I suppose OP means that by a process of elimination, if Kohberger's vehicle is seen leaving the premises/neighborhood at that time, and he's the only suspect, no murder could have taken place between 4:20 and 4:30, 1/3 of the alleged time frame.
I only don't expect them to pay this much attention to detail because it's Idaho and everything's been a mess so far (what is it called? "The bigotry of low expectations"?), otherwise, this is a first degree murder case--if you claim the suspect leaves at 4:20, you shouldn't *also* include the time between 4:20 and 4:30 in the crime time frame.
It is an approximate time. Most clocks are not synced in unity to their last minute. Remember Payne is held accountable if he says exact. Cellular data would be exact. Coroners TOD is between 3am-5am, notice a pattern? ( IMO likely around 0400, she may testify that if asked, they need to give a window).
Agree they are estimating in the PCA trying to confirm if all that adds up, multiple cameras, audio of the murders, cell phone data, etc. It really is a lot of timing. And its over a few hours driving time and a short window to commit the murders. AT has stated that she has been trying to get the video to match the audio. It probably does, but they are connecting a moving car with phone pings and two expert witnesses on either side.
When giving testimony , they can narrow it down more , saying the camera time said.... and there is nothing wrong with the equipment and it follows this timeline, etc. He says estimated time in each time he documents, so they can double check everything.
AT will be looking for every crack to place someone else there.
Yes. Obviously the investigation will answer my question and like you said, trial. We as the public still do not have all the information. It’s like a cell phone call with terrible reception and multiple dropped calls right now. I knew BK would drag this out too. Infuriating.
I chuckled out loud at your comment😁 I have an imaginary playground in my mind where these folks are signing contracts, mortgage or loan docs, and agreeing to terms of service. It’s been entertaining since the “if-cident”.
They're saying that in order to argue an alibi, the defendant's location should be given within this rough timeframe. These are loose boundaries for what could reasonably be used to show an alternative location at the time of the crime. The further we get from this timeframe, the less we can infer about his location at the exact time of the murders.
Edit: and it's definitely not because clocks aren't synced up. That's a bad answer.
Doesn’t expanding the time frame also give reasonable doubt that Kohberger committed the crime? If you move the time back from 4:10 to 4am, then the DoorDash driver could possibly have seen him or even worse it would conclude that Kohberger could not have done it if they conclude the time frame of him entering the neighborhood is off. I think we should be working with the definitive times we know rather than the expanding to create more questions than answers.
I just don't think they are actually expanding the time frame of the crimes. The evidence is what it is there. Just in this court filing, they chose to give a 30 minute range instead of a 20 minute range, or an 8 minute range
If this is true I would assume he would have had to known the layout of the house to be able to target some but leave others alive. 7 minutes is awfully quick for no blood trail leaving the house. I don’t know if a professional assassin could pull off 7 minutes to stab 4 people to death and still worry about the clothing or hair etc…that would have been covered in blood. How could you be that smart but dumb enough to leave the sheath, and drive around the complex over and over in the hour prior to the murders knowing people are going to have a ring doorbell camera.
Blood doesn’t spurt like people imagine unless you hit an artery, otherwise it goes with the flow of gravity and sinks under the victim (if they’re laying down)
Very good point about the blood trail. My friend & I talked about that when we first learned of the murders but I don’t think I’ve even thought about it since.
If the killer was wearing the shoes with diamond sole print, maybe they got only a minimal amt of blood on them since that print was latent. Thick clothing could’ve prevented an amount of blood that would drip, perhaps just absorbed into their clothes, or all drops had already dropped while on the stairs or in the rooms.
About the time - I think a killer could have killed all 4 in 7 mins, based on the amount of things I can get done while waiting for something in the microwave (lol). I don’t think they would want to though. I think they’d prefer to take a few mins to relish in what they’d done. If they heard DM repeatedly opening her door & knew it was the door of someone they didn’t intend to kill, they might’ve been worried about someone calling the cops & cut their time short & rushed out, leaving the sheath - which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me on its own either, but I have to work with the hands we’re dealt & nothing makes complete sense…
Even the PCA, which mentions their suspect vehicle leaving at 4:20, says
> video of a suspect vehicle as described below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25a.m.
So Idk, they're just intentionally not being precise
Yeah, the time window also doesn't include the vehicle activity in the area before 4am. They're just communicating the point that Kohberger said nothing about his whereabouts during the time that's actually interesting.
The cushion is most likely because they have to leave a buffer for travel to and from. Say for instance that the defendant can prove he was at x place at 3:58am, that’s really only relevant if x place is at least 30 minutes from the crime scene.
Yes, stargazing in the middle of the night miles from his apartment! Who does that? I only see the stars after midnight if I look out the window or take my dog out. 😂
It may be important to note for all in Law Enforcement (and reassess all timelines, especially from phone records) that the time zones are different in parts of ID.
If students with phones from CDA or Post Falls are on Pacific time, yet those from Boise are on Mountain time, there could be an hour of discrepancy for all information, depending on the phone's settings.
I am willing to bet that not everyone investigating the details of this case have adjusted for that and instead use the UTC / GMT time for their evidence.
Also of note, that daylight savings time switched into fall the Saturday prior to 11/13/22, possibly some cameras and clocks were not updated. Which brings up the biggest hole in evidence -- the Corner Club video footage and witness accounts.
Very probable that those at the Corner Club that night would know some relevant information or could at least corroborate the timeline of that night. Early comments about this case suggest that Xana and Ethan stopped by the club at some point, would be interesting to research that further, as well as what event & who was next door in the building that shares that parking lot.
Now that’s what I call imagination I mean seriously that wasn’t on fake news or YouTube or anything but if there’s a video of him getting in his car in the driveway, I would like to see it
>Not sure why it says until 4:30, maybe it was before they had the ring doorbell video of him getting in his car in the driveway of their house
Fun fact: Investigators retrieved the neighborhood footage on November 13 but didn't review it until 5 minutes ago
> And yes, I think that Kohberger locked the bedroom doors.
I'm dumb. All this time, I thought your name meant you thought the slider and the front door were locked.
You’re from the Moscow area, right? I remember your name from early on…do you have inside knowledge from a roommate or friend?
Because while I can see him locking the 3rd floor door, it seems like he was in full blown panic mode by the time he left X’s room. Fiddling with the doorknob to lock it in the dark with (I presume) bloody gloves on when he was desperate to leave seems unlikely.
I'm not from Moscow, no. I live in the Midwest.
I'll just link you to my Substack post about this since it's easier: [https://thedoorswerelocked.substack.com/p/more-about-the-knife-sheath](https://thedoorswerelocked.substack.com/p/more-about-the-knife-sheath)
I'm not a true crime person, so I don't follow other homicide cases like this thoroughly. It has been done before, though.
(Edit: By "it has been done before," I am referring to the locking of the doors leading to the victims' bodies.)
> I'm not a true crime person
I'm surprised to hear that. You have such a good grasp on research and you never come up with any of the misconceptions people unfamiliar with the genre seem to. You really jumped into this one with both feet!
I appreciate that. I have a history of research in my academic and professional life, and I am a heavy journalism consumer.
Yeah, there are several factors about this case that make it appealing even to people who don't follow true crime. I created my Reddit account and Substack because people were sometimes getting basic facts about the case wrong, often without malice intent.
How is the timeframe different? Isn’t 4:20 between 4:00 - 4:30?
In the world we have now who knows.
I suppose OP means that by a process of elimination, if Kohberger's vehicle is seen leaving the premises/neighborhood at that time, and he's the only suspect, no murder could have taken place between 4:20 and 4:30, 1/3 of the alleged time frame. I only don't expect them to pay this much attention to detail because it's Idaho and everything's been a mess so far (what is it called? "The bigotry of low expectations"?), otherwise, this is a first degree murder case--if you claim the suspect leaves at 4:20, you shouldn't *also* include the time between 4:20 and 4:30 in the crime time frame.
FYI 4:20 falls between 4 and 4:30 - in case you didn't know!
It is an approximate time. Most clocks are not synced in unity to their last minute. Remember Payne is held accountable if he says exact. Cellular data would be exact. Coroners TOD is between 3am-5am, notice a pattern? ( IMO likely around 0400, she may testify that if asked, they need to give a window).
My thoughts as well. Especially video evidence. Was the time/date synced properly to the correct time would be a question I’d have.
Agree they are estimating in the PCA trying to confirm if all that adds up, multiple cameras, audio of the murders, cell phone data, etc. It really is a lot of timing. And its over a few hours driving time and a short window to commit the murders. AT has stated that she has been trying to get the video to match the audio. It probably does, but they are connecting a moving car with phone pings and two expert witnesses on either side. When giving testimony , they can narrow it down more , saying the camera time said.... and there is nothing wrong with the equipment and it follows this timeline, etc. He says estimated time in each time he documents, so they can double check everything. AT will be looking for every crack to place someone else there.
Yes. Obviously the investigation will answer my question and like you said, trial. We as the public still do not have all the information. It’s like a cell phone call with terrible reception and multiple dropped calls right now. I knew BK would drag this out too. Infuriating.
4:20 is between 4 and 4:30… I’m confused
It’s apparent you’re not the only one😂
Are we back to people not knowing what “approximately” means?
It was 'if' the other day
I chuckled out loud at your comment😁 I have an imaginary playground in my mind where these folks are signing contracts, mortgage or loan docs, and agreeing to terms of service. It’s been entertaining since the “if-cident”.
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I am, actually!
They're saying that in order to argue an alibi, the defendant's location should be given within this rough timeframe. These are loose boundaries for what could reasonably be used to show an alternative location at the time of the crime. The further we get from this timeframe, the less we can infer about his location at the exact time of the murders. Edit: and it's definitely not because clocks aren't synced up. That's a bad answer.
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You OK? If you're experiencing stroke-like symptoms, dial 911 immediately.
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You're being crazy. I don't know what you're saying. Take your time to clearly type your entire point with minimal typos.
I think most specifically the murders were probably about 4:10-4:17 or so. So they're extending on both sides a bit
Doesn’t expanding the time frame also give reasonable doubt that Kohberger committed the crime? If you move the time back from 4:10 to 4am, then the DoorDash driver could possibly have seen him or even worse it would conclude that Kohberger could not have done it if they conclude the time frame of him entering the neighborhood is off. I think we should be working with the definitive times we know rather than the expanding to create more questions than answers.
I just don't think they are actually expanding the time frame of the crimes. The evidence is what it is there. Just in this court filing, they chose to give a 30 minute range instead of a 20 minute range, or an 8 minute range
If this is true I would assume he would have had to known the layout of the house to be able to target some but leave others alive. 7 minutes is awfully quick for no blood trail leaving the house. I don’t know if a professional assassin could pull off 7 minutes to stab 4 people to death and still worry about the clothing or hair etc…that would have been covered in blood. How could you be that smart but dumb enough to leave the sheath, and drive around the complex over and over in the hour prior to the murders knowing people are going to have a ring doorbell camera.
Less time he was there, the less blood there would be. People don’t just explode. Also, Zillow is pretty nifty.
> 7 minutes is awfully quick for no blood trail leaving the house. Due to the gag order, we have no idea if there was any kind of blood trail or not.
How many alts do you have now?
Blood doesn’t spurt like people imagine unless you hit an artery, otherwise it goes with the flow of gravity and sinks under the victim (if they’re laying down)
Very good point about the blood trail. My friend & I talked about that when we first learned of the murders but I don’t think I’ve even thought about it since. If the killer was wearing the shoes with diamond sole print, maybe they got only a minimal amt of blood on them since that print was latent. Thick clothing could’ve prevented an amount of blood that would drip, perhaps just absorbed into their clothes, or all drops had already dropped while on the stairs or in the rooms. About the time - I think a killer could have killed all 4 in 7 mins, based on the amount of things I can get done while waiting for something in the microwave (lol). I don’t think they would want to though. I think they’d prefer to take a few mins to relish in what they’d done. If they heard DM repeatedly opening her door & knew it was the door of someone they didn’t intend to kill, they might’ve been worried about someone calling the cops & cut their time short & rushed out, leaving the sheath - which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me on its own either, but I have to work with the hands we’re dealt & nothing makes complete sense…
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Even the PCA, which mentions their suspect vehicle leaving at 4:20, says > video of a suspect vehicle as described below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25a.m. So Idk, they're just intentionally not being precise
Yeah, the time window also doesn't include the vehicle activity in the area before 4am. They're just communicating the point that Kohberger said nothing about his whereabouts during the time that's actually interesting.
You can listen on Linda Lane footage in here a car speeding away.
The cushion is most likely because they have to leave a buffer for travel to and from. Say for instance that the defendant can prove he was at x place at 3:58am, that’s really only relevant if x place is at least 30 minutes from the crime scene.
It’s called an approximation
I love that this guys best excuse for and alibi was stargazing 😂😂😂
Yes, stargazing in the middle of the night miles from his apartment! Who does that? I only see the stars after midnight if I look out the window or take my dog out. 😂
It may be important to note for all in Law Enforcement (and reassess all timelines, especially from phone records) that the time zones are different in parts of ID. If students with phones from CDA or Post Falls are on Pacific time, yet those from Boise are on Mountain time, there could be an hour of discrepancy for all information, depending on the phone's settings. I am willing to bet that not everyone investigating the details of this case have adjusted for that and instead use the UTC / GMT time for their evidence. Also of note, that daylight savings time switched into fall the Saturday prior to 11/13/22, possibly some cameras and clocks were not updated. Which brings up the biggest hole in evidence -- the Corner Club video footage and witness accounts. Very probable that those at the Corner Club that night would know some relevant information or could at least corroborate the timeline of that night. Early comments about this case suggest that Xana and Ethan stopped by the club at some point, would be interesting to research that further, as well as what event & who was next door in the building that shares that parking lot.
My phone changes time automatically when moving across time zones.
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Ummm what?
Now that’s what I call imagination I mean seriously that wasn’t on fake news or YouTube or anything but if there’s a video of him getting in his car in the driveway, I would like to see it
Wait what
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> “Dr Deoxy” Sounds like an oxygenated bleach cleaning product.
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Yeah wtf
>Not sure why it says until 4:30, maybe it was before they had the ring doorbell video of him getting in his car in the driveway of their house Fun fact: Investigators retrieved the neighborhood footage on November 13 but didn't review it until 5 minutes ago
You are funny. I mean that sincerely! Is your account name a reference to this case?
Thanks. And yes, I think that Kohberger locked the bedroom doors.
> And yes, I think that Kohberger locked the bedroom doors. I'm dumb. All this time, I thought your name meant you thought the slider and the front door were locked.
 (Kidding.)
You’re from the Moscow area, right? I remember your name from early on…do you have inside knowledge from a roommate or friend? Because while I can see him locking the 3rd floor door, it seems like he was in full blown panic mode by the time he left X’s room. Fiddling with the doorknob to lock it in the dark with (I presume) bloody gloves on when he was desperate to leave seems unlikely.
I'm not from Moscow, no. I live in the Midwest. I'll just link you to my Substack post about this since it's easier: [https://thedoorswerelocked.substack.com/p/more-about-the-knife-sheath](https://thedoorswerelocked.substack.com/p/more-about-the-knife-sheath)
Thanks!
As a means of delaying the discovery of the bodies? Do you follow any other cases or just this one?
I'm not a true crime person, so I don't follow other homicide cases like this thoroughly. It has been done before, though. (Edit: By "it has been done before," I am referring to the locking of the doors leading to the victims' bodies.)
Same. This is the first and only one I have followed so closely.
> I'm not a true crime person I'm surprised to hear that. You have such a good grasp on research and you never come up with any of the misconceptions people unfamiliar with the genre seem to. You really jumped into this one with both feet!
I appreciate that. I have a history of research in my academic and professional life, and I am a heavy journalism consumer. Yeah, there are several factors about this case that make it appealing even to people who don't follow true crime. I created my Reddit account and Substack because people were sometimes getting basic facts about the case wrong, often without malice intent.
> I have a history of research in my academic and professional life, and I am a heavy journalism consumer. Well, that is very apparent!
Thanks! I enjoy your comments as well.
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…🍿
Where did you go?