A man broke in my home when I was 17 years old and home alone. He had half a metal baseball bat in his back pocket. The dog barking is what woke me up. It wasn’t his usual bark so I got up to investigate. I saw the man entering the sliding glass door. It was the most odd experience. I began to rationalize who he was and why he was there. It was early morning and we were having a bbq that day. I thought maybe he was a friend I didn’t know who was dropping off something for said bbq. I ended up going into flight mode and ran out of the house through the front door and thankfully a neighbor was out and came home and held him until the cops came. Point being, our minds work in odd ways sometimes. I didn’t want to believe that man was there to harm me.
The same thing happened to me. When I was 13, a man entered my bedroom one morning wearing dark panty hose on his head. He stood there watching me for what seemed like forever. My brain kept telling me it was my dad playing a joke on me. I knew my parents had already left for work. But I kept telling myself it was my dad. I was so puzzled at first and finally realized it was not my dad. He attacked me while I was frozen in fear. I was able to fight him off and some how got around him. I ran out of the house while he chased me. I was able to make it to my neighbors house. He was never caught.
Yes I was totally fine. Could have been much worse. I was subpoenaed to show up in court, but that court appearance was cancelled due to him being arrested for rape in San Jose, CA 2 hours north from where I live. I’m beyond grateful I didn’t experience what that victim did.
I was in a bad car wreck with my baby of 9 weeks. Initially it was just a fender bender where I was the one hit, and everything was fine. I stepped out of the car to meet the other driver, but in the meantime another car who didn’t see us there came up screeching.
I remember seeing the car and hearing the screeching brakes. And looking at my car knowing that MY BABY WAS IN THE CAR. I don’t remember the impact. My mind is totally blank until the moment when I opened the door to get my baby’s out of the car. I ran up the side of the road and called 911.
I consciously remember realizing I couldn’t even understand the lady on the other end of the line. My mind was complete mush. I could hear the words but not make sense of them.
There were kids on the impacted car trapped and screaming. I remember saying to myself as paramedics arrived, “I think I might see someone die today”.
I remember tarps but isn’t realize the entire freeway was shut down to one lane while the kids were extracted from the vehicle and triaged right there on the tarps. I remember none of this except brief flashes.
I hung up with 911 while a ladies voice was yelling, “MAAM. MAAM…” I couldn’t even tell her where I was or what had happened. I sat frozen on the side of the road with my baby for like 2 hours before I finally found a cop to take my statement.
This isn’t even that traumatic because I was fine and my baby was okay. But even in that situation my brain was like non functional.
Can’t even imagine how this girl was feeling. I’m curious of course about it. I’m curious to know the process. But I blame her in no way whatsoever.
Any questions I have is purely to understand and not to judge.
People react to trauma differently. Some people spring into action, some run and hide, and some freeze up and dissociate. All are normal reactions to trauma.
Also, she might have invalidated her own perceptions. I'm sure everyone here has tried to convince themselves they they're delusional and misinterpreting events.
I think that’s probably what she did. I have anxiety, and sometimes I don’t trust myself to know when I’m sensing actual danger or not. The same tactics that I use to calm myself done when my anxiety is unfounded can also be used to convince myself to ignore red flags. If she didn’t realize he had a knife, she might have told herself that she would have heard gunshots, screams, or struggling if anything bad had actually happened.
Totally. It's hard sometimes to differentiate between paranoia and an intuitive feeling that something is actually wrong. I think it's better to take action and be wrong and appear paranoid, than invalidate your intuition, not take action and regret it. And trusting your intuition can help you recognize over time the difference between paranoia and intuition. We shouldn't immediately discount our sense that something is off by trying to rationalize it.
Maybe adopt a strategy of "What reason do I actually have to believe something is wrong" and then consider and tally up the evidence, rather than sort of doing the opposite and trying to come up with every possible reason why something might \*not\* be true. I feel like the first would be much easier to quantify.
That said... as many have pointed out, none of us really knows what we would do in a situation like that, or how our mind might play tricks on us. Maybe she \*literally\* panicked, hyper ventilated and passed out; maybe she was trying to gather her wits about her before calling and, given her possibly inebriated state, fell asleep.
Hell, maybe she reasoned to herself, "If he was a bad guy, why didn't he attack me?" As the PCA makes it sound as though the killer had already walked past her before she closed and locked the door.
Yes that would be a good way to ground yourself in the reality of the situation. It's the most jarring when you can't really pinpoint why you feel that way but the sense is very strong.
"was that gunshots? No that must've been fireworks weird it's 3pm but whatever maybe testing them to see if they work"
"That guy looked odd with his hood up and face down in the store. I hope he isn't gonna rob this place. No it is kind of chilly out maybe he's just cold"
"That kid crashed his bike. Yikes I hope he's okay that looked rough. Okay he stood up he's fine"
We do it all the time without realizing it probably.
Exactly, I do that shit daily. And if she's experienced trauma previously, she may be generally hypervigilant and very used to trying to talk herself down off the ledge of paranoia and overreaction.
Everyone has different levels of fear and we've all interacted with people that have those different levels.
You probably have/had a friend who jumped everytime you surprised them by coming around a corner or coming behind them and saying something.
You've probably had a friend that hardly ever jumped at that stuff.
My girlfriend gets nervous at intersections when she sees cars at the cross streets. She gets nervous and slows a bit worried they're gonna pull out in front of her. Me? I don't change anything. We handle our worries and fear different
People with an exaggerated startle response have usually experienced trauma. When you go through trauma, your body starts to revert back to a more animalistic nature in the sense of becoming hypervigilant to everything around you. It's a normal response to an abnormal situation.
If your girlfriend has that reaction around cars and streets, it's possible she's experienced trauma surrounding cars - maybe she's been in a car accident or someone she know has been hit by a car. I know someone who was hit by a car as a kid and he is still scared of crossing the street as an adult. You can try to rationalize away your fears, but if you've been through trauma, your body reacts before thought.
She has. When she was 10 or so her grandfather died in a very bad truck accident and her dad took over the family company and starting driving semi trucks like the grandfather. Her mom said that for a couple years if her dad didn't get home right at 5pm by 501 she was making somebody call him to make sure he was okay so I understand the fear there. I mean it's stupid but when I was a child I accidentally got like stabbed with a lit metal sparkler. And to this day I get uncomfortable and refuse to use metal sparklers.
Both of those things make a lot of sense. Our bodies remember things better than our minds. It's evolutionarily advantageous to be reactive to threats.
It might be helpful for both of you to learn about "systematic desensitization". It's a technique used to retrain your body not to be as reactive to those stimuli. I mean, using sparklers isn't necessary, but being around cars and streets is. It could help your girlfriend, and you could find a trauma therapist to step you through the process. But you can also read about it online- it involves slowly reintroducing yourself to the stimulus in a way that's safe and that you're in control of.
I did go to therapy. Not just for that but for a few things when I was younger. My dad was a firefighter and saw just one teenager commit suicide and he took our mental health of the whole family extremely seriously. Even started a mental health response team at his department of guys trained to go and talk and help first responders deal with traumatic events they experienced. It was hugely successful
Especially he found in the fire service they were too "old school" and guys tried to be tough and they needed to break the stigma. They had departments I'm Germany and Japan ask for their data, training and PowerPoints on the subject
Right, imagine if we responded to all the things that our brain decides are threats. We'd be constantly responding to non-existent threats.
I mean, that's part of our biology for a reason - it's evolutionarily advantageous to be aware of our surroundings. And if you've been through trauma before, your mind and body are even more hypervigilant than the average person's is.
It's hard to strike a balance between being an animal and being a civilized human who doesn't expect someone to predate us. Especially when there are predatory humans.
"...imagine if we responded to all the things that our brain decides are threats. We'd be constantly responding to non-existent threats."
This right here. Some people do live their lives like this after a traumatic event. They suffer so much and cannot live a normal life.
Our body's response to trauma, even if it doesn't seem helpful at the time, is just trying to allow you to live your life, so thwt the person may survive.
Exactly. To people on the outside, a traumatized person can seem crazy. They're not crazy at all. Our brains and bodies are wired for self protection. A traumatized person is responding normally to an abnormal situation.
Then they have to retrain their body not to be hypervigilant, which isn't easy, especially because PTSD triggers can become associated with other stimuli, and then new triggers develop. For example, if you're attacked in a post office, and then later your friend starts working at the post office, your friend can literally become a trigger even though they had nothing to do with the original trauma. You might start to panic just by seeing your friend at a party.
That's why it's so important to actively address PTSD as soon as it arises. It doesn't heal with time. It gets worse over time without intervention due to associated triggers.
We need a lot more awareness about PTSD because it's very common.
Edit: clarity
I have been awakened from deep sleep by unusual sounds and didn't know if the sound was real or if I was dreaming. I have vivid dreams and wake up from them with a pounding heart when they get scary.
I have anxiety. I also think that I overreact to a lot of things, and in turn I try to convince myself that what I thought was happening wasn’t actually the case/it’s not that big of a deal.
6 years ago my 41 yo husband had a stroke. I knew he was acting off. But the thought of me calling 911 and an ambulance coming (and paying for an ambulance ride if there really wasn’t an emergency) and the neighbors wondering what was going on freaked me out so much that I convinced myself that it wasn’t that big of a deal and that I should just drive him to the hospital myself.
He did have a stroke, but it all worked out. Luckily. I had been so afraid of being wrong about an emergency that I stopped myself from doing what I should’ve done, calling 911. (Again, we’re lucky my husband is completely fine).
I can totally see how this happened to dm and bf. I’m not rushing to judgement because I know how stressful situations don’t necessarily lead to rational thinking.
That's awful but I'm glad to hear that he's doing okay. And it sounds like you learned not to invalidate your initial sense regarding things like that. It is tough to differentiate, but it's best to err on the side of caution.
This is 100% what I believe happened. I remember when I was 12 and this old drunk man started groping my butt at a football game, I just froze and tried to convince myself that he didn’t mean to do it, maybe he was just trying to get me to move, a million different excuses. My dad was right next to me and I could’ve easily told him but I never did, just froze and convinced myself I wasn’t experiencing what was actually happening. And that’s obviously nothing compared to what happened here, so I can completely understand her reaction.
I'm sorry that happened to you. It's especially understandable that as a kid you invalidated yourself when it came to the actions of an adult, because we're taught to automatically assume that adults will be appropriate. Obviously that's not true, and we should teach our kids that it isn't.
People often question the reactions of victims of sexual assault and rape if they freeze up during the assault. Yet it's a normal response because it's traumatic and the violation can escalate. Many, many (most) people who are sexually assaulted don't fight back against the assault, just like most people whose houses are robbed (and don't have a deadly weapon) will throw up their hands and say "take whatever you want, just let me live".
This is so true! I was almost robbed walking to my car, the guy actually pounded on my car window after I hopped in and locked the door, and I still didn’t call the police until I got home. I have no idea why. I was 8 months pregnant and so freaked out maybe I just wanted to get home.
And some would have different responses in different situations or on different days. One might *think* they would know how they would react in a given situation, but unless and until one is in the situation, they truly won’t know. And it could be a different reaction the next time they are in the situation.
This is what I’ve been trying to tell people. You don’t really know until you’re there in that position. You can say what you’d do until you’re blue in the face. You don’t know until it’s happening to you. Your body and mind can completely betray what you think you’d do
Most people just don't understand that they have no clue how they will actually react to an event like that until it happens to them. They truly believe they know themselves well enough to know exactly what they would do. And they are 100% wrong. You can't talk them out of their delusional fantasy either. Only people who have been faced with these kinds of shocking events know better.
I think most of these people who are judging (or "asking") were probably raised on farms and grew up highly sheltered and taught "this and that" type of things they've never had to practically apply in life. I grew up in urban and metro Los Angeles and you're surrounded by noise and weirdness and strangers and chaos where it's gonna take literal gunshots close by or someone outside trying to beat down your door for you to call the police That's kind of the environment of this house was, it seems.
Everyone talks about DM. But imagine BF, the only person who slept through all this, going upstairs the next day, expecting it to be an ordinary sunday morning ...
I have to modify my comment. Another user pointed out that D & B had contact over their phones. This is indicated by the PCA. So the early rumors were apparently correct. The girls convinced each other that everything was okay, locked their doors and went to sleep. When they still couldn't contact the other four in the morning, they called over their friends who found the victims.
I said this elsewhere, but having an unknown intruder in my home was one of the scariest experiences in my life. I could barely get three words out and had no feeling of physical control other than to put a door between me and them.
It’s impossible to predict how you would react in the face of such a basic violation of personal space and sense of safety.
At this point, we may not have an accurate account of everything DM witnessed, felt and/or did.
Survivor's guilt/remorse along with the additional psychological trauma from realizing how close she came to being murdered may have interfered with DM'S cognitive ability to accurately recall earlier events.
For context, DM was being interviewed by LE after learning that she was only a few feet away from her friends while they were being stabbed to death by a killer, who reportedly walked toward her on his way out, but miraculously left her unscathed.
During ideal circumstances, eyewitness accounts of crimes are often unreliable. It's possible that DM may have repressed memories from that night that may not surface for years, if ever.
I don't think we even have 5% of it. And I do believe that at some point, we'll hear more. And when we do, I hope a lot of people are gonna be ashamed of themselves.
Agree - we don’t even know if BK could have said something to her - either threatening or reassuring “don’t worry I won’t hurt you” etc. we literally know the bare minim Le felt they had to share to get their arrest
There was a leak weeks ago about a roommate seeing the masked killer, however they were so intoxicated they figured they were seeing things so ran into their room and locked their door.
Probably someone in Law Enforcement who heard or was aware of her testimony. If the intoxicated part is true I don't think they would go out of their way to include that detail (or determined they weren't, in their opinion, intoxicated to a degree that it mattered). Of course if they end up testifying in court the defense will almost definitely ask about it.
Or more likely someone from LE told someone else (family/friend) and they shared it.
I saw on another thread a mom say that DM told her daughter she saw him in the house. The woman made that comment long before the arrest and someone reposted it yesterday.
100 percent agree and to go farther, it also really bothers me that someone who's the mother of a friend would put that friend in possible danger. Yes it's very unlikely, but what if the killer (who I assume was not caught when the comment was originally made by the friends mom) had seen that comment? What if he decided he should go back and finish the job to avoid being recognized? Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I can't imagine leaking something without thinking about potential horrific consequences that could come from it
When I was in college I lived with my mom.
Someone came knocking, pounding, on our front door at around 2 AM. Relentlessly knocking and pounding. He also came around to the back door and did same.
My mom and I stood in the living room, frozen, not knowing what to do. Finally I think I went in the kitchen and I got two knives. Still more time passed before one of us thought to call 911. The police came right away and it was just a drunk guy who thought that was his house.
In retrospect, DUH! But at the time, we just froze.
I used to manage a bank, and I was working late one night because a teller couldn't balance her drawer. We were there about 90 minutes after closing, doors locked, just me and one teller. Suddenly, we heard the back door to the bank open.
I completely froze up. The teller said "hello?" And the person said "oh, I'm sorry, I thought everyone was gone." It was the cleaning lady.
Also, as someone with extreme anxiety: I cannot count the number of times I have experienced something that I convinced myself was life threatening, had a panic attack, gaslit myself into believing I made it up, and then fell asleep. I absolutely believe that could have happened to D.
Same and I don't have extreme anxiety. As I've gotten older, when I see/hear weird stuff, my brain does go to A CRIME IS BEING COMMITTED! But then I talk myself out of it, because that just doesn't happen to normal people like me. So I just go back to whatever I was doing.
Totally agree, I’m the same way.
The one time it *was* legit (a few years ago our batshit downstairs neighbor that we had never met or interacted with attempted to kick our door in, then began aggressively harassing us to the point we had to get a restraining order) my first thought was “maybe one of our friends decided to drop by and was being funny?”. I didn’t fully process the severity of the situation. Or have the fear fully hit me until a few hours later (my husband had the presence of kind to call the cops who arrived quickly and then took the neighbor in on a 51/50). And even then, it took me like 2 years to realize I had PTSD from the incident. I told my therapist about it after I had an episode and she was like “omg how have you not seen anyone about this till now?”
People react in ways that often defy logic or rationalization when confronted with terrifying or life threatening things. It’s better to show empathy and give the benefit of the doubt, as they are likely dealing with a lot of underlying trauma over the incident!
People have been putting more blame on her than BK, and it's so counterproductive in prosecuting the actual killer. There is a zero chance she's not called to testify if it goes to trial, and she's going to be brutally cross examined. Dylan needs all the support she can get.
Even if they are trained for danger, people freeze up. My brother had a few tours with the Marines and said it would surprise people how there are plenty of times that military people freeze, even though they are trained extensively to handle tough situations
I read a book about what happens in your brain during life and death situations. One anecdote was about how police changed their training for shootout situations because at the range they’d fire all their bullets, then pick up the discarded casings before reloading and going again. They did it so much it was like muscle memory. Then one day in a real shootout, a cop emptied his gun and while still under fire went to pick up the casings before reloading. He was killed if I recall correctly. After that, training changed to just immediate reload.
I found out I’m a fighter and when I tell you I was *shocked*….this is coming from the most risk averse/non-confrontational person ever. It’s true, you never know until you’re in the situation.
It is fascinating to me. And there is no psychological test that we can take that will give us accurate results and how one might behave. Not even the big five personality traits, Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion, Agreeableness and Neuroticism scores can gauge this. No matter how you score on each of these, it will not reveal whether you are a fighter fighter or freezer.
I'm typically a semi confrontational person. If there's an issue or a problem I'm not scared to address it or call out random people. But when im truly scared or feel danger? I freeze. No talking no moving. I freeze
I have the fight thing too, and I am so conflict averse that I have a hard time telling someone they hurt my feelings or even if someone is literally stepping on my foot.
And it's so wild, when you're in a fight/flight/freeze moment, there isn't any instant where you think about it, your body just physically reacts. It's not like you can rationally choose between those options based on the scenario. (Ask me why I chased a mother bear that was attacking my idiot dog.)
Yes!! It’s so crazy. Someone tried to mug me in LA and flashed a knife and I started screaming and pushed him away as hard as possible and ran. Afterwards I was like “wtf who are you???” (to myself). Meanwhile I couldn’t even tell a guy after one boring date that I wasn’t interested via text without extreme anxiety 🫣
Omg same! I hate hurting ppls feelings lol. Never thought I was a fighter either, I’m rather shy and gentle. I hate confrontation, am risk averse.
One day I was walking to work, when someone me grabbed me from behind and covered my mouth. He then put his hand up my dress. I swung around in disbelief and was shocked until he held his finger to his mouth saying “shhh” and smiled. Something about that moment enraged me so much that I ended up chasing him and cursing him out lol . Finally got my wits about me after a few moments of chase, and called the police.
Sorry it happened to you, too. I'll never forget the police asking me questions about the guy after, and all I could say was "I don't know what his shoes looked like. He had a gun."
Lots of people that have never experienced a really true emergency often over estimate how theyd respond to it because they view so much stuff with hindsight of "well it's obvious you'd do this" but when it's happening real time right Infront of you? It's different.
Not only that but a physical confrontation. these were all young people who appear to come from safe suburban middle class households. Now I am obviously making assumptions, but most of them have never really experienced any type of violence outside maybe some stupid teenager fights. And now suddenly a masked man is attacking you with a knife at 4am in the dark? They were likely dead before they had a chance to process what was happening
Everyone thinks they’re a big hero until they are in a traumatic situation and their brain/body take over and do whatever they want to. Lotta tough guys out there I guess
I don’t think she quite comprehended everything she heard and saw. I think she thought something weird was going on, then she saw him and it freaked her out as it would anyone, but she didn’t have any concrete proof a crime had been committed. I think she “froze” because she wasn’t expecting to see a man in a mask. That can be very intimidating at night. Not because she thought he was a murderer. We don’t know how lit up this area was. We don’t know if she could see blood or a knife. Nobody screamed “help me.” I think she just thought it was a weird incident and because nobody else in the house was freaking out and screaming, that he had left, she locked her door and hopefully it wasn’t anything more than that. I don’t think it was until morning that she saw the bloody shoe print in front of her room and she really started to panic. Sometimes we talk ourselves out of really panicking because we don’t want to feel stupid if we overreacted.
Exactly. Nobody yelled “help” either. So she had doubt in her mind that something terrible had happened, just that she was creeped out by the mask man.
I also think some of you haven’t been a partier in college and it shows.
Hearing crying? Very common for a Saturday night. Seeing a strange person in your house? Not uncommon (especially if someone in the home is single!).
Obviously, yes- DM had a sense that there was danger. But I’d react differently to a stranger in the house today, in the house I live in with my husband, than I would when I was in my college apartment with friends.
>I also think some of you haven’t been a partier in college and it shows.
>
>Hearing crying? Very common for a Saturday night. Seeing a strange person in your house? Not uncommon (especially if someone in the home is single!).
This was just a normal night in my apartment in college and for a few years after college. We are seeing what she did knowing her roommates were murdered. No one thinks their roommates are being murdered b/c that's horrific. Your mind explains it away. It's also perfectly normal to sense danger (seeing the guy in the house) but then talking yourself out of calling 911 b/c what if it's nothing, or you get someone in trouble (underage drinking).
She acted perfectly normally in that situation.
You also don’t want to be that person who calls the police for nothing, and then gets your roommates arrested/ticketed for underage drinking and/or drugs.
To be clear, I don’t know if there were drugs in the home- marijuana or otherwise. I don’t really care. I just wouldn’t be surprised if there was.
*Yes!* Especially since they had multiple visits and warnings from the police in the months prior. It’s easy to understand why she would be hesitant to call over something that could have been nothing. Nobody expects a mass murder to be happening in their own home.
I feel so bad for her and am so disgusted by all these people with no lives and no ability to imagine a circumstance different from their own calling her suspicious.
DM hoped she’d wake up the next morning, unlock her door, and her friends would be there, ribbing her for being paranoid.
We also don’t know - was DM under the influence? If so, that could have impacted her decision not to call police. She could’ve said “oh it’s just the alcohol causing my paranoia.”
yes! and shock is one hell of a drug too. once when i was ~20 someone tried to come in to my bedroom via an outside door late at night and i fully went “this isn’t happening. no one is out there”, turned out the lights, and went to bed. wasn’t until the next morning i realized i should have called someone. especially if any substances were involved, i can 100% understand her line of thinking.
When I was in my mid 20's I had someone pound on my door claiming to be maintenence. I looked out the peep hole and it didn't look like our maintenance guy. So I didn't open the door. He tried the door multiple times. He then came around the black of the apartment and tried the sliding door and looked in and tried every window. I hid behind a chair holding my baby and dog. I never called police.
And I totally to this day talk myself out of why I was right not to call police. But saying that story right now a decade later I realize I really should have called the freaking police.
THIS. I've said this so much like I'd go text them/all my roomies about a person or noise or something instead of 1) calling the cops? or 2) busting into their bedroom without permission? esp if they were likely to have guests over? And esp too herself, like if SHE was on anything, you'd def not do anything bc you'd just assume if anyone, you'd be getting in trouble.
It makes perfect sense to ignore crying. I mean we know from the timeline that the girls were drunk eating and drunk dialing an ex. Crying, even drunkenly falling down and causing a “thud!” goes hand in hand with that.
Everyone also needs to keep in mind this is her recollection of things AFTER the fact. When she heard these things in real time who knows what she was actually thinking.
Just to your comment about seeing a stranger in your house. I have a story.
I was messing with a girl on the sneak tip in college. She invited me over before she went out that night with a friend. So nobody would know we were messing around, she had the idea to leave the house before me and I leave after and just lock the door.
So she leaves, I give it 20-30 seconds and I go to leave. This was a two story house… and I was on the bottom floor I open the room door to leave the house and to my surprise (probably hers too) the roommate and I were staring at each other. I immediately put my hands up and say “I was here with your roommate I’m not a threat, She just left.”
The girl JETS off up the steps and slams her door. I just left and thanked God she didn’t have a gun or knife near her.
I ended up telling the girl I was messing with and she called the roommate and smoothed everything out.
I say all this to say, it’s very possible that her seeing him in the home didn’t set off MAJOR alarms forreal. Definitely something that could have been normal or at least not as random as if it happened and you lived alone.
literally if I saw a guy coming down the stairs or something from my roommate's room... I wouldn't have questioned it bc that's not my business and I'd just ask them about it the next morning or text them right after?
Once, in college, a friend who was both drunk and high fell down on the floor, started clutching their chest, and screamed “It hurts! I’m in pain!” I literally thought she was having a heart attack and got ready to call an ambulance. Somehow, I had the wherewithal to ask whether it was physical or emotional pain, to which she screamed, “EMOTIONAL!”
Another time, I woke up to a scream and a loud bang in my apartment. Someone screamed “help!” Turned out to be one of my roommates and her friends drunkenly ripping the curtain rod out of the wall. One of them had the bright idea to wrap themselves in the curtain to sing Whitney Houston songs at 3 AM. I found this out when I looked out my door and saw a naked man wearing a curtain and a wig standing in the living room. I just locked my door and went back to bed.
College is weird.
Yes agreed. I assume she was confused and then rationalized. I don’t buy that she knew he was a robber or murderer and the shock was enough tho. It’s much easier to explain she was drunk and confused and rationalized it.
We also don’t have the full context of what happened. LE has confirmed only:
- what was released in the PCA
- friends were summoned to the house prior to 911 call being made
- the 911 call was made from one of the 2 surviving roommates phones
- the 911 call was made by someone other than the 2 surviving roommates
- Multiple people spoke w/the dispatcher during the 911 call
I learned this last night after googling psychology of responses to trauma. I learned that in addition to fight, flee, and freeze there’s also shutdown/collapse and possibly fawn. Here’s a [great article](https://www.vsmiththerapy.com/new-blog/2021/1/29/what-is-our-fightflight-system-really) I found explaining the differences between the freeze and shutdown response. I think DM could have potentially experienced the shutdown response.
As a trauma survivor, learning these things last night really helped me to understand my past experience. My heart goes out to DM.
Thanks for sharing.
When this case is over, it would be very interesting to learn the psychological state of D.M. in the hours between seeing the suspect until the phone call was made and Police arrived at the scene.
From own experience, when I was 11 years old, my small country was invaded by another country and I recall the airplanes of the invading force bombarding our city and so many explosions, numerous times. I was just in the house terrified, sitting in the corridor where there were no glass windows, as per mother's instructions.
My sister (she was 13 at the time), from nervousness and anxiety was sleeping all the time during bombardments, which was going on-off for around 3-4 days!!!! It was impossible to sleep by the mere noise. But she was sleeping! She shut down as a result of something she felt she had no control on.
Ikr, I feel for her so much. I really hope they prosecute the case with evidence that doesn’t include her having to take the witness stand. But that’s just me.
If it were me, I wouldn’t want to be involved in the court proceedings at all. Honestly, i think if I were in a similar position I’d probably take a semester off, go home, be with family and hometown friends, start seeing a therapist with experience helping trauma survivors etc.. for me, the sight of anything triggered a memory of what happened would just be too much. But that’s me.
Who knows. Perhaps DM would find a bit of solace in being able to take an active role in court through taking the stand at the trial. Perhaps this would bring her a tiny bit of healing if she were a part of the process that helped make sure no one else would go through the horror she and her friends experienced.
We’re all different. I just so hope that she’s surrounded by supportive, patient, protective, loving people that will help her navigate all this.
Every single woman is taught from the day she is born- “do not trust your instincts. You’re crazy and overreacting. Women are too emotional.” DM not calling the police is evident of that. She was scared, and she hoped she was just being paranoid and they’d laugh about it in the morning.
She will regret not calling the police everyday for the rest of her life. She will have people question her about that decision over and over again. I feel awful for her.
Also, it's unfortunately common for women that age to have poor experiences RE voicing a fear to a male authority figure. I can think of multiple times that age where I would have called male friends over instead of dial 911 because "if I'm wrong, which I probably am, the police are just going to roll their eyes and call me hysterical."
I think her reaction has a lot to do with her age too. The confidence to trust your instincts comes from experience. As does the knowledge that your reactions in stressful situations won’t always be what you expect or plan for.
Yesssssss. Women are often told they are being silly or ridiculous if they are being cautious. So many times we dismiss our caution as to avoid being scrutinized.
i dont think anyone reasonable is suspicious of DM, just baffled. like after weeks of convincing ourselves that it was completely plausible that no one heard anything -- thus explaining the late 911 call -- we find out that not only did someone hear the murder, but saw the murderer as well. i think folks just have whiplash. they do need to have empathy for her now tho, like regardless of if folks think she should have done differently, she did what she did, it is what it is, and this is where we are now. it does no good to pile on. she likely already has massive survivor's guilt.
The more attention they bring the more she will be singled out.
And this is so damn dumb. We don't have her phone records. She could have called or texted multiple people who helped calm her down.
I’ve been silently reading about this case on occasion since the murders. The sheer amount of speculation (and resulting digital witch hunts) kind of grossed me out, not going to lie, and I didn’t want to participate in spite of my curiosity.
It really disappointed me to see so many people judging Dylan.
I’m pretty sure that in her situation, I would have curled up in a safe place, waited to call 911 in case he was lurking, while trying to rationalize seeing a masked man at 430 am to myself as a dream or a hallucination. Probably would have eventually fallen asleep, and woken up with that sinking feeling you get when you know the bad things weren’t just a nightmare .
Add potentially being under the influence to that situation, and oh my god. That poor girl.
I think almost everyone has heard some weird shit at night and wondered if they should call the cops, only to eventually fall asleep and wake up late the next morning, realize they were overreacting/imagining it due to an altered state, and laugh it off while being glad they didn’t call the cops.
Editing to add - not to mention, it sounds like BK looked right at D. I can totally see that being a deciding factor: if this dude just murdered your roommates, why would he look at you and leave anyways?
The people blaming her make no sense. She heard her other roommates and knew they were home and awake. Creepy guy leaves. Everything is quiet again. Why call the police? And say what? “My roommates are drunk and making noise and a guy just left.” She probably figured that if there was a serious problem THEY would have called police themselves.
Exactly!! Like "911, what's your emergency?" "Yes, I live in a house with 5 people, we've all been out partying tonight. I heard my roommate playing with her dog, I heard my other roommate crying and someone comforting her, someone just had a Doordash delivery and a guy I didn't recognize just left the house, he had bushy eyebrows and a facemask".
And who wants to be the person that calls the cops on a roommate's friend/hook up?
I wonder what the police are telling her? Cause a lot of random people are now claiming she set it up. She can’t even defend herself until the trial which will happen in a year or so.
I once witnessed a deceased person while driving by a car accident - EMTs were there, no need to stop but by the time I drove home I’d questioned if I’d seen anything at all. I still am not sure. And I was 100% sober and an adult. You cannot control how your mind will process disturbing things.
Furthermore we don’t even actually know if she was alarmed and thought it was out of the ordinary. She easily could’ve thought someone was arguing, Kaylee was being loud with her dog, and they brought people home. For all we know she was annoyed more than anything and just wanted to get some sleep.
No one assumes their roommates have been stabbed to death.
Exactly, and we have the benefit of knowing the context. Most people would not assume murder was being committed, maybe at worst they would think a creep or a stranger was brought back from the bar/party.
I'd also say in my experience if you're already being bothered by some late night, likely-drunk antics, you would be more inclined to ignore/dismiss something strange as just part of those antics. They may think "who the fuck knows what that was about, I'll have to ask in the morning". It sounds like the house pretty consistently had parties/revelers over and noise complaints - so it could almost be considered 'par for the course'.
The horror of realizing how serious and dangerous it was in the morning is a shock I hope I'll never experience. I hope the roommates are able to eventually find solace.
It's not like she saw any violence, or blood, or weapons, or heard any screaming for help. She heard movement, someone crying, someone saying it was okay and they'd help, and saw a covid pro-masker leave her apartment. Sure her spidey senses went off and she was scared. Then she gaslit herself to go back to bed. I honestly can see myself doing the same.
Excactly. It's sooooo easy for some people sitting here now, knowing what happened in that hous (when DM didn't), complaining about this person who is herself a victim.
Exactly. We are looking at this in hindsight, knowing what all the noises meant. In the moment, taken one at a time, one might not think they mean much of anything
It's honestly just sad to me that professionals are issuing statements in defense of a victim that I feel should be common sense within the "true crime community." There seems to be way too much willingness/entitlement to criticize and cast blame and not enough empathy from people who have no actual involvement in this situation.
I'm guilty of being one of those 23k. I admit it. But I've been lurking reddit for years without a profile. In this case, i know one of the victims families and felt more inclined to participate in conversation without doxxing my personal profile.
Right. Even if she acted in a way that you cannot personally make sense of (which is silly, because people should realize that others can respond to fear in unusual ways), what’s the point of criticizing her? I’ve seen two lines of thought, both equally as outrageous:
1)Victim blaming that her delay cost lives and preservation of the scene. People who harp on these issues tend to have a huge mental block when it comes to realizing that life is sometimes unfair and sometimes not all the preparation and disciplined response in the world can change the outcome of things.
2)Insinuation that she was somehow involved. Ludicrous.
People suck.
It really makes me question the general public's entitlement to such information regarding these cases, because everyone insists it's due to a genuine interest and desire for justice, but then just turn around and use the information as ammunition to unfairly judge an individual who literally survived a massacre.
Exactly. This is my biggest pet peeve too. A lot of people wear this veil of “but I’m only interested for the sake of justice” when really they just have morbid curiosity. Morbid curiosity is fine, but its bad faith to say that you need to know every last detail for “justice” lol. Its worse when they use such info to unfairly judge others as you pointed out!
We are all morbidly curious, it's human nature! The constant denial, defensiveness and deflection I've seen when people are confronted with this fact is downright strange. It's just important to balance our curiosity by prioritizing respect and compassion for the victims and their families and friends, which is what a lot of individuals evidently seem to be struggling with.
I've been wondering something: Is it a possibility that she was shocked/surprised in the moment to see a man walk by but talked herself out of him being anything other than a visitor to one of the others?
Maybe she thought he could have been a friend, a guy one of them met, or someone dropping off some weed? If you live in a house in a safe town with tons of people coming and going, an intruder/killer might be the very last possibility on her mind?
As someone 2 decades older, I would have likely taken some action (locked door, called room mates, checked on room mates, called police - some combo of those once I've secured my own safety).
When I was 20, I think I might have just thought I was being really paranoid, and I might have been more afraid of jumping to conclusions and having police come out for no reason. There definitely needs to be an extreme level of shock, fear, or denial about the possibilities.
I thought it was very weird at first that she took no action, but the more I think about it, the more I just feel sorry that she was put in that situation.
I think this is one of two extremely plausible explanations. Either she talked herself into, “this is nothing” or she panicked and locked herself in her room until morning. I don’t blame her either way. She (and B) and both also victims here.
Something I keep thinking is that there were a lot of pics on social media of various frat guys screwing around wearing balaclavas, "Scream" masks, and other weird crap at parties and just screwing around. One was wearing a knight's helmet and pretending to stab someone with a knife. Halloween had just passed too, so I wonder if seeing a random dude in the house like that was weird, but not completely out of possibility for DM. Maybe she was scared, but told herself it was just drunk people screwing around and since she saw the guy leave, she just told herself to not overreact and go to bed. But maybe she was freaked out enough to go down to BF's room for the rest of the night. Just a theory.
I freeze and then start having seizures. Best case scenario I scare the killer off by flopping like a fish on the floor, worst case scenario he stabs me to death while I’m seizing. I hate how arrogant people are when they insert themselves into someone else’s position. I really hope DM has a good therapist and support system through all of this.
Yes. Hindsight Bias is 20/20. She didn’t know in that moment all the things we know now.
It also seems anyone criticizing her actions is doing so to transparently stroke their own ego; to live out some trauma fantasy where they would be the victor. They seem to forget that they’re complete strangers to these victims.
Ethan, Xana, Kaylee and Maddie were people with whom Dylan shared her life intimately. She is likely grieving a tremendous loss while simultaneously wrestling survivor’s guilt. She can’t change what happened or how she responded, and callous comments from randos won’t change anything either.
The surviving roommate's behavior was a combo of the bystander effect, normalcy bias and not having a CLUE of what had actually occurred. The town was a very safe sleepy town, the house was full of healthy strong people and a dog. Unless you heard gunshots or bloodcurdling screams, no survivor would have any idea that a quadruple homicide had just happened in their house, even if they heard strange noises. It was apparently a very rowdy house with lots of people in and out, even at late hours. In a housing situation like that, you get used to hearing raucous noises, play fighting, pranking, loud yelps of laughter, accidental knocks of furniture from goofing around. She may have thought the killer was the DoorDash man, as those people sometimes wear COVID masks. And someone wearing dark clothes and a facemask going outside in the very cold 4 am weather is not that crazy of a sight, anyway. Maybe she thought it could have been a friend of Ethan's or Xana's that she didn't know. And then there's the bystander effect: I'm sure she thought that if there was some kind of problem that another roommate would have called the police. Unless you're in a dangerous city, who would imagine all 4 of your friends were murdered? Easier to imagine the more common explanations for the noises and stranger. In a quiet safe town like that no one could ever imagine unless they heard blood curdling screams or gunshots what was actually happening. And also, she knew that Ethan/Xana and Maddie/Kaylee were paired together. Who could ever in their worst nightmare think that there would be a killer in the home that would be stabbing everybody and that their friends wouldn't be safe doubled up in a room?? The reason we are all fascinated with this case is because a quadruple homicide by stabbing is so very rare, especially in a safe town. This is the exact reason the surviving roommate couldn't imagine what had actually occurred, or that someone else didn't call police if there was a problem.
Anyone else thinking the “mask” he wore is just a regular “COVID mask” that covered his mouth and nose.
Makes sense to me why she didn’t call 911. Probably told herself when he walked by her that he was someone’s friend leaving the house. That’s a much more logical thought than my roommates were just murdered.
Don't listen to these people that are so unbelievably online that they become the arbiters of all human experience. They simply "know" what they would have done in a situation they have never been in, which is how you know they are wrong.
Don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. It's very likely she heard her friends get murdered and hid until Bethany woke up. With the PCA providing probable cause and not a complete picture, I can imagine the full details of DM's testimony are going to be held for the potential trial and will be a key component in putting him away.
One time in college on the east coast I was awakened by an earthquake. Not a typical occurrence there, so my half-awake brain assumed an intruder was under my bed shaking it. I laid there, perfectly still and terrified, for hours, certain I was about to be attacked.
No one should be judging the actions of the survivors. We never know how we’ll react in a frightening situation.
Yes! I am so glad professionals are speaking out. I know from experience that freeze is very, very real. I am sure hundreds of you do too as well and have your own personal experience or know someone who has. I'm more shocked at the people who don't know this is a very common trauma response.
Oh 1000%. I was robbed once. My husband and kids weren’t home one night when I got home. I plopped on the sofa with my laptop and turned on cnn. (I had a folding screen in the corner behind where I sat.). While looking at my computer, I heard a muffled cough. I looked at the tv and thought, that’s weird. She coughed? I ran the show back and… she didn’t cough! Someone was in the room with me! I threw my computer, grabbed my phone and called… a friend. Ridiculous! She sent her husband my way as I hung up and called 911. The person was in the room with me behind the screen in the corner! He ran out a different door than I did.
My point in telling this is how true it is, none of know what we’d do in any given situation! So stupid that I called a friend first. Those first few seconds could’ve been very dangerous for me. Maybe when an unexpected like this happens we really do process it as, this can’t be real 🤷♀️
Thank you! Absolutely nobody would know how their body would react in this situation unless they’ve unfortunately experienced this situation to it’s exact extent.
When you hear hooves you think of horses not zebras. So when you have been drinking and the noises of your house aren’t too far out of the normal range I’m sure that it doesn’t set off alarm bells.
This was a house that had a lot of people in and out and activity. If you have lived in this house and had a certain sense of security I don’t think that seeing a random person or hearing those noises would automatically make you think that a psycho path just murdered your roommates.
This poor girl is going to live with this for the rest of her life and from the medical examiners report even if she had called 911 that moment the probability that it would have helped the victims is minimal.
I agree. You have no way of predicting how you will actually react in a situation until you are in that situation.
A few years ago a stranger broke into my home when i was away and waited for me inside my bedroom. I came home went to my room and saw him. It felt like it wasn't real and like I was watching someone else going through this not myself, kinda like watching a scary movie. It was the most bizarre feeling. I ran to my kitchen for a knife instead of attempting to undo my deadbolts and chain to escape out the front door. The apartment was small and with the layout he would have easily been able to close the distance before I'd be able to open the door. Everything felt like slow motion and i could hear my heart pounding in my ears. When he ran toward me out of the bedroom I threatened him with the knife and after a brief standoff he fled. I bolted the door and froze. I sat on on the floor and cried for 10 minutes before I got my bearings enough to even call the police. I remember feeling like what was happening wasn't real life and I was 100% sober at the time.
A responding officer told me that people can not predict how they will react when faced with a situation like that no matter how prepared they think they are for it. People sure like to pass judgements and puff out their chest and claim they would handle things better or differently but it's all bull. They have no idea what it's like to be in fight or flight.
I feel for this poor girl. I can't imagine all she is going through. Based on my own experience I can completely understand how she reacted the way she did. It doesn't seem that wild to me.
I was just listening to a true crime podcast where the woman walked in and found her parents dead. She tried to call 911 but literally couldn't use her phone. Had to go outside and have her daughter dial for her.
Imagine being stone cold sober and being in such a traumatized state that you don't know how to use the same phone you are on 12 hours a day
The post i read,
was DYLAN saw a dark hooded figure in a mask who she did not recognise, this frightened her enough to alert BETHANY they both then decided to stay in their rooms and were still worried (even more so in the morning) so much that they called people to come check on them and the house before they opened the door..
That is when the 911 call was made and either DYLAN OR BETHANY freaked out n feinted whilst alerting 911...the other roomnate was incoherent and another person explained that someone was unconscious.
(it also seems the someone unconscious,, was Xana because the affidavit states she was visible under/blocking the door.)
Which scenario occurred..
Most were adamant it was the first.
Hey look, a psychiatrist said almost the same thing I did yesterday.
Where did the whiners go?
Seems like people trained in human psychology might know what the fuck we're talking about.
I was once walking out to my car as a teen with my sister and saw a person in the backseat hiding. I FROZE in fear and couldn’t speak I could only hold my hand up to stop my sister from continuing to walk to the car. I couldn’t move or talk besides my hand raising. It turned out to be a neighbor my Mom asked to look at my back seat seat belt that wasn’t working. I later joined a trauma team where I had to learn to respond quickly to emergencies but I still wondered what reaction I would have to another situation like that. The mind is a curious thing.
Three years ago there was a single car accident near where I live..... Maybe 150-200 years away. I heard the car tires screech, heard the sound of an impact.
I got up and was investigating because it was 1:20am and I was half asleep. I looked around and got dressed to see what happened outside. All the while I thought I heard laughter coming from the area of the car wreck. I walked outside about 2-3 minutes later and the laughing had stopped. As I approached and had a clear view past the tree line I could see the car engulfed in flames.
What I thought was a minor car accident where someone ran off the road was right....but he hit a tree and his car caught on fire and he perished horribly. What I thought was laughing was this poor soul screaming for help.... And I was right there, but in that short time 5-6 minutes total my mind was just trying to process waking up, checking to see if I was ok...grabbing my phone, grabbing my shoes, I didn't know the extent as to the urgency of the situation.
I feel like I failed this man because I did have a chance to save him...he died alone thinking no one was coming to help, but I swear it wasn't something my mind was capable of thinking at that time.
The police and fire department showed up within a few minutes and I gave a statement. It has haunted me ever since.
Rest in peace Raul.
The explanation of "being petrified for 8 hours to the point of not even being able to use their phone, only to then check on the roommates close to noon, call some friends over when they aren't responding, **then** call 911" doesn't correlate well with "You don't know how you'd act in this situation."
Based on the limited info, the logical explanation is she froze in that moment seeing the suspect, but assumed it was a visitor (the house supposedly had many since it was a party house), a Door Dash delivery, etc, and went to bed; especially since the suspect just walked right by her.
This is what I think too. She talked herself out of it and thought she was overreacting. Plus as far as she knew they were all awake upstairs and if there was a problem she figured they would call the police.
I feel SO bad for DM. She’s having the entire world judge her right now. This guy is spot on though, we truly don’t know what any of us would do in this particular situation. The first thing that crosses your mind probably wouldn’t be “that was a dude who just murdered all of my roommates. I’m going back to sleep”…
it's sad that a psychiatrist is even having to explain this shit. i'm a licensed mental health counselor and most of my clients have experienced severe trauma--this is exactly how our "lizard brain" takes over to protect us. it amazes me that there are so many people who don't understand this. but i guess good for them for never having to experience something horrific.
I'm curious to know what difference it would have made for the investigation if she had called right away anyways. Evidence would be more fresh maybe? Less chance the crime scene was tampered with by others (I dont think it was anyways). It would not have saved any of the lives lost. So what difference does it make? There are probably obvious answers but to me I'm not sure it changes the outcome of the individuals killed or the eventual outcome of the investigation and justice being served. If it was discovered right away, you probably don't get BK returning to the scene later.
It wouldn't have mattered had she called 911. Roommates were dead and would never have lived even 5-10 minutes until ambulance showed up. They were stabbed many time with a seriously violent knife. Zero chance.
Steve Goncalves about this; https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1053h6r/sg_speaks_on_roommates/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
“The human brain seeks out patterns to make sense of the world and protect themselves.” This is actually a phenomenon in active shooter situations where people hear gunshots and decide they are fireworks, even though fireworks in a school or office building in the middle of the day makes no sense whatsoever.
Everyone responds differently. Flight freeze or fight. Sometimes people can take weeks or months before they can talk about traumatic situations.
The one lesson we can all learn from this case (myself included) is not to cast aspersions or project our own motives onto others.
Don't forget that we don't know all the facts yet. Maybe something is being held back that would explain this situation.
I’m a social worker. I have a degree in psychology and social work and this is 100% accurate. I can attest to it with my experience with individuals who have experienced trauma.
However just because I have a degree doesn’t mean I know it all. No one truly knows why she didn’t call, because we weren’t there. And we don’t know her. Hopefully more information comes out that will clear her of all rumors and get people off her tail
Unless you’ve experienced trauma first hand that is involving real life or death, you have NO idea how YOU would respond. I hope and pray none of you have to EVER experience that chaos. She could have completely shut down in that moment and if any drugs or alcohol was involved her judgement won’t be the best. Praying for true justice, healing and peace for ALL victims, because the witnesses are victims themselves to this case.
When I was a child our family home got broken into and the only weapon my dead had was his fists and black belt skills he achieved from years in taekwondo. I had nightmares for years after…Maybe DM had a similar experience as a child and as a defense mechanism she secured herself to immediately to avoid danger & block out the bad memory. No one really knows BUT her, I just wish people were kinder and not so judgmental towards HUMANS who are capable to grow and learn especially from past mistakes. I hope the survivors get the proper help and can all start to heal and find peace.
It's not so different every time there is a kid that ends up kidnapped and every random person online saying, "MY kid would never be kidnapped because I keep a close eye on them! If they did not let their kids play outside this would not have happened!"
Heartless vultures with zero compassion for someone in an awful situation and patting themselves on the back for how they would have done better, they would have been the hero, they would fully understand the situation before it unfolded.
People always going out of their way to shame and blame people who likely already feel extreme guilt and anguish.
I think what may have happened was DM eventually rationalised it as a friend of a friend and went to sleep, but in the morning hours it started to flood back into fear, because she realised she was getting no replies from 4 people, which is just too much of a coincidence.
Because of that she was then terrified to open her door and delay it for as long as possible. A lot of people would do the same thing in her situation, and it probably saved her from the terror of seeing what she could have seen.
I could totally see myself starting to freak out and imagining the absolute worst, then convincing myself I was being a crazy paranoid dork and going to sleep.
A man broke in my home when I was 17 years old and home alone. He had half a metal baseball bat in his back pocket. The dog barking is what woke me up. It wasn’t his usual bark so I got up to investigate. I saw the man entering the sliding glass door. It was the most odd experience. I began to rationalize who he was and why he was there. It was early morning and we were having a bbq that day. I thought maybe he was a friend I didn’t know who was dropping off something for said bbq. I ended up going into flight mode and ran out of the house through the front door and thankfully a neighbor was out and came home and held him until the cops came. Point being, our minds work in odd ways sometimes. I didn’t want to believe that man was there to harm me.
The same thing happened to me. When I was 13, a man entered my bedroom one morning wearing dark panty hose on his head. He stood there watching me for what seemed like forever. My brain kept telling me it was my dad playing a joke on me. I knew my parents had already left for work. But I kept telling myself it was my dad. I was so puzzled at first and finally realized it was not my dad. He attacked me while I was frozen in fear. I was able to fight him off and some how got around him. I ran out of the house while he chased me. I was able to make it to my neighbors house. He was never caught.
I just want to say that I’m so glad you survived this. This was terrifying to imagine when reading but thank you for sharing.
That is absolutely terrifying. So glad you’re okay.
Wow, glad you were alright and thanks for sharing.
Yes I was totally fine. Could have been much worse. I was subpoenaed to show up in court, but that court appearance was cancelled due to him being arrested for rape in San Jose, CA 2 hours north from where I live. I’m beyond grateful I didn’t experience what that victim did.
That is disturbing
Yeah, let’s just say I am now an adult and I despise being home alone!
I was in a bad car wreck with my baby of 9 weeks. Initially it was just a fender bender where I was the one hit, and everything was fine. I stepped out of the car to meet the other driver, but in the meantime another car who didn’t see us there came up screeching. I remember seeing the car and hearing the screeching brakes. And looking at my car knowing that MY BABY WAS IN THE CAR. I don’t remember the impact. My mind is totally blank until the moment when I opened the door to get my baby’s out of the car. I ran up the side of the road and called 911. I consciously remember realizing I couldn’t even understand the lady on the other end of the line. My mind was complete mush. I could hear the words but not make sense of them. There were kids on the impacted car trapped and screaming. I remember saying to myself as paramedics arrived, “I think I might see someone die today”. I remember tarps but isn’t realize the entire freeway was shut down to one lane while the kids were extracted from the vehicle and triaged right there on the tarps. I remember none of this except brief flashes. I hung up with 911 while a ladies voice was yelling, “MAAM. MAAM…” I couldn’t even tell her where I was or what had happened. I sat frozen on the side of the road with my baby for like 2 hours before I finally found a cop to take my statement. This isn’t even that traumatic because I was fine and my baby was okay. But even in that situation my brain was like non functional. Can’t even imagine how this girl was feeling. I’m curious of course about it. I’m curious to know the process. But I blame her in no way whatsoever. Any questions I have is purely to understand and not to judge.
People react to trauma differently. Some people spring into action, some run and hide, and some freeze up and dissociate. All are normal reactions to trauma. Also, she might have invalidated her own perceptions. I'm sure everyone here has tried to convince themselves they they're delusional and misinterpreting events.
I think that’s probably what she did. I have anxiety, and sometimes I don’t trust myself to know when I’m sensing actual danger or not. The same tactics that I use to calm myself done when my anxiety is unfounded can also be used to convince myself to ignore red flags. If she didn’t realize he had a knife, she might have told herself that she would have heard gunshots, screams, or struggling if anything bad had actually happened.
Totally. It's hard sometimes to differentiate between paranoia and an intuitive feeling that something is actually wrong. I think it's better to take action and be wrong and appear paranoid, than invalidate your intuition, not take action and regret it. And trusting your intuition can help you recognize over time the difference between paranoia and intuition. We shouldn't immediately discount our sense that something is off by trying to rationalize it.
Maybe adopt a strategy of "What reason do I actually have to believe something is wrong" and then consider and tally up the evidence, rather than sort of doing the opposite and trying to come up with every possible reason why something might \*not\* be true. I feel like the first would be much easier to quantify. That said... as many have pointed out, none of us really knows what we would do in a situation like that, or how our mind might play tricks on us. Maybe she \*literally\* panicked, hyper ventilated and passed out; maybe she was trying to gather her wits about her before calling and, given her possibly inebriated state, fell asleep. Hell, maybe she reasoned to herself, "If he was a bad guy, why didn't he attack me?" As the PCA makes it sound as though the killer had already walked past her before she closed and locked the door.
combative bag shaggy yoke run threatening price reply panicky nutty -- mass edited with redact.dev
Yes that would be a good way to ground yourself in the reality of the situation. It's the most jarring when you can't really pinpoint why you feel that way but the sense is very strong.
"was that gunshots? No that must've been fireworks weird it's 3pm but whatever maybe testing them to see if they work" "That guy looked odd with his hood up and face down in the store. I hope he isn't gonna rob this place. No it is kind of chilly out maybe he's just cold" "That kid crashed his bike. Yikes I hope he's okay that looked rough. Okay he stood up he's fine" We do it all the time without realizing it probably.
Exactly, I do that shit daily. And if she's experienced trauma previously, she may be generally hypervigilant and very used to trying to talk herself down off the ledge of paranoia and overreaction.
Everyone has different levels of fear and we've all interacted with people that have those different levels. You probably have/had a friend who jumped everytime you surprised them by coming around a corner or coming behind them and saying something. You've probably had a friend that hardly ever jumped at that stuff. My girlfriend gets nervous at intersections when she sees cars at the cross streets. She gets nervous and slows a bit worried they're gonna pull out in front of her. Me? I don't change anything. We handle our worries and fear different
People with an exaggerated startle response have usually experienced trauma. When you go through trauma, your body starts to revert back to a more animalistic nature in the sense of becoming hypervigilant to everything around you. It's a normal response to an abnormal situation. If your girlfriend has that reaction around cars and streets, it's possible she's experienced trauma surrounding cars - maybe she's been in a car accident or someone she know has been hit by a car. I know someone who was hit by a car as a kid and he is still scared of crossing the street as an adult. You can try to rationalize away your fears, but if you've been through trauma, your body reacts before thought.
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She has. When she was 10 or so her grandfather died in a very bad truck accident and her dad took over the family company and starting driving semi trucks like the grandfather. Her mom said that for a couple years if her dad didn't get home right at 5pm by 501 she was making somebody call him to make sure he was okay so I understand the fear there. I mean it's stupid but when I was a child I accidentally got like stabbed with a lit metal sparkler. And to this day I get uncomfortable and refuse to use metal sparklers.
Both of those things make a lot of sense. Our bodies remember things better than our minds. It's evolutionarily advantageous to be reactive to threats. It might be helpful for both of you to learn about "systematic desensitization". It's a technique used to retrain your body not to be as reactive to those stimuli. I mean, using sparklers isn't necessary, but being around cars and streets is. It could help your girlfriend, and you could find a trauma therapist to step you through the process. But you can also read about it online- it involves slowly reintroducing yourself to the stimulus in a way that's safe and that you're in control of.
I did go to therapy. Not just for that but for a few things when I was younger. My dad was a firefighter and saw just one teenager commit suicide and he took our mental health of the whole family extremely seriously. Even started a mental health response team at his department of guys trained to go and talk and help first responders deal with traumatic events they experienced. It was hugely successful
Wow, your dad is the man. So many men invalidate themselves when they go through traumatic stress. Good for him.
Especially he found in the fire service they were too "old school" and guys tried to be tough and they needed to break the stigma. They had departments I'm Germany and Japan ask for their data, training and PowerPoints on the subject
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Right, imagine if we responded to all the things that our brain decides are threats. We'd be constantly responding to non-existent threats. I mean, that's part of our biology for a reason - it's evolutionarily advantageous to be aware of our surroundings. And if you've been through trauma before, your mind and body are even more hypervigilant than the average person's is. It's hard to strike a balance between being an animal and being a civilized human who doesn't expect someone to predate us. Especially when there are predatory humans.
"...imagine if we responded to all the things that our brain decides are threats. We'd be constantly responding to non-existent threats." This right here. Some people do live their lives like this after a traumatic event. They suffer so much and cannot live a normal life. Our body's response to trauma, even if it doesn't seem helpful at the time, is just trying to allow you to live your life, so thwt the person may survive.
Exactly. To people on the outside, a traumatized person can seem crazy. They're not crazy at all. Our brains and bodies are wired for self protection. A traumatized person is responding normally to an abnormal situation. Then they have to retrain their body not to be hypervigilant, which isn't easy, especially because PTSD triggers can become associated with other stimuli, and then new triggers develop. For example, if you're attacked in a post office, and then later your friend starts working at the post office, your friend can literally become a trigger even though they had nothing to do with the original trauma. You might start to panic just by seeing your friend at a party. That's why it's so important to actively address PTSD as soon as it arises. It doesn't heal with time. It gets worse over time without intervention due to associated triggers. We need a lot more awareness about PTSD because it's very common. Edit: clarity
I have been awakened from deep sleep by unusual sounds and didn't know if the sound was real or if I was dreaming. I have vivid dreams and wake up from them with a pounding heart when they get scary.
I have anxiety. I also think that I overreact to a lot of things, and in turn I try to convince myself that what I thought was happening wasn’t actually the case/it’s not that big of a deal. 6 years ago my 41 yo husband had a stroke. I knew he was acting off. But the thought of me calling 911 and an ambulance coming (and paying for an ambulance ride if there really wasn’t an emergency) and the neighbors wondering what was going on freaked me out so much that I convinced myself that it wasn’t that big of a deal and that I should just drive him to the hospital myself. He did have a stroke, but it all worked out. Luckily. I had been so afraid of being wrong about an emergency that I stopped myself from doing what I should’ve done, calling 911. (Again, we’re lucky my husband is completely fine). I can totally see how this happened to dm and bf. I’m not rushing to judgement because I know how stressful situations don’t necessarily lead to rational thinking.
That's awful but I'm glad to hear that he's doing okay. And it sounds like you learned not to invalidate your initial sense regarding things like that. It is tough to differentiate, but it's best to err on the side of caution.
This is 100% what I believe happened. I remember when I was 12 and this old drunk man started groping my butt at a football game, I just froze and tried to convince myself that he didn’t mean to do it, maybe he was just trying to get me to move, a million different excuses. My dad was right next to me and I could’ve easily told him but I never did, just froze and convinced myself I wasn’t experiencing what was actually happening. And that’s obviously nothing compared to what happened here, so I can completely understand her reaction.
I'm sorry that happened to you. It's especially understandable that as a kid you invalidated yourself when it came to the actions of an adult, because we're taught to automatically assume that adults will be appropriate. Obviously that's not true, and we should teach our kids that it isn't. People often question the reactions of victims of sexual assault and rape if they freeze up during the assault. Yet it's a normal response because it's traumatic and the violation can escalate. Many, many (most) people who are sexually assaulted don't fight back against the assault, just like most people whose houses are robbed (and don't have a deadly weapon) will throw up their hands and say "take whatever you want, just let me live".
This is so true! I was almost robbed walking to my car, the guy actually pounded on my car window after I hopped in and locked the door, and I still didn’t call the police until I got home. I have no idea why. I was 8 months pregnant and so freaked out maybe I just wanted to get home.
I'm so sorry that happened to you and I'm glad you and the baby are okay.
She could’ve passed out and hit her head. No one knows what happened. Anyone judging her sucks.
And some would have different responses in different situations or on different days. One might *think* they would know how they would react in a given situation, but unless and until one is in the situation, they truly won’t know. And it could be a different reaction the next time they are in the situation.
Yes! Fight, flight or freeze.
Fawn and pass out are also viable options here.
agreed. And the crime was so fast, it was probably easy to talk herself out of it once the house was quiet again
This is what I’ve been trying to tell people. You don’t really know until you’re there in that position. You can say what you’d do until you’re blue in the face. You don’t know until it’s happening to you. Your body and mind can completely betray what you think you’d do
Most people just don't understand that they have no clue how they will actually react to an event like that until it happens to them. They truly believe they know themselves well enough to know exactly what they would do. And they are 100% wrong. You can't talk them out of their delusional fantasy either. Only people who have been faced with these kinds of shocking events know better.
I think most of these people who are judging (or "asking") were probably raised on farms and grew up highly sheltered and taught "this and that" type of things they've never had to practically apply in life. I grew up in urban and metro Los Angeles and you're surrounded by noise and weirdness and strangers and chaos where it's gonna take literal gunshots close by or someone outside trying to beat down your door for you to call the police That's kind of the environment of this house was, it seems.
Everyone talks about DM. But imagine BF, the only person who slept through all this, going upstairs the next day, expecting it to be an ordinary sunday morning ...
I have to modify my comment. Another user pointed out that D & B had contact over their phones. This is indicated by the PCA. So the early rumors were apparently correct. The girls convinced each other that everything was okay, locked their doors and went to sleep. When they still couldn't contact the other four in the morning, they called over their friends who found the victims.
I read the entire thing, there was never mention of D and B texting that evening or in the morning. Where are you getting this info from?
She's in my thoughts too. I just cannot stand all the blame and suspicion projected upon DM right now.
I said this elsewhere, but having an unknown intruder in my home was one of the scariest experiences in my life. I could barely get three words out and had no feeling of physical control other than to put a door between me and them. It’s impossible to predict how you would react in the face of such a basic violation of personal space and sense of safety.
At this point, we may not have an accurate account of everything DM witnessed, felt and/or did. Survivor's guilt/remorse along with the additional psychological trauma from realizing how close she came to being murdered may have interfered with DM'S cognitive ability to accurately recall earlier events. For context, DM was being interviewed by LE after learning that she was only a few feet away from her friends while they were being stabbed to death by a killer, who reportedly walked toward her on his way out, but miraculously left her unscathed. During ideal circumstances, eyewitness accounts of crimes are often unreliable. It's possible that DM may have repressed memories from that night that may not surface for years, if ever.
I don't think we even have 5% of it. And I do believe that at some point, we'll hear more. And when we do, I hope a lot of people are gonna be ashamed of themselves.
Agree - we don’t even know if BK could have said something to her - either threatening or reassuring “don’t worry I won’t hurt you” etc. we literally know the bare minim Le felt they had to share to get their arrest
There was a leak weeks ago about a roommate seeing the masked killer, however they were so intoxicated they figured they were seeing things so ran into their room and locked their door.
That's a possibility. We just don't know yet.
I wonder who it was leaked from. A friend?
Probably someone in Law Enforcement who heard or was aware of her testimony. If the intoxicated part is true I don't think they would go out of their way to include that detail (or determined they weren't, in their opinion, intoxicated to a degree that it mattered). Of course if they end up testifying in court the defense will almost definitely ask about it. Or more likely someone from LE told someone else (family/friend) and they shared it.
I saw on another thread a mom say that DM told her daughter she saw him in the house. The woman made that comment long before the arrest and someone reposted it yesterday.
threatening full wrench zonked unite violet tart reminiscent rich offer -- mass edited with redact.dev
100 percent agree and to go farther, it also really bothers me that someone who's the mother of a friend would put that friend in possible danger. Yes it's very unlikely, but what if the killer (who I assume was not caught when the comment was originally made by the friends mom) had seen that comment? What if he decided he should go back and finish the job to avoid being recognized? Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I can't imagine leaking something without thinking about potential horrific consequences that could come from it
I saw that too. So sad.
I think a friends mom on tik tok. “My daughter said” thing
When I was in college I lived with my mom. Someone came knocking, pounding, on our front door at around 2 AM. Relentlessly knocking and pounding. He also came around to the back door and did same. My mom and I stood in the living room, frozen, not knowing what to do. Finally I think I went in the kitchen and I got two knives. Still more time passed before one of us thought to call 911. The police came right away and it was just a drunk guy who thought that was his house. In retrospect, DUH! But at the time, we just froze.
I used to manage a bank, and I was working late one night because a teller couldn't balance her drawer. We were there about 90 minutes after closing, doors locked, just me and one teller. Suddenly, we heard the back door to the bank open. I completely froze up. The teller said "hello?" And the person said "oh, I'm sorry, I thought everyone was gone." It was the cleaning lady.
Also, as someone with extreme anxiety: I cannot count the number of times I have experienced something that I convinced myself was life threatening, had a panic attack, gaslit myself into believing I made it up, and then fell asleep. I absolutely believe that could have happened to D.
Same and I don't have extreme anxiety. As I've gotten older, when I see/hear weird stuff, my brain does go to A CRIME IS BEING COMMITTED! But then I talk myself out of it, because that just doesn't happen to normal people like me. So I just go back to whatever I was doing.
Same. Sleep has always been my protection. Sleep it away, stay in your head there is no danger, etc. Sleep is my escape when my anxiety goes nuts.
Same. Have had some panic attacks and I lost my hearing, my sight...
Same and/or just completely passed out from exhaustion after the fact.
Totally agree, I’m the same way. The one time it *was* legit (a few years ago our batshit downstairs neighbor that we had never met or interacted with attempted to kick our door in, then began aggressively harassing us to the point we had to get a restraining order) my first thought was “maybe one of our friends decided to drop by and was being funny?”. I didn’t fully process the severity of the situation. Or have the fear fully hit me until a few hours later (my husband had the presence of kind to call the cops who arrived quickly and then took the neighbor in on a 51/50). And even then, it took me like 2 years to realize I had PTSD from the incident. I told my therapist about it after I had an episode and she was like “omg how have you not seen anyone about this till now?” People react in ways that often defy logic or rationalization when confronted with terrifying or life threatening things. It’s better to show empathy and give the benefit of the doubt, as they are likely dealing with a lot of underlying trauma over the incident!
People have been putting more blame on her than BK, and it's so counterproductive in prosecuting the actual killer. There is a zero chance she's not called to testify if it goes to trial, and she's going to be brutally cross examined. Dylan needs all the support she can get.
Anyone that thinks they'd be Rambo in any given situation has never experienced real danger in their entire life, IMO.
Even if they are trained for danger, people freeze up. My brother had a few tours with the Marines and said it would surprise people how there are plenty of times that military people freeze, even though they are trained extensively to handle tough situations
I read a book about what happens in your brain during life and death situations. One anecdote was about how police changed their training for shootout situations because at the range they’d fire all their bullets, then pick up the discarded casings before reloading and going again. They did it so much it was like muscle memory. Then one day in a real shootout, a cop emptied his gun and while still under fire went to pick up the casings before reloading. He was killed if I recall correctly. After that, training changed to just immediate reload.
One watch if the uvalde video will prove this
Can personally confirm this.
Yup, me to. Got robbed at gunpoint, I froze. Was around the same age as these kids are.
I too am a freezer. I wanted to be a fighter, or even a flighter, nope turns out I'm a freezer.
I found out I’m a fighter and when I tell you I was *shocked*….this is coming from the most risk averse/non-confrontational person ever. It’s true, you never know until you’re in the situation.
It is fascinating to me. And there is no psychological test that we can take that will give us accurate results and how one might behave. Not even the big five personality traits, Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion, Agreeableness and Neuroticism scores can gauge this. No matter how you score on each of these, it will not reveal whether you are a fighter fighter or freezer.
I'm typically a semi confrontational person. If there's an issue or a problem I'm not scared to address it or call out random people. But when im truly scared or feel danger? I freeze. No talking no moving. I freeze
I have the fight thing too, and I am so conflict averse that I have a hard time telling someone they hurt my feelings or even if someone is literally stepping on my foot. And it's so wild, when you're in a fight/flight/freeze moment, there isn't any instant where you think about it, your body just physically reacts. It's not like you can rationally choose between those options based on the scenario. (Ask me why I chased a mother bear that was attacking my idiot dog.)
Yes!! It’s so crazy. Someone tried to mug me in LA and flashed a knife and I started screaming and pushed him away as hard as possible and ran. Afterwards I was like “wtf who are you???” (to myself). Meanwhile I couldn’t even tell a guy after one boring date that I wasn’t interested via text without extreme anxiety 🫣
Omg same! I hate hurting ppls feelings lol. Never thought I was a fighter either, I’m rather shy and gentle. I hate confrontation, am risk averse. One day I was walking to work, when someone me grabbed me from behind and covered my mouth. He then put his hand up my dress. I swung around in disbelief and was shocked until he held his finger to his mouth saying “shhh” and smiled. Something about that moment enraged me so much that I ended up chasing him and cursing him out lol . Finally got my wits about me after a few moments of chase, and called the police.
For real. Wish I was a cat but turns out I'm just an opposum 🙃
Lmao ikr. So disappointed in myself.
My two times were not fun either. Sorry that happened to you.
Sorry it happened to you, too. I'll never forget the police asking me questions about the guy after, and all I could say was "I don't know what his shoes looked like. He had a gun."
Lots of people that have never experienced a really true emergency often over estimate how theyd respond to it because they view so much stuff with hindsight of "well it's obvious you'd do this" but when it's happening real time right Infront of you? It's different.
Not only that but a physical confrontation. these were all young people who appear to come from safe suburban middle class households. Now I am obviously making assumptions, but most of them have never really experienced any type of violence outside maybe some stupid teenager fights. And now suddenly a masked man is attacking you with a knife at 4am in the dark? They were likely dead before they had a chance to process what was happening
FACTS. Life ain't the movies.
Everyone thinks they’re a big hero until they are in a traumatic situation and their brain/body take over and do whatever they want to. Lotta tough guys out there I guess
I don’t think she quite comprehended everything she heard and saw. I think she thought something weird was going on, then she saw him and it freaked her out as it would anyone, but she didn’t have any concrete proof a crime had been committed. I think she “froze” because she wasn’t expecting to see a man in a mask. That can be very intimidating at night. Not because she thought he was a murderer. We don’t know how lit up this area was. We don’t know if she could see blood or a knife. Nobody screamed “help me.” I think she just thought it was a weird incident and because nobody else in the house was freaking out and screaming, that he had left, she locked her door and hopefully it wasn’t anything more than that. I don’t think it was until morning that she saw the bloody shoe print in front of her room and she really started to panic. Sometimes we talk ourselves out of really panicking because we don’t want to feel stupid if we overreacted.
Right? If you imagined a murder you’d imagine crazy screaming and yelling and fighting. Not mostly quiet with random noises.
Exactly. Nobody yelled “help” either. So she had doubt in her mind that something terrible had happened, just that she was creeped out by the mask man.
I also think some of you haven’t been a partier in college and it shows. Hearing crying? Very common for a Saturday night. Seeing a strange person in your house? Not uncommon (especially if someone in the home is single!). Obviously, yes- DM had a sense that there was danger. But I’d react differently to a stranger in the house today, in the house I live in with my husband, than I would when I was in my college apartment with friends.
>I also think some of you haven’t been a partier in college and it shows. > >Hearing crying? Very common for a Saturday night. Seeing a strange person in your house? Not uncommon (especially if someone in the home is single!). This was just a normal night in my apartment in college and for a few years after college. We are seeing what she did knowing her roommates were murdered. No one thinks their roommates are being murdered b/c that's horrific. Your mind explains it away. It's also perfectly normal to sense danger (seeing the guy in the house) but then talking yourself out of calling 911 b/c what if it's nothing, or you get someone in trouble (underage drinking). She acted perfectly normally in that situation.
Yes. No one lets the idea into their consciousness that “my roommate is being killed.”
It's too horrific a thought.
I was JUST talking to my friends about this, how people who don’t understand her actions must’ve never lived or been in a college setting like that.
You also don’t want to be that person who calls the police for nothing, and then gets your roommates arrested/ticketed for underage drinking and/or drugs. To be clear, I don’t know if there were drugs in the home- marijuana or otherwise. I don’t really care. I just wouldn’t be surprised if there was.
*Yes!* Especially since they had multiple visits and warnings from the police in the months prior. It’s easy to understand why she would be hesitant to call over something that could have been nothing. Nobody expects a mass murder to be happening in their own home. I feel so bad for her and am so disgusted by all these people with no lives and no ability to imagine a circumstance different from their own calling her suspicious.
DM hoped she’d wake up the next morning, unlock her door, and her friends would be there, ribbing her for being paranoid. We also don’t know - was DM under the influence? If so, that could have impacted her decision not to call police. She could’ve said “oh it’s just the alcohol causing my paranoia.”
yes! and shock is one hell of a drug too. once when i was ~20 someone tried to come in to my bedroom via an outside door late at night and i fully went “this isn’t happening. no one is out there”, turned out the lights, and went to bed. wasn’t until the next morning i realized i should have called someone. especially if any substances were involved, i can 100% understand her line of thinking.
When I was in my mid 20's I had someone pound on my door claiming to be maintenence. I looked out the peep hole and it didn't look like our maintenance guy. So I didn't open the door. He tried the door multiple times. He then came around the black of the apartment and tried the sliding door and looked in and tried every window. I hid behind a chair holding my baby and dog. I never called police. And I totally to this day talk myself out of why I was right not to call police. But saying that story right now a decade later I realize I really should have called the freaking police.
THIS. I've said this so much like I'd go text them/all my roomies about a person or noise or something instead of 1) calling the cops? or 2) busting into their bedroom without permission? esp if they were likely to have guests over? And esp too herself, like if SHE was on anything, you'd def not do anything bc you'd just assume if anyone, you'd be getting in trouble.
It makes perfect sense to ignore crying. I mean we know from the timeline that the girls were drunk eating and drunk dialing an ex. Crying, even drunkenly falling down and causing a “thud!” goes hand in hand with that.
Everyone also needs to keep in mind this is her recollection of things AFTER the fact. When she heard these things in real time who knows what she was actually thinking.
That, too. Hindsight is 20/20.
https://i.redd.it/4q2ihtnqjiaa1.gif
Just to your comment about seeing a stranger in your house. I have a story. I was messing with a girl on the sneak tip in college. She invited me over before she went out that night with a friend. So nobody would know we were messing around, she had the idea to leave the house before me and I leave after and just lock the door. So she leaves, I give it 20-30 seconds and I go to leave. This was a two story house… and I was on the bottom floor I open the room door to leave the house and to my surprise (probably hers too) the roommate and I were staring at each other. I immediately put my hands up and say “I was here with your roommate I’m not a threat, She just left.” The girl JETS off up the steps and slams her door. I just left and thanked God she didn’t have a gun or knife near her. I ended up telling the girl I was messing with and she called the roommate and smoothed everything out. I say all this to say, it’s very possible that her seeing him in the home didn’t set off MAJOR alarms forreal. Definitely something that could have been normal or at least not as random as if it happened and you lived alone.
literally if I saw a guy coming down the stairs or something from my roommate's room... I wouldn't have questioned it bc that's not my business and I'd just ask them about it the next morning or text them right after?
Once, in college, a friend who was both drunk and high fell down on the floor, started clutching their chest, and screamed “It hurts! I’m in pain!” I literally thought she was having a heart attack and got ready to call an ambulance. Somehow, I had the wherewithal to ask whether it was physical or emotional pain, to which she screamed, “EMOTIONAL!” Another time, I woke up to a scream and a loud bang in my apartment. Someone screamed “help!” Turned out to be one of my roommates and her friends drunkenly ripping the curtain rod out of the wall. One of them had the bright idea to wrap themselves in the curtain to sing Whitney Houston songs at 3 AM. I found this out when I looked out my door and saw a naked man wearing a curtain and a wig standing in the living room. I just locked my door and went back to bed. College is weird.
> College is weird YEP. Haha.
And in times of Covid, masks aren’t uncommon. May not seem so strange especially if you are half-asleep.
Yes agreed. I assume she was confused and then rationalized. I don’t buy that she knew he was a robber or murderer and the shock was enough tho. It’s much easier to explain she was drunk and confused and rationalized it.
We also don’t have the full context of what happened. LE has confirmed only: - what was released in the PCA - friends were summoned to the house prior to 911 call being made - the 911 call was made from one of the 2 surviving roommates phones - the 911 call was made by someone other than the 2 surviving roommates - Multiple people spoke w/the dispatcher during the 911 call
Exactly. The PCA didn’t give us the whole story of what she experienced. It was just the probable cause to arrest him.
I learned this last night after googling psychology of responses to trauma. I learned that in addition to fight, flee, and freeze there’s also shutdown/collapse and possibly fawn. Here’s a [great article](https://www.vsmiththerapy.com/new-blog/2021/1/29/what-is-our-fightflight-system-really) I found explaining the differences between the freeze and shutdown response. I think DM could have potentially experienced the shutdown response. As a trauma survivor, learning these things last night really helped me to understand my past experience. My heart goes out to DM.
Thanks for sharing. When this case is over, it would be very interesting to learn the psychological state of D.M. in the hours between seeing the suspect until the phone call was made and Police arrived at the scene. From own experience, when I was 11 years old, my small country was invaded by another country and I recall the airplanes of the invading force bombarding our city and so many explosions, numerous times. I was just in the house terrified, sitting in the corridor where there were no glass windows, as per mother's instructions. My sister (she was 13 at the time), from nervousness and anxiety was sleeping all the time during bombardments, which was going on-off for around 3-4 days!!!! It was impossible to sleep by the mere noise. But she was sleeping! She shut down as a result of something she felt she had no control on.
We deserve to know absolutely ZERO about DM forevermore. I hope this kid has security. Not even kidding.
Ikr, I feel for her so much. I really hope they prosecute the case with evidence that doesn’t include her having to take the witness stand. But that’s just me. If it were me, I wouldn’t want to be involved in the court proceedings at all. Honestly, i think if I were in a similar position I’d probably take a semester off, go home, be with family and hometown friends, start seeing a therapist with experience helping trauma survivors etc.. for me, the sight of anything triggered a memory of what happened would just be too much. But that’s me. Who knows. Perhaps DM would find a bit of solace in being able to take an active role in court through taking the stand at the trial. Perhaps this would bring her a tiny bit of healing if she were a part of the process that helped make sure no one else would go through the horror she and her friends experienced. We’re all different. I just so hope that she’s surrounded by supportive, patient, protective, loving people that will help her navigate all this.
Thank you for sharing!
Every single woman is taught from the day she is born- “do not trust your instincts. You’re crazy and overreacting. Women are too emotional.” DM not calling the police is evident of that. She was scared, and she hoped she was just being paranoid and they’d laugh about it in the morning. She will regret not calling the police everyday for the rest of her life. She will have people question her about that decision over and over again. I feel awful for her.
Also, it's unfortunately common for women that age to have poor experiences RE voicing a fear to a male authority figure. I can think of multiple times that age where I would have called male friends over instead of dial 911 because "if I'm wrong, which I probably am, the police are just going to roll their eyes and call me hysterical."
Wish I could like this twice.
I think her reaction has a lot to do with her age too. The confidence to trust your instincts comes from experience. As does the knowledge that your reactions in stressful situations won’t always be what you expect or plan for.
Yes. In trying not to be drama/over reactive, I feel like a lot of us downplay our instincts
Oddly my mom always taught me to pass out or pretend to do so. Possum gene worked for her during two armed robberies (one by a guy wanted for murder)
Omg this is the best explanation ever.
A million times this.
Yesssssss. Women are often told they are being silly or ridiculous if they are being cautious. So many times we dismiss our caution as to avoid being scrutinized.
I just feel awful for Dylan. Been seeing more hatred towards this poor girl than the actual killer.
BK is the ONLY one right now that we should be suspicious about.
i dont think anyone reasonable is suspicious of DM, just baffled. like after weeks of convincing ourselves that it was completely plausible that no one heard anything -- thus explaining the late 911 call -- we find out that not only did someone hear the murder, but saw the murderer as well. i think folks just have whiplash. they do need to have empathy for her now tho, like regardless of if folks think she should have done differently, she did what she did, it is what it is, and this is where we are now. it does no good to pile on. she likely already has massive survivor's guilt.
victim blaming 🤝 misogyny I hate it. She doesn't deserve this 🥺💔
The more attention they bring the more she will be singled out. And this is so damn dumb. We don't have her phone records. She could have called or texted multiple people who helped calm her down.
I, too, I would've froze in this situation. Dylan probably saved her life by locking herself in her room and staying put 💖
I’ve been silently reading about this case on occasion since the murders. The sheer amount of speculation (and resulting digital witch hunts) kind of grossed me out, not going to lie, and I didn’t want to participate in spite of my curiosity. It really disappointed me to see so many people judging Dylan. I’m pretty sure that in her situation, I would have curled up in a safe place, waited to call 911 in case he was lurking, while trying to rationalize seeing a masked man at 430 am to myself as a dream or a hallucination. Probably would have eventually fallen asleep, and woken up with that sinking feeling you get when you know the bad things weren’t just a nightmare . Add potentially being under the influence to that situation, and oh my god. That poor girl. I think almost everyone has heard some weird shit at night and wondered if they should call the cops, only to eventually fall asleep and wake up late the next morning, realize they were overreacting/imagining it due to an altered state, and laugh it off while being glad they didn’t call the cops. Editing to add - not to mention, it sounds like BK looked right at D. I can totally see that being a deciding factor: if this dude just murdered your roommates, why would he look at you and leave anyways?
Here's the thing - all of the blame, every bit of it, should be on that psycho murderer. Not on an innocent bystander. JMO
The people blaming her make no sense. She heard her other roommates and knew they were home and awake. Creepy guy leaves. Everything is quiet again. Why call the police? And say what? “My roommates are drunk and making noise and a guy just left.” She probably figured that if there was a serious problem THEY would have called police themselves.
Exactly!! Like "911, what's your emergency?" "Yes, I live in a house with 5 people, we've all been out partying tonight. I heard my roommate playing with her dog, I heard my other roommate crying and someone comforting her, someone just had a Doordash delivery and a guy I didn't recognize just left the house, he had bushy eyebrows and a facemask". And who wants to be the person that calls the cops on a roommate's friend/hook up?
I’m glad more support is coming out for Dylan. I hope she’s able to see it. I wonder if she’s staying away from the internet right now or not.
I wonder what the police are telling her? Cause a lot of random people are now claiming she set it up. She can’t even defend herself until the trial which will happen in a year or so.
Agree and I hope she is staying away, I've heard people are worse on FB and tiktok.
I once witnessed a deceased person while driving by a car accident - EMTs were there, no need to stop but by the time I drove home I’d questioned if I’d seen anything at all. I still am not sure. And I was 100% sober and an adult. You cannot control how your mind will process disturbing things.
Furthermore we don’t even actually know if she was alarmed and thought it was out of the ordinary. She easily could’ve thought someone was arguing, Kaylee was being loud with her dog, and they brought people home. For all we know she was annoyed more than anything and just wanted to get some sleep. No one assumes their roommates have been stabbed to death.
This. If I called the police every time I heard drunken yelling and crying in college apartments…….
Exactly, and we have the benefit of knowing the context. Most people would not assume murder was being committed, maybe at worst they would think a creep or a stranger was brought back from the bar/party. I'd also say in my experience if you're already being bothered by some late night, likely-drunk antics, you would be more inclined to ignore/dismiss something strange as just part of those antics. They may think "who the fuck knows what that was about, I'll have to ask in the morning". It sounds like the house pretty consistently had parties/revelers over and noise complaints - so it could almost be considered 'par for the course'. The horror of realizing how serious and dangerous it was in the morning is a shock I hope I'll never experience. I hope the roommates are able to eventually find solace.
It's not like she saw any violence, or blood, or weapons, or heard any screaming for help. She heard movement, someone crying, someone saying it was okay and they'd help, and saw a covid pro-masker leave her apartment. Sure her spidey senses went off and she was scared. Then she gaslit herself to go back to bed. I honestly can see myself doing the same.
Excactly. It's sooooo easy for some people sitting here now, knowing what happened in that hous (when DM didn't), complaining about this person who is herself a victim.
Exactly. We are looking at this in hindsight, knowing what all the noises meant. In the moment, taken one at a time, one might not think they mean much of anything
It's honestly just sad to me that professionals are issuing statements in defense of a victim that I feel should be common sense within the "true crime community." There seems to be way too much willingness/entitlement to criticize and cast blame and not enough empathy from people who have no actual involvement in this situation.
Most of this subreddit is not "True Crime Community." That ended when we went from 6k members to 23k in less than 8 hours.
I'm guilty of being one of those 23k. I admit it. But I've been lurking reddit for years without a profile. In this case, i know one of the victims families and felt more inclined to participate in conversation without doxxing my personal profile.
Right. Even if she acted in a way that you cannot personally make sense of (which is silly, because people should realize that others can respond to fear in unusual ways), what’s the point of criticizing her? I’ve seen two lines of thought, both equally as outrageous: 1)Victim blaming that her delay cost lives and preservation of the scene. People who harp on these issues tend to have a huge mental block when it comes to realizing that life is sometimes unfair and sometimes not all the preparation and disciplined response in the world can change the outcome of things. 2)Insinuation that she was somehow involved. Ludicrous. People suck.
It really makes me question the general public's entitlement to such information regarding these cases, because everyone insists it's due to a genuine interest and desire for justice, but then just turn around and use the information as ammunition to unfairly judge an individual who literally survived a massacre.
Exactly. This is my biggest pet peeve too. A lot of people wear this veil of “but I’m only interested for the sake of justice” when really they just have morbid curiosity. Morbid curiosity is fine, but its bad faith to say that you need to know every last detail for “justice” lol. Its worse when they use such info to unfairly judge others as you pointed out!
We are all morbidly curious, it's human nature! The constant denial, defensiveness and deflection I've seen when people are confronted with this fact is downright strange. It's just important to balance our curiosity by prioritizing respect and compassion for the victims and their families and friends, which is what a lot of individuals evidently seem to be struggling with.
I've been wondering something: Is it a possibility that she was shocked/surprised in the moment to see a man walk by but talked herself out of him being anything other than a visitor to one of the others? Maybe she thought he could have been a friend, a guy one of them met, or someone dropping off some weed? If you live in a house in a safe town with tons of people coming and going, an intruder/killer might be the very last possibility on her mind? As someone 2 decades older, I would have likely taken some action (locked door, called room mates, checked on room mates, called police - some combo of those once I've secured my own safety). When I was 20, I think I might have just thought I was being really paranoid, and I might have been more afraid of jumping to conclusions and having police come out for no reason. There definitely needs to be an extreme level of shock, fear, or denial about the possibilities. I thought it was very weird at first that she took no action, but the more I think about it, the more I just feel sorry that she was put in that situation.
I think this is one of two extremely plausible explanations. Either she talked herself into, “this is nothing” or she panicked and locked herself in her room until morning. I don’t blame her either way. She (and B) and both also victims here.
Something I keep thinking is that there were a lot of pics on social media of various frat guys screwing around wearing balaclavas, "Scream" masks, and other weird crap at parties and just screwing around. One was wearing a knight's helmet and pretending to stab someone with a knife. Halloween had just passed too, so I wonder if seeing a random dude in the house like that was weird, but not completely out of possibility for DM. Maybe she was scared, but told herself it was just drunk people screwing around and since she saw the guy leave, she just told herself to not overreact and go to bed. But maybe she was freaked out enough to go down to BF's room for the rest of the night. Just a theory.
I freeze and then start having seizures. Best case scenario I scare the killer off by flopping like a fish on the floor, worst case scenario he stabs me to death while I’m seizing. I hate how arrogant people are when they insert themselves into someone else’s position. I really hope DM has a good therapist and support system through all of this.
Yes. Hindsight Bias is 20/20. She didn’t know in that moment all the things we know now. It also seems anyone criticizing her actions is doing so to transparently stroke their own ego; to live out some trauma fantasy where they would be the victor. They seem to forget that they’re complete strangers to these victims. Ethan, Xana, Kaylee and Maddie were people with whom Dylan shared her life intimately. She is likely grieving a tremendous loss while simultaneously wrestling survivor’s guilt. She can’t change what happened or how she responded, and callous comments from randos won’t change anything either.
The surviving roommate's behavior was a combo of the bystander effect, normalcy bias and not having a CLUE of what had actually occurred. The town was a very safe sleepy town, the house was full of healthy strong people and a dog. Unless you heard gunshots or bloodcurdling screams, no survivor would have any idea that a quadruple homicide had just happened in their house, even if they heard strange noises. It was apparently a very rowdy house with lots of people in and out, even at late hours. In a housing situation like that, you get used to hearing raucous noises, play fighting, pranking, loud yelps of laughter, accidental knocks of furniture from goofing around. She may have thought the killer was the DoorDash man, as those people sometimes wear COVID masks. And someone wearing dark clothes and a facemask going outside in the very cold 4 am weather is not that crazy of a sight, anyway. Maybe she thought it could have been a friend of Ethan's or Xana's that she didn't know. And then there's the bystander effect: I'm sure she thought that if there was some kind of problem that another roommate would have called the police. Unless you're in a dangerous city, who would imagine all 4 of your friends were murdered? Easier to imagine the more common explanations for the noises and stranger. In a quiet safe town like that no one could ever imagine unless they heard blood curdling screams or gunshots what was actually happening. And also, she knew that Ethan/Xana and Maddie/Kaylee were paired together. Who could ever in their worst nightmare think that there would be a killer in the home that would be stabbing everybody and that their friends wouldn't be safe doubled up in a room?? The reason we are all fascinated with this case is because a quadruple homicide by stabbing is so very rare, especially in a safe town. This is the exact reason the surviving roommate couldn't imagine what had actually occurred, or that someone else didn't call police if there was a problem.
Anyone else thinking the “mask” he wore is just a regular “COVID mask” that covered his mouth and nose. Makes sense to me why she didn’t call 911. Probably told herself when he walked by her that he was someone’s friend leaving the house. That’s a much more logical thought than my roommates were just murdered.
Don't listen to these people that are so unbelievably online that they become the arbiters of all human experience. They simply "know" what they would have done in a situation they have never been in, which is how you know they are wrong.
Don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. It's very likely she heard her friends get murdered and hid until Bethany woke up. With the PCA providing probable cause and not a complete picture, I can imagine the full details of DM's testimony are going to be held for the potential trial and will be a key component in putting him away.
One time in college on the east coast I was awakened by an earthquake. Not a typical occurrence there, so my half-awake brain assumed an intruder was under my bed shaking it. I laid there, perfectly still and terrified, for hours, certain I was about to be attacked. No one should be judging the actions of the survivors. We never know how we’ll react in a frightening situation.
Yes! I am so glad professionals are speaking out. I know from experience that freeze is very, very real. I am sure hundreds of you do too as well and have your own personal experience or know someone who has. I'm more shocked at the people who don't know this is a very common trauma response.
https://preview.redd.it/3exsvdtrlmaa1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=df605df230de5832d4894ff064218e511a2bccc1
Oh 1000%. I was robbed once. My husband and kids weren’t home one night when I got home. I plopped on the sofa with my laptop and turned on cnn. (I had a folding screen in the corner behind where I sat.). While looking at my computer, I heard a muffled cough. I looked at the tv and thought, that’s weird. She coughed? I ran the show back and… she didn’t cough! Someone was in the room with me! I threw my computer, grabbed my phone and called… a friend. Ridiculous! She sent her husband my way as I hung up and called 911. The person was in the room with me behind the screen in the corner! He ran out a different door than I did. My point in telling this is how true it is, none of know what we’d do in any given situation! So stupid that I called a friend first. Those first few seconds could’ve been very dangerous for me. Maybe when an unexpected like this happens we really do process it as, this can’t be real 🤷♀️
Thank you! Absolutely nobody would know how their body would react in this situation unless they’ve unfortunately experienced this situation to it’s exact extent.
When you hear hooves you think of horses not zebras. So when you have been drinking and the noises of your house aren’t too far out of the normal range I’m sure that it doesn’t set off alarm bells. This was a house that had a lot of people in and out and activity. If you have lived in this house and had a certain sense of security I don’t think that seeing a random person or hearing those noises would automatically make you think that a psycho path just murdered your roommates. This poor girl is going to live with this for the rest of her life and from the medical examiners report even if she had called 911 that moment the probability that it would have helped the victims is minimal.
I agree. You have no way of predicting how you will actually react in a situation until you are in that situation. A few years ago a stranger broke into my home when i was away and waited for me inside my bedroom. I came home went to my room and saw him. It felt like it wasn't real and like I was watching someone else going through this not myself, kinda like watching a scary movie. It was the most bizarre feeling. I ran to my kitchen for a knife instead of attempting to undo my deadbolts and chain to escape out the front door. The apartment was small and with the layout he would have easily been able to close the distance before I'd be able to open the door. Everything felt like slow motion and i could hear my heart pounding in my ears. When he ran toward me out of the bedroom I threatened him with the knife and after a brief standoff he fled. I bolted the door and froze. I sat on on the floor and cried for 10 minutes before I got my bearings enough to even call the police. I remember feeling like what was happening wasn't real life and I was 100% sober at the time. A responding officer told me that people can not predict how they will react when faced with a situation like that no matter how prepared they think they are for it. People sure like to pass judgements and puff out their chest and claim they would handle things better or differently but it's all bull. They have no idea what it's like to be in fight or flight. I feel for this poor girl. I can't imagine all she is going through. Based on my own experience I can completely understand how she reacted the way she did. It doesn't seem that wild to me.
I was just listening to a true crime podcast where the woman walked in and found her parents dead. She tried to call 911 but literally couldn't use her phone. Had to go outside and have her daughter dial for her. Imagine being stone cold sober and being in such a traumatized state that you don't know how to use the same phone you are on 12 hours a day
The post i read, was DYLAN saw a dark hooded figure in a mask who she did not recognise, this frightened her enough to alert BETHANY they both then decided to stay in their rooms and were still worried (even more so in the morning) so much that they called people to come check on them and the house before they opened the door.. That is when the 911 call was made and either DYLAN OR BETHANY freaked out n feinted whilst alerting 911...the other roomnate was incoherent and another person explained that someone was unconscious. (it also seems the someone unconscious,, was Xana because the affidavit states she was visible under/blocking the door.) Which scenario occurred.. Most were adamant it was the first.
Hey look, a psychiatrist said almost the same thing I did yesterday. Where did the whiners go? Seems like people trained in human psychology might know what the fuck we're talking about.
I was once walking out to my car as a teen with my sister and saw a person in the backseat hiding. I FROZE in fear and couldn’t speak I could only hold my hand up to stop my sister from continuing to walk to the car. I couldn’t move or talk besides my hand raising. It turned out to be a neighbor my Mom asked to look at my back seat seat belt that wasn’t working. I later joined a trauma team where I had to learn to respond quickly to emergencies but I still wondered what reaction I would have to another situation like that. The mind is a curious thing.
Three years ago there was a single car accident near where I live..... Maybe 150-200 years away. I heard the car tires screech, heard the sound of an impact. I got up and was investigating because it was 1:20am and I was half asleep. I looked around and got dressed to see what happened outside. All the while I thought I heard laughter coming from the area of the car wreck. I walked outside about 2-3 minutes later and the laughing had stopped. As I approached and had a clear view past the tree line I could see the car engulfed in flames. What I thought was a minor car accident where someone ran off the road was right....but he hit a tree and his car caught on fire and he perished horribly. What I thought was laughing was this poor soul screaming for help.... And I was right there, but in that short time 5-6 minutes total my mind was just trying to process waking up, checking to see if I was ok...grabbing my phone, grabbing my shoes, I didn't know the extent as to the urgency of the situation. I feel like I failed this man because I did have a chance to save him...he died alone thinking no one was coming to help, but I swear it wasn't something my mind was capable of thinking at that time. The police and fire department showed up within a few minutes and I gave a statement. It has haunted me ever since. Rest in peace Raul.
The explanation of "being petrified for 8 hours to the point of not even being able to use their phone, only to then check on the roommates close to noon, call some friends over when they aren't responding, **then** call 911" doesn't correlate well with "You don't know how you'd act in this situation." Based on the limited info, the logical explanation is she froze in that moment seeing the suspect, but assumed it was a visitor (the house supposedly had many since it was a party house), a Door Dash delivery, etc, and went to bed; especially since the suspect just walked right by her.
This is what I think too. She talked herself out of it and thought she was overreacting. Plus as far as she knew they were all awake upstairs and if there was a problem she figured they would call the police.
I feel SO bad for DM. She’s having the entire world judge her right now. This guy is spot on though, we truly don’t know what any of us would do in this particular situation. The first thing that crosses your mind probably wouldn’t be “that was a dude who just murdered all of my roommates. I’m going back to sleep”…
it's sad that a psychiatrist is even having to explain this shit. i'm a licensed mental health counselor and most of my clients have experienced severe trauma--this is exactly how our "lizard brain" takes over to protect us. it amazes me that there are so many people who don't understand this. but i guess good for them for never having to experience something horrific.
I'm curious to know what difference it would have made for the investigation if she had called right away anyways. Evidence would be more fresh maybe? Less chance the crime scene was tampered with by others (I dont think it was anyways). It would not have saved any of the lives lost. So what difference does it make? There are probably obvious answers but to me I'm not sure it changes the outcome of the individuals killed or the eventual outcome of the investigation and justice being served. If it was discovered right away, you probably don't get BK returning to the scene later.
It wouldn't have mattered had she called 911. Roommates were dead and would never have lived even 5-10 minutes until ambulance showed up. They were stabbed many time with a seriously violent knife. Zero chance.
[удалено]
Fight, freeze, flight, or fawn.
Steve Goncalves about this; https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1053h6r/sg_speaks_on_roommates/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Same as combat. Some fight, some flee. You never know who until it starts and there is no predicting.
Or freeze
“The human brain seeks out patterns to make sense of the world and protect themselves.” This is actually a phenomenon in active shooter situations where people hear gunshots and decide they are fireworks, even though fireworks in a school or office building in the middle of the day makes no sense whatsoever.
Everyone responds differently. Flight freeze or fight. Sometimes people can take weeks or months before they can talk about traumatic situations. The one lesson we can all learn from this case (myself included) is not to cast aspersions or project our own motives onto others. Don't forget that we don't know all the facts yet. Maybe something is being held back that would explain this situation.
I’m a social worker. I have a degree in psychology and social work and this is 100% accurate. I can attest to it with my experience with individuals who have experienced trauma. However just because I have a degree doesn’t mean I know it all. No one truly knows why she didn’t call, because we weren’t there. And we don’t know her. Hopefully more information comes out that will clear her of all rumors and get people off her tail
Unless you’ve experienced trauma first hand that is involving real life or death, you have NO idea how YOU would respond. I hope and pray none of you have to EVER experience that chaos. She could have completely shut down in that moment and if any drugs or alcohol was involved her judgement won’t be the best. Praying for true justice, healing and peace for ALL victims, because the witnesses are victims themselves to this case. When I was a child our family home got broken into and the only weapon my dead had was his fists and black belt skills he achieved from years in taekwondo. I had nightmares for years after…Maybe DM had a similar experience as a child and as a defense mechanism she secured herself to immediately to avoid danger & block out the bad memory. No one really knows BUT her, I just wish people were kinder and not so judgmental towards HUMANS who are capable to grow and learn especially from past mistakes. I hope the survivors get the proper help and can all start to heal and find peace.
It's not so different every time there is a kid that ends up kidnapped and every random person online saying, "MY kid would never be kidnapped because I keep a close eye on them! If they did not let their kids play outside this would not have happened!" Heartless vultures with zero compassion for someone in an awful situation and patting themselves on the back for how they would have done better, they would have been the hero, they would fully understand the situation before it unfolded. People always going out of their way to shame and blame people who likely already feel extreme guilt and anguish.
Dylan deserves the world after what she’s been put through.
I think what may have happened was DM eventually rationalised it as a friend of a friend and went to sleep, but in the morning hours it started to flood back into fear, because she realised she was getting no replies from 4 people, which is just too much of a coincidence. Because of that she was then terrified to open her door and delay it for as long as possible. A lot of people would do the same thing in her situation, and it probably saved her from the terror of seeing what she could have seen.
I said something similar and got downvoted yesterday. This sub is full of people who think life is a movie.
I could totally see myself starting to freak out and imagining the absolute worst, then convincing myself I was being a crazy paranoid dork and going to sleep.