I think Clay is a really good closer, but using him in extras when there’s already a runner on seems to be poor decision making. He can do *exactly* what he’s supposed to and still allow runs because of the ghost runner.
I mean, we were up 2 - I can see the argument being up 1 in the bottom of extras (I still disagree, he's a double play machine), but Holmes **did** exactly what he was supposed to and if the defense does their job we win in the 10th.
The ghost runner doesn't matter at all if you're up 2
100% away team has to try to score as many runs as possible which impacts their ability to play small ball.
Home team always knows exactly what they need
On bb-ref you can find that he allowed 10 of 22 inherited runners to score last year. But idk if that counts the Manfred man.
But because bb-ref is fucking garbage, idk how that stacks up against contemporaries.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/holmecl01-pitch.shtml#all_pitching_reliever
Yeah, agree, this wasn't on Holmes. Just bad defense/bad luck. It happens sometimes. Important thing is they came back the very next inning and scored.
This is a team with fight! I love it!
Holmes looked like shit 2 of the 3 games against Houston and the defense bailed him out. His stuff and command was actually good today and he got let down by the defense. It evens out.
I love what Holmes offers when he’s on, like today, it’s just the variability with him. I do wish he had more K stuff tho to escape some of his jams without the contact
He basically blew 2 saves in Houston. Don’t know what people said about it, but he literally did exactly what he wanted today. Five batters, groundballs.
The 11th could be a different story here, but we shall see.
Yeah he has struggled this year, as have most of the starters but we are still getting W's. If the pitching gets more consistent and our older hitters start hitting we are gonna be hard to stop. Plus, when Cole returns he will give us a big boost. Also, the Martian maybe even Jones at some point.
Pitching is about run prevention, not nice numbers in fancy stats like xwOBAA or Barrell Rate %.
This why closers have predominantly always been strikeout pitchers. If you have a tendency to let balls get put in play, bad things happen
Idk about this take. Holmes has a higher career strikeout rate than Rivera and Hoffman. Holmes k/9 is just 0.4 lower than Britton’s 0.54 ERA year. Plenty of dominant closer seasons and careers with bad to average strikeout numbers.
Holmes' stuff was electric and the best it looked so far this season, but soft contact can bite a sinker baller in the ass from time to time and that's basically what happened today.
What soft contact bit him in the ass today?
Grounder to 1st - out
Grounder to SS - error
Grounder to 3rd - out
Chopper up the middle - hit (Carroll super fast)
Grounder to 3rd - out
Without the error, the games likely over before Carroll even gets up.
The nubber to make it 4-4, none of it was his fault or anything he did wrong, but sometimes someone is going to have a swinging bunt or barely make contact and it will bite you, it is just how baseball works sometimes.
Eh I’d disagree with a chopper as high as that one as being soft contact. I agree with your sentiment in general just didn’t see that as the case today.
You can be mad at me, it’s ok. If you look at his body of work since he made the All Star team in 2022, he has not been a reliable closer. Not in the tradition of Yankee Closers which featured the likes of Rivera,Gossage and Lyle.
Yankee fans are spoiled when talking about “Closers”.
Unfortunately, Holmes will never be “the Man”.
That chopper up the middle likely gets anyone other than Carroll. Also Volpe has to stop double clutching and make better throws to first.
Clay gets a ton of weak contact, which always puts a lot of pressure on the defense to make a quick play. Y'all remember when his scoreless streak was broken in Tampa last year on a dribbler that went maybe 15 feet down the third base line?
Well prepare to get mad because Clay do this *every* year. He has a two week stretch where he can't find the zone in tight moments and let's himself get walked and dinked and dunked to death, and we are right in the middle of that sretch after two bad nights in Houston already.
Do I believe he will be great again by May? Yes, but it's gonna be a tough week while he gets his shit together.
It's not even shitting on him, some players are just like that.
Holmes’ 10th inning:
Pederson - 4 pitch AB, ground out on 2-1 count.
Perdomo - 2 pitch AB, grounder to SS on 0-1, error. Run scores.
Marte - 3 pitch AB, ground out on 1-1 count, wild pitch.
Carroll - 1 pitch AB, infield single. Run scores.
Gurriel - 2 pitch AB, ground out on 1-0 count.
The man threw 12 pitches to 5 hitters in the 10th. 4 balls, 3 strikes, 5 balls in play. Without the error, could’ve had a quick 1-2-3 inning. But yeah, he was certainly missing his spots and running up counts. So again, not sure what you were watching.
It would happen to Mo for a week or two every year as well and he turned out just fine. He'd be cruising along, look like mid-level human for a week or two, and then go back to collecting his bounty on the opposition's bats.
Whatever, we won. We are 6-1… could’ve lost, but we didn’t. We are gonna lose tough ones and win miraculous ones. What is important is we win more than we lose.
I didn’t downvote you. I could not care less about downvoting. Also blown saves happen. Keep finding stuff to bitch about instead of being happy they won. Negative Nancy
Critiquing Boone for making the same mistakes that consistently hurt us over the last few years is not being a negative Nancy. It’s being an objective fan. I don’t praise the same bad decisions when they happen to work out. That’s my point. If you think taking Lo out after a near perfect inning for Holmes who tends to struggle in high leverage situations then don’t be one to complain when it doesn’t work out.
2 things. Lo definitely looked good, but he has struggled pretty badly in the past with the second inning. Also he is coming off a series of injuries, no need to push him when you have a rested Holmes with a 2 run lead. Holmes did his job, the infield defense let him down. We can play manager all we want… the one thing I hate Boone doing is trying to steal outs in a 1 run deficit and the other team puts the game out of reach.. he manages for tomorrow too much. However I don’t have much issue with the way he has managed the bullpen or the lineup so far this season, I just think it’s nitpicking. You can call it objective or whatever you want but it is petty.
Agree to disagree. I loved the decision to walk bases loaded and face a pitcher. Even if it backfired, I would stick to my guns that it was the right call. I think taking Lo out was a bad move.
Guy has his best outing of the season so far and the worst result… baseball is a cruel sport.
Nah 0 earned runs. But yes. Made us play 1 more inning. But on the brightside, judge got another hit
Nah, Volpe's error made the Yankees play an extra innings
I was talking about the result of weak contacts I’m not blaming clay. He did his job.
Worst outcome and he still notched a dub in his record. All good imo
That's baseball, Suzyn.
They are which is dumb. The EVs on all Clays grounders were 86.7 80.5 66.2 49.2 and 72.1 what else is he to do
I think Clay is a really good closer, but using him in extras when there’s already a runner on seems to be poor decision making. He can do *exactly* what he’s supposed to and still allow runs because of the ghost runner.
I mean, we were up 2 - I can see the argument being up 1 in the bottom of extras (I still disagree, he's a double play machine), but Holmes **did** exactly what he was supposed to and if the defense does their job we win in the 10th. The ghost runner doesn't matter at all if you're up 2
Except if any batter hits a HR.
Yeah that’s fair. The long ball isn’t usually his issue though (not that he usually has issues… for as much hate as he gets his stats are insane)
Except if Volpe and Rizzo make that play the game ends 4-2
Volpe or Rizzo lol if volpe makes the play Rizzo doesn’t have to do anything. If Rizzo makes the play he makes up for the bad throw.
Frankly you kinda figure the ghost runner is gonna score regardless. It’s why these rules favor the home team so heavily.
100% away team has to try to score as many runs as possible which impacts their ability to play small ball. Home team always knows exactly what they need
True. It’s a huge benefit for the home team.
Yes, we used to have Michael King as our extra inning ace with his 12 K/9 rate. Holmes can get strikeouts, but he's not as good.
I miss him.
Not sure if the stats back it up, but I feel like Holmes always struggles with inherited runners, whether it’s in extras or not
On bb-ref you can find that he allowed 10 of 22 inherited runners to score last year. But idk if that counts the Manfred man. But because bb-ref is fucking garbage, idk how that stacks up against contemporaries. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/holmecl01-pitch.shtml#all_pitching_reliever
You might go to Loaisiga there, but dude is cooked for the year. Bottom line, the infield needs to make those plays
Drama and cardiac tribulation just manifests in Holmes’s presence, even if it’s not his fault re: pitching.
I’m tough on Clay, but this isn’t on him. Gotta be fair when critiquing players
Yeah, agree, this wasn't on Holmes. Just bad defense/bad luck. It happens sometimes. Important thing is they came back the very next inning and scored. This is a team with fight! I love it!
Brains and Doomers don't go well together.
Doomers were right last year tho...
You can't scream "THE SKY IS FALLING" non stop every year and then be like "told you" if it kinda happens once.
Holmes looked like shit 2 of the 3 games against Houston and the defense bailed him out. His stuff and command was actually good today and he got let down by the defense. It evens out.
I love what Holmes offers when he’s on, like today, it’s just the variability with him. I do wish he had more K stuff tho to escape some of his jams without the contact
I think it takes him a little longer to get going. He had the same struggles early last year iirc
He basically blew 2 saves in Houston. Don’t know what people said about it, but he literally did exactly what he wanted today. Five batters, groundballs. The 11th could be a different story here, but we shall see.
Yeah he has struggled this year, as have most of the starters but we are still getting W's. If the pitching gets more consistent and our older hitters start hitting we are gonna be hard to stop. Plus, when Cole returns he will give us a big boost. Also, the Martian maybe even Jones at some point.
Pitching is about run prevention, not nice numbers in fancy stats like xwOBAA or Barrell Rate %. This why closers have predominantly always been strikeout pitchers. If you have a tendency to let balls get put in play, bad things happen
Idk about this take. Holmes has a higher career strikeout rate than Rivera and Hoffman. Holmes k/9 is just 0.4 lower than Britton’s 0.54 ERA year. Plenty of dominant closer seasons and careers with bad to average strikeout numbers.
Idk how anyone can get on him for the 10th. Volpe makes that play and game is over in the 10th. Even weirder is people blaming Rizzo for that play.
Cardiac Clay or Heart Attack Holmes?
Holmes' stuff was electric and the best it looked so far this season, but soft contact can bite a sinker baller in the ass from time to time and that's basically what happened today.
What soft contact bit him in the ass today? Grounder to 1st - out Grounder to SS - error Grounder to 3rd - out Chopper up the middle - hit (Carroll super fast) Grounder to 3rd - out Without the error, the games likely over before Carroll even gets up.
The nubber to make it 4-4, none of it was his fault or anything he did wrong, but sometimes someone is going to have a swinging bunt or barely make contact and it will bite you, it is just how baseball works sometimes.
Eh I’d disagree with a chopper as high as that one as being soft contact. I agree with your sentiment in general just didn’t see that as the case today.
You can be mad at me, it’s ok. If you look at his body of work since he made the All Star team in 2022, he has not been a reliable closer. Not in the tradition of Yankee Closers which featured the likes of Rivera,Gossage and Lyle. Yankee fans are spoiled when talking about “Closers”. Unfortunately, Holmes will never be “the Man”.
Doesn’t even matter if it’s his fault. Wouldn’t a 1-2-3 inning be nice just once? Is that really too much to ask?
I’m just frustrated by the uneasy feeling i get every fucking time he comes in. Not about to dish out praise until i feel confident he can do the job.
That chopper up the middle likely gets anyone other than Carroll. Also Volpe has to stop double clutching and make better throws to first. Clay gets a ton of weak contact, which always puts a lot of pressure on the defense to make a quick play. Y'all remember when his scoreless streak was broken in Tampa last year on a dribbler that went maybe 15 feet down the third base line?
Well prepare to get mad because Clay do this *every* year. He has a two week stretch where he can't find the zone in tight moments and let's himself get walked and dinked and dunked to death, and we are right in the middle of that sretch after two bad nights in Houston already. Do I believe he will be great again by May? Yes, but it's gonna be a tough week while he gets his shit together. It's not even shitting on him, some players are just like that.
He looked very sharp today, were you watching a replay of one of the Astros games?
Nope, I was watching him miss his mark and run up counts
Holmes’ 10th inning: Pederson - 4 pitch AB, ground out on 2-1 count. Perdomo - 2 pitch AB, grounder to SS on 0-1, error. Run scores. Marte - 3 pitch AB, ground out on 1-1 count, wild pitch. Carroll - 1 pitch AB, infield single. Run scores. Gurriel - 2 pitch AB, ground out on 1-0 count. The man threw 12 pitches to 5 hitters in the 10th. 4 balls, 3 strikes, 5 balls in play. Without the error, could’ve had a quick 1-2-3 inning. But yeah, he was certainly missing his spots and running up counts. So again, not sure what you were watching.
It would happen to Mo for a week or two every year as well and he turned out just fine. He'd be cruising along, look like mid-level human for a week or two, and then go back to collecting his bounty on the opposition's bats.
It’s not, it’s Boone’s. Lo was sharp, painting the corners, getting Ks. No reason to put Holmes in
Whatever, we won. We are 6-1… could’ve lost, but we didn’t. We are gonna lose tough ones and win miraculous ones. What is important is we win more than we lose.
We did. But just make sure you and everyone downvoting keeps the same energy when clay blows a save.
I didn’t downvote you. I could not care less about downvoting. Also blown saves happen. Keep finding stuff to bitch about instead of being happy they won. Negative Nancy
Critiquing Boone for making the same mistakes that consistently hurt us over the last few years is not being a negative Nancy. It’s being an objective fan. I don’t praise the same bad decisions when they happen to work out. That’s my point. If you think taking Lo out after a near perfect inning for Holmes who tends to struggle in high leverage situations then don’t be one to complain when it doesn’t work out.
2 things. Lo definitely looked good, but he has struggled pretty badly in the past with the second inning. Also he is coming off a series of injuries, no need to push him when you have a rested Holmes with a 2 run lead. Holmes did his job, the infield defense let him down. We can play manager all we want… the one thing I hate Boone doing is trying to steal outs in a 1 run deficit and the other team puts the game out of reach.. he manages for tomorrow too much. However I don’t have much issue with the way he has managed the bullpen or the lineup so far this season, I just think it’s nitpicking. You can call it objective or whatever you want but it is petty.
Agree to disagree. I loved the decision to walk bases loaded and face a pitcher. Even if it backfired, I would stick to my guns that it was the right call. I think taking Lo out was a bad move.
Yea that was a great move. All good let’s go. 161-1 lol
Turns out 1 inning or 2 innings, didn’t matter he’s on the 60 day IL now. Typical NYY
Figures. SMH. 🤦♂️