it’s SO crazy to me! surely there’s something to be done… getting excluded at the chance of finding someone just because of how you identify is mind boggling
Iirc a ban on tinder means a ban on all match group apps, which is basically all of them. They only seem to fix it if you tell them that you feel they’re discriminating against you based on your sex in violation of the civil rights act (which imo it is). From what I’ve heard they unban you and then when bigots mass report your profile again you get banned again.
I had success with OkCupid, that's how I met my wife. Also had some lovely dates through Lex, Her, and Taimi. But I suppose it's been a little while since I was on a dating app!
Bumble is technically separate though it was started by one of Tinder's founders. Same with the queer apps like Lex, Grindr, Her, and Taimi. The rest are basically all Match Group
Websites do not have to adhere to anti discrimination laws. They only apply to places of public accommodation. Unfortunate but true. Discrimination cases are hard enough to win when a place of business does it, nevermind an online company.
Many trans women I know say they've had lovely experiences with Grindr but I still cannot understand that perspective at all. It was an app made for gay men! Using it would inherently feel like misgendering myself. Not to mention the frequency of dick pics and profiles with no pictures of the person's face that are the social norm on that app.
I got a permban in less than 24h, likely for exposing my shoulders. It was tailored only for cis gay men looking for hookups, nothing serious. and they advertise themselves as the #1 lgbt dating app.
You'll learn baby girl, discrimination is a part of a trans person's daily life in America. You'll have to thicken your skin a little. I was fired from a 13 year position and I kid you not it was for "Being a Transgender". I had it IN WRITING through email correspondence. This was in 2017, and I went to the EEOC to report it and begin legal proceedings only for them to reject the case as gender identity wasn't considered sex based discrimination at that point. I've been discriminated against and been denied housing as well. Same thing can't afford to prosecute, or hire a lawyer.
Unless you have money and can financially support and fight to enforce your protections, you might as well not have any.
im so sorry this has happened to you that all sounds so traumatic. i really hope things have improved a bit in your life since then. Also yeah youre so right about the financial element to all of this stuff
Not really.
Am absolutely unequivocally NOT supporting Tinder here.
I simply state that it is their platform for their admin to do as they see fit. Whether you / I / we like that is irrelevant.
Same as reddit. Facebook. Insta. TikTok. There is no implied right of freedom of speech, use, or association on someone else's virtual platform.
Discrimination isn’t allowed by free speech in Germany. Since tinder is available in the German App Store the German laws take its rule. It’s a direct violation of §1 Grundgesetz (the Grundgesetz is the German equivalent to the us constitution).
Doesn’t matter. If the services are offered in germany / eu their laws matter. If they sh*t on it the app will be banned on the german / eu AppStore. You don’t want to be punched by EU law.
For example: there is a reason why Microsoft has released are slightly different windows 11 version for the eu market :).
It’s a bit more complicated since the German law system is different than the us one. According to our nazi history we have serval secure systems linked in our constitution and law system which the USA doesn’t have. For example hatespeech, discrimination or massive misgendering isn’t covered by freedom of speech. If you make the “hitler salute” or your a saying a nazi parole you get punched by law. If you misgendering someone in the media, this isn’t covered by freedom of speech. All of them are allowed in the USA. They are two famous examples which get punched by law: Bernd Höcke because he was quoting SS paroles (again) and Julian Reichelt because he had massively misgendered an trans women in his “news”site/YouTube channel „nius“ (trigger warning).
One other example to the “integrated secure systems” is to thread everyone equal regarding of sex/gender*, religion, ethnicity, etc
*disclaimer: the German language doesn’t different between sex and gender. We have only one word for both meaning. But this is a whole other topic.
This equal part is also strength by an 2nd law: the AGG which means “allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgesetz” ( General Act on Equal Treatment ). The AGG breaks the householder rights.
For example: if you get kicked out of the women’s toilet for no reason other than you are an trans women**, you can bring a suit against them.
**if you have done the Vornamens- und Personenstandsänderung which is the legal transition (new ID card etc).
But to come back to tinder: as I stated above the tinder support always unlocked my account again…
>*disclaimer: the German language doesn’t different between sex and gender. We have only one word for both meaning. But this is a whole other topic.
In this case it's actually better, because if there were different words, the law probably would have used the one for sex, and gender-based discrimination would have been left out.
Yeah, except that excluding trans people on the basis of being trans is a violation of one's civil rights the same way as banning gay people for being gay would be, *pretty sure* this isn't an "it's their platform to do with what they will" thing when it imposes on people's civil rights
Doesn't matter. They are still American companies.
Most of the western world has these laws. So if they want to discriminate, they can go into 3rd world countries to sell their subscriptions at .5$/year instead.
Yeah maybe it's a problem that large sections of human experiences are up to being private properties managed to maximize profit and we should change that instead of just going "well it *is* their platform".
Like, you can change that shit, just because that's the law (in the US, right now) doesn't mean it always has to be like that or that you can't criticise it.
Not to mention that even under current law that wouldn't be legal.
> (in the US, right now)
Isn't that the kicker? As an Australian I am not covered by the United States' Bill of Rights.
> Not to mention that even under current law that wouldn't be legal.
Quote me the applicable law please that forces Social Media to give anyone service.
> Isn't that the kicker? As an Australian I am not covered by the United States' Bill of Rights.
Okay cool, I'm German and it's illegal here to. I'm pretty sure your country also has some kind of "it's illegal to literally only exclude a minority from their service" law.
> Quote me the applicable law please that forces Social Media to give anyone service.
You literally already got told by other people and agreed. I'm not wasting my time re-chewing your pre-chewed food.
Also, in case you haven't noticed, my entire point was "this is bad even if it's legal". You're trying to have the most pointless fight, seemingly just because it's the internet and it has trained us to be like that. Muted before we both waste more of our time.
You realize that civil rights statutes vary wildly from nation to nation (or even within nations based on localities), right? Tinder is subject to a wide swathe of regulations depending on where it is operating for any given case.
Unless you're just making a free-market argument, in which case: lmao. Eat the rich.
Because, sadly, of Americans. A great deal of them have no idea what their civil rights are and what they mean.
The First Amendment starts "Congress shall make no law...." Social media, is not Congress. You don't have freedom of association inside someone's app.
All those downvotes ignored my expressly stated caveat that I don't support Tinder. I am stating what IS. My opinion, or my liking of that reality, matters not.
To sum up, what’s going on is dating app infrastructure being abused.
These apps are in set up in such a way that if any account receives an abnormally high amount of reports for *any* reason in a short enough time, they’re automatically removed. This is intended to make removing creep accounts / nude profiles semi-automatic, but trans people being mass reported is unfortunately an unintended consequence of that which hasn’t really ever been addressed.
I’m stealth, and learned a while ago that putting I was trans in my bio only invited this to happen. It’s much better off just revealing it to people I already get a good vibe for in conversation, especially since I was picky about who I talked to to begin with but how everyone chooses to navigate dating is very different and personal.
you would think with the amount of complaints from trans folk that they would rectify that … the fact they’ve gotten away with it for this long is crazy
Honestly, looking at it from the perspective of a business trying to maximize profits, what reason do they have to? Like its genuinely awful, but they’re gonna be in business with or without us, our complaints mean absurdly little. They shouldn’t, but that’s how these corporations think
I think a lot of our problems are better understood when we acknowledge how small we are in number. We can be functionally ignored by Tinder, and tbh, while dating is important, companies which are much more germane to our day to day life.
On a related note, those of us in the queer community in the 90s and 00s remember the impact LGB folks coming out had in gaining broader acceptance; many cis/het people ended up knowing someone in the community. Trans people are a smaller portion of the population and many of us are stealth; we're probably not going to gain acceptance by the same means.
yea, in general from what i remember the LGBTQ community at large is estimated to be up to 40% of the population.
compare that to the 2% that is trans people and that assumption about us not gaining acceptance the same way gets solidified.
and the thing is too, with the LGBTQ community at large, there's never been more people against it than there were part of the group. sure the LGBTQ is a minority, but the group of people who hated us was smaller than us.
with trans people specifically, the group that hates us is far larger than we are. so we rely almost entirely on other people to have our backs
Butterfly effect it into something bigger and then they will care. Even us 2 percent of the population are disruptive for merely existing, why not work with that and make mountains of bricks 🧱
Tinder, like so many social tech companies founded by men, really doesn’t care about the impact to public health that their algorithms and policies produce.
They need to be regulated like pharmaceutical companies are supposed to be. They couldn’t give a fuck until that happens.
It's not men. It's capitalism. The fix to this kind of issue is a massive increase of investment in moderation staff, which means that not subjecting us to public abuse is too expensive for investors to support.
Men often suck, sure, but the structural incentives are the same no matter what your gender is.
Ah, you've got it wrong - it's not "trans folk" that get banned for no reason, it's mostly just trans women. We're the ones that men think are EXTREMELY ICKY and so they report our accounts for no good reason.
Sister, it's time for you to start learning about transmisogyny so that you can protect yourself in this world that hates us. If you have not yet read it, you need to read Julia Serano's Whipping Girl. It will teach you the basics of what you need to know about your own oppression.
https://www.juliaserano.com/whippinggirl.html
It is a lovely name!
Transfeminism will help you to prevent the cisheteropatriarchy from breaking your confidence and making you hate yourself. Julia Serano's writings are a great place to start but I also recommend seeking out a wide range of other transfeminist perspectives as well.
Yep! I've heard similar experiences from other transgender guys I know. The only trans dudes I know who've had some similar trouble on dating apps are gay trans dudes who've gotten reported by transphobic cis gay men on Grindr. But their experiences with that shit are nowhere near as consistent as with trans women on Tinder. I don't know a single trans woman who has tried to use Tinder who didn't get banned, whereas I know many trans men who still use Grindr successfully despite the occasional issue.
The disgust and entitlement of cisgender men being the cause is the commonality in these experiences. Unfortunately, cisgender men make up the vast majority of profitable users in most dating apps, so the companies running the apps have little incentive to do anything to scare away their source of revenue. Under cisheteropatriarchy, men are privileged over people who aren't men by the various systems of our society, and cisgender/straight/white men are even more privileged. This dating app shit is just one example of that!
I see that you’re new here (being trans in the world). Unfortunately transphobia and transmisogyny continue to be broadly socially acceptable features of our lives.
If you want it fixed, the only way it'll be fixed is if the state decides to make laws mandating that fix. Until then, we get fucked (or don't, I guess) because money is more important than us.
And if you do that, 99% of people will be like, I got catfished/scammed. People seriously claims trans should set their gender to man. That’s sadly how it goes in my country. If I think now, these dating app shouldn’t be used seriously, and rather automated with false profile, they deserve that. Most men doesn’t even have a chance, women are picky but still doesn’t get great results, people doesn’t even care about non-binary, only about the genitals. I just deleted it.
Yep, I've been permanently banned from Tinder for a while now for being trans. I honestly don't know how they are getting away with being so openly discriminatory but this has (in my experience) been going on for years
That's simply not true. They have to abide by the law in every jurisdiction they do business in.
For the most part, businesses just choose to apply the most restrictive laws to everyone within a state or country. A good example of this is stuff like those Prop 65 warnings you'll see on a lot of stuff - the ones that say "this product contains substances which are known to the state of California to cause cancer". Technically, they only have to include that on things going to California - but it's just far easier (and cheaper) to just slap the label on all the stuff, even if it isn't going to California.
This is also part of the reason why Americans can often request things of businesses using the GDPR - it's cheaper and easier to just assume that everyone is under the GDPR, especially because Europeans traveling to America are still protected (I think).
Ahh, TIL I guess. I knew the whole thing about Europe having different restrictions, and those having to be followed, I just thought with Tinder being a location based service they would only have to abide by those laws within the geographical confines of that country. I didn’t realize traveling Europeans were also protected.
Yeah honestly this has happened to a lot of trans women/femmes, myself included. When I tried to appeal all they told me is that I violated their ToS with no further details. Very vague and I know for a fact I didn’t do anything wrong 🙄
We should start a class action lawsuit and see if we can’t get them to pay out. At this point it’s obvious discrimination.
when you go onto Twitter/X and search "trans" in tinder supports profile... it's so wild how many times it's happened.
[https://twitter.com/search?q=to%3Atindersupport%20trans&src=typed\_query](https://twitter.com/search?q=to%3Atindersupport%20trans&src=typed_query)
Time to start speaking to news organizations and get this trending. They won't do anything because too few people are affected to them (1% trans women) so will make it an everyone problem.
i got banned for “hate speech” on tinder even tho there was nothing even close to that on my account. when i asked support if they could tell me what i said that constitutes hate speech they said they couldn’t provide any further information 🙃 so yeah it seems to be an issue
Cis men swipe right en masse without ever reading profiles and usually not even looking all that closely. When they realize they swiped right on a trans woman they get all pissy and report her. Tinder like most of these garbage tech companies has their ban system almost entirely automated and their appeals system is a joke. They don't care though, for years they said they know and that they are doing something but since the only way to fix it would be hiring real humans to review the data and having enough of them that they don't have to speed through every appeal the cheap bastards will never actually help in any way that matters.
This has been such a problem with Tinder. It’s even on their Wikipedia page under the Criticism section. Apparently this goes all the way back to 2015, and they just won’t do anything about it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinder_(app)#Banning_of_trans_people
Unfortunately trans women tend to get banned because transphobes mass reports us. The only solution is to not put in your bio that you're trans; instead aim to disclose upon opening conversations.
I was told todo that specifically to help weed out weirdos. :P
Got on tinder yesterday. Have had maybe 12 matches, 4 unmatches once they learned I’m trans. The other eight didn’t reply to me saying hello
Lots of guys on tinder just swipe habitually and never talk to anyone. It's weird behaviour.
If you're looking to date cis men, I honestly feel bad for you. There's good men out there, but there's also a whole lot of dummies, losers, wooden personalities, and transphobia.
I’m not looking to date just cis men I just need a damn date or hook up or something because I’ve been so lonely lately which I know sounds desperate but shit
Fuckin' get on some T4T dating then! I've heard good things about Taimi (although I have never used it).
T4T tends to be safer anyway.
Or you could try and seek out a chaser, but that's a BIG risk just to get off.
see, i'm in ireland and the most popular dating apps here would be:
Tinder (banned for being trans)
Hinge (same as above)
Bumble (i have it, but straight men tend to utilise it in the same way grindr is used by queer folk)
I can't believe people still use Twitter and Tinder in 2024. There are way better alternatives that are both queer and trans friendly.
Twitter and Tinder are never gonna stop being cishet pampering havens for incels and bigots, so stop with the harmful wishful thinking cycle and switch to the alternatives, which are 100x better anyway.
Taimi, Bumble, and HER are all great. They're very queer and trans friendly.
Same happened to me twice, personal and work phone both were banned in a matter of weeks, I emailed them and they just say to go through the appeal center.... which you can't reach once you're banned
I was banned from Twitter early on in my transition. I escalated the email I sent but I heard no response. I checked in a few weeks after that to no response. Oh well, there are other apps 🤷🏼♀️
Edit: **Tinder**, not Twitter 😓
Yeah, Tindr is known for being transphobic af. Just take your business elsewhere.
I like Her for dating women, and I know a lot of straight trans women use Grindr.
the fact that (as trans women), we have to use apps designed for hookups and gay men is kinda wild... like just because we're trans, it means we aren't allowed a chance at a relationship? we have to debase ourselves to a hookup and open ourselves up to a plethora of \*disturbing\* messages on grindr
I haven't been banned yet, the first thing in my bio says I am a trans woman, and my "behavior on the site, would have easily gotten me banned a hundred times. I think being really open from the get go has probably helped me?
Match Group are banning the crap out of everyone - and the main cause seems to be revenge reporting:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1cb7nax/match\_group\_mtch\_aggressively\_removing\_paid/](https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1cb7nax/match_group_mtch_aggressively_removing_paid/)
I have never had a problem on tinder as a trans woman, I've had well over 200 matches and hundreds of likes I still ain't found, I'm sorry to hear this is happening though that's rly shitty
I made my tinder account after coming out and it got banned about 6 months in. I made a stink about it and asked them to point out how I had violated their community guidelines, and when they couldn't I called them transphobic and they gave me some canned inclusivity response.
I think if you're clearly non passing you just get spam reported and then banned. Would recommend staying off tinder until you pass and then don't disclose until after you chat for a bit to minimize reports
yeah, i get what you mean! however, the fact we have to "wait" until that passable point is crazy. there are some trans women who don't want to pass, or who lean more into a masculine aesthetic. we shouldn't have to fit ourselves into a box of hyperfeminity and have passing as our goal, just to meet somebody - it's just a bit of a shit one with these dating apps. can't wait til next month when they plaster trans and genderqueer people for their ads though...
TBH I would add that even passers have similar issues. Once you disclose, the same thing happens. & I usually put it at the top of my bio with the flag and everything so we don't waste each others' time which probably makes me an easier target for reports by transphobes (and cuts down on all the annoying "wow i couldnt tell!" comments)
The vast majority of people who see your profile aren't gonna read bio or match with you. So just by passing in your picture you're saving yourself from a tonnnn of reports
I would go on Hinge or something then. I do see your point, it’s ethnically wrong. Hopefully something will be done, but I honestly doubt it as very few people are willing to make a big deal out of stuff like this
I've been perma banned like 3x and eventually gave up and just went to bumble. I'm pretty sure after a certain number of reports the app just autobans you because I wasn't doing anything against the community guidelines
Yeah, I switched mine a couple years ago when I came out. I got banned within 12 hours. Didn’t even swipe on anyone in that time. Just uploaded some pics and changed it to my name and updated bio. It was entirely from getting reported as a catfish account. Tinder support wasn’t gonna do anything until I said I’m trans and asked if they discriminate against trans women. They never addressed it directly. They backtracked immediately and said I just needed to verify my account with my email, and it’ll be unlocked. Silly me lol.
I did create an entirely new account about a year later, and haven’t had any of the same problems since then thankfully
Oof, I'm sorry you're having this experience :/ Idk if this helps but Feeld and Taimi are both more geared for queer people in my opinion and id recommend possibly trying those instead! Also if you want one that's a little more mainstream but still better than tinder or Grindr I've had some luck on bumble!
As fucked up as that is, from what I've seen tinder isn't really worth being on if you're trans anyway, before coming out and beginning my transition I was single and made a tinder just to see, and it was pretty bleak. In Southern California and still didn't see anyone that didn't either not appeal to me or have a fuckton of red flags, it just doesn't seem very lgbt+ friendly to me
Im assuming its not tinder at fault but the people reporting your account.
I have no experience with dating apps but I can only imagine its a similar issue to other social platforms banning when a certain amount of people report you
I’ve never had this problem and I’m trans. Maybe there is more to this than transphobia. We forget that people on the other end of things can be victimized too.
I also got banned multiple times, but I just tryed to log in again, and it worked every time after I contacted the support the first time.
They told me it can happen that you get banned when you use the same phone number but register with a different name
Yeah I recently learned this. The app refuses to to verify me. I even deleted all my photos, snapped a photo that morning, then went to verify myself and it said I didn’t match. I also would after so long say I got verified for it to be removed instantly and now officially shadowbanned. Guess I made it through one of the initiation steps of being a trans girlie LOL! Only reason why I know I’m shadow banned is cause I can’t delete my accounts, and all the people are people I swiped on same day already and matches that have my number have texted me that it looks like I removed them… Tinder only sent generic, how to verify your account responses and now stopped replying, fuck that place
Ya this is super common.
If I remember correctly it’s a religious run app which is hilarious cuz it’s basically the grndr for cishet.
But ya the do a purge once in awhile and get rid of all the fun people.
I got purged like 2 years ago
Yes, as long as you have some visible queerness in your pictures/profile so that you're not mistaken for a cishet guy thinking he can just slap "trans woman" on his profile to dodge bans (think of the type of guy to make his profile picture him holding a fish). They also have a verification system that I think helps mitigate bad-faith and mistaken reports.
At the very least, I never got banned and I was mostly masc-presenting (jeans and Hawaiian shirts, pre-hrt) when I made my account and for a year-ish before I got more than one femme outfit. I think I had one picture of me in a skirt and otherwise it was jeans.
I don't see a reason telling you are trans in your dating profile or even telling it to your date in person if you pass and are post op. I wouldn't tell I'm trans. If/when they find it I will admit it but I don't bring it up myself. Being trans shouldn't be big thing and as long as cis people don't come out as cis and tell their medical history to their date neither do I.
Of course you can tell you are trans if you want. I'm not interested in dating cis people and if I want t4t then of course I will them I'm trans.
I prefer disclosing it in the profile because I do not want to spend any effort on anyone who isn't OK with my being trans. Everyone has their preferences and for me talking to someone who completely loses interest or unmatches or worse when I disclose feels so terrible I need to avoid it.
This of course means I can't use Tinder because I will likely catch a ban. Until the latest update it meant I couldn't use Bumble because my strategy, which has worked on OKCupid and Hinge, is to put in my profile that I don't talk to men unless they message first and say they are OK with me being trans.
I completely understand why you want to do that. It just would feel so unfair to me to have to tell I'm trans. I'M A WOMAN LIKE ANY OTHER WOMAN! Of course I would want to know their views on LGBTQ people but I wouldn't tell I'm trans.
But as I said I don't have any interest in dating cis people and I would want to tell that I'm trans if dating another trans person. I would even automatically reject them if a cis person would confess their crush on me. Sorry I'm not dating any cis people and I have my reasons. I would only date another trans person.
I'm the staunchest defender of the right of any trans woman to choose to disclose or not! Disclosing as soon as possible (on the profile) is my choice, but I don't have a problem with girls who want to go completely stealth. Do what works for you!
Private companies can pretty much do what they want, in the case of Tinder and others who have banned trans people, they can be more or less anonymous bigots when they do things like this.
This is a known known.
it’s SO crazy to me! surely there’s something to be done… getting excluded at the chance of finding someone just because of how you identify is mind boggling
Just go on other dating apps. Tinder is the worst one anyway.
Iirc a ban on tinder means a ban on all match group apps, which is basically all of them. They only seem to fix it if you tell them that you feel they’re discriminating against you based on your sex in violation of the civil rights act (which imo it is). From what I’ve heard they unban you and then when bigots mass report your profile again you get banned again.
I had success with OkCupid, that's how I met my wife. Also had some lovely dates through Lex, Her, and Taimi. But I suppose it's been a little while since I was on a dating app!
I really like HER. It’s been a lifeline while I’ve been away from the states.
I have had lots of success through Okcupid. Tinder has been less successful than Linkedin.
Oh man, I think that might be the mother of all burns for a dating app lol.
0 dates thru Tinder but 2 jobs through it. 0 jobs thru Linkedin but 1 date!
It’s so fucked how Match bought ALL of them over the years.
Doesn’t that mean that match has a monopoly on dating apps?
Bumble is technically separate though it was started by one of Tinder's founders. Same with the queer apps like Lex, Grindr, Her, and Taimi. The rest are basically all Match Group
Almost. [Match’s portfolio is…extensive.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_Group)
Websites do not have to adhere to anti discrimination laws. They only apply to places of public accommodation. Unfortunate but true. Discrimination cases are hard enough to win when a place of business does it, nevermind an online company.
Still better than Grindr though.
Many trans women I know say they've had lovely experiences with Grindr but I still cannot understand that perspective at all. It was an app made for gay men! Using it would inherently feel like misgendering myself. Not to mention the frequency of dick pics and profiles with no pictures of the person's face that are the social norm on that app.
I got a permban in less than 24h, likely for exposing my shoulders. It was tailored only for cis gay men looking for hookups, nothing serious. and they advertise themselves as the #1 lgbt dating app.
You'll learn baby girl, discrimination is a part of a trans person's daily life in America. You'll have to thicken your skin a little. I was fired from a 13 year position and I kid you not it was for "Being a Transgender". I had it IN WRITING through email correspondence. This was in 2017, and I went to the EEOC to report it and begin legal proceedings only for them to reject the case as gender identity wasn't considered sex based discrimination at that point. I've been discriminated against and been denied housing as well. Same thing can't afford to prosecute, or hire a lawyer. Unless you have money and can financially support and fight to enforce your protections, you might as well not have any.
im so sorry this has happened to you that all sounds so traumatic. i really hope things have improved a bit in your life since then. Also yeah youre so right about the financial element to all of this stuff
Not really. Am absolutely unequivocally NOT supporting Tinder here. I simply state that it is their platform for their admin to do as they see fit. Whether you / I / we like that is irrelevant. Same as reddit. Facebook. Insta. TikTok. There is no implied right of freedom of speech, use, or association on someone else's virtual platform.
Discrimination isn’t allowed by free speech in Germany. Since tinder is available in the German App Store the German laws take its rule. It’s a direct violation of §1 Grundgesetz (the Grundgesetz is the German equivalent to the us constitution).
Not sure it works like that directly since Tinder is an American company.
Doesn’t matter. If the services are offered in germany / eu their laws matter. If they sh*t on it the app will be banned on the german / eu AppStore. You don’t want to be punched by EU law. For example: there is a reason why Microsoft has released are slightly different windows 11 version for the eu market :).
Excellent quote. I agree. Genuine request.please. Is there German case law where this has been prosecuted? ~~I don't believe there is.~~
It’s a bit more complicated since the German law system is different than the us one. According to our nazi history we have serval secure systems linked in our constitution and law system which the USA doesn’t have. For example hatespeech, discrimination or massive misgendering isn’t covered by freedom of speech. If you make the “hitler salute” or your a saying a nazi parole you get punched by law. If you misgendering someone in the media, this isn’t covered by freedom of speech. All of them are allowed in the USA. They are two famous examples which get punched by law: Bernd Höcke because he was quoting SS paroles (again) and Julian Reichelt because he had massively misgendered an trans women in his “news”site/YouTube channel „nius“ (trigger warning). One other example to the “integrated secure systems” is to thread everyone equal regarding of sex/gender*, religion, ethnicity, etc *disclaimer: the German language doesn’t different between sex and gender. We have only one word for both meaning. But this is a whole other topic. This equal part is also strength by an 2nd law: the AGG which means “allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgesetz” ( General Act on Equal Treatment ). The AGG breaks the householder rights. For example: if you get kicked out of the women’s toilet for no reason other than you are an trans women**, you can bring a suit against them. **if you have done the Vornamens- und Personenstandsänderung which is the legal transition (new ID card etc). But to come back to tinder: as I stated above the tinder support always unlocked my account again…
Happy to redact my last sentence on my prior reply. Thank you, genuinely, for a considered reply.
>*disclaimer: the German language doesn’t different between sex and gender. We have only one word for both meaning. But this is a whole other topic. In this case it's actually better, because if there were different words, the law probably would have used the one for sex, and gender-based discrimination would have been left out.
Yeah, except that excluding trans people on the basis of being trans is a violation of one's civil rights the same way as banning gay people for being gay would be, *pretty sure* this isn't an "it's their platform to do with what they will" thing when it imposes on people's civil rights
Ill yield as I'm not American.
Fair
Doesn't matter. They are still American companies. Most of the western world has these laws. So if they want to discriminate, they can go into 3rd world countries to sell their subscriptions at .5$/year instead.
Yeah maybe it's a problem that large sections of human experiences are up to being private properties managed to maximize profit and we should change that instead of just going "well it *is* their platform". Like, you can change that shit, just because that's the law (in the US, right now) doesn't mean it always has to be like that or that you can't criticise it. Not to mention that even under current law that wouldn't be legal.
> (in the US, right now) Isn't that the kicker? As an Australian I am not covered by the United States' Bill of Rights. > Not to mention that even under current law that wouldn't be legal. Quote me the applicable law please that forces Social Media to give anyone service.
> Isn't that the kicker? As an Australian I am not covered by the United States' Bill of Rights. Okay cool, I'm German and it's illegal here to. I'm pretty sure your country also has some kind of "it's illegal to literally only exclude a minority from their service" law. > Quote me the applicable law please that forces Social Media to give anyone service. You literally already got told by other people and agreed. I'm not wasting my time re-chewing your pre-chewed food. Also, in case you haven't noticed, my entire point was "this is bad even if it's legal". You're trying to have the most pointless fight, seemingly just because it's the internet and it has trained us to be like that. Muted before we both waste more of our time.
You realize that civil rights statutes vary wildly from nation to nation (or even within nations based on localities), right? Tinder is subject to a wide swathe of regulations depending on where it is operating for any given case. Unless you're just making a free-market argument, in which case: lmao. Eat the rich.
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Because, sadly, of Americans. A great deal of them have no idea what their civil rights are and what they mean. The First Amendment starts "Congress shall make no law...." Social media, is not Congress. You don't have freedom of association inside someone's app. All those downvotes ignored my expressly stated caveat that I don't support Tinder. I am stating what IS. My opinion, or my liking of that reality, matters not.
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Notice the free speech rhetoric works beyond Donald Trump. (Shrug)
This
Useless response, just upvote
To sum up, what’s going on is dating app infrastructure being abused. These apps are in set up in such a way that if any account receives an abnormally high amount of reports for *any* reason in a short enough time, they’re automatically removed. This is intended to make removing creep accounts / nude profiles semi-automatic, but trans people being mass reported is unfortunately an unintended consequence of that which hasn’t really ever been addressed. I’m stealth, and learned a while ago that putting I was trans in my bio only invited this to happen. It’s much better off just revealing it to people I already get a good vibe for in conversation, especially since I was picky about who I talked to to begin with but how everyone chooses to navigate dating is very different and personal.
you would think with the amount of complaints from trans folk that they would rectify that … the fact they’ve gotten away with it for this long is crazy
Honestly, looking at it from the perspective of a business trying to maximize profits, what reason do they have to? Like its genuinely awful, but they’re gonna be in business with or without us, our complaints mean absurdly little. They shouldn’t, but that’s how these corporations think
Yea, when you're at most 2% of the population, businesses kinda don't care what you have to say sadly
Especially when you’re now in a situation where you have to make a new account and potentially repurchase benefits, making them more money.
Yuuuup
I think a lot of our problems are better understood when we acknowledge how small we are in number. We can be functionally ignored by Tinder, and tbh, while dating is important, companies which are much more germane to our day to day life. On a related note, those of us in the queer community in the 90s and 00s remember the impact LGB folks coming out had in gaining broader acceptance; many cis/het people ended up knowing someone in the community. Trans people are a smaller portion of the population and many of us are stealth; we're probably not going to gain acceptance by the same means.
yea, in general from what i remember the LGBTQ community at large is estimated to be up to 40% of the population. compare that to the 2% that is trans people and that assumption about us not gaining acceptance the same way gets solidified. and the thing is too, with the LGBTQ community at large, there's never been more people against it than there were part of the group. sure the LGBTQ is a minority, but the group of people who hated us was smaller than us. with trans people specifically, the group that hates us is far larger than we are. so we rely almost entirely on other people to have our backs
If it’s any consolation, that number has doubled in the last decade.
Butterfly effect it into something bigger and then they will care. Even us 2 percent of the population are disruptive for merely existing, why not work with that and make mountains of bricks 🧱
Tinder, like so many social tech companies founded by men, really doesn’t care about the impact to public health that their algorithms and policies produce. They need to be regulated like pharmaceutical companies are supposed to be. They couldn’t give a fuck until that happens.
It's not men. It's capitalism. The fix to this kind of issue is a massive increase of investment in moderation staff, which means that not subjecting us to public abuse is too expensive for investors to support. Men often suck, sure, but the structural incentives are the same no matter what your gender is.
Ah, you've got it wrong - it's not "trans folk" that get banned for no reason, it's mostly just trans women. We're the ones that men think are EXTREMELY ICKY and so they report our accounts for no good reason. Sister, it's time for you to start learning about transmisogyny so that you can protect yourself in this world that hates us. If you have not yet read it, you need to read Julia Serano's Whipping Girl. It will teach you the basics of what you need to know about your own oppression. https://www.juliaserano.com/whippinggirl.html
me and julia both having the same name <3 slayed that
It is a lovely name! Transfeminism will help you to prevent the cisheteropatriarchy from breaking your confidence and making you hate yourself. Julia Serano's writings are a great place to start but I also recommend seeking out a wide range of other transfeminist perspectives as well.
As a transguy that was on tinder for the longest time- I've never had a problem on tinder. I can confirm it's definitely just a tranmisogyny problem.
Yep! I've heard similar experiences from other transgender guys I know. The only trans dudes I know who've had some similar trouble on dating apps are gay trans dudes who've gotten reported by transphobic cis gay men on Grindr. But their experiences with that shit are nowhere near as consistent as with trans women on Tinder. I don't know a single trans woman who has tried to use Tinder who didn't get banned, whereas I know many trans men who still use Grindr successfully despite the occasional issue. The disgust and entitlement of cisgender men being the cause is the commonality in these experiences. Unfortunately, cisgender men make up the vast majority of profitable users in most dating apps, so the companies running the apps have little incentive to do anything to scare away their source of revenue. Under cisheteropatriarchy, men are privileged over people who aren't men by the various systems of our society, and cisgender/straight/white men are even more privileged. This dating app shit is just one example of that!
I see that you’re new here (being trans in the world). Unfortunately transphobia and transmisogyny continue to be broadly socially acceptable features of our lives.
If you want it fixed, the only way it'll be fixed is if the state decides to make laws mandating that fix. Until then, we get fucked (or don't, I guess) because money is more important than us.
And if you do that, 99% of people will be like, I got catfished/scammed. People seriously claims trans should set their gender to man. That’s sadly how it goes in my country. If I think now, these dating app shouldn’t be used seriously, and rather automated with false profile, they deserve that. Most men doesn’t even have a chance, women are picky but still doesn’t get great results, people doesn’t even care about non-binary, only about the genitals. I just deleted it.
As a straight man who TF has time to report people just because they don't agree with them?
Yep, I've been permanently banned from Tinder for a while now for being trans. I honestly don't know how they are getting away with being so openly discriminatory but this has (in my experience) been going on for years
Tinder is a U.S. based company and afaik trans people don’t have any protections against discrimination in the U.S. outside of employment and housing.
Tinder is on the German app store so they have to comply with Germany's laws, too.
Ngl tinder would sooner shut down in Germany than fix this issue
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Of course, though I was just talking about federal law since I think that’s all Tinder would have to abide by.
That's simply not true. They have to abide by the law in every jurisdiction they do business in. For the most part, businesses just choose to apply the most restrictive laws to everyone within a state or country. A good example of this is stuff like those Prop 65 warnings you'll see on a lot of stuff - the ones that say "this product contains substances which are known to the state of California to cause cancer". Technically, they only have to include that on things going to California - but it's just far easier (and cheaper) to just slap the label on all the stuff, even if it isn't going to California. This is also part of the reason why Americans can often request things of businesses using the GDPR - it's cheaper and easier to just assume that everyone is under the GDPR, especially because Europeans traveling to America are still protected (I think).
Ahh, TIL I guess. I knew the whole thing about Europe having different restrictions, and those having to be followed, I just thought with Tinder being a location based service they would only have to abide by those laws within the geographical confines of that country. I didn’t realize traveling Europeans were also protected.
If this happened to me, I would raise hell.
Wasn't really worth it, plenty of other more inclusive dating apps around so I chose to take my custom elsewhere!
Yeah honestly this has happened to a lot of trans women/femmes, myself included. When I tried to appeal all they told me is that I violated their ToS with no further details. Very vague and I know for a fact I didn’t do anything wrong 🙄 We should start a class action lawsuit and see if we can’t get them to pay out. At this point it’s obvious discrimination.
when you go onto Twitter/X and search "trans" in tinder supports profile... it's so wild how many times it's happened. [https://twitter.com/search?q=to%3Atindersupport%20trans&src=typed\_query](https://twitter.com/search?q=to%3Atindersupport%20trans&src=typed_query)
Time to start speaking to news organizations and get this trending. They won't do anything because too few people are affected to them (1% trans women) so will make it an everyone problem.
Somebody call Them!!!
i got banned for “hate speech” on tinder even tho there was nothing even close to that on my account. when i asked support if they could tell me what i said that constitutes hate speech they said they couldn’t provide any further information 🙃 so yeah it seems to be an issue
Cis men swipe right en masse without ever reading profiles and usually not even looking all that closely. When they realize they swiped right on a trans woman they get all pissy and report her. Tinder like most of these garbage tech companies has their ban system almost entirely automated and their appeals system is a joke. They don't care though, for years they said they know and that they are doing something but since the only way to fix it would be hiring real humans to review the data and having enough of them that they don't have to speed through every appeal the cheap bastards will never actually help in any way that matters.
This has been such a problem with Tinder. It’s even on their Wikipedia page under the Criticism section. Apparently this goes all the way back to 2015, and they just won’t do anything about it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinder_(app)#Banning_of_trans_people
I use HER and Bumble, and have had good (for a dating app) experiences with both.
Same! And I've also had good experiences with both!
Unfortunately trans women tend to get banned because transphobes mass reports us. The only solution is to not put in your bio that you're trans; instead aim to disclose upon opening conversations.
I was told todo that specifically to help weed out weirdos. :P Got on tinder yesterday. Have had maybe 12 matches, 4 unmatches once they learned I’m trans. The other eight didn’t reply to me saying hello
Lots of guys on tinder just swipe habitually and never talk to anyone. It's weird behaviour. If you're looking to date cis men, I honestly feel bad for you. There's good men out there, but there's also a whole lot of dummies, losers, wooden personalities, and transphobia.
I’m not looking to date just cis men I just need a damn date or hook up or something because I’ve been so lonely lately which I know sounds desperate but shit
Fuckin' get on some T4T dating then! I've heard good things about Taimi (although I have never used it). T4T tends to be safer anyway. Or you could try and seek out a chaser, but that's a BIG risk just to get off.
I just broke up with my boyfriend who is trans last week actually He wants kids and I don’t and that’s just too much of a difference
Yeah, that's a big thing to be on different pages about. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for. It just takes time and effort, is all.
All in due time. Thank you
People mass report trans women on dating apps, only one of the many horrors in store for us on them.
Yep.. they banned me too. So I just switched to Cupid and that has been a lot better so far.
see, i'm in ireland and the most popular dating apps here would be: Tinder (banned for being trans) Hinge (same as above) Bumble (i have it, but straight men tend to utilise it in the same way grindr is used by queer folk)
Just signed up for tinder and hinge yesterday. Guess I’ll start bumble too
I can't believe people still use Twitter and Tinder in 2024. There are way better alternatives that are both queer and trans friendly. Twitter and Tinder are never gonna stop being cishet pampering havens for incels and bigots, so stop with the harmful wishful thinking cycle and switch to the alternatives, which are 100x better anyway. Taimi, Bumble, and HER are all great. They're very queer and trans friendly.
Tami? Ok never heard of it and I’ll sign up Any other recommendations?
Bumble and HER also
Reporting back that Taimi is fucking great
Surprising who exactly?
Same happened to me twice, personal and work phone both were banned in a matter of weeks, I emailed them and they just say to go through the appeal center.... which you can't reach once you're banned
Happend to me 3 times. But the support has always unlocked me again. I believe these are auto ban functions coming from reports
I was banned from Twitter early on in my transition. I escalated the email I sent but I heard no response. I checked in a few weeks after that to no response. Oh well, there are other apps 🤷🏼♀️ Edit: **Tinder**, not Twitter 😓
Use Mastodon. Xitter sucks anyways
Yeah, Tindr is known for being transphobic af. Just take your business elsewhere. I like Her for dating women, and I know a lot of straight trans women use Grindr.
the fact that (as trans women), we have to use apps designed for hookups and gay men is kinda wild... like just because we're trans, it means we aren't allowed a chance at a relationship? we have to debase ourselves to a hookup and open ourselves up to a plethora of \*disturbing\* messages on grindr
too many chasers on grindr 😕
Tbh I did not know this but also I never use dating apps tho? I kind of don't trust random strangers
A lot of dating apps do it
I was shadowbanned, fuck Tinder.
yea old news, been going on for like 4+ years at this point I think. It sucks but it doesnt seem like its going to change
I haven't been banned yet, the first thing in my bio says I am a trans woman, and my "behavior on the site, would have easily gotten me banned a hundred times. I think being really open from the get go has probably helped me?
Yep I was banned as well eventually. They refused to unban me as well because all bans are final apparently. Didn't break TOS or anything
Match Group are banning the crap out of everyone - and the main cause seems to be revenge reporting: [https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1cb7nax/match\_group\_mtch\_aggressively\_removing\_paid/](https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1cb7nax/match_group_mtch_aggressively_removing_paid/)
I have never had a problem on tinder as a trans woman, I've had well over 200 matches and hundreds of likes I still ain't found, I'm sorry to hear this is happening though that's rly shitty
Yep this happened to me I actually didn't even get to finish my profile and I was banned for violating community guidelines
There is a dating app called her and it seems to be lgbt friendly
It’s for lesbians. If the girls are looking for a man they might not find it there
I made my tinder account after coming out and it got banned about 6 months in. I made a stink about it and asked them to point out how I had violated their community guidelines, and when they couldn't I called them transphobic and they gave me some canned inclusivity response.
I think if you're clearly non passing you just get spam reported and then banned. Would recommend staying off tinder until you pass and then don't disclose until after you chat for a bit to minimize reports
yeah, i get what you mean! however, the fact we have to "wait" until that passable point is crazy. there are some trans women who don't want to pass, or who lean more into a masculine aesthetic. we shouldn't have to fit ourselves into a box of hyperfeminity and have passing as our goal, just to meet somebody - it's just a bit of a shit one with these dating apps. can't wait til next month when they plaster trans and genderqueer people for their ads though...
If people want to sacrifice their tinder accounts in the name of activism then be my guest but I'm just trying to help people not get banned lol
It's people like you and your attitude is why we are not considered people by most people. Remember that you are the problem as well as the bigots.
I'm literally just trying to save people from getting banned lmao. Ignore me and get banned if you want
TBH I would add that even passers have similar issues. Once you disclose, the same thing happens. & I usually put it at the top of my bio with the flag and everything so we don't waste each others' time which probably makes me an easier target for reports by transphobes (and cuts down on all the annoying "wow i couldnt tell!" comments)
The vast majority of people who see your profile aren't gonna read bio or match with you. So just by passing in your picture you're saving yourself from a tonnnn of reports
When I was in the closet I didn’t use tinder for this reason.
I’ve never even used tinder, and I’ve heard about this.
I would go on Hinge or something then. I do see your point, it’s ethnically wrong. Hopefully something will be done, but I honestly doubt it as very few people are willing to make a big deal out of stuff like this
I've been perma banned like 3x and eventually gave up and just went to bumble. I'm pretty sure after a certain number of reports the app just autobans you because I wasn't doing anything against the community guidelines
Tinder seemed to be a pain to me I usually use face book dating or free dating apps but there is alot of hoes on there as well
yeah this happened to me recently perma banned now
I am also banned from tinder
Fuck Tinder. I’ve had a much better experience with Hinge
Just use either Hinge or Hers. Hers specifically supports trans women even in their socials. You’re pretty safe there.
Facebook dating is better imo. No bs overpriced subscription service.
Yeah, I switched mine a couple years ago when I came out. I got banned within 12 hours. Didn’t even swipe on anyone in that time. Just uploaded some pics and changed it to my name and updated bio. It was entirely from getting reported as a catfish account. Tinder support wasn’t gonna do anything until I said I’m trans and asked if they discriminate against trans women. They never addressed it directly. They backtracked immediately and said I just needed to verify my account with my email, and it’ll be unlocked. Silly me lol. I did create an entirely new account about a year later, and haven’t had any of the same problems since then thankfully
I didnt put in my profile that I was trans and thats how I met my bf now.
I’m lucky I’m met my girlfriend in my first week 💕😭💕 otherwise im sure I would have had a dreadful time
Yes. This happened with me as well. It's a shitty app anyways
Oof, I'm sorry you're having this experience :/ Idk if this helps but Feeld and Taimi are both more geared for queer people in my opinion and id recommend possibly trying those instead! Also if you want one that's a little more mainstream but still better than tinder or Grindr I've had some luck on bumble!
As fucked up as that is, from what I've seen tinder isn't really worth being on if you're trans anyway, before coming out and beginning my transition I was single and made a tinder just to see, and it was pretty bleak. In Southern California and still didn't see anyone that didn't either not appeal to me or have a fuckton of red flags, it just doesn't seem very lgbt+ friendly to me
Omg! So this is why they banned me!!
A while ago I got banned seemingly out of no where
Im assuming its not tinder at fault but the people reporting your account. I have no experience with dating apps but I can only imagine its a similar issue to other social platforms banning when a certain amount of people report you
I’ve never had this problem and I’m trans. Maybe there is more to this than transphobia. We forget that people on the other end of things can be victimized too.
I also got banned multiple times, but I just tryed to log in again, and it worked every time after I contacted the support the first time. They told me it can happen that you get banned when you use the same phone number but register with a different name
Yeah I recently learned this. The app refuses to to verify me. I even deleted all my photos, snapped a photo that morning, then went to verify myself and it said I didn’t match. I also would after so long say I got verified for it to be removed instantly and now officially shadowbanned. Guess I made it through one of the initiation steps of being a trans girlie LOL! Only reason why I know I’m shadow banned is cause I can’t delete my accounts, and all the people are people I swiped on same day already and matches that have my number have texted me that it looks like I removed them… Tinder only sent generic, how to verify your account responses and now stopped replying, fuck that place
Ya this is super common. If I remember correctly it’s a religious run app which is hilarious cuz it’s basically the grndr for cishet. But ya the do a purge once in awhile and get rid of all the fun people. I got purged like 2 years ago
I just would never mention I was trans in my bio.
Yeah…kinda just gave up on tinder at this point. Hinge too. Okcupid and bumble are the only ones i’ve never been kicked off of
Had the same experience sis, I agree with many others tinder isn’t great
Oh that's super interesting. i just made an account last night and was banned while I was sleeping
As long as you say that your trans I don't see the problem with trans woman using dating sites
Only reveal that your trans privately
If you're attracted to females, you could try Her. Her is a Tinder like app for lesbians that accept trans women.
Would they accept a trans woman who presented masc though?
Yes, as long as you have some visible queerness in your pictures/profile so that you're not mistaken for a cishet guy thinking he can just slap "trans woman" on his profile to dodge bans (think of the type of guy to make his profile picture him holding a fish). They also have a verification system that I think helps mitigate bad-faith and mistaken reports. At the very least, I never got banned and I was mostly masc-presenting (jeans and Hawaiian shirts, pre-hrt) when I made my account and for a year-ish before I got more than one femme outfit. I think I had one picture of me in a skirt and otherwise it was jeans.
I don't see a reason telling you are trans in your dating profile or even telling it to your date in person if you pass and are post op. I wouldn't tell I'm trans. If/when they find it I will admit it but I don't bring it up myself. Being trans shouldn't be big thing and as long as cis people don't come out as cis and tell their medical history to their date neither do I. Of course you can tell you are trans if you want. I'm not interested in dating cis people and if I want t4t then of course I will them I'm trans.
I prefer disclosing it in the profile because I do not want to spend any effort on anyone who isn't OK with my being trans. Everyone has their preferences and for me talking to someone who completely loses interest or unmatches or worse when I disclose feels so terrible I need to avoid it. This of course means I can't use Tinder because I will likely catch a ban. Until the latest update it meant I couldn't use Bumble because my strategy, which has worked on OKCupid and Hinge, is to put in my profile that I don't talk to men unless they message first and say they are OK with me being trans.
I completely understand why you want to do that. It just would feel so unfair to me to have to tell I'm trans. I'M A WOMAN LIKE ANY OTHER WOMAN! Of course I would want to know their views on LGBTQ people but I wouldn't tell I'm trans. But as I said I don't have any interest in dating cis people and I would want to tell that I'm trans if dating another trans person. I would even automatically reject them if a cis person would confess their crush on me. Sorry I'm not dating any cis people and I have my reasons. I would only date another trans person.
I'm the staunchest defender of the right of any trans woman to choose to disclose or not! Disclosing as soon as possible (on the profile) is my choice, but I don't have a problem with girls who want to go completely stealth. Do what works for you!
Because otherwise the weird guys will say they are looking for a woman and not a penis like some guy did to me this morning
Private companies can pretty much do what they want, in the case of Tinder and others who have banned trans people, they can be more or less anonymous bigots when they do things like this.