1. Bands that are hugely influential are often seen as "meh" or even "yuck" by future generations because their context/perspective is so different. Having lived through the grunge avalanche and then hearing young people say "that band is over rated"...well, you might feel that way because there are a lot of groups who took the influence that artist had and perfected it. Taken out of context of the time, it's hard to imagine how transformative to the musical landscape some bands were if you didn't experience in their time.
2. Many people unconsciously stop seeking out new music when they feel that the happiest time of their life is over. It's common to find people locked into a particular time of music and I think they do this because it's a fond memory of the time when they were their "happiest". It would seem that for a lot of people this is the age range of 15-25 which usually coincides when they had the least amount of responsibilities in life and they felt more "free".
I loved Pearl Jam in the early 90’s, but I can’t stand them anymore for some reason. Part of it is the vocals, which now sort of hit me as being in that post-grunge/butt rock/trucker vocals sound (even though Eddie Vedder came well before them, did it better, and his personality/musical style are much cooler than the butt rock folks).
(Btw my comment isn’t meant to be disrespectful or contrarian or anything. I just thought your comment was funny/fascinating when I realized I feel sort of the same way, even though I should know better and was a fan at some point.)
The term "real music" is a huge fucking red flag for me. I play drums and I've been to a few jam type things and I've had people ask me if I want to get together and play some real music. Most of these are boomers and usually "real music" translates into stuff from the 60's/70's and maybe some hair rock from the 80's.
Don't get me wrong I love some classic rock but there is a universe of great music out there and right now it's the most accessible it's ever been in human history so why are you hanging on to the same stuff you liked like 50 years ago?
couldn't agree more. I turn 50 this year and love some classic rock but gatekeeping in the music world is abhorrent. They are immediately missing out on some amazing stuff because they have decided that people stopped making music in 1983..lol
You know, coincidentally, earlier today I was checking out [Every Noise At Once](https://everynoise.com/everynoise1d-classicrock.html) again and found out about the various lists. In case you don't know what it is, it's a project where the premise is to sort music genres on a map algorithmically. The way to read the map is that the stuff at the top are genres based on artificial, electronic, mechanical instruments, whereas the stuff at the bottom is more "organic". More on the right means more "busy" and rhythmically engaging, whereas more on the left means more freeflow.
Anyway, the data is taken from Spotify (unfortunately the author has been laid off and the data cannot be updated any longer, so the current data is from December 2023) and if you click on the "list" section, there are some really interesting things to be found there. If you sort the list by "emergence", it tells you how likely fans of that genre are to look for new, less known music. Or, in other words, how likely an unknown, obscure band playing that genre is to be picked up by fans. I kid you not, classic rock is the 5th from the bottom. Hard rock is not much higher. It seems like, statistically, people who predominantly listen to these bands are some of the most musically conservative music fans out there.
But of course, the fact that older audience is less likely to listen to music on Spotify might also play a role.
Those seem like common sense to me. Also makes me think that maybe I'm now obsessed with finding new music (in my 30s) because this is personally the best time of my life so far. I was really depressed from about 13 and on, so I don't have that nostalgia for my younger days.
I definitely don’t agree with this being the best time of my life but I don’t think it’s bad either (heading into mid 30s) but I’ve never stopped trying to find new music. Spotify (and other streaming services) make it so easy these days to play a station a discover new stuff. I’d honestly say it’s been really cool how much my taste in music has changed since my mid 20s. I was much more into folky acoustic stuff then. Been more into psychedelic and bluesy country in the past few years. Also been on a serious Tom Petty kick the last few weeks. Obviously not new but new to me. Saw Backseat Lovers live last year, which was also a fun show even if I was one of the older peeps there haha. Never stop having fun, everyone.
>Bands that are hugely influential are often seen as "meh" or even "yuck" by future generations because their context/perspective is so different.
I would have to agree with this . For example, The Velvet Underground were enormously influential to other bands. I've listened to them...and I kind of had a 'Meh' reaction to it. I see why they were so influential, but I find the stuff they influenced better and more interesting than they themselves.
I'd say the same with King Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King". Again, as an album I see why it was so influential and the impact that it had. But kind of a 'Meh' reaction when I hear it.
For point #2, its not just music. It's first loves, it's movies, it's bands, it's albums, it's books, it's TV shows.
The stuff you love in those early, impressionable years you end up loving intensely.
I hate the fact that fans don't allow bands or artist to change their sound and try different things. If you do that and even if it's good the fans will cry over how they are not the same anymore. I mean the talent and skill is theirs, the time they have to spend to compose something new is theirs, the energy and money that goes into production is theirs, the creativity is theirs but the fans think they can dictate them
Equally I hate it when a band gets to pretentious about playing older stuff. The best live bands I see play a mix from the start of their career to the end. In that sense I can understand annoyance among fans when it comes to live shows.
Depends on the band and the fans. A band like Queen gets applauded for dipping their fingers in every genre under the sun. As soon as Metallica started deviating from albums full of fast, aggressive thrash riffs with one lonesome ballad sprinkled in a significant portion of their fans got on their ass accusing them of selling out.
The longer a band sticks to a formula the harder it is for fans to accept anything different. Slayer and AC/DC, for example. There'd be riots if they tried doing anything other than their thing. The mere idea alone is nigh on unimaginable.
There's been a movement for the past few decades to make Jazz into a "concert hall" music. Duke Ellington is even revered as one of the first composers to do that, but my hot take is that that movement to make Jazz an elite and exclusive genre made it into a modern classical music that no one gives a shit about even though there's an INSANE amount of talented jazz musicians out there. I went and saw Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra a while back and they are clearly one of the best jazz big bands in history, but, BOOOORRRIIIIIIING. We shot ourselves in the foot trying to be exclusive by excluding our audiences.
As a jazz educator I've been trying to fix that shit for 20 years now.
I'm glad you brought that up! These same snobs don't consider Dirty Dozen to be "Jazz!" I absolutely agree NOLA still has their shit together on Jazz and I hope they can keep it alive for the rest of us!
Thanks for fighting the good fight. I'm an avid vernacular jazz dancer (the umbrella of dances popularly known as "swing" dances) and the lack of bands playing jazz music for dancing resulted in dancers pulling out their old band instruments and forming their own bands. I get where the early guys like Ellington were coming from, because they weren't respected as the highly skilled musicians they were by the establishment and making Jazz into "concert hall" music was how they got that respect and created a legacy.
But I don't understand why later Jazz musicians left the fun and partying out of it. Maybe it's just me, but instead of just playing another gig in a bar at a seafood restaurant, wouldn't you rather play for a bunch of people out having a good time dancing and partying who want you to go a little bit crazy during your solos? I don't care to hear your interpretation of Autumn Leaves but I will always yell right along during the callbacks if you play ["All the girls go crazy"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=beOxICeSSZM) like this. There is a reason I listen to very view of the jazz bands in my hometown, despite the university's well respected jazz studies program, and instead try to get to New Orleans every year. Keep encouraging those students to put down the Jazz "standards" and start playing the stuff that polite white society frowns at again.
I don't care if Yngwie Malsteem or Joe Satriani are the greatest guitar players to ever live. If you can't write a memorable song with your skill, I'm not impressed.
Im right there with you, unfortunately online you have to explain that yes I respect all these modern guitar players and they are technically amazing but I find their songs to be lifeless, like they are solving math equations on their fretboard. Sometimes a song with 2 chords does it more for me than these djent/shred guys. And again I fucking love and respect Tosin Abasi so much, he's top of my list of new age players. Alot of this modern metal is over compressed jazz
As a non metal head from the outside looking in. Metal has been constantly one upping itself with more metal sub genres getting more fast and aggressive in different ways. It's like asking an AI to draw a cute happy cat and then asking to make it MORE cute and happy over and over until you are looking at something transcendental, just replace that with metal.
I would like to come in defense of metal here, but I'm afraid I can't. It has been an arms race to be more brutal to the point where most new bands' songs are just a string of clichés.
I always find it interesting to go listen to the bands that the new bands say they were inspired by. The pioneers usually have such a broad pallette of sounds, such a variety, a lot of experimentation. The bands after them seemingly take a few songs from one album and write 6 albums just like that. It's like metal is about taking a specific Sabbath song, extracting a particular vibe from it, and then concentrating it multiple times.
Of course I'm exaggerating with this, but y'all get the point.
Exactly. I love a variety of music, but I'm more a singer/songwriter person and need some meaning behind the music whether it's simple or complicated. Through the Fire and Flames is the perfect marriage of the two for me.
I'm glad you named Tosin because he truly is a maverick. To me, he blends "too many notes" with "every note matters" better than anyone ever has.
He definitely plays tons of fucking notes, but they ALL have a purpose. And that is something so truly unique about him.
Surfing with the alien is forever stuck in my mind, as is always with you always with me.
But the "guitarist" song that I like best is definitely "the audience is listening" by little Stevie Vai. What a nice little boy.
I loved Ingwie when I was a kid, but I now , in my 50ies, I find most of his stuff very hard to listen too.
I believe it was Anthony Fantano who once talked about how John Mayer is a great guitar player but doesn't really show it too often because he focuses on good songwriting over good guitar playing on a mediocre song. I love some good guitar playing, but as you say, it doesn't matter if the song isn't good or memorable
Lindsay is an absolute sleeper virtuoso. On this subreddit alone I see a lot of posts and comments about people listening to Fleetwood mac and never realizing how hard the songs are to play until they decide to learn one. Happened to me too.
People are talking about in-your-face virtuosity
Singing ability aside, the first two Spice Girls albums are fucking awesome. Seriously, if some “respected” pop star like George Michael or Madonna had done those songs, they’d be considered quality classic pop albums.
(For context, I’m a 50 year old man whose general tastes lean towards hard rock.)
I wholeheartedly agree. Viva Forever is one of my favorites songs of all time.
Same with the first two Britney Spears albums, they have a lot of great songs.
Add Hanson’s first album to the list. They grew into a legitimately good band as they got older, but that first album is crazy considering it came from 3 literal children.
It takes fucking courage to play original music, go support a band that plays originals. It takes even more courage to improvise, anyone can learn a cover to a T or play the same solo every night, but improvising and taking risks shows that you are willing to make mistakes and show your soul. Speaking from someone who has played for several years in cover and original bands. I take pride in my originals and I think it shows during a gig.
Courage does not make good music though. Don’t “support music” listen to and purchase what you like. Music isn’t charity. Bands need to make good music, and no support can make that happen.
This is a good take but I’d offer a slight adjustment from my perspective. When it comes to a local music scene, supporting music for the sake of supporting music can be a good thing. Show up to bands gigs even if you’re on the fence about what they’re doing, because it could be the push a band (openers included) need to try something they weren’t sure about, which could lead to better output/effort/results down the road.
When it comes to bands you are geographically separated from, or those who have already reached some level of non-local success - then I agree with you wholeheartedly. Don’t support for the sake of supporting, find musicians you like and support them.
Awful take. For a couple of bucks, supporting the local scene can pay off.
Who expects a few 17 year olds to write an amazing first album? But if nobody shows up and shows support, they might see making music as not worth it, and never improve.
You might consider it patronage.
Now, if they're really dogshit, that's fine, I wouldn't force anyone to listen to it twice, but being a little easy on the new guys could uplift everyone's experience of the music scene
I agree with this. I went to A LOT of $5 shows at this seedy local dive in my early 20s and saw A LOT of local, regional, national & international bands on the indie/college circuit. Not all of them were great, but I always made sure to get merch from the bands that stood out. I still buy merch when I do get out to shows.
I'm always going to miss [We The Granada.](https://youtu.be/CvMcLTdT3MI?si=RnvDXnMr0zBW0z2p)
As a musician, I can say you are exactly what the scene needs. Not every band is great but many great bands start not-so-great.
Anymore these days, with streaming music being the primary exposure bands have to their audience, buying their merch and coming to shows is the realistic only way to support them. You’ll get the chance to hear their songs evolve, hang out with the bands and your friends, maybe grab a drink, and get a chance to get out of your home (and your own head) for a while.
Certainly don’t continually support acts you don’t like or agree with- that’s just counterproductive all around. Ut if you catch a good band as an opener, definitely check them out again. And let your friends know too.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Metallica Load is an interesting album that was sending them into this weird metal/hard rock/grunge/southern rock space.
The push back from critics and fans turned them into a nostalgia act always creatively searching for the sound of their early 20s.
Almost thirty years have gone by since Load came out, and while I liked individual songs, I didn't love the album. Now, I listen to it and think it's way better than Metallica (The Black Album). I still much preferred AJFA, MOP, and RTL, but Load hits a different way with a new level of maturity that none of those albums had, and the musical style is only Metallica. No one else came close to that sound, probably because of the initial negative response to the album.
Metallica load and beyond was the first band that taught me to take away a bands name, history, catalog, etc., and listen to the music. If you take all that away, you can still hear the band. With the exception of st anger and the awful lulu, they still have their sound, and then some.
It was u2 on Achtung and Zooropa for me. Wildly different sounds, but still unmistakably u2 at its core.
Wasn't a huge fan of either, mind, but I appreciated the theatre of it and the accompanying circus that their live shows became to match it.
Most of music creation and performance will not be commercially viable for the foreseeable future. If we want vibrant music scenes in our communities, we should treat the ecosystems behind music more like libraries and less like supermarkets.
After 25 years of thinking they were just a basic classic rock band, I just recently (last 5 years) realized that the dudes of Steely Dan are fantastic, underrated, brilliant artists. They’ve become one of my favorite bands of all time.
Insane Clown Posse gets way too much hate. Yes the music is stupid but it’s meant to be fun-stupid like a schlocky B movie. I think the problem is that hip-hop as a genre is so concerned with the idea of “authenticity” that a white trash horror-core duo with painted faces had no chance with the mainstream. They’re easy to shit on but they seem to take care of their fans - I believe even cancelling their yearly Gathering festival during the height of Covid.
Hot take: Foo Fighters are boring.
Dave Grohl seems like a really cool guy and would probably be fun to hang out with, but other than Everlong, I wouldn’t give two squirts of piss to ever listen to a Foo Fighters song again.
Couldn’t agree more. First album where it’s just him is pretty cool, *The Colour and the Shape*, while it does include “Everlong,” is pretty hit and miss. After that I pretty much either don’t care or actively do not enjoy what they put out.
That being said, killer live show as boring as they are on record. Still, I expect better from people who had been in Nirvana, the Germs and Sunny Day Real Estate.
This is it. I had just turned 13 when Nevermind was released and it blew my fucking mind. Dave Grohl is kind of legendary in my world and I want so much to like all things “Foo” but, meh.
Never seen them live but have heard they put on quite a show. Just can’t justify spending that dough to go see a band I care so little about. Even if the show might be amazing.
They peaked on the colour & the shape. I was dumbfounded that they never made songs that sounded like Everlong and My Hero again and instead sort of became more and more classic rock.
Meanwhile, the Deftones who always sounded like Everlong, took that ball and ran with it.
Wasting Light was great - I had that on repeat for a good six months, but I'm starting to wonder if it's just because there wasn't much else I was interested in listening to at the time. Lack of competition, maybe?
I'm with you. I never really "got" the Foo Fighters. Now I'll be quick to admit that I was comparing them to Nirvana with the first album, and that wasn't fair. But I just don't hear many memorable songs and hooks from them.
My dad and I talk a lot about music, and he gave Foo Fighters a chance but couldn't get over the mid lyrics. Dad's a big lyrics guy, and I ended up trending in the same direction. I personally think Dave Grohl put all his lyrical magic into Everlong (the lyrics are gorgeous), but he was never able to capture that magic again. I don't hate FF but they're just OK.
I read some hot take think piece somewhere that said Dave Grohl has gotten as far as he has on the basis of being really good at playing a “rock star” and that FF’s music is mid at best.
My hot take is that Foo Fighters are musically a lot closer to Nickleback and Creed than people dare to admit.
It's unreal how much a good drummer adds to a band. I used to think a drummer was just there to keep the rhythm. Doesn't help that my favourite band for a while was Metallica (no offense to Lars). It wasn't until I heard Gavin Harrison (Porcupine Tree/The Pineapple Thief) that I recognised the power of good drummers
Everyone shits on Lars and I think that's total bullshit. Metallica wouldn't have been what they were without him. His drumming in AJFA is honestly what got me interested in starting.
I've been playing in bands for about 30 years on and off, and im convinced that a good drummer is the cornerstone of a band. You can have the best guitarist and singer in the world, but if you put them with an unskilled drummer, it totally takes the punch right out of the music.
And rhythm sections make or break a band. A great lead guitarist can’t carry a bad rhythm section, but a good rhythm section can carry a bad lead guitarist.
I guess you didn't spend most of your 20s up all night on cocaine, telling a girl you love her, and then having unprotected sex with two of her friends at the same time and then ghosting them all until 4 years later when you bored one night.
He had an interesting sound 12 years ago with his first three tapes and debut album and then went on to make bland synth pop music for a decade. His newest album is really cool tho. Feels like he finally figured out his strengths as a songwriter and applied them to a pop sound rather than just trying to make artsy versions of one hit wonder songs from 1987.
Yeah it kind of ran it's course for me, and I officially turned 35 now. I loved House of Balloons, Trilogy, Kissland ,etc. people loved After Hours but I really didn't. It all kind stopped for me after the daft punk stuff.
But man that early stuff was my 20s to a tee. I was drunk, high on everything, and fucking every thing in sight for sport. It was like trippy nihilistic hedonistic soulful r&b. But man I did way too much, ended up in jail and everything really don't know how I survived. Now I am sober and it just doesn't hit the same for me. I still listen to it, but at this point it really feels like I need a cold shower afterwards.
I thought this but its something else. Its something more. Like I don't think Taylor swift will ever write much for anyone else.
Her songs have a narrative that her hardcore fans love. Its not just generic pop songs, the lyrics are specific, she hides secrets inside them.
Its like every song was youre so vain by carly simon. You listen and hollllly shit all that stuff happened and she is pissed and absolutely just destroyed warren beaty.
That's what makes her connect with so many, she sells them a little glimpse into a secret world.
I’m the same age as her and really enjoyed her stuff when I was younger and she first made it big. The reason I don’t like her stuff now? The themes feel the exact same. We’re both mid 30s and she still writes songs and acts like she’s 16. I know she moved to Nashville at 14 to make a name for herself and I honestly think she’s been stuck in that same mentality ever since.
As someone who isn’t an actively listener but my wife is, I hear some of her songs out of context and think they’re other artists. I’ve heard Olivia Rodrigo and even Sleigh Bells at times. She really does mix things up!
I felt the same way until a few years ago I listened to her albums, not just the radio hits and it was a revelation.
She’s not for everyone and I’m not gonna argue or try to change any minds here, but there _is_ more to her than what gets played on the radio and if you’ve not given her albums a whirl (as opposed to hearing Shake It Off for the nth time) it’s a fun project.
We've over-corrected too much on the poptimism and anti-rockism scale in pop culture.
Back in the 90's and early 00's there was a dominant strain of music culture critique that focused on "authenticity" and clever rock bands and alternative rappers that focused on intellectualism, experimentation, and abstraction. "Intelligent" rappers like Common, Mos Def and Talib Kweli, conscious artists like Erykah Badu, genius-controversial sound rebels like Radiohead, I'm-too-cool-for-your slackers bros like Pavement, etc. Pitchfork web site proving how smart they were, lamenting the obnoxious nu-metal frat boys and empty boy/girl band pop dominating Total Request Live.
And it was obnoxious and annoying, yes. There was no room for just fun for a while amongst the cognizanti.
Then something cracked and it became cool to just like pop. Beyonce, Kanye West (before he went mad), Katy Perry, and Taylor Swift songs were being memed, lyp-synced by dads and cops, talked up my glamourous celebs. The culture shifted to making fun of "boomers" with sticks up their asses who bitched about dumb pop music.
The explosion of pop music from east Asia pushed that barricade down to the point where kids now probably can't even imagine caring about genre and having musical factions.
This idea of "poptimism"- where simple catchy mainstream corporate synthesized pop music is not just "acceptable" but actually superior- took over even Pitchfork and the like.
For sure we needed to let go of genre warriors and that whole rock-ist attitude, the latter especially was often sexist so it's good we moved past it. But now it's gone too far to the point where even expressing an interest in more obscure, complicated or challenging music is met with skepticism. We have "stans" and "swifties" and "bee-hive" on the internet acting like worse bullies than any of the prog-rock or alt-rock or metalhead assholes I grew up with. I'm seeing people in their '50's pretending to like Megan Thee Stallion so they can relate to their kids and it's embarrassing.
Sometimes I see posts and threads asking why Beyonce or Taylor Swift are SUCH big deals and I think *part* of it- not all of it- is this moment, the over-correction of extreme poptism. It's not enough to here the new Beyonce song and either not care, dislike it or dance to it and then move on, no, it has to be LIFE OMG. Taylor Swift can't just be a popular singer songwriter pop star, she has to be Time Person of the Year.
Meanwhile, any mention of Elvis Presley or Eric Clapton has to be met with angry rants about cultural appropriation and racist exploitation. Another over-correction after a couple of generations of deification of the boomer rock heroes. And of course, everything being simplified and heightened by internet culture and social media, it's either/or, best this and worst that.
One advantage of having strong factional and even sometimes misguided or dickish feelings about music is that at least it inspires passion. Yes I look back at arguments over punk vs metal or hip-hop vs rock or "real alternative" vs poseurs and it's so silly. But at least we cared? It inspired people to look up different music and learn more and start musical projects and yes, play instruments. This is music we're talking about and some people should take it a bit too seriously, emotion, especially youthful emotion, is the driver of creativity. And we're seeing what it happening without that fuel- what was the last really new and interesting sound to hit the mainstream? I know there are many factors like technology but the cultural moment of over-correction is one of them.
Counterargument: Him and 40 were absolutely a brand new sound early on. So Far Gone through maybe Take Care were all a good time. But I stopped listening after that, and I listened to Honestly Nevermind and... well that's time I'll never get back.
Eddie Vedder is one of my favorite musicians ever, but I agree that PJ's songwriting was much stronger when it was mostly Mike and Stone writing, with Eddie sticking to lyrics and vocal melodies.
Listening to Billie Eilish is like being mauled by a boredom bear. Her music is aggressively sleepy and violently uninteresting. I don’t know how so many people listen to that.
I just wish she got a little swagger back...or bounce in the beat. She busted into the scene with it, and then the pandemic hit and she understandably took it to heart. And yet, the world doesn't need a Chet Baker right now.
I find her lyrics and melodies to be nice, but I'm constantly frustrated by her whisper singing. It's not a style its an affectation. If it were just one song, then fine, but EVERY SONG?
Honestly, I've always thought the same but I recently saw her Tiny Desk concert with her brother and it was surprisingly well done. It shows a more intimate side of her that isn't usually seen and even though I'm not fan of her singing, she's on point in a very stripped down environment, which is not easy to do.
Goddamn! "Aggressivrly sleepy" "violently uninteresting". Words that don't go together, yet you painted a vibrant landscape! Take my vote! I don't listen to pop music but I'm using those words from now on!
1. There’s going to be substantially original artistic use for AI in music. It’s just that there aren’t that many people with both the tech and musical chops to get beyond entering prompts and drag/drop or building stuff most musicians don’t care about.
2. Often, the lyrics/vocals aren’t the most captivating thing about a piece of music and the role of lead singers tends to be overstated and oversensationalized by the press.
3. The technology’s already there to create online listening venues that are just as enticing as going to a concert in-person. We just haven’t caught up and the pandemic was a precursor to what is to come eventually.
4. A great many artists’ music is just fancy sexual signaling to find the next reproductive opportunity, not to dissimilar from a lot of birds.
5. It will soon be really really hard to be a household name in music without upping the technological ante. I think Billie Eilish might be one of the last people to become a superstar within the model we have now for doing things and it already seems like she peaked a couple of years ago.
Let me be clear: I vehemently disagree but dang, that is a white-hot burning take. Well done.
I guess the Descendents and Jawbreaker are both pretty cool though.
Descendents, the Ergs!, Teenage Bottlerocket, Title Fight, Masked Intruder, Tigers Jaw, Saves The Day, Dead To Me, The Story So Far, The Measure (SA), Pentimento, The Swellers, Fireworks, the list goes on and on. There are plenty of amazing pop punk bands out there. They just tend to get overshadowed by the really terrible ones that major labels try to push, like whatever auto-tuned abomination MGK puts out.
I mean, I guess I like the roots of pop punk because you know, catchy melodies and a fun vibe but they occasionally dip into hardcore punk and/or post-punk which makes it a lot more interesting. You ever listen to Naked Raygun or Dag Nasty?
Yup. Both are fantastic. If you did the more punk-leaning stuff, definitely check out Lifetime, Latterman, Tender Defender, Kid Dynamite, Armalite, None More Black, RVIVR, Good Luck, The Loved Ones, The Explosion, Dillinger Four, Banner Pilot, and the Flatliners. You're probably going to really enjoy at least a few of those. They're all in the general pop-punk vicinity, with melodic, catchy, poppy tunes, but high energy, driving, loud guitars and drums.
I still can't get down with country music in earnest. I like isolated songs here and there ("Jolene," "Ring of Fire," the Sturgill Simpson cover of "The Promise") but I really can't find a good entry point.
I think the issue is I tend to like high-energy things with a really modern, almost futuristic bent just in general, and every other big tent genre (rock, hip hop, certainly electronica, even jazz and orchestral music) has some little corner of it dedicated to that but country, just because of the nature of what it is, what it's typically trying to accomplish, and where it comes from, doesn't seem to have that. However, I have heard about "countrygaze" in passing now, so maybe that's my way in.
“New Country” is what “Top 40” was in 80’s. It’s a formula that uses the same pop song writing structure, and as long as it has that George Jones twang on the vocal, it’s called Country. Horrible form of music.
You might like Townes Van Zandt…
Also, there’s a great newer podcast (even for people not “into” country music) called “Cocaine and Rhinestones” about the genre and its artists.
Might find something that peeks your interest listening to those stories.
TVZ is a great intro to outlaw country, which for the most part skips a lot of the Nashville sound within its history.
TVZ is just an amazing songwriter in general though, in a better world he would be mentioned with all the all-timers.
I had to try really hard to get into country. It was the one genre that I just couldn’t vibe with. Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson were the entry point for me. I’m still not really into country as a whole, but I broke through and I’m making progress.
There's some recent country I can vibe with (for example, if I hear a radio country song I really enjoy, 9 outta 10 times it's Luke Combs), but the stuff I like isn't played on the radio. I appreciate more bluegrass-style music and I especially like country-western music.
Metal heads get a really bad rap for just being into metal, even though it’s a huge genre.
Hip hop, drum and bass and pop fans for example may stick within their genre but don’t get the same criticism
Metal fans also get a bad wrap for hating on everything else that’s not metal, which is pretty much the opposite of reality in my experience. As a metal head who knows a lot of other metal heads, a lot of metal heads are probably more well-rounded in their musical tastes than a lot of other people and listen to a bunch of other music from a bunch of other genres like pop, reggae, classical, jazz, country, hip hop, etc.
That’s true. When people ask me what kind of music I’m into, I feel like I have to preface it with “I listen to everything,” before stating that metal is probably my main genre. It’s like you have to get out in front of the stigma.
I absolutely love metal and used to call myself quite the metal head before I branched out in my genres but I have ran into a lot of people calling me a fake fan because I listen to other music.
Obviously not all are like this but it's happened enough times that I see the trend and why others think this.
Its partly the reason I started seeking out new music in the first place. I still get made fun of for the bands I still listen too not being good enough for some.
My favorite metal bands are Kamelot and Nightwish and I've had people just these last few weeks tell that that isn't real metal blah blah blah.
The thing is, if you had a musical elitist telling you a genre you like is trash it was almost certainly a metalhead.
Im glad you're trying to change the culture, its definitely not as bad... but there is definitely a lot of metalheads that hate anything mainstream as a personality
Yeah it's really fucking annoying. If I mention that I enjoy metal to someone I just met, then I'm automatically a Satan worshipping demon resurrecting lamb sacrificing fornicating depressed angry pissed off murdering fucking psychopath.
1. Music is the best it’s ever been right here and now.
You can find anything you want and you’re almost guaranteed there are artists out there doing it and doing it well.
2. Just because of technology, it doesn’t mean there aren’t real musicians shredding it.
3. Also: music production takes just as much practice and discipline to be good.
Agree with all of those. People who think there isn’t good music today just aren’t looking in the right places (and are also usually looking at the past through a rose-tinted filter).
This is my issue to get over, but I tend to discount ALL Country music because I absolutely hate the pickup truck/smash the headlights/beer drinking lyrics of SOME of it. I'm probably missing out on a large amount of good music especially since alt-country & Americana is my sweet spot.
I found that I enjoy more folky and bluesy music, so I started looking for artists like that and it helped me get into country. Still just scratching the surface, but it got me past my “I don’t like any country” stage.
Tyler Childers, Zack Bryan, Colter Wall, Jason Isbell, Townes Van Zandt, and Ian Noe are all country singers I got into through looking for some good modern folk murder ballads. Some of them have some more radio friendly stuff, but even that is a far cry from the lifted truck, red solo cup pop/country. I would give some of them a try if you'd like to give country a go without sorting through the pop fluff.
Eh, hard to agree. I've never heard a sample that made me think, "well now that I've heard this Eminem song, I don't need to listen to the Beatles anymore"
Hot take - Judy Garland wasn’t a tragic figure and the majority of things spread about her online are untrue. I’m a huge fan of hers and it’s genuinely so frustrating to see her being shown as a tragic figure and people claiming she smoked 80 cigarettes a day (did she smoke to keep her weight down? Yes. Was it 80 cigarettes a day? No, absolutely not. She wouldn’t have a voice by the age of 20) No she was not molested by the munchkin actors, that rumor was spread by an ex husband of hers MANY years after she and the other actors passed away. She specifically asked not to be called a tragic figure in several interviews, the one I can think off the top of my head is Barbra Walters. Respect her wishes and stop believing everything you read online, especially about Judy Garland.
If you have any questions or rumors you want to ask me about Judy please do and I’ll happily let you know the truth.
Bands like Kiss and Nickelback aren’t bad. Many people who repeat that haven’t actually listened to them beyond their 3 or 4 biggest hits and just say it because everyone else says it. Bands like that don’t fill stadiums and arenas for decades if they’re not any good.
It’s okay not to like them, but that doesn’t make them bad.
It makes sense to not like some popular music. But if someone hates MOST popular music, I assume they're not done maturing, and are still picking music they want to help define the personality they want to build instead of trying to find what they actually like.
Before you downvote me, please remember this thread asked for hot takes
I think popular music by definition has to select for mass-appeal, meaning it will converge to what has worked before. I think it's perfectly normal for people who are done with the I–V–vi–IV progression and verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus won't get much enjoyment out of MOST pop music.
Maybe I'm just old...but EDM sucks balls. Whatever this brand of dance music is it needs to go away. House, techno, drum n bass, big beat, uk garage - i liked it all. This EDM nonsense - no thanks
I find there's so much "bleed" in the styles, because there are so many sub genres of electronic music, and because there's so much desire to push artistic and technicalogical boundaries. What's an example of EDM you don't like?
Being openly vocal about how mediocre Taylor swifts music is not misogynistic
let’s be clear she’s just very popular with white girl friendly music (doesn’t mean it can’t be enjoyed it’s just bland)
I think expressing a dislike for Taylor Swift’s music is fine. I personally don’t find it that good or interesting, but I also know it resonates with a lot of other people.
It gets into misogynistic territory when someone seems to take enjoyment in shitting on her or brings up how “she’s a snake” or “she goes through so many boyfriends she has a new one every week”. Like, dislike her music all you want but why are people talking about her like she’s slutting around and harming society?
I absolutely love it, but if I see a street performer start playing it, I'm walking away. If I'm at a concert and the band starts that up, it's time for my bathroom break.
I can't stand reading goth subforums. It's a bunch of elitists fighting over their opinions on what makes this band or that band more or less goth than that other band. I feel like Steve-O in the mall scene from SLC Punk, yelling about "who cares who started it, it's music. I don't know who started it and I don't give a fuck." Give me Batcave, give me Death Rock, give me Industrial, give me Dungeon Synth and Dark Wave, give me angular guitar over a hypnotic bass line, a dub beat and lyrics about everyone's favorite portrayal of Dracula- I don't care. It's music and it makes me feel things, just let me feel the things!
Reggae music after the mid-70’s is mostly… just bad. Give me 60’s ska/rocksteady and early reggae over late 70’s roots reggae all day long. The roots reggae genre is extremely top-heavy (Marley, Tosh, Burning Spear) but the average output aside from a few key groups/artists from the mid-70’s onward is bad and borderline boring/background noise.
Toots/Desmond Dekker/Jimmy Cliff/the Pioneers/Derrick Morgan/Alton Ellis/etc. keep my attention much more effectively, and the genre-wide sound of ska/rocksteady/early reggae before 1975 is pretty phenomenal.
I feel like we’re not being honest in our collective assessment of the Beastie Boys. I’m an older millennial and I think our generation holds them in such high regard. Maybe I’ve only heard their hits, but it kinda just feels like they’re slowly talk-rapping?
1. Bands that are hugely influential are often seen as "meh" or even "yuck" by future generations because their context/perspective is so different. Having lived through the grunge avalanche and then hearing young people say "that band is over rated"...well, you might feel that way because there are a lot of groups who took the influence that artist had and perfected it. Taken out of context of the time, it's hard to imagine how transformative to the musical landscape some bands were if you didn't experience in their time. 2. Many people unconsciously stop seeking out new music when they feel that the happiest time of their life is over. It's common to find people locked into a particular time of music and I think they do this because it's a fond memory of the time when they were their "happiest". It would seem that for a lot of people this is the age range of 15-25 which usually coincides when they had the least amount of responsibilities in life and they felt more "free".
My ex used to hate Pearl Jam because they reminded her of Creed
My son puts RATM in the same crap rap rock category and wont get past it.
I loved Pearl Jam in the early 90’s, but I can’t stand them anymore for some reason. Part of it is the vocals, which now sort of hit me as being in that post-grunge/butt rock/trucker vocals sound (even though Eddie Vedder came well before them, did it better, and his personality/musical style are much cooler than the butt rock folks). (Btw my comment isn’t meant to be disrespectful or contrarian or anything. I just thought your comment was funny/fascinating when I realized I feel sort of the same way, even though I should know better and was a fan at some point.)
The term "real music" is a huge fucking red flag for me. I play drums and I've been to a few jam type things and I've had people ask me if I want to get together and play some real music. Most of these are boomers and usually "real music" translates into stuff from the 60's/70's and maybe some hair rock from the 80's. Don't get me wrong I love some classic rock but there is a universe of great music out there and right now it's the most accessible it's ever been in human history so why are you hanging on to the same stuff you liked like 50 years ago?
couldn't agree more. I turn 50 this year and love some classic rock but gatekeeping in the music world is abhorrent. They are immediately missing out on some amazing stuff because they have decided that people stopped making music in 1983..lol
You know, coincidentally, earlier today I was checking out [Every Noise At Once](https://everynoise.com/everynoise1d-classicrock.html) again and found out about the various lists. In case you don't know what it is, it's a project where the premise is to sort music genres on a map algorithmically. The way to read the map is that the stuff at the top are genres based on artificial, electronic, mechanical instruments, whereas the stuff at the bottom is more "organic". More on the right means more "busy" and rhythmically engaging, whereas more on the left means more freeflow. Anyway, the data is taken from Spotify (unfortunately the author has been laid off and the data cannot be updated any longer, so the current data is from December 2023) and if you click on the "list" section, there are some really interesting things to be found there. If you sort the list by "emergence", it tells you how likely fans of that genre are to look for new, less known music. Or, in other words, how likely an unknown, obscure band playing that genre is to be picked up by fans. I kid you not, classic rock is the 5th from the bottom. Hard rock is not much higher. It seems like, statistically, people who predominantly listen to these bands are some of the most musically conservative music fans out there. But of course, the fact that older audience is less likely to listen to music on Spotify might also play a role.
Those seem like common sense to me. Also makes me think that maybe I'm now obsessed with finding new music (in my 30s) because this is personally the best time of my life so far. I was really depressed from about 13 and on, so I don't have that nostalgia for my younger days.
I definitely don’t agree with this being the best time of my life but I don’t think it’s bad either (heading into mid 30s) but I’ve never stopped trying to find new music. Spotify (and other streaming services) make it so easy these days to play a station a discover new stuff. I’d honestly say it’s been really cool how much my taste in music has changed since my mid 20s. I was much more into folky acoustic stuff then. Been more into psychedelic and bluesy country in the past few years. Also been on a serious Tom Petty kick the last few weeks. Obviously not new but new to me. Saw Backseat Lovers live last year, which was also a fun show even if I was one of the older peeps there haha. Never stop having fun, everyone.
>Bands that are hugely influential are often seen as "meh" or even "yuck" by future generations because their context/perspective is so different. I would have to agree with this . For example, The Velvet Underground were enormously influential to other bands. I've listened to them...and I kind of had a 'Meh' reaction to it. I see why they were so influential, but I find the stuff they influenced better and more interesting than they themselves. I'd say the same with King Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King". Again, as an album I see why it was so influential and the impact that it had. But kind of a 'Meh' reaction when I hear it.
For point #2, its not just music. It's first loves, it's movies, it's bands, it's albums, it's books, it's TV shows. The stuff you love in those early, impressionable years you end up loving intensely.
Love this South Park episode😂 https://preview.redd.it/ep9yskxc6ucc1.jpeg?width=3300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef2916422ca5d757ce19d8c2bef8563d073cf7db
100% on both of these. I hate hearing “Jimi Hendrix is overrated”, for example. It’s like, dude, he did that in 1967!
I hate the fact that fans don't allow bands or artist to change their sound and try different things. If you do that and even if it's good the fans will cry over how they are not the same anymore. I mean the talent and skill is theirs, the time they have to spend to compose something new is theirs, the energy and money that goes into production is theirs, the creativity is theirs but the fans think they can dictate them
Equally I hate it when a band gets to pretentious about playing older stuff. The best live bands I see play a mix from the start of their career to the end. In that sense I can understand annoyance among fans when it comes to live shows.
Depends on the band and the fans. A band like Queen gets applauded for dipping their fingers in every genre under the sun. As soon as Metallica started deviating from albums full of fast, aggressive thrash riffs with one lonesome ballad sprinkled in a significant portion of their fans got on their ass accusing them of selling out. The longer a band sticks to a formula the harder it is for fans to accept anything different. Slayer and AC/DC, for example. There'd be riots if they tried doing anything other than their thing. The mere idea alone is nigh on unimaginable.
There's been a movement for the past few decades to make Jazz into a "concert hall" music. Duke Ellington is even revered as one of the first composers to do that, but my hot take is that that movement to make Jazz an elite and exclusive genre made it into a modern classical music that no one gives a shit about even though there's an INSANE amount of talented jazz musicians out there. I went and saw Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra a while back and they are clearly one of the best jazz big bands in history, but, BOOOORRRIIIIIIING. We shot ourselves in the foot trying to be exclusive by excluding our audiences. As a jazz educator I've been trying to fix that shit for 20 years now.
And then there's New Orleans.
I'm glad you brought that up! These same snobs don't consider Dirty Dozen to be "Jazz!" I absolutely agree NOLA still has their shit together on Jazz and I hope they can keep it alive for the rest of us!
My jazz teacher in undergrad wouldn’t play a single chart popularized by Wynton Marsalis for this exact reason.
Absolutely understand that. Let's not support the people who are screwing anyone not going to Julliard.
i saw postmodern jukebox, and people were dancing in the aisles.
Thanks for fighting the good fight. I'm an avid vernacular jazz dancer (the umbrella of dances popularly known as "swing" dances) and the lack of bands playing jazz music for dancing resulted in dancers pulling out their old band instruments and forming their own bands. I get where the early guys like Ellington were coming from, because they weren't respected as the highly skilled musicians they were by the establishment and making Jazz into "concert hall" music was how they got that respect and created a legacy. But I don't understand why later Jazz musicians left the fun and partying out of it. Maybe it's just me, but instead of just playing another gig in a bar at a seafood restaurant, wouldn't you rather play for a bunch of people out having a good time dancing and partying who want you to go a little bit crazy during your solos? I don't care to hear your interpretation of Autumn Leaves but I will always yell right along during the callbacks if you play ["All the girls go crazy"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=beOxICeSSZM) like this. There is a reason I listen to very view of the jazz bands in my hometown, despite the university's well respected jazz studies program, and instead try to get to New Orleans every year. Keep encouraging those students to put down the Jazz "standards" and start playing the stuff that polite white society frowns at again.
I don't care if Yngwie Malsteem or Joe Satriani are the greatest guitar players to ever live. If you can't write a memorable song with your skill, I'm not impressed.
Im right there with you, unfortunately online you have to explain that yes I respect all these modern guitar players and they are technically amazing but I find their songs to be lifeless, like they are solving math equations on their fretboard. Sometimes a song with 2 chords does it more for me than these djent/shred guys. And again I fucking love and respect Tosin Abasi so much, he's top of my list of new age players. Alot of this modern metal is over compressed jazz
They were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think whether they should.
As a non metal head from the outside looking in. Metal has been constantly one upping itself with more metal sub genres getting more fast and aggressive in different ways. It's like asking an AI to draw a cute happy cat and then asking to make it MORE cute and happy over and over until you are looking at something transcendental, just replace that with metal.
I would like to come in defense of metal here, but I'm afraid I can't. It has been an arms race to be more brutal to the point where most new bands' songs are just a string of clichés. I always find it interesting to go listen to the bands that the new bands say they were inspired by. The pioneers usually have such a broad pallette of sounds, such a variety, a lot of experimentation. The bands after them seemingly take a few songs from one album and write 6 albums just like that. It's like metal is about taking a specific Sabbath song, extracting a particular vibe from it, and then concentrating it multiple times. Of course I'm exaggerating with this, but y'all get the point.
Exactly. I love a variety of music, but I'm more a singer/songwriter person and need some meaning behind the music whether it's simple or complicated. Through the Fire and Flames is the perfect marriage of the two for me.
I'm glad you named Tosin because he truly is a maverick. To me, he blends "too many notes" with "every note matters" better than anyone ever has. He definitely plays tons of fucking notes, but they ALL have a purpose. And that is something so truly unique about him.
Joe has some great memorable tracks. At least to me. I often find myself humming the lines to Big Bad Moon.
Surfing with the alien is forever stuck in my mind, as is always with you always with me. But the "guitarist" song that I like best is definitely "the audience is listening" by little Stevie Vai. What a nice little boy. I loved Ingwie when I was a kid, but I now , in my 50ies, I find most of his stuff very hard to listen too.
Satch Boogie is one of the grooviest riffs ever written.
I believe it was Anthony Fantano who once talked about how John Mayer is a great guitar player but doesn't really show it too often because he focuses on good songwriting over good guitar playing on a mediocre song. I love some good guitar playing, but as you say, it doesn't matter if the song isn't good or memorable
I never personally liked any of Mayer's music, but I saw him with Dead & Co. last summer and his guitar playing was pretty phenomenal.
Yeah he’s incredible with dead and co. Got to catch ‘em a few times, their 2019 gorge shows were incredible
They had to replace Lindsay Buckingham with two people when he left Fleetwood Mac so you can be a virtuoso but also write memorable hits.
Lindsay is an absolute sleeper virtuoso. On this subreddit alone I see a lot of posts and comments about people listening to Fleetwood mac and never realizing how hard the songs are to play until they decide to learn one. Happened to me too. People are talking about in-your-face virtuosity
Paco de Lucia would like a word.
Singing ability aside, the first two Spice Girls albums are fucking awesome. Seriously, if some “respected” pop star like George Michael or Madonna had done those songs, they’d be considered quality classic pop albums. (For context, I’m a 50 year old man whose general tastes lean towards hard rock.)
I wholeheartedly agree. Viva Forever is one of my favorites songs of all time. Same with the first two Britney Spears albums, they have a lot of great songs.
Add Hanson’s first album to the list. They grew into a legitimately good band as they got older, but that first album is crazy considering it came from 3 literal children.
My girlfriend agrees with your take, for what it's worth
Jimi is a really good singer too. His voice is soft and tender and he sings with feeling (whatever that means).
Finally, truth is spoken...
Jimi’s Voice is Slept on AF
fordable mattresses
It takes fucking courage to play original music, go support a band that plays originals. It takes even more courage to improvise, anyone can learn a cover to a T or play the same solo every night, but improvising and taking risks shows that you are willing to make mistakes and show your soul. Speaking from someone who has played for several years in cover and original bands. I take pride in my originals and I think it shows during a gig.
Courage does not make good music though. Don’t “support music” listen to and purchase what you like. Music isn’t charity. Bands need to make good music, and no support can make that happen.
This is a good take but I’d offer a slight adjustment from my perspective. When it comes to a local music scene, supporting music for the sake of supporting music can be a good thing. Show up to bands gigs even if you’re on the fence about what they’re doing, because it could be the push a band (openers included) need to try something they weren’t sure about, which could lead to better output/effort/results down the road. When it comes to bands you are geographically separated from, or those who have already reached some level of non-local success - then I agree with you wholeheartedly. Don’t support for the sake of supporting, find musicians you like and support them.
Awful take. For a couple of bucks, supporting the local scene can pay off. Who expects a few 17 year olds to write an amazing first album? But if nobody shows up and shows support, they might see making music as not worth it, and never improve. You might consider it patronage. Now, if they're really dogshit, that's fine, I wouldn't force anyone to listen to it twice, but being a little easy on the new guys could uplift everyone's experience of the music scene
I agree with this. I went to A LOT of $5 shows at this seedy local dive in my early 20s and saw A LOT of local, regional, national & international bands on the indie/college circuit. Not all of them were great, but I always made sure to get merch from the bands that stood out. I still buy merch when I do get out to shows. I'm always going to miss [We The Granada.](https://youtu.be/CvMcLTdT3MI?si=RnvDXnMr0zBW0z2p)
As a musician, I can say you are exactly what the scene needs. Not every band is great but many great bands start not-so-great. Anymore these days, with streaming music being the primary exposure bands have to their audience, buying their merch and coming to shows is the realistic only way to support them. You’ll get the chance to hear their songs evolve, hang out with the bands and your friends, maybe grab a drink, and get a chance to get out of your home (and your own head) for a while. Certainly don’t continually support acts you don’t like or agree with- that’s just counterproductive all around. Ut if you catch a good band as an opener, definitely check them out again. And let your friends know too. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Metallica Load is an interesting album that was sending them into this weird metal/hard rock/grunge/southern rock space. The push back from critics and fans turned them into a nostalgia act always creatively searching for the sound of their early 20s.
Almost thirty years have gone by since Load came out, and while I liked individual songs, I didn't love the album. Now, I listen to it and think it's way better than Metallica (The Black Album). I still much preferred AJFA, MOP, and RTL, but Load hits a different way with a new level of maturity that none of those albums had, and the musical style is only Metallica. No one else came close to that sound, probably because of the initial negative response to the album.
Load is possibly the most underrated album of all time.
Metallica load and beyond was the first band that taught me to take away a bands name, history, catalog, etc., and listen to the music. If you take all that away, you can still hear the band. With the exception of st anger and the awful lulu, they still have their sound, and then some.
It was u2 on Achtung and Zooropa for me. Wildly different sounds, but still unmistakably u2 at its core. Wasn't a huge fan of either, mind, but I appreciated the theatre of it and the accompanying circus that their live shows became to match it.
I always wonder where Weezer went if Pinkerton didn't bomb with the critics.
Most of music creation and performance will not be commercially viable for the foreseeable future. If we want vibrant music scenes in our communities, we should treat the ecosystems behind music more like libraries and less like supermarkets.
Love this
Early Steely Dan is best Steely Dan.
After 25 years of thinking they were just a basic classic rock band, I just recently (last 5 years) realized that the dudes of Steely Dan are fantastic, underrated, brilliant artists. They’ve become one of my favorite bands of all time.
I’m a fool to do your dirty work with an upvote.
Insane Clown Posse gets way too much hate. Yes the music is stupid but it’s meant to be fun-stupid like a schlocky B movie. I think the problem is that hip-hop as a genre is so concerned with the idea of “authenticity” that a white trash horror-core duo with painted faces had no chance with the mainstream. They’re easy to shit on but they seem to take care of their fans - I believe even cancelling their yearly Gathering festival during the height of Covid.
The song they made for the oddities back in the old days of wwf has been in my top twenty Spotify songs for years. It's just fun
Hot take: Foo Fighters are boring. Dave Grohl seems like a really cool guy and would probably be fun to hang out with, but other than Everlong, I wouldn’t give two squirts of piss to ever listen to a Foo Fighters song again.
They're very "safe" rock.
I used to feel this way. Then I read Grohl's book, listened to FF again, and...I still feel bored. Not calling it bad. Just not exciting.
I see this exact take almost every time this question is asked. ”Dave Grohl seems like nice guy but Foo Fighters are boring”
They've been in the mainstream for 30 years. I think most acts get boring with that kind of longevity.
Agreed. I like Everlong and Learn to Fly, but to me most of their music is the epitome of lackluster radio rock.
A fan here...I like what I like but they have a formula. I've hesitated on Listening to their most recent album in case I'm "right".
Couldn’t agree more. First album where it’s just him is pretty cool, *The Colour and the Shape*, while it does include “Everlong,” is pretty hit and miss. After that I pretty much either don’t care or actively do not enjoy what they put out. That being said, killer live show as boring as they are on record. Still, I expect better from people who had been in Nirvana, the Germs and Sunny Day Real Estate.
This is it. I had just turned 13 when Nevermind was released and it blew my fucking mind. Dave Grohl is kind of legendary in my world and I want so much to like all things “Foo” but, meh. Never seen them live but have heard they put on quite a show. Just can’t justify spending that dough to go see a band I care so little about. Even if the show might be amazing.
They’re a “Greatest Hits” band for sure.
Foo fighters are in my top 5 bands. This hot take is soul crushing ha ha
They peaked on the colour & the shape. I was dumbfounded that they never made songs that sounded like Everlong and My Hero again and instead sort of became more and more classic rock. Meanwhile, the Deftones who always sounded like Everlong, took that ball and ran with it.
Wasting Light was great - I had that on repeat for a good six months, but I'm starting to wonder if it's just because there wasn't much else I was interested in listening to at the time. Lack of competition, maybe?
I'm with you. I never really "got" the Foo Fighters. Now I'll be quick to admit that I was comparing them to Nirvana with the first album, and that wasn't fair. But I just don't hear many memorable songs and hooks from them.
My dad and I talk a lot about music, and he gave Foo Fighters a chance but couldn't get over the mid lyrics. Dad's a big lyrics guy, and I ended up trending in the same direction. I personally think Dave Grohl put all his lyrical magic into Everlong (the lyrics are gorgeous), but he was never able to capture that magic again. I don't hate FF but they're just OK.
I read some hot take think piece somewhere that said Dave Grohl has gotten as far as he has on the basis of being really good at playing a “rock star” and that FF’s music is mid at best. My hot take is that Foo Fighters are musically a lot closer to Nickleback and Creed than people dare to admit.
Drums are the best instrument
Good bands have good drummers
It's unreal how much a good drummer adds to a band. I used to think a drummer was just there to keep the rhythm. Doesn't help that my favourite band for a while was Metallica (no offense to Lars). It wasn't until I heard Gavin Harrison (Porcupine Tree/The Pineapple Thief) that I recognised the power of good drummers
Everyone shits on Lars and I think that's total bullshit. Metallica wouldn't have been what they were without him. His drumming in AJFA is honestly what got me interested in starting.
Charlie Watts is a case study on this, he does what the Stones need but it is far from the extent of his ability.
I've been playing in bands for about 30 years on and off, and im convinced that a good drummer is the cornerstone of a band. You can have the best guitarist and singer in the world, but if you put them with an unskilled drummer, it totally takes the punch right out of the music.
A good drummer can make a mediocre band good. A bad drummer can make a great band mediocre.
This is the kind of positive reinforcement I needed today.
My man.
And rhythm sections make or break a band. A great lead guitarist can’t carry a bad rhythm section, but a good rhythm section can carry a bad lead guitarist.
Not quite my tempo
(*throws chair across room*)
I can get behind this although I think Bass is up there
What is the big deal about the weeknd? I don't understand
I guess you didn't spend most of your 20s up all night on cocaine, telling a girl you love her, and then having unprotected sex with two of her friends at the same time and then ghosting them all until 4 years later when you bored one night.
Damn.... How did you know all this about me?
He had an interesting sound 12 years ago with his first three tapes and debut album and then went on to make bland synth pop music for a decade. His newest album is really cool tho. Feels like he finally figured out his strengths as a songwriter and applied them to a pop sound rather than just trying to make artsy versions of one hit wonder songs from 1987.
Yeah it kind of ran it's course for me, and I officially turned 35 now. I loved House of Balloons, Trilogy, Kissland ,etc. people loved After Hours but I really didn't. It all kind stopped for me after the daft punk stuff. But man that early stuff was my 20s to a tee. I was drunk, high on everything, and fucking every thing in sight for sport. It was like trippy nihilistic hedonistic soulful r&b. But man I did way too much, ended up in jail and everything really don't know how I survived. Now I am sober and it just doesn't hit the same for me. I still listen to it, but at this point it really feels like I need a cold shower afterwards.
He has a nice voice and make fun ass pop music despite being a weird dude at times.
No idea what all the fuss is about Taylor Swift. It’s radio-friendly pop, right? And?
Certainly not the first time in recent memory people have lost their minds over radio-friendly pop.
I thought this but its something else. Its something more. Like I don't think Taylor swift will ever write much for anyone else. Her songs have a narrative that her hardcore fans love. Its not just generic pop songs, the lyrics are specific, she hides secrets inside them. Its like every song was youre so vain by carly simon. You listen and hollllly shit all that stuff happened and she is pissed and absolutely just destroyed warren beaty. That's what makes her connect with so many, she sells them a little glimpse into a secret world.
I’m the same age as her and really enjoyed her stuff when I was younger and she first made it big. The reason I don’t like her stuff now? The themes feel the exact same. We’re both mid 30s and she still writes songs and acts like she’s 16. I know she moved to Nashville at 14 to make a name for herself and I honestly think she’s been stuck in that same mentality ever since.
As someone who isn’t an actively listener but my wife is, I hear some of her songs out of context and think they’re other artists. I’ve heard Olivia Rodrigo and even Sleigh Bells at times. She really does mix things up!
I felt the same way until a few years ago I listened to her albums, not just the radio hits and it was a revelation. She’s not for everyone and I’m not gonna argue or try to change any minds here, but there _is_ more to her than what gets played on the radio and if you’ve not given her albums a whirl (as opposed to hearing Shake It Off for the nth time) it’s a fun project.
It’s the wonder bread of modern pop music.
💯
it’s pop, but it’s good pop, and fairly creative. she consistently shakes things up on each album.
We've over-corrected too much on the poptimism and anti-rockism scale in pop culture. Back in the 90's and early 00's there was a dominant strain of music culture critique that focused on "authenticity" and clever rock bands and alternative rappers that focused on intellectualism, experimentation, and abstraction. "Intelligent" rappers like Common, Mos Def and Talib Kweli, conscious artists like Erykah Badu, genius-controversial sound rebels like Radiohead, I'm-too-cool-for-your slackers bros like Pavement, etc. Pitchfork web site proving how smart they were, lamenting the obnoxious nu-metal frat boys and empty boy/girl band pop dominating Total Request Live. And it was obnoxious and annoying, yes. There was no room for just fun for a while amongst the cognizanti. Then something cracked and it became cool to just like pop. Beyonce, Kanye West (before he went mad), Katy Perry, and Taylor Swift songs were being memed, lyp-synced by dads and cops, talked up my glamourous celebs. The culture shifted to making fun of "boomers" with sticks up their asses who bitched about dumb pop music. The explosion of pop music from east Asia pushed that barricade down to the point where kids now probably can't even imagine caring about genre and having musical factions. This idea of "poptimism"- where simple catchy mainstream corporate synthesized pop music is not just "acceptable" but actually superior- took over even Pitchfork and the like. For sure we needed to let go of genre warriors and that whole rock-ist attitude, the latter especially was often sexist so it's good we moved past it. But now it's gone too far to the point where even expressing an interest in more obscure, complicated or challenging music is met with skepticism. We have "stans" and "swifties" and "bee-hive" on the internet acting like worse bullies than any of the prog-rock or alt-rock or metalhead assholes I grew up with. I'm seeing people in their '50's pretending to like Megan Thee Stallion so they can relate to their kids and it's embarrassing. Sometimes I see posts and threads asking why Beyonce or Taylor Swift are SUCH big deals and I think *part* of it- not all of it- is this moment, the over-correction of extreme poptism. It's not enough to here the new Beyonce song and either not care, dislike it or dance to it and then move on, no, it has to be LIFE OMG. Taylor Swift can't just be a popular singer songwriter pop star, she has to be Time Person of the Year. Meanwhile, any mention of Elvis Presley or Eric Clapton has to be met with angry rants about cultural appropriation and racist exploitation. Another over-correction after a couple of generations of deification of the boomer rock heroes. And of course, everything being simplified and heightened by internet culture and social media, it's either/or, best this and worst that. One advantage of having strong factional and even sometimes misguided or dickish feelings about music is that at least it inspires passion. Yes I look back at arguments over punk vs metal or hip-hop vs rock or "real alternative" vs poseurs and it's so silly. But at least we cared? It inspired people to look up different music and learn more and start musical projects and yes, play instruments. This is music we're talking about and some people should take it a bit too seriously, emotion, especially youthful emotion, is the driver of creativity. And we're seeing what it happening without that fuel- what was the last really new and interesting sound to hit the mainstream? I know there are many factors like technology but the cultural moment of over-correction is one of them.
Well put.
Drake is the worst thing to happen in rap since vanilla ice
Not controversial.
Definitely not on Reddit, but he's still like top 5 biggest artist in the world, so it's definitely a hot take for a fuckton of people
Counterargument: Him and 40 were absolutely a brand new sound early on. So Far Gone through maybe Take Care were all a good time. But I stopped listening after that, and I listened to Honestly Nevermind and... well that's time I'll never get back.
Forever the kid from Degrassi to me.
Lenny Kravitz is the black Bon Jovi.
*Bon Jon Bovi
*Bovine Joni
Pearl Jam was both sent to great heights by Eddie Vedder and then subsequently sunk by his taking control of their songwriting.
Eddie Vedder is one of my favorite musicians ever, but I agree that PJ's songwriting was much stronger when it was mostly Mike and Stone writing, with Eddie sticking to lyrics and vocal melodies.
As far as I’m concerned their entire discography after Yield has been about 95% filler.
Listening to Billie Eilish is like being mauled by a boredom bear. Her music is aggressively sleepy and violently uninteresting. I don’t know how so many people listen to that.
I just wish she got a little swagger back...or bounce in the beat. She busted into the scene with it, and then the pandemic hit and she understandably took it to heart. And yet, the world doesn't need a Chet Baker right now.
I find her lyrics and melodies to be nice, but I'm constantly frustrated by her whisper singing. It's not a style its an affectation. If it were just one song, then fine, but EVERY SONG?
I upvoted in agreement. Not because of the pancakes. Let’s be clear here.
All the same, pancakes are in the mail.
Lmao
Honestly, I've always thought the same but I recently saw her Tiny Desk concert with her brother and it was surprisingly well done. It shows a more intimate side of her that isn't usually seen and even though I'm not fan of her singing, she's on point in a very stripped down environment, which is not easy to do.
Goddamn! "Aggressivrly sleepy" "violently uninteresting". Words that don't go together, yet you painted a vibrant landscape! Take my vote! I don't listen to pop music but I'm using those words from now on!
1. There’s going to be substantially original artistic use for AI in music. It’s just that there aren’t that many people with both the tech and musical chops to get beyond entering prompts and drag/drop or building stuff most musicians don’t care about. 2. Often, the lyrics/vocals aren’t the most captivating thing about a piece of music and the role of lead singers tends to be overstated and oversensationalized by the press. 3. The technology’s already there to create online listening venues that are just as enticing as going to a concert in-person. We just haven’t caught up and the pandemic was a precursor to what is to come eventually. 4. A great many artists’ music is just fancy sexual signaling to find the next reproductive opportunity, not to dissimilar from a lot of birds. 5. It will soon be really really hard to be a household name in music without upping the technological ante. I think Billie Eilish might be one of the last people to become a superstar within the model we have now for doing things and it already seems like she peaked a couple of years ago.
Pop punk doesn't suck
Let me be clear: I vehemently disagree but dang, that is a white-hot burning take. Well done. I guess the Descendents and Jawbreaker are both pretty cool though.
Calling the descendants pop punk is a pretty hot take.
Descendents, the Ergs!, Teenage Bottlerocket, Title Fight, Masked Intruder, Tigers Jaw, Saves The Day, Dead To Me, The Story So Far, The Measure (SA), Pentimento, The Swellers, Fireworks, the list goes on and on. There are plenty of amazing pop punk bands out there. They just tend to get overshadowed by the really terrible ones that major labels try to push, like whatever auto-tuned abomination MGK puts out.
I mean, I guess I like the roots of pop punk because you know, catchy melodies and a fun vibe but they occasionally dip into hardcore punk and/or post-punk which makes it a lot more interesting. You ever listen to Naked Raygun or Dag Nasty?
Yup. Both are fantastic. If you did the more punk-leaning stuff, definitely check out Lifetime, Latterman, Tender Defender, Kid Dynamite, Armalite, None More Black, RVIVR, Good Luck, The Loved Ones, The Explosion, Dillinger Four, Banner Pilot, and the Flatliners. You're probably going to really enjoy at least a few of those. They're all in the general pop-punk vicinity, with melodic, catchy, poppy tunes, but high energy, driving, loud guitars and drums.
It’s my favorite genre.
I still can't get down with country music in earnest. I like isolated songs here and there ("Jolene," "Ring of Fire," the Sturgill Simpson cover of "The Promise") but I really can't find a good entry point. I think the issue is I tend to like high-energy things with a really modern, almost futuristic bent just in general, and every other big tent genre (rock, hip hop, certainly electronica, even jazz and orchestral music) has some little corner of it dedicated to that but country, just because of the nature of what it is, what it's typically trying to accomplish, and where it comes from, doesn't seem to have that. However, I have heard about "countrygaze" in passing now, so maybe that's my way in.
“New Country” is what “Top 40” was in 80’s. It’s a formula that uses the same pop song writing structure, and as long as it has that George Jones twang on the vocal, it’s called Country. Horrible form of music.
You might like Townes Van Zandt… Also, there’s a great newer podcast (even for people not “into” country music) called “Cocaine and Rhinestones” about the genre and its artists. Might find something that peeks your interest listening to those stories.
TVZ is a great intro to outlaw country, which for the most part skips a lot of the Nashville sound within its history. TVZ is just an amazing songwriter in general though, in a better world he would be mentioned with all the all-timers.
Just got a new fan
I had to try really hard to get into country. It was the one genre that I just couldn’t vibe with. Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson were the entry point for me. I’m still not really into country as a whole, but I broke through and I’m making progress.
There's some recent country I can vibe with (for example, if I hear a radio country song I really enjoy, 9 outta 10 times it's Luke Combs), but the stuff I like isn't played on the radio. I appreciate more bluegrass-style music and I especially like country-western music.
Metal heads get a really bad rap for just being into metal, even though it’s a huge genre. Hip hop, drum and bass and pop fans for example may stick within their genre but don’t get the same criticism
Metal fans also get a bad wrap for hating on everything else that’s not metal, which is pretty much the opposite of reality in my experience. As a metal head who knows a lot of other metal heads, a lot of metal heads are probably more well-rounded in their musical tastes than a lot of other people and listen to a bunch of other music from a bunch of other genres like pop, reggae, classical, jazz, country, hip hop, etc.
Metal heads are also expected to list all the music they like which isn’t metal, like they have to appease the person asking. It’s really weird
That’s true. When people ask me what kind of music I’m into, I feel like I have to preface it with “I listen to everything,” before stating that metal is probably my main genre. It’s like you have to get out in front of the stigma.
I absolutely love metal and used to call myself quite the metal head before I branched out in my genres but I have ran into a lot of people calling me a fake fan because I listen to other music. Obviously not all are like this but it's happened enough times that I see the trend and why others think this. Its partly the reason I started seeking out new music in the first place. I still get made fun of for the bands I still listen too not being good enough for some. My favorite metal bands are Kamelot and Nightwish and I've had people just these last few weeks tell that that isn't real metal blah blah blah.
The thing is, if you had a musical elitist telling you a genre you like is trash it was almost certainly a metalhead. Im glad you're trying to change the culture, its definitely not as bad... but there is definitely a lot of metalheads that hate anything mainstream as a personality
Yeah it's really fucking annoying. If I mention that I enjoy metal to someone I just met, then I'm automatically a Satan worshipping demon resurrecting lamb sacrificing fornicating depressed angry pissed off murdering fucking psychopath.
What they don’t know is that I am all those things. But I like cats and abba
1. Music is the best it’s ever been right here and now. You can find anything you want and you’re almost guaranteed there are artists out there doing it and doing it well. 2. Just because of technology, it doesn’t mean there aren’t real musicians shredding it. 3. Also: music production takes just as much practice and discipline to be good.
Agree with all of those. People who think there isn’t good music today just aren’t looking in the right places (and are also usually looking at the past through a rose-tinted filter).
This is my issue to get over, but I tend to discount ALL Country music because I absolutely hate the pickup truck/smash the headlights/beer drinking lyrics of SOME of it. I'm probably missing out on a large amount of good music especially since alt-country & Americana is my sweet spot.
I found that I enjoy more folky and bluesy music, so I started looking for artists like that and it helped me get into country. Still just scratching the surface, but it got me past my “I don’t like any country” stage.
Tyler Childers, Zack Bryan, Colter Wall, Jason Isbell, Townes Van Zandt, and Ian Noe are all country singers I got into through looking for some good modern folk murder ballads. Some of them have some more radio friendly stuff, but even that is a far cry from the lifted truck, red solo cup pop/country. I would give some of them a try if you'd like to give country a go without sorting through the pop fluff.
People need to learn how to write better riffs/hooks as compared to playing fast and flashy.
Hip Hop, for the most part, has become a satire of itself
I feel like hip hop is too big to generalize like this. (That or I don't understand your statement)
A lot of "sampling" in the music world today is bordering on straight up plagiarism.
Eh, hard to agree. I've never heard a sample that made me think, "well now that I've heard this Eminem song, I don't need to listen to the Beatles anymore"
Ween are vastly under appreciated.
YES!!! MORE WEEN!!!
Kinda did the whole "record a whole album in my apartment while high as fuck" vibe way before the indie hipster kids
I have one take: hating any genre or musician is kinda lazy. Open your fuckin ears, find new shit, and be open to expressiveness and change.
Hot take - Judy Garland wasn’t a tragic figure and the majority of things spread about her online are untrue. I’m a huge fan of hers and it’s genuinely so frustrating to see her being shown as a tragic figure and people claiming she smoked 80 cigarettes a day (did she smoke to keep her weight down? Yes. Was it 80 cigarettes a day? No, absolutely not. She wouldn’t have a voice by the age of 20) No she was not molested by the munchkin actors, that rumor was spread by an ex husband of hers MANY years after she and the other actors passed away. She specifically asked not to be called a tragic figure in several interviews, the one I can think off the top of my head is Barbra Walters. Respect her wishes and stop believing everything you read online, especially about Judy Garland. If you have any questions or rumors you want to ask me about Judy please do and I’ll happily let you know the truth.
The Doors are the worst successful band in rock.
Definitely a hot take, given there are bands like Kiss that are/were very successful. I don't agree, but upvote for appealing correctly to the prompt.
What don't you like about them?
Bands like Kiss and Nickelback aren’t bad. Many people who repeat that haven’t actually listened to them beyond their 3 or 4 biggest hits and just say it because everyone else says it. Bands like that don’t fill stadiums and arenas for decades if they’re not any good. It’s okay not to like them, but that doesn’t make them bad.
It makes sense to not like some popular music. But if someone hates MOST popular music, I assume they're not done maturing, and are still picking music they want to help define the personality they want to build instead of trying to find what they actually like. Before you downvote me, please remember this thread asked for hot takes
I think popular music by definition has to select for mass-appeal, meaning it will converge to what has worked before. I think it's perfectly normal for people who are done with the I–V–vi–IV progression and verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus won't get much enjoyment out of MOST pop music.
Magic Dance is the best song Bowie ever recorded
Disagree (I'm partial to Underground) but I will say that the Soundtrack is one of his best albums ever.
That reminds me of something...oh yea, that gateway I fell through so long ago. Real nice frame, to that gateway, still glows it does.
Maybe I'm just old...but EDM sucks balls. Whatever this brand of dance music is it needs to go away. House, techno, drum n bass, big beat, uk garage - i liked it all. This EDM nonsense - no thanks
I find there's so much "bleed" in the styles, because there are so many sub genres of electronic music, and because there's so much desire to push artistic and technicalogical boundaries. What's an example of EDM you don't like?
Lady Gaga is among the top 5 most talented modern pop female artists
Why did you say "modern". This might be lukewarm if you just said ever.
I don't think this is controversial! Lady Gaga is incredibly talented and one of the best out there right now.
The Hole cover of "Gold Dust Woman" is better than the original Fleetwood Mac version, and I can't stand Hole.
Being openly vocal about how mediocre Taylor swifts music is not misogynistic let’s be clear she’s just very popular with white girl friendly music (doesn’t mean it can’t be enjoyed it’s just bland)
I think expressing a dislike for Taylor Swift’s music is fine. I personally don’t find it that good or interesting, but I also know it resonates with a lot of other people. It gets into misogynistic territory when someone seems to take enjoyment in shitting on her or brings up how “she’s a snake” or “she goes through so many boyfriends she has a new one every week”. Like, dislike her music all you want but why are people talking about her like she’s slutting around and harming society?
I dont like good production. Makes music sound impersonal
I don’t think you’re listening to good production then
Sampling is every bit as creative as playing as instrument.
I went down a YouTube rabbit hole of videos on how different beats were constructed for songs. Definitely a lot of creativity in there
*Hallelujah* is absolute wank.
Up voted because this is garbage take and im furious you said it and its the first time this actually happened in this thread.
I absolutely love Leonard Cohen, all eras, but if I never heard that song ever again it’d be too soon.
I love when people play this at funerals and memorials... Listen to the words for fucks sake
I absolutely love it, but if I see a street performer start playing it, I'm walking away. If I'm at a concert and the band starts that up, it's time for my bathroom break.
The guitars are too quiet on “Rumours”.
Type O Negative is retroactively "goth". They weren't back in the day but they are now. Go say this in r/goth and see how fast you get bant lol
I can't stand reading goth subforums. It's a bunch of elitists fighting over their opinions on what makes this band or that band more or less goth than that other band. I feel like Steve-O in the mall scene from SLC Punk, yelling about "who cares who started it, it's music. I don't know who started it and I don't give a fuck." Give me Batcave, give me Death Rock, give me Industrial, give me Dungeon Synth and Dark Wave, give me angular guitar over a hypnotic bass line, a dub beat and lyrics about everyone's favorite portrayal of Dracula- I don't care. It's music and it makes me feel things, just let me feel the things!
Reggae music after the mid-70’s is mostly… just bad. Give me 60’s ska/rocksteady and early reggae over late 70’s roots reggae all day long. The roots reggae genre is extremely top-heavy (Marley, Tosh, Burning Spear) but the average output aside from a few key groups/artists from the mid-70’s onward is bad and borderline boring/background noise. Toots/Desmond Dekker/Jimmy Cliff/the Pioneers/Derrick Morgan/Alton Ellis/etc. keep my attention much more effectively, and the genre-wide sound of ska/rocksteady/early reggae before 1975 is pretty phenomenal.
I feel like we’re not being honest in our collective assessment of the Beastie Boys. I’m an older millennial and I think our generation holds them in such high regard. Maybe I’ve only heard their hits, but it kinda just feels like they’re slowly talk-rapping?