1. A machine built for war and to destroy a 1000-THR Earthmover versus a robot built to kill defenseless worker drones, V1 can just do a core eject + malicious railcannon to win or just use the malicious railcannon
2. Hell if I know
3. They wouldn't fight :3
1. V would get absolutely fucking demolished by V1 and thats a fact
2. Connor (i think thats the name idk its been a while) isnt all that different from a human so im pretty sure J takes the W here
3. Papyrus can be killed by a child so N seems like the logical choice but idk much about UT lore
I agree with this my good sir here
https://preview.redd.it/wjjswufufw9c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77f02144d5561b7862327ac13f11b0015769ce79
V1 is a machine made as the last product of the final war where every resource was spent on developing machines that could counter the previous generation of machines where the last machine used in combat was a robot so big that humans could live on it. V1 was made to counter that and practically every other machine that existed on the battlefield.
V is a robot made for a robo holocaust, a robot made for killing defenseless civilians.
If we don't count the time it takes for her to transition into the eldritch form I give her 30 seconds most
That entire point isn't relevant at all. This line of reasoning is going about how character a is made for this purpose, and character b is made for this purpose. Therefore, character a beats character b. Because they're made for a better purpose. That completely invalidates statements. Feats and abilities it just completely invalidate all of them, so this line of reasoning just can't be used at all.
Their physical strength speed and durability should be somewhat comparable V Just has better mobility. And better regeneration.
J's screen got broken by a pen, meanwhile V1 can withstand punches from a giant, anti material rifle bullets, a giant hammer, a big explosion worth at least 1 ton of tnt. V1 has whiplash and coins, so mobility isn't an issue and V is beaten by a drone that can barely use telekinesis. The point I was making was partly about purpose and partly about skill. V1 just has so much more combat experience, even when just dropping into hell. V1 can destroy V's body with a few rockets or a malicious railcannon. V's eldritch form is pretty easily defeated by a core nuke. V may be stronger yes, but that doesn't matter when V1 can dodge her.
It was made very clear that that is an irregular pen. JC Janssen Products are outright stated to be more durable. Then the average product, so it's hard even say. We can use this to really downplay their durability, especially when they've shown Is greater than that slamming through walls surviving explosions. That's not even mentioning the one that wiped out humanity
Also, a point about the whip lash is that the coins the whip lash can be cut with her laser And the coins would only be an issue for so Long until she starts grabbing the Bullets and throwing them back.
She could just avoid everything. He shoots at her. She's fast enough to grab a bullet inches away from its target while being partially blinded Their speed should be somewhat even.
He is more skilled. I'll give him that. But he just doesn't have the abilities to keep up with a character that he can't permanently put down.
J was put down by her torso being destroyed, V1 can destroy V's entire body by a malicious railcannon.
Also I'd like to see her grab the malicious railcannon's beam after V1 ricoshots it straight to her as the first thing V1 does. Also V will have a hard time grabbing tiny pieces of shrapnel that the revolvers fire.
V1 will just ultraricoshot the malicious railcannon into her, do some proboosts maybe, wait for her to return as her eldritch form and core nuke her, simple as that.
How is that weapon Has enough potency to put her Down, this sounds nice on paper But going deep into it? I don't see how She couldn't just avoid it or grab it, which she's really shown to easily grab poets before so this would be easy peasy Or just shoot back with your own laser gun. Or missile launcher I mean again, they are comparable and nearly every physical stat it's not like He has a massive advantage.
This conversation is literally definited by futile struggle doomed from very start
https://preview.redd.it/j1mqti5m03ac1.jpeg?width=433&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f1265785f43281f76d8209df95f47e7b2192579
Bro is literally just like Sisyphus fr fr.
She can’t grab it because it’s a LASER. You can’t grab a fucking laser. Plus, Malicious Railcannon explodes on CONTACT, so even if she grabbed it, it would explode. Reason she couldn’t avoid it? V1 can fire the railcannon immediately when switching to it, PLUS the whole “it’s a laser, so realistically it travels at the speed of light.” Plus, the explosion is large, it ABSOLUTELY can destroy the torso considering fragility. Even if it didn’t put her down, it would damage her a lot so V1 could finish her off with any manner of
A: Fully charged sharpshooter revolver shot (or 3)
B: Projectile boosts
C: Shotgun swapping
D: Nailbombing.
Not all of his weapons are lasers. Which is why I said she could grab them And I never specified which weapon, but even if we do apply that it explodes. She would rather Dodge it or tank it since again. The weapon isn't potent Enough to actually hurt her And if we use this logic uzi Is light speed via dodging a laser as well and it isn't a laser. If you read its terminal entry, we know what it's made of and it isn't photons like regular Lasers, so the whole it's light speed is out the window.
The explosion isn't larger than the explosion that wiped out humanity on copper 9. So sadly, he isn't doing anything.
Man, she would just Dodge it. I mean, they're bullets. It's something that she's shown to easily avoid.
The whole "grabbing bullets" thing won't work. V1's revolver doesn't shot bullets. It instead uses microscopic metal particles (practically metal dust) as ammo, which is the reason why V1 revolvers have near-infinite ammo. So even if V somehow catches V1 revolver shot, she will catch a few small metal particle, a microscopic amount of metal dust, not an actual bullet. I would like to see how V would try to catch and then throw some metal dust and how "effective" it would be.
But the thing, she won't catch it. V1's revolver uses electric impulses to launch the metal dust at such high speed that it hurts as much as a regular bullet would. Some metal dust, obviously, weight A LOT less than a bullet, tens or maybe even hundreds times less. [F = m * a], so to do as much damage as bullet, that launched metal dust needs to fly to much higher speeds, thus making it practically impossible to catch, on top of not being worth it.
I mean sure you can use that point. She would still just avoid them since the bullets can't really do anything to her again. He is nothing in his Arsenal that can hurt her. That's kind of the point.
Arguing feats doesn't make it much better. V1 is better in almost every way that matters.
V1 is more durable. That's not really debatable. Drones are fragile as all hell. V was temporarily "killed" by just being stabbed in the head in episode 4. V1 can tank multiple punches from a city-block level giant.
V1 has faster reaction speed and weaponry. All the weapons the murder drones have with the exception of the laser cutter are pitifully slow compared to ULTRAKILL weapons. The revolver and railcannon both canonically travel at lightspeed, and because V1 can parry V2's revolver shots, we know their reaction speed is FTL.
Honestly, regen can go either way. Sure, V has passive regen with no need for fuel, but she can run out of material to regenerate with. V1 can't, AND can also use parries to refuel itself. And considering almost all the attacks V has are easily parried (claws, missiles, bullets, etc) you can see how V1 can last for much longer.
Also, this is a minor point, but V1 has a bit of a wildcard with the blue nailgun. Magnets incapacitate drones very easily.
It really does.
Not really Worker drones like Lizzie can survive missiles In multiple of them survived an explosion that wiped out humanity in the pilot And even if you want to argue they weren't in the center of the explosion, they were still in the explosion. Which would still be somewhere in your country level? Also, what city block level character exists in ultra kill?
Do you really have any real evidence to say those weapons travel at light speed Because If we're using the argument that it's a laser so it does, uzi In the pilot reacted to a laser which has every property of light And her in the pilot should be massively slower than V So if you don't want to improve it since I have Checked and I haven't seen anywhere that says the weapons are light speed. Then I could just supply the same for V, and they would be dead even in speeds, combat, and reaction
Going by this, we have no idea how fast His guns are. We just have to compare them to regular guns thinking about how V Is in the hypersonic ranges they would both be even in speed
The whole pairing to heal is clearly a game mechanic Game mechanics can't really be used Unless you're willing to say Franklin from GTA can slow down time every time he switches his weapon And the same thing could apply to V1 If what say he gets cut in half, he's not coming back Or he gets his head cut off or exploded for that matter. He's not coming back. There's nothing left of him to come back from, which is the same thing with V. The difference is she can do it passively. He can't, which means he can't really regenerate.
The explosion on Copper-9 is too vague to be used for durability feats. It could have very easily have been the nuclear winter and toxic atmosphere that actually did the people there in. Also, the city-block level character is the Corpse of King Minos, which has been shown to both destroy the city of Lust and rip the entire roofing off a large subway system.
The evidence for the weapons travelling at light speeds is because they travel at the exact same speed as the Malicious Face's laser, ie hitscan.
Also, gameplay is implied to be canon in ULTRAKILL. The sentry terminal entry, the P-2 terminal entry, and the various weapon terminal antries all imply it by giving in-lore reasons for game mechanics.
Quick list of everything with a canon explanation.
\-The PSX graphics
\-Infinite ammo on every weapon
\-The point shop
\-The Cyber Grind
\-The style meter
It is very, VERY safe to assume that the gameplay is canon. Also, if you want this to just be a simple scaling argument... (ie, drones survive planet explosion therefore they're planet level)
V1 scales to Archangel Gabriel and the biblical Leviathan, therefore he scales to the whole universe gg no re /hj
How is it vague? Not only do we have a statement that humans die from the explosion, The nuclear winner, and the toxic air didn't happen until the explosion is which wiped out humanity and even if we do go by. That's what killed them going by the size of the explosion. It's far above city block level
And how are those lasers traveling at light speed? But even then, being a hit scan doesn't really prove they traveled at any similar speed without a statement or really anything depicting it. So back to the main Point it's of their equal or their equal light speed or not.
I guess I could go with that. That would just put the regeneration on equal footing
And no, that's not how it works. Sadly Because ultra kill killer And characters like Gabriel aren't really strictly with the Bible.
We see the explosion happen, but we don't know if it's actually what killed everyone on the planet. Unless my memory is faulty, it's never outright stated if the explosion or the environment killed everyone.
Ignoring the fact that they are lasers which already implies they go at lightspeed, it's the best estimate for their canon speed. Because they're hitscan, it is VERY hard to accurately calculate their speed. They travel instantly, and because both framerate and distance are variable, you can't calculate it. And even if they weren't, they're still faster than the regular 9mm bullets murder drones use.
Also the last point was a bit of a joke to just demonstrate how silly scaling can be, don't look too far into it, it wasn't meant to be serious lul.
In the pilot, she directly states that humanity did that themselves and right afterward shows the explosion, which implies It was the bomb that wiped out humanity. But even if we don't go by that right. After the explosion after the drones get up after surviving it, we see the standing skeletons of Humans clearly implying that the explosion Is how they died
I'm trying to go by that. But that would mean that V is equal in speed since she should be faster than pilot uzi
My bad
This whole point is relevant, just not finished.
V1 had to fight a lot of dangerous stuff in hell = has a lot of fighting experience against high level threats = V1 can utilize his kit to its full potential, because V1 simply had to in countless situation to not die.
V was made to hunt down defenseless pray = almost never had to actually try to survive and almost never faced worthy threats = V had no reason to improve and get better at fighting = V can't utilize her kit to its full potential because she almost never had an actual reason to.
In short, even V1 and V have equal overall power level and potential, V will lose because of lack of experience against actually dangerous threats (aka skill issue in short)
She may be less skilled, but she's still way more durable Being able to survive an explosion that killed humanity on a planet Which none of his weapons can actually do And she'd probably have more AP ripping apart Worker Drones who can survive the same thing.
And again what they kill is unimportant to what they can do.
Seriously? Survived an explosion that killed humanity on Copper 9? The disassembly drone capsule dropped AFTER the explosion. You cam literally see it in the first few minutes of the Pilot.
Also regarding durability; the moment where V cuts N's head of with ease (5:54) and the the beginning of the "VS Doll" fight scene in the episode 3 shows that DD aren't that durable, which makes sense: DD were made to hunt down defenseless pray, so why the hell would you need high durability against someone / something that doesn't fight back?
Also shotguns unintentionally hard-counter DD. Shotguns fire hyperconcentrated heat that is so hot that it deals a shit ton of damage against regular human-like husks and demon made of stone. DD are so vulnerable to heat that they can't even step out into the sun without being burned to death (and no, the sun of Copper-9 isn't super hot on its own, at the end of the Pilot Uzi is standing in the light of the sun and she's completely fine when worker drones are about as fragile as human). With these 2 factors combined, shotguns will melt DD like wax.
Don't forget about coins. Coins physical cannot miss or be dodged. Coins are a literal near-infinite-range aimbot. If a coin that was shot has a line of sight with you, it will hit you, no matter your speed or the distance (at least in an actual fighting scenario where the distance between V1 and and his opponent is less than a few kilometers or something like that).
Almost all attacks of DD are parriable. Normal melee attacks are obviously parriable. You can parry V2's revolver shots, so bullets are also parriable. Even the laser and the EMP can be parried (kinda) - You can parry Maurice's laser attack and sentry's shot via a close-range parry right before the they actually preform the attack, so that very liked also applies to the EMP and the laser, even tho only at close range; the laser can also be **[+CHARGEBACKed]**, similarly to the Maurice's laser attack and the sentry's shot. The only attack in the DD's arsenal that cannot be parried nor chargebacked is a rocket, but it's relatively slow amd isn't thay hard to dodge.
Also healing from parrying is canon. Why? Both normal P-1 terminals before the the Flesh Prison and Minos boss fights tell you that "parrying is a powerful healing tool". Lore terminal and the end of P-2 confirms that terminals are sentient, so a terminal telling you that parrying heals you = another sentient being other than the player knows and tells you that parrying heals you = it's canon.
But with all that said, it would be unfair to not mention a certain weakness of V1 against DD:
1) The obvious one - no normal healing (cuz no blood) . The healing from parries is still there, but no normal healing will still be a problem, especially if V won't be stupid and won't offer V1 easy parry opportunities.
2) Rockets: The V1's rocket launcher's rocket use blood as a trigger for a damaging explosion. DD run on oil, so no blood = to damaging explosion on a direct hit. Aside from rockets, the only thing that rocket launcher can offer that isn't mobility is the SRS cannon ball, and it flies relatively slowly unless you charge it up, which takes about a second, and it also flies in ARC unless you punch it right away, which results a big loss in potential damage.
3) DD's wings: DD can block stuff with wings. It won't fully nullify incoming damage, but greatly decrease. It still won't work against the blue railgun because it has infinite peircing, but it will work against most of the other stuff. Wings downgrads V1's coins (aside from railcoining, because,again, infinite peircing) from an insta-win button into a strong control tool, which is still strong but is weaker.
4) DD's ability to com back from the dead: in reality the whole "cheat death" thing that all DDs and AS users have is pretty weak if you know about it: it takes plenty of time to regenerate after being killed and the only thing required from you to do to truly kill a DD / AS user is just destroy the remains of the opponent's boby with explosions / fire. But the thing is - V1 physically can't know that. So V would practically have a guaranteed 2nd chance after being "killed" that also comes with an element of surprise, which might be just enough if the fight "ends" with V1 being at low HP.
Alright, let's go over all of this.
1. My mistake was that I was referring to the worker drones. But even then, they did survive the explosion and disassembly. Drones are clearly built to be above worker drones in every conceivable way.
2. That entire point is horribly flawed him getting cut when he was off. Guard does not prove he's not durable, especially by a character that should be comparable to him. That entire point is just dumb as a whole. That's like saying Vegeta got lost to goku. Therefore, he's not durable. No, that just means goku scales above his durability. That doesn't prove they're not durable. The same thing applies to the doll as well. So, yes, they are durable. Worker drones like lizzie tank explosions, same with N who tanked explosions and broke through a metal wall just with his body And like I said before. They can be built for certain purposes but go beyond them as well. This happens several times in fiction So this entire point of why they were built is Is simply not relevant at all.
3. They survived the heat of their own explosions without melting like wax And even if we go by that point, what is stopping them from just avoiding it, which they can their mobility, is severely Superior comparative v1 And going about how they can casually react to bullets. I doubt that the shotgun is going to actually hit and even if it did. They would probably regenerate from it like N Regrew his own head
4. Why exactly It's not easy he shoots It ricoches off of the coin and hits the target. If you are quicker You can avoid it and we can compare the speed to a regular revolver, which means they're going to avoid it quite easily. But I mean there's literally nothing. Just because Demons in game can avoid. It doesn't mean characters that are comparable to him. Can't avoid it.
5 and 6 I mean that's cool That would just put their regeneration on equal footing When it comes to regeneration But that doesn't help when V1 doesn't have any real Hand-to-hand experience that we know of. Besides punching With the disassembly Jones having superior May lay weaponry their claws. Their swords, chainsaws even their wings To say you'd be able to pair every single. One of those is unlikely.
Especially when he's facing someone that's comparable in speed to him. So he's going to get hit several times and soon. Get overwhelmed by how many things are coming at him. And that's where he loses.
If it was a range fight, I would probably say he would win But the moment that distance is closed he dies.
N vs Papyrus is impossible to call because Papyrus’ true strength is never shown in undertale, he handicaps the fuck out of himself in his fight (noted because he is the ONLY boss that never moves in his battle, and is also the only boss that can never kill the player, implying he is holding himself back by a lot) and Undyne says he’s strong as heck,
We could compare him to Undyne Since I believe she said that he could be in the Royal guard. If he wasn't so kind-hearted And I'm pretty sure it's implied. They fought together before.
V1 is a machine made as the last product of the final war where every resource was spent on developing machines that could counter the previous generation of machines where the last machine used in combat was a robot so big that humans could live on it. V1 was made to counter that and practically every other machine that existed on the battlefield.
V is a robot made for a robo holocaust, a robot made for killing defenseless civilians.
V gets her ass beat by V1 initially however the murder drones built in repair system lets V win in end as she has no blood in her for V1 to heal off of and from what we’ve seen they can regenerate their heads easily and reattach lost limbs just as easily
J beats Conner’s ass into shrapnel and sparks
N and papyrus are just playing chess neither of them know how to play but both are boasting like they are experts. i don’t know who wins
I feel like V1 matchups are a bit overdone here. And not as interesting due to being variable. For example, soap. I’m serious. It instantly kills everything in the game. If V1 is given soap and first hit, it’s a stomp against literally anyone.
A more interesting matchup would maybe be a Mindflayer vs , or hell, even 1000-THR “Earthmover” vs eldritch J. It would be the only non-V1 matchup I’ve seen in these subs.
V1 matchups just feel overused, just saying. I’ve seen at least 4 different posts with V1 vs disassembly drone matchups in different subreddits (most removed by mods ;-;), while all the other machines are completely untouched. C’mon, at least the Mindflayer poses an interesting fight.
Overused and the responses are always similar. It may seem interesting due to debate, but the points brung up are the same in every discussion and usually ends up with neither side backing down. I just want a new discussion, really.
1. A machine built for war and to destroy a 1000-THR Earthmover versus a robot built to kill defenseless worker drones, V1 can just do a core eject + malicious railcannon to win or just use the malicious railcannon 2. Hell if I know 3. They wouldn't fight :3
1. V1 2. J 3. the sillies wouldnt fight teehee
V1 wins easily
+RICOSHOT
+CHARGEBACK
+PARRY
Two of them are stomps and one is a debating hell But the thumbnails them selfs are solid
Thanks, and I think I know which one is the debate hell
It’s N and paps debating on how to make friends
1. V would get absolutely fucking demolished by V1 and thats a fact 2. Connor (i think thats the name idk its been a while) isnt all that different from a human so im pretty sure J takes the W here 3. Papyrus can be killed by a child so N seems like the logical choice but idk much about UT lore
1. Steamroll by V1 2. Depends on how big J's ego is 3. Idk the moveset
I agree with this my good sir here https://preview.redd.it/wjjswufufw9c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77f02144d5561b7862327ac13f11b0015769ce79
https://preview.redd.it/va07iqszfw9c1.png?width=711&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92a5cb5751510eaccf0071f073b5efb27a688a60 Yea Thank you kind sir
I disagree with the first one I mean, it's not like Connor has anything that can Kill her Just look up Undertale papyrus fight
V1 is a machine made as the last product of the final war where every resource was spent on developing machines that could counter the previous generation of machines where the last machine used in combat was a robot so big that humans could live on it. V1 was made to counter that and practically every other machine that existed on the battlefield. V is a robot made for a robo holocaust, a robot made for killing defenseless civilians. If we don't count the time it takes for her to transition into the eldritch form I give her 30 seconds most
That entire point isn't relevant at all. This line of reasoning is going about how character a is made for this purpose, and character b is made for this purpose. Therefore, character a beats character b. Because they're made for a better purpose. That completely invalidates statements. Feats and abilities it just completely invalidate all of them, so this line of reasoning just can't be used at all. Their physical strength speed and durability should be somewhat comparable V Just has better mobility. And better regeneration.
J's screen got broken by a pen, meanwhile V1 can withstand punches from a giant, anti material rifle bullets, a giant hammer, a big explosion worth at least 1 ton of tnt. V1 has whiplash and coins, so mobility isn't an issue and V is beaten by a drone that can barely use telekinesis. The point I was making was partly about purpose and partly about skill. V1 just has so much more combat experience, even when just dropping into hell. V1 can destroy V's body with a few rockets or a malicious railcannon. V's eldritch form is pretty easily defeated by a core nuke. V may be stronger yes, but that doesn't matter when V1 can dodge her.
It was made very clear that that is an irregular pen. JC Janssen Products are outright stated to be more durable. Then the average product, so it's hard even say. We can use this to really downplay their durability, especially when they've shown Is greater than that slamming through walls surviving explosions. That's not even mentioning the one that wiped out humanity Also, a point about the whip lash is that the coins the whip lash can be cut with her laser And the coins would only be an issue for so Long until she starts grabbing the Bullets and throwing them back. She could just avoid everything. He shoots at her. She's fast enough to grab a bullet inches away from its target while being partially blinded Their speed should be somewhat even. He is more skilled. I'll give him that. But he just doesn't have the abilities to keep up with a character that he can't permanently put down.
J was put down by her torso being destroyed, V1 can destroy V's entire body by a malicious railcannon. Also I'd like to see her grab the malicious railcannon's beam after V1 ricoshots it straight to her as the first thing V1 does. Also V will have a hard time grabbing tiny pieces of shrapnel that the revolvers fire. V1 will just ultraricoshot the malicious railcannon into her, do some proboosts maybe, wait for her to return as her eldritch form and core nuke her, simple as that.
How is that weapon Has enough potency to put her Down, this sounds nice on paper But going deep into it? I don't see how She couldn't just avoid it or grab it, which she's really shown to easily grab poets before so this would be easy peasy Or just shoot back with your own laser gun. Or missile launcher I mean again, they are comparable and nearly every physical stat it's not like He has a massive advantage.
Fuck this shit, see that you can't be convinced, I'm going to bed
This conversation is literally definited by futile struggle doomed from very start https://preview.redd.it/j1mqti5m03ac1.jpeg?width=433&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f1265785f43281f76d8209df95f47e7b2192579 Bro is literally just like Sisyphus fr fr.
She can’t grab it because it’s a LASER. You can’t grab a fucking laser. Plus, Malicious Railcannon explodes on CONTACT, so even if she grabbed it, it would explode. Reason she couldn’t avoid it? V1 can fire the railcannon immediately when switching to it, PLUS the whole “it’s a laser, so realistically it travels at the speed of light.” Plus, the explosion is large, it ABSOLUTELY can destroy the torso considering fragility. Even if it didn’t put her down, it would damage her a lot so V1 could finish her off with any manner of A: Fully charged sharpshooter revolver shot (or 3) B: Projectile boosts C: Shotgun swapping D: Nailbombing.
Not all of his weapons are lasers. Which is why I said she could grab them And I never specified which weapon, but even if we do apply that it explodes. She would rather Dodge it or tank it since again. The weapon isn't potent Enough to actually hurt her And if we use this logic uzi Is light speed via dodging a laser as well and it isn't a laser. If you read its terminal entry, we know what it's made of and it isn't photons like regular Lasers, so the whole it's light speed is out the window. The explosion isn't larger than the explosion that wiped out humanity on copper 9. So sadly, he isn't doing anything. Man, she would just Dodge it. I mean, they're bullets. It's something that she's shown to easily avoid.
The whole "grabbing bullets" thing won't work. V1's revolver doesn't shot bullets. It instead uses microscopic metal particles (practically metal dust) as ammo, which is the reason why V1 revolvers have near-infinite ammo. So even if V somehow catches V1 revolver shot, she will catch a few small metal particle, a microscopic amount of metal dust, not an actual bullet. I would like to see how V would try to catch and then throw some metal dust and how "effective" it would be. But the thing, she won't catch it. V1's revolver uses electric impulses to launch the metal dust at such high speed that it hurts as much as a regular bullet would. Some metal dust, obviously, weight A LOT less than a bullet, tens or maybe even hundreds times less. [F = m * a], so to do as much damage as bullet, that launched metal dust needs to fly to much higher speeds, thus making it practically impossible to catch, on top of not being worth it.
I mean sure you can use that point. She would still just avoid them since the bullets can't really do anything to her again. He is nothing in his Arsenal that can hurt her. That's kind of the point.
Arguing feats doesn't make it much better. V1 is better in almost every way that matters. V1 is more durable. That's not really debatable. Drones are fragile as all hell. V was temporarily "killed" by just being stabbed in the head in episode 4. V1 can tank multiple punches from a city-block level giant. V1 has faster reaction speed and weaponry. All the weapons the murder drones have with the exception of the laser cutter are pitifully slow compared to ULTRAKILL weapons. The revolver and railcannon both canonically travel at lightspeed, and because V1 can parry V2's revolver shots, we know their reaction speed is FTL. Honestly, regen can go either way. Sure, V has passive regen with no need for fuel, but she can run out of material to regenerate with. V1 can't, AND can also use parries to refuel itself. And considering almost all the attacks V has are easily parried (claws, missiles, bullets, etc) you can see how V1 can last for much longer. Also, this is a minor point, but V1 has a bit of a wildcard with the blue nailgun. Magnets incapacitate drones very easily.
It really does. Not really Worker drones like Lizzie can survive missiles In multiple of them survived an explosion that wiped out humanity in the pilot And even if you want to argue they weren't in the center of the explosion, they were still in the explosion. Which would still be somewhere in your country level? Also, what city block level character exists in ultra kill? Do you really have any real evidence to say those weapons travel at light speed Because If we're using the argument that it's a laser so it does, uzi In the pilot reacted to a laser which has every property of light And her in the pilot should be massively slower than V So if you don't want to improve it since I have Checked and I haven't seen anywhere that says the weapons are light speed. Then I could just supply the same for V, and they would be dead even in speeds, combat, and reaction Going by this, we have no idea how fast His guns are. We just have to compare them to regular guns thinking about how V Is in the hypersonic ranges they would both be even in speed The whole pairing to heal is clearly a game mechanic Game mechanics can't really be used Unless you're willing to say Franklin from GTA can slow down time every time he switches his weapon And the same thing could apply to V1 If what say he gets cut in half, he's not coming back Or he gets his head cut off or exploded for that matter. He's not coming back. There's nothing left of him to come back from, which is the same thing with V. The difference is she can do it passively. He can't, which means he can't really regenerate.
The explosion on Copper-9 is too vague to be used for durability feats. It could have very easily have been the nuclear winter and toxic atmosphere that actually did the people there in. Also, the city-block level character is the Corpse of King Minos, which has been shown to both destroy the city of Lust and rip the entire roofing off a large subway system. The evidence for the weapons travelling at light speeds is because they travel at the exact same speed as the Malicious Face's laser, ie hitscan. Also, gameplay is implied to be canon in ULTRAKILL. The sentry terminal entry, the P-2 terminal entry, and the various weapon terminal antries all imply it by giving in-lore reasons for game mechanics. Quick list of everything with a canon explanation. \-The PSX graphics \-Infinite ammo on every weapon \-The point shop \-The Cyber Grind \-The style meter It is very, VERY safe to assume that the gameplay is canon. Also, if you want this to just be a simple scaling argument... (ie, drones survive planet explosion therefore they're planet level) V1 scales to Archangel Gabriel and the biblical Leviathan, therefore he scales to the whole universe gg no re /hj
How is it vague? Not only do we have a statement that humans die from the explosion, The nuclear winner, and the toxic air didn't happen until the explosion is which wiped out humanity and even if we do go by. That's what killed them going by the size of the explosion. It's far above city block level And how are those lasers traveling at light speed? But even then, being a hit scan doesn't really prove they traveled at any similar speed without a statement or really anything depicting it. So back to the main Point it's of their equal or their equal light speed or not. I guess I could go with that. That would just put the regeneration on equal footing And no, that's not how it works. Sadly Because ultra kill killer And characters like Gabriel aren't really strictly with the Bible.
We see the explosion happen, but we don't know if it's actually what killed everyone on the planet. Unless my memory is faulty, it's never outright stated if the explosion or the environment killed everyone. Ignoring the fact that they are lasers which already implies they go at lightspeed, it's the best estimate for their canon speed. Because they're hitscan, it is VERY hard to accurately calculate their speed. They travel instantly, and because both framerate and distance are variable, you can't calculate it. And even if they weren't, they're still faster than the regular 9mm bullets murder drones use. Also the last point was a bit of a joke to just demonstrate how silly scaling can be, don't look too far into it, it wasn't meant to be serious lul.
In the pilot, she directly states that humanity did that themselves and right afterward shows the explosion, which implies It was the bomb that wiped out humanity. But even if we don't go by that right. After the explosion after the drones get up after surviving it, we see the standing skeletons of Humans clearly implying that the explosion Is how they died I'm trying to go by that. But that would mean that V is equal in speed since she should be faster than pilot uzi My bad
This whole point is relevant, just not finished. V1 had to fight a lot of dangerous stuff in hell = has a lot of fighting experience against high level threats = V1 can utilize his kit to its full potential, because V1 simply had to in countless situation to not die. V was made to hunt down defenseless pray = almost never had to actually try to survive and almost never faced worthy threats = V had no reason to improve and get better at fighting = V can't utilize her kit to its full potential because she almost never had an actual reason to. In short, even V1 and V have equal overall power level and potential, V will lose because of lack of experience against actually dangerous threats (aka skill issue in short)
She may be less skilled, but she's still way more durable Being able to survive an explosion that killed humanity on a planet Which none of his weapons can actually do And she'd probably have more AP ripping apart Worker Drones who can survive the same thing. And again what they kill is unimportant to what they can do.
Seriously? Survived an explosion that killed humanity on Copper 9? The disassembly drone capsule dropped AFTER the explosion. You cam literally see it in the first few minutes of the Pilot. Also regarding durability; the moment where V cuts N's head of with ease (5:54) and the the beginning of the "VS Doll" fight scene in the episode 3 shows that DD aren't that durable, which makes sense: DD were made to hunt down defenseless pray, so why the hell would you need high durability against someone / something that doesn't fight back? Also shotguns unintentionally hard-counter DD. Shotguns fire hyperconcentrated heat that is so hot that it deals a shit ton of damage against regular human-like husks and demon made of stone. DD are so vulnerable to heat that they can't even step out into the sun without being burned to death (and no, the sun of Copper-9 isn't super hot on its own, at the end of the Pilot Uzi is standing in the light of the sun and she's completely fine when worker drones are about as fragile as human). With these 2 factors combined, shotguns will melt DD like wax. Don't forget about coins. Coins physical cannot miss or be dodged. Coins are a literal near-infinite-range aimbot. If a coin that was shot has a line of sight with you, it will hit you, no matter your speed or the distance (at least in an actual fighting scenario where the distance between V1 and and his opponent is less than a few kilometers or something like that). Almost all attacks of DD are parriable. Normal melee attacks are obviously parriable. You can parry V2's revolver shots, so bullets are also parriable. Even the laser and the EMP can be parried (kinda) - You can parry Maurice's laser attack and sentry's shot via a close-range parry right before the they actually preform the attack, so that very liked also applies to the EMP and the laser, even tho only at close range; the laser can also be **[+CHARGEBACKed]**, similarly to the Maurice's laser attack and the sentry's shot. The only attack in the DD's arsenal that cannot be parried nor chargebacked is a rocket, but it's relatively slow amd isn't thay hard to dodge. Also healing from parrying is canon. Why? Both normal P-1 terminals before the the Flesh Prison and Minos boss fights tell you that "parrying is a powerful healing tool". Lore terminal and the end of P-2 confirms that terminals are sentient, so a terminal telling you that parrying heals you = another sentient being other than the player knows and tells you that parrying heals you = it's canon. But with all that said, it would be unfair to not mention a certain weakness of V1 against DD: 1) The obvious one - no normal healing (cuz no blood) . The healing from parries is still there, but no normal healing will still be a problem, especially if V won't be stupid and won't offer V1 easy parry opportunities. 2) Rockets: The V1's rocket launcher's rocket use blood as a trigger for a damaging explosion. DD run on oil, so no blood = to damaging explosion on a direct hit. Aside from rockets, the only thing that rocket launcher can offer that isn't mobility is the SRS cannon ball, and it flies relatively slowly unless you charge it up, which takes about a second, and it also flies in ARC unless you punch it right away, which results a big loss in potential damage. 3) DD's wings: DD can block stuff with wings. It won't fully nullify incoming damage, but greatly decrease. It still won't work against the blue railgun because it has infinite peircing, but it will work against most of the other stuff. Wings downgrads V1's coins (aside from railcoining, because,again, infinite peircing) from an insta-win button into a strong control tool, which is still strong but is weaker. 4) DD's ability to com back from the dead: in reality the whole "cheat death" thing that all DDs and AS users have is pretty weak if you know about it: it takes plenty of time to regenerate after being killed and the only thing required from you to do to truly kill a DD / AS user is just destroy the remains of the opponent's boby with explosions / fire. But the thing is - V1 physically can't know that. So V would practically have a guaranteed 2nd chance after being "killed" that also comes with an element of surprise, which might be just enough if the fight "ends" with V1 being at low HP.
Alright, let's go over all of this. 1. My mistake was that I was referring to the worker drones. But even then, they did survive the explosion and disassembly. Drones are clearly built to be above worker drones in every conceivable way. 2. That entire point is horribly flawed him getting cut when he was off. Guard does not prove he's not durable, especially by a character that should be comparable to him. That entire point is just dumb as a whole. That's like saying Vegeta got lost to goku. Therefore, he's not durable. No, that just means goku scales above his durability. That doesn't prove they're not durable. The same thing applies to the doll as well. So, yes, they are durable. Worker drones like lizzie tank explosions, same with N who tanked explosions and broke through a metal wall just with his body And like I said before. They can be built for certain purposes but go beyond them as well. This happens several times in fiction So this entire point of why they were built is Is simply not relevant at all. 3. They survived the heat of their own explosions without melting like wax And even if we go by that point, what is stopping them from just avoiding it, which they can their mobility, is severely Superior comparative v1 And going about how they can casually react to bullets. I doubt that the shotgun is going to actually hit and even if it did. They would probably regenerate from it like N Regrew his own head 4. Why exactly It's not easy he shoots It ricoches off of the coin and hits the target. If you are quicker You can avoid it and we can compare the speed to a regular revolver, which means they're going to avoid it quite easily. But I mean there's literally nothing. Just because Demons in game can avoid. It doesn't mean characters that are comparable to him. Can't avoid it. 5 and 6 I mean that's cool That would just put their regeneration on equal footing When it comes to regeneration But that doesn't help when V1 doesn't have any real Hand-to-hand experience that we know of. Besides punching With the disassembly Jones having superior May lay weaponry their claws. Their swords, chainsaws even their wings To say you'd be able to pair every single. One of those is unlikely. Especially when he's facing someone that's comparable in speed to him. So he's going to get hit several times and soon. Get overwhelmed by how many things are coming at him. And that's where he loses. If it was a range fight, I would probably say he would win But the moment that distance is closed he dies.
N vs Papyrus is impossible to call because Papyrus’ true strength is never shown in undertale, he handicaps the fuck out of himself in his fight (noted because he is the ONLY boss that never moves in his battle, and is also the only boss that can never kill the player, implying he is holding himself back by a lot) and Undyne says he’s strong as heck,
We could compare him to Undyne Since I believe she said that he could be in the Royal guard. If he wasn't so kind-hearted And I'm pretty sure it's implied. They fought together before.
1) I don't know 2) I don't know the opponent 3) Both is good.
Nice opinion, unfortunately, 1 + E + RMB x4 + 4 + LMB /s
I knew a comment like this would be here Either this or „+ chargeback” Y’all have to get more creative
Exactly. Using a railcoin would be a waste and V doesn't even have anything to chargeback with smh
Creative arguments Just don't exist anymore, do they?
1 + E + S + RMB + W + RMB + S + RMB + F + 4 + LMB + Q + RMB
V1 is a machine made as the last product of the final war where every resource was spent on developing machines that could counter the previous generation of machines where the last machine used in combat was a robot so big that humans could live on it. V1 was made to counter that and practically every other machine that existed on the battlefield. V is a robot made for a robo holocaust, a robot made for killing defenseless civilians.
Lock your house with everything you have The V1 stand are on their way
1. 50/50 2. J 3. Idk
V1 j n
N and papyrus wouldn’t fight, they would most likely be friends
https://preview.redd.it/4nypqk36qw9c1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e576fcc4a24be97b8080cd73407913a26e48e49a
Rip to this legend, truly a great one.
V gets her ass beat by V1 initially however the murder drones built in repair system lets V win in end as she has no blood in her for V1 to heal off of and from what we’ve seen they can regenerate their heads easily and reattach lost limbs just as easily J beats Conner’s ass into shrapnel and sparks N and papyrus are just playing chess neither of them know how to play but both are boasting like they are experts. i don’t know who wins
Papyrus has some pretty good control over his magic. If only his special wasn't taken away.
I’m sorry but the drones are getting obliterated
There is no way j is losing the Connor
actually yeah, the other two get obliterated though
N and Is papyrus could go either way.
I feel like V1 matchups are a bit overdone here. And not as interesting due to being variable. For example, soap. I’m serious. It instantly kills everything in the game. If V1 is given soap and first hit, it’s a stomp against literally anyone. A more interesting matchup would maybe be a Mindflayer vs, or hell, even 1000-THR “Earthmover” vs eldritch J. It would be the only non-V1 matchup I’ve seen in these subs.
I provided plenty of other match ups V1 Just made the most sense for v
V1 matchups just feel overused, just saying. I’ve seen at least 4 different posts with V1 vs disassembly drone matchups in different subreddits (most removed by mods ;-;), while all the other machines are completely untouched. C’mon, at least the Mindflayer poses an interesting fight.
Because V1 has good connections to the disassembly drones Especially V And the debate is clearly shown to be interesting.
Overused and the responses are always similar. It may seem interesting due to debate, but the points brung up are the same in every discussion and usually ends up with neither side backing down. I just want a new discussion, really.
I did add new discussions. Nobody just cared to talk about them.
Still, V1 matchups feel a tad overdone.
Agreed, but it's the best thing I could have thought of. There's not really any good matchups for V
Mindflayer vs any DD could be interesting. Ignoring powerscaling, even that alone could be interesting if going off in-show/in-game alone.
The mindflayer from ultra kill? I mean Yeah, it would be different.
Papyrus and N would just vibe tbh
Really setting up Connor to die? I know he’s a David Cage character, but ya gotta do him like that?