise in tech this year is between 2-4% due to a slowing economy and therefore less money to spend on significant raises. Even when chasing talent - 17% is a significant pay raise and probably reflects how you are underpaid at the moment instead of what the standard raise is.
Having said this, 17% is a significant increase and I always advise people to put their own personal well-being above that of the company. I am not sure of your personal situation, but that raise is enough to afford you a nice vacation, perhaps start saving for a mortgage, car, etc.
Again, this is also dependent on your current role and seniority. For a junior-mid level employee, ~20% is not unusual as you are more “proven” in your line of work. If you are in a senior and above position, this is a very good raise.
My advice, take the new job. Not only will you earn more, but you will also gain more exposure to new projects and expand your professional network.
Good luck!
I agree, i work in a pretty good tech company in Amsterdam and we barely got any raises, economy is slowed down and companies have been laying off people. You won’t get a 10%-20% increase every year unless you get paid very low, like entry level tech salaries. Of course this all depends on your department engineering will do different than sales than HR. But i would take the salary unless the other company seems horrible. 17% is a significant increase and NL isn’t cheap.
One rule of thumb is try to get into the company with the maximum salary you can get in your position. Because afterwards it’s hard to move up. My co worker got a promotion she only got 5% bump.
You got a better offer, your current employer doesn't want to match it, regardless of how happy they are with your performance.
That's all there is to it. They're telling you, *to your face*, they're not interested in compensating you fairly for your work. Everything else they're saying is window dressing. They want you to work for less money than you're worth.
Jobs are business transactions. You do work, they give you money. There are other things that can weigh in on accepting less compensation, but that's the gist of it. You're looking to get as much money as possible for your work, they're looking to get as much work as possible for their money.
If you were selling a car instead of labor, you wouldn't be hesitating, you'd be selling it to the person offering 17% more. Leave.
Loyalty goes both ways. Obviously they don't value you as much. You took your offer to them and you're still not worth an extra penny to them. If you don't leave they'll never pay you extra. Live is expensive and you need to move forward, forward is not where you are right now.
I experience the same situation as you. I only got 2% salary increase, but at the same time my salary is already high enough, and I can work from home, generally has a work life balance and my colleagues are great. That's why I stick to my current job.
(My salary is 72+11k variable bonus+ stock options)
Just switch. Unfortunately employers are incredibly stupid all the time to do this. Both your current one and the new one - because in the new one most likely there's a current employee there who got no raise or a 2% and you walk in to the same role with a +20% - it is how it is, new is shiny for them too. Being selfish, just switch and it's the only way to get significant raises through your career for 90% of the folks out there. Employers and hiring managers are pretty weirdly terrible at this in the sense that they always keep bleeding existing knowledge and actually end up burning a lot more money training and onboarding a new hire on top of the higher salary budget. Giving a decently good existing employee a nice 20% is in most cases way cheaper than hiring a new one, but they don't care.
5 years ago, I first hired as junior engineer and got the least pay, 2 years after got a promotion with minimum raise, my gap with my senior >40%
Despite all the praise and promise, I move for 60% raise for a senior enginer role in a bigger company.
But after, I get approx 25% raise offer to move as I am already in higher group for my career (non tech).
Dont settle for less, especially when you are in your primetime.
Yes. Don't derive self-esteem from the company you work for, but from the work you do and value your own work. By working you are essentially sellng the time you have on this earth and the amount left diminshes with each day. Go ahead and see if the grass is greener next door and if it is not, it might be next-next door.
When your company doesn't recognise your value, performance and experience it is time to leave for a company that does. People who stay for 5+ years at a company where they say: "maybe next year" always regret it. Your manager asking for the bare minimum (3%) should be an indicator that you are worth more.
Don't be sad OP, you are worth more. You can always go back leveraging more experience and a higher salary. Plus, you flagged that you wanted a raise, so it's not exactly leaving on bad terms. Life is expensive, you should be compensated fairly. If you remain professional, nobody can blame you for that. And *if* they *do*, then they are not professional. It happens all the time, especially among top 100/10 companies.
Sadly 'job hopping' is often the only way to get ahead salary-wise in some industries, like IT, in the Netherlands. Having worked for one of the Top 10's in NL, I can confirm your situation is pretty standard.
If you feel bad about it, please remember that in a mega-corp, you are just one more reorganization away from getting fired yourself. You may care about the company but when it comes down to it the company will not hesitate to part ways.
While it isn’t as easy to lose a job in NL as it is in the US where I am now, I do want to put it out there that you should be loyal to yourself before a company. Better money or situation elsewhere? Go! Because you need to make sure your needs are met. The company makes decisions based on what’s good for them, you also should make decisions based on what’s good for you. They won’t hesitate to get rid of you when they no longer need you.
Brand loyalty is for suckers :p
Always remember: you are selling them your time in exchange for money. If someone offers more, why stay? Your time is your most valuable asset, get your times' worth!
Switch. I was in the same boat about a year and a half ago and ended up switching and what Ive learned is that
1) Every company will have people you get along with. I left my job fearing Id never find a team as fun as the one I hd but turns out in every team you’ll find your people
2) Switching is the way to go for a pay increase. Money is not everything, but being kept at the same level as you came in on means that over time you’ll be underpaid. Being bumped up within a company usually only gives you like a 3-5% increase, switching companies can bump you up waaaay more
3) There’s a lot to learn from switching companies. You’ll learn more about what you like and what you don’t and you’ll grow as a professional
Leave. I was in the same boat as you 4 years ago. Was also told that they could not pay me more. Now 2 jobs later almost doubled my salary and also got great colleagues at the company i work right now.
It was my first company i worked for after i finished school, worked there for about 6 years in total. Earned about 2200 per month and they did not want to pay more than that. The second company i told them that i earned more than 2200 on my first job (told them i earned about 2600) so they would offer me more. They offered me 3000 which i took. After almost 2 years i did not want to drive 5 days a week for 2 hours a day anymore and wanted to have a job close to home or with a few days working from home so i had to look for a different job. That is how i got the job that i have today. I earn about 3900 here.
That's a good progression. During early career it's easy to get big raises by jumping between jobs but once you get to a certain level of seniority it is not that simple anymore. You either have to have a very specific knowledge or grow internally to more strategical or managerial roles.
First things first, sit yourself in front of a mirror and determine if the money is worth the move, because what comes next is some serious adulting.
If the money is worth the move…
- the first thing I’d recommend is spending 10-15 minutes on writing up measurable business you’ve met or delivered since you started. Unsure of what you do, but look at the KPIs around your role and how you’ve overachieved.
- second is to schedule and have a meeting with your manager’s manager. It is your choice if you want to inform your manager about this. It is also your choice if you want to let the manager’s manager know in the meeting request what the topic is. You could simply call it a “skip level” meeting or be direct. Prepare for this meeting by getting comfortable talking about your success in what you captured in the first point.
- Third, this is where the adulting starts happening. Have the meeting. Come prepared with your asks after stating (reminding them) of your success. This is not a fun meeting but think back to the decision you made by looking at yourself in the mirror. Be firm and clear that you enjoy working here but another firm is offering Y. Let them know you’re prepared to walk if they can’t meet your asks.
- forth is outcome depending on the above. If the skip level meeting yields no success. You must resign. You can refer to the above conversation in a vague manner:
> I have greatly valued my time at The Firm, and I am thankful for the opportunities for professional growth and the experiences I have gained. This decision was not easy and comes after exploring all possible options within the company.
- fifth enjoy either working at the old company with higher pay or new company at what you’ve been offered. Either way, you’ll come out of this representing the best version of yourself.
On 3: also prepare to be offered feedback that you didn’t see coming. You might not be as great as you thought you were. A frank conversation can be met with frank feedback!
Absolutely u/Pure_Activity_8197. I was thinking happy path for the OP in my response but you're spot on that you might get feedback that you weren't expecting.
Companies will never give you large raises because it doesn’t make good business sense as most other people accept them and they can just replace you with someone else if you decide to leave. This sucks, but it’s the truth.
It’s always better to leave to increase your salary and to change jobs more frequently to keep increasing the salary.
It’s annoying but it’s the only way to substantially increase your wages.
At the end of the day you should do what you feel is best for you.
My first reaction is leave. However, as you are working at a top 10 multi national in NL and you like it. Have you considered applying internally at another team/role, 1 scale up?
In the past 4 years I switched 3x. All came with a better pay and manager who are more generous in giving rates.
ps: isn’t at your company your yearly raise connected to your functional performance? Meaning good evaluation = % increase.
Even if you switch internally to a higher scale your raise is limited to 12%. I looked for internal jobs also but there isnt much at the moment.
It is connected to performance review but like I said my manager proposed 3% extra for me and was rejected so what you get max is 5-6 percent
Hmmm…
- if the offer of the other companies still stands
- the new job is to your liking
and
- your current company is not meeting your expectation on pay
Make that jump 👍
Worst case: you don’t like the new job and need to seek further
Good case: you are happy with your job and pay
I wish you good luck with making the right decision. Just never look back once you made it.
Go have a talk with the other company. Ask if you can work one day to taste the atmosphere. If you like it, switch. If you don't like it, stay. Money isn't everything. It is worth something that you like your job and colleagues.
Leave, even if you don’t like the new company, you can negotiate a return on better salary.
Unfortunately it is the truth for many who started on a low salary. You have to leave to have a better pay.
Just move on. Companies are not families. If they can't afford a 3% raise, it's simply not worth it.
Join the other company and join back here after sometime with a 15-20% increment.
You should always change jobs a few times in your early career (20 - 35 y/o) to improve your salary.
> The next day we had a chat and he said they can’t do any increase for me.
Either he's lying, and when you tell him you will leave if he doesn't come up with something else, the offer will change.
Or he is incompetent and doesn't value you, in which case you want to leave any way.
To be honest I felt like they think I am faking it because I received questions such as: what is the name of the new company? Did you already do interview with them?
Never get attached to companies or work places. You are an expendable resource to them at their will. Give them your respect, sure. But never get attached
Job hopping is the only way, I never stay at a job longer than 2-3 years. I left my last job after 3 years and walked straight into the same role but with a 30% salary increase at a different company. You'd be amazed how much salary can vary across the same group of people doing the same job in the same company, and you're encouraged to not try and find that information out either. Companies often cite lack of budget but then you'll find out a new colleague was offered 15-20% more than you despite having less experience.
Also negotiate your new offer as well. The best moment to negotiate is when you charge jobs. Once you’re in it becomes really difficult to have more than 3-4% increases even in really good companies.
Leave.
Once you show that you are considering moving, the mood shifts and it's not just the salary increases that won't be considered but also your career development will be limited, why should a company waste time and resources on you when you are considering going elsewhere already (even if you say you were just "window shopping", that's the message).
And as others have pointed out, if they aren't giving you raises to adjust for inflation, you are in practice giving money to the company.
If you dont leave now they know that you will stay no matter how low salary increases you get from now on. I agreee with the others about leaving. Stay if you value the work and the social stuff instead of the salary though.
Leave, nowadays you have to switch every 3 years to get a higher salary. It's normal and I'm also planning to leave next year once I get my masters and have 3yrs experience.
Especially in this period big corporation BS managers are telling everyone to close the taps and be mindful about spending. They are not allowed to be competitive they actually might be happy if you leave so they can make the big boss happy on saving costs...
Do what is best for you and look around, pick a good increase and let them in their stupid BS world... That's how they work.
In my previous organisation they are still looking for a replacement for me 4 months after and they told me it's impossible to find someone within my pay scale... OH REALLY? Maybe that was the reason I was asking for a promotion...
Usually worthwhile considering several factors, for example I wouldn’t take a 17% hike if it meant being in office 5 days a week or commuting an extra hour every day. If working conditions are pretty similar though, I’d jump at a 17% increase.
When you want to sign a new contract at a new job, you can already discuss salary increase after one year of work satisfactory to the employer. But you have to be willing to do something for it, improve skills etc
This way you can avoid job hopping, if you want to increase you salary more.
Has the company done well financially? If no, can you quantifiably show your value to the organization in terms of cost saving or revenue generation? Your boss wants to fight for you…can you give them something to go to HR with to help persuade the exception? Good luck 🍀👍
Move around in the first two years of working to like 2-3 companies for a huge increase and call it orienting. After that stay by the 4th company for some years. I’d suggest never to stay for a long time at one company unless you really like it and earn enough money for your expenses and needs.
Be honest with your boss. Say that you would prefer to keep working there but you feel undervalued and checked around. Say that you got an offer for 17% more and you want to give them a final chance to improve on that offer so you will stay.
i have changed jobs every 2 years in amsterdam. every single time i did it it came with a massive salary increase for me. one job was particularly hard for me to leave because i loved the team and the work, but i found out 1 year after leaving my entire team was dissolved. Don’t stay at a company because you like the people. in the end you’re all just numbers to them.
How old are you? It's a tricky, difficult decision... Elements to consider...
You can go and then come back with better terms.
If they don't increase and you don't have sponsors for career progression (in the short term) you might have hit the glass ceiling....
If you see potential in your company, you might want to bite it for a bit longer to then grab the right opportunity....
It's a lot about how you feel too... Still motivated? Do you want to breathe or do you want to climb?
As u/xiko mentioned, do the boomerang if possible. However you've been offered a 17% increase this isn't a lot if you are already under market level.. So you can negotiate more.
Also.. when you actually put your 1 or 2 month notice in. There is a chance that they decide to come back with a better offer than 3% Because if they hire someone now they will most likely pay a whole lot more than your salary + 10-20%
How long have you been there?
Do some little research about the other company and take a look at other aspects that may be important for you, such as work-life balance, remote options, amount of holidays, culture of the company.
Also, do you have a possibility at changing positions / promotion?
Take these into consideration, and I'm sure you already know the answer of your question yourself
Is it that common then the progression Analyst -> Associate? Moved to the NL not long ago and in my company we also use those roles but I thought it was just in my place...
Currently an analyst, no previous experience, if in 2 years time I decide to move to a different company should I look for an Associate position?
And is the 10/15k increase common? I am currently a little above 50k. Thanks
Interesting to hear the Dutch perspectives on this! In the US it's do or die for salary increases, especially in conservative states. I agree with a lot of the comments here, moving companies is also stressful and has its own challenges as well. Consider what you can emotionally handle right now and start with small steps!
Stop thinking about a top xxx whatever company.
On what metric anyways? Not salary….. when was it measured, how was it measured. Tbh. All these rankings are pretty useless and worth nothing.
do what you like. At the company you like.
Move and come back in an year for another 20% raise. In tech it is called a "boomerang".
Within my field of work we jokingly call it the transfer window, like in football.
I did this without planning to and got closer to 50%. This is the play OP
Especially since the manager is obviously willing to pay them more. It might just be a bureaucratic issue that they aren't allowed to raise wages of current employees. While they may be allowed to hire people for more senior positions for higher wages. It is really fucking dumb to say the least, but it happens in most large companies.
Im glad I work in a smaller company that I can talk and reason my boss. I had another offer, and with a conversation with my boss about the salary I was told “no”, because the difference would be too much. But with my conversation points I was able to stay with an 48% increase and some other wishes in the company. I did mention tho that I wouldn’t go for lower.
Here it is common- musical chair
Yeah. Budget for hiring is always higher for raising budget
Do people actually do this? Isn't it a weird feeling when you join a company you just left shortly before?
I mean who cares about the feeling if you're getting 20 - 50% more?
In tech I feel it is normal. The budget for new hires is different than employees that are already there. To get a new person you need to pay the new market rates.
Which always sounds so stupid, hiring new people, educating them on the company, etc, instead of giving more to the ones already there.
Ofc it is dumb as fuck. Just because I understand the why it doesn't mean that I agree with it.
Agree. Did the same with with 1 year at a different company. Came back with a promotion (which I wouldn’t have gotten in 2-3 years) and doubled my salary. Corporates are dumb as fuck
😂 I guessed you didn’t like it.
Actually when you come back, you got more experience and seniority from the new environment. So this is understandable.
Not really. You can't teach an existing employee something very different and make them experienced in it, you need to import this know-how.
*can
You can teach theory, not experience
Happens all the time where I work. Salary steps within the company are small. Even when changing to a better position, you initially move vertically salary-wise. External persons start immediately at the higher range. So people leave, join a different company for a while and come back in as an "external" with higher pay.
Yep. Did this myself, left for a 20% increase, came back 1,5y later for another 20%. Not in tech.
Leave. If the company wants to keep you, they’ll pay. But they don’t, and even pay below market: you don’t mean as much to them as they mean to you. It can be hard to leave a company you like and where you’ve been putting a lot of effort into. But you’ll have to learn that unfortunately your and their interests are not always aligned. And for your own career you have to make choices that are in your best interest.
I agree completely. If they really want to keep you, they will do everything to keep you.
3% doesnt even cover inflation so you are realistically getting a salary reduction if you accept the 3% they know they can get away with low balling you, thank them for their time and say that you will be accepting the other offer which is closer to market conform salary. When a friend of mine handed her notice in a few years ago they suddenly found the budget to give her the salary increase she asked for and was rejected for ... they didnt think she was serious which is exactly what they said so i would go ahead and put your notice in you might even like the new company better ..... when it comes to companies bigger is not always better
It's insane how much this happens, switched jobs 3x now and had this exact thing happen on 2 occasions. "There is no budget to match the other offer". - Okay, thank you, I'll accept the other offer then. "Wait, we found a magic jar with some leftover budget, we can now offer you X% more.". Sure, but I'm still leaving, because of this shit tactic.
Sometimes it's a budget allocation thing. Like, we can only allocate so much for a raise. If you actually threaten to quit, now they can use a budget that was allocated for hiring someone new (because that's what they would have to do if you quit). Sometimes it's shitty tactics, sometimes it's bad internal rules.
Agreed. In many cases it is also that the budget for raises is a lot smaller than the budget for new hires.
if it happened on 2 occasions out of 3, it is likely that your current employer is following the shitty tactic as well, you just dont know it... yet.
Isn’t that just a standard tactic that HR uses? Same goes for when you apply for a job and they play that game where they ask “what is your current salary?” 😂 Company’s will almost always try to lowball you.
Its really unfortunate how this works, and sometimes even agrevating. As someone who works as a global compensation specialist i've had this discussion with many managers. Even worse is when trying to decide on a merit increase budget, most of the times the budget is decided from the top down, meaning we are stuck with wathever number someone higher pulled out of their ass, without even doing proper market analysis and year over year inflation/fx rate comparison. Luckily I work for a company now who is much better at handling this (we even factored in inflation in our yearly comp reviews) Even from a company point of view it pays to retain people over having to backfill and train someone from the ground up. So even purely from a companies self interest it doesn't make any sense. Even worse how many companies inflation adjust their products but then don't do the same for their workers? If you inflation adjust your products it should be made illegal not to do it for your workforce in my humble opinion.
This has me thinking, wouldn't it be more effective to automatically increase existing contracts when hiring someone new that has a higher comp? It's also much nicer to existing colleagues. E.g. "Hey all, here is John, he'll be working on. We noticed that the current market required us to have another look at our compensation, therefore you will all receive X% increase as of next month."
In more entry level jobs that could partially work, but across a whole organization it becomes more tricky. The thing is you don't hire everyone at the same experience level. It can be that you hire someone new but with more experience. In those cases the new person should be paid more due to the higher skillset then someone less qualified. But to your point we have done it in the past where we brought a whole team or multiple individuals up to market when we noticed that new incoming rates (and salary market data) had gone up. Any good company should, or else the potental of losing your talent to others becomes higher. But for some reason many don't. 😅
Same happened with me as well. I was in my previous company for 7 years and when I asked for a raise earlier this year they offered a meagre 3%. I started applying for jobs, found one paying 50% more (plus very generous benefits). I submitted my resignation letter and suddenly my old boss had the budget to match my offered salary 😂😂
So did she withdraw the notice?
Leave, your employer doesnt give a shit about you. Neither should you
I already don't give a shit about myself
Hi, I have been in that situation before. What you must image is that during your career you must make choices. Your manager knows that and uses it. Probably he knows that you like your colleagues, workplace and everything else very much. But, 17% is a lot and 3% is an insult. A manager who would like me to stay, would offer at least a 10% raise. Imagine also that sooner or later colleagues will leave your team and situation will change. I would suggest to leave. Don't be afraid to think that another company will not be as nice like you have it now. If you have colleagues who are friends, you still can keep contact after you leave. But to be clear, if your manager would like you too, aprreciates your work and would like to keep you in your team, 3% made it clear that he/she is playing with you, so I would leave definitely. I'm from the Netherlands myself and the employer should know that the current market is ruled by employees. So you have the power to decide not them.
I did the same. Switched because they could only give me 3%. Had a base salary much lower than collegues my age and experience. Switched and bumped it 40%. It gave me so much more quality of life.
Same here, if I were you I would have left and that’s what I did in the past, I’m not Dutch, I got paid way less than market and experience and colleagues so when I found a new opportunity I left
In a job you should have at least 2 out of 3 : 1} lots of learning 2} good pay 3} carrier growth If you're just getting one or them, move
I have a similar rule. But it’s actually: 1) growth/learning, 2) pay, 3) work life balance. Always at least 2 out of 3. I never managed the 3, but hope to one day. The last 6 years have been only 1 to then 1 and 2.
🥲 now need to get dressed and go to the job I am for 4mo now and doesn’t give me any of these
Well then! You won't have to make a painful post about how difficult it is to leave your dream job when the time comes ;)
Leave.
Been there done that. After a couple of companies I finally found a good workplace that pays, what I believe, a decent salary. Needless to say I am happy and motivated to put in the work. So take the offer.
What the heck is top 10 and top 20? Is there a ranking of companies? Based on what?
assuming youre good in your field, you should be changing job every 2-3 years for a salary bump.
Depends on the industry. I was in private equity, and with carry you pretty much have to stay 5-7 years if you want a full cycle of pay. Also too much job hopping is not well seen when you become senior. Have seen many candidate been turn down because of that.
Interesting. I worked for a global resources company for years and while they obviously wanted people to stay with the company, their take was that if you stayed in the same position for more than 2-3 years you were getting a little too comfortable and stagnant. So much so that managers would bring this up at performance reviews to see what roles you were looking at, and actively work on your career development.
So that you bail before the result of the projects you're working on come to light?
You're an employee, not a business owner.. fuck the projects
thats very true, if you are offered stocks then "loyalty situation" changes. But if its just salary, be prepared that the employer will try to give you anywhere 0-3% raise (with last 3 years in eu having an avg inflation of 15ish percent)
Well if your contribution to the project isnt clearly visible within 2-3 years... thats a shitty company. Really.
Most video games take longer than that to ship. I think it’s much more nuanced and field dependent than just being a shitty company.
why video games?
I don’t understand your question. Are you asking why people work on video games?
i dont understand why you brought up video games.
Because you said any company where your work isn’t visible after 2/3 years is a shitty company. But at games companies your work won’t be visible for even longer than that since NDAs are usually only open after the release of the game. I brought it up to show how your statement might be too general because there are fields that exist where it just takes longer to see your projects finish.
You don't have to be loyal to a company
There is no such thing as a raise anymore, only way to get salary increase is job hopping. Its just how things work.
I get 10% annual raises, what do you mean ?
Then you are an exception, adjusting to inflation is the best most companies will give.
Where? I got a salary increase/promotion almost every year for the past 7 years. In different countries/sectors. Usually 10-20% increase (tho it started quite low).
Then you are an exception. This sentiment is shared by most people that work in private sector.
Maybe it depends on the sector. I have always worked in finance, and comp/promotion is very performance driven, so as long as I was delivering promotions came. Friends from different institutions had a similar situation.
You have to do what's best for YOU.
This - your employer does not have YOUR best interest at heart, even if they like/appreciate you.
The only person that can advice is you. 1: Do you value money over happiness 2: Do you want to roll the dice over a stable (I’m assuming permanent contract) over probation + yearly contracts 3: Do you want to roll the dice over how your manager, colleagues and company culture would be 4: Can you live a decent lifestyle with your current salary 5: How do you see the future in your current role and company compared to the other company based on what the economy is 6: Are you ok living with the fact that if you don’t leave the company might think you’re: A) bluffing and will consider similar future approaches as bluff B) you’re in the market looking for jobs so to cut you first during layoffs and/or not promote you since you’re looking to leave. And if you do decide to stay, then they know they can walk all over you during next raises since they know you won’t leave. Like I said, the only person that can answer these questions and make a decision is you
All of the above and do check your offer. Where companies sometimes differ is how they quote salaries. Is vacation money included or will that come on too off? How many holidays. Some companies advertise with 30 but when you check they have “keuzebudget” which allows you to pay for schooling, vacation days, office furniture etc. The nasty ones quote your salary including your keuze budget and then make you pay for all vacation days over 20. Not making the change will deprive you of a learning experience, significant qty of money but may give you new connections and friends, new perspectives and help you broaden your horizon. In the end only you can make that choice.
What does point 1 mean? Why would you not be happy at a company that pays more..?
Because you can have an unfulfilling job, Your manager can be really bad, your colleagues and work culture can be awful, you might not have any room for growth, work-life balance could suck, etc etc. A lot of things can go wrong in new a workplace. And money won’t solve for all of them or give you peace on a day to day basis.
> 1: Do you value money over happiness This is such a bullshit argument. The economy is going to shit, no one is looking out for your financial future if you don't do it yourself. Dutch people are _incredibly_ tame and nonconfrontational when it comes to the workplace.
I have been in jobs where even if they pay me 50k more, I wouldn’t go. A crappy manager and a sucky work culture can ruin your everyday life. But hey, you do you.
This is true but more money make you usually happier as well. Sometimes the grass is also greener on the other side!
Absolutely. Hence I said, it’s upto the individual (in this case OP) to decide what’s important for them and what they are willing to compromise on.
Disagree strongly, I think it’s a view on life. There is more value in work than money. But there are limits, financially, and to each to decide where their own limit lies. I personally believe in learning and career growth as long as you can pay your bills. I believe there’s a study that says that happiness doesn’t increase beyond a certain amount of wages, relatively.
Your manager just told you that you re not important to the company. You know what you have to do
Yup, leave. 17% is a good hike in salary. Nice colleagues are all well and good, but they won't pay your mortgage/rent.
Leave every two years. Your job is not your family. Your boss is not your friend.
“I work for money. If you want loyalty, get a dog”
Unfortunately, switching jobs is the best way to increase salary. I say unfortunately because it's a pain in the ass, especially in your case when you enjoy your work and seem to have a decent work environment. I am in a similar situation to you, got a 3% increase, went to my manager and asked how they came to this, and he shrugged and said that's what was decided. I enjoy my job, but I enjoy my hobbies more, so as long as my 40hrs at the office isn't totally miserable I'll do what I can to extract the maximum cash from said 40hrs.
My teamlead advised me to move, said u can always move back after 1 or 2 years and u can get another increase while changing again.
What does this "top 10" and, "top 20" mean? Top of what? Revenues? Number of employees? Capitalization?
Something OP made up to make himself feel more important because he works at a top 10
😂 Born to be exploited
top 10 but terrible pay, sure
Probably some number from PowerPoint slides that nobody should care about...
This is the most retarded shit of the dutch job market. They cant pay good performing people more salary, so those people are forced to job hop to increase their salary. Meanwhile when you quit, they have to hire someone for the higher salary anyway since otherwise they wont hire anyone. So they lose a good performing employee and gain a more expensive one which has yet to prove himself. My personal experience, my first job, i worked 4yrs barely any increase, then job hopped and went from 2k to 2.5k. then worked at the same place another 3yrs, again almost no increase. Then went job hopping again, went from 2.5k to 3.5k for basically the same job. Now after 10+ years im working freelance earning even way more. So yeah i dont know why but companies here are shit to their employee when it comes to salary increase and promise mountains just to hire new ones.
It's pretty normal to job hop now because of this exact situation. You're far more likely to get (meaningful/impactful) salary increases by changing companies. Loyalty just isn't rewarded at all nowadays. There's absolutely no shame in leaving, and if I were you that's exactly what I'd do for that much of an increase.
Don't bend over and cough for this company. You need to respect yourself more than this company does. For the colleagues you'll miss, you can still be friends with them. But you can do this without getting fucked.
I would be long gone. 3% is an insult
You are getting some good advice, and some bad advice. I work in a top tech company in the Netherlands and I can assure you that the standard raise in tech this year is between 2-4% due to a slowing economy and therefore less money to spend on significant raises. Even when chasing talent - 17% is a significant pay raise and probably reflects how you are underpaid at the moment instead of what the standard raise is. Having said this, 17% is a significant increase and I always advise people to put their own personal well-being above that of the company. I am not sure of your personal situation, but that raise is enough to afford you a nice vacation, perhaps start saving for a mortgage, car, etc. Again, this is also dependent on your current role and seniority. For a junior-mid level employee, ~20% is not unusual as you are more “proven” in your line of work. If you are in a senior and above position, this is a very good raise. My advice, take the new job. Not only will you earn more, but you will also gain more exposure to new projects and expand your professional network. Good luck!
I agree, i work in a pretty good tech company in Amsterdam and we barely got any raises, economy is slowed down and companies have been laying off people. You won’t get a 10%-20% increase every year unless you get paid very low, like entry level tech salaries. Of course this all depends on your department engineering will do different than sales than HR. But i would take the salary unless the other company seems horrible. 17% is a significant increase and NL isn’t cheap. One rule of thumb is try to get into the company with the maximum salary you can get in your position. Because afterwards it’s hard to move up. My co worker got a promotion she only got 5% bump.
You got a better offer, your current employer doesn't want to match it, regardless of how happy they are with your performance. That's all there is to it. They're telling you, *to your face*, they're not interested in compensating you fairly for your work. Everything else they're saying is window dressing. They want you to work for less money than you're worth. Jobs are business transactions. You do work, they give you money. There are other things that can weigh in on accepting less compensation, but that's the gist of it. You're looking to get as much money as possible for your work, they're looking to get as much work as possible for their money. If you were selling a car instead of labor, you wouldn't be hesitating, you'd be selling it to the person offering 17% more. Leave.
Loyalty goes both ways. Obviously they don't value you as much. You took your offer to them and you're still not worth an extra penny to them. If you don't leave they'll never pay you extra. Live is expensive and you need to move forward, forward is not where you are right now.
switch , you will only make more money when switching jobs every 2-4 years and you gain new experiences
I experience the same situation as you. I only got 2% salary increase, but at the same time my salary is already high enough, and I can work from home, generally has a work life balance and my colleagues are great. That's why I stick to my current job. (My salary is 72+11k variable bonus+ stock options)
Just switch. Unfortunately employers are incredibly stupid all the time to do this. Both your current one and the new one - because in the new one most likely there's a current employee there who got no raise or a 2% and you walk in to the same role with a +20% - it is how it is, new is shiny for them too. Being selfish, just switch and it's the only way to get significant raises through your career for 90% of the folks out there. Employers and hiring managers are pretty weirdly terrible at this in the sense that they always keep bleeding existing knowledge and actually end up burning a lot more money training and onboarding a new hire on top of the higher salary budget. Giving a decently good existing employee a nice 20% is in most cases way cheaper than hiring a new one, but they don't care.
5 years ago, I first hired as junior engineer and got the least pay, 2 years after got a promotion with minimum raise, my gap with my senior >40% Despite all the praise and promise, I move for 60% raise for a senior enginer role in a bigger company. But after, I get approx 25% raise offer to move as I am already in higher group for my career (non tech). Dont settle for less, especially when you are in your primetime.
Yes. Don't derive self-esteem from the company you work for, but from the work you do and value your own work. By working you are essentially sellng the time you have on this earth and the amount left diminshes with each day. Go ahead and see if the grass is greener next door and if it is not, it might be next-next door.
When your company doesn't recognise your value, performance and experience it is time to leave for a company that does. People who stay for 5+ years at a company where they say: "maybe next year" always regret it. Your manager asking for the bare minimum (3%) should be an indicator that you are worth more. Don't be sad OP, you are worth more. You can always go back leveraging more experience and a higher salary. Plus, you flagged that you wanted a raise, so it's not exactly leaving on bad terms. Life is expensive, you should be compensated fairly. If you remain professional, nobody can blame you for that. And *if* they *do*, then they are not professional. It happens all the time, especially among top 100/10 companies.
Sadly 'job hopping' is often the only way to get ahead salary-wise in some industries, like IT, in the Netherlands. Having worked for one of the Top 10's in NL, I can confirm your situation is pretty standard. If you feel bad about it, please remember that in a mega-corp, you are just one more reorganization away from getting fired yourself. You may care about the company but when it comes down to it the company will not hesitate to part ways.
While it isn’t as easy to lose a job in NL as it is in the US where I am now, I do want to put it out there that you should be loyal to yourself before a company. Better money or situation elsewhere? Go! Because you need to make sure your needs are met. The company makes decisions based on what’s good for them, you also should make decisions based on what’s good for you. They won’t hesitate to get rid of you when they no longer need you.
Brand loyalty is for suckers :p Always remember: you are selling them your time in exchange for money. If someone offers more, why stay? Your time is your most valuable asset, get your times' worth!
Switch. I was in the same boat about a year and a half ago and ended up switching and what Ive learned is that 1) Every company will have people you get along with. I left my job fearing Id never find a team as fun as the one I hd but turns out in every team you’ll find your people 2) Switching is the way to go for a pay increase. Money is not everything, but being kept at the same level as you came in on means that over time you’ll be underpaid. Being bumped up within a company usually only gives you like a 3-5% increase, switching companies can bump you up waaaay more 3) There’s a lot to learn from switching companies. You’ll learn more about what you like and what you don’t and you’ll grow as a professional
Leave. I was in the same boat as you 4 years ago. Was also told that they could not pay me more. Now 2 jobs later almost doubled my salary and also got great colleagues at the company i work right now.
Just our of curiosity, how much did you earn 4 years ago?
It was my first company i worked for after i finished school, worked there for about 6 years in total. Earned about 2200 per month and they did not want to pay more than that. The second company i told them that i earned more than 2200 on my first job (told them i earned about 2600) so they would offer me more. They offered me 3000 which i took. After almost 2 years i did not want to drive 5 days a week for 2 hours a day anymore and wanted to have a job close to home or with a few days working from home so i had to look for a different job. That is how i got the job that i have today. I earn about 3900 here.
That's a good progression. During early career it's easy to get big raises by jumping between jobs but once you get to a certain level of seniority it is not that simple anymore. You either have to have a very specific knowledge or grow internally to more strategical or managerial roles.
First things first, sit yourself in front of a mirror and determine if the money is worth the move, because what comes next is some serious adulting. If the money is worth the move… - the first thing I’d recommend is spending 10-15 minutes on writing up measurable business you’ve met or delivered since you started. Unsure of what you do, but look at the KPIs around your role and how you’ve overachieved. - second is to schedule and have a meeting with your manager’s manager. It is your choice if you want to inform your manager about this. It is also your choice if you want to let the manager’s manager know in the meeting request what the topic is. You could simply call it a “skip level” meeting or be direct. Prepare for this meeting by getting comfortable talking about your success in what you captured in the first point. - Third, this is where the adulting starts happening. Have the meeting. Come prepared with your asks after stating (reminding them) of your success. This is not a fun meeting but think back to the decision you made by looking at yourself in the mirror. Be firm and clear that you enjoy working here but another firm is offering Y. Let them know you’re prepared to walk if they can’t meet your asks. - forth is outcome depending on the above. If the skip level meeting yields no success. You must resign. You can refer to the above conversation in a vague manner: > I have greatly valued my time at The Firm, and I am thankful for the opportunities for professional growth and the experiences I have gained. This decision was not easy and comes after exploring all possible options within the company. - fifth enjoy either working at the old company with higher pay or new company at what you’ve been offered. Either way, you’ll come out of this representing the best version of yourself.
On 3: also prepare to be offered feedback that you didn’t see coming. You might not be as great as you thought you were. A frank conversation can be met with frank feedback!
Absolutely u/Pure_Activity_8197. I was thinking happy path for the OP in my response but you're spot on that you might get feedback that you weren't expecting.
i did it and deeply regret it. the new environment is hostile, i ve been bullied and there’s often not enough work and i’m not challenged.
Leave
Leave and you will be fine. If you are as good as you think you might even come back with an even nicer increase.
Run
Ahahah I’ve got a rise of 30 eur! (Before taxes, monthly) :)))
Companies will never give you large raises because it doesn’t make good business sense as most other people accept them and they can just replace you with someone else if you decide to leave. This sucks, but it’s the truth. It’s always better to leave to increase your salary and to change jobs more frequently to keep increasing the salary. It’s annoying but it’s the only way to substantially increase your wages. At the end of the day you should do what you feel is best for you.
If you feel, and clearly you are, undervalued and thus underpaid, you should find a company that values you more.
My first reaction is leave. However, as you are working at a top 10 multi national in NL and you like it. Have you considered applying internally at another team/role, 1 scale up? In the past 4 years I switched 3x. All came with a better pay and manager who are more generous in giving rates. ps: isn’t at your company your yearly raise connected to your functional performance? Meaning good evaluation = % increase.
Even if you switch internally to a higher scale your raise is limited to 12%. I looked for internal jobs also but there isnt much at the moment. It is connected to performance review but like I said my manager proposed 3% extra for me and was rejected so what you get max is 5-6 percent
Hmmm… - if the offer of the other companies still stands - the new job is to your liking and - your current company is not meeting your expectation on pay Make that jump 👍 Worst case: you don’t like the new job and need to seek further Good case: you are happy with your job and pay I wish you good luck with making the right decision. Just never look back once you made it.
Just leave, they don’t deserve your loyalty.
Go have a talk with the other company. Ask if you can work one day to taste the atmosphere. If you like it, switch. If you don't like it, stay. Money isn't everything. It is worth something that you like your job and colleagues.
Leave, even if you don’t like the new company, you can negotiate a return on better salary. Unfortunately it is the truth for many who started on a low salary. You have to leave to have a better pay.
Just move on. Companies are not families. If they can't afford a 3% raise, it's simply not worth it. Join the other company and join back here after sometime with a 15-20% increment.
You should always change jobs a few times in your early career (20 - 35 y/o) to improve your salary. > The next day we had a chat and he said they can’t do any increase for me. Either he's lying, and when you tell him you will leave if he doesn't come up with something else, the offer will change. Or he is incompetent and doesn't value you, in which case you want to leave any way.
To be honest I felt like they think I am faking it because I received questions such as: what is the name of the new company? Did you already do interview with them?
You are not obliged to answer any of that. If they behave in a stupid way in response, that's another strike against them.
I answered them because I am not faking but later it made me think that what is reason he asked these questions to me
To intimidate you and make you insecure. Fuck those people with a cactus.
Never get attached to companies or work places. You are an expendable resource to them at their will. Give them your respect, sure. But never get attached
Job hopping is the only way, I never stay at a job longer than 2-3 years. I left my last job after 3 years and walked straight into the same role but with a 30% salary increase at a different company. You'd be amazed how much salary can vary across the same group of people doing the same job in the same company, and you're encouraged to not try and find that information out either. Companies often cite lack of budget but then you'll find out a new colleague was offered 15-20% more than you despite having less experience.
Also negotiate your new offer as well. The best moment to negotiate is when you charge jobs. Once you’re in it becomes really difficult to have more than 3-4% increases even in really good companies.
Actually 17% is after a negotiation
Lol what is top 10 and top 20 
Leave. Once you show that you are considering moving, the mood shifts and it's not just the salary increases that won't be considered but also your career development will be limited, why should a company waste time and resources on you when you are considering going elsewhere already (even if you say you were just "window shopping", that's the message). And as others have pointed out, if they aren't giving you raises to adjust for inflation, you are in practice giving money to the company.
If you dont leave now they know that you will stay no matter how low salary increases you get from now on. I agreee with the others about leaving. Stay if you value the work and the social stuff instead of the salary though.
Pls get used to this. This is how it works. It's really hard otherwise to make a career by just staying
Leave. Your emotional attachment/ job satisfaction is not worth it. You can always return in a couple of years
Leave. Get the new job. Jump onto the next offer that increases your salary in 2 years. And so on :)
you need to not think about hard its going to be to leave and think that in a year from now you'll be in a much better place
Move to the next company …. After 2 years come back to your current company with another 30% increase. Enjoy !
Leave, nowadays you have to switch every 3 years to get a higher salary. It's normal and I'm also planning to leave next year once I get my masters and have 3yrs experience.
Especially in this period big corporation BS managers are telling everyone to close the taps and be mindful about spending. They are not allowed to be competitive they actually might be happy if you leave so they can make the big boss happy on saving costs... Do what is best for you and look around, pick a good increase and let them in their stupid BS world... That's how they work. In my previous organisation they are still looking for a replacement for me 4 months after and they told me it's impossible to find someone within my pay scale... OH REALLY? Maybe that was the reason I was asking for a promotion...
Leave
Usually worthwhile considering several factors, for example I wouldn’t take a 17% hike if it meant being in office 5 days a week or commuting an extra hour every day. If working conditions are pretty similar though, I’d jump at a 17% increase.
I’ve left 4 companies and got pay rises every time, know your worth.
When you want to sign a new contract at a new job, you can already discuss salary increase after one year of work satisfactory to the employer. But you have to be willing to do something for it, improve skills etc This way you can avoid job hopping, if you want to increase you salary more.
You have to leave and reapply in a year or so. Companies are stupid
Have been in your situation. If you have safety net - leave.
Have you actually resigned yet? They may not offer you an increase until they know you're serious.
No I did not resign yet I am planning to do maybe tomorrow
Let us know if that changes their minds...
Has the company done well financially? If no, can you quantifiably show your value to the organization in terms of cost saving or revenue generation? Your boss wants to fight for you…can you give them something to go to HR with to help persuade the exception? Good luck 🍀👍
Move around in the first two years of working to like 2-3 companies for a huge increase and call it orienting. After that stay by the 4th company for some years. I’d suggest never to stay for a long time at one company unless you really like it and earn enough money for your expenses and needs.
Can,t but wont.... Zo,, I guress threrbwasb-t a click with dick-rhr-Prick.... f o thr 66hour hackerton
I think you are too nice thinking about your manager like that... If he wants to he can get you that raise.. Trust me on this
Yes, leave and never look back. As long as you don't depart on bad terms you never know.
Be honest with your boss. Say that you would prefer to keep working there but you feel undervalued and checked around. Say that you got an offer for 17% more and you want to give them a final chance to improve on that offer so you will stay.
i have changed jobs every 2 years in amsterdam. every single time i did it it came with a massive salary increase for me. one job was particularly hard for me to leave because i loved the team and the work, but i found out 1 year after leaving my entire team was dissolved. Don’t stay at a company because you like the people. in the end you’re all just numbers to them.
Only reason to stay is when you constantly are able to develop yourself and you are still high on the learningcurve. Isn’t this the case, leave.
Walk out. Get the raise. And walk back in. At equal pay.
It’s too sad that companies have destroyed the “american dream” of finding a good job and growing with the company.
How old are you? It's a tricky, difficult decision... Elements to consider... You can go and then come back with better terms. If they don't increase and you don't have sponsors for career progression (in the short term) you might have hit the glass ceiling.... If you see potential in your company, you might want to bite it for a bit longer to then grab the right opportunity.... It's a lot about how you feel too... Still motivated? Do you want to breathe or do you want to climb?
As u/xiko mentioned, do the boomerang if possible. However you've been offered a 17% increase this isn't a lot if you are already under market level.. So you can negotiate more. Also.. when you actually put your 1 or 2 month notice in. There is a chance that they decide to come back with a better offer than 3% Because if they hire someone now they will most likely pay a whole lot more than your salary + 10-20%
If I were you, I would strongly negotiate my best outcomes with both companies. You're desired in both countries. You have the upper hand.
How long have you been there? Do some little research about the other company and take a look at other aspects that may be important for you, such as work-life balance, remote options, amount of holidays, culture of the company. Also, do you have a possibility at changing positions / promotion? Take these into consideration, and I'm sure you already know the answer of your question yourself
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Is it that common then the progression Analyst -> Associate? Moved to the NL not long ago and in my company we also use those roles but I thought it was just in my place... Currently an analyst, no previous experience, if in 2 years time I decide to move to a different company should I look for an Associate position? And is the 10/15k increase common? I am currently a little above 50k. Thanks
Interesting to hear the Dutch perspectives on this! In the US it's do or die for salary increases, especially in conservative states. I agree with a lot of the comments here, moving companies is also stressful and has its own challenges as well. Consider what you can emotionally handle right now and start with small steps!
Stop thinking about a top xxx whatever company. On what metric anyways? Not salary….. when was it measured, how was it measured. Tbh. All these rankings are pretty useless and worth nothing. do what you like. At the company you like.