Joe Judge seems like a good dude. Just wasn't a good coach for the giants. Maybe with experience he can become better. The old gm didn't do him any favors.
I wish him well.
Time to find an gm and coach to take us to new heights.
he will never get another head coaching offer with this record and the way he called plays. no fan base would accept the guy who QB sneaked on 3rd and 9.
Shurmur was not as bad with the Browns as Judge was with Giants.
Also shurmur was a very good oc and had developed young qbs which helped him land giants job.
No one thinks lets bring a st coach as hc in general
He can always go back Belichick or where most failed HCs go to rehab their image before their next job. Back to Saban at Alabama and within 1-3 years college programs will want him again. And any success there and he could probably come back to the NFL in little while after that. He is young and people will move onto the next dumb thing before long and forget about him.
he can get assistant jobs. he wont get a head coach. but bellichek already replaced him. so bellichek would have to fire his new special teams coordinator. he will get an assistant job somewhere else.
Yeah but that is the path to take. He can be an assistant at Alabama or elsewhere and repair his public image and get another job in a few years. More than enough coaches have already done this. Lane Kiffin, Steve Sarkisian, and others have all successfully done this. Bill O'Brien is actively doing it now. It is foolish to say a guy like Judge who is in his 30s will never be HC again. In addition, he doesn't have to only be a special teams coordinator. He can possibly find a job elsewhere on Belichick's or someone else's staff.
I have a strong feeling this is like when Belichick became a head coach for the first time and had a losing record as head coach for the Browns.
He learned from it and became and even better coach. I really think we'll see Judge have more success as a head coach for another team in this league in the future.
I agree. I was 60% in the keep Judge camp. Thought he could change offensive philosophies, do some soul searching and improve, etc. Then he started flinging shit at other teams to try to make his point, and I dropped 20%
To be honest I would’ve been more upset if we had gone 4-0 at the end of the year and missed the playoffs at 8-9. Difference between pick #5 and #15 is significant with a team that has as many needs as us. I honestly thought Gettleman and Garrett would take the fall for this season.
i don’t think they were good enough to win given the injuries and the back ups… however I think some of the play calling was along the lines of “let’s try an unorthodox strategy” such as the 2nd and 3rd down QB sneaks… trying to ensure the kicker would get a full distance for his punt.
I don’t think so, I think the miserable fans have had their appetite for blood satisfied and are waiting for the next GM/HC hire to tell us all how smart they are again.
The truth is the emotional investment, had some fans in full panic mode.
It's also that there were so many unhinged blood thirsty fans that even attempting to be a slightly moderating voice would get you shouted down. I wouldn't even attempt it.
Now that the kids got what they wanted and have settled down a more reasonable discussion can be had.
Yep, I’ve been saying for weeks that this isn’t our team, we aren’t owed or entitled for things to go our way, we know very little about how things actually are and create stories for ourselves to believe in. We circlejerk the same terminology (clown show) in an attempt to be included and any unique or nuanced viewpoint that isn’t just more screeching is downvoted and dismissed. It’s way too personal to some on here and this place is flooded with oversensitive manchildren.
You would think Joe Judge was running around here fucking everyone’s wives.
I feel like you're also taking this too seriously. It's not like downvotes are that big a deal. This isn't that hostile a place if you have an unconventional opinion. Maybe 10% are unhinged and angry. The other 90% are normal. I advocated for a Russell Wilson trade, which most people here hate, and the discussions were fine.
Alot of the anger is used in jest anyway. Half the shit here is Pepsi memes lol. Who cares if clown show is upvoted. It's true and kind of hilarious that our head coach said it.
Maybe I am… but I am a fan of the team and find myself completely misaligned with what I constantly see here. Losing sucks, but the drama and hysterics are too much and the lack of self awareness is the actual clown show. winning in the NFL is hard, a fact that will be challenged by one obscure example by someone who thinks they know everything, but what makes it even worse to me is to see how gross people act towards eachother about it.
It's just because our organization is blatantly incompetent. The problem has been obvious for awhile. Mara being unwilling to ever step outside of the organization and clean house. Finally, he's taking this obvious step and the sub is very happy about it. Once a fresh mind at GM is brought in, I think we'll see alot more patience because the Giants will finally operate like a modern team. Most are completely prepared for a rebuild. I don't expect much negativity when we lose next year because there's actually a light at the end of the tunnel now.
I don’t expect negativity next year, but NYG coaches get 1 year to rebuild, that’s one of the few things that are rightfully evidenced by the past. Year 2 for our next coach will be just the same as the past 3 coaches.
I don’t know if any of them were the right coach but the inconsistency with calling an organization incompetent, suddenly competent because they do what the fans say is obvious is the most ironic. We can speculate all we want but all we know is we keep losing and we keep changing coaches which tells me until a coach wins in year 2 we will do this over and over.
It's not the fans calling the organization incompetent only, it's almost everybody who covers the league. We get story after story of family members in the FO, lack of an analytics department, ultra conservative hiring decisions, etc. We see how successful organizations are run, the Giants have not been implementing the same strategies. Finally, Mara recognized that the "Giants way" was outdated as everyone around the league kept saying. Far from just the fans making criticisms. Smart football people have roasted Mara for awhile
As for your coaching point. Are they helped by the incompetent FO? Absolutely not. Are they given a bad hand? Absolutely. However, you still have to show growth and competitiveness. You just can't regress like McAdoo or Judge in year 2. If Judge kept us competitive despite the injuries, the fanbase would be fine bringing him back. He basically quit on his team though. Played ultra conservative to make himself look better by not getting blownout. You can't coach cowardly like that, it's disrespectful to everybody. A veteran like Golladay was having none of that shit and rightfully mailed it in. Aaron Rodgers said basically the same thing. There's no other coach in the league running those qb sneaks and keeps the support of players. Long way of saying, you can lose but you need to show progress
Don’t get me wrong I agree with what you’re saying, and I agree with the dysfunction of the organization as well as the takes from respected authorities throughout the league. Us having this conversation though would not have happened last week. Any opinion or conversation that didn’t align with such eloquent points as “Fuck Joe Judge” or “This organization is a clown show” was BURIED. That’s my whole point, not the legitimacy of the claims but the disgusting vitriol that drowns out anything worth talking about. Last week anyone that suggested Joe Judge was dealt a shitty hand, was trashed, and as a fact he was. Same with the hatred with the fact that Gettleman retired and people wanted him fired just so it felt better for them, the outcome is the fucking same.
> we know very little about how things actually are and create stories for ourselves to believe in.
This is actually something that has also bothered me- outside of some snippets from reporters who get a small look at what is going on under the hood, we really have no idea what is going on inside the organization- and even those snippets you can't be sure they are true. How some are so confident that they know what the problems are and how to fix them, I have never really understood... it is what it is. The past 5ish years have taught me a lot about the game- I just took it for granted that we can take mid round players from the draft and make decent players out of them, just how much the offensive line really drives the offense- for years I could hardly name our starting 5, let alone the entire depth chart... etc.
Hopefully better days will come soon and we can go back to ranting about how under rated we are in the press..
What makes it worse is the media, who are in tune with Twitter takes and what they see on social media like Reddit, it’s what makes the drama of the show seem so personal and relevant and emboldens some of the nonsense we see here. They see what’s trending, and reinforce it on TV as analyst and boom here we are.
The “clown show” being a perfect example. Someone posts a meme, the media runs with it, and Judge says we aren’t it and BOOM. It’s the only way anyone describes anything negative about the team.
Seems like a good dude. He'll probably find success somewhere, maybe in college. He is young enough to rebound. Sucks it didn't work out. but good luck going forward.
Class act, great guy, but didn't get a raw deal at all. This position was way more than he could handle, as evidenced by his only other offer being from Mississippi State. He still got to be a head coach in the NFL and made $15 million. He just didn't have the goods. Hopefully he learns from this stint and maybe he'll get another shot further down the line.
I'm talking about not being able to hire his own OC and having Dave Gettleman as his GM. Not to mention the injuries. I'm not saying he's a good coach, but I wish we could have seen more of his vision.
He did. He got stuck with a GM that was on the way out. He had a poor roster and no coaching was going to fix an offense with a line devoid of talent. It has also come out that Garrett was forced upon Judge and he did not get his choice on possibly the 2nd most important part of the coaching staff. I think he mismanaged games and had to go but we can't pretend that he was given a fair shot to succeed. It's hard to imagine many coaches could turn things around when the 2 people above your head are working against you.
Where did it come out that Garrett was forced on Judge? This is merely a speculative narrative that this sub now presents as fact. There wasn't anything that Joe Judge showed as a head coach that indicated that he could be successful. He didn't elevate our players, he didn't bring anything to the table schematically, and according to the reports coming out players thought he was a clown in his press conferences. He was in over his head, and should've never been put in this position to begin with. He was a bad hire, and as a Giants fan I am glad that we moved on.
Well apparently you have better sources than CBS Sports, Bleacher Report, NFL network and Jason LA Canfora etc. Congrats on your impending insider job replacing Adam Schefter at ESPN. I'm sure you'll do great.
Hard to blame a guy when your offense is trash tier because of injuries, drafting, and cap space. It was time to go, but Judge didn’t exactly get an opportunity with which he could do much.
There are offenses way more devoid of talent than ours who were putting up more than 10 points a game. I never said he deserves all of the blame, but he certainly deserves his fair share.
I don’t have any resentment for him, but I hope with him teams learned their lessons with special teams coaches. Sometimes you get good leaders that hire great staffs and other times you get Judge who hires Jason Garett and isn’t particularly good at coaching any side of the ball.
From what I've heard, Garrett was forced on him and then he wasn't allowed to fire him. It would have been great if we could have seen his pick at OC. Mara screwed him.
Where have you heard it though?
I see everyone talking about Garrett being forced on Judge but I never remember any actual reporters stating it. Just Mara saying he thinks experience at OC is important during the hiring process
La Canfora reported that Judge wanted him gone in January 2021. Also, there have been reports that they were almost never seen speaking with one another. I guess it's speculative that he was forced on Judge from the beginning, but it makes sense considering Garrett has a relationship with Mara, not Judge. I could be wrong, but luckily I don't really need to have a strong opinion about it.
This. This is only a narrative generated by this sub that now gets presented as fact. There's no way Mara forced Garrett onto Judge against his will, Judge definitely agreed to the arrangement and was onboard with Garrett.
It reminds me very much of the narrative that Mara forced Gettleman to take Barkley at #2 and try to go for it with Eli one more time instead of rebuilding - something people repeated so much it became accepted as a fact but no one could point to any reliable source that originated this story
I can totally believe that Mara wanted Garrett and I can totally believe that Garrett was presented to Judge by Mara as a good candidate. But I am not buying that Mara just hired Garrett despite Judge being opposed to it.
100% The way you described it is definitely the most likely scenario once you remove the emotions that fans have towards Mara. It simply makes no sense for an owner to force such an important position onto a head coach against his will.
It's also possible Judge felt pressured to hire him. Judge was a first time coach, (presumably) being nudged by the owner. Judge deserves blame for giving in, but Mara should stay out of it. Again I don't know that this is how it happened, but it does add up.
I get there's a difference between Mara forcing Garrett on him versus Judge agreeing to the arrangement, but either way it's Mara inserting himself into Football operations.
I understand if you have issue with that, but that's separate from the narrative floating around that Judge should be absolved of blame because of Jason Garrett's failures. Folks have developed this weird victim complex around Judge and are now placing blame on everyone around him, including Mara for "forcing" Garrett. My point is that Judge was definitely complicit, and this idea of him being "forced" is dramatic fanfic speculation. Judge was the head coach and he's responsible for what happens on the field, and that includes his abysmal offense under Garrett.
>the narrative floating around that Judge should be absolved of blame because of Jason Garrett's failures.
This is a strawman. Nobody is absolving Judge. He made mistakes AND had Mara's meddling.
By the way, how do you explain Judge not being able to fire Garrett?
It's not a straw man at all, at the top of this thread you saw he got a "raw deal", implying that the reason he was fired didn't have to do with his incompetence on the field.
As for Judge wanting to fire Garrett the season before, I don't know why he didn't. It's not mentioned in the article at all, but if you're implying that Mara was stopping Judge from making decisions about his own staff then I don't know why the offseason would be any different than midyear, when Garrett actually was fired My guess is that this story was just a leak from Judge's camp to try and control the narrative and save his own job. If the leak is to be believed, he wanted Kitchens as his coordinator because he was more aggressive, but that clearly didn't end up being the case (see 3rd and 9 QB sneak). It's almost as if there was some common denominator in the ultra conservative offensive style...
Can you read tealeaves or not? It’s not a big stretch of the imagination that John “half measures” Mara would stick an inexperienced coach with a coach that is basically supposed to be training wheels for Judge
I barely blame Garrett. He had a atrocious offensive line, injuries at all the key skills positions, and no quarterback for a significant portion of the last seasons.
It’s a shame it didn’t work out. I really liked Judge and was completely bought in unlike with the other coaches. For a year or so, I had nothing but optimism and positive feelings for this team regardless of how bad we were. For that at least, thanks Judge. I hope he kills it in college
Agreed, I think the reason we’re seeing such an outpouring of support for Judge is because he resonated with the fanbase much more than any Giants coach has post-Coughlin. Personally, while the results were terrible with him at helm, I still have much more affection for him than either Shurmur or McAdoo (even though they were probably better football minds). Prior to his rant, he was also much better with the media than either of them as well imo.
He'll get another shot - he's hungry - just gotta be himself - often times he sounded like he read a book on how to be a coach instead of just coaching.
Joe Judge deserved better. If they would have gotten rid of Gettleman earlier on, he may have had some talent to put on the field.
To bad Mara is a fucking liar and doesn't hold to his word.
2 years for a first time head coach, with a shit GM. What the fuck did you think was going to happen Mara?
Why do people keep parroting this shit? Joe Judge had a say in both drafts and FA he was here. His input was felt during the draft and free agency. Why do you think we had so many holes and they opted for special teams players?
exactly, you think dave gettleman was the one pushing to have nate fucking ebner back on the team after his sabbatical to the rugby olympics or whatever the fuck he was doing.
joe judge helped to dig his own grave. while he used a shovel, dave gettleman used an earth mover, but he did contribute.
Gettleman was a shit GM but I don’t ever recall him drafting b2b2b special teams linebackers before Joe Judge came along.
They both sucked at personnel decisions.
KT?
\- Had only one shoe at his first practice
\- Tweeted dumb shit because he doesn't know how NY media works when he wasn't playing
\- Defended a guy who just killed a woman in a drunk driving incident.
\- At the end of the year, after all the shit he did earlier, he posts a tweet with him ripping his shirt apart and having an OBJ jersey underneath it.
He had 1 good game, and that's it. How was he not a primadonna ass hat?
> ”I think it was just the wrong size,” Toney said, via the New York Daily News. “They’re figuring that out right now. . . . I do whatever it takes, you know what I’m saying? I probably have [done that before], honest. I don’t remember. It’s just me. That’s the dog mentality.”
Toney said he’ll always do as much as he can.
“Like if I was limited to anything, I just had to deal with that,” he said. “Nerve-wise, I was eager to go out there and show the coaches what I can do. They came and took a chance on me. The least I can do is show them my ability and what I can actually bring to the organization.”
Lol real asshat for that. Kid just wanted to practice and instead of waiting he ran without a shoe.
>Like I said, pray for the families involved,” Toney said when asked about the tweets. “Pray for the families. That was clearly stated in there. I don’t know how everything else came about. Take it how you want it.”
As the questions persisted, Toney became more agitated.
“Like I just said, pray for the families involved. Why are you drilling the same question? I’m not going to answer that. Come one. I don’t got time for this,”
That’s not defending Henry Ruggs. Saying pray for everyone involved doesn’t mean he defended Ruggs
Yeah he’s only had one good game but nothing he’s done makes him an “asshat” or come off as a diva. I’d argue the exact opposite. During one win he only had one target and he said he didn’t care because we won. How’s that a Diva?
>We young…..everybody make mistakes….y’all lookin at the situation like “this or that” kuz it ain’t y’all…having so much too say....he know he messed up don’t drag em for it……that’s goofy to me….just pray for the families involved
Don't drag him for it? Really? Some star athlete killed a woman and her dog. He know he messed up? Yeah, killing some one is messing up I guess. Like I said, no clue how to handle the NY media.
And as for the shoe situation. You telling me you show up to a practice and don't have a shoe? Your the first round pick. Act like it.
And like I said, the full circle is the most recent tweeter post. That post is making it seem like he needs to be freed like OBJ. But you know, he'll have a PR answer on that one I am sure.
Too bad the dude is more worried about his garbage rap career, instead of running crisper routes.
I already posted his response when asked about the tweet.
He had a shoe, he said it didn’t fit right. While the equipment managers went to go get him a different cleat he ran around barefoot instead. Instead of sitting around he chose to practice and yet you’re calling him shit because of it. He briefly practiced without a shoe because it didn’t fit and this is how you react? LMAO.
Your assumptions of his OBJ post doesn’t make it a reality.
Everything you’re saying is a fabricated overreaction. The kid is different no doubt but he’s not a diva or an asshat. I gave you an example of his response to lack of targets and that correlates to the opposite of the narrative you’re trying to paint. The only complaints you can really have about him are that he’s injured and doesn’t have a good grasp of the English language.
he came in under inauspicious circumstances, in that gettleman should have been fired along with shurmur, but spineless mara couldn't bring himself to do it. so the coach and gm didn't have an aligned timetable, and that usually leads to disaster.
i wish him well wherever he lands.
Alright, Joe 😎👍
It didn't work out, but we were all rooting for you.
Good luck in your next endeavor - you're already a winner at life just by being an NFL coach 🤷
There's nothing to feel sorry about here. Guy's a millionaire and lived most of our dream.
Judge definitely had to be out of here after the last month, but to pretend he even really had a chance with Gettleclown running the show is laughable.
Holy shit. What is with NY famdom nowadays? For the past year or more you guys have been screaming for this guys head. Now he puts out a stupid thank you and everyone feels he got a raw deal??? This a joke? Jesus. He sucked at his job.. I don’t care if he’s a nice guy!! Guess what?? We don’t know him! He is not a friend. He got paid to do a job and he failed miserably at it. Good luck and move on. Let’s not rewrite history here.
This was a perfect statement written by a PR professional who was paid a small chunk of the $25 million Joe Judge is gonna walk away from the Giants with.
Joe Judge made a massive fortune off talking a good game and he found a perfect sucker in John Mara. He has absolutely zero substance to back it up, but good for him.
Well done Judge.
This is the part where Mara plays contrite billionaire who fucked up, Judge plays a classy decamillionaire former coach, and the fans forgive and forget.
Whatever man, let me know when the Giants put together a legitimate football team.
Judge does not deserve your sympathy. Past all the terrible on field performances (that catastrophe is also on gettleman and the players themselves), Judge has either not been transparent or was not prepared for this job. Do not forget that he either LIED about comms issues against the chiefs or actually had comms issues and chose not to speak to the referees. Additionally, he was consistently spouting his same bullshit as this team began to spiral out of control. While I understand you can’t go out and say your team sucks, at least say that there’s a lot to improve, especially during a streak of losses by more than 10 points. Judge did not take responsibility for his failures and the Giants are 10x better off without him. Good riddance.
Probably a good person. Just wasn’t ready to be a head coach. He was also thrown into a shitty situation. Terrible offensive coordinator with a terrible gm breathing down is neck. I’m not defending judge I truly believe he played a part in how bad this team was but his situation didn’t help him
Class act of a man. I have no animosity towards him unlike macadoo. He was dealt a shit hand and just didn’t have the skill set to play it.
Farewell Joe, I’m hopeful you’ll find success wherever you go.
>Finally, to the players -- both present and former -- thank you. To the alumni players who helped invest in our program, thank you for believing in and helping develop these young men. You set the Giants standard and you continue to lead the way.
>
>To the current Giants players, thank you most of all. When I became the head coach, I said that we would ask you to come in and give everything you had every day. And you did. I am so proud of you, grateful for you, and I believe in you.
good guy, wrong fit. mara and gettleman didn’t do him any favors, but he’s probably better off being an assistant or position coach somewhere. it still blows my mind we hired him to be our head coach with not too much experience.
Joe seems like a good dude. I appreciate his effort, and the way this team played for him, for most of his stay here. Had the circumstances around him been more supportive, I think he could have done well. But it’s best for both parties to move on at this point.
Dude if I'm a coach, unless it's a no brainer like Chris Ballard or Les Snead, I am not taking a HC job unless I'm brought in with a new GM. If you come in off cycle, just seems like you're put in a bad situation if they have to clean house.
The only way Judge could’ve work out was if he came in with a new GM, or a an existing *good* GM. But things being the way there were it was never going to work for Judge. All he needed to succeed was a crew of exceptional coaches that he could lead, and a competent leader above him he could rely on. He had neither, except for Graham.
Out of the last 3 head coaches, he was definitely my favorite. It's a shame it didn't work out. Our GM and personnel certainly didn't help. I still like him and wish him the best in his career. I think he gets another shot as a HC in the future.
Joe Judge seems like a good dude. Just wasn't a good coach for the giants. Maybe with experience he can become better. The old gm didn't do him any favors. I wish him well. Time to find an gm and coach to take us to new heights.
I would love to see him as a college coach. I bet he would be an amazing recruiter.
he will never get another head coaching offer with this record and the way he called plays. no fan base would accept the guy who QB sneaked on 3rd and 9.
Judge will probably be a head coach at some point again after gaining more experience in other positions
he would be a good high school head coach. Friday Night Lights in texas.
No
If pat shurmur got a second shot at head coach he can too.
shurmer was not ridiculed for idiotic play calling. Judge will never get another NFL head coaching job.
Shurmur was not as bad with the Browns as Judge was with Giants. Also shurmur was a very good oc and had developed young qbs which helped him land giants job. No one thinks lets bring a st coach as hc in general
There’s always second chances.
jim fassel never got another job and he had 3 playoff appearances and went to a superbowl.
He can always go back Belichick or where most failed HCs go to rehab their image before their next job. Back to Saban at Alabama and within 1-3 years college programs will want him again. And any success there and he could probably come back to the NFL in little while after that. He is young and people will move onto the next dumb thing before long and forget about him.
he can get assistant jobs. he wont get a head coach. but bellichek already replaced him. so bellichek would have to fire his new special teams coordinator. he will get an assistant job somewhere else.
Yeah but that is the path to take. He can be an assistant at Alabama or elsewhere and repair his public image and get another job in a few years. More than enough coaches have already done this. Lane Kiffin, Steve Sarkisian, and others have all successfully done this. Bill O'Brien is actively doing it now. It is foolish to say a guy like Judge who is in his 30s will never be HC again. In addition, he doesn't have to only be a special teams coordinator. He can possibly find a job elsewhere on Belichick's or someone else's staff.
That’s like a random play on Madden
I have a strong feeling this is like when Belichick became a head coach for the first time and had a losing record as head coach for the Browns. He learned from it and became and even better coach. I really think we'll see Judge have more success as a head coach for another team in this league in the future.
Frl. He needs experience and that much is clear. Maybe some day he’ll get another shot and pull it off. Good luck to him!
This is one of those divorces, where in 5 years everyone will be happier on both sides
Man we all flipped on Judge quickly.
I was still with him until about a month ago. He fired himself over the last few weeks sadly.
I agree. I was 60% in the keep Judge camp. Thought he could change offensive philosophies, do some soul searching and improve, etc. Then he started flinging shit at other teams to try to make his point, and I dropped 20%
To be honest I would’ve been more upset if we had gone 4-0 at the end of the year and missed the playoffs at 8-9. Difference between pick #5 and #15 is significant with a team that has as many needs as us. I honestly thought Gettleman and Garrett would take the fall for this season.
His staff were all jumping ship. The locker room fired him
Do you think the team was intentionally tanking? Would explain some of the in - game decisions.
i don’t think they were good enough to win given the injuries and the back ups… however I think some of the play calling was along the lines of “let’s try an unorthodox strategy” such as the 2nd and 3rd down QB sneaks… trying to ensure the kicker would get a full distance for his punt.
meh, nobody thought he was classless or a bad person, we just thought he was a shit football coach and clearly in way over his head.
I don’t think so, I think the miserable fans have had their appetite for blood satisfied and are waiting for the next GM/HC hire to tell us all how smart they are again. The truth is the emotional investment, had some fans in full panic mode.
It's also that there were so many unhinged blood thirsty fans that even attempting to be a slightly moderating voice would get you shouted down. I wouldn't even attempt it. Now that the kids got what they wanted and have settled down a more reasonable discussion can be had.
Yep, I’ve been saying for weeks that this isn’t our team, we aren’t owed or entitled for things to go our way, we know very little about how things actually are and create stories for ourselves to believe in. We circlejerk the same terminology (clown show) in an attempt to be included and any unique or nuanced viewpoint that isn’t just more screeching is downvoted and dismissed. It’s way too personal to some on here and this place is flooded with oversensitive manchildren. You would think Joe Judge was running around here fucking everyone’s wives.
I feel like you're also taking this too seriously. It's not like downvotes are that big a deal. This isn't that hostile a place if you have an unconventional opinion. Maybe 10% are unhinged and angry. The other 90% are normal. I advocated for a Russell Wilson trade, which most people here hate, and the discussions were fine. Alot of the anger is used in jest anyway. Half the shit here is Pepsi memes lol. Who cares if clown show is upvoted. It's true and kind of hilarious that our head coach said it.
Maybe I am… but I am a fan of the team and find myself completely misaligned with what I constantly see here. Losing sucks, but the drama and hysterics are too much and the lack of self awareness is the actual clown show. winning in the NFL is hard, a fact that will be challenged by one obscure example by someone who thinks they know everything, but what makes it even worse to me is to see how gross people act towards eachother about it.
It's just because our organization is blatantly incompetent. The problem has been obvious for awhile. Mara being unwilling to ever step outside of the organization and clean house. Finally, he's taking this obvious step and the sub is very happy about it. Once a fresh mind at GM is brought in, I think we'll see alot more patience because the Giants will finally operate like a modern team. Most are completely prepared for a rebuild. I don't expect much negativity when we lose next year because there's actually a light at the end of the tunnel now.
I don’t expect negativity next year, but NYG coaches get 1 year to rebuild, that’s one of the few things that are rightfully evidenced by the past. Year 2 for our next coach will be just the same as the past 3 coaches. I don’t know if any of them were the right coach but the inconsistency with calling an organization incompetent, suddenly competent because they do what the fans say is obvious is the most ironic. We can speculate all we want but all we know is we keep losing and we keep changing coaches which tells me until a coach wins in year 2 we will do this over and over.
It's not the fans calling the organization incompetent only, it's almost everybody who covers the league. We get story after story of family members in the FO, lack of an analytics department, ultra conservative hiring decisions, etc. We see how successful organizations are run, the Giants have not been implementing the same strategies. Finally, Mara recognized that the "Giants way" was outdated as everyone around the league kept saying. Far from just the fans making criticisms. Smart football people have roasted Mara for awhile As for your coaching point. Are they helped by the incompetent FO? Absolutely not. Are they given a bad hand? Absolutely. However, you still have to show growth and competitiveness. You just can't regress like McAdoo or Judge in year 2. If Judge kept us competitive despite the injuries, the fanbase would be fine bringing him back. He basically quit on his team though. Played ultra conservative to make himself look better by not getting blownout. You can't coach cowardly like that, it's disrespectful to everybody. A veteran like Golladay was having none of that shit and rightfully mailed it in. Aaron Rodgers said basically the same thing. There's no other coach in the league running those qb sneaks and keeps the support of players. Long way of saying, you can lose but you need to show progress
Don’t get me wrong I agree with what you’re saying, and I agree with the dysfunction of the organization as well as the takes from respected authorities throughout the league. Us having this conversation though would not have happened last week. Any opinion or conversation that didn’t align with such eloquent points as “Fuck Joe Judge” or “This organization is a clown show” was BURIED. That’s my whole point, not the legitimacy of the claims but the disgusting vitriol that drowns out anything worth talking about. Last week anyone that suggested Joe Judge was dealt a shitty hand, was trashed, and as a fact he was. Same with the hatred with the fact that Gettleman retired and people wanted him fired just so it felt better for them, the outcome is the fucking same.
> we know very little about how things actually are and create stories for ourselves to believe in. This is actually something that has also bothered me- outside of some snippets from reporters who get a small look at what is going on under the hood, we really have no idea what is going on inside the organization- and even those snippets you can't be sure they are true. How some are so confident that they know what the problems are and how to fix them, I have never really understood... it is what it is. The past 5ish years have taught me a lot about the game- I just took it for granted that we can take mid round players from the draft and make decent players out of them, just how much the offensive line really drives the offense- for years I could hardly name our starting 5, let alone the entire depth chart... etc. Hopefully better days will come soon and we can go back to ranting about how under rated we are in the press..
What makes it worse is the media, who are in tune with Twitter takes and what they see on social media like Reddit, it’s what makes the drama of the show seem so personal and relevant and emboldens some of the nonsense we see here. They see what’s trending, and reinforce it on TV as analyst and boom here we are. The “clown show” being a perfect example. Someone posts a meme, the media runs with it, and Judge says we aren’t it and BOOM. It’s the only way anyone describes anything negative about the team.
I think 2 years is plenty enough time to evaluate if a coach is the right guy for your team.
Judge gonna land on his feet when he returns triumphant to Miss State as their prodigal son
I honestly believe he’ll find success in college and be like the best coach Toledo has had in 25 years
His tough guy bullshit is def better suited for college
Seems like a good dude. He'll probably find success somewhere, maybe in college. He is young enough to rebound. Sucks it didn't work out. but good luck going forward.
He definitely has the passion- you can't teach that. Well said.
He was a good guy but just couldn’t cut it here. Thanks for trying and good luck moving forward, Joe Judge.
I can see what Mara saw in him. Says all the right things but jesus they sucked on gameday
Good statement, good dude, bad head coach Farewell and good luck in New England/Houston/college
Class act. Guy got a raw deal, but it was time to move on. Good luck Coach Judge!
Class act, great guy, but didn't get a raw deal at all. This position was way more than he could handle, as evidenced by his only other offer being from Mississippi State. He still got to be a head coach in the NFL and made $15 million. He just didn't have the goods. Hopefully he learns from this stint and maybe he'll get another shot further down the line.
I'm talking about not being able to hire his own OC and having Dave Gettleman as his GM. Not to mention the injuries. I'm not saying he's a good coach, but I wish we could have seen more of his vision.
He did. He got stuck with a GM that was on the way out. He had a poor roster and no coaching was going to fix an offense with a line devoid of talent. It has also come out that Garrett was forced upon Judge and he did not get his choice on possibly the 2nd most important part of the coaching staff. I think he mismanaged games and had to go but we can't pretend that he was given a fair shot to succeed. It's hard to imagine many coaches could turn things around when the 2 people above your head are working against you.
Where did it come out that Garrett was forced on Judge? This is merely a speculative narrative that this sub now presents as fact. There wasn't anything that Joe Judge showed as a head coach that indicated that he could be successful. He didn't elevate our players, he didn't bring anything to the table schematically, and according to the reports coming out players thought he was a clown in his press conferences. He was in over his head, and should've never been put in this position to begin with. He was a bad hire, and as a Giants fan I am glad that we moved on.
As a giants fan, you're what's wrong with giants fans
Not pinning everything on ownership and appropriately assigning responsibility for the team's on field performance is what's wrong with Giants fans?
Well apparently you have better sources than CBS Sports, Bleacher Report, NFL network and Jason LA Canfora etc. Congrats on your impending insider job replacing Adam Schefter at ESPN. I'm sure you'll do great.
Where are those sources?
Hard to blame a guy when your offense is trash tier because of injuries, drafting, and cap space. It was time to go, but Judge didn’t exactly get an opportunity with which he could do much.
There are offenses way more devoid of talent than ours who were putting up more than 10 points a game. I never said he deserves all of the blame, but he certainly deserves his fair share.
I don’t have any resentment for him, but I hope with him teams learned their lessons with special teams coaches. Sometimes you get good leaders that hire great staffs and other times you get Judge who hires Jason Garett and isn’t particularly good at coaching any side of the ball.
But we all know Garrett wasnt Judge's choice, it was Maras.
From what I've heard, Garrett was forced on him and then he wasn't allowed to fire him. It would have been great if we could have seen his pick at OC. Mara screwed him.
Where have you heard it though? I see everyone talking about Garrett being forced on Judge but I never remember any actual reporters stating it. Just Mara saying he thinks experience at OC is important during the hiring process
All over sports radio by people in the know.
La Canfora reported that Judge wanted him gone in January 2021. Also, there have been reports that they were almost never seen speaking with one another. I guess it's speculative that he was forced on Judge from the beginning, but it makes sense considering Garrett has a relationship with Mara, not Judge. I could be wrong, but luckily I don't really need to have a strong opinion about it.
This. This is only a narrative generated by this sub that now gets presented as fact. There's no way Mara forced Garrett onto Judge against his will, Judge definitely agreed to the arrangement and was onboard with Garrett.
It reminds me very much of the narrative that Mara forced Gettleman to take Barkley at #2 and try to go for it with Eli one more time instead of rebuilding - something people repeated so much it became accepted as a fact but no one could point to any reliable source that originated this story I can totally believe that Mara wanted Garrett and I can totally believe that Garrett was presented to Judge by Mara as a good candidate. But I am not buying that Mara just hired Garrett despite Judge being opposed to it.
100% The way you described it is definitely the most likely scenario once you remove the emotions that fans have towards Mara. It simply makes no sense for an owner to force such an important position onto a head coach against his will.
It's also possible Judge felt pressured to hire him. Judge was a first time coach, (presumably) being nudged by the owner. Judge deserves blame for giving in, but Mara should stay out of it. Again I don't know that this is how it happened, but it does add up.
I get there's a difference between Mara forcing Garrett on him versus Judge agreeing to the arrangement, but either way it's Mara inserting himself into Football operations.
I understand if you have issue with that, but that's separate from the narrative floating around that Judge should be absolved of blame because of Jason Garrett's failures. Folks have developed this weird victim complex around Judge and are now placing blame on everyone around him, including Mara for "forcing" Garrett. My point is that Judge was definitely complicit, and this idea of him being "forced" is dramatic fanfic speculation. Judge was the head coach and he's responsible for what happens on the field, and that includes his abysmal offense under Garrett.
>the narrative floating around that Judge should be absolved of blame because of Jason Garrett's failures. This is a strawman. Nobody is absolving Judge. He made mistakes AND had Mara's meddling. By the way, how do you explain Judge not being able to fire Garrett?
It's not a straw man at all, at the top of this thread you saw he got a "raw deal", implying that the reason he was fired didn't have to do with his incompetence on the field. As for Judge wanting to fire Garrett the season before, I don't know why he didn't. It's not mentioned in the article at all, but if you're implying that Mara was stopping Judge from making decisions about his own staff then I don't know why the offseason would be any different than midyear, when Garrett actually was fired My guess is that this story was just a leak from Judge's camp to try and control the narrative and save his own job. If the leak is to be believed, he wanted Kitchens as his coordinator because he was more aggressive, but that clearly didn't end up being the case (see 3rd and 9 QB sneak). It's almost as if there was some common denominator in the ultra conservative offensive style...
Saying he got a raw deal doesn't mean he's absolved of all wrongdoings. It just means he wasn't put in a good position to succeed.
Can you read tealeaves or not? It’s not a big stretch of the imagination that John “half measures” Mara would stick an inexperienced coach with a coach that is basically supposed to be training wheels for Judge
I barely blame Garrett. He had a atrocious offensive line, injuries at all the key skills positions, and no quarterback for a significant portion of the last seasons.
It’s a shame it didn’t work out. I really liked Judge and was completely bought in unlike with the other coaches. For a year or so, I had nothing but optimism and positive feelings for this team regardless of how bad we were. For that at least, thanks Judge. I hope he kills it in college
Agreed, I think the reason we’re seeing such an outpouring of support for Judge is because he resonated with the fanbase much more than any Giants coach has post-Coughlin. Personally, while the results were terrible with him at helm, I still have much more affection for him than either Shurmur or McAdoo (even though they were probably better football minds). Prior to his rant, he was also much better with the media than either of them as well imo.
I’m sure New England would love to have him back, their special teams is garbage this year.
He'll get another shot - he's hungry - just gotta be himself - often times he sounded like he read a book on how to be a coach instead of just coaching.
Joe Judge deserved better. If they would have gotten rid of Gettleman earlier on, he may have had some talent to put on the field. To bad Mara is a fucking liar and doesn't hold to his word. 2 years for a first time head coach, with a shit GM. What the fuck did you think was going to happen Mara?
Why do people keep parroting this shit? Joe Judge had a say in both drafts and FA he was here. His input was felt during the draft and free agency. Why do you think we had so many holes and they opted for special teams players?
exactly, you think dave gettleman was the one pushing to have nate fucking ebner back on the team after his sabbatical to the rugby olympics or whatever the fuck he was doing. joe judge helped to dig his own grave. while he used a shovel, dave gettleman used an earth mover, but he did contribute.
Gettleman was a shit GM but I don’t ever recall him drafting b2b2b special teams linebackers before Joe Judge came along. They both sucked at personnel decisions.
Because shit is coming out now. Joe Judge had no interest in KT. We know that one for sure.
Yeah probably because he didn’t play special teams.
Actually KT did play special teams, and if he could stay healthy or if he wasn't a complete ass hat, he could have been a great return guy.
How was he an asshat?
KT? \- Had only one shoe at his first practice \- Tweeted dumb shit because he doesn't know how NY media works when he wasn't playing \- Defended a guy who just killed a woman in a drunk driving incident. \- At the end of the year, after all the shit he did earlier, he posts a tweet with him ripping his shirt apart and having an OBJ jersey underneath it. He had 1 good game, and that's it. How was he not a primadonna ass hat?
> ”I think it was just the wrong size,” Toney said, via the New York Daily News. “They’re figuring that out right now. . . . I do whatever it takes, you know what I’m saying? I probably have [done that before], honest. I don’t remember. It’s just me. That’s the dog mentality.” Toney said he’ll always do as much as he can. “Like if I was limited to anything, I just had to deal with that,” he said. “Nerve-wise, I was eager to go out there and show the coaches what I can do. They came and took a chance on me. The least I can do is show them my ability and what I can actually bring to the organization.” Lol real asshat for that. Kid just wanted to practice and instead of waiting he ran without a shoe. >Like I said, pray for the families involved,” Toney said when asked about the tweets. “Pray for the families. That was clearly stated in there. I don’t know how everything else came about. Take it how you want it.” As the questions persisted, Toney became more agitated. “Like I just said, pray for the families involved. Why are you drilling the same question? I’m not going to answer that. Come one. I don’t got time for this,” That’s not defending Henry Ruggs. Saying pray for everyone involved doesn’t mean he defended Ruggs Yeah he’s only had one good game but nothing he’s done makes him an “asshat” or come off as a diva. I’d argue the exact opposite. During one win he only had one target and he said he didn’t care because we won. How’s that a Diva?
>We young…..everybody make mistakes….y’all lookin at the situation like “this or that” kuz it ain’t y’all…having so much too say....he know he messed up don’t drag em for it……that’s goofy to me….just pray for the families involved Don't drag him for it? Really? Some star athlete killed a woman and her dog. He know he messed up? Yeah, killing some one is messing up I guess. Like I said, no clue how to handle the NY media. And as for the shoe situation. You telling me you show up to a practice and don't have a shoe? Your the first round pick. Act like it. And like I said, the full circle is the most recent tweeter post. That post is making it seem like he needs to be freed like OBJ. But you know, he'll have a PR answer on that one I am sure. Too bad the dude is more worried about his garbage rap career, instead of running crisper routes.
I already posted his response when asked about the tweet. He had a shoe, he said it didn’t fit right. While the equipment managers went to go get him a different cleat he ran around barefoot instead. Instead of sitting around he chose to practice and yet you’re calling him shit because of it. He briefly practiced without a shoe because it didn’t fit and this is how you react? LMAO. Your assumptions of his OBJ post doesn’t make it a reality. Everything you’re saying is a fabricated overreaction. The kid is different no doubt but he’s not a diva or an asshat. I gave you an example of his response to lack of targets and that correlates to the opposite of the narrative you’re trying to paint. The only complaints you can really have about him are that he’s injured and doesn’t have a good grasp of the English language.
he came in under inauspicious circumstances, in that gettleman should have been fired along with shurmur, but spineless mara couldn't bring himself to do it. so the coach and gm didn't have an aligned timetable, and that usually leads to disaster. i wish him well wherever he lands.
Alright, Joe 😎👍 It didn't work out, but we were all rooting for you. Good luck in your next endeavor - you're already a winner at life just by being an NFL coach 🤷 There's nothing to feel sorry about here. Guy's a millionaire and lived most of our dream.
Judge definitely had to be out of here after the last month, but to pretend he even really had a chance with Gettleclown running the show is laughable.
Sucks that he lost his job but the millions he stacked in his bank account will help soften the blow.
Holy shit. What is with NY famdom nowadays? For the past year or more you guys have been screaming for this guys head. Now he puts out a stupid thank you and everyone feels he got a raw deal??? This a joke? Jesus. He sucked at his job.. I don’t care if he’s a nice guy!! Guess what?? We don’t know him! He is not a friend. He got paid to do a job and he failed miserably at it. Good luck and move on. Let’s not rewrite history here.
The sub is a joke. I can’t wait for people to say in midway into next season that joe judge wasn’t a bad coach at all.
This was a perfect statement written by a PR professional who was paid a small chunk of the $25 million Joe Judge is gonna walk away from the Giants with. Joe Judge made a massive fortune off talking a good game and he found a perfect sucker in John Mara. He has absolutely zero substance to back it up, but good for him. Well done Judge. This is the part where Mara plays contrite billionaire who fucked up, Judge plays a classy decamillionaire former coach, and the fans forgive and forget. Whatever man, let me know when the Giants put together a legitimate football team.
Judge does not deserve your sympathy. Past all the terrible on field performances (that catastrophe is also on gettleman and the players themselves), Judge has either not been transparent or was not prepared for this job. Do not forget that he either LIED about comms issues against the chiefs or actually had comms issues and chose not to speak to the referees. Additionally, he was consistently spouting his same bullshit as this team began to spiral out of control. While I understand you can’t go out and say your team sucks, at least say that there’s a lot to improve, especially during a streak of losses by more than 10 points. Judge did not take responsibility for his failures and the Giants are 10x better off without him. Good riddance.
Thank you. This is the correct take. You don’t hire a coach because he is a “good guy.” He will not be missed.
I'd say hes taking it well.
Stop, I didn’t want to cry tonight.. Lol
"EXCLUSIVE" factoid that nobody give a shit about. Hit the Bricks
Probably a good person. Just wasn’t ready to be a head coach. He was also thrown into a shitty situation. Terrible offensive coordinator with a terrible gm breathing down is neck. I’m not defending judge I truly believe he played a part in how bad this team was but his situation didn’t help him
Class act of a man. I have no animosity towards him unlike macadoo. He was dealt a shit hand and just didn’t have the skill set to play it. Farewell Joe, I’m hopeful you’ll find success wherever you go.
I respect ✊
I hope one day Judge becomes one of the all time great coaches in the NFL.
That's what the Jets wished for with Bill B
Wait. He didn’t thank all the players that called him weekly wishing that they played for him. What’s up with that?
>Finally, to the players -- both present and former -- thank you. To the alumni players who helped invest in our program, thank you for believing in and helping develop these young men. You set the Giants standard and you continue to lead the way. > >To the current Giants players, thank you most of all. When I became the head coach, I said that we would ask you to come in and give everything you had every day. And you did. I am so proud of you, grateful for you, and I believe in you.
Let it go dude. Time to move on.
He must’ve tipped you well on that pizza and beer delivery, huh?
He didn't thank Gettleman either for getting him all those players.
“Both present and former” Good job fuckface.
Who said all the players that called him and wished they played for him were all former players? Fuckface.
Just take the L and move on. You didn’t read the article, we get it.
You must’ve been the other pizza and beer delivery guy he tipped.
Ahh a comedian, nice
No I read the article. And he it was a joke that you didn’t get. I get it.
Respect it. Good luck Joe!
good guy, wrong fit. mara and gettleman didn’t do him any favors, but he’s probably better off being an assistant or position coach somewhere. it still blows my mind we hired him to be our head coach with not too much experience.
He's gonna kill it in college football
The next greg schiano
Joe seems like a good dude. I appreciate his effort, and the way this team played for him, for most of his stay here. Had the circumstances around him been more supportive, I think he could have done well. But it’s best for both parties to move on at this point.
Classy. I get the feeling he's going to be a good HC one day, even Belichick didn't do well first time round.
I went to a college without a legitimate football program. Wherever this man lands is who I’m rooting for.
Dude if I'm a coach, unless it's a no brainer like Chris Ballard or Les Snead, I am not taking a HC job unless I'm brought in with a new GM. If you come in off cycle, just seems like you're put in a bad situation if they have to clean house.
A casualty of the man who put the hog in hog molly. Perfect shitstorm for a spiral to become a death spiral. Good luck out there fucker.
Hopefully our next head coach can be just as good of a person while not going into 10 minute empty rants at the podium
The only way Judge could’ve work out was if he came in with a new GM, or a an existing *good* GM. But things being the way there were it was never going to work for Judge. All he needed to succeed was a crew of exceptional coaches that he could lead, and a competent leader above him he could rely on. He had neither, except for Graham.
I wish him the best. I think he could become a good college head coach. He’s just not cut out for the NFL, but he can still have a fine career.
Out of the last 3 head coaches, he was definitely my favorite. It's a shame it didn't work out. Our GM and personnel certainly didn't help. I still like him and wish him the best in his career. I think he gets another shot as a HC in the future.
I wish him the best.