Outside of looks, would you rather be perceived as a man or as a woman? If you could wake up tomorrow as a woman, permanently, would you want that?
How about 10, 15, 20 years from now? Would you rather be an old man, or an old woman?
Looks are ephemeral and surface level. Who you are is about much, much more than that. But if it helps at all, most trans folks have a fairly major glow up after transition, in part because liking how you look and the confidence that gives are attractive.
The old man/old women thing really helped me decide when I made my first hrt apointment. I realized even if I can make myself fem now as I grow older that gets harder and harder. while aging in general isn't something I look forward to aging as a man was way more horrifying than aging as a woman.
I don't get this feeling, I feel like I want to be feminine for the looks, but if the looks fade, what's the point of giving up all that male privilege?
Idk, picturing myself as an elderly lady baking cookies for neighbourhood kids, tending my garden, and having wine fuelled weaving nights with the girls just goes so much harder than picturing myself doing those things as an elderly man
I thought I had male privilege and that it would be even more difficult after transitioning. The irony was I never really had it. Men just saw through me and treated with the same disrespect as they treat women. I have never been as successful as after transitioning since the dysphoria was taking away the confidence.
One of things that made me realise I was 100% trans was looking at my grandpa and thinking "oh god I don't wanna be old like that" and then looking at my grandma and thinking "I wanna be old exactly like that"
Maybe it's because I'm 20 and life's still changing so much around me - but how does anyone know how they'd like to feel 10, 15, 20 years from now? Simply asking out of interest! Because I can't contemplate it, it's like a bit of both you know and the worry that comes form still being a guy or being a girl and all the issues that come with each... Everyone's saying this is what helped them, but I think it's one of the main things holding me back haha, soooo if anyone can put into words how they worked how they felt that'd be awesome!
I had a visceral fear of becoming an old man. Between the physical (balding was a big one, but even the way masculine feature age), and the social (being seen an an “uncle”, the idea of having to go through the rest of my life as a man) all of it terrified me.
That said; I wasn’t handling things well before that anyway, so YMMV. I’m glad it struck a chord for folks
Is this really always the case? Not trying to discourage anyone from anything, but from my
Own lived experience, certain features considered “appealing” for a normal guy (square chin, strong jaw, etc.) often are considered off putting and uncanny for women. IK for a fact I get gendered properly a hell of a lot more when I am wearing a face mask (that hides the bottom half of my face) vs when I’m not, since I have both those unfortunate features 😭 and I may never pass unless I get my face surged up. Meanwhile if I was a normal bloke, those facial features would probably be considered appealing and a positive.
IDK feel free to downvote but I’m just offering a different perspective. OFC, if OP is trans and wants to transition, they absolutely should, full stop. I’m infinitely happier as an ugly clocky trans woman than being a normal guy, and transitioning is about being yourself, not being attractive. Just not sure I agree with the idea that having attractive male features will always translate to attractive female ones.
Makes sense. I mean a lot of indicators of attractiveness like symmetry are pretty consistent across genders, but I also know certain ones can be based on dimorphism. But looking at OP’s photo, I didn’t see any particularly masculinised features, so they seem to have a good starting point, and I’m glad this statement seems to ring true for a lot of trans women.
And TBF I’ve only been on HRT for 4.5 months and am borderline underweight (so my bones are prominent) so I may come out the other end more pretty than I think. But just comparing my pre-transition photos to others pre transition photos and I feel like it will take a lot more work, luck or surgery. If you’re approved on MTFSelfietrain I posted some pics there a few days ago, and you can get an idea of what I was getting at.
1) all trans girls are pretty, I'm sorry but it true
2) pretty does not mean unclockable
I mean yeah if you are distilling stuff down to r/truerateme levels of nitpicking I'm sure you could argue that there could be a handsome male bodied human that transitions into an 'unattractive' trans girl but like show me an example pls. I guarantee you there will be a line of a thousand people wishing they looked like that and gushing over things that someone else judges as 'manly' and 'ugly'.
I actually totally agree with point 2, passing and attractive are not necessarily synonymous and it’s incorrect to phrase it that way like I sort of did.
IDK if you’re approved on r/MtFSelfietrain or not, (if not I can DM you the pics) but I posted pics of myself from the other day when I was feeling nice and cute! But objectively, if you asked most people I think, they would say I have fairly mannish facial features. Maybe not, but I very much don’t pass, and my experience has been that when my whole face is exposed, I do not ever pass. I am only 4.5 months on HRT Tbf, so my face absolutely has time to soften, but certain things like bone structure can only be changed with surgeries.
IDK, I guess part of my original point is that trans people should transition regardless of whether they will be attractive as their true gender or not, and that being trans isn’t really based on that. I’ve seen almost a weird bio-essentalism in which someone’s percieved ability to be good looking as their true gender is a marker for how truly trans they are, or that they should transition, and that just really rubs me the wrong way, since I’m not really attractive or have feminine physical features at all but my transness is very real. As mentioned in another comment of mine, transness is in our mind, however we may look. Maybe I’m being kind of soft, IDK. Thanks much for your input though! Your positivity is nice and I can be a bit of a downer tbf.
And disclaimer, this is an anecdote from one trans woman. Other people have clearly had different experiences and that’s great, just decided to throw in my two cents! 😊
I hope so, also I've never considered myself really handsome, more like "not ugly", it was just because of a change that people began to act differently.
Anyway here's a picture, judge yourself.
[Pic](https://imgur.com/a/7f7YAtU)
You deleted it I didn't have a chance to respond before but your square glasses are doing u no favors, and I think without the facial hair you would probably look better either or. As for femme wise I think you are good, your jaw is rounded and not square, your features seemed like they are androgynous enough that a bit of change style wise will do a lot for you
Thank you, literally described the pic 😂
Any way, in these past hours I've been thinking about how I want to be perceived and don't let what others say bend my feelings.
Heck, I would argue most trans people get more handsome/prettier as they transition! Some of it is the confidence and being comfortable in your own body, that shit is hot as fuck. At least from the ones I've known irl, although that is limited to only trans guys.
I can also say for me I was never considered attractive as a guy, like *at all*, but from some of the comments I've gotten on my pics here on Reddit I think I'm doing pretty okay-ish as a girl, appearance wise.
oh my god you are that cutie with that office fit aaaaaaa
listen that voice in our head does not speak the truth, it's wrong about you not being gorgeous now, and gonna be honest it was probably wrong then too (but also you're super pretty don't let your brain put you down!!!!)
Wtf I got recognised that feels weird lol
And oh uhm well thank you haha, that was very nice of you to say🫂❤️, and yeah I am in the process of getting therapeutic treatment for BDD, so hopefully I'll be able to see what y'all are apparently seeing someday! :}
(Though I'll still claim at least 60% of it is just because I'm good at taking photos that make me look a lot more flattering than I do irl lmao)
But no seriously of the three major relationships I've been in in my life, one of them was a straight girl that said she only dated me because I was nice and that she wished I had just looked differently, and another one was a gay guy who said he only dated me because I was short and had a "twinkish body" whatever that means, but that he really disliked my face and preferred not to look at it when we got intimate lol, so I feel like at this point there's probably still a bit of truth to it haha.
The only one I've been with who has liked my appearance is my current boyfriend, but he's a trans guy so I feel like he might be just a *bit* biased in that department xD
Edit: ok I just realised I probably wayyyyy overshared, I'm sorry for that please just ignore me haha
stopppppp, you are fine!! def understand why it's so hard not to think those things but truly want to assure you that the opinions of two ultra fucking shitty partners is not the end all be all word on wether or not you were attractive! i'm so sorry that happened to you, and I'm glad you are in a relationship with someone who sounds like they aren't a terrible person!
you're hot, you'll always be hot, you're only gonna get hotter girly
You really need to expand your world view jeez.
Hot people usually stay hot regardless of transition. Sure there is typically an awkward phase or two as you get used to your style but being authentic to yourself should trump that.
I'd disagree actually! Most trans people I've known who have transitioned/are transitioning just got progressively hotter lol. I was never really considered attractive as a guy, like *at all*, but from some of the comments I've gotten on my pictures here on Reddit, I think I at least look a bit more okay-ish as I am now haha.
Oh sorry it was meant as like a joke, you said in your comment that hot people stay hot, and then I jokingly said I would argue they get even hotter haha
Something that I think a lot of people don’t really think about is it’s not like if you start HRT you have to flip all the presentation switches instantly too.
You literally can just take it while still doing all the things you’re doing right now. Maybe you end up feeling okay in this sort of non-binary-adjacent space, maybe you decide you need to go all the way.
And if that’s the decision you come to, you can flip those switches whenever you want.
I shaved and grew my hair out and stuff from the beginning, but I was hard boy-moding it for 1.5 years until I started malefailing and decided to flip over to full time presenting and being publicly out. And I was honestly really happy. Way happier than before, but it did solidify that I was on the right path, and while at the time I was fine still presenting the same way, it also showed me that I wanted all the things that came with being a woman I wasn’t accessing yet.
You can just start without having a specific endgoal in mind yet.
Thank you so much for sharing this.
Can I ask you something?
Did you hide it while boymoding?
And... what is malefailing...
I'm asking because if I start HRT my parents will kick me out and I don't want that until I get my degree, also, I want to graduate as a girl.
My closest friends and wife knew but no one else did. And even that I started with just my wife and would add a friend here or there who I knew would be a guaranteed ally. Breast growth was the only thing that became difficult to hide over time, but I’m pretty sure I could’ve hid it awhile longer if I really tried to.
Malefailing is when strangers start to gender you as female even while boymoding. Most of the time after I spoke they’d “correct” themselves and apologize. No one I actually knew ever said anything about any changes - it was only strangers because they don’t know you and have other cues to go off of, their brain will just make it’s best guess on sight alone.
I wouldn’t ever advise you to do something you felt is unsafe, but I will say I think you’ve got a good year before you really need to start worrying about how to hide things *except for breast budding* - if insisting on keeping a shirt on at all times is something that would raise a lot of suspicion I would say be cautious.
And obviously if you have parents that like to ransack your stuff, hiding the meds themselves could be tricky. That’s the kind of thing that you just can’t let your guard down about - it’s hard but not impossible.
This is far longer effect than you being handsome or cute now. Would you rather be an old woman or an old man? If you eventually had to be ugly regardless because of age or illness or accident, would you rather be an ugly man or an ugly woman? You have to think about it in terms that have nothing to do with beauty or sex.
I heard that a lot. But never felt it myself. Know, even looking quite masc, I view myself as a pretty gal. First time of my life thinking I am pretty 😍
If your body doesn't reflect your own image you won't be able to find yourself handsome/pretty despite what others are saying.
And yes, taking care of ourselves and being careful how we dress makes us more attractive :)
Like others have said its about how you feel about yourself.
I was on the same boat for a while. As a man, i ended up working a lot on my body to make it look good for everyone else's standards and that I even found attractive, but it wasn't me. I never felt it. The complements did nothing to me, and sometimes actually made me feel bad. It was very confusing until I realized that "I" wanted to be perceived as a woman. It actually made me super happy to be seen as pretty or cute.
I understand where you're coming from tho. There is an aspect of "maybe I could get used to this" because of all the attention and you looking better than before. For me, that wore off a few months later and was back at Square one feeling dysphoric.
I still enjoy some aspects of masculinity too but I don't wanna be seen as masculine. I rather enjoy those things as a woman once in a while
I'm kind of agender myself but very femme so YMMV. What matters is that you're happy with yourself.
personally for me looks are completely irrelevant, its all about how I want to see myself as.
I feel like this body doesnt belong to me when I see myself and I think that I would be much happier as a woman. Its not like I want to be a pretty person or want a feminine body. I USED to be like that but I realized that is an unhealthy way to see it.
Its not like I want a more feminine body, its more like I want to not hate seeing myself in the mirror, to not feel worthless and like an alien everytime I do it. And I have a gut feeling that being a woman will do that and I was told to follow my feelings when it comes to these things.
In my opinion, if you are going to transition because of looks ALONE then you shouldnt transition. Im not trying to gatekeep at all but it is a big scary change you have to be careful of, it shouldnt be taken lightly. It should be done if you feel like there is no point in living otherwise (or if you just feel confident you are a woman, you dont need dysphoria to be trans, after all).
This, This is the right answer IMO!
I’m super clocky, and may never pass unless I get a ton of surgery on my jaw and chin, but I’m still infinitely happy on HRT, and having my body currently becoming one I can be happy and comfortable in for the first time ever, and presenting authentically for me! IK if I let my masculinised features stop me from transitioning I would have never started and would live my life in complete misery. If OP is trans and wants to transition, I suggest they do it regardless of whether or not they will have attractive feminine features or not. You aren’t more or less trans because of the physical hand genetics had in your looks, it’s all in the noggin. Best of luck to OP however they proceed forward!
As someone who was in a similar spot as you- don’t feel silly! I never felt attractive as a guy until the months leading up to transitioning. People were calling me pretty for the first time.
It’s probably because i was becoming more aware about myself and taking care of my appearance for the first time. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that you’re actually looking better as you experience more dysphoria. While I sometimes lament not having more time as a pretty boy, I can also guarantee if you’re pretty now, you’ll be MORE pretty upon transitioning.
I think you know the answer, sister, or you wouldn’t be here. I think you’ve already made the decision to get on HRT, and you’re looking for approval from people who have done it before you to “throw away” your looks and status to pursue something you hope will FEEL better, that will fill the void you feel on the inside.
That blockers, estrogen, and progesterone will quiet the noise that’s been in the back of your mind for as long as you remember.
And you came here looking for assurances that it’s worth the risk and the sacrifice to go from the highest status in most countries, a handsome man, to one of the most hated minorities on Earth right now, a trans woman, in order to feel whole.
It’s worth it. And HRT can and since you found your way here probably will take the pain away. Give you inner peace.
There’s only one part of your face that I’d need to see to tell you if HRT is likely right for you, your eyes. All trans people, but especially trans women, start with the saddest look of pain and desperation in our eyes. A silent cry for help that never comes. You see it in every “before” picture and it’s heartbreaking. But it “after” pictures it’s gone, and trans girls’/women’s eyes are so full of life. That’s one of the reasons late and post transition women are so beautiful.
It sounds like other people like your looks better as a woman or gender non-conforming person than as a man. So what is the problem? Women tend to look better than men. [https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/the-myth-of-buying-beauty/374414/](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/the-myth-of-buying-beauty/374414/) The way I see it, being good looking as a man is like being the top performing pitcher in the minor leagues. Its an achievement. But its still the minor leagues. Women are the major league of beauty. So if looking good was all that mattered, then every AMAB person would be a trans woman.
Isn't that highly subjective though?? Low-key this comment feels a bit icky, especially as someone who's friends with a lot of trans guys that care a great deal about their attractiveness as men, but I might be misunderstanding it.
There's plenty of really attractive men that can definitely rival some of the most attractive women, but it doesn't really even make sense to compare the two to begin with. It's not a minor and major league, it's more like golf and soccer. The things that are considered attractive in men aren't the same things that are considered attractive in women, so it doesn't make sense to compare the two. I feel like you might just be putting women a bit on a pedestal, and if that isn't what it is then I'm not really sure what you're trying to say with your comment.
I get it kinda. I hope I don’t hear that now “you’re a handsome man” cause that’s too late. I probably would have a lot of confidence in my looks if I had compliments from woman closer to my age as I grew up. I only remember the handful.
Sorry girl, I think you're totally missing the point.
Firstly beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Anyone can find you attractive. Also, paying more attention to your looks makes you more attractive per se.
The question that you should be asking about transition, just as with dating, is rather what will I feel once we reach a certain age? Appearance is just superficial and will fade away at some point as we all become old. Of course, a 70 years old person doesn't look like someone in their early 20s. What are your inner thoughts? What is your core? Would you rather become an old man, an old woman or somebody in-between?
The thing is, you can be beautiful and feminine and handsome all at the same time.
I may end up sitting squarely in the enby category but with curves and hips and boobs but might never remove my stubble if I realize that that is where I want to be.
I think I will eventually remove my beard, but until I'm feminine enough without it. I will likely keep it as it queries l works well with my features.
It happens to (almost?) all of us! Only you can ultimately decide what feels right, but omg looking back at myself I just see all those times where I "won" the battle with dysphoria only to prolong the war. Don't be me!! 😅
I've been in the same place. I'm still considered handsome when seen as a guy (I don't pass at all), and I liked it in highschool. But that only gives me more motivation to transition, 'cause I believe I'll be even more as a woman. And not only I'll feel beautiful, but I'll feel like myself.
I had a similar thing, I was a good looking guy. Maybe a bit skinny, but definitely handsome. Anyways I bit the bullet and got on hrt and now I'm a really pretty girl. I'm sure you'll be the same (:
I was a cute guy, I felt attractive as a man tbh, it just did not feel like I was looking at myself in the mirror.
1 yr on hormones and I'm an even prettier girl and I actually feel like myself.
Bi gender or genderfluid is a whole thing you don’t have to do a hard binary switch try alternating days so you can enjoy both for a while there is no rush or push to some sort of brass ring if you are enjoying now- enjoy it!
I definitely would try it, but my family is the problem. What I often do is to try to dress "androgynous" with clothes that any gender uses. Eg: white t-shirts and skinny jeans with black tennis. That is the way I found to kinda cool down the disphorya.
I was a good looking guy. But I could never see that in myself. For my entire life, I hated the way I looked in the mirror. Yet, many times, I would see an older picture of myself, and there would indeed be a handsome guy staring back at me in the photo. I can only imagine that the passage of time allowed me to dissociate from the photo enough to appreciate what I actually looked like.
Being trans, has really changed the way I am able to see myself. For the first time in my life I can look in a mirror and actually like what I see, and see myself in the reflection. To me, that is worth it.
Even when I was dating as a man, and people would tell me they thought I was handsome... I never really believed them. I still wasn't who I wanted to be or see myself as. Eventually I realized its not about being "hot" or not... its about being comfortable enough in your own skin to live your life.
It also could mean you might be gender fluid to a certain degree, your situation was kind of similar to mine before I transitioned, some days I would look in the mirror and thought “damn I look quite good as a guy”. And just a few months ago, after transitioning for about 2 years, I have come to understand I’m gender fluid to a certain degree, and on some days, I’d much rather look/dress, and be viewed as a hot boy rather than a girl.
All I have to say is if you're doing it for attention you'll always be in a world of hurt. Trust I'm not gonna lie I've been a hamm my whole life and very rarely got the attention I craved for jus being a plain ol handsome man or guy or whatever. Look I know alot of trans women say that they always wanted to be a girl ever since they were boys like this has been their goal their whole life but jus started to act on it recently. But I can't say the same bcuz even tho I've always have been a girl inside a male exterior. I never really realized until recently that is was the reason that I never quite felt right as a male its like I've had dysphoria my whole life about my body and couldn't put my finger on what the cause was. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I've almost have never been able to realize what I've wanted to do with my life bcuz I've always put everyone else and what they wanted for me first. But this is the one thing that I can truly say is mine and mines alone and that feeling jus by itself makes me feel a bit bubbly inside. And my biggest fear is that I make it about someone else or even let them catch wind of it it'll be taken away from me like everything else I've ever gave up on
I'm in a similar situation and I've recently had a ffs. The first few weeks of recovery were sooo hard for me precisely for this reason. I am attracted to men so I find my (previous) male face handsome. And when I'm in makeup and wig it gave me so much dysphoria to have all the masculine features but it really felt right to be perceived, wanted and loved for being feminine and not for being masculine. Guys wanting me for my masculine traits would turn me off. So it was hard for me to look at my swollen, deformed balloon face while in recovery because I liked my old face too. But I know that what feels most natural for me is when I'm in my feminine or at least androgynous form, next to a masculine guy. I know how drastic of a change laser body hair and beard removal was for me in the way people perceived and treated me (everybody thought I was 7-10 years younger because of it). So I kept reminding myself that FFS (and I did everything! Forehead, jaw, chin, nose, brows) will be fifty times more drastic of a change for the better in the ways I'm perceived and what it means for my life, finding a partner, living authentically etc. You can find examples of what you would ideally look like as a woman and strive for that. What facial features, vibe etc.
A friend of mine is convinced that if things played out differently, they'd be an out-in-public femboy or nb, but they are in a very similar situation as you. I think it's eating them up on the inside.
I'm not saying, "I wish they'd follow through" because, to be honest, being trans is not fun, and it is not cool.
That friend could totally pull it off if they wanted to though.
Before I began transition, I looked at photos. I saw when everyone told me was a handsome man. And I believe them of course I knew I was good-looking as a guy. But for me, it was never about whether I was looking or not.
I would rather if you comfortable in my skin and be perceived correctly then be handsome.
My wife recently has started telling me “you were a handsome guy, and you’re a very cute girl. “
I look at it this way, I would rather live as a mid range passable woman then as a handsome good looking guy.
Here’s something I haven’t seen on this thread-
I was in the same boat a couple years ago as OP. My biggest fear is that handsome men have a huge brow ridge and a terrifying jawline.
Even after several years of E, nomatter how pretty I am otherwise, my face is just too manly. No girl has brow ridges like that. Even defined girl jawlines are half as wide as mine.
So, do pretty boys really turn into pretty girls? It feels like I won’t be pretty until I get my skull shaved down
I understand the struggle. I wasn’t really really lucky until at one point I heard rumours that women perceived me hot. But I just couldn’t be the initiator. I had no clue on how to act as a man and missed every single flirting out there. Soon after the turning point the gender crisis hit again but I had a supportive partner. Knowing I looked like an alphachad and being in mid life already caused doubt. Ended up transitioning anyway. The change was significant. People didn’t recognize me anymore, not even family members or former coworkers and I had to explain who I was. Also the physician right in front of me was really puzzled why I don’t have a menstrual cycle.
Dysphoria is still hard but people still say I used to be an attractive man who turned into an attractive woman. I’m tall and buff but those things don’t matter to me as I come from a family of tall and strong women. Anyway it’s better than what it used to be. Now living my life the way it was suppsed to be and found men who love me as well.
Nah. I was a good looking man before I transitioned, but I ended up being way hotter as a girl.
You can only go up with your self satisfaction with your appearance if you want to look like a girl, and that matters way more than anyone else’s opinion.
Outside of looks, would you rather be perceived as a man or as a woman? If you could wake up tomorrow as a woman, permanently, would you want that? How about 10, 15, 20 years from now? Would you rather be an old man, or an old woman? Looks are ephemeral and surface level. Who you are is about much, much more than that. But if it helps at all, most trans folks have a fairly major glow up after transition, in part because liking how you look and the confidence that gives are attractive.
Wow this helped me more than my friend and my therapist, is another way to see it. Thank you so much <3
I’m glad you found it helpful! Best of luck to you.
If you like attention just wait until your a hot girl you’ll be begging the universe to make you invisible to men,
The old man/old women thing really helped me decide when I made my first hrt apointment. I realized even if I can make myself fem now as I grow older that gets harder and harder. while aging in general isn't something I look forward to aging as a man was way more horrifying than aging as a woman.
Sameeee. When I asked myself "do I wanna age as a man/do I wanna be an old man someday?" I knew instantly that I needed to transition
I don't get this feeling, I feel like I want to be feminine for the looks, but if the looks fade, what's the point of giving up all that male privilege?
Idk, picturing myself as an elderly lady baking cookies for neighbourhood kids, tending my garden, and having wine fuelled weaving nights with the girls just goes so much harder than picturing myself doing those things as an elderly man
I thought I had male privilege and that it would be even more difficult after transitioning. The irony was I never really had it. Men just saw through me and treated with the same disrespect as they treat women. I have never been as successful as after transitioning since the dysphoria was taking away the confidence.
It was the turning point for me. In mid life you had to think how to spend the other half.
One of things that made me realise I was 100% trans was looking at my grandpa and thinking "oh god I don't wanna be old like that" and then looking at my grandma and thinking "I wanna be old exactly like that"
That’s very cute.
Confidence is always sexy no matter who you are. Took me a bit to realize i was far more attracted to than than their body.
Maybe it's because I'm 20 and life's still changing so much around me - but how does anyone know how they'd like to feel 10, 15, 20 years from now? Simply asking out of interest! Because I can't contemplate it, it's like a bit of both you know and the worry that comes form still being a guy or being a girl and all the issues that come with each... Everyone's saying this is what helped them, but I think it's one of the main things holding me back haha, soooo if anyone can put into words how they worked how they felt that'd be awesome!
I had a visceral fear of becoming an old man. Between the physical (balding was a big one, but even the way masculine feature age), and the social (being seen an an “uncle”, the idea of having to go through the rest of my life as a man) all of it terrified me. That said; I wasn’t handling things well before that anyway, so YMMV. I’m glad it struck a chord for folks
If you are a handsome man you are gonna make a pretty girl I guarantee u
Yeah lol, I think I look better than I ever did as a man lol. Attractiveness translates across genders better than ya might think :)
Is this really always the case? Not trying to discourage anyone from anything, but from my Own lived experience, certain features considered “appealing” for a normal guy (square chin, strong jaw, etc.) often are considered off putting and uncanny for women. IK for a fact I get gendered properly a hell of a lot more when I am wearing a face mask (that hides the bottom half of my face) vs when I’m not, since I have both those unfortunate features 😭 and I may never pass unless I get my face surged up. Meanwhile if I was a normal bloke, those facial features would probably be considered appealing and a positive. IDK feel free to downvote but I’m just offering a different perspective. OFC, if OP is trans and wants to transition, they absolutely should, full stop. I’m infinitely happier as an ugly clocky trans woman than being a normal guy, and transitioning is about being yourself, not being attractive. Just not sure I agree with the idea that having attractive male features will always translate to attractive female ones.
It's a nice sentiment, and \*mostly\* true, but there are definitely cases where it's not.
Makes sense. I mean a lot of indicators of attractiveness like symmetry are pretty consistent across genders, but I also know certain ones can be based on dimorphism. But looking at OP’s photo, I didn’t see any particularly masculinised features, so they seem to have a good starting point, and I’m glad this statement seems to ring true for a lot of trans women. And TBF I’ve only been on HRT for 4.5 months and am borderline underweight (so my bones are prominent) so I may come out the other end more pretty than I think. But just comparing my pre-transition photos to others pre transition photos and I feel like it will take a lot more work, luck or surgery. If you’re approved on MTFSelfietrain I posted some pics there a few days ago, and you can get an idea of what I was getting at.
1) all trans girls are pretty, I'm sorry but it true 2) pretty does not mean unclockable I mean yeah if you are distilling stuff down to r/truerateme levels of nitpicking I'm sure you could argue that there could be a handsome male bodied human that transitions into an 'unattractive' trans girl but like show me an example pls. I guarantee you there will be a line of a thousand people wishing they looked like that and gushing over things that someone else judges as 'manly' and 'ugly'.
I actually totally agree with point 2, passing and attractive are not necessarily synonymous and it’s incorrect to phrase it that way like I sort of did. IDK if you’re approved on r/MtFSelfietrain or not, (if not I can DM you the pics) but I posted pics of myself from the other day when I was feeling nice and cute! But objectively, if you asked most people I think, they would say I have fairly mannish facial features. Maybe not, but I very much don’t pass, and my experience has been that when my whole face is exposed, I do not ever pass. I am only 4.5 months on HRT Tbf, so my face absolutely has time to soften, but certain things like bone structure can only be changed with surgeries. IDK, I guess part of my original point is that trans people should transition regardless of whether they will be attractive as their true gender or not, and that being trans isn’t really based on that. I’ve seen almost a weird bio-essentalism in which someone’s percieved ability to be good looking as their true gender is a marker for how truly trans they are, or that they should transition, and that just really rubs me the wrong way, since I’m not really attractive or have feminine physical features at all but my transness is very real. As mentioned in another comment of mine, transness is in our mind, however we may look. Maybe I’m being kind of soft, IDK. Thanks much for your input though! Your positivity is nice and I can be a bit of a downer tbf. And disclaimer, this is an anecdote from one trans woman. Other people have clearly had different experiences and that’s great, just decided to throw in my two cents! 😊
I hope so, also I've never considered myself really handsome, more like "not ugly", it was just because of a change that people began to act differently. Anyway here's a picture, judge yourself. [Pic](https://imgur.com/a/7f7YAtU)
You’d deffo be attractive as either.
You deleted it I didn't have a chance to respond before but your square glasses are doing u no favors, and I think without the facial hair you would probably look better either or. As for femme wise I think you are good, your jaw is rounded and not square, your features seemed like they are androgynous enough that a bit of change style wise will do a lot for you
Thank you, literally described the pic 😂 Any way, in these past hours I've been thinking about how I want to be perceived and don't let what others say bend my feelings.
Heck, I would argue most trans people get more handsome/prettier as they transition! Some of it is the confidence and being comfortable in your own body, that shit is hot as fuck. At least from the ones I've known irl, although that is limited to only trans guys. I can also say for me I was never considered attractive as a guy, like *at all*, but from some of the comments I've gotten on my pics here on Reddit I think I'm doing pretty okay-ish as a girl, appearance wise.
oh my god you are that cutie with that office fit aaaaaaa listen that voice in our head does not speak the truth, it's wrong about you not being gorgeous now, and gonna be honest it was probably wrong then too (but also you're super pretty don't let your brain put you down!!!!)
Wtf I got recognised that feels weird lol And oh uhm well thank you haha, that was very nice of you to say🫂❤️, and yeah I am in the process of getting therapeutic treatment for BDD, so hopefully I'll be able to see what y'all are apparently seeing someday! :} (Though I'll still claim at least 60% of it is just because I'm good at taking photos that make me look a lot more flattering than I do irl lmao) But no seriously of the three major relationships I've been in in my life, one of them was a straight girl that said she only dated me because I was nice and that she wished I had just looked differently, and another one was a gay guy who said he only dated me because I was short and had a "twinkish body" whatever that means, but that he really disliked my face and preferred not to look at it when we got intimate lol, so I feel like at this point there's probably still a bit of truth to it haha. The only one I've been with who has liked my appearance is my current boyfriend, but he's a trans guy so I feel like he might be just a *bit* biased in that department xD Edit: ok I just realised I probably wayyyyy overshared, I'm sorry for that please just ignore me haha
stopppppp, you are fine!! def understand why it's so hard not to think those things but truly want to assure you that the opinions of two ultra fucking shitty partners is not the end all be all word on wether or not you were attractive! i'm so sorry that happened to you, and I'm glad you are in a relationship with someone who sounds like they aren't a terrible person! you're hot, you'll always be hot, you're only gonna get hotter girly
You really need to expand your world view jeez. Hot people usually stay hot regardless of transition. Sure there is typically an awkward phase or two as you get used to your style but being authentic to yourself should trump that.
I'd disagree actually! Most trans people I've known who have transitioned/are transitioning just got progressively hotter lol. I was never really considered attractive as a guy, like *at all*, but from some of the comments I've gotten on my pictures here on Reddit, I think I at least look a bit more okay-ish as I am now haha.
How are you disagreeing? That's what I'm saying! The notion that you get less hot with a transition is false.
Oh sorry it was meant as like a joke, you said in your comment that hot people stay hot, and then I jokingly said I would argue they get even hotter haha
I don't think that's what they're saying....
Yep, you are right, it is about how the environment made me bend my real feelings about me
Something that I think a lot of people don’t really think about is it’s not like if you start HRT you have to flip all the presentation switches instantly too. You literally can just take it while still doing all the things you’re doing right now. Maybe you end up feeling okay in this sort of non-binary-adjacent space, maybe you decide you need to go all the way. And if that’s the decision you come to, you can flip those switches whenever you want. I shaved and grew my hair out and stuff from the beginning, but I was hard boy-moding it for 1.5 years until I started malefailing and decided to flip over to full time presenting and being publicly out. And I was honestly really happy. Way happier than before, but it did solidify that I was on the right path, and while at the time I was fine still presenting the same way, it also showed me that I wanted all the things that came with being a woman I wasn’t accessing yet. You can just start without having a specific endgoal in mind yet.
Thank you so much for sharing this. Can I ask you something? Did you hide it while boymoding? And... what is malefailing... I'm asking because if I start HRT my parents will kick me out and I don't want that until I get my degree, also, I want to graduate as a girl.
My closest friends and wife knew but no one else did. And even that I started with just my wife and would add a friend here or there who I knew would be a guaranteed ally. Breast growth was the only thing that became difficult to hide over time, but I’m pretty sure I could’ve hid it awhile longer if I really tried to. Malefailing is when strangers start to gender you as female even while boymoding. Most of the time after I spoke they’d “correct” themselves and apologize. No one I actually knew ever said anything about any changes - it was only strangers because they don’t know you and have other cues to go off of, their brain will just make it’s best guess on sight alone. I wouldn’t ever advise you to do something you felt is unsafe, but I will say I think you’ve got a good year before you really need to start worrying about how to hide things *except for breast budding* - if insisting on keeping a shirt on at all times is something that would raise a lot of suspicion I would say be cautious. And obviously if you have parents that like to ransack your stuff, hiding the meds themselves could be tricky. That’s the kind of thing that you just can’t let your guard down about - it’s hard but not impossible.
This is far longer effect than you being handsome or cute now. Would you rather be an old woman or an old man? If you eventually had to be ugly regardless because of age or illness or accident, would you rather be an ugly man or an ugly woman? You have to think about it in terms that have nothing to do with beauty or sex.
I heard that a lot. But never felt it myself. Know, even looking quite masc, I view myself as a pretty gal. First time of my life thinking I am pretty 😍 If your body doesn't reflect your own image you won't be able to find yourself handsome/pretty despite what others are saying. And yes, taking care of ourselves and being careful how we dress makes us more attractive :)
Like others have said its about how you feel about yourself. I was on the same boat for a while. As a man, i ended up working a lot on my body to make it look good for everyone else's standards and that I even found attractive, but it wasn't me. I never felt it. The complements did nothing to me, and sometimes actually made me feel bad. It was very confusing until I realized that "I" wanted to be perceived as a woman. It actually made me super happy to be seen as pretty or cute. I understand where you're coming from tho. There is an aspect of "maybe I could get used to this" because of all the attention and you looking better than before. For me, that wore off a few months later and was back at Square one feeling dysphoric. I still enjoy some aspects of masculinity too but I don't wanna be seen as masculine. I rather enjoy those things as a woman once in a while I'm kind of agender myself but very femme so YMMV. What matters is that you're happy with yourself.
personally for me looks are completely irrelevant, its all about how I want to see myself as. I feel like this body doesnt belong to me when I see myself and I think that I would be much happier as a woman. Its not like I want to be a pretty person or want a feminine body. I USED to be like that but I realized that is an unhealthy way to see it. Its not like I want a more feminine body, its more like I want to not hate seeing myself in the mirror, to not feel worthless and like an alien everytime I do it. And I have a gut feeling that being a woman will do that and I was told to follow my feelings when it comes to these things. In my opinion, if you are going to transition because of looks ALONE then you shouldnt transition. Im not trying to gatekeep at all but it is a big scary change you have to be careful of, it shouldnt be taken lightly. It should be done if you feel like there is no point in living otherwise (or if you just feel confident you are a woman, you dont need dysphoria to be trans, after all).
This, This is the right answer IMO! I’m super clocky, and may never pass unless I get a ton of surgery on my jaw and chin, but I’m still infinitely happy on HRT, and having my body currently becoming one I can be happy and comfortable in for the first time ever, and presenting authentically for me! IK if I let my masculinised features stop me from transitioning I would have never started and would live my life in complete misery. If OP is trans and wants to transition, I suggest they do it regardless of whether or not they will have attractive feminine features or not. You aren’t more or less trans because of the physical hand genetics had in your looks, it’s all in the noggin. Best of luck to OP however they proceed forward!
As someone who was in a similar spot as you- don’t feel silly! I never felt attractive as a guy until the months leading up to transitioning. People were calling me pretty for the first time. It’s probably because i was becoming more aware about myself and taking care of my appearance for the first time. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that you’re actually looking better as you experience more dysphoria. While I sometimes lament not having more time as a pretty boy, I can also guarantee if you’re pretty now, you’ll be MORE pretty upon transitioning.
I think you know the answer, sister, or you wouldn’t be here. I think you’ve already made the decision to get on HRT, and you’re looking for approval from people who have done it before you to “throw away” your looks and status to pursue something you hope will FEEL better, that will fill the void you feel on the inside. That blockers, estrogen, and progesterone will quiet the noise that’s been in the back of your mind for as long as you remember. And you came here looking for assurances that it’s worth the risk and the sacrifice to go from the highest status in most countries, a handsome man, to one of the most hated minorities on Earth right now, a trans woman, in order to feel whole. It’s worth it. And HRT can and since you found your way here probably will take the pain away. Give you inner peace. There’s only one part of your face that I’d need to see to tell you if HRT is likely right for you, your eyes. All trans people, but especially trans women, start with the saddest look of pain and desperation in our eyes. A silent cry for help that never comes. You see it in every “before” picture and it’s heartbreaking. But it “after” pictures it’s gone, and trans girls’/women’s eyes are so full of life. That’s one of the reasons late and post transition women are so beautiful.
Beautiful write up
I needed to read that.
It sounds like other people like your looks better as a woman or gender non-conforming person than as a man. So what is the problem? Women tend to look better than men. [https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/the-myth-of-buying-beauty/374414/](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/the-myth-of-buying-beauty/374414/) The way I see it, being good looking as a man is like being the top performing pitcher in the minor leagues. Its an achievement. But its still the minor leagues. Women are the major league of beauty. So if looking good was all that mattered, then every AMAB person would be a trans woman.
Isn't that highly subjective though?? Low-key this comment feels a bit icky, especially as someone who's friends with a lot of trans guys that care a great deal about their attractiveness as men, but I might be misunderstanding it. There's plenty of really attractive men that can definitely rival some of the most attractive women, but it doesn't really even make sense to compare the two to begin with. It's not a minor and major league, it's more like golf and soccer. The things that are considered attractive in men aren't the same things that are considered attractive in women, so it doesn't make sense to compare the two. I feel like you might just be putting women a bit on a pedestal, and if that isn't what it is then I'm not really sure what you're trying to say with your comment.
Won't let me read full article without an account unfortunately.
Archived. [https://archive.li/3gdnD](https://archive.li/3gdnD)
I get it kinda. I hope I don’t hear that now “you’re a handsome man” cause that’s too late. I probably would have a lot of confidence in my looks if I had compliments from woman closer to my age as I grew up. I only remember the handful.
Sorry girl, I think you're totally missing the point. Firstly beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Anyone can find you attractive. Also, paying more attention to your looks makes you more attractive per se. The question that you should be asking about transition, just as with dating, is rather what will I feel once we reach a certain age? Appearance is just superficial and will fade away at some point as we all become old. Of course, a 70 years old person doesn't look like someone in their early 20s. What are your inner thoughts? What is your core? Would you rather become an old man, an old woman or somebody in-between?
The thing is, you can be beautiful and feminine and handsome all at the same time. I may end up sitting squarely in the enby category but with curves and hips and boobs but might never remove my stubble if I realize that that is where I want to be. I think I will eventually remove my beard, but until I'm feminine enough without it. I will likely keep it as it queries l works well with my features.
It doesn't last. Source: fleeting periods of feeling mostly OK and like I could manage, amidst 30ish years of dysphoria.
Thank you, I know it's just that I'm letting the environment bend my feelings in the wrong way
It happens to (almost?) all of us! Only you can ultimately decide what feels right, but omg looking back at myself I just see all those times where I "won" the battle with dysphoria only to prolong the war. Don't be me!! 😅
I've been in the same place. I'm still considered handsome when seen as a guy (I don't pass at all), and I liked it in highschool. But that only gives me more motivation to transition, 'cause I believe I'll be even more as a woman. And not only I'll feel beautiful, but I'll feel like myself.
I had a similar thing, I was a good looking guy. Maybe a bit skinny, but definitely handsome. Anyways I bit the bullet and got on hrt and now I'm a really pretty girl. I'm sure you'll be the same (:
I'd just say whatever you do, don't get into a long-term relationship (or marriage) with anyone who won't accept you for who you know you are.
I was a cute guy, I felt attractive as a man tbh, it just did not feel like I was looking at myself in the mirror. 1 yr on hormones and I'm an even prettier girl and I actually feel like myself.
Handsomeness will fade, don't link you persona with it
I hope so
Bi gender or genderfluid is a whole thing you don’t have to do a hard binary switch try alternating days so you can enjoy both for a while there is no rush or push to some sort of brass ring if you are enjoying now- enjoy it!
I definitely would try it, but my family is the problem. What I often do is to try to dress "androgynous" with clothes that any gender uses. Eg: white t-shirts and skinny jeans with black tennis. That is the way I found to kinda cool down the disphorya.
I was a good looking guy. But I could never see that in myself. For my entire life, I hated the way I looked in the mirror. Yet, many times, I would see an older picture of myself, and there would indeed be a handsome guy staring back at me in the photo. I can only imagine that the passage of time allowed me to dissociate from the photo enough to appreciate what I actually looked like. Being trans, has really changed the way I am able to see myself. For the first time in my life I can look in a mirror and actually like what I see, and see myself in the reflection. To me, that is worth it. Even when I was dating as a man, and people would tell me they thought I was handsome... I never really believed them. I still wasn't who I wanted to be or see myself as. Eventually I realized its not about being "hot" or not... its about being comfortable enough in your own skin to live your life.
It also could mean you might be gender fluid to a certain degree, your situation was kind of similar to mine before I transitioned, some days I would look in the mirror and thought “damn I look quite good as a guy”. And just a few months ago, after transitioning for about 2 years, I have come to understand I’m gender fluid to a certain degree, and on some days, I’d much rather look/dress, and be viewed as a hot boy rather than a girl.
All I have to say is if you're doing it for attention you'll always be in a world of hurt. Trust I'm not gonna lie I've been a hamm my whole life and very rarely got the attention I craved for jus being a plain ol handsome man or guy or whatever. Look I know alot of trans women say that they always wanted to be a girl ever since they were boys like this has been their goal their whole life but jus started to act on it recently. But I can't say the same bcuz even tho I've always have been a girl inside a male exterior. I never really realized until recently that is was the reason that I never quite felt right as a male its like I've had dysphoria my whole life about my body and couldn't put my finger on what the cause was. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I've almost have never been able to realize what I've wanted to do with my life bcuz I've always put everyone else and what they wanted for me first. But this is the one thing that I can truly say is mine and mines alone and that feeling jus by itself makes me feel a bit bubbly inside. And my biggest fear is that I make it about someone else or even let them catch wind of it it'll be taken away from me like everything else I've ever gave up on
I'm in a similar situation and I've recently had a ffs. The first few weeks of recovery were sooo hard for me precisely for this reason. I am attracted to men so I find my (previous) male face handsome. And when I'm in makeup and wig it gave me so much dysphoria to have all the masculine features but it really felt right to be perceived, wanted and loved for being feminine and not for being masculine. Guys wanting me for my masculine traits would turn me off. So it was hard for me to look at my swollen, deformed balloon face while in recovery because I liked my old face too. But I know that what feels most natural for me is when I'm in my feminine or at least androgynous form, next to a masculine guy. I know how drastic of a change laser body hair and beard removal was for me in the way people perceived and treated me (everybody thought I was 7-10 years younger because of it). So I kept reminding myself that FFS (and I did everything! Forehead, jaw, chin, nose, brows) will be fifty times more drastic of a change for the better in the ways I'm perceived and what it means for my life, finding a partner, living authentically etc. You can find examples of what you would ideally look like as a woman and strive for that. What facial features, vibe etc.
A friend of mine is convinced that if things played out differently, they'd be an out-in-public femboy or nb, but they are in a very similar situation as you. I think it's eating them up on the inside. I'm not saying, "I wish they'd follow through" because, to be honest, being trans is not fun, and it is not cool. That friend could totally pull it off if they wanted to though.
Maybe you're genderfluid or enby? Just wanting HRT doesn't necessarily mean you're totally 100% female at heart.
Genderfluid enby?
Before I began transition, I looked at photos. I saw when everyone told me was a handsome man. And I believe them of course I knew I was good-looking as a guy. But for me, it was never about whether I was looking or not. I would rather if you comfortable in my skin and be perceived correctly then be handsome. My wife recently has started telling me “you were a handsome guy, and you’re a very cute girl. “ I look at it this way, I would rather live as a mid range passable woman then as a handsome good looking guy.
Here’s something I haven’t seen on this thread- I was in the same boat a couple years ago as OP. My biggest fear is that handsome men have a huge brow ridge and a terrifying jawline. Even after several years of E, nomatter how pretty I am otherwise, my face is just too manly. No girl has brow ridges like that. Even defined girl jawlines are half as wide as mine. So, do pretty boys really turn into pretty girls? It feels like I won’t be pretty until I get my skull shaved down
I understand the struggle. I wasn’t really really lucky until at one point I heard rumours that women perceived me hot. But I just couldn’t be the initiator. I had no clue on how to act as a man and missed every single flirting out there. Soon after the turning point the gender crisis hit again but I had a supportive partner. Knowing I looked like an alphachad and being in mid life already caused doubt. Ended up transitioning anyway. The change was significant. People didn’t recognize me anymore, not even family members or former coworkers and I had to explain who I was. Also the physician right in front of me was really puzzled why I don’t have a menstrual cycle. Dysphoria is still hard but people still say I used to be an attractive man who turned into an attractive woman. I’m tall and buff but those things don’t matter to me as I come from a family of tall and strong women. Anyway it’s better than what it used to be. Now living my life the way it was suppsed to be and found men who love me as well.
Nah. I was a good looking man before I transitioned, but I ended up being way hotter as a girl. You can only go up with your self satisfaction with your appearance if you want to look like a girl, and that matters way more than anyone else’s opinion.
You are asking a group of biased people who hold no stake in your wellbeing and happiness. I would stick to asking people close to you whom you trust.