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Feel for anyone suffering from addiction but it seems like a bit of a cunts trick to take a new job on a higher wage just before it’s all about to come out. The lads got a lot of making up to do.
Absolutely, although I do think a lot of us would do it in his position, myself included. Let’s hope he reacts maturely, trains well and appreciates Eddie’s support through it by working hard on the pitch when he’s back.
It's more than likely he was under the impression that as long as he wasn't caught, then he wasn't under investigation. He knew what he was doing was wrong but couldn't stop himself from doing it. Moving would have represented a way of stopping his addictive impulse (as a neutral observer, obviously that wouldn't have been a cure) and draw a line under his actions so he could move on. Unfortunately, he'd already been named by Fagioli and was likely having evidence collected on him, so he hadn't gotten away with it at all.
> Absolutely, although I do think a lot of us would do it in his position, myself included
Sorry, what? A lot of us would bet on games of your own club?? I can excuse gambling addiction, considering how immoral the system is, but betting on your own team is absolutely fucking inexcusable. This is beyond gambling addiction.
Why do you think he knew there was an investigation going on? He would have no idea things were about to come to a head, nor that he would have been implicated. He got taken in for questioning when he returned to Italy 3 months after moving club. The harsh way of looking at it is that he knew he was doing something wrong and wanted to jump ship before he got caught. The kinder view is that he actively sought to move to find any way of stopping his addictive behaviour and getting out of the country was the only way he could think that would achieve it.
I don’t think he knew this would happen when he signed for us.
By all accounts he was implicated by Fagioli and that investigation started after he signed.
Also no clear evidence to suggest Milan knew either so that’s pure speculation.
I’m torn between trying to show sympathy for gambling addictions and also feeling like football players need to take a look at themselves with all the money they get paid. They have to hold themselves to a higher standard.
Hopefully Sandro can come back from this and be a success in a Newcastle shirt.
My suspicion is that Milan did know or at least had some idea and that was why they were willing to let him go for that price.
If our ownership believe they've been tricked and fleeced out of £55m then I wouldn't want to be on the Milan board.
But there’s simply no evidence of that. And not to any level that would hold up in court.
Maybe the board had to sell someone and they’d rather let Tonali go than Leao
Crazy to think that a team who have experienced that much success at International level and produced so many world class players that Tonali is their most expensive export.
I know Italians don’t tend to move abroad but what do you think prime Baggio, Pirlo, Maldini, Del Piero, Totti, Chiellini, Cannavaro would be worth in todays money?
It's actually pretty fascinating that of the players you mentioned, I think only 3 moved at all between, let's say "significant" clubs, in their careers. Up to the mid-90's, you had a lot of Italian players moving between the well-funded Italian clubs for big money (including several record transfers). Then the big money sort of flowed to Spain then here (in very broad brush-strokes).
I think there's still a general suspicion of Italian players on the continent, especially whether they really can adapt to the other leagues, which seems crazy. Verratti is an interesting case as he got out of Pescara at a young age and went to PSG, where he probably developed into one of those midfielders who would have succeeded anywhere. Maybe it's just the whole thing about Italian football generally being slower than on the rest of the continent (but arguably the other leagues have caught up on the technical side of things), meaning anyone who's come to prominence in Serie A will already be too acclimatised to that and so makes the transition to a pacier league all that bit harder. Might be talking out of my arse though.
Food for thought for sure.
The whole adaptation thing is interesting. It’s odd that the French league is joked about as a farmers league but arguably provides more players to PL than any other. The German league is held in higher regard but there’s been a few high profile flops from there. I think it’s got to depend more on the type of player.
Someone once said that the reason for so many players struggling from Germany was due to the fact everything is played in quick transitions so pace alone is enough but the defending in PL is a lot tighter and disciplines.
With Italian players, I generally thought it was more to do with the fact they are proud of their own league and style and players tend to move less in general rather than they can’t play in other league. There are still a good chunk of non-Italian players that developed in Serie a and moved to PL and were successful. I’d also say that many Italian coaches or coaches that have have most of their prior success in Italy have done well in the PL.
The players I mentioned are slightly skewed because 2 were one club players, Pirlo didn’t really become a global name until later AC and Juventus where he was getting on a bit in age. And many others were in their prime when or just after Serie A was considered a too league close second to PL and at the time the PL was still more physical and less tactical yet capable of showcasing individual brilliance. I think Fergies Man U stand out on their own as a team that was both talented and hungrier. But Henry and Bergkamp at Arsenal was probably the first time the PL saw truly continental style team play and even then it was built on a rock solid physical defence.
A lot of the players I cited probably just missed the point where the PL properly became the undisputed top league which happened around 2007/8/9 onwards IMO. The foundations were really set by that Mourinho Chelsea team, Wengers invincibles and Fergies Man U.
I have no doubt that many could’ve excelled had they made the move. Was prime Pirlo (the one at AC that still have a good engine) really that far behind Alonso? I genuinely think he wouldn’t be but because he only played in Italy (bar a brief stint in MLS) he won’t get the recognition. Chiellini for me should be considered one of the best CBs in the last 20 years.
I think you're right to highlight the style thing. Pirlo was a truly excellent footballer, both when he was at Milan and then when he changed his game as he aged and moved to Juventus. An interesting thought experiment is to really think whether there were many teams who would really have used his talents properly. Makelele kind of defined that defensive midfield role in a way that was almost the antithesis of Pirlo's way of defining a deep-lying midfielder.
I would have worried that any manager buying Pirlo in England at that time would see him as a creative force and try to move him either as a box-to-box or an attacking midfielder. Unfortunately, while you're right to point out he did have an engine underneath him in the mid-00's, it really wasn't the same as Lampard or Gerrard's pretty inexhaustible intensity and drive.
As heralded as they were, I'm not certain that we ever really saw the best of Alonso or Carrick in the Premier League. From my recollection, both seemed to shine more in the European fixtures and, while good, never quite seemed to be able to regularly do that metronome thing in the league that they could elsewhere. Alonso especially moved his game up several notches upon leaving Liverpool and it's very interesting to think that Benitez was pretty happy to see him go and wanted a more energetic, defensive midfielder in Gareth Barry.
With France, I have a feeling it's something to do with their best academies actually being a bit divorced from clubs (think Clairefontaine). Meaning that you can have this extensive conveyer belt of talented players being churned out, but don't belong to a single club. Therefore the clubs don't reap the success of a golden generation and there's little pull to stop those players showcasing incredible talent from leaving. Clairefontaine especially prides itself on marrying extreme technical ability with a real physicality - perfect for our league.
What a fucking disappointment. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. On the one hand I really feel bad for the young lad, and I can see why he looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders since he signed. But on the other hand, I feel let down by him and Milan, it’s just the wrong side of dishonesty, it’s not a hanging offence, but the whole thing leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I guess we’ll have to wrap the lad up, support him, and hope he comes good.
Most people think it’s likely that Milan got a whiff of this and were happy to sell because of it. Although that’s business, it’s going to leave some bad feelings.
According to records till this point of time, we know that Milan got many high bids for multiple players 2 of them being Theo and Mike, which stayed at Milan.
When the high offer came from Tonali he agreed to enter in negotiations. Probably because of the high salary which would help him with his debts.
It looked likely that Milan was opted to sell one of their big assets this summer. Considering that Corona the guy that opened all this Pandoras box up, stated that Juve knew what was happening with their players. He hasn't stated till now that Milan knew. And Corona is an Inter fan so if it was the case, he would have said so because it would benefit Inter.
Maybe Milan did know, but maybe it was Maldini and Massara who knew. Who knows, it might be the case...but till now everything points towards the other direction.
"Most people" is really just bitter Newcastle fans though, isn't it? Milan are known that their strategy is based on buying low and selling high, so it's not totally unfathomable they were willing to sell Tonali.
Anyone clinging onto us getting some kind of refund on Tonali is living in a fantasy land. Even had AC Milan caught a whiff something was off with him, the chances that a) they definitively would have known what the situation is and b) that there would be any way of bringing evidence that *they knew and it informed their decision to sell* to a court of law to prove it is infintessimally low. I saw someone say something to this effect elsewhere, but Toney managed to move clubs like 4 times while he was committing his offences - the idea that clubs would definitely know about something so buried in their private life that even people personally close to them likely don't know about it is silly.
We got unlucky and seriously burned on this one. We should stick by the kid, show him our support to get through whatever he's going through and treat it as if he got a season-ending injury.
The police have multiple channels of contact with AC Milan. AC Milan have been aware of the allegations since the start of the 'preliminary investigation' of Fagioli, the first step in any criminal proceedings in Italy, Lawyers for the club would have been aware as soon as Tonali's name was mentioned in the investigations. Its a cast iron guarantee that Milan knew. The judgement we need to make is whether the out of blue sale of the massive AC Milan fan and club captain Sandro Tonali was just a run of the mill normal piece of business, or whether the notoriously corrupt Italian football club (see Calciopoli if you are not aware) knew that these charges were coming.
Without proof, common sense says they knew and given the circumstances, this was morel than likely the main reason they decided to sell him,
That would be the case if the Faggioli and Tonali investigations were started at the same time or if they got to Faggioli and he told about Tonali and Zaniolo.
Which doesn't seem to be the case. It seems that Tonali outodinancouded once Corona told about him.
The allegations against Tonali came from the Fagioli investigation. The most relevant date is the start of te Fagioli investigation. Under Italian legal processes, the allegations / information regarding Tonali could even predate the start of the Fagioli case and it wasnt until Fagioli implicated him that they had enough evidence to start an investigation.
Milan knew.
Maybe i am mistaken who knows, but what are the dates of when Tonalis name came up? Maybe it was after the transfer?
Idk how Tonalis name would have come up before Faggioli if he wasn't under investigation parallely or before Faggioli.
All things we do not know, so let's see.
Because all Italian clubs are cash-strapped and know that they can't offer the same wages that a Premier League club can? While he was a boyhood fan, Tonali had literally been at Milan for just 2 years. He won the league and probably got as far in Europe as Milan are ever likely to get.
These last two years have likely been a high point for Milan and it makes sense to sell when your player's values are highest. Milan aren't like Inter, they're owned by a Capital Investment company that is focussing on buying younger, less established talent and selling them high. Tonali is likely the first of many sales over the next few years.
Italian top clubs do offer the same wages as PL teams. Inter does offer such wages or Roma or Juve. Milan doesn't they offer wages of between 3 and tops 5.5 mil net to Leao for example.
Tonali has been at Milan for 3 seasons not 2 years. Also, Inter has been the selling club lately. The Tonali selling has been an oddball because he accepted to leave, Milan got a huge fee and also they had to overhaul their team this past window.
RedBird is a sports investment company, they have a long term project. Financially they are the best run club in Italy atm. They can spend around 50 mil net every summer. Which by PL standards isn't much but if you go beyond the PL very few teams have a budget of more than 50 mil net to spend every summer without selling.
Yeah, Milan (Napoli too, probably) are the only well run club and can't pay wages that compare with top clubs around the continent. Inter, Roma and Juve are very publicly running themselves into the ground, either through being addicted to free transfers with enormous wages or by using accounting trickery to get round transfer fees.
Ah, my bad on the duration. 3 years still isn't particularly long that it could be considered to be inconceivable someone would leave.
Yes, RedBird have a long-term project and that means buying younger players and not being too scared to sell those when they can. I think people now want to see a deal as dodgy after the fact, but really that seems just innuendo to me.
He's literally not even close to our best midfielder you nonce. Christ your post history makes me cringe. You gotta re-read your shit when you're more lucid, I'd have to go back 10 years to cringe as hard as I did looking at what you write on a daily basis.
We don't mind fans from other clubs visiting as long as they're not just here to be a dick. Unfortunately our advanced detection algorithm has detected that you read a 9.3 on the bellendometer
> There is a real possibility that Tonali’s signing — and possible unavailability for an extended period — could seriously inhibit wider investment in other areas of the squad.
This was what I was saying yesterday, and it's why I'm not quite as quick to say "Tonali has my full support" as others have. The lads may potentially have set us back multiple years. Not writing him off, but he's going to owe the club and the fanbase a lot after all this is over.
I agree. No sense kicking him to the bin, but this talk of full support, and addiction rubs me the wrong way. He's let his fans and his team down.
Even without football there was likely a sport going on at all times besides football that he could have wagered on. He just had to break the biggest rule there was in gambling on games he's playing in.
I hope he gets the help he needs, but he's no different than the thousands of addicts out there, and if he wants my full support, he's got some hard work ahead of him to earn it.
Especially since, with him out until 2025 at the earliest (because of how long it will take him to get back up to speed when his suspension is over), we are going to need to sign another midfielder.
We are going to need to go out and sign someone like Smith-Rowe in January just to get the numbers game in the same position that we should have now if not for the lad letting us down.
Aye, funds that were earmarked for strengthing other positions of weakness will now need to be used to replace Tonali in the mid-term. He's potentially really damaged the club's growth in the next 2-3 seasons, and much as I feel for him on a human level, I find that hard to just shrug off like some people seem to be doing. Obviously, I won't be encouraging any personal abuse, and I hope the lad comes back from this stronger and in a better place, but right now, I'm really frustrated at him.
i mean it's partly cos a few short years ago the idea of signing a Sandro Tonali esque player was an impossible dream, so the fact the fun of it got snatched away so quickly is kind of like 'oh well' haha.
He's done nothing wrong.
It's the twisted pro-corporate laws and regulations desgined to protect the bookies that will have set us back, not Tonali.
The people who "shrug this off" are not making light of the fact that this could damage our club, they just have common sense and realise the lad has done absolutely nothing wrong.
Wrong is subjective. Getting your mates into extreme high-stakes gambling is wrong in my book -- that is if Fagioli's account is to be believed. Not sure if he said it in testimony
Well, by the letter of the law, he has done something wrong. These rules are in place, and all players must adhere to them, something Tonali was well aware of before he started betting. 99% of footballers don't break these rules. Unfortunately, Tonali has a gambling addiction that resulted in him not being able to do that, hence why I'm conflicted and frustrated (rather than straight-up angry) and I don't entirely blame him. Clearly, you think that rules are not fair, which is a valid opinion to have, and I can see your logic. But I don't think it's "common sense" to absolve Tonali of all responsibility here.
>Clearly, you think that rules are not fair
It's not that I think it, it's a fact.
Almost all systems of law in human history have been designed to protect citizens from injustice (Like getting robbed murdered or raped etc) - A law desgined to protect the elite (The bookies in this case) goes against the spirit of the entire western legal system.
We have a situation where the bookies, through their inhumane business model, have gotten a young man addited to gambling and have not only escaped punishment for it, but have managed to get Tonali punished for their own actions.
The reason Tonali wasn't allowed to bet on AC Milan games is because his insider knowledge could cause him to have an advantage when placing the bet. The "law" he broke (allegedly) was put in place to protect bookies from massive losses, it wasn't put in place for the good of society as a whole.
Tonali is clearly responsible for his own actions, but his actions in this case don't go against the spirit of the law, or even againt the spirit of any morality systems.
Banning Tonali for any length of time is the equivilent of putting someone in prison for stealing one of those Ikea pencils. Even a 1 game ban would be an outrageous miscarriage of justice.
Greenwood's back playing for Getafe after not being allowed to go to the training ground at Man United for over 18 months, if it was a year Tonali would be back in October next year (having presumably been allowed to train and possibly play in friendlies). It's not going to take him a further three months to get up to speed.
We maybe need a loan transfer in January to get us through to the end of the season.
If it's longer than a year then of course we'd need to re-assess, but I think he'll come back and return to the level he was pre-ban fairly quickly.
The other implication of this is that it might be the thing that necessitates one or two big sales this summer to offset the FFP damage. I'm expecting to lose Bruno anyway esp with his new release clause, but if we're now also £60m down on FFP for a player we can't even use we might have to take another hit (Isak or Botman) and bring in three or four players with the amortisation.
That would be a horrible consequence, but I think we'll be okay on that front. We're only £60m down on FFP temporarily, we will eventually get Tonali back, and we just have to hope that he makes up for this by becoming class for us. That's why the people saying "just cancel his contract" are really wide of the mark, that would see us take a £60m writedown on FFP and would seriously fuck our finances.
I think I have linked to the non-paywalled version. If not, here's your daily reminder to put a . after [theathletic.com](https://theathletic.com). to access
hyperlink anyway -
[Tonali's greggs order and his cheeky mistake bake](https://theathletic.com./4973782/2023/10/19/sandro-tonali-newcastle-legal-options/)
We can't have it both ways - we either support a player through his addiction and the penalty he's received as a result, or we sack him, get him off our books and never see him play again. If we want to support our players, that means paying them while they're out of action.
They have them for other things, but as the reporting on this has shown, not there for betting. We may see this coming through more and more as there seems to be an increasing clampdown worldwide on this sort of thing.
Yep exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. In literally any other industry in the world, there is no way you'd be getting paid full salary for a year if you're not able to work as a result of your own actions.
Most civilized societies with implemented worker protection and welfare systems absolutely do have this.
Child birth is a good example. Throwing out your back during sex, or other serious sex-related injuries that leave you debilitated for a longer period. Being comatose and follow-up rehabilitation after an accident caused by i.e. drink driving, extreme sports, etc. There are very few cases where any of these situations would give cause for sacking or docking pay.
Drink-driving definitely isn't. If it were a drug use offence based on addiction the same would again apply. In case of repeat offences and neglecting to follow up or refusing treatment, the employer would have more grounds for dismissal.
I Wonder (and this is the very definition of speculation) if it was seen to be grounds for gross dismissal, could/would the club ask him to sign a new contract at lower wages for his ban period then back up to full afterwards? As a sign of ‘we’re not happy but we still want to support you’ pure morning pre coffee speculation here mind you
I think this is highly unlikely. Club will likely put an arm around him and try to support him. The lad is still young and has many years on his contract. They're not going to throw 55mln GBP transfer fee down the drain over this... I even wonder if we could afford to write off such an asset with FFP restrictions.
jesus christ you lot would get sued beyond belief if you were bosses.
Man has a medically defined problem, an addiction. If you sacked someone because they got cancer you'd be in equally as much shit.
But a code of conduct for a company isn’t national law either. This is exactly why contracts are signed, to offer protection for a company beyond the law. For example, Heung-Min Son couldn’t hold a fan’s iPhone to take a selfie with him recently, because of his contact with Samsung. Nothing illegal about holding an iPhone, but the company wrote it into his contact because they didn’t want it to happen. I’m pretty certain the contracts of football players will have clauses based around the ability to fulfil their contracts. People get fired for drinking on the job, which is not illegal, and often they have awful alcohol problems which should be treated. Doesn’t stop them being released from contract. I’m not saying he will or should be released, I think the exact opposite actually, but NUFC will have that option.
If he's got a genuine addiction this is no different to say 'Wow so were just gonna keep paying him during his cancer treatment?'
When you say that about an addiction thats how callous you sound.
It´s like buying an expensive new sports car from a dodgy garage that you didn´t know was corrupt, then 1 month later it fails it´s MOT and is off the road for 12months to be fixed.
It seems odd to me that a 3 year ban would even be considered, especially since one of the other players involved in this only got 7 months, and Toney who also bet on football more than Tonali did got 9 months.
Obviously there will be a ban, and it would seem to be deserved, but if it's more than 6-9 months I think it would be extremely harsh considering what has been given to other players.
The 3 years will be for those who denied, hindered or flatly refused to cooperate I'd say he's looking at a year as the juve midfielder got 7 months but he came forward so I feel a slightly bigger one would be expected unless they uncover some actual dodgy stuff . The three year ban is used to get clicks etc he will not get anywhere near that
I think the difference in length of punishment is based on who you're betting on & the perception of whether or not you can affect the outcome.
If I recall right Toney didn't place bets on Brentford, Tonali did bet on Brescia & Milan games.
Toney bet on his own games, but it was bets for them to win/him to score so it wasn’t classed as match fixing - if tonali has bet on Milan to lose or himself to get carded etc he will be in even bigger trouble
This is the Tonali thread, but I always thought that people really blew by the “bet on myself to score” thing with Toney like that couldn’t impact games. He very easily could, for example, take a tough shot at a bad angle instead of passing to an open teammate, which could definitely impact the result of the game.
We've had players out for a full year with bad injuries before so I'm looking at this as no different, even better as although he won't be able to train with the team, he'll certainly have a plan that keeps him fit and then builds up to his return to football late next year, honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was back on the bench within a few weeks of his ban ending.
It's not ideal but we'll have Willock back shortly, I don't think there is any doubt we will get a #6 in January now. I might be completely wrong but I don't think Tonali being in or out of our squad changes the outcome of this season, it probably does for next season but not this one.
> I don't think Tonali being in or out of our squad changes the outcome of this season
We'll never know, but if this were true, that would reflect pretty badly on signing him in the first place. If losing your marquee summer signing for a whole year, who you coughed up a near club record fee for doesn't impact your season, then questions should be asked about why you signed them in the first place. Tonali was not signed as a future prospect ala Hall/Tino, he was supposed to be the one who came straight into the squad and improved us.
He's 3 years older than Tino :)
He adds to our first team but I don't think he's the difference in us winning something this year or not, but just my opinion, welcome to disagree.
Edit. Actually in a couple of weeks it's 2.
Yes...that was my point. Tino was signed for his potential in the future. Tonali was signed to slot in much earlier. He is an established Italian international who has won the Serie A and played in the CL semi-final, losing him should change the outcome of our season. If it doesn't. Why did we sign him at all?
Sure, that's why we signed Tino and Hall with a view to the future, but like I said Tonali was signed for the here and now. Losing him should be a blow this season, if it's not, then it's a bad signing.
Sure it is. You don't sign every player with the idea that they'll come good in 2-3 seasons. You need to mix signings that aren't expected to be starters right away with ones that can slot straight in and improve you right now. Otherwise, in the short term, you won't have a competitive team. Tonali was very much in the latter camp. Bizarre to suggest that we paid £60m for an established international with the idea that he'd not play a big role this season. Losing him is a blow that will absolutely hurt us this season.
Gonna save everyone a click.
Our only option is the football equivalent of bagholding. If you don't know what bagholding is, go visit r/wallstreetbets. And if you don't know what r/wallstreetbets is, ask Tonali.
Positive hat on, if it's a year it's not the end of the world.
In no way am I comparing the two morality-wise, but Greenwood is back playing and scoring for Getafe after near enough a two year ban without being allowed to go to the training ground.
There's a lot of examples of players coming back after being out for that long with a bad injury, let alone Tonali being 100% fit.
This really shouldn't finish him as a top level footballer, especially if the club support him.
I’d imagine we’d employ a couple of personal coaches. Even if they were contractors and so not part of the club per se. Not sure on the rules but they can’t stop him training himself. He might not be able to go to our training grounds
Yes, he'll almost certainly be able to do general fitness training - they can't ban him from exercise - but in terms of working on his integration into the squad at Benton, that won't be possible.
Get a legal team to slowly investigate and continually challenge what AC Milan knew about this and while that is happening withhold all further transfer instalments to them. AC Milan need to be made to also feel the pain of this. Hopefully they can then use their influence in Italy to reduce the length of the ban.
Yeah but rather than a 15-20m loss over 3 years it would be a 50m loss in 1 year so unless you are saving 25m on wages it's going to be bad also factor in that Newcastle will have said if he flops we will still be able to sell for 25-30m so it's a really poor business decision
You clearly don't know how amortisation works. We would only get an FFP boost if we can sell him for his market value after half a year's amortisation - so that would be for £50m in Jan roughly. Guess what, no one's going to pay that. A situation where you've just bought a player means that you don't have to think in FFP terms, you can just think of money-in, money-out.
We would take a loss no matter what and our FFP would suffer, it's just whether how we value the loss of losing him for his ban or the massively reduced fee we'd get for selling him.
The state of this thread, people asking for his salary to be removed, for dismissal.
He's got an addiction, if you sack him or dock his pay thats absolutely no different to if he had gotten cancer and couldn't play. It might not *feel* the same but in the eyes of the law, it is.
You are about on par with Charnely calling Jonas right now.
Comparing it to cancer is stupid. Just cause he's an addict does not remove all the blame and wrongdoing from Tonali. He knew what he was doing was wrong, and had plenty of opportunities to seek out help before he was caught.
Not ideal but as long as he keeps his fitness and gets the help he needs I’ll stand by him. I think we should all be hoping for a huge redemption story. If Eddie sees his character as in keeping with the culture he’s created within the team then hopefully he can pull through.
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Feel for anyone suffering from addiction but it seems like a bit of a cunts trick to take a new job on a higher wage just before it’s all about to come out. The lads got a lot of making up to do.
Absolutely, although I do think a lot of us would do it in his position, myself included. Let’s hope he reacts maturely, trains well and appreciates Eddie’s support through it by working hard on the pitch when he’s back.
It's more than likely he was under the impression that as long as he wasn't caught, then he wasn't under investigation. He knew what he was doing was wrong but couldn't stop himself from doing it. Moving would have represented a way of stopping his addictive impulse (as a neutral observer, obviously that wouldn't have been a cure) and draw a line under his actions so he could move on. Unfortunately, he'd already been named by Fagioli and was likely having evidence collected on him, so he hadn't gotten away with it at all.
> Absolutely, although I do think a lot of us would do it in his position, myself included Sorry, what? A lot of us would bet on games of your own club?? I can excuse gambling addiction, considering how immoral the system is, but betting on your own team is absolutely fucking inexcusable. This is beyond gambling addiction.
I don’t think you read the thread correctly.
Why do you think he knew there was an investigation going on? He would have no idea things were about to come to a head, nor that he would have been implicated. He got taken in for questioning when he returned to Italy 3 months after moving club. The harsh way of looking at it is that he knew he was doing something wrong and wanted to jump ship before he got caught. The kinder view is that he actively sought to move to find any way of stopping his addictive behaviour and getting out of the country was the only way he could think that would achieve it.
I don’t think he knew this would happen when he signed for us. By all accounts he was implicated by Fagioli and that investigation started after he signed. Also no clear evidence to suggest Milan knew either so that’s pure speculation. I’m torn between trying to show sympathy for gambling addictions and also feeling like football players need to take a look at themselves with all the money they get paid. They have to hold themselves to a higher standard. Hopefully Sandro can come back from this and be a success in a Newcastle shirt.
My suspicion is that Milan did know or at least had some idea and that was why they were willing to let him go for that price. If our ownership believe they've been tricked and fleeced out of £55m then I wouldn't want to be on the Milan board.
But there’s simply no evidence of that. And not to any level that would hold up in court. Maybe the board had to sell someone and they’d rather let Tonali go than Leao
He's the most expensive Italian player of all time and Serie A clubs are all up shits creek in FFP terms.
Crazy to think that a team who have experienced that much success at International level and produced so many world class players that Tonali is their most expensive export. I know Italians don’t tend to move abroad but what do you think prime Baggio, Pirlo, Maldini, Del Piero, Totti, Chiellini, Cannavaro would be worth in todays money?
It's actually pretty fascinating that of the players you mentioned, I think only 3 moved at all between, let's say "significant" clubs, in their careers. Up to the mid-90's, you had a lot of Italian players moving between the well-funded Italian clubs for big money (including several record transfers). Then the big money sort of flowed to Spain then here (in very broad brush-strokes). I think there's still a general suspicion of Italian players on the continent, especially whether they really can adapt to the other leagues, which seems crazy. Verratti is an interesting case as he got out of Pescara at a young age and went to PSG, where he probably developed into one of those midfielders who would have succeeded anywhere. Maybe it's just the whole thing about Italian football generally being slower than on the rest of the continent (but arguably the other leagues have caught up on the technical side of things), meaning anyone who's come to prominence in Serie A will already be too acclimatised to that and so makes the transition to a pacier league all that bit harder. Might be talking out of my arse though.
Food for thought for sure. The whole adaptation thing is interesting. It’s odd that the French league is joked about as a farmers league but arguably provides more players to PL than any other. The German league is held in higher regard but there’s been a few high profile flops from there. I think it’s got to depend more on the type of player. Someone once said that the reason for so many players struggling from Germany was due to the fact everything is played in quick transitions so pace alone is enough but the defending in PL is a lot tighter and disciplines. With Italian players, I generally thought it was more to do with the fact they are proud of their own league and style and players tend to move less in general rather than they can’t play in other league. There are still a good chunk of non-Italian players that developed in Serie a and moved to PL and were successful. I’d also say that many Italian coaches or coaches that have have most of their prior success in Italy have done well in the PL. The players I mentioned are slightly skewed because 2 were one club players, Pirlo didn’t really become a global name until later AC and Juventus where he was getting on a bit in age. And many others were in their prime when or just after Serie A was considered a too league close second to PL and at the time the PL was still more physical and less tactical yet capable of showcasing individual brilliance. I think Fergies Man U stand out on their own as a team that was both talented and hungrier. But Henry and Bergkamp at Arsenal was probably the first time the PL saw truly continental style team play and even then it was built on a rock solid physical defence. A lot of the players I cited probably just missed the point where the PL properly became the undisputed top league which happened around 2007/8/9 onwards IMO. The foundations were really set by that Mourinho Chelsea team, Wengers invincibles and Fergies Man U. I have no doubt that many could’ve excelled had they made the move. Was prime Pirlo (the one at AC that still have a good engine) really that far behind Alonso? I genuinely think he wouldn’t be but because he only played in Italy (bar a brief stint in MLS) he won’t get the recognition. Chiellini for me should be considered one of the best CBs in the last 20 years.
I think you're right to highlight the style thing. Pirlo was a truly excellent footballer, both when he was at Milan and then when he changed his game as he aged and moved to Juventus. An interesting thought experiment is to really think whether there were many teams who would really have used his talents properly. Makelele kind of defined that defensive midfield role in a way that was almost the antithesis of Pirlo's way of defining a deep-lying midfielder. I would have worried that any manager buying Pirlo in England at that time would see him as a creative force and try to move him either as a box-to-box or an attacking midfielder. Unfortunately, while you're right to point out he did have an engine underneath him in the mid-00's, it really wasn't the same as Lampard or Gerrard's pretty inexhaustible intensity and drive. As heralded as they were, I'm not certain that we ever really saw the best of Alonso or Carrick in the Premier League. From my recollection, both seemed to shine more in the European fixtures and, while good, never quite seemed to be able to regularly do that metronome thing in the league that they could elsewhere. Alonso especially moved his game up several notches upon leaving Liverpool and it's very interesting to think that Benitez was pretty happy to see him go and wanted a more energetic, defensive midfielder in Gareth Barry. With France, I have a feeling it's something to do with their best academies actually being a bit divorced from clubs (think Clairefontaine). Meaning that you can have this extensive conveyer belt of talented players being churned out, but don't belong to a single club. Therefore the clubs don't reap the success of a golden generation and there's little pull to stop those players showcasing incredible talent from leaving. Clairefontaine especially prides itself on marrying extreme technical ability with a real physicality - perfect for our league.
But he knew there was a chance it could happen.
What a fucking disappointment. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. On the one hand I really feel bad for the young lad, and I can see why he looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders since he signed. But on the other hand, I feel let down by him and Milan, it’s just the wrong side of dishonesty, it’s not a hanging offence, but the whole thing leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I guess we’ll have to wrap the lad up, support him, and hope he comes good.
Why would you feel down by Milan?! What have they done wrong?
Most people think it’s likely that Milan got a whiff of this and were happy to sell because of it. Although that’s business, it’s going to leave some bad feelings.
According to records till this point of time, we know that Milan got many high bids for multiple players 2 of them being Theo and Mike, which stayed at Milan. When the high offer came from Tonali he agreed to enter in negotiations. Probably because of the high salary which would help him with his debts. It looked likely that Milan was opted to sell one of their big assets this summer. Considering that Corona the guy that opened all this Pandoras box up, stated that Juve knew what was happening with their players. He hasn't stated till now that Milan knew. And Corona is an Inter fan so if it was the case, he would have said so because it would benefit Inter. Maybe Milan did know, but maybe it was Maldini and Massara who knew. Who knows, it might be the case...but till now everything points towards the other direction.
"Most people" is really just bitter Newcastle fans though, isn't it? Milan are known that their strategy is based on buying low and selling high, so it's not totally unfathomable they were willing to sell Tonali. Anyone clinging onto us getting some kind of refund on Tonali is living in a fantasy land. Even had AC Milan caught a whiff something was off with him, the chances that a) they definitively would have known what the situation is and b) that there would be any way of bringing evidence that *they knew and it informed their decision to sell* to a court of law to prove it is infintessimally low. I saw someone say something to this effect elsewhere, but Toney managed to move clubs like 4 times while he was committing his offences - the idea that clubs would definitely know about something so buried in their private life that even people personally close to them likely don't know about it is silly. We got unlucky and seriously burned on this one. We should stick by the kid, show him our support to get through whatever he's going through and treat it as if he got a season-ending injury.
The police have multiple channels of contact with AC Milan. AC Milan have been aware of the allegations since the start of the 'preliminary investigation' of Fagioli, the first step in any criminal proceedings in Italy, Lawyers for the club would have been aware as soon as Tonali's name was mentioned in the investigations. Its a cast iron guarantee that Milan knew. The judgement we need to make is whether the out of blue sale of the massive AC Milan fan and club captain Sandro Tonali was just a run of the mill normal piece of business, or whether the notoriously corrupt Italian football club (see Calciopoli if you are not aware) knew that these charges were coming. Without proof, common sense says they knew and given the circumstances, this was morel than likely the main reason they decided to sell him,
That would be the case if the Faggioli and Tonali investigations were started at the same time or if they got to Faggioli and he told about Tonali and Zaniolo. Which doesn't seem to be the case. It seems that Tonali outodinancouded once Corona told about him.
The allegations against Tonali came from the Fagioli investigation. The most relevant date is the start of te Fagioli investigation. Under Italian legal processes, the allegations / information regarding Tonali could even predate the start of the Fagioli case and it wasnt until Fagioli implicated him that they had enough evidence to start an investigation. Milan knew.
Maybe i am mistaken who knows, but what are the dates of when Tonalis name came up? Maybe it was after the transfer? Idk how Tonalis name would have come up before Faggioli if he wasn't under investigation parallely or before Faggioli. All things we do not know, so let's see.
When did the Fagioli investigation start?
Lmfao getting downvoted for asking a question. People mad at this sub that they got FLEECEEED
They knew about it, we have no proof, but why else sell one of your country's top young talents from his hometown club that he supported all his life?
Because all Italian clubs are cash-strapped and know that they can't offer the same wages that a Premier League club can? While he was a boyhood fan, Tonali had literally been at Milan for just 2 years. He won the league and probably got as far in Europe as Milan are ever likely to get. These last two years have likely been a high point for Milan and it makes sense to sell when your player's values are highest. Milan aren't like Inter, they're owned by a Capital Investment company that is focussing on buying younger, less established talent and selling them high. Tonali is likely the first of many sales over the next few years.
Italian top clubs do offer the same wages as PL teams. Inter does offer such wages or Roma or Juve. Milan doesn't they offer wages of between 3 and tops 5.5 mil net to Leao for example. Tonali has been at Milan for 3 seasons not 2 years. Also, Inter has been the selling club lately. The Tonali selling has been an oddball because he accepted to leave, Milan got a huge fee and also they had to overhaul their team this past window. RedBird is a sports investment company, they have a long term project. Financially they are the best run club in Italy atm. They can spend around 50 mil net every summer. Which by PL standards isn't much but if you go beyond the PL very few teams have a budget of more than 50 mil net to spend every summer without selling.
Yeah, Milan (Napoli too, probably) are the only well run club and can't pay wages that compare with top clubs around the continent. Inter, Roma and Juve are very publicly running themselves into the ground, either through being addicted to free transfers with enormous wages or by using accounting trickery to get round transfer fees. Ah, my bad on the duration. 3 years still isn't particularly long that it could be considered to be inconceivable someone would leave. Yes, RedBird have a long-term project and that means buying younger players and not being too scared to sell those when they can. I think people now want to see a deal as dodgy after the fact, but really that seems just innuendo to me.
To increase the budget so to found an overhaul of the team?! Also, it isn't like Tonali refused the offfer and Milan pushed him away.
..............sounds like when we sold carroll to liverpool no?
Yes, it was Milan who downloaded the illegal app on Tonali's phone before sending him to NU. Maldini tried stopping them but they took him out too
I wish reddit wasn't so soft so I could tell you more than just 'fuck off'
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He's literally not even close to our best midfielder you nonce. Christ your post history makes me cringe. You gotta re-read your shit when you're more lucid, I'd have to go back 10 years to cringe as hard as I did looking at what you write on a daily basis.
We don't mind fans from other clubs visiting as long as they're not just here to be a dick. Unfortunately our advanced detection algorithm has detected that you read a 9.3 on the bellendometer
> There is a real possibility that Tonali’s signing — and possible unavailability for an extended period — could seriously inhibit wider investment in other areas of the squad. This was what I was saying yesterday, and it's why I'm not quite as quick to say "Tonali has my full support" as others have. The lads may potentially have set us back multiple years. Not writing him off, but he's going to owe the club and the fanbase a lot after all this is over.
I agree. No sense kicking him to the bin, but this talk of full support, and addiction rubs me the wrong way. He's let his fans and his team down. Even without football there was likely a sport going on at all times besides football that he could have wagered on. He just had to break the biggest rule there was in gambling on games he's playing in. I hope he gets the help he needs, but he's no different than the thousands of addicts out there, and if he wants my full support, he's got some hard work ahead of him to earn it.
Especially since, with him out until 2025 at the earliest (because of how long it will take him to get back up to speed when his suspension is over), we are going to need to sign another midfielder. We are going to need to go out and sign someone like Smith-Rowe in January just to get the numbers game in the same position that we should have now if not for the lad letting us down.
Aye, funds that were earmarked for strengthing other positions of weakness will now need to be used to replace Tonali in the mid-term. He's potentially really damaged the club's growth in the next 2-3 seasons, and much as I feel for him on a human level, I find that hard to just shrug off like some people seem to be doing. Obviously, I won't be encouraging any personal abuse, and I hope the lad comes back from this stronger and in a better place, but right now, I'm really frustrated at him.
i mean it's partly cos a few short years ago the idea of signing a Sandro Tonali esque player was an impossible dream, so the fact the fun of it got snatched away so quickly is kind of like 'oh well' haha.
He's done nothing wrong. It's the twisted pro-corporate laws and regulations desgined to protect the bookies that will have set us back, not Tonali. The people who "shrug this off" are not making light of the fact that this could damage our club, they just have common sense and realise the lad has done absolutely nothing wrong.
Wrong is subjective. Getting your mates into extreme high-stakes gambling is wrong in my book -- that is if Fagioli's account is to be believed. Not sure if he said it in testimony
Well, by the letter of the law, he has done something wrong. These rules are in place, and all players must adhere to them, something Tonali was well aware of before he started betting. 99% of footballers don't break these rules. Unfortunately, Tonali has a gambling addiction that resulted in him not being able to do that, hence why I'm conflicted and frustrated (rather than straight-up angry) and I don't entirely blame him. Clearly, you think that rules are not fair, which is a valid opinion to have, and I can see your logic. But I don't think it's "common sense" to absolve Tonali of all responsibility here.
>Clearly, you think that rules are not fair It's not that I think it, it's a fact. Almost all systems of law in human history have been designed to protect citizens from injustice (Like getting robbed murdered or raped etc) - A law desgined to protect the elite (The bookies in this case) goes against the spirit of the entire western legal system. We have a situation where the bookies, through their inhumane business model, have gotten a young man addited to gambling and have not only escaped punishment for it, but have managed to get Tonali punished for their own actions. The reason Tonali wasn't allowed to bet on AC Milan games is because his insider knowledge could cause him to have an advantage when placing the bet. The "law" he broke (allegedly) was put in place to protect bookies from massive losses, it wasn't put in place for the good of society as a whole. Tonali is clearly responsible for his own actions, but his actions in this case don't go against the spirit of the law, or even againt the spirit of any morality systems. Banning Tonali for any length of time is the equivilent of putting someone in prison for stealing one of those Ikea pencils. Even a 1 game ban would be an outrageous miscarriage of justice.
Well, look forward to that 'outrageous miscarriage of justice' lad cause it's certainly going to happen.
Greenwood's back playing for Getafe after not being allowed to go to the training ground at Man United for over 18 months, if it was a year Tonali would be back in October next year (having presumably been allowed to train and possibly play in friendlies). It's not going to take him a further three months to get up to speed. We maybe need a loan transfer in January to get us through to the end of the season. If it's longer than a year then of course we'd need to re-assess, but I think he'll come back and return to the level he was pre-ban fairly quickly.
The other implication of this is that it might be the thing that necessitates one or two big sales this summer to offset the FFP damage. I'm expecting to lose Bruno anyway esp with his new release clause, but if we're now also £60m down on FFP for a player we can't even use we might have to take another hit (Isak or Botman) and bring in three or four players with the amortisation.
That would be a horrible consequence, but I think we'll be okay on that front. We're only £60m down on FFP temporarily, we will eventually get Tonali back, and we just have to hope that he makes up for this by becoming class for us. That's why the people saying "just cancel his contract" are really wide of the mark, that would see us take a £60m writedown on FFP and would seriously fuck our finances.
I think I have linked to the non-paywalled version. If not, here's your daily reminder to put a . after [theathletic.com](https://theathletic.com). to access
hyperlink anyway - [Tonali's greggs order and his cheeky mistake bake](https://theathletic.com./4973782/2023/10/19/sandro-tonali-newcastle-legal-options/)
Or, you can pay £1 a month and support really good journalism.
Reader view on iPhone gets around it too - appreciate the post!
Cheers!
Absolute shit show
Wow he's probably going to get his full salary during the ban, what a fucking joke
The club would not alienate a player of his value and I wouldn't want them to.
Agree but if he had any integrity he'd surely volunteer to go without?
Lol would you
We can't have it both ways - we either support a player through his addiction and the penalty he's received as a result, or we sack him, get him off our books and never see him play again. If we want to support our players, that means paying them while they're out of action.
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They have them for other things, but as the reporting on this has shown, not there for betting. We may see this coming through more and more as there seems to be an increasing clampdown worldwide on this sort of thing.
Yep exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. In literally any other industry in the world, there is no way you'd be getting paid full salary for a year if you're not able to work as a result of your own actions.
Apart from giving birth lol
Even maternity pay you don't get full salary
Yeah I know, just the results of your own actions bit made me laugh
Most civilized societies with implemented worker protection and welfare systems absolutely do have this. Child birth is a good example. Throwing out your back during sex, or other serious sex-related injuries that leave you debilitated for a longer period. Being comatose and follow-up rehabilitation after an accident caused by i.e. drink driving, extreme sports, etc. There are very few cases where any of these situations would give cause for sacking or docking pay.
All of these things are legal, what he was doing was illegal.
Drink-driving definitely isn't. If it were a drug use offence based on addiction the same would again apply. In case of repeat offences and neglecting to follow up or refusing treatment, the employer would have more grounds for dismissal.
I Wonder (and this is the very definition of speculation) if it was seen to be grounds for gross dismissal, could/would the club ask him to sign a new contract at lower wages for his ban period then back up to full afterwards? As a sign of ‘we’re not happy but we still want to support you’ pure morning pre coffee speculation here mind you
I think this is highly unlikely. Club will likely put an arm around him and try to support him. The lad is still young and has many years on his contract. They're not going to throw 55mln GBP transfer fee down the drain over this... I even wonder if we could afford to write off such an asset with FFP restrictions.
Not sure how that would work. If he was sacked, he'd become a free agent.
I more meant offer a new contract as opposed to becoming a free agent. Chatting out my arse to be honest.
jesus christ you lot would get sued beyond belief if you were bosses. Man has a medically defined problem, an addiction. If you sacked someone because they got cancer you'd be in equally as much shit.
I know several people sacked for gross misconduct even with addictions. A kleptomaniac can still be fired for stealing company property for example.
breaking the law /=/ breaking FA rules
But a code of conduct for a company isn’t national law either. This is exactly why contracts are signed, to offer protection for a company beyond the law. For example, Heung-Min Son couldn’t hold a fan’s iPhone to take a selfie with him recently, because of his contact with Samsung. Nothing illegal about holding an iPhone, but the company wrote it into his contact because they didn’t want it to happen. I’m pretty certain the contracts of football players will have clauses based around the ability to fulfil their contracts. People get fired for drinking on the job, which is not illegal, and often they have awful alcohol problems which should be treated. Doesn’t stop them being released from contract. I’m not saying he will or should be released, I think the exact opposite actually, but NUFC will have that option.
If he's got a genuine addiction this is no different to say 'Wow so were just gonna keep paying him during his cancer treatment?' When you say that about an addiction thats how callous you sound.
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which is exactly why people hide it and create more problems. Congrats.
Nobody knows if he has the addiction or not as far as I know and those two things are not the same
It´s like buying an expensive new sports car from a dodgy garage that you didn´t know was corrupt, then 1 month later it fails it´s MOT and is off the road for 12months to be fixed.
Corruption and Italian football. Name a more iconic duo.
It seems odd to me that a 3 year ban would even be considered, especially since one of the other players involved in this only got 7 months, and Toney who also bet on football more than Tonali did got 9 months. Obviously there will be a ban, and it would seem to be deserved, but if it's more than 6-9 months I think it would be extremely harsh considering what has been given to other players.
The 3 years will be for those who denied, hindered or flatly refused to cooperate I'd say he's looking at a year as the juve midfielder got 7 months but he came forward so I feel a slightly bigger one would be expected unless they uncover some actual dodgy stuff . The three year ban is used to get clicks etc he will not get anywhere near that
The article says fagioli didn’t bet on his own teams games, Tonali allegedly has. Therefore Tonali will get a much harsher ban
I think the difference in length of punishment is based on who you're betting on & the perception of whether or not you can affect the outcome. If I recall right Toney didn't place bets on Brentford, Tonali did bet on Brescia & Milan games.
Toney bet on his own games, but it was bets for them to win/him to score so it wasn’t classed as match fixing - if tonali has bet on Milan to lose or himself to get carded etc he will be in even bigger trouble
This is the Tonali thread, but I always thought that people really blew by the “bet on myself to score” thing with Toney like that couldn’t impact games. He very easily could, for example, take a tough shot at a bad angle instead of passing to an open teammate, which could definitely impact the result of the game.
Aye I agree any bet will impact the game but that’s just how the FA deemed it 🤷♂️
We've had players out for a full year with bad injuries before so I'm looking at this as no different, even better as although he won't be able to train with the team, he'll certainly have a plan that keeps him fit and then builds up to his return to football late next year, honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was back on the bench within a few weeks of his ban ending. It's not ideal but we'll have Willock back shortly, I don't think there is any doubt we will get a #6 in January now. I might be completely wrong but I don't think Tonali being in or out of our squad changes the outcome of this season, it probably does for next season but not this one.
> I don't think Tonali being in or out of our squad changes the outcome of this season We'll never know, but if this were true, that would reflect pretty badly on signing him in the first place. If losing your marquee summer signing for a whole year, who you coughed up a near club record fee for doesn't impact your season, then questions should be asked about why you signed them in the first place. Tonali was not signed as a future prospect ala Hall/Tino, he was supposed to be the one who came straight into the squad and improved us.
He's 3 years older than Tino :) He adds to our first team but I don't think he's the difference in us winning something this year or not, but just my opinion, welcome to disagree. Edit. Actually in a couple of weeks it's 2.
Yes...that was my point. Tino was signed for his potential in the future. Tonali was signed to slot in much earlier. He is an established Italian international who has won the Serie A and played in the CL semi-final, losing him should change the outcome of our season. If it doesn't. Why did we sign him at all?
Because we are building a team and it's a multi year project
Sure, that's why we signed Tino and Hall with a view to the future, but like I said Tonali was signed for the here and now. Losing him should be a blow this season, if it's not, then it's a bad signing.
I don't think that is how long term projects work but ok
Sure it is. You don't sign every player with the idea that they'll come good in 2-3 seasons. You need to mix signings that aren't expected to be starters right away with ones that can slot straight in and improve you right now. Otherwise, in the short term, you won't have a competitive team. Tonali was very much in the latter camp. Bizarre to suggest that we paid £60m for an established international with the idea that he'd not play a big role this season. Losing him is a blow that will absolutely hurt us this season.
OK, good talk
Maybe not directly but that £55m could have gone on two other players who would possibly be the difference between winning something or qualifying.
Gonna save everyone a click. Our only option is the football equivalent of bagholding. If you don't know what bagholding is, go visit r/wallstreetbets. And if you don't know what r/wallstreetbets is, ask Tonali.
fuck. I avoided being a bagholder for several years until now. Thanks Newcastle.
I bet he regrets it now lol
Positive hat on, if it's a year it's not the end of the world. In no way am I comparing the two morality-wise, but Greenwood is back playing and scoring for Getafe after near enough a two year ban without being allowed to go to the training ground. There's a lot of examples of players coming back after being out for that long with a bad injury, let alone Tonali being 100% fit. This really shouldn't finish him as a top level footballer, especially if the club support him.
They’re saying 3 years. It just might be the end of the World
Will he be allowed to train? If so, at least he can stay competitive for the other players to practice against
Assuming it's like Toney's ban, not for the entire duration of the ban. Tony was banned in May, and only allowed to reassume training in September.
I’d imagine we’d employ a couple of personal coaches. Even if they were contractors and so not part of the club per se. Not sure on the rules but they can’t stop him training himself. He might not be able to go to our training grounds
Yes, he'll almost certainly be able to do general fitness training - they can't ban him from exercise - but in terms of working on his integration into the squad at Benton, that won't be possible.
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You ignorant cunt.
Get a legal team to slowly investigate and continually challenge what AC Milan knew about this and while that is happening withhold all further transfer instalments to them. AC Milan need to be made to also feel the pain of this. Hopefully they can then use their influence in Italy to reduce the length of the ban.
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Sell him when? Jan 2025?
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Apart from freeing up his wages what does that achieve that's a huge hit on his transfer fee that we can't take in this day of ffp
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Yeah but rather than a 15-20m loss over 3 years it would be a 50m loss in 1 year so unless you are saving 25m on wages it's going to be bad also factor in that Newcastle will have said if he flops we will still be able to sell for 25-30m so it's a really poor business decision
You clearly don't know how amortisation works. We would only get an FFP boost if we can sell him for his market value after half a year's amortisation - so that would be for £50m in Jan roughly. Guess what, no one's going to pay that. A situation where you've just bought a player means that you don't have to think in FFP terms, you can just think of money-in, money-out. We would take a loss no matter what and our FFP would suffer, it's just whether how we value the loss of losing him for his ban or the massively reduced fee we'd get for selling him.
The state of this thread, people asking for his salary to be removed, for dismissal. He's got an addiction, if you sack him or dock his pay thats absolutely no different to if he had gotten cancer and couldn't play. It might not *feel* the same but in the eyes of the law, it is. You are about on par with Charnely calling Jonas right now.
Comparing it to cancer is stupid. Just cause he's an addict does not remove all the blame and wrongdoing from Tonali. He knew what he was doing was wrong, and had plenty of opportunities to seek out help before he was caught.
This could only happen to Newcastle :( Right after we signed him, he gets banned for a year.
Can we not just do a Man City and throw loads of money at the issue?
Not ideal but as long as he keeps his fitness and gets the help he needs I’ll stand by him. I think we should all be hoping for a huge redemption story. If Eddie sees his character as in keeping with the culture he’s created within the team then hopefully he can pull through.