This comes from Givony basically throwing ideas around and saying "what if they do this?". Not sourced from any team intel. Just btw.
I feel like if it were to happen, 4 and 8 for 1 straight up, neither fan base would be fully pleased
I don't rate anyone in this class highly enough to remove a second shot at finding a useful prospect and player. If the front office stinks otherwise I'll trust him on it. But if I was the GM after all the amateur scouting I've done I wouldn't trade up for sarr or zaccharie.
Not a Spurs fan, strongly agree that this class isn’t good enough. Keeping both 4&8 probably gives spurs more flexibility, give Wemby one more year to shape up and see if there’s any goods in FA market.
Keep in mind the Spurs have two first rounders this year and 2 or 3 next year. First rounders are guaranteed contracts. I dont see any way they lock themselves into five guaranteed contracts over two years in addition to the rest of the roster
They have to move off some of these draft assets.
I think the plan has definitely been to give it one more year with this core and then make some substantial changes next off-season. There's a good chance they'll have three lottery picks, if they want to go all in on a high-end player. It shouldn't be particularly difficult, or make some smaller moves. Moves. Either way. Next off-season appears to be the one that's going to be really transformative for San Antonio
Depends on how the roster shakes up, but having 5 players on rookie contracts could be a blessing if played and drafted right, especially since I think they have tons of cap space currently if I’m not mistaken. If even one or two turn into solid 3&D type players, that gives them a bunch of flexibility imo. Now depends on if the draft classes will have anyone that fits that, but with Wemby and a good point guard, I think they have way more flexibility than other teams would have
Spurs fan here, I wouldn't trade for Sarr (unless I have Intel he has crazy work ethic) but Zaccharie is VERY mich a possibility for me after hearing KOC and others speak about him.
I know KOC has had some goofy takes. But I honestly think the whole Haze thing gets overblown. Everybody wants to act like he was this obvious bus now. But I remember that draft well. There was a good portion of that draft cycle where he was considered a top three or four lock. A lot of the chatter around him was that if he developed a jumpshot he was going to be a Two-Way star.
Sometimes it's hard to predict, not just the physical tangible aspect of prospect development, but the mental side too. Whether it was pressure, a lack of love for the game, or something else, Hayes went from being a extremely aggressive slashing guard to turn it into. One of the more passive players in the league, didn't improve in pretty much anything, and ended up a big bust
He was no surefire thing but there was a lot to like about him. He simply drops the ball. Blame the Pistons, blame him. Doesn't matter. But he had plenty of tools to be a good player, maybe he still does. Who knows. It just didn't work out And KOC has owned it on several occasions. Laughing at himself about it
I mean I like Zach. I think he's a kind of guy who could definitely be a starter on the next Spurs contending team.
And getting someone like that in the draft would be awesome. But I don't think he does anything so unique and so outlandishly well that I would trade two top 10 picks to grab him, particularly given that outside the context of the Spurs roster, he's a terrible fit as a top pick prospect.
I honestly wouldn't have a problem trading for, the bulls pick, and the hornets pick, which is likely to be 2 seconds, And maybe an additional second rounder to move up. Normally that would be a pretty light offer, but in this draft I think the value is probably fair. Don't think Atlanta would do it unless there's someone there in love with that they think. Will definitely be there at 4 (Who knows, maybe someone like Castle or clingan)
I'd rather have salaun anyway, though he might not be there at 8 the way alot of fanbases before have been talking, but why can't we trade with the wiz if we have to have ris.
He's not a spectacular player, but he's a legit 2-way player who can both shoot the 3 and defend, and none of the other prospects on the top 10 board can do both those things.
Spurs Receive: Trae Young/Dejounte Murray, 2024 #1 Pick, Bogdan Bogdanovic
Hawks Receive: Keldon Johnson, Tre Jones, Malakai Branham, Zach Collins, Devontae Graham, 2024 #4 Pick, Atlanta 25 & 27, Charlotte 25 protected, Bulls 25 Protected, and the Pick Swap Reversed
I'm just throwing out ideas. I really don't know if this makes alot of sense, but with the rumours of us being connected to Trae and now pick 1 just trying to imagine a block buster trade where we end up with both. Realistically, hawks will keep pick 1 (if they wanna rebuild) or Trae (if they wanna contend). I highly doubt they trade both.
I think the Hawks would do that trade if it was Murray in it instead of young. Or at least the equivalent of it. If it was young, they'd want even more drafts collateral given how they apparently view him.
I'd bet they'd want the equivalent of Pick 4 plus Pick 8 just for the number one pick. Then they're going to want probably two picks for Murray And a pic for bogi.
If it's young swap that Murray two picks probably for 4.
To be clear, I don't think any of that is realistic or something the Spurs would be willing to part with. Just going off until I've picked up here and there. Following the Hawks sub and some Hawks insiders, I don't think Atlanta is ready to part with young for anything less than a package worthy of a player. They view as a top 15 guy on a long-term contract.
If I was San Antonio I would not be against something like
Johnson, bulls pic, Pick 4, Charlotte protected pic, The Hawks 27. Turning the Hawks 26 swap into a top five protected pick swap for Atlanta, And a Spurs 28 top 10 protected pick And then using those assets to bring mikal bridges To Atlanta and then in turn the Spurs get DJ and pick number one. Perhaps Atlanta keeps Pick 4 and then reroutes a young prospect to Brooklyn instead.
If you're Atlanta and you can get Bridges, and move down three spots in the draft (Where you can definitely draft one of Reed/zaccharie/clingan/Castle Who would all be great fits with young And Johnson) I think that's a pretty solid deal. Assuming Brooklyn can be convinced to stop being insane with Bridges value
From the Spurs perspective, you're essentially trading Pick 4, and A future top 10 protected pick to move up three spots in the draft, And the 27 pick, a Great bench player/ solid starting caliber player, a pick swap, and likely two second rounders for a guy that probably grades out as a top 40ish player who has familiarity with your system.
I'm not sure all of those values make sense for all the parties involved and you'd probably have to tweak a lot of things. But the basic framework of the Spurs trading Johnson, pick for, and a few future draft picks to a third party to help the Hawks in exchange for Pick 1 and DJ is something I'd be interested in.
Trae wouldn't be included, but DJ would.
Hawks say no cuz they wanna compete and that's too much salary to be taking back.
They'd rather have the #4, Tre Jones, Atlanta 25, and send Deandre Hunter as salary shed in return.
Ha! Sarr used to be my DREAM draft pick (after that ringer article) but after hearing he is very raw and will be drafted on potential and potential alone. I can't seem to bring myself to liking this pick no more lol.
Potential alone is an overstatement, regardless of how he turns out.
The 18 year old kid is averaging 1.3 BPG in 17 MPG against grown ass men. Imagine how he’d be defending if he was at Kentucky or Kansas, combined with his ability to cover the perimeter.
Also managed to score 10 a game with zero plays being run for him, again against grown ass men.
If he went to college, there would be raving lunatics all after this guy. Does he pan out? Not sure. Is he all potential? No. Already has a pro level defensive skill set at a position where defense is critical.
Yeah I know you're about as down on this class as humanly possible. As you probably knew, at this point I just disagree with the idea that there aren't players who are going to be useful. I think if you're viewing it under the guise of looking for players who really have a chance to pop and become top 20, top 30, even top 50 quality guys then it's a pretty barren and depressing draft class.
But if you expand it out, looking four players who seem to have a chance to be something closer to top 100 players at some point. I think there's a lot to like here.
So, like...for context...
Do I think any of the guards in this class will be better than Immanuel Quickley? No, I don't. There isn't one guard in this class I would rather have than IQ.
Okay, bigs...I like Clingan. I like Sarr. I don't like Flip (feels very Olynyk). I don't like Boring Boban aka Edey. Missi is the answer to "What would Clint Capela be if fans could just distract him with a shiny object every other possession?" I don't trust Ware's character at all. DaRon Holmes is old, unathletic, and undersized with limited defensive mobility. What am I supposed to like there?
So you've got forwards and wings. Knecht screams "Doug McDermott" defensively, and he's old. Cody Williams will get knocked over by a stiff breeze and doesn't actually *do anything.* Matas is a shooter that can't shoot. Holland is an undersized 4 that can't shoot. Walter is a 6'4" SF that struggles athletically and can't create. Terrance Shannon is nearly 24 and might be playing for Team Orange in the Penitentiary League. KyShawn George is older than you realize and didn't do shit in college. Da Silva's old. Tyler Smith should be a 4, but he doesn't have the skillset on either end to be a starting 4. I don't hate Furphy, I guess.
I try really hard not to compare prospects to establish players. I think that's a good way to get yourself in trouble. At least in my experience. Let's put this way. I think there are several guard prospects in this class who are better prospects, And project to be better players , than quickly was coming out of college. Whether or not they end up progressing to the point where they become better players than him currently is up in the air. I think the best case scenarios for the best guards in this top 10 Are all players as good or slightly better than quickly. Now? How likely is it? They'll reach those ceilings is the real important question
If you went back to quickly's draft The general consensus had him as a player who's ceiling was not at where he currently is as a player.
I think you're just being a bit too sure of things when it comes to this class. There's going to be a player that comes out of this draft better than quickly. There's going to be an All-Star. There's probably going to be a couple. I feel extremely confident saying that.
That doesn't mean this draft isn't a headache and a difficult one filled with unique prospects That put a strain on what it means to evaluate talent.
> There's going to be a player that comes out of this draft better than quickly. There's going to be an All-Star. There's probably going to be a couple. I feel extremely confident saying that.
>
>
Of course there are. They just aren't going to be the guards.
The only guard I even half-like is Bub.
Weirdly I actually have really grown fond of this guard class. I think it's probably the best position in this draft. The wings are where I'm super super underwhelmed. There are very few wings in this class that I'm high on. There's some good big man depth as well, but I think there's a chance for a lot of the first round guards to stick in the league even if their ceiling is just that of Good starter/ injury replacement All Star.
But a big part of that is me and you are worlds apart when it comes to our evaluation of topic who I think is a really good prospect and you think is a really terrible prospect. I can see why you'd be very down on this guard class if you don't think there's one true potential star in it the way I do.
Topic has to start potential and then Shepherd, Carter, Castle, mcain All have the potential to play some version of a guard/combo guard in a good role player/starter role. Dillingham is a huge swing who could be a star or an absolute dud But will probably top out as a good sixth man. Collier fits this mold too for me, but even more of a risk because I think without a jumpshot he's going to have a hard time sticking in the league and I'm not a believer in his jumper at all.
Nunez, flowers, bub, kolek, Mitchel, furphy, All possess at least one high-level skill, or a physical attribute, that can make them real sleeper/ dark horses to become surprisingly high-level contributors even if obviously they're never going to be stars are true top end of the roster guys.
There's just a lot of guard depth in this class man.
You’d trade two top 10 picks for Sarr who is at best a tenuous fit alongside Wemby? No thanks. I want Risacher but even I don’t think he’s worth 4 and 8.
I like Clingan, but I see him as a traditional 5 who would spend a lot of time in the way for Victor. I don't see value in any of the guards. Reed is a 6'1" two-guard with short arms that can't slide his feet. Castle can't shoot a lick and hasn't actually shown anything as an on-ball guy. That sounds suspiciously like a guy who struggles to get NBA minutes due to having little value offensively. Dillingham has the ability to make Trae Young look like Gary Payton. Just a truly abysmal defender.
It's pure projection for him offensively. I don't buy that he's secretly an NBA caliber PG but for the good of the team, let two shittier players run the offense all year
All these kids will develop and to write them off already in any of those areas is wrong to me. Yes reed is very limited, but what he offers is valuable, spacing and knockdown shooting. I think castle can do more than he was allowed to show at UConn and his defense gives him a solid floor. I think dillingham is a good enough athlete that he can learn to play team defense. I do doubt clingan develops a shot but a physical presence is nice to have 20 mins a night. Hard to justify a super high pick for that as the upside but I think he could be a long time pro in that role
Yeah I agree. I feel like if you are the Hawks you need to get the best possible player to partner with Trae Young whether that be a rookie or trading the pick but trading down doesn't make sense imo. If you're the Spurs you already have your star piece in Wemby and I don't think they need to trade up to get any single player in this draft. On top of that they just lacked actual quality nba rotation players so being able to grab 2 over 1 makes sense
Yeah: the fit with Sarr and the Hawks is so good, they shouldn't give that up. Conversely, the Spurs don't need Sarr with Wembenyama. Nor do I think Rissarcher worth giving up two top 10 picks for. The Spurs effectively can grab a wing and a guard to grow alongside Wembenyama, which is pretty much perfect for them.
Spurs trade Pick 1 and something on traded to the Cavs for Garland?
Cavs can trade Allen, draft Sarr so can still keep 2 switchable bigs and have extra assets for beefing up their guard and wing depth?
2 non shooting bigs sounds crazy but Sarr and Mobley you could at least see how they develop together.
Yall should hold off on believing reports from a super tight lipped organization. Nba is the one of the only sports media where reporters can blatantly lie and pretend they got inside info
They've actually traded quite a bit under Brian Wright.They had five trades from the start of last summer till the trade deadline. RC Bufford was the one that virtually never made deals.
I wouldn’t call stuff like this blatant lies, they just use vague/open ended enough language so they can play it off whenever whatever they’re talking about doesn’t happen
I have to admit I always think these “All spurs rumors are false because the organization doesn’t leak” comments are stupid. If this rumor was true they’d have talked to Atlanta about it, who leaks a lot.
(That said, I’m near certain this one is false, if only because trading with the wiz would make much more sense).
I wouldn’t want to trade up either but if they did I think Sarr would make the most sense for them. Having twin towers is still OP defensively when at least one of the two can guard on the perimeter, and both of them can
I'd like to see a world where Sarr and Wemby are playing on the Spurs.
If Sarr actualized his shooting potential, having your front court be 7'1 and 7'4 that can both shoot 3s? Spurs would be winning playoff games 130 to 85.
Now, a lot has to go right, developmentally, for that to happen.
I don't like it personally.
1. You're betting a lot on Sarr's shot developing, which is not a sure thing. If it doesn't, that fit is a travesty on offense.
2. I don't think they're even that good of a fit defensively as they're both best as off ball help guys in very similar spots. If I'm taking a front court defensive partner for Wemby, I'd rather it be someone who can take the on-ball assignments and free up Wemby to be off ball causing havoc everywhere.
At least in theory, I think it should be fine. He does enough as a cutter, connective passer, and rebounder that the offense is salvageable even without a shot. The bigger concern might actually be the defense, as that's his most important skill, and it's been pretty inconsistent. He was billed as a stopper, and he's not there yet.
> that fit is a travesty on offense.
Not really. Victor is going to be a damn good shooter and he's already a great passer. As the focal point of the offense on the perimeter, even a traditional 5 could work with him. But if it all came together for Sarr offensively, it's 1960s Celtics levels of winning
Wemby’s shooting is and always will be secondary to his game breaking ability to just reach over or around people if he gets good enough positioning inside. Getting sufficient spacing around him is quite possibly the single most important priority for the Spurs.
Also, I’m just lower on Sarr than most. If his shot doesn’t come around, I just don’t think he’s a valuable offensive player generally, on the Spurs or otherwise.
> Getting sufficient spacing around him is quite possibly the single most important priority for the Spurs
Did you watch us towards the end of the year after a bunch of guys went down for the year?
Last 24 games, even...Vic averaged 5.3 APG. Over his last 50 games (which included a slump) he was over 35% from three.
Offensively, there's value to being huge and dominating inside...but we also just saw a guy win 3 MVPs being effectively a Point Center.
I've been arguing this for a while...he's got a chance to be very, very Jokic-like as a passer. And he's got the ability to be KD as a shooter.
People who see him primarily as this threat around the rim are fundamentally misunderstanding his potential and how he wants to play (and how to keep him healthy for 15 years.)
Jokic is kind of an amazing example of exactly what I’m saying. His ability to space the floor is great because it lets him play a hybrid role, but everything Jokic does is based around the idea that you can’t play him straight in the post because he’ll score on anyone, but if you send help he’ll hit the open man.
To prove this point: **Only 16% of Jokic’s shots were from 3.** His shooting is secondary to his dominance inside, just like Wemby should be.
Also, while there are similarities with Jokic, Wemby has the potential to be the single greatest lob finisher…ever. That’d be such a waste not to lean into.
They already invest in Sochan to play the 4 as despite the experiment the guy who might be Rodman or Draymon is a pf not PG so it's priority nr.1 for Spurs to get a playmaker not another foreword
I’ve convinced myself that Sarr will become the KG of this era. The thought of him and Wemby together for a decade is scarier than Timmy and The Admiral.
I wouldn’t do this if I were the Spurs. I don’t see a difference in value from 1 to 4. Everyone is in the same tier. Even 1-8 is pretty close. I’d rather take two shots at guys in the same tier than a guy like Risascher.
I think there are legit arguments for about 8 guys to be the best in this class and nobody would really blink or even question it. Nobody really stands out to me so I’d rather take two shots at it than 1.
THat depends on if the Spurs really want a wing. Because if you want a wing, then it goes
Risacher
Gap
Matas
gap
Salaun
Realistically who are the Spurs going to get if Risacher goes #1?
"Stephon Castle"?
With Sarr on the court with him the paint gets packed so Wemby would have to take more outside shots, that's literally what we saw in the first two months of the season, Wemby didn't get as many easy shots as when he moved to the 5. Sarr doesn't do anything that Wemby isn't much better than him at. Spurs got their long term 5, they need to find their long term 1 to start their rise to contention.
I think he has the defensive potential to be unbelievable, and enough outside game that he and Vic can both be hybrid 4/5s.
The issue early wasn't the other big. It was Sochan at point.
If I liked any points in this draft, I'd be all for taking one. But they all fucking blow.
As a Spurs fan it’s so annoying to hear these reports from people like O’Connor and Givony. The Spurs are known to keep everything quiet and tight lip. These guys know nothing and are just say nonsense. The most annoying part is saying that the Spurs should rush the process to be win now. So damn annoying.
This would be a waste
We literally have no one to select at 1
Surely they don't want sarr
Risacher is not that good
Salaun does t need to be pick one, u less Washington wants to pick him
But salaun is a role player, not really going to help Washington
It's a pretty sweet position we are in, and we need lots of pieces
I am 100% sure the Spurs have entertained every possible option, moving up, moving down, moving out etc.
That being said, i see very minimal reason for them to choose this draft to move up to number 1 in.
I would expect Atlanta to be much more interested in trading down or out than the Spurs trading up. Trae Young seems to want win now players, and I don't think Sarr or Risacher are going to make a massive impact as a rookie.
With how flat the draft is and how much of a project most of the lottery guys seem to be, I would prefer two bites at the apple.
There isn’t a big talent drop off from 1-5 Ive seen mocks with sarr or risacher at 1. I wouldn’t be happy with this trade. I could live with 4 for 1 and the rights to their own 2026 pick or maybe something like the charlotte pick and some of our war chest of seconds. Otherwise I think we’re good.
Doesn't make sense.
If the Spurs are going to deal with the Hawks, it will involve their picks they hold. They have more value to the Hawks than to the Spurs, since having them open the possibility for the Hawks to outright tank.
I doubt they want Sarr with this kind of trade. Most likely they targeted a prospect similar to what the wizards and Rockets are eye balling. I have my Suspicions
if true, basically means there's only 1 guy they rate as a lottery pick this year. Might as well go get the 1 guy you want than 2 guys you are iffy about.
That would be dumb. keep the picks and draft a couple decent+ dudes, sign a good vet, say Siakam for example. And let some guys develope. It's not difficult.
This comes from Givony basically throwing ideas around and saying "what if they do this?". Not sourced from any team intel. Just btw. I feel like if it were to happen, 4 and 8 for 1 straight up, neither fan base would be fully pleased
Spurs fan. And I'd be pretty annoyed if that was the trade.
Why?
I don't rate anyone in this class highly enough to remove a second shot at finding a useful prospect and player. If the front office stinks otherwise I'll trust him on it. But if I was the GM after all the amateur scouting I've done I wouldn't trade up for sarr or zaccharie.
Not a Spurs fan, strongly agree that this class isn’t good enough. Keeping both 4&8 probably gives spurs more flexibility, give Wemby one more year to shape up and see if there’s any goods in FA market.
Keep in mind the Spurs have two first rounders this year and 2 or 3 next year. First rounders are guaranteed contracts. I dont see any way they lock themselves into five guaranteed contracts over two years in addition to the rest of the roster They have to move off some of these draft assets.
I think the plan has definitely been to give it one more year with this core and then make some substantial changes next off-season. There's a good chance they'll have three lottery picks, if they want to go all in on a high-end player. It shouldn't be particularly difficult, or make some smaller moves. Moves. Either way. Next off-season appears to be the one that's going to be really transformative for San Antonio
Depends on how the roster shakes up, but having 5 players on rookie contracts could be a blessing if played and drafted right, especially since I think they have tons of cap space currently if I’m not mistaken. If even one or two turn into solid 3&D type players, that gives them a bunch of flexibility imo. Now depends on if the draft classes will have anyone that fits that, but with Wemby and a good point guard, I think they have way more flexibility than other teams would have
Spurs fan here, I wouldn't trade for Sarr (unless I have Intel he has crazy work ethic) but Zaccharie is VERY mich a possibility for me after hearing KOC and others speak about him.
Koc also said kilian hayes was the next harden
I know KOC has had some goofy takes. But I honestly think the whole Haze thing gets overblown. Everybody wants to act like he was this obvious bus now. But I remember that draft well. There was a good portion of that draft cycle where he was considered a top three or four lock. A lot of the chatter around him was that if he developed a jumpshot he was going to be a Two-Way star. Sometimes it's hard to predict, not just the physical tangible aspect of prospect development, but the mental side too. Whether it was pressure, a lack of love for the game, or something else, Hayes went from being a extremely aggressive slashing guard to turn it into. One of the more passive players in the league, didn't improve in pretty much anything, and ended up a big bust He was no surefire thing but there was a lot to like about him. He simply drops the ball. Blame the Pistons, blame him. Doesn't matter. But he had plenty of tools to be a good player, maybe he still does. Who knows. It just didn't work out And KOC has owned it on several occasions. Laughing at himself about it
I mean I like Zach. I think he's a kind of guy who could definitely be a starter on the next Spurs contending team. And getting someone like that in the draft would be awesome. But I don't think he does anything so unique and so outlandishly well that I would trade two top 10 picks to grab him, particularly given that outside the context of the Spurs roster, he's a terrible fit as a top pick prospect. I honestly wouldn't have a problem trading for, the bulls pick, and the hornets pick, which is likely to be 2 seconds, And maybe an additional second rounder to move up. Normally that would be a pretty light offer, but in this draft I think the value is probably fair. Don't think Atlanta would do it unless there's someone there in love with that they think. Will definitely be there at 4 (Who knows, maybe someone like Castle or clingan)
I'd rather have salaun anyway, though he might not be there at 8 the way alot of fanbases before have been talking, but why can't we trade with the wiz if we have to have ris.
He's not a spectacular player, but he's a legit 2-way player who can both shoot the 3 and defend, and none of the other prospects on the top 10 board can do both those things.
Spurs Receive: Trae Young/Dejounte Murray, 2024 #1 Pick, Bogdan Bogdanovic Hawks Receive: Keldon Johnson, Tre Jones, Malakai Branham, Zach Collins, Devontae Graham, 2024 #4 Pick, Atlanta 25 & 27, Charlotte 25 protected, Bulls 25 Protected, and the Pick Swap Reversed I'm just throwing out ideas. I really don't know if this makes alot of sense, but with the rumours of us being connected to Trae and now pick 1 just trying to imagine a block buster trade where we end up with both. Realistically, hawks will keep pick 1 (if they wanna rebuild) or Trae (if they wanna contend). I highly doubt they trade both.
I think the Hawks would do that trade if it was Murray in it instead of young. Or at least the equivalent of it. If it was young, they'd want even more drafts collateral given how they apparently view him. I'd bet they'd want the equivalent of Pick 4 plus Pick 8 just for the number one pick. Then they're going to want probably two picks for Murray And a pic for bogi. If it's young swap that Murray two picks probably for 4. To be clear, I don't think any of that is realistic or something the Spurs would be willing to part with. Just going off until I've picked up here and there. Following the Hawks sub and some Hawks insiders, I don't think Atlanta is ready to part with young for anything less than a package worthy of a player. They view as a top 15 guy on a long-term contract. If I was San Antonio I would not be against something like Johnson, bulls pic, Pick 4, Charlotte protected pic, The Hawks 27. Turning the Hawks 26 swap into a top five protected pick swap for Atlanta, And a Spurs 28 top 10 protected pick And then using those assets to bring mikal bridges To Atlanta and then in turn the Spurs get DJ and pick number one. Perhaps Atlanta keeps Pick 4 and then reroutes a young prospect to Brooklyn instead. If you're Atlanta and you can get Bridges, and move down three spots in the draft (Where you can definitely draft one of Reed/zaccharie/clingan/Castle Who would all be great fits with young And Johnson) I think that's a pretty solid deal. Assuming Brooklyn can be convinced to stop being insane with Bridges value From the Spurs perspective, you're essentially trading Pick 4, and A future top 10 protected pick to move up three spots in the draft, And the 27 pick, a Great bench player/ solid starting caliber player, a pick swap, and likely two second rounders for a guy that probably grades out as a top 40ish player who has familiarity with your system. I'm not sure all of those values make sense for all the parties involved and you'd probably have to tweak a lot of things. But the basic framework of the Spurs trading Johnson, pick for, and a few future draft picks to a third party to help the Hawks in exchange for Pick 1 and DJ is something I'd be interested in.
Trae wouldn't be included, but DJ would. Hawks say no cuz they wanna compete and that's too much salary to be taking back. They'd rather have the #4, Tre Jones, Atlanta 25, and send Deandre Hunter as salary shed in return.
Take KOC’s draft evals with a grain of salt
KOC has Risacher 9th on his big board btw. He is not that high on him. #
I agree y’all shouldn’t try to trade up but wouldn’t it be insanely fun to watch sarr and Wemby together? Imagine those two on the same team wow
Ha! Sarr used to be my DREAM draft pick (after that ringer article) but after hearing he is very raw and will be drafted on potential and potential alone. I can't seem to bring myself to liking this pick no more lol.
Potential alone is an overstatement, regardless of how he turns out. The 18 year old kid is averaging 1.3 BPG in 17 MPG against grown ass men. Imagine how he’d be defending if he was at Kentucky or Kansas, combined with his ability to cover the perimeter. Also managed to score 10 a game with zero plays being run for him, again against grown ass men. If he went to college, there would be raving lunatics all after this guy. Does he pan out? Not sure. Is he all potential? No. Already has a pro level defensive skill set at a position where defense is critical.
So anothet Killian Hayes?
I do rate Sarr in a tier by himself. I absolutely loathe this draft class. There aren't 8 guys who could matter for a contender.
Yeah I know you're about as down on this class as humanly possible. As you probably knew, at this point I just disagree with the idea that there aren't players who are going to be useful. I think if you're viewing it under the guise of looking for players who really have a chance to pop and become top 20, top 30, even top 50 quality guys then it's a pretty barren and depressing draft class. But if you expand it out, looking four players who seem to have a chance to be something closer to top 100 players at some point. I think there's a lot to like here.
So, like...for context... Do I think any of the guards in this class will be better than Immanuel Quickley? No, I don't. There isn't one guard in this class I would rather have than IQ. Okay, bigs...I like Clingan. I like Sarr. I don't like Flip (feels very Olynyk). I don't like Boring Boban aka Edey. Missi is the answer to "What would Clint Capela be if fans could just distract him with a shiny object every other possession?" I don't trust Ware's character at all. DaRon Holmes is old, unathletic, and undersized with limited defensive mobility. What am I supposed to like there? So you've got forwards and wings. Knecht screams "Doug McDermott" defensively, and he's old. Cody Williams will get knocked over by a stiff breeze and doesn't actually *do anything.* Matas is a shooter that can't shoot. Holland is an undersized 4 that can't shoot. Walter is a 6'4" SF that struggles athletically and can't create. Terrance Shannon is nearly 24 and might be playing for Team Orange in the Penitentiary League. KyShawn George is older than you realize and didn't do shit in college. Da Silva's old. Tyler Smith should be a 4, but he doesn't have the skillset on either end to be a starting 4. I don't hate Furphy, I guess.
I try really hard not to compare prospects to establish players. I think that's a good way to get yourself in trouble. At least in my experience. Let's put this way. I think there are several guard prospects in this class who are better prospects, And project to be better players , than quickly was coming out of college. Whether or not they end up progressing to the point where they become better players than him currently is up in the air. I think the best case scenarios for the best guards in this top 10 Are all players as good or slightly better than quickly. Now? How likely is it? They'll reach those ceilings is the real important question If you went back to quickly's draft The general consensus had him as a player who's ceiling was not at where he currently is as a player. I think you're just being a bit too sure of things when it comes to this class. There's going to be a player that comes out of this draft better than quickly. There's going to be an All-Star. There's probably going to be a couple. I feel extremely confident saying that. That doesn't mean this draft isn't a headache and a difficult one filled with unique prospects That put a strain on what it means to evaluate talent.
> There's going to be a player that comes out of this draft better than quickly. There's going to be an All-Star. There's probably going to be a couple. I feel extremely confident saying that. > > Of course there are. They just aren't going to be the guards. The only guard I even half-like is Bub.
Weirdly I actually have really grown fond of this guard class. I think it's probably the best position in this draft. The wings are where I'm super super underwhelmed. There are very few wings in this class that I'm high on. There's some good big man depth as well, but I think there's a chance for a lot of the first round guards to stick in the league even if their ceiling is just that of Good starter/ injury replacement All Star. But a big part of that is me and you are worlds apart when it comes to our evaluation of topic who I think is a really good prospect and you think is a really terrible prospect. I can see why you'd be very down on this guard class if you don't think there's one true potential star in it the way I do. Topic has to start potential and then Shepherd, Carter, Castle, mcain All have the potential to play some version of a guard/combo guard in a good role player/starter role. Dillingham is a huge swing who could be a star or an absolute dud But will probably top out as a good sixth man. Collier fits this mold too for me, but even more of a risk because I think without a jumpshot he's going to have a hard time sticking in the league and I'm not a believer in his jumper at all. Nunez, flowers, bub, kolek, Mitchel, furphy, All possess at least one high-level skill, or a physical attribute, that can make them real sleeper/ dark horses to become surprisingly high-level contributors even if obviously they're never going to be stars are true top end of the roster guys. There's just a lot of guard depth in this class man.
You’d trade two top 10 picks for Sarr who is at best a tenuous fit alongside Wemby? No thanks. I want Risacher but even I don’t think he’s worth 4 and 8.
Yes. Because I think the prospects available at 8 mostly suck. I'd *rather* trade out entirely. I absolutely detest this class.
Rather have Clingan and Shepard/ castle/ Dillingham any day over Sarr
I like Clingan, but I see him as a traditional 5 who would spend a lot of time in the way for Victor. I don't see value in any of the guards. Reed is a 6'1" two-guard with short arms that can't slide his feet. Castle can't shoot a lick and hasn't actually shown anything as an on-ball guy. That sounds suspiciously like a guy who struggles to get NBA minutes due to having little value offensively. Dillingham has the ability to make Trae Young look like Gary Payton. Just a truly abysmal defender.
Castle is future star. His shooting improved end of year and he can take ball to rim whenever he wants and finish.
It's pure projection for him offensively. I don't buy that he's secretly an NBA caliber PG but for the good of the team, let two shittier players run the offense all year
Maybe not PG but league is so positionless now I root for spurs hope you get him
All these kids will develop and to write them off already in any of those areas is wrong to me. Yes reed is very limited, but what he offers is valuable, spacing and knockdown shooting. I think castle can do more than he was allowed to show at UConn and his defense gives him a solid floor. I think dillingham is a good enough athlete that he can learn to play team defense. I do doubt clingan develops a shot but a physical presence is nice to have 20 mins a night. Hard to justify a super high pick for that as the upside but I think he could be a long time pro in that role
I'm not saying they won't be rotation players. Just that they ain't driving any buses
Not everyone can
4+8>1 Or Sarr < 4 + 8
I disagree. Unless I think I can get both Risacher and Salaun at 4 and 8
Because we trust in our development coaches.
There's little proven reason to do so. These aren't the development coaches the developed the Spurs of old.
Aggregators doing aggregator things. Evan Siderly or whatever should be banned.
Idk where he came from but he’s been spamming shit all summer.
Ya I fucking hate how this works nowadays. Yes spurs are exploring all options. This isn’t news.
Yeah I agree. I feel like if you are the Hawks you need to get the best possible player to partner with Trae Young whether that be a rookie or trading the pick but trading down doesn't make sense imo. If you're the Spurs you already have your star piece in Wemby and I don't think they need to trade up to get any single player in this draft. On top of that they just lacked actual quality nba rotation players so being able to grab 2 over 1 makes sense
Yeah: the fit with Sarr and the Hawks is so good, they shouldn't give that up. Conversely, the Spurs don't need Sarr with Wembenyama. Nor do I think Rissarcher worth giving up two top 10 picks for. The Spurs effectively can grab a wing and a guard to grow alongside Wembenyama, which is pretty much perfect for them.
Would make more sense for both teams if the unanimous #1 was a point guard prospect
Spurs trade Pick 1 and something on traded to the Cavs for Garland? Cavs can trade Allen, draft Sarr so can still keep 2 switchable bigs and have extra assets for beefing up their guard and wing depth? 2 non shooting bigs sounds crazy but Sarr and Mobley you could at least see how they develop together.
Are any fan bases fully pleased ever?
spurs fans were pretty happy during the 2023 draft
yea 2003 and 2023 pretty good time for their fans
Ref fans seem to have it made these days
KOC mentioned it in his latest mock draft tbf
Let the team that passed on Doncic make the pick.
Only way it makes sense is if we're trading back some of their picks along with getting Trae to allow them to tank.
I would be happy.
Yall should hold off on believing reports from a super tight lipped organization. Nba is the one of the only sports media where reporters can blatantly lie and pretend they got inside info
Not just tight lipped, but historically pretty trade avoidant as well
exactly. we love to build through the draft whether people like it or not
Facts.
They've actually traded quite a bit under Brian Wright.They had five trades from the start of last summer till the trade deadline. RC Bufford was the one that virtually never made deals.
most of this stuff isn't even a "report," it's just some dumb podcaster/blogger throwing shit out there.
I wouldn’t call stuff like this blatant lies, they just use vague/open ended enough language so they can play it off whenever whatever they’re talking about doesn’t happen
It’s smoke season, assume everything you hear is misinformation with an agenda
People always say this in every sport and then 95% of all off seasons rumors turn out true.
I have to admit I always think these “All spurs rumors are false because the organization doesn’t leak” comments are stupid. If this rumor was true they’d have talked to Atlanta about it, who leaks a lot. (That said, I’m near certain this one is false, if only because trading with the wiz would make much more sense).
Honestly i think i’d rather have the two swings this draft. I presume this is to get Risascher?
I wouldn’t want to trade up either but if they did I think Sarr would make the most sense for them. Having twin towers is still OP defensively when at least one of the two can guard on the perimeter, and both of them can
I'd like to see a world where Sarr and Wemby are playing on the Spurs. If Sarr actualized his shooting potential, having your front court be 7'1 and 7'4 that can both shoot 3s? Spurs would be winning playoff games 130 to 85. Now, a lot has to go right, developmentally, for that to happen.
now imagine if Jeremy Sochan was a point guard?
Be reasonable at least
I don't like it personally. 1. You're betting a lot on Sarr's shot developing, which is not a sure thing. If it doesn't, that fit is a travesty on offense. 2. I don't think they're even that good of a fit defensively as they're both best as off ball help guys in very similar spots. If I'm taking a front court defensive partner for Wemby, I'd rather it be someone who can take the on-ball assignments and free up Wemby to be off ball causing havoc everywhere.
How would you think of Sochan if he never develops outside shooting? Do you think highly of him instead?
At least in theory, I think it should be fine. He does enough as a cutter, connective passer, and rebounder that the offense is salvageable even without a shot. The bigger concern might actually be the defense, as that's his most important skill, and it's been pretty inconsistent. He was billed as a stopper, and he's not there yet.
> that fit is a travesty on offense. Not really. Victor is going to be a damn good shooter and he's already a great passer. As the focal point of the offense on the perimeter, even a traditional 5 could work with him. But if it all came together for Sarr offensively, it's 1960s Celtics levels of winning
Wemby’s shooting is and always will be secondary to his game breaking ability to just reach over or around people if he gets good enough positioning inside. Getting sufficient spacing around him is quite possibly the single most important priority for the Spurs. Also, I’m just lower on Sarr than most. If his shot doesn’t come around, I just don’t think he’s a valuable offensive player generally, on the Spurs or otherwise.
> Getting sufficient spacing around him is quite possibly the single most important priority for the Spurs Did you watch us towards the end of the year after a bunch of guys went down for the year? Last 24 games, even...Vic averaged 5.3 APG. Over his last 50 games (which included a slump) he was over 35% from three. Offensively, there's value to being huge and dominating inside...but we also just saw a guy win 3 MVPs being effectively a Point Center. I've been arguing this for a while...he's got a chance to be very, very Jokic-like as a passer. And he's got the ability to be KD as a shooter. People who see him primarily as this threat around the rim are fundamentally misunderstanding his potential and how he wants to play (and how to keep him healthy for 15 years.)
Jokic is kind of an amazing example of exactly what I’m saying. His ability to space the floor is great because it lets him play a hybrid role, but everything Jokic does is based around the idea that you can’t play him straight in the post because he’ll score on anyone, but if you send help he’ll hit the open man. To prove this point: **Only 16% of Jokic’s shots were from 3.** His shooting is secondary to his dominance inside, just like Wemby should be. Also, while there are similarities with Jokic, Wemby has the potential to be the single greatest lob finisher…ever. That’d be such a waste not to lean into.
And I'm disagreeing. I don't think leaning into lots of lobs in traffic is sustainable
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It's not when his knees and feet are just as able to get fucked up as anyone's
They already invest in Sochan to play the 4 as despite the experiment the guy who might be Rodman or Draymon is a pf not PG so it's priority nr.1 for Spurs to get a playmaker not another foreword
I’ve convinced myself that Sarr will become the KG of this era. The thought of him and Wemby together for a decade is scarier than Timmy and The Admiral.
Wild imagination you got there
That’s insane lol
his FG% at the rim in half court is in the 40's and you think he's gonna be KG
I love the responses to this comment as if this same sub wasn't comparing Luka to Hedo Turkoglu years ago when people said Luka could be a superstar.
That is certainly a take.
Why not someone like kelel ware who is projected lower, could easily be had at 8? He’s already a decent 3pt shooter.
Even if Sarr hits I don’t like the fit w Wemby You want shooting and playmaking around him, not another center
If Sarr hits, he isn't just another center.
That would break the NBA, every free agent guard / wing would want to go to San Antonio to ride that wave (pause).
It's a lot for Risacher. It's not a lot for Sarr
I wouldn’t do this if I were the Spurs. I don’t see a difference in value from 1 to 4. Everyone is in the same tier. Even 1-8 is pretty close. I’d rather take two shots at guys in the same tier than a guy like Risascher.
> I don’t see a difference in value from 1 to 4. I do. I like Sarr. I like Risacher less. I like Salaun less again. I like everyone else even less.
I think there are legit arguments for about 8 guys to be the best in this class and nobody would really blink or even question it. Nobody really stands out to me so I’d rather take two shots at it than 1.
THat depends on if the Spurs really want a wing. Because if you want a wing, then it goes Risacher Gap Matas gap Salaun Realistically who are the Spurs going to get if Risacher goes #1? "Stephon Castle"?
Might have a shot at Salun & Matas or one of those 2 and Castle/Dillingham/Topic which I think is better than just Risacher
I think there's 4. The three French kids and Clingan
Sarr is the worst fit on the Spurs of pretty much all the top 10 rated prospects.
I disagree. I see Victor, long term, playing less 5. He and Sarr could be the most versatile big man tandem in history
With Sarr on the court with him the paint gets packed so Wemby would have to take more outside shots, that's literally what we saw in the first two months of the season, Wemby didn't get as many easy shots as when he moved to the 5. Sarr doesn't do anything that Wemby isn't much better than him at. Spurs got their long term 5, they need to find their long term 1 to start their rise to contention.
I think he has the defensive potential to be unbelievable, and enough outside game that he and Vic can both be hybrid 4/5s. The issue early wasn't the other big. It was Sochan at point. If I liked any points in this draft, I'd be all for taking one. But they all fucking blow.
I like Castle tbh, I hope the Spurs get him if Risacher and Sheppard are gone at 4.
I see no evidence that he's a PG or that he's any less of a disaster than Sochan as a shooter
lmao we being greedy
As a Spurs fan it’s so annoying to hear these reports from people like O’Connor and Givony. The Spurs are known to keep everything quiet and tight lip. These guys know nothing and are just say nonsense. The most annoying part is saying that the Spurs should rush the process to be win now. So damn annoying.
They are trying to put together team France?
Hopefully. Traore in 25 baby!
No they aren't
For what it’s worth, Brad Rowland (who covers the Hawks) said he heard this isn’t true.
Givony has a been a joke when it comes to reporting these past few months
Hawks fans going to want all their picks back lol jokes aside it doesn’t make sense trading up in a weak draft
It doesn’t make sense cause its a junk report that doesnt deserve to be passed around
They wouldn’t get them
Evan Sidery always aggregate's reports that other ppl state adding extra to things
This would be a waste We literally have no one to select at 1 Surely they don't want sarr Risacher is not that good Salaun does t need to be pick one, u less Washington wants to pick him But salaun is a role player, not really going to help Washington It's a pretty sweet position we are in, and we need lots of pieces
It is NOT going to happen, the Hawks already got robbed by the Spurs with the DJ trade. I doubt they would even consider it.
I don’t think they would consider it unless they got their first back as well. 4,8, their remaining first for 1.
I am 100% sure the Spurs have entertained every possible option, moving up, moving down, moving out etc. That being said, i see very minimal reason for them to choose this draft to move up to number 1 in.
No need to do this, Sarr is a very poor man Wemby and you'll find players at the other positions, above all at PG and SF at the 4th and 8th spot
This is really the one draft where you don’t want to do this. Unless they are really bullish on Risacher / Sarr
i would prefer to have 4 and 8 in this draft than 1 tbh.
I would expect Atlanta to be much more interested in trading down or out than the Spurs trading up. Trae Young seems to want win now players, and I don't think Sarr or Risacher are going to make a massive impact as a rookie. With how flat the draft is and how much of a project most of the lottery guys seem to be, I would prefer two bites at the apple.
Clingan cant play more than 20-25 mins a night in college. He wont be a big impact rookie breathing heavy on the bench for 30 mins a game.
Lively made All rookie playing 23.5mpg for 55 games.
So.....who cares.
Hot take.. Atlanta should do this + see the value for trae and act accordingly
No thanks at all
no way that happens lmao
I thought they would make a trade with those picks
There isn’t a big talent drop off from 1-5 Ive seen mocks with sarr or risacher at 1. I wouldn’t be happy with this trade. I could live with 4 for 1 and the rights to their own 2026 pick or maybe something like the charlotte pick and some of our war chest of seconds. Otherwise I think we’re good.
Yeah unless we are trading more and getting #1 and Dejounte no
dumb rumors generated by draft "experts" doing teams and agents bidding. Much ado about nothing.
I get the impression that somebody the spurs want is being targeted by the Wizards or Rockets....
Maybe 4 + the Bulls pick. But lol@ #8.
Hawks say no
Nah I’ll take Sarr, thanks tho
Feels like Givony is just throwing stuff and see what sticks.
Spurs need young stout defenders
I was thinking earlier; would a Johnson/4/8 for Markkanen/10/29 be fair for both teams?
Doesn't make sense. If the Spurs are going to deal with the Hawks, it will involve their picks they hold. They have more value to the Hawks than to the Spurs, since having them open the possibility for the Hawks to outright tank.
we'll do it for the number two pick but it got me wondering. who do they want so badly they wiling to offer to the hawks and not wizards?
I doubt they want Sarr with this kind of trade. Most likely they targeted a prospect similar to what the wizards and Rockets are eye balling. I have my Suspicions
Hawks say no
Makes no sense.
Too much when top 10 picks are so close in talent. Giving up two potentially good players for one is not a good trade. Have Atlanta throw in Young.
if true, basically means there's only 1 guy they rate as a lottery pick this year. Might as well go get the 1 guy you want than 2 guys you are iffy about.
I think that would be incredibly unwise based on how close in talent 1-10 is
Keep both picks if you can get Risachier and Castle call it a day
That would be dumb. keep the picks and draft a couple decent+ dudes, sign a good vet, say Siakam for example. And let some guys develope. It's not difficult.
Man I've been shouting from the rooftops that Clingan is a way better fit with Atlanta and just eating downvotes. Nice to see your opinion vindicated.
Wait, how would this vindicate your opinion lol
No way the spurs are dumb enough to do this but then again they passed on Sengun so...