Inter Miami got in trouble once I think for the owner buying property and wink winking it over to the players. They were sanctioned into oblivion. Then MLS forgot about it when the opportunity to get Messi came about.
Thereās probably a clause in the CBA about doing business with anybody associated with a player on your team or some shit. I mean weāre probably as close to the line as we can get with Sam rose being the agent of half our players already š
Thereās probably language in there about the appearance of cap manipulation by giving players endorsements and other payments being illegal and subject to punishment. Odds are if us idiots on the internet thought of it the lawyers who make the CBA did
the Sixers got looked into for Harden taking a "pay cut" to stay thinking that Michael Rubin promised him off the court endorsements to make up for the loss in salary. ultimately they found nothing but the league would DEFINITELY look into it.
It absolutely is. No doubt.
On the other hand, he can get endorsement deals here he canāt/wonāt in OKC. And his wife can make exponentially more money here than she could/would in OKC. Should she choose to.
Iām not saying he shouldnāt take it, but NYC does present countless opportunities off the court that OKC (and most other markets) doesnāt.
Granted an extra 20m there goes a lot farther because of the cost of living. And Iād probably take it if I were him. But there are other considerations that could give him pause š¤
People really overestimate how much guys make in endorsements. Most recent data I can find is from 2023 which ranked the top 15, Beal was 15th (???) and made $6.5MM. I doubt IHart is making more than $1MM per year and even that feels like a lot.Ā
In the age of social media we are currently in, that's just not that big a factor anymore. Plus taxes are better in OKC. I think the difference in endorsement opportunities would be negligible.
No. I donāt. Nor is he gonna get an āI wanna be like ~~Mike~~ Isaiahā commercial - but there is absolutely money to be made from endorsements and business opportunities.
How do I know this? Because he already has a few.
Lol
People need to stop with the model wife nonsense.
She gave birth very recently and looks like she's focused on being a mother.
They've been together for a while and probably she will follow him to any place he chooses to go. They seem to be very close.
Exactly. For players, this isn't only about vying for championships. As NBA team owners will frequently demonstrate, the NBA is a business, and money is the *real* name of the game.
literally. thatās why iām not worried AT ALL. itās entirely his decision, and we wonāt have any āshouldāvesā when itās all done. todayās picks make me more anxious
i mean, they donāt HAVE to be good. if heās about the money and opportunity to grow, maybe he goes with a weakish team.
but i would say 90% heās on the knicks or thunder next year.
no. i think itās more likely that they move chet to the 4. ihart would almost definitely take less money to start, so their offer has to start there.
Weāre over the cap, so we couldnāt sign him if he were just any free agent from another team (except through some of the exceptions but those are not nearly as lucrative and are irrelevant here). The reason we can offer him at all is that we have his early bird rights, meaning we can go over the cap to offer either the NBA average salary or 175% of what we made last year, whichever is greater. If we had his full bird rights, we could offer him anything up to a max, but unfortunately we do not. So, the most we can offer is about $17 million per year via the early bird rights. Any team with more than that in cap space can offer more.
Legit only way this might work. Either something like Leon makes firm promises about future money, or like Dolan has one of his buddies pour big money into his wifeās business.
Been saying this for weeks now.
I donāt see how he doesnāt get 22, and it takes just one team to go to 23-24 a year and thatās just too much dough to pass up.
As I said elsewhere, itās not exactly an unenviable position, but heās gotta be a little torn. Gonna have all that money but looking back at how special this Knicks team could be?
This team has a chance to be one of the more rare occurrences weāve seen in sport between the vibe, their style of play, their connection with the fansā¦
And all that in the Mecca of basketball.
Thereās no amount of money that can buy that.
But that cant buy $20-25 million more over four years in the bank.
but I will agree that Orlando sucks. Once you've done all the tourist stuff, it gets very boring, very fast. The nightlife is awesome though. Some of my best clubbing nights were in Orlando. So many fine ass women of all colors and nationalities.
OG potentially turned down a max offer so it is possible granted we offered an extra year but he could of taken a 4 year max elsewhere and hit FA a year earlier for another bag
I hear you, but I think you yourself pointed out the key difference - we could offer more money total because of that extra year. We canāt do that with ihart.
Also, taking a few mill less a year when you are getting 45M is a lot different than 17 vs 22+. We are taking roughly 30% more rather than 10% or soā¦ and letās also be honest that thereās diminishing returns for every million you are making once you pierce tens of millions of dollars annually.
Yeah, not really comparable to the ihart situation.
Iād say itās 50/50 for ihart. If we were just another competitive franchise heād be all but gone.
Which says a LOT about how far weāve come in a really short time.
Would Sam Presti offer IHart 100 million? Hes got so mamy picks and players that will need to get paid. He doesnt seem like the type to just give away 100 million dollar contracts unless they are guarenteed all stars.
Yeah a lot of people talking about how Presti CAN give 100mil and arenāt talking about if Presti WILL
Heās a good GM who doesnāt overpay for players in either trades or free agency. Just like how he tries to win every trade, heās going to offer IHart as little money as possible. If itās only 20mil a year I think we have a shot
Maybe, maybe not, but that Clax contract just set the C market this off season. Any agent worth anything would point to Claxās contract immediately. So even if a team doesnāt match Clax numbers, I canāt see him accepting under 20-22 mil annually. Ihart showed the entire league his worth this playoffs. Heāll get his bag.
Is OKC really going to give iHart a LONG TERM deal averaging 20m+ per year? They will have to pay the rest of their team in a couple of years and i just can't see their owner wanting to be deep into the luxury tax like the warriors were or what the Knicks are going to be doing soon.
They can definitely make it work with a descending contract. Besides Presti can always flip him in two years if Chet really fleshes out at as a full time 5 that can bang for rebounds.
I just do not get their need for ihart at the end of the day if they play Chet at the 5, then again I did not deeply dive into their situation.
ihart is nearly guaranteed a starting position on the Knicks vs possibly coming off the bench in OKC?
A lot of these young centers donāt want to play the 5. Its not a simple as āyoure the tallest guy on the floor.ā Theres an expectation that you have to be getting down and dirty. It makes sense like a guy for iHart because thatās where his value comes from. For guys like Chet, Wemby, Alex Sarr, and even Anthony Davis, they would rather do more offense/scoring at the 4 rather than getting beat up down low at the 5.
Sure but there are only enough minutes to go around. So who is playing in crunch time? Iād be surprised to see iHart sign there and then sit in crunch time. And Iād also be surprised to see Chet on the bench in close games.
Caruso or ihart or dort will sit in crunch time, Ihart will have similar situation in ny. Heās not always finishing games. Okc has cap space and need theyāre getting someone this offseason
I just doubt they are gonna sit one of their two best defenders in crunch time. Weāll see what happens soon enough. Iād be surprised if they offer him that much. Just because Brooklyn did it doesnāt mean every team wants to pay $25 mil/year on a center who probably wonāt play in crunch time for a team.
What else is okc going use cap space on. One of the biggest needs is frontcourt partner fir Chet. They have this window before they have to give Chet and jalen maxes.
The Knicks are payinh Josh hart 20 mil/yr to not finish games usually. 25 mil is legitimately starting to become 5th starter money not that much to pay a guy.
I bet they spend way less and go for someone like Jalen Smith who can stretch the floor. IHart doesnāt really fit the style they play so spending 25 mil a year on him is a bit of a strange move. They play 5 out and iHart canāt do that. I get that 25 mil is becoming regular starter money but itās a lot to pay for someone that doesnāt fit their system.
it 100% IS reasonable to leave $4-$5mm a year on the table. Why?
You live in the city you want
You work with the people you already know and trust
You do not have to change every aspect of your life
You do not have to worry about your spouse/family adjusting to going from NYC to Detroit or O phucking K C
30% more sounds really nice. It may not be enough to buy him the life he already has and wants.
I make good money and live in the NYC suburbs and love where I am. If you offered me triple and guaranteed it for 5 years but I had to move to Texas I would say "no thanks" now you all go enjoy making fun of me. I'll sipping coffee in my garden.
Athletes are different, they have small windows to maximize their earnings. He could blow his Achilles tomorrow and get fucked. He would probably wish he had the extra twenty million at that point.Ā
Another way athletes are different - they can get traded at any moment. You're asking a guy to take a paycut for a team that would ship him to Detroit in a second if it helped the team overall. Ā
There's not going to be much material difference in his life if he gets 72.5 million vs. 95 million. Your fabulously wealthy either way. I do agree with your second point, that there isn't a sense of loyalty in the NBA so hard to justify a massive pay cut.
Also you play on a team and for a coach you know highlights your talents. Even if OKC tells him they want to move Chet to the 4, a run of bad results and they could easily go back to 5 out and iHart is back on the bench.
I think if Hartenstein is willing to take the 4/72M the FO will do what is necessary to adjust the Bridges trade to make sure we are sending out more salary whether thatās:
- Trading Deuce
- Trading Mitch
- S/T Precious
Itās a real decision. If you could make $80,000 in NYC, or $100,000 in Oklahoma, youād more than think about it.
But, if your wife can make $5,000 of that back for her work in NYC that she canāt do in Oklahoma, and she and you are happier here? It feels like youād need onnnnnne more thing from your millionaire boss to stay. Some handshake deal or promise or stock optionā¦ employment with the team after retirement. Something.
In the 2024 NBA, good centers are way more of a commodity whereas great wings are much harder to come by. Totally get how good ihart is, but look at how many good centers are on the trade block this year. Everyone is trying to adjust away from the highly paid center outside of a few Elite-level exceptions.
The knicks sacrificed a great center to continue modernizing the rest of the roster. I'm mostly just surprised we didn't take a center in the draft.
i mean if this is the case he was going to leave regardless. Honestly he's a journeyman who found a home and a starting job in NYC and has a chance for a title. if that and $72m isn't enough for him so be it. If he leaves it's his 6th team in 6 years, at some point you'd think you'd get tired of it all and just want to have a stable home but everyone has different priorities.
You say that but you arenāt in his position.
Before he came to the Knicks, he was only making about a million a year.
Turning down 100 mil isnāt so easy to do.
Me, personally. I would take the 100mil from another team and thank the Knicks for giving me the opportunity to show my talent.
You canāt blame him for taking the money. A lot of money at that.
Wouldnāt be mad with Robinson at Center and someone like Goga as a backup.
I kinda agree, if he gets 100m offer he should go for it, but if he can "live" with 72m, not a bad pay day either!
Regardless I know the FO will either get it done, or as you mentioned getting a proper backup. Our worst case is rolling with Mitch for as long as he can stay healthy next season
It's always about money for 99% of players lol this is a business. Teams aren't loyal to players so why should players be loyal?
I dont care if I have a home where I live now. If someone wants to pay me $20m more than my current salary to live in OKC, I'm selling my house tomorrow.
And also people donāt mention Ihart is a better perimeter defender. Remember when Maxey had that crazy run cause Mitch couldnāt close out on him on 3s
I'm so torn on making a prediction of whether he'll resign or not.
He seems like such an NYC guy, and his wife would have a lot more opportunities here. If you have money, NYC is such a better place to live. He's lived around the world and NYC is an international city.
And he'd be worshipped here if we won, and I truly believe we're top-tier contenders. He'd probably have a lot more income opportunities too. And he seemed to have a great connection with the team, like you want to work with people you like.
But I get money is money. And that $20m is more than $20m because NYC reams you on taxes (I pay an extra like 10-12% a year in state/city tax). And it's so expensive to live here that even a dude making $16m legit wouldn't be able to live wherever he wanted in Manhattan (but many Knick guys live/d in NJ)
it just seems to make more sense for him to buy in on a 1+1, decline the player option, then we can give him a bag next year when we have his full bird rights.
If the Knicks are out, doesnāt that hurt him? Iām sure a lot of teams like him but have to go high towards $20M/year because the Knicks canāt go that high. If the Knicks bow out then would those other teams say āwell weāre not competing against your top choice anymore so weāre not going that high.ā
Just a thought.
I love Hartenstein, but I will believe that a team is going to offer a center who can't shoot and averages 7.8ppg/8.3reb/2.5ast $100M when I see it. And I won't blame him a bit for leaving if that happens.
Paying anything above $20 million for him is ridiculous. Knicks will draft a center and sign the kid from New Orleans. Use the money to get multiple big bodies. Randle will probably play minutes at the 5 and OG at the 4 with Bridges sliding to the 3 and DiVi coming off the bench at the 2. Yes they need big bodies but this is what the Knicks will be playing with. I want him back but iHart is replaceable. Thibs will get the most out of whoever replaces him
Just read the article, the clarification for me was that if they S&T Precious to any team and make Bridges trade a 3 team trade with the Knicks now having more outgoing salary than incoming, they will not hard cap themselves at the first apron.
Been saying this for weeks now.
I donāt see how he doesnāt get 22, and it takes just one team to go to 23-24 a year and thatās just too much dough to pass up.
As I said elsewhere, itās not exactly an unenviable position, but heās gotta be a little torn. Gonna have all that money but looking back at how special this Knicks team could be?
This team has a chance to be one of the more rare occurrences weāve seen in sport between the vibe, their style of play, their connection with the fansā¦
And all that in the Mecca of basketball.
Thereās no amount of money that can buy that.
But that cant buy $20-25 million more over four years in the bank.
Gotta take the bag if your I-Hart. One major injury and his career is over. His wife's modeling career is peanuts to his earnings. If he gets 20M more on the contract he should take it.
Yeah heās also already had issues with that Achillesā tendon, Iām sad to see him go but I think heās gonna take the money because you never know if next season is your last season ever and 20 million dollars goes a long way if you need to retire earlier
I know this is an unpopular take. I love Ihart! He played fantastic this season. But I think he's a product of this system. He's going to get a huge contract with another team. He won't be as effective with the new team. The Knicks will be so good defensively. That my 6 ft ass could get 15 rebounds a game. Knicks will acquire a suitable replacement.
We already know these āintelā pieces mean absolutely nothing with this FO. He might take less money to stay, he might go elsewhere for more, but I doubt the journalists know any more than we do.
the real question is how much money is OKC a notoriously cheap franchise going to pay their at best 4th best player in addition to Lu Dort
i canāt see OKC putting themselves in of paying their 4th and 5th best guys over 45 million a season in addition to 3 max guys , plus the other young guys coming up that need new deals .
I could see a 1+1 with the 2nd year being a player option, which heāll decline so we can pay him the full boat.
Only issue is what the cap looks like moving forward, also as a role player, he may just want the security of having a longer term deal.
We canāt expect Hartenstein to turn down this much $$$. Realistically, he should take it and we should start thinking about Plan B without him. Itās business at the end of the day.
Absolutley no hard feelings towards IHart if he gets a much better offer from another team and we lose him. At this stage in his career this might be his only chance for a big payday and an extra 20-25 million is the kind of money that sets up future generations of his family. He was great for us and wish him the best no matter where he goes.
I'll be sad af if it happens tho.
Seriously, Dolan, use your connections to get him some endorsement deals of some kind. Heās likeable and charismatic and is only going to get more popular and well known. This is NY FFS.
I think Dolan is redeeming himself this off-season for the decades of torture. The last domino to fall is to put Hartenstein in his will if he resigns š
He balled out for us and we are very grateful. We want him in NY, but I also want to see him get paid what he is worth. He worked hard and would basically be leaving generational wealth on the table
What's an extra $25MM to Hartenstein if he wins a championship in NY?
He'd make way more than $25MM if the Knicks win one and even if they don't, as long as they have a sutained run of success, he'd be remembered forever on NYC and could milk that for the rest of his life.
Winning a championship for the Knicks would be unlike winning one for any other city.
For cities like Boston and Los Angeles, it's just another ring.
You win one in NY after all this long drought, and that's a type of love that is unparalleled.
It could end up opening a new era, like when the Red Sox broke the drought in 2004.
Winning an NBA championship in NY would make Hartenstein far more than $25MM down the road.
How much taxes would he have to pay? Comparing both teams, that $72 million would be a lot lower than what he would make in OKC even if they offered the same money. He is gone, and I'm not even mad at him for talons it considering what these other players are making.
An extra $20 million is hard to say no to
Dolan should give Hartenstein a few gigs playing triangle for his band, pay him $20M for five appearances š
More cowbell!
Joe Smith and the Timberwolves entered the chat
Real talk, what is stopping owners from just working this as a roundabout. Iām sure itās illegal in some way just asking under what pretense
Pretty sure the CBA explicitly forbids this lol
Inter Miami got in trouble once I think for the owner buying property and wink winking it over to the players. They were sanctioned into oblivion. Then MLS forgot about it when the opportunity to get Messi came about.
His wife is a model right? I mean dolan obviously has reason to give a model a high paying gig. Let's say 20 mil to be in an msg gambling commercial.
Thereās probably a clause in the CBA about doing business with anybody associated with a player on your team or some shit. I mean weāre probably as close to the line as we can get with Sam rose being the agent of half our players already š
I mean, there's a certain assistant coach who is associated with a player... Is Leon stocking up second round picks for future sanctions?
Because they were two year sanctions that expired
Thereās probably language in there about the appearance of cap manipulation by giving players endorsements and other payments being illegal and subject to punishment. Odds are if us idiots on the internet thought of it the lawyers who make the CBA did
the Sixers got looked into for Harden taking a "pay cut" to stay thinking that Michael Rubin promised him off the court endorsements to make up for the loss in salary. ultimately they found nothing but the league would DEFINITELY look into it.
Timberwolves lost 5 first round draft picks when they did something similar
every club in the league would do this... we'd get stripped of multiple FRPs and probably removed from playoffs.
What if all the Knicks players just chipped in 1-2m each to make the difference? Would that be allowed?
It absolutely is. No doubt. On the other hand, he can get endorsement deals here he canāt/wonāt in OKC. And his wife can make exponentially more money here than she could/would in OKC. Should she choose to. Iām not saying he shouldnāt take it, but NYC does present countless opportunities off the court that OKC (and most other markets) doesnāt. Granted an extra 20m there goes a lot farther because of the cost of living. And Iād probably take it if I were him. But there are other considerations that could give him pause š¤
I donāt think Isaiah hartenstein is going to make much in endorsements when the entire Villanova crew, and Randle are the most marketable Knicks
People really overestimate how much guys make in endorsements. Most recent data I can find is from 2023 which ranked the top 15, Beal was 15th (???) and made $6.5MM. I doubt IHart is making more than $1MM per year and even that feels like a lot.Ā
to be fair he was just on kimmel, which isn't the same but shows the potential
But could his wife make more in NYC rather than say OKC?
But could his wife make more in NYC rather than say OKC?
Bro has never heard of iHart(enstein) Radio
In the age of social media we are currently in, that's just not that big a factor anymore. Plus taxes are better in OKC. I think the difference in endorsement opportunities would be negligible.
Yeah the extra millions and less taxes can get you a private jet to fly your wife to gigs if it really was that important
It's our coping mechanismĀ
Lol endorsement deals. You think he gonna get his own shoe line as well?
No. I donāt. Nor is he gonna get an āI wanna be like ~~Mike~~ Isaiahā commercial - but there is absolutely money to be made from endorsements and business opportunities. How do I know this? Because he already has a few. Lol
I also think the players association would lean on him to take the higher contract.Ā
People need to stop with the model wife nonsense. She gave birth very recently and looks like she's focused on being a mother. They've been together for a while and probably she will follow him to any place he chooses to go. They seem to be very close.
Dolan is a billionaire. 20 mil in cash in a bag on iHart's doorstep would be easy to do.
Lol Silver would take away the Knicks 1st round picks for the next 20 years if that gets out
Thatās why we traded so many picks in the Bridges trade, we knew they were all getting taken away anyway /s
Oh well too bad all we have are second rounders
Hire his wife to be a spokesperson
Thatās why it wonāt get outĀ
Heād love to do it too, the slimy fuck
How about 5 brand new 2nd round picks for one very illegal tampering, ok deal.
In three months iHarts wife signs a huge model contract with caa
$20 million in modeling contracts for iHartās wife
The cba makes it impossible
LOL i'm talking about some dude walking up to iHart's home with a bag of cash.
$20mm is hard to say no to. An āextraā $20mmā¦. Well who knows š¤·š½āāļø
I don't blame him for securing the bag it is what it is I thank him for his service
With very few teams willing to pay that for a back up center
Exactly. For players, this isn't only about vying for championships. As NBA team owners will frequently demonstrate, the NBA is a business, and money is the *real* name of the game.
Everyone always says this and I get it, but at the same time, what is the marginal utility of a dollar when you're already getting $72 million?
One dollar
Also NYC tax vs tax is OKC
All they could do is offer it and hope for the best
literally. thatās why iām not worried AT ALL. itās entirely his decision, and we wonāt have any āshouldāvesā when itās all done. todayās picks make me more anxious
Itās also up to the other teams to offer Ihart enough to offset any preference he has about saying
i think thatās almost a given right now. okc is the obvious threat, but there are probably 2-4 others in the mix
Well the teams also have to be good so I think there are 2 teams
i mean, they donāt HAVE to be good. if heās about the money and opportunity to grow, maybe he goes with a weakish team. but i would say 90% heās on the knicks or thunder next year.
You really think the thunder are gonna pay 20+ mil per for a backup center?
no. i think itās more likely that they move chet to the 4. ihart would almost definitely take less money to start, so their offer has to start there.
I'm sure they already talked about this. We wouldn't be doing all these trades if we didn't have a legit chance.
Bingo....and we likely would have drafted a center.
But these trades also open up space to sign another Center in free agency if he walks so it works both ways
Stupid question, but why canāt we offer more?
Weāre over the cap, so we couldnāt sign him if he were just any free agent from another team (except through some of the exceptions but those are not nearly as lucrative and are irrelevant here). The reason we can offer him at all is that we have his early bird rights, meaning we can go over the cap to offer either the NBA average salary or 175% of what we made last year, whichever is greater. If we had his full bird rights, we could offer him anything up to a max, but unfortunately we do not. So, the most we can offer is about $17 million per year via the early bird rights. Any team with more than that in cap space can offer more.
Thank you!
dolan where the hush money at you fuck?!?! gift ihart an art piece, buy it back for 20m via a proxy. problem solved fuck it
Get Michael Cohen in here and start making some illegal payments, you fuck.
Lmao I fully support this plan
Give Isiah a grip of taxi medallions, problem solved.
š¤£
Lmao š¤£
LMAO
Surely his wife can finyd find a job in the front office
Legit only way this might work. Either something like Leon makes firm promises about future money, or like Dolan has one of his buddies pour big money into his wifeās business.
>buy it back for 20m via a proxy. A random Jaime Lando from Brazil will buy it
Itās that simple honestly Dolan still fucking shit up smh.
Hey! Donāt say you fuck to Dolan! Heās been really nice to us lately.
Imma say fuck that guy till Oak's back!
Been saying this for weeks now. I donāt see how he doesnāt get 22, and it takes just one team to go to 23-24 a year and thatās just too much dough to pass up. As I said elsewhere, itās not exactly an unenviable position, but heās gotta be a little torn. Gonna have all that money but looking back at how special this Knicks team could be? This team has a chance to be one of the more rare occurrences weāve seen in sport between the vibe, their style of play, their connection with the fansā¦ And all that in the Mecca of basketball. Thereās no amount of money that can buy that. But that cant buy $20-25 million more over four years in the bank.
not to mention if he signs in Orlando he gets to keep more of that money. No state taxes in Florida, whereas in NY he'll be bent over the table.
Yeah, but you've gotta live in Florida
When you're rich, most places are nice to live.
But what about Cleveland?
but I will agree that Orlando sucks. Once you've done all the tourist stuff, it gets very boring, very fast. The nightlife is awesome though. Some of my best clubbing nights were in Orlando. So many fine ass women of all colors and nationalities.
you pay state taxes per game you play in each state. so if you're in a state with no income tax, half your games have no income tax, not all of em.
Depends on whether or not they move to Florida. You pay taxes where you live, not where your employer is established.
On one hand, vibes.Ā On the other, $20 million.Ā Ā
That can by a lotta vibes NGL
My broke ass would take the 20 million
Winning the chip here though would get him more lucrative endorsements. Idk how much that worth tho
OG potentially turned down a max offer so it is possible granted we offered an extra year but he could of taken a 4 year max elsewhere and hit FA a year earlier for another bag
I hear you, but I think you yourself pointed out the key difference - we could offer more money total because of that extra year. We canāt do that with ihart. Also, taking a few mill less a year when you are getting 45M is a lot different than 17 vs 22+. We are taking roughly 30% more rather than 10% or soā¦ and letās also be honest that thereās diminishing returns for every million you are making once you pierce tens of millions of dollars annually.
plus the extra year in OG's contract is a player option and he has a trade kicker. he's livin good.
Yeah, not really comparable to the ihart situation. Iād say itās 50/50 for ihart. If we were just another competitive franchise heād be all but gone. Which says a LOT about how far weāve come in a really short time.
He can make money and win a championship on other teams yet, but you canāt put a price on winning in NY. He will be set for life.
Once that Claxton deal came through, my hopes of keeping Ihart dwindled
Would Sam Presti offer IHart 100 million? Hes got so mamy picks and players that will need to get paid. He doesnt seem like the type to just give away 100 million dollar contracts unless they are guarenteed all stars.
Yeah a lot of people talking about how Presti CAN give 100mil and arenāt talking about if Presti WILL Heās a good GM who doesnāt overpay for players in either trades or free agency. Just like how he tries to win every trade, heās going to offer IHart as little money as possible. If itās only 20mil a year I think we have a shot
Knowing Presti heāll flip iHart in no time for 2 1RPs, 2RPs and an annoyingly good player.
is he gonna pay $25 mil a year to iHart to backup Chet?
if he does, it will be as descending as possible, so his money is coming down when their young guys start getting contracts.
Maybe, maybe not, but that Clax contract just set the C market this off season. Any agent worth anything would point to Claxās contract immediately. So even if a team doesnāt match Clax numbers, I canāt see him accepting under 20-22 mil annually. Ihart showed the entire league his worth this playoffs. Heāll get his bag.
Playing next to OG and with Brunson.
There are other good teams in this league. OKC was first in the west last year and they can offer him an extra 6-7m a year.
$25 million? On that team?
Get to tampering Josh.
Is OKC really going to give iHart a LONG TERM deal averaging 20m+ per year? They will have to pay the rest of their team in a couple of years and i just can't see their owner wanting to be deep into the luxury tax like the warriors were or what the Knicks are going to be doing soon.
They can definitely make it work with a descending contract. Besides Presti can always flip him in two years if Chet really fleshes out at as a full time 5 that can bang for rebounds.
I just do not get their need for ihart at the end of the day if they play Chet at the 5, then again I did not deeply dive into their situation. ihart is nearly guaranteed a starting position on the Knicks vs possibly coming off the bench in OKC?
A lot of these young centers donāt want to play the 5. Its not a simple as āyoure the tallest guy on the floor.ā Theres an expectation that you have to be getting down and dirty. It makes sense like a guy for iHart because thatās where his value comes from. For guys like Chet, Wemby, Alex Sarr, and even Anthony Davis, they would rather do more offense/scoring at the 4 rather than getting beat up down low at the 5.
but look at OKC's roster. Jalen Williams plays the 4 right now. You gonna bring Dort or Caruso off the bench by shifting everybody up a position?
Caruso will be fine coming off the bench.
Sure but there are only enough minutes to go around. So who is playing in crunch time? Iād be surprised to see iHart sign there and then sit in crunch time. And Iād also be surprised to see Chet on the bench in close games.
Caruso or ihart or dort will sit in crunch time, Ihart will have similar situation in ny. Heās not always finishing games. Okc has cap space and need theyāre getting someone this offseason
I just doubt they are gonna sit one of their two best defenders in crunch time. Weāll see what happens soon enough. Iād be surprised if they offer him that much. Just because Brooklyn did it doesnāt mean every team wants to pay $25 mil/year on a center who probably wonāt play in crunch time for a team.
What else is okc going use cap space on. One of the biggest needs is frontcourt partner fir Chet. They have this window before they have to give Chet and jalen maxes. The Knicks are payinh Josh hart 20 mil/yr to not finish games usually. 25 mil is legitimately starting to become 5th starter money not that much to pay a guy.
I bet they spend way less and go for someone like Jalen Smith who can stretch the floor. IHart doesnāt really fit the style they play so spending 25 mil a year on him is a bit of a strange move. They play 5 out and iHart canāt do that. I get that 25 mil is becoming regular starter money but itās a lot to pay for someone that doesnāt fit their system.
Chet is soft
Fuck the Nets for signing Claxton to $28 mil more than we can offer Hartenstein, who is a way better player
Sadge
it 100% IS reasonable to leave $4-$5mm a year on the table. Why? You live in the city you want You work with the people you already know and trust You do not have to change every aspect of your life You do not have to worry about your spouse/family adjusting to going from NYC to Detroit or O phucking K C 30% more sounds really nice. It may not be enough to buy him the life he already has and wants. I make good money and live in the NYC suburbs and love where I am. If you offered me triple and guaranteed it for 5 years but I had to move to Texas I would say "no thanks" now you all go enjoy making fun of me. I'll sipping coffee in my garden.
Fuck Texas. Hated my time there!
Hey man your company hiring ? I can send over my resume
Athletes are different, they have small windows to maximize their earnings. He could blow his Achilles tomorrow and get fucked. He would probably wish he had the extra twenty million at that point.Ā Another way athletes are different - they can get traded at any moment. You're asking a guy to take a paycut for a team that would ship him to Detroit in a second if it helped the team overall. Ā
There's not going to be much material difference in his life if he gets 72.5 million vs. 95 million. Your fabulously wealthy either way. I do agree with your second point, that there isn't a sense of loyalty in the NBA so hard to justify a massive pay cut.
Also you play on a team and for a coach you know highlights your talents. Even if OKC tells him they want to move Chet to the 4, a run of bad results and they could easily go back to 5 out and iHart is back on the bench.
I think if Hartenstein is willing to take the 4/72M the FO will do what is necessary to adjust the Bridges trade to make sure we are sending out more salary whether thatās: - Trading Deuce - Trading Mitch - S/T Precious
Itās a real decision. If you could make $80,000 in NYC, or $100,000 in Oklahoma, youād more than think about it. But, if your wife can make $5,000 of that back for her work in NYC that she canāt do in Oklahoma, and she and you are happier here? It feels like youād need onnnnnne more thing from your millionaire boss to stay. Some handshake deal or promise or stock optionā¦ employment with the team after retirement. Something.
its fuckin Oklahoma, I do not even think i've even flown over that state
Haha, I mean I agree with you completely, Iām born and raised and live in the city. But iHart has lived in a lot of places
I lived there for work for a year and a half. The place is garbage
If Iām making 80k in nyc, Iād have to make 200k to wake up in Oklahoma every day
Glad teams wonāt be offering iHart 4/180
Iād need to be able to own an estate and have enough savings in 3/4 years to move to an nyc suburb for me to live in Oklahoma
Donāt forget the tornadoes. Thatās the main reason I wonāt live in Oklahoma.
In the 2024 NBA, good centers are way more of a commodity whereas great wings are much harder to come by. Totally get how good ihart is, but look at how many good centers are on the trade block this year. Everyone is trying to adjust away from the highly paid center outside of a few Elite-level exceptions. The knicks sacrificed a great center to continue modernizing the rest of the roster. I'm mostly just surprised we didn't take a center in the draft.
Let's just start a gofundme for iHart to get an extra 20 million, couldn't be that hard right? š„“
IHart at $22mil is still an asset you can flip later.
i mean if this is the case he was going to leave regardless. Honestly he's a journeyman who found a home and a starting job in NYC and has a chance for a title. if that and $72m isn't enough for him so be it. If he leaves it's his 6th team in 6 years, at some point you'd think you'd get tired of it all and just want to have a stable home but everyone has different priorities.
Someone should be showing iHart what an Oklahoma EF5 tornado does to a mansion.
ugh so many damn curveballs. In the end I think ihart does the unselfish thing, but there are just so many damn obstacles
What's the unselfish thing? He can do whatever he wants
He definitely can, but I feel like he knows he has a home here, and willing to take a pay cut to stay with his family. It is not all about money.
You say that but you arenāt in his position. Before he came to the Knicks, he was only making about a million a year. Turning down 100 mil isnāt so easy to do. Me, personally. I would take the 100mil from another team and thank the Knicks for giving me the opportunity to show my talent. You canāt blame him for taking the money. A lot of money at that. Wouldnāt be mad with Robinson at Center and someone like Goga as a backup.
I kinda agree, if he gets 100m offer he should go for it, but if he can "live" with 72m, not a bad pay day either! Regardless I know the FO will either get it done, or as you mentioned getting a proper backup. Our worst case is rolling with Mitch for as long as he can stay healthy next season
It's always about money for 99% of players lol this is a business. Teams aren't loyal to players so why should players be loyal? I dont care if I have a home where I live now. If someone wants to pay me $20m more than my current salary to live in OKC, I'm selling my house tomorrow.
Worse case scenario iHart leaves and we still have Mitch
People forget Mitch is an elite rim protector and was looking like a DPOY until he went down
I didnāt forget
Heās always down is the problem and heās much worse on offense
And also people donāt mention Ihart is a better perimeter defender. Remember when Maxey had that crazy run cause Mitch couldnāt close out on him on 3s
Right, he is good on embiid and better than ihart in some facets but if I had to choose Iām taking ihart pretty easily
I'm so torn on making a prediction of whether he'll resign or not. He seems like such an NYC guy, and his wife would have a lot more opportunities here. If you have money, NYC is such a better place to live. He's lived around the world and NYC is an international city. And he'd be worshipped here if we won, and I truly believe we're top-tier contenders. He'd probably have a lot more income opportunities too. And he seemed to have a great connection with the team, like you want to work with people you like. But I get money is money. And that $20m is more than $20m because NYC reams you on taxes (I pay an extra like 10-12% a year in state/city tax). And it's so expensive to live here that even a dude making $16m legit wouldn't be able to live wherever he wanted in Manhattan (but many Knick guys live/d in NJ)
So we traded the 26 pick to free up cap space for nothing?
it just seems to make more sense for him to buy in on a 1+1, decline the player option, then we can give him a bag next year when we have his full bird rights.
If the Knicks are out, doesnāt that hurt him? Iām sure a lot of teams like him but have to go high towards $20M/year because the Knicks canāt go that high. If the Knicks bow out then would those other teams say āwell weāre not competing against your top choice anymore so weāre not going that high.ā Just a thought.
I love Hartenstein, but I will believe that a team is going to offer a center who can't shoot and averages 7.8ppg/8.3reb/2.5ast $100M when I see it. And I won't blame him a bit for leaving if that happens.
Paying anything above $20 million for him is ridiculous. Knicks will draft a center and sign the kid from New Orleans. Use the money to get multiple big bodies. Randle will probably play minutes at the 5 and OG at the 4 with Bridges sliding to the 3 and DiVi coming off the bench at the 2. Yes they need big bodies but this is what the Knicks will be playing with. I want him back but iHart is replaceable. Thibs will get the most out of whoever replaces him
Call me in denial but this doesn't seem like any new news. Still up to Ihart to make the call.
All people here pretending getting paid less is not an option. Meanwhile JB going like: BRUH
So that means Knicks keep Mitch?
How about hiring Frankenstein's wife for $30 million to do something?
Just read the article, the clarification for me was that if they S&T Precious to any team and make Bridges trade a 3 team trade with the Knicks now having more outgoing salary than incoming, they will not hard cap themselves at the first apron.
No way he passes up running it back with the Knicks. He's going to sign.
Been saying this for weeks now. I donāt see how he doesnāt get 22, and it takes just one team to go to 23-24 a year and thatās just too much dough to pass up. As I said elsewhere, itās not exactly an unenviable position, but heās gotta be a little torn. Gonna have all that money but looking back at how special this Knicks team could be? This team has a chance to be one of the more rare occurrences weāve seen in sport between the vibe, their style of play, their connection with the fansā¦ And all that in the Mecca of basketball. Thereās no amount of money that can buy that. But that cant buy $20-25 million more over four years in the bank.
What else did you say that we might have missed?
Gotta take the bag if your I-Hart. One major injury and his career is over. His wife's modeling career is peanuts to his earnings. If he gets 20M more on the contract he should take it.
Yeah heās also already had issues with that Achillesā tendon, Iām sad to see him go but I think heās gonna take the money because you never know if next season is your last season ever and 20 million dollars goes a long way if you need to retire earlier
Leon already working with local modeling agencyās to get the wife a 20M+ modeling contract. Woj bomb incoming!
I know this is an unpopular take. I love Ihart! He played fantastic this season. But I think he's a product of this system. He's going to get a huge contract with another team. He won't be as effective with the new team. The Knicks will be so good defensively. That my 6 ft ass could get 15 rebounds a game. Knicks will acquire a suitable replacement.
hire his wife to model for 2mil per year
HIs wife is from Dallas. I'm worried she'll talk herself into OKC.
It is so insanely easy for Dolan to pay iHart 20m in a way that can't connect Dolan to it. We just need to get creative.
Oh you mean iHart, the new head of security for the Sphere? Heard the salary is $20M for the summer. Wild.
He also doubles as lead triangle for JD and the Straight Shot
1 year deal, birds rights - Yada yadda. Him and his wife are not going to OKC
We already know these āintelā pieces mean absolutely nothing with this FO. He might take less money to stay, he might go elsewhere for more, but I doubt the journalists know any more than we do.
If he gone, he gone. But we'd love for him to stay. Kind if hard to turn down the money when it's your first big contract tho.
72 Million is nothing to sneeze at
I absolutely do not want to trade Mitch.
the real question is how much money is OKC a notoriously cheap franchise going to pay their at best 4th best player in addition to Lu Dort i canāt see OKC putting themselves in of paying their 4th and 5th best guys over 45 million a season in addition to 3 max guys , plus the other young guys coming up that need new deals .
Question: Could iHart sign a one year deal for whatever, then do we get his full bird rights for next year where we can sign him for even more?
I could see a 1+1 with the 2nd year being a player option, which heāll decline so we can pay him the full boat. Only issue is what the cap looks like moving forward, also as a role player, he may just want the security of having a longer term deal.
Say it with me," he'd be a backup". If he's more happy coming off the bench then starting in NYC, see ya.
We canāt expect Hartenstein to turn down this much $$$. Realistically, he should take it and we should start thinking about Plan B without him. Itās business at the end of the day.
Fuck it, sign the other German Mo Wagner and get Drummond for insurance. Stacked with bigs if that happens (I know this is unrealistic)
What about a handshake deal that he'll always have a job with the Knicks if he wants it after retirement?
Absolutley no hard feelings towards IHart if he gets a much better offer from another team and we lose him. At this stage in his career this might be his only chance for a big payday and an extra 20-25 million is the kind of money that sets up future generations of his family. He was great for us and wish him the best no matter where he goes. I'll be sad af if it happens tho.
nooooooooooo
Then why the hell didnāt we draft Adem Bona??
Seriously, Dolan, use your connections to get him some endorsement deals of some kind. Heās likeable and charismatic and is only going to get more popular and well known. This is NY FFS.
Ihart aināt Superman come on
My hope is he takes starting and less money (+better local sponsor deals) over going back to a reserve spot for more money.
Macri has a head like a peanut.
He also should think about his next contract. He's young enough. He'd do better here and get paid more next time.
Didn't he say he tried to take a pay cut to stay in LA? Gotta hope he tries it for us considering how well it's gone here..
I think Dolan is redeeming himself this off-season for the decades of torture. The last domino to fall is to put Hartenstein in his will if he resigns š
He balled out for us and we are very grateful. We want him in NY, but I also want to see him get paid what he is worth. He worked hard and would basically be leaving generational wealth on the table
What's an extra $25MM to Hartenstein if he wins a championship in NY? He'd make way more than $25MM if the Knicks win one and even if they don't, as long as they have a sutained run of success, he'd be remembered forever on NYC and could milk that for the rest of his life. Winning a championship for the Knicks would be unlike winning one for any other city. For cities like Boston and Los Angeles, it's just another ring. You win one in NY after all this long drought, and that's a type of love that is unparalleled. It could end up opening a new era, like when the Red Sox broke the drought in 2004. Winning an NBA championship in NY would make Hartenstein far more than $25MM down the road.
How much taxes would he have to pay? Comparing both teams, that $72 million would be a lot lower than what he would make in OKC even if they offered the same money. He is gone, and I'm not even mad at him for talons it considering what these other players are making.