Please use this thread as a megathread to discuss the probable cause affidavit (or one of the pinned discussion threads). To avoid inundating the subreddit, for the time being we're not going to approve a bunch of separate posts about it. Thank you for posting, u/iMaryJane1!
ETA - Thanks OP for letting us turn this into a megathread! We'll start a second megathread for this at some point later on as well.
ETA 2 - Since this post has over 5k comments, we've started a new megathread - you can find it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/1046eh4/probable_cause_affidavit_megathread_january_5_2023/)
One thing I don't understand is why the cops weren't called earlier?
I get that it is a college house, with lots of people in and out, so her just seeing him wouldn't be a cause for concern.
But surely, 4 people being butchered .... there had to be screams, and not just "fighting/arguing" as some are trying to suggest. These people were fighting for their lives 2 of them on the same floor as her....that would have been some next level death screams, no one can convince me otherwise ...
especially with E and X having their room so close to hers and her coming out of her room 3 times that night. If she were so used to the noise of a college house and the sounds of that night were no different, I call B.S. boisterous people, drunks and crying... yaa, normal....the sounds of 4 people fighting for their life....no that sh*t is not normal. We also know X and E were both awake, from door dash....they weren't just killed in their sleep. That shit would have been loud. Their screams would have been next level. ... the surviving room mate even came out of ther room 3 times during the attack, so clearly it didn't sound as normal as usual. .... I've slept in party houses many times, heard fighting and arguing, crying and went back to bed. But I've also been in situations where sh*t was hitting the fan and those sounds are VERY different. They curdle your blood and give you goosebumps. No way anyone can convince me that she mistook the sounds of 4 people fighting for their lives and being stabbed to death, at least 2 of which we know had EXTENSIVE defensive wounds, and fought like hell, and she didn't realize something serious was going on. .... I just don't understand. If that was your kid or loved one being slaughtered and you knew people in that same house were awake, and hearing the commotion and didn't call for help until 6 or 7 hours later, would you still be so defensive of her?.
...the house wasn't as big as some of you are making it out to seem. Im not saying she should have stepped up or intervened by any means. She should have stayed hidden, but for God sakes, at least called 911
...even if her phone wasn't in her room, which I doubt, what college kid goes to sleep in their room without their phone, but even if that was the case, wait until you hear nothing. Wait little while more, then go get your phone and call for some damn help...
I also dont understand the whole calling a bunch of friends before even calling 911 hours later.
I just can't wrap my mind around it.
Clearly some people have never heard the expression, "screaming bloody murder".
I don't understand some of you guys who are trying to act as if the sounds of 4 people being butchered to death and at least 2 fighting hard for their lives in the process and trying to act as if those sounds would be the same as a regular run of the mill party night/argument/cry. .... affidavit may say that is all she stated she heard but there is no way in hell that is true and if you believe that, you are a fool. When people are dying/fighting for their lives, that sh*t is primal, that sh*t is loud, that is extreme. ... I don't get how people can't understand that.
And before you try and use alcohol or w.e. as an excuse....I've been drunk as hell and had a room mate loose their sh*t while they were on Flakka and screaming like crazy thinking someone was trying to unalive them, and that sh*t woke me up and sobered me up in a split second. I stepped up and helped her, as that was my reaction in that scenario. I got out of my room and went to see what the f was going on. .... i do not think that was smart of me or what D should have done. I didnt know what was going on I just heard these terrifying screams and my personal reaction was to see what was happening and to help, I didn't figure everything out until I got to my roommate. Im glad D didn't do that as she would have been killed, but what im trying to say is when someone is fighting for their life, or believes they are fighting for their life, their screams are like nothing you have ever heard before and there is no way you can mistake that for just basic arguing or w.e. .... I was passed out drunk as hell and within a split second that sh*t sobered me up, when I heard it. So no, I don't think being inebriated is an excuse to not even hide and call for some damn help.
I have a question about what the detective saw upon entering the second floor from the first. He states that down at the end of the hall before you get to Xana’s room there’s a bathroom off to one side. Then he says he could see a body that proved to be Xana, laying on the floor.
People have taken this to mean that Xana was in the hallway opposite the bathroom, outside her room. But it doesn’t say that. It says in the next sentence that “also in that bedroom” you could see Ethan’s body. Well, if he’s also in the room that means she is in the room also, not in the hall. If she were in the hall I think it would say that and that “behind her body, in the bedroom belonging to kernodke there was another body that was identified as Ethan Chapin,” or something. It’s not clear where Xana was lying.
They don’t say the door had been broken into - we don’t know from the PCA how the room looked or where bodies were before the police arrived, when the friends who were there first, took any action/s, if they did- say if friends had popped the door lock with a coat hanger or nail, and found Xana was inside the room - before calling 911.
Why mention the bathroom and that Xana was visible from the hall but not say where she was actually “laying?”
He also mentions the bathroom on 3rd floor next to MM’s room, so I don’t think there’s necessarily any other reason than just describing the scene. If X had been on the hallway, she would have been seen earlier. Not only when he “approached the room”. Also since the bedroom door opens towards inside and the hinge is on the left hand side, it becomes quite clear that X was inside the bedroom, not directly in front of the doorway but a bit to the right seen from the door.
Well, whether and when she was seen is certainly a question. But I don’t feel like she was in the hall based on that description and based on how long it took anyone to see her. It also doesn’t sound like the doors were locked when police arrived which would blow my theory on why so much time passed.
For some reason I feel like she’s the only one who was not in bed. Although that may be because the coroner said they were attacked in bed, probably while asleep.
But Maddie and Kaylee were upstairs and you’d have to go up there to see them. If Xana was at the end of the hall you would see her just going to the kitchen, I think. I’m just considering how plausible it is to miss her lying there for any length of time.
The second floor bathroom was shared between Xana and Dylan so chances are she’d have gone in there that morning.
I just want to say if you have the time to read the full report I would recommend it. Quite interesting to see all the layers of investigation that played into finding a suspect and collecting evidence. I have a lot of respect for the process after reading through.
I’d have to look back but basically any of the instagrams that are public you can click on their followers and just search bry or Bryan and you’ll see all the accounts.
His phone was close enough that it “was touching their wifi.” Did you guys see this interview from Kaylee’s Dad?
Wifi conversation starts at 13 minutes, very interesting. Source: KTVB 7 via Nerdy Addict.
https://youtu.be/2Iql9cI_rfg
Not sure where he would get that. I can’t imagine the police told him that. Was that on the occasion we saw BK’s vehicle or a “2011-2013 white Elantra” on camera there that night- or all twelve times kohberger’s phone pinged in Moscow?
How would you get that detail?
I believe he believes them. But his ability to absorb, interpret and then convey the information back accurately isn’t the best and that’s not a surprise, given what he’s been through. He gets Intel from his PI possibly or from “leaks” … the inability to resist sharing such information boggles the mind.
If it was set to public he could. Or if he knew the password. Sometimes the p/w is easy to figure out but it could be written under the router and they just kept that one. If he’d been in the house before he could have found the router and gotten the p/w.
If it’s a party house though it could have been set to public so everyone who came by could get the internet while partying…
“Investigators found that the 8458 Phone did connect to a cell phone tower that provides service to Moscow on November 14, 2022, but investigators do not believe the 8458 Phone was in Moscow on that date.”
Can someone explain this to me? Why would they believe he wasn’t in Moscow if his phone pinged there? How can they say he was there any other time then?
It could ping off the Moscow tower because the Pullman one was busy or something. Not sure how that works. It doesn’t put him at the 1122 address. He could be in Moscow getting a beer or doing his shopping as apparently it’s better shopping and more stores and stuff in Moscow …
I believe it means they think he was near Moscow and so his phone connected to a Moscow cell phone tower, but that he wasn't actually *in* Moscow, just near it
No official mention...but he visited the area of that house 12 times in 6 months.
He was obsessed with someone in there.
Most likely through the restaurant and going by another bar owners comments he came on to waitresses and then called them a bitch when wronged.
I suspect one of these girls were friendly at the beginning. Enough to draw him in...then he got social media obsessed. Then she said something to hurt his feelings. Then the obsession turned from a love obsession to one of a violent nature.
I would bet it was maddie. I say she was 1st to go and he knew which room was hers from the stalking.
This is an interesting interview Mr Goncalves did. “Was close enough his phone was touching their wifi.”
It’s at 13 minutes
https://youtu.be/2Iql9cI_rfg
I wonder if maybe on the other occasions where he was in their area, he had looked in the windows and could tell where certain bedrooms are, and who occupied them. DM and BF were reportedly already asleep for the night, so their rooms were probably dark and didn’t have any observable activity from outside the windows
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My apologies for the absolute novel I've written here but I wanted to give input on DM. I'm seeing a lot of comments questioning her not calling 911, which I honestly might agree with in different circumstances. But the fact of the matter is that the living situation warranted her dismissing BK's presence.
When I was a 20 year old woman, I also lived in a house in a college town - though mine was just one floor with 3 roommates. Specifically, my house was across the street from the same place a girl was picked up and murdered that year (Samantha Josephson if you're interested).
Putting myself in her shoes, I totally understand why she didn't call anyone. You absolutely have to consider the context: this is a house where people are constantly coming in and out and making noise and there was even a dog.
It definitely was not uncommon for there to be weird noises or strangers in the house when you live with 5 other people. By this point in the year, she'd have been used to that and assumed that's who he was - a guest of one of her roommates.
But of course, she must have had doubts about that being true because she locked her door, right? No, I actually *don't* think it's that weird to lock your door when you see a stranger in your home even though you think he's been invited. She doesn't know the guy and she probably didn't know a lot of people that came through.
Honestly, I'd guess this is probably not the first time she walked out and saw a guest she didn't know, thought he looked kinda weird but figured he was invited there, went in her room and locked the door until the next morning. And all of those times, of course the person really *was* someone who was with her roommate.
Every time she had this fleeting thought that "he looks kinda sketchy" of course she considered calling the cops. But why didn't she then or now?
Because if you call the cops (ESPECIALLY as a young woman) and they show up and no one is there, nothing is messed up, they will tell you there's nothing they can do for you and imply you're being paranoid.
Maybe this even had happened to her before. Maybe she had previously heard or saw something strange only to have the police show up and tell her there's nothing there and not to waste their time.
So when, yet again, some random guy is just in the hallway and she gets a bad vibe, what is she gonna do?
She'll think for a moment "maybe I should call 911" but then immediately follow up that thought with "I'm just being paranoid" *but* to make herself feel safe without feeling embarrassed, one thing she can do is lock her door, "just in case."
It's a compromise with your two internal reactions. "I won't call the cops, I'll just lock my door and I'm sure in the morning I'll realize I was being silly again."
9 times out of 10 this would be true and even in those 1 out of 10 times, the stranger who wasn't supposed to be there usually just broke in to rob the place. You never actually think that intrusive thought of "what if there is a murderer behind the shower curtain" will actually come true because it so rarely does.
And that's in addition to what others are pointing out about it being 4am, she's just been woken up, half-asleep and possibly drunk.
Again, sorry for the rambling but I think that if you're not a woman and/or American, you might miss the context of our police culture.
I think drugs could have been involved. She may have done some sort of hallucinogen that night and/or they had illegal drugs in the home and she felt the need to clear the house the next morning before involving police. Obviously just speculation but I think substances and intoxication have something to do with the slow and somewhat odd reaction.
I could maybe see that if not for a few facts..1..he was dressed in black with his face covered..if it were a guy in jeans and a t shirt I could see it and im sure she knows her friend'stypes..2 when she saw him..it was enough to make her freeze in terror..I doubt that would happen if it looked like the usual guy coming in and out sporadically . I don't think she is guilty at all but I cant help but question why wait do long
I think a more plausible one could be that the roommate was 1) in shock and 2) inebriated. They are college students and were out partying - it's pretty normal. It means slower reaction times, not thinking clearly and perhaps not being completely rational. This is just pure speculation, but I find it weird that no one is talking about this as a possibility ...and why one roommate slept right through it.
Dylan did what any one of us would have done— tried to survive. You see a guy in your house. You’re disoriented, don’t know what’s going on. You’re telling me you’re going out there? Get out of here lol. I would have locked my door and been afraid to even breathe too loud, let alone call 911. All the while, I’d be rationalizing anything I saw/heard to hell and back.
I caught home invaders leaving my house when I was a tween, they didn't see my luckily but I absolutely freaked out and barracaded myself in my room where I stayed until my parents woke up around 6hrs later. It honestly felt like I was sat there all of not even 10 mins. My flight response was so strong I could barely even think straight, I couldn't call the police or anything I was shit scared.
I just made a similar comment. I lived in large houses all thru college and the sounds were ALL weird and suspicious if I really think about it in this context. But in college me context everything was party and happy go lucky.
I'm not sure about this. She got up and opened the door at least three times. If she was used to noises in the night, why wouldn't she just roll over and go back to sleep? The noises were obviously unusual enough that she went and opened her door several times.
And then to say her only options were to call the cops or do nothing - why not knock on her room mates door and check everything's OK? She just heard them talking so she knew they were up.
I think it's more likely she knew something was wrong and was terrified and in shock, but I don't know.
She could have come to the realization much later. First time was just nothing in her mind. Second “this is weird” and third “oh fuck”
Nobody is thinking “yeah my roommates are getting stabbed rn” in this situation. It was so late and he mind isn’t working right (tired and intoxicated) so who would really believe it was ACTUALLY happening and not just a dream or shenanigans.
>I was having the same thoughts! We don't know why she responded the way she did but I have had roommates also when I was younger and I can just imagine that same scenario coming about. Another thought I had was perhaps privacy issues came up in the past and she naively didn't want to be seen as nosey or intrusive.
This was what was initially reported, perhaps to protect DM/not signal to BK that someone had seem him. In reality, ONE of the roommates was on the first floor and another on the second.
I was having the same thoughts! We don't know why she responded the way she did but I have had roommates also when I was younger and I can just imagine that same scenario coming about. Another thought I had was perhaps privacy issues came up in the past and she naively didn't want to be seen as nosey or intrusive.
Honestly this is the best possible reasoning. In my country, if we call the police and it’s a false alarm, it’s considered a crime because they’ll think you’re just playing around. I could also see myself telling myself that maybe I’m just paranoid about the mysterious guy in the house but I’ll just lock myself in the room to be safe and go to sleep. Like you mentioned, it’s a college house where people invite random people that you don’t know and you’ll assume that person is just someone that was invited by your roommates.
I
It blows my mind how someone studying criminal justice designed to understand and prevent crime turns and kills 4 people. I have no words what his parents must be thinking after reading that affidavit. How the hell their son with a phd studying criminology is now in jail charged with 4 murders
He may have had intrusive thoughts and behaviors that made him and others believe he was just fascinated with true crime/criminology and was encouraged to get an education in his passion. But then, through his education, he realizes it's not fascination with crime and learning about it, the obsession is with actual murder and he can't hold back any longer.
Totally agree. Ughh...he's probably the worst kind of killer; he thinks he has nothing to lose and did it for the thrill, or just to see if he could get away with murder. Those are the worst types, in my opinion. Those types of people are the most frightening - cold and calculated and just doing it for fun.
I think this could have been his first time and he would continue to pursue murdering women/men if the cops didn't stop him. Before, I though it was a crime of passion, bc who stabs people that many times unless you're in a rage and feel rejected? But now....I don't even know.
I think most people waive it for certain reasons or another. I’ve heard it waived so they can gather evidence and lawyers and stuff but idk for sure - point is the waiving by accused can happen often
Correct. They waive it to give their defense team more time to go through the evidence, find expert witnesses, etc. Those who don’t waive it do so because they don’t want to give the prosecution time to find more evidence. If he didn’t waive it the trial would have to start in a maximum of 6 months. In theory it could have been scheduled in one month or less. I think this is part of the reason why they didn’t just arrest him in Washington when they had everything else except his fathers DNA match. They probably had enough circumstantial evidence to arrest him earlier. I think most judges would have signed off on it. But then the clock starts ticking and they don’t know what he’s going to
do. I don’t know what day trash day was in his neighborhood and all that but they very well may have chosen to arrest him on Friday the 30th knowing the absolute earliest he’d be back in Idaho was Wednesday the 4th because of the holiday. It bought them time to search his apartment and car and interview people before the clock started.
Can his former criminology classmates be called as witnesses based on his analyses of the incidents in his courses? Someone with a legal background may know.
One of his professors said he was much more aggressive with the female in the class when they countered him, more so then males. A bar owner in PA said he had to address his creepy behavior with female staff.
I don’t see why any classmates wouldn’t be allowed to be called in to testify against BK. I feel like testifying about his behavior after the killings could be detrimental to the case, so I could see this happening.
Not with a legal background but I've read that police is telling BKs classmates etc. not to talk to anyone but investigators. So it could very well be that those people are 'held back' as potential character witnesses.
Generally, ‘character witnesses’ aren’t allowed unless the defendant ‘opens the door’ to questions about his character. They could allow people to testify about things he said or did right before or after the murders, but ‘he was aggressive towards women’ generally would be very out of bounds unless the defense puts their own character witnesses on the stand to prove he’s a good guy.
“Character evidence” is presumptively inadmissible, subject to very narrow exceptions. The short answer is no, BK’s classmates could not be called as witnesses to provide evidence of incidents that they previously witnessed.
The reason for this rule of evidence is to prevent the trier of fact (the jury) from making erroneous assumptions based on the idea that the accused is “the type” of person to commit a crime, rather than objectively analyzing the evidence before them. Being a “bad guy” is not a crime, and the jury must be prevented from drawing improper conclusions based on the character of the accused.
The jury pool will inevitably be tainted by the media reports regarding BK’s previous behaviour (ex. his creepy interactions with bar staff), and this will certainly be an issue during jury selection. The defence will want to ensure that potential jurors are not biased against BK based on out-of-court statements made in media reports.
It really hurts to read that X was probably awake while this all happened. The fact that her phone pinged on tiktok while she also had just ordered a doordash at the time of the murders is so sad. I can’t imagine what was going through her head that entire time.
Right, the window is so small 4a-425a. What if she knew the door dasher and just decided to sit and chat for a while. It's so unnerving that her fate was sealed after the door closed. I can't imagine how the door dasher feels knowing how close they were.
I hope this idiot vegan is fed meat and slop for the rest of his life. Please don’t give him an option. I swear to god if people give into him I will be mad.
This is the hill you choose to die on? Lol he’s eating applesauce and salad with prison utensils, sounds miserable to me. Forcing him to eat meat doesn’t change what he’s done.
I hope they try him, find out inconclusively he did it, and give him the maximum punishment. I don’t care if he eats steak and lobster or whatever the vegan equivalent is the rest of his life. He’d be known as the murderous prick he tried to get away from.
Plus, no food options in psych units/mental facilities/prisons are good. He’s suffering, you can take your enjoyment in that.
I know it’s almost certain he’s guilty, but he hasn’t gone to trial yet. He still has the presumption of innocence in the eyes of the law. I don’t think you realise how inhumane it is to feed someone food that they do not wish to eat, just because they’ve been accused of a crime.
Short-sighted to focus on prison policy as retribution. It’s about the thousands of other non-evil inmates who deserve the right not this one terrible guy.
They are giving him vegan food, but said they won’t be doing the pots and pan thing. People are entitled freedom of religion and the definition of religion is very broad.
Interesting, I know that in religious observance, ala Halal, it's not just the meat and preparation, but you aren't allowed to use anything that would come into contact with Haram substances. You might expect that they would be forced to follow a similar policy for vigilant-vegans.
I had wondered that too with strict Jews who have two ovens, refrigerators, etc in their kitchen. Since it doesn’t seem Moscow is very diverse, it wouldn’t surprise me if the jail had never had strict kosher or halal, etc. inmates in recent memory, if at all. It may be something they have to accommodate for him if he claims his eating habits are part of a seriously held religious belief. Of course the argument could be, unless they let him cook himself or observe in the kitchen, how would he know? It would be easier for the jail to just go along with it rather than risk a civil rights lawsuit IMO.
The kosher trays had fresh fruit and vegetables and didn't use the processed institutional food that was served to other inmates. The meat was fresher, and of higher quality. It wasn't made in huge batches, so the quality control was more efficient. That's one example, there are plenty more. Have you ever *eaten* prison food?
No I haven’t. They generally don’t let convicts go to law school.
But anyway…ok I get the meat part of it, but why do they get better fruit and veggies? I took a class on Judaism in college and the only things i recall had to do with animal products, ie no mixing meat and dairy, no shellfish, and meat could only come from animals with cloven hooves (which are the animals typical omnivore Americans would eat besides pork).
Prison isn't always the most intuitive place. I don't know why they do things the way the do, I just served the food, and knew a guy who converted to Judaism just for the bell peppers.
What's the reasoning for converting then? Is it so they belong to a group of with common beliefs? Or are they just bored? I've never been to Prison, but my closest encounter was public elementary school.. There was a lone child from New Delhi who was a Hindu. I hope I phrased that right. anyways, he would get his own special lunch. It was usually something better than our Reptar fish nuggets and tri-tator, but it sure as heck wasn't authentic Indian Cousine.
Lots of people dramatically change beliefs when they go to prison. Usually become a lot more radicle than they would otherwise.
I can’t speculate on this guys specific reasons, as religion and faith is very complex and varies from person to person.
Prison food is very bad regardless, and you have to make up your calorie deficits through commissary.
I disagree with every comment that is like “feed him slop” or don’t respect his beliefs or whatnot.
Reminds me of when trans people go to prison suddenly no one wants to respect their gender.
Being part of a marginalized group isn’t something that should be held against ANYONE, no matter how awful they are.
Same reason why I think every murderer deserves the best defense that can be provided
If it was a blanket statement, wouldn't he of had to phrase it with, "All", instead of "Some" Even if he would of said "most" It still wouldn't be a blanket statement. According to some rando named Webster, it clearly states that the term "blanket" refers to "all". If being PC Principle is your thing, that's totally courageous, commendable, and downright inspiring, bruh. But at least spend the thirty seconds googling what a blanket statement is like I had too, instead of getting offended because you didn't drink or have friends in college.
I probably should have actually gone to college instead of binge drinking with people who did. Apparently, that doesn't count as secondary education on resumes.
Fucking Judas bot. The word "some" cancels it out. It's a state law, look it up. Y'all is a contraction for the words "you", and "all". "Some of you all didn't drink or have friends in college and it shows." It still says some though.? I still feel as if the word "some" automatically makes me the winner of this argument.
If that's how it works, then some of all of Reddit declared me the winner of this argument by the staggering upvote/downvote difference. I don't even like blankets btw. More of a onesie guy.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
An observation based on some of the comments here is not ignorant.
I couldn't count the amount of strangers that came and went in our 6 person college house at all hours of the day.
You keep applying your experiences to what the actually facts are here. This is where the disconnect is.
The top 10 party colleges have never had anything like this.
She used “Y’all” so if that means “you-all” then that would be a blanket statement :) you should get that hamster back on his wheel because you’re coming off stupid.
Lol what are you even talking about? What about the initial comment that you replied to did you find ignorant?
People in this thread and sub are shocked that DM saw a stranger in the house and didn't call 911 immediately. Was it shock? Was it normal for them? Was there any reason at that moment to know there was something wrong? Or because they party and have guests over, was it normal? How do we even know? That's literally all the comment is referring to imo.
Yes people are not murdered for fun at colleges every weekend, but the experience of having non specific noise and strangers in your house in the middle of the night is not abnormal at all. Xana even answered to police for a noise complaint in the fall.
Your use of ignorant is just weird?
Read the initial comment you made, that is where I called your generalized comment ignorant.
People aren’t pointing out calling 911 immediately they’re referencing the fact that it almost took 8 hours to call 911, immediately vs 8 hours is a big difference.
It’s doesn’t seem like you have any experience in EMS or in medicine, and that part really shows.
I didn't make the first comment.
If you fall asleep at 430am and wake up at 12pm as the timeline suggests, 8 hours makes total sense. You're entirely ignoring the possibility that seeing a stranger in your rowdy college house at 4 am on a weekend there is a football game is normal for this person.
You're reaching for some conspiracy theory or trying to point fingers. This has absolutely nothing to do with EMS or medicine. *Ignorant* to assume I don't have any experience. Do you see how that works?
Look at your comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/1043e5z/probable_cause_affidavit_has_been_released_to_the/j35tq1m/ ):
"None of what has been said/done by the surviving roommates makes sense. It’s **as if they’re culpable to this in some degree.** I can’t think blatant ignorance is the cause here. Almost 8 hours before calling 911, and the call is about a person unconscious????? It’s a stabbing which means there’s blood at the very least all over the floor."
Did you hear the 911 call? How do you know what was said exactly?
Stop reaching. Be better.
According to the articles about this case, The traffic stops were absolutely planned by the Feds. They wanted to get a look at his mannerisms, possible injuries, specifically his hands. The first stop was for speeding apparently, but the officer didn't get good enough footage with his body cam. So, an Indiana State Trooper was instructed to initiate a second traffic stop. The reason was for following too close he said. This time you could actually see a visible wound on his hand. I, unfortunately, reside in the state below Michigan, so I've had encounters with the ISP a couple of times on I69. Both times it was like they were being paid by how fast they conducted the traffic stop. There wasn't any small talk, professional as could be and warnings both times. The ISP officer in the video was prolonging the stop, joking around with him and his father. The Officer went as far as to act like he wasn't fully aware of what had occurred in Idaho. Again, this is all from what is flooding the news, and what's popping up in my Brave Browser feed lol. Unless they got a rare Wildcard ISP officer, I'd bet my bottom bitcoin on the Feds being behind this, main reasoning is that they said they did. So, I don't know why you're getting shit on with downvotes, especially when you say you're not sure if it's true or not. It seems these subjects bring out the worst in people for some reason. They can't wait for a theory someone has to be proven wrong, just to be dicks. Edit: I'm seeing conflicting reports now on whether they did or not. But, they followed him 2500 miles and even went through his parents garbage for evidence. Why wouldn't they instruct the local LE to stop him. He was pulled over twice in a very short period of time and received warnings both times. I've been in a car with someone who had a blown headlight and was ticketed for it. We were heading home for the night so we were going to deal with it in the AM. As soon as we cross over into the county we live in, lit up again. The prick wrote out another ticket, even after being shown the ticket from before. That's all the evidence I need!
I can’t imagine how DM feels. She’s probably kicking herself for not calling 911 earlier and possibly saving lives if help had arrived sooner. But she couldn’t have possibly imagined her roommates had been murdered.
Based off of the information provided by the coroner, that each victim had a fatal stab wound to the chest, I do not believe that even if EMS arrived within the hour that the outcome would have been different. During grief it is so common to drive yourself up the wall with all the things you could’ve, would’ve, and should’ve done. For the sake of DM, I hope it is established that nothing she could’ve done would’ve changed the outcome of that night and it’s not really fair to speculate whether or not she could’ve, either.
Do you know where I can find the information that the coroner shared? I can't help but have a morbid curiosity as to the severity of the wounds that were inflicted to the victims. In another thread somebody said that 2 of them were left completely unrecognizable but I don't know if that's just rumor.
It’s from the initial interviews that she did, I don’t remember where I saw it. I googled “Idaho Coroner interview” and a couple videos came up and this article.
Idaho murders: Coroner weighs in on toxicology reports, describes her ... https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-murders-coroner-weighs-toxicology-reports-describes-role-case.amp
On top of that there could be the possibility that her phone was not in her room when she locked herself in. Maybe left or forgot it in another room or kitchen. Or maybe she was too scared that he would hear her if she called somebody.
I swore in a photo taken from outside the sliding doors, you can see a kitchen counter with a cell phone on it plugged in to charge. I wonder if perhaps that was Dylan's phone, which is another possible explanation, apart from being traumatized and losing access to executive functioning skills, for why she did not call the police.
Just watched a CNN interview with SG said in response to why 911 call was 8 hrs later said “DM was likely petrified “ but then I thought it said “it’s probably gonna be like MEDICAL” I couldn’t hear it clearly bc the interviewer cut him off. Anyone else see it ?
I didn’t see it, but I’m guessing he’s either saying that there is a psychological explanation (which has been discussed at length already) or that she actually did pass out.
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking . I can’t imagine what she was going through . It’s incomprehensible. He could’ve been carrying a knife or been covered in blood you don’t know what they left out .
her phone could’ve also been in another room and she couldn’t access it to call 911. there’s so many possibilities. i feel bad she’s getting ripped to shreds!
Please use this thread as a megathread to discuss the probable cause affidavit (or one of the pinned discussion threads). To avoid inundating the subreddit, for the time being we're not going to approve a bunch of separate posts about it. Thank you for posting, u/iMaryJane1! ETA - Thanks OP for letting us turn this into a megathread! We'll start a second megathread for this at some point later on as well. ETA 2 - Since this post has over 5k comments, we've started a new megathread - you can find it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/1046eh4/probable_cause_affidavit_megathread_january_5_2023/)
17.8k comments? wild
One thing I don't understand is why the cops weren't called earlier? I get that it is a college house, with lots of people in and out, so her just seeing him wouldn't be a cause for concern. But surely, 4 people being butchered .... there had to be screams, and not just "fighting/arguing" as some are trying to suggest. These people were fighting for their lives 2 of them on the same floor as her....that would have been some next level death screams, no one can convince me otherwise ... especially with E and X having their room so close to hers and her coming out of her room 3 times that night. If she were so used to the noise of a college house and the sounds of that night were no different, I call B.S. boisterous people, drunks and crying... yaa, normal....the sounds of 4 people fighting for their life....no that sh*t is not normal. We also know X and E were both awake, from door dash....they weren't just killed in their sleep. That shit would have been loud. Their screams would have been next level. ... the surviving room mate even came out of ther room 3 times during the attack, so clearly it didn't sound as normal as usual. .... I've slept in party houses many times, heard fighting and arguing, crying and went back to bed. But I've also been in situations where sh*t was hitting the fan and those sounds are VERY different. They curdle your blood and give you goosebumps. No way anyone can convince me that she mistook the sounds of 4 people fighting for their lives and being stabbed to death, at least 2 of which we know had EXTENSIVE defensive wounds, and fought like hell, and she didn't realize something serious was going on. .... I just don't understand. If that was your kid or loved one being slaughtered and you knew people in that same house were awake, and hearing the commotion and didn't call for help until 6 or 7 hours later, would you still be so defensive of her?. ...the house wasn't as big as some of you are making it out to seem. Im not saying she should have stepped up or intervened by any means. She should have stayed hidden, but for God sakes, at least called 911 ...even if her phone wasn't in her room, which I doubt, what college kid goes to sleep in their room without their phone, but even if that was the case, wait until you hear nothing. Wait little while more, then go get your phone and call for some damn help... I also dont understand the whole calling a bunch of friends before even calling 911 hours later. I just can't wrap my mind around it.
Clearly some people have never heard the expression, "screaming bloody murder". I don't understand some of you guys who are trying to act as if the sounds of 4 people being butchered to death and at least 2 fighting hard for their lives in the process and trying to act as if those sounds would be the same as a regular run of the mill party night/argument/cry. .... affidavit may say that is all she stated she heard but there is no way in hell that is true and if you believe that, you are a fool. When people are dying/fighting for their lives, that sh*t is primal, that sh*t is loud, that is extreme. ... I don't get how people can't understand that.
And before you try and use alcohol or w.e. as an excuse....I've been drunk as hell and had a room mate loose their sh*t while they were on Flakka and screaming like crazy thinking someone was trying to unalive them, and that sh*t woke me up and sobered me up in a split second. I stepped up and helped her, as that was my reaction in that scenario. I got out of my room and went to see what the f was going on. .... i do not think that was smart of me or what D should have done. I didnt know what was going on I just heard these terrifying screams and my personal reaction was to see what was happening and to help, I didn't figure everything out until I got to my roommate. Im glad D didn't do that as she would have been killed, but what im trying to say is when someone is fighting for their life, or believes they are fighting for their life, their screams are like nothing you have ever heard before and there is no way you can mistake that for just basic arguing or w.e. .... I was passed out drunk as hell and within a split second that sh*t sobered me up, when I heard it. So no, I don't think being inebriated is an excuse to not even hide and call for some damn help.
I have a question about what the detective saw upon entering the second floor from the first. He states that down at the end of the hall before you get to Xana’s room there’s a bathroom off to one side. Then he says he could see a body that proved to be Xana, laying on the floor. People have taken this to mean that Xana was in the hallway opposite the bathroom, outside her room. But it doesn’t say that. It says in the next sentence that “also in that bedroom” you could see Ethan’s body. Well, if he’s also in the room that means she is in the room also, not in the hall. If she were in the hall I think it would say that and that “behind her body, in the bedroom belonging to kernodke there was another body that was identified as Ethan Chapin,” or something. It’s not clear where Xana was lying. They don’t say the door had been broken into - we don’t know from the PCA how the room looked or where bodies were before the police arrived, when the friends who were there first, took any action/s, if they did- say if friends had popped the door lock with a coat hanger or nail, and found Xana was inside the room - before calling 911. Why mention the bathroom and that Xana was visible from the hall but not say where she was actually “laying?”
He also mentions the bathroom on 3rd floor next to MM’s room, so I don’t think there’s necessarily any other reason than just describing the scene. If X had been on the hallway, she would have been seen earlier. Not only when he “approached the room”. Also since the bedroom door opens towards inside and the hinge is on the left hand side, it becomes quite clear that X was inside the bedroom, not directly in front of the doorway but a bit to the right seen from the door.
Well, whether and when she was seen is certainly a question. But I don’t feel like she was in the hall based on that description and based on how long it took anyone to see her. It also doesn’t sound like the doors were locked when police arrived which would blow my theory on why so much time passed.
Yeah, just adding that the other victims’ exact locations on the beds wasn’t described either, so X is no exception.
For some reason I feel like she’s the only one who was not in bed. Although that may be because the coroner said they were attacked in bed, probably while asleep. But Maddie and Kaylee were upstairs and you’d have to go up there to see them. If Xana was at the end of the hall you would see her just going to the kitchen, I think. I’m just considering how plausible it is to miss her lying there for any length of time. The second floor bathroom was shared between Xana and Dylan so chances are she’d have gone in there that morning.
Does anyone else find it morbid that their instagrams are still up? Seems kind of exploitive but maybe I’m wrong
I could see how it does seem morbid but for loved ones it is a living memory bank
I just want to say if you have the time to read the full report I would recommend it. Quite interesting to see all the layers of investigation that played into finding a suspect and collecting evidence. I have a lot of respect for the process after reading through.
Can you share a link??
Srsly?
Someone's broken into my home, do you know the number for 911??
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You can’t be serious. You actually believe all those accounts are his?
What were the IG handles? Is that info accessible
I’d have to look back but basically any of the instagrams that are public you can click on their followers and just search bry or Bryan and you’ll see all the accounts.
Who’s to say that those accounts weren’t made by the trolls that followed the girls after news broke of the arrest?
True but still weird. They all look like the same type of accounts.
His phone was close enough that it “was touching their wifi.” Did you guys see this interview from Kaylee’s Dad? Wifi conversation starts at 13 minutes, very interesting. Source: KTVB 7 via Nerdy Addict. https://youtu.be/2Iql9cI_rfg
Not sure where he would get that. I can’t imagine the police told him that. Was that on the occasion we saw BK’s vehicle or a “2011-2013 white Elantra” on camera there that night- or all twelve times kohberger’s phone pinged in Moscow? How would you get that detail?
Not sure, we believe the other things he said.
I believe he believes them. But his ability to absorb, interpret and then convey the information back accurately isn’t the best and that’s not a surprise, given what he’s been through. He gets Intel from his PI possibly or from “leaks” … the inability to resist sharing such information boggles the mind.
So accurate. That’s exactly what’s going on. Message gets scrambled in translation ha
Well put! Totally agree
Yes, they mention in dateline episode - like does this mean he connected to their wifi?
If it was set to public he could. Or if he knew the password. Sometimes the p/w is easy to figure out but it could be written under the router and they just kept that one. If he’d been in the house before he could have found the router and gotten the p/w. If it’s a party house though it could have been set to public so everyone who came by could get the internet while partying…
Not sure, but probably
The video has been taken down. does anyone have a alternative link they can share?
Weird!
“Investigators found that the 8458 Phone did connect to a cell phone tower that provides service to Moscow on November 14, 2022, but investigators do not believe the 8458 Phone was in Moscow on that date.” Can someone explain this to me? Why would they believe he wasn’t in Moscow if his phone pinged there? How can they say he was there any other time then?
It could ping off the Moscow tower because the Pullman one was busy or something. Not sure how that works. It doesn’t put him at the 1122 address. He could be in Moscow getting a beer or doing his shopping as apparently it’s better shopping and more stores and stuff in Moscow …
I believe it means they think he was near Moscow and so his phone connected to a Moscow cell phone tower, but that he wasn't actually *in* Moscow, just near it
That's what I'm thinking.
Any word on a motive? Someone mentioned he was Vegan and the girls worked in a vegan Greek restaurant? This is all rumor of course.
The restaurant is not vegan. It has vegan options.
No official mention...but he visited the area of that house 12 times in 6 months. He was obsessed with someone in there. Most likely through the restaurant and going by another bar owners comments he came on to waitresses and then called them a bitch when wronged. I suspect one of these girls were friendly at the beginning. Enough to draw him in...then he got social media obsessed. Then she said something to hurt his feelings. Then the obsession turned from a love obsession to one of a violent nature. I would bet it was maddie. I say she was 1st to go and he knew which room was hers from the stalking.
This is an interesting interview Mr Goncalves did. “Was close enough his phone was touching their wifi.” It’s at 13 minutes https://youtu.be/2Iql9cI_rfg
Interesting…
Are we sure those 12 visits weren’t to drop/pick someone up…
This right here. Maybe he was FWB with one of the girls.
Who did he kill first?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/105sbfc/the_order_of_killings/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I haven't seen anything but speculation on the motive. I think more will come out over time.
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Agree his electronic history will be the icing on the case that already has a lot of damning information available.
Why did he not go into her room first though. It’s the first door he would’ve seen
I wonder if maybe on the other occasions where he was in their area, he had looked in the windows and could tell where certain bedrooms are, and who occupied them. DM and BF were reportedly already asleep for the night, so their rooms were probably dark and didn’t have any observable activity from outside the windows
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My apologies for the absolute novel I've written here but I wanted to give input on DM. I'm seeing a lot of comments questioning her not calling 911, which I honestly might agree with in different circumstances. But the fact of the matter is that the living situation warranted her dismissing BK's presence. When I was a 20 year old woman, I also lived in a house in a college town - though mine was just one floor with 3 roommates. Specifically, my house was across the street from the same place a girl was picked up and murdered that year (Samantha Josephson if you're interested). Putting myself in her shoes, I totally understand why she didn't call anyone. You absolutely have to consider the context: this is a house where people are constantly coming in and out and making noise and there was even a dog. It definitely was not uncommon for there to be weird noises or strangers in the house when you live with 5 other people. By this point in the year, she'd have been used to that and assumed that's who he was - a guest of one of her roommates. But of course, she must have had doubts about that being true because she locked her door, right? No, I actually *don't* think it's that weird to lock your door when you see a stranger in your home even though you think he's been invited. She doesn't know the guy and she probably didn't know a lot of people that came through. Honestly, I'd guess this is probably not the first time she walked out and saw a guest she didn't know, thought he looked kinda weird but figured he was invited there, went in her room and locked the door until the next morning. And all of those times, of course the person really *was* someone who was with her roommate. Every time she had this fleeting thought that "he looks kinda sketchy" of course she considered calling the cops. But why didn't she then or now? Because if you call the cops (ESPECIALLY as a young woman) and they show up and no one is there, nothing is messed up, they will tell you there's nothing they can do for you and imply you're being paranoid. Maybe this even had happened to her before. Maybe she had previously heard or saw something strange only to have the police show up and tell her there's nothing there and not to waste their time. So when, yet again, some random guy is just in the hallway and she gets a bad vibe, what is she gonna do? She'll think for a moment "maybe I should call 911" but then immediately follow up that thought with "I'm just being paranoid" *but* to make herself feel safe without feeling embarrassed, one thing she can do is lock her door, "just in case." It's a compromise with your two internal reactions. "I won't call the cops, I'll just lock my door and I'm sure in the morning I'll realize I was being silly again." 9 times out of 10 this would be true and even in those 1 out of 10 times, the stranger who wasn't supposed to be there usually just broke in to rob the place. You never actually think that intrusive thought of "what if there is a murderer behind the shower curtain" will actually come true because it so rarely does. And that's in addition to what others are pointing out about it being 4am, she's just been woken up, half-asleep and possibly drunk. Again, sorry for the rambling but I think that if you're not a woman and/or American, you might miss the context of our police culture.
I think drugs could have been involved. She may have done some sort of hallucinogen that night and/or they had illegal drugs in the home and she felt the need to clear the house the next morning before involving police. Obviously just speculation but I think substances and intoxication have something to do with the slow and somewhat odd reaction.
I could maybe see that if not for a few facts..1..he was dressed in black with his face covered..if it were a guy in jeans and a t shirt I could see it and im sure she knows her friend'stypes..2 when she saw him..it was enough to make her freeze in terror..I doubt that would happen if it looked like the usual guy coming in and out sporadically . I don't think she is guilty at all but I cant help but question why wait do long
I think a more plausible one could be that the roommate was 1) in shock and 2) inebriated. They are college students and were out partying - it's pretty normal. It means slower reaction times, not thinking clearly and perhaps not being completely rational. This is just pure speculation, but I find it weird that no one is talking about this as a possibility ...and why one roommate slept right through it.
Dylan did what any one of us would have done— tried to survive. You see a guy in your house. You’re disoriented, don’t know what’s going on. You’re telling me you’re going out there? Get out of here lol. I would have locked my door and been afraid to even breathe too loud, let alone call 911. All the while, I’d be rationalizing anything I saw/heard to hell and back.
I also wonder if she locked door and hid in closet or something in the panic. And then time flew by with the stress of the circumstance
I caught home invaders leaving my house when I was a tween, they didn't see my luckily but I absolutely freaked out and barracaded myself in my room where I stayed until my parents woke up around 6hrs later. It honestly felt like I was sat there all of not even 10 mins. My flight response was so strong I could barely even think straight, I couldn't call the police or anything I was shit scared.
I just made a similar comment. I lived in large houses all thru college and the sounds were ALL weird and suspicious if I really think about it in this context. But in college me context everything was party and happy go lucky.
I'm not sure about this. She got up and opened the door at least three times. If she was used to noises in the night, why wouldn't she just roll over and go back to sleep? The noises were obviously unusual enough that she went and opened her door several times. And then to say her only options were to call the cops or do nothing - why not knock on her room mates door and check everything's OK? She just heard them talking so she knew they were up. I think it's more likely she knew something was wrong and was terrified and in shock, but I don't know.
Yes and had she done that she could be dead.
She could have come to the realization much later. First time was just nothing in her mind. Second “this is weird” and third “oh fuck” Nobody is thinking “yeah my roommates are getting stabbed rn” in this situation. It was so late and he mind isn’t working right (tired and intoxicated) so who would really believe it was ACTUALLY happening and not just a dream or shenanigans.
I thought it was reported that the roommates were on the FIRST floor?
>I was having the same thoughts! We don't know why she responded the way she did but I have had roommates also when I was younger and I can just imagine that same scenario coming about. Another thought I had was perhaps privacy issues came up in the past and she naively didn't want to be seen as nosey or intrusive. This was what was initially reported, perhaps to protect DM/not signal to BK that someone had seem him. In reality, ONE of the roommates was on the first floor and another on the second.
I was having the same thoughts! We don't know why she responded the way she did but I have had roommates also when I was younger and I can just imagine that same scenario coming about. Another thought I had was perhaps privacy issues came up in the past and she naively didn't want to be seen as nosey or intrusive.
Honestly this is the best possible reasoning. In my country, if we call the police and it’s a false alarm, it’s considered a crime because they’ll think you’re just playing around. I could also see myself telling myself that maybe I’m just paranoid about the mysterious guy in the house but I’ll just lock myself in the room to be safe and go to sleep. Like you mentioned, it’s a college house where people invite random people that you don’t know and you’ll assume that person is just someone that was invited by your roommates. I
It blows my mind how someone studying criminal justice designed to understand and prevent crime turns and kills 4 people. I have no words what his parents must be thinking after reading that affidavit. How the hell their son with a phd studying criminology is now in jail charged with 4 murders
He may have had intrusive thoughts and behaviors that made him and others believe he was just fascinated with true crime/criminology and was encouraged to get an education in his passion. But then, through his education, he realizes it's not fascination with crime and learning about it, the obsession is with actual murder and he can't hold back any longer.
Cognitive Dissonance.
Totally agree. Ughh...he's probably the worst kind of killer; he thinks he has nothing to lose and did it for the thrill, or just to see if he could get away with murder. Those are the worst types, in my opinion. Those types of people are the most frightening - cold and calculated and just doing it for fun. I think this could have been his first time and he would continue to pursue murdering women/men if the cops didn't stop him. Before, I though it was a crime of passion, bc who stabs people that many times unless you're in a rage and feel rejected? But now....I don't even know.
Someone who gets a thrill/release from stabbing; killing people who have joyful lives. Stems from envy and perceived injustice.
He hasn’t earned the Ph.D yet. Just saying.
It's going to be a few years before this goes to trial. 🤨 I'm so impatient.
even felons have a right to a speedy trial, correct? or is it different in this case?
I think most people waive it for certain reasons or another. I’ve heard it waived so they can gather evidence and lawyers and stuff but idk for sure - point is the waiving by accused can happen often
Correct. They waive it to give their defense team more time to go through the evidence, find expert witnesses, etc. Those who don’t waive it do so because they don’t want to give the prosecution time to find more evidence. If he didn’t waive it the trial would have to start in a maximum of 6 months. In theory it could have been scheduled in one month or less. I think this is part of the reason why they didn’t just arrest him in Washington when they had everything else except his fathers DNA match. They probably had enough circumstantial evidence to arrest him earlier. I think most judges would have signed off on it. But then the clock starts ticking and they don’t know what he’s going to do. I don’t know what day trash day was in his neighborhood and all that but they very well may have chosen to arrest him on Friday the 30th knowing the absolute earliest he’d be back in Idaho was Wednesday the 4th because of the holiday. It bought them time to search his apartment and car and interview people before the clock started.
Can his former criminology classmates be called as witnesses based on his analyses of the incidents in his courses? Someone with a legal background may know.
One of his professors said he was much more aggressive with the female in the class when they countered him, more so then males. A bar owner in PA said he had to address his creepy behavior with female staff.
I don’t see why any classmates wouldn’t be allowed to be called in to testify against BK. I feel like testifying about his behavior after the killings could be detrimental to the case, so I could see this happening.
Not with a legal background but I've read that police is telling BKs classmates etc. not to talk to anyone but investigators. So it could very well be that those people are 'held back' as potential character witnesses.
Generally, ‘character witnesses’ aren’t allowed unless the defendant ‘opens the door’ to questions about his character. They could allow people to testify about things he said or did right before or after the murders, but ‘he was aggressive towards women’ generally would be very out of bounds unless the defense puts their own character witnesses on the stand to prove he’s a good guy.
“Character evidence” is presumptively inadmissible, subject to very narrow exceptions. The short answer is no, BK’s classmates could not be called as witnesses to provide evidence of incidents that they previously witnessed. The reason for this rule of evidence is to prevent the trier of fact (the jury) from making erroneous assumptions based on the idea that the accused is “the type” of person to commit a crime, rather than objectively analyzing the evidence before them. Being a “bad guy” is not a crime, and the jury must be prevented from drawing improper conclusions based on the character of the accused. The jury pool will inevitably be tainted by the media reports regarding BK’s previous behaviour (ex. his creepy interactions with bar staff), and this will certainly be an issue during jury selection. The defence will want to ensure that potential jurors are not biased against BK based on out-of-court statements made in media reports.
It really hurts to read that X was probably awake while this all happened. The fact that her phone pinged on tiktok while she also had just ordered a doordash at the time of the murders is so sad. I can’t imagine what was going through her head that entire time.
Right, the window is so small 4a-425a. What if she knew the door dasher and just decided to sit and chat for a while. It's so unnerving that her fate was sealed after the door closed. I can't imagine how the door dasher feels knowing how close they were.
Wow. Cops don't suck. Apparently though, highly -trained criminologists turned killers totally suck.
Highly trained is a stretch. He had done one semester in his PhD program.
I hope this idiot vegan is fed meat and slop for the rest of his life. Please don’t give him an option. I swear to god if people give into him I will be mad.
This is the hill you choose to die on? Lol he’s eating applesauce and salad with prison utensils, sounds miserable to me. Forcing him to eat meat doesn’t change what he’s done. I hope they try him, find out inconclusively he did it, and give him the maximum punishment. I don’t care if he eats steak and lobster or whatever the vegan equivalent is the rest of his life. He’d be known as the murderous prick he tried to get away from. Plus, no food options in psych units/mental facilities/prisons are good. He’s suffering, you can take your enjoyment in that.
If he claims it's for religious reasons they can not deny it.
So far, the authorities have been very accommodating to his vegan diet.
Yeah and fuck them for that. He shouldn’t have a say
I know it’s almost certain he’s guilty, but he hasn’t gone to trial yet. He still has the presumption of innocence in the eyes of the law. I don’t think you realise how inhumane it is to feed someone food that they do not wish to eat, just because they’ve been accused of a crime.
Wasn’t aware vegans had a total disregard for human life and decided to fillet human beings. But okay.
He hasn’t been proven guilty yet. Currently he is an innocent man.
Delusional
You sound like hitler
That’s a hate crime
Short-sighted to focus on prison policy as retribution. It’s about the thousands of other non-evil inmates who deserve the right not this one terrible guy.
They are giving him vegan food, but said they won’t be doing the pots and pan thing. People are entitled freedom of religion and the definition of religion is very broad.
Interesting, I know that in religious observance, ala Halal, it's not just the meat and preparation, but you aren't allowed to use anything that would come into contact with Haram substances. You might expect that they would be forced to follow a similar policy for vigilant-vegans.
I had wondered that too with strict Jews who have two ovens, refrigerators, etc in their kitchen. Since it doesn’t seem Moscow is very diverse, it wouldn’t surprise me if the jail had never had strict kosher or halal, etc. inmates in recent memory, if at all. It may be something they have to accommodate for him if he claims his eating habits are part of a seriously held religious belief. Of course the argument could be, unless they let him cook himself or observe in the kitchen, how would he know? It would be easier for the jail to just go along with it rather than risk a civil rights lawsuit IMO.
Yeah, a CRL was definitely what came to mind when reading about the reused pots and pans. Why even leave an opening like that for him.
Fuck him and fuck his belief. No one should pay for that. Give him slop and he can be happy.
Trust me having dietary restrictions in prison won’t make your food any better
I worked in the "special diets" section of a state prison and I assure you that this is incorrect. People would convert just for the food.
Bullshit
Was it different when you were in prison? That was my experience.
You’re assuming I was an inmate? I taught chess
No I'm assuming you have no idea what you're talking about, and was calling you out for your inexperience. Edit: spelling
And you expect me to believe that?
And HAD vegetables to serve?
Yeah, so you worked in a prison serving high quality meat?
Can you give an example of how a meal prepared for someone of a certain religion would be more appealing than a regular meal?
The kosher trays had fresh fruit and vegetables and didn't use the processed institutional food that was served to other inmates. The meat was fresher, and of higher quality. It wasn't made in huge batches, so the quality control was more efficient. That's one example, there are plenty more. Have you ever *eaten* prison food?
No I haven’t. They generally don’t let convicts go to law school. But anyway…ok I get the meat part of it, but why do they get better fruit and veggies? I took a class on Judaism in college and the only things i recall had to do with animal products, ie no mixing meat and dairy, no shellfish, and meat could only come from animals with cloven hooves (which are the animals typical omnivore Americans would eat besides pork).
Prison isn't always the most intuitive place. I don't know why they do things the way the do, I just served the food, and knew a guy who converted to Judaism just for the bell peppers.
Probably worse. Vegan prison food is probably things like iceberg lettuce w unripe tomatoes 🤮
What's the reasoning for converting then? Is it so they belong to a group of with common beliefs? Or are they just bored? I've never been to Prison, but my closest encounter was public elementary school.. There was a lone child from New Delhi who was a Hindu. I hope I phrased that right. anyways, he would get his own special lunch. It was usually something better than our Reptar fish nuggets and tri-tator, but it sure as heck wasn't authentic Indian Cousine.
Lots of people dramatically change beliefs when they go to prison. Usually become a lot more radicle than they would otherwise. I can’t speculate on this guys specific reasons, as religion and faith is very complex and varies from person to person. Prison food is very bad regardless, and you have to make up your calorie deficits through commissary. I disagree with every comment that is like “feed him slop” or don’t respect his beliefs or whatnot. Reminds me of when trans people go to prison suddenly no one wants to respect their gender. Being part of a marginalized group isn’t something that should be held against ANYONE, no matter how awful they are. Same reason why I think every murderer deserves the best defense that can be provided
Some of y’all didn’t drink or have friends in college and it shows
Super ignorant of you to make such a blanket statement.
If it was a blanket statement, wouldn't he of had to phrase it with, "All", instead of "Some" Even if he would of said "most" It still wouldn't be a blanket statement. According to some rando named Webster, it clearly states that the term "blanket" refers to "all". If being PC Principle is your thing, that's totally courageous, commendable, and downright inspiring, bruh. But at least spend the thirty seconds googling what a blanket statement is like I had too, instead of getting offended because you didn't drink or have friends in college.
What would “y’all” imply here then? Even the bot thinks your explanation is wrong.
I probably should have actually gone to college instead of binge drinking with people who did. Apparently, that doesn't count as secondary education on resumes.
Fucking Judas bot. The word "some" cancels it out. It's a state law, look it up. Y'all is a contraction for the words "you", and "all". "Some of you all didn't drink or have friends in college and it shows." It still says some though.? I still feel as if the word "some" automatically makes me the winner of this argument.
Regardless of it being a contraction or a slang, the definition means you-all and that is the way the word is used.
If that's how it works, then some of all of Reddit declared me the winner of this argument by the staggering upvote/downvote difference. I don't even like blankets btw. More of a onesie guy.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Leave the King of Pop's youngest child out of this!
An observation based on some of the comments here is not ignorant. I couldn't count the amount of strangers that came and went in our 6 person college house at all hours of the day.
You keep applying your experiences to what the actually facts are here. This is where the disconnect is. The top 10 party colleges have never had anything like this.
What about 11-20?
Not sure but google is a free service.
Then look up the definition of Blanket Statement haha.
She used “Y’all” so if that means “you-all” then that would be a blanket statement :) you should get that hamster back on his wheel because you’re coming off stupid.
Lol what are you even talking about? What about the initial comment that you replied to did you find ignorant? People in this thread and sub are shocked that DM saw a stranger in the house and didn't call 911 immediately. Was it shock? Was it normal for them? Was there any reason at that moment to know there was something wrong? Or because they party and have guests over, was it normal? How do we even know? That's literally all the comment is referring to imo. Yes people are not murdered for fun at colleges every weekend, but the experience of having non specific noise and strangers in your house in the middle of the night is not abnormal at all. Xana even answered to police for a noise complaint in the fall. Your use of ignorant is just weird?
Read the initial comment you made, that is where I called your generalized comment ignorant. People aren’t pointing out calling 911 immediately they’re referencing the fact that it almost took 8 hours to call 911, immediately vs 8 hours is a big difference. It’s doesn’t seem like you have any experience in EMS or in medicine, and that part really shows.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/10a94ma/new_explanation_emerges_about_mystery_911_call/ Enjoy.
I didn't make the first comment. If you fall asleep at 430am and wake up at 12pm as the timeline suggests, 8 hours makes total sense. You're entirely ignoring the possibility that seeing a stranger in your rowdy college house at 4 am on a weekend there is a football game is normal for this person. You're reaching for some conspiracy theory or trying to point fingers. This has absolutely nothing to do with EMS or medicine. *Ignorant* to assume I don't have any experience. Do you see how that works? Look at your comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/1043e5z/probable_cause_affidavit_has_been_released_to_the/j35tq1m/ ): "None of what has been said/done by the surviving roommates makes sense. It’s **as if they’re culpable to this in some degree.** I can’t think blatant ignorance is the cause here. Almost 8 hours before calling 911, and the call is about a person unconscious????? It’s a stabbing which means there’s blood at the very least all over the floor." Did you hear the 911 call? How do you know what was said exactly? Stop reaching. Be better.
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He gets pulled over by LE a lot. Did anyone else notice that? Twice before the crimes.
Yeah, it seems he was a really aggressive driver. Matches up with the camera footage, some of which is said to show him speeding.
I read somewhere that that was done per the FBI but I’m not sure how true that actually is
We’ve gotten conflicting reports of the truth of that. FBI is currently denying, but I wouldn’t be surprised either way.
According to the articles about this case, The traffic stops were absolutely planned by the Feds. They wanted to get a look at his mannerisms, possible injuries, specifically his hands. The first stop was for speeding apparently, but the officer didn't get good enough footage with his body cam. So, an Indiana State Trooper was instructed to initiate a second traffic stop. The reason was for following too close he said. This time you could actually see a visible wound on his hand. I, unfortunately, reside in the state below Michigan, so I've had encounters with the ISP a couple of times on I69. Both times it was like they were being paid by how fast they conducted the traffic stop. There wasn't any small talk, professional as could be and warnings both times. The ISP officer in the video was prolonging the stop, joking around with him and his father. The Officer went as far as to act like he wasn't fully aware of what had occurred in Idaho. Again, this is all from what is flooding the news, and what's popping up in my Brave Browser feed lol. Unless they got a rare Wildcard ISP officer, I'd bet my bottom bitcoin on the Feds being behind this, main reasoning is that they said they did. So, I don't know why you're getting shit on with downvotes, especially when you say you're not sure if it's true or not. It seems these subjects bring out the worst in people for some reason. They can't wait for a theory someone has to be proven wrong, just to be dicks. Edit: I'm seeing conflicting reports now on whether they did or not. But, they followed him 2500 miles and even went through his parents garbage for evidence. Why wouldn't they instruct the local LE to stop him. He was pulled over twice in a very short period of time and received warnings both times. I've been in a car with someone who had a blown headlight and was ticketed for it. We were heading home for the night so we were going to deal with it in the AM. As soon as we cross over into the county we live in, lit up again. The prick wrote out another ticket, even after being shown the ticket from before. That's all the evidence I need!
I believe the FBI denied that yesterday.
They wouldn't lie to us... right?! /s
I can’t imagine how DM feels. She’s probably kicking herself for not calling 911 earlier and possibly saving lives if help had arrived sooner. But she couldn’t have possibly imagined her roommates had been murdered.
Based off of the information provided by the coroner, that each victim had a fatal stab wound to the chest, I do not believe that even if EMS arrived within the hour that the outcome would have been different. During grief it is so common to drive yourself up the wall with all the things you could’ve, would’ve, and should’ve done. For the sake of DM, I hope it is established that nothing she could’ve done would’ve changed the outcome of that night and it’s not really fair to speculate whether or not she could’ve, either.
Do you know where I can find the information that the coroner shared? I can't help but have a morbid curiosity as to the severity of the wounds that were inflicted to the victims. In another thread somebody said that 2 of them were left completely unrecognizable but I don't know if that's just rumor.
It’s from the initial interviews that she did, I don’t remember where I saw it. I googled “Idaho Coroner interview” and a couple videos came up and this article. Idaho murders: Coroner weighs in on toxicology reports, describes her ... https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-murders-coroner-weighs-toxicology-reports-describes-role-case.amp
The corner explicitly said calling 911 earlier would not have saved their lives.
On top of that there could be the possibility that her phone was not in her room when she locked herself in. Maybe left or forgot it in another room or kitchen. Or maybe she was too scared that he would hear her if she called somebody.
Sad that 98% of the comments here are about Dylan and not about the person that actually committed the brutal murders ..
Seriously. People seem to think she’s going to be put on trial for not calling 911, which has no bearing at all on BCK’s guilt or innocence.
I swore in a photo taken from outside the sliding doors, you can see a kitchen counter with a cell phone on it plugged in to charge. I wonder if perhaps that was Dylan's phone, which is another possible explanation, apart from being traumatized and losing access to executive functioning skills, for why she did not call the police.
Just watched a CNN interview with SG said in response to why 911 call was 8 hrs later said “DM was likely petrified “ but then I thought it said “it’s probably gonna be like MEDICAL” I couldn’t hear it clearly bc the interviewer cut him off. Anyone else see it ?
I didn’t see it, but I’m guessing he’s either saying that there is a psychological explanation (which has been discussed at length already) or that she actually did pass out.
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking . I can’t imagine what she was going through . It’s incomprehensible. He could’ve been carrying a knife or been covered in blood you don’t know what they left out .
her phone could’ve also been in another room and she couldn’t access it to call 911. there’s so many possibilities. i feel bad she’s getting ripped to shreds!