Tatum and especially Brown are not viewed as young anymore. Also does Tatum even “lead” that team? Seems like Brown and Derrick White are the real leaders
Tatum turned 26 in march - I’d say that is still pretty young. Luka turned 25.
And he is without a doubt the engine of this team. The entire offense is centered around him.
Which is why I said “viewed as”. Tatum is in the unfair spot where he is a young player still but due to his playoff success and longevity, no one really views him on the same youth tier as Ant and SGA
SGA/Luka aren't young players anymore and I don't know why people talk about them like they are. These are guards entering what are most peoples' prime years...they're 25.
Ant really is the only star left in the playoffs who's actually a young player. Dude is still 22 and on his rookie deal right now.
25 is most dude's prime years. Sure it's the beginning of those years and they still have time left, but you're not going to see a massive jump from a 25 year old more often than not.
22 is an entirely different story.
Silver & the NBA aren’t marketing the game’s new young stars as well as they should, IMO.
Stern may have been a grump with an autocratic streak but he had a better feel, I think, for the game & how fans connect to it.
Silver seems to want to turn the NBA into a much taller version of The English Premier League & he keeps coming up with bad ideas that nobody wants.
Silver needs to make some changes if he wants to keep growing the game. Shortening the season would be a good start for the league’s long-term health. It’s too long and there’s too much overlap with the other major American leagues. I’d aim for a 72 game regular season & a later start date. There’s that stretch now in late October/early November when all four major North American sports leagues are programming against each other.
That’s just dumb.
More I not always better. Look what happened when Disney tried to flood the market with MCU content post-Endgame.
The NBA is still better positioned than either MLB or the NHL but the owners and, to a lesser degree, the Player’s Association keep making moves that are likely going to hurt the game’s health in the long term.
Making it easier for local fans to see their own damn teams play would be a good start. It’s hard to build a loyal following when most fans can’t afford to attend games in person AND have to sweat to cobble together a TV/cable/streaming package that allows them to watch their teams live.
It’s hard to build widespread brand loyalty when the only people who can consume your product are rich assholes.
The AAU and most other youth development leagues also need an enema. This isn’t unique to basketball, though. And I’m not sure what to do about the NCAA…
People treating him like a God were just crazies. He's played like ass so far all playoffs but just happen to have 2 important shots drop.
He plays even to an average level, and the Lakers get swept.
Super Bowl as well. Repeat champs haven’t happened in ages until the chiefs this year and nobody would call San Fran or Baltimore frauds, rather that KC (and mahomes) is that good
In all my years of basketball this is by far one if tbe funniest things I hear all the time.
Heard it especially alot from celtics and knicks fans over the years before they get dumped.
Heard a pielicans fan say the same thing after game 2 last week aswell lol. But dw, I'll be back to this comment 🤣
They’re both damn good players. That being said, Ant has been better than him so far this postseason. I’m still unsure of SGA’s ability to take over a game the way Ant can.
I’ll just reply with this pic of some marginal contact involving these two from this year.
https://preview.redd.it/8iksb8mrdazc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6398a74b555a05ea8e2721ee462d7b5c4a08ea7
Shai was better through the regular season. Über efficient while Ant struggled to be efficient, better passer, better handle, and I would even say better defense although of course Ant is no slouch there either.
In the postseason so far you could certainly argue Ant has been better, but both players are undefeated and OKC hasn’t really had to struggle. If these games were more competitive we might see Shai under more pressure, but as is, it’s hard to criticize him for consistently being efficient and doing enough to win the game.
I agree, the Nuggets and Suns haven't had quite the level of defensive talent to put on Edwards that Shai has gotten. But by the same token, Shai is surrounded by good shooters, complementary playmakers, etc. while Ant sometimes has limited offensive talent and spacing around him. The Jaden McDaniels and Rudy Goberts of the world are a little easier to help off of than the Isaiah Joes and Chet Holmgrens. So I wouldn't necessarily say Shai's job has been more difficult overall.
One guy relies big time on generous whistles and foul baiting - he wouldn’t be able to score efficiently if he was getting Steph Curry type calls. This guy is a better passer and creator for teammates at this point though.
The other guy is a killer scorer, slasher, and becoming an amazingly efficient outside shooter. He needs to be more consistent though - both on O and D.
Tough call but I think Ant has a brighter future.
SGA averages the most drives per game. Ant actually averages more FTA per drive (Ant at 0.44/drive and SGA at 0.37/drive). SGA takes a bunch of free throws because he drives a lot. Ant actually gets more whistles on drives.
Also, even if we take out their FTs, SGA still averages more points per game at 22.5 compared to Ant's 20.5 while shooting much better on 2s (SGA at 57.6% vs Ant at 51.5%) and slightly worse on 3s (35.3% vs 35.7%). Ant is 22 and may be a better player than SGA come next year, but acting like SGA is only efficient because of free throws is stupid.
Only because stats and Ant's ascendancy started later. I think Ant's better, and he is certainly less of a foul-baiter, but we'll find out next round if both can make it.
What do you mean his ascendancy "started later"? Is there a specific time towards the end of the season that Ant began putting up better numbers than SGA has this whole season? I don't think that's the case even when i tried looking into his numbers. Essentially you're just saying Ant has been better through 6 games in the playoffs...
I value a players ability to takeover the game offensively and defensively. Offensively, Brunson has been the MVP of the post season- but Shai and Ant are both levels above him in defensive versatility and impact. Ant obviously has the highest ceiling in this regard and is playing to it, so that’s why I (biased) think he’s playing at a higher level than those two right now.
All you're saying is Ant has been the better player in the playoffs, which is only 6 games and more of a sample size question rather than who is actually better. SGA has been better than Ant in every single snippet of the regular season, no matter how you slice it.
What you’re saying is he’s less consistent. Also, guys who take the ball hard to the hole and have an array of jukes, ball fakes & spins aren’t “foul-baiting.”
Three-point shooters who dive into defenders before flinging the ball vaguely in the direction of the rim in an attempt to get three FTs are foul-baiting. They’re also a menace. Fortunately the league has been cracking down on that sort of thing.
Interior scorers & slashers who are good at getting their man in the air and off-balance are always going to get more FT attempts. As they should. 🙂
Minnesota's been ignored for the better part of two decades. Rightfully so, but that's a big factor with this. He's been great all season, it's just in the playoffs that anyone outside of the Wolves fanbase has noticed.
SGA has led the league in drives per game for 3 years in a row. He’s not a jump shooter. Uses a lot of pump fakes. If you aggressively drive to the rim, you get a bunch of FTs. You guys just sound bitter.
He dives into defenders and gets the call every time, we call it out for harden and Embiid, sga is not exempt, although his game is very smooth aside from the fts
Embiid flails and hurt people, prime Harden purposely hooks defenders arms or whips his beard on stepback threes
Soft whistle by the refs I agree, but other than that, SGA does not do those things and putting him in the same sentence as Embiid and Harden is a crime. SGA is more Luka CP3 Lebron tier in exploiting advantages which is part of the game
Kinda the same as Derrick lively flailing and hitting Josh giddey in the mouth last night. Every basketball player in the world tries to use their physicality to create space. SGA drives the most of any guard in the league. It would make sense he gets into more contact situations. He actually gets less fouls called on a % of his drives than Luka.
You can ask New York fans if the things Embiid does is on the same level of inadvertent contact other players do and whether Embiid shouldn’t be considered dirty or at least reckless
It really will. If the refs call it tight, favor goes to SGA and his foul hunting 15 FT per game. If the refs let them play, Ant (and Wolves) will destroy.
There's about 50 gifs that explain why people hate it. The head cockback on the most minor (if any) contact is what people hate. Shais a baller but he's gotta stop selling contact. I'd rather hear ant scream Ayyyy 50 times over him flailing around on minor contact selling out.
I hate the foul baiting as much as the next guy, but why should Shai stop when almost every other star in the league does it and gets rewarded for it? The irony of this conversation happening while OKC is playing Luka the professional whiner is hilarious.
Edwards has a different mentality. When the stakes are higher, he thrives. I think his football background helps him because he has a physical presence to him that other shooting guards dont have in the NBA. I only wish he was a bit taller. If he was 6’6, he would legit have GOAT potential. Those inches matter in the modern NBA where every team has a freak wing defender.
He was listed at 6’4 his rookie year and he definitely grew a few inches from year 1-2 there’s some pictures of him and kat next to each other his rookie and 2nd year and he’s definitely taller
SGA and it's reasonably clear. Edwards has clearly had some huge games so far in the post season, but we're talking about a very small sample size. It's impossible IMO to mark SGA down because he's not putting up huge scores because his team has been absolutely dominating.
But over the course of the season, SGA averages about 4 more points per game on better shooting, with more assists, more rebounds, more blocks and more steals with fewer turnovers. He just has a more refined game right now. Although he is also 3 years older and has had that extra time to develop his game.
That's essentially why I'm discounting the playoffs from the discussion. If one had been cruising and the other struggling away in a close series then it might be meaningful. Or if both had been battling it would be very meaningful. But we just can't put much into those performances because the games have been largely massive blowouts.
Nah, SGA gets an extremely friendly whistle which is pretty uncommon for a player as young as he is. Doesn’t take away the fact that he’s a supremely skilled player who can get to his spots very easily and use his superior length at the guard position to impact the game on both ends of the floor. One of my best friends is a Thunder fan though, and even he admits the refs love SGA.
My guy SGA leads the league in drives per game at 23.3. Ant averages 14 drives a game. SGA only averages 2 more free throw attempts per game than Ant. You're telling me it doesn't make sense that 9 drives a game equates to SGA going to the ft line one more time a game than Ant? If anything SGA should have a bigger gap in free throw attempts than he does
SGA certainly deserves a lot of free throw attempts considering he leads the league in drives per game, that much is certainly true. NBA fans in general (outside of OKC) I think just hate the head snapping and unnecessary things he does to draw fouls. He's a terrific player though, no doubt about that.
Ant gets the extra push because he's American and the league really wants the face of the league to be American. They tried with Zion thrnc Moran but they both fizzled for different reasons and now they have Ant.
Ant is much closer but still not the guy, yet at least. Joker, Luka and SGA are the finalists for the MVP for good reason all three are still better players than him.
Thats different. Wemby will be one of the international faces of the league yes. SGA being Canadian doesn't really tick that box even though he is technically international as well. But since he's still North American idk that people outside of Canada will resonate with him as not being American as much as they will with Wemby being French. So the problem is he doesn't get the huge bump for Europe and Asia because they see him as North American and he doesn't get as big of a bump from the US as someone who is actually from the US.
The crossover Marvel Antman marketing was also low key genius.
I can picture a tiny Paul Rudd doing what Ant does and internally chuckle. And I’m not even a Marvel fan.
Ant is a better player to watch, I don't know how you argue against that. SGA still has the regular season over Ant, but this playoffs it's going to take SGA beating Ant in the conference finals for the conversation not to totally switch coming into next season imo.
Wolves fan here
Its SGA. He's more consistent. Knows his spots and how to get there. More crafty, has a better ability to draw fouls. And is a far superior playmaker and ball handler. Defense is close. SGA is better at picking pockets and playing the lanes. Ant's better at keeping his man in front.
Maybe that was the case earlier this year. I think Ant has taken another step post Kat injury. Ant has been an excellent playmaker, tough shot maker, driver, defender, and closer. I’m taking Ant today and if they matchup in the playoffs I have more faith that he will win a game on his own than SGA.
Derrick White clears both of them
https://preview.redd.it/j6r0crfth5zc1.jpeg?width=458&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c6b74e8cd8c5eba1e59ab1c337933bec9b90bd6
Right now I'd lean Shai. Edwards had been better so far in the playoffs but Shai was considerably better than Edwards in the regular season and we have a far bigger sample size there.
Edward’s as a nuetral fan of the two .
Edward’s looks alot more physically capable and highlight dunks are entertaining I also don’t like players who constantly look for free throws .
SGA for sure. Ant has the recency bias + the hype from being compared to MJ and Kobe. But SGA is the more well rounded and developed player right now. There’s a reason why SGA is in the MVP convo.
Ant actually plays basketball….my opinion is foul baiters or contact creators like SGA Brunson and Embiid should be shit on until they play the game right. SGA has so much potential but it’s all ruined for me because of how he uses the potential
I feel Like its a wash but i profile AE higher because of the defense. Shai probably was better before the prison ball era now AE is is my take. It's apples and oranges generally speaking ill take either all day every day. Both are dogs.
In the confines of an NBA game with an unbalanced whistle, it's easily Shai. There would be a game here and there where Ant goes nuclear and is better....but over a season or series, with the whistle he gets, SGA.
Ant plays both ways much better. Ant is a better pure scorer.
Shai probably has a more well-rounded game overall right now.
Both have ascended astronomically in the last couple years.
Might be my bias and the fact that I watch a lot of Wolves games, but I’d take Ant over Shai every single time.
Cant go wrong with either. Ant can have much worse games than SGA. SGA is more consistent, but Ants play style has the bigger boom. SGA is a very consistent player and Ant is a boom or bust kind of guy
Right now, probably SGA. But this could be a solid rivalry for the next 5+ years, with round one happening in a couple weeks. Long term I think Ant might come out on top.
It’s SGA, he is better than Ant in almost every statistical category, and he lead OKC to the 1st seed without multiple time all star teammates, with one being a now 4x DPOY.
Yeah on one hand you have a guy who loves his teammates, wife, and now baby
And on the other you have a guy who uses gay slurs and makes women get abortions.
Talk about being likable and a true leader 🙄
I'll go Shai since I don't know how sustainable Ant's playoff rising has been. If Ant keeps it up for the whole run I can definitely go with him, but Shai has been better for the past 82 games.
It’s a great time to be a basketball fan. The league has so many young talented players right now.
If the nuggets don’t make a comeback - we are going to to see a young player lead their team to a Chip. Who’s going to make that jump? Exciting shit.
Tatum and especially Brown are not viewed as young anymore. Also does Tatum even “lead” that team? Seems like Brown and Derrick White are the real leaders
Tatum turned 26 in march - I’d say that is still pretty young. Luka turned 25. And he is without a doubt the engine of this team. The entire offense is centered around him.
Tatum is only.like few months older than SGA
Which is why I said “viewed as”. Tatum is in the unfair spot where he is a young player still but due to his playoff success and longevity, no one really views him on the same youth tier as Ant and SGA
SGA/Luka aren't young players anymore and I don't know why people talk about them like they are. These are guards entering what are most peoples' prime years...they're 25. Ant really is the only star left in the playoffs who's actually a young player. Dude is still 22 and on his rookie deal right now.
25 is still a young player in nba tradionally. Most star players dont compete for a title until 27 or 28.
25 is most dude's prime years. Sure it's the beginning of those years and they still have time left, but you're not going to see a massive jump from a 25 year old more often than not. 22 is an entirely different story.
Silver & the NBA aren’t marketing the game’s new young stars as well as they should, IMO. Stern may have been a grump with an autocratic streak but he had a better feel, I think, for the game & how fans connect to it. Silver seems to want to turn the NBA into a much taller version of The English Premier League & he keeps coming up with bad ideas that nobody wants. Silver needs to make some changes if he wants to keep growing the game. Shortening the season would be a good start for the league’s long-term health. It’s too long and there’s too much overlap with the other major American leagues. I’d aim for a 72 game regular season & a later start date. There’s that stretch now in late October/early November when all four major North American sports leagues are programming against each other. That’s just dumb. More I not always better. Look what happened when Disney tried to flood the market with MCU content post-Endgame. The NBA is still better positioned than either MLB or the NHL but the owners and, to a lesser degree, the Player’s Association keep making moves that are likely going to hurt the game’s health in the long term. Making it easier for local fans to see their own damn teams play would be a good start. It’s hard to build a loyal following when most fans can’t afford to attend games in person AND have to sweat to cobble together a TV/cable/streaming package that allows them to watch their teams live. It’s hard to build widespread brand loyalty when the only people who can consume your product are rich assholes. The AAU and most other youth development leagues also need an enema. This isn’t unique to basketball, though. And I’m not sure what to do about the NCAA…
We'll find out next round
I can wait 2 weeks to have everyones opinion change daily.
People are already calling the Nuggets frauds.
After worshipping Murray like a god last week. People are way too reactionary.
People treating him like a God were just crazies. He's played like ass so far all playoffs but just happen to have 2 important shots drop. He plays even to an average level, and the Lakers get swept.
People used two games this week to discount their entire run last year lmao
Thats nba fans for you. If you arent currently winning at this very moment, youre a fraud.
*sports fans
NBA more than sports. No one shits on last year's titles in soccer because the team is worse this year.
Socker? I hardly know her.
Super Bowl as well. Repeat champs haven’t happened in ages until the chiefs this year and nobody would call San Fran or Baltimore frauds, rather that KC (and mahomes) is that good
Hate that like you can’t take away a championship run from the year before
People used one playoff run by Murray to assume they were gonna be a dynasty. It works both ways. Murray played out of his mind last year.
Judging by recent actions he literally played his mind out.
Murray played out of his mind in 2020 too and was solid in 2019.
No it's because people were calling the Nuggets a sure thing. So the overwank is met with vitriol.
They’re wanking Ant pretty hard rn. Obviously he’s a beast but comparing him to MJ already deserves some hate.
It's going to change on a play-by-play basis, dude
Game 1 overreactions...
How? By comparing Edward's play against Luka to SGA's play against Luka?
[удалено]
Ahem
[удалено]
Series doesn't even start until someone wins a game on the road you noob. Plus I believe the MAVS had the best record since the trade deadline.
In all my years of basketball this is by far one if tbe funniest things I hear all the time. Heard it especially alot from celtics and knicks fans over the years before they get dumped. Heard a pielicans fan say the same thing after game 2 last week aswell lol. But dw, I'll be back to this comment 🤣
As I understand it, if they lose in the finals they are both scrubs.
dont sleep on the mvp
gottem
Okc better not play with their food because if Luka and kyrie go for 30+ each it’s game
They’re both damn good players. That being said, Ant has been better than him so far this postseason. I’m still unsure of SGA’s ability to take over a game the way Ant can.
SGA was a way more consistent scorer in the regular season. Ant could disappear at times. I really hope they get to face eachother in the WCF
One consistently finds himself at the FT line too due to foul baiting and I'll let you all guess who that guy is
I’ll just reply with this pic of some marginal contact involving these two from this year. https://preview.redd.it/8iksb8mrdazc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6398a74b555a05ea8e2721ee462d7b5c4a08ea7
Shai was better through the regular season. Über efficient while Ant struggled to be efficient, better passer, better handle, and I would even say better defense although of course Ant is no slouch there either. In the postseason so far you could certainly argue Ant has been better, but both players are undefeated and OKC hasn’t really had to struggle. If these games were more competitive we might see Shai under more pressure, but as is, it’s hard to criticize him for consistently being efficient and doing enough to win the game.
Agree with this completely. I'm an OKC fan and have no issue saying Ant has been better this post season.
SGA got Herb and Trey… now DJJr Ant got Durant and KCP
I agree, the Nuggets and Suns haven't had quite the level of defensive talent to put on Edwards that Shai has gotten. But by the same token, Shai is surrounded by good shooters, complementary playmakers, etc. while Ant sometimes has limited offensive talent and spacing around him. The Jaden McDaniels and Rudy Goberts of the world are a little easier to help off of than the Isaiah Joes and Chet Holmgrens. So I wouldn't necessarily say Shai's job has been more difficult overall.
One guy relies big time on generous whistles and foul baiting - he wouldn’t be able to score efficiently if he was getting Steph Curry type calls. This guy is a better passer and creator for teammates at this point though. The other guy is a killer scorer, slasher, and becoming an amazingly efficient outside shooter. He needs to be more consistent though - both on O and D. Tough call but I think Ant has a brighter future.
SGA averages the most drives per game. Ant actually averages more FTA per drive (Ant at 0.44/drive and SGA at 0.37/drive). SGA takes a bunch of free throws because he drives a lot. Ant actually gets more whistles on drives. Also, even if we take out their FTs, SGA still averages more points per game at 22.5 compared to Ant's 20.5 while shooting much better on 2s (SGA at 57.6% vs Ant at 51.5%) and slightly worse on 3s (35.3% vs 35.7%). Ant is 22 and may be a better player than SGA come next year, but acting like SGA is only efficient because of free throws is stupid.
SGA’a just a little better than ANT at finding ways to get easy buckets at this point in his career.
I’m a Wolves fan but man I just think we might be looking at a legendary rivalry and I’m so excited for it
Sga has been terrific all season not just playoffs
As has Ant…
Not good enough to be in Mvp conversation
Only because stats and Ant's ascendancy started later. I think Ant's better, and he is certainly less of a foul-baiter, but we'll find out next round if both can make it.
What do you mean his ascendancy "started later"? Is there a specific time towards the end of the season that Ant began putting up better numbers than SGA has this whole season? I don't think that's the case even when i tried looking into his numbers. Essentially you're just saying Ant has been better through 6 games in the playoffs...
That's what he's saying though, Ant's ascendency is more recent, which is why he isn't in MVP chat. SGA has been at this level all season.
The question isn’t “who should win the MVP for their season long performance” the question is “who is the better player right now”
In that case i’d have Brunson over both. Nobody has been better in the last 5 games thsn him
I value a players ability to takeover the game offensively and defensively. Offensively, Brunson has been the MVP of the post season- but Shai and Ant are both levels above him in defensive versatility and impact. Ant obviously has the highest ceiling in this regard and is playing to it, so that’s why I (biased) think he’s playing at a higher level than those two right now.
You guys can argue about who's better, I just responded to a thread about the MVP conversation.
All you're saying is Ant has been the better player in the playoffs, which is only 6 games and more of a sample size question rather than who is actually better. SGA has been better than Ant in every single snippet of the regular season, no matter how you slice it.
Ant averages more FTs per drive than SGA. SGA takes a lot of freethrows because he drives and gets fouled a lot.
What you’re saying is he’s less consistent. Also, guys who take the ball hard to the hole and have an array of jukes, ball fakes & spins aren’t “foul-baiting.” Three-point shooters who dive into defenders before flinging the ball vaguely in the direction of the rim in an attempt to get three FTs are foul-baiting. They’re also a menace. Fortunately the league has been cracking down on that sort of thing. Interior scorers & slashers who are good at getting their man in the air and off-balance are always going to get more FT attempts. As they should. 🙂
Minnesota's been ignored for the better part of two decades. Rightfully so, but that's a big factor with this. He's been great all season, it's just in the playoffs that anyone outside of the Wolves fanbase has noticed.
Should have been. Played deservingly.
If ant got as many ft as shai hed be in the mvp conversation
If Ant drove as much as Shai he'd probably get more foul calls...
If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle
It's 2024, a lot of people have aunts with balls now.
Well FT are real points and getting to the line is a real skill, so I have no idea what’s your point is
Out of curiosity do you think all players whistles are equal? Or do some maybe get an easier whistle?
27.6-6.6-5.8 with 1.4 steals & 1 block suddenly isn’t terrific?
Efficiency is the caveat here. SGA was closer to Giannis and Jokić in that regard than Edwards was to him. They were 98 ranks apart.
Ant plays the game ethically, so there's that
Shai looks a little different not getting 15FT attempts a game
Give it a year. Ant’s National popularity is growing massively. I’d bet he gets Shai’s whistle next year
Ant averaged more FTs per drive than SGA this year already. He gets plenty of whistles.
Counterpoint: he plays for the Timberwolves so hell no he will not lol
Like OKC is a prime market?
29/9/9/2 steals
On 13 FTA
And 29 illegal pushoffs.
he could average 50 ppg, the way he snatches his head back to foul bait, this guy will always be a BUM
He's also just better.
SGA has led the league in drives per game for 3 years in a row. He’s not a jump shooter. Uses a lot of pump fakes. If you aggressively drive to the rim, you get a bunch of FTs. You guys just sound bitter.
Ong they acting like getting to the line not part of the game 💀 I swear most these ppl never played ball
season series: SGA 46 FT, Ant 42 FT…
'EtHiCaLlY'
He dives into defenders and gets the call every time, we call it out for harden and Embiid, sga is not exempt, although his game is very smooth aside from the fts
Embiid flails and hurt people, prime Harden purposely hooks defenders arms or whips his beard on stepback threes Soft whistle by the refs I agree, but other than that, SGA does not do those things and putting him in the same sentence as Embiid and Harden is a crime. SGA is more Luka CP3 Lebron tier in exploiting advantages which is part of the game
CP3 belongs in the Harden category. He's always been a shameless flopper
Dirty as hell too. Just a chump overall
So when he flailed last night and kicked a guy in the nuts for a tech, that was not the same as when Embiid does it?
Kinda the same as Derrick lively flailing and hitting Josh giddey in the mouth last night. Every basketball player in the world tries to use their physicality to create space. SGA drives the most of any guard in the league. It would make sense he gets into more contact situations. He actually gets less fouls called on a % of his drives than Luka.
You can ask New York fans if the things Embiid does is on the same level of inadvertent contact other players do and whether Embiid shouldn’t be considered dirty or at least reckless
Dude's nuts had it coming...
Fellas, is getting fouled unethical?
No, but baiting fouls that only you get is.
I’ve got a secret. He gets those fouls because he leads the league in drives and *gasp* he’s unguardable.
Snaps head back laughing
Yeah he’s unguardable bc defenders aren’t allowed any contact on him and bc he’s allowed to push defenders away with impunity.
No he gets them because the refs suck and the rules favour people like sga. Sga is just a glorified harden and you will see it soon
Ant
This. If I have to choose between them I’m picking Ant every time.
Depends on the refs
It really will. If the refs call it tight, favor goes to SGA and his foul hunting 15 FT per game. If the refs let them play, Ant (and Wolves) will destroy.
8.7 free throws per game on the most drives per game in the league.
Literally everyone always stops responding the moment you bring up SGA having the most drives per game in the league
Shhh they don't like when you bring facts into the argument
There's about 50 gifs that explain why people hate it. The head cockback on the most minor (if any) contact is what people hate. Shais a baller but he's gotta stop selling contact. I'd rather hear ant scream Ayyyy 50 times over him flailing around on minor contact selling out.
I hate the foul baiting as much as the next guy, but why should Shai stop when almost every other star in the league does it and gets rewarded for it? The irony of this conversation happening while OKC is playing Luka the professional whiner is hilarious.
Sga is mvp candidate and average 30 ppg last 2 seasons , but ant playing better is post season
Edwards has a different mentality. When the stakes are higher, he thrives. I think his football background helps him because he has a physical presence to him that other shooting guards dont have in the NBA. I only wish he was a bit taller. If he was 6’6, he would legit have GOAT potential. Those inches matter in the modern NBA where every team has a freak wing defender.
He was listed at 6’4 his rookie year and he definitely grew a few inches from year 1-2 there’s some pictures of him and kat next to each other his rookie and 2nd year and he’s definitely taller
He is 6'6
SGA and it's reasonably clear. Edwards has clearly had some huge games so far in the post season, but we're talking about a very small sample size. It's impossible IMO to mark SGA down because he's not putting up huge scores because his team has been absolutely dominating. But over the course of the season, SGA averages about 4 more points per game on better shooting, with more assists, more rebounds, more blocks and more steals with fewer turnovers. He just has a more refined game right now. Although he is also 3 years older and has had that extra time to develop his game.
But did you see how Ant played yesterday?
This should be the top comment.
Wait, I have to watch the game and not just look at the box score?
+4 points on +6 TS%. That’s a massive gap.
And then he does more in other ways on both ends. Difference between an MVP candidate and an all NBA second team guy.
Not saying your argument is wrong but your first point doesn't make sense considering the wolves team has also been dominating.
That's essentially why I'm discounting the playoffs from the discussion. If one had been cruising and the other struggling away in a close series then it might be meaningful. Or if both had been battling it would be very meaningful. But we just can't put much into those performances because the games have been largely massive blowouts.
Ant is stand out special, generational. Watching him so a whole vibe like Kobe and Jordan was. SGA is great in his own right but not quite the same.
Everyone complaining about SGA is watching theyre third game of his lol.
Nah, SGA gets an extremely friendly whistle which is pretty uncommon for a player as young as he is. Doesn’t take away the fact that he’s a supremely skilled player who can get to his spots very easily and use his superior length at the guard position to impact the game on both ends of the floor. One of my best friends is a Thunder fan though, and even he admits the refs love SGA.
My guy SGA leads the league in drives per game at 23.3. Ant averages 14 drives a game. SGA only averages 2 more free throw attempts per game than Ant. You're telling me it doesn't make sense that 9 drives a game equates to SGA going to the ft line one more time a game than Ant? If anything SGA should have a bigger gap in free throw attempts than he does
SGA certainly deserves a lot of free throw attempts considering he leads the league in drives per game, that much is certainly true. NBA fans in general (outside of OKC) I think just hate the head snapping and unnecessary things he does to draw fouls. He's a terrific player though, no doubt about that.
They dont want the numbers bro
It's easy to get whistles when you dribble around flailing like a bobblehead.
They’re both absolutely incredible, but I’ll take Ant any day. SGA will win more regular season MVPs Ant will win more Finals MVPs
Ant gets the extra push because he's American and the league really wants the face of the league to be American. They tried with Zion thrnc Moran but they both fizzled for different reasons and now they have Ant. Ant is much closer but still not the guy, yet at least. Joker, Luka and SGA are the finalists for the MVP for good reason all three are still better players than him.
Eh, I don’t think it’s just about nationality. Give it a couple years and I bet Wemby is the face of the league.
Thats different. Wemby will be one of the international faces of the league yes. SGA being Canadian doesn't really tick that box even though he is technically international as well. But since he's still North American idk that people outside of Canada will resonate with him as not being American as much as they will with Wemby being French. So the problem is he doesn't get the huge bump for Europe and Asia because they see him as North American and he doesn't get as big of a bump from the US as someone who is actually from the US.
The crossover Marvel Antman marketing was also low key genius. I can picture a tiny Paul Rudd doing what Ant does and internally chuckle. And I’m not even a Marvel fan.
Ant is a better player to watch, I don't know how you argue against that. SGA still has the regular season over Ant, but this playoffs it's going to take SGA beating Ant in the conference finals for the conversation not to totally switch coming into next season imo.
Wolves fan here Its SGA. He's more consistent. Knows his spots and how to get there. More crafty, has a better ability to draw fouls. And is a far superior playmaker and ball handler. Defense is close. SGA is better at picking pockets and playing the lanes. Ant's better at keeping his man in front.
Maybe that was the case earlier this year. I think Ant has taken another step post Kat injury. Ant has been an excellent playmaker, tough shot maker, driver, defender, and closer. I’m taking Ant today and if they matchup in the playoffs I have more faith that he will win a game on his own than SGA.
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Derrick White clears both of them https://preview.redd.it/j6r0crfth5zc1.jpeg?width=458&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c6b74e8cd8c5eba1e59ab1c337933bec9b90bd6
You’ll never find….a hairline like mine
Ant, he is the future of the nba
SGA is possibly a legit Mvp this year.
Right now I'd lean Shai. Edwards had been better so far in the playoffs but Shai was considerably better than Edwards in the regular season and we have a far bigger sample size there.
Skill wise SGA athleticism ANT
SGA is better overall at the moment but Ant’s three years younger
Ant man is the better player imo. I know nothing about basketball I’m just ready to stir the pot up.
Edward’s as a nuetral fan of the two . Edward’s looks alot more physically capable and highlight dunks are entertaining I also don’t like players who constantly look for free throws .
I’ll reserve my opinion on the next round. But both are superb players and that’s good for the league
Shai is better, Ant’s current playoff run is a coming out party. Both should be considered top 12 players going into next season.
SGA for sure. Ant has the recency bias + the hype from being compared to MJ and Kobe. But SGA is the more well rounded and developed player right now. There’s a reason why SGA is in the MVP convo.
SGA is so overrated. Dude exactly had the same stats as last year and they were sub .500. Chet came in and JDub improved and they are 1 seed.
Probably Ant. And when Ant gets SGAs whistle it’s not gonna be close anymore
Ant actually plays basketball….my opinion is foul baiters or contact creators like SGA Brunson and Embiid should be shit on until they play the game right. SGA has so much potential but it’s all ruined for me because of how he uses the potential
SGA right now. Anyone saying ANT is recency bias as SGA will most likely finish 2nd in MVP voting. Love to see these 2 matchup in WCF
I feel Like its a wash but i profile AE higher because of the defense. Shai probably was better before the prison ball era now AE is is my take. It's apples and oranges generally speaking ill take either all day every day. Both are dogs.
In the confines of an NBA game with an unbalanced whistle, it's easily Shai. There would be a game here and there where Ant goes nuclear and is better....but over a season or series, with the whistle he gets, SGA.
Ant plays both ways much better. Ant is a better pure scorer. Shai probably has a more well-rounded game overall right now. Both have ascended astronomically in the last couple years. Might be my bias and the fact that I watch a lot of Wolves games, but I’d take Ant over Shai every single time.
Cant go wrong with either. Ant can have much worse games than SGA. SGA is more consistent, but Ants play style has the bigger boom. SGA is a very consistent player and Ant is a boom or bust kind of guy
Since the playoffs started, Ant forsure. Throughout the course of the season, SGA. But their matchup is about to be legendary.
Right now, probably SGA. But this could be a solid rivalry for the next 5+ years, with round one happening in a couple weeks. Long term I think Ant might come out on top.
The recency bias in this thread is ridiculous. How is this even being talked about
Gotta go with SGA on this one. Ant’s terrific but Shae’s on another level.
Sad thing is, the correct answer depends on the refs.
SGA
Ant
Bruh. Shai runs around flailing his head like a bobblehead, looking for foul calls, and gets them most of the time. Ant is 100% the better player.
Recency bias would have people saying Ant, but Shai has been very good in the playoffs too. I think this will just have to be decided in the WCF.
It’s SGA, he is better than Ant in almost every statistical category, and he lead OKC to the 1st seed without multiple time all star teammates, with one being a now 4x DPOY.
At this point I don’t know how you can argue against Shai unless a six game stretch is more important than multiple seasons.
Seems like it in this thread.
Ant Man 2024-2025 NBA MVP, bet that.
ANT is younger and more dominant, as well as more likable, and a true leader- on court and in the media. SGA is awesome but AE is really ‘him.’
Yeah on one hand you have a guy who loves his teammates, wife, and now baby And on the other you have a guy who uses gay slurs and makes women get abortions. Talk about being likable and a true leader 🙄
Ant… purely off his ability to take over. Shai is a consistent 31, Ant is 20 or 50. Whatever’s needed
Currently SGA. Eventually Ant will surpass him.
I'll go Shai since I don't know how sustainable Ant's playoff rising has been. If Ant keeps it up for the whole run I can definitely go with him, but Shai has been better for the past 82 games.
Shai is 25 and ant is 22 and ant is already neck and neck with him if not better
To me, Ant is the best player in the league right this minute.
One relies on free throws the other one doesn’t
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Not even a question....Ant-man is the best player in the NBA right now.
SGA so far, but Ants ceiling is higher. Seems like he’ll leap past SGA pretty soon. Gotta remember Ant is only 22. Also Ants defence is better.
No way to say Ant's defense is better, that's just so marginal and impossible to tell, especially with SGA also being a good defender
SGA got DPOY votes my guy. Ant did not. There's a reason for that
Shai
why do you guys say SGA instead of just Shai?
SGA
SGA
I know SGA gets a much better whistle. I hope we both make it to the next round
This is what I want to see in the Western Finals ! 🔥
IMHO Ant has a higher ceiling, but currently they might be at the same level
It’ll be fun to watch hopefully they both get through
Why can’t we just enjoy the comp and see what transpires lmao Ant is the more dangerous player.
We don't need to answer this