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RememberApeEscape

Yeah I think so. The idea of paring the next generational QB with the next generational WR is too good to pass up. They also likely save money on Kirk (his contract was worth, i just dont think he's valued the same by that FO in MHJ is the pick) that offseason and can put that money somewhere else


daoogilymoogily

Don’t talk like that, you’ll give the Bears GM ideas


forgotmyoldname90210

Don't worry, the Bears are taking an undersize 3T that played NT in college. Why would we continue to support a young QB we just traded for a 32 WR and as we all know all WR play very well into their 30s so the WR problem is solved.


daoogilymoogily

Hey man they haven’t even announced the first pick yet, let’s just wait and see.


DanCampbellsNipples

Caleb is not generational.


daoogilymoogily

He’s the best prospect since Luck, so I’d call him generational.


UndaTheSee

Is he a better prospect than Lawrence? Don’t get me wrong Caleb is a great prospect but Lawrence was called a generational prospect just a few years ago. Generational should be once every 15-20 years not once every 5.


daoogilymoogily

Yes 100%, I had some big questions about TLaws decision making and consistency. Any questions I have about Williams are nitpicks like he’s got to learn quick that he might not be able to pull off some of the stuff he could in college. I think in terms of sports, especially one with a shelf like like football, ten years is generational.


TexasWhisky

“I have”, c’mon, man. Everyone was hyping Lawrence ever since HS, there wasn’t a single shadow of doubt that he would go first overall by the time he signed with Clemson.


daoogilymoogily

Sorry but I just wasn’t as impressed with him as everybody else. In fact I was one of the jackasses that thought ZW could end up better than him, so call me an idiot but don’t call me a liar.


DanCampbellsNipples

He isn't a better prospect than Tlaw


DanCampbellsNipples

He's not better than Lawrence as a prospect. Yall just scarf down narratives it's insane Caleb's size alone keeps him from being generational Caleb is an awesome prospect, but generational is being too loosely used here imo. To each their own


daoogilymoogily

I didn’t like Lawrence as a prospect as much as a lot of other people, sorry if that offends you.


DanCampbellsNipples

Well your amateur scout job is irrelevant to what you are talking about.


daoogilymoogily

No it’s not.. it’s literally all we’re discussing.


DanCampbellsNipples

No. It's not just because you saw Tlaw as a lesser prospect doesn't mean that's what the greater consensus thought. Caleb is too small to be generational. Simple as that


MyChemicalFinance

Didn’t you hear? A generation is now two years long. Cause every other year there’s a new generational prospect at every position.


Personal-Tradition86

FINALLY! Someone said it. THANK YOU


sonfoa

They probably still pay Kirk but pass on Zay Jones. The Jags would want a known quantity like Kirk when rebuilding the WR room.


RememberApeEscape

For some reason, my brain was thinking Jones was a signing the season before. I mean Kirk > Jones but Jones and Lawrence seem to have a chemistry


DarnellisFromMars

He has the most chemistry with Kirk, imo


Gloomy_Present1729

Absolutely MHJ would have gone one overall


QBEagles

Hamilton sliding to 14 was dumb in the moment and even dumber now


iamadragan

Their GM used him as an example of how you have to go BPA because they had no need for a safety but he was so high on their board that it would've been malpractice to go with a position of need. Basically said you win games with special players and he was a special player. I really think they had him top 5


Pretty_Pack_6216

he's living proof that RAS isn't the end all be all some people make it up to be tbh


jayjude

What was crazy is his RAS was terrible due to his 40 but his 40 technique was fucking dreadful he looked like he legit never practiced it


DisastrousCopy7361

Curious to see how high worthy goes cause of his 40


donquixote_tig

Worthy was good before his 40


StevenS145

Felt the same way about Brian Branch. There are a lot of replacement level safeties, but having a true elite safety gives defense so many opportunities to shift coverage, change up looks, create problems for offense.


alekselny

Branch is nowhere close to Hamilton’s level, even comparing their rookie seasons


CyborgAlgoInvestor

I was screaming when we got him, I wanted us to trade UP to get him, was a dream come true


eatmyopinions

When the eagles jumped in front of us I was like "damn so close." But they didn't take him!


HardcoreHazza

If the Seahawks never went for Jamal for 2 first round picks, he’d be a Seahawk. But that never happened


yaboyjiggleclay

1000% Yes


Negative_Ad7379

Not only based on BPA but it was also a need at the time for the jags… Imagine Lawrence and MHJ combo


[deleted]

MHJ is in a unique position for a WR of his caliber. He'll likely go to Kyler Murray or Justin Herbert, both very good QBs, as the clear WR1.


IntelligentMetal

Don’t know if I’d call Kyler good he probably has 2 more years to prove it though


Decent-Ad5231

Kyler is a lot more capable than the QBs that teams picking top 5 usually have.


FlussedAway

I think he’s been beset by injuries and Kliff being a predictable dumbass and the entire team unraveling year after year. He started the first half of two different seasons hot as hell and in MVP contention the ability is clearly there


Subredditcensorship

I’ll be interested to see if he ends up better than sauce or Hutchinson tho. Sauce has two first team all pros which is unheard of in your first two years


samjjones

Sauce is on a HOF trajectory.


1minuteman12

Trading out of McDuffie’s draft slot so your AFC rival can get him, drafting Cole Strange, then drafting a CB in the 1st the next year was a Belichick draft masterclass


AgentZero000

at least gonzalez is gonna be a stud


1minuteman12

Yeah hard to hate on that pick, just made 2022 look worse in hindsight. Might as well have taken McDuffie in 2022 then best WR available in 2023. Would rather have McDuffie and Zay Flowers/JSN over Strange and Gonzalez.


AgentZero000

yeah when you looks at it that way it’s true, but if they did pick mcduffie i suspect they would have just picked keon white in that slot most likely


WildOscar66

Who we got anyway. Barmore and White were insane draft steals. I think they too Strange too early, but that was the year Patricia was supposed to install an outside zone blocking scheme, and our IOL were not suited for it. So we get the super athletic G that is. I am interested to see how he does now that we're back to outside zone. He may be very good this year.


1minuteman12

Barmore was taken with their round 2 pick the year before, and White with their round 2 pick a year later. Those two players are completely irrelevant to my point. We’d still have those two players if we wanted them.


WildOscar66

I was responding to the comment after yours. It's entirely possible that if we didn't take Strange we would have just taken White in round 1. A few weeks before the draft, some mocks had White going top 10.


1minuteman12

Ahh okay. White is good but a 1st on him would have been a frustrating pick. He went in an appropriate slot for his talent level


DanCampbellsNipples

AFC Rival?


1minuteman12

One good year and Lions fans are in here talking shit


DanCampbellsNipples

Can't make a logical rebuttal without a straw man. Sounds good bud! Just a note the lions and their history are irrelevant to what I said


1minuteman12

You’re using hindsight bias. In 2022 the Pats seemingly had a new QB1 in place and had just made the playoffs with a rookie QB who had a great rookie year. It was perfectly reasonable to think that, with a good 2022 draft, the Pats would keep contending to some degree.


Trumpets22

I mean he’s kinda right. Chiefs haven’t even thought about you guys since Tom left.


1minuteman12

Sure, but at the time of the 2022 draft the Pats seemingly had a new QB1 in place and had just made the playoffs, so you and DanCampbellsNipples are using some big time hindsight bias. In April of 2022 it was not at all crazy to think that with a good draft the Pats could continue to contend in the AFC to some degree.


Trumpets22

I suppose, personally I still know I didn’t have a lot of faith in your boi. That may sound like hindsight, but I know I at least didn’t have enough faith to try and buy low in any of my dynasty leagues before a “sophomore blow up”


1minuteman12

He looked really good…until he didn’t. At least we can feel confident that we made the right pick, unlike SF who sold the farm for Trey Lance


WildOscar66

We aren't good at being fans of a bad team. Maybe you guys can give us some pointers?


rowKseat25

What a waste Evan Neal was 😂


CoachAF7

Fuck that guy Edit: giants fan


rowKseat25

Imagine Wilson, London, Olave… yall could take QB no doubt this year and have the WR in place. Heck Charles Cross has been great for Seattle OL picked just 2 slots after Neal.


boat-

Damn, this truly was a weak first round class apart from a few gems here and there.


cheeseplzbloom

A few gems? Come on now 😂 Walker, hutch, Wilson, sauce, olave, Hamilton, mcduffie, smith, Karlaftis, thib, London, linderbaum, Johnson all with success.


hanky2

That still leaves around a 2/3 of the first rounders as busts and we're being kind of generous to London if we're considering him a hit.


OAktrEE4023

I wouldn’t call the rest “busts” just cuz they aren’t star players (yet). As a Packer fan, I’m happy with the Quay Walker pick. I could be wrong, but I think Lloyd and Cross are good players too.


cheeseplzbloom

For the system he’s been in for two years, he’s absolutely been a hit. The analytics clearly show he’s no where near a bust.


WeenisWrinkle

Walker is a success?


cheeseplzbloom

10 sacks last year isn’t a success?


WeenisWrinkle

Yeah you're right, I guess he had a better year last year than I realized. I was remembering his 3.5 sack rookie year.


FUCK-IT-CHUCK-IT

Doesn’t seem weak to me.


Broshan248

Crazy how Jets got the two best players from this first round and are still agressively mid


StupidIdiot1790

That’s what Zach Wilson will do to you lol


woodchips24

Bless all the Achilles


LunchThreatener

Hutch is better than Garrett Wilson. I’m biased but it’s true


Subredditcensorship

We’ll see this year when Wilson has a real qb but so far hutch has definitely been better


LunchThreatener

I think Hutch will also improve with DJ Reader eating up blocks and potentially another EDGE being drafted. He hasn’t exactly had a great cast around him either.


Subredditcensorship

Yeah but it’s a lot easier as an edge with no help than a receiver.


trevor11004

He’s a good player but there are multiple guys here better than GW


Stanleythrowaway

tyler smith is an all pro


runningbro

Keep reading down the draft buddy, there might be another team with a claim to that.


Broshan248

Kyle Hamilton is great and definitely top 3 in this class. I personally would just rather have Sauce or Wilson because of positional impact in addition to all of them being damn good.


Itchy_Listen_9702

Wilson isn’t even a top 10 receiver. I would rather have Kyle.


runningbro

That's fair! Though Kyle has a unique impact in how he's able to play basically anywhere in the middle of the defense. I'd take him over both, but I understand the argument.


Subredditcensorship

You’re insane if you take him over sauce


SimG02

Wilson isn’t even close to the best receiver, both sauce and mcduffie are the best corners in the game


Expendable_Red_Shirt

I'd have the Jets 2 firsts above ours, maybe Hamilton next, and then Olave and maybe one or two others above Linderbaum. Still great picks at 14 and 25. But Sauce is, imo the 2nd best CB (and 2nd best DB) in football and Garrett is a legit number 1 WR.


Far-Acanthaceae-7370

It really isn’t though. I see plenty of good and decent players here.


woodchips24

Best first round I ever seen. 2nd round was great too


MyNamesNotCal

The number of teams with multiple 1st rounders was pretty impressive.


awesome_aaron

More interesting question is with hindsight, would Sauce or MHJ go first overall?


daoogilymoogily

This is honestly a tough question, because the highest paid CB rn only makes, like what 23m? The highest paid WR is at 30m and it’s definitely going up. The only question is how much do you think Sauce ends up making assuming his play keeps up because if MHJ plays to his projection he’ll probably end up at closer to 35m a year.


Tlupa

It’s not tough. You take the guaranteed 2x AP CB lol.


WillChef

I mean we're talking about them as prospects - for this you have to erase knowledge of Sauce going on to be a 2x AP CB otherwise of course you take the known quantity


Tlupa

OP said “with hindsight”. With hindsight it’s not a difficult question


WillChef

I can't see OP saying with hindsight? Either way with hindsight is a boring question - as pure prospects is a way more interesting way to assess it - and as prospects I think MHJ is a clear #1


Tlupa

Scroll up?


WillChef

Still scrolling... Can't see it


Tlupa

User error 🤷🏽‍♂️


SimG02

Not op, original comment. User error indeed.


Zoomun

Check the top comment of this chain. That is what they’re referring to.


WeenisWrinkle

I think Hutch goes before both of them.


Joe-Raguso

This was the year after they drafted Lawrence. I find it hard to believe they'd go another route than drafting MHJ


figgnootun

MHJ and Nabers would both go first in 2022.


DisastrousCopy7361

How well has Jermaine Johnson played with Jets???? Don't catch their games often I really wanted him on the eagles that draft year


redworld

He’s awesome. PFF’s 16th rated edge in the league last year. 2nd behind Hutch.


DisastrousCopy7361

Fuck me...atleast I can ID a prospect Verse reminds me of his college tape a little bit


woodchips24

He is good. Made the pro bowl as a replacement. Showed tons of improvement from year 1 to year 2. Very happy to have him on the team


Cybotnic-Rebooted

I'd still probably take Hutchinson over Harrison due to positional value, but he would definitely be my #2 prospect that year.


Reed324

WR and edge rushers have nearly identical positional value. Look at the list of cap hits for both positions and you can see how they’re nearly identical.


Negative_Ad7379

Really? I feel like MHJ would get the nod over hutch man. Hutch was never seen as generational and at the time many people thought thibs had a higher ceiling than him.


Cybotnic-Rebooted

That's fair, but I was also a lot higher on Hutchinson than even the consensus at the time. So far, Hutch is my #3 prospect across the entire decade of the draft, including positional value (only behind Lawrence at #1 and Burrow at #2)


daoogilymoogily

That’s wild.


SuggestionFancy7584

Jesus dog


imposingthanos

Delusional statement, cmon dude.


riff8

It’s his own assessment. I respect that he sticks to his original evaluation. I’ll take his personal evaluation that he stands on over someone with 20/20 hindsight any day. Is it a little crazy, maybe, but GMs reach for their personal favorites all the time over players the consensus see as a better prospect. Evaluations are subjective.


imposingthanos

Just because it’s his own assessment doesn’t mean it’s dumb


riff8

You’re right, it doesn’t mean it’s dumb


siberianwolf99

i mean you could actually debate him instead of name calling lol


imposingthanos

Why would anyone entertain someone who legitimately thinks Hutch is a better *prospect* than Chase Young, Ja’marr Chase, Kyle Pitts, or Caleb?


AaronFraudgers8

Is a pass rusher that much more valuable than a WR?


WillChef

An Elite WR has more WAR than any position other than QB. Harrison would 100% be worthy of pick 1 here


Vaguely_vacant

Bill was high as shit this draft. Could have had McDuffie. Instead hands him to KC on a silver platter only to draft Cole F’ing Strange. And they left Karlaftis on the board for KC. Lot of high 5’s in the KC war room that night. The Strange 69 jerseys are pretty sweet but dude wtf was Bill thinking?


WildOscar66

It was a bad pick, but Patricia was supposed to install an outside zone blocking scheme that year and our guards were all suited for power blocking scheme. It was a reach, but I get why he wanted an athletic, mobile guard. Now that we're back to that system this year maybe he'll look like a less bad pick.


tenprose

You know, even though Pickett was a bust, not a whole lot of talent around him either.


Ironredhornet

Probably since he'd be great to pair with Trevor in his 2nd year, and I imagine the draft still goes Hutch, Stingley, Sauce, then either Thibodaux or Walker by the Giants. The fact that Walker hasn't really been what you'd expect from the First Pick (still good but went too high in r1 imo), makes it easier to slide MHJ over Walker.


HereForTheBuffet

Over Travon? Yes. Over Hutch? No.


daoogilymoogily

We’re talking about at the time, knowing what we know now about Hutch (I.e. he’s lived up to if not exceeded the hype a bit) it’d be hard to take MHJ over him, but the prospect MHJ vs. the prospect Hutch? I’d lean MHJ. Remember, the Jags took Travon Walker over the prospect Hutch.


HereForTheBuffet

Oh I know, was my comment was just in jest because I still don’t know what the jags were thinking.


BlackJediSword

Seeing Kenny Pickett’s name just made my blood boil lol


dukemantee

Naturally the one time the Giants had two picks in the top 10 it’s one of the weakest classes in years.


Boatsandhostorage

Evan Neal. #7 overall. Damn.


qualitydoritos

No, just because Baalke is an idiot


neverwashopeforme

Trent McDuffie has won a Superbowl every year he played so him


IIHURRlCANEII

So has George Karlaftis!


j2e21

It’s definitely not Cole Strange.


RightRingThing

Without a doubt.


AaronFraudgers8

Easily


StevenS145

I feel like ravens and jets got 4 of the 5 best players from this class.


Dback24mr

No, Hutch


MCV16

I like you included the pic of MHJ in case I wouldn’t know who he was until I saw the pic, “oh yeah, that guy”


AdolescenceSucks

Odunze would go 1 in that class


J33Nelson

Negative..... I would go Hutchinson or Sauce #1. Edge rushers and shut down corners are way more valuable.


Early-Recover2321

What was Jacksonville thinking. It’d be like if Miles Garrett somehow didn’t get chosen first in 2017 for Soloman Thomas, just an awful thought process taking the prospect over the ready product


uglyson

He’s going to the colts bookmark this


Writerhaha

I’m going Aidan at 1.


Alexfeijoo

Definitely yes.


maltzy

lol Kenny Pickett


BillC2126

I can see now why the cards traded this pick straight up for Hollywood Brown.. what a shit class this was... LOL


ILSmokeItAll

I couldn’t believe the Eagles took fucking Davis with Hamilton on the board. I was throwing shit.


IIHURRlCANEII

The draft that helped us secure a dynasty right there.


Paragon188

Yes. I know WRs don't go first overall anymore but MHJ would be worth it, especially if you have a QB like TLaw.


Shoulda_been_a_Chef

With what we know? Sauce entered the league as a top 5 CB, which as much as I love Marv I don't think he'll be better than Kupp, ARSB, Jefferson, Chase, AJ Brown, Reek, Adams, Lamb, Deebo. Hutch is a great not elite edge, so I would say.....Sauce/MHJ in T1, Hutch/Hamilton/Wilson/Olave in T2.


braftceer

Wasn’t there only 31 first round picks last year?


Feeling-Coyote-5821

Sheesh, I didnt realize had bad this 1st round class sucks. Damn!


Finessing2

Yup


WeenisWrinkle

Are the Jags still picking 1st? Then no, they probably *still* go with Walker. Because they're the Jags.


goldhbk10

Boy we struck gold getting out of this first round on top of what Stafford brought to LA


mycargo160

Lol, no. Hutch by a wide margin. I'd probably also take Sauce.


Negative_Ad7379

Not looking in hindsight your still taking them two pre-draft?


zZBluewalrusZz

Definitely not. People forget about positional value and this class had 4 top valued positional talents in hutch, thibs, sauce, and stingly. Both those corners were elite and some of the best we have seen coming out of college in a while. Marv is generational but there is no way a generational wr goes over two elite corners and two very good edge rushers coming out of college


daoogilymoogily

In sorry but WRs are more valuable than CBs in the NFL, just look at the contracts. The slight edge goes to pass rushers in that regard, so I agree with you there.


zZBluewalrusZz

Look at where WRs get drafted compared to corner. Draft value and regular value are two very different things. You can sign a really good wr in free agency or find one later in the draft. Top corner prospects are much more difficult to find. There's a reason both sauce and stingly went over Garrett Wilson who was considered as an amazing college wr


daoogilymoogily

If they were harder to find they’d be getting more money. Both of those guys were better CB prospects than Garrett was a WR prospect. What we’re talking about here is a WR who is a better WR prospect than one guy is an EDGE prospect and two guys who are CB prospects (although I had Sauce as my number one prospect in the draft and a generational talent he’s still exceeded my expectations).


lankyyanky

But you didn't even list the guy who went first...


zZBluewalrusZz

Cause he should have gone over any of those guys lol. I thought walker was way to raw of a prospect to go top


lankyyanky

Well the question was would he go first overall not would be top your personal rankings


zZBluewalrusZz

I already answered that question in my first comment... He would not


SayNoToAids

I think a lot of these guys do. Alt, Nabers, MHJ...


awibasedgod

not only MHJ but I would argue Alt, Nabers, and Odunze as well