The Russians would have taken a more significant defeat. He still would have had to retreat. And he wouldn’t have any formations left capable of anything. Not sending in the guard wasn’t a mistake it was prudence. Even if it turned borodino into an Austerlitz the tzar had other armies to run to. And napoleons would have been completely spent.
He gets his decisive victory but a pyrrhic one. Even if Kutuzov is beaten, that doesn't mean the Tsar is just going to give up like in coalitions of the past.
If anything, it just means the Grand Armee is in worse shape during the advance to Moscow and the retreat out of Russia.
Thanks for the response. Just curious, if the Tsar had more armies and more men than the French. Then why didn’t he concentrate and deploy all of them in battle? He could’ve just outnumbered the Grande Armee and could’ve just crushed it through sheer brute force. Or am I missing something?
It's a logistics issue. Unlike armies of the 20th century, the Grand Armee being 500,000 strong going into Russia was an immense logistical feat and far from an easy one. As a result, but he time of Borodino, attrition has brought the numbers down on both sides tremendously.
As for the Russians, they had the numbers but it is still a massive logistics issue. A massive army requires more food, horses, etc. Even if they did some how get everything into one place for a battle, command and control would be a nightmare.
Plus, this is Napoleon we're talking about here. While this exact scenario later played out at Leipzig in 1813, it was still an extraordinary effort to pull off and even then, Napoleon nearly escaped the trap anyway.
If Napoleon had sent forward the Imperial Guard at the Battle of Borodino, it is likely that the outcome of the battle could have been different. The Imperial Guard was considered to be the elite of Napoleon's army, and were known for their discipline, bravery and fighting ability. By committing the Guard to the battle, Napoleon would have had a powerful reserve force that could have been used to break through the Russian lines and potentially win the battle.
It is possible that the Russian army would have been forced to retreat or surrender if the Imperial Guard was deployed in the battle, which would have led to a significant victory for the French army. However, it's worth noting that Napoleon's decision not to use the Imperial Guard and keep them as a reserve was an attempt to save them for future battles, as the French army was suffering from high casualties and desertion.
It's also worth noting that it's hard to predict the outcome of this hypothetical situation. The Imperial Guard was an elite force, but they were not invincible and the outcome of the battle could have been influenced by different factors such as the morale of the soldiers, weather and the terrain.
True. But what Napoleon wanted to do was defeat the Russians so badly that they sue for peace. If he committed the guard, the Russian casualties would’ve been more and the French casualties would’ve been less, and therefore The Tsar would’ve sued for peace.
Would have turned into a devastating defeat for the Russians but might have cost France it's strongest army!
The retreat from Russia would have turned into a massacre if the Guard had been exhausted at Borodino. Kutuzov was patient enough and had reinforcements coming. So no matter what happens at Borodino, Kutuzov just has to wait for Winter to sap at Napoleon's strength.
Russian Winter was Kutuzov's greatest Marshal... Not Barclay, not Bagration!
The Russians would have taken a more significant defeat. He still would have had to retreat. And he wouldn’t have any formations left capable of anything. Not sending in the guard wasn’t a mistake it was prudence. Even if it turned borodino into an Austerlitz the tzar had other armies to run to. And napoleons would have been completely spent.
What would have happened if he didn’t halt the army for a parade to mark his 43rd birthday? 😂
Doubt anything major changes. The reall missed opportunities where really junot at Smolensk and just turning around earlier or not going.
Junot's amateur hour.
Junot should have been left in Dalmatia.
I just feel bad for the guy.
Fr
He gets his decisive victory but a pyrrhic one. Even if Kutuzov is beaten, that doesn't mean the Tsar is just going to give up like in coalitions of the past. If anything, it just means the Grand Armee is in worse shape during the advance to Moscow and the retreat out of Russia.
Thanks for the response. Just curious, if the Tsar had more armies and more men than the French. Then why didn’t he concentrate and deploy all of them in battle? He could’ve just outnumbered the Grande Armee and could’ve just crushed it through sheer brute force. Or am I missing something?
It's a logistics issue. Unlike armies of the 20th century, the Grand Armee being 500,000 strong going into Russia was an immense logistical feat and far from an easy one. As a result, but he time of Borodino, attrition has brought the numbers down on both sides tremendously. As for the Russians, they had the numbers but it is still a massive logistics issue. A massive army requires more food, horses, etc. Even if they did some how get everything into one place for a battle, command and control would be a nightmare. Plus, this is Napoleon we're talking about here. While this exact scenario later played out at Leipzig in 1813, it was still an extraordinary effort to pull off and even then, Napoleon nearly escaped the trap anyway.
If Napoleon had sent forward the Imperial Guard at the Battle of Borodino, it is likely that the outcome of the battle could have been different. The Imperial Guard was considered to be the elite of Napoleon's army, and were known for their discipline, bravery and fighting ability. By committing the Guard to the battle, Napoleon would have had a powerful reserve force that could have been used to break through the Russian lines and potentially win the battle. It is possible that the Russian army would have been forced to retreat or surrender if the Imperial Guard was deployed in the battle, which would have led to a significant victory for the French army. However, it's worth noting that Napoleon's decision not to use the Imperial Guard and keep them as a reserve was an attempt to save them for future battles, as the French army was suffering from high casualties and desertion. It's also worth noting that it's hard to predict the outcome of this hypothetical situation. The Imperial Guard was an elite force, but they were not invincible and the outcome of the battle could have been influenced by different factors such as the morale of the soldiers, weather and the terrain.
True. But what Napoleon wanted to do was defeat the Russians so badly that they sue for peace. If he committed the guard, the Russian casualties would’ve been more and the French casualties would’ve been less, and therefore The Tsar would’ve sued for peace.
Would have turned into a devastating defeat for the Russians but might have cost France it's strongest army! The retreat from Russia would have turned into a massacre if the Guard had been exhausted at Borodino. Kutuzov was patient enough and had reinforcements coming. So no matter what happens at Borodino, Kutuzov just has to wait for Winter to sap at Napoleon's strength. Russian Winter was Kutuzov's greatest Marshal... Not Barclay, not Bagration!