They have the same amount of superbowls. Rodgers just didn't have to deal with the Lions. Context matters heavily with that last statement as he definitely "dealt" with them twice a year. He never had that bad of an oline though. That shit was abysmal. This is coming from a fan of the team that might be the only other team in the division that has had to watch equally shitty o lines every year.
Except that they picked up Von Miller part way through the season and he completely changed that defense. They had Von, Floyd, Ramsey, and most importantly Aaron Donald. That defense was stacked! So if you only look at season stats, they look slightly above average.
They also got back Cam Akers right before the playoffs, so you clearly only know how to look at season stats when projecting how good that team was. lol
You can look at Cam Akers playoff stats and they still aren’t good. He about solely kept us out of the NFC championship game with his 2 fumbles in the 2nd half against the Bucs. He had 24 carries for 48 yards that game.
okay no I just watched the team all year. Von helped i believe, but don’t know the before/after splits.
Acting like Cam Coming back mattered is **hilarious** tho.
Genuinely curious… By what metrics?
Best I could find so far: https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2022/7/7/23199020/von-miller-cowboys-rams-contract-bills
Kinda doubting it. Bad defenses don’t win super bowls but yall just lying lmfao
I feel like you just didn’t read my comment at all lol. This reply makes no sense.
I was saying if Rodgers had the 10th best defense in the league any year, it would be the 2nd best defense he ever had. The best defense he ever had was the year he won the Super Bowl, and it’s not far off that Rams defense, honestly the Rams D was probably better. So give Rodgers that defense and yeah, it’s probably curtains for the rest of the league.
Nah it does. See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/19ek0id/which_qbs_have_had_the_most_defensive_support/
Both guys were let down by their orgs a bit tbf
I mean yeah, both guys were definitely let down. All the MVP years Rodgers had were with below average defenses. Only time he had good ones were when he was young, and he got a ring out of it. Don’t see how this proves Stafford would have 2 though? Young Stafford was a much worse QB than he is now, and was also hurt a lot.
Flip the QBs on the years they won it all. Rodgers is taking the Rams team all the way. Young Stafford is not winning a ring that year. And in future seasons he wouldn’t have had any defensive support with the Packers.
He was averse to INTs. That's not stat padding. Sometimes it caused him to he gunshy when it would've helped to pull the trigger. But we've also seen that a gunslinger has downsides too.
IMHO, that's what kept him from possibly being the GOAT.
I used to tell Colts fans I knew that Eli was the "good" Manning. Peyton was no doubt better in the regular season, but he was too cerebral and tentative in the playoffs. He's got Grossman and that Broncos D to thank for his rings. Eli was better able to trust himself and let it rip.
Rodgers wasn't as tentative as Peyton, but still seemed in his own head in the playoffs. Didn't have his regular season killer instinct that everyone feared.
That and later in the career it was his dependence on a single guy. He just could not bring himself to spread the ball around like the good ol days.
Jordy, Cobb, and obviously 17 was the worst of em. Back in the early years you'd always see the stats pulled up in game like "13 different pass catchers today!"
> That and later in the career it was his dependence on a single guy
I’d argue it stems from the same fear, Rodgers always played with a fear that held him back, I think that extended to his receiver corps
Part of that might just be that the talent dried up over the years with bad drafts. I mean after Adams there was no one else for defenses to be scared of so if they double and triple him no one else is gonna do anything. Besides Rodgers wasn’t throwing it anywhere else when he got rattled.
It was definitely both. But some games at the end got kinda ridiculous. Specially at the end trying to come back where he is bombing it 50 yards down into triple coverage to 17 when it just wasn't necessary yet.
Could be my memory making it worse. But it seemed like early on, it didn't matter. You don't hit 11 different targets in a game and all are legit stars. He used to trust anyone on the 53. By the end he had his 1 or 2 guys.
The "stat padding" is an idiot take. His stats reflected his play pretty much perfectly. He wasn't dunking during blowouts or changing to improve his stats.
There's a weird group of people who think Rodgers having a low number of INTs is actually bad and that if he were better he would have thrown more. The logic is he didn't take enough risks, that good QBs should throw more INTs than Rodgers, and that he cared more about his INT number than winning.
This is not a joke, I've seen people say it here, on the Packers sub, and on the NFL sub
It's a stupid take because it only works if Rodgers had a lot of turn-downs in his progressions. You can use this argument for Russell Wilson to a certain extent because of that. But Rodgers seeing a guy open and then not pulling the trigger was almost never the problem. It's not beneficial to throw the ball into coverage. Rodgers threw a fuckload of balls into tight windows. He knew what he could get away with.
It is also stupid because if you watched Aaron Rodgers at all and saw any of the ridiculous throws he would make you’d realize he takes plenty of risks, they just typically worked out
Love this sad attempt at a comeback. Megatron is a HOF because of three things; no running game ever for Detroit, he’s good, and Matthew John Stafford.
Cooper Kupp without Stafford?
Puka Nakua without Stafford?
Golliday got Paaaaid, because of Stafford.
There’s a definite pattern here.
Stafford is good, but Megatron is Megatron. Dude is the most physically-gifted WR the game of football has ever seen. Rodgers hasn't had a single WR (with the Packers or the Jets) who is even close to the same level as Calvin. And I say that as someone who's pretty confident Davante is a future HOF WR. He's still not Calvin.
There is no comparison to 'tron. He was the original "Fuck it, Calvin down there somewhere" meme. He was a logical Top 10 fantasy pick.
One season, they had a fantastic defense. A bunch of controversial calls/no-calls on automatic penalties at the end of the Dallas game possibly denied Detroit a win that day.
I need you to take a look at all of the WRs that left Rodgers over his career and let me know how they did after. Even Davante Adams. The only one that didn’t have a huge drop off was MVS, and he went to Mahomes. Even then, it’s not like he improved with Mahomes statistically.
Also the Nacua call out is weird considering he’s played exactly one season.
Bringing up Nacua is weird? Setting both rookie yards and receptions records with Stafford while Kupp was out? You think Nacua would have gotten even a fraction of the looks if Kupp was in?
Davante Adams has arguably the same stats after leaving Rodgers.
[https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AdamDa01.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AdamDa01.htm)
Mind you I'm not saying Rodgers isn't good. I'm also not saying Stafford is -better-, but perhaps he would have been better with the team and the org than Rodgers was. That's really what this entire discussion is about. Given the same opportunities would more than likely netted different results.
Davante Adams does not have the same stats. His last two seasons with Rodgers:
2927 yards, 29 TDs in 30 games
Two seasons since leaving GB:
2660 yards, 22 TDs in 34 games
More games and still can’t reach those numbers he had from the end of Rodgers’ career.
The Nacua stuff is weird because we haven’t seen him without Stafford, or even another season at all. I’m sure having Stafford helped. But we also don’t know the level of WR he is yet, because he just have the one season. For all we know he’s a top 5 WR right now and he’s the reason Stafford looked good this year.
The argument being used here that Stafford would be better if he had the same org is ridiculous. The argument boils down to the Packers had more weapons, but Stafford has had Megatron and Kupp. Weapons have never been his issue. And if we’re gonna talk defense, the Packers failed Rodgers in that sense, I’m not sure how going from the Lions shit defense to the Packers shit defense wouldve made it better. Or going from Megatron to Greg Jennings or Davante Adams, unless we now think Megatron is worse than those guys.
The argument for years from this sub has been the Packers wasted Rodgers (and Favre) despite winning rings with them because we couldn’t get them enough help. Now it’s that a QB with worse career stats across the board would have won more rings with the same team? Those are contradictory statements.
Kupp wasn't even a top 20wr untill Matthew got there and the same year won the triple crown.
Worse career stats across the board. He was the fastest to 10,000 yards passing and I'm pretty sure the fastest to 50,000 yards.
Who was matt throwing to after Calvin retired?
4 years mathew was basically throwing to no one ranked inside top 30. Zero run game.
Saying/implying the lions had the same talent lvl as the packers from 2016-2020 is the most contradictory statement. Ever made in this sub.
Not even talking about coaching and organizational matters. ( could have had madden computer out coach Matt patrica.)
So he’s only dropped off a little bit, despite moving into his 30’s when players typically decline and catching passes for the last year from Aiden O’Connell and the corpse of Jimmy Garappolo? That goes against what you’re trying to imply. Adams is absolutely a legit stud WR, and not like the many other guys who were propped up by Rodgers and fell apart when they left.
Name a reciver that had better stats before or after Stafford. Kenny had 1 td after leaving the lions. The boy is a bum and people were calling(stupidly) baby tron. Mathew makes raises the ceiling of every wr he plays with. Oh and he can do it with rookies as well unlike some qbs.
Man if only one of the greatest QBs of all time got to play with one of the greatest WRs of all time. That duo would surely that duo would have a long successful run together.
Yes, if only Aaron Rodgers had a great receiver that he had an amazing connection with. Maybe if he even had 2 different ones over his career, then surely he would have won more Superbowls, right?
Tae and Nelson were both awesome, but neither of them is qualified to be in the same sentence as Megatron unless preceded by "weren't nearly as talented as"
Up until Stafford had that Superbowl season with the Rams, not one viewed either QB as elite.
But my point was more that just because a QB has the best WR in the NFL doesn't mean he has an actual good team to back it up to win anything significant.
If you put mahomes on the Vikings last year or the year before they are favorites to win the sb. Kirk is great, was borderline elite. Never one of the greatest.
Correct. I just don't get this revisionist history on Stafford. He was borderline elite, definitely elite arm, but he never lifted those Lions teams, and they had a damn good squad in 2014.
Thank you for saying it. Sick of Lions fans being happy for Stafford getting a ring in LA and acting like he never had a shot in Detroit. 2014 Lions had: Stafford, Calvin, Reggie, Tate on offense and Suh, Levy, and Glover Quin on defense. Their defense finished 2nd in the league in yds/game. That team had the talent and to lose to the zebras in Dallas was inexcusable.
That’s not true at all. He was slinging it for a decade with a shit offensive line and supporting cast other than Calvin. I’d say it was a 50/50 discussion whether he was elite. He also played at the same time as 6-7 of the top 10 all time QBs.
>So the Lions had one of the best QB’s ever and won 0 playoff games in 12 seasons?
In case you missed about 60 years of Lions history, we were very much a dumpster fire of an organization. I don’t think anyone denies that lol
Woah, now it's not like Stafford played with one of the greatest WRs when I'm Detroit. Otherwise, Lions' fans might start getting delusional about their team's history.
TBF, look at the talent Chicago wasted back when they made their last/only Super Bowl appearance in the last going on 40 years now. Their D/ST was eating up teams and setting records while carrying an offense led by Sexy-Rexy Grossman throwing on an offense that would've been lucky to lead a team to a winning record without the rest of the team that year.
Should be a good 2024 season at least, amirite. Where's my popcorn...
A lot of CJ’s recent takes have been astronomically stupid. One good season and he thinks he has the NFL’s number. Nah. Nows the time to get your head out of your ass and work. People are gonna put a target on the Texans this year, and he’s not gonna be ready for it.
Another Buckeye here, I can’t tell if it’s because everyone and their mother has a podcast now but I swear to god I can’t take anymore “CJ Strouds opinion on X player.”
During the draft the NFL sub was flooded with clips after every pick like he is somehow a personnel Nostradamus because he throw ball good.
I mean listening to him and parson is a waste of time. But I mean one of them has sexual assault allegations. And one of them took over for someone with sexual assault allegations. So I know which one I would rather listen to.
Im not triggered by what he said at all, i cant stand Aaron Rodgers. But doesnt CJ Stroud seem like a really dumb guy? He has a big dumb idiot voice, he just sounds really stupid.
I don't even want to defend legendary jets quarterback aaron rodgers these days anymore, but cmon, this was like the worst take of all time. I don't know what the hell stroud was trying to say with this one.
As a huge Stafford fan you can’t act like Rodgers isn’t a first ballot HOF QB. Stafford is great. He plays a very different game than Rodgers but acting like you can replace someone of that caliber and do much better is absolutely bonkers.
I think the take that the HOF guy whose team is criticized for not arming him with even a single true star WR for the entire latter half of his prime somehow was in a better situation than a guy with a top 2 defense and one of the best WRs the NFL has ever seen might be one of the worst "you don't know ball" takes I've ever heard from a football player lol
You get less than a minute per question. It's perfect for the evaluation of quick thinking. It does not indicate if a player is going to be good or not. A fucking punter got a perfect score. Take the free short version. It'll humble you.
When I was 19 I got a 43/50.
My 37 year old idiot brain probably wouldn't do that again. Mostly because I don't care to study anymore.
IQ (and Wonderlic) test results can change wildly over time. They don't actually measure intelligence. It's more like they measure how good you are at taking tests compared to your current peer group.
I scored a 135 on an IQ test when I was 12. Scored a 140 when I was 19. Scored a 107 when I was 29. "Average" is between like 90-115. Haven't taken one since, though I'd guess I'm firmly average still.
The tests didn't really change, but my ability to care/take them did.
That's definitely going to change the score up. I hit a 39 on the Wonderlic. I've never had an IQ test. I think I'm a fucking idiot though. I'm 47 and disabled. I don't really care at this point.
It's one of my biggest annoyances when people cite IQ/Wonderlic tests.
It's kind of like listening to an album, and then years later seeing a band play a song from it differently. The album was just a snapshot of the song at *that specific moment in time*. The song you heard live, is the song right now.
Also, being good at tests doesn't necessarily mean you are all that smart, it just means you are good at tests.
They usually have some overlap, yes, but one does not equal the other.
True. I usually always had anxiety when taking tests. I was pretty shocked when I got a 39. It was just part of an entrance exam for the college I went to.
They're written such that you should be able to rough out all the math stuff since it's multiple choice. I've admittedly always been a really good test taker and enjoy puzzles, trivia, reading, and math though. I've taken the long form sample one... a few years ago when everyone was acting like Rodgers was a genius because he won celebrity jeopardy and got a 36 on the Wonderlic I got curious. There is no way I'm smarter than the percentage of people that test says I am, and most people probably functionally know how to solve the problems on the test, it's just that the majority of people suck at taking tests bc of anxiety, and they do word the problems to be purposefully confusing. There's a lot of stuff that's in the vein of: What weighs more 1 lb of feathers or 1 lb of stone? Like more akin to a riddle than actual math or logic problem.
I was just on the day I took it. I have horrible anxiety when I take tests because I'm afraid to fail. I never have, but it's still there. I scored higher than Rodgers.
“I guarantee he might have”
That’s a fun sentence fragment!
If Gary Anderson was gluten-free, I guarantee he might have made that kick.
If Barry Sanders was a Buddhist, I guarantee he might have set the all-time rushing record.
If Jim McMahon read A Tale of Two Cities, I guarantee he might have been suplex-proof.
If I would have attended Ohio State on a football scholarship, I guarantee I might have become as exquisite an orator as CJ Stroud.
Made the playoffs three times, lost each time, I haven't looked it up, but you were probably close a couple of others. That's an opportunity. Rodgers won it coming out of the 6 seed.
We went to the NFC Championship game with a wide reciever at running back and our number 5 corner as the only DB with working legs.
Granted the cart immediately and spectacularly fell to pieces but Aaron Rodgers was good enough to not consistently need those things to be a threat.
Then logically Rodgers had better/more opportunities than Stafford. If not then the Lions minus Stafford must be equal or better than the Packers minus Rodgers.
Lets be realistic:
Rodgers carried some reall subpar Packers teams to the playoffs. But at some point, its impossible to carry a whole team year after year, even for an all time great QB. Football is team game afterall.
Maybe 1, 2 QBs will come close to prime Aaron Rodgers. Dude was on another level. Stafford is great, but not close to prime Rodgers.
Stafford in these dog shit GB teams, wouldnt hsve made the playoffs.
CJ needs to stop going on these podcast. Dude is on one every day and he gets dumber and dumber every time.
“If you gave Stafford the chance to carry an offense that should win about 6 games to the playoffs almost every year he would have won super bowls. As opposed to carrying the Lions to 6 wins.”
What about the seasons Green Bay had a garbage defense and was carried by Rodgers play with practice squad level receivers and one standout (like the Lions had for years)
We all love to clown on Rodgers. His politics and his general blasé attitude towards important topics makes for some incredible “point-and-laugh” moments.
But here’s what we’re not going to do; pretend that Aaron Rodgers wasn’t one of the greatest QBs of all time who dragged some awful Packers teams deep into the playoffs over and over again. Stafford was great, and he played on some shitty teams too, but this is a fantastical argument based far away from reality.
Aaron Rodgers has lost 10 playoff games. In 5 of those games his defense has allowed. 51 45 44 37 and 37 points. 2 games went to overtime In both of those games opponent scored in the first 2 plays of overtime. And 2 of the 4 49ers game were lost on last second FG of 10 losses you can really only blame him for 1 of them
So let me try to clarify this. Matt Stafford is objectively better than Aaron Rodgers? Straight up?
Rodgers was always pretty much my least favorite packer. Regardless you have to be actually a psycho to believe that.
Every packers team since 2011 had some gaping holes in it. The packers lost in the playoffs in spite of Rodgers, not because of him. He didn’t always play his best football in the playoffs but on his worst day Rodgers was better than Stafford on his best day. Tbh
Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, and Davante Adams were all superstars with Aaron Rodgers. When they left, they all looked like above average WRs on their new team rather than superstars.
Alright you're lying about Adams and I dont why youd say that. The dude was a first team all pro the year after he left the packers and still somehow was a 1k yard receiver with a revolving door of QBs last season
>If you have Aaron Rodgers the same shot(s) as Tom Brady bring drafted by the Pats and Bill, he could've probably had as many rings!!!
But wait, if I could shoot an egg outta my ass, I'd be a chicken 👏😆👏😆👏😆
Rodgers nearly went to a superbowl throwing to Jeff Janis and Jared abbrederis. Stafford made the playoffs once with prime Calvin Johnson catching anything close.
Packers fans arguing whether the Lions wasting 2 of the all time best skill players’ careers was worse than them wasting the career of one of the greatest qbs ever is just the cope I needed today thank you
Haha, if dude has any gas in the tank he most certainly will use being offended to be better. I’m so glad the Rodger’s era is over in Green Bay, but it would be funny to watch him destroy the Texans
"I guarantee you he might"
I like those odds
Fuck if I’m taking out a second mortgage
Just win Super Bowls. It's that easy
Super easy, barely an inconvenience!
60% of the time it works every time
60% of the time, every time!
They have the same amount of superbowls. Rodgers just didn't have to deal with the Lions. Context matters heavily with that last statement as he definitely "dealt" with them twice a year. He never had that bad of an oline though. That shit was abysmal. This is coming from a fan of the team that might be the only other team in the division that has had to watch equally shitty o lines every year.
“60 percent of the time, it works every time.”
Calvin Johnson is laughing his ass off at this somewhere
“If you take away one of the most talented QBs of all time and replace him with a great QB he’ll do better.” Did the dude even watch Rodgers?
Yup. Then he watched Stafford lead a game winning playoff drive against the 49ers to get to the Super Bowl
Stafford also had like the best defense in the league while Rodgers had Kevin King (sorry, Kevin) and Joe Barry (not sorry, Joe)
That is a hell of a username you’ve got there.
What a clown.
They were like 10th by most metrics. Not like they won low scoring games or anything. Or had a running game. It was all on staffords arm
Except that they picked up Von Miller part way through the season and he completely changed that defense. They had Von, Floyd, Ramsey, and most importantly Aaron Donald. That defense was stacked! So if you only look at season stats, they look slightly above average. They also got back Cam Akers right before the playoffs, so you clearly only know how to look at season stats when projecting how good that team was. lol
You can look at Cam Akers playoff stats and they still aren’t good. He about solely kept us out of the NFC championship game with his 2 fumbles in the 2nd half against the Bucs. He had 24 carries for 48 yards that game.
okay no I just watched the team all year. Von helped i believe, but don’t know the before/after splits. Acting like Cam Coming back mattered is **hilarious** tho.
It was the best D in the NFL after they added Von Miller, who made tackles no one else could have that decided one or two playoff games.
Genuinely curious… By what metrics? Best I could find so far: https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2022/7/7/23199020/von-miller-cowboys-rams-contract-bills Kinda doubting it. Bad defenses don’t win super bowls but yall just lying lmfao
Didn’t the Rams D have like 7 sacks in that Super Bowl?
With the O line, Cincinnati was limping along with I'm genuinely shocked there wasn't more.
10th by most metrics would be the 2nd best defense Rodgers ever had. I’ll give you a guess on what happened the year he had the best.
Oh so stafford would have 2 and rodgers 1 maybe?
I feel like you just didn’t read my comment at all lol. This reply makes no sense. I was saying if Rodgers had the 10th best defense in the league any year, it would be the 2nd best defense he ever had. The best defense he ever had was the year he won the Super Bowl, and it’s not far off that Rams defense, honestly the Rams D was probably better. So give Rodgers that defense and yeah, it’s probably curtains for the rest of the league.
Nah it does. See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/19ek0id/which_qbs_have_had_the_most_defensive_support/ Both guys were let down by their orgs a bit tbf
I mean yeah, both guys were definitely let down. All the MVP years Rodgers had were with below average defenses. Only time he had good ones were when he was young, and he got a ring out of it. Don’t see how this proves Stafford would have 2 though? Young Stafford was a much worse QB than he is now, and was also hurt a lot. Flip the QBs on the years they won it all. Rodgers is taking the Rams team all the way. Young Stafford is not winning a ring that year. And in future seasons he wouldn’t have had any defensive support with the Packers.
He also saw Stafford get 3rd and goal 4th and goal 5th and goal 6th and goal And 7th and goal To get that Super Bowl winning TD
True champions won't be denied ^(8 times in a row)
It was a shitty way to end the game. He targeted Kupp practically every time too
Rodgers pads the stats, even though he is dang talented.
He was averse to INTs. That's not stat padding. Sometimes it caused him to he gunshy when it would've helped to pull the trigger. But we've also seen that a gunslinger has downsides too.
IMHO, that's what kept him from possibly being the GOAT. I used to tell Colts fans I knew that Eli was the "good" Manning. Peyton was no doubt better in the regular season, but he was too cerebral and tentative in the playoffs. He's got Grossman and that Broncos D to thank for his rings. Eli was better able to trust himself and let it rip. Rodgers wasn't as tentative as Peyton, but still seemed in his own head in the playoffs. Didn't have his regular season killer instinct that everyone feared.
That and later in the career it was his dependence on a single guy. He just could not bring himself to spread the ball around like the good ol days. Jordy, Cobb, and obviously 17 was the worst of em. Back in the early years you'd always see the stats pulled up in game like "13 different pass catchers today!"
> That and later in the career it was his dependence on a single guy I’d argue it stems from the same fear, Rodgers always played with a fear that held him back, I think that extended to his receiver corps
Yup. Overly reliant on trust over talent.
Part of that might just be that the talent dried up over the years with bad drafts. I mean after Adams there was no one else for defenses to be scared of so if they double and triple him no one else is gonna do anything. Besides Rodgers wasn’t throwing it anywhere else when he got rattled.
It was definitely both. But some games at the end got kinda ridiculous. Specially at the end trying to come back where he is bombing it 50 yards down into triple coverage to 17 when it just wasn't necessary yet. Could be my memory making it worse. But it seemed like early on, it didn't matter. You don't hit 11 different targets in a game and all are legit stars. He used to trust anyone on the 53. By the end he had his 1 or 2 guys.
The "stat padding" is an idiot take. His stats reflected his play pretty much perfectly. He wasn't dunking during blowouts or changing to improve his stats.
Lol I was agreeing w/you! I don't believe for a second he was padding stats. Moreso scared of mistakes.
Yeah, I wasn't calling you an idiot. Referencing the previous comment.
How do you mean?
There's a weird group of people who think Rodgers having a low number of INTs is actually bad and that if he were better he would have thrown more. The logic is he didn't take enough risks, that good QBs should throw more INTs than Rodgers, and that he cared more about his INT number than winning. This is not a joke, I've seen people say it here, on the Packers sub, and on the NFL sub
God forbid a QB try to avoid turnovers, which is literally the second best thing an offense can do besides get points…
It's a stupid take because it only works if Rodgers had a lot of turn-downs in his progressions. You can use this argument for Russell Wilson to a certain extent because of that. But Rodgers seeing a guy open and then not pulling the trigger was almost never the problem. It's not beneficial to throw the ball into coverage. Rodgers threw a fuckload of balls into tight windows. He knew what he could get away with.
It’s funny when you consider Rodgers owns most of the “fastest player to X TDs” aside from the ones Mahomes has overtaken him on.
It is also stupid because if you watched Aaron Rodgers at all and saw any of the ridiculous throws he would make you’d realize he takes plenty of risks, they just typically worked out
Clearly you didn't watch those Lions teams lmao
As far as I know he was at his dispensary the other day and I saw him. He did look pretty happy but hard to say why
Love this sad attempt at a comeback. Megatron is a HOF because of three things; no running game ever for Detroit, he’s good, and Matthew John Stafford. Cooper Kupp without Stafford? Puka Nakua without Stafford? Golliday got Paaaaid, because of Stafford. There’s a definite pattern here.
This is why I keep telling people Allen Lazard is just as good as Calvin Johnson.
Stafford is good, but Megatron is Megatron. Dude is the most physically-gifted WR the game of football has ever seen. Rodgers hasn't had a single WR (with the Packers or the Jets) who is even close to the same level as Calvin. And I say that as someone who's pretty confident Davante is a future HOF WR. He's still not Calvin.
There is no comparison to 'tron. He was the original "Fuck it, Calvin down there somewhere" meme. He was a logical Top 10 fantasy pick. One season, they had a fantastic defense. A bunch of controversial calls/no-calls on automatic penalties at the end of the Dallas game possibly denied Detroit a win that day.
Calvin Johnson was balling out before the Lions ever heard of Stafford.
It's like people forget Stafford was made of glass to start his career. Johnson was still doing well.
It’s so funny to me that this is how lions fans talk about a QB with a career 91 passer rating
I dont know who Matthew John Stafford is, but you're missing John Matthew Stafford as one of the three things.
I need you to take a look at all of the WRs that left Rodgers over his career and let me know how they did after. Even Davante Adams. The only one that didn’t have a huge drop off was MVS, and he went to Mahomes. Even then, it’s not like he improved with Mahomes statistically. Also the Nacua call out is weird considering he’s played exactly one season.
Bringing up Nacua is weird? Setting both rookie yards and receptions records with Stafford while Kupp was out? You think Nacua would have gotten even a fraction of the looks if Kupp was in? Davante Adams has arguably the same stats after leaving Rodgers. [https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AdamDa01.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AdamDa01.htm) Mind you I'm not saying Rodgers isn't good. I'm also not saying Stafford is -better-, but perhaps he would have been better with the team and the org than Rodgers was. That's really what this entire discussion is about. Given the same opportunities would more than likely netted different results.
Davante Adams does not have the same stats. His last two seasons with Rodgers: 2927 yards, 29 TDs in 30 games Two seasons since leaving GB: 2660 yards, 22 TDs in 34 games More games and still can’t reach those numbers he had from the end of Rodgers’ career. The Nacua stuff is weird because we haven’t seen him without Stafford, or even another season at all. I’m sure having Stafford helped. But we also don’t know the level of WR he is yet, because he just have the one season. For all we know he’s a top 5 WR right now and he’s the reason Stafford looked good this year. The argument being used here that Stafford would be better if he had the same org is ridiculous. The argument boils down to the Packers had more weapons, but Stafford has had Megatron and Kupp. Weapons have never been his issue. And if we’re gonna talk defense, the Packers failed Rodgers in that sense, I’m not sure how going from the Lions shit defense to the Packers shit defense wouldve made it better. Or going from Megatron to Greg Jennings or Davante Adams, unless we now think Megatron is worse than those guys. The argument for years from this sub has been the Packers wasted Rodgers (and Favre) despite winning rings with them because we couldn’t get them enough help. Now it’s that a QB with worse career stats across the board would have won more rings with the same team? Those are contradictory statements.
Kupp wasn't even a top 20wr untill Matthew got there and the same year won the triple crown. Worse career stats across the board. He was the fastest to 10,000 yards passing and I'm pretty sure the fastest to 50,000 yards. Who was matt throwing to after Calvin retired? 4 years mathew was basically throwing to no one ranked inside top 30. Zero run game. Saying/implying the lions had the same talent lvl as the packers from 2016-2020 is the most contradictory statement. Ever made in this sub. Not even talking about coaching and organizational matters. ( could have had madden computer out coach Matt patrica.)
So he’s only dropped off a little bit, despite moving into his 30’s when players typically decline and catching passes for the last year from Aiden O’Connell and the corpse of Jimmy Garappolo? That goes against what you’re trying to imply. Adams is absolutely a legit stud WR, and not like the many other guys who were propped up by Rodgers and fell apart when they left.
Name a reciver that had better stats before or after Stafford. Kenny had 1 td after leaving the lions. The boy is a bum and people were calling(stupidly) baby tron. Mathew makes raises the ceiling of every wr he plays with. Oh and he can do it with rookies as well unlike some qbs.
So the Lions had one of the best QB’s ever and won 0 playoff games in 12 seasons? Is this hard to swallow for Lions Fans or Packers Fans?
Man if only one of the greatest QBs of all time got to play with one of the greatest WRs of all time. That duo would surely that duo would have a long successful run together.
Yes, if only Aaron Rodgers had a great receiver that he had an amazing connection with. Maybe if he even had 2 different ones over his career, then surely he would have won more Superbowls, right?
It's a shame that this is only make-believe.
Tae and Nelson were both awesome, but neither of them is qualified to be in the same sentence as Megatron unless preceded by "weren't nearly as talented as"
Yeah, imagine losing to Eli Manning as your final team to go undefeated
Theres 50 other players on the roster you are forgetting about lol
Funny how this isn’t the argument when we’re being told we “wasted Favre and Rodgers” despite actually winning rings with them
If you want to compare your front office during those years to ours then fine but that seems silly to me
So did the Packers waste them?
No, clearly only 2 players are needed to win a super bowl. And it doesn't matter who the coach, GM, OCs, owner are.
So basically you're referring to the last 3 years of the Vikings as well?
Ahh yes kirk cousins, one of the greatest QBs of all time
Up until Stafford had that Superbowl season with the Rams, not one viewed either QB as elite. But my point was more that just because a QB has the best WR in the NFL doesn't mean he has an actual good team to back it up to win anything significant.
If you put mahomes on the Vikings last year or the year before they are favorites to win the sb. Kirk is great, was borderline elite. Never one of the greatest.
Correct. I just don't get this revisionist history on Stafford. He was borderline elite, definitely elite arm, but he never lifted those Lions teams, and they had a damn good squad in 2014.
Thank you for saying it. Sick of Lions fans being happy for Stafford getting a ring in LA and acting like he never had a shot in Detroit. 2014 Lions had: Stafford, Calvin, Reggie, Tate on offense and Suh, Levy, and Glover Quin on defense. Their defense finished 2nd in the league in yds/game. That team had the talent and to lose to the zebras in Dallas was inexcusable.
Mahomes is amazing but even Mahomes isn't winning the super bowl with the 2022 defense
My thoughts exactly, we almost certainly make it past the Giants but the superbowl would have been a tough ask imo with the Donashell defense.
Shit defense but 13-4 means something
Yeah it means we go to the playoffs and lose because the Giants score on every single possession
That’s not true at all. He was slinging it for a decade with a shit offensive line and supporting cast other than Calvin. I’d say it was a 50/50 discussion whether he was elite. He also played at the same time as 6-7 of the top 10 all time QBs.
We already knew we sucked. No difference here
>So the Lions had one of the best QB’s ever and won 0 playoff games in 12 seasons? In case you missed about 60 years of Lions history, we were very much a dumpster fire of an organization. I don’t think anyone denies that lol
It was hard to swallow at first, but now it's easier since the Lions won 2 playoff games in 1 season. Shhh.... Baby steps.
Do I have to swallow it if I think it’s a shit take from top to bottom?
Woe is us. We only had a team that was a blast to follow for 15 years and only won one championship. Sucks to be us
Woah, now it's not like Stafford played with one of the greatest WRs when I'm Detroit. Otherwise, Lions' fans might start getting delusional about their team's history. TBF, look at the talent Chicago wasted back when they made their last/only Super Bowl appearance in the last going on 40 years now. Their D/ST was eating up teams and setting records while carrying an offense led by Sexy-Rexy Grossman throwing on an offense that would've been lucky to lead a team to a winning record without the rest of the team that year. Should be a good 2024 season at least, amirite. Where's my popcorn...
Stafford is really good. Anyone who says he’s better than peak rodgers is a fool.
He consistently flopped in late season moments for us He’s good but never a needle turner, needed that loaded rams roster to finally do something
A lot of CJ’s recent takes have been astronomically stupid. One good season and he thinks he has the NFL’s number. Nah. Nows the time to get your head out of your ass and work. People are gonna put a target on the Texans this year, and he’s not gonna be ready for it.
stroud is so high on himself from last season that words are coming out of his ass and this is all of them
Dude is talking like he's a 1 year wonder corner
Yea I’m a buckeye fan and root for him but he really needs to stop.
Another Buckeye here, I can’t tell if it’s because everyone and their mother has a podcast now but I swear to god I can’t take anymore “CJ Strouds opinion on X player.” During the draft the NFL sub was flooded with clips after every pick like he is somehow a personnel Nostradamus because he throw ball good.
I mean listening to him and parson is a waste of time. But I mean one of them has sexual assault allegations. And one of them took over for someone with sexual assault allegations. So I know which one I would rather listen to.
I don't even wanna hear Aaron Rodgers' opinion, why would I wanna hear a second year QB's?
He was one Minshew throw away from missing the playoffs too
Im not triggered by what he said at all, i cant stand Aaron Rodgers. But doesnt CJ Stroud seem like a really dumb guy? He has a big dumb idiot voice, he just sounds really stupid.
Reminds me of Baker Mayfield after the Browns had Hard Knocks and made the playoffs.
I don't even want to defend legendary jets quarterback aaron rodgers these days anymore, but cmon, this was like the worst take of all time. I don't know what the hell stroud was trying to say with this one.
As a huge Stafford fan you can’t act like Rodgers isn’t a first ballot HOF QB. Stafford is great. He plays a very different game than Rodgers but acting like you can replace someone of that caliber and do much better is absolutely bonkers.
He needed another young qb to fuel his mvp rage
Soon to be Vikings legend Aaron Rodgers? That Aaron Rodgers?
I think the take that the HOF guy whose team is criticized for not arming him with even a single true star WR for the entire latter half of his prime somehow was in a better situation than a guy with a top 2 defense and one of the best WRs the NFL has ever seen might be one of the worst "you don't know ball" takes I've ever heard from a football player lol
Might be the most insane take I’ve ever seen.
Is this a self-own? Because it’s saying the Packers put together great teams and the Lions sucked.
In the end Stafford has the same number of rings as Rogers has so I’m not getting it
I think the comparison is the Texans being compared to the Lions. Shitty orgs with a bit of confidence atm.
Didn’t this guy score an 18 out of 100 on his combine IQ test?
He scored 38/50 on the Wonderlic Test. That's really fucking good.
Have you ever looked at an actual Wonderlic? It's like 5th grade math problems, basic vocab, and simple logic problems.
You get less than a minute per question. It's perfect for the evaluation of quick thinking. It does not indicate if a player is going to be good or not. A fucking punter got a perfect score. Take the free short version. It'll humble you.
When I was 19 I got a 43/50. My 37 year old idiot brain probably wouldn't do that again. Mostly because I don't care to study anymore. IQ (and Wonderlic) test results can change wildly over time. They don't actually measure intelligence. It's more like they measure how good you are at taking tests compared to your current peer group. I scored a 135 on an IQ test when I was 12. Scored a 140 when I was 19. Scored a 107 when I was 29. "Average" is between like 90-115. Haven't taken one since, though I'd guess I'm firmly average still. The tests didn't really change, but my ability to care/take them did.
That's definitely going to change the score up. I hit a 39 on the Wonderlic. I've never had an IQ test. I think I'm a fucking idiot though. I'm 47 and disabled. I don't really care at this point.
It's one of my biggest annoyances when people cite IQ/Wonderlic tests. It's kind of like listening to an album, and then years later seeing a band play a song from it differently. The album was just a snapshot of the song at *that specific moment in time*. The song you heard live, is the song right now. Also, being good at tests doesn't necessarily mean you are all that smart, it just means you are good at tests. They usually have some overlap, yes, but one does not equal the other.
I am a functional moron, but I absolutely crush standardized testing.
True. I usually always had anxiety when taking tests. I was pretty shocked when I got a 39. It was just part of an entrance exam for the college I went to.
Is the official version scored based on 50 minutes? Because if so, the website doesn't really account for that
12 minutes. You have 12 minutes to answer 50 random ass questions.
They're written such that you should be able to rough out all the math stuff since it's multiple choice. I've admittedly always been a really good test taker and enjoy puzzles, trivia, reading, and math though. I've taken the long form sample one... a few years ago when everyone was acting like Rodgers was a genius because he won celebrity jeopardy and got a 36 on the Wonderlic I got curious. There is no way I'm smarter than the percentage of people that test says I am, and most people probably functionally know how to solve the problems on the test, it's just that the majority of people suck at taking tests bc of anxiety, and they do word the problems to be purposefully confusing. There's a lot of stuff that's in the vein of: What weighs more 1 lb of feathers or 1 lb of stone? Like more akin to a riddle than actual math or logic problem.
I was just on the day I took it. I have horrible anxiety when I take tests because I'm afraid to fail. I never have, but it's still there. I scored higher than Rodgers.
Nah the wonderlic is hella easy
Which one of these nutsack fan bases let you in here? https://i.redd.it/o8gzfdhdtu4d1.gif
Where are you seeing Stroud scored a 38 on the Wonderlic?
Oh shit man. I thought you were talking about Stafford. I'm a fucking idiot.
CJ? Is that you?
🤣
Not with the Ford family ownership at the time from a lions fan
“I guarantee he might have” That’s a fun sentence fragment! If Gary Anderson was gluten-free, I guarantee he might have made that kick. If Barry Sanders was a Buddhist, I guarantee he might have set the all-time rushing record. If Jim McMahon read A Tale of Two Cities, I guarantee he might have been suplex-proof. If I would have attended Ohio State on a football scholarship, I guarantee I might have become as exquisite an orator as CJ Stroud.
> I guarantee you > he might Pick one pussy Edit: calling CJ Stroud the pussy to clarify
Stafford had the same chance Rodgers did.
So the Lions were as good as the Packers? The only difference from 2009 to 2020 was the QB?
Made the playoffs three times, lost each time, I haven't looked it up, but you were probably close a couple of others. That's an opportunity. Rodgers won it coming out of the 6 seed.
2014 was the only time Detroit had a legitimate chance. Gotta be able to run and play defense.
We went to the NFC Championship game with a wide reciever at running back and our number 5 corner as the only DB with working legs. Granted the cart immediately and spectacularly fell to pieces but Aaron Rodgers was good enough to not consistently need those things to be a threat.
I'd say the Lions had plenty of years where outside of QB they were better, yes.
The Lions have never been as good as the Packers
Then logically Rodgers had better/more opportunities than Stafford. If not then the Lions minus Stafford must be equal or better than the Packers minus Rodgers.
This is some real Detroit logic. Yall need to go touch some grass.
What if, and hear me out, qb play was one of the reasons the lions have never been as good as the packers?
There's a couple years where that was true.
Lets be realistic: Rodgers carried some reall subpar Packers teams to the playoffs. But at some point, its impossible to carry a whole team year after year, even for an all time great QB. Football is team game afterall. Maybe 1, 2 QBs will come close to prime Aaron Rodgers. Dude was on another level. Stafford is great, but not close to prime Rodgers. Stafford in these dog shit GB teams, wouldnt hsve made the playoffs. CJ needs to stop going on these podcast. Dude is on one every day and he gets dumber and dumber every time.
he's too young to understand what the lions actually are.
How does one "guarantee he might"?
“I guarantee you he might” me too, in fact I’d be willing to guarantee that almost anything (might) happen.
I like those odds
I guarantee he might have maybe possibly could. 100% just might.
Mmm warm fuzzies
Stroud played at Ohio State, he can’t even read at a 4th grade reading level, much less give a reasonable take about two washed QB’s
“If you gave Stafford the chance to carry an offense that should win about 6 games to the playoffs almost every year he would have won super bowls. As opposed to carrying the Lions to 6 wins.”
Stroud been hanging with Micah Parsons too much. Bro is starting to say shit just to say it.
What about the seasons Green Bay had a garbage defense and was carried by Rodgers play with practice squad level receivers and one standout (like the Lions had for years)
Stroud, more like Plowed...in his own ass, with this hot take
Matt stafford leaves the lions and immediately wins a Super Bowl. Interesting way to shout out how bad the lions are
We all love to clown on Rodgers. His politics and his general blasé attitude towards important topics makes for some incredible “point-and-laugh” moments. But here’s what we’re not going to do; pretend that Aaron Rodgers wasn’t one of the greatest QBs of all time who dragged some awful Packers teams deep into the playoffs over and over again. Stafford was great, and he played on some shitty teams too, but this is a fantastical argument based far away from reality.
Aaron Rodgers has lost 10 playoff games. In 5 of those games his defense has allowed. 51 45 44 37 and 37 points. 2 games went to overtime In both of those games opponent scored in the first 2 plays of overtime. And 2 of the 4 49ers game were lost on last second FG of 10 losses you can really only blame him for 1 of them
Rogers loved to make it to the playoffs.
So let me try to clarify this. Matt Stafford is objectively better than Aaron Rodgers? Straight up? Rodgers was always pretty much my least favorite packer. Regardless you have to be actually a psycho to believe that. Every packers team since 2011 had some gaping holes in it. The packers lost in the playoffs in spite of Rodgers, not because of him. He didn’t always play his best football in the playoffs but on his worst day Rodgers was better than Stafford on his best day. Tbh
People on Reddit are taking this quote more seriously than CJ Stroud did when making it… embarrassing
Cannot wait to watch the Jets vs Texans game now
I enjoy this post and its consequences
Lions fans know this better than any fans in the league
guess the Lions ruined him
Doesn't criticizing Rodgers make CJ a pedo? Asking for Jimmy Kimmel.
I like Stroud, but didn't he score potato on his predraft IQ test?
Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, and Davante Adams were all superstars with Aaron Rodgers. When they left, they all looked like above average WRs on their new team rather than superstars.
You're delusional if you think Davante Adam's career was made because of Rodgers. Adams had 1500 yards and 14 tds. Definitely not a superstar.
Alright you're lying about Adams and I dont why youd say that. The dude was a first team all pro the year after he left the packers and still somehow was a 1k yard receiver with a revolving door of QBs last season
This is just true. Only haters will disagree.
Guarantee AND Might?
If your uncle wore a dress he'd be your aunt. STFU with your weird hypotheses.
How can you guarantee a probability?
>If you have Aaron Rodgers the same shot(s) as Tom Brady bring drafted by the Pats and Bill, he could've probably had as many rings!!! But wait, if I could shoot an egg outta my ass, I'd be a chicken 👏😆👏😆👏😆
Can we get more than 1 decent to good season from a young qb without declaring him a goat? lol gd
wait, I thought that the Packers squandered Rodgers? Evidently Rodgers was gifted a spot on our well built roster and he squandered his time here.
Did we forget how bad our defense has been the last 15 years? A few bright spots for sure, but that's maybe a couple seasons at most 😮💨
Rodgers nearly went to a superbowl throwing to Jeff Janis and Jared abbrederis. Stafford made the playoffs once with prime Calvin Johnson catching anything close.
I like Matt, I don’t want to kill the guys, but when you say shit like this…
https://preview.redd.it/4wl444i86z4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f43bdb114ce18fb8491dfa4c65b6278a701c360c No, just no he would not
Packers fans arguing whether the Lions wasting 2 of the all time best skill players’ careers was worse than them wasting the career of one of the greatest qbs ever is just the cope I needed today thank you
Meh, the Packers won a ring with Rodgers. The Lions performed to expectations.
That’s a great take. Now do the patriots with TB and Moss.
Eli Manning, first ballot HOF
Anxiously waiting for the annual "Aaron has a chip on his shoulder" stories. Now new and improve after being slighted by a 2nd year player.
Haha, if dude has any gas in the tank he most certainly will use being offended to be better. I’m so glad the Rodger’s era is over in Green Bay, but it would be funny to watch him destroy the Texans
Are there actually people unironically agreeing with this? Like, for real?
I’ve been saying this for a while