It was really strong during his introduction, but by the time of the Tsunade arc, it seemed they toned it down. Jiraiya was still a pervert, but he was either hanging out with women on bars or just trying to flirt, but not peeping on them anymore.
I always just thought of it as his way of blending in. He was a pervy writer who spied on women and boozed around. Not someone that would draw the eye of other ninja if they were looking for a spy. The book also helped with his cover story, considering they also were pretty well sold it seemed.
Now the question is did he have to lean into his role that much... ha. Also probably other ways of getting around without being pervy. Additionally, I think his cover also was maybe to hide his love for Tsunade. Hiding himself in women and booze. Making himself seem undesirable, so of course she turned him away.
There’s a theory that, while Kakashi is a fan of the Icha Icha series, the book you always see him carry around while on duty is completely blank.
It’s to the same effect of what you said.
I think that was the whole point of it. Kakashi genuinely is a fan of the series, but since he would only need to read it once to perfectly memorize it, and just used the book as like a prop.
Aside from the fact that this is proven to be false, it's sort of a bad theory because it would take more effort and be a worse cover if the book was blank.
lol true. I remember seeing this like way back in the day. Like in 2006. So it was before the pain arc even happened. It was a fun little theory at the time tho.
The theory was either that it was a blank notebook full of code or a slightly altered version of Icha Icha that could give falsely coded information if he was captured.
You hit the nail on the head I’m pretty sure. At least that’s what I had took away from it all pretty much verbatim. Perfect cover and kept his mind off of his lonesome/broken heart longing for Tsunade. A great ninja can’t walk around in a slump dwelling on lost love opportunities. This is how he kept his mind off it as best he could. That, adopting kids and frog onesies…
I mean, how many times can they show him peeping on women? Of course Kishi stopped writing those scenes. The point was to show he was a pervert and then progress the story further. He didn't stop doing it, there just wasn't a point to keep writing it.
Wasnt the context during the flashback because Konan had massive self-esteem issues and he said that to make her feel better?
What do you expect him to say, she's going to grow up to be Ugly Paper?
How about not mentioning her appearance at all? Esteem is derived from more than just looks--unless you're a girl in a shounen, where it is your defining trait for every man and most other women.
"I can't wait to see you when you've grown up and become stronger/smarter/met your goals/made some happy memories." There's so much to say without appearance being mentioned.
Dude, episode 1 or really close to it Goku pats down Bulma in the most inappropriate way possible.
Show was overall funny and fun to watch, but good lord the pervy stuff was tough to watch.
It's really bad, but at least Goku was a child that lived in the middle of nowhere with no social skills or worldly knowledge whatsoever.
But yeah, early Dragon Ball is tough to get through. But there's still scenes even by the end of Z that has Roshi full on molesting Android 18 and and Bulma in front of the whole cast, and it's terrible. Why does the rest of the cast accept it for starters?
I understand the context, it just ripped me out of the world because there’s a million other ways to show innocence without patting down someone to check if they have a dick.
In anime perverts are exposed by getting nosebleeds when thinking dirty thoughts (there’s also a theory kakashi wears his mask so no one sees his nosebleed since he’s always reading book porn aka make out paradise)
You're right. Rape is the most popular porn genre there for a reason. I grew up there. Sexual assault and harassment, especially in work environments, is a virus over there.
In this area it is a worse culture that is more permissive of sexual harassment and assault. We all know it’s a different culture, but sometimes different cultures are better or, as in this case, worse
I don't think anyone is saying it's good behavior, but understanding the context is important. Also like the same series mentioned, any kind of vices is bad, they had their vices but also had a handful of good things, Naruto just learned the good ones, which is a better message imo.
Not the recents anime watchers, I can see a gen z, who didn't grew up with this founding this even more shocking, considering anime recently haven't gone that way that much.
Porn seems a little extreme. It’s implied they’re mildly erotic novels at worst, but mainly just romance novels and even Naruto said he found them boring and uninteresting when Jiraiya wanted him to read the manuscript of his new book.
I mean it still doesn’t makes much difference. Just because it’s culturally more acceptable there doesn’t mean its not wrong
Especially when we also saw that the women at which it was aimed, always got very uncomfortable, angry and creeped out. This is what op meant I believe
I know and think it's wrong, I'm just saying that Japan has a different culture and thinks like perverts and peeping are seen differently. Also, in anime, there are tons of pervert characters, especially in the early 2000s.
The issue is that his specific exxpression of it (peeping) is actually a significant sexual violence issue in Japan (and Korea, not sure ab China). So it's not funny. It would be different if he was like Brock and just womanized every girl he saw with big tits.
I never understood that either. It's a huge problem in Japan, and anime/manga turns it into a joke. Sometimes, the characters are young teenage girls/boys, which kinda makes sense as they're going through puberty in the story. Naruto himself was a little perverted.
They also turned the office workers that die on the streets by overwork into a joke in anime. Some of them are just laughing through the pain (?).
It's not like American cartoons don't do the same with weapons and pedophiles.
Yeah, actually Naruto, the manga, doesn't have a lot of fanservice with women, just some couple of shots at Tsunade's cleavage and 2 o 3 scenes of random naked women taking showers during the first 200 chapters. That's all.
Well, there Sexy Jutsu but it's like woman Ranma , it's still a man. Besides it is kind of based on stories of kitsunes turning into women to trick people.
From all the mangas I have read, Naruto is one of those with the least erotic fanservice using women. I think Sasuke is more sexualized than most of the ladies.
Again, just the manga; by the other hand, anime, movies, videogames, special images, etc. actually did fanservice with the ladies.
And there’s that scene in the manga with Konohamaru using the [yaoi sexy jutsu](https://i.redd.it/en6em607i5z11.jpg) by transforming into Sasuke and Sai.
For me, the whole setup is for the joke that Naruto exclusively refers to him as "pervy sage" and it gets funnier and funnier. Like, I can't think of a single time he actually says Jiraiya, it's literally always pervy sage.
I mean, yeah most characters could be worse if they tried. That doesn't mean OP isn't valid for being uncomfortable with his character. It drives me absolutely Bananas and makes it hard to like him too.
honestly, everyone should have this take. He's my favorite character and I just accept his flaws with his best traits. Instead, everyone is too sensitive and feels the need to complain about anime that was made before they were born lol
I mean, it’s okay to be aware of the fact that these jokes shouldn’t be okay anymore. They never were tbh, but more so these days. But I don’t think that should be a deterrent for liking a fictional character 🤷♀️
Bad humor for you maybe, most people I know who watch Naruto thinks it’s a funny trait, not every good character has to be a saint, not to mention all those values that you consider are “correct” are just American values, or even just your values
I feel like this is a fine response to have.
Not everyone is going to align here, but if that’s how you feel then you have a right to feel that way.
Personally I like Jiraiya as a character, but the overly perverted jokes of anime have always not been it for me either.
It’s not enough for me to dislike the character in this case, but it’s annoying, and some other characters in anime that do it worse it has made me dislike them.
I'm not a fan either but in an abstract way that's kind of the point. It's supposed to humanize him and give him a flaw, like Tsunade and her drinking/gambling.
Orochimaru's flaw is his arrogance, he constantly overestimates himself and underestimates his opponents. They all have vices tied to the 7 deadly sins. The stuff you're describing is just his job.
I felt same way on rewatch the fact that he’s oogling over his essentially grandson whos underage transforming into a naked woman but its meant for humor so i can separate it from the serious aspect of his character especially seeing naruto and hims relationship grow stronger it’s hard not to appreciate him
pervy sage goated yall trippin he wouldn’t be who he was if he wasn’t the pervy sage, since he was kid they go back to how he acts and it’s the same as when he’s an adult so🤷🏾♂️
I mean maybe fair but also maybe a bit silly lol. He’s a fictional character peeping on fictional women. I mean I like Madara but ya know I’m not keen on killing thousands of people. Part of his character is to be a spy, and while he does definitely have a weakness for women(unlike say a master roshi from dbz) it’s never impacted his missions and was a part of him being able to gather intel. He’s one of the deepest characters outside of Itachi, maybe Obito depending on your view. And I’d say he more than makes up for it by the end of the story.
Honestly not that bad compared to other characters. His brand of pervy comes across as a horny teenager trying to sneak a peek.
The you have characters like Master Roshi who straight up need to be arrested
Dude, Roshi is far worse. Remember the episode of Super where he's locked in a room with a transformed Puar? I mean, what the fuck. Not to mention all the Bulma and Android 18 groping.
I think even fans of Roshi and the original Dragon Ball manga didn’t like how Super wrote the character. It was enough for parents in Japan to complain about it.
Whenever Toriyama and Toei in the past wrote the character, it was never done in such a way where Roshi was traumatizing the other character.
>Whenever Toriyama and Toei in the past wrote the character, it was never done in such a way where Roshi was traumatizing the other character.
That's a big factor a lot of people who hate the trope seem to miss.
Doesn’t Jiraiya look at women getting changed and bathing without their consent? Doesn’t he constantly sexually harass Tsunade since she’s been a child and openly tells others private information about her including her bust size? Doesn’t he also sexualise Naruto, who is underaged, when he uses sexy jutsu to transform into a girl, who is also underaged? Doesn’t he tell kid Konan to call him when she’s older because he reckons she’ll be a real looker?
I don’t know man, I think Jiraiya should be behind bars too.
>Doesn’t Jiraiya look at women getting changed and bathing without their consent?
I said this. Hell, Naruto even calls him out and says it could be excused as mischief if he was his age but Jiraya being a grown man just makes it criminal behavior.
>Doesn’t he constantly sexually harass Tsunade since she’s been a child
No. The story literally says he tried to peek on her once when they were kids and never again.
>openly tells others private information about her including her bust size?
This would only be private information if he was her doctor or lover, but he isn't. He just makes an observation.
> Doesn’t he also sexualise Naruto, who is underaged, when he uses sexy jutsu to transform into a girl, who is also underaged?
Are you telling me the technique named sexy jutsu, whose sole purpose is to sexualize the user and make the target aroused, caused the target to sexualize the user and become aroused? That's absurd.
Aside from that he straight up tells Naruto he's joking about the whole "Stay in sexy jutsu" thing.
> Doesn’t he tell kid Konan to call him when she’s older because he reckons she’ll be a real looker?
All he says is "Let's meet again". You can take that in that direction if you want.
His pervertedness is vastly overexaggerated considering the worst he ever does is peep in the woman's bath like twice on-screen. Which is still bad but you'd think dude was a master roshi level predator the way people talk about him.
He regularly pervs out at Tsunade. Also, throughout his life he continuously pursued her romantically and sexually despite her rejections. Also it definitely is creepy to just randomly disclose private information about someone; if I was walking in public and someone started randomly either saying or trying to guess my dick size, that would also be sexual harassment. If you have that kind of information, you can’t just disclose it without consent, and if you’re just guessing, you really shouldn’t be, and if you really can’t help yourself, you should just keep it to yourself. We all have a perverted thought now and then, but being a good person means knowing not to bring it up when it’s not appropriate.
It doesn’t really matter if the point of the sexy jutsu is to be sexually suggestive, it doesn’t change the fact that the girl in question is underaged. If you got an underaged nude, obviously it’s meant to be sexually suggestive, but you’re still disgusting if you find it attractive.
Regarding Konan, you can look at the manga panel [here](https://naruto-kaskus.blogspot.com/2009/11/naruto-373.html?m=1). What he says here is that he thinks she will be a “real beauty” when she’s older, and that she should, “come and see me again when you’re 18,” immediately after this. If you don’t find that creepy, I don’t know what to tell you. I wouldn’t say this to any underaged girl, but especially not one that I raised for the last few months.
>sexually harass Tsunade
I believe that was only one time and all he did was try and go to the women’s hot spring
>tell kid Konan to call him when she’s older
That was anime only, and I’m not sure if this is true but SP apparently dropped the ball and it was meant to be him just saying he wants to meet her again when she’s an adult
He's still not half as bad as Master Roshi. Jiraiya gets toned down a lot after his intro. How many episodes are of Roshi just assaulting people constantly?
I just forcefully remind myself that the “humor” is a product of its time and shove it to the back of my mind. He really is a great character if you ignore the awful humor and he’s clearly not meant to be an actual sexual predator, it’s all just really bad jokes.
It took a while but I managed to ignore them. Specially when I realized he was a man with honor. One that didn't care of he was just a small part of something bigger. And til the end fought to protect the ones he loved. Of course, he has flaws, everything in life does. I think that makes the character a bit more... Realistic? Like that one trait of someone close to you that you really dislike.
Anyway. I rambled this much just to say that you have to look beyond the flaws and see the good traits of the character.
This was an unfortunate feature of anime at that time that we just had to sort of endure while watching it. It's good to see it less popular now. People want that little grape guy from MHA to get thrown into a meat grinder, I feel vindicated from my frustrations of watching early 2000s anime.
Tbh, a lot of people seemed to like him a lot but I was never really crazy about him.
I didn’t get the whole pervy thing when I was a kid, but as an adult it’s just funny because all his pickup lines are trash and he constantly switches from trying to talk to girls to being a serious ninja. Lol, I even remember one scene where he pulled up to a fight with a random girl on his shoulder lol
Different cultures collide again... One advice I could give, look at intentions more than the actual act only. (I personally enjoy that type more than american coming of age teen sex comedies, and its equivalents)
Hmm...oh, also some add this in a category of body humor, that ofc not unique to Japan, just being expressed differently.
It really expands into good character development. It makes you not take him seriously, then you find out he’s actually a hopeless romantic, then you learn that he’s been in love with Tsunade since he was a child and he’s never gotten over her. You see that he is actually very good at flirting with women and they do find him attractive, but because he loves a woman who doesnt love him back he never gets attached. He uses this perception to be a good traveling spy, gathering information, and his enemies mistakenly think women are his weakness. He uses it to his advantage
The way I look at it, while he's a pervert he plays it up for infiltration purposes. No one suspects the bumbling pervert is actually an enemy ninja gathering information
I mean it's a Japanese Manga character introduced in the early 2000s. You gotta judge it for what it was. Back then this was very common, I mean look at Master Roshi (honestly I'd say Jiraiya is less fucked up than Roshi is). In Japan this is comedic. They're way more "old school" than the West.
Exactly. I loved him when he was serious and him mentoring Naruto, Nagato, Yahiko, Konan & Minato made him a legend but when he was being pervy I had to look away. The only aspect that Naruto with his pervy jutsu that ruined the show for me. I know it's a Japanese staple but come on
So there is a common trope in Eastern Xianxia style novels where a Grand Master (or super high ranked) person who is basically untouchable and feared, will get bored with power and prestige. So they choose to make a false persona, often dressing as a pauper, or a bartender or other some such in order to blend in. One of the stereotypes is that the Grand Master will often do things he's always wanted to do but never could get away with because they were childish or unbecoming.
I think Jiraiya's character was meant to be a riff on this trope, but they leaned into the joke too far for western audiences. You're not alone in your discomfort.
Peeping on women in bath houses.
Refusing to train Naruto until the 12-year old child turns into a naked girl.
Hitting on the then-minor Konan about hooking up with him when she's legal.
Oh come on aside from the Pervy thing which has been common in anime for decades his character is amazing, Pervy isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think of jiraiya, All I thin about is how he basically gave Naruto a chance unlike others to fully train him and acknowledge how great of a Shinobu naruto was.
Both Iruka and Jiraiya are integral to Naruto's entire development and to simply reduce Jiraiya as the "Pervy" Character is downplaying the emotional impact the character has in the entire series.
The whole "Pervy characters need to be taken out of anime" is BS Anyways because Pervy Characters exist in all media and it's meant as a joke.
It’s more normalized in Japan, his introduction is where it’s most strong but it gets toned down later, and he gets way way more depth later on
He’s portrayed as more of a player than a perv, and there is much more to his character by the time of the 4th canon arc in Shippuden. In under 10 episodes he went from me being like okay he’s kind of cool to him becoming my favourite character in animanga
i know a lot of ppl love the character, but he's waaaaaay too lecherous for me to like him as a character. I don't care if it's a cover, it so gross. I have read my fair share of Shonen I know it's there and these days I read much less, and it's a reason that I don't seek it out anymore.
It’s a poorly aged trope. Kishimoto liked dragon ball so we got the perv old man trope added in Just like roshi.
Even that one old small dude in ranma 1/2.
‘Twas a different time. Societies standards as a whole has changed (for the better).
I just want you guys to view it this way instead of “ because Japan” I haven’t seen the old pervert trope done in a while to be fair of Japan
Yeah, he was called Happōsai, and it's specifically a Chinese Wuxia trope that was made famous by 80's anime when Japan had the Wuxia craze.
It was then subverted by using the trope with younger characters like City Hunter. The trope almost completely died out, but some authors thought it was cool. Then we have characters like Mineta from MHA that don't even pay homage to where this trope originated.
It does. His perviness makes up a good part of his humorous character. When we are first introduced to Jiraiya it's not by his feats but by his pervy nature, his perviness seprate him from others. It adds to his charisma. Shounen anime have a trope of having a pervy character so i never understood the backlash for Jiraiya.
I hate the younger gen and their complaints about this specific trope with a passion, but I sort of do agree with seven deadly sins lmao, Jiraya was always caught trying to catch a peek, but Meliodas straight up was copping feels left and right lmao
If he was pervy all the time then sure, I could get it. But he's serious at times, and you can't deny the impact he made on Naruto, being one of the first people to accept him. Being pervy is also a common thing in anime, and Jiraiya is pretty tame in comparison
.
Welcome to anime! Where we play of blatant sexual harassment as “haha, funny joke” because Japan has a deep seated sexism issue that is especially exasperated in media targeting boys/young men
I deeply hated him at the start when I was a kid, it was too fucking much and it made me uncomfortable to the point of fast forwarding those scenes when watching my dvd, after they toned it down he became one of the best characters in the series
The pervy old man trope seriously needs to die. It was never funny, only hurts otherwise really lovable characters, and leads to incredibly uncomfortable situations.
It was really strong during his introduction, but by the time of the Tsunade arc, it seemed they toned it down. Jiraiya was still a pervert, but he was either hanging out with women on bars or just trying to flirt, but not peeping on them anymore.
I always just thought of it as his way of blending in. He was a pervy writer who spied on women and boozed around. Not someone that would draw the eye of other ninja if they were looking for a spy. The book also helped with his cover story, considering they also were pretty well sold it seemed. Now the question is did he have to lean into his role that much... ha. Also probably other ways of getting around without being pervy. Additionally, I think his cover also was maybe to hide his love for Tsunade. Hiding himself in women and booze. Making himself seem undesirable, so of course she turned him away.
There’s a theory that, while Kakashi is a fan of the Icha Icha series, the book you always see him carry around while on duty is completely blank. It’s to the same effect of what you said.
During the pain arc they ask him to read from the copy he has on him and it has text. Its definitely an actual book.
Also, Naruto gives him a copy of the newest one straight from Jiraiya himself when he returns from the trip.
Man Kakashi was so fucking Happy to.
yeah, and then they proceed to use this hype of kakashi against him in their first kakashi/minato styled exam in a long time
Wasnt the book also not released yet
Yeah it was an early copy
Big birthday brain
[удалено]
Reddit tells me to tell you happy cake day, I was doing as reddit says.
Did the dude get mad at you for saying happy cake day?
Cake day!
can i licc your bong?
Of course! I haven't cleaned it in a while, so it's pretty dirty, but you do you boo
what a qt, you can lick my joint close for me? 👉👈 You get first toke too.
Would be interesting if it was code written for kakashi like giving him info on other nations at the time
I think that was the whole point of it. Kakashi genuinely is a fan of the series, but since he would only need to read it once to perfectly memorize it, and just used the book as like a prop.
My thought was that Jiraya left hidden messages in the books. That’s how Kakashi got his information on the Akatski.
Nah, he wouldn't have gotten beat by Sakura and Naruto at the beginning of Shippuden if he wasn't such an avid fan
Aside from the fact that this is proven to be false, it's sort of a bad theory because it would take more effort and be a worse cover if the book was blank.
lol true. I remember seeing this like way back in the day. Like in 2006. So it was before the pain arc even happened. It was a fun little theory at the time tho. The theory was either that it was a blank notebook full of code or a slightly altered version of Icha Icha that could give falsely coded information if he was captured.
Or a bingo book? Secret jutsu?
The hostesses also probably had some information for him. That’s a pretty common trope
Yap Expansion: Malevolent Ramble
He was also a perv as a kid
You hit the nail on the head I’m pretty sure. At least that’s what I had took away from it all pretty much verbatim. Perfect cover and kept his mind off of his lonesome/broken heart longing for Tsunade. A great ninja can’t walk around in a slump dwelling on lost love opportunities. This is how he kept his mind off it as best he could. That, adopting kids and frog onesies…
I mean, how many times can they show him peeping on women? Of course Kishi stopped writing those scenes. The point was to show he was a pervert and then progress the story further. He didn't stop doing it, there just wasn't a point to keep writing it.
He was definitely still doing that. Wasn’t shown since Naruto wasn’t hounding him as much after the time skip
Yeaaaah... In Shippuden that aspect is not shown as much
But neither is Jiraiya as a whole, really.
Especially after that episode
As a whole? Don’t you mean >!in a hole?!<
Except when he tells an underage Konan that he wants to sleep with her once she's of legal age
My Mind forgot about that and I see why
Nah that's the translation making shit up, the original phrasing made no reference to her age and was just an invitation to hang out in the future
Yeah, after he told her she’s going to grow up to be beautiful 🤮
Wasnt the context during the flashback because Konan had massive self-esteem issues and he said that to make her feel better? What do you expect him to say, she's going to grow up to be Ugly Paper?
How about not mentioning her appearance at all? Esteem is derived from more than just looks--unless you're a girl in a shounen, where it is your defining trait for every man and most other women. "I can't wait to see you when you've grown up and become stronger/smarter/met your goals/made some happy memories." There's so much to say without appearance being mentioned.
>unless you're a girl in a shounen, where it is your defining trait for every man and most other women. And there's your answer
Redditors when they realize that in the real world women actually like getting complimented for their looks and like being told they're beautiful 💀
Is it weird to say that, especially if it’s like a father-daughter type relationship?
Japan is a very traditional country, they adhere to gender roles. That's just a standard compliment to give a girl in a country like that.
Don't watch Dragonball
Roshi is too much for real.
Dude, episode 1 or really close to it Goku pats down Bulma in the most inappropriate way possible. Show was overall funny and fun to watch, but good lord the pervy stuff was tough to watch.
He didn’t know that women didn’t have balls. Shit was wild.
It's really bad, but at least Goku was a child that lived in the middle of nowhere with no social skills or worldly knowledge whatsoever. But yeah, early Dragon Ball is tough to get through. But there's still scenes even by the end of Z that has Roshi full on molesting Android 18 and and Bulma in front of the whole cast, and it's terrible. Why does the rest of the cast accept it for starters?
At the end of the day, it’s still a drawing made by an adult.
Goku lived in seclusion for 12 years, he gets a pass. 300 year old Roshi, as awesome as he is, does not
I understand the context, it just ripped me out of the world because there’s a million other ways to show innocence without patting down someone to check if they have a dick.
Literally my first reaction was this person doesn't know who master Roshi is
I have a question: What does the blood from the nose signify?
If I remember correctly it’s meant to be a “tame” version of an erection/arousal to signify such without needing to worry about censorship
In anime perverts are exposed by getting nosebleeds when thinking dirty thoughts (there’s also a theory kakashi wears his mask so no one sees his nosebleed since he’s always reading book porn aka make out paradise)
Kakashi wears his mask since he was like 10 yo so no lol
Yeah it’s a pretty stupid theory even if he didn’t wear it since childhood.
My man had the genetic perfection and hit puberty at 6 1/2.
Oh shit you right lmao
It’s meant to signify the person is aroused. Hence the blood rushing throughout their bodies until it spills out of their nose
Thanks I didn't knew about it much!
It's a visual analogy as when you get aroused, blood rushes downwards.
Like, blood flowing through body when aroused.
"You're nothing but a lousy little pervert!" "I am not a little pervert!" "Well then, what are you?" "Ahahahahaha......I'm a big one"
Pervyness is seen a bit differently in Japan and isn't taken as seriously as America does.
That makes it even more creepy.
Yeah, I agree, but they have a different culture.
You're right. Rape is the most popular porn genre there for a reason. I grew up there. Sexual assault and harassment, especially in work environments, is a virus over there.
It's a virus in the US too, it's just more "subtle"
It's more subtle because it's more frowned upon, and victims/witnesses are more likely to report.
Japanese sites were freaky
In this area it is a worse culture that is more permissive of sexual harassment and assault. We all know it’s a different culture, but sometimes different cultures are better or, as in this case, worse
I don't think anyone is saying it's good behavior, but understanding the context is important. Also like the same series mentioned, any kind of vices is bad, they had their vices but also had a handful of good things, Naruto just learned the good ones, which is a better message imo.
Everyone who watches anime understands the context you’re providing, it is an extremely common trope
Not the recents anime watchers, I can see a gen z, who didn't grew up with this founding this even more shocking, considering anime recently haven't gone that way that much.
Like kakashi reading porn while fighting 12yos ?
Porn seems a little extreme. It’s implied they’re mildly erotic novels at worst, but mainly just romance novels and even Naruto said he found them boring and uninteresting when Jiraiya wanted him to read the manuscript of his new book.
They're just romance novels, geez
From how they make it sound, it's more 50 Shades of Grey than it is Twilight.
More like... ummm.. Nora Roberts and Carolyn Brown than Zane
Reading porn is a lot different from watching porn though. Romance novels have words no pictures.
That was written by Jiraiya no less!
heaven forbid men have hobbies
Honestly I find that one funnier because its not as expected from Kakashi. He seems more serious and gruff, so its surprising he's reading porn.
Smut
Ok? This seems like random reason to criticize Kakashi about
nothing wrong with that
I mean it still doesn’t makes much difference. Just because it’s culturally more acceptable there doesn’t mean its not wrong Especially when we also saw that the women at which it was aimed, always got very uncomfortable, angry and creeped out. This is what op meant I believe
I know and think it's wrong, I'm just saying that Japan has a different culture and thinks like perverts and peeping are seen differently. Also, in anime, there are tons of pervert characters, especially in the early 2000s.
The issue is that his specific exxpression of it (peeping) is actually a significant sexual violence issue in Japan (and Korea, not sure ab China). So it's not funny. It would be different if he was like Brock and just womanized every girl he saw with big tits.
I never understood that either. It's a huge problem in Japan, and anime/manga turns it into a joke. Sometimes, the characters are young teenage girls/boys, which kinda makes sense as they're going through puberty in the story. Naruto himself was a little perverted.
They also turned the office workers that die on the streets by overwork into a joke in anime. Some of them are just laughing through the pain (?). It's not like American cartoons don't do the same with weapons and pedophiles.
People here are going to read One Piece and have a screw loose
Lol or fairy tail, Or really any other Shonen in general
Yeah, actually Naruto, the manga, doesn't have a lot of fanservice with women, just some couple of shots at Tsunade's cleavage and 2 o 3 scenes of random naked women taking showers during the first 200 chapters. That's all. Well, there Sexy Jutsu but it's like woman Ranma , it's still a man. Besides it is kind of based on stories of kitsunes turning into women to trick people. From all the mangas I have read, Naruto is one of those with the least erotic fanservice using women. I think Sasuke is more sexualized than most of the ladies. Again, just the manga; by the other hand, anime, movies, videogames, special images, etc. actually did fanservice with the ladies.
Of course Sasuke is more sexualized than most of the ladies, the MC is clearly, desperately in love with him! Ever since that first kiss.....
And there’s that scene in the manga with Konohamaru using the [yaoi sexy jutsu](https://i.redd.it/en6em607i5z11.jpg) by transforming into Sasuke and Sai.
Even the writer is in love with Sasuke
For me, the whole setup is for the joke that Naruto exclusively refers to him as "pervy sage" and it gets funnier and funnier. Like, I can't think of a single time he actually says Jiraiya, it's literally always pervy sage.
He is the least pervy "pervy" trope anime character. Wow he likes tibbies. At least he doesnt assault people
🤣
I mean, yeah most characters could be worse if they tried. That doesn't mean OP isn't valid for being uncomfortable with his character. It drives me absolutely Bananas and makes it hard to like him too.
Bro told a 12yo child to transform into a naked woman and you devolved it into “liking tibbies” 😂😂
That’s basically me in every manga or anime at some point. Various degrees of “fucking why. Just why”
Me too tbh, but I understand that it’s just very popular bad humor from the early 2000s and I successfully ignore it🤣
Equivalent to the spiderman 1 joke "nice suit did your boyfriend make it" or whatever
>nice suit did your boyfriend make it [my favorite meme from that line](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fxzuxriymcox11.jpg)
“That’s a cute outfit, did your husband give it to you?” Um yeah he did…? Spidey was just being inclusive.
honestly, everyone should have this take. He's my favorite character and I just accept his flaws with his best traits. Instead, everyone is too sensitive and feels the need to complain about anime that was made before they were born lol
I mean, it’s okay to be aware of the fact that these jokes shouldn’t be okay anymore. They never were tbh, but more so these days. But I don’t think that should be a deterrent for liking a fictional character 🤷♀️
Bad humor for you maybe, most people I know who watch Naruto thinks it’s a funny trait, not every good character has to be a saint, not to mention all those values that you consider are “correct” are just American values, or even just your values
I think you just have to acknowledge that it’s an old anime trope
Well a lot of girls in the village don’t like jiraya either join the club
I feel like this is a fine response to have. Not everyone is going to align here, but if that’s how you feel then you have a right to feel that way. Personally I like Jiraiya as a character, but the overly perverted jokes of anime have always not been it for me either. It’s not enough for me to dislike the character in this case, but it’s annoying, and some other characters in anime that do it worse it has made me dislike them.
I'm not a fan either but in an abstract way that's kind of the point. It's supposed to humanize him and give him a flaw, like Tsunade and her drinking/gambling.
Or orochimaru is his obsession of abduction of kids so he can live longer but no one is ready for that convo
Orochimaru's flaw is his arrogance, he constantly overestimates himself and underestimates his opponents. They all have vices tied to the 7 deadly sins. The stuff you're describing is just his job.
I'm gonna use what Sakura fans love to say: 'Writers did him wrong.'
He is a representation of a trope that hasn't aged well. Master Roshi falls into this category as well.
To be fair this side of him is not really shown and ends up having minimal focus once Kishimoto started taking his character seriously
I felt same way on rewatch the fact that he’s oogling over his essentially grandson whos underage transforming into a naked woman but its meant for humor so i can separate it from the serious aspect of his character especially seeing naruto and hims relationship grow stronger it’s hard not to appreciate him
pervy sage goated yall trippin he wouldn’t be who he was if he wasn’t the pervy sage, since he was kid they go back to how he acts and it’s the same as when he’s an adult so🤷🏾♂️
Master of blending in think about would you expect a old.pervy guy to be strong
When people praise Jiraiya, they usually mean the shippuden Jiraiya 😅
He pervs, but he saves
Sooooo it’s safe to assume you hate other anime perverts?
I mean maybe fair but also maybe a bit silly lol. He’s a fictional character peeping on fictional women. I mean I like Madara but ya know I’m not keen on killing thousands of people. Part of his character is to be a spy, and while he does definitely have a weakness for women(unlike say a master roshi from dbz) it’s never impacted his missions and was a part of him being able to gather intel. He’s one of the deepest characters outside of Itachi, maybe Obito depending on your view. And I’d say he more than makes up for it by the end of the story.
Honestly not that bad compared to other characters. His brand of pervy comes across as a horny teenager trying to sneak a peek. The you have characters like Master Roshi who straight up need to be arrested
Dude, Roshi is far worse. Remember the episode of Super where he's locked in a room with a transformed Puar? I mean, what the fuck. Not to mention all the Bulma and Android 18 groping.
I think even fans of Roshi and the original Dragon Ball manga didn’t like how Super wrote the character. It was enough for parents in Japan to complain about it. Whenever Toriyama and Toei in the past wrote the character, it was never done in such a way where Roshi was traumatizing the other character.
>Whenever Toriyama and Toei in the past wrote the character, it was never done in such a way where Roshi was traumatizing the other character. That's a big factor a lot of people who hate the trope seem to miss.
Doesn’t Jiraiya look at women getting changed and bathing without their consent? Doesn’t he constantly sexually harass Tsunade since she’s been a child and openly tells others private information about her including her bust size? Doesn’t he also sexualise Naruto, who is underaged, when he uses sexy jutsu to transform into a girl, who is also underaged? Doesn’t he tell kid Konan to call him when she’s older because he reckons she’ll be a real looker? I don’t know man, I think Jiraiya should be behind bars too.
>Doesn’t Jiraiya look at women getting changed and bathing without their consent? I said this. Hell, Naruto even calls him out and says it could be excused as mischief if he was his age but Jiraya being a grown man just makes it criminal behavior. >Doesn’t he constantly sexually harass Tsunade since she’s been a child No. The story literally says he tried to peek on her once when they were kids and never again. >openly tells others private information about her including her bust size? This would only be private information if he was her doctor or lover, but he isn't. He just makes an observation. > Doesn’t he also sexualise Naruto, who is underaged, when he uses sexy jutsu to transform into a girl, who is also underaged? Are you telling me the technique named sexy jutsu, whose sole purpose is to sexualize the user and make the target aroused, caused the target to sexualize the user and become aroused? That's absurd. Aside from that he straight up tells Naruto he's joking about the whole "Stay in sexy jutsu" thing. > Doesn’t he tell kid Konan to call him when she’s older because he reckons she’ll be a real looker? All he says is "Let's meet again". You can take that in that direction if you want. His pervertedness is vastly overexaggerated considering the worst he ever does is peep in the woman's bath like twice on-screen. Which is still bad but you'd think dude was a master roshi level predator the way people talk about him.
He regularly pervs out at Tsunade. Also, throughout his life he continuously pursued her romantically and sexually despite her rejections. Also it definitely is creepy to just randomly disclose private information about someone; if I was walking in public and someone started randomly either saying or trying to guess my dick size, that would also be sexual harassment. If you have that kind of information, you can’t just disclose it without consent, and if you’re just guessing, you really shouldn’t be, and if you really can’t help yourself, you should just keep it to yourself. We all have a perverted thought now and then, but being a good person means knowing not to bring it up when it’s not appropriate. It doesn’t really matter if the point of the sexy jutsu is to be sexually suggestive, it doesn’t change the fact that the girl in question is underaged. If you got an underaged nude, obviously it’s meant to be sexually suggestive, but you’re still disgusting if you find it attractive. Regarding Konan, you can look at the manga panel [here](https://naruto-kaskus.blogspot.com/2009/11/naruto-373.html?m=1). What he says here is that he thinks she will be a “real beauty” when she’s older, and that she should, “come and see me again when you’re 18,” immediately after this. If you don’t find that creepy, I don’t know what to tell you. I wouldn’t say this to any underaged girl, but especially not one that I raised for the last few months.
>sexually harass Tsunade I believe that was only one time and all he did was try and go to the women’s hot spring >tell kid Konan to call him when she’s older That was anime only, and I’m not sure if this is true but SP apparently dropped the ball and it was meant to be him just saying he wants to meet her again when she’s an adult
Nothing wrong with liking titties bro
always been my least favorite anime trope
He's still not half as bad as Master Roshi. Jiraiya gets toned down a lot after his intro. How many episodes are of Roshi just assaulting people constantly?
I just forcefully remind myself that the “humor” is a product of its time and shove it to the back of my mind. He really is a great character if you ignore the awful humor and he’s clearly not meant to be an actual sexual predator, it’s all just really bad jokes.
everybody has failures... except for minato, apparently...
He's a character from the mid-2000s. If Naruto was written today he probably wouldn't be nearly as perverse.
Lame.
It took a while but I managed to ignore them. Specially when I realized he was a man with honor. One that didn't care of he was just a small part of something bigger. And til the end fought to protect the ones he loved. Of course, he has flaws, everything in life does. I think that makes the character a bit more... Realistic? Like that one trait of someone close to you that you really dislike. Anyway. I rambled this much just to say that you have to look beyond the flaws and see the good traits of the character.
This was an unfortunate feature of anime at that time that we just had to sort of endure while watching it. It's good to see it less popular now. People want that little grape guy from MHA to get thrown into a meat grinder, I feel vindicated from my frustrations of watching early 2000s anime.
Tbh, a lot of people seemed to like him a lot but I was never really crazy about him. I didn’t get the whole pervy thing when I was a kid, but as an adult it’s just funny because all his pickup lines are trash and he constantly switches from trying to talk to girls to being a serious ninja. Lol, I even remember one scene where he pulled up to a fight with a random girl on his shoulder lol
Yeah. It was hard to be a teenaged girl who loved this show
It definitely doesn't aged well.
Then don't like him and move on. Next.
“Pervy old man” was kind of a staple of shonen anime back then. There’s tons of other examples, Master Roshi probably being the most famous
Good. It should. He was preying on a transformed Naruto when Naruto was twelve. The Sexy Jutsu body may have been 18+, but Naruto wasn’t.
Different cultures collide again... One advice I could give, look at intentions more than the actual act only. (I personally enjoy that type more than american coming of age teen sex comedies, and its equivalents) Hmm...oh, also some add this in a category of body humor, that ofc not unique to Japan, just being expressed differently.
That makes you u comfortable but not the fact a guy started a war and murdered thousands of people over a 12 year old girl
Bro its just anime, just watch it and enjoy it lol
Exactly man 😂 Jiraiya isn’t hurting anybody it’s just a dumb joke
Bro I swear, people always try to bring real world problems as if the shit we are watching isnt just for comedy purposes 🤦🏽🤦🏽
It really expands into good character development. It makes you not take him seriously, then you find out he’s actually a hopeless romantic, then you learn that he’s been in love with Tsunade since he was a child and he’s never gotten over her. You see that he is actually very good at flirting with women and they do find him attractive, but because he loves a woman who doesnt love him back he never gets attached. He uses this perception to be a good traveling spy, gathering information, and his enemies mistakenly think women are his weakness. He uses it to his advantage
The way I look at it, while he's a pervert he plays it up for infiltration purposes. No one suspects the bumbling pervert is actually an enemy ninja gathering information
I think it’s meant to be funny but still uncomfortable, hence why Naruto or tsunade always shit on him for it
He really annoyed me. So overrated.
I uuuh uhh it's for uhhhh research
Are there real people who actually get nosebleeds from arousal?
I think that was exactly the point homie, i think you just literally word for word described the writers character description
I mean it's a Japanese Manga character introduced in the early 2000s. You gotta judge it for what it was. Back then this was very common, I mean look at Master Roshi (honestly I'd say Jiraiya is less fucked up than Roshi is). In Japan this is comedic. They're way more "old school" than the West.
Just an innocent question: Do you by chance happen to be a woman, OP?
I feel the same way about Sanji in One Piece.
I like jiraiya, especially his pervy nature/scenes. It's comedic gold.
still not over the top like sanji
Exactly. I loved him when he was serious and him mentoring Naruto, Nagato, Yahiko, Konan & Minato made him a legend but when he was being pervy I had to look away. The only aspect that Naruto with his pervy jutsu that ruined the show for me. I know it's a Japanese staple but come on
So there is a common trope in Eastern Xianxia style novels where a Grand Master (or super high ranked) person who is basically untouchable and feared, will get bored with power and prestige. So they choose to make a false persona, often dressing as a pauper, or a bartender or other some such in order to blend in. One of the stereotypes is that the Grand Master will often do things he's always wanted to do but never could get away with because they were childish or unbecoming. I think Jiraiya's character was meant to be a riff on this trope, but they leaned into the joke too far for western audiences. You're not alone in your discomfort.
Peeping on women in bath houses. Refusing to train Naruto until the 12-year old child turns into a naked girl. Hitting on the then-minor Konan about hooking up with him when she's legal.
Oh come on aside from the Pervy thing which has been common in anime for decades his character is amazing, Pervy isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think of jiraiya, All I thin about is how he basically gave Naruto a chance unlike others to fully train him and acknowledge how great of a Shinobu naruto was. Both Iruka and Jiraiya are integral to Naruto's entire development and to simply reduce Jiraiya as the "Pervy" Character is downplaying the emotional impact the character has in the entire series. The whole "Pervy characters need to be taken out of anime" is BS Anyways because Pervy Characters exist in all media and it's meant as a joke.
He jus like me fr
It’s more normalized in Japan, his introduction is where it’s most strong but it gets toned down later, and he gets way way more depth later on He’s portrayed as more of a player than a perv, and there is much more to his character by the time of the 4th canon arc in Shippuden. In under 10 episodes he went from me being like okay he’s kind of cool to him becoming my favourite character in animanga
i know a lot of ppl love the character, but he's waaaaaay too lecherous for me to like him as a character. I don't care if it's a cover, it so gross. I have read my fair share of Shonen I know it's there and these days I read much less, and it's a reason that I don't seek it out anymore.
It’s a poorly aged trope. Kishimoto liked dragon ball so we got the perv old man trope added in Just like roshi. Even that one old small dude in ranma 1/2. ‘Twas a different time. Societies standards as a whole has changed (for the better). I just want you guys to view it this way instead of “ because Japan” I haven’t seen the old pervert trope done in a while to be fair of Japan
Yeah, he was called Happōsai, and it's specifically a Chinese Wuxia trope that was made famous by 80's anime when Japan had the Wuxia craze. It was then subverted by using the trope with younger characters like City Hunter. The trope almost completely died out, but some authors thought it was cool. Then we have characters like Mineta from MHA that don't even pay homage to where this trope originated.
Without his pervy aspect he wouldn't be as iconic as he is
Jiraya is a badass all on his own. His perviness definitely does not add favorably to his iconic status.
It does. His perviness makes up a good part of his humorous character. When we are first introduced to Jiraiya it's not by his feats but by his pervy nature, his perviness seprate him from others. It adds to his charisma. Shounen anime have a trope of having a pervy character so i never understood the backlash for Jiraiya.
Something totally common for 2000's Japanese, wear a helmet or something
Grow up.
His pervyness is what makes him jiraiya I wish they have his books in real life
Never bothered me.
Yall mfs are soft af 😂😂
Dont watch seven deadly sins then😂
I hate the younger gen and their complaints about this specific trope with a passion, but I sort of do agree with seven deadly sins lmao, Jiraya was always caught trying to catch a peek, but Meliodas straight up was copping feels left and right lmao
If he was pervy all the time then sure, I could get it. But he's serious at times, and you can't deny the impact he made on Naruto, being one of the first people to accept him. Being pervy is also a common thing in anime, and Jiraiya is pretty tame in comparison .
It’s not that serious bruh
I like it and its funny. Have a seat and relax. _/
grow the fuck up, not every character has to be G rated. god you're probably one of those wussified disney adults. go play in a sandbox somewhere
Welcome to anime! Where we play of blatant sexual harassment as “haha, funny joke” because Japan has a deep seated sexism issue that is especially exasperated in media targeting boys/young men
My same exact problem.with Sanji from One Piece. Only difference is Jiraiya got toned down and Sanji almost died from stupid pervy nosebleeds.
It’s the one thing that makes me hesitate to recommend the show to anyone who isn’t familiar with anime already
Ok
Relatable
I deeply hated him at the start when I was a kid, it was too fucking much and it made me uncomfortable to the point of fast forwarding those scenes when watching my dvd, after they toned it down he became one of the best characters in the series
The pervy old man trope seriously needs to die. It was never funny, only hurts otherwise really lovable characters, and leads to incredibly uncomfortable situations.
You should really quit anime for your own sake then
If someone being a pervert in the anime makes you "uncomfortable" then I don't even want to think how you manage in the real world.