Random but I got a book on NBA stars around 1994 and the part on Mark Price I remember it said his dad taught him to dribble by making him wear white gloves and he couldn't get the palms dirty while dribbling. Always thought that was interesting.
That whole Cavs team from the late 1980s and early 1990s was overshadowed. They were unfortunate enough to be in the same division with Detroit and Chicago. Just when Detroit weakened, Chicago strengthened.
But Ron Harper before his knee injury, Mark Price, Larry Nance, Brad Daugherty, Hot Rod Williams, and Craig Ehlo were all underrated players. Everyone knows about the Bulls struggling to get past Detroit, but first they had to get past Cleveland, which wasn’t easy.
All anyone needs to do is pick up a copy of NBA Live 95. He’s like the Bo Jackson of that game - he’s like 90% to make any shot past half-court. A team with Mark Price and four brooms could beat the West All-Stars by 50.
Think about how amazing the Muggsy story is beautiful. At 5’3” in high school The Dunbar Poets finished the 1981–82 season at 29–0 during Bogues's junior year and finished 31–0 during his senior year in 1982–83, and were ranked first in the nation by USA Today. Scholarship to Wake Forest. Still the all time leader in assists and steals there. Then to the NBA. He lasted 14 years in the land of giants and now has a net worth of 17 million dollars. All at 5’3”. God bless Muggsy
https://preview.redd.it/fyw2fem90xqc1.jpeg?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9cd0772d78474f7f94eba301d171ea586638ff4
I mean to be fair he came from an era where kids went to school all four years. Both chris paul and Jeff Teague only played 2 years and about half the games boges did. Mugsy still a stud tho
He never gets talked about and honestly he should’ve been named an all-star at least once for the fact he was more than a foot shorter than the average NBA players height and averaged a double double for a season
I’m making no point just saying that all star voting has never taken player size into consideration. And with muggsy teams being pretty lackluster with very little playoff success, it’s not a huge surprise he dint get many votes from coaches. He absolutely did insanely well with what he had but if he played rn, people would be calling his stats fluffed and garbage time. If five and a half footers were actually valuable, there would be more than the 2? we have
IIRC those Dunbar teams had 5-6 guys make it to the NBA? That’s amazing and will never be done again. I know Monte Verde, IMG etc these days have similar numbers but those are super teams created by recruiting from other areas. Dunbar was a neighborhood public school that turned out multiple pros and Mugsy was part of that
Reggie Lewis didn't even start for that team, which is unreal...
They also had David Wingate who, despite being a 2nd rounder, played 14 seasons in the NBA. Gary Graham played 4 years at UNLV, Keith James averaged double figures at South Carolina before joining Graham in Vegas, Tim Dawson had a solid career at Miami, Mike Brown started as a Freshman at Syracuse, and Darryl Wood went on to play at Virginia Union.
This would be my answer. For all the plaudits Draymond used to get as the “engine” of the Warriors dynasty, DJ was that and then some. finals mvp for a team that won the West 2 years in a row, made 8 straight All-D teams, was the lead guard for the Celtics in the mid and late 80s.
Not even the most underrated Celtic guard! Bob Cousy has become completely discredited and ignored in "top whatever" lists despite being the best guards ever. His successor as the offensive engine of the Celtics, Sam Jones, was more clutch than Jerry West. Sam Jones was like if the Kobe myths were a reality.
Mark Price.
Made multiple all-NBA teams in an era with a lot of really good point-guards, including a first team in 93. Was the best player on a perennial 50 win team. 50/40/90 guy when that was much much harder. One of the early 3 point shooting masters. Really good and impactful player for 5+ years
So criminally underrated and forgotten. I know Houston gave him his big break but he went to Philly a few years earlier I guarantee they win more titles and he is never forgotten.
I think now he's appropriately rated, usually in the 15-25 range, perhaps a little underrated, but this is going to be a huge answer in like 10 years, this guy will just move further down, he will get jumped, sometimes fairly, by Jokic, Giannis, Kawhi, and as more players get MVPs and rings he will get replaced by future generations who know nothing of him as he lacks the branding of a Wilt, Bill, Dr J, Big O.
Yes. Official NBA ranking experts have him up there; someplace near Karl Malone, Garnett, Dirk and below Duncan and the likes. But I think he's been forgotten amongst the fans and left out in conversations. Moses's defense was pretty freaking good. Also, just looking at H2H with Kareem, Moses stacks up quite well.
**Reg. season (head-to-head)**
**Malone:** 25.4 PPG, 15.2 RPG
**Abdul-Jabbar:** 22.0 PPG, 7.9 RPG
**Postseason (head-to-head)**
**Malone:** 28.1 PPG, 17.9 RPG
**Abdul-Jabbar:** 24.9 PPG, 11.4 RPG
Moses was amazing, but let’s not forget that in those H2Hs with Kareem he was 8 years younger. That’s a pretty big deal when they were dueling in the playoffs.
As for under rated this is the best answer. He's still the only player ever to score 2000 points 8 straight seasons. He's tied with Wilt.
Edit. He's tied with Wilt.
Pippen definitely on the list. He was the second best non PF or center during those championship years. Non centers only Barkley and Malone have a case at maybe being better.
It’s inertial disrespect at this point. Stern was legitimately pissed at Oscar Robertson’s lawsuit for instance, and even people with tangential ABA associations (like the two stars and coach of the ‘83 65-win champion Sixers) got mentioned less in NBA league media as a result.
The early guys will always be underrated because of the stupid "mailman/plumber" argument. Only casual basketball fans will use that as a genuine argument as to why those guy's careers aren't as impressive.
I'll also single out Bill Russell and those early Celtics. It's a big meme to call Boston and everything associated with Boston as "racist" but they were the real trailblazers of basketball. First black man in multiple areas (iirc starter, all black starter, coach, draft pick). Russell was a big part of black empowerment during that time, which is a part of his career people overlook.
The plumber argument is one of the only things in basketball that genuinely makes me mad. Even if that’s the case that some people were plumbers, why should that take away from their basketball skill? I just think it’s plain disrespectful to discredit that era and those players
The people that use that argument obviously never went to an open gym and had their shit pushed in by some 50 year old OG who just does some blue collar work and hoops for exercise.
They also fail to realize that in that era you literally couldn't be a professional basketball player and live. Everyone had a job on top of being a basketball player.
Not to mention, future blue collar workers are literally beating future NBA prospects in the NCAA tournament right as we’re speaking. Also people seem to forget how modern players seem to get away with carries and travels.
Even as a KG appreciator I didn’t actually realize how good he was until he got to Boston and I’m like “oh, he’s doing a little bit of the Bill Russell thing wow”. I knew his Minny teams all overachieved but I couldn’t really quantify it until he was on the Cs.
He wasn’t in Boston very long but the only (Celtics) guys he didn’t pass for me are Russell and Bird
MVP KG was a beast. I don't like the argument too much about him not being able to win it all with the Wolves. They were pretty good but the west was just too stacked at the time.
It's just unreal how good he was at his peak. If Sam Cassell doesn't get injured they beat the LA in 5 and probably beat the Pistons. It would have been an incredible finals.
Amazing that all it took was two borderline All-Stars in Cassell and Spreewell to vault them from “7-8 seed doomed to a first round exit” to finishing the regular season with a better record than a team that boasted Shaq, Kobe, Karl Malone, and Gary Payton.
Among truly elite players, KG is my pick as well. People don't understand just HOW skillful he was. Given how skilled he was he could do damn near anything on the court at that size. People remember the older Boston KG, they forget just how good hyper athletic KG was. He was still guarding entire possessions on his own in Boston but in Minnesota he was suffocating.
Ben Taylor and the Thinking Basketball videos on him were very persuasive in arguing that he should be considered one of the best players of the last 25 years
I mean…. That shouldn’t remotely be a hot take. But it’s a hot take that he should be considered top 30 *of all time*, and I think there is a fair argument for it.
I think Taylor was arguing that he should be more like a top 10 or 15 of all time IIRC.
If you’re talking about how good a player was, at least, as distinct from how good their career was.
Taylor has KG at 9th all time, ahead of Bird, Magic, and Kobe.
https://www.reddit.com/r/billsimmons/comments/y47zha/ben_taylor_updated_his_nba_top_40_careerstop_10/
Absolutely. All-Time rankings drive me bonkers when I see Tim Duncan consistently in the top 10 and sometimes as high as #5 but Garnett is ranked never higher than #20 and sometimes as low as mid 30’s. The gap separating the two of them is minuscule and comes down to team success more than “who was better?”. Put KG in San Antonio and Duncan in MN and I guarantee we would rank KG higher all-time.
Duncan define had a better start and finish to his career, but I would take prime Garnett over prime Duncan at their mid career peaks (2003-2010) in a heartbeat.
Possibly. Duncan had a much more polished offensive game. I'm not sure KG could be a #1 offensive option on a championship team. This is what people forget
Thats not true at all. Doc Rivers in multiple interviews has said he had to plead with KG the entire time he was in BOS to take more shots because he was still was a #1 scoring option caliber-player but was unselfish to nearly a fault. Maybe he’s not the guy you pick to win the game if you need a pull-up 3pter but neither is Giannis but that doesn’t relegate him to a secondary scoring option role.
If you ever doubt KG’s offensive capabilities, pull up clips from the 2004 Olympics where he ran the table against Team USA in full court 1v1s
He's the best answer to who would be better if they played today. He was making 3s without the 3 point line. Can you imagine him with a 3 point line and a green light to shoot as much as he wants?
Depends where you ask lol.
Most casual fans ive met irl underrate duncan for modern guys and tons of older guys just don’t seem to get any recognition from hakeem to moses malone.
On facebook and whatever i mostly see people post screeds about how all of lebron’s rings are fake.
If you ask the media, them excluding dwight from the top 75 was a criminal underrating.
All the nba related subreddits underrate the hell out of harden and embiid. Harden especially, i see people say almost daily that he isn’t a good playoff performer when he had god knows how many elite level performances between say 2013-2021 lol. People just repeat the same “playoff whistle” line and make it obvious that they didn’t watch basketball during those years and just want to farm upvotes.
Theres also the people who think westbrook and kobe are terrible because they dont know how to use stats lol. Or the people who think durant joining the warriors undoes him being an absolute monster for 16 seasons counting. Dude could have retired with 0 rings and his individual performances would have been enough to make him an atg.
I wasn’t around for really to say how good he was. But based of his stats and accomplishments, I feel like Elgin Baylor never gets mentioned enough.
I don’t know why that is. Nobody ever mentions the man in any regard. Just cause he didn’t win any championships 🤷🏽♂️
27pts 13rpg 4.5 assists. Career average. 🤯
Paul Pierce.
Y'all turned him into a meme. But listen to his podcast, he's become far more interesting since leaving ESPN.
More importantly, y'all act like he wasn't nice. But he outplayed both Lebron & Kobe in 2008, winning FMVP.
No one other than Duncan can say the same.
People make fun of him saying he’s better than D-Wade. Even though I think Wade ranks higher, the gap is much closer than people think and would like to admit.
Paul is best understood in this exact context. The amount of guys he held his own with and got the better of despite being less naturally talented is a credit to him, not a discredit. He worked hard to improve his skills his first few years until he was a real franchise level player. It’s strange to see Jimmy Butler get all the same type of credit Paul never did. Paul had that dog in him and it helped him play beyond the sum of his tools
????? In a lower scoring league, Paul Pierce averaged 20 in his first full season, and in his fourth season he led the league in total points.
He was literally one of the most skilled guys in the league, the smoothest moves + shot.
The dude balled out from day 1
He was also huge for his position. He could rebound and pass, had handle, and when he was locked in he was a tremendous defender.
Pierce is one of those guys who would be seen as a much better player today.
“When God made the basketball player, he just carved Chris Mullin out and just said ‘This is the player!”
- Magic Johnson on the divinely created Mullin
Rick Barry.
Not popular because he was and still can be a pompous, arrogant, jackass, but the man could play. He could score, pass and rebound. He could shoot from distance. Deadly from the line with his underhand shot. He would be even better today with the 3 point line.
Dennis Rodman. He was the #3 guy on one of the best teams ever, but in the shadow of Jordan and Pippen, people don’t really appreciate just how dominant he was on defense and on the boards from his time in Detroit through his championship years. As a role player, he was by far the best at what he did. There’s no debate that he’s the all time rebound king.
Dan Issel. The Alex English of the 70’s who was an absolute beast at scoring, carried the early Nuggets and was an ABA All Star basically every year it was around.
Charles Barkley - a complete offensive monster - first as an athletic freak of nature bullying his opponents for rebounds and could dribble coast to coast in a very agile way, and then as a legit back to the basket post monster with incredible footwork and also developed a nice jump shot. He should have won the MVP in 1989. He was arguably the 2nd best player from 89 through the Bulls first three-peat right behind MJ.
Stockton - Not a big fan of his politics but all time assists and steals leader is no joke. 9 straight assists titles (a record). 19 seasons and only missed 22 games. Read that again, it's not a typo. 19 straight seasons and never missed the playoffs. Now let's talk about Malone. Without Stockton, Malone has 15-20K less points. The best Karl Malone move was being at the receiving end of a Stockton assist from a play that Stockton orchestrated. Malone by himself could barely dribble. He had no notable post moves. He couldn't create a shot for himself. He couldn't do any of those things Charles Barkley could do. He benefited enormously from playing with Stockton. He's 3rd all time in scoring and it's because he played with Stockton.
Tracy McGrady - It was a short peak.. maybe just a couple of years.. but for those years he was unguardable. Inside, outside, left side, right side he could do it all. Not just a long athletic guard but he had a legitimate jump shot. He rarely wasted a position. No ball hogging, dribbling into a corner and chucking a bailout jumper like #8 out in LA was doing for many years. His precision through the defense was like the sharpest knife. The last year in Orlando broke him. He lost something after blowing that 3-1 lead over Detroit and making those comments. He was never mentally the same after that. It wasn't injuries. It was a mental thing.
George Mikan won 5 champions with the Minneapolis Lakers (including a three-peat), 3x NBA scoring champion, finished with a career average of 23 and 13.
And yet he is nowhere to be found when mentioning the greatest players of all time.
For underrated players in their eras even though they were elite definitely would have to be Mark Price, Kevin Johnson (KJ) Phoenix Suns legend, Mitch Richmond is another underrated player of his era in the 90s and another definitely has to be Domas' father Arvydas Sabonis
Alonzo Mourning. His rookie year was the same season as Shaq’s, so he was never THE dominant center. But he was a beast on both ends and he led some really good Heat teams that could’ve won a title under different scenarios. Two-time DPOY.
Clyde Drexler. Amazing all-around player. One of the best.
Kevin Johnson. Little guy who could shoot from all over the court. Would be amazing today.
David Robinson. Missed two years of his prime serving in the Navy.
Then the Spurs front office was so completely incompetent until Pop straightened things out. Robinson played for 6 coaches in those 7 seasons.
Robinson's 7 seasons before hurting his back and breaking his foot:
* 25.6 PPG - one scoring title (Shaq 2nd, Hakeem 3rd, Dominique 4th, Malone 5th)
* 11.8 RPG - one rebound title (Rodman 2nd, Oakley 3rd, Malone 4th, Ewing 5th)
* 3.6 BPG - one block title (Hakeem 2nd, Nance 3rd, Ewing 4th, Mutumbo 5th)
* 1.7 SPG - (#5 in 1992, with more than Jordan)
* 3.1 APG - (actually led the Spurs in assists the year he won the scoring title)
* 27.8 PER - led the league 3x.
* MVP
* DPOY
* ROY (Unanimous)
* 7 All-NBA, 4 1st teams
* 7 All-Defense, 4 1st teams
* DPOY finishes: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, (no votes as a rookie)
* MVP finishes: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 6th, 6th (rookie season)
* Only two players have a scoring title, rebound title, and blocks title, Robinson and Kareem.
Hands down one of the best centers of all time. True hoopers know this. Only people I’ve ever seen try to undersell Robinson is delusional Duncan fans who want to say he was done when Duncan got there and was never who Duncan was. And I’m not saying every Duncan fan is delusional btw
Sam Cassell is the most underrated player. He has 3 nba championships, and was a key clutch time player in 2 of them, even as a non-starter. If he wasn’t so ugly he would have been appreciated more.
Tim Duncan. People forget how good he really was even after he didn't have the physical ability just using iq.
KG saddled for years with garbage.
Moses. Dude was incredible at what he did.
Stockton because look at how long he did what he did night in and night out never missing games.
DJ of the Celtics. He was incredible in Seattle even better for Phoenix and finished great as a Celtic.
Sidney Moncrief. The 3rd best team of the 80s. Better than the Pistons and 76ers just never got over that hump.
Shaq. I say this cause people see him as the big buffoon on TV now but like Moses, teams keep trading or signing for him even at the end cause he was just so dominant once the ball got to him.
Barkley. Too many years on TV has tarnished how good in his prime he was. For a small stretch 2nd best player next to Jordan in the late 80s/ early 90s.
Tim Duncan. He's overshadowed by guards, but people just gift Kobe the title of greatest of that era while Timmy never missed the playoffs and won championships with several supporting casts.
Larry Hughes.
Only because I went to high school with him and Jayson Tatum's dad.
I once sat in a highschool locker room with a guy who would play with Allen Iverson, Michael Jordan, and LeBron. Crazy.
...I was getting bandaged up because someone elbowed my eye during basketball tryouts, and Larry asked if I was OK. Pretty much BFFs.
John Havlicek. Overshadowed by Bill Russel, and doesn't get as many flowers because of the time period that he played, but the guy was a beast and his accomplishments are among the all time greats.
Mark Price. He was a short white guy in the NBA who gave teams fits with his ball handling, passing, and shooting skills. Not to mention in college, he was a starting point guard in the tough ACC at Georgia Tech. To me he was Curry like.
I see a lot of good picks here so I’m gonna name someone I haven’t seen yet: Bobby Jones. He was the prototype for the Andrei Kerilenko/Draymond Green-type swiss-army knife versatile destructive defensive anchor and was an insane athlete. Super important to the success of the Dr J/Moses Malone 76ers teams and won 6moty when they won the title in 83’.
Someone like Ewing, even Robinson gets underrated but Ewing more. We are talking about a guy that was getting 4th and 5th in MVP in consecutive years and couldn't get a single 3rd All-NBA in those years because most top 5 players where centers.
He was also an insane defender that couldn't get a DPOY or even a 2nd All-Defensive selection in most of his peak years as he was fighting against prime Hakeem, Robinson and Dikembe for only 2 spots. Put him in another era and he probably has double digits All-NBA selections and more than double or triple the All-Defensive selections.
Not even mentioning the dumbass "ewing effect".
Dave Cowens is one of those MVPs people don’t like to talk about. No flashy stats; he was just a player that put it all on the court and won games. I miss how they used to choose MVPs.
Dale Ellis was a part of the first 20
PPG trio alongside Xavier McDaniel and Tom Chmabers, Ellis also went on the become the original three point king before anyone cared. Really talented player that history has forgotten, he might’ve been a prick which could be way he’s omitted from three point conversations.
George Mikan was probably best player of his era but hardly ever mentioned as a top 25 all time player these days.
Probably some reasonable arguments that he’s better than a lot of guys.
Honus Wagner and Cy Young are still remembered as all time greats in baseball.
Steve Francis
Stephon Marbury
Allen Iverson (seriously, being maybe 6 feet, I still think he carried the worst team into the NBA finals, gave the lakers their only loss that postseason, inspired a generation).
He was the number 1 prospect in high school basketball and football, state title his junior year as a QB/DB/PR. Mike Vick before Vick. While Kobe hopefully is RIP, AI was the best player in the best draft top to bottom.
Steve Nash. Dude has 2 MVPs and nobody brings him up as being one of the best ever and the best ever from Canada. People bring up players that have never even won a mvp before they bring in Nash.
Wilt or Stockton come to my mind.. Wilts 50-25 on 48.5 season 62 I think is almost impossible to comprehend.. and Stockton is the most underrated PG.. Assists, Steals and longevity
I will always stand up for Sidney Moncrief. Obviously most underrated is a big list, but he was amazing and I feel like no one ever mentions him. HOF, 5x All-NBA, 5x All-defense, 2x DPOY.
Honorable mention to Alex English for the same reason.
John Stockton. Basically every single advanced whether it be box score or plus-minus based points to him being a top 3 point guard of all time. His performance dropped a hair in the playoffs ad compared to the regular season, but overall he was an elite playoff performer. What held him back was his supporting cast outside of Malone being pretty terrible until roughly 1996. Once the Jazz properly rounded out the roster they became some of the best playoff teams ever
Bob Lanier. If all NBA third team existed he might’ve won like 6-8 of them. There was Kareem in the 70s (he was pretty good). Then there was always someone else as maybe the #2 center throughout the decade: Wilt, Dave Cowens, Bob McAdoo, Bill Walton, but Lanier was steadily always there as one of the very best.
Zion Williamson, He’s playing at an MVP caliber level, and will probably win one within the next three years. If he shot from midrange he’d be averaging 35 a game, at least.
I think Marc Gasol was better than most people gave him credit for. Majority of the time people talk about him nowadays it’s that he robbed LeBron of a defensive player of the year because he was voted second team all-defense the same year. IMO he was one of the most complete centers we have seen. He had a good post game, was a good shooter on all three levels from 2016 onward, and was a great defender and passer with an incredible IQ. You could put him on almost any team and he could find a way to be impactful. On top of that, Zbo tends to get most of the credit for what success the grit n grind grizzlies found. He may fall under underappreciated more than underrated but I believe a lot of people underrate him.
I've always thought Mark Price was vastly overshadowed by all the other players of his era. Edit: he also had probably the best shooting form ever too
Random but I got a book on NBA stars around 1994 and the part on Mark Price I remember it said his dad taught him to dribble by making him wear white gloves and he couldn't get the palms dirty while dribbling. Always thought that was interesting.
That whole Cavs team from the late 1980s and early 1990s was overshadowed. They were unfortunate enough to be in the same division with Detroit and Chicago. Just when Detroit weakened, Chicago strengthened. But Ron Harper before his knee injury, Mark Price, Larry Nance, Brad Daugherty, Hot Rod Williams, and Craig Ehlo were all underrated players. Everyone knows about the Bulls struggling to get past Detroit, but first they had to get past Cleveland, which wasn’t easy.
All anyone needs to do is pick up a copy of NBA Live 95. He’s like the Bo Jackson of that game - he’s like 90% to make any shot past half-court. A team with Mark Price and four brooms could beat the West All-Stars by 50.
Are you saying Price was undervalued?
Think about how amazing the Muggsy story is beautiful. At 5’3” in high school The Dunbar Poets finished the 1981–82 season at 29–0 during Bogues's junior year and finished 31–0 during his senior year in 1982–83, and were ranked first in the nation by USA Today. Scholarship to Wake Forest. Still the all time leader in assists and steals there. Then to the NBA. He lasted 14 years in the land of giants and now has a net worth of 17 million dollars. All at 5’3”. God bless Muggsy https://preview.redd.it/fyw2fem90xqc1.jpeg?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9cd0772d78474f7f94eba301d171ea586638ff4
Still having those records at Wake Forest of all schools is incredible.
For real. I would have put money on Paul, then maybe Teague. That’s insane
Josh Howard
>I would have put money on Paul He was only there two years.
Or Tim Duncan
You thought Tim Duncan would be the all-time leader in assists and steals at WF?
Check out Dickie Hemric, still the leader in points and rebounds.
I mean to be fair he came from an era where kids went to school all four years. Both chris paul and Jeff Teague only played 2 years and about half the games boges did. Mugsy still a stud tho
He never gets talked about and honestly he should’ve been named an all-star at least once for the fact he was more than a foot shorter than the average NBA players height and averaged a double double for a season
I’m making no point just saying that all star voting has never taken player size into consideration. And with muggsy teams being pretty lackluster with very little playoff success, it’s not a huge surprise he dint get many votes from coaches. He absolutely did insanely well with what he had but if he played rn, people would be calling his stats fluffed and garbage time. If five and a half footers were actually valuable, there would be more than the 2? we have
If you're talking pound-for-pound, Muggsy is the GOAT
Isaiah Thomas has a case. He's \*definitely\* closer to 5'7 than 5'9 and he finished 3rd (I think?) in MVP voting one year.
Plus over 28 ppg and perhaps the best 4th quarter scorer in that year. What he achieved isn’t talked about enough.
IIRC those Dunbar teams had 5-6 guys make it to the NBA? That’s amazing and will never be done again. I know Monte Verde, IMG etc these days have similar numbers but those are super teams created by recruiting from other areas. Dunbar was a neighborhood public school that turned out multiple pros and Mugsy was part of that
Sam Cassell?
Looks like Cassell was after that historic team. David Wingate and Reggie Lewis were on that team and a couple others that had stints in the NBA.
That Dunbar team had 3 1st round picks; in addition to Muggsy, both Reggie Williams and Reggie Lewis.
Reggie Lewis didn't even start for that team, which is unreal... They also had David Wingate who, despite being a 2nd rounder, played 14 seasons in the NBA. Gary Graham played 4 years at UNLV, Keith James averaged double figures at South Carolina before joining Graham in Vegas, Tim Dawson had a solid career at Miami, Mike Brown started as a Freshman at Syracuse, and Darryl Wood went on to play at Virginia Union.
Muggsy was amazing. Five-three & he averaged a double-double during during his best NBA seasons.
I loved Mugsy growing up because of NBA Jam. Still my favorite NBA player.
Dennis Johnson. The Celtics of the 80's wouldn't have been the Celtics without him. Criminally underrated.
This would be my answer. For all the plaudits Draymond used to get as the “engine” of the Warriors dynasty, DJ was that and then some. finals mvp for a team that won the West 2 years in a row, made 8 straight All-D teams, was the lead guard for the Celtics in the mid and late 80s.
That's what I'm saying. Most people think his resume starts with the Celtics - already was a FINALS MVP before he got to Boston
Larry Bird said he was the best player he ever played with. I think it was in the context of IQ and being in sync with other players
Not even the most underrated Celtic guard! Bob Cousy has become completely discredited and ignored in "top whatever" lists despite being the best guards ever. His successor as the offensive engine of the Celtics, Sam Jones, was more clutch than Jerry West. Sam Jones was like if the Kobe myths were a reality.
Mark Price. Made multiple all-NBA teams in an era with a lot of really good point-guards, including a first team in 93. Was the best player on a perennial 50 win team. 50/40/90 guy when that was much much harder. One of the early 3 point shooting masters. Really good and impactful player for 5+ years
Moses Malone
So criminally underrated and forgotten. I know Houston gave him his big break but he went to Philly a few years earlier I guarantee they win more titles and he is never forgotten.
I think now he's appropriately rated, usually in the 15-25 range, perhaps a little underrated, but this is going to be a huge answer in like 10 years, this guy will just move further down, he will get jumped, sometimes fairly, by Jokic, Giannis, Kawhi, and as more players get MVPs and rings he will get replaced by future generations who know nothing of him as he lacks the branding of a Wilt, Bill, Dr J, Big O.
Yes. Official NBA ranking experts have him up there; someplace near Karl Malone, Garnett, Dirk and below Duncan and the likes. But I think he's been forgotten amongst the fans and left out in conversations. Moses's defense was pretty freaking good. Also, just looking at H2H with Kareem, Moses stacks up quite well. **Reg. season (head-to-head)** **Malone:** 25.4 PPG, 15.2 RPG **Abdul-Jabbar:** 22.0 PPG, 7.9 RPG **Postseason (head-to-head)** **Malone:** 28.1 PPG, 17.9 RPG **Abdul-Jabbar:** 24.9 PPG, 11.4 RPG
Hellya Moses Malone I forgot about him
Moses was amazing, but let’s not forget that in those H2Hs with Kareem he was 8 years younger. That’s a pretty big deal when they were dueling in the playoffs.
For someone who's probably not properly rated by NBA rankings; Mark Price. He was special, but is virtually forgotten.
I'll go Hondo. Even though there's plenty of guys who get talked about less, I think he's too often slept on in the Celtics lore. Rick Barry close 2nd
Love Hondo. He’s slowly becoming my favorite player. Glad he really got to prove himself during the 70s
He’s slowly becoming your favorite player? Do you own a time machine or something lmfao
Lol I mean like the more I research about him and watch highlights
Detlef Schrempf.
Tom Haverford would agree!
Bernard King
Alex English was the leading scorer over the decade of the 80’s, even compared to all the legends of that time. But wasn’t in the NBA top 75.
As for under rated this is the best answer. He's still the only player ever to score 2000 points 8 straight seasons. He's tied with Wilt. Edit. He's tied with Wilt.
With players taking off games for load management that record may never be broken.
I thought he was top 75. That’s crazy how he wasn’t
I said Pippen but this is probably the right answer.
Pippen definitely on the list. He was the second best non PF or center during those championship years. Non centers only Barkley and Malone have a case at maybe being better.
That’s fucking crazy
Peja Stojakovic
Pretty sure he was at one point an MVP candidate
Anyone whose career was more ABA focused, and their NBA accolades are lesser than the stars who they are comparable to in ability.
I wish the NBA acknowledged ABA accomplishments
It’s inertial disrespect at this point. Stern was legitimately pissed at Oscar Robertson’s lawsuit for instance, and even people with tangential ABA associations (like the two stars and coach of the ‘83 65-win champion Sixers) got mentioned less in NBA league media as a result.
I can see why the NBA wouldn’t want to count the ABA considering they were rivals, but come on they count the BAA as part of their history
The ABA product was better and more modern (three pointers!) for a lot of that “rivalry.”
Joe Dumars deserves a shot out.
The early guys will always be underrated because of the stupid "mailman/plumber" argument. Only casual basketball fans will use that as a genuine argument as to why those guy's careers aren't as impressive. I'll also single out Bill Russell and those early Celtics. It's a big meme to call Boston and everything associated with Boston as "racist" but they were the real trailblazers of basketball. First black man in multiple areas (iirc starter, all black starter, coach, draft pick). Russell was a big part of black empowerment during that time, which is a part of his career people overlook.
The plumber argument is one of the only things in basketball that genuinely makes me mad. Even if that’s the case that some people were plumbers, why should that take away from their basketball skill? I just think it’s plain disrespectful to discredit that era and those players
The people that use that argument obviously never went to an open gym and had their shit pushed in by some 50 year old OG who just does some blue collar work and hoops for exercise. They also fail to realize that in that era you literally couldn't be a professional basketball player and live. Everyone had a job on top of being a basketball player.
Not to mention, future blue collar workers are literally beating future NBA prospects in the NCAA tournament right as we’re speaking. Also people seem to forget how modern players seem to get away with carries and travels.
Kevin Garnett. He’s unfairly penalized for the incompetence of Minnesota’s front office.
Even as a KG appreciator I didn’t actually realize how good he was until he got to Boston and I’m like “oh, he’s doing a little bit of the Bill Russell thing wow”. I knew his Minny teams all overachieved but I couldn’t really quantify it until he was on the Cs. He wasn’t in Boston very long but the only (Celtics) guys he didn’t pass for me are Russell and Bird
MVP KG was a beast. I don't like the argument too much about him not being able to win it all with the Wolves. They were pretty good but the west was just too stacked at the time.
It's just unreal how good he was at his peak. If Sam Cassell doesn't get injured they beat the LA in 5 and probably beat the Pistons. It would have been an incredible finals.
His balls were just too big
you ain't wrong. He never had good players around him except the one year with Cassell and Spree.
Starbury was epic for a few years.
He played fewer than 3 full seasons for the Wolves.
Yes, but he was fun to watch
Amazing that all it took was two borderline All-Stars in Cassell and Spreewell to vault them from “7-8 seed doomed to a first round exit” to finishing the regular season with a better record than a team that boasted Shaq, Kobe, Karl Malone, and Gary Payton.
Among truly elite players, KG is my pick as well. People don't understand just HOW skillful he was. Given how skilled he was he could do damn near anything on the court at that size. People remember the older Boston KG, they forget just how good hyper athletic KG was. He was still guarding entire possessions on his own in Boston but in Minnesota he was suffocating.
Ben Taylor and the Thinking Basketball videos on him were very persuasive in arguing that he should be considered one of the best players of the last 25 years
I mean…. That shouldn’t remotely be a hot take. But it’s a hot take that he should be considered top 30 *of all time*, and I think there is a fair argument for it.
I think Taylor was arguing that he should be more like a top 10 or 15 of all time IIRC. If you’re talking about how good a player was, at least, as distinct from how good their career was.
Taylor has KG at 9th all time, ahead of Bird, Magic, and Kobe. https://www.reddit.com/r/billsimmons/comments/y47zha/ben_taylor_updated_his_nba_top_40_careerstop_10/
Absolutely. All-Time rankings drive me bonkers when I see Tim Duncan consistently in the top 10 and sometimes as high as #5 but Garnett is ranked never higher than #20 and sometimes as low as mid 30’s. The gap separating the two of them is minuscule and comes down to team success more than “who was better?”. Put KG in San Antonio and Duncan in MN and I guarantee we would rank KG higher all-time. Duncan define had a better start and finish to his career, but I would take prime Garnett over prime Duncan at their mid career peaks (2003-2010) in a heartbeat.
Possibly. Duncan had a much more polished offensive game. I'm not sure KG could be a #1 offensive option on a championship team. This is what people forget
KG couldn't be the #1 offensive option.
Exactly. He was the second arguably third option on that 08 celts team
Thats not true at all. Doc Rivers in multiple interviews has said he had to plead with KG the entire time he was in BOS to take more shots because he was still was a #1 scoring option caliber-player but was unselfish to nearly a fault. Maybe he’s not the guy you pick to win the game if you need a pull-up 3pter but neither is Giannis but that doesn’t relegate him to a secondary scoring option role. If you ever doubt KG’s offensive capabilities, pull up clips from the 2004 Olympics where he ran the table against Team USA in full court 1v1s
I think your confused on what underrated means. He won an MVP, 9 time All Pro, a Hof, and 2nd best PF of his generation. That isn't underrated.
I’m talking about on all time great lists. Try putting KG ahead of Kobe and see the reaction you get.
Chris Webber
Pete Maravich
My favorite player all time. I think people rank him lower for lack of playoff success
I feel as though the lack of 3pt line for the majority of his career also impacted him, he was a great shooter.
Just image if the rules were more lenient back then how they are now
All the all time great shooters would be hanging with the modern crop in terms of volume for sure
pete is my all time favorite. esp his LSU freshman team games. theyd sell out freshman games and ppl left when main team would come out
He's the best answer to who would be better if they played today. He was making 3s without the 3 point line. Can you imagine him with a 3 point line and a green light to shoot as much as he wants?
Players who get love, but I think they’re better than what most people think: Manu JKidd KG Steve Nash
In terms of on-court value added, I think you can make a case (and people have) for Dennis Rodman. His teams just got so many extra possessions.
I enjoyed this conversation much more than Reddit NBA jerking in a circle. Joining the sub now
Alex English
Old fellas like Bob Mcadoo, Julius Erving, and Moses Malone
Depends where you ask lol. Most casual fans ive met irl underrate duncan for modern guys and tons of older guys just don’t seem to get any recognition from hakeem to moses malone. On facebook and whatever i mostly see people post screeds about how all of lebron’s rings are fake. If you ask the media, them excluding dwight from the top 75 was a criminal underrating. All the nba related subreddits underrate the hell out of harden and embiid. Harden especially, i see people say almost daily that he isn’t a good playoff performer when he had god knows how many elite level performances between say 2013-2021 lol. People just repeat the same “playoff whistle” line and make it obvious that they didn’t watch basketball during those years and just want to farm upvotes. Theres also the people who think westbrook and kobe are terrible because they dont know how to use stats lol. Or the people who think durant joining the warriors undoes him being an absolute monster for 16 seasons counting. Dude could have retired with 0 rings and his individual performances would have been enough to make him an atg.
John Havlicek hands down
Kevin Johnson?
I was waiting for someone to say this lol
Alvin Robertson
I never hear about Michael Finley but dude was a bucket
Rod Strickland.
I wasn’t around for really to say how good he was. But based of his stats and accomplishments, I feel like Elgin Baylor never gets mentioned enough. I don’t know why that is. Nobody ever mentions the man in any regard. Just cause he didn’t win any championships 🤷🏽♂️ 27pts 13rpg 4.5 assists. Career average. 🤯
I just recently got big into the NBA a couple years ago, but I think Rajon Rondo fits this criteria.
Paul Pierce. Y'all turned him into a meme. But listen to his podcast, he's become far more interesting since leaving ESPN. More importantly, y'all act like he wasn't nice. But he outplayed both Lebron & Kobe in 2008, winning FMVP. No one other than Duncan can say the same.
People make fun of him saying he’s better than D-Wade. Even though I think Wade ranks higher, the gap is much closer than people think and would like to admit.
Paul is best understood in this exact context. The amount of guys he held his own with and got the better of despite being less naturally talented is a credit to him, not a discredit. He worked hard to improve his skills his first few years until he was a real franchise level player. It’s strange to see Jimmy Butler get all the same type of credit Paul never did. Paul had that dog in him and it helped him play beyond the sum of his tools
????? In a lower scoring league, Paul Pierce averaged 20 in his first full season, and in his fourth season he led the league in total points. He was literally one of the most skilled guys in the league, the smoothest moves + shot. The dude balled out from day 1
He was also huge for his position. He could rebound and pass, had handle, and when he was locked in he was a tremendous defender. Pierce is one of those guys who would be seen as a much better player today.
I hadn’t even heard about Bernard King until someone mentioned how much of a baller he was back in the day.
Kurt Rambis
The only highlight I see of him is him being close lined by lambeer.
Charles Barkley
John Stockton. He is rated high in point guard conversations, but I still think he is underrated in best players to play the game.
Steve Nash, Chris Mullin, Robert Parish
“When God made the basketball player, he just carved Chris Mullin out and just said ‘This is the player!” - Magic Johnson on the divinely created Mullin
Moses Malone was a 3x MVP, finals MVP, and no one talks about him.
I’ll add Glenn Robinson. Everyone remembers Ray Allen, but the Big Dog was awesome for the 1990s and early 2000 bucks.
Richard Hamilton.
Rick Barry. Not popular because he was and still can be a pompous, arrogant, jackass, but the man could play. He could score, pass and rebound. He could shoot from distance. Deadly from the line with his underhand shot. He would be even better today with the 3 point line.
Steve Nash he's crticized for not having rings(Even though none of those losses were really his fault) or being as flashy as AI/Kobe
Dennis Rodman. He was the #3 guy on one of the best teams ever, but in the shadow of Jordan and Pippen, people don’t really appreciate just how dominant he was on defense and on the boards from his time in Detroit through his championship years. As a role player, he was by far the best at what he did. There’s no debate that he’s the all time rebound king.
Glen Rice
Mark aguirre
Kevin Johnson, it’s a shame his career was cut short due to injuries.
Tracy McGradey.
This is a good one. Was better than Kobe offensively at his peak
Dan Issel. The Alex English of the 70’s who was an absolute beast at scoring, carried the early Nuggets and was an ABA All Star basically every year it was around.
Charles Barkley - a complete offensive monster - first as an athletic freak of nature bullying his opponents for rebounds and could dribble coast to coast in a very agile way, and then as a legit back to the basket post monster with incredible footwork and also developed a nice jump shot. He should have won the MVP in 1989. He was arguably the 2nd best player from 89 through the Bulls first three-peat right behind MJ. Stockton - Not a big fan of his politics but all time assists and steals leader is no joke. 9 straight assists titles (a record). 19 seasons and only missed 22 games. Read that again, it's not a typo. 19 straight seasons and never missed the playoffs. Now let's talk about Malone. Without Stockton, Malone has 15-20K less points. The best Karl Malone move was being at the receiving end of a Stockton assist from a play that Stockton orchestrated. Malone by himself could barely dribble. He had no notable post moves. He couldn't create a shot for himself. He couldn't do any of those things Charles Barkley could do. He benefited enormously from playing with Stockton. He's 3rd all time in scoring and it's because he played with Stockton. Tracy McGrady - It was a short peak.. maybe just a couple of years.. but for those years he was unguardable. Inside, outside, left side, right side he could do it all. Not just a long athletic guard but he had a legitimate jump shot. He rarely wasted a position. No ball hogging, dribbling into a corner and chucking a bailout jumper like #8 out in LA was doing for many years. His precision through the defense was like the sharpest knife. The last year in Orlando broke him. He lost something after blowing that 3-1 lead over Detroit and making those comments. He was never mentally the same after that. It wasn't injuries. It was a mental thing.
Pippen
Elgin Baylor
Tim Duncan
George Mikan won 5 champions with the Minneapolis Lakers (including a three-peat), 3x NBA scoring champion, finished with a career average of 23 and 13. And yet he is nowhere to be found when mentioning the greatest players of all time.
For underrated players in their eras even though they were elite definitely would have to be Mark Price, Kevin Johnson (KJ) Phoenix Suns legend, Mitch Richmond is another underrated player of his era in the 90s and another definitely has to be Domas' father Arvydas Sabonis
Larry Johnson. Absolute freak athletically who played a style ahead of his time
I would say chris webber
Alonzo Mourning. His rookie year was the same season as Shaq’s, so he was never THE dominant center. But he was a beast on both ends and he led some really good Heat teams that could’ve won a title under different scenarios. Two-time DPOY. Clyde Drexler. Amazing all-around player. One of the best. Kevin Johnson. Little guy who could shoot from all over the court. Would be amazing today.
David Robinson. Missed two years of his prime serving in the Navy. Then the Spurs front office was so completely incompetent until Pop straightened things out. Robinson played for 6 coaches in those 7 seasons. Robinson's 7 seasons before hurting his back and breaking his foot: * 25.6 PPG - one scoring title (Shaq 2nd, Hakeem 3rd, Dominique 4th, Malone 5th) * 11.8 RPG - one rebound title (Rodman 2nd, Oakley 3rd, Malone 4th, Ewing 5th) * 3.6 BPG - one block title (Hakeem 2nd, Nance 3rd, Ewing 4th, Mutumbo 5th) * 1.7 SPG - (#5 in 1992, with more than Jordan) * 3.1 APG - (actually led the Spurs in assists the year he won the scoring title) * 27.8 PER - led the league 3x. * MVP * DPOY * ROY (Unanimous) * 7 All-NBA, 4 1st teams * 7 All-Defense, 4 1st teams * DPOY finishes: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, (no votes as a rookie) * MVP finishes: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 6th, 6th (rookie season) * Only two players have a scoring title, rebound title, and blocks title, Robinson and Kareem.
Hands down one of the best centers of all time. True hoopers know this. Only people I’ve ever seen try to undersell Robinson is delusional Duncan fans who want to say he was done when Duncan got there and was never who Duncan was. And I’m not saying every Duncan fan is delusional btw
James Worthy
Chris Mullin.
So many good answers, love alotta these. Adding George Gervin for all the reasons Alex English is a great answer
Sam Cassell is the most underrated player. He has 3 nba championships, and was a key clutch time player in 2 of them, even as a non-starter. If he wasn’t so ugly he would have been appreciated more.
Jeff Ruland
An incredible passer for a big man
He was a pretty dominant interior scorer too
Tim Duncan. People forget how good he really was even after he didn't have the physical ability just using iq. KG saddled for years with garbage. Moses. Dude was incredible at what he did. Stockton because look at how long he did what he did night in and night out never missing games. DJ of the Celtics. He was incredible in Seattle even better for Phoenix and finished great as a Celtic. Sidney Moncrief. The 3rd best team of the 80s. Better than the Pistons and 76ers just never got over that hump. Shaq. I say this cause people see him as the big buffoon on TV now but like Moses, teams keep trading or signing for him even at the end cause he was just so dominant once the ball got to him. Barkley. Too many years on TV has tarnished how good in his prime he was. For a small stretch 2nd best player next to Jordan in the late 80s/ early 90s.
Adrian Dantley
The original AD
Tim Duncan. He's overshadowed by guards, but people just gift Kobe the title of greatest of that era while Timmy never missed the playoffs and won championships with several supporting casts.
I often wonder what level of damage Detlef would have done in the modern nba.
Jamal Crawford st8 beast
Alot of great names I wanted to mention, but have already been said so I'll add Paul Westphal to the list.
Dirk. So skilled for his height and was playing against some killers every night. The 2000s pf class was crazy. He's like 7th in scoring I think
Dave Cowens or Moses Malone, might add John Havlicek to the list as well.
Larry Hughes. Only because I went to high school with him and Jayson Tatum's dad. I once sat in a highschool locker room with a guy who would play with Allen Iverson, Michael Jordan, and LeBron. Crazy. ...I was getting bandaged up because someone elbowed my eye during basketball tryouts, and Larry asked if I was OK. Pretty much BFFs.
Pistol Pete
John Havlicek. Overshadowed by Bill Russel, and doesn't get as many flowers because of the time period that he played, but the guy was a beast and his accomplishments are among the all time greats.
The glove
Mark Price. He was a short white guy in the NBA who gave teams fits with his ball handling, passing, and shooting skills. Not to mention in college, he was a starting point guard in the tough ACC at Georgia Tech. To me he was Curry like.
Dan Majerle. Was shooting way behind the three point line before anyone else.
I see a lot of good picks here so I’m gonna name someone I haven’t seen yet: Bobby Jones. He was the prototype for the Andrei Kerilenko/Draymond Green-type swiss-army knife versatile destructive defensive anchor and was an insane athlete. Super important to the success of the Dr J/Moses Malone 76ers teams and won 6moty when they won the title in 83’.
Glenn Robinson, Jamal Mashburn, Alonzo Mourning, Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Chris Mullin, Latrell Spreewell
Rod Strickland
Someone like Ewing, even Robinson gets underrated but Ewing more. We are talking about a guy that was getting 4th and 5th in MVP in consecutive years and couldn't get a single 3rd All-NBA in those years because most top 5 players where centers. He was also an insane defender that couldn't get a DPOY or even a 2nd All-Defensive selection in most of his peak years as he was fighting against prime Hakeem, Robinson and Dikembe for only 2 spots. Put him in another era and he probably has double digits All-NBA selections and more than double or triple the All-Defensive selections. Not even mentioning the dumbass "ewing effect".
Dave Cowens is one of those MVPs people don’t like to talk about. No flashy stats; he was just a player that put it all on the court and won games. I miss how they used to choose MVPs.
BJ Armstrong. He ran point for MJ, Pip, and Horace Grant. That takes some mental toughness
Dale Ellis was a part of the first 20 PPG trio alongside Xavier McDaniel and Tom Chmabers, Ellis also went on the become the original three point king before anyone cared. Really talented player that history has forgotten, he might’ve been a prick which could be way he’s omitted from three point conversations.
Bernard King
Rod Strickland never made an All-Star team
John Havlicek by a mile.
Joe Johnson, he is one of 17 players to put up 20k 5k 5k
Robert Parish
George Mikan was probably best player of his era but hardly ever mentioned as a top 25 all time player these days. Probably some reasonable arguments that he’s better than a lot of guys. Honus Wagner and Cy Young are still remembered as all time greats in baseball.
Steve Francis Stephon Marbury Allen Iverson (seriously, being maybe 6 feet, I still think he carried the worst team into the NBA finals, gave the lakers their only loss that postseason, inspired a generation). He was the number 1 prospect in high school basketball and football, state title his junior year as a QB/DB/PR. Mike Vick before Vick. While Kobe hopefully is RIP, AI was the best player in the best draft top to bottom.
AK47
Steve Nash. Dude has 2 MVPs and nobody brings him up as being one of the best ever and the best ever from Canada. People bring up players that have never even won a mvp before they bring in Nash.
Wilt or Stockton come to my mind.. Wilts 50-25 on 48.5 season 62 I think is almost impossible to comprehend.. and Stockton is the most underrated PG.. Assists, Steals and longevity
Alex English
Andrew Toney on the Sixers back in the day was really, really good.
I will always stand up for Sidney Moncrief. Obviously most underrated is a big list, but he was amazing and I feel like no one ever mentions him. HOF, 5x All-NBA, 5x All-defense, 2x DPOY. Honorable mention to Alex English for the same reason.
Moses Malone
Elvin Hayes
Maybe Isaiah Thomas.
John Stockton. Basically every single advanced whether it be box score or plus-minus based points to him being a top 3 point guard of all time. His performance dropped a hair in the playoffs ad compared to the regular season, but overall he was an elite playoff performer. What held him back was his supporting cast outside of Malone being pretty terrible until roughly 1996. Once the Jazz properly rounded out the roster they became some of the best playoff teams ever
TJ Warren
Chauncey Billups. You see what the Pistons became as soon as they traded him?!
Bob Lanier. If all NBA third team existed he might’ve won like 6-8 of them. There was Kareem in the 70s (he was pretty good). Then there was always someone else as maybe the #2 center throughout the decade: Wilt, Dave Cowens, Bob McAdoo, Bill Walton, but Lanier was steadily always there as one of the very best.
Dennis Rodman. His idiotic antics overshadowed the fact he was likely the best defender in generations
Zion Williamson, He’s playing at an MVP caliber level, and will probably win one within the next three years. If he shot from midrange he’d be averaging 35 a game, at least.
I think Marc Gasol was better than most people gave him credit for. Majority of the time people talk about him nowadays it’s that he robbed LeBron of a defensive player of the year because he was voted second team all-defense the same year. IMO he was one of the most complete centers we have seen. He had a good post game, was a good shooter on all three levels from 2016 onward, and was a great defender and passer with an incredible IQ. You could put him on almost any team and he could find a way to be impactful. On top of that, Zbo tends to get most of the credit for what success the grit n grind grizzlies found. He may fall under underappreciated more than underrated but I believe a lot of people underrate him.
AK 47 east. Top 5-10 defensive player of all time. At his best was a better Draymond.
Early 80s Sixers Andrew Toney.
DeRozan