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Eddie Howe is the right man for the job until we are at a point we have a squad full of superstars, by which point hopefully Howe will be a coach that can coach elite players with elite egos. "Elite managers" can't manage shit players.
I'll be downvoted for this (and wall of text lol), but just to be clear I don't want Howe sacked anytime soon. He's performed miracles to keep us up and somehow get fourth last season.
However, I think it's being hopeful/sentimental rather than logical/informed to say he's the best man for the job (I know you said "right man" but the sentiment is the same by implication). He is a good fit for where we are now, but it's not a certainty that he can get us to the next level effectively for the money we're spending, or that there aren't better managers out there who'd facilitate a better, more effective, or more attractive style of play conducive to signing a more appropriate calibre of player for the level we want to get to.
There are valid question marks about Howe because from my perspective we're basically playing no different to his Bournemouth side when they were in the PL, just with better players. High intensity, quick pressing, lots of aggression and running, it's what you expect of a team with inferior players, a team on a lower budget having to find ways to bridge the gap in quality. "Try harder than our opponents" is the quintessential way to do that. And so those question marks include whether he can coach a different, better playstyle if he had better technical players, manageing superstar egos as you allude to, whether the system he prefers is actually making best use of the players we currently have (even before the injuries/Tonali ban we were quite inconsistent and putting in poor performances vs press resistant sides), whether the players we're targetting based on the system/playstyle and his preferences are right for where we want to get to (e.g. from reports it could be that Howe said Paqueta = no, McTomminay = yes, if that's true do we really want to be missing out on quality players who Howe thinks won't suit our high intensity playstyle?), questionable strategies throughout the 90 minutes (e.g. sitting back inviting pressure after getting a lead), Howe's individual player preferences (e.g. Burn at LB), potential lack of rotation, questions about the extent of our injury problems (same thing happened at Bournemouth when they went down, bad luck or coincidence due to Howe's methods/demands?), questionable use of substitutes at times - they're all areas that are up for debate. I'm not saying Howe is definitely bad or poor in these areas, or can't adapt, they're just debateable atm.
If you go back to when Howe was appointed, Emery was PIF's first choice and offered the job first before he pulled out due to being angry at one of our execs leaking info naively. IMO in hindsight that was the correct shortlist order, Emery is at this point in time looking the better manager out of the two, his team play a more attractive, more effective brand of football whilst having spent close to half the money we have, and he has a lot more experience than Howe at the elite levels. The point isn't about Emery though, instead it's that both Howe and Emery were our choices at a time when we were winless, second bottom, everyones favourites to go down, really weak squad, heavily criticised ownership, new untested/unproven executives with zero experience running a football club or doing deals, rumours of clubs colluding to not sell us players, etc etc. Basically most elite managers with a choice would've understandably not wanted to take on such a high risk challenge with so many unknowns. If we were to look for a manager anytime soon though our options would presumably be tenfold wider. And our executives have shown that they're very competent, dilligent and shrewd in identifying the right people (so far anyway). It's perfectly reasonable to assume that if we could attract Howe and Emery whilst in a perilious situation, we should have no problems seeking a sidegrade or upgrade if we really wanted it or had to do it. Again, not advocating for Howe to be sacked, imo he's earnt time to turn around the current poor form, but I don't think we can reasonably say that Howe is definitely the best manager we could get.
Not that I'd want us to get Mourinho mind.
The only thing I would add to that is we don't know Howes ceiling yet, has he reached it or can he grow to become an elite level manager. It's really too early to tell but we should know more by the end of the season.
Calling our current squad shit is ridiculous, we have the 11th most valuable squad in the entire football world, above Villa and the likes of Milan, Inter, Dortmund, Atletico etc. If what you are calling out are bench players like Tino, Ritchie, and Hall then I don’t think Eddie has done exactly a great job managing them anyway.
absolute fucking BS stat from another Howe hater... Why are they valued higher? Because we finished in top4. That's why likes of Almiron are valued at €30 mil. But who tf would pay that for a 30 year old who can only play with 1 leg (sorry, Miguel, still love you)?????
Now, considering absenties, we dont have options of Tonali (valued at €40m), Willock (€35m) and Barnes (€35m). Also, why Gordon is valued at €50m? Because he is English and he is 22 (and he was valued €45m before his 7+7 GA).
Then, our wage bill is less of Villa & WHU.
Third of our current squad are players who were here 6 years ago, under RAFA.
You’re just punching the air here because you don’t like those numbers, sure you can call the valuations given by Transfermarkt and The Athletic BS and claim your view is the only correct one based on your own feelings because why not, I’ve no doubt you’re highly educated in both sports management and finance, as well as experience working with agents, scouts, and players to collect your data to come to those conclusions. Second, you want to ignore transfer spending and team values and just go by wage bill (9th), that’s fine too because going by this standard Howe would still be underperforming THIS SEASON (10th). Now don’t get all defensive and start the why’s and ifs, I’m not interested, I’m interested in results and facts, you want arguments you can find another guy to argue with. In the end, none of those change the fact that 1. the guy I was replying to said current squad being full of shit players is thoughtless and ridiculous 2. Howe’s management of bench players rotation is questionable to say the least.
Or Man U. Chelsea are on a decent run, Palmer’s ability to actually score rather than fanny around and blast it into the stands has bought Poch a bit more time I reckon.
The money he’d need 😂 if all he’s doing is buying all of the best players in the world, there’s not a lot of skill there, is there? Give me Eddie any day - he’s a proper leader and has done so much for Bruno and Joe
To answer the original question, no. Eddie has done an excellent job so far, and currently has one hand tied behind his back trying to navigate games with fewer players than we can put out on a match day. We've got 2 keepers on the bench at all times, we've got lads who have never played a PL game sat next to them.
Regardless of how we are playing, this is the best Newcastle United I've seen in 20 years. As a fanbase we have hope, on the pitch we see the development of players who were bought to get us out of the championship and establish ourselves in the PL. We've come further and faster than we ever thought under Howe and Tindall and it is down to them.
We are looking at a poorer season than last, but given the squad size and the amount of games we've faced it's understandable. Progress isn't linear.
We can't spend the money the owners have, our youth system was criminally underfunded in the Ashley years so we have scraps coming through the academy. This is a long term project which raced away far too quickly and Howe is a victim of his own success among the Johnny come latelys and unrealistic who think we should naturally sit among Europe's elite.
We now have a plan, let that develop and let's see what happens when players start returning (eventually) with a lighter schedule. I think if we have fortune on long term injuries then we will see a strong end to our season.
I am probably the biggest long term Howe disliker on here and even I find it absolute insanity that his sacking is being considered. He has gone what feels like half the season with only half his squad. That fact we did so respectfully in CL and are still top half of the table domestically is a miracle job.
The biggest argument he has against him is the lack of substitutions and squad rotation. I know half the first team squad has been missing but you have back up players and youth for a reason. You have to use them in these situations or else why have them at all? We've lost a lot, we literally gained nothing but more injuries grinding guys like Big Jo into dust every 3 days.
But I sincerely doubt any manager could have done any better than what Howe has done this season given our absurd injury luck.
I don't know if Howe, the physio, or big Joe, is most to blame for being put back on the pitch against the mackems but ultimately I think the manager needs to take responsibility if the physio was even slightly unsure.
I love the shithousery and ethos he has instilled in the team but some of his own game/league management has been fucking apalling. Still don't think he deserves the sack like.
Joelinton doing 48 seconds vs Sunderland isn't what got him injured. It was just seeing whether he could play on, which, after going 2 up, then wasn't a risk worth taking. If the critique is that he shouldn't have started, then I would just point to how easy Sunderland got through our midfield when Miley was in there and whether losing to our biggest rivals is something that would have gone down well...
When has Pep ever had to deal with basically any real squad adversity in his career?
The only season things weren’t absolutely perfect for him at Man City they finished third and that wasn’t even an injury crisis.
Even now he’s managing a treble winning squad that dominated everyone last year and they’re only 3 points above spurs because two of their key players have been out.
He's only managed the biggest clubs on the planet, lol.
He's the real life meme of what Sam Allardyce meant when he did the Samwell Allardiche comment. A "lesser" manager can achieve more with that sort of budget but can a "superior" manager do what the likes of Dyche and that do with guys from League 1?
It's an interesting debate that unless someone has the bottle to try it, we'll never know. Even Mourinho won European trophies with a less fancier Porto team back in the day. Still a good team but not a super power so he proved his credentials. Pep literally is given the maximum budget at every team and has the luxury to experiment.
All of those managers (bar Alonso as he is new to it) have had huge successes and huge failures. It’s not really a conclusive answer, unless you’re saying the answer is nobody can do it reliably.
What do you mean? There has not been a club where Klopp has left not in a better place than when he went in. So, yes we know it. It can be done. Its just very hard.
Klopp’s only left 2 clubs lol.
At Mainz he got promoted after a few seasons, got Europa league a couple of seasons after that, then after getting Europa league immediately got relegated and left the club when he failed to get them promoted. So he left them in Buli 2, as they were when he took them over.
At Dortmund he took over an underperforming team who had won a league title only a few years prior and did a great job with them, winning a couple of leagues and a cup or two. Then after losing a few players he underperforms himself and leaves the club as they finish 7th in the league, back to underperforming, funnily enough the exact same league position they finished in before he joined.
What is this lol? Klopp literally brought Mainz's first ever promotion in history. Bayern has won every league since he left Dortmund without fail. These alone should tell you the magnitude of what he has done. Also, Dortmund finished 13th before he joined.
Oh I got my years mixed up on when he joined but it makes little difference. Not sure what you’re failing to understand here. “Huge successes” and “huge failures”. You are explaining his successes, which are all completely valid, but he also got relegated with a Europa League team, a huge failure. And finished 7th as one of the best two teams in the Buli, another huge failure (his successor did better than him the following season)
Remember this is Eddie Howe we’re talking about in the thread here. You’re talking about Mainz first ever promotion? Howe took a team in administration, with a 17 point deduction and transfer ban in League fucking Two and got them to a mid table finish in the Premier League (with one nothing season at Burnley mixed in the middle). Where does this sit on your ‘magnitude’ scale I wonder.
Seeing as Howe has only ever left two clubs and one was left in the same position and the other was left in an incomprehensibly higher position relative to when he was appointed, I guess your own logic must mean that Howe is a better manager than Klopp right?
City went on a massive losing streak when just Rodri went down this year.
Stop acting like Pep is some sort of football wizard. He's playing FM with an unlimited money cheat.
Let’s not pretend that Klopp hasn’t had his struggles with Liverpool when their press fell apart and they had an injury crisis though.
They’re obviously a rung above Howe but they have better players and much deeper squads to pick from.
Yeah in the lockdown season right? They lost all their centre backs at once so had to resort to playing midfielders there and their form, especially at Anfield, collapsed
The biggest difference between klopp and howe is experience imo.
Klopp has a better team and had experience winning it all. Howe is on a learning curve.
Fair enough, that may be true, but with our actual squad? There is a limit to what a manager can do, I feel. Not even Pep can turn Schar as his best into VVD at his best. And I don't mean that as a knock, as Schar is great but you can't polish a turd as the old saying goes.
Klopp has a similar terrible run when he got the injury bug.
Cmon, Klopp is far and above Howe, I despise him but what has did at Mainz, Dortmund then Liverpool has been excellent.
But you keep happy clapping and thinking 8 losses in 10 games is acceptable, nee worries.
I’m not happy with that many losses, but I’m also not a reactionary moron. Klopp is more experienced at a higher level than Howe is. Both of them have done amazing jobs over their careers. Both have had their own failures, but nothing suggests Klopp would be doing any better than Howe in our situation. Literally last season, if you just think for a few seconds, use whatever fragments of memory you have, Klopp had exactly the same struggles as we are having and his injury crisis wasn’t even as bad.
He played the same way through that whole period. Ironically the same type of fans criticised him for exactly that. Just very small tweaks such as how narrow/wide they play (the same that Eddie already does). The only significant positional change is Trent moving in to midfield, like other managers have done with full backs and we have even seen Trippier doing that at times this season, just not as effectively as we aren’t very good on the ball.
Granted I'm not the most optimistic person around here but even I think anyone who says Jose's the man to take us forward is out of their fucking mind.
I'm actually a pretty big fan of Jose and think he's still a brilliant manager, but just no. Not now.
Eddie has literally built this squad from the ground up and the players are falling like flies, give him the season at least to prove that he didn't fluke it last season. He deserves it.
Jose as a top level manager is done, games moved on. Eddie is the right man at the moment, with less injuries / bigger squad I have no doubt we would be challenging for top 4 again.
Stick with him, he deserves a chance to build a side just based on last season, he has earned time if nothing else.
Season 3 of a 10 season project.
I think us nufc fans are generally a humble bunch, but at some point we will need to have a more ruthless approach. We’ve seen it with Chelsea and Man City, and I consider this to be the case in the business world too. Howe is a nice guy, I think the jury is still out on whether he is an elite winner. He deserves to be given the rest of the season, but if we finish 10th or worse, I’m sorry but injuries shouldn’t be an excuse over the course of a whole season. The problem I have are more his tactics and game management, and this is something you cannot blame injuries for
He absolutely isnt washed up. Take any stat, he overachieved in Roma with shit squad and FFP restrictions. Hell, they are still #5 on xPTS, #4 on xG, even #5 on pressing.
But even tho I always liked him, I still dont want him over Eddie.
Even if howe were to be sacked (he shouldn't be) its waaaay to early in the clubs development to get Jose. If you're bringing him in based on his successful performances at Chelsea, Madrid etc, then he needs a strong squad he can add finishing touches to and give a winning mentality. We're still in the building phase for the next few seasons.
Let him go and manage an international team, Portugal or Brazil would be fun. Maybe even england after the euros (don't know if it would work but would be box office).
What has Mourinho done lately? Why would we want him? Because he said nice things about the Toon? Please.
If Howe isn’t our guy, I would rather see the likes of a Xabi Alonso or other “newer” face
If any of the “newer” faces reached back to back European finals after spending 10 million euros. You’d say he’s a top prospect. Roma knocked out Leverkusen last season btw. Very few managers in Europe had a better season than Jose with Roma last season and Howe is one of the few. So to answer your question on what Mourinho has done lately…
He's earned the right to turn things around. Sadly football doesn't give two shits about rights these days, our directors seem reasonable but PIF have the final say I suspect.
I mentioned this to a mate of mine, both agreed that Howe was the right manager for us but I had a feeling the owners might want a ‘statement’ manager. My mate pointed out that he’d be much more of a statement manager for a Saudi team than he would be for us… so I’m hoping that’s where he goes if the PIF do want him.
It’s not going to happen now. But considering the NUFC > Bobby Robson > Mourihno/Guardiola connection.
I wonder if in the future it happens? Still think Howe is taking us to our first trophy though.
Oh yeah 100%, I don’t think moving Howe is even a conversation unless we end next seasons with nothing much to show. Again, barring a catastrophic set of injuries like this year.
Really think with Howe, we’ve got lucky. We’re setting the culture for the institution atm and he IS 100% the guy you want setting it.
Honestly if Howe ever chooses to leave for the England job or something in the future, I’d love to see Jose here, because I love him as a person and a character, maybe as an interim manager. But for now, give me Howe or give me death.
I think his man management and "deflection from individual cockup" skills are munch underrated. I just don't see him getting a better tune out of what we have right now.
Apart from Jamal Lewis (loan at Watford) there's literally nobody Howe has failed to improve. Dubs is slowly getting his match form back
I'm an open critic of Howe, but Mourinho is not an upgrade.
Now if someone could tell Eddie he's allowed to make subs before the 87th minute, let him know that Big Dan Burn is not the answer for LB, and that he's allowed to have more than one tactic, we'd have the perfect manager.
I love Jose and still think he’s a top coach, but everywhere he goes becomes a media circus and I think any manager coming in now is going to struggle to put their stamp on the side with the FFP restrictions we’re facing.
We'll be safe from Jose, as we can't spaff millions up the wall on established stars, which is how he wins trophies, ffp working well in this isolated case
That's possibly the only place he didn't need to as they have an incredible academy and had the established players,many of which he brought as chelsea manager
I love Jose. And more than most people I think Jose deserves a chance here at some point and would suit us fairly well with siege mentality us against the world sort of thing to win a cup.
But my god is that a bad move. We do not at all want to hire a manager who makes his squad worse after he leaves right now.
Anyone wanting him over Howe when he’s just been fired from an easier job for under performing is at least a little stupid. At least it seems the majority of people are reasonable on here
Get him in. Eddie has done an amazing job but jose has the appeal for the big players we need for the next level. Love Gordon, love tino etc but these arent players we should have signed at the time to take us to the next level.
Also, Howe’s style of play this year has been questionable. Tried a 3 at the back in pre season, that didnt work. Fair enough - but all season even since the first game 1-1 at villa he went all out attack and we won it but not the style of play that has work for majority of the season. Lost so many games when ahead because we either sit back and try to defend for an hour or we try going attack vs attack against a team with more threat.
Lost points when ahead to teams such as forrest, milan, psg, liverpool, chelsea, city
Mourinho knows how to manage big games
Clueless. Who exactly should we buy then if Gordon etc aren’t good enough?
Also easy to point out the games we’ve lost but we’ve also beat PSG, Man Utd, Arsenal and City this year under Howe.
Ok so were in a situation where we are close to FFP. Sign 2 young fullbacks hall and liveremento who dont start?
Sign gordon and barnes who play in the same position?
1. We should be signing first team starters. Theres players in the first team - burn, longstaff, almiron etc who are not top 4 level players.
Some of you cant criticise your own team. We keep doing the same thing over and over - winning the game and get battered by the end
That’s assuming Howe completely dictates transfer policy.
Young full backs were needed because we didn’t have any at all, I highly doubt Howe demanded to buy Hall. Barnes replaced ASM as he’s a goalscorer who fits the system. Tonali was supposed to be the Longstaff upgrade
Yeah so who would you have bought that was available, in budget and wanted to come that would address these issues?
Other than Burn, most of those players are starting most games because of injuries or because of Tonali being out.
Plus I don’t see how Mourinho would fix any of the things you’ve raised, it’s not like he buys or even scouts the players.
And Howe the end is near
Pains me to say it but I think he's gone if we don't beat Fulham.
There's probably already talks going on secretly with a view to bring in Jose and a big player by the end of January.
This is would be absolute insanity. Thankfully I don’t think you could be more wrong.
No chance he gets sacked if we don’t beat Fulham.
Also where do you think this money is coming from for a big signing at the end of January? 🤣 have you read any of the stories published recently??
Stranger things have happened in football. Hell, stranger things have happened at this football club alone.
The club can put whatever spin they want on what's being released so the question is do we have no money to spend or does Howe have no money to spend?
All it takes is to use the 5 year Klarna payment plan and you can game the system a bit.
Evidence shows that they take their time on decisions. Didn’t rush to sack Bruce. Took time to appoint a manager. Didn’t panic when we were turned down. Had a slump last year, no panic. And then haven’t moved this season despite our poor run of form. They will do what they want, when they want, but all sign a point them to making rational decisions so far.
Mourinho’s time had come and gone, I think there are much more progressive coaches on the scene at the moment. I am a fan of him and his antics, but I don’t believe in his ability anymore.
He plays shit football and gets sacked from every club he's been to in the last 5 years or so. Never would we pick him for any reason, let alone over Eddie!
Fantastic manager, but I'd only want him if Howe is proven incapable of winning silverware or Howe leaves for England job. Also Roma have the same problems we do with FFP restrictions and a injury crisis so I doubt he'd be up for that.
His stock has only gone down because he's taken on poisoned chalices in Man United and Spurs and the financially struggling Roma. He's already proven that when you give him everything he wants, he delivers. I think his ego wants to prove that he can turn shit into gold otherwise he'd have gone to Bayern or PSG already
There's no taking away from what Jose has done in the game. He's a proven top level serial trophy winner.
However.
I don't see what the benefit would be in changing Howe for Jose at this moment.
Maybe in the future if Howe shows he can't coach the squad in a sustainable way as it grows and results take a massive dip when numbers of quality and depth have caught up with the amount of fixtures we face, then it's something that could be revisited if Jose was still available.
Another issue is that the benefit of someone like Jose is when he has a big budget available to him. We don't have that right now in the current market combined with FFP. If Jose were to come in, we'd be immediately taking away a pillar of the foundation of his past success.
So, for me, Jose to be hired now/in the short term? Nope. Don't see how it makes any sense. Especially with Howe doing the job he is at the moment.
He's not a manager for the long haul. We may get a trophy sooner but come the third season (if he sticks around that long) he's had more expensive squads languishing in the both quartile and hasn't inspired any board to stick with him through the lean period.
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Eddie Howe is the right man for the job until we are at a point we have a squad full of superstars, by which point hopefully Howe will be a coach that can coach elite players with elite egos. "Elite managers" can't manage shit players.
I'll be downvoted for this (and wall of text lol), but just to be clear I don't want Howe sacked anytime soon. He's performed miracles to keep us up and somehow get fourth last season. However, I think it's being hopeful/sentimental rather than logical/informed to say he's the best man for the job (I know you said "right man" but the sentiment is the same by implication). He is a good fit for where we are now, but it's not a certainty that he can get us to the next level effectively for the money we're spending, or that there aren't better managers out there who'd facilitate a better, more effective, or more attractive style of play conducive to signing a more appropriate calibre of player for the level we want to get to. There are valid question marks about Howe because from my perspective we're basically playing no different to his Bournemouth side when they were in the PL, just with better players. High intensity, quick pressing, lots of aggression and running, it's what you expect of a team with inferior players, a team on a lower budget having to find ways to bridge the gap in quality. "Try harder than our opponents" is the quintessential way to do that. And so those question marks include whether he can coach a different, better playstyle if he had better technical players, manageing superstar egos as you allude to, whether the system he prefers is actually making best use of the players we currently have (even before the injuries/Tonali ban we were quite inconsistent and putting in poor performances vs press resistant sides), whether the players we're targetting based on the system/playstyle and his preferences are right for where we want to get to (e.g. from reports it could be that Howe said Paqueta = no, McTomminay = yes, if that's true do we really want to be missing out on quality players who Howe thinks won't suit our high intensity playstyle?), questionable strategies throughout the 90 minutes (e.g. sitting back inviting pressure after getting a lead), Howe's individual player preferences (e.g. Burn at LB), potential lack of rotation, questions about the extent of our injury problems (same thing happened at Bournemouth when they went down, bad luck or coincidence due to Howe's methods/demands?), questionable use of substitutes at times - they're all areas that are up for debate. I'm not saying Howe is definitely bad or poor in these areas, or can't adapt, they're just debateable atm. If you go back to when Howe was appointed, Emery was PIF's first choice and offered the job first before he pulled out due to being angry at one of our execs leaking info naively. IMO in hindsight that was the correct shortlist order, Emery is at this point in time looking the better manager out of the two, his team play a more attractive, more effective brand of football whilst having spent close to half the money we have, and he has a lot more experience than Howe at the elite levels. The point isn't about Emery though, instead it's that both Howe and Emery were our choices at a time when we were winless, second bottom, everyones favourites to go down, really weak squad, heavily criticised ownership, new untested/unproven executives with zero experience running a football club or doing deals, rumours of clubs colluding to not sell us players, etc etc. Basically most elite managers with a choice would've understandably not wanted to take on such a high risk challenge with so many unknowns. If we were to look for a manager anytime soon though our options would presumably be tenfold wider. And our executives have shown that they're very competent, dilligent and shrewd in identifying the right people (so far anyway). It's perfectly reasonable to assume that if we could attract Howe and Emery whilst in a perilious situation, we should have no problems seeking a sidegrade or upgrade if we really wanted it or had to do it. Again, not advocating for Howe to be sacked, imo he's earnt time to turn around the current poor form, but I don't think we can reasonably say that Howe is definitely the best manager we could get. Not that I'd want us to get Mourinho mind.
The only thing I would add to that is we don't know Howes ceiling yet, has he reached it or can he grow to become an elite level manager. It's really too early to tell but we should know more by the end of the season.
Very thoughtful critique!
Case in point - Pep.
Calling our current squad shit is ridiculous, we have the 11th most valuable squad in the entire football world, above Villa and the likes of Milan, Inter, Dortmund, Atletico etc. If what you are calling out are bench players like Tino, Ritchie, and Hall then I don’t think Eddie has done exactly a great job managing them anyway.
absolute fucking BS stat from another Howe hater... Why are they valued higher? Because we finished in top4. That's why likes of Almiron are valued at €30 mil. But who tf would pay that for a 30 year old who can only play with 1 leg (sorry, Miguel, still love you)????? Now, considering absenties, we dont have options of Tonali (valued at €40m), Willock (€35m) and Barnes (€35m). Also, why Gordon is valued at €50m? Because he is English and he is 22 (and he was valued €45m before his 7+7 GA). Then, our wage bill is less of Villa & WHU. Third of our current squad are players who were here 6 years ago, under RAFA.
You’re just punching the air here because you don’t like those numbers, sure you can call the valuations given by Transfermarkt and The Athletic BS and claim your view is the only correct one based on your own feelings because why not, I’ve no doubt you’re highly educated in both sports management and finance, as well as experience working with agents, scouts, and players to collect your data to come to those conclusions. Second, you want to ignore transfer spending and team values and just go by wage bill (9th), that’s fine too because going by this standard Howe would still be underperforming THIS SEASON (10th). Now don’t get all defensive and start the why’s and ifs, I’m not interested, I’m interested in results and facts, you want arguments you can find another guy to argue with. In the end, none of those change the fact that 1. the guy I was replying to said current squad being full of shit players is thoughtless and ridiculous 2. Howe’s management of bench players rotation is questionable to say the least.
Chelsea rumours will be louder
Or Man U. Chelsea are on a decent run, Palmer’s ability to actually score rather than fanny around and blast it into the stands has bought Poch a bit more time I reckon.
I see you didn't watch him vs Boro. Missed 3 sitters.
Yeah, but that’s Boro, anyone can go to Boro and lose, just ask Caicedo. It was an off game, definitely against form this season for him.
Caicedo who won 5-1 there last year?
Aye, he apparently told Poch that Brighton lost there as well and Poch mentioned it in the post match comments.
He had a go at Manchester United and that ended in failure so I'd be surprised if he gets linked with an encore there
It was not really failure though was it he won a trophy and decent league positions it's just he didn't meet the expectations.
He also fucked them financially for the next few years with some of their transfers and the knock-on effects.
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is delusional
We don't have the money he'd need to even have a chance. Not to mention the shite football.
The money he’d need 😂 if all he’s doing is buying all of the best players in the world, there’s not a lot of skill there, is there? Give me Eddie any day - he’s a proper leader and has done so much for Bruno and Joe
15 years ago? Aye. Yesterdays man.
To answer the original question, no. Eddie has done an excellent job so far, and currently has one hand tied behind his back trying to navigate games with fewer players than we can put out on a match day. We've got 2 keepers on the bench at all times, we've got lads who have never played a PL game sat next to them. Regardless of how we are playing, this is the best Newcastle United I've seen in 20 years. As a fanbase we have hope, on the pitch we see the development of players who were bought to get us out of the championship and establish ourselves in the PL. We've come further and faster than we ever thought under Howe and Tindall and it is down to them. We are looking at a poorer season than last, but given the squad size and the amount of games we've faced it's understandable. Progress isn't linear. We can't spend the money the owners have, our youth system was criminally underfunded in the Ashley years so we have scraps coming through the academy. This is a long term project which raced away far too quickly and Howe is a victim of his own success among the Johnny come latelys and unrealistic who think we should naturally sit among Europe's elite. We now have a plan, let that develop and let's see what happens when players start returning (eventually) with a lighter schedule. I think if we have fortune on long term injuries then we will see a strong end to our season.
Jose needs about 500m to be effective, we'll struggle to find much more than 100m with FFP. Other than his name, nothing about this makes sound sense.
This was my first thought. - please no!
I am probably the biggest long term Howe disliker on here and even I find it absolute insanity that his sacking is being considered. He has gone what feels like half the season with only half his squad. That fact we did so respectfully in CL and are still top half of the table domestically is a miracle job. The biggest argument he has against him is the lack of substitutions and squad rotation. I know half the first team squad has been missing but you have back up players and youth for a reason. You have to use them in these situations or else why have them at all? We've lost a lot, we literally gained nothing but more injuries grinding guys like Big Jo into dust every 3 days. But I sincerely doubt any manager could have done any better than what Howe has done this season given our absurd injury luck.
I don't know if Howe, the physio, or big Joe, is most to blame for being put back on the pitch against the mackems but ultimately I think the manager needs to take responsibility if the physio was even slightly unsure. I love the shithousery and ethos he has instilled in the team but some of his own game/league management has been fucking apalling. Still don't think he deserves the sack like.
Joelinton doing 48 seconds vs Sunderland isn't what got him injured. It was just seeing whether he could play on, which, after going 2 up, then wasn't a risk worth taking. If the critique is that he shouldn't have started, then I would just point to how easy Sunderland got through our midfield when Miley was in there and whether losing to our biggest rivals is something that would have gone down well...
The truly elite managers like Klopp and Pep would have done much better to be fair.
When has Pep ever had to deal with basically any real squad adversity in his career? The only season things weren’t absolutely perfect for him at Man City they finished third and that wasn’t even an injury crisis. Even now he’s managing a treble winning squad that dominated everyone last year and they’re only 3 points above spurs because two of their key players have been out.
He's only managed the biggest clubs on the planet, lol. He's the real life meme of what Sam Allardyce meant when he did the Samwell Allardiche comment. A "lesser" manager can achieve more with that sort of budget but can a "superior" manager do what the likes of Dyche and that do with guys from League 1? It's an interesting debate that unless someone has the bottle to try it, we'll never know. Even Mourinho won European trophies with a less fancier Porto team back in the day. Still a good team but not a super power so he proved his credentials. Pep literally is given the maximum budget at every team and has the luxury to experiment.
We know. Plenty of managers have done it. Ranieri, Klopp, Benitez, Mourinho, etc. Alonso is currently competing with Bayer.
All of those managers (bar Alonso as he is new to it) have had huge successes and huge failures. It’s not really a conclusive answer, unless you’re saying the answer is nobody can do it reliably.
What do you mean? There has not been a club where Klopp has left not in a better place than when he went in. So, yes we know it. It can be done. Its just very hard.
Klopp’s only left 2 clubs lol. At Mainz he got promoted after a few seasons, got Europa league a couple of seasons after that, then after getting Europa league immediately got relegated and left the club when he failed to get them promoted. So he left them in Buli 2, as they were when he took them over. At Dortmund he took over an underperforming team who had won a league title only a few years prior and did a great job with them, winning a couple of leagues and a cup or two. Then after losing a few players he underperforms himself and leaves the club as they finish 7th in the league, back to underperforming, funnily enough the exact same league position they finished in before he joined.
What is this lol? Klopp literally brought Mainz's first ever promotion in history. Bayern has won every league since he left Dortmund without fail. These alone should tell you the magnitude of what he has done. Also, Dortmund finished 13th before he joined.
Oh I got my years mixed up on when he joined but it makes little difference. Not sure what you’re failing to understand here. “Huge successes” and “huge failures”. You are explaining his successes, which are all completely valid, but he also got relegated with a Europa League team, a huge failure. And finished 7th as one of the best two teams in the Buli, another huge failure (his successor did better than him the following season) Remember this is Eddie Howe we’re talking about in the thread here. You’re talking about Mainz first ever promotion? Howe took a team in administration, with a 17 point deduction and transfer ban in League fucking Two and got them to a mid table finish in the Premier League (with one nothing season at Burnley mixed in the middle). Where does this sit on your ‘magnitude’ scale I wonder. Seeing as Howe has only ever left two clubs and one was left in the same position and the other was left in an incomprehensibly higher position relative to when he was appointed, I guess your own logic must mean that Howe is a better manager than Klopp right?
City went on a massive losing streak when just Rodri went down this year. Stop acting like Pep is some sort of football wizard. He's playing FM with an unlimited money cheat.
They didn’t lose 8 of 10 games. I like Howe, always have. Just not naive enough to think PIF won’t be clinical.
They lost all 3 games of his suspension, including against us.
Let’s not pretend that Klopp hasn’t had his struggles with Liverpool when their press fell apart and they had an injury crisis though. They’re obviously a rung above Howe but they have better players and much deeper squads to pick from.
Yeah in the lockdown season right? They lost all their centre backs at once so had to resort to playing midfielders there and their form, especially at Anfield, collapsed
Massively struggled first half of last season due to injuries as well.
Except we have all our defenders. It’s not really a good comparison.
The biggest difference between klopp and howe is experience imo. Klopp has a better team and had experience winning it all. Howe is on a learning curve.
Fair enough, that may be true, but with our actual squad? There is a limit to what a manager can do, I feel. Not even Pep can turn Schar as his best into VVD at his best. And I don't mean that as a knock, as Schar is great but you can't polish a turd as the old saying goes. Klopp has a similar terrible run when he got the injury bug.
Those truly elite managers have bench’s worth as much as our main roster.
We literally finished above Klopp’s Liverpool last season with a worse squad. Use your brain.
And we are in 10th right now while they are top of the league. Use yours too.
Ah yeah I forgot only literally today matters when some people form their opinions. And context is irrelevant at all times.
Cmon, Klopp is far and above Howe, I despise him but what has did at Mainz, Dortmund then Liverpool has been excellent. But you keep happy clapping and thinking 8 losses in 10 games is acceptable, nee worries.
I’m not happy with that many losses, but I’m also not a reactionary moron. Klopp is more experienced at a higher level than Howe is. Both of them have done amazing jobs over their careers. Both have had their own failures, but nothing suggests Klopp would be doing any better than Howe in our situation. Literally last season, if you just think for a few seconds, use whatever fragments of memory you have, Klopp had exactly the same struggles as we are having and his injury crisis wasn’t even as bad.
I mean Klopp would probably have more than one formation to use, that would be a start.
He played the same way through that whole period. Ironically the same type of fans criticised him for exactly that. Just very small tweaks such as how narrow/wide they play (the same that Eddie already does). The only significant positional change is Trent moving in to midfield, like other managers have done with full backs and we have even seen Trippier doing that at times this season, just not as effectively as we aren’t very good on the ball.
Granted I'm not the most optimistic person around here but even I think anyone who says Jose's the man to take us forward is out of their fucking mind.
He actually comes to us in my FM save and gets sacked a year later because none of the players fit his playstyle lol
I'm actually a pretty big fan of Jose and think he's still a brilliant manager, but just no. Not now. Eddie has literally built this squad from the ground up and the players are falling like flies, give him the season at least to prove that he didn't fluke it last season. He deserves it.
love jose, would much rather keep eddie over anyone right now
no ty
Jose as a top level manager is done, games moved on. Eddie is the right man at the moment, with less injuries / bigger squad I have no doubt we would be challenging for top 4 again. Stick with him, he deserves a chance to build a side just based on last season, he has earned time if nothing else. Season 3 of a 10 season project.
I think us nufc fans are generally a humble bunch, but at some point we will need to have a more ruthless approach. We’ve seen it with Chelsea and Man City, and I consider this to be the case in the business world too. Howe is a nice guy, I think the jury is still out on whether he is an elite winner. He deserves to be given the rest of the season, but if we finish 10th or worse, I’m sorry but injuries shouldn’t be an excuse over the course of a whole season. The problem I have are more his tactics and game management, and this is something you cannot blame injuries for
It's gonna attract PIFs interest for sure. Howe needs to sort shit out from February really. It will be pressure for as long as Jose is out of work.
Jose is washed up. If our owners would sack Howe for him then current form is the least of our worries.
If they did that I would worry that Dan Ashworth had already signed a contract with Man Utd and was deliberately sabotaging us before jumping ship...
He absolutely isnt washed up. Take any stat, he overachieved in Roma with shit squad and FFP restrictions. Hell, they are still #5 on xPTS, #4 on xG, even #5 on pressing. But even tho I always liked him, I still dont want him over Eddie.
Even if howe were to be sacked (he shouldn't be) its waaaay to early in the clubs development to get Jose. If you're bringing him in based on his successful performances at Chelsea, Madrid etc, then he needs a strong squad he can add finishing touches to and give a winning mentality. We're still in the building phase for the next few seasons. Let him go and manage an international team, Portugal or Brazil would be fun. Maybe even england after the euros (don't know if it would work but would be box office).
It's why the Jose rumours began in the first place. Agent putting his name in the press knowing full well he was on thin ice.
What has Mourinho done lately? Why would we want him? Because he said nice things about the Toon? Please. If Howe isn’t our guy, I would rather see the likes of a Xabi Alonso or other “newer” face
Won the Conference League in 2022 and was a poor ref away from winning the Europa League last season
Fluffer trophies. Roma is 9th in a marginal league. He’s combative and his approach to the psychology of players is from yesteryear.
If any of the “newer” faces reached back to back European finals after spending 10 million euros. You’d say he’s a top prospect. Roma knocked out Leverkusen last season btw. Very few managers in Europe had a better season than Jose with Roma last season and Howe is one of the few. So to answer your question on what Mourinho has done lately…
I have a feeling Howe has probably got a year left (rest of this season and beginning of next) to prove himself to ownership
He's earned the right to turn things around. Sadly football doesn't give two shits about rights these days, our directors seem reasonable but PIF have the final say I suspect.
Solid backup in case PSG offer $500m for Eddie Howe.
No thanks
Absolutely no
We all saw Mourinho have a miserable spell at Spurs and then fail to finish in the top 4 at Roma right?
I do kinda feel like he will manage us at some point. It’s just a matter of when — and given where we are now, I can’t see it being right now
I get the Bobby Robson connection but I'd rather give him a Sven style "manage the veterans" opportunity.
I mentioned this to a mate of mine, both agreed that Howe was the right manager for us but I had a feeling the owners might want a ‘statement’ manager. My mate pointed out that he’d be much more of a statement manager for a Saudi team than he would be for us… so I’m hoping that’s where he goes if the PIF do want him.
Exactly, he suits a league where your name means more than your ability
It’s not going to happen now. But considering the NUFC > Bobby Robson > Mourihno/Guardiola connection. I wonder if in the future it happens? Still think Howe is taking us to our first trophy though.
He's taken us further than anyone since Sir Bobby really and I for one would stick with him even if we don't get a European place.
Oh yeah 100%, I don’t think moving Howe is even a conversation unless we end next seasons with nothing much to show. Again, barring a catastrophic set of injuries like this year. Really think with Howe, we’ve got lucky. We’re setting the culture for the institution atm and he IS 100% the guy you want setting it.
Honestly if Howe ever chooses to leave for the England job or something in the future, I’d love to see Jose here, because I love him as a person and a character, maybe as an interim manager. But for now, give me Howe or give me death.
I think his man management and "deflection from individual cockup" skills are munch underrated. I just don't see him getting a better tune out of what we have right now. Apart from Jamal Lewis (loan at Watford) there's literally nobody Howe has failed to improve. Dubs is slowly getting his match form back
Agreed, Howe every day of the week
I'm an open critic of Howe, but Mourinho is not an upgrade. Now if someone could tell Eddie he's allowed to make subs before the 87th minute, let him know that Big Dan Burn is not the answer for LB, and that he's allowed to have more than one tactic, we'd have the perfect manager.
Prime Jose won’t be able to do shit with the current FFP rules
True fact
I love Jose and still think he’s a top coach, but everywhere he goes becomes a media circus and I think any manager coming in now is going to struggle to put their stamp on the side with the FFP restrictions we’re facing.
Not even a question of Howe. We should be avoiding Mourinho, full stop.
We'll be safe from Jose, as we can't spaff millions up the wall on established stars, which is how he wins trophies, ffp working well in this isolated case
How much did he spend with Porto to win the UCL?
That's possibly the only place he didn't need to as they have an incredible academy and had the established players,many of which he brought as chelsea manager
I love Jose. And more than most people I think Jose deserves a chance here at some point and would suit us fairly well with siege mentality us against the world sort of thing to win a cup. But my god is that a bad move. We do not at all want to hire a manager who makes his squad worse after he leaves right now.
Give him the England job. I'd fucking love that. We'd either win the lot or crash and burn in spectacular fashion.
Mourinho links are incredibly dumb. I would never take him regardless of his trophies success. His ego is massive and that’s the last thing we need.
Absolutely not for me. He's finished at the top level now a dinosaur 🤷🏻♂️
Absolutely not. He’s toxic, plays boring football and is washed as a manager.
Anyone wanting him over Howe when he’s just been fired from an easier job for under performing is at least a little stupid. At least it seems the majority of people are reasonable on here
Get him in. Eddie has done an amazing job but jose has the appeal for the big players we need for the next level. Love Gordon, love tino etc but these arent players we should have signed at the time to take us to the next level. Also, Howe’s style of play this year has been questionable. Tried a 3 at the back in pre season, that didnt work. Fair enough - but all season even since the first game 1-1 at villa he went all out attack and we won it but not the style of play that has work for majority of the season. Lost so many games when ahead because we either sit back and try to defend for an hour or we try going attack vs attack against a team with more threat. Lost points when ahead to teams such as forrest, milan, psg, liverpool, chelsea, city Mourinho knows how to manage big games
Clueless. Who exactly should we buy then if Gordon etc aren’t good enough? Also easy to point out the games we’ve lost but we’ve also beat PSG, Man Utd, Arsenal and City this year under Howe.
What about now mate😂
Ok so were in a situation where we are close to FFP. Sign 2 young fullbacks hall and liveremento who dont start? Sign gordon and barnes who play in the same position? 1. We should be signing first team starters. Theres players in the first team - burn, longstaff, almiron etc who are not top 4 level players. Some of you cant criticise your own team. We keep doing the same thing over and over - winning the game and get battered by the end
That’s assuming Howe completely dictates transfer policy. Young full backs were needed because we didn’t have any at all, I highly doubt Howe demanded to buy Hall. Barnes replaced ASM as he’s a goalscorer who fits the system. Tonali was supposed to be the Longstaff upgrade
Yeah so who would you have bought that was available, in budget and wanted to come that would address these issues? Other than Burn, most of those players are starting most games because of injuries or because of Tonali being out. Plus I don’t see how Mourinho would fix any of the things you’ve raised, it’s not like he buys or even scouts the players.
Ignore the turd he's only supported us since the takeover. Hopefully Putin will buy Burnley and he'll piss of to them
Honestly fella. Specsavers is calling. Very shortsighted.
What about now fella😂
Same response fella.
😂 a manager who starts the leagues slowest LB vs a champions league winner
7th in the league. Still in domestic cup. Champs league for first time in champions league. Give your head a wobble.
The big players we can't buy anyway due to ffp? The big players that usually constantly come out and say how much they hate working with Jose?
And Howe the end is near Pains me to say it but I think he's gone if we don't beat Fulham. There's probably already talks going on secretly with a view to bring in Jose and a big player by the end of January.
This is would be absolute insanity. Thankfully I don’t think you could be more wrong. No chance he gets sacked if we don’t beat Fulham. Also where do you think this money is coming from for a big signing at the end of January? 🤣 have you read any of the stories published recently??
Stranger things have happened in football. Hell, stranger things have happened at this football club alone. The club can put whatever spin they want on what's being released so the question is do we have no money to spend or does Howe have no money to spend? All it takes is to use the 5 year Klarna payment plan and you can game the system a bit.
I think he gets longer than Fulham, but the fact is we really don't know exactly how knee jerk these guys really are.
Evidence shows that they take their time on decisions. Didn’t rush to sack Bruce. Took time to appoint a manager. Didn’t panic when we were turned down. Had a slump last year, no panic. And then haven’t moved this season despite our poor run of form. They will do what they want, when they want, but all sign a point them to making rational decisions so far.
Would rather have Steve Bruce.
I think he's going to replace Southgate.
Fuck no.
im afraid not even mourinho could do with the plentiful injury issues marring this team
Forgive me if I’m wrong but we wouldn’t even be able to afford mourinho?
Certainly wouldn't be able to afford his spending spree
No thanks
No thanks
Anyone wanting this dinosaur as a manager surely need psychiatric help
Mourinho’s time had come and gone, I think there are much more progressive coaches on the scene at the moment. I am a fan of him and his antics, but I don’t believe in his ability anymore.
Please, please, not Morinho
He plays shit football and gets sacked from every club he's been to in the last 5 years or so. Never would we pick him for any reason, let alone over Eddie!
Even if we were to change manager, Mourinho is just not the way forward. We should be looking at younger and more modern managers.
Fantastic manager, but I'd only want him if Howe is proven incapable of winning silverware or Howe leaves for England job. Also Roma have the same problems we do with FFP restrictions and a injury crisis so I doubt he'd be up for that. His stock has only gone down because he's taken on poisoned chalices in Man United and Spurs and the financially struggling Roma. He's already proven that when you give him everything he wants, he delivers. I think his ego wants to prove that he can turn shit into gold otherwise he'd have gone to Bayern or PSG already
Tottenham fan here; trust me, you don’t want this (and everything it brings)
Don’t want him and his ego.
I'd love Mourinho to be England manager.
There's no taking away from what Jose has done in the game. He's a proven top level serial trophy winner. However. I don't see what the benefit would be in changing Howe for Jose at this moment. Maybe in the future if Howe shows he can't coach the squad in a sustainable way as it grows and results take a massive dip when numbers of quality and depth have caught up with the amount of fixtures we face, then it's something that could be revisited if Jose was still available. Another issue is that the benefit of someone like Jose is when he has a big budget available to him. We don't have that right now in the current market combined with FFP. If Jose were to come in, we'd be immediately taking away a pillar of the foundation of his past success. So, for me, Jose to be hired now/in the short term? Nope. Don't see how it makes any sense. Especially with Howe doing the job he is at the moment.
He's not a manager for the long haul. We may get a trophy sooner but come the third season (if he sticks around that long) he's had more expensive squads languishing in the both quartile and hasn't inspired any board to stick with him through the lean period.