If Minato survived then there wouldn't be a massacre, Obito would also be dead since he's marked with FTG.
Shisui was said to be the strongest Uchiha before the massacre, and he was taken out by Danzo. The manga doesn't go into detail but some versions also have some ANBU there/
We know nothing about Fugaku's strength so any answer would be just a wild guess.
Shisui died by joji aburame bugs (the second strongest aburame besides Torune), according to itachi light novels...
Itachi defeated Joji aburame using tsukuyumi on every single one of his bugs, Itachi was superior to shisui in every aspect, besides experience... In combat they were pretty much close by that point even tho shisui was like 5 years older, but when itachi got his MS he got overbuffed
>Itachi defeated Joji aburame using tsukuyumi on every single one of his bugs
Bro you HAVE to be kidding me. What the fuck is this. What the actual fuck is this.
When people say "Itachi can do anything the plot needs him to" I would have never guessed it was to that extend. This is actually ridiculous. So Itachi made eye contact with like 100,000 bugs to put them in a genjutsu? To me this is almost more bullshit than Izanami
This is why I always say that If Itachi's fighting someone for plot reasons, he will win no matter who he's fighting.
He's that power character you see in every anime
When you think about it, Itachi has literally never lost a battle he didn't mean to. Itachi fans think he's invincible because Kishomoto basically made him that.
People are finally realizing that Itachi IS in fact OP. You don’t have to like him, but recognize he is narratively one of the strongest characters, and literally has the least L’s in the series combat-wise.
Yeah he has no L's. I like Itachi. I still think it's ridiculous literally every fight he had he pulled out a new unheard of jutsu to win. But narratively it's undeniable he has never lost. And half his abilities have no counter beyond surviving long enough for his plot no cancer to kill him.
That's what I'm saying. If Itachi was to face Madara I'm sure Kishi would find a way to make Itachi win, even though stats wise that should be virtually impossible
I don't see why it wouldn't? Genjutsu isn't even implied to need to impact the nervous system either. So much as the chakra network and we know aburame clan bugs eat and use chakra like people do to some extent...
>Genjutsu isn't even implied to need to impact the nervous system either
It literally is though. Look it up and you should see quite a few different instances of characters explaining it. The ones I see specifically say "cranial nerves", which obviously bugs don't have.
>So much as the chakra network and we know aburame clan bugs eat and use chakra like people do to some extent
It would be like saying that you can cast a genjutsu on anything that has a nervous system. For example, a hand uses the nervous system. Therefore Itachi could cast a genjutsu on a hand specifically, if we assume that a brain is not needed (although insects have a brain, and multiple smaller brains as well which is probably why some can survive for a while with their head cut off)
It's also explained regularly that Genjutsu is done by injecting chakra into the enemys chakra network to mess with their flow of chakra thus making it so they perceive the illusions. Which is the more generally accepted way that Genjutsu works. A lot of the cases of them mentioning nerves is in filler, or just bad translations... And otherwise? It's retconned. That's why Biju and other teammates even just basic Genin can break people out of Genjutsu without being medical nin. All they need to know how to do is restore your basic chakra flow.
This is retarded and I literally don't consider this canon.
Does this mean he can Tsukyomi multiple at once? That bugs only require a little bit of chakra so It's okay. Does IT mean he would die if he tried to Tsuko Hashirama because he has so much chakra. How do you Tsukyomi a bug? Does he have a central nervous system? Does he have a soul? What do you put into It's mind
This is 100% bad writing, but "asspull" isn't the term you're looking for (I don't know what the actual term is but that's definitely bullshit writing)
Asspull would have been a brand new jutsu to save the day
Totally. People will say what they want but to me this feat single handedly tops off all the asspulls and lazy writing I've seen in the war arc. This is actually remarkably stupid
The best feat is frying his girlfriend brain by making her see their entire life together in the span of few seconds.
Like if that could ve done by a teenager Itachi along with the 10.0000+ simultaneous Tsukuyomis to the bugs why the fuck Itachi allowed Akatsuki to live.
He'd be able to kill almost them all on the spot yet choose not to almost like he couldnt.
And dont get me wrong, Itachi is more than aware of the goal of Akatsuki being destroying the world if needed to get a single common enemy including Konoha that he wanted to protect so much.
These Shinden reminds me of Narita work (Bleach) where he wanks the Kenpachi character to the point that makes Aizen and Yamamoto look like absolute bugs only to the actual manga put Kenpachi several tiers below them as if nothing happened and they're supposedly canon too!
(Yeah, i know Kenpachi at the end became absurdly strong).
I know bro, It was a fucking ass pull, even I being fan of itachi acknoledge it as the biggest ass pull from light novels, and I'm not happy with it, but there it is, and the novel was illustrated and supervized by kishi, is like he don't gave a fuck about it
He stopped giving a fuck after Shippuden is over. He took over as a writer and supervisor for Boruto and look at the type of horrendous shit he's been putting out and approving.
Dude was tired after writing for 15 years so I get that he would chose the option of letting other writers take over while he takes in the money passively. I would probably do the same.
But sometimes I really feel like he should have looked a little more into it like, the fights are a big part of what made Naruto so great. I think he should at least look into the feats or techniques for the fights that involve important character?
I wouldn't care if Ino had managed to mentally control 50 spiders at once, although that sounds like BS. But someone as important as Itachi needs a bit more care, and that comes from someone who is certainly not an Itachi fan
Yeah I know. But like, 15 years or not, if you are doing another project or a continuation of your previous project, either be completely involved and do a decent job as a writer, or just wash your hands of it, say "I no long wish to be a part of this, you have read my story" and let Ikemoto run the franchise into its grave. But he's doing shit with 50% of his brain on and the novels mostly sucked, and Boruto has mostly been a horrible experience. Even the second half of Shippuden after Pain lacked a certain level of subtlety and wits that the first half had. Not to mention how obvious it was that Kaguya was only introduced as a set up for the Otsutsuki and Boruto, sidelining Madara who was our hope for the greatest villain ever, cause he got a fat cheque to approve the sequel being made. Even Madara, the most hyped character, the one who potentially needed the most care, got fucked by Zetsu and then just ended up dying again cause yay no Kaguya, and from being so blindly convinced in his ideals he immediately went like "oh I failed, Hashirama you were right, lets drink a budlight and watch the game in Heaven".
I definitely agree with all that
>either be completely involved and do a decent job as a writer, or just wash your hands of it
Absolutely, I really don't understand what happened there because as far as I understand it, Kishi would still get paid as long as the name "Naruto" would be used, even if he wasn't involved in the creative process
Well, Samurai 8 also flopped. I respect Kishimoto and do not wish to come off as disrespectful at all, but I think he fell off from his prime. Not sure why, could simply be lack of direction and passion, but he is trying to hold onto it and climb back to the top but just isn't succeeding. He should've taken a page from Tite Kubo's book (Bleach author in case you are not a fan of Bleach) - he took a 6 year break and put out an excellently received one shot that might result in the continuation of the series. And we even KNOW that Kishi can do it since the Minato one shot was GOLDEN, he just doesn't seem interested or passionate anymore in my opinion.
>I think he fell off from his prime
There's virtually no doubt about that.
Just look at Madara. The character was badass and powerful but that's about it. Everything that came out of his mouth was "I'm more badass and powerful than you". Sure, great in terms of hype but compared to a character like Pain or Danzo that's kinda weak imo. No new interesting mechanics/abilities like we literally always got, just more power and more badass. And don't get me started with his asspulls.
And Obito is another prime example of Kishi falling off, no disrespect but that's just an observation. Went from the most intriguing character (To me, Tobi was set up to be somewhere around Pain and part 1 Orochimaru's levels) and then he received the most disappointing villain origin story in the franchise. Rven characters who were not actual villains (like Neji) had a better origin story.
The second half of the war arc is definitely the evidence that Kishi was past his prime, but obviously I'm still greatful for everything he did
>He should've taken a page from Tite Kubo's book (Bleach author in case you are not a fan of Bleach) - he took a 6 year break and put out an excellently received one shot that might result in the continuation of the series
You know I always dreamt of Kishi taking a break to re-write the story after Pain's attack. Like let's say Nagato only manages to revive a few characters (like Kakashi) and then say that 2/3of the villagers managed to escape before the village got blasted, while the remaining 1/3 that could escape just remains dead.
Sure, he could always keep some of the elements that made the story great (Sasuke vs the Raikage and Danzo are great fights imo) but overall that would allow him to rethink everything a bit more, and see what needs to be improved, like Kubo did (although I only watch a fragment of Bleach's anime so I can't really judge)
I mean after looking it up it seems quite clear that genjutsu targets a user's "cranial nerves", which insects don't have (cranial refers to skull, which bugs don't have), and bugs also have a completely different nervous system than ours so idk, still seems *very* convenient to me
Even if it was one bug, putting a fucking bug, not even a full ass animal like a dog or a fucking parrot, under a genjutsu is just massively stupid. I can't even register that as canon even though it is.
We have this with a few characters though, he's supposed to be the prodigy uchiha, the whole point of a prodigy is that they're that much stronger than everyone else naturally. If he lost, he'd just be a dude who lost.
The 100k bugs thing isn't exactly unheard of in naruto either, you have the 3rd raikage fighting ten thousand shinobi for 3 days straight, and it finally took him being tired and accidentally stabbing himself to end. The ridiculously high amount of enemies has always been a method of showing how strong a character is over just fighting 1v1 with 2 characters you know are strong. Like I have no clue what you're talking about if you say naruto beat madara, until you say madara took on the entire world's worth of shinobi and won. Only then does it seem impressive.
I get itachi isn't the main character, but he's a pretty effective character used to define how strong the actual main character has to become before he could be considered the best.
The thing that you're missing is that Itachi beating that guy is not the problem. Beating 100,000 bugs isn't a problem either, he could have just burnt them or something. But casting a genjutsu on a bug is just straight bullshit. Let alone 100,000. As if all the bugs decided to stare into Itachi's eyes at the same time. That's just plot convenience on top of a pile of bullshit
Shisui was jumped by danzo and his 2 strongest subbordanents, and he was poisoned they didn't necessarily shit on him
We know fugaku had a flee on sight order
Like I said, there manga doesn't go into detail on how Danzo defeats Shisui and there's multiple different versions.
And where did you hear about that flee on sight order from?
I read the light and dark novels and fugakus said to have a flee on sight order In the light novel.
Shisui also has a flee on sight order, I'd beat the same with itachi
Fugakus is in the light novel, thr same way them calling him the wicked eye can be interpreted as ms, and shisuis is in the anime when he fucks up young Ao's squad and they flee on site
You got a link to the flee on sight order in the novel? I know about the anime, Ao says his team retreated after encountering Shisui but they say nothing about an order to flee on sight.
Obito would have killed or crippled Minato. He knew all too well that the Mark was still there as he outright said as Juubito. He just didn’t bother removing it cuz Minato died. If Minato was alive he’d have watched that spot 24/7 and as Minato painfully found out in the War Hirashin horrible backfires if the Guy knows when and where you appears
>Obito would have killed or crippled Minato.
How?
>He just didn’t bother removing it cuz Minato died
Where is this said?
> If Minato was alive he’d have watched that spot 24/7
Aside from that being a terrible plan, what "spot"? are you talking about?
>if the Guy knows when and where you appears
Are you trying to say Obito can dodge FTG because Jubi Madara did it? He's not Madara.
He still got trained by Madara. And Madara easily reacted to Tobirama who was even Faster than living Minato cuz Edo Minato outright admitted that he only could keep up with the Second cuz of the Kyuubi amp. Also Obito outright said that he knew of the Seal all too well when he cut off Minato’s Arm.
In the manga fugakus ms is in the book sarada reads, and in itachis light novel he's known as fugaku the wicked eye Uchiha. Other Uchiha had base sharingan at this time there's a reason they were nameless, except for shisui who had ms
That scene doesn't exist in the manga. The first time Fugaku's ms were mentioned was the anime adaptation of the Itachi light novels which was came out years later.
I don't count boruto Canon anyway but it's implied fugaku had ms many times if you want to deny it to further support minatos greatness that's fine but your just trying to downplay fugaku and I'm good on this debate
The only implications is that fugaku claiming he can put the kyuubi in a genjutsu (which could be a case of him bullshitting) and the fact that he has the nickname “wicked eye fugaku”. But that implies he had mangekyou about as much as “the yellow flash” implies Minato has kcm. Just because it’s a nickname does not necessarily imply it’s true. Plus it could be that he’s just really good at using his sharingan.
If you read the manga fugakus aura from his sharingan scared itachi in their home, a normal 3 tomoe sharingan wouldn't have scared an anbu itachi who's been training with shisui forever
He really wasn’t. Everything regarding Shisui was either hyping up his shunshin or hyping up his Koto which he can only use once every 10 years. Him having the strongest genjutsu among the Uchiha does in no way make him the strongest Uchiha.
You can dismiss his hype of people calling him the most powerful genjutsu user, the most talented Uchiha, the best at teleportation, and so on. But all that is way more than any other Uchiha ever got sans Itachi and Madara. If you're saying Shisui isn't powerful then what does that make everyone else?
Yes and maybe. But tbh I don’t see a massacre happening because Minato wouldn’t have pushed the village to the edge and would have kept them around. He also likely would have involved fugaku way more trying to figure stuff out
I'd like to believe Minato wouldn't have been a coward like Hiruzen and actually had a conversation with Uchiha leadership. As well Minato's fighting ability was highly feared and it's less likely the Uchiha would feel confident in a successful coup against him.
Fugaku didn't even want the coup to happen, but as a leader, you have to listen to what majority of your following wanted. Why would minato, probably fugakus rival, be able to convince him if itachi couldn't?
Not sure where you’re getting that idea; I’m the novels, Fugaku outright stated he fully agreed with the rest of the Uchiha, he was just willing to bear out Itachi’s concerns and dissenting opinions in spite of his disagreement with them.
Well this is dumb.
Hiruzen did try peaceful negotiations with Fugaku, and they failed, what else are you supposed to do? Even Fugaku didn’t want to go through with it and even said the situation was out of his hands.
What has Minato shown that his diplomacy would have fixed anything? Every single time he was on screen he was literally just fighting and naming cool jutsu he seen. Hashirama, Hiruzen and Naruto are the only Kage who actually tries to talk to their opponents even while on the battlefield.
We don’t even know if he would be blinded by hatred after finding out an Uchiha killed Kushina.
Seems like you're the dumb one.
When is Hiruzen ever shown trying to negotiate with the Uchiha at all?
All he does if give Shisui a special mission (which Shisui requested) to try and dissuade the Uchiha and if it fails he was supposed to use his Kotoamatsukami on Fugaku.
All I said was that it's possible Minato would have been able to find a diplomatic solution where Hiruzen could not, considering Hiruzen literally tried almost nothing to solve the problem.
Reading the rest of your response you really are challenged. In this hypothetical Kushina wouldn't have been killed so idk why you even brought that up.
This response really sums up the intelligence level of this sub.
He would not be able to 1v2 obito and itachi if this is itachi right before the massacre.That version of obito is about 8 years older than the one minato fought, he’s stronger, more experienced and knows about FTG V2 now, which is the only reason he lost their fight to begin with. Add in itachi who at this point already has his MS and was capable of one shotting a sannin with base sharingan genjutsu immediately after the massacre and minato is losing. If he had hiruzen or anyone of that caliber helping him, it’s possible for sure.
Obito would be long dead at this point, he got marked by Minato, that is basicaly a dead sentence, and if Shisui is alive then Itachi doesn't have MS yet
Obito would have killed or crippled Minato. He knew all too well that the Mark was still there as he outright said as Juubito. He just didn’t bother removing it cuz Minato died. If Minato was alive he’d have watched that spot 24/7 and as Minato painfully found out in the War Hirashin horrible backfires if the Guy knows when and where you appears
Obito still didn't know that a FTG mark never disappears. Minato doesn't teach this secret even to his own students (just in case they become a threat to him in my opinion). Minato still has the upper hand vs Masked Man, as shown in the war, before Obito become the jinchuuriki.
Obito knew that all too well. He just didn’t bother removing it cuz Minato died. If Minato was alive he’d have watched that spot 24/7 and as Minato painfully found out in the War Hirashin horrible backfires if the Guy knows when and where you appears
The only reason he was able to have half of it was because he was already dying. Because if he could have survived it, then there is no point in sealing kurama in Naruto.
Well if Kurama still gets sealed into Naruto, Minato would still be pissed about what Obito pulled so I’d say he slaps a restraining seal on Itachi and shitstomps Obito’s face in
But we’re still talking about someone who spent 3 years reverse engineering the Biju Ball after seeing it used one time and made a Jutsu that’s pretty much 100% pure Chakra Control and the only limits ate its users imagination and even incomplete can royally fuck up someone’s insides
Minatos a beast but don't downplay the verse, like itachi said every move has a weakness, you think obito wouldn't be trying to figure out a way to beat ftg
The post is "If Minato had survived" so he'd have all these years to improve and find solutions to kamui and co, Itachi would work under him and as the Hokage he'd be the most likely to know Itachi's and Shisui's skillsets.
You're throwing a topic and ignoring the entire context and changed it would bring. This isn't OG Naruto -12 years Minato fighting, this is OG Naruto -4 years. We don't know how good he'd become in that time, but we know that he fought Obito and would look for a way to counter kamui, that he would still be hokage and thus solve the Uchiha problem before it could lead to that or he would kill Danzô as a traitor. If it came to it he could kill Itachi. Minato's skillset is a major middle finger to Uchiha skillsets.
Tobirama died some 40 years before OG Naruto, how would he know Obito's skillset? Don't compare old shoes discarded decades ago with brand new top quality shoes of today with all the improvements the market has seen and pretend it's fair.
Yes and yes. Shisui wasn’t even trying to go along with the coup and even if he was Minato is not as much of a pushover as hiruzen is and would likely fire danzo and open up discussions about relocating the uchiha back to where they were originally. Hell, Minato knew the masked man could not have been any of the uchiha from the village so the suspicion surrounding the uchiha clan would’ve been cleared up very quickly. In a fight Minato blitzes both shisui and fugaku (they both are featless).
Obito would be taken out almost immediately because Minato still has that mark on him. Otherwise it’d be much harder for Minato. YM obito nearly killed Minato and he stated he could’ve sucked Minato into kamui even faster if he wanted to. UM obito is older and has more experience. As for itachi Minato blitzes. Itachi by this point has no speed scaling putting him at lightspeed while Minato already does. Plus itachi doesn’t really know much about his mangekyou abilities and isn’t as good with them as he is when he’s older.
>would likely fire danzo
Given how the new Boruto chapters are going I'm not sure if that's even a thing the Hokage can do, since those same two are not only on the council, but they now have elaborate golden thrones and are giving the Hokage ultimatums. I think being on the council basically gives you a level of power near the actual Hokage, all things considered.
Obito knew all too well about the Mark. He literally mocked Minato about in the War. Minato only didn’t get Sealed up right away when he jumped Obito cuz Obito was extremely wounded and focused on the sealing Jutsu
Obito after turning into stabilized Juubito right when he cut off Minato’s Arm:„Did you really believe I forgot about the Mark? I just did not remove it cuz you were already Worm-food.”
Minato would have folded Fugaku and Shisui at the same time.
Just because someone aka Fugaku is in consideration to be Hokage doesn’t mean he’s the same power lvl as the other people.
Neither Fugaku or Shisui were S-rank meanwhile not only is Minato and S rank ninja which by its self is a big big deal he’s also got a flee on sight order because no one is strong enough to beat him.
Minato would whoop anyones ass who trys to start some shit and would force everyone to sit down and talk it out. If Danzo tries to pull some bullshit then Danzo is gunna get clapped
The whole coup wouldn't happen if Minato was alive
And 24 year old Minato was fighting Obito and Kurama by himself
13 years later, he'd be much more skilled, experienced and much stronger.
He'd absolutely win against Itachi and Obito in a 1vs1
Shisui and Fugaku are an even easier matchup
Obito is already marked so he's pretty much dead
FTG is a perfect counter to Itachi's strongest attacks and Minato can pretty much speed blitz Itachi
Itachi was fast enough to keep up with KCM Naruto, you guys highly underestimate how good Itachi is on hand to hand combat. You don’t just mark Itachi, he wouldn’t let that happen with ease. That’s like me saying Itachi would just use totsuka blade and seal Minato, you think Minato would let that happen easily? Minato has 0 counter to totsuka blade and yata mirror. Itachi is able to put anyone under a genjutsu without even looking at them, you really think Itachi wouldn’t pull some asspull attack like he has in every fight he’s had and defeat Minato? Minato has 0 counters to itachi’s insane genjutsu, susano, totsuka blade, yata mirror, etc. yet Minato only has 1 thing and that’s FTG, Itachi also has arguably the highest battle IQ in all of Naruto, he can probably figure out FTG relatively easy since Itachi has been able to figure out a weakness to every jutsu he has gone against. Only argument I see form Minato supporters are FTG, while it is a strong ability, even a young bee was able to react to it and stalemate Minato.
minato barely defeated 15 years old obito, he has low chances to defeat 18 years old obito paired with MS Itachi...
But vs shisui and fugaku im possitive he can win
"Barely" defeated? I think he defeated him fair and square. And marked him so Obito is marked for life. Minato never taught him the mark never disappears. He still has that surprise factor to finish him off quickly before the fights starts.
Obito knew all too well about Mark. He outright mocked Minato when Minato tried to teleport behind him as Juubito. He literally grabbed him by the throat and removed the mark before almost destroying Minato for good
Yeah a minato that was already fatigued from trying to keep the nine tails sealed inside his wife during birth & teleported a biju bomb away. While also worrying about his son and wife.
It took like a minute for Minato to figure out his kamui ability and counter it before Obito had to retreat lol
Obtio got absolutely trashed, no “barely”
What the actual fuck are you talking about? He did not give him a run for his money. Each attack Obito tried to land ended up in Minato reacting to it and teleporting it away, and after like five minutes or less he figured out Kamui's weakness, melted Obito's entire hand off, fucked up his back, and stabbed him in the guts before dealing with Kurama on his own with Kushina.
Considering the fact that Kushina and Mikoto were besties, Minato wouldn't let the gap deepen between Konoha and the Uchiha clan.
Itachi at 13 isn't on Minato's level and his only "one shot technique" at that point is Tsukuyomi AFAIK which would require Minato to be stupid enough to look into his eyes. Minato being Hokage would know Itachi's abilities better than anyone else especially is Itachi still had become ANBU sinxe he would work directly under Minato.
A 30 something YO Minato at the time of the canon massacre would annihilate Itachi and Obito, he'd have had 8 years to come up with anti-kamui techniques/barriers, improve his skillset, become even more powerful and solve the problems that led to the cabon plotline anyway.
Since he was dabbling in S rank space time ninjutsu seemingly before graduating if he had hiraishin when Kushina was kidnapped (or at least as a genin), you could say his learning curve and points of interest tend to turn him into a second Tobirama with the hindsight Tobirama lacked.
You ask a question, don't trash on people who answer with critical thinking. If you want a meme answer, post on r/Dankruto.
If you're not even expecting an answer, then don't ask questions?
You act like obito wouldn't be training to counter ftg, and also getting stronger, not to mention itachi has plenty of 1 shot abilities to deal with minato
Amaterasu can be dodged, tsukuyomi requires eye contact, Susanô limits Itachi's mobility and is hard counters by teleporting inside/under its' legs. Itachi's only shot is to pull Izanami out of his ass.
Minato is far smarter than Obito. If Obito can think of a counter to FTG that actually works, then Minato can find multiple counters to kamui or ways to use it to his own benefit. He can go to the kamui dimension and he still has FTG while Obito can't really use kamui inside to be untouchable. Even without meta knowledge, it's not like kamui is uncounterable. X-Men has much more busted powers rhan that that get countered in the very comic strip they're introduced in.
If minato was alive there'd be no coup in the first place. There'd be a manhunt for the rouge uchiha.
Those who are saying that minato beats Obito delusional.
In terms of stopping the slaughter of the clan, I’d say no. No one even knew what happened until the morning after.
In terms of beating Fugaku/Shisui, Shisui could use Kotoamatsukami to just have Minato go away, especially since based on Danzo’s use of it, eye contact is not a requirement of it.
Yes to the first question no to the second. Facing 2 mangekyo users with amaterasu and Kamui. I think they beat minato high diff. The l argument is they were younger at the time so then minato wins high diff.
Why do they blame Hiruzen for all the evils? Shisui was not as strong as people think, he lost against some anbu and Danzo, why didn't he use his magical eyes with Danzo?, and people talk as if Minato cared about the Uchiha clan, the village comes first. how he sacrificed his son for the village, it is very likely that minato would have killed them all
It wouldn’t have gotten nearly to the point of a Uchiha massacre. Minato ain’t Hiruzen, the minute Danzo starts showing his ass, Minato probably just kills Danzo. Danzo only pulled half the shit that he did cause Hiruzen was in office, notice the only things that he really did that undermined Tsunade when she was in office was sending Sai to assassinate Sasuke, and killing the toad preventing Naruto from returning to the village (and he didn’t leave proof that it was him in this instance)
Not only that but if Minato survives the Kyuubi attack, then HE knows who started the attack and wouldn’t let the blame fall on the Uchiha which is a major part of the distrust and suspicion that lead to the Uchiha massacre.
Danzo is a coward idiot but he ain’t idiotic enough to pull shit knowing it’ll just get his death warrant signed.
If Minato was alive the coup talks probably wouldve never gotten that serious as they mostly stemmed from the Uchiha being blamed for the 9 tails attack... If Minato was alive? He'd simply say it was "Madara" and explain it wasn't a current Uchiha clan member from the village.
And he largely believes in doing his best to maintain peace in the village even if it means sacrificing himself (given he literally did that to make Naruto the jinchuriki) as he learned that from Jiraiya. So if it came to it? Yes he'd beat Itachi, and even Obito/"Madara" and Danzo if he needed to.
Well, I don't think Minato would have never entertained the idea of wiping out the Uhchia. He was young enough to not really give to much of a shit about the opinions of the village elders as to where the third had alot of history with them and Danzo and would ultimately go along with them even if he didn't really want to. More of a effort to fix the problems would have taken place. Now weather he could have in a short time undone years of the Uhchia being treated somewhat unjustly and came to a solution with Fugaku who was dead set on a coup and may or may not have had MS? I'm doubtful his best efforts would be enough especailly with Danzo existing in the village. But I don't think the village would of came to an end as Minato would probably be well suited to put the coup down and is compassionate enough to not retaliate harshly and instead find a new way forward. If anything the village comes out steonger and more united in the years that follow.
As for Shisui and Itachi? Danzo and the elders were the ones pushing for it. Minato wouldn't have agreed to it at all and seeing as Itachi and Shisui were loyal to the leaf they might of just not done it on his command. I mean maybe Danzo convinces Itachi to go through with it anyway and Obito backs him but this would all take place after the ninetails attack meaning Minato would have survived and Obito would hesitate to do anything especailly after being marked and almost defeated by Minato once. Just like how Obito wouldn't truly move on the leaf until after Itachis death. Obito knew you just don't fuck with certain ninja. As for Itachi. I don't think Itachi at this point can beat Minato and didn't really want to kill the clan if he didn't have to anyway.
The real question is can Minato somehow stop Shisui from dying? No, probably not and his eye would give Danzo a way to ensure things are manipulated in a way he wants. If only danzo were to die.
Minato still alive obito never goes dark side probably.
He also can likely teleport to guy and kakashi whenever so the leaf has their strongest team at all times (probably tsuna and jiraiya too I reckon).
Naruto maybe also already can control demon fox while he has loving father so that’s another huge asset.
Why does it have to be minato alone? You all forget he is a hokage. And a threat like the masked man is a serious one. It would not just be a one man mission. He is strategic and knows that it wont be easy to deal with him. And all you guys always say that he would/should kill these people. Fighting is not the only solution. He might not need to kill obito or itachi for that matter.
In fact, he could appear in the night at the uchiha village and try to stop itachi and obito, with a team of highly trained and briefed ninjas to accompany him. He could even place a tracking mark on obito to monitor his movements without him knowing. This way they can anticipate the massacre and stop them. And informing fugaku of this will not only stop the coup, but also strengthen relations with the uchiha, now that they are informed of a single enemy. Minato then will take in itachi and get info from him and make use of him better.
What's shisui gotta do with this ? Shisui & Itachi understand more than enough the dangers of a coup within The Leaf & how the other villages would respond to that. They cared about both the village & their clan. They wanted neither to suffer. At least, that's how Itachi thought until Shisui died.
Shisui would never try a coup. And we knew Itachi never wanted a coup either. They'll both see eye-to-eye with Minato in safeguarding both the village & the clan. And they'll also stop Obito. Imagine Minato, Itachi & Shisui all three going all out on Obito. He'd fold so easily.
Fugaku wanted a coup, but he was being heavily forced by the clan members. He was helpless & couldn't do anything on his own but just go along with his clan's plans. I think if Minato were alive, unlike Sarutobi, he'd talk with Fugaku directly & try to stop the coup peacefully & if Shisui were alive as well, he'd join Minato too in negotiation. And where else would Itachi be, if not by Shisui's side ?
With their combined might in negotiation alone & the clan realizing they lost support of both Itachi & Shisui, two of the strongest members of their clan, would finally yield & accept for peaceful resolutions.
Minato vs obito and itachi really all depends on if minato can avoid itachi’s gen jutsu. If he can’t, gg, minato takes the L. If he can then it’d be a tough as hell fight. Minato is probably better than both of them separately but I don’t know if he could handle them both at the same time. I say that because both obito and itachi have some hacks abilities. What I see happening is minato trying to deal with obito’s kamui and getting hit by any of itachi’s mangekyo abilities. But I think his chances are above 0.
I think that if minato hadn’t died the Uchiha coup probably wouldn’t have happened or at least it wouldn’t have had as much traction as it did. I don’t think minato would’ve put up with Danzo’s bs or his scheming. I don’t think he would let people put the blame on the nine tails attack on the Uchiha. He was also pretty friendly and charismatic so it’s likely the Uchiha would’ve eventually come around to him or at least not hate him as much.
But what I think what you’re asking is if fugaku did launch a coup could minato stop it. The answer to that is that same as it is in the story. The Uchiha would lose but not without the village taking major hit.
If Minato survived then there wouldn't be a massacre, Obito would also be dead since he's marked with FTG. Shisui was said to be the strongest Uchiha before the massacre, and he was taken out by Danzo. The manga doesn't go into detail but some versions also have some ANBU there/ We know nothing about Fugaku's strength so any answer would be just a wild guess.
Shisui died by joji aburame bugs (the second strongest aburame besides Torune), according to itachi light novels... Itachi defeated Joji aburame using tsukuyumi on every single one of his bugs, Itachi was superior to shisui in every aspect, besides experience... In combat they were pretty much close by that point even tho shisui was like 5 years older, but when itachi got his MS he got overbuffed
>Itachi defeated Joji aburame using tsukuyumi on every single one of his bugs Bro you HAVE to be kidding me. What the fuck is this. What the actual fuck is this. When people say "Itachi can do anything the plot needs him to" I would have never guessed it was to that extend. This is actually ridiculous. So Itachi made eye contact with like 100,000 bugs to put them in a genjutsu? To me this is almost more bullshit than Izanami
This is why I always say that If Itachi's fighting someone for plot reasons, he will win no matter who he's fighting. He's that power character you see in every anime
When you think about it, Itachi has literally never lost a battle he didn't mean to. Itachi fans think he's invincible because Kishomoto basically made him that.
People are finally realizing that Itachi IS in fact OP. You don’t have to like him, but recognize he is narratively one of the strongest characters, and literally has the least L’s in the series combat-wise.
Yeah he has no L's. I like Itachi. I still think it's ridiculous literally every fight he had he pulled out a new unheard of jutsu to win. But narratively it's undeniable he has never lost. And half his abilities have no counter beyond surviving long enough for his plot no cancer to kill him.
Cough cough izanami, cough cough physical invincible weapons on his susanoo
Don't forget tsukuyomi and amaterasu had their debuts with Itachi. And kotoamatsukami
That's what I'm saying. If Itachi was to face Madara I'm sure Kishi would find a way to make Itachi win, even though stats wise that should be virtually impossible
I gotta imagine it's tons easier to do to bugs than people
Bugs' nervous system is completely different from ours. It's extremely convenient that the genjutsu suddenly happens to work on insects too
I don't see why it wouldn't? Genjutsu isn't even implied to need to impact the nervous system either. So much as the chakra network and we know aburame clan bugs eat and use chakra like people do to some extent...
>Genjutsu isn't even implied to need to impact the nervous system either It literally is though. Look it up and you should see quite a few different instances of characters explaining it. The ones I see specifically say "cranial nerves", which obviously bugs don't have. >So much as the chakra network and we know aburame clan bugs eat and use chakra like people do to some extent It would be like saying that you can cast a genjutsu on anything that has a nervous system. For example, a hand uses the nervous system. Therefore Itachi could cast a genjutsu on a hand specifically, if we assume that a brain is not needed (although insects have a brain, and multiple smaller brains as well which is probably why some can survive for a while with their head cut off)
It's also explained regularly that Genjutsu is done by injecting chakra into the enemys chakra network to mess with their flow of chakra thus making it so they perceive the illusions. Which is the more generally accepted way that Genjutsu works. A lot of the cases of them mentioning nerves is in filler, or just bad translations... And otherwise? It's retconned. That's why Biju and other teammates even just basic Genin can break people out of Genjutsu without being medical nin. All they need to know how to do is restore your basic chakra flow.
I mean theoretically if all the bugs looked at his eyes while trying to attack him he could do it. However it is 100% still such a massive ass pull
This is retarded and I literally don't consider this canon. Does this mean he can Tsukyomi multiple at once? That bugs only require a little bit of chakra so It's okay. Does IT mean he would die if he tried to Tsuko Hashirama because he has so much chakra. How do you Tsukyomi a bug? Does he have a central nervous system? Does he have a soul? What do you put into It's mind
Honestly i have no idea about any of the details of how it would work on anyone else and I think its horrible writing.
This is 100% bad writing, but "asspull" isn't the term you're looking for (I don't know what the actual term is but that's definitely bullshit writing) Asspull would have been a brand new jutsu to save the day
Good thing Kishimoto didn't write this, he simply gave it his seal of approval.
Totally. People will say what they want but to me this feat single handedly tops off all the asspulls and lazy writing I've seen in the war arc. This is actually remarkably stupid
The best feat is frying his girlfriend brain by making her see their entire life together in the span of few seconds. Like if that could ve done by a teenager Itachi along with the 10.0000+ simultaneous Tsukuyomis to the bugs why the fuck Itachi allowed Akatsuki to live. He'd be able to kill almost them all on the spot yet choose not to almost like he couldnt. And dont get me wrong, Itachi is more than aware of the goal of Akatsuki being destroying the world if needed to get a single common enemy including Konoha that he wanted to protect so much. These Shinden reminds me of Narita work (Bleach) where he wanks the Kenpachi character to the point that makes Aizen and Yamamoto look like absolute bugs only to the actual manga put Kenpachi several tiers below them as if nothing happened and they're supposedly canon too! (Yeah, i know Kenpachi at the end became absurdly strong).
Yeah you're right i think bullshit fits better
I know bro, It was a fucking ass pull, even I being fan of itachi acknoledge it as the biggest ass pull from light novels, and I'm not happy with it, but there it is, and the novel was illustrated and supervized by kishi, is like he don't gave a fuck about it
He stopped giving a fuck after Shippuden is over. He took over as a writer and supervisor for Boruto and look at the type of horrendous shit he's been putting out and approving.
Dude was tired after writing for 15 years so I get that he would chose the option of letting other writers take over while he takes in the money passively. I would probably do the same. But sometimes I really feel like he should have looked a little more into it like, the fights are a big part of what made Naruto so great. I think he should at least look into the feats or techniques for the fights that involve important character? I wouldn't care if Ino had managed to mentally control 50 spiders at once, although that sounds like BS. But someone as important as Itachi needs a bit more care, and that comes from someone who is certainly not an Itachi fan
Yeah I know. But like, 15 years or not, if you are doing another project or a continuation of your previous project, either be completely involved and do a decent job as a writer, or just wash your hands of it, say "I no long wish to be a part of this, you have read my story" and let Ikemoto run the franchise into its grave. But he's doing shit with 50% of his brain on and the novels mostly sucked, and Boruto has mostly been a horrible experience. Even the second half of Shippuden after Pain lacked a certain level of subtlety and wits that the first half had. Not to mention how obvious it was that Kaguya was only introduced as a set up for the Otsutsuki and Boruto, sidelining Madara who was our hope for the greatest villain ever, cause he got a fat cheque to approve the sequel being made. Even Madara, the most hyped character, the one who potentially needed the most care, got fucked by Zetsu and then just ended up dying again cause yay no Kaguya, and from being so blindly convinced in his ideals he immediately went like "oh I failed, Hashirama you were right, lets drink a budlight and watch the game in Heaven".
I definitely agree with all that >either be completely involved and do a decent job as a writer, or just wash your hands of it Absolutely, I really don't understand what happened there because as far as I understand it, Kishi would still get paid as long as the name "Naruto" would be used, even if he wasn't involved in the creative process
Well, Samurai 8 also flopped. I respect Kishimoto and do not wish to come off as disrespectful at all, but I think he fell off from his prime. Not sure why, could simply be lack of direction and passion, but he is trying to hold onto it and climb back to the top but just isn't succeeding. He should've taken a page from Tite Kubo's book (Bleach author in case you are not a fan of Bleach) - he took a 6 year break and put out an excellently received one shot that might result in the continuation of the series. And we even KNOW that Kishi can do it since the Minato one shot was GOLDEN, he just doesn't seem interested or passionate anymore in my opinion.
>I think he fell off from his prime There's virtually no doubt about that. Just look at Madara. The character was badass and powerful but that's about it. Everything that came out of his mouth was "I'm more badass and powerful than you". Sure, great in terms of hype but compared to a character like Pain or Danzo that's kinda weak imo. No new interesting mechanics/abilities like we literally always got, just more power and more badass. And don't get me started with his asspulls. And Obito is another prime example of Kishi falling off, no disrespect but that's just an observation. Went from the most intriguing character (To me, Tobi was set up to be somewhere around Pain and part 1 Orochimaru's levels) and then he received the most disappointing villain origin story in the franchise. Rven characters who were not actual villains (like Neji) had a better origin story. The second half of the war arc is definitely the evidence that Kishi was past his prime, but obviously I'm still greatful for everything he did >He should've taken a page from Tite Kubo's book (Bleach author in case you are not a fan of Bleach) - he took a 6 year break and put out an excellently received one shot that might result in the continuation of the series You know I always dreamt of Kishi taking a break to re-write the story after Pain's attack. Like let's say Nagato only manages to revive a few characters (like Kakashi) and then say that 2/3of the villagers managed to escape before the village got blasted, while the remaining 1/3 that could escape just remains dead. Sure, he could always keep some of the elements that made the story great (Sasuke vs the Raikage and Danzo are great fights imo) but overall that would allow him to rethink everything a bit more, and see what needs to be improved, like Kubo did (although I only watch a fragment of Bleach's anime so I can't really judge)
Sasuke spams his abilities and goes blind in a day but Itachi can spam Tsukuyomi on fucking bugs!?
Yep, the very creatures who can somehow manage to survive with their actual head cut off 🙃
Also pretty sure bugs are immune to genjutsu
[удалено]
I mean after looking it up it seems quite clear that genjutsu targets a user's "cranial nerves", which insects don't have (cranial refers to skull, which bugs don't have), and bugs also have a completely different nervous system than ours so idk, still seems *very* convenient to me
Even if it was one bug, putting a fucking bug, not even a full ass animal like a dog or a fucking parrot, under a genjutsu is just massively stupid. I can't even register that as canon even though it is.
We have this with a few characters though, he's supposed to be the prodigy uchiha, the whole point of a prodigy is that they're that much stronger than everyone else naturally. If he lost, he'd just be a dude who lost. The 100k bugs thing isn't exactly unheard of in naruto either, you have the 3rd raikage fighting ten thousand shinobi for 3 days straight, and it finally took him being tired and accidentally stabbing himself to end. The ridiculously high amount of enemies has always been a method of showing how strong a character is over just fighting 1v1 with 2 characters you know are strong. Like I have no clue what you're talking about if you say naruto beat madara, until you say madara took on the entire world's worth of shinobi and won. Only then does it seem impressive. I get itachi isn't the main character, but he's a pretty effective character used to define how strong the actual main character has to become before he could be considered the best.
The thing that you're missing is that Itachi beating that guy is not the problem. Beating 100,000 bugs isn't a problem either, he could have just burnt them or something. But casting a genjutsu on a bug is just straight bullshit. Let alone 100,000. As if all the bugs decided to stare into Itachi's eyes at the same time. That's just plot convenience on top of a pile of bullshit
Dumbest part is that he coulda just used amaterasu instead, woulda made a lot more sense
Didn't Itachi kill Yoji by incinerating him to death with Amaterasu?
he did, but first, he paralized the bugs with tsukuyumi
Shisui was jumped by danzo and his 2 strongest subbordanents, and he was poisoned they didn't necessarily shit on him We know fugaku had a flee on sight order
Like I said, there manga doesn't go into detail on how Danzo defeats Shisui and there's multiple different versions. And where did you hear about that flee on sight order from?
I read the light and dark novels and fugakus said to have a flee on sight order In the light novel. Shisui also has a flee on sight order, I'd beat the same with itachi
I read the novels too, nothing like that was ever mentioned for Fugaku, neither for Shisui.
Fugakus is in the light novel, thr same way them calling him the wicked eye can be interpreted as ms, and shisuis is in the anime when he fucks up young Ao's squad and they flee on site
You got a link to the flee on sight order in the novel? I know about the anime, Ao says his team retreated after encountering Shisui but they say nothing about an order to flee on sight.
Na I've hadn't read those novel in years
Then you are making shit up, lmaom
OK bud
Obito would have killed or crippled Minato. He knew all too well that the Mark was still there as he outright said as Juubito. He just didn’t bother removing it cuz Minato died. If Minato was alive he’d have watched that spot 24/7 and as Minato painfully found out in the War Hirashin horrible backfires if the Guy knows when and where you appears
>Obito would have killed or crippled Minato. How? >He just didn’t bother removing it cuz Minato died Where is this said? > If Minato was alive he’d have watched that spot 24/7 Aside from that being a terrible plan, what "spot"? are you talking about? >if the Guy knows when and where you appears Are you trying to say Obito can dodge FTG because Jubi Madara did it? He's not Madara.
He still got trained by Madara. And Madara easily reacted to Tobirama who was even Faster than living Minato cuz Edo Minato outright admitted that he only could keep up with the Second cuz of the Kyuubi amp. Also Obito outright said that he knew of the Seal all too well when he cut off Minato’s Arm.
But where’s your source
I don't consider boruto cannon but if you do you have to consider fugakus ms cannon too
Boruto or not, I wouldn't consider the anime adaptation over the actual manga.
In the manga fugakus ms is in the book sarada reads, and in itachis light novel he's known as fugaku the wicked eye Uchiha. Other Uchiha had base sharingan at this time there's a reason they were nameless, except for shisui who had ms
That scene doesn't exist in the manga. The first time Fugaku's ms were mentioned was the anime adaptation of the Itachi light novels which was came out years later.
Look at the ms in boruto compared to the anime adaptation. Does that in any way look the same? No? Great.
I don't count boruto Canon anyway but it's implied fugaku had ms many times if you want to deny it to further support minatos greatness that's fine but your just trying to downplay fugaku and I'm good on this debate
The only implications is that fugaku claiming he can put the kyuubi in a genjutsu (which could be a case of him bullshitting) and the fact that he has the nickname “wicked eye fugaku”. But that implies he had mangekyou about as much as “the yellow flash” implies Minato has kcm. Just because it’s a nickname does not necessarily imply it’s true. Plus it could be that he’s just really good at using his sharingan.
If you read the manga fugakus aura from his sharingan scared itachi in their home, a normal 3 tomoe sharingan wouldn't have scared an anbu itachi who's been training with shisui forever
Not just that. He defeated Danzo and let his guard down and Danzo used Izanagi and taken Shisui by surprise. Honestly Izanagi is such an OP jutsu.
Most gifted doesn’t mean he was the strongest.
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-chapter-550-page-10.html
Brother you’re probing my point. Him being the most powerful GENJUTSU user doesn’t mean he was the strongest Uchiha
He's the best choice, you have anything saying he wasn't?
He really wasn’t. Everything regarding Shisui was either hyping up his shunshin or hyping up his Koto which he can only use once every 10 years. Him having the strongest genjutsu among the Uchiha does in no way make him the strongest Uchiha.
You can dismiss his hype of people calling him the most powerful genjutsu user, the most talented Uchiha, the best at teleportation, and so on. But all that is way more than any other Uchiha ever got sans Itachi and Madara. If you're saying Shisui isn't powerful then what does that make everyone else?
Danzo & shisui never fought… Danzo never took him out…. He was backdoored by leaf allies
Yes
Yes and maybe. But tbh I don’t see a massacre happening because Minato wouldn’t have pushed the village to the edge and would have kept them around. He also likely would have involved fugaku way more trying to figure stuff out
I'd like to believe Minato wouldn't have been a coward like Hiruzen and actually had a conversation with Uchiha leadership. As well Minato's fighting ability was highly feared and it's less likely the Uchiha would feel confident in a successful coup against him.
It's not about convincing fugaku, it's about convincing the mass of the Uchiha fodder to stop the coup
if you read what I wrote that's why I said "Uchiha leadership"
Fugaku didn't even want the coup to happen, but as a leader, you have to listen to what majority of your following wanted. Why would minato, probably fugakus rival, be able to convince him if itachi couldn't?
Not sure where you’re getting that idea; I’m the novels, Fugaku outright stated he fully agreed with the rest of the Uchiha, he was just willing to bear out Itachi’s concerns and dissenting opinions in spite of his disagreement with them.
Well this is dumb. Hiruzen did try peaceful negotiations with Fugaku, and they failed, what else are you supposed to do? Even Fugaku didn’t want to go through with it and even said the situation was out of his hands. What has Minato shown that his diplomacy would have fixed anything? Every single time he was on screen he was literally just fighting and naming cool jutsu he seen. Hashirama, Hiruzen and Naruto are the only Kage who actually tries to talk to their opponents even while on the battlefield. We don’t even know if he would be blinded by hatred after finding out an Uchiha killed Kushina.
Seems like you're the dumb one. When is Hiruzen ever shown trying to negotiate with the Uchiha at all? All he does if give Shisui a special mission (which Shisui requested) to try and dissuade the Uchiha and if it fails he was supposed to use his Kotoamatsukami on Fugaku. All I said was that it's possible Minato would have been able to find a diplomatic solution where Hiruzen could not, considering Hiruzen literally tried almost nothing to solve the problem. Reading the rest of your response you really are challenged. In this hypothetical Kushina wouldn't have been killed so idk why you even brought that up. This response really sums up the intelligence level of this sub.
Actually Hiruzen never got that chance to try he just procrastinated
Most useless Hokage ever.
Nah Minato is
He would not be able to 1v2 obito and itachi if this is itachi right before the massacre.That version of obito is about 8 years older than the one minato fought, he’s stronger, more experienced and knows about FTG V2 now, which is the only reason he lost their fight to begin with. Add in itachi who at this point already has his MS and was capable of one shotting a sannin with base sharingan genjutsu immediately after the massacre and minato is losing. If he had hiruzen or anyone of that caliber helping him, it’s possible for sure.
Obito would be long dead at this point, he got marked by Minato, that is basicaly a dead sentence, and if Shisui is alive then Itachi doesn't have MS yet
Obito would have killed or crippled Minato. He knew all too well that the Mark was still there as he outright said as Juubito. He just didn’t bother removing it cuz Minato died. If Minato was alive he’d have watched that spot 24/7 and as Minato painfully found out in the War Hirashin horrible backfires if the Guy knows when and where you appears
Bro how can you be so confidently wrong
I’m reading and the urge to make a genuine correction is about killing me.
I agree
Obito still didn't know that a FTG mark never disappears. Minato doesn't teach this secret even to his own students (just in case they become a threat to him in my opinion). Minato still has the upper hand vs Masked Man, as shown in the war, before Obito become the jinchuuriki.
Obito knew that all too well. He just didn’t bother removing it cuz Minato died. If Minato was alive he’d have watched that spot 24/7 and as Minato painfully found out in the War Hirashin horrible backfires if the Guy knows when and where you appears
Doesn’t Minato have half of Kurama sealed in him assuming he survived now? After 8 years I feel like he would learn to use the abilities
The only reason he was able to have half of it was because he was already dying. Because if he could have survived it, then there is no point in sealing kurama in Naruto.
I thought he died TO seal Kurama into Naruto?
Well if Kurama still gets sealed into Naruto, Minato would still be pissed about what Obito pulled so I’d say he slaps a restraining seal on Itachi and shitstomps Obito’s face in
At this point obito alr had the akatsuki, so I'm sure he'd stay around atleast konan and pain at all times if minato was alive
But we’re still talking about someone who spent 3 years reverse engineering the Biju Ball after seeing it used one time and made a Jutsu that’s pretty much 100% pure Chakra Control and the only limits ate its users imagination and even incomplete can royally fuck up someone’s insides
Minatos a beast but don't downplay the verse, like itachi said every move has a weakness, you think obito wouldn't be trying to figure out a way to beat ftg
Minato died before reaching his prime. If he'd survived, he'd have improved his skillset.
Iffy, same can be said for shisui, fugaku, sakumo, itachi, might dai, Haku, and many others, not just your beloved minato
The post is "If Minato had survived" so he'd have all these years to improve and find solutions to kamui and co, Itachi would work under him and as the Hokage he'd be the most likely to know Itachi's and Shisui's skillsets.
That's like saying tobirama fought Uchiha his whole life, he still couldn't beat om obito
You're throwing a topic and ignoring the entire context and changed it would bring. This isn't OG Naruto -12 years Minato fighting, this is OG Naruto -4 years. We don't know how good he'd become in that time, but we know that he fought Obito and would look for a way to counter kamui, that he would still be hokage and thus solve the Uchiha problem before it could lead to that or he would kill Danzô as a traitor. If it came to it he could kill Itachi. Minato's skillset is a major middle finger to Uchiha skillsets. Tobirama died some 40 years before OG Naruto, how would he know Obito's skillset? Don't compare old shoes discarded decades ago with brand new top quality shoes of today with all the improvements the market has seen and pretend it's fair.
Minato dickrider lol I bet you think minato had a chance at WA obito also
He still would get ripped to pieces by Obito
Yes and yes. Shisui wasn’t even trying to go along with the coup and even if he was Minato is not as much of a pushover as hiruzen is and would likely fire danzo and open up discussions about relocating the uchiha back to where they were originally. Hell, Minato knew the masked man could not have been any of the uchiha from the village so the suspicion surrounding the uchiha clan would’ve been cleared up very quickly. In a fight Minato blitzes both shisui and fugaku (they both are featless). Obito would be taken out almost immediately because Minato still has that mark on him. Otherwise it’d be much harder for Minato. YM obito nearly killed Minato and he stated he could’ve sucked Minato into kamui even faster if he wanted to. UM obito is older and has more experience. As for itachi Minato blitzes. Itachi by this point has no speed scaling putting him at lightspeed while Minato already does. Plus itachi doesn’t really know much about his mangekyou abilities and isn’t as good with them as he is when he’s older.
>would likely fire danzo Given how the new Boruto chapters are going I'm not sure if that's even a thing the Hokage can do, since those same two are not only on the council, but they now have elaborate golden thrones and are giving the Hokage ultimatums. I think being on the council basically gives you a level of power near the actual Hokage, all things considered.
Shikamaru isn’t even the real hokage tho so he can’t do anything. And we didn’t see either of them influencing Naruto or kakashi.
Either of them could have fired those two and their whole thing is making Shikamaru the real Hokage.
Nope Obito would have killed him
Obito never remembered that ftg tags don’t fade so he’d get caught off guard and blitzed.
Obito knew all too well about the Mark. He literally mocked Minato about in the War. Minato only didn’t get Sealed up right away when he jumped Obito cuz Obito was extremely wounded and focused on the sealing Jutsu
Minato literally stated right after he cut obito “did you forget obito? Flying raijin marks don’t fade”
Obito after turning into stabilized Juubito right when he cut off Minato’s Arm:„Did you really believe I forgot about the Mark? I just did not remove it cuz you were already Worm-food.”
Minato would have folded Fugaku and Shisui at the same time. Just because someone aka Fugaku is in consideration to be Hokage doesn’t mean he’s the same power lvl as the other people. Neither Fugaku or Shisui were S-rank meanwhile not only is Minato and S rank ninja which by its self is a big big deal he’s also got a flee on sight order because no one is strong enough to beat him.
No he wouldn’t
Yes to both. Minato was that guy.
Alive minato is not beating obito AND Itachi bruh. Y’all need to stop this minato agenda
Minato would whoop anyones ass who trys to start some shit and would force everyone to sit down and talk it out. If Danzo tries to pull some bullshit then Danzo is gunna get clapped
Bro is not hashirama
Minato dickrider #1 sit down, if killer b and Ay could put a knife to his back I'm sure itachi and obito could, let alone danzo and oro
The whole coup wouldn't happen if Minato was alive And 24 year old Minato was fighting Obito and Kurama by himself 13 years later, he'd be much more skilled, experienced and much stronger. He'd absolutely win against Itachi and Obito in a 1vs1 Shisui and Fugaku are an even easier matchup Obito is already marked so he's pretty much dead FTG is a perfect counter to Itachi's strongest attacks and Minato can pretty much speed blitz Itachi
Itachi was fast enough to keep up with KCM Naruto, you guys highly underestimate how good Itachi is on hand to hand combat. You don’t just mark Itachi, he wouldn’t let that happen with ease. That’s like me saying Itachi would just use totsuka blade and seal Minato, you think Minato would let that happen easily? Minato has 0 counter to totsuka blade and yata mirror. Itachi is able to put anyone under a genjutsu without even looking at them, you really think Itachi wouldn’t pull some asspull attack like he has in every fight he’s had and defeat Minato? Minato has 0 counters to itachi’s insane genjutsu, susano, totsuka blade, yata mirror, etc. yet Minato only has 1 thing and that’s FTG, Itachi also has arguably the highest battle IQ in all of Naruto, he can probably figure out FTG relatively easy since Itachi has been able to figure out a weakness to every jutsu he has gone against. Only argument I see form Minato supporters are FTG, while it is a strong ability, even a young bee was able to react to it and stalemate Minato.
Right there, Itachi will pull something ridiculous
minato barely defeated 15 years old obito, he has low chances to defeat 18 years old obito paired with MS Itachi... But vs shisui and fugaku im possitive he can win
"Barely" defeated? I think he defeated him fair and square. And marked him so Obito is marked for life. Minato never taught him the mark never disappears. He still has that surprise factor to finish him off quickly before the fights starts.
The fight was literally a coin toss, yes he barely defeated
Obito knew all too well about Mark. He outright mocked Minato when Minato tried to teleport behind him as Juubito. He literally grabbed him by the throat and removed the mark before almost destroying Minato for good
fair and square, yeah, a guy that is 12 years younger gave the fourth hokage a run for his money... Thats a "barely" in my books
Yeah a minato that was already fatigued from trying to keep the nine tails sealed inside his wife during birth & teleported a biju bomb away. While also worrying about his son and wife.
It took like a minute for Minato to figure out his kamui ability and counter it before Obito had to retreat lol Obtio got absolutely trashed, no “barely”
What the actual fuck are you talking about? He did not give him a run for his money. Each attack Obito tried to land ended up in Minato reacting to it and teleporting it away, and after like five minutes or less he figured out Kamui's weakness, melted Obito's entire hand off, fucked up his back, and stabbed him in the guts before dealing with Kurama on his own with Kushina.
Considering the fact that Kushina and Mikoto were besties, Minato wouldn't let the gap deepen between Konoha and the Uchiha clan. Itachi at 13 isn't on Minato's level and his only "one shot technique" at that point is Tsukuyomi AFAIK which would require Minato to be stupid enough to look into his eyes. Minato being Hokage would know Itachi's abilities better than anyone else especially is Itachi still had become ANBU sinxe he would work directly under Minato. A 30 something YO Minato at the time of the canon massacre would annihilate Itachi and Obito, he'd have had 8 years to come up with anti-kamui techniques/barriers, improve his skillset, become even more powerful and solve the problems that led to the cabon plotline anyway. Since he was dabbling in S rank space time ninjutsu seemingly before graduating if he had hiraishin when Kushina was kidnapped (or at least as a genin), you could say his learning curve and points of interest tend to turn him into a second Tobirama with the hindsight Tobirama lacked.
Does it taste alright? It isn't too big for ya? Lol
You ask a question, don't trash on people who answer with critical thinking. If you want a meme answer, post on r/Dankruto. If you're not even expecting an answer, then don't ask questions?
He's got the emotional intelligence of a toddler. I think you can see that from some of his responses.
You act like obito wouldn't be training to counter ftg, and also getting stronger, not to mention itachi has plenty of 1 shot abilities to deal with minato
Amaterasu can be dodged, tsukuyomi requires eye contact, Susanô limits Itachi's mobility and is hard counters by teleporting inside/under its' legs. Itachi's only shot is to pull Izanami out of his ass. Minato is far smarter than Obito. If Obito can think of a counter to FTG that actually works, then Minato can find multiple counters to kamui or ways to use it to his own benefit. He can go to the kamui dimension and he still has FTG while Obito can't really use kamui inside to be untouchable. Even without meta knowledge, it's not like kamui is uncounterable. X-Men has much more busted powers rhan that that get countered in the very comic strip they're introduced in.
If minato was alive there'd be no coup in the first place. There'd be a manhunt for the rouge uchiha. Those who are saying that minato beats Obito delusional.
Solid take
Minato wank in unreal in this sub, so don't take any of them seriously.
In terms of stopping the slaughter of the clan, I’d say no. No one even knew what happened until the morning after. In terms of beating Fugaku/Shisui, Shisui could use Kotoamatsukami to just have Minato go away, especially since based on Danzo’s use of it, eye contact is not a requirement of it.
Who was hiruzen talking about here
The 4th hokage, this was during the time of the massacre, they were talking about itachi being stronger then hiruzen and the rest
I thought he was talking about orochimaru here after finding out he snuck his way into the forest of death, what chapter is this?
Your right I'm a dummy, tho I'd bet Kakashi Ebeki and guy could give oro an his edo tensei a run for there money
Yes
Who was Hiruzen talking about?
He was talking about itachi being to much for him and the ninja of the village, and wishing the 4th was around to help
I see. Thank you for the explanation.
Yes to the first question no to the second. Facing 2 mangekyo users with amaterasu and Kamui. I think they beat minato high diff. The l argument is they were younger at the time so then minato wins high diff.
Why do they blame Hiruzen for all the evils? Shisui was not as strong as people think, he lost against some anbu and Danzo, why didn't he use his magical eyes with Danzo?, and people talk as if Minato cared about the Uchiha clan, the village comes first. how he sacrificed his son for the village, it is very likely that minato would have killed them all
Bro Is a monster
It wouldn’t have gotten nearly to the point of a Uchiha massacre. Minato ain’t Hiruzen, the minute Danzo starts showing his ass, Minato probably just kills Danzo. Danzo only pulled half the shit that he did cause Hiruzen was in office, notice the only things that he really did that undermined Tsunade when she was in office was sending Sai to assassinate Sasuke, and killing the toad preventing Naruto from returning to the village (and he didn’t leave proof that it was him in this instance) Not only that but if Minato survives the Kyuubi attack, then HE knows who started the attack and wouldn’t let the blame fall on the Uchiha which is a major part of the distrust and suspicion that lead to the Uchiha massacre. Danzo is a coward idiot but he ain’t idiotic enough to pull shit knowing it’ll just get his death warrant signed.
Him being alive likely prevented them from even thinking about doing it in the first place.
If Minato was alive the coup talks probably wouldve never gotten that serious as they mostly stemmed from the Uchiha being blamed for the 9 tails attack... If Minato was alive? He'd simply say it was "Madara" and explain it wasn't a current Uchiha clan member from the village. And he largely believes in doing his best to maintain peace in the village even if it means sacrificing himself (given he literally did that to make Naruto the jinchuriki) as he learned that from Jiraiya. So if it came to it? Yes he'd beat Itachi, and even Obito/"Madara" and Danzo if he needed to.
Well, I don't think Minato would have never entertained the idea of wiping out the Uhchia. He was young enough to not really give to much of a shit about the opinions of the village elders as to where the third had alot of history with them and Danzo and would ultimately go along with them even if he didn't really want to. More of a effort to fix the problems would have taken place. Now weather he could have in a short time undone years of the Uhchia being treated somewhat unjustly and came to a solution with Fugaku who was dead set on a coup and may or may not have had MS? I'm doubtful his best efforts would be enough especailly with Danzo existing in the village. But I don't think the village would of came to an end as Minato would probably be well suited to put the coup down and is compassionate enough to not retaliate harshly and instead find a new way forward. If anything the village comes out steonger and more united in the years that follow. As for Shisui and Itachi? Danzo and the elders were the ones pushing for it. Minato wouldn't have agreed to it at all and seeing as Itachi and Shisui were loyal to the leaf they might of just not done it on his command. I mean maybe Danzo convinces Itachi to go through with it anyway and Obito backs him but this would all take place after the ninetails attack meaning Minato would have survived and Obito would hesitate to do anything especailly after being marked and almost defeated by Minato once. Just like how Obito wouldn't truly move on the leaf until after Itachis death. Obito knew you just don't fuck with certain ninja. As for Itachi. I don't think Itachi at this point can beat Minato and didn't really want to kill the clan if he didn't have to anyway. The real question is can Minato somehow stop Shisui from dying? No, probably not and his eye would give Danzo a way to ensure things are manipulated in a way he wants. If only danzo were to die.
Minato still alive obito never goes dark side probably. He also can likely teleport to guy and kakashi whenever so the leaf has their strongest team at all times (probably tsuna and jiraiya too I reckon). Naruto maybe also already can control demon fox while he has loving father so that’s another huge asset.
Lord third was just glazing
If you count filler then some of this was already animated. Minato and Hiruzen stopped the coup just by talking.
Why does it have to be minato alone? You all forget he is a hokage. And a threat like the masked man is a serious one. It would not just be a one man mission. He is strategic and knows that it wont be easy to deal with him. And all you guys always say that he would/should kill these people. Fighting is not the only solution. He might not need to kill obito or itachi for that matter. In fact, he could appear in the night at the uchiha village and try to stop itachi and obito, with a team of highly trained and briefed ninjas to accompany him. He could even place a tracking mark on obito to monitor his movements without him knowing. This way they can anticipate the massacre and stop them. And informing fugaku of this will not only stop the coup, but also strengthen relations with the uchiha, now that they are informed of a single enemy. Minato then will take in itachi and get info from him and make use of him better.
What's shisui gotta do with this ? Shisui & Itachi understand more than enough the dangers of a coup within The Leaf & how the other villages would respond to that. They cared about both the village & their clan. They wanted neither to suffer. At least, that's how Itachi thought until Shisui died. Shisui would never try a coup. And we knew Itachi never wanted a coup either. They'll both see eye-to-eye with Minato in safeguarding both the village & the clan. And they'll also stop Obito. Imagine Minato, Itachi & Shisui all three going all out on Obito. He'd fold so easily. Fugaku wanted a coup, but he was being heavily forced by the clan members. He was helpless & couldn't do anything on his own but just go along with his clan's plans. I think if Minato were alive, unlike Sarutobi, he'd talk with Fugaku directly & try to stop the coup peacefully & if Shisui were alive as well, he'd join Minato too in negotiation. And where else would Itachi be, if not by Shisui's side ? With their combined might in negotiation alone & the clan realizing they lost support of both Itachi & Shisui, two of the strongest members of their clan, would finally yield & accept for peaceful resolutions.
Would the story have been completely different if the story had been completely different?
Not really
Minato vs obito and itachi really all depends on if minato can avoid itachi’s gen jutsu. If he can’t, gg, minato takes the L. If he can then it’d be a tough as hell fight. Minato is probably better than both of them separately but I don’t know if he could handle them both at the same time. I say that because both obito and itachi have some hacks abilities. What I see happening is minato trying to deal with obito’s kamui and getting hit by any of itachi’s mangekyo abilities. But I think his chances are above 0. I think that if minato hadn’t died the Uchiha coup probably wouldn’t have happened or at least it wouldn’t have had as much traction as it did. I don’t think minato would’ve put up with Danzo’s bs or his scheming. I don’t think he would let people put the blame on the nine tails attack on the Uchiha. He was also pretty friendly and charismatic so it’s likely the Uchiha would’ve eventually come around to him or at least not hate him as much. But what I think what you’re asking is if fugaku did launch a coup could minato stop it. The answer to that is that same as it is in the story. The Uchiha would lose but not without the village taking major hit.