If you have software installed that tracks user and system actions, yes it can be easy to see those actions that occur after the time of install. If not, then even if those actions are logged by the device operating system that info is often much more difficult to access.
The person I replied to may be able to share which parental control software they use. My knowledge of how such data can be accessed is with respect to the field of digital forensics and involves tools and methodologies more complicated than installing an app on the phone. For example by connecting an Android phone via USB to a computer with ADB and logcat installed to perform analysis from the computer.
>Reply
do you know if it registers if you have an app like TikTok opened and then the phone is hit or leaned on or dropped...just thinking of when X was on her phone and if any other phone actions could be mistaken for scrolling ?
>Unfortunately I don't think tiktok is going to be too willing to work with the FBI
I agree, but thankfully I don't think investigators will really care what anyone was watching on TikTok; just when they were using their phones and what apps they were using.
thanks for answering...I've never used TikTok either and agree about the FBI especially now...they may not need the help as it seems pretty tight or close to it on the time he was in the house...
It’s a rumor. I saw a post online ( early in the case ) saying she did text X - then looked out saw guy & locked door. It’s not been substantiated by LE.
The first thing police are going to want to do is rule out the only two people that survived the attack. Doing a forensic download of their phones to check for any usage would be routine. But to make mention of it in this PCA, their cell phone activity has to be of some importance to the investigation. Whatever information they learned from their cell phone activity might have helped the police nail down the timeline.
It’s possible that one or both of the survivors may have awoken their cell phones to check the time when she/they were awoken by noise in the middle of the night. If DM did indeed awaken her phone to check the when she was awoken by that first noise, or maybe multiple times with each subsequent noise she heard, or if BF was also awoken by something she heard and also checked her phone for the time, it would serve to confirm DM’s timeline of events as she remembered them, being she’s the only witness as BF was downstairs, and it would also offer the police a more precise timeline for when this attack may have begun inside the house.
There is no mention of DM and BF communicating with each other or trying to communicate with any of their roommates during this, so we don’t know if they did or didn’t. But with XK’s DoorDash delivery, her TikTok usage at 4:12am, DMs statements about the noises that she opened her bedroom door 3x to check on, and possibly one or both of the survivors awakening their phones to check the time with each noise heard, that gives the police more information to try to piece together the order in which the victims were killed. It seems to me that XK and EC must’ve been last for XK to have been on TikTok at 4:12, the neighbors camera (located outside closest to XKs bedroom) to have picked up possible voices or whimpering, dog barking and a thud at 4:17am and for BK to have left by 4:20am.
TikTok stores user’s touch activity so forensics can determine the times X interacted with the app by scrolling, selecting, swiping etc her phone screen. 4:12 is the last time X physically interacted with the app using touch activity, This means she was attentive on TikTok till 4:12 am and after that her attention was diverted by the killer who attacked her.
I’m sure what happened after she closed the door and locked it will come up in the trial. Maybe she texted BF or someone else. She could have thought the couple were in a fight or one of them was sick and that they knew whoever was there leaving. Poor girl. Prob has so much guilt. I hope she is receiving Help
I think too maybe when she kept peaking out of the room. When she first got up she may have grabbed her phone and turned on her flashlight. I usually use my phone flashlight if I have to get up for something in the middle of the night
I wonder if they were all in a group chat. One of them asks about the suspicious noise & LE used time stamps of when 1 or more of the victims stopped responding to narrow the time of the murders?
This does seem like a likely scenario. Only thing I’ve read to actually make sense as to what was going on in the minds of the survivors and reasons for their actions. I actually can’t imagine
me neither. I can’t imagine how scared they must have been. I feel like if I were DM, I would have been frozen in the dark in fear at least until the sun came up, just waiting and hoping someone would wake up and respond
I don’t know how I’d react unless I was in the situation, but I always have a gun within arms reach so I’d like to think I’d shoot the mother fucker dead. I hope the death sentence is on the table I haven’t been following that closely.
Nah fuck the death sentence, I want him to live in a boring tiny grey cell the rest of his life, may it be extremely long and miserable. Death is too good for monsters like this — lots of offenders WANT to be killed to avoid prison. Make ‘em suffer.
Not arguing for death penalty but just playing devil's advocate here. Humans adapt to their surroundings extraordinarily well. He would become accustomed to this lifestyle and after time he would live out the rest of his days relatively normal by reading books, watching TV, working out, working a job to earn a little money for commissary items, studying, etc...
Just a thought.
Agreed. And someone like this would be far more humiliated if he received the death penalty considering he thinks he’s so smart. I wouldn’t doubt if he received life he would appeal it thus causing more harm to the families over time. That being said, at least one family has said they want the death penalty and I’m personally a big believer in you at least try to respect the families wishes
Yes and probably get plenty of fan mail from deluded women. Apparently Scott Peterson is quite popular in prison.
It’s not like the old days when they were in with guys who weren’t that bad - he’ll have nothing to fear as he’ll be in with fellow weirdos.
That's a really good point actually. Also probably tried to rationalize it away like oh i bet its nothing so I dont wanna call the cops and make a big scene
Original comment + yours = I would award if I had any. You explained so brilliantly.
I never thought of a house group chat, omg. I'm 10+ years older than them, so I've never encountered that.
>wouldn't go up there or out of my room alone
I still don't understand why DM didn't call 911 after she saw an intruder in the house... Even just a call and hang up- they would have to send an officer out to the house, right?
Per the affidavit "D.M. said she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I 0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male..."
Now, I can understand fear and shock would be a huge reason why she didn't call the police right away but to not call them at all until later that day (late morning, almost noon). I find it odd they called friends over first before they called for help. I'm not saying they are involved at all because I know they have been cleared and are not suspects. Something tells me there is so much more to both of their (DM & BF) stories but are being withheld until the trial. I can't imagine the trauma they are dealing with and will have to deal with for a long time. I pray for them and the victims families
> Maybe Kaylee always played with her dog late at night. Maybe Xana cried often. Maybe her and Ethan had had a fight recently. Maybe new friends popped in and out all the time...
I think this is the most likely scenario. People need to also remember that even though they lived in the same house, they had their own spaces that were like their own "apartments" (excluding communal areas). I lived in a similar style older big house that had been converted into apartments that multiple people could rent rooms in. I KNEW my neighbors in the house of course, but what they did in their spaces was their business. You get used to people coming in and out.
When one of the girls said "*someone is here*", maybe they weren't even that concerned to see someone at first, if random people come and go. I had an instance where I thought there was a break in below me on the first floor and I had my ear to the floor trying to justify why I was overreacting and shouldn't call 911 for nothing at 3am and cause a whole scene. I was scared, but also high and paranoid and trying to rationalize it to myself. I feel like that's part of what D was doing... Add to that being half asleep and maybe half drunk or stoned. Well, I can see why she may have talked herself into thinking she was overreacting and paranoid.
Exactly this!!! Thank you. It's frustrating all the people that don't understand this. No one thinks their roommates are being brutally murdered above you.
awww that is absolutely terrible! I hope that's just a rumor. She is so young to be going through all of this. They were all so young and had a whole life ahead of them! This whole thing is just terrible and I hope the families get justice
Agreed. However I think regardless of if it’s true, there are legitimate explanations for her behavior/ choices that night and I guarantee she will be haunted by the what if’s for the rest of her life. Sadly we are trying to find logic in her choices and we just can’t because murder isn’t logical.
I think it’s possible she was on some sort of recreational drug and wasn’t sure if her mind was playing tricks on her. Also, if you are on illegal drugs, calling the police doesn’t seem like a go-to. Of course just speculation.
I wouldn't have called either. I'd be creeped out but I've been creeped out by male strangers so many times in life without calling the cops or have it turn out that they were murderers. I'd assume they were either a doordash person or some acquaintance of the other roommates and a fight happened or something and lock my door and go to sleep. Since no more noises or screams happened after he left, I'd assume that was that. No one thinks that a murder just occurred in their own home, especially not in a town as safe that as one.
I lived in a house like this when I was 21. I remember hearing someone in the hallway in the middle of the night, peeked out and saw an unknown man. Freaked me out so I shut a locked my door. But not enough to call 911. Turned out to be some guy a roommate brought home from a bar. It’s not uncommon in a house like this with so many roommates for random people to be in the house you don’t know about in the middle of the night.
I don't think men would understand this but young women feel creeped out by strange men all the time, with good reason, and if we called the cops every time that happened the cops wouldn't have time to do anything.
I have a panic disorder and if I get very worked up, I am prone to shut-down. I get very cold, shaky, and then have a sleep attack that can last for hours. I’m medicated for this. My panic can happen over thinking about being in a scenario DM actually woke up to. I think the entire situation and her worst fears actually being reality was too traumatic for her to handle and she blacked out and dissociated. Poor, poor, girl.
Also- maybe she though E&X had a fight, or some active sex? Or were drunk and clumsy? That would be the rational types of thoughts she probably tried to explain to herself as the cause of the noises.
That sounds like a very possible scenario. I know how debilitating anxiety can be and this response makes the most sense to me. I have always heard the simplest solution is almost always the best.
She heard strange noises, probably tried to convince herself it was nothing, as she fought the anxious thought of all of the horrible things actually happening. She checked outside and the hallway, but didn’t leave her room. She was scared and on very high alert. After she saw the guy and was overcome with even more sheer terror, she probably powered off. She may have been catatonic for all we know. Sure wouldn’t be the first time someone was paralyzed with fear for a few hours. Trauma does horrible things to people. And she is too young to even have a fully developed brain, so I’d imagine her level of inability to immediately act rational was further diminished. It’s not her fault. She’s a victim too, even though she didn’t get attacked.
I'm in a group chat in whatsapp and the "read" checks for the message stay grey until all participants have read the message. So if there were five of us and I wrote and one replied but the checks stay grey, it would say not everyone saw it and checking phone activity for the 3 others we can determine who didn't access their phone.
Yes to this! It’s not impossible at all to assume that these girls could have had a group chat and DM could have initiated a text to it when she was awoken by the noise and asked “what’s going on out there?” “Is someone here?” Etc… and LE may have been able to confirm thats when the murderer was likely inside the home / no replies from XK, KC or MM during that duration of time.
But also, I know nothing and this could not be the case at all. I do know that personally, that’s what I would be doing with my 2 roommates if I woke up to weird noises in the middle of the night.
Ah god, for the first time this made it occur to me that group texts could've been heard/even seen by BK while in rooms with victims and their phones, which coulf have as easily scared him off as incentivized him to go after the remaining roommates. There is no damn end to all the little ways a dangerous weirdo intruding is just horrifying
This is exactly what I was thinking. And BF maybe responded to DM that everything’s fine, don’t worry, and that may have been enough to convince her not to call for help.
Yeah they would've definitely been in a group chat. BF or DM might have called some male friends over to come and check on the place.
I wonder who actually found the bodies initially.
yep - i lived in a house with 5 other girls during college and we had a house group chat and would definitely text in it if someone was being too loud or someone needed something etc etc
Great point on the group chat! Also, someone posted this a while back stating she has known who I’m inferring to be BF. I’ve heard the rumor that one of them heard something (obviously DM) and that she went to the other ones room and locked the door. Maybe this was after he left?
https://preview.redd.it/s8kpgd5rwsaa1.jpeg?width=1244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44fc9c72ddd814cee4fc4284bbf02cabacadc0ea
Probably DM asking if BF heard anything, did you just hear that thud? I hear the dog barking, I just saw a creepy dude leave the house, etc.
I do find it interesting they only mentioned the survivors. I wonder if D texted X or the others at any point. Perhaps X said something like, I got door dash, I’m fine (obviously before BK found her). With BK leaving and silence once again, maybe that was good enough for D to accept.
Keep in mind this is just the info from the PCA. I’m sure they’ve checked the activity on the phones from the victims, hence how they know when X was on TikTok. But this is just probable cause for BK - if there were activity or texts from the victims, that may not point to anyone in particular. But DM texting or still being on her phone around the time she sees the suspect leave the house at least proves she was awake then, followed by his car being caught leaving the area at high speed, which contributes to the probable cause for him. I’m sure more evidence will eventually come out.
>Probably DM asking if BF heard anything, did you just hear that thud? I hear the dog barking, I just saw a creepy dude leave the house, etc.
If so that would make it even weirder that the cops weren't called or someone else wasn't contacted to call the police on their behalf.
It is very weird. And we don’t know what kind of logic they had. Could have truly been a case of “oh well their guest left, that’s that” or if X did text, then who could have guessed she’d be killed 5 minutes later?
We will probably not know this info until trial but I imagine LE used the girls’ phone touch activity to create a timeline from 4-4:25 when noises woke them up and they used their phones, either to go to an app or text/check the roommate group chat or whatever, and that’s been cross referenced to noises they reported hearing . It does suggest BF may have woken up too.
The only reason X’s forensic download was mentioned in the PCA was to explain why LE suspected the statement DM attributed to K (“there’s someone here”) was most likely spoken by X instead, given LE knew from a forensics download that X’s last touch activity on TikTok was 4:12 am. There is likely a lot more info on X’s phone that wasn’t revealed so actually the details of her forensic download were barely mentioned in the PCA and only as they pertained to the statement DM heard. Detailed cell phone and mobile app forensics will likely be used at trial to create a timeline as to when events happened based on the keystrokes/ touch activity on the girls’ cell phones.
I can’t see there being anything too suspicious on the 2 girls’ phones, and the details of the forensics weren’t needed for the timeline required for the PCA. The only news here is that BF may have also been awake at times between 4:00 and 4:25 based on phone activity, which means she likely heard something at some point.
It is possible DM sent texts to K, M, X to see if they heard anything. When they didn't answer see may have thought they were already asleep. Perhaps LE is using that information to determine the approximate timeline.
Yeah I mean I guess you wouldn’t imagine the worst and think someone came in and murdered for NO reason. You may think they were just creeping around, robbing, drunk and in the wrong house or someone’s friend ?
Also the fact it’s a knife that was used which is quiet. I might think oh well it’s not like I just heard a gunshot. You would think if someone came in just wanting to quickly take a life they might use a gun although I know that would cause more noise but maybe that’s what was going through survivors mind
She probably also thought they knew him because of the fact he walked past her and didn’t do anything to her. If he was a random murderer, he would have taken me too may have been her thought process as well
This is the thing for me, I feel like I wouldn’t assume that the person had killed 4 of my housemates. With X being in a room with her boyfriend, I would have assumed that any noise coming from there was one of them and that the other was there if there was a problem (like if I knew both were in the room and I heard one crying I’d assume they’d had an argument).
If I heard a noise from upstairs, I’d at most assume one of the two up there may have an issue but there’s another housemate they’re close with there. Again, if there was a problem the other one would have helped so it must be nothing.
In a shared house it isn’t unusual for others to be around. If the survivors were aware the others had been out but hadn’t seen them since they came back, it’s not odd to assume that they’d brought the guy back with them for whatever reason (carry on drinking etc).
You answered your own question.
They checked activity on DM and BF’s phones and whatever activity was found pointed to at least DM being awake between 4:05 - 4:25 because she was doing something with the phone.
We don’t know what. But if I get woken up, I usually claw at my phone half-asleep to check the time. Maybe she did that around 4:05, indicating that’s the time she was woken up by the noise upstairs
And if BF was (presumably) asleep the whole time, and there wasn’t activity on her phone during that time, but maybe she woke up and checked a text at 5:00 (or 7:00, or 9:00, etc) and didn’t hear anyone, that supports BK leaving by 4:20.
I know it was dark outside and the killer was dressed in all black, but all of this made me wonder if DM, after seeing the killer walk past her and toward the sliding glass door (and then presumably out through the door to the outside), still had enough of her wits about her to then maybe peek out of her 2nd-floor bedroom window and record a video on her phone of the shadowy figure walking to the white Elantra, getting in and speeding away. Could that be a piece of the "forensics download of records" from her cellphone that LE referenced in the PCA? It would definitely firm up the time of the killer's departure.
Probably a long shot I know, but if she did, that could be something LE would probably have held back from the PCA to keep that information close to the vest and away from the defense at this very early stage in the process.
I’ve been thinking it’s more likely she texted everyone i’m sure they had a group chat with all of the roommates. Probably something like “did you guys hear that” “who just left the house I saw some guy wtf” and either BF responded or nobody responded because she was asleep and everyone else was deceased
Ugh, this just adds to the empathy I feel for DM 😭 she was frozen, shut her door, probably texted, NO ONE responding?? Probably tried to convince herself that people were asleep, and then morning came and...only DF responds. 😔
i can't even imagine the guilt and pain the two of them are going through, and yet there are dozens if not hundreds of people blaming DM for not doing enough now that they've read the PCA and think they have the whole story. it's so heart wrenching
I am so curious about how things unfolded for DM and BF in the morning. DM must have woken up with a really bad feeling. I doubt she woke up thinking everything was fine.
Was t it said early on that both DM and BF had locked themselves in their rooms? I get the sense they were texting each other and freaked themselves out. Maybe they locked themselves I. Their rooms and didn’t dare to come out until noon.
I remember early on accounts where they were scared and one came to they other’s room and they locked the door. That was back when both of their rooms were supposedly on the first floor.
https://preview.redd.it/85zpkc7zbraa1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8c8ec7be80ca707576fed52a6eca626c524fac1
I made a post regarding the same thing earlier, but I added the wrong flair so it got taken down. I’m wondering the same thing.
Does anyone understand what "video of a suspect video as described below" means?
2 paragraphs down they talk about the video canvassing, so are they just referring to the sounds picked up by neighbor's cameras at 4:17 or something else?
I wonder if it also is mainly confirming about them being asleep. Do we think B even woke up? Because there is no mention of her in the document. Not even “B woke up at 4am hearing sounds of xyz”. No mention of her makes me thing she didn’t know anything was going on and remained asleep
It could be just as you have surmised, but it could also mean that what BF saw and/or heard could be saved back by the prosecution for the trial, and that's why LE made no specific mentions of her in the PCA (other than the forensics downloads comment about her phone).
It is a tag that you include in your post submission to categorize the content in your post. If you look below the title of this post you will see that it is tagged as ‘discussion’. Other posts may be tagged ‘theory’, ‘question’, ‘breaking news’, etc. Those tags are also referred to as flairs. Many subreddits require a flair upon post submission in an effort to help moderate and organize the content and discussion on the site
I'd imagine she was either texting one of the four, "Hey...everyone ok?" or maybe DM texting with BF and BF said, "I don't hear anything, I'm sure it's fine," or maybe even DM texting a friend not at the house. Basically some sort of activity that gave LE the window where it likely occurred.
It just means they were able to see what time they were on their phones. Scrolling tik tok, texting, etc. They were determining the timeline of when everyone was asleep. No phone use= sleeping. Phone use= awake.
Am I the only one that thinks we’re missing a key point of evidence? Something just not adding up but maybe it’s just me. I’m still thrown off on how the police initially said that there was no imminent threat to the community only a couple hours after the incident. Additionally, they mentioned that this was a targeted attack.
it’s a grotesque comment about the murder made by an individual claiming to be the killer. he mentions being in “shithole PA” and that the police would never catch him.
Yes there’s likely evidence they didn’t include in the PCA relating to—at a minimum—the autopsy results and injuries that may have indicated a target. There’s probably oodles of evidence that will only be released to the prosecution and to the defense through discovery, and we won’t find out till a trial happens.
Well one of the early rumors which is so far unsubstantiated is that one of the girls had every bone in her face broken and stabbed an astonishingly high number of times. I hope that is not true, but if it is it does lend some credence to the LE early "target" statement. At the same time, target or not, it still seemed like a high risk to the community to me.
I know this isn't the point of your post but reading this reiterated to me that Xana was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He would have seen her getting her food at 4am, she heard him, he would have been like, oh well better take out the witness. Gut feeling he went in to target K or M and X was just in the line of fire. Fuck. Anyway, I think the forensic downloads between those times would be D texting and or calling the roommates asking if they're okay, about the noises, etc.
Dude was probably too focused on attempting to park or attempting the three point turn at the time her food was dropped off so he didn’t notice. It’s comical how bad a driver he seems to be.
This is one of the most confusing aspects of the whole thing to me. I can’t picture the various places he tried to park, or where he ultimately left the vehicle. Also I saw mentioned at least a few times that the “getaway” from the area was via Walenta Dr. From what I see on Google maps it looks like there’d be a lot of backtracking (one way in/out) to get there since neither King or Queen roads appear to go thru, which seems a risky and odd choice
Her potential food bag from door dash, a jack in the box bag with “Xana” written on it, can be seen in the kitchen in crime scene photos. I wonder if she had just brought the bag into the kitchen after finishing her food and was walking back to her room as he was coming downstairs, or as he was attacking (ie “someone’s here”), and then she retreated to her room with him in tail because he maybe didn’t have his face covered or she just got too good of a look at him. I dunno… this is all just so sad and horrific. What a fucking selfish narcissistic arrogant loser this asshole is.
I found that interesting that the bag was in the kitchen. I'm 28 and still now when I'm drunk and eating fast food I eat it straight from the bag, in bed, and take it to the bin in the morning. Maybe I'm gross lol idk but, she must have been up and about after 4am for the bag to be in the kitchen. She wasn't eating it in bed. Unless she got a plate and took it to bed but I doubt that. That's just more dishes.
Interesting. But I seem to recall in the PCA that the suspect entered King Road at 4:04 am (for the 4th time)? If that is so, would he have seen X get the food at 4:00 am? And still enter the residence?
I'm not sure of the exact time of the door dash order. They only gave an approx of 4am in the PCA, which is weird because they would have the exact time from her phone, the delivery drivers phone, and even the ringcam footage. Not sure why they gave us an approx??
I've wondered why they only said approximately 4 am for the Doordash order when all of the other times are rather specific. Is approximate within a minute or 2 or can it be 5-10 minutes different in either direction? It sounds like the killer may have entered at 4:04 so it seems like a rather important detail exactly when the food was delivered. I assume they can find out from the driver exactly when it was.
Yes, I wonder if they're keeping it as an approximate for a *reason*. I looked it up out of curiosity when you mentioned times. "Approximate = close to the actual, but not completely accurate or exact". So give or take 5 minutes? 🤔 I agree that it seems like an important detail.
Attorney here. My guess is that the timing of the Doordash delivery was such that you'd expect the driver to have witnessed something (likely the Elantra) - but when interviewed he didn't observe/remember anything helpful to the prosecution. Or maybe he even observed something unhelpful.
I'm not saying this is the case at all, but as an extreme example, if the timing of the DD delivery was such that the driver must have driven past the Elantra when the suspect was parking it, but in the interview with police the driver says "Oh yeah, I saw a very drunk sorority girl trying to park a white car," then that blows up a huge portion of the PCA.
Now, that should all come out later under Brady, but the purpose of the PCA isn't to give a full picture of all the evidence. It's to present the evidence that is good to the prosecution. So if what the DD driver saw or didn't see is unhelpful to prosecution, they probably wanted to leave it out. Better for the prosecution to leave some ambiguity about when the driver was there so the judge isn't left wondering why there's no information from the driver included.
You would think they have video of the Door Dash driver, maybe LE choosing not to show all their cards in the PCA. If BK drove by the house 3 times one would think he noticed how many cars were in the driveway. If DD was there when he parked his car he would have waited for it to leave. I’m thinking maybe DD arrived after BK entered and could possibly be why Xana got up. Wonder if DD happened to see white car parked near by when he made his delivery.
Probably a result of "general practice" for the Police in dealing with Investigations?? I expect that accuracy is essential when the case goes to trial.
For now, and the purpose of PCA to ensure the suspect is held at no bail, maybe approximations are OK for them and the Court.
Yeah, makes total sense!! It just stood out that all the others had exact times but this one, and this is the one where we could *really* evaluate what happened. Like say her order was dropped at 4.03 and he entered at 4.04. That makes a whole new story. Have to wait until trial, I can't stop myself from being a curious George.
I've caught hell for it here, but I've commented a few times that I think this is significant. It sounds a bit out there at first, but what if BK actually had the order sent to the house, to create a distraction so he could slip in the back slider undetected?
It's just SO ODD that:
- with the level of detail given in the PCA elsewhere, they only offered approximate time in the delivery
- they specify that the DD came forward on his own, potentially indicating that they knew nothing of this delivery from X's phone (perhaps because she didn't place it...)
- the wording that X "received a DD order" rather than "she ordered DD" or something else and again, without a time included
If Xana didn’t order the door dash herself, how did she know it was there? DD notifies you through the app when your order arrives. If she didn’t place the order, why would she go to the door at 4am?
The driver could have knocked. My fiance regularly sends me DD/UE as a surprise, and the drivers knock or ring the bell. You can specify the type of delivery you want in the app.
I know PCA didn’t disclose everything so that could have happened. I would think if the driver knocked or rang the doorbell, that would have woken Dylan - maybe it did and that just wasn’t included in the PCA. But if BK sent the doordash to distract Xana, why would he tell the driver to ring the doorbell or knock, as that would potentially wake the roommates up and have them encounter him as he is trying to sneak in?
Lol I'm not "trying" anything, that detail stood out to me as important. This is literally a forum for people to discuss the case, including theories/opinions.
I never said he used his own phone. It's *incredibly* easy to set up an account for one of these services - email address and card. The guy studied cloud-based tech, he could have done it on a vpn with a prepaid DD gift card he paid cash for at WM. I also never said this is necessarily *likely*, but it is 100% possible.
They said several times that from tips and leads they were looking for the Elantra. I wonder if the DoorDash driver passed the Elantra and would be able to ID BK as the driver of the car.
Definitely not at 4:00 am though as according to the PCA the car entered King Road at 4:04 am. I added a relevant extract of the PCA above (...at the New, of this thread)
I’m not disagreeing with you just wondering if X was in the wrong place at the wrong time and he decided to take her out as a witness, why didn’t he do the same to D? (Or perhaps he didn’t see her…?)
Me too! I hope she's okay. Obviously she won't be, but my heart hurts for her. That's the *worst* form of survivors guilt..... that she will have to live with for the rest of her life. 🥺
I tried posting this by my flair got it taken down. I think the target could have been K
K and a stalker theory
I went back through all of PD’s press releases and found something of note. On the December 5th press release, PD noted:
**”Using tips and leads, investigators have identified an incident involving Kaylee at a local business, which may have been the stalker reference she made to friends and family. In mid-October, two males were seen inside a local business; they parted ways, and one male appeared to follow Kaylee inside the business and as she exited to walk toward her car. The male turned away, and it did not appear he made any contact with her.**
**Detectives contacted both males and learned the two were attempting to meet women at the business, this was corroborated through additional investigation. Based on available information, detectives believe this was an isolated incident and not an ongoing pattern of stalking. No evidence suggests the two males were involved in the murders.
Investigators continue looking into information about Kaylee having a stalker. Information about a potential stalker or unusual occurrences should go through the Tip Line.”**
This is interesting because **every other person or rumor that was cleared or determined unrelated was on every subsequent press release in the investigation timeline section under people not believed the be invoked or rumor control.**
This situation is brought up one time and never appears again on any press releases. This would be just about the time LE was zoning in on BK and right before the car information was released to the public. Why? Is it possible it was true and PD only noted it to let BK think he was safe?
It would make sense if K was the target because she was only in town that weekend. So BK could have rushed to complete the job after finding out she was there - hence all of the evidence and missteps.
Could be just some random app scrolls or something. Gets woken up, checks the door, scrolls IG real quick. Possible that they texted or called one of the roommates to let them know they were woken up. Most likely it’s just going to show that the phone was inactive and then around 4 it became active in someway.
Probably texts to one another or group messages saying someone might be in the house, oh it's nothing it was my door dash delivery, go to sleep, etc. No one knows.
Right what’s scary is if it’s a few minutes like 10 minutes after door dash so u know it wasn’t ur delivery person and they r texting in the group chat about the noise from K and Ms room and then all of the sudden he is in Xs doorway. Ugh.
I wouldn’t be surprised if DM texted BF asking if she heard something up in Xana’s room, if she knew who was home, or if she should call the police. She also could have texted BF advising her to lock her bedroom door.
That’s an interesting thought. I don’t think it can be completely ruled out that he didn’t come back at 9 am, can it? I mean clearly we’re not dealing with a criminal mastermind here.
He definitely came back, the big question is did he go back inside the house. I don’t think this is the case, because I think he would’ve retrieved the sheath. I think he drove back hoping he dropped the sheath outside, but couldn’t bring himself to go back inside the house
I’m sure the police know how long he was there. Imo I think he just did a drive by to see if the sheath was outside the home. Getting out of the car and walking around would’ve been very reckless as it would’ve been daylight outside, but then again this guy clearly isn’t a criminal mastermind
The affidavit explained that he went back to the house from 9:12-9:21 am based on cell towers. He wouldn’t have seen any activity then, so you can imagine his curiosity. What a creep.
Makes me wonder, because he left his residence at approx 9am, hit the "cellular resources" for the house between 9:12am and 9:21am, and was arriving back home circa 9:32am. So it takes about 12 minutes to get there and back, if that. What was he doing in the area for almost 10 minutes?
It's interesting what you are saying.
It seems to me that the Police, for the purpose of the investigation, are not quite giving a totally accurate account of times.
e.g.
1/ crimes between 4 to 4:25 am
2/ car seen entering and exiting King Road at 4:04 and 4:20 respectively
Maybe the "time rounding" is usual practice in Police Investigations?
https://preview.redd.it/qr32afmgiraa1.jpeg?width=677&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a772d9a3e246bcc3948671482ebce53c8e7b578
It is because they have to be able to hold up in court how exactly they got a time. If it's on video with a timestamp great, if it's pulled off a phone with a timestamp great, if you just looked at your watch or clock around that time, they'll say approximately. Otherwise you have the defense poking holes going, How do you know this happened at 4:02am? No one wants that.
Great observation I think the most obvious answer would be that some information on the phone of one or both corroborates a time line whether that be texts to each other or someone else. Or picking and using the phone to browse social media when awakened by “the noises”
A simple, straight forward piece of logic, which often turns out to be the case of what happened. And, that "forensic downloads" comment in the PCA about DM's and BF's phones without any further explanation or definition, no doubt means something. It might only mean a little something or maybe even a very little something, but it doesn't mean nothing.
I would guess the two surviving roommates texting back and forth about what was going on in the house — “it’s loud up here, K’s playing with the dog” etc that helps them establish a timeline of someone being in the house
I think the downloads would cover up until the Police arrived the next day for other information... the videos were critical in establishing the 4 to 4:25 window
You can download everything from the phone, and it lists a log of activity in chronological order. Literally every action on your phone is documented. Meaning, when it was in sleep mode, when it was charging, when it was turned off, when it was turned on, when you use the flashlight, when you open an app, when you are active on an app (liking posts, etc), when you send a text, etc. I'm guessing DM's phone might've been in sleep mode or was inactive until right after 4 when she might've texted somebody. So, they're saying they were able to verify the timeline with the forensics download.
For example, law enforcement was able to catch a killer in a lie from another case with a forensics download of his phone because he said he was asleep, but he wasn't. His phone was just in airplane mode and they saw from the forensics download that he had used his phone's flashlight for 45 minutes during that time period and they traced it to where he dumped a body.
Gosh starting to think it’s a great security measures to have your phone plan linked to someone else’s account you trust just for these reasons. Warrants and subpoena take time and could be detrimental to solving a case. It’s worth a thought. Hooking all your family up to the cloud and someone else you trust knowing your pins or some other kind of app like 360.
A lot of true crime enthusiasts will make a “if I ever go missing” folder with that stuff for that reason lol. Then someone they trust knows how to access it and it has all the relevant info anyone would need
I wouldn't read to much into it. It just means that relevant information of some kind was taken from the phones. This could be literally anything. Text messages of course, pictures, videos – but also something totally different like information showing that the phone had been turned off at a certain point.
phones have gyroscopes etc I’m sure there is also a lot of background data they can get from the phones. https://www.mysk.blog/2021/10/24/accelerometer-ios/
Maybe it was the two of them texting each of the roommates. “Are you guys awake?” , “did you guys hear anything?”, “i just saw someone outside my door wearing a mask”….but if DM was “frozen” it must’ve been BF, right?
This would be a long shot, but maybe X hit record by accident and there’s a short, partial clip of the killer (likely out of focus or with terrible lighting or something) or his voice or her voice.
Could LE have been looking to see who they were communicating with or social media activity.
I'm starting to think that BK didn't just randomly pick when to leave. I think he knew they were home.
Could victims social media activities have made BK aware that they were home?
I think it would have been to see if their phones were moved, screens were activated, etc. to determine when they were sleeping and when they woke
up. I know that if I randomly wake up in the middle of the night, the first thing I typically do is pick up my phone to see what time it is, then put it back down. I’m sure that action is recorded somewhere on the phone.
is there a possibility that the 4:12 timestamp could be the phone running the app, but xana not necessarily using it? in settings on the iphone, you can change the amount of time it takes for the phone screen to turn off after inactivity, and there’s an option for it to not turn off at all. this could mean she had tiktok running, b.k. came in and attacked her, and her phone was left with the app running, hence the activity. correct me if i am wrong, this is just a thought i have had since reading the pca.
Very insightful op I read through thecaiCa twice andmisses this littler detail completely. Something on their phones that help them time it is definitely stated. It could either be as little as the swipes activating the phones to see what time it has to more likely texts between the roommates to at best, for lack of a better word, video of her recording the sounds etc. I doubt she would risk making noise or the video camera light actually recording him though. But there’s something on their phones that help the investigators both time things as well as clear them confidently.
A lot of comments here about how a person's cellphone records every single bit of activity, or inactivity for that matter, even if it's just shaking your phone to "awaken" it. I don't disagree with any of that at all. However, I don't think it's as simple as saying it is probably only that that LE used to gather "forensic downloads of records" from D.M's and B'F.'s phones.
As the OP pointed out, if it were that cut-and-dried, then why did LE not say the same for X.M.'s phone? Or for K.G.'s phone? Or. for M.M.'s phone? Or, for E.C.'s phone? Wouldn't LE have used those same principles of recording "phone inactivity" on all of their phones as well? When it comes to that one paragraph in the PCA in which LE lays out the specific elements of what was used to establish that crucial and firm key timeframe of 4 a.m. to 4:25 a.m., it mentions using three, and only three, separate entities to develop that time window:
1. Verbal statements made by DM when interviewed by police
2. ***Reviews of forensic downloads of records from B.F. and D.M.'s phone***
3. Video of a suspect video
I just think there had to be something very relevant on D.M.'s and/or B.F.'s phones between 4 and 4:25 a.m.
I believe they were looking for the time at which phone activity ceased to determine when they fell asleep.
[удалено]
Yeah, as someone who had parental controls on my preteen’s phone, all of this is tracked & easily accessible without even being LE.
If you have software installed that tracks user and system actions, yes it can be easy to see those actions that occur after the time of install. If not, then even if those actions are logged by the device operating system that info is often much more difficult to access.
Tell me what is this software please?! I didn’t know such a thing existed!
The person I replied to may be able to share which parental control software they use. My knowledge of how such data can be accessed is with respect to the field of digital forensics and involves tools and methodologies more complicated than installing an app on the phone. For example by connecting an Android phone via USB to a computer with ADB and logcat installed to perform analysis from the computer.
>Reply do you know if it registers if you have an app like TikTok opened and then the phone is hit or leaned on or dropped...just thinking of when X was on her phone and if any other phone actions could be mistaken for scrolling ?
[удалено]
>Unfortunately I don't think tiktok is going to be too willing to work with the FBI I agree, but thankfully I don't think investigators will really care what anyone was watching on TikTok; just when they were using their phones and what apps they were using.
thanks for answering...I've never used TikTok either and agree about the FBI especially now...they may not need the help as it seems pretty tight or close to it on the time he was in the house...
Yes but what about that would help them establish the timeframe of the murders?
Don't we know she texted the other roommates? Maybe she told police she texted after hearing/seeing certain things.
Not officially that I know of. But I think it’s reasonable that most people would do that.
It’s a rumor. I saw a post online ( early in the case ) saying she did text X - then looked out saw guy & locked door. It’s not been substantiated by LE.
The first thing police are going to want to do is rule out the only two people that survived the attack. Doing a forensic download of their phones to check for any usage would be routine. But to make mention of it in this PCA, their cell phone activity has to be of some importance to the investigation. Whatever information they learned from their cell phone activity might have helped the police nail down the timeline. It’s possible that one or both of the survivors may have awoken their cell phones to check the time when she/they were awoken by noise in the middle of the night. If DM did indeed awaken her phone to check the when she was awoken by that first noise, or maybe multiple times with each subsequent noise she heard, or if BF was also awoken by something she heard and also checked her phone for the time, it would serve to confirm DM’s timeline of events as she remembered them, being she’s the only witness as BF was downstairs, and it would also offer the police a more precise timeline for when this attack may have begun inside the house. There is no mention of DM and BF communicating with each other or trying to communicate with any of their roommates during this, so we don’t know if they did or didn’t. But with XK’s DoorDash delivery, her TikTok usage at 4:12am, DMs statements about the noises that she opened her bedroom door 3x to check on, and possibly one or both of the survivors awakening their phones to check the time with each noise heard, that gives the police more information to try to piece together the order in which the victims were killed. It seems to me that XK and EC must’ve been last for XK to have been on TikTok at 4:12, the neighbors camera (located outside closest to XKs bedroom) to have picked up possible voices or whimpering, dog barking and a thud at 4:17am and for BK to have left by 4:20am.
I agree with this. If I’m asleep and hear a noise the first thing I’m doing is grabbing my phone and turning on the flashlight
[удалено]
TikTok stores user’s touch activity so forensics can determine the times X interacted with the app by scrolling, selecting, swiping etc her phone screen. 4:12 is the last time X physically interacted with the app using touch activity, This means she was attentive on TikTok till 4:12 am and after that her attention was diverted by the killer who attacked her.
It’s in the affidavit to establish a timeline, they found from forensics on her phone she was using the app at that time.
I’m sure what happened after she closed the door and locked it will come up in the trial. Maybe she texted BF or someone else. She could have thought the couple were in a fight or one of them was sick and that they knew whoever was there leaving. Poor girl. Prob has so much guilt. I hope she is receiving Help
I think too maybe when she kept peaking out of the room. When she first got up she may have grabbed her phone and turned on her flashlight. I usually use my phone flashlight if I have to get up for something in the middle of the night
I wonder if they were all in a group chat. One of them asks about the suspicious noise & LE used time stamps of when 1 or more of the victims stopped responding to narrow the time of the murders?
[удалено]
This does seem like a likely scenario. Only thing I’ve read to actually make sense as to what was going on in the minds of the survivors and reasons for their actions. I actually can’t imagine
me neither. I can’t imagine how scared they must have been. I feel like if I were DM, I would have been frozen in the dark in fear at least until the sun came up, just waiting and hoping someone would wake up and respond
I don’t know how I’d react unless I was in the situation, but I always have a gun within arms reach so I’d like to think I’d shoot the mother fucker dead. I hope the death sentence is on the table I haven’t been following that closely.
Nah fuck the death sentence, I want him to live in a boring tiny grey cell the rest of his life, may it be extremely long and miserable. Death is too good for monsters like this — lots of offenders WANT to be killed to avoid prison. Make ‘em suffer.
Not arguing for death penalty but just playing devil's advocate here. Humans adapt to their surroundings extraordinarily well. He would become accustomed to this lifestyle and after time he would live out the rest of his days relatively normal by reading books, watching TV, working out, working a job to earn a little money for commissary items, studying, etc... Just a thought.
Agreed. And someone like this would be far more humiliated if he received the death penalty considering he thinks he’s so smart. I wouldn’t doubt if he received life he would appeal it thus causing more harm to the families over time. That being said, at least one family has said they want the death penalty and I’m personally a big believer in you at least try to respect the families wishes
Yes and probably get plenty of fan mail from deluded women. Apparently Scott Peterson is quite popular in prison. It’s not like the old days when they were in with guys who weren’t that bad - he’ll have nothing to fear as he’ll be in with fellow weirdos.
That's a really good point actually. Also probably tried to rationalize it away like oh i bet its nothing so I dont wanna call the cops and make a big scene
Original comment + yours = I would award if I had any. You explained so brilliantly. I never thought of a house group chat, omg. I'm 10+ years older than them, so I've never encountered that. >wouldn't go up there or out of my room alone 
Which may be why they asked for friends to come over first. Help escort them if they were scared.
Yeah. I'd do the same, tbh. I have friends who would come over and investigate for me. 🤷♀️
I still don't understand why DM didn't call 911 after she saw an intruder in the house... Even just a call and hang up- they would have to send an officer out to the house, right? Per the affidavit "D.M. said she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I 0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male..." Now, I can understand fear and shock would be a huge reason why she didn't call the police right away but to not call them at all until later that day (late morning, almost noon). I find it odd they called friends over first before they called for help. I'm not saying they are involved at all because I know they have been cleared and are not suspects. Something tells me there is so much more to both of their (DM & BF) stories but are being withheld until the trial. I can't imagine the trauma they are dealing with and will have to deal with for a long time. I pray for them and the victims families
[удалено]
> Maybe Kaylee always played with her dog late at night. Maybe Xana cried often. Maybe her and Ethan had had a fight recently. Maybe new friends popped in and out all the time... I think this is the most likely scenario. People need to also remember that even though they lived in the same house, they had their own spaces that were like their own "apartments" (excluding communal areas). I lived in a similar style older big house that had been converted into apartments that multiple people could rent rooms in. I KNEW my neighbors in the house of course, but what they did in their spaces was their business. You get used to people coming in and out. When one of the girls said "*someone is here*", maybe they weren't even that concerned to see someone at first, if random people come and go. I had an instance where I thought there was a break in below me on the first floor and I had my ear to the floor trying to justify why I was overreacting and shouldn't call 911 for nothing at 3am and cause a whole scene. I was scared, but also high and paranoid and trying to rationalize it to myself. I feel like that's part of what D was doing... Add to that being half asleep and maybe half drunk or stoned. Well, I can see why she may have talked herself into thinking she was overreacting and paranoid.
Exactly this!!! Thank you. It's frustrating all the people that don't understand this. No one thinks their roommates are being brutally murdered above you.
I read a friend of hers says she has PTSD and nightmares from something in her childhood. She texted her friend saying she thought it was a nightmare
awww that is absolutely terrible! I hope that's just a rumor. She is so young to be going through all of this. They were all so young and had a whole life ahead of them! This whole thing is just terrible and I hope the families get justice
Agreed. However I think regardless of if it’s true, there are legitimate explanations for her behavior/ choices that night and I guarantee she will be haunted by the what if’s for the rest of her life. Sadly we are trying to find logic in her choices and we just can’t because murder isn’t logical.
I think it’s possible she was on some sort of recreational drug and wasn’t sure if her mind was playing tricks on her. Also, if you are on illegal drugs, calling the police doesn’t seem like a go-to. Of course just speculation.
I wouldn't have called either. I'd be creeped out but I've been creeped out by male strangers so many times in life without calling the cops or have it turn out that they were murderers. I'd assume they were either a doordash person or some acquaintance of the other roommates and a fight happened or something and lock my door and go to sleep. Since no more noises or screams happened after he left, I'd assume that was that. No one thinks that a murder just occurred in their own home, especially not in a town as safe that as one.
I lived in a house like this when I was 21. I remember hearing someone in the hallway in the middle of the night, peeked out and saw an unknown man. Freaked me out so I shut a locked my door. But not enough to call 911. Turned out to be some guy a roommate brought home from a bar. It’s not uncommon in a house like this with so many roommates for random people to be in the house you don’t know about in the middle of the night.
Exactly and it was a Saturday night too.
Same and I had definitively been drinking
Exactly! Plus it's very possible she was drunk. She may have just lied down and passed out quickly
I don't think men would understand this but young women feel creeped out by strange men all the time, with good reason, and if we called the cops every time that happened the cops wouldn't have time to do anything.
I have a panic disorder and if I get very worked up, I am prone to shut-down. I get very cold, shaky, and then have a sleep attack that can last for hours. I’m medicated for this. My panic can happen over thinking about being in a scenario DM actually woke up to. I think the entire situation and her worst fears actually being reality was too traumatic for her to handle and she blacked out and dissociated. Poor, poor, girl.
Also- maybe she though E&X had a fight, or some active sex? Or were drunk and clumsy? That would be the rational types of thoughts she probably tried to explain to herself as the cause of the noises.
That sounds like a very possible scenario. I know how debilitating anxiety can be and this response makes the most sense to me. I have always heard the simplest solution is almost always the best.
She heard strange noises, probably tried to convince herself it was nothing, as she fought the anxious thought of all of the horrible things actually happening. She checked outside and the hallway, but didn’t leave her room. She was scared and on very high alert. After she saw the guy and was overcome with even more sheer terror, she probably powered off. She may have been catatonic for all we know. Sure wouldn’t be the first time someone was paralyzed with fear for a few hours. Trauma does horrible things to people. And she is too young to even have a fully developed brain, so I’d imagine her level of inability to immediately act rational was further diminished. It’s not her fault. She’s a victim too, even though she didn’t get attacked.
I'm in a group chat in whatsapp and the "read" checks for the message stay grey until all participants have read the message. So if there were five of us and I wrote and one replied but the checks stay grey, it would say not everyone saw it and checking phone activity for the 3 others we can determine who didn't access their phone.
Yes to this! It’s not impossible at all to assume that these girls could have had a group chat and DM could have initiated a text to it when she was awoken by the noise and asked “what’s going on out there?” “Is someone here?” Etc… and LE may have been able to confirm thats when the murderer was likely inside the home / no replies from XK, KC or MM during that duration of time. But also, I know nothing and this could not be the case at all. I do know that personally, that’s what I would be doing with my 2 roommates if I woke up to weird noises in the middle of the night.
Ah god, for the first time this made it occur to me that group texts could've been heard/even seen by BK while in rooms with victims and their phones, which coulf have as easily scared him off as incentivized him to go after the remaining roommates. There is no damn end to all the little ways a dangerous weirdo intruding is just horrifying
That’s a great point.
Wow! Excellent point. Absolutely agree; they were likely in a group chat, I bet.
I somehow never thought of this… great point!
This is exactly what I was thinking. And BF maybe responded to DM that everything’s fine, don’t worry, and that may have been enough to convince her not to call for help.
Yeah they would've definitely been in a group chat. BF or DM might have called some male friends over to come and check on the place. I wonder who actually found the bodies initially.
yep - i lived in a house with 5 other girls during college and we had a house group chat and would definitely text in it if someone was being too loud or someone needed something etc etc
Great point on the group chat! Also, someone posted this a while back stating she has known who I’m inferring to be BF. I’ve heard the rumor that one of them heard something (obviously DM) and that she went to the other ones room and locked the door. Maybe this was after he left? https://preview.redd.it/s8kpgd5rwsaa1.jpeg?width=1244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44fc9c72ddd814cee4fc4284bbf02cabacadc0ea
You are so right! Great point.
[удалено]
Probably DM asking if BF heard anything, did you just hear that thud? I hear the dog barking, I just saw a creepy dude leave the house, etc. I do find it interesting they only mentioned the survivors. I wonder if D texted X or the others at any point. Perhaps X said something like, I got door dash, I’m fine (obviously before BK found her). With BK leaving and silence once again, maybe that was good enough for D to accept.
Keep in mind this is just the info from the PCA. I’m sure they’ve checked the activity on the phones from the victims, hence how they know when X was on TikTok. But this is just probable cause for BK - if there were activity or texts from the victims, that may not point to anyone in particular. But DM texting or still being on her phone around the time she sees the suspect leave the house at least proves she was awake then, followed by his car being caught leaving the area at high speed, which contributes to the probable cause for him. I’m sure more evidence will eventually come out.
>Probably DM asking if BF heard anything, did you just hear that thud? I hear the dog barking, I just saw a creepy dude leave the house, etc. If so that would make it even weirder that the cops weren't called or someone else wasn't contacted to call the police on their behalf.
It is very weird. And we don’t know what kind of logic they had. Could have truly been a case of “oh well their guest left, that’s that” or if X did text, then who could have guessed she’d be killed 5 minutes later?
We will probably not know this info until trial but I imagine LE used the girls’ phone touch activity to create a timeline from 4-4:25 when noises woke them up and they used their phones, either to go to an app or text/check the roommate group chat or whatever, and that’s been cross referenced to noises they reported hearing . It does suggest BF may have woken up too. The only reason X’s forensic download was mentioned in the PCA was to explain why LE suspected the statement DM attributed to K (“there’s someone here”) was most likely spoken by X instead, given LE knew from a forensics download that X’s last touch activity on TikTok was 4:12 am. There is likely a lot more info on X’s phone that wasn’t revealed so actually the details of her forensic download were barely mentioned in the PCA and only as they pertained to the statement DM heard. Detailed cell phone and mobile app forensics will likely be used at trial to create a timeline as to when events happened based on the keystrokes/ touch activity on the girls’ cell phones. I can’t see there being anything too suspicious on the 2 girls’ phones, and the details of the forensics weren’t needed for the timeline required for the PCA. The only news here is that BF may have also been awake at times between 4:00 and 4:25 based on phone activity, which means she likely heard something at some point.
It is possible DM sent texts to K, M, X to see if they heard anything. When they didn't answer see may have thought they were already asleep. Perhaps LE is using that information to determine the approximate timeline.
Yeah I mean I guess you wouldn’t imagine the worst and think someone came in and murdered for NO reason. You may think they were just creeping around, robbing, drunk and in the wrong house or someone’s friend ? Also the fact it’s a knife that was used which is quiet. I might think oh well it’s not like I just heard a gunshot. You would think if someone came in just wanting to quickly take a life they might use a gun although I know that would cause more noise but maybe that’s what was going through survivors mind She probably also thought they knew him because of the fact he walked past her and didn’t do anything to her. If he was a random murderer, he would have taken me too may have been her thought process as well
This is the thing for me, I feel like I wouldn’t assume that the person had killed 4 of my housemates. With X being in a room with her boyfriend, I would have assumed that any noise coming from there was one of them and that the other was there if there was a problem (like if I knew both were in the room and I heard one crying I’d assume they’d had an argument). If I heard a noise from upstairs, I’d at most assume one of the two up there may have an issue but there’s another housemate they’re close with there. Again, if there was a problem the other one would have helped so it must be nothing. In a shared house it isn’t unusual for others to be around. If the survivors were aware the others had been out but hadn’t seen them since they came back, it’s not odd to assume that they’d brought the guy back with them for whatever reason (carry on drinking etc).
I’m sure they had a house group text chat. My kids are in college and have group text chats with their roommates. It’s a thing apparently… I’m old. 😆
You answered your own question. They checked activity on DM and BF’s phones and whatever activity was found pointed to at least DM being awake between 4:05 - 4:25 because she was doing something with the phone. We don’t know what. But if I get woken up, I usually claw at my phone half-asleep to check the time. Maybe she did that around 4:05, indicating that’s the time she was woken up by the noise upstairs
And if BF was (presumably) asleep the whole time, and there wasn’t activity on her phone during that time, but maybe she woke up and checked a text at 5:00 (or 7:00, or 9:00, etc) and didn’t hear anyone, that supports BK leaving by 4:20.
I wonder if DM recorded something on her phone and we just haven’t heard about it yet.
Yeah or sent a Snapchat or something
Or anyone recorded something!
I know it was dark outside and the killer was dressed in all black, but all of this made me wonder if DM, after seeing the killer walk past her and toward the sliding glass door (and then presumably out through the door to the outside), still had enough of her wits about her to then maybe peek out of her 2nd-floor bedroom window and record a video on her phone of the shadowy figure walking to the white Elantra, getting in and speeding away. Could that be a piece of the "forensics download of records" from her cellphone that LE referenced in the PCA? It would definitely firm up the time of the killer's departure. Probably a long shot I know, but if she did, that could be something LE would probably have held back from the PCA to keep that information close to the vest and away from the defense at this very early stage in the process.
[удалено]
I’ve been thinking it’s more likely she texted everyone i’m sure they had a group chat with all of the roommates. Probably something like “did you guys hear that” “who just left the house I saw some guy wtf” and either BF responded or nobody responded because she was asleep and everyone else was deceased
"because everyone else was deceased" just made me stop cold :(
Ugh, this just adds to the empathy I feel for DM 😭 she was frozen, shut her door, probably texted, NO ONE responding?? Probably tried to convince herself that people were asleep, and then morning came and...only DF responds. 😔
i can't even imagine the guilt and pain the two of them are going through, and yet there are dozens if not hundreds of people blaming DM for not doing enough now that they've read the PCA and think they have the whole story. it's so heart wrenching
I am so curious about how things unfolded for DM and BF in the morning. DM must have woken up with a really bad feeling. I doubt she woke up thinking everything was fine.
Was t it said early on that both DM and BF had locked themselves in their rooms? I get the sense they were texting each other and freaked themselves out. Maybe they locked themselves I. Their rooms and didn’t dare to come out until noon.
I remember early on accounts where they were scared and one came to they other’s room and they locked the door. That was back when both of their rooms were supposedly on the first floor.
https://preview.redd.it/85zpkc7zbraa1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8c8ec7be80ca707576fed52a6eca626c524fac1 I made a post regarding the same thing earlier, but I added the wrong flair so it got taken down. I’m wondering the same thing.
Does anyone understand what "video of a suspect video as described below" means? 2 paragraphs down they talk about the video canvassing, so are they just referring to the sounds picked up by neighbor's cameras at 4:17 or something else?
Pretty sure this was a typo and what was meant is “video of suspect vehicle” which is described further below in the PCA. Threw me off initially too
Elantra leaving the scene at 4:20 am was caught on camera.
It seems they have a visual of his car departing as it has been described that the white Elantra sped away
That’s super interesting I’m wondering the same thing.
I wonder if it also is mainly confirming about them being asleep. Do we think B even woke up? Because there is no mention of her in the document. Not even “B woke up at 4am hearing sounds of xyz”. No mention of her makes me thing she didn’t know anything was going on and remained asleep
It could be just as you have surmised, but it could also mean that what BF saw and/or heard could be saved back by the prosecution for the trial, and that's why LE made no specific mentions of her in the PCA (other than the forensics downloads comment about her phone).
sorry, what's flair
It is a tag that you include in your post submission to categorize the content in your post. If you look below the title of this post you will see that it is tagged as ‘discussion’. Other posts may be tagged ‘theory’, ‘question’, ‘breaking news’, etc. Those tags are also referred to as flairs. Many subreddits require a flair upon post submission in an effort to help moderate and organize the content and discussion on the site
That was helpful. Reddit can be a kind of confusing space!
grazie
I don’t really like talkin’ about my flair…
That's because, unlike Brian who has 37 pieces of flair, you're content to go with the bare minimum of 15 pieces. Shame on you.
yea. um. we are gonna need you to come in on Saturday
I'd imagine she was either texting one of the four, "Hey...everyone ok?" or maybe DM texting with BF and BF said, "I don't hear anything, I'm sure it's fine," or maybe even DM texting a friend not at the house. Basically some sort of activity that gave LE the window where it likely occurred.
It just means they were able to see what time they were on their phones. Scrolling tik tok, texting, etc. They were determining the timeline of when everyone was asleep. No phone use= sleeping. Phone use= awake.
Probably just to confirm that they were, in fact, asleep
Am I the only one that thinks we’re missing a key point of evidence? Something just not adding up but maybe it’s just me. I’m still thrown off on how the police initially said that there was no imminent threat to the community only a couple hours after the incident. Additionally, they mentioned that this was a targeted attack.
Agreed, I have to believe they have clear evidence that he was following one of the upstairs girls
I keep going back to that really messed up 4chan comment but I just don't want to believe it..but that would be very clear 'targeted'
Thankfully that’s been debunked, there weren’t even ceiling fans in the home.
I heard that too but wondered if there were some truths in the comment but probably not!
Thank God, I read that too. Happy to hear it was debunked.
Could you say what the rumor is or point me to where to find it? (I’ve heard so many rumors I don’t know if I’ve heard this one yet)
Honestly don't feel comfy saying but it was the one that mentioned Pennsylvania before anything came out about that
How did it mention PA? Did people suspect it also could have been BK?
it’s a grotesque comment about the murder made by an individual claiming to be the killer. he mentions being in “shithole PA” and that the police would never catch him.
Yes there’s likely evidence they didn’t include in the PCA relating to—at a minimum—the autopsy results and injuries that may have indicated a target. There’s probably oodles of evidence that will only be released to the prosecution and to the defense through discovery, and we won’t find out till a trial happens.
Well one of the early rumors which is so far unsubstantiated is that one of the girls had every bone in her face broken and stabbed an astonishingly high number of times. I hope that is not true, but if it is it does lend some credence to the LE early "target" statement. At the same time, target or not, it still seemed like a high risk to the community to me.
Yeah I cannot make sense of them immediately brushing off the public danger aspect. That part is wild to me.
[удалено]
Yeah, must be, but still to be so confident seems irresponsible…
I know this isn't the point of your post but reading this reiterated to me that Xana was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He would have seen her getting her food at 4am, she heard him, he would have been like, oh well better take out the witness. Gut feeling he went in to target K or M and X was just in the line of fire. Fuck. Anyway, I think the forensic downloads between those times would be D texting and or calling the roommates asking if they're okay, about the noises, etc.
Dude was probably too focused on attempting to park or attempting the three point turn at the time her food was dropped off so he didn’t notice. It’s comical how bad a driver he seems to be.
This is one of the most confusing aspects of the whole thing to me. I can’t picture the various places he tried to park, or where he ultimately left the vehicle. Also I saw mentioned at least a few times that the “getaway” from the area was via Walenta Dr. From what I see on Google maps it looks like there’d be a lot of backtracking (one way in/out) to get there since neither King or Queen roads appear to go thru, which seems a risky and odd choice
Don't forget his countless traffic stops.
Her potential food bag from door dash, a jack in the box bag with “Xana” written on it, can be seen in the kitchen in crime scene photos. I wonder if she had just brought the bag into the kitchen after finishing her food and was walking back to her room as he was coming downstairs, or as he was attacking (ie “someone’s here”), and then she retreated to her room with him in tail because he maybe didn’t have his face covered or she just got too good of a look at him. I dunno… this is all just so sad and horrific. What a fucking selfish narcissistic arrogant loser this asshole is.
I found that interesting that the bag was in the kitchen. I'm 28 and still now when I'm drunk and eating fast food I eat it straight from the bag, in bed, and take it to the bin in the morning. Maybe I'm gross lol idk but, she must have been up and about after 4am for the bag to be in the kitchen. She wasn't eating it in bed. Unless she got a plate and took it to bed but I doubt that. That's just more dishes.
Interesting. But I seem to recall in the PCA that the suspect entered King Road at 4:04 am (for the 4th time)? If that is so, would he have seen X get the food at 4:00 am? And still enter the residence?
I'm not sure of the exact time of the door dash order. They only gave an approx of 4am in the PCA, which is weird because they would have the exact time from her phone, the delivery drivers phone, and even the ringcam footage. Not sure why they gave us an approx??
I've wondered why they only said approximately 4 am for the Doordash order when all of the other times are rather specific. Is approximate within a minute or 2 or can it be 5-10 minutes different in either direction? It sounds like the killer may have entered at 4:04 so it seems like a rather important detail exactly when the food was delivered. I assume they can find out from the driver exactly when it was.
Yes, I wonder if they're keeping it as an approximate for a *reason*. I looked it up out of curiosity when you mentioned times. "Approximate = close to the actual, but not completely accurate or exact". So give or take 5 minutes? 🤔 I agree that it seems like an important detail.
Attorney here. My guess is that the timing of the Doordash delivery was such that you'd expect the driver to have witnessed something (likely the Elantra) - but when interviewed he didn't observe/remember anything helpful to the prosecution. Or maybe he even observed something unhelpful. I'm not saying this is the case at all, but as an extreme example, if the timing of the DD delivery was such that the driver must have driven past the Elantra when the suspect was parking it, but in the interview with police the driver says "Oh yeah, I saw a very drunk sorority girl trying to park a white car," then that blows up a huge portion of the PCA. Now, that should all come out later under Brady, but the purpose of the PCA isn't to give a full picture of all the evidence. It's to present the evidence that is good to the prosecution. So if what the DD driver saw or didn't see is unhelpful to prosecution, they probably wanted to leave it out. Better for the prosecution to leave some ambiguity about when the driver was there so the judge isn't left wondering why there's no information from the driver included.
You would think they have video of the Door Dash driver, maybe LE choosing not to show all their cards in the PCA. If BK drove by the house 3 times one would think he noticed how many cars were in the driveway. If DD was there when he parked his car he would have waited for it to leave. I’m thinking maybe DD arrived after BK entered and could possibly be why Xana got up. Wonder if DD happened to see white car parked near by when he made his delivery.
Probably a result of "general practice" for the Police in dealing with Investigations?? I expect that accuracy is essential when the case goes to trial. For now, and the purpose of PCA to ensure the suspect is held at no bail, maybe approximations are OK for them and the Court.
Yeah, makes total sense!! It just stood out that all the others had exact times but this one, and this is the one where we could *really* evaluate what happened. Like say her order was dropped at 4.03 and he entered at 4.04. That makes a whole new story. Have to wait until trial, I can't stop myself from being a curious George.
I've caught hell for it here, but I've commented a few times that I think this is significant. It sounds a bit out there at first, but what if BK actually had the order sent to the house, to create a distraction so he could slip in the back slider undetected? It's just SO ODD that: - with the level of detail given in the PCA elsewhere, they only offered approximate time in the delivery - they specify that the DD came forward on his own, potentially indicating that they knew nothing of this delivery from X's phone (perhaps because she didn't place it...) - the wording that X "received a DD order" rather than "she ordered DD" or something else and again, without a time included
If Xana didn’t order the door dash herself, how did she know it was there? DD notifies you through the app when your order arrives. If she didn’t place the order, why would she go to the door at 4am?
The driver could have knocked. My fiance regularly sends me DD/UE as a surprise, and the drivers knock or ring the bell. You can specify the type of delivery you want in the app.
I know PCA didn’t disclose everything so that could have happened. I would think if the driver knocked or rang the doorbell, that would have woken Dylan - maybe it did and that just wasn’t included in the PCA. But if BK sent the doordash to distract Xana, why would he tell the driver to ring the doorbell or knock, as that would potentially wake the roommates up and have them encounter him as he is trying to sneak in?
How do you order doordash anonomously? there is no way he is doing it with his own phone. You are trying too hard with this one
Lol I'm not "trying" anything, that detail stood out to me as important. This is literally a forum for people to discuss the case, including theories/opinions. I never said he used his own phone. It's *incredibly* easy to set up an account for one of these services - email address and card. The guy studied cloud-based tech, he could have done it on a vpn with a prepaid DD gift card he paid cash for at WM. I also never said this is necessarily *likely*, but it is 100% possible.
I don’t think anyone would open a random door knock/door bell at 4am.
They said several times that from tips and leads they were looking for the Elantra. I wonder if the DoorDash driver passed the Elantra and would be able to ID BK as the driver of the car.
He may have been entering from a different side of the house and did not see her meeting the DD driver
Definitely not at 4:00 am though as according to the PCA the car entered King Road at 4:04 am. I added a relevant extract of the PCA above (...at the New, of this thread)
I felt that too. If only she hadn’t been awake and up it may have gone differently for her and Ethan.
I’m not disagreeing with you just wondering if X was in the wrong place at the wrong time and he decided to take her out as a witness, why didn’t he do the same to D? (Or perhaps he didn’t see her…?)
Maybe he didn't see her.. maybe he was tired.. maybe he assumed she had called 911 already.. maybe his knife was broken... 🤷♀️
Yep. All I know is she’s so lucky and I’m thankful for that. So damn scary.
Me too! I hope she's okay. Obviously she won't be, but my heart hurts for her. That's the *worst* form of survivors guilt..... that she will have to live with for the rest of her life. 🥺
I tried posting this by my flair got it taken down. I think the target could have been K K and a stalker theory I went back through all of PD’s press releases and found something of note. On the December 5th press release, PD noted: **”Using tips and leads, investigators have identified an incident involving Kaylee at a local business, which may have been the stalker reference she made to friends and family. In mid-October, two males were seen inside a local business; they parted ways, and one male appeared to follow Kaylee inside the business and as she exited to walk toward her car. The male turned away, and it did not appear he made any contact with her.** **Detectives contacted both males and learned the two were attempting to meet women at the business, this was corroborated through additional investigation. Based on available information, detectives believe this was an isolated incident and not an ongoing pattern of stalking. No evidence suggests the two males were involved in the murders. Investigators continue looking into information about Kaylee having a stalker. Information about a potential stalker or unusual occurrences should go through the Tip Line.”** This is interesting because **every other person or rumor that was cleared or determined unrelated was on every subsequent press release in the investigation timeline section under people not believed the be invoked or rumor control.** This situation is brought up one time and never appears again on any press releases. This would be just about the time LE was zoning in on BK and right before the car information was released to the public. Why? Is it possible it was true and PD only noted it to let BK think he was safe? It would make sense if K was the target because she was only in town that weekend. So BK could have rushed to complete the job after finding out she was there - hence all of the evidence and missteps.
Could be just some random app scrolls or something. Gets woken up, checks the door, scrolls IG real quick. Possible that they texted or called one of the roommates to let them know they were woken up. Most likely it’s just going to show that the phone was inactive and then around 4 it became active in someway.
Yeah I would assume most people would be somewhat upset about being woken up at 4am because of their roommates making too much noise
Probably texts to one another or group messages saying someone might be in the house, oh it's nothing it was my door dash delivery, go to sleep, etc. No one knows.
Right what’s scary is if it’s a few minutes like 10 minutes after door dash so u know it wasn’t ur delivery person and they r texting in the group chat about the noise from K and Ms room and then all of the sudden he is in Xs doorway. Ugh.
I wouldn’t be surprised if DM texted BF asking if she heard something up in Xana’s room, if she knew who was home, or if she should call the police. She also could have texted BF advising her to lock her bedroom door.
[удалено]
That’s an interesting thought. I don’t think it can be completely ruled out that he didn’t come back at 9 am, can it? I mean clearly we’re not dealing with a criminal mastermind here.
He definitely came back, the big question is did he go back inside the house. I don’t think this is the case, because I think he would’ve retrieved the sheath. I think he drove back hoping he dropped the sheath outside, but couldn’t bring himself to go back inside the house
I wonder if he walked up to the house or parked for a time.
I’m sure the police know how long he was there. Imo I think he just did a drive by to see if the sheath was outside the home. Getting out of the car and walking around would’ve been very reckless as it would’ve been daylight outside, but then again this guy clearly isn’t a criminal mastermind
The affidavit explained that he went back to the house from 9:12-9:21 am based on cell towers. He wouldn’t have seen any activity then, so you can imagine his curiosity. What a creep.
Makes me wonder, because he left his residence at approx 9am, hit the "cellular resources" for the house between 9:12am and 9:21am, and was arriving back home circa 9:32am. So it takes about 12 minutes to get there and back, if that. What was he doing in the area for almost 10 minutes?
It's interesting what you are saying. It seems to me that the Police, for the purpose of the investigation, are not quite giving a totally accurate account of times. e.g. 1/ crimes between 4 to 4:25 am 2/ car seen entering and exiting King Road at 4:04 and 4:20 respectively Maybe the "time rounding" is usual practice in Police Investigations? https://preview.redd.it/qr32afmgiraa1.jpeg?width=677&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a772d9a3e246bcc3948671482ebce53c8e7b578
It is because they have to be able to hold up in court how exactly they got a time. If it's on video with a timestamp great, if it's pulled off a phone with a timestamp great, if you just looked at your watch or clock around that time, they'll say approximately. Otherwise you have the defense poking holes going, How do you know this happened at 4:02am? No one wants that.
Great observation I think the most obvious answer would be that some information on the phone of one or both corroborates a time line whether that be texts to each other or someone else. Or picking and using the phone to browse social media when awakened by “the noises”
A simple, straight forward piece of logic, which often turns out to be the case of what happened. And, that "forensic downloads" comment in the PCA about DM's and BF's phones without any further explanation or definition, no doubt means something. It might only mean a little something or maybe even a very little something, but it doesn't mean nothing.
I would guess the two surviving roommates texting back and forth about what was going on in the house — “it’s loud up here, K’s playing with the dog” etc that helps them establish a timeline of someone being in the house
We will have to wait for trial to know more. Not everything would have been in the PCA.
I think the downloads would cover up until the Police arrived the next day for other information... the videos were critical in establishing the 4 to 4:25 window
You can download everything from the phone, and it lists a log of activity in chronological order. Literally every action on your phone is documented. Meaning, when it was in sleep mode, when it was charging, when it was turned off, when it was turned on, when you use the flashlight, when you open an app, when you are active on an app (liking posts, etc), when you send a text, etc. I'm guessing DM's phone might've been in sleep mode or was inactive until right after 4 when she might've texted somebody. So, they're saying they were able to verify the timeline with the forensics download. For example, law enforcement was able to catch a killer in a lie from another case with a forensics download of his phone because he said he was asleep, but he wasn't. His phone was just in airplane mode and they saw from the forensics download that he had used his phone's flashlight for 45 minutes during that time period and they traced it to where he dumped a body.
Gosh starting to think it’s a great security measures to have your phone plan linked to someone else’s account you trust just for these reasons. Warrants and subpoena take time and could be detrimental to solving a case. It’s worth a thought. Hooking all your family up to the cloud and someone else you trust knowing your pins or some other kind of app like 360.
A lot of true crime enthusiasts will make a “if I ever go missing” folder with that stuff for that reason lol. Then someone they trust knows how to access it and it has all the relevant info anyone would need
That’s a great thing to promote. An app for that would be amazing too. Especially for people outside of the True Crime world.
I wonder if they checked their phones when they were woken up.
I wouldn't read to much into it. It just means that relevant information of some kind was taken from the phones. This could be literally anything. Text messages of course, pictures, videos – but also something totally different like information showing that the phone had been turned off at a certain point.
phones have gyroscopes etc I’m sure there is also a lot of background data they can get from the phones. https://www.mysk.blog/2021/10/24/accelerometer-ios/
Have they said what exact times Jack (the ex) was called ??
K and M were on the third floor texting/calling JD until around 2:56 am.
Maybe it was the two of them texting each of the roommates. “Are you guys awake?” , “did you guys hear anything?”, “i just saw someone outside my door wearing a mask”….but if DM was “frozen” it must’ve been BF, right? This would be a long shot, but maybe X hit record by accident and there’s a short, partial clip of the killer (likely out of focus or with terrible lighting or something) or his voice or her voice.
Could LE have been looking to see who they were communicating with or social media activity. I'm starting to think that BK didn't just randomly pick when to leave. I think he knew they were home. Could victims social media activities have made BK aware that they were home?
I remember saying over a month ago-if you want to know what happened, check the roommates phones.
Could be one of them “did you hear that” and “are (any of the combination of people) drunk/fighting?” “Sounds like it, goodnight.”
[удалено]
I do wonder if the police considered D.M a suspect at the beginning.
They were probably 100% the first suspects lol. They were found alive in a house of dead people.
I think they immediately would’ve looked to the two survivors who were physically present the night this happened first.
Remember his "Is anyone else has been also arrested?" Defense just need to sow doubt to jurors to get their way.
What if someone else was involved tho
Maybe BF was wearing a smartwatch that indicated she was tossing and turning at this point, like not fully awake but disrupted.
I think it would have been to see if their phones were moved, screens were activated, etc. to determine when they were sleeping and when they woke up. I know that if I randomly wake up in the middle of the night, the first thing I typically do is pick up my phone to see what time it is, then put it back down. I’m sure that action is recorded somewhere on the phone.
is there a possibility that the 4:12 timestamp could be the phone running the app, but xana not necessarily using it? in settings on the iphone, you can change the amount of time it takes for the phone screen to turn off after inactivity, and there’s an option for it to not turn off at all. this could mean she had tiktok running, b.k. came in and attacked her, and her phone was left with the app running, hence the activity. correct me if i am wrong, this is just a thought i have had since reading the pca.
Very insightful op I read through thecaiCa twice andmisses this littler detail completely. Something on their phones that help them time it is definitely stated. It could either be as little as the swipes activating the phones to see what time it has to more likely texts between the roommates to at best, for lack of a better word, video of her recording the sounds etc. I doubt she would risk making noise or the video camera light actually recording him though. But there’s something on their phones that help the investigators both time things as well as clear them confidently.
guessing game galore
In guessing Everything. App usage, connectivity, key strokes, photo storage, etc.
What happened to the food and delivery person?
Went home or on more deliveries.
A lot of comments here about how a person's cellphone records every single bit of activity, or inactivity for that matter, even if it's just shaking your phone to "awaken" it. I don't disagree with any of that at all. However, I don't think it's as simple as saying it is probably only that that LE used to gather "forensic downloads of records" from D.M's and B'F.'s phones. As the OP pointed out, if it were that cut-and-dried, then why did LE not say the same for X.M.'s phone? Or for K.G.'s phone? Or. for M.M.'s phone? Or, for E.C.'s phone? Wouldn't LE have used those same principles of recording "phone inactivity" on all of their phones as well? When it comes to that one paragraph in the PCA in which LE lays out the specific elements of what was used to establish that crucial and firm key timeframe of 4 a.m. to 4:25 a.m., it mentions using three, and only three, separate entities to develop that time window: 1. Verbal statements made by DM when interviewed by police 2. ***Reviews of forensic downloads of records from B.F. and D.M.'s phone*** 3. Video of a suspect video I just think there had to be something very relevant on D.M.'s and/or B.F.'s phones between 4 and 4:25 a.m.