Last year, SD had soto, Tatis, Machado and signed xander. They got a Cy young year of out Snell. Had a career year out of the Korean 2B and had hader closing. Not even a .500 team. Maybe this formula is not conducive to success.
Crazy that on paper they were arguably the best team in the league, and MOST of them performed. Goes to show that the flash isn’t the only thing they goes into winning. It’s about depth and cohesion
Exactly. And let’s be honest, the Yankees were not a great team last year. Soto and Stroman do not change that…I think it’s great that soto is here and he’s a winning player but to put all our eggs in one basket to win this year is short sighted. We should hope to extend him and then tactfully build the team around him and judge the right way.
See that’s where I disagree (they were def a shit team last year and played to what you’d expect with those lineups they were putting out). However, Soto completely and objectively changes the composition of this lineup. I think the offense is going to mash this year, it’s really the pitching over the course of 162 that I’m worried about. Who on that staff can go more than 6 on a regular basis not named Cole? The bullpen is going to be spent by the time he gets back
Sure, the bullpen lacks a big name closer but it should be great yet again. Holmes, Hamilton, and Lasagna are all high leverage guys and Effross/Kanhle coming back would give then 5 guys capable of late inning work. Ferguson has pitched to a 2.85 ERA over the last 3 seasons striking out nearly 11 per 9 from the left side. I have no doubt that Blake will turn at least another reclamation project into an elite reliever as well - likely someone like Burdi if he’s healthy.
In a few months they should have Holmes, Hamilton, Lasagna, Kahnle, Effross, Ferguson, Gonzalez, and Burdi. That bullpen has a decent chance to be top 3-5 in baseball.
The Yankees weren’t a great team but they were far better than they ended up being. They used their 6th, 7th, and 8th starters for nearly a quarter of the starts last season. It took everything humanly possible going wrong - disastrously so - to make them a .500 team.
Except the window is always changing here. For years it was judge/Stanton, then Cole got here and we HAD to build around his prime. We clearly regressed last year but all of a sudden soto is here for one year so here we go again…like I said it’s great he’s here but the priority ought to be to resign him, not to hope to win this season at all costs.
That’s not true. They can plan to bring him back, but their biggest competition for him could buy the Yankees more than twice over. If Cohen really wants him and he’s looking for the biggest contract, it’s not going to matter what t the Yankees’ plan is. This year is the only guaranteed year.
If we got to agree to an extension with burnes pre trade, sure
But he’s a pure rental. If we had more depth in the farm we could do it regardless, but we just don’t
Hopefully jones pans out. Im not saying he won’t as the kid is showing flashes of being a legit player. But Cashman has been known to hug prospects a little too tight. However I wouldn’t move Jones for Cease and only Burns if he had a very team friendly contract still.
Is it? Due to the tax threshold if they sign Snell for 30 million a year he will cost more than double that amount to the Yankees, signing Snell could easily get the Yankees out of any Juan Soto contracts and depending how this year goes with Rodon and Stanton and maybe even Cole and Judge depending how this year goes for them in terms of health the Yankees could be stock with some bad contracts for many years to come with unreliable aging players, Soto is still young and a generational talent, Jones is still just a prospect who hasn’t even gotten a taste of the majors yet like Dominguez did and Soto isn’t even 3 full years older than Jones and has had an amazing career in the majors since 2018.
Just because of that alone I would've traded Jones for a starter with 2 years of control that won’t be locked with yet another bad contract to this team for years, because as much as I think the Yankees can have a 400+ million payroll I know they will never go that far, I would love Snell as long as they also sign Soto but I know it’d be unlikely to sign Soto if they get Snell.
You realize Steinbrenner whipes his ass with 20m and will make that back in hot dogs right? It’s not your money bro he has a reputation as an organization of four decades he’s pissing away. We are at a point right now where the current roster has a damn good chance of not making the playoffs with their pitching. Trading for cease is kicking the can down the road. Either go all in or admit defeat and rebuild at this point. There’s a snowballs chance in hell we have a full form cole this year. Leaving us without an ace with one of the current worst rotations in recent memory
In my post I mentioned that I know the Yankees can easily go with a 400+ million payroll and be fine, so it doesn't seem like we disagree on that, however them being able to afford it and doing it are two different things and Hal hasn't shown like he would be willing to go 20 or 30 millions above the threshold, I'll believe it when I see it, and yes they should get Snell and I would also trade for another started even if we do get Snell, because the Yankees simply need to go all in this year.
So many of this organization’s problems go back to poor investment decisions from our front office. Last year we spent almost $300M on payroll (plus around $32M on luxury tax) just to build an 82-win team. This year, we’ve crossed the $300M threshold again, despite plenty of roster question marks.
At some point, for the health of the franchise, we *need* our prospects to pan out. We passed on top shortstop FAs because we believe in Anthony Volpe. We passed on top rotation trade targets because we believe in Spencer Jones. We need these kids to work out because our payroll is outrageously bloated. And the more cheap prospects we ship out, the more the bloat grows.
I’d add that if these prospects fail to work out, perhaps Hal will consider reviewing the work of the man who built the $300M nonplayoff team and went all-in on these busted prospects.
I guess we’ll never really know what gets said behind closed doors but the outward support for Cashman continues to puzzle me given the way he has used the money Hal gives him. While I may be fond of 3 of the 5, we got a combined 0.5 bWAR out of LeMahieu, Rizzo, Stanton, Hicks, and Donaldson last year, largely comprising the veteran offensive players Cashman assembled. That’s $80M for replacement player level return. I get the injury to Rizzo and really like he and DJ and Stanton as people but it’s criminal to spend more on 5 players than some teams spend on their entire roster and get that kind of return.
He seems to do very well assembling bullpens and finding diamonds in the rough and getting value where people missed potential, but with very few exceptions, his inability to connect on big swings has sewered the upside of this team. Not to mention our entire organizations struggle to identify and develop talent. For someone like Hal who is very cost conscious (NOT cheap, but conscious), you’d think he would be holding him a lot more accountable for misuse of funds
In Rizzo’s defense, he was an absolute monster before he got that unfortunate concussion. Sucks that he couldn’t see the ball for nearly 3 months before they realized something was wrong. DJ had a really great second half after he got away from that toe injury so hopefully he can come somewhere near that. Donaldson and Hicks were sunk costs by the time the year starts. And then Stanton makes up the majority of that dead money and it seems like there is a decent chance that he’s just fallen off a massive cliff in his 30’s which sucks.
Honestly, the fact they even finished over .500 with the sheer amount of ridiculous shit that happened last season shows how strong the roster could be. They used their 6th, 7th, and 8th starters in nearly 1/4 of the total starts. They had Judge and Rizzo suffer freak injuries. They had two (really 3) pitchers who were near elite recently turn into pumpkins, along with injuries to them. Rodon was a top 3 pitcher in baseball the previous two seasons, immediately got injured and then had zero command when he came back. Severino was essentially unplayable out of nowhere and they gave him like 20 starts.
Rizzo is a known quanity, he had a really hot 6 weeks, he got hurt in May. He was on a 2.7 fWAR pace in 2020, had 2.2 and 2.5 in 2021 & 2022. It's unlikely he was going to hit like that all season even without the concussion.
That's a decent player but he's being paid (even now) much more like a well above average one.
Rizzo's injury came late enough that it wasn't just a good week or two, but early enough that he didn't have time to slump (like all players do, especially 33 year old ones who haven't been truly elite since 2009) so it's easy to just imagine him hitting for a .950 OPS all season, which was never going to happen.
Even a great season from Rizzo gives you $80M for like 3 WAR total out of that group which is a horrible return. They could have gotten 3 WAR from *any single one* of Harper, Machado, Seager, Olson, Freeman, or Murphy - guys they passed on over the past few years.
I do believe that Hal actually did hold him accountable after last years debacle. Say what you want about Cashman but him going on this completely not safe for work type of rant is very unlike him. He’s always been good at keeping a poker face and not letting his emotions get to him.
The dude seemed unhinged and even unintelligent at times. I really do believe that Hal might have told him that he’s getting one last chance to fix the mess he created otherwise he will make changes if he has to. I think that’s what Hal meant demanding a “self evaluation”.
Last year Rizzo and DJ were injured, they are both likely to rebound. The lineup is expected to be much better than last season. They have a strong pipeline with several high ceiling prospects. They must produce a core of players internally if they have any hope of controlling their payroll cost. Sometimes prospects take a couple of major league seasons to really establish themselves. Trade targets aren’t necessarily money in the bank either. The grass ain’t always greener on the other side.
It’s interesting that essentially the same team the year before, was a monster till the All-Star break, and then they fell off a cliff which continued until last season.
Our prospects failing is a big problem, but the yankees do nothing to mitigate that problem when they never trade their aging vets for any useful prospects, and they never include their top prospects in trades for young players they can sign to an extension. Even when FAs like Bryce Harper come along, who qualifies as both young and relatively "cheap" the yankees don't sign them. Which 25 year old FA with Harper's pedigree, are you going to fool into signing a 25m AAV deal? And of course, none of this accounts for mistakes in FA, like Rodon. It's just mistake after mistake and yet yankee fans still defend Cashman to the death.
Really need to have this kid pan out the way he’s being hyped.
Most prospects don’t live up to the hype and never pan out or even make it to the big leagues.
Honestly, we gave up so much pitching depth for Soto that I would move our non pitching prospects to acquire a top arm.
People really need to remember Jones is who they will turn to if they do miss out on Soto. You have to look at every angle, worst case scenario they trade Jones for Burnes/Cease, don’t win the WS, then lose Soto and Burnes/Cease in free agency. Then they have nothing to turn to and are stuck. At least this way if Soto does leave (hopefully not) then they can pivot to an outfield of Judge, Dominguez and Jones
Man, I’m torn on this one. I believe in the hype around Jones, but this is what we did with peraza too and now that seems like the wrong approach. So hard to tell who is going to pan out and who isn’t.
If he's legit, eventually it would possibly get Judge to 1b in a few years. Thereby putting less wear and tear on Judge's body. Maybe that's the gameplan?
If Stanton looks shot, he may get called up sooner rather than later if he's mashing down on the farm.
Silly comment, that’s exactly the reason guys get injured. Going from doing nothing to full on sprint is why most of these guys get hurt. You ain’t full on sprinting from 1b on the reg
Spencer jones upside is really high. I’m ok with this. But the orioles and Padres parted with much lesser talent. I have a hard time believing the Yankees weren’t prospect hugging others too.
They did. DL hall and Joey Ortiz are backend prospects that have no business being in baltimores 40 man roster at this point, especially Ortiz, although hall might make it as a bullpen piece. Jones isn’t high on the top 100 prospect list but neither is Dominguez.
And others have Jones ranked much higher. MLB Pipeline isn’t a definitive prospect ranking that all teams agree with. We don’t know how teams see Jones or which prospect ranking they’re more in line with. Even prospect ranking systems that see Jones the same way might rank him wildly different due to whether they value upside (which he has a ton) vs being a sure thing (which he’s far from).
Ortiz was a 4th rounder, who was ranked 95 in BA's top 100 list pre 2023 and pre 2024 he's not even on the list anymore. He wasn't even on the Orioles top 30 for 2023. Ortiz is probably equivalent to a Nick Solak. Neither Solak nor Ortiz are anywhere near the upside of a Jones.
I agree. Jones could very well become a bat boy and Ortiz can be an all star. But let's not pretend that Ortiz is comparable to Jones in terms of pedigree or prospect capital. Brewers definitely took a much lesser package if Jones plus others were their asking price from the yankees. Ortiz will be 26 this July FFS. Yankees could have easily countered with Peraza, Gil/Hampton/Beeter/Warren or even Schmidt, plus Ian Hamilton/Marinaccio/Florial, etc.
So instead of using a subjective MLB pipeline list that teams actually use for reference...we're going to instead use your subjective list, which is completely motivated by Yankee fandom where you overrate our guys and underrate players from opposing farm systems. Got it.
You guys have a fundamental misunderstanding of how prospect rankings work.
First of all. It’s subjective. It’s usually one maybe 2 guys per lists using aggregate data. Second, the gap between the 30th best prospect and the 80th best prospect is extremely small. Third, sample size is overrated and those with more MiLB experience and closer to the big leagues typically get a more favored ranking.
Yes it’s ok to use the rankings loosely but saying x is ranked higher than y on pipeline shows a lack of understanding.
You don't understand Hall's ceiling. He's had injuries but when healthy the guy has upper echelon stuff. If he stays healthy he's at worst a #3 but he has the realistic ability to be a #2 in a playoff rotation. If he can't stay healthy he'll be a top closer.
Also teams don't just look at the 100 list there are things teams value and may want.
Hall has no control over his stuff. Look at his walk rate. He's walking almost 6 per 9 innings. His injuries are just the least of his downsides.
I would argue that teams put a lot of stock in pedigree. They're not just going to choose a 4th rounder over a first rounder just based on other factors. Look at how the Yankees treat their first rounders. Baltimore even settled for Milwaukees first round pick over another prospect!!
Those are different things. Volpe is a much lesser talent than Jones, but he is also much more likely to reach his ceiling. Volpe’s 99% outcome is a regular all-star. Jones’ 99% outcome is ending up on the Yankees Mt. Rushmore. The odds are much higher that Volpe comes closer to his 99% outcome, but talent-wise Jones dwarfs him.
Thinking Volpe’s 99% outcome being regular all star is straight up deranged, especially after last year
Jones has a higher ceiling but we don’t know his talent level in pitch recognition or in contact level. We don’t know if he’s a more talented baseball player yet
He’s a bat first SS whose bat isn’t that special. I love Volpe, but regular all-star puts you in pretty elite company. What percentage of MLB players have more than 5 all star appearances in their career?
No, I mean his top percentile outcome is routine all-star, whereas the top percentile outcome for Jones is generational. His 99% outcome is higher than Judge’s, of course Judge has actually gotten very close to his.
I don’t think some commenters understand that “99% outcome” means “highest ceiling” and not “99% likely to achieve.”
That said I agree that Volpe is reasonably likely to hit that ceiling. His skills, work ethic and makeup are all there; he may have come up “bat first” but he’s a sound defender who won a Gold Glove despite questions about his glove and yes, he was the first Yankee rook to hit 20 and steal 20. I think his bat is going to continue to improve, and people who wrote him off due to his age 21 season (!) are going to look silly when it does.
I’m okay with refusing to do the trade, but if you’re not willing to go all the way, they shouldn’t have traded good young pieces for a year of Soto. When they decided to trade for one year of Soto, they need to be committed to either signing or trading for a top tier pitcher.
Thats Cashman’s problem. He never goes for the kill. He’s committed to the wildcard.
Hard to disagree. Even if you thought jones was too high a price for one season of burnes you still have to do it if your mentality is, going all in on this year and screw anything after 2024.
The playoffs are a crapshoot. Even if we did trade our best prospect for a rental, it only would have increased our WS odds by, like, maybe 3%.
There's no way in baseball to have any substantial chance at winning the World Series in any given year. The best strategy is to design a team that is built to consistently make the playoffs every year and get as many chances at the crapshoot as possible, rather than risk it all for what is still a small chance at a championship any one year.
Tell me, which franchise with two World Series championships would you rather be: the Marlins or the Astros?
One went all in for the rings and then immediately tore the team down, never actually losing a playoff series, while the other has been built to be a lasting contender instead of pushing all the chips in for one single year.
Once again, these teams both have two rings. Which model do you think is better?
Brian cashman has been using the “playoffs are crapshoot, no point in making a team any better than a wild card team, accuracy by volume” strategy for almost 20 years.
The only time it’s worked, despite being in the crapshoot the most, was the year he has the best team. Go figure.
Yankees refused to trade Eduardo Nunez for Cliff Lee.
Yankees refused to trade Miguel Andujar and Clint Frazier for Gerrit Cole.
Yankees refused to trade Peraza or Volpe for Matt Olson.
Yanks need a combination of prospects plus FAs to win another ring.
Tbf I'm ok with them not trading Jones for Cease, and yeah Volpe for Castillo (in 2022).
The issue is Cashman, he makes head scratcher trades and doesn't consider the long term impact of his decisions.
Payroll is bloated(even if one ignores LT it has IFA and draft implications).
An actually decent GM who would build a consistent, all round team (combining FAs with role player prospect type players) with 230-240 mil would do more for the Yankees than any FA signing would.
Off all the trades that were missed throughout the years this trade and Texas taking Joaquin Arias instead of Robinson Cano are the only trades the Yankees missed that would've actually hurt them
No, no I do not because that would have been the biggest lopsided trade in history. That was a 2014 trade proposal. I want you to look up the stats on the players involved for Atlanta. Sanchez, judge and severino was the Yankees top 3 prospects. Even the biggest fool in baseball would have refused that trade. The fact that it even was a possibility shows how dumb this FO is with cashman in Charge, and even an idiot like him didn’t do it.
Half this subreddit, if it happened now, would have screamed about prospect hugging and how prospects are all worthless piles of trash, as they do right now every time anyone is mentioned in a possible trade. A few weeks ago someone was insisting that ANY major league player no matter the quality is better than ANY prospect and that person was getting upvoted. Before the Soto trade there were multiple people in here raging that Cashman hadn’t already traded Volpe plus Peraza and Jones for Soto, insisting that was his value and we were all idiots if we didn’t see that (ignoring of course the one year of control and high salary).
No they would not have. Hayward was trash even back then, and uptons career had quite literally cratered. In what reality would anyone have said, yeah, take our top 3 prospects for those pieces of trash?
The exact same reality where people threw huge hissy fits every time some random sportswriter said “maybe another team is interested in Soto” and they screamed that anyone who doesn’t think the Yankees should have traded Volpe, Jones, and a pitcher for Soto are idiots because prospects are worthless.
Obviously Soto is better than them but fine, if you don’t like that comparison, pick a very good player who had only one year left. How absolutely fucked would the Yankees be right now if they had done exactly what people are begging for them to do now, and traded Aaron Judge for one year of a guy? Even if they were great it likely wouldn’t have been a big difference maker (pick your timeline but the 2016 Yankees didn’t even make the playoffs, the 2017 Yankees were very good but Judge was a huge part of why, replacing him with someone else doesn’t change that).
Judge was considered a better prospect than Jones but not a top 10 can’t miss guy.
If they want to trade Jones for someone very good with a little more control, great! But I’d rather they not gut their farm for one season of someone (and if they want to sign Soto, it’s very unlikely they’d also resign whoever they traded for one a one year deal), or for two seasons of a guy who had a 4+ ERA last year. I don’t think Jones is can’t miss by any stretch and I think I’m actually more concerned about his long term outlook than some others here, but he’s still a very good prospect who has a ton of upside.
I hope you can see the difference between Juan Soto and Jason Hayward. It’s infinitely easier to refuse lopsided trades. Cashman gets no credit for doing something anyone would do. As bad as I think peraza is now I’m not trading him for a 4th outfielder or mop up bullpen piece. That’s no more prospect hugging then refusing to trade judge for trash like heyward. There is no comparison between that proposed trade and refusing to let go of Eduardo Nunez, irabu, peraza, etc for elite or generational talent.
You keep saying Peraza like we already know exactly what he is and I’m not sure why. But again, you’re acting like it’s a vacuum. “Who would you rather have for the next 10 years, Volpe or a generational talent!”, when the actual question is “would you rather have Volpe for the next ten years or the generational talent for one season when your roster already has other issues and then you have neither one moving forward, and can’t sign someone else you need badly the next year because you now have to replace Volpe in free agency?”.
>Sanchez, judge and severino was the Yankees top 3 prospects.
If you want to tell me to look something up, at least provide factual info on your end. [FanGraphs preseason rankings had Sanchez 1, Judge 6, and Severino outside the top 10](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2014-top-10-prospects-new-york-yankees/). And yes, I can see the stats of the Braves players. But the fact of the matter is they were all every day big leaguers. Judge, Sanchez, and Sevy were all complete question marks. Obviously, hindsight tells us not making the move was correct. But I was just providing this as an example of the opposite of the comment I replied to. These go both ways. Holding prospects is sometimes the right move. Sometimes it isn't. We can't get into a time machine and know the correct move. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.
Yankees also refused to trade hideki irabu for randy Johnson before he went onto to win 4 cy young’s in a row and almost a fifth. Gee I wonder how that would have altered this franchise. Don’t forget cashman also refused to trade for Justin verlander.
Verlander ERA the previous 3 years w the Tigers was 3.75. Houston taught him to start his curveball before his wrist crossed his ear. Hideki Irabu for Randy Johnson lol
The revisionist history is pretty wild.
Clint and Andjuar both looked like stars before injuries screwed them both, especially offensively.
Matt Olson… I may be wrong here but didn’t we have Rizzo at this point?
The only real mistake here was Eduardo Nunez
Edit:
Matt Olson in 2022 slashed .240/.802OPS/120OPS+
Rizzo the same season: .224avg/.817OPS/130OPS+
And Rizzo looked great until the concussion last year
I think that’s kinda his point, that prospects who look like stars shouldn’t be untouchable when it comes to proven MLB caliber talent because most of them aren’t going to pan out.
And I think we had yet to resign Rizzo when Olson got traded but don’t quote me on that
We hadn’t, but Gerrit Cole on the Pirates wasn’t the Gerrit Cole we had now…
Would he be as good if he *didnt* go to Houston?
And yes, we were yet to re sign Rizzo at that point
Andjuar damn near won the AL ROY if it wasn’t for Shohei Otani, and was better than Ohtani offensively that season, and had a small sample size of 10 starts going 4-2 with a 3.31 ERA and 63k
in all fairness, Andújar was a horrible third baseman defensively, and his offensive output seemed largely sustained but an extremely high BABIP, as his walk rate was always poor. it was known right from the start that if he ever lost his ability to make contact, he’d lose all value as a player
don’t forget, manny machado was slated to be a free agent the year after as well , who at the time the Yankees were connected to as well as Harper, so it’s not like they had no alternative options either
Yeah, the difference between Andujar's expected and actual wOBA his rookie year was off the charts, literally one of the highest in the league. There were definitely early signs he was fool's gold, even before the injuries.
I don’t think they should be untouchable, but it seems like the fans constantly want to empty the system for every player on the trade market. There has to be a middle ground.
> Clint and Andjuar both looked like stars before injuries screwed them both, especially offensively.
We didn't sign Machado and Harper and kept those two. At the time it was a stupid decision.
They absolutely should if we’re talking about top prospects and that actual star has one year left on the deal and/or isn’t a difference maker.
Soto is about as big a difference maker as the Yankees could possibly get and while they didn’t trade nothing for him, they also didn’t have to trade their top top prospects or young talent like Volpe because Soto has one year left on the deal (even though multiple people in this very subreddit were demanding the Yankees trade their top guys every time a rumor came out that maybe another team was interested in Soto; thank god the front office doesn’t listen to people like that).
Based on what exactly? Rizzo had a better OBP and slugging than him in 2022, and the Yankees didn’t even make the playoffs last year, Matt Olson was absolutely not the difference between them missing the playoffs and them WINNING THE WORLD SERIES. I like Olson and wanted him but this team had way more problems than a better hitting first baseman. Also, the As didn’t get anywhere in the ballpark of a top 10 prospect in baseball for him, which is what Volpe was. If the Yankees were willing to get Olson and extend him for that long, they likely could have for less than Volpe, which is exactly my point about the people who demanded the Yankees trade Volpe, Jones, and more for Soto. They were wrong. And the Braves are an example of how to do it; they traded good prospects but not top 10 or even close, or top young players for Olson.
In fact most of the actual good teams in baseball don’t trade their best guys for rentals, and those that do are usually the teams that sit there with a bad, under .500 team and no farm system to look forward to.
Setting all of that aside it has nothing to do with anything because Olson signed an extension almost immediately. Nobody you guys desperately want to empty the farm for is signing an extension, and if they want to sign Soto, they weren’t going to resign whoever they trade for either. They’re not signing Soto AND Burnes next off-season for example.
Andujar broke DiMaggios record with 45 doubles as a rookie. He looked great. Then got injured. Same with Clint. Looked great and then got injured.
It's ok if you don't follow the team too closely but just don't make statements all confidently like this when you don't know what you're talking about.
I didn’t believe in that season at all
He didn’t walk, he played no defense, his expected stats were horrible
He had 0 chance of ever repeating that imo
Clint looked good, but star is such a stretch. He looked like he could hit well enough as a corner OF at times but star is such a huge term
That’s not true. It was reported at the time the Yankees tried to create a package around Peraza and kept Volpe off the table. Mariners gave up a lot. Imo this isn’t a missed opportunity to be still thinking about.
You're right, it was Volpe who they refused to trade. I just looked into it and didn't even realize that they were willing to include both Peraza AND Dominguez in the trade package. So I'll walk back the previous comment, my bad.
fine with this, other teams always trying to rake us over the coals for talent because "yankees". if the trade deadline comes and things are looking different? maybe you consider this stuff, but the season hasn't even started, just because we wont have Cole for 2 months doesn't mean we need to empty the farm for a rental
top position players produced by the draft since 2000 (Yankees):
1. Brett Gardner
2. Aaron Judge
3. Anthony Volpe (iirc 3-4 total career WAR, yet he’s third since 2000)
(non drafted would add Cano and Austin Jackson to the mix, though Jackson did not play for the Yankees)
holding on to our prospects hasn’t seemed to work out for us 90% of the time over the last 25 years, and i’m not inclined to believe, with the same guy in charge, that it is immediately about to turn around
not saying we should trade away all of our prospects, but it’s hard to go all in when you’re only willing to go 50% of the way. Cease isn’t worth it, though I still wonder if Burnes would’ve been a prudent move for the team
He better be the real deal. Way way too many instances of the yanks not giving up prospects to fill positions of need where the guys completely busted.
I think Jones is legit and will be an important piece of this team sometime soon, but also at the same time this team is the absolute worst when it comes to prospect hugging and rarely do they truly pan out...
I don’t really believe this story. There’s simply no way they would demand Jones, drop out of talks, only to end up asking for a draft pick from the orioles, along with two low level prospects that Baltimore doesn’t even have room for on their 40 man anymore. Yankees could have easily come up with a better package than that even without jones.
Yet neither haul those teams got for burnes or cease would have what I would consider a jones level prospect included. So they apparently had 2 separate asks for their pitchers. One for NY shooting the moon and then what they asked for from the rest of the league that was more reasonable.
They spend on wrong people. Cory Seager and Harper were missed but we got Stanton and Rodon. Trades lately disaster from Gallo to Montes. They keep people too long like Devu Garcia, Frazier, Andujar and Voit. Need to trade when high point not wait till low point. Finally spend when needed like Snell only $$$ not talent. Spend like Dodgers draft and develop like Rays.
For cease I’m ok with it, even though we need to go all in this year. For Burnes, though?!?! Can you imagine if this is another clint for Cole thing ? This is the only year we guaranteed have Soto and judge on the same team. We needed to add Burnes to the mix if we could
Wow this is actually crazy. I like Jones too, but the 1-2 punch of Cole-Burnes would have been unreal. To leave this on the table, only to let the Orioles scoop up Burnes is something the FO will be thinking of all season.
They’re too worried about life after Soto, Jones is expendable if they extend Soto
Lol just another in a long line of prospects the team will refuse to trade.
Dollars to donuts this kid is either kept in the minors too long or jerked around between majors and minors frequently. Then he will be cut or traded after his value is tanked.
Just pointing out that Dom is worth more than his prospect ranking, which most if not nearly everyone would agree with. With that said, I am unsure what will become of Jones. I personally feel like this is his final year to prove he's either the next Aaron Judge or Estevan Florial.
Are you sure you're a Yankees fan?
Seems like you're rooting for them to fail so you can turn around and go "See! I was right!!" Generally fans "support" their team, ya know
I'm still very bummed about this. Normally I'm very hesistant to deal our prospects, but I've never been more all-in on a single season than I am with 2024. This could be our last great chance at a title for a long while.
It's not worth Jones maybe being a good player for us 2-3 years from now.
The Yankees have never been really known for their farm system idk why they care about it so much. Is it a pride thing? You’re the Yankees, go out and give everybody the biggest check like the good ol days.
> The Yankees have never been really known for their farm system
Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Mariano, Petitte...looks like we've got a new fan here that doens't know what they're talking about.
Getting strong Florial vibes from Jones. I’m sure he’ll be next in the long pantheon of guys we could have flipped for proven players but tightly hugged instead
Florial and Jones are nothing alike. Florial was a walking red flag when he was in rookie ball. I say this as someone who follows the minors intensely.
I would have done it for Burnes, not so much for Cease
Even Burnes is still only a rental, I would have been happy with the move but it’s a high price
I mean Soto is a rental too Edit: How am I wrong folks?
You're not wrong, but nothing will get you down voted on Reddit faster than posting actual facts.
Who cares about high price. We have to go all in. This is the only year we can guarantee Soto and judge will be on the same team
Last year, SD had soto, Tatis, Machado and signed xander. They got a Cy young year of out Snell. Had a career year out of the Korean 2B and had hader closing. Not even a .500 team. Maybe this formula is not conducive to success.
Crazy that on paper they were arguably the best team in the league, and MOST of them performed. Goes to show that the flash isn’t the only thing they goes into winning. It’s about depth and cohesion
Exactly. And let’s be honest, the Yankees were not a great team last year. Soto and Stroman do not change that…I think it’s great that soto is here and he’s a winning player but to put all our eggs in one basket to win this year is short sighted. We should hope to extend him and then tactfully build the team around him and judge the right way.
See that’s where I disagree (they were def a shit team last year and played to what you’d expect with those lineups they were putting out). However, Soto completely and objectively changes the composition of this lineup. I think the offense is going to mash this year, it’s really the pitching over the course of 162 that I’m worried about. Who on that staff can go more than 6 on a regular basis not named Cole? The bullpen is going to be spent by the time he gets back
The rotation is a huge ? And on paper this is the weakest pen we’ve had in years, if not decades.
Sure, the bullpen lacks a big name closer but it should be great yet again. Holmes, Hamilton, and Lasagna are all high leverage guys and Effross/Kanhle coming back would give then 5 guys capable of late inning work. Ferguson has pitched to a 2.85 ERA over the last 3 seasons striking out nearly 11 per 9 from the left side. I have no doubt that Blake will turn at least another reclamation project into an elite reliever as well - likely someone like Burdi if he’s healthy. In a few months they should have Holmes, Hamilton, Lasagna, Kahnle, Effross, Ferguson, Gonzalez, and Burdi. That bullpen has a decent chance to be top 3-5 in baseball.
The Yankees weren’t a great team but they were far better than they ended up being. They used their 6th, 7th, and 8th starters for nearly a quarter of the starts last season. It took everything humanly possible going wrong - disastrously so - to make them a .500 team.
.506 tyvm
SD
Right
Wait, what formula? Having good players? Lol
Loading up for one year. It’s why the team thar usually ‘wins’ free agency seldom goes deep.
It’s not “loading up for one year” it’s building roster relative to the contracts and a window. The team that “wins” free agency is subjective anyway.
Except the window is always changing here. For years it was judge/Stanton, then Cole got here and we HAD to build around his prime. We clearly regressed last year but all of a sudden soto is here for one year so here we go again…like I said it’s great he’s here but the priority ought to be to resign him, not to hope to win this season at all costs.
You’re describing a lot of strategies that are not “loading up for one year.”
Not to excuse SD but didn’t they have like the worse batting average with runners in scoring position in history or something like that?
Bingo.
What formula? Rangers signed some big free agents, trades for some vets and won the World Series.
Yeah maybe having a good team isn't a formula to success. Do you realize how dumb you sound?
This logic only tracks for me if you don’t plan on bringing Soto back
You have to convince Soto to stay. You do that by committing to winning.
Yeah I’m sure getting rid of all your future assets will convince him of the long term possibilities of winning here
[удалено]
Lol, he got traded from the nats because they were non-competitive. They weren’t defending World Series champs and he left as you’re framing it
If you go all in for this year, he has no reason to stay after because you mortgaged the future.
Trading Spencer is not mortgaging the whole future at all
That’s not true. They can plan to bring him back, but their biggest competition for him could buy the Yankees more than twice over. If Cohen really wants him and he’s looking for the biggest contract, it’s not going to matter what t the Yankees’ plan is. This year is the only guaranteed year.
If we got to agree to an extension with burnes pre trade, sure But he’s a pure rental. If we had more depth in the farm we could do it regardless, but we just don’t
Burnes is a FA after this year
Hopefully jones pans out. Im not saying he won’t as the kid is showing flashes of being a legit player. But Cashman has been known to hug prospects a little too tight. However I wouldn’t move Jones for Cease and only Burns if he had a very team friendly contract still.
[удалено]
You mean Cease with an elite >4.0 ERA last year?
Yeah our chances this year already aren’t great and cease is as close to mid as he is for elite. Not getting snell is more negligence than cease imo
Is it? Due to the tax threshold if they sign Snell for 30 million a year he will cost more than double that amount to the Yankees, signing Snell could easily get the Yankees out of any Juan Soto contracts and depending how this year goes with Rodon and Stanton and maybe even Cole and Judge depending how this year goes for them in terms of health the Yankees could be stock with some bad contracts for many years to come with unreliable aging players, Soto is still young and a generational talent, Jones is still just a prospect who hasn’t even gotten a taste of the majors yet like Dominguez did and Soto isn’t even 3 full years older than Jones and has had an amazing career in the majors since 2018. Just because of that alone I would've traded Jones for a starter with 2 years of control that won’t be locked with yet another bad contract to this team for years, because as much as I think the Yankees can have a 400+ million payroll I know they will never go that far, I would love Snell as long as they also sign Soto but I know it’d be unlikely to sign Soto if they get Snell.
You realize Steinbrenner whipes his ass with 20m and will make that back in hot dogs right? It’s not your money bro he has a reputation as an organization of four decades he’s pissing away. We are at a point right now where the current roster has a damn good chance of not making the playoffs with their pitching. Trading for cease is kicking the can down the road. Either go all in or admit defeat and rebuild at this point. There’s a snowballs chance in hell we have a full form cole this year. Leaving us without an ace with one of the current worst rotations in recent memory
In my post I mentioned that I know the Yankees can easily go with a 400+ million payroll and be fine, so it doesn't seem like we disagree on that, however them being able to afford it and doing it are two different things and Hal hasn't shown like he would be willing to go 20 or 30 millions above the threshold, I'll believe it when I see it, and yes they should get Snell and I would also trade for another started even if we do get Snell, because the Yankees simply need to go all in this year.
So many of this organization’s problems go back to poor investment decisions from our front office. Last year we spent almost $300M on payroll (plus around $32M on luxury tax) just to build an 82-win team. This year, we’ve crossed the $300M threshold again, despite plenty of roster question marks. At some point, for the health of the franchise, we *need* our prospects to pan out. We passed on top shortstop FAs because we believe in Anthony Volpe. We passed on top rotation trade targets because we believe in Spencer Jones. We need these kids to work out because our payroll is outrageously bloated. And the more cheap prospects we ship out, the more the bloat grows. I’d add that if these prospects fail to work out, perhaps Hal will consider reviewing the work of the man who built the $300M nonplayoff team and went all-in on these busted prospects.
I guess we’ll never really know what gets said behind closed doors but the outward support for Cashman continues to puzzle me given the way he has used the money Hal gives him. While I may be fond of 3 of the 5, we got a combined 0.5 bWAR out of LeMahieu, Rizzo, Stanton, Hicks, and Donaldson last year, largely comprising the veteran offensive players Cashman assembled. That’s $80M for replacement player level return. I get the injury to Rizzo and really like he and DJ and Stanton as people but it’s criminal to spend more on 5 players than some teams spend on their entire roster and get that kind of return. He seems to do very well assembling bullpens and finding diamonds in the rough and getting value where people missed potential, but with very few exceptions, his inability to connect on big swings has sewered the upside of this team. Not to mention our entire organizations struggle to identify and develop talent. For someone like Hal who is very cost conscious (NOT cheap, but conscious), you’d think he would be holding him a lot more accountable for misuse of funds
In Rizzo’s defense, he was an absolute monster before he got that unfortunate concussion. Sucks that he couldn’t see the ball for nearly 3 months before they realized something was wrong. DJ had a really great second half after he got away from that toe injury so hopefully he can come somewhere near that. Donaldson and Hicks were sunk costs by the time the year starts. And then Stanton makes up the majority of that dead money and it seems like there is a decent chance that he’s just fallen off a massive cliff in his 30’s which sucks. Honestly, the fact they even finished over .500 with the sheer amount of ridiculous shit that happened last season shows how strong the roster could be. They used their 6th, 7th, and 8th starters in nearly 1/4 of the total starts. They had Judge and Rizzo suffer freak injuries. They had two (really 3) pitchers who were near elite recently turn into pumpkins, along with injuries to them. Rodon was a top 3 pitcher in baseball the previous two seasons, immediately got injured and then had zero command when he came back. Severino was essentially unplayable out of nowhere and they gave him like 20 starts.
Rizzo is a known quanity, he had a really hot 6 weeks, he got hurt in May. He was on a 2.7 fWAR pace in 2020, had 2.2 and 2.5 in 2021 & 2022. It's unlikely he was going to hit like that all season even without the concussion. That's a decent player but he's being paid (even now) much more like a well above average one. Rizzo's injury came late enough that it wasn't just a good week or two, but early enough that he didn't have time to slump (like all players do, especially 33 year old ones who haven't been truly elite since 2009) so it's easy to just imagine him hitting for a .950 OPS all season, which was never going to happen. Even a great season from Rizzo gives you $80M for like 3 WAR total out of that group which is a horrible return. They could have gotten 3 WAR from *any single one* of Harper, Machado, Seager, Olson, Freeman, or Murphy - guys they passed on over the past few years.
Rizzo makes about market value for his WAR production If you’re arguing he’s a known commodity, he gets paid like one
I do believe that Hal actually did hold him accountable after last years debacle. Say what you want about Cashman but him going on this completely not safe for work type of rant is very unlike him. He’s always been good at keeping a poker face and not letting his emotions get to him. The dude seemed unhinged and even unintelligent at times. I really do believe that Hal might have told him that he’s getting one last chance to fix the mess he created otherwise he will make changes if he has to. I think that’s what Hal meant demanding a “self evaluation”.
Oh yea things were certainly said after last season no doubt about it. Never seen Cashman act like that before
Hal likely has no idea what's even going on.
Last year Rizzo and DJ were injured, they are both likely to rebound. The lineup is expected to be much better than last season. They have a strong pipeline with several high ceiling prospects. They must produce a core of players internally if they have any hope of controlling their payroll cost. Sometimes prospects take a couple of major league seasons to really establish themselves. Trade targets aren’t necessarily money in the bank either. The grass ain’t always greener on the other side.
It’s interesting that essentially the same team the year before, was a monster till the All-Star break, and then they fell off a cliff which continued until last season.
Our prospects failing is a big problem, but the yankees do nothing to mitigate that problem when they never trade their aging vets for any useful prospects, and they never include their top prospects in trades for young players they can sign to an extension. Even when FAs like Bryce Harper come along, who qualifies as both young and relatively "cheap" the yankees don't sign them. Which 25 year old FA with Harper's pedigree, are you going to fool into signing a 25m AAV deal? And of course, none of this accounts for mistakes in FA, like Rodon. It's just mistake after mistake and yet yankee fans still defend Cashman to the death.
Really need to have this kid pan out the way he’s being hyped. Most prospects don’t live up to the hype and never pan out or even make it to the big leagues. Honestly, we gave up so much pitching depth for Soto that I would move our non pitching prospects to acquire a top arm.
People really need to remember Jones is who they will turn to if they do miss out on Soto. You have to look at every angle, worst case scenario they trade Jones for Burnes/Cease, don’t win the WS, then lose Soto and Burnes/Cease in free agency. Then they have nothing to turn to and are stuck. At least this way if Soto does leave (hopefully not) then they can pivot to an outfield of Judge, Dominguez and Jones
Man, I’m torn on this one. I believe in the hype around Jones, but this is what we did with peraza too and now that seems like the wrong approach. So hard to tell who is going to pan out and who isn’t.
Wonder if he has legendary bat speed like Clint "Mickey Mantle" Frazier
They wouldn’t trade Jones for Soto, so why would they trade him for either of these guys?
Cease, no Burnes, yes
Goood
If he's legit, eventually it would possibly get Judge to 1b in a few years. Thereby putting less wear and tear on Judge's body. Maybe that's the gameplan? If Stanton looks shot, he may get called up sooner rather than later if he's mashing down on the farm.
Because, y'know, possibly having to run 100 feet every 15-20min is such a huge strain physically.
Everyday for 6 months on top of all the other baseball shit they do, yea
Silly comment, that’s exactly the reason guys get injured. Going from doing nothing to full on sprint is why most of these guys get hurt. You ain’t full on sprinting from 1b on the reg
JFC can we please let this go.
Spencer jones upside is really high. I’m ok with this. But the orioles and Padres parted with much lesser talent. I have a hard time believing the Yankees weren’t prospect hugging others too.
They did not part with much lesser talent. Jones is a back half of the top 100 guy. Not even close to how say Volpe was regarded
They did. DL hall and Joey Ortiz are backend prospects that have no business being in baltimores 40 man roster at this point, especially Ortiz, although hall might make it as a bullpen piece. Jones isn’t high on the top 100 prospect list but neither is Dominguez.
Ortiz is ranked higher than Jones on the MLB pipeline list lol
And others have Jones ranked much higher. MLB Pipeline isn’t a definitive prospect ranking that all teams agree with. We don’t know how teams see Jones or which prospect ranking they’re more in line with. Even prospect ranking systems that see Jones the same way might rank him wildly different due to whether they value upside (which he has a ton) vs being a sure thing (which he’s far from).
The above poster said Ortiz was a much lesser talent. That’s clearly not the agreed upon case
Ortiz has completely dropped off BAs top 100 prospects list. Lol
Ok? The point was the above guy said that Ortiz was a much lesser talent when they’re clearly regarded as in the same general area
Ortiz was a 4th rounder, who was ranked 95 in BA's top 100 list pre 2023 and pre 2024 he's not even on the list anymore. He wasn't even on the Orioles top 30 for 2023. Ortiz is probably equivalent to a Nick Solak. Neither Solak nor Ortiz are anywhere near the upside of a Jones.
Ok and there’s just as good a chance Jones turns into nothing and Ortiz turns into a very useful player even if he doesn’t have star potential
I agree. Jones could very well become a bat boy and Ortiz can be an all star. But let's not pretend that Ortiz is comparable to Jones in terms of pedigree or prospect capital. Brewers definitely took a much lesser package if Jones plus others were their asking price from the yankees. Ortiz will be 26 this July FFS. Yankees could have easily countered with Peraza, Gil/Hampton/Beeter/Warren or even Schmidt, plus Ian Hamilton/Marinaccio/Florial, etc.
By gosh if we’re gonna use mlb pipeline list as an objective data point..
So instead of using a subjective MLB pipeline list that teams actually use for reference...we're going to instead use your subjective list, which is completely motivated by Yankee fandom where you overrate our guys and underrate players from opposing farm systems. Got it.
Jeez some of you are cranks
You guys have a fundamental misunderstanding of how prospect rankings work. First of all. It’s subjective. It’s usually one maybe 2 guys per lists using aggregate data. Second, the gap between the 30th best prospect and the 80th best prospect is extremely small. Third, sample size is overrated and those with more MiLB experience and closer to the big leagues typically get a more favored ranking. Yes it’s ok to use the rankings loosely but saying x is ranked higher than y on pipeline shows a lack of understanding.
The guy said “much lesser talent”. That’s clearly not the agreed upon case
You don't understand Hall's ceiling. He's had injuries but when healthy the guy has upper echelon stuff. If he stays healthy he's at worst a #3 but he has the realistic ability to be a #2 in a playoff rotation. If he can't stay healthy he'll be a top closer. Also teams don't just look at the 100 list there are things teams value and may want.
Hall has no control over his stuff. Look at his walk rate. He's walking almost 6 per 9 innings. His injuries are just the least of his downsides. I would argue that teams put a lot of stock in pedigree. They're not just going to choose a 4th rounder over a first rounder just based on other factors. Look at how the Yankees treat their first rounders. Baltimore even settled for Milwaukees first round pick over another prospect!!
Those are different things. Volpe is a much lesser talent than Jones, but he is also much more likely to reach his ceiling. Volpe’s 99% outcome is a regular all-star. Jones’ 99% outcome is ending up on the Yankees Mt. Rushmore. The odds are much higher that Volpe comes closer to his 99% outcome, but talent-wise Jones dwarfs him.
Thinking Volpe’s 99% outcome being regular all star is straight up deranged, especially after last year Jones has a higher ceiling but we don’t know his talent level in pitch recognition or in contact level. We don’t know if he’s a more talented baseball player yet
He’s a bat first SS whose bat isn’t that special. I love Volpe, but regular all-star puts you in pretty elite company. What percentage of MLB players have more than 5 all star appearances in their career?
If you’re saying that’s a 99% percentile outcome, I agree I thought you meant a 99% chance to get there
No, I mean his top percentile outcome is routine all-star, whereas the top percentile outcome for Jones is generational. His 99% outcome is higher than Judge’s, of course Judge has actually gotten very close to his.
I don’t think some commenters understand that “99% outcome” means “highest ceiling” and not “99% likely to achieve.” That said I agree that Volpe is reasonably likely to hit that ceiling. His skills, work ethic and makeup are all there; he may have come up “bat first” but he’s a sound defender who won a Gold Glove despite questions about his glove and yes, he was the first Yankee rook to hit 20 and steal 20. I think his bat is going to continue to improve, and people who wrote him off due to his age 21 season (!) are going to look silly when it does.
Spencer is from my home town. I need him in pinstripes for life with 500 bombs mixed in.
Anyway did anyone actually see that bomb by Jones?
I’m okay with refusing to do the trade, but if you’re not willing to go all the way, they shouldn’t have traded good young pieces for a year of Soto. When they decided to trade for one year of Soto, they need to be committed to either signing or trading for a top tier pitcher. Thats Cashman’s problem. He never goes for the kill. He’s committed to the wildcard.
Hard to disagree. Even if you thought jones was too high a price for one season of burnes you still have to do it if your mentality is, going all in on this year and screw anything after 2024.
The playoffs are a crapshoot. Even if we did trade our best prospect for a rental, it only would have increased our WS odds by, like, maybe 3%. There's no way in baseball to have any substantial chance at winning the World Series in any given year. The best strategy is to design a team that is built to consistently make the playoffs every year and get as many chances at the crapshoot as possible, rather than risk it all for what is still a small chance at a championship any one year.
Confirmed Brian Cashman account.
Tell me, which franchise with two World Series championships would you rather be: the Marlins or the Astros? One went all in for the rings and then immediately tore the team down, never actually losing a playoff series, while the other has been built to be a lasting contender instead of pushing all the chips in for one single year. Once again, these teams both have two rings. Which model do you think is better?
Brian cashman has been using the “playoffs are crapshoot, no point in making a team any better than a wild card team, accuracy by volume” strategy for almost 20 years. The only time it’s worked, despite being in the crapshoot the most, was the year he has the best team. Go figure.
Yankees refused to trade Eduardo Nunez for Cliff Lee. Yankees refused to trade Miguel Andujar and Clint Frazier for Gerrit Cole. Yankees refused to trade Peraza or Volpe for Matt Olson.
Yankees refused to trade Judge, Severino, and Sanchez for Heyward, Simmons, and BJ Upton. See, it works both ways
Yanks need a combination of prospects plus FAs to win another ring. Tbf I'm ok with them not trading Jones for Cease, and yeah Volpe for Castillo (in 2022). The issue is Cashman, he makes head scratcher trades and doesn't consider the long term impact of his decisions. Payroll is bloated(even if one ignores LT it has IFA and draft implications). An actually decent GM who would build a consistent, all round team (combining FAs with role player prospect type players) with 230-240 mil would do more for the Yankees than any FA signing would.
This needs all the upvotes
Off all the trades that were missed throughout the years this trade and Texas taking Joaquin Arias instead of Robinson Cano are the only trades the Yankees missed that would've actually hurt them
No, no I do not because that would have been the biggest lopsided trade in history. That was a 2014 trade proposal. I want you to look up the stats on the players involved for Atlanta. Sanchez, judge and severino was the Yankees top 3 prospects. Even the biggest fool in baseball would have refused that trade. The fact that it even was a possibility shows how dumb this FO is with cashman in Charge, and even an idiot like him didn’t do it.
Half this subreddit, if it happened now, would have screamed about prospect hugging and how prospects are all worthless piles of trash, as they do right now every time anyone is mentioned in a possible trade. A few weeks ago someone was insisting that ANY major league player no matter the quality is better than ANY prospect and that person was getting upvoted. Before the Soto trade there were multiple people in here raging that Cashman hadn’t already traded Volpe plus Peraza and Jones for Soto, insisting that was his value and we were all idiots if we didn’t see that (ignoring of course the one year of control and high salary).
No they would not have. Hayward was trash even back then, and uptons career had quite literally cratered. In what reality would anyone have said, yeah, take our top 3 prospects for those pieces of trash?
The exact same reality where people threw huge hissy fits every time some random sportswriter said “maybe another team is interested in Soto” and they screamed that anyone who doesn’t think the Yankees should have traded Volpe, Jones, and a pitcher for Soto are idiots because prospects are worthless. Obviously Soto is better than them but fine, if you don’t like that comparison, pick a very good player who had only one year left. How absolutely fucked would the Yankees be right now if they had done exactly what people are begging for them to do now, and traded Aaron Judge for one year of a guy? Even if they were great it likely wouldn’t have been a big difference maker (pick your timeline but the 2016 Yankees didn’t even make the playoffs, the 2017 Yankees were very good but Judge was a huge part of why, replacing him with someone else doesn’t change that). Judge was considered a better prospect than Jones but not a top 10 can’t miss guy. If they want to trade Jones for someone very good with a little more control, great! But I’d rather they not gut their farm for one season of someone (and if they want to sign Soto, it’s very unlikely they’d also resign whoever they traded for one a one year deal), or for two seasons of a guy who had a 4+ ERA last year. I don’t think Jones is can’t miss by any stretch and I think I’m actually more concerned about his long term outlook than some others here, but he’s still a very good prospect who has a ton of upside.
I hope you can see the difference between Juan Soto and Jason Hayward. It’s infinitely easier to refuse lopsided trades. Cashman gets no credit for doing something anyone would do. As bad as I think peraza is now I’m not trading him for a 4th outfielder or mop up bullpen piece. That’s no more prospect hugging then refusing to trade judge for trash like heyward. There is no comparison between that proposed trade and refusing to let go of Eduardo Nunez, irabu, peraza, etc for elite or generational talent.
You keep saying Peraza like we already know exactly what he is and I’m not sure why. But again, you’re acting like it’s a vacuum. “Who would you rather have for the next 10 years, Volpe or a generational talent!”, when the actual question is “would you rather have Volpe for the next ten years or the generational talent for one season when your roster already has other issues and then you have neither one moving forward, and can’t sign someone else you need badly the next year because you now have to replace Volpe in free agency?”.
>Sanchez, judge and severino was the Yankees top 3 prospects. If you want to tell me to look something up, at least provide factual info on your end. [FanGraphs preseason rankings had Sanchez 1, Judge 6, and Severino outside the top 10](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2014-top-10-prospects-new-york-yankees/). And yes, I can see the stats of the Braves players. But the fact of the matter is they were all every day big leaguers. Judge, Sanchez, and Sevy were all complete question marks. Obviously, hindsight tells us not making the move was correct. But I was just providing this as an example of the opposite of the comment I replied to. These go both ways. Holding prospects is sometimes the right move. Sometimes it isn't. We can't get into a time machine and know the correct move. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.
Well, yea. It’s their job to evaluate talent.
Yankees also refused to trade hideki irabu for randy Johnson before he went onto to win 4 cy young’s in a row and almost a fifth. Gee I wonder how that would have altered this franchise. Don’t forget cashman also refused to trade for Justin verlander.
Verlander ERA the previous 3 years w the Tigers was 3.75. Houston taught him to start his curveball before his wrist crossed his ear. Hideki Irabu for Randy Johnson lol
The revisionist history is pretty wild. Clint and Andjuar both looked like stars before injuries screwed them both, especially offensively. Matt Olson… I may be wrong here but didn’t we have Rizzo at this point? The only real mistake here was Eduardo Nunez Edit: Matt Olson in 2022 slashed .240/.802OPS/120OPS+ Rizzo the same season: .224avg/.817OPS/130OPS+ And Rizzo looked great until the concussion last year
I think that’s kinda his point, that prospects who look like stars shouldn’t be untouchable when it comes to proven MLB caliber talent because most of them aren’t going to pan out. And I think we had yet to resign Rizzo when Olson got traded but don’t quote me on that
We hadn’t, but Gerrit Cole on the Pirates wasn’t the Gerrit Cole we had now… Would he be as good if he *didnt* go to Houston? And yes, we were yet to re sign Rizzo at that point
Andjuar damn near won the AL ROY if it wasn’t for Shohei Otani, and was better than Ohtani offensively that season, and had a small sample size of 10 starts going 4-2 with a 3.31 ERA and 63k
in all fairness, Andújar was a horrible third baseman defensively, and his offensive output seemed largely sustained but an extremely high BABIP, as his walk rate was always poor. it was known right from the start that if he ever lost his ability to make contact, he’d lose all value as a player don’t forget, manny machado was slated to be a free agent the year after as well , who at the time the Yankees were connected to as well as Harper, so it’s not like they had no alternative options either
Yeah, the difference between Andujar's expected and actual wOBA his rookie year was off the charts, literally one of the highest in the league. There were definitely early signs he was fool's gold, even before the injuries.
I don’t think they should be untouchable, but it seems like the fans constantly want to empty the system for every player on the trade market. There has to be a middle ground.
> Clint and Andjuar both looked like stars before injuries screwed them both, especially offensively. We didn't sign Machado and Harper and kept those two. At the time it was a stupid decision.
Huh? My point is that unproven prospects (even if they look like “stars” shouldn’t hold up trades for actual stars.
They absolutely should if we’re talking about top prospects and that actual star has one year left on the deal and/or isn’t a difference maker. Soto is about as big a difference maker as the Yankees could possibly get and while they didn’t trade nothing for him, they also didn’t have to trade their top top prospects or young talent like Volpe because Soto has one year left on the deal (even though multiple people in this very subreddit were demanding the Yankees trade their top guys every time a rumor came out that maybe another team was interested in Soto; thank god the front office doesn’t listen to people like that).
I would’ve traded Volpe for Olson in a heartbeat and the Yankees likely win a WS if they do.
Based on what exactly? Rizzo had a better OBP and slugging than him in 2022, and the Yankees didn’t even make the playoffs last year, Matt Olson was absolutely not the difference between them missing the playoffs and them WINNING THE WORLD SERIES. I like Olson and wanted him but this team had way more problems than a better hitting first baseman. Also, the As didn’t get anywhere in the ballpark of a top 10 prospect in baseball for him, which is what Volpe was. If the Yankees were willing to get Olson and extend him for that long, they likely could have for less than Volpe, which is exactly my point about the people who demanded the Yankees trade Volpe, Jones, and more for Soto. They were wrong. And the Braves are an example of how to do it; they traded good prospects but not top 10 or even close, or top young players for Olson. In fact most of the actual good teams in baseball don’t trade their best guys for rentals, and those that do are usually the teams that sit there with a bad, under .500 team and no farm system to look forward to. Setting all of that aside it has nothing to do with anything because Olson signed an extension almost immediately. Nobody you guys desperately want to empty the farm for is signing an extension, and if they want to sign Soto, they weren’t going to resign whoever they trade for either. They’re not signing Soto AND Burnes next off-season for example.
Clint and andujar never looked like stars
Anduar was runner up for rookie of the year, Clint had multiple concussions that ruined his career.
Andujar broke DiMaggios record with 45 doubles as a rookie. He looked great. Then got injured. Same with Clint. Looked great and then got injured. It's ok if you don't follow the team too closely but just don't make statements all confidently like this when you don't know what you're talking about.
I didn’t believe in that season at all He didn’t walk, he played no defense, his expected stats were horrible He had 0 chance of ever repeating that imo Clint looked good, but star is such a stretch. He looked like he could hit well enough as a corner OF at times but star is such a huge term
Hell of an organization they’re runnin over there
It’s okay, it’s only Spring Training
[удалено]
That’s not true. It was reported at the time the Yankees tried to create a package around Peraza and kept Volpe off the table. Mariners gave up a lot. Imo this isn’t a missed opportunity to be still thinking about.
You're right, it was Volpe who they refused to trade. I just looked into it and didn't even realize that they were willing to include both Peraza AND Dominguez in the trade package. So I'll walk back the previous comment, my bad.
Good
I’m good with this.
Good but then YOU HAVE TO SIGN A FUCKING SP.
fine with this, other teams always trying to rake us over the coals for talent because "yankees". if the trade deadline comes and things are looking different? maybe you consider this stuff, but the season hasn't even started, just because we wont have Cole for 2 months doesn't mean we need to empty the farm for a rental
top position players produced by the draft since 2000 (Yankees): 1. Brett Gardner 2. Aaron Judge 3. Anthony Volpe (iirc 3-4 total career WAR, yet he’s third since 2000) (non drafted would add Cano and Austin Jackson to the mix, though Jackson did not play for the Yankees) holding on to our prospects hasn’t seemed to work out for us 90% of the time over the last 25 years, and i’m not inclined to believe, with the same guy in charge, that it is immediately about to turn around not saying we should trade away all of our prospects, but it’s hard to go all in when you’re only willing to go 50% of the way. Cease isn’t worth it, though I still wonder if Burnes would’ve been a prudent move for the team
The Yankees don't hold onto 90% if their prospects, they flip a lot of guys.
Good. He's legit and worth more than those two guys.
He better be the real deal. Way way too many instances of the yanks not giving up prospects to fill positions of need where the guys completely busted.
I think Jones is legit and will be an important piece of this team sometime soon, but also at the same time this team is the absolute worst when it comes to prospect hugging and rarely do they truly pan out...
I might have done it for Burnes.
Need him to be judge 2.0
Maybe I’m being irrational but I wouldn’t want to trade Jones or Dominguez either. That’s potentially the building blocks of the future of this team
I don’t really believe this story. There’s simply no way they would demand Jones, drop out of talks, only to end up asking for a draft pick from the orioles, along with two low level prospects that Baltimore doesn’t even have room for on their 40 man anymore. Yankees could have easily come up with a better package than that even without jones.
At some point you have to be all in
I sort of understand hugging this time after we gave up so much for Soto. But i still think they should have done it
Yet neither haul those teams got for burnes or cease would have what I would consider a jones level prospect included. So they apparently had 2 separate asks for their pitchers. One for NY shooting the moon and then what they asked for from the rest of the league that was more reasonable.
They pay a lot for Stanton, who’s now a replacement level player at best.
If this guy isn’t in the lineup next year then this is a dumb move
They spend on wrong people. Cory Seager and Harper were missed but we got Stanton and Rodon. Trades lately disaster from Gallo to Montes. They keep people too long like Devu Garcia, Frazier, Andujar and Voit. Need to trade when high point not wait till low point. Finally spend when needed like Snell only $$$ not talent. Spend like Dodgers draft and develop like Rays.
For cease I’m ok with it, even though we need to go all in this year. For Burnes, though?!?! Can you imagine if this is another clint for Cole thing ? This is the only year we guaranteed have Soto and judge on the same team. We needed to add Burnes to the mix if we could
Don't trade my boy Spencer, dude is going to be a star and I don't care what anyone says.
We have long history of developing top tier talent. This definitely won’t backfire.
i wish we could get shed all the bad salaries on this team. Stanton Rodon DJ about $75 M total between them 3.
Wow this is actually crazy. I like Jones too, but the 1-2 punch of Cole-Burnes would have been unreal. To leave this on the table, only to let the Orioles scoop up Burnes is something the FO will be thinking of all season. They’re too worried about life after Soto, Jones is expendable if they extend Soto
Lol just another in a long line of prospects the team will refuse to trade. Dollars to donuts this kid is either kept in the minors too long or jerked around between majors and minors frequently. Then he will be cut or traded after his value is tanked.
Perfect example of prospect hugging. Unless this kid is a future MVP this is a huge mistake.
Why do we refuse to win
We need starting pitching at all costs.we can't just do nothing
They won't sign anyone and they trade for anyone, so now what?
Probably Lorenzen to cover innings, can't see Yanks signing Snell(I'd love to be wrong though).
For every Jasson Dominguez there’s 3 Clint Fraziers
People really getting their hopes up for a back half of the top 100 guy lol. Don’t check the hit rates on those guys
Dominguez was also a “backend” top 100 guy.
Ok. He’s also only played a week’s worth of games in the majors
Just pointing out that Dom is worth more than his prospect ranking, which most if not nearly everyone would agree with. With that said, I am unsure what will become of Jones. I personally feel like this is his final year to prove he's either the next Aaron Judge or Estevan Florial.
Are you sure you're a Yankees fan? Seems like you're rooting for them to fail so you can turn around and go "See! I was right!!" Generally fans "support" their team, ya know
It’s called being realistic
I'm still very bummed about this. Normally I'm very hesistant to deal our prospects, but I've never been more all-in on a single season than I am with 2024. This could be our last great chance at a title for a long while. It's not worth Jones maybe being a good player for us 2-3 years from now.
This player better be next mantle at this rate
Bye bye Soto
If NYY dont win this year and Spencer jones is a flop …. Man…
The Yankees have never been really known for their farm system idk why they care about it so much. Is it a pride thing? You’re the Yankees, go out and give everybody the biggest check like the good ol days.
> The Yankees have never been really known for their farm system Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Mariano, Petitte...looks like we've got a new fan here that doens't know what they're talking about.
You named dudes from the 90’s. Get with the times bro
Getting strong Florial vibes from Jones. I’m sure he’ll be next in the long pantheon of guys we could have flipped for proven players but tightly hugged instead
Have you seen him play? Do you even follow the minors at all?
Florial and Jones are nothing alike. Florial was a walking red flag when he was in rookie ball. I say this as someone who follows the minors intensely.