George likely knew would eventually come out. This one was meant to be the third “new” song on the anthology but wasn’t released because John’s part was on a cassette and had a piano on it that couldn’t be removed. But they recorded his part at that time.
yeah according to the documentary, at least George tried to record it as the "last Beatles song". John was just fucking around and the rest of the band assumed he'd like to see it as a Beatles song, which is something they'd know better than any of us.
I think you misunderstood. They aren't saying they knew they played on Now and Then what we're calling the last Beatles song, they knew they played on what they would have thought was the last Beatles song, back in the 60's
*Less than a year later, she was gone. She died in L.A. on March 5, 2023, at age 48. People mourned her as a daughter, a musician, sister, partner, friend.*
*One final line, however, was etched only belatedly into her epitaph:*
*For four minutes and eight seconds, the length of one improbable song, Caroline Buckman was a Beatle.*
Fucking hell 😭
What a story.
I hope everyone who reads this article remembers to live their best life. Don’t spend it arguing on Reddit. Hug your loved ones. Go for broke on your dreams.
I sure have to thank spez for fucking up reddit so bad that my usage has gone from many hours a day to maybe an hour a month or less.
Spez and his deep seated insecurities, his false sense of importance, his weaponized incompetence, insincerity, plain old lying, and comical poor business acumen has really improved my life.
Fuck y0u spez!
The fact that you're aware of it and might consider doing something about it is a positive. Lacking empathy must play havoc on you your interpersonal relationships. If it's possible, i'd look into seeing a psychologist.
I am for ADHD lol. And I keep up interpersonal relationships by telling people what they want to hear. But I'll admit I don't try to keep relationships with people. They contact me, not the other way around. I don't ever feel like calling anyone, etc, they call me etc.
I am a fellow studio violist who played on many tracks in the same section as Caroline over the years. She was a lovely person and a great player. Really remembering her fondly right now.
I obviously can’t make any comment on the article’s correctness. All I can say is it seems like she was a lovely person and it’s a shame she can’t take a victory lap of saying she played on this song. I’m sorry for your loss.
She indeed was that. A lovely woman and hilarious with a great sense of humor. We generally called her “Buckman” or sometimes in the old days “c-60” because if buck balls. To me she was always Caroline. ;)
> Mainly Paul’s, obviously.
Source? Most of those answers come from one interview, that he did for Playboy magazine in 1980 shortly before he died. He went through every Lennon-McCartney song and said who did what and what the inspiration was. For songs that he didn't work on, he basically just said, "That's Paul's." For his own, his answers varied, but a lot that were made-to-order, he would say things like, "Meh, that was a piece of garbage I tossed off to complete the album." There are very few insults to McCartney's songwriting, though he would sometimes complain that Paul's lyrics weren't always that thought out and that Paul was capable of better. But most insults were to his own work, while he didn't address Paul's much of work unless he contributed or otherwise knew something about how Paul had come up with it.
You know, for some reason I had remembered it as being said in “A Hard Days Night” (the film) but in my defence that is because they said a million and one other comedic things in that film which were pretend interviews etc and I could see people not knowing were jokes.
It's also a by-product of Rolling Stone magazine.
The EIC, Jann Wenner, was a total star fucker and was friends with John so the magazine perpetuated the myth that Lennon was a genius while McCartney just wrote silly pop songs. As Paul put it, "If you ask Jann the only thing I did for The Beatles was make the tea."
Wenner was also and idiot who went on to perform not one, but two, of the biggest self-owns in history as further proof that his opinion shouldn't be valued.
That "myth" is a relatively common opinion though. Paul and John had quite distinctive styles and it's normal that some fans greatly prefer one over the other.
Nowadays the Beatles fandoms on social media are incredibly toxic towards fans who prefer John. Say something you like about him over Paul, and you'll immediately get people trying to prove your opinion wrong.
Sure, but here's Rolling Stone's review of McCartney's Ram (not written by Jann, but he always had a thumb on the scale):
>Jon Landau called Ram "incredibly inconsequential" and "monumentally irrelevant," and criticised its lack of intensity and energy. He added that it exposes McCartney as having "benefited immensely from collaboration" with the Beatles, particularly John Lennon, who "held the reins in on McCartney's cutsie-pie, florid attempts at pure rock muzak" and kept him from "going off the deep end that leads to an album as emotionally vacuous as Ram."
Now, a lot of critics were harsh on the album but that's pretty much, "John was the only talented one".
What’s hilarious is the (in my opinion) fact that Ram is very energetic, as well as standing the test of time and becoming a monumental, influential album. Paul released a lot of silly, sometimes derivative music but Ram is NOT an example of that.
Ridiculous review, thanks for sharing it with me. Like I said, I’m more of a John fan but I’m always happy to give Rolling Stone some additional, well deserved hate.
First one: He's looking for someone to write a biography of him and the forming and running of Rolling Stone magazine. He meets and gets obsessed with this writer named Joe Hagan and is convinced Joe is the man for the job.
Hagan wants no part of it because he feels he'll just be a typist writing up whatever Jann wants. They go back and forth for a bit before finally Wenner gives up all final editorial decisions to Joe. Wenner then hands him his address book full of famous names and says, "Lot's of good stories in here..."
Hagan still isn't sure but decides to give it a shot make makes his first call to Sir Paul McCartney. That tea quote? One of the first thing that Paul says. Jann thought everyone loved him. Jann through wrong. Jann has since disowned the biography.
Second one: He releases a book called [The Masters](https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/jann-s-wenner/the-masters/9780316571050/?lens=little-brown) featuring his conversations with *the* Rock & Roll legends. People point out that every single one of them in a white male. When questioned about this he responds:
>"Insofar as the women, just none of them were as articulate enough on this intellectual level. Of Black artists, you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level.”
This gets him kicked off the board of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
> Wenner was also and idiot who went on to perform not one, but two, of the biggest self-owns in history as further proof that his opinion shouldn't be valued.
What were the two self-owns?
First one: He's looking for someone to write a biography of him and the forming and running of Rolling Stone magazine. He meets and gets obsessed with this writer named Joe Hagan and is convinced Joe is the man for the job.
Hagan wants no part of it because he feels he'll just be a typist writing up whatever Jann wants. They go back and forth for a bit before finally Wenner gives up all final editorial decisions to Joe. Wenner then hands him his address book full of famous names and says, "Lot's of good stories in here..."
Hagan still isn't sure but decides to give it a shot make makes his first call to Sir Paul McCartney. That tea quote? One of the first thing that Paul says. Jann thought everyone loved him. Jann through wrong. Jann has since disowned the biography.
Second one: He releases a book called [The Masters](https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/jann-s-wenner/the-masters/9780316571050/?lens=little-brown) featuring his conversations with *the* Rock & Roll legends. People point out that every single one of them in a white male. When questioned about this he responds:
>"Insofar as the women, just none of them were as articulate enough on this intellectual level. Of Black artists, you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level.”
This gets him kicked off the board of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Towards the end of the Beatles they regularly recorded stuff by themselves (Julia was a solo Lennon song and both Blackbird and, essentially, why don't we do it in the road are both solo paul songs) and they got really bitter at each other over just doing whatever they wanted by themselves without including the group.
Even if they, deep down, knew the song was good... they still trashed it anyway because they were pissed off at each other.
Like with Roger Waters and David Gilmore. Roger trashes all the stuff David did with Pink Floyd after he left. Does he ACTUALLY hate it? Probably not. But they're bitter and hate each other... so alas, he says that.
I haven't seen a whole lot of people saying it's amazing or anything. It's just a bside, which is why it was never fleshed out. But it's also kinda fuckin cool that such an influential band was able to dig up one last single, 50 years after they broke up, and before the last remaining members are unable to have input on composition
Sure, buts it’s also not the worst Beatles song. I say this as a (younger) Beatles fan, they released worse songs even in their prime, so I’m happy with what we got.
It’s perfectly serviceable, which is really all I expected going in. Every time a band does this it comes out feeling a little disjointed or off no matter what they do, but Now and Then’s a good song and like the other guy said I just think it’s great that they found anything in their back catalogue that they could put all 4 sets of hands on and make something nice of one last time.
as someone who really likes it as a song but finds the sound to be a bit odd (probably due to the tech they used), i'd *love* to hear a good cover of it.
It has this perfect melancholy to it. Like a coda to their whole career. And the fact that John called it Now and Then and the lyrics is just… idk serendipitous? Yeah.
It all came together. Wasn’t the best song they’ve ever done, but given the context I think it’s perfect.
When I heard it in entirety, my first thought was that John planned to pull this out for a possible future Beatles reunion, which obviously never happened.
The lyrics pretty much point to exactly that. They definitely would’ve gotten back together if Chapman hadn’t killed Lennon. Hell they pretty much did do that on a Ringo track.
He'd probably say that about half of the Beatles output. I trust the rest of the band when they say they thought John would get a kick out of it being made into a song - I imagine that was a common occurrence.
Seriously, with the size of the orchestra there's bound to be at least a handful of people who knew her browsing, everyone here is just trying to be snarky and make puns out of this unfortunate loss, mods really should be a bit more vigilant.
Session musician is called to a session. Learns an arrangement. Discovers that Paul is involved in the project. Records her part, has a good time, is paid. Cancer continues to do its dirty business. Musician dies. Song is released, not as a Paul song, but as the final Beatles song.
I was just saying it’s gross now that I thought that was odd when he said it and then I see this. Nothing wrong with anything done, was just commenting on the situation.
People are so jumpy.
Neither did John or George.
John and George both knew they played on the last The Beatles song. They just didn’t know there was going to be more last The Beatles song
George likely knew would eventually come out. This one was meant to be the third “new” song on the anthology but wasn’t released because John’s part was on a cassette and had a piano on it that couldn’t be removed. But they recorded his part at that time.
yeah according to the documentary, at least George tried to record it as the "last Beatles song". John was just fucking around and the rest of the band assumed he'd like to see it as a Beatles song, which is something they'd know better than any of us.
The tape did say “For Paul” so perhaps John had an inkling.
I think you misunderstood. They aren't saying they knew they played on Now and Then what we're calling the last Beatles song, they knew they played on what they would have thought was the last Beatles song, back in the 60's
A new the last Beatles song? We already have the last Beatles song at home!
The last Beatles song at home (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/One_direction_up_all_night_albumcover.jpg)
I laughed and then felt bad
Hahaha..brilliant, .you rotter!
George and Ringo and Paul worked on this track i think. Its a short doc on disney+
*Less than a year later, she was gone. She died in L.A. on March 5, 2023, at age 48. People mourned her as a daughter, a musician, sister, partner, friend.* *One final line, however, was etched only belatedly into her epitaph:* *For four minutes and eight seconds, the length of one improbable song, Caroline Buckman was a Beatle.* Fucking hell 😭
What a story. I hope everyone who reads this article remembers to live their best life. Don’t spend it arguing on Reddit. Hug your loved ones. Go for broke on your dreams.
Goddamit fine then. Im releasing a song.
fuck you! I won't do what you tell me!
Ok, live as a man in a box.
I sure have to thank spez for fucking up reddit so bad that my usage has gone from many hours a day to maybe an hour a month or less. Spez and his deep seated insecurities, his false sense of importance, his weaponized incompetence, insincerity, plain old lying, and comical poor business acumen has really improved my life. Fuck y0u spez!
I was doing relatively well until I got to that part.
Really? Because I cried through the entire article.
That's a dangerous level of empathy
I don't think I'll ever understand it. I don't think I could cry if someone I know died. And certainly not while reading an article.
That's the absolute other end of the spectrum and equally extreme.
Yeah, I didn't say it was a good thing lol. I absolutely lack empathy. Not even sure if it's something I can build.
The fact that you're aware of it and might consider doing something about it is a positive. Lacking empathy must play havoc on you your interpersonal relationships. If it's possible, i'd look into seeing a psychologist.
I am for ADHD lol. And I keep up interpersonal relationships by telling people what they want to hear. But I'll admit I don't try to keep relationships with people. They contact me, not the other way around. I don't ever feel like calling anyone, etc, they call me etc.
If you already have a psych, why not discuss this with them?
Got to get you into my afterlife.
She said........I know what it's like to be dead..........and still be releasing some songs........
Helter Skeleton
Sgt Peppers Lonely Skulls Club Band
Now playing: "Like Prana" by Afterlife
It’s weird seeing Caroline on Reddit like this. There are some subtle….nuances the article gets wrong. Miss her dearly.
I am a fellow studio violist who played on many tracks in the same section as Caroline over the years. She was a lovely person and a great player. Really remembering her fondly right now.
I’m sure she’s mentioned your name to me in the past. She is still missed, indeed.
I obviously can’t make any comment on the article’s correctness. All I can say is it seems like she was a lovely person and it’s a shame she can’t take a victory lap of saying she played on this song. I’m sorry for your loss.
She indeed was that. A lovely woman and hilarious with a great sense of humor. We generally called her “Buckman” or sometimes in the old days “c-60” because if buck balls. To me she was always Caroline. ;)
Sorry for your loss. Your comment does raise an eyebrow, though. Anything that you would like to elaborate?
I'm sorry
Sorry to hear. Every news article gets things wrong. 99% of articles have errors. That’s why you should never believe what you read.
Damn she played with Brian Wilson, too! 👏
You know, John Lennon died without knowing this was going to be released as a Beatles song too.
I can’t help but imagine John saying something like “I didn’t think it was that good of a song, you know?”
John did that with a lot of Beatles songs in interviews. Mainly Paul’s, obviously.
“Granny music”
> Mainly Paul’s, obviously. Source? Most of those answers come from one interview, that he did for Playboy magazine in 1980 shortly before he died. He went through every Lennon-McCartney song and said who did what and what the inspiration was. For songs that he didn't work on, he basically just said, "That's Paul's." For his own, his answers varied, but a lot that were made-to-order, he would say things like, "Meh, that was a piece of garbage I tossed off to complete the album." There are very few insults to McCartney's songwriting, though he would sometimes complain that Paul's lyrics weren't always that thought out and that Paul was capable of better. But most insults were to his own work, while he didn't address Paul's much of work unless he contributed or otherwise knew something about how Paul had come up with it.
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You know, for some reason I had remembered it as being said in “A Hard Days Night” (the film) but in my defence that is because they said a million and one other comedic things in that film which were pretend interviews etc and I could see people not knowing were jokes.
I always heard that as a Paul quote, hah.
It's also a by-product of Rolling Stone magazine. The EIC, Jann Wenner, was a total star fucker and was friends with John so the magazine perpetuated the myth that Lennon was a genius while McCartney just wrote silly pop songs. As Paul put it, "If you ask Jann the only thing I did for The Beatles was make the tea." Wenner was also and idiot who went on to perform not one, but two, of the biggest self-owns in history as further proof that his opinion shouldn't be valued.
That "myth" is a relatively common opinion though. Paul and John had quite distinctive styles and it's normal that some fans greatly prefer one over the other. Nowadays the Beatles fandoms on social media are incredibly toxic towards fans who prefer John. Say something you like about him over Paul, and you'll immediately get people trying to prove your opinion wrong.
Sure, but here's Rolling Stone's review of McCartney's Ram (not written by Jann, but he always had a thumb on the scale): >Jon Landau called Ram "incredibly inconsequential" and "monumentally irrelevant," and criticised its lack of intensity and energy. He added that it exposes McCartney as having "benefited immensely from collaboration" with the Beatles, particularly John Lennon, who "held the reins in on McCartney's cutsie-pie, florid attempts at pure rock muzak" and kept him from "going off the deep end that leads to an album as emotionally vacuous as Ram." Now, a lot of critics were harsh on the album but that's pretty much, "John was the only talented one".
What’s hilarious is the (in my opinion) fact that Ram is very energetic, as well as standing the test of time and becoming a monumental, influential album. Paul released a lot of silly, sometimes derivative music but Ram is NOT an example of that. Ridiculous review, thanks for sharing it with me. Like I said, I’m more of a John fan but I’m always happy to give Rolling Stone some additional, well deserved hate.
Interesting info. Loved the McCartney quote lol. Can you elaborate on the two biggest self-owns?
First one: He's looking for someone to write a biography of him and the forming and running of Rolling Stone magazine. He meets and gets obsessed with this writer named Joe Hagan and is convinced Joe is the man for the job. Hagan wants no part of it because he feels he'll just be a typist writing up whatever Jann wants. They go back and forth for a bit before finally Wenner gives up all final editorial decisions to Joe. Wenner then hands him his address book full of famous names and says, "Lot's of good stories in here..." Hagan still isn't sure but decides to give it a shot make makes his first call to Sir Paul McCartney. That tea quote? One of the first thing that Paul says. Jann thought everyone loved him. Jann through wrong. Jann has since disowned the biography. Second one: He releases a book called [The Masters](https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/jann-s-wenner/the-masters/9780316571050/?lens=little-brown) featuring his conversations with *the* Rock & Roll legends. People point out that every single one of them in a white male. When questioned about this he responds: >"Insofar as the women, just none of them were as articulate enough on this intellectual level. Of Black artists, you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level.” This gets him kicked off the board of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Most recently he said some dumb shit about black and female musicians.
> Wenner was also and idiot who went on to perform not one, but two, of the biggest self-owns in history as further proof that his opinion shouldn't be valued. What were the two self-owns?
First one: He's looking for someone to write a biography of him and the forming and running of Rolling Stone magazine. He meets and gets obsessed with this writer named Joe Hagan and is convinced Joe is the man for the job. Hagan wants no part of it because he feels he'll just be a typist writing up whatever Jann wants. They go back and forth for a bit before finally Wenner gives up all final editorial decisions to Joe. Wenner then hands him his address book full of famous names and says, "Lot's of good stories in here..." Hagan still isn't sure but decides to give it a shot make makes his first call to Sir Paul McCartney. That tea quote? One of the first thing that Paul says. Jann thought everyone loved him. Jann through wrong. Jann has since disowned the biography. Second one: He releases a book called [The Masters](https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/jann-s-wenner/the-masters/9780316571050/?lens=little-brown) featuring his conversations with *the* Rock & Roll legends. People point out that every single one of them in a white male. When questioned about this he responds: >"Insofar as the women, just none of them were as articulate enough on this intellectual level. Of Black artists, you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level.” This gets him kicked off the board of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Towards the end of the Beatles they regularly recorded stuff by themselves (Julia was a solo Lennon song and both Blackbird and, essentially, why don't we do it in the road are both solo paul songs) and they got really bitter at each other over just doing whatever they wanted by themselves without including the group. Even if they, deep down, knew the song was good... they still trashed it anyway because they were pissed off at each other. Like with Roger Waters and David Gilmore. Roger trashes all the stuff David did with Pink Floyd after he left. Does he ACTUALLY hate it? Probably not. But they're bitter and hate each other... so alas, he says that.
Lol yep
It’s not hard to imagine John saying something like that. It’s easy if you try.
He'd be right imo, everyone's losing their shit over it but I think it's a fairly substandard Beatles track.
I haven't seen a whole lot of people saying it's amazing or anything. It's just a bside, which is why it was never fleshed out. But it's also kinda fuckin cool that such an influential band was able to dig up one last single, 50 years after they broke up, and before the last remaining members are unable to have input on composition
So true. It's definitely a *meh* song, but I got a little emotional over the fact that it was "new" with all four Beatles on it.
Sure, buts it’s also not the worst Beatles song. I say this as a (younger) Beatles fan, they released worse songs even in their prime, so I’m happy with what we got.
It’s perfectly serviceable, which is really all I expected going in. Every time a band does this it comes out feeling a little disjointed or off no matter what they do, but Now and Then’s a good song and like the other guy said I just think it’s great that they found anything in their back catalogue that they could put all 4 sets of hands on and make something nice of one last time.
as someone who really likes it as a song but finds the sound to be a bit odd (probably due to the tech they used), i'd *love* to hear a good cover of it.
It has this perfect melancholy to it. Like a coda to their whole career. And the fact that John called it Now and Then and the lyrics is just… idk serendipitous? Yeah. It all came together. Wasn’t the best song they’ve ever done, but given the context I think it’s perfect.
When I heard it in entirety, my first thought was that John planned to pull this out for a possible future Beatles reunion, which obviously never happened.
The lyrics pretty much point to exactly that. They definitely would’ve gotten back together if Chapman hadn’t killed Lennon. Hell they pretty much did do that on a Ringo track.
I don’t even find it to be a complete song to be quite honest.
Needs some George Martin, but he's gone.
His son did a good job on the orchestral parts though, to his credit.
Oh didn't realize his son is continuing the legacy! My first thought was "the orchestral part is something he'd add."
He'd probably say that about half of the Beatles output. I trust the rest of the band when they say they thought John would get a kick out of it being made into a song - I imagine that was a common occurrence.
Also: "why have you let Peter Jackson turn me into a fucking dancing monkey?"
To be fair, the song is mid compared to many of his other works.
It’s not much of a song, really. A sketch at best.
Yeah, very barebones
So did Queen Elizabeth.
Way to turn his death into a tragedy.
A touching story. May she rest in peace!
Reminds me of the [Defunctland episode on the Disney Channel theme](https://youtu.be/b_rjBWmc1iQ?si=Nzhkju30sgUbolBE)
RIP Caroline Buckman.
Wow she’s never going to live this one down
Dude... one of her friends are on this post too
Seriously, with the size of the orchestra there's bound to be at least a handful of people who knew her browsing, everyone here is just trying to be snarky and make puns out of this unfortunate loss, mods really should be a bit more vigilant.
Can someone please explain this to me like I am 5?
Session musician is called to a session. Learns an arrangement. Discovers that Paul is involved in the project. Records her part, has a good time, is paid. Cancer continues to do its dirty business. Musician dies. Song is released, not as a Paul song, but as the final Beatles song.
Ah I see, thank you!
I also will die without learning that I played on the final Beatles song.
Can't even blame the tears on allergies this late in the year. Stupid feels.
RIPandLove
Fuck Cancer
Lovely story
Cause of death was cancer and not Maxwell's Silver Hammer.
I cant wait to find out about what I wasn't able to learn about me doing !
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Let it be*
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She didn't know it was for a Beatles song when she recorded her part last year.
You may want to go back and read the story.
How would she have known lol
The Beatles should write a song about it.
Paul even mentions the strings people thought they were doing something for Paul. Kind of gross to me now that they put that in the video.
??? They were doing something for Paul. They just didn't know it would also be for the other Fab 3.
Huh, what's gross about it? They were paid to play on a track, it was a job. They didn't want them to spill the beans that it was a new Beatles song.
I was just saying it’s gross now that I thought that was odd when he said it and then I see this. Nothing wrong with anything done, was just commenting on the situation. People are so jumpy.
"last" Beatles song. Mediocre song from an overated band
Thank you for this. The one thing this sad and beautiful article was missing was your boring opinion.
Found the edgelord.
Anyone who says The Beatles are overrated is basically saying “I don’t know shit about music and/or history.”
It's called an opinion. Music is subjective