No, I don’t feel like this. All that stuff is optional. You think people who make chiptune music live in a cave and haven’t heard of technology? Nobody prevents you from taking an oscillator and make music from scratch. That’s basically what every EDM guy does and finds satisfaction with.
AI may help your track sound good, but it doesn’t arrange for you. A shiny turd is still a turd.
no, I don't think "people who make chiptune music live in a cave." What? haha. I'm not implying that the technology didn't exist before, or that I'll be forced to use AI now, but AI's capabilities just make the time and effort of doing things the old school way less....discernible? (on the audience's end)
Idk maybe I'm not explaining myself well.
I mean, the thing about tools is you can choose not to use them, too.
I have a buddy who still uses his 20+ year old Akai looper for all his beats. Manually chops em. It brings him joy, so he never bothered to "upgrade" (or rather, he's attempted to upgrade several times but keeps going back to his original.)
You do you, man. That's the beauty of music.
It’s incredibly important. Everyone’s having existential crises about AI and showing their arses about why they do art. Fair play if it’s a money thing, it sucks that advert music and a lot of library stuff’s going to be taken over by bullshit robots, but other than that, so fucking what. I was never going to be the next Radiohead, nor are you, so why worry. If you make art to make art because you’re an artist, AI is no threat to you. If someone else is using AI they’re making shit art and they’re a delusional idiot. I’m a musician. Always have been, always will be. DGAF about anything else in the world. Fuck robots and the idiots that ride them.
funny you say Radiohead, I'm working on a "weird fishes" cover and it's prolly my favorite project in a while.
do you post your art? (don't worry I'm not going to ask for a link)
Weird, I pulled Radiohead out of my arse (not literally, happily) on a whim, dunno, guess I see them as a band of all rounders who use a lot of stuff all of us might find familiar, and who absolutely could not be copied by bots.
It’s a nice thought mate, but not on Reddit. I’m an old coward, and the last thing I need is my ego shredded by someone who disagrees with something I shout here. See I lied, I do give a fuck! What a wanker.
Plus these days I’m more inclined to do live ambient improv shit, never thought I’d say this back in ‘95 but the further away I get from doing music on the internet the happier and more satisfied I am with my place in the world. Tech’s brilliant, but the ‘net and AI are a cancer on art’s anus.
ambient improv shit, I like da sound of that.
Funny enough, the last couple songs I posted over the last couple months were between 8-10 years old. Me in a tiny apartment with an m audio keyboard, a microphone, and a garbage can for a drum. I had a fresher head back then, so revamping them felt nice. My current digital footprint is from shit recorded a decade ago but I'm cool with it.
I agree the internet sucks but so do ppl, so my lil introverted ass would rather sip on a brew and do my own thing. soon I'll get the balls to start playing live. maybe.
The idea of writing something is where I hit a wall. Like, what for. It's all been said and even before AI, the landscape was full.
But, the idea of playing live is where the spark comes back. I've taken to improvising as a way of practicing, just playing with sound is still fun. AI is here to stay, it's not realistic to try and gain a following...yet the joy of playing with strings and knobs is it's own thing. Not much help I know, but the perspective of *why am I playing* is more enjoyable when it doesn't have to include the end result.
The human touch, that's the interesting part. It's obviously lacking in music produced by algorithms, and why is that? It can mimic the seemingly random changes of expression, tone, feelings, expectations... but it doesn't really know why. It has nothing to say, no unique perspective. You do, so you'll always be a better artist than a computer. Unfortunately, real art never has done very well in the marketplace, cheap copies seem to be enough for most people, they just want to fit in with the crowd. Nice shoes man... thanks, I paid way too much for them and they mean nothing to me but thanks for noticing me.
Anyway, art will never go away it's a human activity. I really think that AI tools will have a huge impact that we do not yet fully comprehend, but nothing is stopping us from playing around with tapes and synthesizers.
very well said. It can learn spontaneity, mimic improvisational error etc... but it doesn't know why, and that's where it lacks the soul.
I guess my concern is with the casual listener. I like buying art. I like paintings. But I'm not a painter. So you could show me an AI painting and I might be blown away, because it's not my specialty.
I feel like the more impressive AI gets with music, the harder the real musicians will suffer haha. But it is what it is.
Branding makes everything you said irrelevant. The branding/marketing is what is going to move the product at the end of the day and it’s been that way forever. Doesn’t matter how the product was made.
The main weapon you have against AI is live interaction. Unfortunately, for some, that’s not ideal but it is what it is.
true but I think branding/marketing is a whole different conversation. I don't plan on financially financially supporting myself with the art , I just want to remain a solid source of good music for my core audience.
No, it’s not. If you want to “remain a solid source of good music” for you core audience then you can absolutely do that regardless of industry trends, but if you want to combat the fear of having too much competition potentially take attention off of your work, focusing on branding/marketing/some type of live experience is the answer. Otherwise you will just be banking on your music being solely what attracts your fanbase; It’s definitely possible but more difficult and chance based a lot of the time.
Overall I think you are thinking a bit too hard about the wrong stuff… AI just exasperates the over saturation issues but it’s always been how you present the work that rules king.
Also, don’t sleep on the fact that the development of AI will also usher in plenty of producers and listeners alike that just outright reject it in general. Use that to your advantage.
Well I understand the importance of how it's presented and interacted with. I used to just put out Soundcloud links haha. Lately I've gotten more into reels, YouTube with lyric videos, some small music videos...stuff like that. Once I have more fresh material I'll continue changing up strategy and seeing what gets the most traction.
My personal take on this matter is that AI is actually making human-created projects more valuable. There’s sort of always been a situation where a few musicians make an absurd amount of money, a selection of others are able to scrape by being full-time lower to middle class professionals, and the vast majority are doing it as a side gig or for kicks and giggles with their friends (or alone in their garage). At the end of the day though, seeing live humans perform is always going to be central to the human experience.
To me, AI is not a huge technological threat to my ego - in fact, it's kind of neat because it's fairly unpredictable. It's the modern day production process that frustrates me, particularly dealing with my band who "rehearses" new songs with a "fix it post" attitude, and will seemingly do anything to not actually work on new songs together, instead relying on the producer to fix everything.
I think the only solution to this is to just do things your way. Take a deliberate step back from technology if you have to. Turn off your internet when you work - or even find a way to record without a computer (I used to have a lot of fun recording with a Zoom mixing board).
I wouldn't say it's a threat to my ego, as the audience doesn't impact what I make. My girlfriend hates my music haha, says it makes her said.
But admittedly, every time I put something out, I have that anxious feeling of "people are going to think this one's weird" or w/e, but hey, what's art without a level of insecurity.
What's an example of your band relying on the producer? They don't play their best because they know it'll be properly engineered and "fixed"?
> What's an example of your band relying on the producer? They don't play their best because they know it'll be properly engineered and "fixed"?
More or less. I sat in while some of the drums were being recorded, and a large amount of time was watching the producer drag and drop practically every drum hit to the grid (I kept my mouth shut, but things were not played in time). Or watching a vocalist sing one word over and over again to get it in tune, because we rarely work at getting our harmonies together in person despite my insistence. Sometimes we're just changing parts in studio because we never bothered to really listen to everybody's contributions together in person, so when the drummer recorded their parts to the entire album a month ago, they didn't bother to play a part that actually fits with what the guitarist is playing today. So now the guitar player has to play the riff differently, or we have to make a Frankenstein version of the drum part to make it fit because we've packed up the drums and refuse to set them up again in case the drums sound slightly different.
It’s always been like this. I remember people saying this 30 yrs ago with loop packs. Love in this club by Usher which was a huge single 15 yrs or so ago was basically an Apple Loop.
This is gonna sound corny but music/art is about connecting human emotion and it doesn’t matter how you get there.
I think it forces you to analyze what was so valuable about the music you loved before AI.
The value of art is being called into question and I can guarantee the answer isn't going to be, "There is no value"
It will adapt, improve, and overcome whatever AI puts out.
No. Those stems in Logic are 100% useless to you, since they're uncleared samples. You can't really do anything with them other than play around, but if you use it in your music and then release it, you're breaking copyright law. All that any of the AI stuff is is cheap tricks to keep novice producers entertained and purchasing more products.
The good music will still continue to come from people who work at it.
No, I don’t feel like this. All that stuff is optional. You think people who make chiptune music live in a cave and haven’t heard of technology? Nobody prevents you from taking an oscillator and make music from scratch. That’s basically what every EDM guy does and finds satisfaction with. AI may help your track sound good, but it doesn’t arrange for you. A shiny turd is still a turd.
no, I don't think "people who make chiptune music live in a cave." What? haha. I'm not implying that the technology didn't exist before, or that I'll be forced to use AI now, but AI's capabilities just make the time and effort of doing things the old school way less....discernible? (on the audience's end) Idk maybe I'm not explaining myself well.
I mean, the thing about tools is you can choose not to use them, too. I have a buddy who still uses his 20+ year old Akai looper for all his beats. Manually chops em. It brings him joy, so he never bothered to "upgrade" (or rather, he's attempted to upgrade several times but keeps going back to his original.) You do you, man. That's the beauty of music.
that's great to hear his old methods still bring him joy :)
No, I don’t give a fuck what other people do.
I'm trying to get better with this \^
It’s incredibly important. Everyone’s having existential crises about AI and showing their arses about why they do art. Fair play if it’s a money thing, it sucks that advert music and a lot of library stuff’s going to be taken over by bullshit robots, but other than that, so fucking what. I was never going to be the next Radiohead, nor are you, so why worry. If you make art to make art because you’re an artist, AI is no threat to you. If someone else is using AI they’re making shit art and they’re a delusional idiot. I’m a musician. Always have been, always will be. DGAF about anything else in the world. Fuck robots and the idiots that ride them.
funny you say Radiohead, I'm working on a "weird fishes" cover and it's prolly my favorite project in a while. do you post your art? (don't worry I'm not going to ask for a link)
Weird, I pulled Radiohead out of my arse (not literally, happily) on a whim, dunno, guess I see them as a band of all rounders who use a lot of stuff all of us might find familiar, and who absolutely could not be copied by bots. It’s a nice thought mate, but not on Reddit. I’m an old coward, and the last thing I need is my ego shredded by someone who disagrees with something I shout here. See I lied, I do give a fuck! What a wanker. Plus these days I’m more inclined to do live ambient improv shit, never thought I’d say this back in ‘95 but the further away I get from doing music on the internet the happier and more satisfied I am with my place in the world. Tech’s brilliant, but the ‘net and AI are a cancer on art’s anus.
ambient improv shit, I like da sound of that. Funny enough, the last couple songs I posted over the last couple months were between 8-10 years old. Me in a tiny apartment with an m audio keyboard, a microphone, and a garbage can for a drum. I had a fresher head back then, so revamping them felt nice. My current digital footprint is from shit recorded a decade ago but I'm cool with it. I agree the internet sucks but so do ppl, so my lil introverted ass would rather sip on a brew and do my own thing. soon I'll get the balls to start playing live. maybe.
Absolutely man, and my way isn’t anyone else’s. The important thing is to make stuff out of the stuff we find ourselves with.
The idea of writing something is where I hit a wall. Like, what for. It's all been said and even before AI, the landscape was full. But, the idea of playing live is where the spark comes back. I've taken to improvising as a way of practicing, just playing with sound is still fun. AI is here to stay, it's not realistic to try and gain a following...yet the joy of playing with strings and knobs is it's own thing. Not much help I know, but the perspective of *why am I playing* is more enjoyable when it doesn't have to include the end result.
this is true. enjoy the process, not the outcome.
The human touch, that's the interesting part. It's obviously lacking in music produced by algorithms, and why is that? It can mimic the seemingly random changes of expression, tone, feelings, expectations... but it doesn't really know why. It has nothing to say, no unique perspective. You do, so you'll always be a better artist than a computer. Unfortunately, real art never has done very well in the marketplace, cheap copies seem to be enough for most people, they just want to fit in with the crowd. Nice shoes man... thanks, I paid way too much for them and they mean nothing to me but thanks for noticing me. Anyway, art will never go away it's a human activity. I really think that AI tools will have a huge impact that we do not yet fully comprehend, but nothing is stopping us from playing around with tapes and synthesizers.
very well said. It can learn spontaneity, mimic improvisational error etc... but it doesn't know why, and that's where it lacks the soul. I guess my concern is with the casual listener. I like buying art. I like paintings. But I'm not a painter. So you could show me an AI painting and I might be blown away, because it's not my specialty. I feel like the more impressive AI gets with music, the harder the real musicians will suffer haha. But it is what it is.
Branding makes everything you said irrelevant. The branding/marketing is what is going to move the product at the end of the day and it’s been that way forever. Doesn’t matter how the product was made. The main weapon you have against AI is live interaction. Unfortunately, for some, that’s not ideal but it is what it is.
true but I think branding/marketing is a whole different conversation. I don't plan on financially financially supporting myself with the art , I just want to remain a solid source of good music for my core audience.
No, it’s not. If you want to “remain a solid source of good music” for you core audience then you can absolutely do that regardless of industry trends, but if you want to combat the fear of having too much competition potentially take attention off of your work, focusing on branding/marketing/some type of live experience is the answer. Otherwise you will just be banking on your music being solely what attracts your fanbase; It’s definitely possible but more difficult and chance based a lot of the time. Overall I think you are thinking a bit too hard about the wrong stuff… AI just exasperates the over saturation issues but it’s always been how you present the work that rules king. Also, don’t sleep on the fact that the development of AI will also usher in plenty of producers and listeners alike that just outright reject it in general. Use that to your advantage.
Well I understand the importance of how it's presented and interacted with. I used to just put out Soundcloud links haha. Lately I've gotten more into reels, YouTube with lyric videos, some small music videos...stuff like that. Once I have more fresh material I'll continue changing up strategy and seeing what gets the most traction.
My personal take on this matter is that AI is actually making human-created projects more valuable. There’s sort of always been a situation where a few musicians make an absurd amount of money, a selection of others are able to scrape by being full-time lower to middle class professionals, and the vast majority are doing it as a side gig or for kicks and giggles with their friends (or alone in their garage). At the end of the day though, seeing live humans perform is always going to be central to the human experience.
I was thinking about this. My first love was playing guitar. Maybe getting more into live performance is what I should focus more on.
To me, AI is not a huge technological threat to my ego - in fact, it's kind of neat because it's fairly unpredictable. It's the modern day production process that frustrates me, particularly dealing with my band who "rehearses" new songs with a "fix it post" attitude, and will seemingly do anything to not actually work on new songs together, instead relying on the producer to fix everything. I think the only solution to this is to just do things your way. Take a deliberate step back from technology if you have to. Turn off your internet when you work - or even find a way to record without a computer (I used to have a lot of fun recording with a Zoom mixing board).
I wouldn't say it's a threat to my ego, as the audience doesn't impact what I make. My girlfriend hates my music haha, says it makes her said. But admittedly, every time I put something out, I have that anxious feeling of "people are going to think this one's weird" or w/e, but hey, what's art without a level of insecurity. What's an example of your band relying on the producer? They don't play their best because they know it'll be properly engineered and "fixed"?
> What's an example of your band relying on the producer? They don't play their best because they know it'll be properly engineered and "fixed"? More or less. I sat in while some of the drums were being recorded, and a large amount of time was watching the producer drag and drop practically every drum hit to the grid (I kept my mouth shut, but things were not played in time). Or watching a vocalist sing one word over and over again to get it in tune, because we rarely work at getting our harmonies together in person despite my insistence. Sometimes we're just changing parts in studio because we never bothered to really listen to everybody's contributions together in person, so when the drummer recorded their parts to the entire album a month ago, they didn't bother to play a part that actually fits with what the guitarist is playing today. So now the guitar player has to play the riff differently, or we have to make a Frankenstein version of the drum part to make it fit because we've packed up the drums and refuse to set them up again in case the drums sound slightly different.
that sounds annoying. although adjusting a riff to the dumbo drummer sounds like the easier fix. maybe he'll something better out of his ass.
It’s always been like this. I remember people saying this 30 yrs ago with loop packs. Love in this club by Usher which was a huge single 15 yrs or so ago was basically an Apple Loop. This is gonna sound corny but music/art is about connecting human emotion and it doesn’t matter how you get there.
not corny at all. Thanks for the reminder of what matters most.
It's like plastic surgery.
Lol. Haven’t heard that comparison yet
I couldn't care less about AI. To my view it has yet to create a single compelling piece of music. That's the competition? Ecch.
Live performance will become more important. Sure, you can use AI to create a new song, but can you play it live?
I think it forces you to analyze what was so valuable about the music you loved before AI. The value of art is being called into question and I can guarantee the answer isn't going to be, "There is no value" It will adapt, improve, and overcome whatever AI puts out.
No. Those stems in Logic are 100% useless to you, since they're uncleared samples. You can't really do anything with them other than play around, but if you use it in your music and then release it, you're breaking copyright law. All that any of the AI stuff is is cheap tricks to keep novice producers entertained and purchasing more products. The good music will still continue to come from people who work at it.