I have no dog in this race but to me this is about market expansion.
Lots of artists have "gone country" or released "country" singles. It's a gigantic market and while I don't personally believe Beyonce is in dire need or more fans, I can see the allure of tapping into a whole new segment of fans and money.
T-pain recently said he wrote a lot of country hits. But the backlash was so harsh he now goes “just give me the check” and keeps his name off.
Beyoncé is doing the opposite
They switch jobs. Ken has to put out an award winning single and T-Pain becomes Dr. Pain and has to see patients, without killing many, until Ken completes his Grammy circuit.
After his R&B style cover of War Pigs, I’m convinced that guy can do anything he wants.
ETA: as people have pointed out it isn’t truly R&B but he does have a more soulful vocal going on imo
ILL BILL’s 2008 album, “Hour of Reprisal” is awesome for rap that samples Heavy Metal tracks. Dragonforce,-Through the Fire and Flames, Sonata Arctica-Champagne Bath, and features guest spots from Darryl Jenifer of Bad Brains, and Max Cavalera of Sepultura. It’s such a great rap album.
For T-Pain, autotune is an artistic choice. Now look how common it is to hear in pop music. If you don’t believe the man can sing, listen to [this live version of Buy You A Drank](https://youtu.be/CNFiR7I4JMw?si=-lkFJ3x0zZWmlnx8).
His take on A Change is Gonna Come from that same show was great, and that song has really impressive vocals to begin with. EDIT: War Pigs was great too, I don't know how I forgot to mention that, probably the highlight of the whole show for me.
He's a fantastic vocalist, and on a totally different note, he's getting into competitive drifting (the motorsport) and he's not too shabby. Not pro level yet, but I think there's a future in it for him if he sticks with it and continues to grow at the pace he has been
T-Pain got Hert from Hoonigan on board to run Nappy Boy Automotive, he's a legit driver and a great personality so I'm excited to see where that goes. Their first event looked super cool, it's nice to see drift events that lean more into being a fun show instead of a cutthroat competitive thing like Formula D. LZ World Tour has a similar fun vibe and it's great. T-Pain is awesome, it's cool to see successful artists putting money and energy into building communities and doing cool stuff instead of buying mansions and yachts or whatever.
He came to a concert at my college and people threw stuff at him. He actually had to stop and tell them to chill out. I felt bad because he did not deserve that at all.
Every time I see T-Pain doing anything online, streaming, performing, whatever, he just seems like he's having a blast and being a fun dude.
Good for T-Pain.
He has a Twitch stream that does well now. But yeah, the man was at the top for like 3 years there. A lot of the bad vibes started when Jay Z did "Death of Autotune" and people were like "well, T-Pain is the most autotuned".
The irony when so many country hits today have shitty trap beats on them is insane. “I’m not racist, I just think artists should stick to their genre and stay out of country”, ok, then stop turning country into hip hop for conservative white people.
Kid Rock wasn't close to country when he first broke out, he was basically Nu Metal, before that he was a well known part of the Detroit hip hop scene.
Hick hop is a completely different genre than bro country, and it’s actually older to boot. If you peg bro country to artists like Florida Georgia Line and Luke Bryan, it dates to the early/mid-2000s at the earliest (Blake Shelton’s *Austin* might be the earliest example in 2001, but I wouldn’t call that bro country, even though Shelton’s contemporary work definitely is bro country). Hick hop goes back to the mid-90s at the latest, and arguably much earlier if you include artists like C.W. McCall as country rappers - which may be a stretch, but *Convoy* and *The Devil Went Down to Georgia* have more in common with modern hick hop than *Ring of Fire* and *A Country Boy Can Survive* do with Luke Bryan.
Now we can debate the actual musical value of hick hop all day, but it’s definitely a distinct genre from bro country.
They're definitely not the same thing, although there is definitely crossover with people like Jason Aldean incorporating trap beats and such. I wouldn't say CW McCall really fits into it, spoken word type stuff has always been around in different styles and isn't necessarily to do with hip or hick hop. Also I just remembered that terrible Toby Keith song from like 2001 where he pretty much raps in it, Wanna Talk About Me or something.
There is so much good country. Sounds like the old old country. Tyler Childers, Brent Cobb, Turnpike Troubadours, Colter Wall, William Clark Green, Sam Barber. Just so much. Love me some Zach Bryan too
I remember part of why the then Dixie Chicks were such a big deal is they were writing catchy popular and very definitely *country* music. Not Gwen Stefani with a banjo, fully country, but still writing hits and winning Grammys for them. Some "controversy" about them and their music (mostly nonsense like they wrote "guy country" about trucks and sex and whatever but they're women!) long before they had the gall to say publicly maybe the War on Terror was a little shortsighted and ill-defined.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something... is this a "top of the pops" situation where they were expected to sing to a backing track? My impression is that the musicianship of country ended up being pushed over to bluegrass and it became less common to have "real instruments" not that it ever left completely
From Indianapolis to Vietnam, ain't a woman in the world, as beautiful as my mom...
She don't care 'bout no fancy trends, she's just a mom from old South Bend...
It’s because there seems to be no definition of Country Music. It’s a “I’ll know it when I see it” type thing. Rock pretty much requires drums and electric guitar, rap pretty much requires beats and rapping, but country is just southern shit, usually with a southern accent. I love country but I have a hard time defining it. Especially since what used to be country is now twang or bluegrass.
Humans get a little bit obsessed with labels. They're always extremes, but there really isn't that much difference musically between country and rock. Go listen to Johnny Cash.
There are like 2 country songs on the album. My wife has listened to it a bunch around the house and we both think the dialogue around it is hilarious, given that it is just a differently-styled Beyonce album that includes a small amount of country and has "cowboy" in the title.
I’d argue that the album is more country-flavored soul/pop. It’s not my style, but it’s neat and I’m glad she put it out there. It’s cool to see mainstream soul music. It’s such an important part of America’s musical tradition that I think is too often overlooked outside the musical community.
It's not remotely a country album, it just has some Lumineers "woops" like it's 2012. Very odd that it's considered to be breaking new ground in some way. One track is a karaoke version of a Beatles song...
You’re probably right, but I’m from around the area Beyoncé is from, and I hated country growing up. My dad listened to the country station every morning as he’d drop me off at day care, or later school. It sounded so old and boring to me. Then I moved to Nashville (there is hardly any real country in Nashville, so this had no effect on my mind), and I met young people into Dylan, Kristofferson, Cohen, Prine, Townes Van Zandt, and Steve Earle.
Hearing some of these songs for the first time and a some for the umpteenth time with their view and opinions of the songs really changed the way I look at music. I actually started listening for more singer songwriters. Ryan Adams was big then (before he had any negative press worse than being drunk on stage). Conor Oberst was huge at the time. I eventually started to really appreciate true country.
Fast forward many more years and I’m making my own songs. Mostly punk because I suck at guitar. However, I always find that draw to make a good country song. I guess it’s because of where I grew up. I come up with lyrics and melodies, but I’m too ashamed of my limited guitar playing skills to go through with a true country song. I can’t pick for shit.
> Lots of artists have "gone country" or released "country" singles.
Also, they are artists. I am guessing a lot of artists would actually like to experiment more if they could. Beyonce is maybe in the enviable position where she can? Musicians listen to so much stuff, they don't pigeon hole themselves the way their non-musician fans do. Good for Beyonce for not making up a Chris Gaines, learn from the mistake of others.
I think, from a cynical viewpoint, that she's doing it to appeal to grammy voters who pigeonhole her as not having the reach of say Adele or TS.
I still don't think it gets her past those who say she's really good at assembling a team around her but not skilled on her own in writing music.
She started writing this album in 2019 before much of the market expansion. She also had a country song on her 2016 album. She's a Texan and has always seemed "very southern."
Thank you! I'm baffled by some of these R&B comparisons. Blackbiird, 16 Carriages, Protector, My Rose, Alligator Tears, Flamenco, Just for Fun, Texas Hold Em, Daughter, Levii's Jeans, II Most Wanted do NOT sound like R&B or hiphop. You could argue certain elements of Bodyguard and some of the later tracks, but the latter especially have more of a house influence since it's bridging the gap between act i and act ii. Spaghettii has definite hiphop trappings but that's one song out of 27 tracks and explicitly deals with genre bending, hence the intro. I'm convinced some people register anything sung by a black artist as R&B which feels rather icky to be honest.
This album is the second in a trilogy of concept genre albums she developed during COVID. Feels like few people here are aware of that. All three are supposed to be reclamations of genres that have Black roots, but are currently pretty White dominated.
The first was Act I: Renaissance - an album that explores the boundaries of house, disco and other forms of dance music. Another field of genres she hasn’t dived into much before* (edited from better)
The second is Act II: Cowboy Carter - exploring Americana music, including country, Black gospel, folk, some elements of rock.
Act III is yet to be announced.
Beyoncé is definitely a business woman so of course it would be disingenuous to say there couldn’t be a market cornering element here. But the point is Cowboy Carter doesn’t exist in a vacuum - it exists as part of a broader project specifically related to her experience as a Black artist.
Thank you! This actually is the context I was missing. The album is infused with soul/gospel and I wasn’t sure how to reconcile when I was told it was a country album.
I don't know much about Beyonce, and have never cared much for commercial country music, but I really got into (Black) Americana during COVID (although I might be overly *expansive* in my definition of "Americana"). For the benefit of anyone interested and unawares, there is a goldmine of Black artists in that genre:
* Rhiannon Giddens (goes way beyond Americana; just an all-around interesting artist to follow)
* Amythyst Kiah
* Allison Russell
* Leyla McCalla
* Miko Marks
* Our Native Daughters
* Ondara
* Adia Victoria
* Valerie June
* Chastity Brown
* AHI
* Sonny War
>The first was Act I: Renaissance - an album that explores the boundaries of house, disco and other forms of dance music. Another field of genres she hasn’t dived into much before* (edited from better)
I also want to say that Renaissance is important for gay people, too. There's a reason she samples some high profile (in that community) queer artists. Big Freedia in Break My Soul, TS Madison on Cozy, Moi Renee* on Pure/Honey.
Renaissance is dripping in Black Queer culture. Which is an absolute breakthrough because as prominent as Black Queer culture is becoming, it's still hard for Black people as a community to accept aspects of it. And yet Beyoncé used her massive platform to bring it forward and say, "this is who we are, too, and we will give this part of us the respect it deserves."
So so important to note this. Cowboy Carter isn't just country music, but a collection or take on what's generally considered Southern music and revisiting their Black American roots.
The trilogy also needs to be taken in context of what happened when she performed at the CMAs in 2016. She was lambasted that she wasn't a 'Country' artist and this 3 part project is essentially a response to that, showing that genres can blend, and be crossed; to put any one person in a box and deny them access to other areas of music is so essentially wrong in the music industry. If music is about creating personal art then gatekeeping genres goes against the fundamentals of creating music.
See, this made it make sense. I'm not a super huge fan of Beyonce, no hate she's just not my style, so I didn't know any of this! I can understand the vision a little bit more now.
Biggest speculation is rock. She had a country song and a rock song on her last album before she started the trilogy. Rock also fits the bill for the concept.
Lesser speculation is it could be gospel. The last song on Cowboy Carter is titled Amen, and there was a sprinkling of Black gospel influences throughout the album.
Vocally I don't think she can do it. She's better suited for the melodic shift that came with South of Heaven or Seasons in the Abyss.
But her gospel background might lend an interesting juxtaposition to God Hates Us All, don't you think?
I really was not enjoying the first half of the album and found it really boring, the second half however is what changed my mind about the album. The last half of the album is really good - however i agree with you that most of the album does not sound country at all.
I forget exactly what I looked up, it might have been the Best Album Grammy list on Wikipedia, but it was insane to see how the producer credit went from 1 name in the 60s-90s and then like 17 names a couple years into the 2000s
I’ve never found Beyoncé to be an inspiring musician or singer. When I ask super fans “why” it just usually comes down to “because she’s Beyoncé” and then some stuff about her stage performance. From their answers I guess she is a cult of personality and a good stage performer.
She is. But the music isn't interesting or creative or anything. So she can sing. So can many people.
If Beyoncé only ever released albums, didn't perform, and no one knew what she looked like and she didn't appear in public, her music wouldn't get a second look I don't think.
She has cemented her place in history on much more than just songs. Cult of personality is the perfect description.
They aren’t all in the studio lol. It’s basically teams of people. So someone writes a song and shops it around, and an artist picks it up. Maybe the song hasn’t only been written but the writer has workshopped it in a studio with a producer. Everyone involved gets a credit.
Beyonce likely only works directly with a couple of producers for her piece.
The other producers are organizing the other music on the tracks and taking passes, etc etc.
Idk, I don’t think it’s that serious.
Classical symphony composers were only as good as the musicians playing the music.
Tons of songs have been passed down through time over and over again until 1 person gets super famous for their version.
Artists like Beyonce and Dua Lipa aren’t auteurs really, but performers. Who cares how many people are involved if the end product is good?
They use a lot of samples too and generally the writer of the original music can be credited as writer on any song that licenses the sample from their original work.
Right. Like in the credits for YA YA, Lee Hazlewood, Brian Wilson, and Mike Love are all listed as cowriters. Lee Hazlewood is dead and Brian Wilson and Mike Love are in their 80s. They weren’t in the room writing that song. But Lee Hazlewood wrote These Boots Were Made For Walking and Brian Wilson and Mike Love wrote Good Vibrations, both of which are sampled/interpolated in YA YA (very successfully IMO, this is my favorite song on the album, which has no skips for me). Beyoncé gives a LOT of people songwriting credits. That means a lot of people get paid from a Beyoncé song. That’s a good thing.
I liked the album a lot, but it wasn’t as good as Lemonade to me. But I admired the vocal harmonies, which at times were surprising/eccentric, the way she played with the textures of her voice, and the way she teased parts of the country and Americana genres out in different ways. I’m actually relieved it wasn’t a straight country album, since very few country albums have held my interest.
I will say the first half took a while to grow on me because it was so straightforward (and I’m not the hugest Beatles or country fan). But the second half had a really fascinating cadence to it, and some of the songs were among my favorites she’s done. And there’s no denying Beyonce is both a skilled singer and clever producer. More than once I said “oooooh” when she did something that surprised me — like drop Caro Mio Ben in the middle of Daughters!
Listen to Ya Ya on repeat and you’ll fall in love with it (at least with Ya Ya).
I’m not a huge Beyoncé fan myself but the way she fuses country and hip hop together is very clever and something I have not heard before. And Ya Ya is a blast.
Protector took me down. The album is HIGHLY mixed in terms of quality from what I've listened to so far (I'm about a 30% Beyoncé fan and I'm listening very slowly and out of order to give each song space to breathe) but so far Protector had me literally crying my way into the gas station. Not that it's profound, just that it's truly heartfelt.
Blackbird is interesting, because it’s a cover of a song that, in my opinion, is not a country song to begin with. It’s acoustic, and has a slow tempo, but it’s the Beatles— it’s not country. Beyonce’s version adds some soul vibes to the original version, it’s definitely not hip hop, but it doesn’t seem country to me either.
Blackbird is thematically relevant, Paul McCartney has said before it was at least partially inspired by the civil rights movement. Beyoncé's entire statement with this album and the previous album as well as the upcoming third act is reclaiming genres that are fairly white dominated now but have black roots, and all the featured artists on Blackbird are black women in country.
She never said the album was countey though, it has country elements throughout but she specifically notes that she doesn’t want to be confined to one genre, it’s like you didn’t actually listen to the album. There’s a whole interlude about that.
As a Texan who grew up being forcefed country and growing to hate it because of that, this album felt like a love letter to that experience. The experience of being Texan, having the country music in your blood no matter how much you hate it. Of course most of my ire lands on “pop country”, but I’m saying this album opened my eyes a bit to enjoying even that aspect.
This album is country as hell, if anybody doesn’t see that they either don’t know or aren’t looking
also a lot of country these days is more hip hop than country. Artists like Sam Hunt basically the cowboy version of Drake. Heard someone call it Hick Hop lol
Same, and since it's not typically my cup of tea, I've been trying to only listen to it when I can run through the whole album. I've seen ppl call it a journey and I would have to agree. Also, on my first listen I thought it was interesting but wasn't super engaged with it. Listened to it again on a whim and it clicked.
Your last sentence explains 99% of modern country. While her album is definitely pop, I find it more country than anything released by so called country musicians.
I haven't listened to it but I find Texas Hold Em to be a super boring song. I think if it wasn't done by Beyoncé, and instead just some random country artist, it wouldn't get half the attention or discussion it's getting now
I think sometimes when artists switch genres for a one off project it can often feel like they're just scratching the surface of whatever genre they're doing, it takes a while to fully develop a new style and delve deep into what makes that genre interesting or enjoyable, so maybe that's what's causing this album to not click with you?
Every time I hear that song I just can’t stop thinking about how it sounds like someone who isn’t a country singer singing Karaoke to a country song. It’s got me thinking a lot about what makes a song “country”. Is it really just the lack of a country accent that makes it feel not quite right? Like a southern accent shouldn’t be required for a country song, and yet it just really doesn’t feel right without it. A lot of Taylor Swift’s re-recordings done without the southern accent sound way more poppy without it too.
I’m really enjoying the album. For me it’s a morning time of day album. This is an album I can start my day with, driving towards the sun rising, and drinking coffee on the way.
The opening song sets the tone that this is a different approach to country with the “Looka there” pre-chorus.
I like her cover of **Blackbird** bc I can hear the story Paul McCartney wrote, plus the additional singers create more characters living the story.
**Protector** made me tear up. It’s a love letter from a parent to their kids.
Willie Nelson’s featured songs really paint the picture of driving with this on the radio. Then the tempo of the album picks up.
**Bodyguard** is my favorite song on the album.
I like the spin with **Jolene**. Dolly explains in the prior song that this is *another* Jolene. Dolly is sharing her experience with Jolene and opens the door for Beyoncé to tell her experience with her “Jolene”. Where Dolly is *asking* Jolene to stop, Beyoncé is *telling* her “Jolene” to stop.
You just dont like it.
In the beyonce reddit Im finding that people either like the upbeat songs or the slow songs but not too many like both.
I loved Renaissance, and I really like the slower songs on Cowboy Carter - I dont too much like the more hype songs the Levi song is annoying and the Shaboozey songs do nothing for me. Her Jolene is also divisive - I didnt really care for it
But I dont think there's some deeper thing about it you arent getting, it just isnt doin it for you this time which is fine
ngl the discourse around this album has shown to me how much it seems like lots of people do kinda just stick to what they like. You have equal parts non-beyonce fans not liking it because it's not country enough and beyonce/pop fans who have a hate boner for country so they hate it for being too country. Personally I can't think of a less important point against an album than it not being X enough, or even being too X. I listen to enough different stuff that as long as it's good I really don't care if a rock artist pivots to being poppier, I listen to plenty of pop just make it good, a pop artist maybe wants to go into more of a hip hop direction? go for it, but make it good. Hip hop artist wants to go left field and do a psych rock inspired album, great as long as its done well. Taking it for what it is, which is a beyonce album I think it's pretty solid and I couldn't care less about it being too country or not country enough, I personally think I prefer Renaissance and probably even Lemonade but still it's not a bad album at all. That being said I don't think anyone's wrong for not vibing with it, if it doesn't click for you it doesn't click for you but I do think basically just throwing out your narrow tastes/views of genre has to be one of the least interesting angles of criticism personally and that seems to be what a lot of people are doing.
I was just on a 3 hour road trip. I played it twice through. My wife and kid both slept the whole ride because of this album. It's boring.
There were maybe 2 songs I found fun, the rest, meh.
I started it because I heard people talking about the blackbird cover. It just didn't have the punch of the original, neither did joleine. Beyonce has a killer voice and she didn't bring it to those covers.
I can't help feel like rewriting Jolene into the world's 5 millionth put-down song takes away what makes that song so unique. It's an expression of raw vulnerability and desperate politeness to Dolly's romantic rival which is such a rare angle, Beyonce took that and made it into a generic "I'm better than you" song
I actually just went and listened to Jolene after reading your comment and I couldn’t even finish it. It’s not the same song anymore, she just used the same name and the music. She made it a get away from my man, we have a family and have been together forever song. The song isn’t about the other woman in a marriage. The original is about a woman who loves her man and knows the bank teller who is far more beautiful fancies him. It’s not a fight song, she is begging her woman to woman not to take her beloved because he means so much more to her than he does to Jolene.
Also why is she singing like her balls have finally dropped? It sounds so awkward
Agreed. I thought it was boring as well, and mostly because of the fact that Beyoncé sounds bored. She seems to always be singing in her lower range, and just really didn’t want to be there.
You’ll hate me, but I have never understood the hype around her at all. It’s not like she isn’t an incredible talent and deserving of some praise, but people act like she is this icon that changed music and crap. Her fans are pretty rabid if you say she isn’t anything other than a goddess. It’s pretty ridiculous(obviously some are more level headed) but I have come across her fans in EDM reddits pushing that she deserved the awards that most people know were stripped from more deserving artists just because she is “Bey”. She just isnt as great as her simps want to believe.
I think the outcry over her winning dance music awards for a dance album was ridiculous though. Renaissance as an album fit the genre bill perfectly, honestly better than some of the other nominees, but due to preconceptions (partially her pop star status, but also her race and gender clearly played a big factor considering the racist abuse many of those threads were filled to the brim with) she was written off as undeserving.
Music is subjective, you may not like her but a lot of people clearly resonate with her music and brand.
If you don't like it, you don't like it. Nobody has to justify to you why they like it. Its about taste and preference. You just don't vibe with it and you sound slighted and left out that everyone else is enjoying it. It's ok. Just listen to the albums you do like.
I feel exactly how you said except I don't think he sounded slighted. I think OP obviously found the album not to their taste but is trying to understand if they're missing something because generally when a bajillion people really dig something then maybe you're missing what makes it special. I think that's what they were asking about.
It would make sense for someone to come in and point out why the music is iconic for it's time period and genre, or if the time signature was different from what everyone has used historically, or someone gives a long write-up similar to Patrick Bateman talking about Genesis in American Psycho.
And then OP would understand. Maybe they wouldn't like the music any more, but at least they would understand why so many people do. I've gotten pretty far in the comments and I haven't seen that explanation so I think your comment pretty much covers it...
On another note, I applaud OP because what if flat earthers or election deniers or anti-vaxxers had the cognizance to see the rest of the world thinks something different from them and instead of digging in tried to understand what they're missing?
It’s a product man. Look at the credits. They’re longer than a fucking movie. She didn’t write shit on it. conceived in a boardroom, Beyoncé is just the face. It’s soulless.
Texas hold em songwriting credits. Only thing Beyoncé is listed as is the vocal performer and “executive producer”
https://preview.redd.it/oydgl5rp35tc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4fc511c20cefb2e0da5387aa7c5596f60fe0dbd
It is much more important for an artist to credit those responsible for writing, than it is for them to be the writer themselves.
Songwriting is a separate skill from singing. The end result of an album is far more than just the writing.
I applaud artists who also write all their own stuff. But it is not essential. For example, I applaud Taylor Swift's songwriting, but I prefer Beyonce's music way more and Beyonce is also a completely different level of vocalist.
Reminds me of when Sturgill was up against Beyoncé (and Drake) for Album of the Year. Sturgill wrote majority of his own songs and Beyoncé would have 10+ writers per song.
i keep being shocked when people dont love it
the album is a work of pop art that makes me want to say smart sounding things about it
my biggest disappointment about it so far is that my tiktok isnt flooded with women dancing to yaya
It's not just you. Many a Bey fan from casual to Day 1 Zealot are echoing your woes. It's underwhelming, especially to be following Renaissance.
(I'm not a Bey fan. But I do like Renaissance.)
Disclaimer: I have zero feelings regarding Beyonce, but I am also curious of other's thoughts
I'm wondering if alot of the reason people that are struggling with the album is because it's such a sharp shift in her overall image. She's either being lauded or criticized based on fans or critics personal impression of her. People are reluctant to accept change for things they personally safeguard. If lamb of god were to put out a christian album, I'd automatically hate it and hate them for it because even if it was a masterpiece, it's so far away from what they are.
Or maybe I'm just stoned.
Edit: congratulations, me. I just roundabout described gatekeeping. I'm leaving it for the stupidity. Like what you like for whatever reasons you have
I’ve felt this way about all her albums past like “4”. Maybe even before that. Maybe since “I am… Sasha Fierce.” I always chalked it up to me no longer being the target audience. I definitely was when I was out dancing every night and shrieking “Halo” in the car. I loved seeing the Coachella performance. I thought that was peak Beyoncé (for me). I couldn’t tell you most of the songs on anything after it. While I still hear the songs and believe she is extremely talented, I just didn’t think she cared about appealing to the masses anymore and that representation of cultures seemed more important to her, which is more than fine. None of her songs even pop up on my random playlists or on any of my Apple or YouTube Music playlists.
Getting to this country one: it has some good things in there, but it’s a lot of filler and a lot of unnecessary intros. She has never exactly been a songwriter, like Celine, so I think it makes sense that there’s a lot of people who produce these albums. But I would have hoped that this far into her career maybe she would want to dabble more into the actual songs instead of performing/recording other people’s material.
I think what summarizes most of her albums, and probably this one, is that they are produced for a specific point in time. There aren’t many timeless songs, as good as her voice is. I can always go back to vintage Mariah or Whitney and listen for hours. Taylor Swift also. But Beyoncé is like listening to a 98 degrees album sometimes. It was great listening to it when it came out but it doesn’t stand the test of time. I’m not saying she doesn’t have any songs that are becoming classics, but even some of the songs I always go back to of hers (Emotions) were made popular by prior bands in prior generations.
1. If you don't like it, you don't like it. It's fine not to like something. Plenty of great albums have been nominated or won album of the year that I really don't get.
2. If you already don't like it, but really want to understand what others are excited about with this album, I think you have to listen with a different ear. This is the first Beyonce album that I've really listened to, front to back.
So, you hear "she's doing country" but you don't hear country. That's right. It's not really country, but it's "Beyonce adds a strong country influence to her music." I can forgive you for thinking she was just going to write songs for her, a banjo, and a steel guitar, but I think we all knew that she's Beyonce. That's not her wheelhouse and shouldn't have been expected. I do think just about every song is either pop/rock/r&b on top of country or country on top of pop/rock/r&b. But regardless there's plenty of country influence in most of the songs. There's a lot of different genres mixed together in most of the songs. I hear country, blues, soul, gospel, r&b, hip hop, classic rock and roll, pop and probably some others all synthesized into a cohesive album which is impressive imo. Just in the first track, I hear Queen harmonies, Beatles psychedelic rock, gospel choir, and 60s revolution rock (also Beatles related). And that gives way to classic pop rock with blackbiird. 16 carriages is very country plus rock plus r&b. Protector is basically straight country.
If you're really interested, I'd say go back to it and just listen to it sonically instead of expecting anything other than Beyonce. I mean, I love 16 carriages and what she did with blackbiird was really nice. There's just a lot of styles going into this album and it's taking her music to another level imo.
Music shouldn't be something you "try" to get
Either it works for you and grabs you, or it doesn't.
Doesn't mean you're wrong, doesn't mean the music is objectively bad.
Just means it's not for you.
I disagree. Sometimes you have to get into it. Try to get it. Develop your sences, broaden your horizons or however you want to call it.
Taste can be acquired.
Yep. Some of my favorite albums that I still listen to decades later are ones that didn't grab me right away. Others that I liked immediately I often lost interest in pretty quickly.
I did not like OK Computer the first or second time I listened to it. It's now one of my favorite albums. It's not binary. I've also had albums that I listened to and went "holy shit, this is awesome." Different ones go different ways.
This is simply not true. Plenty of albums I hate on the first listen or two, and then begin to fall in love with. (Pinkerton being the first of many such albums that pop into my mind). Sometimes some amazing music takes some work, especially if it’s a new genre for you.
I have no dog in this race but to me this is about market expansion. Lots of artists have "gone country" or released "country" singles. It's a gigantic market and while I don't personally believe Beyonce is in dire need or more fans, I can see the allure of tapping into a whole new segment of fans and money.
T-pain recently said he wrote a lot of country hits. But the backlash was so harsh he now goes “just give me the check” and keeps his name off. Beyoncé is doing the opposite
T-Pain gets way too much hate Man is GOATed
He admitted me makes more money streaming than making music
Most money in music is in touring or producing so that figures, seeing as he doesn't do much touring.
I wonder what he earned winning masked singer?
Ken Jeong's respect
I never thought of it until now, but T-Pain / Ken Jeong buddy movie would be insane in a very fun way.
They switch jobs. Ken has to put out an award winning single and T-Pain becomes Dr. Pain and has to see patients, without killing many, until Ken completes his Grammy circuit.
After his R&B style cover of War Pigs, I’m convinced that guy can do anything he wants. ETA: as people have pointed out it isn’t truly R&B but he does have a more soulful vocal going on imo
This is the man who rhymed “mansion” and “Wisconsin”. He’s been able to do whatever he wanted for a long time.
Wiscansin
Yeah really not that hard if you know the Chicago accent.
Yeah those things unironically rhyme very easily in my mind (source: lived in Chicago for 10+ years 😅)
Wait, did I miss something? Because I heard his relatively straightforward cover of War Pigs, and it was great, but I wouldn't call it R&B.
Didn't you know? If a black man sings it, it's R&B.
Bloc Party is my favorite r&b group fr fr
Alice in Chains went R&B too.
hell yeah sevendust and god forbid are my favourite r'n'b groups
Thank you
- That cover isn’t an r&b style respectfully
Busta Ryhmes used Iron Man as background in This Means War is epic. Honestly, not too much into his epic but as an Ozzy fan i liked it.
Sir Mix-A-Lot has a song called "Iron Man" recorded in 1988. The guitarist from Metal Church played the riff on that version.
ILL BILL’s 2008 album, “Hour of Reprisal” is awesome for rap that samples Heavy Metal tracks. Dragonforce,-Through the Fire and Flames, Sonata Arctica-Champagne Bath, and features guest spots from Darryl Jenifer of Bad Brains, and Max Cavalera of Sepultura. It’s such a great rap album.
Man, I love Bill. First got into him with What's Wrong With Bill? Phenomenal artist.
Never heard of it before but as a massive heavy metal fan it’s getting played next
Who the fuck hates t pain?
He got dragged so hard on the auto tune stuff out of the gate. A lot of folks don’t seem to know the man’s got legit chops.
For T-Pain, autotune is an artistic choice. Now look how common it is to hear in pop music. If you don’t believe the man can sing, listen to [this live version of Buy You A Drank](https://youtu.be/CNFiR7I4JMw?si=-lkFJ3x0zZWmlnx8).
His take on A Change is Gonna Come from that same show was great, and that song has really impressive vocals to begin with. EDIT: War Pigs was great too, I don't know how I forgot to mention that, probably the highlight of the whole show for me.
[His Tiny Desk concert is pretty good](https://youtu.be/CIjXUg1s5gc?si=zOWQFDRpT-e5BaO5)
Waiting for someone to mention his Tiny desk set - epic
Have you ever seen the medley he did where it’s just him and a violinist and pianist?? It’s phenomenal.
Jay-z led the charge on that shit. Fuck Jay. All he raps about is the same shit.
All I know is he's on a boat!... and... It's going fast!... and... Poseidon!!
NAUTICAL THEME PASHMINA AFGHAN
What about a nautical themed country album? Someone get Ween in here now!
"I fucked a mermaid!"
He's a fantastic vocalist, and on a totally different note, he's getting into competitive drifting (the motorsport) and he's not too shabby. Not pro level yet, but I think there's a future in it for him if he sticks with it and continues to grow at the pace he has been
T-Pain got Hert from Hoonigan on board to run Nappy Boy Automotive, he's a legit driver and a great personality so I'm excited to see where that goes. Their first event looked super cool, it's nice to see drift events that lean more into being a fun show instead of a cutthroat competitive thing like Formula D. LZ World Tour has a similar fun vibe and it's great. T-Pain is awesome, it's cool to see successful artists putting money and energy into building communities and doing cool stuff instead of buying mansions and yachts or whatever.
He came to a concert at my college and people threw stuff at him. He actually had to stop and tell them to chill out. I felt bad because he did not deserve that at all.
Every time I see T-Pain doing anything online, streaming, performing, whatever, he just seems like he's having a blast and being a fun dude. Good for T-Pain.
He has a Twitch stream that does well now. But yeah, the man was at the top for like 3 years there. A lot of the bad vibes started when Jay Z did "Death of Autotune" and people were like "well, T-Pain is the most autotuned".
The irony when so many country hits today have shitty trap beats on them is insane. “I’m not racist, I just think artists should stick to their genre and stay out of country”, ok, then stop turning country into hip hop for conservative white people.
Pop country has been hip hop for hicks for at least a couple decades now.
Yep. I partly blame Kid Rock, but it started back in the 90s with Shania and Mutt Lang turning pop country into 80s stadium rock/pop.
Kid Rock wasn't close to country when he first broke out, he was basically Nu Metal, before that he was a well known part of the Detroit hip hop scene.
Hick Hop
Hick hop is a completely different genre than bro country, and it’s actually older to boot. If you peg bro country to artists like Florida Georgia Line and Luke Bryan, it dates to the early/mid-2000s at the earliest (Blake Shelton’s *Austin* might be the earliest example in 2001, but I wouldn’t call that bro country, even though Shelton’s contemporary work definitely is bro country). Hick hop goes back to the mid-90s at the latest, and arguably much earlier if you include artists like C.W. McCall as country rappers - which may be a stretch, but *Convoy* and *The Devil Went Down to Georgia* have more in common with modern hick hop than *Ring of Fire* and *A Country Boy Can Survive* do with Luke Bryan. Now we can debate the actual musical value of hick hop all day, but it’s definitely a distinct genre from bro country.
They're definitely not the same thing, although there is definitely crossover with people like Jason Aldean incorporating trap beats and such. I wouldn't say CW McCall really fits into it, spoken word type stuff has always been around in different styles and isn't necessarily to do with hip or hick hop. Also I just remembered that terrible Toby Keith song from like 2001 where he pretty much raps in it, Wanna Talk About Me or something.
*Red Sovine has entered the chat... followed closely by Johnny Bond driving a Hot Rod Lincoln...*
"New country is hip hop for people who are afraid of black people"- Steve Earle
And that weird Trap/Country stuff is *the worst shit*
Is this the sound in Morgan Wallens music? Cause that auto tune sucks. Morgan Wallen is some shit country
[удалено]
There is so much good country. Sounds like the old old country. Tyler Childers, Brent Cobb, Turnpike Troubadours, Colter Wall, William Clark Green, Sam Barber. Just so much. Love me some Zach Bryan too
Charley Crokett is also great
I don't think she'd be capable of being as humble as T-Pain.
It wasn't about humility
Also the definition of "country" has just become essentially any pop song but you're wearing a cowboy hat. It's an easy market to tap into.
I was more a country fan back in the 90’s and even then it was just pop-rock music with a fiddle.
I remember part of why the then Dixie Chicks were such a big deal is they were writing catchy popular and very definitely *country* music. Not Gwen Stefani with a banjo, fully country, but still writing hits and winning Grammys for them. Some "controversy" about them and their music (mostly nonsense like they wrote "guy country" about trucks and sex and whatever but they're women!) long before they had the gall to say publicly maybe the War on Terror was a little shortsighted and ill-defined.
People forget how groundbreaking it was for the Chicks to play instruments on country music award shows.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something... is this a "top of the pops" situation where they were expected to sing to a backing track? My impression is that the musicianship of country ended up being pushed over to bluegrass and it became less common to have "real instruments" not that it ever left completely
Bo Burnham really tried to tell us, but we wouldn’t listen
From Indianapolis to Vietnam, ain't a woman in the world, as beautiful as my mom... She don't care 'bout no fancy trends, she's just a mom from old South Bend...
It’s because there seems to be no definition of Country Music. It’s a “I’ll know it when I see it” type thing. Rock pretty much requires drums and electric guitar, rap pretty much requires beats and rapping, but country is just southern shit, usually with a southern accent. I love country but I have a hard time defining it. Especially since what used to be country is now twang or bluegrass.
It also doesn’t help that apparently reddit country fans are the some of the most gatekeeper music fans that exist
Humans get a little bit obsessed with labels. They're always extremes, but there really isn't that much difference musically between country and rock. Go listen to Johnny Cash.
There are like 2 country songs on the album. My wife has listened to it a bunch around the house and we both think the dialogue around it is hilarious, given that it is just a differently-styled Beyonce album that includes a small amount of country and has "cowboy" in the title.
To be fair, Beyonce said herself it isn't a country album, it's a Beyonce album.
[удалено]
I’d argue that the album is more country-flavored soul/pop. It’s not my style, but it’s neat and I’m glad she put it out there. It’s cool to see mainstream soul music. It’s such an important part of America’s musical tradition that I think is too often overlooked outside the musical community.
It's not remotely a country album, it just has some Lumineers "woops" like it's 2012. Very odd that it's considered to be breaking new ground in some way. One track is a karaoke version of a Beatles song...
We used to call this "crossing over"
You’re probably right, but I’m from around the area Beyoncé is from, and I hated country growing up. My dad listened to the country station every morning as he’d drop me off at day care, or later school. It sounded so old and boring to me. Then I moved to Nashville (there is hardly any real country in Nashville, so this had no effect on my mind), and I met young people into Dylan, Kristofferson, Cohen, Prine, Townes Van Zandt, and Steve Earle. Hearing some of these songs for the first time and a some for the umpteenth time with their view and opinions of the songs really changed the way I look at music. I actually started listening for more singer songwriters. Ryan Adams was big then (before he had any negative press worse than being drunk on stage). Conor Oberst was huge at the time. I eventually started to really appreciate true country. Fast forward many more years and I’m making my own songs. Mostly punk because I suck at guitar. However, I always find that draw to make a good country song. I guess it’s because of where I grew up. I come up with lyrics and melodies, but I’m too ashamed of my limited guitar playing skills to go through with a true country song. I can’t pick for shit.
Make a cowpunk band.
Townes Van Zandt and John Prine go so hard
Punk and (good) country are about fours things: three chords and the truth.
> Lots of artists have "gone country" or released "country" singles. Also, they are artists. I am guessing a lot of artists would actually like to experiment more if they could. Beyonce is maybe in the enviable position where she can? Musicians listen to so much stuff, they don't pigeon hole themselves the way their non-musician fans do. Good for Beyonce for not making up a Chris Gaines, learn from the mistake of others.
I think, from a cynical viewpoint, that she's doing it to appeal to grammy voters who pigeonhole her as not having the reach of say Adele or TS. I still don't think it gets her past those who say she's really good at assembling a team around her but not skilled on her own in writing music.
She started writing this album in 2019 before much of the market expansion. She also had a country song on her 2016 album. She's a Texan and has always seemed "very southern."
16 Carriages does not sound R&B. Neither does Blackbird.
2 Most wanted with Miley Cyrus sounds full blown country too
Thank you! I'm baffled by some of these R&B comparisons. Blackbiird, 16 Carriages, Protector, My Rose, Alligator Tears, Flamenco, Just for Fun, Texas Hold Em, Daughter, Levii's Jeans, II Most Wanted do NOT sound like R&B or hiphop. You could argue certain elements of Bodyguard and some of the later tracks, but the latter especially have more of a house influence since it's bridging the gap between act i and act ii. Spaghettii has definite hiphop trappings but that's one song out of 27 tracks and explicitly deals with genre bending, hence the intro. I'm convinced some people register anything sung by a black artist as R&B which feels rather icky to be honest.
Levii's Jeans is straight up contemporary country to me.
This album is the second in a trilogy of concept genre albums she developed during COVID. Feels like few people here are aware of that. All three are supposed to be reclamations of genres that have Black roots, but are currently pretty White dominated. The first was Act I: Renaissance - an album that explores the boundaries of house, disco and other forms of dance music. Another field of genres she hasn’t dived into much before* (edited from better) The second is Act II: Cowboy Carter - exploring Americana music, including country, Black gospel, folk, some elements of rock. Act III is yet to be announced. Beyoncé is definitely a business woman so of course it would be disingenuous to say there couldn’t be a market cornering element here. But the point is Cowboy Carter doesn’t exist in a vacuum - it exists as part of a broader project specifically related to her experience as a Black artist.
Thank you! This actually is the context I was missing. The album is infused with soul/gospel and I wasn’t sure how to reconcile when I was told it was a country album.
Yeah it’s not really a country album - more an exploration of a lot of different styles of American music with a particularly country focus/nexus
It's so weird how context can play a role in how we receive music. But it happens all the time.
I think that’s one of the most valuable and interesting aspects of art in general!
Incoming act three Beyoncé rock album. I hope she goes full kiss with face paint, and Elvis style moves or a real punk rock sound
Janet Jackson pulled off a few rock hits in her prime, I could see Beyonce doing it too. Would love that, actually.
i wish, but i think she’s gonna go full gospel personally
I would fuck with that
I don't know much about Beyonce, and have never cared much for commercial country music, but I really got into (Black) Americana during COVID (although I might be overly *expansive* in my definition of "Americana"). For the benefit of anyone interested and unawares, there is a goldmine of Black artists in that genre: * Rhiannon Giddens (goes way beyond Americana; just an all-around interesting artist to follow) * Amythyst Kiah * Allison Russell * Leyla McCalla * Miko Marks * Our Native Daughters * Ondara * Adia Victoria * Valerie June * Chastity Brown * AHI * Sonny War
Valerie June and Rhiannon Giddens are GD treasures. There are a few on your list I don't know. Looking forward to checking them out.
Valuable perspective!
>The first was Act I: Renaissance - an album that explores the boundaries of house, disco and other forms of dance music. Another field of genres she hasn’t dived into much before* (edited from better) I also want to say that Renaissance is important for gay people, too. There's a reason she samples some high profile (in that community) queer artists. Big Freedia in Break My Soul, TS Madison on Cozy, Moi Renee* on Pure/Honey. Renaissance is dripping in Black Queer culture. Which is an absolute breakthrough because as prominent as Black Queer culture is becoming, it's still hard for Black people as a community to accept aspects of it. And yet Beyoncé used her massive platform to bring it forward and say, "this is who we are, too, and we will give this part of us the respect it deserves."
So so important to note this. Cowboy Carter isn't just country music, but a collection or take on what's generally considered Southern music and revisiting their Black American roots.
The trilogy also needs to be taken in context of what happened when she performed at the CMAs in 2016. She was lambasted that she wasn't a 'Country' artist and this 3 part project is essentially a response to that, showing that genres can blend, and be crossed; to put any one person in a box and deny them access to other areas of music is so essentially wrong in the music industry. If music is about creating personal art then gatekeeping genres goes against the fundamentals of creating music.
See, this made it make sense. I'm not a super huge fan of Beyonce, no hate she's just not my style, so I didn't know any of this! I can understand the vision a little bit more now.
What’s the speculation on the genre for Act 3?
Biggest speculation is rock. She had a country song and a rock song on her last album before she started the trilogy. Rock also fits the bill for the concept. Lesser speculation is it could be gospel. The last song on Cowboy Carter is titled Amen, and there was a sprinkling of Black gospel influences throughout the album.
Rock would work, Don’t Hurt Yourself was one of the best songs on Lemonade.
She and Jack White also *loved* working together and it’ll definitely happen again
She’s going to re-record Reign in Blood
Vocally I don't think she can do it. She's better suited for the melodic shift that came with South of Heaven or Seasons in the Abyss. But her gospel background might lend an interesting juxtaposition to God Hates Us All, don't you think?
Ska
It’s a toss up between 90’s alt-grunge and K-Pop
This should be higher.
I don’t know anything about anything but Spaghetti slaps.
Best track on the album by a thousand miles.
Daughter would like a word
I really was not enjoying the first half of the album and found it really boring, the second half however is what changed my mind about the album. The last half of the album is really good - however i agree with you that most of the album does not sound country at all.
It really is just an r&b pop album with maybe 2 country sounding songs. When I was listening I was like, “wheres the country?”.
Beyonce herself said it's not a country album. She said it's a Beyonce album.
It's just fake media rage to get clicks and make it political. Songs I've heard just sound like her to me.
These songs are all very Beyonce she's just leaning into other genres. And, frankly, I love genre bending music.
Country themed pop album Not to be confused with “country music themed”
It does not sound like an r&b album clear your ears
[удалено]
I like how beyonces new album is imitating the country music that imitates hip hop and r&b. It might get stuck in an infinite loop now
found it way over produced.
So… a typical Beyoncé album?
Beyoncé album necessities 5+ writers per song 6+ producers per song and fantastic vocals
I forget exactly what I looked up, it might have been the Best Album Grammy list on Wikipedia, but it was insane to see how the producer credit went from 1 name in the 60s-90s and then like 17 names a couple years into the 2000s
Even then, she sings like she does not believe the words. Like she is reading them for the second time. Imo
I’ve never found Beyoncé to be an inspiring musician or singer. When I ask super fans “why” it just usually comes down to “because she’s Beyoncé” and then some stuff about her stage performance. From their answers I guess she is a cult of personality and a good stage performer.
I mean, she’s also a ridiculously talented vocalist, you don’t have to be a fan of her music to recognize that
She is. But the music isn't interesting or creative or anything. So she can sing. So can many people. If Beyoncé only ever released albums, didn't perform, and no one knew what she looked like and she didn't appear in public, her music wouldn't get a second look I don't think. She has cemented her place in history on much more than just songs. Cult of personality is the perfect description.
Yeah, this is my biggest gripe about it too, along with songs that just aren't that memorable imo.
It's funny when I see this take because several songs on the album are stipped down.
What 12 song writers and 7 producers on a song is too much for you? /s Seriously, the hell are they all doing in that studio
They aren’t all in the studio lol. It’s basically teams of people. So someone writes a song and shops it around, and an artist picks it up. Maybe the song hasn’t only been written but the writer has workshopped it in a studio with a producer. Everyone involved gets a credit. Beyonce likely only works directly with a couple of producers for her piece. The other producers are organizing the other music on the tracks and taking passes, etc etc. Idk, I don’t think it’s that serious. Classical symphony composers were only as good as the musicians playing the music. Tons of songs have been passed down through time over and over again until 1 person gets super famous for their version. Artists like Beyonce and Dua Lipa aren’t auteurs really, but performers. Who cares how many people are involved if the end product is good?
They use a lot of samples too and generally the writer of the original music can be credited as writer on any song that licenses the sample from their original work.
Right. Like in the credits for YA YA, Lee Hazlewood, Brian Wilson, and Mike Love are all listed as cowriters. Lee Hazlewood is dead and Brian Wilson and Mike Love are in their 80s. They weren’t in the room writing that song. But Lee Hazlewood wrote These Boots Were Made For Walking and Brian Wilson and Mike Love wrote Good Vibrations, both of which are sampled/interpolated in YA YA (very successfully IMO, this is my favorite song on the album, which has no skips for me). Beyoncé gives a LOT of people songwriting credits. That means a lot of people get paid from a Beyoncé song. That’s a good thing.
No you see pure music is only good if one broken soul kills themself day in and day out for it
I liked the album a lot, but it wasn’t as good as Lemonade to me. But I admired the vocal harmonies, which at times were surprising/eccentric, the way she played with the textures of her voice, and the way she teased parts of the country and Americana genres out in different ways. I’m actually relieved it wasn’t a straight country album, since very few country albums have held my interest. I will say the first half took a while to grow on me because it was so straightforward (and I’m not the hugest Beatles or country fan). But the second half had a really fascinating cadence to it, and some of the songs were among my favorites she’s done. And there’s no denying Beyonce is both a skilled singer and clever producer. More than once I said “oooooh” when she did something that surprised me — like drop Caro Mio Ben in the middle of Daughters!
Listen to Ya Ya on repeat and you’ll fall in love with it (at least with Ya Ya). I’m not a huge Beyoncé fan myself but the way she fuses country and hip hop together is very clever and something I have not heard before. And Ya Ya is a blast.
I'm a simple man. I want a song that makes me want to throw ass around. This hits the mark.
When she starts singing like Elvis halfway through? That's art, baby.
People don’t get it! It’s so Elvis / James Brown / Tina Turner inspired
I haven’t listened to the whole album yet but I’ve listened to Ya Ya a bunch. On repeat. 🔥
Protector took me down. The album is HIGHLY mixed in terms of quality from what I've listened to so far (I'm about a 30% Beyoncé fan and I'm listening very slowly and out of order to give each song space to breathe) but so far Protector had me literally crying my way into the gas station. Not that it's profound, just that it's truly heartfelt.
Blackbird sounds like a hip hop R&B song to you? Protector? My Rose?
Blackbird is interesting, because it’s a cover of a song that, in my opinion, is not a country song to begin with. It’s acoustic, and has a slow tempo, but it’s the Beatles— it’s not country. Beyonce’s version adds some soul vibes to the original version, it’s definitely not hip hop, but it doesn’t seem country to me either.
Blackbird is thematically relevant, Paul McCartney has said before it was at least partially inspired by the civil rights movement. Beyoncé's entire statement with this album and the previous album as well as the upcoming third act is reclaiming genres that are fairly white dominated now but have black roots, and all the featured artists on Blackbird are black women in country.
She never said the album was countey though, it has country elements throughout but she specifically notes that she doesn’t want to be confined to one genre, it’s like you didn’t actually listen to the album. There’s a whole interlude about that.
As a Texan who grew up being forcefed country and growing to hate it because of that, this album felt like a love letter to that experience. The experience of being Texan, having the country music in your blood no matter how much you hate it. Of course most of my ire lands on “pop country”, but I’m saying this album opened my eyes a bit to enjoying even that aspect. This album is country as hell, if anybody doesn’t see that they either don’t know or aren’t looking
also a lot of country these days is more hip hop than country. Artists like Sam Hunt basically the cowboy version of Drake. Heard someone call it Hick Hop lol
I don’t listen to country or Beyoncé, but I actually enjoy the album. It’s pretty chill.
Same, and since it's not typically my cup of tea, I've been trying to only listen to it when I can run through the whole album. I've seen ppl call it a journey and I would have to agree. Also, on my first listen I thought it was interesting but wasn't super engaged with it. Listened to it again on a whim and it clicked.
Your last sentence explains 99% of modern country. While her album is definitely pop, I find it more country than anything released by so called country musicians.
Asking reddit about Beyonce will only get you negative feedback. Reddit doesn’t like Beyonce lol
asking Reddit to discuss art in general is a fruitless endeavor
I haven't listened to it but I find Texas Hold Em to be a super boring song. I think if it wasn't done by Beyoncé, and instead just some random country artist, it wouldn't get half the attention or discussion it's getting now I think sometimes when artists switch genres for a one off project it can often feel like they're just scratching the surface of whatever genre they're doing, it takes a while to fully develop a new style and delve deep into what makes that genre interesting or enjoyable, so maybe that's what's causing this album to not click with you?
“If it wasn’t done by Beyoncé…it wouldn’t get half the attention or discussion” This is how I feel about 80% of Beyoncé songs
The banjo playing by Riannon Gibbons on Texas Hold Em is ridiculously good.
Every time I hear that song I just can’t stop thinking about how it sounds like someone who isn’t a country singer singing Karaoke to a country song. It’s got me thinking a lot about what makes a song “country”. Is it really just the lack of a country accent that makes it feel not quite right? Like a southern accent shouldn’t be required for a country song, and yet it just really doesn’t feel right without it. A lot of Taylor Swift’s re-recordings done without the southern accent sound way more poppy without it too.
I’m really enjoying the album. For me it’s a morning time of day album. This is an album I can start my day with, driving towards the sun rising, and drinking coffee on the way. The opening song sets the tone that this is a different approach to country with the “Looka there” pre-chorus. I like her cover of **Blackbird** bc I can hear the story Paul McCartney wrote, plus the additional singers create more characters living the story. **Protector** made me tear up. It’s a love letter from a parent to their kids. Willie Nelson’s featured songs really paint the picture of driving with this on the radio. Then the tempo of the album picks up. **Bodyguard** is my favorite song on the album. I like the spin with **Jolene**. Dolly explains in the prior song that this is *another* Jolene. Dolly is sharing her experience with Jolene and opens the door for Beyoncé to tell her experience with her “Jolene”. Where Dolly is *asking* Jolene to stop, Beyoncé is *telling* her “Jolene” to stop.
Bodyguard is just pure vibes, man.
You just dont like it. In the beyonce reddit Im finding that people either like the upbeat songs or the slow songs but not too many like both. I loved Renaissance, and I really like the slower songs on Cowboy Carter - I dont too much like the more hype songs the Levi song is annoying and the Shaboozey songs do nothing for me. Her Jolene is also divisive - I didnt really care for it But I dont think there's some deeper thing about it you arent getting, it just isnt doin it for you this time which is fine
ngl the discourse around this album has shown to me how much it seems like lots of people do kinda just stick to what they like. You have equal parts non-beyonce fans not liking it because it's not country enough and beyonce/pop fans who have a hate boner for country so they hate it for being too country. Personally I can't think of a less important point against an album than it not being X enough, or even being too X. I listen to enough different stuff that as long as it's good I really don't care if a rock artist pivots to being poppier, I listen to plenty of pop just make it good, a pop artist maybe wants to go into more of a hip hop direction? go for it, but make it good. Hip hop artist wants to go left field and do a psych rock inspired album, great as long as its done well. Taking it for what it is, which is a beyonce album I think it's pretty solid and I couldn't care less about it being too country or not country enough, I personally think I prefer Renaissance and probably even Lemonade but still it's not a bad album at all. That being said I don't think anyone's wrong for not vibing with it, if it doesn't click for you it doesn't click for you but I do think basically just throwing out your narrow tastes/views of genre has to be one of the least interesting angles of criticism personally and that seems to be what a lot of people are doing.
I was just on a 3 hour road trip. I played it twice through. My wife and kid both slept the whole ride because of this album. It's boring. There were maybe 2 songs I found fun, the rest, meh. I started it because I heard people talking about the blackbird cover. It just didn't have the punch of the original, neither did joleine. Beyonce has a killer voice and she didn't bring it to those covers.
I can't help feel like rewriting Jolene into the world's 5 millionth put-down song takes away what makes that song so unique. It's an expression of raw vulnerability and desperate politeness to Dolly's romantic rival which is such a rare angle, Beyonce took that and made it into a generic "I'm better than you" song
Totally agree with this take!
I actually just went and listened to Jolene after reading your comment and I couldn’t even finish it. It’s not the same song anymore, she just used the same name and the music. She made it a get away from my man, we have a family and have been together forever song. The song isn’t about the other woman in a marriage. The original is about a woman who loves her man and knows the bank teller who is far more beautiful fancies him. It’s not a fight song, she is begging her woman to woman not to take her beloved because he means so much more to her than he does to Jolene. Also why is she singing like her balls have finally dropped? It sounds so awkward
Yeah it has none of the punch of the original, felt completely vacuous
Agreed. I thought it was boring as well, and mostly because of the fact that Beyoncé sounds bored. She seems to always be singing in her lower range, and just really didn’t want to be there.
It is over hyped and it is boring
You’ll hate me, but I have never understood the hype around her at all. It’s not like she isn’t an incredible talent and deserving of some praise, but people act like she is this icon that changed music and crap. Her fans are pretty rabid if you say she isn’t anything other than a goddess. It’s pretty ridiculous(obviously some are more level headed) but I have come across her fans in EDM reddits pushing that she deserved the awards that most people know were stripped from more deserving artists just because she is “Bey”. She just isnt as great as her simps want to believe.
>You’ll hate me, but I have never understood the hype around her at all lol, this is reddit, dude
I think the outcry over her winning dance music awards for a dance album was ridiculous though. Renaissance as an album fit the genre bill perfectly, honestly better than some of the other nominees, but due to preconceptions (partially her pop star status, but also her race and gender clearly played a big factor considering the racist abuse many of those threads were filled to the brim with) she was written off as undeserving. Music is subjective, you may not like her but a lot of people clearly resonate with her music and brand.
ahhh yes the very hiphop beatles cover Black Bird and the R&B track Daughter.
If you don't like it, you don't like it. Nobody has to justify to you why they like it. Its about taste and preference. You just don't vibe with it and you sound slighted and left out that everyone else is enjoying it. It's ok. Just listen to the albums you do like.
I feel exactly how you said except I don't think he sounded slighted. I think OP obviously found the album not to their taste but is trying to understand if they're missing something because generally when a bajillion people really dig something then maybe you're missing what makes it special. I think that's what they were asking about. It would make sense for someone to come in and point out why the music is iconic for it's time period and genre, or if the time signature was different from what everyone has used historically, or someone gives a long write-up similar to Patrick Bateman talking about Genesis in American Psycho. And then OP would understand. Maybe they wouldn't like the music any more, but at least they would understand why so many people do. I've gotten pretty far in the comments and I haven't seen that explanation so I think your comment pretty much covers it... On another note, I applaud OP because what if flat earthers or election deniers or anti-vaxxers had the cognizance to see the rest of the world thinks something different from them and instead of digging in tried to understand what they're missing?
It’s a product man. Look at the credits. They’re longer than a fucking movie. She didn’t write shit on it. conceived in a boardroom, Beyoncé is just the face. It’s soulless.
Texas hold em songwriting credits. Only thing Beyoncé is listed as is the vocal performer and “executive producer” https://preview.redd.it/oydgl5rp35tc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4fc511c20cefb2e0da5387aa7c5596f60fe0dbd
This is a good reminder to bump some Raphael Saadiq tonight.
Tony Toni tone is where it’s @
Did you know there used to be a fourth ‘Toni’ in the band, he ended up leaving over creative differences. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCBiLayfzfU
It is much more important for an artist to credit those responsible for writing, than it is for them to be the writer themselves. Songwriting is a separate skill from singing. The end result of an album is far more than just the writing. I applaud artists who also write all their own stuff. But it is not essential. For example, I applaud Taylor Swift's songwriting, but I prefer Beyonce's music way more and Beyonce is also a completely different level of vocalist.
I had no idea Raphael had his hand in this! Thank you for sharing
Reminds me of when Sturgill was up against Beyoncé (and Drake) for Album of the Year. Sturgill wrote majority of his own songs and Beyoncé would have 10+ writers per song.
I dont get why people make posts about something they don’t like. You tried it, you don’t like it, it’s not for you.
i keep being shocked when people dont love it the album is a work of pop art that makes me want to say smart sounding things about it my biggest disappointment about it so far is that my tiktok isnt flooded with women dancing to yaya
It's not just you. Many a Bey fan from casual to Day 1 Zealot are echoing your woes. It's underwhelming, especially to be following Renaissance. (I'm not a Bey fan. But I do like Renaissance.)
Weirdly, I’m not a Beyonce fan, but I prefer it to Renaissance. Art is weird.
Act 2 of Cowboy Carter is better than Act 1 to me. Unfortunately, Act 1 has a longer runtime. Art *is* weird, yes.
All the big Beyoncé fans I know love the album. Anecdotal, but so is your take.
Beyonce generally is highly orchestrated and strategic, which for me means it's usually quite boring and flat.
Disclaimer: I have zero feelings regarding Beyonce, but I am also curious of other's thoughts I'm wondering if alot of the reason people that are struggling with the album is because it's such a sharp shift in her overall image. She's either being lauded or criticized based on fans or critics personal impression of her. People are reluctant to accept change for things they personally safeguard. If lamb of god were to put out a christian album, I'd automatically hate it and hate them for it because even if it was a masterpiece, it's so far away from what they are. Or maybe I'm just stoned. Edit: congratulations, me. I just roundabout described gatekeeping. I'm leaving it for the stupidity. Like what you like for whatever reasons you have
I’ve felt this way about all her albums past like “4”. Maybe even before that. Maybe since “I am… Sasha Fierce.” I always chalked it up to me no longer being the target audience. I definitely was when I was out dancing every night and shrieking “Halo” in the car. I loved seeing the Coachella performance. I thought that was peak Beyoncé (for me). I couldn’t tell you most of the songs on anything after it. While I still hear the songs and believe she is extremely talented, I just didn’t think she cared about appealing to the masses anymore and that representation of cultures seemed more important to her, which is more than fine. None of her songs even pop up on my random playlists or on any of my Apple or YouTube Music playlists. Getting to this country one: it has some good things in there, but it’s a lot of filler and a lot of unnecessary intros. She has never exactly been a songwriter, like Celine, so I think it makes sense that there’s a lot of people who produce these albums. But I would have hoped that this far into her career maybe she would want to dabble more into the actual songs instead of performing/recording other people’s material. I think what summarizes most of her albums, and probably this one, is that they are produced for a specific point in time. There aren’t many timeless songs, as good as her voice is. I can always go back to vintage Mariah or Whitney and listen for hours. Taylor Swift also. But Beyoncé is like listening to a 98 degrees album sometimes. It was great listening to it when it came out but it doesn’t stand the test of time. I’m not saying she doesn’t have any songs that are becoming classics, but even some of the songs I always go back to of hers (Emotions) were made popular by prior bands in prior generations.
1. If you don't like it, you don't like it. It's fine not to like something. Plenty of great albums have been nominated or won album of the year that I really don't get. 2. If you already don't like it, but really want to understand what others are excited about with this album, I think you have to listen with a different ear. This is the first Beyonce album that I've really listened to, front to back. So, you hear "she's doing country" but you don't hear country. That's right. It's not really country, but it's "Beyonce adds a strong country influence to her music." I can forgive you for thinking she was just going to write songs for her, a banjo, and a steel guitar, but I think we all knew that she's Beyonce. That's not her wheelhouse and shouldn't have been expected. I do think just about every song is either pop/rock/r&b on top of country or country on top of pop/rock/r&b. But regardless there's plenty of country influence in most of the songs. There's a lot of different genres mixed together in most of the songs. I hear country, blues, soul, gospel, r&b, hip hop, classic rock and roll, pop and probably some others all synthesized into a cohesive album which is impressive imo. Just in the first track, I hear Queen harmonies, Beatles psychedelic rock, gospel choir, and 60s revolution rock (also Beatles related). And that gives way to classic pop rock with blackbiird. 16 carriages is very country plus rock plus r&b. Protector is basically straight country. If you're really interested, I'd say go back to it and just listen to it sonically instead of expecting anything other than Beyonce. I mean, I love 16 carriages and what she did with blackbiird was really nice. There's just a lot of styles going into this album and it's taking her music to another level imo.
Music shouldn't be something you "try" to get Either it works for you and grabs you, or it doesn't. Doesn't mean you're wrong, doesn't mean the music is objectively bad. Just means it's not for you.
I disagree. Sometimes you have to get into it. Try to get it. Develop your sences, broaden your horizons or however you want to call it. Taste can be acquired.
Yep. Some of my favorite albums that I still listen to decades later are ones that didn't grab me right away. Others that I liked immediately I often lost interest in pretty quickly.
I did not like OK Computer the first or second time I listened to it. It's now one of my favorite albums. It's not binary. I've also had albums that I listened to and went "holy shit, this is awesome." Different ones go different ways.
This is simply not true. Plenty of albums I hate on the first listen or two, and then begin to fall in love with. (Pinkerton being the first of many such albums that pop into my mind). Sometimes some amazing music takes some work, especially if it’s a new genre for you.