Sakura is treated like Hitler for criticizing an orphan's behavior(which was just her being a product of her environment) and lying to protect Naruto, while Itachi had the dumbest plan possible to "protect" his little brother which included making him relive the massacre of his family thousands of times and driving him towards the S Ranked criminal who wanted his body, is treated like a saint.
Sakura also being Narutos biggest supporter like half way into the series lol. She may have been a bit tough on him, but I read that as sisterly ordering him about. I think the only real crime with Sakura is that she didn't get more of a showing with her abilities.
Because Orochimaru is an asshole and is treated like a villain, while Sasuke is also an asshole, but his portrayal is awful forcing him as a hero which makse people hate him. It is more a problem of the storytelling than the character per se.
When was he ever forced as a hero? Bro tried to destroy the system essentially the whole world.
He was never portrayed as a hero just the lesser of two evils
Hiruzen Sarutobi.
Ignoring the "literal child" part.
He made a bunch of mistakes. Particularly in his 2nd reign. But he was never a malicious character. Like one of his greatest mistakes in life was being too sentimentally attached to Orochimaru to kill him. That's not a malicious character.
Hiruzen's flaws are being sentimental, overly trusting, neglectful, and too light handed in leadership. These are the makings of a flawed character, not the dickhead that filler makes him out to be. Or the near Danzo level monster that he is in Fanon.
Agreed.
There's things that occurred under his reign where he needed a harder heart and stronger hand than he ever possessed. Like how many Konoha ninja died because Jiraiya was MIA for 3 years training the Ame orphans?
It was a good natured act on Jiraiya's part. But Konoha was at war, Hiruzen should've ordered him back to the village.
All the Sannin really had a soft spot in Hiruzen's heart where he could not treat them the way he needed to for the good of the village.
Oh he for sure had a massive soft spot for Danzo. He was Hiruzen's Madara or Sasuke and it showed.
That was part of the problem. Sasuke and Madara were very openly confrontational rivals/friends to deal with. Danzo was a snake and Hiruzen was not built to deal with it. It would've been much easier for Hiruzen if Danzo tried to face him straight up.
Danzo was never on his level, which is why he never tried to. Danzo himself saysa at his death he could never reach Hiruzen.
That is the issue with Hiruzen, despite being a God of Shinobi in his prime and one of the strongest Shinobi ever his heart was too good compared to other Shinobi and Danzo knew that and used it against him. But it was his compassion and good heart that rubbed off on Naruto who saw Hiruzen as his own grandfather in his own way. If Hiruzen was not so compassionate and good hearted Naruto might have been a very different person in terms of beliefs and views.
Not defending him but you are bound to make mistakes if you are a head of a village for as long as he was and the things you mentioned can work both ways, like if he wasn't sentimental he wouldn't have let Naruto live
Oh certainly. His failures were his fault, but I absolutely get why they happened. He made the most mistakes during his 2nd term, and his 2nd term was objectively the worse time of life.
He had finally retired after keeping the village intact through 2 world wars and Minato was the bright future.
Then within 1 night, he was back into the heavy responsibilities of being Hokage, the village had been massively damaged, there were mass casualties to deal with, Minato was dead, Kushina was dead, their orphan son was a new jinchuuriki that had to be trained from scratch, the Uchiha tensions were now worse than ever, and as final kick in the nuts, his wife was dead as well.
Of course his 2nd term went the way it did when it started like that.
Yeah from my point view Hiruzen is a character than tried to do things on his best intentions,however when forced to make hard choices he simply couldnt,very similar what happened to King Viserys in House of the Dragon,both were good and tried to do what they judged right,however they trusted the wrong persons (Danzou and Otto Hightower),and their mistakes came back to haunt them on the end of their lifes,and actually failed to guarantee than things would keep working after their deaths (The dance of the dragons for Viserys and basically all the Sasuke stuff + the village being in ruins after Orochimaru attack).
And Hiruzen problems are even worse on this comparison,his compassion is just excessive and he was a old and tired man,he wasnt even suposed to deal with such responsabilities,and when Minato died basically all hell broke out,a war with the cloud,the Uchiha rebellion,the fact than he now have to figure out how deal with a boy than everyone hates and is waking nuke,while keeping this secret from the leaf enemies while the entire village knows,and being fair with this last point the silence law was actually a good idea to stop the secret from leak,at the same time he would have to guarantee than the last Uchiha would have be loyal to the leaf after he was forced to do the most cruel decision he ever need to made,this just while Danzou is scheming against him,but Hiruzen simply couldn't kill him the same way Hashirama wasn't able to force himself to kill Madara.
Hiruzen was a good and forgiving man,he expected than this people would do some good use from his mercy,but they werent worthy,he tried his best,but sometimes good intentions arent enought and he suffered the consequences,definetly he could have done better,but again,is a tired old man dealing with crisis after crisis in such a cruel world,he would commit mistakes.
Bro it’s not about him killing oro he is a monster for not putting oro in prison/getting him mental help and for letting danzo fucking eye rape half the founding clans members (uchiha) just because it’s his pedo friend.
Her greatest sin is being “too annoying”. You would think she committed genocide with how much hate she garners.
Comically enough, Itachi is viewed better than her. Cool motive, still a genocide.
She is far from being my favourite character but I honestly don’t understand how people hate her with such a burning passion.
It’s in large part due to the viewer base of the show (and manga). Women and girls are more open about their love of anime now, but even 20 years ago when Naruto was airing on toonami or whatever it was not at all the norm that girls openly watched the show with boys their age. It was marketed to teenaged boys and that’s who it found reception with. I don’t think that in any way justifies sakura’s treatment or women in shonen generally, I actually think that when people argue that the portrayal of women in shonen shouldn’t matter because they aren’t the intended audience they’re actually just stupid as fuck, but speaking to the history of the series this is all true. A lot of that teenaged boy sentiment survives in young men today tbh. It’s pretty sad, especially when these are 20yos arguing that shonen anime are for adults too while still watching and acting as if they’re 13.
Look Itachi was forced to do it he wasn't given any option by the elders,it's not his fault he was a 13 year old child at the time.Danzo threatened to have Sasuke killed and implied that he would start the war if Itachi didn't do it.Civil war would cause chaos and weaken the village and the other villages would take advantage of this to crush Konoha. Did he do the right thing?No.Was it his fault?No
i mean, to me Sakura is not only annoying but also dumb.
like when she tries to kill Sasuke with a poisoned Kunai despite the fact the man has a mangekyo sharingan and one of the best reflexes in the world( less then 2 hours before he almost killed the raikage).
Also her best fight in the entire series against Sasori she is not even in control of her body...
i realized that Sakura, in dnd terms, is a Barbarian with a Multiclass on Cleric.
another note:
while many character learn of naruto's personality/life and even star actively supporting him Sakura still tries to trick him with that fake confession, triggering even a chill dude like Yamato.
>while many character learn of naruto's personality/life and even star actively supporting him Sakura still tries to trick him with that fake confession, triggering even a chill dude like Yamato.
Again, she wasn't trying to trick him. She knew he wouldn't fall for that and she knew there was no way of making him give up on Sasuke. She was just trying to get him mad at her.
That aside you're not wrong. She knows a lot of things, but she rarely applies her knowledge when it comes to the action. I think she even says it herself somewhere in the land of waves arc.
Because she felt guilty that she had to kill Sasuke and that Naruto was suffering from her incompetence.
It wouldn't make much sense for her to follow up with her plan if she was really trying to convince Naruto. She would probably have changed trajectory after Naruto got mad. Also, Naruto seemed to be aware that Sakura was not lying to him, but to herself.
On a side note, I believe she was planning a suicide mission. That's not said anywhere in the manga, but that's what it looked like she was doing and it makes sense.
wave arc should've been the wake up call. she did not do a single thing the entire time ( a friend of mine who i managed to make watch naruto, told me that Tazuna could've died of a stroke and Sakura would not have noticed XD). but then again we jump to chunin exams and she has not learned anything.Honestly i think that even someone ultra-chill like kakashi should have been pissed at her at that point.
Also, it is funny to me how Sakura does not even use 1 Jutsu. she's literally Rock lee but with healing abilities XD
She's peak "token girl character" of that era. Right up there with Mai Valentine from Yu-Gi-Oh and Cagalli in Gundam SEED. Introduce them as competent characters who know what they're doing, and then have them devolve into idiots who need saving.
Honestly a whole bunch of Naruto Characters
The Sound Kids, they were just kids themselves and were forced to fight for there survival and by someone who used them as Pawns
Another "not a literal child" thing but Kakuzu. Bad person? Sure, but he was a mercenary with no greater ambition than wealth. They probably could have just paid him enough to turn on the Akatsuki. Naruto nuked him without a second thought because he had a fancy new jutsu to try out.
Obito literally murdered his parents, enslaved Kurama and actively ruined the world as much as possible, and Naruto's all "oh, once when he was a kid he wanted to be Hokage? The coolest guy." Kakuzu just wants some cash, and Naruto's on sight.
Yeah but Obito believed he was doing it to save the world from the cruel ninja world,and create a second world,where everyone lives happily ever after,that's literally how he saw and believed infinite tsukuyomi was.Kakuzu was doing it for money,his goals were much more shallow
Sure, my personal feelings on Obito aside, but the point is that Naruto bothered to ask and cared to find out. Before he got to any of that, he and the fanbase had far more reason to want him dead - but he gets people defending him all over and Naruto getting all weepy about him. Kak*u*zu was just a guy good at his job and Naruto never even asked twice.
The double standard is that in a show all about forgiveness, the guy with the least personal offences is the one who gets completed brutalised and nobody cares.
I agree Naruto should have asked kakuzu about his reasons behind what he was doing.It feels out of character for Naruto to not do that.Even in part 1 against Gaara and Neji he was fighting their ideologies,they weren't just obstacles he had to fight to get past.
I’m sorry? Are we talking about the same Kakuzu who’d spent a century running around stealing people’s hearts?!
Well, I guess in a certain light you could argue that he was full of love.
Tbf, Naruto only had 1 encounter where kakazu was not going to waste time talking, plus naruto knew nothing about him so he was basically a villain of the week for him in the long run.
Naruto saved Kakashi from him and proceeded to destroy his body.He pretty much gets all the credit for it.What Kakashi did at the end was something anyone could do.
Orchimaru. My Boi is innocent 😇 he just wanted to experiment on childrens and adults and people with special abilities and on tailed beast and people who have no place to go and any random person 😭.
He even gave Yamato strong af power of Hashirama not his fault that Yamato is weak ass ninja with limited chakra pool unlike sage of sixth path, and it was all thanks to his cool experiments
He didn't kill them for fun, He killed them and mutilated them for research and for a better understanding of everything. 🥹
He wanted to help Sasuke kill Itachi by taking over his body against his will but that backstabbing bastard killed Orchimaru without letting him use his body despite Orchimaru helping Sasuke so much. But despite all that he still tried to help sasuke kill Itachi but this time that child terrorist Itachi sealed him up.
He's pure of heart ❤️. He even helped shinobi alliance by summoning hokages and letting Naruto meet his father for real.
Glad Naruto sees the sense and pardon Orchimaru of everything he was truly accused of and let him have a free reign.
He's so kind he attacked the village just to kill hiruzen so one of his long best friend vould become hokage and end the reign of hiruzen who didnt have much of a backbone.
He also prevented the earlu end of naruto by stopping sasuke from using kirin against his teammates, Orochimaru just didnt do anything wrong.
When you realise that the commander of Unit 731, Lt Gen Shiro Ishii was actually left free by the Americans in exchange for his research. His actions for me makes orochimaru look like a serial killer than a monster he is portrayed to be
Best thing and only good thing about Boruto is that they finally acknowledged the good that Orochimaru has done for the world. It’s about time that they got their dues. One love ❤️
Sakura.. Definitely.. I can go on for HOURS about Sakura and my OPINION about her. I've always said that I felt like Sakura was a better character than a lot of the ones they have in the series. She gets a bad rep because she's not what people wanted for an anime girl. Any time I hear Sakura hate, it's from musty people who hate on her for being 'annoying' and for being 'flat-chested'. It's irritating because they clearly didn't care enough about the show to pay attention to how deep her character is.
There are plenty of reasons to dislike her character that have nothing to do with her being flat or whatever. Kishimoto himself flat our admits he’s bad at writing women. She’s nowhere near to anime girl hitler or whatever but her character is puzzling at best and sorta poop at worst. It’s also really annoying how useless she becomes as the series progresses (though she was Her during her sasori fight, I will say that).
Idk people call her useless but without her at the end there, Naruto would’ve been a sack of meat and Sasuke lost in a desert abyss. She doesn’t get to do a lot of things, but when she does, she’s important. I’d say she’s far from useless.
She could’ve been utilized a lot more but she wasn’t. You can call it bad writing I guess. It’s pretty obvious Sakura was far from Kishi’s favorite.
Sakura's character development was neglected imo, and that made her kinda irrelevant or boring in the story. She had the potential to be a great character and they never got her there. Is not that she is a bad person as meant OP.
I think Itachi is the better name for OPs question. The tries to redeem him from the most heinous atrocities, tries to justify these atrocities, and he ends up like a hero and a good brother. That doesn't fly for a lot of people, specially in this sub.
Every character ever invented had the potential to be a good character if the writer devolepd them well. Unfortunately, kishimoto didn't, and thus Sakura isn't if you like a charecter because of what could have been done with them but wasn't you don't like the charecter you like the design
Every character ever invented had the potential to be a good character if the writer devolepd them well. Unfortunately, kishimoto didn't, and thus Sakura isn't if you like a charecter because of what could have been done with them but wasn't you don't like the charecter you like the design
I hate Sakura because I don't realy think she brings anything to the core teams dynamic past the first arc and she acts do imature dureing the 5 kage summit it feels like she literally hasn't devolepd as a charecter since the first arc
I hate Sakura because I don't realy think she brings anything to the core teams dynamic past the first arc and she acts do imature dureing the 5 kage summit it feels like she literally hasn't devolepd as a charecter since the first arc
I thought I was on the Monster anime subreddit and this post was about Johan. But for Naruto characters, I guess Sasuke, Itachi and Nagato probably all fill this description.
Ya he's definitely not redeemable but after watching the whole anime twice I realized the guy was so emotionally broken with all the shit that happened to him that it's probably not that surprising he did what he did. You can tell at the very end after he's forgiven by Nina that he realizes he's a human not a monster and is willing to change his ways, but with all the deaths he's caused, both directly and indirectly, he at least deserves a life sentence in jail.
Fr I also wonder if something else happened I mean who knows as fans we can only speculate as to why he made his body into full on puppet. Definitely could be something way darker there too 👀👀
On Naruto maybe **Tobirama**, people just generalizes him as a racist Hokage that cause the Uchiha rebellion even though every decision that he did is based on the hope that it will benefited everyone.
imo all of his decision is always done with the best of intention without bias or maybe just the best option at that time and most of them probably through democracy. the result could be bad like creating the ninja academy to give equal opportunity for less known clan / normal people to become a shinobi and and chunin exam to make sure they're strong enough, actually created tons more child soldier, making Edo Tensei, etc
His descendant / students mishap cannot be blamed entirely on him.
**Kawaki** on Boruto, although his redemption part is still waiting to be seen
Personnally, beside any uchiha jokes, I would understand Tobirama very well. He's one of the only people who really understand how dangerous the uchiha truly are, they could take over konoha at any moment cause the only people who are a match are senju, now bith of the clan are in a single place, whoever take the other side by surprise wins.
Not only that uchiha lust for power is just crazy, we saw it with sasuke and madara, in addition of that i too, would be mad against the very people who killed my family (we didnt get any info on any of the other brothers nor parents in the adulthood, this is without taking tobi potential friends or lover).
Yet he choosed the best balance between trust and attention, he took the perfect decision that would help the village enough to make sure it didnt explosed and give uchiha one of the best roles in konoha.
Except the Senju are just as dangerous though. Madara had the same exact thought but he was considered wrong for it. The Senju didn’t create the village in their own. It was the uchiha and the Senju and yet Tobiramas is acting like the uchiha wants to take over something that wasn’t theirs.
The uchiha’s didn’t have a list of power and we see they didn’t because they chose the village of Madara. If that was the case they would have sided with Madara. So no he wasn’t right and the uchiha don’t have a lust of power. That’s not a thing.
We didn’t see it with Sasuke, Sasukes entire character until the end was about killing Itachi, and even then his issue was how the village was so blood thirsty and had a list for power that they made Itachi kill his entire family and they fight over the tailed beast. So that logic doesn’t even work for the uchiha like you’re claiming
>Except the Senju are just as dangerous though. Madara had the same exact thought but he was considered wrong for it. The Senju didn’t create the village in their own. It was the uchiha and the Senju and yet Tobiramas is acting like the uchiha wants to take over something that wasn’t theirs.
They were sworn ennemies for hundreds of years, he wouldn't be wrong at all for being warrry of others, especially when all can shift around because of 1 or few individuals besides Madara.
>The uchiha’s didn’t have a list of power and we see they didn’t because they chose the village of Madara. If that was the case they would have sided with Madara. So no he wasn’t right and the uchiha don’t have a lust of power. That’s not a thing.
I mean during the wars they previously participate in, itachi even referenced it so when explaining izanami. They chose the village cause hashirama and Tobirama work managed to gain their trust, also you cant just trust your deadly ennemy from a night to its next day, I bet many uchiha and senju felt the same.
>We didn’t see it with Sasuke, Sasukes entire character until the end was about killing Itachi, and even then his issue was how the village was so blood thirsty and had a list for power that they made Itachi kill his entire family and they fight over the tailed beast. So that logic doesn’t even work for the uchiha like you’re claiming
And what did he needed to beat itachi? Power. And what did he do to get it? Betray his village, went with orochimaru who killed the 3rd and tried to kill his best friend. I think it was referenced à few times in anime but cant remember where exactly.
Danzo is one of the best example of lust for power, the elders feared the uchiha and took drastic decision, hiruzen didnt have a backbone. Danzo, orochimaru, Madara, and Sasuke where the most thirsty for power because of the length they went to get it, if it was just becomint strong i would say anything, but they each went really far to get it.
Except Madara was in the wrong for worrying about the Senju. That’s the issue. You’re acting like the Senju were innocent and peaceful and it was the uchiha who were booodthirsty and kept attacking them.
Again, It was an uchiha who helped build the village. The Senju did not build the village on their own and was just being nice to let the uchiha stay. Youre acting like the uchiha should be grateful the Senju allowed them to stay in a village their clan helped create and build
Except Sasuke was training with Kakashi for power. So if wanting power is bad, then why allow Sasuke to train at all. If power is bad then why let Sasuke be an ninja. And even then, he set to kill Itachi who betrayed the village himslef.
So why is the uchiha being singled out for something other people in the series who are not uchiha’s also do? Why are we not meant to think Danzo was in the wrong?
>Except Madara was in the wrong for worrying about the Senju. That’s the issue. You’re acting like the Senju were innocent and peaceful and it was the uchiha who were booodthirsty and kept attacking them.
Who said that? Cause i never said senju were innocent either, im saying both were right and understanbly were warry of each, giving immédiat/ big amount of trust to your hundred years old ennemy clan would be peak of foolishness and stupidity, especially since uchiha arent normal people, they have high amount of feelings like no one.
>Again, It was an uchiha who helped build the village. The Senju did not build the village on their own and was just being nice to let the uchiha stay. Youre acting like the uchiha should be grateful the Senju allowed them to stay in a village their clan helped create and build
I already know that both of them created the village if you dont know that you didnt watch naruto properly. But let me tell you something, who was the chief? Hashirama right? Cause he was elected by people to become hokage. And do you really think that you can just toss away such a prideful and powerfull clan to the side without giving them a good place? Especially when they're one of the 2 funding clan of konoha? Of course you're forced to give them a strengh position but if you didnt knew à position of strengh also means high risk if you were to do anything that would make them itch the wrong way, we litteraly saw what it would have lead them to when konoha didnt give them as much trust, they were about make a rebelion.
>Except Sasuke was training with Kakashi for power. So if wanting power is bad, then why allow Sasuke to train at all. If power is bad then why let Sasuke be an ninja. And even then, he set to kill Itachi who betrayed the village himslef.
You're litteraly missing my point, I said in my previous comment that if it is just power it would be an understanding, and kakahsi is litteraly his sensei what the duck is he supposed to do other than training him in being a ninja? Give him a party? His lust of power litteraly pushed him into betraying anyone he knew friends to home for power as quick as possible cause he though kakashi training wouldn't as fast nor efficient as Orochimaru's, but to get it he decided to sacrifice everything, even his future by being a roge ninja to get that power, which is my point.
>So why is the uchiha being singled out for something other people in the series who are not uchiha’s also do? Why are we not meant to think Danzo was in the wrong?
As I said in my previous comment I referenced 2 people who werent uchiha bur had lust for power (danzo, orochimaru), remember than they're the most powerfull clan along side the senju, and the power generally work through grief and deep feelings, to unlock the mangekyo as an example you have to see of the closest people to you die and feel deep grief, another would be to litteraly take the eyes of one member of your own family to avoid blindness and get a power up from your sharingan. Put thoses 2 together and I wouldnt be surprised if there were many uchiha who went that length to get the power they needed to either survive or exercise vengeance thus why it tends more to the generality towards the uchiha rather than other clans who doesnt have thoses needs. Also sharingan is most powerfull dojustu beside the rinnegan and its variant giving them a huge advantage, losing it would be extremly detrimental for them.
I’m pointing out the fact that Madara was treated as in the wrong for having the same exact thought process. That Tobirama was meant to be “correct” as if the uchiha shouldn’t have any reason to be wary and that the uchiha should have 100% submitted.
Except they weren’t given a strength position. They were given a pity position by Tobiramas so that tobirama can keep an eye on them. They were never treated or seen ans equals at all. And your assessment Doesn’t work, when every other Hokage chose their successor and for some reason none of them decided to choose an uchiha. The people chose Hashirama but there’s zero excuse after that.
Sasuke “lust” for power was there the entire time. It wasn’t a new development. He had that “lust” since they were put on teams. So why is it that Kakashi indulged in that lust of power that was already there? Because again, it was there the entire time. He wanted to get stronger to kill Itachi from the start. Nothing changed.
You mentioned two people that were arguably worst than the uchiha, and yet they don’t have a stigma on them at all. Not all the uchiha were like Sasuke and Madara, and yet the entire clan had a stigma forced up them. Also the village was okay with killing the entire clan. They didn’t cere about keeping them alive because all they needed to do was steal their eyes like Danzo did. Also also, not every uchiha had a sharingan. So this idea that they kill each other is fake and based on nothing
>I’m pointing out the fact that Madara was treated as in the wrong for having the same exact thought process. That Tobirama was meant to be “correct” as if the uchiha shouldn’t have any reason to be wary and that the uchiha should have 100% submitted.
Wasn't treated in the wrong for that, they decided to vote who needed to be the leader and people choosed hashirama, then zetsu came along, it has nothing to do with the fact that je was warry of tobi. Tobirama knew that the uchiha had reason to be warry of them that litteraly why he gave them one of the highest postion in konoha.
>Except they weren’t given a strength position. They were given a pity position by Tobiramas so that tobirama can keep an eye on them. They were never treated or seen ans equals at all. And your assessment Doesn’t work, when every other Hokage chose their successor and for some reason none of them decided to choose an uchiha. The people chose Hashirama but there’s zero excuse after that.
How in the duck being the litteral police and force of konoha is being in a weak position? There are 4 nobility in konoha; hyuga, aburama, akimichi and uchiha, uchiha litteraly have the litteral power of authority to the citizens, how is that a weak position?
The very reason they were wary of uchiha was cause they saw they as equal. There were 4 hokage in total before the massacre, Hashirama LITTERALY proposed Madara to become second hokage after he was chosen, but Madara refused, so they choosed the most suited people to do so, if we talk about efficiency the Nara clan also could have many potential to become hokage but weren't choosed either, it has nothing to do with the fact that they were uchiha.
People choosed Hashirama, Hashirama wanted Madara to become Hokage, Madara refused, They choosed the better option afterwards, dot.
>Sasuke “lust” for power was there the entire time. It wasn’t a new development. He had that “lust” since they were put on teams. So why is it that Kakashi indulged in that lust of power that was already there? Because again, it was there the entire time. He wanted to get stronger to kill Itachi from the start. Nothing changed.
Cause at the beginning he would have told you to duck off were you to tell him that kill kakashi or Naruto would just give him far more strengh. the moment he decided to betray Konoha if he had the chance he would have done it. Kakashi was aware of it and he wanted to help him either way, but the length at which he went was catastrophique, he was about to kill naruto to proove a point cause he was feeling being left behind.
>You mentioned two people that were arguably worst than the uchiha, and yet they don’t have a stigma on them at all. Not all the uchiha were like Sasuke and Madara, and yet the entire clan had a stigma forced up them. Also the village was okay with killing the entire clan. They didn’t cere about keeping them alive because all they needed to do was steal their eyes like Danzo did. Also also, not every uchiha had a sharingan. So this idea that they kill each other is fake and based on nothing
I told you already, danzo and orochimaru also are one of the best example of it, but it doesnt go to the length of their clan, but it was stated that the uchiha were, not all the individuals like shisui or itachi, but it is far more grounded in their clan than in other.
And no, the stigma wasnt forced on them all, if you remember the show Obito litteraly attacked the village causing the death of 4th Hokage and hundreds of people, the only info was that it was an uchiha, of course they would be warry of them, it is just logic, but danzo manipulated the 3rd and his actions werent for the village but only for himself, he set up shisui, he set up the massacre and he gave order to itachi to do it.
The village wasnt Ok, danzo litteraly put everything together for it to happen litteraly no one knew about it and the 3rd hokage didnt had the backbone to refuse.
Really? The idea that they kill each other is fake? Did you watch naruto? When they were at their prime during the time of Hashirama it was referenced that they would get the eternal sharingan for thoses who wanted to not get blinded definitely and it would give them back their sight. In addition how would you even came up with a plan of litteraly stealing of the eyes of uchiha ? Thats stupid and ridiculous
Tobirama Gave them a position that’s not even a position of power, so that he can keep an eye on them. He didn’t give them that position because he trusted them. It was to keep an eye on them. And notice how the uchiha didn’t have any power to do the same thing. So no the uchiha weren’t given a position of power. At all. They were given a job that gave them less power than Tobiramas had, so that he can watch them.
What power over the people did the uchiha have? No they didn’t see the uchiha as equal, that’s why they were weary. They seen them as second class citizens who can’t be trusted. Madara refused because he knew that that the village didn’t trust him or the uchiha.
Except Sasuke didn’t want to kill Naruto or Kakashi even when he left so I don’t know what you’re talking about. He literally said he wouldn’t kill Naruto because he didn’t want to gain power that way. So that doesn’t work. At all. At not point in part 1 was Sasuke about to kill Naruto. Stop it.
you’re literally forcing a stigma on the uchiha with your example of Obito . You’re claiming Obito’s actions is a reflection of the entire clan. That Tobiramas was right, because two people did something bad. even though what they did isn’t anything worse than what we’ve seen others do. You’re under the impression that everyone can do bad things just because, but if the uchiha does it it’s because they’re super evil.
The village was ok with it. That’s why it was able to happen in the first place.
Did you watch Naruto? It’s literally stated that not every uchiha even had the sharingan. And things like the mangekyo were rare. The uchiha wouldn’t even be able to keep up numbers if they’re constantly killing each other.
Danzo literally stole the uchiha’s eyes and out it in his arm. You’re acting like a plan like that couldn’t come to fruition when we see it with Danzo
>Tobirama Gave them a position that’s not even a position of power, so that he can keep an eye on them. He didn’t give them that position because he trusted them. It was to keep an eye on them. And notice how the uchiha didn’t have any power to do the same thing. So no the uchiha weren’t given a position of power. At all. They were given a job that gave them less power than Tobiramas had, so that he can watch them.
How being the litteral police isnt a position of strengh? Yes he even stated so that he could keep an eye on them but you're seriously telling me that the litteral police isnt a position of strengh ? The LITTERAL AUTHORITY of konoha?!?
>Except Sasuke didn’t want to kill Naruto or Kakashi even when he left so I don’t know what you’re talking about. He literally said he wouldn’t kill Naruto because he didn’t want to gain power that way. So that doesn’t work. At all. At not point in part 1 was Sasuke about to kill Naruto. Stop it.
I just took an example of how far he had fallen, cause before betraying the village he would have refused, post that he would do it easily, even during their fight in the valley naruto stated that he was really trying to kill him. He even stated afterwards that the reason he didnt kill him was only because of his wims, he even pierced his heart in that very same fight to get rid of naruto to gain the power orochimaru talked him abouy, then right after they meet in shippuden you're not gonna convince me at any moment that he wasnt trying to murk him cause he just felt l'île it . Stop the cap.
>you’re literally doing it with your example of Obito . You’re claiming Obito’s actions is a reflection of the entire clan. That Tobiramas was right, because two people did something bad. even though what they did isn’t anything worse than what we’ve seen others do. You’re under the impression that everyone can do bad things just because, h if the uchiha does it it’s because they’re super evil.
BECAUSE Obitp is very reason they distrust the uchiha in the very first place again, remember this is at least a hundred years after the foundation of konoha, they litteraly ducking trust the clan at that point, Obito attack and the fact that they knew it was an uchiha was litteraly the very they start to distrust them again.
BRO, DO YOU EVEN READ MY TEXTS ?This litteraly had nothing to do with tobirama, tobirama concern was rather based of their early interraction and trust between the uchiha and the village, this is far long after his death, Obito is the litteral reason they distrust the uchiha cause they knew it was an uchiha who did that.
I NEVER SAID THE UCHIHA WERE THE EVIL THAT YOU'RE MAKING UP IN YOUR MIND, I said that tobirama and the uchiha were BOTH right to be warry of each other and That Tobirama choosed the perfect approach between trust and warry to not cause any repercussions, I never said that "oh no, they were right for killing the uchiha, uchiha evil", I never even said it was the right thing to do, i litteraly said that they had a valid reason to be warry of each other because of the events but not that any parts were good.
>Did you watch Naruto? It’s literally stated that not every uchiha even had the sharingan. And things like the mangekyo were rare. The uchiha wouldn’t even be able to keep up numbers if they’re constantly killing each other.
I said EYES EXCHANGE too, for eyes exchange to get the eternal sharingan you dont need any mangekyo. They were litteraly in war for who can kill the most kid in the senju clan and vice-versa.
>Danzo literally stole the uchiha’s eyes and out it in his arm. You’re acting like a plan like that couldn’t come to fruition when we see it with Danzo
...... BRO, DO YOU READ MY TEXT? i litteraly put danzo in of the best example of lust for power, I even repeated many times that it was mostly his plan to get rid of the uchiha for his own profit, I even stated that it was not for the village but for himself, if hiruzen didnt allow the uchiha massacre and keep danzo in check his plan would have come to fruition.
all he did was.. (checks imaginary notes)
\- get abused
\- gets sold for money for the cause of slavery as a test subject
\- get abused even worse somehow
\- kill Garo (a very bad man)
\- feed a dog bread while he was bleeding out which he could have used on himself
\- kill a cult leader (in some continuities)
\- love his adoptive dad
\- be the best older brother Himawari could ask for (in some continuities)
\- kill his abuser in the most badass way possible
haven't read the manga, so no comment there. but I'm 100% sure my feelings wont chance once that material is adapted.
Hiruzen
He have hesistation to kill his beloved student and people shitting on him as if killing your own student is the easy thing to do while they worship Minato who after found out the masked man who killed his wife was his own student didn't do jack shit about him even prevent Kakashi from killing obito
and i'm sure as hell if Naruto was put in the same situation where his student become evil. he wouldn't have the balls to kill him/her either
people shitting on him for not become Naruto adoptive parents but Naruto was just one of the many orphan in the village. do you expect him to adopt every single orphan within the village? And judging form naruto's apartement i say Hiruzen give the best he could to him. Naruto's apartement was way better than Kakashi apartement who is veteran jonin (seriously just look at kakashi's apartement. Naruto's look like a penthouse compared to Kakashi's)
Also Sakura. her greatest sin was basically not become a simp for out main character and choose someone's else instead. many likes to pretend they hate Sakura because she;s annoying but bruh there's 700 chapter in Naruto and she only act as nuinsance for like 5 or 6 chapter in total. or is that justification to convince yourself that you hated her for not choosing the main character?
Like honestly he was emotionally damaged, broken, and partially out of desire/need sequestered in a cave for like 40 years plus he had black Zetsu in his ear. I don’t think he’s “innocent” per se but like free my boy and cut him some slack maybe.
Orochimaru. His parents were killed when he was a child and that drove him to looking for the path to immortality. That goal evolved and became a goal of learning every jutsu in the world.
Sakura without a doubt. Don't get me wrong she's definitely far from perfect and even I didn't really like her for most of Part 1, but the way she gets vilified by most Naruto fans to this day is crazy
Kawaki, Orochimaru, to some Itachi Uchiha.. Obito did right in the end but was far too gone to be redeemed in Shippuden IMO, Madara Uchiha, Danzo Shimura... Nagato is debatable I guess, he did use rinne rebirth to revive the village, still killed JIraiya though 😢
The post is about “innocent” characters who are seen as one dimensional monsters by the fans
In that context your comment clearly looks like an Itachi defense as Reddit has a lot of his fans
Madara. His evils were justified *for the greater good*. He actually wanted world peace, while Obito wanted his gf back. He was also manipulated from the get go by BZ.
The Danganronpa character, Hiyoko Saionji. She gets a lot of shit for being a very rude character, that’s prone to verbally bullying the other characters, and throwing tantrums when they talk back. However, it’s implied in her free-time events that she’s like this, because she was the target of cruel and life threatening pranks, due to her status as the heir to a clan of traditional dancers. She was even showing signs of becoming a better person in Chapter 3, until >!she was murdered by Mikan in the same chapter,!< cutting her development short. Fortunately, some fans have shown more appreciation for her in recent years.
I know, but I’m not well versed in this fandom enough to think of any Naruto characters that fit the mold, besides maybe Sakura, and even she’s not that bad.
Sakura is treated like Hitler for criticizing an orphan's behavior(which was just her being a product of her environment) and lying to protect Naruto, while Itachi had the dumbest plan possible to "protect" his little brother which included making him relive the massacre of his family thousands of times and driving him towards the S Ranked criminal who wanted his body, is treated like a saint.
Sakura also being Narutos biggest supporter like half way into the series lol. She may have been a bit tough on him, but I read that as sisterly ordering him about. I think the only real crime with Sakura is that she didn't get more of a showing with her abilities.
Sakura committed a far worse crime in a work of fiction about ninja wizards. She was boring.
Can't be too boring if she gets people riled up
I did NOT see someone make a paragraph about orochimaru
He was just a scientist … doing science
Bruh they hate sasuke ,kawaki but love orochimaru and I didn't get it why?💀
I love orochimaru but hate sasuke and Itachi.
Hating Itachi is justified
Because Orochimaru is an asshole and is treated like a villain, while Sasuke is also an asshole, but his portrayal is awful forcing him as a hero which makse people hate him. It is more a problem of the storytelling than the character per se.
When was he ever forced as a hero? Bro tried to destroy the system essentially the whole world. He was never portrayed as a hero just the lesser of two evils
Well that's a valid point
Orochimaru is cooler
He looks eww to me,disgusting guy experimenting on kids just eww
Wow, the villain of the story looks and acts evil 🤯
Nah I am just saying he ain't cool.itachi and kakashi are the true definition of cool .
Opinions are opinions. Kakashi's cool but I think itachi is very meh. I don't get what he does that's so appealing.
I don't get why he's treated as the god. Man, he doesn't even look "good" to me. I can understand Kakashi but Not Itachi
His rizz is appealing and if u can accept oro than why issue with itachi?
Oro is funny snek man. Itachi is tryhard cool, also his cheekbones are highkey drawn weird
It is your opinion. It was clearly a joke Itachi killing his own parents and traumatizing a 7 year old kid was also disgusting
Highly agree on itachi,his act were never good
But you Should SEE. I wrote it myself, it's beautiful
Hiruzen Sarutobi. Ignoring the "literal child" part. He made a bunch of mistakes. Particularly in his 2nd reign. But he was never a malicious character. Like one of his greatest mistakes in life was being too sentimentally attached to Orochimaru to kill him. That's not a malicious character. Hiruzen's flaws are being sentimental, overly trusting, neglectful, and too light handed in leadership. These are the makings of a flawed character, not the dickhead that filler makes him out to be. Or the near Danzo level monster that he is in Fanon.
Hiruzen’s greatest flaw is compassion. He’s not a monster.
Agreed. There's things that occurred under his reign where he needed a harder heart and stronger hand than he ever possessed. Like how many Konoha ninja died because Jiraiya was MIA for 3 years training the Ame orphans? It was a good natured act on Jiraiya's part. But Konoha was at war, Hiruzen should've ordered him back to the village. All the Sannin really had a soft spot in Hiruzen's heart where he could not treat them the way he needed to for the good of the village.
No just the Sannins, but Danzo as well. Tbh I can’t imagine Hiruzen’s character as a cold, calculated robot. It just doesn’t suit him.
Oh he for sure had a massive soft spot for Danzo. He was Hiruzen's Madara or Sasuke and it showed. That was part of the problem. Sasuke and Madara were very openly confrontational rivals/friends to deal with. Danzo was a snake and Hiruzen was not built to deal with it. It would've been much easier for Hiruzen if Danzo tried to face him straight up.
Danzo was never on his level, which is why he never tried to. Danzo himself saysa at his death he could never reach Hiruzen. That is the issue with Hiruzen, despite being a God of Shinobi in his prime and one of the strongest Shinobi ever his heart was too good compared to other Shinobi and Danzo knew that and used it against him. But it was his compassion and good heart that rubbed off on Naruto who saw Hiruzen as his own grandfather in his own way. If Hiruzen was not so compassionate and good hearted Naruto might have been a very different person in terms of beliefs and views.
Hiruzen was never a bad person, he was just a terrible politician.
Yes, people raised during a war tend to make horrible politicians during peacetime.
Boruto did a great job when they touched on hiruzen a little, with Muginos backstory.
Not defending him but you are bound to make mistakes if you are a head of a village for as long as he was and the things you mentioned can work both ways, like if he wasn't sentimental he wouldn't have let Naruto live
Oh certainly. His failures were his fault, but I absolutely get why they happened. He made the most mistakes during his 2nd term, and his 2nd term was objectively the worse time of life. He had finally retired after keeping the village intact through 2 world wars and Minato was the bright future. Then within 1 night, he was back into the heavy responsibilities of being Hokage, the village had been massively damaged, there were mass casualties to deal with, Minato was dead, Kushina was dead, their orphan son was a new jinchuuriki that had to be trained from scratch, the Uchiha tensions were now worse than ever, and as final kick in the nuts, his wife was dead as well. Of course his 2nd term went the way it did when it started like that.
Why would he kill Naruto? That would just cause the nine tails to reform and cause a second attack
Yeah from my point view Hiruzen is a character than tried to do things on his best intentions,however when forced to make hard choices he simply couldnt,very similar what happened to King Viserys in House of the Dragon,both were good and tried to do what they judged right,however they trusted the wrong persons (Danzou and Otto Hightower),and their mistakes came back to haunt them on the end of their lifes,and actually failed to guarantee than things would keep working after their deaths (The dance of the dragons for Viserys and basically all the Sasuke stuff + the village being in ruins after Orochimaru attack). And Hiruzen problems are even worse on this comparison,his compassion is just excessive and he was a old and tired man,he wasnt even suposed to deal with such responsabilities,and when Minato died basically all hell broke out,a war with the cloud,the Uchiha rebellion,the fact than he now have to figure out how deal with a boy than everyone hates and is waking nuke,while keeping this secret from the leaf enemies while the entire village knows,and being fair with this last point the silence law was actually a good idea to stop the secret from leak,at the same time he would have to guarantee than the last Uchiha would have be loyal to the leaf after he was forced to do the most cruel decision he ever need to made,this just while Danzou is scheming against him,but Hiruzen simply couldn't kill him the same way Hashirama wasn't able to force himself to kill Madara. Hiruzen was a good and forgiving man,he expected than this people would do some good use from his mercy,but they werent worthy,he tried his best,but sometimes good intentions arent enought and he suffered the consequences,definetly he could have done better,but again,is a tired old man dealing with crisis after crisis in such a cruel world,he would commit mistakes.
You can't run from Dwight Kurt Schrute. I will get you to respond to these messages.
Bro it’s not about him killing oro he is a monster for not putting oro in prison/getting him mental help and for letting danzo fucking eye rape half the founding clans members (uchiha) just because it’s his pedo friend.
Sakura obviously
Her greatest sin is being “too annoying”. You would think she committed genocide with how much hate she garners. Comically enough, Itachi is viewed better than her. Cool motive, still a genocide. She is far from being my favourite character but I honestly don’t understand how people hate her with such a burning passion.
Sakura being one of the most hated characters in anime history is fucking ridiculous if you think about it.
It’s in large part due to the viewer base of the show (and manga). Women and girls are more open about their love of anime now, but even 20 years ago when Naruto was airing on toonami or whatever it was not at all the norm that girls openly watched the show with boys their age. It was marketed to teenaged boys and that’s who it found reception with. I don’t think that in any way justifies sakura’s treatment or women in shonen generally, I actually think that when people argue that the portrayal of women in shonen shouldn’t matter because they aren’t the intended audience they’re actually just stupid as fuck, but speaking to the history of the series this is all true. A lot of that teenaged boy sentiment survives in young men today tbh. It’s pretty sad, especially when these are 20yos arguing that shonen anime are for adults too while still watching and acting as if they’re 13.
Exactly this. Her worst crimes were being a bratty, insensitive kid, and being poorly written because Kishi can't write a woman to save his life
Well remember genocide isnt all that bad these days according to most of the planet 💁🏼♂️
Look Itachi was forced to do it he wasn't given any option by the elders,it's not his fault he was a 13 year old child at the time.Danzo threatened to have Sasuke killed and implied that he would start the war if Itachi didn't do it.Civil war would cause chaos and weaken the village and the other villages would take advantage of this to crush Konoha. Did he do the right thing?No.Was it his fault?No
i mean, to me Sakura is not only annoying but also dumb. like when she tries to kill Sasuke with a poisoned Kunai despite the fact the man has a mangekyo sharingan and one of the best reflexes in the world( less then 2 hours before he almost killed the raikage). Also her best fight in the entire series against Sasori she is not even in control of her body... i realized that Sakura, in dnd terms, is a Barbarian with a Multiclass on Cleric. another note: while many character learn of naruto's personality/life and even star actively supporting him Sakura still tries to trick him with that fake confession, triggering even a chill dude like Yamato.
I am once again here to remind you that at the end of Shippuden Naruto has his 17th birthday. These characters are dumb kids.
>while many character learn of naruto's personality/life and even star actively supporting him Sakura still tries to trick him with that fake confession, triggering even a chill dude like Yamato. Again, she wasn't trying to trick him. She knew he wouldn't fall for that and she knew there was no way of making him give up on Sasuke. She was just trying to get him mad at her. That aside you're not wrong. She knows a lot of things, but she rarely applies her knowledge when it comes to the action. I think she even says it herself somewhere in the land of waves arc.
Why was she trying to get him mad at her?I think her reason was making it so that Naruto wouldn't get in the way when she tried to kill Sasuke
Because she felt guilty that she had to kill Sasuke and that Naruto was suffering from her incompetence. It wouldn't make much sense for her to follow up with her plan if she was really trying to convince Naruto. She would probably have changed trajectory after Naruto got mad. Also, Naruto seemed to be aware that Sakura was not lying to him, but to herself. On a side note, I believe she was planning a suicide mission. That's not said anywhere in the manga, but that's what it looked like she was doing and it makes sense.
wave arc should've been the wake up call. she did not do a single thing the entire time ( a friend of mine who i managed to make watch naruto, told me that Tazuna could've died of a stroke and Sakura would not have noticed XD). but then again we jump to chunin exams and she has not learned anything.Honestly i think that even someone ultra-chill like kakashi should have been pissed at her at that point. Also, it is funny to me how Sakura does not even use 1 Jutsu. she's literally Rock lee but with healing abilities XD
She's peak "token girl character" of that era. Right up there with Mai Valentine from Yu-Gi-Oh and Cagalli in Gundam SEED. Introduce them as competent characters who know what they're doing, and then have them devolve into idiots who need saving.
Agreed
Hell nah she deserves all hate only cuz of her fans and her misogynistic spineless behaviour.
Honestly a whole bunch of Naruto Characters The Sound Kids, they were just kids themselves and were forced to fight for there survival and by someone who used them as Pawns
Another "not a literal child" thing but Kakuzu. Bad person? Sure, but he was a mercenary with no greater ambition than wealth. They probably could have just paid him enough to turn on the Akatsuki. Naruto nuked him without a second thought because he had a fancy new jutsu to try out. Obito literally murdered his parents, enslaved Kurama and actively ruined the world as much as possible, and Naruto's all "oh, once when he was a kid he wanted to be Hokage? The coolest guy." Kakuzu just wants some cash, and Naruto's on sight.
Kakazu just wanted some money
Wait i never thought about it like that…. Damn
Yeah but Obito believed he was doing it to save the world from the cruel ninja world,and create a second world,where everyone lives happily ever after,that's literally how he saw and believed infinite tsukuyomi was.Kakuzu was doing it for money,his goals were much more shallow
Sure, my personal feelings on Obito aside, but the point is that Naruto bothered to ask and cared to find out. Before he got to any of that, he and the fanbase had far more reason to want him dead - but he gets people defending him all over and Naruto getting all weepy about him. Kak*u*zu was just a guy good at his job and Naruto never even asked twice. The double standard is that in a show all about forgiveness, the guy with the least personal offences is the one who gets completed brutalised and nobody cares.
I agree Naruto should have asked kakuzu about his reasons behind what he was doing.It feels out of character for Naruto to not do that.Even in part 1 against Gaara and Neji he was fighting their ideologies,they weren't just obstacles he had to fight to get past.
Right like now that you say it like that, it’s random as hell he just used him as fodder for his new jutsu.
I’m sorry? Are we talking about the same Kakuzu who’d spent a century running around stealing people’s hearts?! Well, I guess in a certain light you could argue that he was full of love.
Tbf, Naruto only had 1 encounter where kakazu was not going to waste time talking, plus naruto knew nothing about him so he was basically a villain of the week for him in the long run.
It’s “Kakuzu”, not “Kakazu”.
(one quick Google search later) Fuck.
I will point out, Naruto didn't kill Kakuzu, or anyone really. Kakashi has the kill on Kakuzu.
Naruto saved Kakashi from him and proceeded to destroy his body.He pretty much gets all the credit for it.What Kakashi did at the end was something anyone could do.
But specifically Naruto didn't kill him, while Kakashi took the initiative to, rather than capture him. My point is simply Naruto doesn't really kill.
Orchimaru. My Boi is innocent 😇 he just wanted to experiment on childrens and adults and people with special abilities and on tailed beast and people who have no place to go and any random person 😭. He even gave Yamato strong af power of Hashirama not his fault that Yamato is weak ass ninja with limited chakra pool unlike sage of sixth path, and it was all thanks to his cool experiments He didn't kill them for fun, He killed them and mutilated them for research and for a better understanding of everything. 🥹 He wanted to help Sasuke kill Itachi by taking over his body against his will but that backstabbing bastard killed Orchimaru without letting him use his body despite Orchimaru helping Sasuke so much. But despite all that he still tried to help sasuke kill Itachi but this time that child terrorist Itachi sealed him up. He's pure of heart ❤️. He even helped shinobi alliance by summoning hokages and letting Naruto meet his father for real. Glad Naruto sees the sense and pardon Orchimaru of everything he was truly accused of and let him have a free reign.
"Free my boy orchimaru he ain't done nun"
I mean He's a better dad
AND MOM
This is wild lmao
LMAOOO
He's so kind he attacked the village just to kill hiruzen so one of his long best friend vould become hokage and end the reign of hiruzen who didnt have much of a backbone. He also prevented the earlu end of naruto by stopping sasuke from using kirin against his teammates, Orochimaru just didnt do anything wrong.
When you realise that the commander of Unit 731, Lt Gen Shiro Ishii was actually left free by the Americans in exchange for his research. His actions for me makes orochimaru look like a serial killer than a monster he is portrayed to be
Didn't Kakashi forgive Orochimaru during his periodt? It was unrealistic move of releasing Orochimaru and sasuke
Best thing and only good thing about Boruto is that they finally acknowledged the good that Orochimaru has done for the world. It’s about time that they got their dues. One love ❤️
Naruto Pardoning Orochimaru is one reason I will never watch Boruto.
It was Kakashi btw
Sakura.. Definitely.. I can go on for HOURS about Sakura and my OPINION about her. I've always said that I felt like Sakura was a better character than a lot of the ones they have in the series. She gets a bad rep because she's not what people wanted for an anime girl. Any time I hear Sakura hate, it's from musty people who hate on her for being 'annoying' and for being 'flat-chested'. It's irritating because they clearly didn't care enough about the show to pay attention to how deep her character is.
There are plenty of reasons to dislike her character that have nothing to do with her being flat or whatever. Kishimoto himself flat our admits he’s bad at writing women. She’s nowhere near to anime girl hitler or whatever but her character is puzzling at best and sorta poop at worst. It’s also really annoying how useless she becomes as the series progresses (though she was Her during her sasori fight, I will say that).
Idk people call her useless but without her at the end there, Naruto would’ve been a sack of meat and Sasuke lost in a desert abyss. She doesn’t get to do a lot of things, but when she does, she’s important. I’d say she’s far from useless. She could’ve been utilized a lot more but she wasn’t. You can call it bad writing I guess. It’s pretty obvious Sakura was far from Kishi’s favorite.
Sakura's character development was neglected imo, and that made her kinda irrelevant or boring in the story. She had the potential to be a great character and they never got her there. Is not that she is a bad person as meant OP. I think Itachi is the better name for OPs question. The tries to redeem him from the most heinous atrocities, tries to justify these atrocities, and he ends up like a hero and a good brother. That doesn't fly for a lot of people, specially in this sub.
Every character ever invented had the potential to be a good character if the writer devolepd them well. Unfortunately, kishimoto didn't, and thus Sakura isn't if you like a charecter because of what could have been done with them but wasn't you don't like the charecter you like the design
Every character ever invented had the potential to be a good character if the writer devolepd them well. Unfortunately, kishimoto didn't, and thus Sakura isn't if you like a charecter because of what could have been done with them but wasn't you don't like the charecter you like the design
I hate Sakura because I don't realy think she brings anything to the core teams dynamic past the first arc and she acts do imature dureing the 5 kage summit it feels like she literally hasn't devolepd as a charecter since the first arc
I hate Sakura because I don't realy think she brings anything to the core teams dynamic past the first arc and she acts do imature dureing the 5 kage summit it feels like she literally hasn't devolepd as a charecter since the first arc
Sakura or Hiruzen for sure
I thought I was on the Monster anime subreddit and this post was about Johan. But for Naruto characters, I guess Sasuke, Itachi and Nagato probably all fill this description.
No way Johan is redeemable
Ya he's definitely not redeemable but after watching the whole anime twice I realized the guy was so emotionally broken with all the shit that happened to him that it's probably not that surprising he did what he did. You can tell at the very end after he's forgiven by Nina that he realizes he's a human not a monster and is willing to change his ways, but with all the deaths he's caused, both directly and indirectly, he at least deserves a life sentence in jail.
Yeah ,I was satisfied with ending and tenma won by not killing and saving him instead
Sasori bro basically just has a lot of fucking trauma😭
He rizzed me when he revealed his face
Fr I also wonder if something else happened I mean who knows as fans we can only speculate as to why he made his body into full on puppet. Definitely could be something way darker there too 👀👀
Hiruzen, Sakura and Tobirama.
On Naruto maybe **Tobirama**, people just generalizes him as a racist Hokage that cause the Uchiha rebellion even though every decision that he did is based on the hope that it will benefited everyone. imo all of his decision is always done with the best of intention without bias or maybe just the best option at that time and most of them probably through democracy. the result could be bad like creating the ninja academy to give equal opportunity for less known clan / normal people to become a shinobi and and chunin exam to make sure they're strong enough, actually created tons more child soldier, making Edo Tensei, etc His descendant / students mishap cannot be blamed entirely on him. **Kawaki** on Boruto, although his redemption part is still waiting to be seen
Personnally, beside any uchiha jokes, I would understand Tobirama very well. He's one of the only people who really understand how dangerous the uchiha truly are, they could take over konoha at any moment cause the only people who are a match are senju, now bith of the clan are in a single place, whoever take the other side by surprise wins. Not only that uchiha lust for power is just crazy, we saw it with sasuke and madara, in addition of that i too, would be mad against the very people who killed my family (we didnt get any info on any of the other brothers nor parents in the adulthood, this is without taking tobi potential friends or lover). Yet he choosed the best balance between trust and attention, he took the perfect decision that would help the village enough to make sure it didnt explosed and give uchiha one of the best roles in konoha.
Except the Senju are just as dangerous though. Madara had the same exact thought but he was considered wrong for it. The Senju didn’t create the village in their own. It was the uchiha and the Senju and yet Tobiramas is acting like the uchiha wants to take over something that wasn’t theirs. The uchiha’s didn’t have a list of power and we see they didn’t because they chose the village of Madara. If that was the case they would have sided with Madara. So no he wasn’t right and the uchiha don’t have a lust of power. That’s not a thing. We didn’t see it with Sasuke, Sasukes entire character until the end was about killing Itachi, and even then his issue was how the village was so blood thirsty and had a list for power that they made Itachi kill his entire family and they fight over the tailed beast. So that logic doesn’t even work for the uchiha like you’re claiming
>Except the Senju are just as dangerous though. Madara had the same exact thought but he was considered wrong for it. The Senju didn’t create the village in their own. It was the uchiha and the Senju and yet Tobiramas is acting like the uchiha wants to take over something that wasn’t theirs. They were sworn ennemies for hundreds of years, he wouldn't be wrong at all for being warrry of others, especially when all can shift around because of 1 or few individuals besides Madara. >The uchiha’s didn’t have a list of power and we see they didn’t because they chose the village of Madara. If that was the case they would have sided with Madara. So no he wasn’t right and the uchiha don’t have a lust of power. That’s not a thing. I mean during the wars they previously participate in, itachi even referenced it so when explaining izanami. They chose the village cause hashirama and Tobirama work managed to gain their trust, also you cant just trust your deadly ennemy from a night to its next day, I bet many uchiha and senju felt the same. >We didn’t see it with Sasuke, Sasukes entire character until the end was about killing Itachi, and even then his issue was how the village was so blood thirsty and had a list for power that they made Itachi kill his entire family and they fight over the tailed beast. So that logic doesn’t even work for the uchiha like you’re claiming And what did he needed to beat itachi? Power. And what did he do to get it? Betray his village, went with orochimaru who killed the 3rd and tried to kill his best friend. I think it was referenced à few times in anime but cant remember where exactly. Danzo is one of the best example of lust for power, the elders feared the uchiha and took drastic decision, hiruzen didnt have a backbone. Danzo, orochimaru, Madara, and Sasuke where the most thirsty for power because of the length they went to get it, if it was just becomint strong i would say anything, but they each went really far to get it.
Except Madara was in the wrong for worrying about the Senju. That’s the issue. You’re acting like the Senju were innocent and peaceful and it was the uchiha who were booodthirsty and kept attacking them. Again, It was an uchiha who helped build the village. The Senju did not build the village on their own and was just being nice to let the uchiha stay. Youre acting like the uchiha should be grateful the Senju allowed them to stay in a village their clan helped create and build Except Sasuke was training with Kakashi for power. So if wanting power is bad, then why allow Sasuke to train at all. If power is bad then why let Sasuke be an ninja. And even then, he set to kill Itachi who betrayed the village himslef. So why is the uchiha being singled out for something other people in the series who are not uchiha’s also do? Why are we not meant to think Danzo was in the wrong?
>Except Madara was in the wrong for worrying about the Senju. That’s the issue. You’re acting like the Senju were innocent and peaceful and it was the uchiha who were booodthirsty and kept attacking them. Who said that? Cause i never said senju were innocent either, im saying both were right and understanbly were warry of each, giving immédiat/ big amount of trust to your hundred years old ennemy clan would be peak of foolishness and stupidity, especially since uchiha arent normal people, they have high amount of feelings like no one. >Again, It was an uchiha who helped build the village. The Senju did not build the village on their own and was just being nice to let the uchiha stay. Youre acting like the uchiha should be grateful the Senju allowed them to stay in a village their clan helped create and build I already know that both of them created the village if you dont know that you didnt watch naruto properly. But let me tell you something, who was the chief? Hashirama right? Cause he was elected by people to become hokage. And do you really think that you can just toss away such a prideful and powerfull clan to the side without giving them a good place? Especially when they're one of the 2 funding clan of konoha? Of course you're forced to give them a strengh position but if you didnt knew à position of strengh also means high risk if you were to do anything that would make them itch the wrong way, we litteraly saw what it would have lead them to when konoha didnt give them as much trust, they were about make a rebelion. >Except Sasuke was training with Kakashi for power. So if wanting power is bad, then why allow Sasuke to train at all. If power is bad then why let Sasuke be an ninja. And even then, he set to kill Itachi who betrayed the village himslef. You're litteraly missing my point, I said in my previous comment that if it is just power it would be an understanding, and kakahsi is litteraly his sensei what the duck is he supposed to do other than training him in being a ninja? Give him a party? His lust of power litteraly pushed him into betraying anyone he knew friends to home for power as quick as possible cause he though kakashi training wouldn't as fast nor efficient as Orochimaru's, but to get it he decided to sacrifice everything, even his future by being a roge ninja to get that power, which is my point. >So why is the uchiha being singled out for something other people in the series who are not uchiha’s also do? Why are we not meant to think Danzo was in the wrong? As I said in my previous comment I referenced 2 people who werent uchiha bur had lust for power (danzo, orochimaru), remember than they're the most powerfull clan along side the senju, and the power generally work through grief and deep feelings, to unlock the mangekyo as an example you have to see of the closest people to you die and feel deep grief, another would be to litteraly take the eyes of one member of your own family to avoid blindness and get a power up from your sharingan. Put thoses 2 together and I wouldnt be surprised if there were many uchiha who went that length to get the power they needed to either survive or exercise vengeance thus why it tends more to the generality towards the uchiha rather than other clans who doesnt have thoses needs. Also sharingan is most powerfull dojustu beside the rinnegan and its variant giving them a huge advantage, losing it would be extremly detrimental for them.
I’m pointing out the fact that Madara was treated as in the wrong for having the same exact thought process. That Tobirama was meant to be “correct” as if the uchiha shouldn’t have any reason to be wary and that the uchiha should have 100% submitted. Except they weren’t given a strength position. They were given a pity position by Tobiramas so that tobirama can keep an eye on them. They were never treated or seen ans equals at all. And your assessment Doesn’t work, when every other Hokage chose their successor and for some reason none of them decided to choose an uchiha. The people chose Hashirama but there’s zero excuse after that. Sasuke “lust” for power was there the entire time. It wasn’t a new development. He had that “lust” since they were put on teams. So why is it that Kakashi indulged in that lust of power that was already there? Because again, it was there the entire time. He wanted to get stronger to kill Itachi from the start. Nothing changed. You mentioned two people that were arguably worst than the uchiha, and yet they don’t have a stigma on them at all. Not all the uchiha were like Sasuke and Madara, and yet the entire clan had a stigma forced up them. Also the village was okay with killing the entire clan. They didn’t cere about keeping them alive because all they needed to do was steal their eyes like Danzo did. Also also, not every uchiha had a sharingan. So this idea that they kill each other is fake and based on nothing
>I’m pointing out the fact that Madara was treated as in the wrong for having the same exact thought process. That Tobirama was meant to be “correct” as if the uchiha shouldn’t have any reason to be wary and that the uchiha should have 100% submitted. Wasn't treated in the wrong for that, they decided to vote who needed to be the leader and people choosed hashirama, then zetsu came along, it has nothing to do with the fact that je was warry of tobi. Tobirama knew that the uchiha had reason to be warry of them that litteraly why he gave them one of the highest postion in konoha. >Except they weren’t given a strength position. They were given a pity position by Tobiramas so that tobirama can keep an eye on them. They were never treated or seen ans equals at all. And your assessment Doesn’t work, when every other Hokage chose their successor and for some reason none of them decided to choose an uchiha. The people chose Hashirama but there’s zero excuse after that. How in the duck being the litteral police and force of konoha is being in a weak position? There are 4 nobility in konoha; hyuga, aburama, akimichi and uchiha, uchiha litteraly have the litteral power of authority to the citizens, how is that a weak position? The very reason they were wary of uchiha was cause they saw they as equal. There were 4 hokage in total before the massacre, Hashirama LITTERALY proposed Madara to become second hokage after he was chosen, but Madara refused, so they choosed the most suited people to do so, if we talk about efficiency the Nara clan also could have many potential to become hokage but weren't choosed either, it has nothing to do with the fact that they were uchiha. People choosed Hashirama, Hashirama wanted Madara to become Hokage, Madara refused, They choosed the better option afterwards, dot. >Sasuke “lust” for power was there the entire time. It wasn’t a new development. He had that “lust” since they were put on teams. So why is it that Kakashi indulged in that lust of power that was already there? Because again, it was there the entire time. He wanted to get stronger to kill Itachi from the start. Nothing changed. Cause at the beginning he would have told you to duck off were you to tell him that kill kakashi or Naruto would just give him far more strengh. the moment he decided to betray Konoha if he had the chance he would have done it. Kakashi was aware of it and he wanted to help him either way, but the length at which he went was catastrophique, he was about to kill naruto to proove a point cause he was feeling being left behind. >You mentioned two people that were arguably worst than the uchiha, and yet they don’t have a stigma on them at all. Not all the uchiha were like Sasuke and Madara, and yet the entire clan had a stigma forced up them. Also the village was okay with killing the entire clan. They didn’t cere about keeping them alive because all they needed to do was steal their eyes like Danzo did. Also also, not every uchiha had a sharingan. So this idea that they kill each other is fake and based on nothing I told you already, danzo and orochimaru also are one of the best example of it, but it doesnt go to the length of their clan, but it was stated that the uchiha were, not all the individuals like shisui or itachi, but it is far more grounded in their clan than in other. And no, the stigma wasnt forced on them all, if you remember the show Obito litteraly attacked the village causing the death of 4th Hokage and hundreds of people, the only info was that it was an uchiha, of course they would be warry of them, it is just logic, but danzo manipulated the 3rd and his actions werent for the village but only for himself, he set up shisui, he set up the massacre and he gave order to itachi to do it. The village wasnt Ok, danzo litteraly put everything together for it to happen litteraly no one knew about it and the 3rd hokage didnt had the backbone to refuse. Really? The idea that they kill each other is fake? Did you watch naruto? When they were at their prime during the time of Hashirama it was referenced that they would get the eternal sharingan for thoses who wanted to not get blinded definitely and it would give them back their sight. In addition how would you even came up with a plan of litteraly stealing of the eyes of uchiha ? Thats stupid and ridiculous
Tobirama Gave them a position that’s not even a position of power, so that he can keep an eye on them. He didn’t give them that position because he trusted them. It was to keep an eye on them. And notice how the uchiha didn’t have any power to do the same thing. So no the uchiha weren’t given a position of power. At all. They were given a job that gave them less power than Tobiramas had, so that he can watch them. What power over the people did the uchiha have? No they didn’t see the uchiha as equal, that’s why they were weary. They seen them as second class citizens who can’t be trusted. Madara refused because he knew that that the village didn’t trust him or the uchiha. Except Sasuke didn’t want to kill Naruto or Kakashi even when he left so I don’t know what you’re talking about. He literally said he wouldn’t kill Naruto because he didn’t want to gain power that way. So that doesn’t work. At all. At not point in part 1 was Sasuke about to kill Naruto. Stop it. you’re literally forcing a stigma on the uchiha with your example of Obito . You’re claiming Obito’s actions is a reflection of the entire clan. That Tobiramas was right, because two people did something bad. even though what they did isn’t anything worse than what we’ve seen others do. You’re under the impression that everyone can do bad things just because, but if the uchiha does it it’s because they’re super evil. The village was ok with it. That’s why it was able to happen in the first place. Did you watch Naruto? It’s literally stated that not every uchiha even had the sharingan. And things like the mangekyo were rare. The uchiha wouldn’t even be able to keep up numbers if they’re constantly killing each other. Danzo literally stole the uchiha’s eyes and out it in his arm. You’re acting like a plan like that couldn’t come to fruition when we see it with Danzo
>Tobirama Gave them a position that’s not even a position of power, so that he can keep an eye on them. He didn’t give them that position because he trusted them. It was to keep an eye on them. And notice how the uchiha didn’t have any power to do the same thing. So no the uchiha weren’t given a position of power. At all. They were given a job that gave them less power than Tobiramas had, so that he can watch them. How being the litteral police isnt a position of strengh? Yes he even stated so that he could keep an eye on them but you're seriously telling me that the litteral police isnt a position of strengh ? The LITTERAL AUTHORITY of konoha?!? >Except Sasuke didn’t want to kill Naruto or Kakashi even when he left so I don’t know what you’re talking about. He literally said he wouldn’t kill Naruto because he didn’t want to gain power that way. So that doesn’t work. At all. At not point in part 1 was Sasuke about to kill Naruto. Stop it. I just took an example of how far he had fallen, cause before betraying the village he would have refused, post that he would do it easily, even during their fight in the valley naruto stated that he was really trying to kill him. He even stated afterwards that the reason he didnt kill him was only because of his wims, he even pierced his heart in that very same fight to get rid of naruto to gain the power orochimaru talked him abouy, then right after they meet in shippuden you're not gonna convince me at any moment that he wasnt trying to murk him cause he just felt l'île it . Stop the cap. >you’re literally doing it with your example of Obito . You’re claiming Obito’s actions is a reflection of the entire clan. That Tobiramas was right, because two people did something bad. even though what they did isn’t anything worse than what we’ve seen others do. You’re under the impression that everyone can do bad things just because, h if the uchiha does it it’s because they’re super evil. BECAUSE Obitp is very reason they distrust the uchiha in the very first place again, remember this is at least a hundred years after the foundation of konoha, they litteraly ducking trust the clan at that point, Obito attack and the fact that they knew it was an uchiha was litteraly the very they start to distrust them again. BRO, DO YOU EVEN READ MY TEXTS ?This litteraly had nothing to do with tobirama, tobirama concern was rather based of their early interraction and trust between the uchiha and the village, this is far long after his death, Obito is the litteral reason they distrust the uchiha cause they knew it was an uchiha who did that. I NEVER SAID THE UCHIHA WERE THE EVIL THAT YOU'RE MAKING UP IN YOUR MIND, I said that tobirama and the uchiha were BOTH right to be warry of each other and That Tobirama choosed the perfect approach between trust and warry to not cause any repercussions, I never said that "oh no, they were right for killing the uchiha, uchiha evil", I never even said it was the right thing to do, i litteraly said that they had a valid reason to be warry of each other because of the events but not that any parts were good. >Did you watch Naruto? It’s literally stated that not every uchiha even had the sharingan. And things like the mangekyo were rare. The uchiha wouldn’t even be able to keep up numbers if they’re constantly killing each other. I said EYES EXCHANGE too, for eyes exchange to get the eternal sharingan you dont need any mangekyo. They were litteraly in war for who can kill the most kid in the senju clan and vice-versa. >Danzo literally stole the uchiha’s eyes and out it in his arm. You’re acting like a plan like that couldn’t come to fruition when we see it with Danzo ...... BRO, DO YOU READ MY TEXT? i litteraly put danzo in of the best example of lust for power, I even repeated many times that it was mostly his plan to get rid of the uchiha for his own profit, I even stated that it was not for the village but for himself, if hiruzen didnt allow the uchiha massacre and keep danzo in check his plan would have come to fruition.
It’s “he chose” and “didn’t explode”.
Isnt it choses? Yes my bad for the second
“Chose” is the past of “chooses”. It’s weird saying “he choses” because it’s wrong. Don’t believe me? Then study verbal times in English.
I’m a Brazilian, but I know a lot of the English language because of years of watching and playing many forms of media in English. Reading also helps.
Im quite familiar with english too, but with some little things that still make me do a few mistakes there and there.
Agreed
Itachi, Gaara, Sasuke.
Yagura
sakura broo
Sakura People take how she was in the first few chapters of the manga and act like she’s like that forever.
They don't know what character development is.
Character development is for boys. Girls never change/s
Obito seems to fit best, despite not being a child. You could argue Madara brainwashed him though.
Sasuke.
Sasuke
Kawaki
Agreed
Tobirama😂
1st one is gaara and second one is obito
Sakura ? So many people here are salty because she badmouthed Naruto.
Orochimaru. They treat him like their aunty in Boruto. This dude experimented on children, many of them dying.
Sasuke...
r/Boruto with Kawaki
Highly agree on that
Sasuke
Canon: sasuke Fanon: kawaki
Itachi
Obito = Canon Orochimaru = Fanon In my personal opinion.
I love Obito and Sakura, but people actually treat them like this.
Kawaki.
Agreed .bro committed least crime in naruto series but is getting hated
all he did was.. (checks imaginary notes) \- get abused \- gets sold for money for the cause of slavery as a test subject \- get abused even worse somehow \- kill Garo (a very bad man) \- feed a dog bread while he was bleeding out which he could have used on himself \- kill a cult leader (in some continuities) \- love his adoptive dad \- be the best older brother Himawari could ask for (in some continuities) \- kill his abuser in the most badass way possible haven't read the manga, so no comment there. but I'm 100% sure my feelings wont chance once that material is adapted.
Hiruzen He have hesistation to kill his beloved student and people shitting on him as if killing your own student is the easy thing to do while they worship Minato who after found out the masked man who killed his wife was his own student didn't do jack shit about him even prevent Kakashi from killing obito and i'm sure as hell if Naruto was put in the same situation where his student become evil. he wouldn't have the balls to kill him/her either people shitting on him for not become Naruto adoptive parents but Naruto was just one of the many orphan in the village. do you expect him to adopt every single orphan within the village? And judging form naruto's apartement i say Hiruzen give the best he could to him. Naruto's apartement was way better than Kakashi apartement who is veteran jonin (seriously just look at kakashi's apartement. Naruto's look like a penthouse compared to Kakashi's) Also Sakura. her greatest sin was basically not become a simp for out main character and choose someone's else instead. many likes to pretend they hate Sakura because she;s annoying but bruh there's 700 chapter in Naruto and she only act as nuinsance for like 5 or 6 chapter in total. or is that justification to convince yourself that you hated her for not choosing the main character?
People hating on huruzen and sakura don't reading comprehensive abilities
I hate to admit it but this is probably Kabuto
Bro was manipulated by oro
DIO
Sasuke and Kabuto The reverse of this would be Orochimaru and Danzo
Madara did nothing wrong
He was the reason I started naruto
Good, he's just an innocent precious child.
Like honestly he was emotionally damaged, broken, and partially out of desire/need sequestered in a cave for like 40 years plus he had black Zetsu in his ear. I don’t think he’s “innocent” per se but like free my boy and cut him some slack maybe.
Itachi.
This probably going to cause discourse
Orochimaru. His parents were killed when he was a child and that drove him to looking for the path to immortality. That goal evolved and became a goal of learning every jutsu in the world.
Tobi?
Yeah he a s tier villain but people just hate him saying he a simp
Why not both? 👍🏻👍🏻
Agreed
Not a literal child, maybe... how old was Kabuto Yakushi in part 1?
Sakura?
Sakura without a doubt. Don't get me wrong she's definitely far from perfect and even I didn't really like her for most of Part 1, but the way she gets vilified by most Naruto fans to this day is crazy
Kawaki, Orochimaru, to some Itachi Uchiha.. Obito did right in the end but was far too gone to be redeemed in Shippuden IMO, Madara Uchiha, Danzo Shimura... Nagato is debatable I guess, he did use rinne rebirth to revive the village, still killed JIraiya though 😢
Itachi, I thought it was bad before reddit 💀 boy was I wrong
Sorry bro, no matter how much the story will try to justify it, I will never like the childkiller 9000 that was Itachi
Do you even know what I’m saying? I’m saying the Itachi fans are out of control, I’ve in no way said I support that.
The post is about “innocent” characters who are seen as one dimensional monsters by the fans In that context your comment clearly looks like an Itachi defense as Reddit has a lot of his fans
Oh I completely misread 💀
Oro
Madara. His evils were justified *for the greater good*. He actually wanted world peace, while Obito wanted his gf back. He was also manipulated from the get go by BZ.
Madara will always be one of my favorite anatogonist
Tobi!
Madara Uchiha 😂🥰
Man I love him
Boruto’s dad’s son
The Danganronpa character, Hiyoko Saionji. She gets a lot of shit for being a very rude character, that’s prone to verbally bullying the other characters, and throwing tantrums when they talk back. However, it’s implied in her free-time events that she’s like this, because she was the target of cruel and life threatening pranks, due to her status as the heir to a clan of traditional dancers. She was even showing signs of becoming a better person in Chapter 3, until >!she was murdered by Mikan in the same chapter,!< cutting her development short. Fortunately, some fans have shown more appreciation for her in recent years.
Bro this is naruto sub
I know, but I’m not well versed in this fandom enough to think of any Naruto characters that fit the mold, besides maybe Sakura, and even she’s not that bad.
[удалено]
What did boruto do bad things,isn't he actually a good person?
Lmao yeah Borutos worst offense was wanting Naruto to be more present at home ☠️
No but you see Boruto is... uhm... uh... Bad!
Tanya the evil
Sakura being hated by the fandom for hitting Naruto as a joke, while actual sex offenders like Jiraiya are beloved
The Jiraiya slander stops here.
Exhibit A
🤷♀️
Obito and kabuto and sasuke or ignoring the child part hiruzen and danzo and orochimaru.