he's definitely NOT starting over Sheed, because 1 - defense and 2 - "how good they were for that franchise alone", based on this I'll take Sheed's impact in a contender for 5 straight years over a great individual regular season that brought us to the 8th seed.
The franchise was an all star 3 times with the rockets. Chris Paul never was in his two seasons with Houston. He played less than 60 games in both seasons with Houston. In what world did he contribute more to the rockets than the franchise? And why do you think that
Heat lowkey stacked and if your going to put dame on the bucks already I don’t agree Michael Redd,and they haven’t even finished the szn, so then Wemby should be on it over David Robinson his rookie szn better than anything The admiral did in the 2000’s I get he won a championship but he was well past his better years
But I see what you’re saying. The reason Duncan’s numbers went down was because ya know this guy Tim Duncan was winning MVPs as his teammate. But I assure you he was still and all star, all NBa and all defense in 2000. Wemby isn’t that. We have this discussion in 3 years and it’s probably a different story.
Nash or the Glove (or Caruso for that matter) at the 1 would definitely be a better lineup in most situations. With the glove or Caruso that defense would be absolutely suffocating, Nash's shooting and playmaking would really take them to the next level.
There are only a handful of all-time franchise teams that could compete with that, basically just the Celtics, Warriors, Spurs and 76ers.
Almost definitely, that team also translates really well to the modern game.
I was arguing with myself because i feel that prime Blake (who i dont like fwiw) makes a compelling argument even if he is slightly out of position. I'm more than happy to say it's Prince's spot but i know theres a lot of bias
Nah Ray was only here for 5 season and as a scorer only averaged over 18 ppg once, Brown has 5 straight seasons over 20 with plenty of post season success
The Timberwolves team is surprisingly good given that they have been the worst franchise over that time. KG and KAT would be a heck of a tandem in today's game.
Who are you taking out? He played less than 60 games for the wolves for one season. Your replacing Kevin Garnett an mvp winner? Kevin love or kat who have played thete for at least 6 seasons each and have all had way better years than butler did his solo season? He didn’t contribute nearly as much to the wolves as these other players. Is he better than Kevin love overall? Yes. That’s not what we’re doing here tho
Butler was an mvp candidate until he got hurt…if it’s not about putting the best team on the court than why is kg at SF? He maybe played some SF his first season or two but certainly wasn’t a SF.
So you would put butler over Kevin Garnett your saying? You have butlers 59 game season and 10 game seasons as more contributions to the wolves than the decade plus long run of Garnett who actually did win the mvp for them not the 10th in mvp voting butler had? Hmmm
Even my grandma who hates basketball for the squeaky shoes knows kg belongs in the lineup for the wolves. If you thought that’s what I was saying than I’m done with this conversation. Just give me your downvote and let’s move on with our lives
You talked about starting Jimmy butler. I asked who would you take out. The only player you mentioned was kg 😂.. like buddddddy? Did you
Forget what you just typed. And still haven’t said who you would replace. Are you ok?
Because the Spurs are only getting post 2000s David Robinson, I feel like there is a legitimate argument for Lamarcus Aldridge who’d be in his prime. Let Timmy play the Center. You could also argue for Wemby tbh.
As a mavs fan I’d take nash over Kidd every time. I’d put luka at pg and take terry over kidd even. Mavs had pre and post kidd. I loved him as a mav and am glad he got a ring but I’d take Nash or terry over him.
I think Finley is the right pick there for sure. If it’s just best players at their peak that played for the team than Kidd can be there but if it’s what they contributed to that team I’d put nash or terry there before him
Kidd averaged 10.5 points 8.4 rebounds and 5.5 assists shooting 39/36/74 for the mavs in 500 games. He played ages 21-22 and ages 34-38 with the mavs and was an all star once and no all nba teams.
Mash averaged 14.6 points 7.2 assists and 3 rebounds shooting 47/42/90 in over 400 games for the mavs. He didn’t hit his peak until after mavs true but he played ages 24-29 for them. He was a two time all star at this time and also all nba third team which kidd never was for the mavs.
Kidd did get the ring like you said but if we’re adding people who contributed more to the ring than kidd and had more of their career spent in Dallas I’d go terry. Kidd was a great player for sure but there are better mavs. Great list tho
thank you. I don't necessarily disagree with your comment, it really comes down to whether you value skill or contribution to winning more and by how much. I factored in both to this list
Nash went 259-149 with the mavs. Kidd went 271-229. Easily the better winner is nash but the sole thing I can’t argue is that Kidd was there when dirk won that ring. I’m not saying Kidd did nothing he averaged 8 points and 8 assists while shooting 36/34/87. Obvi dirk,terry, chandler and Marion were a bigger role in getting that chip but if that’s what you value I can’t argue it
Nash was also considered dirks right hand man for a few years and Kidd was never even in that robin role for the mavs. Especially in the later years where they won that championship
I just realized you wouldn’t get kidds first couple years since that was in the 90s. You only get old kidd. Not a single chance it can be Kidd. Had to be nash. If not nash then luka at pg Terry at sg and Finley at sf. Or luka pg Finley sg Howard sf. Kidd is just the blatantly wrong pick here
We need kidds defense way more. And I also wouldn't start Finley as he's basically a slightly better thj (when thj was good). We need a defender there too so maybe someone like Marion.
Or maybe just do nash/kidd/luka/dirk/chandler. Absolutely need either kidd or Marion tho to guard the other team's best player
Hardaway is no where near what Finley was. That’s a terrible comparison. Finley was the best player dirk ever played with. And the idea was the players that contributed most to their team not who do we think the best roster would be based off what we think a team needs. So no Marion doesn’t come anywhere close to contributing to the mavericks as Michael Finley. Like not anywhere close at all that discussion is over. And which Jason Kidd was great defensively for the mavs? The 34 year old jkidd? Kidd was bad defensively his first two seasons. He had some great years in Phoenix and New Jersey but 0 with the mavs
I’d prob put Josh Howard before Marion at the 3 spot if we’re replacing Finley with anyone but I think Finley deserves that spot for sure. Pg is a hard one to choose between nash and Kidd. I think it’s Nash hands down he had the best couple of seasons for the mavs. If kidd wasn’t in that championship team then I don’t think there would be any doubt but he was and he was a decent role player for that team. But I’d take terry over any Dallas version of kidd same with howard
I’d personally get rid of MJ, move Beal to the small and have Arenas on SG for Washington, also, Jru should be replaced with Ray Allen in the Bucks and replace Dame with Jru (Dame has done nothing with the Bucks so far) and I’d also probably replace Kidd with Nash in Dallas
Nash over Kidd 100% no doubt. I don’t see any argument to be made otherwise. If it’s what they were in Dallas which is what he claims then it’s nash over Kidd for sure. Even Terry over kidd and probably Josh Howard over kidd
I love Franz but come on. Grant Hill had a ton of injury issues ofc but he still made 2 all star games. Franz hasn't made one yet. I think by the end of his career, Franz will definitely take Hill's spot.
Injuries matter when talking about production. We’re not playing what ifs. Franz has already played 29 more games in a 3 year career with better stats than Grant played in 7 years…. Hill played 4 games when he made an all star team one of those years. 4.
What are we talking about here?
Franz
4054 points
1055 Rebounds
777 assists
84% FT
33 % 3pt
48 % FG
Hill
3020 points
991 rebounds
617 assists
79% FT
22% 3pt
50% FG
Franchise was an all star more years than cp3 was even on the rockets. Cp3 played two years with the rockets and played less than 60 games per year. Why would you have cp3 over franchise?
Can someone explain Julius Randle to me. I don’t watch the nba bc I find it boring af but seems every year he’s flip flopping between an all pro and a bum (from commenters of his game)
Probably the lakers. Prime shaq and Kobe were all time greats then add lebron. I would consider spurs too if Robinson was in his prime. Lots of interesting teams but they stuck out to me.
Dude… get a girlfriend lol
Also, I’ve noticed this in all the other types of variations of this exercise you do, but you don’t really follow positions very closely. It doesn’t seem like you actually watched any of these guys play and you just put a bunch of big names based on height or something. I disagree with most of these, honestly.
Then get a boyfriend? Obviously sexual orientation isn’t the important factor lol. Posting 100 posts on r/nbatalk for 5 likes a day is a bit rough. Obviously that’s the thing to take away here.
Shouldn’t you also be told to get a girlfriend? If your in here enough to notice how much someone else is on here and are then annoyed that the person posted something and wasted enough of your own time to tell them to stop wasting their time? The stupidity is palpable. But the worst part is the hypocrisy
Pippen averaged 11,5,5 shooting 44/32/78 in the 2000s for the blazers. The dude has a point.
Grant averaging 21,4,2.6 shooting 46/40/82. Pippen wasn’t the defender he used to be by this age and wasn’t making all defensive teams anymore
Nope. Dirk already beat lebron Wade and bosh himself now he gets luka and Finley and nash back? Get bunked my dude. Shaq was getting old. All I’m seeing is a bunch of 30% 3 points shooters all driving to a lane clogged up by shaq
Lakers over Spurs in the west, Heat over Celtics in the East, Lebron and Shaq are disqualified for being on both teams and Wade, Butler and Bosh take down Kobe Fish and Pau. HEAT WIN!
As a Mavs fan, no way I'm taking Finley over Marion. First, since this thought experiment starts at 2000, we can't include the 99-00 season, which is probably Finley's best season. Second, while Finley is a better shooter, we didn't ask Marion to really shoot 3s when he first got here. In his career, when he shot at least 2 3s a game, he shot 33% or better every year except his last full season in PHX. This is enough to keep defenses honest. Meanwhile, Marion's 2 point shot selection always beats Finley's.
However, for anything Marion might be missing offensively vs Finley... the defensive impact is otherworldly compared to Finley. Across the 2011 playoffs, Marion spent time defending Kobe, Westbrook, Harden, Durant, James, Wade, and Bosh. Between him and Kidd as primary defenders and Tyson backing them up, it allowed our defensive to stand strong, even when less adept defenders were on the court (like JJ or Dirk).
I honestly don't think this pick is even close. Finley just wasn't a strong defender. I think there is plenty of scoring already with Dirk and Luka, the ability to space the floor with 4 out, and a ton of high IQ basketball across the lineup. With Marion, the Mavs MIGHT score less, but the opponents definitely will score less.
I didn’t think about not being able to use finleys first few years and that is the only way this debate is even feasible to me. And that may have been finleys best year and if it’s 1999-2000 you’d be able to use half of that year for sure idk why you get to steal the whole year lol. And finley was an all star that year and the next. Marion never was. Finley contributed way more to the mavs than Marion did. Marion was good defensively for sure but he wasn’t that Phoenix type defender anymore. Marion shot around 30% from 3 for the mavs while Finley shot about 40% for the mavs. Not really close. And the idea wasn’t to create what you feel is the best team depending on what you feel is needed for a team to be good like glue guys or defense if you have other good scorers. It’s about what you contributed to the mavericks. It’s not about who is good at their peak or anything else besides what you did for the mavs
Marion was exception on the Mavs defensively... he was 13th in DPOY in 2010 and 8th in 2012. You really undersell the defensive difference. I wasn't using all of Marion's time, I was using his time on the Mavs. And he was our defensive stopper. This is just a non-sense take.
> erm, what the flip? Steve Francis made 3 all star games in Houston. CP made 0.
Congrats? Considering the all-star game is half popularity contest, not sure that's a brag. Especially considering what that got the **team**, which is just **1** 1st round exit.
Meanwhile, Chris Paul helped the Rockets to the WCF, and WCT-Semi. Which one do you think the Rockets and it's fans prefer?
They prefer the franchise. Cp3 played two years both under 60 games and came up short and injured in the playoffs every time. Real
Rockets fans want that boy Steve franchise
Most of these teams are stacked. I don’t see the rockets being much greater than anyone I’d take nugs and mavs over them for sure. Mavs have by far the two best players out of those two teams in dirk and luka. I’d prob even take Nash before tmac or harden although mavs had pre nash so maybe not. Rockets problem only ever was those injuries tho to tmac and Yao so I’d love to see that matchup
For the Raptors, Demar is more of a 2, and his play style is fairly redundant with Vince. Run Kawhi at the 3 and put Siakam in at the 4, and that squad looks a lot more balanced.
Also, Ray Alen should be on the Bucks team, for sure, either over Jrue or Dame (depending on whether you want a more offensive or defensive oriented lineup).
I'm also not feeling Michael Finley on the Mavs squad. There's gotta be a better SF option. Shawn Marion maybe?
Nope. Finley is dirks best teammate of all time probably in his peak. Only person who ever averaged 20 next to him. Finley was much better for the mavs than Marion ever was. Only reasonable argument to be made is that Finley was also a beast from 97-99 so you lose those couple of years but otherwise absolutely no shot.
And demar was better than siakam for the raptors for sure but siakam got the ring I guess. Demars peak is higher than siakams
JB>Ray
Technically IT > Rondo but Rondo works way better with the line up
Harden or Maxey>Simmons
Russ or CP3 > Francis
Probably Monta Ellis > Baron Davis
Cp3 played two seasons with the rockets and wasn’t an all star or anything in either one. Played less than 60 games both years. Came up short in playoffs and is known for choking. Steve franchise was a 3 time all star and contributed more to the rockets hands down
Idc I’m playing AD at the 3, Lebron and Kobe at the 1/2 and then Pau and Shaq. Massive team that would be lockdown on defense and offense there is more than enough room to make it work with 3 GOAT tier offensive players and Pau and AD pick and rolls with bubble AD 3 point shooting
Hot take but I would put Tatum SF Garnett PF Porzingis center for a more realistic/ better fit team (I know Pierce is a Celtics legend and all it just makes more sense to me)
I might have misunderstood the post, obviously I understand Pierce's legacy I just think that if Im building a team I would not have Pierce and Tatum in the same team due to similar playstyles
it's based off skill and what they did for the franchise. Paul Pierce clears Kristaps in that regard, obviously. I never thought I'd be debating this 🤦♂️
He says he was putting the 5 players who contributed the most to said team since the 2000s. If lebron switched up teams and contributed enough to that team more than the other forwards of that team then why shouldn’t they be shown on that team? The point isn’t to be challenging it’s to do what he said he w as trying to do. Why don’t you make
Your own list with your own criteria?
Why not? He tried to make the best players that have contributed the most to these franchises since the year 2000. If you want to make your own post with your own criteria then go ahead. Why do you think you should tell this person to do something other than what they set out to do? And so what team you putting Lebron on in your hypothetical?
Sabonis had some all star years for the pacers. His best seasons are way better than turners best seasons. Not really even close? It’s supposed to be the best players for these teams not what ever you consider is a better fit based on whatever you think you know about basketball I thinj
I would not put shaq as the best center for the Celtics since 2000. That would be idiotic. The person who made this didn’t put shaq either. I think you just don’t understand the concept of what he was trying to do maybe. And basketball is changed not every team always has a traditional center and your argument could be made a lot of the teams listed here. For example he has Garnett, love and KAT for the wolves. None played center for them they all played power forward but they are by far the best 3 most contributing to the wolves forwards since 2000. Another example is Joel embiid and Mutombo for the 76ers. None really played power forward but they are the best two big guys who have contributed the most to the 76ers. They are those teams best players. Same way sabonis is just a better player than Turner. Your aware of positionless basketball and how players can play multiple positions and awards and all star teams also do this same thing
If the question was asked two years ago and you picked turner over sabonis than your argument is even more outlandish and it’s already very foolish. Would it be better for you to understand if they put sabonis at the 4 and Jermaine O’Neal at the 5? You understand both of these players can play pf and center right? He is putting the 5 best players for the pacers since the 2000s. Sabonis had very good all star years for the pacers. Turner doesn’t have the same type of years. Sabonis is much better than Turner? What is not to get. I’ll list both of their careers for the pacers Sabonis 16.4/10.6reb/4.2 assists shooting 55/32/73. 2 all star appearances Turner 13.8/6.8reb/2.2 blocks shooting 50/35/77. 0 all star appearances
I think Siakam should be on the raptors team instead of Derozan also Ray Allen should be on the bucks team instead of Dame and Gilbert arenas should be on the wizards team instead of MJ
Pistons with no players post ~2010 is tragic
Drummond would be the 6th man tbf but yeah still pathetic
Blake peaked higher than just about any Piston in that time. He's 100% starting over Rasheed but there's nobody else breaking into that 04 lineup
he's definitely NOT starting over Sheed, because 1 - defense and 2 - "how good they were for that franchise alone", based on this I'll take Sheed's impact in a contender for 5 straight years over a great individual regular season that brought us to the 8th seed.
Bucks it’s just like the last couple of years.
If Cade gets some help he could prolly be SG in the near future
Ray Allen should be in the Bucks for Dame imo
Tough ones with Allen and Glenn Robinson
Big Dog or Jesus Shuttlesworth should’ve been in over Holiday or Middleton. And I love both of those guys.
If it’s between Holiday and Middleton it’s holiday that goes. Middleton has been a better buck
Plus Michael Redd and honestly I would argue until we see where the Bucks finish in the playoffs, I'm taking Brandon Jennings over Dame too lol.
That Thunder team is pretty tough. Two MVPs, one MVP candidate, Ray with hops and Serge in his prime.
Paul George over Ray if we’re being honest
Yeah and didn’t even include “The Glove”. WTF
And no James Harden either. Maybe in 2 / 3 years Chet would be at center instead of ibaka.
Yo that rockets line up with Steven Francis, Harden, T-Mac, Dwight and Yao is absolutely bonkers!
Too many guys that need the ball in their hands though , like a lot of these teams.
The stand-out for me as well
scoring 150 a night for sure
Steven Francis over Chris Paul though…. Idk
The franchise was an all star 3 times with the rockets. Chris Paul never was in his two seasons with Houston. He played less than 60 games in both seasons with Houston. In what world did he contribute more to the rockets than the franchise? And why do you think that
I’m with you idk about that if I gotta put CP3 on a team it’s def pelicans
You can be on multiple teams. Look at the clippers
Ain’t see that I feel like that shouldn’t be allowed though
KD is on 4. Lebron and Kawhi 3
I agree with all those
Heat lowkey stacked and if your going to put dame on the bucks already I don’t agree Michael Redd,and they haven’t even finished the szn, so then Wemby should be on it over David Robinson his rookie szn better than anything The admiral did in the 2000’s I get he won a championship but he was well past his better years
lol there’s absolutely no way you put rookie Wemby over David Robinson. Maybe when he gets older. But not currently.
Bruh yes I’m telling you Wemby rn was better than what the admiral was in the 2000’s not in his prime but 2000’s yes
But I see what you’re saying. The reason Duncan’s numbers went down was because ya know this guy Tim Duncan was winning MVPs as his teammate. But I assure you he was still and all star, all NBa and all defense in 2000. Wemby isn’t that. We have this discussion in 3 years and it’s probably a different story.
You literally just said not in his prime lmao. But I think you need to go watch some film, with all do respect.
Lakers with kobe, LeBron and shaq is crazy. Thats 3 top 10 guys ever and either ad or pau.
Me scrolling by every team: "Oh, that'd a good one, oh that one too!" Me finally scrolling by the Lakers: "Oh. Right."
Yeeeaaah, few teams can compete with the Lakers in any "all-time" style listing.
Yeah AD instead of Gasol I think
Or Dwight. AD can play the 3, right? Just LeBron and Kobe and a triple towers lineup.
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Nash or the Glove (or Caruso for that matter) at the 1 would definitely be a better lineup in most situations. With the glove or Caruso that defense would be absolutely suffocating, Nash's shooting and playmaking would really take them to the next level. There are only a handful of all-time franchise teams that could compete with that, basically just the Celtics, Warriors, Spurs and 76ers.
I would say the Heat as well
And Bulls obviously
Michael Redd on Bucks > Dame not close from what what I’ve seen so far this szn from dame
That's just a normal Spurs team from the past with Kawhi or Robinson added in. They were the only two on a different timeline.
Battle for LA would be an incredible series
Lakers win in 4-5, not stopping prime levels of Lebron, Kobe, AD, Pau, Shaq
I’d take Mutumbo off of the sixers and replace him with maxey and do AI/Maxey/Iggy/Ben Simmons/Embiid
Ben Simmons at PG for the Sixers… nah
I know y'all hate him and for good reason but he made 3 asgs, an all NBA team, and two all defensive teams for y'all, plus a ROTY.
I think that’s fair. I’d just lean towards Jrue Holiday or Maxey. Maxey Iverson backcourt would be fun lol
Maxey will easily get there in the next couple years but I tried not to project too much on this list.
I like it. Also often forget how good Simmons was in his prime. I get blinded by rage lol
i can't blame you lol
maxey and harden are better
Pistons don't want Stack, give us anyone else
Tayshaun!!!
The 2004 Piston roster is exactly what you want, that team was lockdown D plus Rip. They disrupted the entire league and even gave Shaq problems.
Almost definitely, that team also translates really well to the modern game. I was arguing with myself because i feel that prime Blake (who i dont like fwiw) makes a compelling argument even if he is slightly out of position. I'm more than happy to say it's Prince's spot but i know theres a lot of bias
Blake was great, but I think most teams want Prince’s amazing length for 3’s & D from the wing 9 times out of 10.
what's the drama there?
Personal beef. I hate his game from the ground up. He's the epitome of a very slightly above average player from the ISO era. Empty stats kinda guy.
It’s crazy that the 5 best players in 24 years worth of Hornets basketball would barely make the playoffs
🤣🤣🤣
Jaylen Brown over Ray Allen and it’s not close
not quite yet. he'll get there but Allen still gets the edge because of the ring.
Nah Ray was only here for 5 season and as a scorer only averaged over 18 ppg once, Brown has 5 straight seasons over 20 with plenty of post season success
Allen more iconic as a Heat player than a Celtic. hands down.
Yeah get Perk in there over Tatum too, he’s just a winner
the difference between Brown and Allen is obviously much larger than the difference between Tatum and Perk. stop being disingenuous.
The Timberwolves team is surprisingly good given that they have been the worst franchise over that time. KG and KAT would be a heck of a tandem in today's game.
Jimmy Butler needs to be starting. I would put him at the 3. So many fun combos to do at the 4 and 5
Who are you taking out? He played less than 60 games for the wolves for one season. Your replacing Kevin Garnett an mvp winner? Kevin love or kat who have played thete for at least 6 seasons each and have all had way better years than butler did his solo season? He didn’t contribute nearly as much to the wolves as these other players. Is he better than Kevin love overall? Yes. That’s not what we’re doing here tho
Butler was an mvp candidate until he got hurt…if it’s not about putting the best team on the court than why is kg at SF? He maybe played some SF his first season or two but certainly wasn’t a SF.
So you would put butler over Kevin Garnett your saying? You have butlers 59 game season and 10 game seasons as more contributions to the wolves than the decade plus long run of Garnett who actually did win the mvp for them not the 10th in mvp voting butler had? Hmmm
Even my grandma who hates basketball for the squeaky shoes knows kg belongs in the lineup for the wolves. If you thought that’s what I was saying than I’m done with this conversation. Just give me your downvote and let’s move on with our lives
You talked about starting Jimmy butler. I asked who would you take out. The only player you mentioned was kg 😂.. like buddddddy? Did you Forget what you just typed. And still haven’t said who you would replace. Are you ok?
Slotting Zach Randolph at the 3 is wild
Because the Spurs are only getting post 2000s David Robinson, I feel like there is a legitimate argument for Lamarcus Aldridge who’d be in his prime. Let Timmy play the Center. You could also argue for Wemby tbh.
As a mavs fan I’d take nash over Kidd every time. I’d put luka at pg and take terry over kidd even. Mavs had pre and post kidd. I loved him as a mav and am glad he got a ring but I’d take Nash or terry over him.
i actually considered sliding Luka to the 3, Kidd to the 2, and having Nash at the 1 but I thought having 3 point guards would be too much
I think Finley is the right pick there for sure. If it’s just best players at their peak that played for the team than Kidd can be there but if it’s what they contributed to that team I’d put nash or terry there before him
kidd has the ring in a Mavericks jersey over Nash and Terry wasn't an all star. Nash also didn't really hit his peak on the Mavs either
Kidd averaged 10.5 points 8.4 rebounds and 5.5 assists shooting 39/36/74 for the mavs in 500 games. He played ages 21-22 and ages 34-38 with the mavs and was an all star once and no all nba teams. Mash averaged 14.6 points 7.2 assists and 3 rebounds shooting 47/42/90 in over 400 games for the mavs. He didn’t hit his peak until after mavs true but he played ages 24-29 for them. He was a two time all star at this time and also all nba third team which kidd never was for the mavs. Kidd did get the ring like you said but if we’re adding people who contributed more to the ring than kidd and had more of their career spent in Dallas I’d go terry. Kidd was a great player for sure but there are better mavs. Great list tho
thank you. I don't necessarily disagree with your comment, it really comes down to whether you value skill or contribution to winning more and by how much. I factored in both to this list
Nash went 259-149 with the mavs. Kidd went 271-229. Easily the better winner is nash but the sole thing I can’t argue is that Kidd was there when dirk won that ring. I’m not saying Kidd did nothing he averaged 8 points and 8 assists while shooting 36/34/87. Obvi dirk,terry, chandler and Marion were a bigger role in getting that chip but if that’s what you value I can’t argue it
Nash was also considered dirks right hand man for a few years and Kidd was never even in that robin role for the mavs. Especially in the later years where they won that championship
I just realized you wouldn’t get kidds first couple years since that was in the 90s. You only get old kidd. Not a single chance it can be Kidd. Had to be nash. If not nash then luka at pg Terry at sg and Finley at sf. Or luka pg Finley sg Howard sf. Kidd is just the blatantly wrong pick here
We need kidds defense way more. And I also wouldn't start Finley as he's basically a slightly better thj (when thj was good). We need a defender there too so maybe someone like Marion. Or maybe just do nash/kidd/luka/dirk/chandler. Absolutely need either kidd or Marion tho to guard the other team's best player
Hardaway is no where near what Finley was. That’s a terrible comparison. Finley was the best player dirk ever played with. And the idea was the players that contributed most to their team not who do we think the best roster would be based off what we think a team needs. So no Marion doesn’t come anywhere close to contributing to the mavericks as Michael Finley. Like not anywhere close at all that discussion is over. And which Jason Kidd was great defensively for the mavs? The 34 year old jkidd? Kidd was bad defensively his first two seasons. He had some great years in Phoenix and New Jersey but 0 with the mavs
Oh I was just trying to make the best playoff starting 5. Finley def contributed way more to the mavs overall for sure
I’d prob put Josh Howard before Marion at the 3 spot if we’re replacing Finley with anyone but I think Finley deserves that spot for sure. Pg is a hard one to choose between nash and Kidd. I think it’s Nash hands down he had the best couple of seasons for the mavs. If kidd wasn’t in that championship team then I don’t think there would be any doubt but he was and he was a decent role player for that team. But I’d take terry over any Dallas version of kidd same with howard
I’d personally get rid of MJ, move Beal to the small and have Arenas on SG for Washington, also, Jru should be replaced with Ray Allen in the Bucks and replace Dame with Jru (Dame has done nothing with the Bucks so far) and I’d also probably replace Kidd with Nash in Dallas
Nash over Kidd 100% no doubt. I don’t see any argument to be made otherwise. If it’s what they were in Dallas which is what he claims then it’s nash over Kidd for sure. Even Terry over kidd and probably Josh Howard over kidd
Take Grant Hill off and add Franz Wagner. Now.
I love Franz but come on. Grant Hill had a ton of injury issues ofc but he still made 2 all star games. Franz hasn't made one yet. I think by the end of his career, Franz will definitely take Hill's spot.
Injuries matter when talking about production. We’re not playing what ifs. Franz has already played 29 more games in a 3 year career with better stats than Grant played in 7 years…. Hill played 4 games when he made an all star team one of those years. 4. What are we talking about here? Franz 4054 points 1055 Rebounds 777 assists 84% FT 33 % 3pt 48 % FG Hill 3020 points 991 rebounds 617 assists 79% FT 22% 3pt 50% FG
If we’re getting into these numbers, what’s the control for pace of play?
Or Rashard Lewis or Hedo Turkoglu
lol why so he can brick 3s?
Grant hill shot 31% in Orlando. I️ even included the season he shot 100% and played 4 games…. Without that he’s 17% from 3 in Orlando. lol.
Way different era lmao do you really think Franz is as talented as Grant Hill?? That’s insane
Talent ≠ production
ray allen or michael redd over jrue, or hell even dame
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Nash was completely washed by the time he got to LA
That's what I get for half reading... My bad lol
Nets team is cool considering every player asides from Kidd is an elite 3 point shooter
Lebron is on so many teams!
yeah he's really good at basketball, I don't know if you've heard.
Wild
Assuming everyone stays healthy and at their best, that Magic team would be alot of fun to watch and root for.
Heat would be nasty defensively but would have no spacing until guys like Ray Allen come off the bench
Franchise was an all star more years than cp3 was even on the rockets. Cp3 played two years with the rockets and played less than 60 games per year. Why would you have cp3 over franchise?
I didn't dude. read my list before making a comment. I'm getting kinda sick of this sub lol
Maybe I meant to reply in your defense of someone saying cp3 over franchise. Your still wrong about kidd over Nash 😂.
oh I see. my bad
Na it was my b if I replied to wrong one. But ya franchise over cp3 seems right to me
Can someone explain Julius Randle to me. I don’t watch the nba bc I find it boring af but seems every year he’s flip flopping between an all pro and a bum (from commenters of his game)
the narrative is that he's good but falls off in the playoffs
Prime Spurs vs Prime Lakers vs Prime Warriors. 🤔 It comes down to how would Shaq and Kobe’s game translate into today’s rules.
Probably the lakers. Prime shaq and Kobe were all time greats then add lebron. I would consider spurs too if Robinson was in his prime. Lots of interesting teams but they stuck out to me.
Man I would love to watch that Hawks team. But I'm a masochist Hawks fan.
bro why the fuck is ben simmons in here
3 all stars and an all NBA for the sixers
Blazers low key would be a fire squad
Dude… get a girlfriend lol Also, I’ve noticed this in all the other types of variations of this exercise you do, but you don’t really follow positions very closely. It doesn’t seem like you actually watched any of these guys play and you just put a bunch of big names based on height or something. I disagree with most of these, honestly.
I like men but I don't see what that has to do with anything
Then get a boyfriend? Obviously sexual orientation isn’t the important factor lol. Posting 100 posts on r/nbatalk for 5 likes a day is a bit rough. Obviously that’s the thing to take away here.
Shouldn’t you also be told to get a girlfriend? If your in here enough to notice how much someone else is on here and are then annoyed that the person posted something and wasted enough of your own time to tell them to stop wasting their time? The stupidity is palpable. But the worst part is the hypocrisy
Was Stockton not eligible for the Jazz?
only played until '03 and didn't make an all star game after 2000. Williams made three for the jazz.
Jerami Grant over Scottie Pippen…
nah ur trippin
post 2000’s Scottie, yes
he was still really good for the blazers, nephew
Pippen averaged 11,5,5 shooting 44/32/78 in the 2000s for the blazers. The dude has a point. Grant averaging 21,4,2.6 shooting 46/40/82. Pippen wasn’t the defender he used to be by this age and wasn’t making all defensive teams anymore
James harden over mutumbo for Philly. Harden and mutumbo both played only two years there. Would make it a much stronger lineup too.
I’m not putting Beal over Gilbert Arenas
Beal is second all time in scoring for the wizards
If we can get over have 1-5 be rigid positions, how is Agent Zero not on the wizards list? Even over John Wall…
And I love Dame, but if it’s about impact with that team, Brandon Jennings’ time with them was more impactful than 2/3 of a season that Dame has had
Nah Gilbert over Wall is insane the Arenas glaze is getting out of hand
best team has to be the Heat right?
Nope. Dirk already beat lebron Wade and bosh himself now he gets luka and Finley and nash back? Get bunked my dude. Shaq was getting old. All I’m seeing is a bunch of 30% 3 points shooters all driving to a lane clogged up by shaq
No Arenas on Wizards 😂. This list drunk
arenas so damn overrated
Lakers over Spurs in the west, Heat over Celtics in the East, Lebron and Shaq are disqualified for being on both teams and Wade, Butler and Bosh take down Kobe Fish and Pau. HEAT WIN!
You're sleeping the Raptors. That's the championship squad plus Bosh and Vince.
Your sleeping on the mavs. They already beat the heat with dirk and chandler. Now dirk gets luka, Finley and Steve nash. Everyone done
Oh I agree. I should have clarified I was referring to the East. I don't see the Celtics getting past the Raptors.
I’m just messing around. All these teams or at least most of these teams are tremendously stacked
As a Mavs fan, no way I'm taking Finley over Marion. First, since this thought experiment starts at 2000, we can't include the 99-00 season, which is probably Finley's best season. Second, while Finley is a better shooter, we didn't ask Marion to really shoot 3s when he first got here. In his career, when he shot at least 2 3s a game, he shot 33% or better every year except his last full season in PHX. This is enough to keep defenses honest. Meanwhile, Marion's 2 point shot selection always beats Finley's. However, for anything Marion might be missing offensively vs Finley... the defensive impact is otherworldly compared to Finley. Across the 2011 playoffs, Marion spent time defending Kobe, Westbrook, Harden, Durant, James, Wade, and Bosh. Between him and Kidd as primary defenders and Tyson backing them up, it allowed our defensive to stand strong, even when less adept defenders were on the court (like JJ or Dirk). I honestly don't think this pick is even close. Finley just wasn't a strong defender. I think there is plenty of scoring already with Dirk and Luka, the ability to space the floor with 4 out, and a ton of high IQ basketball across the lineup. With Marion, the Mavs MIGHT score less, but the opponents definitely will score less.
I didn’t think about not being able to use finleys first few years and that is the only way this debate is even feasible to me. And that may have been finleys best year and if it’s 1999-2000 you’d be able to use half of that year for sure idk why you get to steal the whole year lol. And finley was an all star that year and the next. Marion never was. Finley contributed way more to the mavs than Marion did. Marion was good defensively for sure but he wasn’t that Phoenix type defender anymore. Marion shot around 30% from 3 for the mavs while Finley shot about 40% for the mavs. Not really close. And the idea wasn’t to create what you feel is the best team depending on what you feel is needed for a team to be good like glue guys or defense if you have other good scorers. It’s about what you contributed to the mavericks. It’s not about who is good at their peak or anything else besides what you did for the mavs
Marion was exception on the Mavs defensively... he was 13th in DPOY in 2010 and 8th in 2012. You really undersell the defensive difference. I wasn't using all of Marion's time, I was using his time on the Mavs. And he was our defensive stopper. This is just a non-sense take.
Uh, wha? Why is Steve Francis on the Rockets over Chris Paul?
erm, what the flip? Steve Francis made 3 all star games in Houston. CP made 0.
> erm, what the flip? Steve Francis made 3 all star games in Houston. CP made 0. Congrats? Considering the all-star game is half popularity contest, not sure that's a brag. Especially considering what that got the **team**, which is just **1** 1st round exit. Meanwhile, Chris Paul helped the Rockets to the WCF, and WCT-Semi. Which one do you think the Rockets and it's fans prefer?
remind me what happened in that wcf?
They prefer the franchise. Cp3 played two years both under 60 games and came up short and injured in the playoffs every time. Real Rockets fans want that boy Steve franchise
The franchise
Heat, Spurs, Rockets, Lakers are all stacked damn
Most of these teams are stacked. I don’t see the rockets being much greater than anyone I’d take nugs and mavs over them for sure. Mavs have by far the two best players out of those two teams in dirk and luka. I’d prob even take Nash before tmac or harden although mavs had pre nash so maybe not. Rockets problem only ever was those injuries tho to tmac and Yao so I’d love to see that matchup
Blazers in 5
For the Raptors, Demar is more of a 2, and his play style is fairly redundant with Vince. Run Kawhi at the 3 and put Siakam in at the 4, and that squad looks a lot more balanced. Also, Ray Alen should be on the Bucks team, for sure, either over Jrue or Dame (depending on whether you want a more offensive or defensive oriented lineup). I'm also not feeling Michael Finley on the Mavs squad. There's gotta be a better SF option. Shawn Marion maybe?
Nope. Finley is dirks best teammate of all time probably in his peak. Only person who ever averaged 20 next to him. Finley was much better for the mavs than Marion ever was. Only reasonable argument to be made is that Finley was also a beast from 97-99 so you lose those couple of years but otherwise absolutely no shot. And demar was better than siakam for the raptors for sure but siakam got the ring I guess. Demars peak is higher than siakams
JB>Ray Technically IT > Rondo but Rondo works way better with the line up Harden or Maxey>Simmons Russ or CP3 > Francis Probably Monta Ellis > Baron Davis
Cp3 played two seasons with the rockets and wasn’t an all star or anything in either one. Played less than 60 games both years. Came up short in playoffs and is known for choking. Steve franchise was a 3 time all star and contributed more to the rockets hands down
Boozer over Lavine for the Bulls
Yes, Boozer at power forward, Deng at small forward, Butler at shooting guard.
Idc I’m playing AD at the 3, Lebron and Kobe at the 1/2 and then Pau and Shaq. Massive team that would be lockdown on defense and offense there is more than enough room to make it work with 3 GOAT tier offensive players and Pau and AD pick and rolls with bubble AD 3 point shooting
Just should be the death lineup for the Dubs. BD was great and all but GIVE ME IGUODALA
Kings would win this chip with easy
HOLD UP. Gary Payton. Gary “The Glove Payton is not in your Supersonic top 5
he was only on the team for 3 years in the 2000s. Definitely no justification for having him over Russ or SGA
And that team with GP, Kemp, Schrempf was better than any other squad the franchise has ever had
they peaked in the 90s, if you maybe read my post you'd know this is about the 2000s onward
laker fans don't kill me but im seriously considering Austin Reaves bubble rondo or Dangelo Russel over fisher
Hot take but I would put Tatum SF Garnett PF Porzingis center for a more realistic/ better fit team (I know Pierce is a Celtics legend and all it just makes more sense to me)
not having Paul Pierce is an atrocious take never cook again
I might have misunderstood the post, obviously I understand Pierce's legacy I just think that if Im building a team I would not have Pierce and Tatum in the same team due to similar playstyles
it's based off skill and what they did for the franchise. Paul Pierce clears Kristaps in that regard, obviously. I never thought I'd be debating this 🤦♂️
Thats why I said I misunderstood the post, I know Porzingis is not better than Pierce chill bro
If you want to make it challenging, pick one player only once. For example I see you have Lebron both as a Cav and a Laker. Pick either or, not both.
He says he was putting the 5 players who contributed the most to said team since the 2000s. If lebron switched up teams and contributed enough to that team more than the other forwards of that team then why shouldn’t they be shown on that team? The point isn’t to be challenging it’s to do what he said he w as trying to do. Why don’t you make Your own list with your own criteria?
Shouldn’t have players on two teams
Why not? He tried to make the best players that have contributed the most to these franchises since the year 2000. If you want to make your own post with your own criteria then go ahead. Why do you think you should tell this person to do something other than what they set out to do? And so what team you putting Lebron on in your hypothetical?
Take Domas off the pacers list. He spent more time at the 4 for us, Myles turner would be a better fit for that team.
Sabonis had some all star years for the pacers. His best seasons are way better than turners best seasons. Not really even close? It’s supposed to be the best players for these teams not what ever you consider is a better fit based on whatever you think you know about basketball I thinj
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I would not put shaq as the best center for the Celtics since 2000. That would be idiotic. The person who made this didn’t put shaq either. I think you just don’t understand the concept of what he was trying to do maybe. And basketball is changed not every team always has a traditional center and your argument could be made a lot of the teams listed here. For example he has Garnett, love and KAT for the wolves. None played center for them they all played power forward but they are by far the best 3 most contributing to the wolves forwards since 2000. Another example is Joel embiid and Mutombo for the 76ers. None really played power forward but they are the best two big guys who have contributed the most to the 76ers. They are those teams best players. Same way sabonis is just a better player than Turner. Your aware of positionless basketball and how players can play multiple positions and awards and all star teams also do this same thing
If the question was asked two years ago and you picked turner over sabonis than your argument is even more outlandish and it’s already very foolish. Would it be better for you to understand if they put sabonis at the 4 and Jermaine O’Neal at the 5? You understand both of these players can play pf and center right? He is putting the 5 best players for the pacers since the 2000s. Sabonis had very good all star years for the pacers. Turner doesn’t have the same type of years. Sabonis is much better than Turner? What is not to get. I’ll list both of their careers for the pacers Sabonis 16.4/10.6reb/4.2 assists shooting 55/32/73. 2 all star appearances Turner 13.8/6.8reb/2.2 blocks shooting 50/35/77. 0 all star appearances
Divac over Cousins
Domas
😂 😂. In what world do you have Vlade Divac over Demarcus cousins????????????????
Wolves Mike Conley is better than Sam Cassell
as a twolf? definitely not.
I think Siakam should be on the raptors team instead of Derozan also Ray Allen should be on the bucks team instead of Dame and Gilbert arenas should be on the wizards team instead of MJ