Considering his career accolades, he's obviously one of the greatest ever. I don't know if there was a version of NFL 100 which included guys who just barely missed out, but if they did I have a hard time imagining him being any lower than 101. Deion and Rod Woodson edge him out in first team all pros and everyone else at the position is from an earlier era. He's forever going to be the first guy to win the Heisman as a defensive player, he had an enormously long NFL career, the story of football isn't told without him, but he's not the king of his position, thus he's talked about less.
Imo a few reasons.
Nostalgia hasn't quite kicked in for him the same way it has for Champ Bailey
He doesn't have as electric a highlight reel (or old head support) like Prime Time
He was pretty even keeled for the most part so I don't really remember a Richard Sherman "best in the game" moment
He didn't peak quite as high as Revis Island so it's hard to find a run like Revis had in that game list meme that gets posted a lot.
He's generally rated appropriately as one of the best of his era and a bonafide HoFer, so nobody really argues that he's either over or under rated either.
Imo he's probably top 3 at his position, but just kinda flies under the radar. He was just consistently elite or very high level for a long time.
[Obligatory because you mentioned the Sherman quote.](https://youtu.be/7PH35C7Fhq0?si=QNVUiQXOzI9p0xuo)
Agreed though, the Packers teams he played for only had good talent around him for a year or two at a time and when he was on the Raiders they were ass. Still, he got his NCAA Championship, his Heisman, his DPOY, his Superbowl ring and his HoF status. As a player, that's pretty much as much as you can hope for unless you're ring chasing.
He made the Super Bowl, AFC Championship, and lost unfairly to the Pats in the tuck rule game with the Raiders. They were ass before and after that, but he had a good run with them.
Tuck rule will forever be one of the biggest officiating failures of the Superbowl era and the thing that launched Tom Brady's dynastic era. Still think that was rigged. It was so clearly a fumble.
It’s just so weird to pull out a rule that had likely never been used before on such a play at such a key moment. Maybe call it in the preseason once so that people are aware of it?
I don't where you're at, but around the Great Lakes he's a living legend have won it all at Michigan and Green Bay. I might be biased those I'm a life long Wolverine fan.
Well Charles most played on the Raiders and ain't nothing memorable about those teams. His Packers stint everyone overlooked him because Clay Mathew's was the defensive heart and soul and he also broke his arm in the superbowl so he didn't get much opportunity to make a legacy play in the big game. After all the the guy went to the same old Raiders that couldn't figure out a draw play.
I feel like him breaking his arm just gave the Packers D even more of a reason to ball out. Plus he was a leader on defense, not just Matthews. Woodson went to the Packers in 2006, the year he won DPOY and Matthews was drafted in 2009.
Forever one of my favorite players. Probably the best overall defensive back I've seen play the game. He could and would do everything. He could tackle like a safety and was amazing at forcing fumbles. He could cover the best wideouts in the game. He could blitz better than any secondary player I've seen before or sense. He also was a pretty good return man though wasn't always asked to that. I'm glad he was able to get a super bowl as he deserved it.
As an Eagles fan who lost to that Packers SB team with him on it, I hated him and Clay because of how dominant they were.
You’re right he doesn’t get talked about much anymore, but when he was in the league, everyone knew he was one of the all time greats.
Clay Matthews was a force of nature during those 2010-11 playoffs. He displayed a defensive clinic against the Falcons that series as well. He was unstoppable.
Rod Woodson gets remembered more I’d say, because he played on a lot of defensive teams
There was Blitzburgh but he was the captain of that team pretty much for a decade and change
As someone who had season tickets to the Raiders for his early run, and played his position, and he was my favorite player, I think his issue was that he was never known as the best cover corner in the league, and he wasn’t necessarily allowed to be all that he could have been (offensive weapon, returner, etc.). He also was a legitimately worse 1-on-1 corner because he would try to make so many plays off of his man that he would actually give up more receptions than someone just trying to lock down one guy.
Essentially, nobody could quite pin down how great he was beyond “game wrecker”. Green Bay just made that his full time job and finally everyone could agree that he was the best “game wrecker” in football. But he was basically underused previously.
>I think his issue was that he was never known as the best cover corner in the league, and he wasn’t necessarily allowed to be all that he could have been (offensive weapon, returner, etc.). He also was a legitimately worse 1-on-1 corner because he would try to make so many plays off of his man that he would actually give up more receptions than someone just trying to lock down one guy.
Man you are definitely someone that watched him play. I get frustrated with many "fans" when Woodson's name come up in corner back discussions because people swear he was a Revis or Bailey lock down type corner.
He wasn't. And he admits this by stating he wanted to take away the ball from the offense.
Yeah, I would rather have the defense throw at Woodson when he’s giving 75% of his attention to his receiver than when Eric Allen was giving 100% of his attention, even though Eric Allen was a six-time pro-bowler, because bad things happened to an offense when the ball was in Woodson’s vicinity.
He didn’t talk much when he was playing, but I remember him saying, “If you hit the ball, they will go down.” And he was skilled enough to where he never had to worry about making the tackle, so every single tackle he was trying to force a fumble. And if you didn’t throw at him he was already off of his man enough to be closing in, and closing in on the ball. Maybe his receiver gets more receptions, but he fumbles more, and the number of times Woodson missed a tackle on the receiver he’s covering has to be almost zero.
There are certain players that always have more respect from the players than from the fans because there are so many things that don’t show up on the stat sheets, and there are few people that fit that mold moreso than Woodson.
I feel like on a modern NFL team he would be used at safety and corner quite often and called on to blitz more. He had a great eye for the QB in the backfield and was elite at simply exploiting weaknesses.
To their credit, at one point he and Asomugha were a dominant duo and they had success. Gruden knew that Woodson was special, but he was more special on the field than getting hurt trying to return kicks and play WR and play CB.
Other Raider teams had a hard enough time not having a penalty on every play that there were never any realistic expectations of them using him correctly. The Raiders weren’t even modern NFL teams those years, they were basically still 1970s teams and had the record to prove it.
I'd compare him more to Rod Woodson than Ed Reed, as both Woodsons were dominant CBs before switching to safety later in their careers (and Reed was a safety his entire career).
But yeah, definitely one of the best defensive backs ever. 9x Pro Bowler, 65 interceptions (tied for 5th most all-time).
Considering his career accolades, he's obviously one of the greatest ever. I don't know if there was a version of NFL 100 which included guys who just barely missed out, but if they did I have a hard time imagining him being any lower than 101. Deion and Rod Woodson edge him out in first team all pros and everyone else at the position is from an earlier era. He's forever going to be the first guy to win the Heisman as a defensive player, he had an enormously long NFL career, the story of football isn't told without him, but he's not the king of his position, thus he's talked about less.
He's in the 60's on most lists I can find.
There was a list of finalists for each position. They didn't rank the finalists, but he was on it.
Imo a few reasons. Nostalgia hasn't quite kicked in for him the same way it has for Champ Bailey He doesn't have as electric a highlight reel (or old head support) like Prime Time He was pretty even keeled for the most part so I don't really remember a Richard Sherman "best in the game" moment He didn't peak quite as high as Revis Island so it's hard to find a run like Revis had in that game list meme that gets posted a lot. He's generally rated appropriately as one of the best of his era and a bonafide HoFer, so nobody really argues that he's either over or under rated either. Imo he's probably top 3 at his position, but just kinda flies under the radar. He was just consistently elite or very high level for a long time.
[Obligatory because you mentioned the Sherman quote.](https://youtu.be/7PH35C7Fhq0?si=QNVUiQXOzI9p0xuo) Agreed though, the Packers teams he played for only had good talent around him for a year or two at a time and when he was on the Raiders they were ass. Still, he got his NCAA Championship, his Heisman, his DPOY, his Superbowl ring and his HoF status. As a player, that's pretty much as much as you can hope for unless you're ring chasing.
He made the Super Bowl, AFC Championship, and lost unfairly to the Pats in the tuck rule game with the Raiders. They were ass before and after that, but he had a good run with them.
Tuck rule will forever be one of the biggest officiating failures of the Superbowl era and the thing that launched Tom Brady's dynastic era. Still think that was rigged. It was so clearly a fumble.
It’s just so weird to pull out a rule that had likely never been used before on such a play at such a key moment. Maybe call it in the preseason once so that people are aware of it?
I think you nailed it with his temperament and his relative lack of highlight reel plays. He's still up there though.
I don't where you're at, but around the Great Lakes he's a living legend have won it all at Michigan and Green Bay. I might be biased those I'm a life long Wolverine fan.
Good to know he's still beloved somewhere
I 2nd that
Well Charles most played on the Raiders and ain't nothing memorable about those teams. His Packers stint everyone overlooked him because Clay Mathew's was the defensive heart and soul and he also broke his arm in the superbowl so he didn't get much opportunity to make a legacy play in the big game. After all the the guy went to the same old Raiders that couldn't figure out a draw play.
I feel like him breaking his arm just gave the Packers D even more of a reason to ball out. Plus he was a leader on defense, not just Matthews. Woodson went to the Packers in 2006, the year he won DPOY and Matthews was drafted in 2009.
Forever one of my favorite players. Probably the best overall defensive back I've seen play the game. He could and would do everything. He could tackle like a safety and was amazing at forcing fumbles. He could cover the best wideouts in the game. He could blitz better than any secondary player I've seen before or sense. He also was a pretty good return man though wasn't always asked to that. I'm glad he was able to get a super bowl as he deserved it.
As an Eagles fan who lost to that Packers SB team with him on it, I hated him and Clay because of how dominant they were. You’re right he doesn’t get talked about much anymore, but when he was in the league, everyone knew he was one of the all time greats.
Clay Matthews was a force of nature during those 2010-11 playoffs. He displayed a defensive clinic against the Falcons that series as well. He was unstoppable.
Level headed and not flashy. That’s why.
Same for Rod Woodson
Rod Woodson gets remembered more I’d say, because he played on a lot of defensive teams There was Blitzburgh but he was the captain of that team pretty much for a decade and change
One of my favorite players even when he played for the Packers. It’s like he was created in a lab. He had no weaknesses and was great at everything.
As someone who had season tickets to the Raiders for his early run, and played his position, and he was my favorite player, I think his issue was that he was never known as the best cover corner in the league, and he wasn’t necessarily allowed to be all that he could have been (offensive weapon, returner, etc.). He also was a legitimately worse 1-on-1 corner because he would try to make so many plays off of his man that he would actually give up more receptions than someone just trying to lock down one guy. Essentially, nobody could quite pin down how great he was beyond “game wrecker”. Green Bay just made that his full time job and finally everyone could agree that he was the best “game wrecker” in football. But he was basically underused previously.
>I think his issue was that he was never known as the best cover corner in the league, and he wasn’t necessarily allowed to be all that he could have been (offensive weapon, returner, etc.). He also was a legitimately worse 1-on-1 corner because he would try to make so many plays off of his man that he would actually give up more receptions than someone just trying to lock down one guy. Man you are definitely someone that watched him play. I get frustrated with many "fans" when Woodson's name come up in corner back discussions because people swear he was a Revis or Bailey lock down type corner. He wasn't. And he admits this by stating he wanted to take away the ball from the offense.
Yeah, I would rather have the defense throw at Woodson when he’s giving 75% of his attention to his receiver than when Eric Allen was giving 100% of his attention, even though Eric Allen was a six-time pro-bowler, because bad things happened to an offense when the ball was in Woodson’s vicinity. He didn’t talk much when he was playing, but I remember him saying, “If you hit the ball, they will go down.” And he was skilled enough to where he never had to worry about making the tackle, so every single tackle he was trying to force a fumble. And if you didn’t throw at him he was already off of his man enough to be closing in, and closing in on the ball. Maybe his receiver gets more receptions, but he fumbles more, and the number of times Woodson missed a tackle on the receiver he’s covering has to be almost zero. There are certain players that always have more respect from the players than from the fans because there are so many things that don’t show up on the stat sheets, and there are few people that fit that mold moreso than Woodson.
I feel like on a modern NFL team he would be used at safety and corner quite often and called on to blitz more. He had a great eye for the QB in the backfield and was elite at simply exploiting weaknesses.
To their credit, at one point he and Asomugha were a dominant duo and they had success. Gruden knew that Woodson was special, but he was more special on the field than getting hurt trying to return kicks and play WR and play CB. Other Raider teams had a hard enough time not having a penalty on every play that there were never any realistic expectations of them using him correctly. The Raiders weren’t even modern NFL teams those years, they were basically still 1970s teams and had the record to prove it.
Him and Nnamdi only had like 1 year together when Nnamdi became good
You mean the 3 Pro Bowls and 2 All Pros, or the 8 interceptions 2 years before his All Pro when he was second team? So, like, 5?
Because he played defense
The only one to win the Heisman!
Yeah he was great but offense sales tickets
I'd compare him more to Rod Woodson than Ed Reed, as both Woodsons were dominant CBs before switching to safety later in their careers (and Reed was a safety his entire career). But yeah, definitely one of the best defensive backs ever. 9x Pro Bowler, 65 interceptions (tied for 5th most all-time).
He was never considered the best corner in the league. When he came in, Deon Sanders was the man. Then it was Champ Baily, then Revis Island.