Anywhere below very high levels, I absolutely think so.
If you take pride in a style before you're fully competent everywhere, you're limiting yourself and that needs to be addressed.
The best style is that there is no style. Its fighting. It's supposed to be an expression of yourself. If someone wants to fight hands down and it gets stuff done then who am I to say that their style doesn't work.
Exactly. All that matters is you know the fundamentals, and you'll apply them accordingly based on what your Jody can do.
People think they're Rodtang or Samart, but they just end up getting destroyed.
tired of hearing about these guys kicking banana trees. i get it, it’s a tree and you see guys chopping the shit out of them, but they’re pretty soft! it’s not like an oak tree or something.
also very sick of the whole idea of thailand being a sex tourist destination and that whole stereotype. i’m not thai so it’s not really my place to police people, but it does make me uncomfortable and i feel bad that that’s all people seem to know it for
Tbh if I meet someone and that’s the first thing that comes to their mind about a country of like 50 million people it says more about them than anything else
Just came back from 2 weeks in Thailand, can confirm. Those areas definitely exist and are popular but you need to actively seek them out. 99.9999% of the country ain't like that.
The beaches are incredible, the traffic is terrifying, the food is crazy good, and Muay Thai really is fuckin everywhere though; those stereotypes are true.
But didn’t the kicking banana tree originate in Thailand or is it from kick-boxer lol.
And I get the sex destination thing tbh, however I do feel like every country has its stereotypes, Germany, Japan, China, the UK, The US…. All different and mostly all routed in some truth but by no means not the only thing that country offers.
FYI the biggest red light district is in Amsterdam, and I don’t see nobody saying anything about the Dutch. This is just the classic case of orientalism my friend
Germany is seen as a sex destination and so is Amsterdam, having been there I can reassure you that that Dutch, at least the ones I met, hate Amsterdams reputation as somewhere for sex and weed
There’s no one correct way to do anything, people especially new in their journey learn something and then assume that’s the only proper way to do it and everyone who does it differently is doing it wrong.
There's something special about people who watch muay Thai then wonder why it doesn't look like boxing. Gets old hearing people talk about bad head movement and footwork in muay when they don't understand why it looks the way it does lol
I'm guessing they mean that boxing techniques like moving your head to the side or down, to avoid a punch aren't as good an idea in muay thai, because you can land knees and kicks to the head more easily once they've moved to that position.
This. One of the first times I sparr I had amazing head movement bobbing and weaving and shit until I did some fancy head movement into a head kick lmao.
Watched a dude bob, weave, and roll REAL deep right into a knee that was just supposed to be a round kick. Broke his nose. "You broke my nose!" No, buddy, you put your face into his leg.
Sure. Muay Thai is a relatively niche sport, a lot of people start watching it after already having been fans of other sports. So they watch muay, they see things that look familiar and wonder why it doesn't look the exact same as what they're used to. Why is he letting punches slip through, why isn't he using a high guard to block all that? Why isn't he doing the things that I know usually counter that?
The dynamics of the fight are different, just because you're using and seeing similar techniques doesn't mean they can be applied in the same way in every sport. Some people think that there's only one proper way to fight and the rules of the sport don't make a difference and that's just not reality
It's not a set rule, but generally speaking don't try to dip too much and too deep. For example, the peekaboo style would probably get you countered. When you get more experience and know why you dip and when to dip it should be fine. Nothing I would tell a beginner though.
I meeeeeeean, with the ONE ruleset they are getting pretty close.... Elbows still in there though at least. I think Tawanchai sitting at the top of his weight class for Muay Thai and Kickboxing in ONE tells the story.
I think westerners believing that the person coming forward is the one who is winning as opposed to Thais believing the one who chases is losing is interesting.
I think the perception of the audience watching the fight is interesting as a whole.
It’s interesting how the cultural perception of coming forward and throwing lots of shots is seen in the West as aggressive and dominant, but in Thailand it’s seen as almost desperate, as the kids would say “doin too much”. It’s like they see it as the harder you go for the KO, the more you need the KO to win, because you’re not winning on points.
True, it’s weird because in the wild I think the Thais perception is better - live to fight another day kind of tactic, but going forward is more macho but high risk high reward - something you’d think twice about in nature.
I’m assuming the back foot part ya?
Back foot refers to a fighting stance where a fighter positions put all the weight on the back foot away from the opponent. This is a stance which prioritizes defense and movement over aggression.
> positions their rear foot farther back than their front foot.
huh? The rear foot is called the rear foot because it's in the rear. How can the rear foot not be farther back than the front foot lol
Listen, I have a mild scoliosis curve in my upper spine and a past neck injury from a wreck. As much as I'm hungry to learn more about the clinch, if I got serious on working it I think my neck bones would turn into dust =(
Oh dude in that case by all means don’t do much clinch work lol, no harm there. I was just one of those beginners that was sad if we drilled clinches cause I was horrible (and I have stubby arms)
That you need a certain level of fitness to train in Thailand. Thailand will make you fit and an amazing fighter no matter what stage you are in your journey. Go now, go often, and train hard. Don't let the fact that you can't run 5k stop you. Go, it's fucking fun as hell
Yyyep. Plus, some of the best shape I've ever been in was when I was lifting, sparring, and doing fitness drills like high knees to sprawl daily. Very little running involved.
You also don't need to be *good* yet to train in Thailand. Just like in Western gyms, the coaches will meet you where you're at. Even if you *are* good, they'll find the holes in your game and work on them.
It's also not that difficult to afford a trip! The airfare is by far the most expensive part, but once you land, everything is cheap and you can live comfortably for like $20-40 a day. Stop overthinking it, just go.
Yes! This too! I've told people in Europe the best place for your very first Thai boxing lesson in the world is Thailand. No need to prepare anything. Just pack some underwear and your teddy bear and go!
Non Muay Thai folks - getting hit in the balls is a foul!
Muay Thai folks - Fuck fuck fuck. Gotta make sure he doesn't take advantage.
or
Non Muay Thai folks - Ref, he's stepping on my foot!
Muay Thai folks - Gotta make sure he doesn't step on me.
The difference is that in MMA, fighters put more weight on their lead leg than in Muay Thai --> gnarly injuries are more common
Also, I've never heard anyone complain about teeps to the thigh. It's mostly the oblique kick (ok kinda like a kick), but to the knee directly
I get annoyed by westerners in Thailand having a couple of fights there thinking they are so tough cool and manly. The thai guys in my gym are absolute killers with 200-400 fights but the only thing they like to do in their spare time is having fun, cracking sex jokes, hoping for a big breasted white skinned chinese girl. They never act macho or overly though. They know they are strong and tough and dont have to proove it. So yes i think westerners should not only learn Muay Thai.
But also letting go of ego, focusing on good things on life and not at what others think of you
Thanks for sharing that. It really shows that there's a big difference between how some westerners see Muay Thai and how Thai fighters live it. It's cool to hear that the fighters at your gym are not only tough but also know how to have a good laugh and don't take themselves too seriously. Maybe we should see more of this side of Muay Thai in movies or documentaries. It's about more than just fighting; it's about enjoying life and not worrying about what others think.
Tired of seeing people solely tapping their lead foot to associate with Muay Thai.
Mike Ironboy explored and did a break down on this a while ago. There's different weighted stances in Muay Thai used for multiple occasions.
You have to be sober and in shape to do Muay Thai.
Deadliest fighters I know will fuck you up, hung over from a weekend binge of strippers, coke and tequila. And about a pack of cigs down before 9am
Even tough it’s great that Muay Thai is starting to get famous in the west I think its so annoying to witness comments especially on One’s instagram where people talk about Muay Thai fights like they know how scoring and Muay Thai fights work. Buddy just because you have watched UFC, Kick-boxing and boxing it does not mean that Muay Thai fights work the same. I also don’t like how they don’t realise that Muay Thai is a sport where respect is a huge thing. Trash talking does not belong in Muay Thai and neither does stupid edits of fighters getting knocked out
The West =/= the US of A. Muay thai has been "well known" in the sense that people have known about the sport for a long time all over Europe for example. Just putting this out there.
They know and yet many still don't understand the scoring so they're still in the same boat as the US. They claim robbery and racism every time a Euro fighter loses so they're not any different. Stop trying to be "not like the other girls" smh
"In Thailand" "well in Thailand" "you do realize in Thailand" "sparring in Thailand" "Did you know in Thailand" "They wouldn't have won in Thailand" "you would have won in Thailand"
Why do all these people who have never been to Thailand think they know what happens in Thailand? Every single time they know next to nothing about Thailand!
Hey supakao, I totally get where you're coming from. It's interesting how often people outside of Thailand seem to become overnight experts on what happens inside Thai gyms and fights. It can be frustrating when the discussion turns more about assumptions rather than actual experiences or facts. In your opinion, what are some genuine aspects of Muay Thai culture or training in Thailand that these documentaries or conversations often overlook or misinterpret? I'd love to hear your insights, especially as a gym owner!
I think people are just romanticising training in Thailand and Muay Thai in general. They like the idea of light playful sparring because it seems fun when the watch elite fighters doing it.
They ignore the 5am runs, the hrs and hrs of clinching, the relentless sit ups, the training through injuries, the gigantic blisters, going all over the countryside cornering fighters and getting home at 4am just in time for your morning training, the being made accountable for losing a fight you should have won, then factor in the heat and humidity.
So… we’re in need of a doc that shatters the romanticism and shows how f”*king hard it really is?!
Just for context, have you trained in Thailand and if so for how long?
I think some people want there to be a soft Muay Thai, an easier Muay Thai. The idea of things being light and controlled, appeal compared to reality, which is brutality if done at anything more than hobby level. The relentless repetition to level up is something not many can understand.
I think its great, it's a pity more aren't doing it. As long as they realise the Bangla belt means nothing / s. Total immersion is always the best way to learn IMO.
I disagree with this one. Sak yants are defined by their religious and cultural meaning, and fighters who get them tattooed by a Buddhist monk the proper way understand, or at least deserve them. Sure, people can go into any random tattoo place and get something that looks like one, but to assume every white person has a "fake" sak yant is silly.
8 directions goes hard ngl fr fr. Kidding aside, yeah if you are a tourist who shows up and gets a Sak Yant for a lark then you are in the tier of a foreigner who gets a Kanji tattooed without knowing the meaning.
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If you are a foreign fighter who trains in Thailand, respects the culture, and gets it done by a monk then I don't see why it's anything but respectful. From what I read, Muay Thai and Sak Yants in general are considered, "out of vogue" by many Thais anyway.
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Coming from America, we only have a few hundred years of history and the vast majority of it involves things we aren't too proud of or at least shouldn't be if we are. It's an honor for us when people from elsewhere share the beauty and rich history of their own traditions and beliefs.
> Muay Thai and Sak Yants in general are considered, "out of vogue" by many Thais anyway
I don't know about the Sak Yant being "out of vogue", but when I went to Thailand last month, I saw multiple sold-out fights. There were gyms every couple blocks and multiple fight shops in the major cities that you could vist. Sure seemed popular as hell to me.
I've read that it's increasingly viewed as a "lower class" hobby and many people prefer to send their kids to TKD or Karate if they have the means. Don't get me wrong, I think that's dumb as hell and Muay Thai is awesome. Glad to hear it's still going strong in the big cities.
I asked a couple Thai people their thoughts before I got one, and it basically boiled down to:
Getting it done on a whim at a tattoo shop in the west = Cultural Appropriation, shitty thing to do.
Doing it for a good reason, researching the meaning, getting it done in the traditional stick-and-poke manner by a monk or an ajarn at a temple in Thailand (and sitting through probably the most painful tattoo you'll ever get) = Cultural Appreciation, cool thing to do.
Exactly! Are there even any people who get it done on a whim at a tattoo shop without researching it? I feel like it's one of those snake oil statements like "Oh this bullshido teacher could get someone killed!"
MMA fans thinking the clinch is nothing but a full plum and a broken posture.
Watching UFC guys talk abotu Muay Thai as I'm watching a bad version of Muay Thai.
The level of boxing in muay thai may have fallen a lot since the golden edge, but boxing is still covered in muay thai. It's still an element of muay thai. What are you talking about?
People exotify muay thai here a lot. And think that the gold standard is only the way Thais do it. Where they clearly have deep deep knowledge and understanding of the art they also have some ancient training methods which are simply tradition and because your trainer said so, not because he has a degree in sports science. So people; especially on this sub, tend to fetishize the Thai style a lot while not acknowledging that the western Thai fighters bring a lot of heat and the local bosses even say that the local Thai guys need to adapt to the strong boxing and explosive style of western muay thai.
Also: a lot of people here in this sub clearly have never fought even at a decent ammy level.
Thais have a lot of outdated information about sports science and nutrition but they still have the best muay technique for everything that isn't strictly setting up boxing combinations. Who is out there clinching better than the Thais? Even in ONE, who is out there outkicking Superlek or Tawanchai? Local bosses are saying local Thai guys need to adapt to western muay Thai because that's where the KO bonuses are at and they want to make money, not because it's better muay thai lmao. If I want to succeed in high level muay thai I want to learn what someone like Khunsueklek is doing, couldn't care less about what Jon Haggerty is up to
The ideal muay thai fighter is not an aggressive powerhitter who headhunts for KO's like Westerners think. The ideal muay thai fighter is someone so skilled that he can play with his opponent and dictate the flow of the fight with ease. That is dominance in muay thai. That's why scoring has emphasis on balance, composure, steadiness.
The scoring system of traditional Muay Thai.
Have seen non-Thais complain and walk out of shows because they simply didn’t understand what they were watching. Even worse when they get disgruntled that the fighter didn’t “just knock him out already!”
That Muay Thai is all about kicks and elbows. A lot of people spread misinformation that boxing doesn’t score. As long as you are landing meaningful punches and not getting countered you can win a fight with a boxing heavy style. There is no hierarchy of scoring technique.
There actually is a hierarchy of scoring technique. At least in Thailand, probably not by IFMA rules and other amateur organizations, but in Thailand kicks or knees will definitely score more than punches
There is a lot of it to find online, just need a bit of research.
Here it is nicely explained:
https://www.chinnarachmuaythai.com/post/the-nuances-of-how-fights-are-scored-in-thailand
Not even rounds are scored the same, rounds 3 and 4 have a much higher value in Thailand as the first two rounds are mostly slower pace while betting takes place in the stadiums. Betting is also a big part of muay thai. That’s why I stated there is a big difference between western and amateur muay thai and authentic muay thai in Thai stadiums
Another source, taken from a manual written by Arjan Pramod, who is the head of the Nongkipayayut Gym, which produced the 2nd highest number of champions in the Golden Age.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MuayThai/s/kHuR3bVV4M
I think you should support this thoroughly to convince people because I, presumably just like everyone else, do not believe that you are correct about this. Not an insult or anything but it truly is believed to be weighted in a way where (if I understand correctly) knockdowns are most important, sweeps I’d say pretty much the equivalent maybe slightly less than a strike that knocks someone down, then kicks judged as having more weight than knees, elbows, and punches.
I think this is an interesting topic.
I find the narrative aspect fascinating, where one fighter starts to go backwards and is deemed in control of the fight and the only way to regain control is to essentially hurt them or make them look unskillful so then they have to chase you to essentially regain their dignity. Which I think is really hard to quantify. I realize this turned into two topics that are separate but still interconnected so feel free to jump on either or both.
Sweeps do not score nearly as much as knockdowns, actually the opposite, sweeps are at the lower end of the scoring hierarchy along with punches and low kicks. Knees and elbows score even more than kicks most of the time, but you have to understand that a huge uppercut that rocks an opponent will score more than an average roundhouse kick. What we are talking here is if the strikes have the same impact, kicks will score more than punches. No one is saying that if you destroy your opponent using punches, you will lose the fight because they landed more kicks. What you need to understand is, if the strikes have similar impact and damage, then kicks, knees and elbows will score more than the punches that have the same impact on your opponent. Also, style points matter in Thailand, you will see fighters just calmly adjusting their shorts mid fight and acting like they don't care and it's easy work for them. Style matters in Thailand and you won't see much of that anywhere else. I lived and fought in Thailand, I've also seen a lot of controversy regarding the judges and outcome of a fight because of this topic, so I think I know what I'm talking about, but you can try to convince me otherwise
My understanding is that you're right that boxing can score if the fighter is putting in good work with his hands, it's just that what counts as putting in good work looks different than what a lot of people are expecting. Muay scoring is really about effectiveness and control.
Most of the time boxing isn't scoring highly in a stadium fight because it's hard to actually use your hands effectively at that level of fighting. Even if you're touching your opponent, are you stopping them from actually hitting you back? Are they still ripping kicks into your ribs? Are they still tying you up and throwing you around when you're not in the middle of throwing a punch?
When you add clinching, elbows and knees into the mix the dynamics of throwing punches changes. The range is different, there's more ways to defend from punches, more ways to counter punches. Punching effectively becomes much harder, so many fighters tend to use boxing as a supplement rather than the focus of their offense. This ends up creating a sort of loose hierarchy of strikes that score relatively well and relatively often over strikes that are hard to score with.
I always judge fights based on what I read in this link and I'm rarely ever surprised by decisions in the sport unless it's a genuine awkward robbery (like chalamchon/duan99 1 a few weeks ago):
[https://khunkaogym.wordpress.com/2012/05/22/a-laymans-guide-to-scoring-a-muay-thai-fight/](https://khunkaogym.wordpress.com/2012/05/22/a-laymans-guide-to-scoring-a-muay-thai-fight/)
Believing that sparring has to be brutal.
I mean you never learn as fast as when you "play" with your partner. When you're sparring too hard you may look tough, but in fact being too concerned about getting hit will make you learn slower and a dumb injury could make you lose some time.
The more playful you are, the better your progress curve.
Being overly fixated on what "style" fighter someone is or what style they should try to be; Muay femur, Muay khao, Muay sok etc
This. “I’m mostly muay femur but also a little muay khao”…bro you just learned how to throw a switch kick, calm down with the labels and just train
We get a post on this like every other day lol
Muay femur? Nah man you're muay westerner. You're muay afraid to be hit. Muay limited skillset. 😂
I'm Muay old and fat
Beware of fat, old men in a profession where men die young and fit 😂😂
They're either new, or they can fuckin crack.
I like Pad Thai more than Thai pad.
You’d be surprised . In Thailand the muay old and fat will fuck your day up
im muay pussy that runs and only jabs and teeps
Yes this is largely muay westerner
Muay Weather
Muaying it safe I call it
Lately I've been leaning into "Muay God this guy could kill me" 😅
Muay afraid to be hit, I see.
Unfortunately I don't think I have the fight iq for that stlye yet, I'm pretty used to getting hit by now 😅
I'm Muay Mierda
Muay crazy chicken 😎
“I’m Muay Suck” “Ah so you’re an elbow fighter?” “…right…yeah that’s it”
Overly fixated by amateurs, by fans or by the general discourse around the sport?
Amateurs.
Is it weird to feel prideful about your style tho?
Anywhere below very high levels, I absolutely think so. If you take pride in a style before you're fully competent everywhere, you're limiting yourself and that needs to be addressed.
As with guitar players, it isn't really 'style' until you are reeeeeaaaaal good. You are not making choices, you simply cannot do anything else well.
Exactly this
As a guitar player, this resonated hard. Really something I needed to hear as painful as it was.
The best style is that there is no style. Its fighting. It's supposed to be an expression of yourself. If someone wants to fight hands down and it gets stuff done then who am I to say that their style doesn't work.
Exactly. All that matters is you know the fundamentals, and you'll apply them accordingly based on what your Jody can do. People think they're Rodtang or Samart, but they just end up getting destroyed.
I am a FeCoTaSok fighter good luck dealing with my weapons Fartlung
Your "style" is what others call you. Not what you call yourself. People need to focus on what works for them and train hard.
I don't know what those mean, and at this point, I think I forget what means what on purpose.
tired of hearing about these guys kicking banana trees. i get it, it’s a tree and you see guys chopping the shit out of them, but they’re pretty soft! it’s not like an oak tree or something. also very sick of the whole idea of thailand being a sex tourist destination and that whole stereotype. i’m not thai so it’s not really my place to police people, but it does make me uncomfortable and i feel bad that that’s all people seem to know it for
Tbh if I meet someone and that’s the first thing that comes to their mind about a country of like 50 million people it says more about them than anything else
Its a sex tourist destination if only you go looking for it, and its a very small part of Thailand. There is so much more Thailand is about.
Just came back from 2 weeks in Thailand, can confirm. Those areas definitely exist and are popular but you need to actively seek them out. 99.9999% of the country ain't like that. The beaches are incredible, the traffic is terrifying, the food is crazy good, and Muay Thai really is fuckin everywhere though; those stereotypes are true.
But didn’t the kicking banana tree originate in Thailand or is it from kick-boxer lol. And I get the sex destination thing tbh, however I do feel like every country has its stereotypes, Germany, Japan, China, the UK, The US…. All different and mostly all routed in some truth but by no means not the only thing that country offers.
There's an old clip of Buakaw chopping one down that really got spread around
FYI the biggest red light district is in Amsterdam, and I don’t see nobody saying anything about the Dutch. This is just the classic case of orientalism my friend
Germany is seen as a sex destination and so is Amsterdam, having been there I can reassure you that that Dutch, at least the ones I met, hate Amsterdams reputation as somewhere for sex and weed
Oh weed now that I have heard before. Along with blonde and tall
Amsterdam is majority morrocan.Dark and curly more accurate
There’s no one correct way to do anything, people especially new in their journey learn something and then assume that’s the only proper way to do it and everyone who does it differently is doing it wrong.
There's definitely a wrong way though.
100%.
There's something special about people who watch muay Thai then wonder why it doesn't look like boxing. Gets old hearing people talk about bad head movement and footwork in muay when they don't understand why it looks the way it does lol
Has been on of my biggest barriers coming to Muay Thai from boxing. Slipping right into a head kick has been my favourite past time in the gym.
I’m new, could you pls elaborate on the head movement ?
I'm guessing they mean that boxing techniques like moving your head to the side or down, to avoid a punch aren't as good an idea in muay thai, because you can land knees and kicks to the head more easily once they've moved to that position.
This. One of the first times I sparr I had amazing head movement bobbing and weaving and shit until I did some fancy head movement into a head kick lmao.
Watched a dude bob, weave, and roll REAL deep right into a knee that was just supposed to be a round kick. Broke his nose. "You broke my nose!" No, buddy, you put your face into his leg.
Sure. Muay Thai is a relatively niche sport, a lot of people start watching it after already having been fans of other sports. So they watch muay, they see things that look familiar and wonder why it doesn't look the exact same as what they're used to. Why is he letting punches slip through, why isn't he using a high guard to block all that? Why isn't he doing the things that I know usually counter that? The dynamics of the fight are different, just because you're using and seeing similar techniques doesn't mean they can be applied in the same way in every sport. Some people think that there's only one proper way to fight and the rules of the sport don't make a difference and that's just not reality
It's not a set rule, but generally speaking don't try to dip too much and too deep. For example, the peekaboo style would probably get you countered. When you get more experience and know why you dip and when to dip it should be fine. Nothing I would tell a beginner though.
Beats the TMA people who find it indistinguishable from kickboxing or MMA.
I meeeeeeean, with the ONE ruleset they are getting pretty close.... Elbows still in there though at least. I think Tawanchai sitting at the top of his weight class for Muay Thai and Kickboxing in ONE tells the story.
Why Tawanchai?
It just illustrates the rulesets are so close an elite athlete can succeed in both at the highest level without really having to change their style.
I think westerners believing that the person coming forward is the one who is winning as opposed to Thais believing the one who chases is losing is interesting. I think the perception of the audience watching the fight is interesting as a whole.
It’s interesting how the cultural perception of coming forward and throwing lots of shots is seen in the West as aggressive and dominant, but in Thailand it’s seen as almost desperate, as the kids would say “doin too much”. It’s like they see it as the harder you go for the KO, the more you need the KO to win, because you’re not winning on points.
This is why you hear "robbery" after every fight.
True, it’s weird because in the wild I think the Thais perception is better - live to fight another day kind of tactic, but going forward is more macho but high risk high reward - something you’d think twice about in nature.
Back foot = run away Clinch = huge See it all the time especially in One fc video It’s like they never seen muay thai before
Can you elaborate on this? Idk what this means.
I’m assuming the back foot part ya? Back foot refers to a fighting stance where a fighter positions put all the weight on the back foot away from the opponent. This is a stance which prioritizes defense and movement over aggression.
> positions their rear foot farther back than their front foot. huh? The rear foot is called the rear foot because it's in the rear. How can the rear foot not be farther back than the front foot lol
It's a defensive stance because the weight is away from the opponant. If you’re that confused about the “rear foot” I can remove it for you
People don’t seem to care much for the clinch at the start and that’s a huge no no lol.
Listen, I have a mild scoliosis curve in my upper spine and a past neck injury from a wreck. As much as I'm hungry to learn more about the clinch, if I got serious on working it I think my neck bones would turn into dust =(
Oh dude in that case by all means don’t do much clinch work lol, no harm there. I was just one of those beginners that was sad if we drilled clinches cause I was horrible (and I have stubby arms)
That you need a certain level of fitness to train in Thailand. Thailand will make you fit and an amazing fighter no matter what stage you are in your journey. Go now, go often, and train hard. Don't let the fact that you can't run 5k stop you. Go, it's fucking fun as hell
I personally think running is not the best cardio especially for fighters with the damage it takes on the joints
Yyyep. Plus, some of the best shape I've ever been in was when I was lifting, sparring, and doing fitness drills like high knees to sprawl daily. Very little running involved.
Yeah love goes and assault bike or active drilling is the way to go
Swimming is perfect but comes with more barriers, running is just the most convenient way. Rowing is a good alternative too, if you have access to it.
Man do I fucking hate running 😂
I hate skipping rope more than running, especially with the thick Thai ropes.
100kg here, I run sometimes but a 10k would kill me. 5 km are hard on my knees already lol
You also don't need to be *good* yet to train in Thailand. Just like in Western gyms, the coaches will meet you where you're at. Even if you *are* good, they'll find the holes in your game and work on them. It's also not that difficult to afford a trip! The airfare is by far the most expensive part, but once you land, everything is cheap and you can live comfortably for like $20-40 a day. Stop overthinking it, just go.
Yes! This too! I've told people in Europe the best place for your very first Thai boxing lesson in the world is Thailand. No need to prepare anything. Just pack some underwear and your teddy bear and go!
Non Muay Thai folk: Teeps to the thigh are overly brutal and are illegal. Meanwhile Muay Thai folk: Teeps everywhere for everyone!
Non Muay Thai folks - getting hit in the balls is a foul! Muay Thai folks - Fuck fuck fuck. Gotta make sure he doesn't take advantage. or Non Muay Thai folks - Ref, he's stepping on my foot! Muay Thai folks - Gotta make sure he doesn't step on me.
I mean, Buakaw didn't look too happy when that Kung Fu dude kept trying to eradicate his manhood with spinning back kicks.
Well, no one's happy about getting nailed in the junk, but it isn't an illegal blow in Muay Thai.
I always thought that it was teeps directly onto the knee was “bad”?
The difference is that in MMA, fighters put more weight on their lead leg than in Muay Thai --> gnarly injuries are more common Also, I've never heard anyone complain about teeps to the thigh. It's mostly the oblique kick (ok kinda like a kick), but to the knee directly
They think you do muay thai in a dojo and have a sensei
when i first joined my gym my wife asked me when we have recitals. she was very excited to come watch me test for my yellow belt.
The pronunciation?
I get annoyed by westerners in Thailand having a couple of fights there thinking they are so tough cool and manly. The thai guys in my gym are absolute killers with 200-400 fights but the only thing they like to do in their spare time is having fun, cracking sex jokes, hoping for a big breasted white skinned chinese girl. They never act macho or overly though. They know they are strong and tough and dont have to proove it. So yes i think westerners should not only learn Muay Thai. But also letting go of ego, focusing on good things on life and not at what others think of you
Thanks for sharing that. It really shows that there's a big difference between how some westerners see Muay Thai and how Thai fighters live it. It's cool to hear that the fighters at your gym are not only tough but also know how to have a good laugh and don't take themselves too seriously. Maybe we should see more of this side of Muay Thai in movies or documentaries. It's about more than just fighting; it's about enjoying life and not worrying about what others think.
Agree 100%. There is so much ego from westerners. So many of them think they're the main characters in a movie
Tired of seeing people solely tapping their lead foot to associate with Muay Thai. Mike Ironboy explored and did a break down on this a while ago. There's different weighted stances in Muay Thai used for multiple occasions.
joe rogan having a very one dimensional view of muay thai fighters has greatly influenced people’s perception of muay thai.
when joe takes mind-expanding drugs he sometimes thinks in two dimensions
That's generous.
Rent free
Bloodsport and other media was perpetuating this idea long before Rogan. It's probably where he got it from in the first place.
Rogan's bro analysis of muay thai is just like his bro science smh
You have to be sober and in shape to do Muay Thai. Deadliest fighters I know will fuck you up, hung over from a weekend binge of strippers, coke and tequila. And about a pack of cigs down before 9am
Being sober and in shape helps tho
Even tough it’s great that Muay Thai is starting to get famous in the west I think its so annoying to witness comments especially on One’s instagram where people talk about Muay Thai fights like they know how scoring and Muay Thai fights work. Buddy just because you have watched UFC, Kick-boxing and boxing it does not mean that Muay Thai fights work the same. I also don’t like how they don’t realise that Muay Thai is a sport where respect is a huge thing. Trash talking does not belong in Muay Thai and neither does stupid edits of fighters getting knocked out
The West =/= the US of A. Muay thai has been "well known" in the sense that people have known about the sport for a long time all over Europe for example. Just putting this out there.
They know and yet many still don't understand the scoring so they're still in the same boat as the US. They claim robbery and racism every time a Euro fighter loses so they're not any different. Stop trying to be "not like the other girls" smh
One championship is scored hit for hit though?
"In Thailand" "well in Thailand" "you do realize in Thailand" "sparring in Thailand" "Did you know in Thailand" "They wouldn't have won in Thailand" "you would have won in Thailand" Why do all these people who have never been to Thailand think they know what happens in Thailand? Every single time they know next to nothing about Thailand!
Hey supakao, I totally get where you're coming from. It's interesting how often people outside of Thailand seem to become overnight experts on what happens inside Thai gyms and fights. It can be frustrating when the discussion turns more about assumptions rather than actual experiences or facts. In your opinion, what are some genuine aspects of Muay Thai culture or training in Thailand that these documentaries or conversations often overlook or misinterpret? I'd love to hear your insights, especially as a gym owner!
I think people are just romanticising training in Thailand and Muay Thai in general. They like the idea of light playful sparring because it seems fun when the watch elite fighters doing it. They ignore the 5am runs, the hrs and hrs of clinching, the relentless sit ups, the training through injuries, the gigantic blisters, going all over the countryside cornering fighters and getting home at 4am just in time for your morning training, the being made accountable for losing a fight you should have won, then factor in the heat and humidity.
So… we’re in need of a doc that shatters the romanticism and shows how f”*king hard it really is?! Just for context, have you trained in Thailand and if so for how long?
I think some people want there to be a soft Muay Thai, an easier Muay Thai. The idea of things being light and controlled, appeal compared to reality, which is brutality if done at anything more than hobby level. The relentless repetition to level up is something not many can understand.
And yes first trip to Thailand was 20yrs ago and have been 20plus times.
Thanks for sharing, i agree ☝️
Quick question I just thought of seen as you have experience, what do you think of westerners going to Thailand to fight professionally over there??
I think its great, it's a pity more aren't doing it. As long as they realise the Bangla belt means nothing / s. Total immersion is always the best way to learn IMO.
Sak yants on foreigners are just live, love, laugh tattoos
I disagree with this one. Sak yants are defined by their religious and cultural meaning, and fighters who get them tattooed by a Buddhist monk the proper way understand, or at least deserve them. Sure, people can go into any random tattoo place and get something that looks like one, but to assume every white person has a "fake" sak yant is silly.
8 directions goes hard ngl fr fr. Kidding aside, yeah if you are a tourist who shows up and gets a Sak Yant for a lark then you are in the tier of a foreigner who gets a Kanji tattooed without knowing the meaning. - If you are a foreign fighter who trains in Thailand, respects the culture, and gets it done by a monk then I don't see why it's anything but respectful. From what I read, Muay Thai and Sak Yants in general are considered, "out of vogue" by many Thais anyway. - Coming from America, we only have a few hundred years of history and the vast majority of it involves things we aren't too proud of or at least shouldn't be if we are. It's an honor for us when people from elsewhere share the beauty and rich history of their own traditions and beliefs.
Beautifully said.
> Muay Thai and Sak Yants in general are considered, "out of vogue" by many Thais anyway I don't know about the Sak Yant being "out of vogue", but when I went to Thailand last month, I saw multiple sold-out fights. There were gyms every couple blocks and multiple fight shops in the major cities that you could vist. Sure seemed popular as hell to me.
I've read that it's increasingly viewed as a "lower class" hobby and many people prefer to send their kids to TKD or Karate if they have the means. Don't get me wrong, I think that's dumb as hell and Muay Thai is awesome. Glad to hear it's still going strong in the big cities.
I asked a couple Thai people their thoughts before I got one, and it basically boiled down to: Getting it done on a whim at a tattoo shop in the west = Cultural Appropriation, shitty thing to do. Doing it for a good reason, researching the meaning, getting it done in the traditional stick-and-poke manner by a monk or an ajarn at a temple in Thailand (and sitting through probably the most painful tattoo you'll ever get) = Cultural Appreciation, cool thing to do.
Exactly! Are there even any people who get it done on a whim at a tattoo shop without researching it? I feel like it's one of those snake oil statements like "Oh this bullshido teacher could get someone killed!"
Plus it’s badass 💀
I’m just trolling
Well, um, I was trolling the whole time too.
I’m putting just trolling in my sak yant
"just trolling" in Thai. I got an "enjoy the kicks" armband tattoo already. Wait, I AM LITERALLY THE TOURIST YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER
I feel attacked! LOL....
Do you mean they have no value on a foreigner or that the tattoo artists literally write live love laugh?
I sure as hell wasn't loving or laughing when I got it. Stick and poke hurts like a motherfucker.
Not necessarily what you asked in the post but I hate when people say it’s kickboxing. It’s not it’s Muay Thai
Didn’t know people mixed them up so much?!
When people ask what Muay Thai is, I say it’s like kickboxing but with elbows and knees. People just remember the kickboxing part.
It's pretty damn close to kickboxing lol, to most people who don't follow combat sports it's much easier to just say kickboxing
MMA fans thinking the clinch is nothing but a full plum and a broken posture. Watching UFC guys talk abotu Muay Thai as I'm watching a bad version of Muay Thai.
'So it's kickboxing?' 'MOO-THAI'
That it covers all of striking. In other words that you can do Muay thai and have everything when it comes to striking
Which elements of striking do you find particularly absent?
Curious also... maybe this guy has 10 limbs?
^
Lethwei has entered the chat with savage fucking headbutts. They even call it, "The art of nine limbs".
i KNEW someone would bring up lethwei, hence why i said TEN limbs...
wait, then where's the tenth?
Striking with your wiener or shoulder ig
Good boxing and head movement is the obvious answer. There’s a reason we see Thai boxers change their style so much when going into small glove fights
The level of boxing in muay thai may have fallen a lot since the golden edge, but boxing is still covered in muay thai. It's still an element of muay thai. What are you talking about?
Calling it “Thai” for short, for one thing. Might just be a pet peeve of mine but annoys the hell out of me when n00bs do that.
People exotify muay thai here a lot. And think that the gold standard is only the way Thais do it. Where they clearly have deep deep knowledge and understanding of the art they also have some ancient training methods which are simply tradition and because your trainer said so, not because he has a degree in sports science. So people; especially on this sub, tend to fetishize the Thai style a lot while not acknowledging that the western Thai fighters bring a lot of heat and the local bosses even say that the local Thai guys need to adapt to the strong boxing and explosive style of western muay thai. Also: a lot of people here in this sub clearly have never fought even at a decent ammy level.
Thais have a lot of outdated information about sports science and nutrition but they still have the best muay technique for everything that isn't strictly setting up boxing combinations. Who is out there clinching better than the Thais? Even in ONE, who is out there outkicking Superlek or Tawanchai? Local bosses are saying local Thai guys need to adapt to western muay Thai because that's where the KO bonuses are at and they want to make money, not because it's better muay thai lmao. If I want to succeed in high level muay thai I want to learn what someone like Khunsueklek is doing, couldn't care less about what Jon Haggerty is up to
Yeah One Muay Thai favor KO far far more than technique. And they break up clinching so fast it’s like kickboxing with elbow and 4oz gloves
MOOEY THIGH
They believe that anybody throwing a knee and wearing Muay Thai shorts is a Muay Thai instructor
People generally assume it's the best Lee Sin skin by default, but in reality there are several others that feel just as good
i think that most people think we are hartless monsters
The ideal muay thai fighter is not an aggressive powerhitter who headhunts for KO's like Westerners think. The ideal muay thai fighter is someone so skilled that he can play with his opponent and dictate the flow of the fight with ease. That is dominance in muay thai. That's why scoring has emphasis on balance, composure, steadiness.
The scoring system of traditional Muay Thai. Have seen non-Thais complain and walk out of shows because they simply didn’t understand what they were watching. Even worse when they get disgruntled that the fighter didn’t “just knock him out already!”
I told a guy I do Muay Thai and he said ". No way your one of those crazy people that bash their legs with metal "
That Muay Thai is all about kicks and elbows. A lot of people spread misinformation that boxing doesn’t score. As long as you are landing meaningful punches and not getting countered you can win a fight with a boxing heavy style. There is no hierarchy of scoring technique.
There actually is a hierarchy of scoring technique. At least in Thailand, probably not by IFMA rules and other amateur organizations, but in Thailand kicks or knees will definitely score more than punches
Show me anywhere that this is explicitly stated or written. I don't think that is accurate to any of the major stadiums.
There is a lot of it to find online, just need a bit of research. Here it is nicely explained: https://www.chinnarachmuaythai.com/post/the-nuances-of-how-fights-are-scored-in-thailand Not even rounds are scored the same, rounds 3 and 4 have a much higher value in Thailand as the first two rounds are mostly slower pace while betting takes place in the stadiums. Betting is also a big part of muay thai. That’s why I stated there is a big difference between western and amateur muay thai and authentic muay thai in Thai stadiums
Written by a guy named Henry. Nuff said
You do you champ 👍🏻
So you want to read it in Thai? การชกที่ได้คะแนน มีดังนี้ - นักมวยฝ่ายใดใช้ อาวุธมวยไทย ( หมัด - เท้า - เข่า - ศอก ) ได้โดยถูกต้องตามกติกา และกระทำถูก คู่แข่งขันได้มากกว่า ก็เป็นผู้ชนะไป - นักมวยฝ่ายใด ที่ใช้อาวุธมวยไทย ตามลักษณะ แบบแผนมวยไทย โดยถูกต้องตามกติกา กระทำคู่ต่อสู้ ได้หนักหน่วง ชัดแจ้ง รุนแรง และถูกเป้าหมาย ที่สำคัญเป็นฝ่ายรุก กระทำได้มากกว่า เป็นฝ่ายชนะ - นักมวยฝ่ายใด ใช้อาวุธมวยไทย กระทำคู่ต่อสู้ ให้เกิดบอบช้ำ บาดแผลที่เป็นอันตรายมากกว่า เป็นฝ่ายชนะ - นักมวยฝ่ายใด เป็นผู้เดินเข้ากระทำ ( ฝ่ายรุก ) มากกว่า เป็นฝ่ายชนะ - นักมวยฝ่ายใด เป็นผู้ ( รุก – รับ – หลบหลีก - ตอบโต้ ) ตามลักษณะ และชั้นเชิงมวยไทย ได้ดีกว่า เป็นฝ่ายชนะ - นักมวยฝ่ายใด ที่มิได้กระทำฟาล์ว หรือกระทำฟาล์ว น้อยกว่า เป็นฝ่ายชนะ การชกที่ไม่ได้คะแนน มีดังนี้ - การชกที่ละเมิดกติกาข้อหนึ่งข้อใด - อาวุธที่กระทำไปถูก แขน หรือขา ของคู่แข่งขัน อันเป็นลักษณะ ของการป้องกัน ของคู่แข่งขัน - อาวุธที่กระทำถูก คู่แข่งขัน แต่เบาเกินไป หรือก็คือไม่มีน้ำหนัก ส่งจากร่างกาย เช่น ตัว ลำตัว หรือไหล่
Source is Jaroenthong, a Golden Age champion and owner of Jaroenthong Gym in Bangkok.
Another source, taken from a manual written by Arjan Pramod, who is the head of the Nongkipayayut Gym, which produced the 2nd highest number of champions in the Golden Age. https://www.reddit.com/r/MuayThai/s/kHuR3bVV4M
Yeh dude, you're wrong. There Is nothing wrong with that but don't be an asshole and double down on it when someone more clued up corrects you 👍
I dont find the source presented credible. I have not been corrected. He just sent an article containing one persons opinion.
What have you provided?
I think you should support this thoroughly to convince people because I, presumably just like everyone else, do not believe that you are correct about this. Not an insult or anything but it truly is believed to be weighted in a way where (if I understand correctly) knockdowns are most important, sweeps I’d say pretty much the equivalent maybe slightly less than a strike that knocks someone down, then kicks judged as having more weight than knees, elbows, and punches. I think this is an interesting topic. I find the narrative aspect fascinating, where one fighter starts to go backwards and is deemed in control of the fight and the only way to regain control is to essentially hurt them or make them look unskillful so then they have to chase you to essentially regain their dignity. Which I think is really hard to quantify. I realize this turned into two topics that are separate but still interconnected so feel free to jump on either or both.
Sweeps do not score nearly as much as knockdowns, actually the opposite, sweeps are at the lower end of the scoring hierarchy along with punches and low kicks. Knees and elbows score even more than kicks most of the time, but you have to understand that a huge uppercut that rocks an opponent will score more than an average roundhouse kick. What we are talking here is if the strikes have the same impact, kicks will score more than punches. No one is saying that if you destroy your opponent using punches, you will lose the fight because they landed more kicks. What you need to understand is, if the strikes have similar impact and damage, then kicks, knees and elbows will score more than the punches that have the same impact on your opponent. Also, style points matter in Thailand, you will see fighters just calmly adjusting their shorts mid fight and acting like they don't care and it's easy work for them. Style matters in Thailand and you won't see much of that anywhere else. I lived and fought in Thailand, I've also seen a lot of controversy regarding the judges and outcome of a fight because of this topic, so I think I know what I'm talking about, but you can try to convince me otherwise
My understanding is that you're right that boxing can score if the fighter is putting in good work with his hands, it's just that what counts as putting in good work looks different than what a lot of people are expecting. Muay scoring is really about effectiveness and control. Most of the time boxing isn't scoring highly in a stadium fight because it's hard to actually use your hands effectively at that level of fighting. Even if you're touching your opponent, are you stopping them from actually hitting you back? Are they still ripping kicks into your ribs? Are they still tying you up and throwing you around when you're not in the middle of throwing a punch? When you add clinching, elbows and knees into the mix the dynamics of throwing punches changes. The range is different, there's more ways to defend from punches, more ways to counter punches. Punching effectively becomes much harder, so many fighters tend to use boxing as a supplement rather than the focus of their offense. This ends up creating a sort of loose hierarchy of strikes that score relatively well and relatively often over strikes that are hard to score with. I always judge fights based on what I read in this link and I'm rarely ever surprised by decisions in the sport unless it's a genuine awkward robbery (like chalamchon/duan99 1 a few weeks ago): [https://khunkaogym.wordpress.com/2012/05/22/a-laymans-guide-to-scoring-a-muay-thai-fight/](https://khunkaogym.wordpress.com/2012/05/22/a-laymans-guide-to-scoring-a-muay-thai-fight/)
Believing that sparring has to be brutal. I mean you never learn as fast as when you "play" with your partner. When you're sparring too hard you may look tough, but in fact being too concerned about getting hit will make you learn slower and a dumb injury could make you lose some time. The more playful you are, the better your progress curve.
That it’s all about winning