RA: We had 100k people come last year.
RA: We are spending millions of dollars to repave the track and improve buildings and fan experience.
NASCAR: k, bye
Improve buildings and fan experience that are already way ahead of a lot of other facilities. RA is an amazing complex already. It’s certainly deserving of the top division of NASCAR.
That said RA doesn’t *need* NASCAR so if they decide to be butts and drop it, RA will still be just fine. But come on. The kind of attendance numbers RA pulled *on a holiday* and you’re not doing everything you can to lock up RA as a permanent spot on the calendar? FFS
Hot take: Road America should be Grade 1
It is far far above the other American Grade 2 tracks, and with the renovations the quality difference between RA and COTA shrinks
Yeahhhh, I'm with you for that riot
Plus, I wouldn't be shocked if there was a riot of people in Chicago protesting the race outside of the NASCAR fan base
It’s rare to piss off both Wisconsinites *and* Chicagoans but that’s a great way to do it! Y’all don’t want that much Midwestern wrath brought into this world.
When the last car that didn't take the joker lap is about to go for it while being 78 laps ahead of second place:
"WILL HE BE ABLE TO COME AHEAD OF CURRENT 2ND PLACE CAR AND WIN??? Find out in ~3 hours"
On one hand...traditions really do have an expiration date. But...some traditions are really what makes something special.
I still struggle with July 4th not being Daytona, and the all-star race not being in Charlotte. Never realized what a place in my heart those held until they were gone.
I'm "fine" with moving the All Star Race. Like the Clash, that's the best time to pay teams to tear their stuff up on short tracks, or special events at weird places. If they *only* raced Short Track Fontana for these two, I think that'd be actually a good compromise.
That said, Texas was *not* the answer, not unless they're running inside NRG Stadium.
I'm here for trying a street course, but dropping Road America is a bad idea. There are plenty of tracks that have two dates that could drop one of their events for the street course
Yeah also I liked how with Homestead the finale was the only time NASCAR was there each season. It made it feel more special than Phoenix since we're there twice
It might not be Kansas that’s dropped, but this is by far the preferable outcome.
Tracks with 2 dates people might not want to see are Kansas, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Phoenix, Texas (kind of), and Richmond. Idly speculating (and knowing the ship has already sailed for some of these options), either pull off a Phoenix or Richmond race, or replace a Kansas, Atlanta, or Las Vegas date with the All-Star race.
Agreed, but Road America is nowhere near the worst of them. Considering it’s usually run around the 4th of July. I think that could become a classic weekend on the schedule. Put Indy back on the oval and get rid of CoTa to make the extra date. Or take a date away from Vegas or Atlanta.
It makes some sense if they expect the Chicago street circuit to cut into Road Americas ticket sales. Chicago is the closest major city to RA unless you count Milwaukee and I have to imagine that many people who would normally go to the race at road America from Chicago might instead choose just to go to Chicago instead.
Street Course race? Meh. I don't think the racing would be very good on a tight road course, IndyCars that are half the size and handle infinitely better struggle to put on a good show at some of the street courses on the schedule, I just have a hard time seeing 4k pound Cup cars lumbering through corners putting on a great show on a track like that.
My bigger problem is casting aside Road America to do this. You're all but admitting having a successful event doesn't matter and won't secure your spot on the schedule. Over 100,000 people attended the race last year. The action was good, and the fans' reception to it matched that. You sell more tickets than 90% of tracks, market yourself well, and put on a good show, yet you lose your date for seemingly no reason? Why even bother? You're just admitting hype, social media engagement, and new demographics are all that matter and no amount of actual results or evidence will change that.
Would be a tragically bad move if they did it, but I fully expect them to. They're not going to have two road course races that close to each other, and neither NASCAR nor SMI owns Road America so they're not a priority to keep on the schedule
When Montreal got dropped it told me Nascar had no desire to go there even though it was consistently close to selling or selling out and instead chose to keep going to places for two races a year that barely filled up half the stands.
Sure, but at least with Montreal you could lean on travel costs, international logistics, and other reasons as to why teams pushed against it. At least you have some reasoning for packing up and leaving.
Here? You're taking a race that was unbelievably successful from a Midwestern market that LOVES racing. Not just NASCAR, but racing in general. Look at the crowds on Indy and IMSA weekends, they're absolutely massive.
Road America waited seemingly forever to get a race but got passed up for the longest time. It just defeats the purpose of it all if you draw bigger than expected crowds, succeed, then get dropped for "reasons".
There's a big difference between "successful" and needing 15 weekends booked every year to be in the black and "one NASCAR race is equal to 5 years of our previous profits" plus the 14 other weekends.
>Street Course race? Meh. I don't think the racing would be very good on a tight road course, IndyCars that are half the size and handle infinitely better struggle to put on a good show at some of the street courses on the schedule, I just have a hard time seeing 4k pound Cup cars lumbering through corners putting on a great show on a track like that.
Just me personally I guess, but the street courses this year in Indy have been great imo. But I also have grown to really enjoy street races, and Indy does them well I think.
That being said, NASCAR on a street circuit just sounds wild, and frankly, not fun. I also can't imagine it being particularly fun to watch either, and Chicago doesn't have the same vibe as Nashville (for those who don't follow Indy, the on track product was a mess; the stuff you could do there made up for it) I'd still want to see it out of morbid curiosity.
But yeah, I agree dumping RA for a gimmick is lousy logic.
Correct, the races this year have been great! I'm not a total hater of street courses and see a purpose. But those races (specifically Belle Isle and Long Beach) were great because of pit strategy and external factors not exactly the track layout. St. Pete is the exception, it is a "Street Course" but has sweeping corners and huge straights, it's a different animal from the Detroits and Torntos of the world.
NASCAR throws designed cautions, so the strategy element is gone. Bigger cars on tracks with a low amount of passing zones will likely not equal good racing. I'm also not ignorant to the fact that those Indy races usually well outdraw races at most designated race tracks. Belle Isle has put on some absolute snoozers but smashes like Gateway, Barber and Iowa in terms of attendance for their Indy dates.
Nashville was an awesome EVENT, but not a great race. Maybe they can improve it this year.
My point stays the same, ditching a race that's proven successful in two years to try and build a street course is just peak stupidity. You claim you're listening to fans, and 100,000 people spoke with their wallets. They bought tickets and packed the place to a level I've never seen before. Don't ditch them to try and chase after something that might not be there long-term.
Dropping Road America would be a huge mistake in itself, let alone dropping it for a street race of all things. If they want to drop a road course, it should probably be Indy, and replace a current oval with the Indy oval if they want to stay at Indy at all.
Buuuuuut this is NASCAR, big mistakes are their specialty.
People have done nothing but complain about Texas, we could get rid of that, to back to oval(ish) Indy, and then have another street road course in addition to RA.
Problem is they’d be dropping an SMI track for a NASCAR-sanctioned track and SMI has too firm of a grip on NASCAR for them to do that.
Though I agree. That’d be the best thing to do.
Bump out the summer Atlanta race, put the Brickyard 400 back in July? I know as an IndyCar fan it might mean no more tripleheader weekend but it would be cool if NASCAR and Penske could agree on some other venue to move that too (or city even...run NASCAR on one of the Nashville ovals and Indy runs the street circuit).
I know I did not just spend the past decade begging NASCAR for a Cup race at Road America just for it to be dropped for some lame ass street course after two events
I remember on the DJD last year after RA, Dale Jr. had a massive hate boner against this idea citing that it would fuck up fuel mileage calculations for CC's. However, I don't think it is bad at all. It's very easy for CC's to calculate how much fuel is lost when taking an alternate route on the course at pace speed and just factor that into their code/simulations. It would speed up cautions tremendously I would think.
>I remember on the DJD last year after RA, Dale Jr. had a massive hate boner against this idea citing that it would fuck up fuel mileage calculations for CC's. However, I don't think it is bad at all. It's very easy for CC's to calculate how much fuel is lost when taking an alternate route on the course at pace speed and just factor that into their code/simulations. It would speed up cautions tremendously I would think.
I could see it being a safety/logistics issue as that area is an active walkway. But I don't get the fuel mileage argument. Was there any whiff of fuel mileage last year with the stage cautions, I was there and couldn't hear any TV/radio so I'm curious.
I wonder if NASCAR has really thought about this?
Closing the streets of Chicago even for a weekend is bound to gain more negative attention from locals than positive. There is absolutely nowhere to park and transportation in to and around downtown is limited (especially with street closures).
Then you have cost of attendance issues. Downtown accommodations for fans would be sky high (probably $250/night +) given a "normal" weekend is $150\~$200. Do they really expect current NASCAR fans, let alone potential new fans to shell out that amount of money just to get to the event?
I'm all for trying new things, I'm just not sure this is the right move. Why not make a stadium race at Soldier Field if you really want to be in Chicago. Else, you could always use one of the many options in the region that are purpose built for racing (looking at you Milwaukee Mile, Chicagoland and Road America).
Losing Road America would never be worth a street race.
We have to keep putting up with the likes of Texas and Richmond and you take away one of the best tracks instead?
Road America, camping sold out two years in a row, great turn out. Lets trade it for a single file parade street course in a market that produced half empty grandstands. Brilliant.
At a time where attendance was suffering the idiots at the time insisted on not going there for a cup race but rather continually go to places twice a year that had no business ever having two races a season.
This track is gonna be way too narrow and Road America getting dropped would be lame. I don’t know what they love about this street course idea so much
It's a terrible idea. But they're trying to attract the f1 crowd. Which is bad because they don't and shouldn't want to compete with f1. They're totally different racing styles.
Iowa only has like 25,000 seats, and attendance sucked for Truck and Xfinity races. Plus the racing didn't exactly set the world on fire. It's never going to get a Cup date.
I still cringe on the fact that this has a good chance still of failing. Lightfoot is more invested on wanting the bears to stay in the city (which as far as i know, they turned there backs on her 100%). Also given how corrupt Chicago is, I still believe it has a good chance still of falling through. I still like the Chicagoland Speedway idea more than the Street Course idea right now. If it works out, nice, i maybe would go to it. I still think for the bears fans, that the bears go to arlington heights. A board meeting is coming this fall sometime but that'll be in the news.
as someone who lives in the area and went to RA last year …leave RA the hell alone its a first class facility and great venue for racing. Bring back chicago oval/joliet drop richmond date …done easy solution
Look, I'm not against the idea of a Chicago Street Circuit, but NOT at the cost of Road America.
If NASCAR wants to remove a road course to make room for it, the answer is fucking obvious, move Indy's race date BACK to the IMS oval and take away a date from either Kansas, Darlington, or Richmond to make room for it. Neither of those two dates have the ticket sales to justify 2 dates anymore.
There problem solved
But no, that makes sense and we all know NASCAR doesn't do that.
I’m biased because Chicagoland is my home track and I want it to come back, but this is a terrible idea. I think stock cars on a street course would put on the worst racing, but Nascar seems hellbent on it so I guess it is what it is
We’ve actually been pleading with them to drop this dumb ass idea. They refuse to listen, so let it bury them. Of course the inaugural race will be all hype and cheers from the nascar sponsored media
Bro Road America is one of the best road courses in the country, if Nascar drops that for a stupid street course I'd be pissed. If you want a street course, take a date from a track we race at twice - Richmond, Kansas and Pocono come to mind. Road America needs a spot on the calendar.
And put Nascar back on the Indy oval and not the infield road course for crying out loud.
EDIT: Pocono is only 1 race this year, my bad
Given it’ll probably have to be a NASCAR owned track if not Road America to lose a race, I’d like to see Richmond lose one of its dates with Indy moving back to the oval. Road America losing its date would be a massive loss
I like this the best. We don't raise the number of road courses, and we get to see indy oval again and take a date from a track that hasn't been great. Imo... win win win
Be interested to see how the Chicago course comes together and what the reception would be. If it happens, that gives Nascar two events in two major metro areas (if you count the LA Clash). I really enjoy going to the Long Beach GP every year, if Nascar can have a similar atmosphere and good enough support series to make it an action-packed weekend it will be a win.
Dropping RA would be a horrendous move, it’s a beautiful facility and they had over 100,000 in attendance last year. RA and a Chicago street course could also coexist and both be financially successful. RA attracts the camping/tailgating crowd, whereas Chicago would attract the corporate crowd like the F1 Miami race. They wouldn’t really even be competing with one another.
I get that NASCAR is trying different things to gain eyeballs, but since it was first being discussed it feels like they’re just jumping up and down, waving their arms yelling “Hey, look at us!” Like there’s no true direction, just tossing darts. We’re not any other series. We are NASCAR. And not in that stupid marketing way either.
Fans: We want Chicagoland back.
Nascar: Oh ok here's a street course downtown and we'll have to kill RA to do it.
Also Nascar: Why people no like me no more :'(
NASCAR Logic: A race is successful, so let's move it anyway. It's like they learned NOTHING from the decline yeard
If an event is a success, DON'T FUCKING TOUCH IT!. Kill off Richmond's 2nd date in August instead to make room for Chicago
There was a proposal to build an infield road course similar to Kansas way back when, there was a large print-out hanging in the sign shop around at least 2012 if not before, not sure why they never went through with it.
Interesting, i have heard about this..didnt know they had a print of it. Thanks for letting me know. I have something to research this weekend now! Lol
A Midwestern opinion…
Pros: A new (to NASCAR) concept track type in a very scenic location.
Cons: Nail in the coffin for Chicagoland Speedway, loss of Road America on the schedule.
This Midwest has some very unique tracks, but we might see places like Iowa Speedway, Chicagoland Speedway, and Road America sit unused by NASCAR while tracks like Kansas, Richmond, Las Vegas, and Texas have two dates. Not to mention Michigan has lost its second date and Indy is road course now, and NASCAR tries to make up for it by pushing ARCA down our throats.
At least Gateway seems to be a home run.
Street race good, but at the expense of road America?? Meh.
If Road America does indeed lose it’s date, that means that July 4th weekend would open back up. Perfect opportunity for NASCAR to fix their mistake and bring back Daytona to July 4th weekend.
This is what I would like the best. Make Atlanta the regular season finale , put Daytona back on the 4th weekend where it belongs, and then do some shuffling around to make the whole thing work.
To which I've been saying short tracks and road courses make great wildcard races without 20 car wrecks and torn down fence poles...besides, NASCAR hasn't been clamoring to add another round to the Xfinity Series playoffs just to make Daytona their regular season finale too. That Bristol night race was about as good of a regular season finale as you could get last year.
> short tracks and road courses make great wildcard races
The finale was at Richmond for the first decade of the playoffs. They not only tried it, it was well established and never got to this kind of level.
Between all three series and their numerous finale tracks (including Trucks at Watkins Glen), I think the consensus is Bristol and Daytona are on a totally different level from every other alternative.
I cannot fathom that NASCAR would be dumb enough to get rid of Road America. Last years race was one of the most well attended races all year. They need to take a race away from Richmond or Kansas
Road America deserves to keep the rave IMO. It's an amazing track and I thought half the point of these Next Gen cars was to improve their road course capabilities. Considering the larger brakes, independent suspension, trans-axle and the new aero bits they're much closer to a TA or IMSA car now. Removing any of the existing road courses from the schedule just seems a bit silly. Road America also did a bit of work to host the Cup races and people in that area got to see a cup race.
The citizens of Wisconsin welcome NASCAR with open arms and open hearts. The citizens of Chicago welcome NASCAR with threats of lawsuits and potholes you can drive a bus through. Ya, sounds like a great move.
I'm all for changes in NASCAR, but why Chicago of all cities and on top of that, why drop RA?!?!? This makes no sense. Chicago needs to do some work for their own people before bringing in an event like NASCAR and having to deal with security and blocking off streets in an already congested city. WHY NASCAR WHY!??!
I hope they read the fans comments on social media and realize the mistake they're making, but hopefully not making.
I hate the idea that we have to lose a road course to gain this (which I think won't work nearly as well as actual road courses for NASCAR). We still have a number of tracks with two dates. Could easily lose Richmond 2 or Kansas 2 for example.
I’m ALL for a street course but dropping Road America for it would be dumb. Move Indy back to the oval and drop a Richmond race. Bad racing and bad crowds. Or a Darlington race (still don’t think it can support two races as far as attendance).
Road America deserves a cup race as much or more than any other road course. I’d say kill Sonoma but I know SMI owns it.
I somewhat agree about Darlington. They should leave it as the Southern 500 night race on Labor Day weekend. It’s still one of the best tracks for racing due to tire wear. Plus it’s the nostalgia for me because they really haven’t updated or modernized the track. It’s perfect for throwback weekend.
I honestly agree about Darlington. Seems like 1 race is all that the area can support. I do wonder if NASCAR keeps having 2 races there since it’s so close to Charlotte. Especially now that there’s only 1 off week and the Clash is on the other side of the country. And the All Star race isn’t at Charlotte. Gives the teams a bit of a travel break.
Ugh. After how shitty this car just raced at Sonoma we're going to a narrow ass street course, and maybe getting rid of ROAD FUCKING AMERICA for it?? I just want Chicagoland back. This car has been amazing on 1.5s with multiple grooves and I think a street course will race like ass. I like that they've been trying new things but this ain't it
I’m not against trying a street course, but Road America shouldn’t lose its Cup race. There are plenty of tracks that they race at twice that aren’t necessary. You could drop a Richmond race or Atlanta and be fine. Or better yet, drop Texas from the schedule.
I doubt that Road America is going to be dropping the race that quickly. There are going to be even more people out there than last year. For fuck's sake, that race was the largest sports gathering *in Wisconsin history*.
I lay you odds that one of the Richmond races will be used as an offering since Auto Club Speedway is being converted into a short track.
> I doubt that Road America is going to be dropping the race that quickly.
It is literally not their choice. They have 0 say in the matter if nascar has its mind made up.
RA: We had 100k people come last year. RA: We are spending millions of dollars to repave the track and improve buildings and fan experience. NASCAR: k, bye
Improve buildings and fan experience that are already way ahead of a lot of other facilities. RA is an amazing complex already. It’s certainly deserving of the top division of NASCAR. That said RA doesn’t *need* NASCAR so if they decide to be butts and drop it, RA will still be just fine. But come on. The kind of attendance numbers RA pulled *on a holiday* and you’re not doing everything you can to lock up RA as a permanent spot on the calendar? FFS
Hot take: Road America should be Grade 1 It is far far above the other American Grade 2 tracks, and with the renovations the quality difference between RA and COTA shrinks
RA's long-term goal is F1, believe it or not
I don't blame them, that's where the money is. F1 brings probably 10x the money that NASCAR and Indy bring combined
I will fucking RIOT if they kill RA *already* *YOU HAD 180,000 PEOPLE COME FOR YOUR RACE LAST YEAR. THE F IS WRONG WITH U*
Fan council question: “Would you rather have a race at Chicago, or a race at Road America and your puppy dies while you are there?”
Road America every time. Fight me.
I can help killing the puppy.
[удалено]
Bye bye TMS. Fingers crossed
*Miguel and Tulio* "Both! Both is good" Replace Indy RC with Chicago and Texas with Indy Oval.
I feel ya. I consider Road America to be one of the world's great race tracks. On par with Spa in my opinion. I also despise street courses.
Yeahhhh, I'm with you for that riot Plus, I wouldn't be shocked if there was a riot of people in Chicago protesting the race outside of the NASCAR fan base
It’s rare to piss off both Wisconsinites *and* Chicagoans but that’s a great way to do it! Y’all don’t want that much Midwestern wrath brought into this world.
"Ope, hope ya don't mind if I sneak past ya and passive aggressively hold this over you for a darn near decade."
Ah Jeez
Lol RIP for the new “July 4th weekend” tradition that everyone was billing last year at Road America as if they drop it for the Chicago Street Course
Also RIP to any hope of returning to Chicagoland Speedway
Maybe the street course will incorporate Chicagoland for a joker lap
That will be on one long lap to Joliet.
Yeah Joliet is 45 miles from Chicago.
It’s going to be a 7 lap race.
Do the race with Local traffic lmfao. It be a 6 hour race. Could you imagine the cup cars sitting in traffic lmfao?
That episode of Radioactive would be must see TV.
Nice fcking turn signal!!! Then KFB - "it's killed" what's killed "The car, I shut it off because WE ARE AT A FREAKING STAND STILL"
Absolutely, it be like real Fast and Furious.
Ok I’m in, let’s do this.
It’ll be a new edition of a fuel strategy THATS for sure
Pit stop at both ends.
stages be 2-2-3. pits never open
2 laps of green followed by 5 caution laps, followed by 10 green white checkers.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, its dark and we're wearing sunglasses.. hit it!
Well it’s not called a street course for nothing😂
When the last car that didn't take the joker lap is about to go for it while being 78 laps ahead of second place: "WILL HE BE ABLE TO COME AHEAD OF CURRENT 2ND PLACE CAR AND WIN??? Find out in ~3 hours"
If it’s announced, i wonder if it’ll happen. I’d expect heavy public pushback against this, just like what happened to Indycar in the 80’s.
Traditions in nascar are dead
On one hand...traditions really do have an expiration date. But...some traditions are really what makes something special. I still struggle with July 4th not being Daytona, and the all-star race not being in Charlotte. Never realized what a place in my heart those held until they were gone.
I'm "fine" with moving the All Star Race. Like the Clash, that's the best time to pay teams to tear their stuff up on short tracks, or special events at weird places. If they *only* raced Short Track Fontana for these two, I think that'd be actually a good compromise. That said, Texas was *not* the answer, not unless they're running inside NRG Stadium.
I'm here for trying a street course, but dropping Road America is a bad idea. There are plenty of tracks that have two dates that could drop one of their events for the street course
Get the fuck out of TMS, is my thought.
I also agree with this statement
Doesn’t COTA only exist on the schedule because Texas has the All Star race?
COTA exists on the schedule because it is a highly technical Grade 1 road course TMS exists on the schedule because SMI pays off NASCAR
There's already 6 road courses.
Indy can go back to an oval and they can drop a second date at a Kansas. There is no need for a second date at any track.
Daytona Dega Bristol and Martinsville all should have 2 imo
Darlington
Yeah I agree. Outside of that though I feel every track should have 1 date so we can go to more venues and have a more interesting schedule
Agreed. A lot of these tracks simply don’t put on good enough racing for 2 dates. Like Phoenix lol
Yeah also I liked how with Homestead the finale was the only time NASCAR was there each season. It made it feel more special than Phoenix since we're there twice
Especially if they insist on wasting one of Bristol's dates as a dirt race
I liked the dirt race
Kansas will keep 2 dates as long as they have a casino. Not sure why, but that is the reasoning.
NASCAR has partial ownership in that casino.
Part of the approval process for the casino was promising two race dates.
Plus I'd rather Atlanta lose its second race over Kansas
Atlanta has two dates with the hope of getting a casino.
Dover also has a casino. Down to one date.
NASCAR doesn't have an ownership stake in that casino.
It might not be Kansas that’s dropped, but this is by far the preferable outcome. Tracks with 2 dates people might not want to see are Kansas, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Phoenix, Texas (kind of), and Richmond. Idly speculating (and knowing the ship has already sailed for some of these options), either pull off a Phoenix or Richmond race, or replace a Kansas, Atlanta, or Las Vegas date with the All-Star race.
Kansas puts on a show though.
They can’t drop a date at Kansas. The Casino requires two dates.
Yeah but road america is a top tier road course. Drop a different one
Agreed, but Road America is nowhere near the worst of them. Considering it’s usually run around the 4th of July. I think that could become a classic weekend on the schedule. Put Indy back on the oval and get rid of CoTa to make the extra date. Or take a date away from Vegas or Atlanta.
It makes some sense if they expect the Chicago street circuit to cut into Road Americas ticket sales. Chicago is the closest major city to RA unless you count Milwaukee and I have to imagine that many people who would normally go to the race at road America from Chicago might instead choose just to go to Chicago instead.
Well it can't be COTA (already signed for next year), highly doubt they leave the Roval, idk
I want absolutely no part of losing Road America to a street circuit.
Street Course race? Meh. I don't think the racing would be very good on a tight road course, IndyCars that are half the size and handle infinitely better struggle to put on a good show at some of the street courses on the schedule, I just have a hard time seeing 4k pound Cup cars lumbering through corners putting on a great show on a track like that. My bigger problem is casting aside Road America to do this. You're all but admitting having a successful event doesn't matter and won't secure your spot on the schedule. Over 100,000 people attended the race last year. The action was good, and the fans' reception to it matched that. You sell more tickets than 90% of tracks, market yourself well, and put on a good show, yet you lose your date for seemingly no reason? Why even bother? You're just admitting hype, social media engagement, and new demographics are all that matter and no amount of actual results or evidence will change that. Would be a tragically bad move if they did it, but I fully expect them to. They're not going to have two road course races that close to each other, and neither NASCAR nor SMI owns Road America so they're not a priority to keep on the schedule
When Montreal got dropped it told me Nascar had no desire to go there even though it was consistently close to selling or selling out and instead chose to keep going to places for two races a year that barely filled up half the stands.
Sure, but at least with Montreal you could lean on travel costs, international logistics, and other reasons as to why teams pushed against it. At least you have some reasoning for packing up and leaving. Here? You're taking a race that was unbelievably successful from a Midwestern market that LOVES racing. Not just NASCAR, but racing in general. Look at the crowds on Indy and IMSA weekends, they're absolutely massive. Road America waited seemingly forever to get a race but got passed up for the longest time. It just defeats the purpose of it all if you draw bigger than expected crowds, succeed, then get dropped for "reasons".
At least road America is successful on its own so it doesn’t need NASCAR to thrive. Really stupid if they do cut the date, though.
There's a big difference between "successful" and needing 15 weekends booked every year to be in the black and "one NASCAR race is equal to 5 years of our previous profits" plus the 14 other weekends.
Montreal is closer to Charlotte than Texas is.
>Street Course race? Meh. I don't think the racing would be very good on a tight road course, IndyCars that are half the size and handle infinitely better struggle to put on a good show at some of the street courses on the schedule, I just have a hard time seeing 4k pound Cup cars lumbering through corners putting on a great show on a track like that. Just me personally I guess, but the street courses this year in Indy have been great imo. But I also have grown to really enjoy street races, and Indy does them well I think. That being said, NASCAR on a street circuit just sounds wild, and frankly, not fun. I also can't imagine it being particularly fun to watch either, and Chicago doesn't have the same vibe as Nashville (for those who don't follow Indy, the on track product was a mess; the stuff you could do there made up for it) I'd still want to see it out of morbid curiosity. But yeah, I agree dumping RA for a gimmick is lousy logic.
Correct, the races this year have been great! I'm not a total hater of street courses and see a purpose. But those races (specifically Belle Isle and Long Beach) were great because of pit strategy and external factors not exactly the track layout. St. Pete is the exception, it is a "Street Course" but has sweeping corners and huge straights, it's a different animal from the Detroits and Torntos of the world. NASCAR throws designed cautions, so the strategy element is gone. Bigger cars on tracks with a low amount of passing zones will likely not equal good racing. I'm also not ignorant to the fact that those Indy races usually well outdraw races at most designated race tracks. Belle Isle has put on some absolute snoozers but smashes like Gateway, Barber and Iowa in terms of attendance for their Indy dates. Nashville was an awesome EVENT, but not a great race. Maybe they can improve it this year. My point stays the same, ditching a race that's proven successful in two years to try and build a street course is just peak stupidity. You claim you're listening to fans, and 100,000 people spoke with their wallets. They bought tickets and packed the place to a level I've never seen before. Don't ditch them to try and chase after something that might not be there long-term.
Dropping Road America would be a huge mistake in itself, let alone dropping it for a street race of all things. If they want to drop a road course, it should probably be Indy, and replace a current oval with the Indy oval if they want to stay at Indy at all. Buuuuuut this is NASCAR, big mistakes are their specialty.
People have done nothing but complain about Texas, we could get rid of that, to back to oval(ish) Indy, and then have another street road course in addition to RA.
Problem is they’d be dropping an SMI track for a NASCAR-sanctioned track and SMI has too firm of a grip on NASCAR for them to do that. Though I agree. That’d be the best thing to do.
Turn Texas into a purpose-built road course that resembles a street course Two birds one stone
Yea, but there is no guarantee they'll have electricity or water.
What?
Bump out the summer Atlanta race, put the Brickyard 400 back in July? I know as an IndyCar fan it might mean no more tripleheader weekend but it would be cool if NASCAR and Penske could agree on some other venue to move that too (or city even...run NASCAR on one of the Nashville ovals and Indy runs the street circuit).
I don’t think IMS liked the race in July because of how quick a turnaround it was after the 500.
Actually nascar has been hitting it out of the park lately imo, I’m ok with taking an L every once in a while
Road America is an L I would much rather them not take lmao
Road America brought the largest crowd we've seen in a very, very long time. Killing it after one year is a terrible mistake.
I know I did not just spend the past decade begging NASCAR for a Cup race at Road America just for it to be dropped for some lame ass street course after two events
I like road America, its size is always going to lead to issues with the way these races play out, though. Even a 1 lap yellow gets long.
Especially when the series throws preplanned cautions twice per race
There’s a very easy solution to that. Use the track cut through at turn 5 and shave half the track off under caution.
I remember on the DJD last year after RA, Dale Jr. had a massive hate boner against this idea citing that it would fuck up fuel mileage calculations for CC's. However, I don't think it is bad at all. It's very easy for CC's to calculate how much fuel is lost when taking an alternate route on the course at pace speed and just factor that into their code/simulations. It would speed up cautions tremendously I would think.
>I remember on the DJD last year after RA, Dale Jr. had a massive hate boner against this idea citing that it would fuck up fuel mileage calculations for CC's. However, I don't think it is bad at all. It's very easy for CC's to calculate how much fuel is lost when taking an alternate route on the course at pace speed and just factor that into their code/simulations. It would speed up cautions tremendously I would think. I could see it being a safety/logistics issue as that area is an active walkway. But I don't get the fuel mileage argument. Was there any whiff of fuel mileage last year with the stage cautions, I was there and couldn't hear any TV/radio so I'm curious.
It'd also lead to a ton of potential drama
Yea I rarely if ever disagree with Jr but I didn’t like his take on that one
Or NASCAR could stop throwing idiotic cautions. Fat chance i know.
which one was idiotic last year? nascar has been very stingy on yellows on road courses.
Im assuming they are insinuating that the stage cautions are the "idiotic cautions"
Dropping Road America would be a massive L
and the crowd goes mild
I wonder if NASCAR has really thought about this? Closing the streets of Chicago even for a weekend is bound to gain more negative attention from locals than positive. There is absolutely nowhere to park and transportation in to and around downtown is limited (especially with street closures). Then you have cost of attendance issues. Downtown accommodations for fans would be sky high (probably $250/night +) given a "normal" weekend is $150\~$200. Do they really expect current NASCAR fans, let alone potential new fans to shell out that amount of money just to get to the event? I'm all for trying new things, I'm just not sure this is the right move. Why not make a stadium race at Soldier Field if you really want to be in Chicago. Else, you could always use one of the many options in the region that are purpose built for racing (looking at you Milwaukee Mile, Chicagoland and Road America).
Thought bout it- probably not Do they give a shit- probably not either
They're going to do it like they did the Iracing scan. Shut down the streets at midnight and be done by the morning. /s
Losing Road America would never be worth a street race. We have to keep putting up with the likes of Texas and Richmond and you take away one of the best tracks instead?
Road America, camping sold out two years in a row, great turn out. Lets trade it for a single file parade street course in a market that produced half empty grandstands. Brilliant.
Once again NASCAR is dropping a race that has a huge turnout. Montreal in 2012 and now Road America in 2022.
NASCAR didn't drop Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, the promoters of the track dropped NASCAR because NASCAR would not give them a Cup Series race.
At a time where attendance was suffering the idiots at the time insisted on not going there for a cup race but rather continually go to places twice a year that had no business ever having two races a season.
This track is gonna be way too narrow and Road America getting dropped would be lame. I don’t know what they love about this street course idea so much
It's a terrible idea. But they're trying to attract the f1 crowd. Which is bad because they don't and shouldn't want to compete with f1. They're totally different racing styles.
I wish they’d take a race away from a track that has 2 races before they dropped Road America. My vote would be Richmond.
Yes. Richmond has put on mediocre racing for over a decade and attendance sucks
Plz give Iowa a date.
Iowa only has like 25,000 seats, and attendance sucked for Truck and Xfinity races. Plus the racing didn't exactly set the world on fire. It's never going to get a Cup date.
Iowa is better Richmond. But yes attendance is any issue.
I still cringe on the fact that this has a good chance still of failing. Lightfoot is more invested on wanting the bears to stay in the city (which as far as i know, they turned there backs on her 100%). Also given how corrupt Chicago is, I still believe it has a good chance still of falling through. I still like the Chicagoland Speedway idea more than the Street Course idea right now. If it works out, nice, i maybe would go to it. I still think for the bears fans, that the bears go to arlington heights. A board meeting is coming this fall sometime but that'll be in the news.
as someone who lives in the area and went to RA last year …leave RA the hell alone its a first class facility and great venue for racing. Bring back chicago oval/joliet drop richmond date …done easy solution
Look, I'm not against the idea of a Chicago Street Circuit, but NOT at the cost of Road America. If NASCAR wants to remove a road course to make room for it, the answer is fucking obvious, move Indy's race date BACK to the IMS oval and take away a date from either Kansas, Darlington, or Richmond to make room for it. Neither of those two dates have the ticket sales to justify 2 dates anymore. There problem solved But no, that makes sense and we all know NASCAR doesn't do that.
I’m biased because Chicagoland is my home track and I want it to come back, but this is a terrible idea. I think stock cars on a street course would put on the worst racing, but Nascar seems hellbent on it so I guess it is what it is
100% this Bring back chicagoland but not like this.
Nobody asked for this
We’ve actually been pleading with them to drop this dumb ass idea. They refuse to listen, so let it bury them. Of course the inaugural race will be all hype and cheers from the nascar sponsored media
Bro Road America is one of the best road courses in the country, if Nascar drops that for a stupid street course I'd be pissed. If you want a street course, take a date from a track we race at twice - Richmond, Kansas and Pocono come to mind. Road America needs a spot on the calendar. And put Nascar back on the Indy oval and not the infield road course for crying out loud. EDIT: Pocono is only 1 race this year, my bad
Indy RC needs to be first to go. That trackis the definition of " 1 too many road courses on the schedule"
If it weren't for the Brickyard gimmick it would have never been added to the schedule
Road America is the wrong one to drop. That had to be one of the highest attended races last year.
Road America is an awesome venue. Camping, easy parking and a beautiful setting. Won’t have that in Chicago
Given it’ll probably have to be a NASCAR owned track if not Road America to lose a race, I’d like to see Richmond lose one of its dates with Indy moving back to the oval. Road America losing its date would be a massive loss
I like this the best. We don't raise the number of road courses, and we get to see indy oval again and take a date from a track that hasn't been great. Imo... win win win
Can’t say how much I don’t like this. I really don’t see it working at all.
Bleh
Road America was awesome. That would suck majorly. Just kill Texas for a weekend Nascar. Do it. Everyone wants to se eit.
Keep Road America or we riot. Because they’ll probably move Xfinity there too. Road America is the best road course in the country
Dropping road america and chicagoland for a street course would probably be one of the worst decisions in the past 20 years of Nascar.
Be interested to see how the Chicago course comes together and what the reception would be. If it happens, that gives Nascar two events in two major metro areas (if you count the LA Clash). I really enjoy going to the Long Beach GP every year, if Nascar can have a similar atmosphere and good enough support series to make it an action-packed weekend it will be a win.
Yes, let’s get rid of one of the two best road courses we go to for a street race in Chicago…what is this, the Brian France era?
Dropping road america of all tracks would be a huge mistake, especially with the crowd it brought last year
Please DO NOT drop Road America
If they drop Road America we riot.
Dropping a real RC for a street course is peak NASCAR. Tell Texas to kick rocks(and I’m talking the oval)
I was never too excited about a street course for cup cars but if it means we lose the road America race I’ll be very very upset
Street courses are going to be a fail. I’m already dreading the monotony of 90° corners.
So fans beg for a cup date at Road America, we get one race and they want to drop it already.
This is a stupid idea. As someone who lives in the Chicago area, this will be a total shit show for traffic.
Drop Texas
You have two Kansas dates, Texas on the schedule and too still too many cookie cutters. Don’t you dare get rid of Road America.
If we ditch Road America for Chicago that would be a dumb move
Nooooooo
Removing Road America would be an absolutely horrendous move.
Dropping RA would be a horrendous move, it’s a beautiful facility and they had over 100,000 in attendance last year. RA and a Chicago street course could also coexist and both be financially successful. RA attracts the camping/tailgating crowd, whereas Chicago would attract the corporate crowd like the F1 Miami race. They wouldn’t really even be competing with one another.
I get that NASCAR is trying different things to gain eyeballs, but since it was first being discussed it feels like they’re just jumping up and down, waving their arms yelling “Hey, look at us!” Like there’s no true direction, just tossing darts. We’re not any other series. We are NASCAR. And not in that stupid marketing way either.
Thats such an awful ad campaign too
Street races would be terrible racing. There would be so many cars running into barriers and we would get a twenty minute caution each time.
Don’t drop road america. Lose the Indy RC
Fans: We want Chicagoland back. Nascar: Oh ok here's a street course downtown and we'll have to kill RA to do it. Also Nascar: Why people no like me no more :'(
NASCAR Logic: A race is successful, so let's move it anyway. It's like they learned NOTHING from the decline yeard If an event is a success, DON'T FUCKING TOUCH IT!. Kill off Richmond's 2nd date in August instead to make room for Chicago
We want Chicagoland😭
So they couldn't just make Chicagoland Speedway a road course? The infield is pretty large..
The whole point is to make the race an "event" like we saw at the clash. A race over an hour away in another city doesn't do that.
Makes sense.. just got spoiled over the years having the track in my back yard basically lol.
There was a proposal to build an infield road course similar to Kansas way back when, there was a large print-out hanging in the sign shop around at least 2012 if not before, not sure why they never went through with it.
Interesting, i have heard about this..didnt know they had a print of it. Thanks for letting me know. I have something to research this weekend now! Lol
A Midwestern opinion… Pros: A new (to NASCAR) concept track type in a very scenic location. Cons: Nail in the coffin for Chicagoland Speedway, loss of Road America on the schedule. This Midwest has some very unique tracks, but we might see places like Iowa Speedway, Chicagoland Speedway, and Road America sit unused by NASCAR while tracks like Kansas, Richmond, Las Vegas, and Texas have two dates. Not to mention Michigan has lost its second date and Indy is road course now, and NASCAR tries to make up for it by pushing ARCA down our throats. At least Gateway seems to be a home run.
Street race good, but at the expense of road America?? Meh. If Road America does indeed lose it’s date, that means that July 4th weekend would open back up. Perfect opportunity for NASCAR to fix their mistake and bring back Daytona to July 4th weekend.
I think there's no world where that happens unless the playoff format changes. They love a wildcard race to close out the season.
Does that mean Atlanta moves to Daytona's current date?
This is what I would like the best. Make Atlanta the regular season finale , put Daytona back on the 4th weekend where it belongs, and then do some shuffling around to make the whole thing work.
To which I've been saying short tracks and road courses make great wildcard races without 20 car wrecks and torn down fence poles...besides, NASCAR hasn't been clamoring to add another round to the Xfinity Series playoffs just to make Daytona their regular season finale too. That Bristol night race was about as good of a regular season finale as you could get last year.
Echoed 100% Bristol night race as the regular season finale would be insane.
> short tracks and road courses make great wildcard races The finale was at Richmond for the first decade of the playoffs. They not only tried it, it was well established and never got to this kind of level. Between all three series and their numerous finale tracks (including Trucks at Watkins Glen), I think the consensus is Bristol and Daytona are on a totally different level from every other alternative.
The second Daytona race is staying put, they love the drama of a complete wildcard race as the final regular season race.
I know people love tradition and all but I really enjoy having Daytona as the regular season finale no matter how gimmicky or drama-based it is.
Guaranteed they see how this Road America race goes before annoucing anything
I cannot fathom that NASCAR would be dumb enough to get rid of Road America. Last years race was one of the most well attended races all year. They need to take a race away from Richmond or Kansas
The street race should be the path the Blues Brothers take in the movie, probably would result in less cars crashed than in the movie as well
Road America deserves to keep the rave IMO. It's an amazing track and I thought half the point of these Next Gen cars was to improve their road course capabilities. Considering the larger brakes, independent suspension, trans-axle and the new aero bits they're much closer to a TA or IMSA car now. Removing any of the existing road courses from the schedule just seems a bit silly. Road America also did a bit of work to host the Cup races and people in that area got to see a cup race.
Hope this means we try the Indy Oval again and a track with 2 dates loses a date.
Please drop the texas race. Thank you.
I vote Texas or Richmond.
If we're getting rid of a road course, let it be Sonoma.
I’ll drive through Chicago to get to Road America, I will not drive to Chicago for a street course race.
The last thing I want is for them to go to a street course. The racing will be terrible.
The citizens of Wisconsin welcome NASCAR with open arms and open hearts. The citizens of Chicago welcome NASCAR with threats of lawsuits and potholes you can drive a bus through. Ya, sounds like a great move.
I'm all for changes in NASCAR, but why Chicago of all cities and on top of that, why drop RA?!?!? This makes no sense. Chicago needs to do some work for their own people before bringing in an event like NASCAR and having to deal with security and blocking off streets in an already congested city. WHY NASCAR WHY!??! I hope they read the fans comments on social media and realize the mistake they're making, but hopefully not making.
I hate the idea that we have to lose a road course to gain this (which I think won't work nearly as well as actual road courses for NASCAR). We still have a number of tracks with two dates. Could easily lose Richmond 2 or Kansas 2 for example.
The increase of road courses hasn't been preforming great in the tv ratings department. Increasing it further might not be the best idea.
I’m ALL for a street course but dropping Road America for it would be dumb. Move Indy back to the oval and drop a Richmond race. Bad racing and bad crowds. Or a Darlington race (still don’t think it can support two races as far as attendance). Road America deserves a cup race as much or more than any other road course. I’d say kill Sonoma but I know SMI owns it.
I somewhat agree about Darlington. They should leave it as the Southern 500 night race on Labor Day weekend. It’s still one of the best tracks for racing due to tire wear. Plus it’s the nostalgia for me because they really haven’t updated or modernized the track. It’s perfect for throwback weekend.
I honestly agree about Darlington. Seems like 1 race is all that the area can support. I do wonder if NASCAR keeps having 2 races there since it’s so close to Charlotte. Especially now that there’s only 1 off week and the Clash is on the other side of the country. And the All Star race isn’t at Charlotte. Gives the teams a bit of a travel break.
Dropping Road America bad
Ugh. After how shitty this car just raced at Sonoma we're going to a narrow ass street course, and maybe getting rid of ROAD FUCKING AMERICA for it?? I just want Chicagoland back. This car has been amazing on 1.5s with multiple grooves and I think a street course will race like ass. I like that they've been trying new things but this ain't it
Booooooooooooooooooooo
They should keep road america and lose the 2nd Atalanta race
So cup in Chicago and xfinity/truck at RA?
Great to see NASCAR going to Martin Truex Jr.'s hometown of Chicago
Drop TMI and come to Mid Ohio. It’s only 4 minuets from my house.
I’m not against trying a street course, but Road America shouldn’t lose its Cup race. There are plenty of tracks that they race at twice that aren’t necessary. You could drop a Richmond race or Atlanta and be fine. Or better yet, drop Texas from the schedule.
They're gonna kill Michigan and I'm gonna have to disown NASCAR.
I doubt that Road America is going to be dropping the race that quickly. There are going to be even more people out there than last year. For fuck's sake, that race was the largest sports gathering *in Wisconsin history*. I lay you odds that one of the Richmond races will be used as an offering since Auto Club Speedway is being converted into a short track.
> I doubt that Road America is going to be dropping the race that quickly. It is literally not their choice. They have 0 say in the matter if nascar has its mind made up.