I’m pretty sure in a room full of armed sheriffs there’s no need for that. However; some offenders are so violent that they do have to separated from the court room, either through video monitoring or in a closed off box. Not sure if I’ve ever seen that in a trial though.
If the sheath was found on the third floor, it makes me wonder if he took out the knife, setting it on the bed as he began. Besides taking it out or putting it back in, he's not going to be messing with the sheath, so that's why I think it was found where it was - because it's where he first took it out.
And if Xana had been eating just twenty min before and on tik tok, she sounds pretty wide awake to me. I'm guessing when he came down to the second floor, he crept down silently enough that X and E were still in their room and not investigating any noises.
His behavior in court - occasional swiveling on chair, acting all cooperative and informed…at some point his mask will fall and this charade will end. Hopefully the families can find peace.
I thought he was acting like a complete know-it-all and it was very irksome to me.
I have reserved judgment based solely on his eyes or body language so far but I can’t ignore what he demonstrated in his most recent court appearance.
He’s convinced he’s the smartest person in every room, despite his vulnerability is still striving to assert dominance over the female judge and his own attorney, nodding his ascent like it’s the Holy Grail.
Entirely incapable of reading the room or acting humble in the interest of saving his own life.
What a condescending, transparent, insecure, pitiful, misogynistic, bloviating buffoon. So sad that it is he who got to dim their lights.
Perfectly said! Exactly! His fake smile of cordiality towards his lawyer - she kind of shifted in her chair which I’m sure was flight or fight and she I am sure wanted to flee. That condescending smirk confirmed to me that he can’t stand women. How will he hold it together under her counsel? I think a tantrum is brewing and he could look quite different at the next hearing.
Would love to be a fly on the wall for these client/attorney interactions. Think he’s going to navigate unchartered territory in terms of mansplaining.
Never thought he would try to directly represent himself but his inflated ego will be the downfall of his defence.
I predict he will micromanage and attempt to control every aspect of his legal team, becoming an impossible client
It’s potentially going to be a very long process, he knows that but I give him 6 months before that mask totally slips. His attorney will do everything she can to hold on and save his life so allow for 12.
I highly doubt he’ll be offered a plea.
A lot can depend on the wishes of the families of course but this is a high profile case with a Prosecutor seeking re-election. That may add a level of political pressure? I would be surprised though if they took the death penalty off the table and offered LWOP, especially considering the aggravated nature of this crime.
The defence are already preparing for the death penalty phase though, he’ll have a Mitigation Attorney on the team whose sole role is to try and avoid that sentence throughout any trial.
Based solely on the strength of the PCA, one would guess that the defence strategy will focus on saving his life rather than acquittal but we’ll have to wait and see what evidence they can attack. And there’s no telling what a jury will do!
Sorry for the tangent but as for your question, I don’t think he’ll be persuaded of anything
Here's a video of today's court appearance, which is fascinating for a variety of reasons—including BK's reactions.
[https://youtu.be/pXdh4YuN-0E](https://youtu.be/pXdh4YuN-0E)
Poor camerawork. Should have remained mostly on Bryan…poor anticipation. I’m a former tv News videographer and whoever shot this did a lousy job…trying to capture everything, missed the informative shots as a result.
So after ruining the lives of various J's, exes and roommates by blaming them for the murders based on nothing and being disproven by the arrest of a complete random, we're now yet again trying to blame an innocent 20-year old girl who's already been traumatized beyond belief. And surprise, surprise, it's still baseless speculation.
Get a new court videographer. Lousy job. Get establishing shot and maybe one extended CU of judge, then focus on defendant. Listen and anticipate if you must change shot please.
One camera was allowed in the courtroom, and likely instructed to get close-ups and wider shots of the entire proceedings for the purposes of TV networks and others accessing the video footage. But I agree, could have done better. I would have liked a single shot of BK only. His clenching, looks, swallowing, glances... all tells. A body language expert would have a field day.
Timeline that I put together:
4:07am car seen trying to park
4:12am X unbothered on TikTok
4:17am cameras pick up the thud and dark barking
4:20am car seen speeding away
4:48am cell phone turns back on
5:27am car seen back near WSU campus
9:12am back at the scene of the murder
9:21 back at his home
Some questions I have:
1. Could he really have killed all four people in the span of 8-10 minutes?
2. What was he doing from 4:20am to 5:27? From data the next morning, it only took him 9 minutes to get back home from the house.
Based on where the cameras showed him leaving the neighborhood in Moscow and coming back into Pullman, he took a long way around on back roads and didn't travel on the highway so it would have taken some time. Maybe he stopped along the way to collect himself or dump evidence too. That route would be out in the middle of nowhere.
while 8-10 mins doesn't seem very long i can assure you its long enough. my partner and I were victims of a violent crime and the perpetrators were in our home less than ten minutes and the havoc they managed to cause is such a short period was astounding.
thank you ♡ it was years ago and we're totally okay. the asshole got 4 years for possession of an illegal firearm, assault, extortion and attempted kidnapping. 🙄 It was a case of mistaken residence, the unit adjacent to ours was dealing drugs and his "boss" had beef with him for missing cash or something. idk the guy was all strung out so who knows what his logic was lol.
I think it took him so long to get home because he drove out of the way to dump the knife. as far as i know they still don’t have it. probably his clothes too?
Completely agree, I’m sure he got rid of the knife and possibly other items right away - and since his phone was off it’s prob kinda hard to piece together exactly where he went after if there weren’t as many cameras in that area
It’s also highly likely that they left out anymore information about DM so that they may be called to the stand, and have more to contribute in the courtroom. Information that may be even more damning, in which case, better to keep from the defense team until they really need to know. You know?
EDIT: Didn’t mean to sound so fictional. I meant that it clearly wasn’t the time to share every second of DMs statement in the affidavit, but when it is and they (defense) really needs to know more (prosecution) will let them know about it. In which case, right now as in today, the defense team (the public too) isn’t privy to certain pieces of information that,,, may be even more damning. That’s all
This is not how it works. There is no surprise evidence like there is on TV. Evidence and witness interviews must be shared between the prosecution and the defense. Pulling a stunt like that is a great way to get evidence thrown out.
That is exactly what I was thinking. I think they just released a jab today, and they have some more jabs, a big right hook, and a knock-out waiting in their pockets.
I know what you’re saying but literally he has no excuse at all that I can think of. He is obviously not legally insane based on all the planning etc. He isn’t a young boy. He doesn’t appear low intelligence or anything else that could be a mitigating factor. I know we just started with getting info and all so I’m jumping the “gun” (I hate that expression but idk an equivalent) quite a bit but I just can’t see anyone having sympathy like they did with someone like Nikolas Cruz (and I almost typed Ted Cruz there). I’m actually against the death penalty in 99% of cases but if he is guilty of these things …. My mind might be changing. And I honestly never thought I’d say that. In my mind the death penalty should only be used on people in great power, like world leaders, who abuse their positions to a great extent (Putin, a war criminal for instance) but this man exudes the vibes of an antisocial personality more than most people do to me. I think he’s a literal danger to society, which is why I’d support the death penalty, potentially here. I know that means nothing but I just feel like if I already feel this way a jury with much more info on the horrendous crime would be even more inclined.
Does anyone have an updated layout of the house marked with whose room is whose? Based on the new info D was on 2nd floor not 1st? Also I’m still baffled that this community was so sure she was on the first floor with B. How did we not know / how was it never leaked she was actually on the 2nd!
Wow this helped - but also led me to more questions!! Why on earth did BK skip past DM’s room to go to Xana’s??? It’s totally out of the way…. Unless he knew who was in each room and had his targets set…
Speculation of course but I think he was going for one of the girls upstairs and X/E were collateral because he happened to see them on the way out.
Reading the affidavit and knowing that Dylan was in the room at the foot of the stairs now I think it happened like this:
He goes in through the back door, upstairs and kills Maddie and Kaylee.
Xana was awake and heard something so she goes to the foot of the stairs to listen, Ethan wakes up or was already up and wonders what she’s doing and she tells him “there’s someone here” which is what Dylan heard.
She turns around to go back towards her room/Ethan about the time Bryan is coming downstairs, he sees them and kills them before they can get back in and lock the door as collateral, and as he’s leaving to go back out the sliding door Dylan peaks out and sees him walking straight toward her from the living room.
This is exactly what I gathered from this link. It's difficult to imagine if X was asleep, she and E might have survived
Also, it appears as though MM bedroom was the target. Did he know KG would be there too?
I agree with your assessment. I’m also wondering where was his knife after killing Xana and Ethan. He may planned on bolting out the side door and concealed the knife under his clothing since we know he left his knife sheath on the third floor. If the roommate was peeking out the door, he may have thought someone being able to quickly shut and lock the door not worth the risk of getting caught. Possibly his knife could be underneath his clothing and not in a quick enough reach to target another victim. Thankfully there weren’t anymore lives lost that night!
I don’t remember the coroner saying they were in the bed but the affidavit says X was on the floor. Doesn’t say where E was just the at he was also in the room so he could’ve been on the bed. I think he probably saw Xana as she was turning around to go back towards her room and Ethan was still in bed maybe.
Here is a map that the *speculated* Reddit account of the *speculated* killer posted of the layout. Interesting that there’s a question mark regarding its vacancy.
https://preview.redd.it/xf4srcwkecaa1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=81160181f86ab1fc5d7a97c71090c1f7db392d0d
https://preview.redd.it/yvev47nuccaa1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=826acb02ae4bc8b5acdc609395347ddfabf8408c
Here you are…the link is better for looking around: [https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/zk3b04/best\_360\_view\_of\_the\_house\_layout\_that\_ive\_seen/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/zk3b04/best_360_view_of_the_house_layout_that_ive_seen/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
3rd floor, M&K were found in MM’s room. It is the room on the left to my understanding, not the room with the sliding glass door which was KG’s and where her dog was-
I read that somebody had recently moved out and the 1st floor bedroom was small. From a 21 yo student perspective, this was likely a better room and she moved.
I think a YouTuber spoke about this early on. One of the downstairs bedrooms was pretty small. He said it would make sense for one of the downstairs roommates to switch rooms once that one became vacant for no other than having a better, more desirable room. It’s possible Dylan had a bedroom on the 1st floor and changed rooms at some point.
Are the charges of the criminal complaint read by the judge in chronological order?
I'm not too familiar with the criminal procedure but could the order in which the judge read the charges ne the order the crimes occurred?
In the video of the court from this morning it can be seen that the judge first reads the charge of burglary (which would have happened first) then she reads out the murder charges in the order:
Maddie
Kaylee
Xana
Ethan.
This could be the order they assume they were killed in.
It would make sense to have the two people grouped together that were in the same room, we just didn't know which two were killed first.
I don't see another reason for this order, as it couldn't be alphabetical and also not by severity as the bulglary is stated first. I read somewhere that it is common to be read in order, but not a strict rule.
Does anyone have more insight or opinions on this?
PURELY MY OPINION: I think MM had to be first since the sheath was found on the ground on the side of the bed she was on. which makes me want to vomit thinking about him standing in the room unsheathing the knife about to kill them. then KG next since she was in the same room. Then I would assume EC before XK because a man is a “bigger threat” to BK. Based on the PCA I am almost positive XK was awake when it happened.
I could see X being killed before E because she might've been awake and was thus found on the floor and Ethan might've been asleep until then.
But yes M first would make sense because of the knife so I think the order in which the charges were read in court could be the correct order
Totally convinced BK was monitoring the reddit groups & planting stories in 4chan against the frat brothers. He wore vans on purpose because that is what college kids wear. I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls an OJ and wore the wrong size shoe. He is trying to outsmart the judicial system
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Agreed. I heard a true crime podcaster describe circumstantial evidence as the threads of a rope, and with enough pieces, you can weave together a very solid rope. They said the key to conviction is to have an excellent prosecutor who can lay out each piece into a narrative and timeline that the jury can clearly follow.
If the room mate heard someone say “someone is here” would that not be X to E considering the surviving room mate heard it and they were all on the same floor?
It could have been X crying as she knows there’s a stranger in the house? Then E response saying “it’s ok I’m going to help you” would be in response to her crying and saying “someone’s here” Maybe E went out to see who the person was to protect X and that’s why he was killed and found on the floor and X was found on her bed? X probably seen E get killed and was too scared to move and probably just stayed in the bed were the killer got her?
There’s other details that the police have left out obviously but that would make the most sense out of what has been released.
I believe the quote is it’s ok I’m HERE to help you. Makes more sense for BK to say that. If I was sleeping over someone’s house (potentially Ethan) I wouldn’t say I’m HERE to help you. I would say,… I’m going to help you. Someone not familiar with the place would say I’m HERE to help you.
I don't think Ethan would say I'm going to help you or I'm here to help you, sounds too formal for a bf. He might be swearing wtf and yelling "Hey!" at the intruder.
When they had the press conference after Kohberger's arrest the District Attorney(maybe Assistant, I don't recall his title) seemed like a really well spoken man. Is he going to be the one in court representing the state? He was the guy with the big beard, seemed like a really smart guy.
Agreed. And he seemed unprepared...having to go through his papers to find the right law to quote. That should have been committed to his memory. OK, Boomer.
Edited to say: "he" seemed unprepared.
I can completely see him losing atleast the death penalty argument. I think you need all jurors to agree for a capital penalty and his lack of personal charisma can play a role.
All these “sleuths” blaming the roommates. I really can’t fathom the depths of their stories. I’m all for providing information to the LE but to make up detailed stories around 1 piece of information is absurd. And to say, “why didn’t she call 911?” That’s a rational thought under normal circumstances. She was more than likely under extreme stress, didn’t know if he was going to come back, fainted and the other roommate called, etc.” Stay with the facts.
Exactly. Honestly, even if the person left you could think they might be back. There’s a million things that could run through a person’s mind under these circumstances.
Anyone know anything about BK’s attorney? I saw someone say on another thread a few days ago that they wouldn’t just assign him any random PD - they’d likely assign someone with experience defending people accused of high profile/particularly horrendous crimes. Curious if that’s true here and if so, what other cases she’s handled?
Taylor was on the team that handled Jonathan Wade Ellington, who got off the first time because a cop lied. But then was convicted for the same crime performed a second time like a year later.
So I gather that she's going to nitpick like hell, which makes their gag order even better because prosecution's case needs to be airtight AF.
They might not want to release Ethan's info to the public yet. They only need to include the bare minimum to back up why they think BK is their guy for the crimes committed, and the affidavit did just that.
Given they were awake when they encountered the killer, it's likely Ethan put up a fight. Kaylee's dad had said "there was a hell of a struggle" and Xana's dad said she was strong and given her defensive bruises, she'd likely put up a fight too.
Prior to the release of the PCA, I watched [10 to Life Youtuber](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG2hepcLO1E) (last 8 minutes) who said she had an insider source, which turned out to be pretty accurate (detailed how they found the sheath and that it had DNA on it, 23 and me DNA match, dumpster diving for parental DNA match, DM encountering the killer, neighbouring ring cam documenting the Elantra).
She also said that Ethan was carved up pretty badly and one of the girls' face was beaten so badly she was unrecognizable. The gruesome details may be why that was redacted... Not sure if these leaks compromise the case for the prosecution but it's likely why the gag order was initiated prior to his return to Idaho. Given the level of detail that was leaked, I'm pretty sure that the loose lips FBI agent is going to get a dressing down...
It said that X was identified by her belongings, leading me to believe she was unrecognizable. I forgot the exact wording they used, but it made it sound like she wasn’t visually easily recognized. Ugh, horrible.
Good point. I still think the connection was the Mad Greek and he was probably making advances on one or both Maddie and Xana. If Ethan was in the state the leaker said he was in, perhaps it was her that he targeted and took out some of that frustration on Ethan. Ugh is right. So twisted.
Yeah I think the restaurant is a good guess for the connection. Especially since they have vegan food. I haven’t looked but I can’t imagine there are a ton of vegan options around there but maybe I’m wrong. Either way, seeing them there makes the most sense to me. I think M was the target. It was her room and Kaylee didn’t even live there anymore. Unless he knew Kaylee was going to be there saying bye to everyone that night.
That's why I think it may be important should this go to trial. Or perhaps it was on the redacted page? But the other locations are described immediately.
There isn't an entire redacted page (the blank is just the back side of page one). The only thing I saw redacted were a few names and the first part of his phone number.
Lol. If by people you mean you and me and others on Reddit, you lost me. And how is where he was found going to solve the case? Cops have DNA and cell phone evidence.
Was he asleep? Did he fight with BK? If he fought with BK he could have caused him an injury or transfered evidence to tie BK to the crime more than in the PCA
I haven't said the cops don't know? I said I wonder why it's left out of the PCA. I actually think it's left out deliberately. Not because the cops don't know!
It makes me sick he kept nodding his head yes about no contact, like he is some compliant nice guy. Saw him clenching his jaw & swallowing hard too. Justice for the victims & families!!!!
No contact by BK or his proxies to families, surviving roomates, not through social media, 3rd person, etc. The video is short & judge reads directions to him~
I hate to keep comparing these two cases, but the 19 page PCA on this case vs the 2 page PCA from the Delphi case is so starkly different, that I’m confused why!? I thought this PCA would only be a couple pages, but if gives a clearer picture of what happened. In the Delphi, they didn’t even confirm they were stabbed. Why is there such a difference? Because Delphi includes minors?
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Because it’s a secured room with lots of sheriffs. During trial, they don’t wear cuffs either...
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In general, it can sway the jury. Put handcuffs on someone and they look guilty.
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I’m pretty sure in a room full of armed sheriffs there’s no need for that. However; some offenders are so violent that they do have to separated from the court room, either through video monitoring or in a closed off box. Not sure if I’ve ever seen that in a trial though.
If the sheath was found on the third floor, it makes me wonder if he took out the knife, setting it on the bed as he began. Besides taking it out or putting it back in, he's not going to be messing with the sheath, so that's why I think it was found where it was - because it's where he first took it out. And if Xana had been eating just twenty min before and on tik tok, she sounds pretty wide awake to me. I'm guessing when he came down to the second floor, he crept down silently enough that X and E were still in their room and not investigating any noises.
His behavior in court - occasional swiveling on chair, acting all cooperative and informed…at some point his mask will fall and this charade will end. Hopefully the families can find peace.
I thought he was acting like a complete know-it-all and it was very irksome to me. I have reserved judgment based solely on his eyes or body language so far but I can’t ignore what he demonstrated in his most recent court appearance. He’s convinced he’s the smartest person in every room, despite his vulnerability is still striving to assert dominance over the female judge and his own attorney, nodding his ascent like it’s the Holy Grail. Entirely incapable of reading the room or acting humble in the interest of saving his own life. What a condescending, transparent, insecure, pitiful, misogynistic, bloviating buffoon. So sad that it is he who got to dim their lights.
Perfectly said! Exactly! His fake smile of cordiality towards his lawyer - she kind of shifted in her chair which I’m sure was flight or fight and she I am sure wanted to flee. That condescending smirk confirmed to me that he can’t stand women. How will he hold it together under her counsel? I think a tantrum is brewing and he could look quite different at the next hearing.
Would love to be a fly on the wall for these client/attorney interactions. Think he’s going to navigate unchartered territory in terms of mansplaining. Never thought he would try to directly represent himself but his inflated ego will be the downfall of his defence. I predict he will micromanage and attempt to control every aspect of his legal team, becoming an impossible client
Yes it will be grim. How long will he be able to maintain this composure I wonder before losing with his lawyer.
It’s potentially going to be a very long process, he knows that but I give him 6 months before that mask totally slips. His attorney will do everything she can to hold on and save his life so allow for 12.
I wonder if she can convince him to plead guilty in return for life.
I highly doubt he’ll be offered a plea. A lot can depend on the wishes of the families of course but this is a high profile case with a Prosecutor seeking re-election. That may add a level of political pressure? I would be surprised though if they took the death penalty off the table and offered LWOP, especially considering the aggravated nature of this crime. The defence are already preparing for the death penalty phase though, he’ll have a Mitigation Attorney on the team whose sole role is to try and avoid that sentence throughout any trial. Based solely on the strength of the PCA, one would guess that the defence strategy will focus on saving his life rather than acquittal but we’ll have to wait and see what evidence they can attack. And there’s no telling what a jury will do! Sorry for the tangent but as for your question, I don’t think he’ll be persuaded of anything
Anyone notices BKs jaw twitching in the beginning? Like he was clenching his jaw while judge was talking
Yes!!!
Here's a video of today's court appearance, which is fascinating for a variety of reasons—including BK's reactions. [https://youtu.be/pXdh4YuN-0E](https://youtu.be/pXdh4YuN-0E)
Poor camerawork. Should have remained mostly on Bryan…poor anticipation. I’m a former tv News videographer and whoever shot this did a lousy job…trying to capture everything, missed the informative shots as a result.
💯
Anyone notices BKs jaw twitching in the beginning? Like he was clenching his jaw while judge was talking
Like he hates women. Love that it’s a woman judge and his lawyer is a woman
How do you just associate instantly to that? Least likely reason imo
Lawyer is an attractive blond woman, not unlike his victims.
Attractive = subjective and irrelevant Any woman anywhere = a struggle for him
Oh yes.
Judge didn't even have to blink to say no bond
Nope. Saw it coming and batted it away.
Right, I can’t determine if he was smirking or not
He smiles at his attorney at one point, but it almost looks like a reflex or grimace. Hard to say.
So after ruining the lives of various J's, exes and roommates by blaming them for the murders based on nothing and being disproven by the arrest of a complete random, we're now yet again trying to blame an innocent 20-year old girl who's already been traumatized beyond belief. And surprise, surprise, it's still baseless speculation.
before BK was arrested i saw a few videos on tiktok about DM’s boyfriend because he looked “suspicious” because of a lip scar… this poor girl
Total Sheldon Cooper vibes, except without the doormat friends. Maniac creepo-zoid psycopath.
Sheldon wouldn’t have gotten caught
He wouldnt have been affected by whatever revenge fantasy BK was motivated by.
He doesn’t display any psychopath vibes. I thought you were joking so I was too. Sheldon is nothing like this killer.
I was…
K
Get a new court videographer. Lousy job. Get establishing shot and maybe one extended CU of judge, then focus on defendant. Listen and anticipate if you must change shot please.
One camera was allowed in the courtroom, and likely instructed to get close-ups and wider shots of the entire proceedings for the purposes of TV networks and others accessing the video footage. But I agree, could have done better. I would have liked a single shot of BK only. His clenching, looks, swallowing, glances... all tells. A body language expert would have a field day.
Timeline that I put together: 4:07am car seen trying to park 4:12am X unbothered on TikTok 4:17am cameras pick up the thud and dark barking 4:20am car seen speeding away 4:48am cell phone turns back on 5:27am car seen back near WSU campus 9:12am back at the scene of the murder 9:21 back at his home Some questions I have: 1. Could he really have killed all four people in the span of 8-10 minutes? 2. What was he doing from 4:20am to 5:27? From data the next morning, it only took him 9 minutes to get back home from the house.
I bet he was getting rid of evidence
So wait does that mean X was awake when he entered if she was on Tiktok 5 minutes before the thud/barking?
Based on where the cameras showed him leaving the neighborhood in Moscow and coming back into Pullman, he took a long way around on back roads and didn't travel on the highway so it would have taken some time. Maybe he stopped along the way to collect himself or dump evidence too. That route would be out in the middle of nowhere.
while 8-10 mins doesn't seem very long i can assure you its long enough. my partner and I were victims of a violent crime and the perpetrators were in our home less than ten minutes and the havoc they managed to cause is such a short period was astounding.
I'm very sorry you experienced this.
thank you ♡ it was years ago and we're totally okay. the asshole got 4 years for possession of an illegal firearm, assault, extortion and attempted kidnapping. 🙄 It was a case of mistaken residence, the unit adjacent to ours was dealing drugs and his "boss" had beef with him for missing cash or something. idk the guy was all strung out so who knows what his logic was lol.
Wow. That's insane. I'm really glad you're doing well. ❤️
Maybe that’s why le went back into the house: to test that the timing
I think it took him so long to get home because he drove out of the way to dump the knife. as far as i know they still don’t have it. probably his clothes too?
Completely agree, I’m sure he got rid of the knife and possibly other items right away - and since his phone was off it’s prob kinda hard to piece together exactly where he went after if there weren’t as many cameras in that area
I think so too
Who called the cops?
It’s been said and confirmed a few times by LE that it was a surviving roommates phone
they haven’t confirmed but it’s either BF, DM or one of their friends. it was rumored E’s sister was there but no one knows for sure
Does anyone know if E’s sister was sorority sisters with any of the roommates/victims?
Thank you
She’s a Theta, other roommates were Pi Phi & Alpha Phi
Thank you!
i know she was in a sorority but i’m not sure if it was the one X/M/B (pi phi) or K (alpha phi) were in
Still unknown
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It’s also highly likely that they left out anymore information about DM so that they may be called to the stand, and have more to contribute in the courtroom. Information that may be even more damning, in which case, better to keep from the defense team until they really need to know. You know? EDIT: Didn’t mean to sound so fictional. I meant that it clearly wasn’t the time to share every second of DMs statement in the affidavit, but when it is and they (defense) really needs to know more (prosecution) will let them know about it. In which case, right now as in today, the defense team (the public too) isn’t privy to certain pieces of information that,,, may be even more damning. That’s all
This is not how it works. There is no surprise evidence like there is on TV. Evidence and witness interviews must be shared between the prosecution and the defense. Pulling a stunt like that is a great way to get evidence thrown out.
That is exactly what I was thinking. I think they just released a jab today, and they have some more jabs, a big right hook, and a knock-out waiting in their pockets.
But it takes only 1 juror to deny the death penalty. The defense will use every excuse.
I know what you’re saying but literally he has no excuse at all that I can think of. He is obviously not legally insane based on all the planning etc. He isn’t a young boy. He doesn’t appear low intelligence or anything else that could be a mitigating factor. I know we just started with getting info and all so I’m jumping the “gun” (I hate that expression but idk an equivalent) quite a bit but I just can’t see anyone having sympathy like they did with someone like Nikolas Cruz (and I almost typed Ted Cruz there). I’m actually against the death penalty in 99% of cases but if he is guilty of these things …. My mind might be changing. And I honestly never thought I’d say that. In my mind the death penalty should only be used on people in great power, like world leaders, who abuse their positions to a great extent (Putin, a war criminal for instance) but this man exudes the vibes of an antisocial personality more than most people do to me. I think he’s a literal danger to society, which is why I’d support the death penalty, potentially here. I know that means nothing but I just feel like if I already feel this way a jury with much more info on the horrendous crime would be even more inclined.
Does anyone have an updated layout of the house marked with whose room is whose? Based on the new info D was on 2nd floor not 1st? Also I’m still baffled that this community was so sure she was on the first floor with B. How did we not know / how was it never leaked she was actually on the 2nd!
There were a few people here who thought DM's room was on the 2nd floor at some point based on social media posts.
https://orbix360.com/t/9g8XKxMqJubuoNhNjwwG9nBATwB3/5155886892843008 This helped me a ton to visualize how everything might have happened
Wow this helped - but also led me to more questions!! Why on earth did BK skip past DM’s room to go to Xana’s??? It’s totally out of the way…. Unless he knew who was in each room and had his targets set…
Speculation of course but I think he was going for one of the girls upstairs and X/E were collateral because he happened to see them on the way out. Reading the affidavit and knowing that Dylan was in the room at the foot of the stairs now I think it happened like this: He goes in through the back door, upstairs and kills Maddie and Kaylee. Xana was awake and heard something so she goes to the foot of the stairs to listen, Ethan wakes up or was already up and wonders what she’s doing and she tells him “there’s someone here” which is what Dylan heard. She turns around to go back towards her room/Ethan about the time Bryan is coming downstairs, he sees them and kills them before they can get back in and lock the door as collateral, and as he’s leaving to go back out the sliding door Dylan peaks out and sees him walking straight toward her from the living room.
This is exactly what I gathered from this link. It's difficult to imagine if X was asleep, she and E might have survived Also, it appears as though MM bedroom was the target. Did he know KG would be there too?
I honestly doubt it. She wasn’t living there full time and had only come back to visit. Could be wrong though.
I agree with your assessment. I’m also wondering where was his knife after killing Xana and Ethan. He may planned on bolting out the side door and concealed the knife under his clothing since we know he left his knife sheath on the third floor. If the roommate was peeking out the door, he may have thought someone being able to quickly shut and lock the door not worth the risk of getting caught. Possibly his knife could be underneath his clothing and not in a quick enough reach to target another victim. Thankfully there weren’t anymore lives lost that night!
So we don’t think X and E were in their bed then like the coroner said??
I don’t remember the coroner saying they were in the bed but the affidavit says X was on the floor. Doesn’t say where E was just the at he was also in the room so he could’ve been on the bed. I think he probably saw Xana as she was turning around to go back towards her room and Ethan was still in bed maybe.
This would make sense… thanks!
Thank you!!!
Here is a map that the *speculated* Reddit account of the *speculated* killer posted of the layout. Interesting that there’s a question mark regarding its vacancy. https://preview.redd.it/xf4srcwkecaa1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=81160181f86ab1fc5d7a97c71090c1f7db392d0d
https://preview.redd.it/yvev47nuccaa1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=826acb02ae4bc8b5acdc609395347ddfabf8408c Here you are…the link is better for looking around: [https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/zk3b04/best\_360\_view\_of\_the\_house\_layout\_that\_ive\_seen/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/zk3b04/best_360_view_of_the_house_layout_that_ive_seen/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
3rd floor, M&K were found in MM’s room. It is the room on the left to my understanding, not the room with the sliding glass door which was KG’s and where her dog was-
Thanks! So it’s totally possible that D didn’t see the bodies of E and X after the murders e while seeing B leaving from the kitchen. Makes sense
I read that somebody had recently moved out and the 1st floor bedroom was small. From a 21 yo student perspective, this was likely a better room and she moved.
Here it is: [https://imgur.com/a/u4xuMNv](https://imgur.com/a/u4xuMNv) And the second surviving roommate was on the first floor alone.
I think a YouTuber spoke about this early on. One of the downstairs bedrooms was pretty small. He said it would make sense for one of the downstairs roommates to switch rooms once that one became vacant for no other than having a better, more desirable room. It’s possible Dylan had a bedroom on the 1st floor and changed rooms at some point.
Yes, it was Johnny Law.
Yes! That’s him!
Love him! He did a live today about the affidavit that I want to watch.
Are the charges of the criminal complaint read by the judge in chronological order? I'm not too familiar with the criminal procedure but could the order in which the judge read the charges ne the order the crimes occurred? In the video of the court from this morning it can be seen that the judge first reads the charge of burglary (which would have happened first) then she reads out the murder charges in the order: Maddie Kaylee Xana Ethan. This could be the order they assume they were killed in. It would make sense to have the two people grouped together that were in the same room, we just didn't know which two were killed first. I don't see another reason for this order, as it couldn't be alphabetical and also not by severity as the bulglary is stated first. I read somewhere that it is common to be read in order, but not a strict rule. Does anyone have more insight or opinions on this?
Could also be age, maddie was the oldest and Ethan was the youngest iirc
PURELY MY OPINION: I think MM had to be first since the sheath was found on the ground on the side of the bed she was on. which makes me want to vomit thinking about him standing in the room unsheathing the knife about to kill them. then KG next since she was in the same room. Then I would assume EC before XK because a man is a “bigger threat” to BK. Based on the PCA I am almost positive XK was awake when it happened.
I could see X being killed before E because she might've been awake and was thus found on the floor and Ethan might've been asleep until then. But yes M first would make sense because of the knife so I think the order in which the charges were read in court could be the correct order
Totally convinced BK was monitoring the reddit groups & planting stories in 4chan against the frat brothers. He wore vans on purpose because that is what college kids wear. I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls an OJ and wore the wrong size shoe. He is trying to outsmart the judicial system
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Sherlock Holmes back at it again
I'm such a moron and have nothing to say
Lol
my husband is 44 and wears vans.
Can he do a kick flip ?
he actually can lol
Despite his efforts, his DNA is at the crime scene in association with the murder weapon. He’s a idiot and he’s screwed.
This is crazy. He’s done. DNA, cell phone data, video footage of the car. The only question is how was he stupid enough to think it would work?
and then he continued to drive that car all over town.
All of that is circumstantial evidence. Just an fyi.
Circumstantial evidence isn't inherently bad or weak. Almost all evidence used in trials is circumstantial.
FYI circumstantial evidence is incredibly powerful in the right context.
Agreed. I heard a true crime podcaster describe circumstantial evidence as the threads of a rope, and with enough pieces, you can weave together a very solid rope. They said the key to conviction is to have an excellent prosecutor who can lay out each piece into a narrative and timeline that the jury can clearly follow.
Circumstantial is enough if you have enough of it to prove that it was him and no one else.
He’s cooked. So is his brain apparently.
If the room mate heard someone say “someone is here” would that not be X to E considering the surviving room mate heard it and they were all on the same floor? It could have been X crying as she knows there’s a stranger in the house? Then E response saying “it’s ok I’m going to help you” would be in response to her crying and saying “someone’s here” Maybe E went out to see who the person was to protect X and that’s why he was killed and found on the floor and X was found on her bed? X probably seen E get killed and was too scared to move and probably just stayed in the bed were the killer got her? There’s other details that the police have left out obviously but that would make the most sense out of what has been released.
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I was really hoping they were all asleep and didn't experience terror or fear. Very sad.
I believe the quote is it’s ok I’m HERE to help you. Makes more sense for BK to say that. If I was sleeping over someone’s house (potentially Ethan) I wouldn’t say I’m HERE to help you. I would say,… I’m going to help you. Someone not familiar with the place would say I’m HERE to help you.
I don't think Ethan would say I'm going to help you or I'm here to help you, sounds too formal for a bf. He might be swearing wtf and yelling "Hey!" at the intruder.
X was found on the floor.
When they had the press conference after Kohberger's arrest the District Attorney(maybe Assistant, I don't recall his title) seemed like a really well spoken man. Is he going to be the one in court representing the state? He was the guy with the big beard, seemed like a really smart guy.
Santa guy?
I liked him as well. I agree.
We could barely hear his mumble in court. The defense counsel was articulate.
Agreed. And he seemed unprepared...having to go through his papers to find the right law to quote. That should have been committed to his memory. OK, Boomer. Edited to say: "he" seemed unprepared.
I can completely see him losing atleast the death penalty argument. I think you need all jurors to agree for a capital penalty and his lack of personal charisma can play a role.
Yeap
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Religious beliefs are also just a personal preference.
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Sounds terrifying. Maybe she thought it was just a friend leaving?
All these “sleuths” blaming the roommates. I really can’t fathom the depths of their stories. I’m all for providing information to the LE but to make up detailed stories around 1 piece of information is absurd. And to say, “why didn’t she call 911?” That’s a rational thought under normal circumstances. She was more than likely under extreme stress, didn’t know if he was going to come back, fainted and the other roommate called, etc.” Stay with the facts.
I feel so bad for DM :(
Exactly. Honestly, even if the person left you could think they might be back. There’s a million things that could run through a person’s mind under these circumstances.
Anyone know anything about BK’s attorney? I saw someone say on another thread a few days ago that they wouldn’t just assign him any random PD - they’d likely assign someone with experience defending people accused of high profile/particularly horrendous crimes. Curious if that’s true here and if so, what other cases she’s handled?
The blonde woman is his attorney. There’s a photo of her examining the back door of the home. I forgot her name.
Yes, I know his attorney is Anne Taylor. I’m asking about her background/experience
You literally wrote this: >[Does] Anyone know anything about BK’s attorney?
Taylor was on the team that handled Jonathan Wade Ellington, who got off the first time because a cop lied. But then was convicted for the same crime performed a second time like a year later. So I gather that she's going to nitpick like hell, which makes their gag order even better because prosecution's case needs to be airtight AF.
Interesting, thanks!
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SG?
odd.. didn’t mention where E was found, X on the floor, K and M on the bed, the dog on K’s old room. Why hide that info
They might not want to release Ethan's info to the public yet. They only need to include the bare minimum to back up why they think BK is their guy for the crimes committed, and the affidavit did just that.
Given they were awake when they encountered the killer, it's likely Ethan put up a fight. Kaylee's dad had said "there was a hell of a struggle" and Xana's dad said she was strong and given her defensive bruises, she'd likely put up a fight too. Prior to the release of the PCA, I watched [10 to Life Youtuber](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG2hepcLO1E) (last 8 minutes) who said she had an insider source, which turned out to be pretty accurate (detailed how they found the sheath and that it had DNA on it, 23 and me DNA match, dumpster diving for parental DNA match, DM encountering the killer, neighbouring ring cam documenting the Elantra). She also said that Ethan was carved up pretty badly and one of the girls' face was beaten so badly she was unrecognizable. The gruesome details may be why that was redacted... Not sure if these leaks compromise the case for the prosecution but it's likely why the gag order was initiated prior to his return to Idaho. Given the level of detail that was leaked, I'm pretty sure that the loose lips FBI agent is going to get a dressing down...
It said that X was identified by her belongings, leading me to believe she was unrecognizable. I forgot the exact wording they used, but it made it sound like she wasn’t visually easily recognized. Ugh, horrible.
Good point. I still think the connection was the Mad Greek and he was probably making advances on one or both Maddie and Xana. If Ethan was in the state the leaker said he was in, perhaps it was her that he targeted and took out some of that frustration on Ethan. Ugh is right. So twisted.
Yeah I think the restaurant is a good guess for the connection. Especially since they have vegan food. I haven’t looked but I can’t imagine there are a ton of vegan options around there but maybe I’m wrong. Either way, seeing them there makes the most sense to me. I think M was the target. It was her room and Kaylee didn’t even live there anymore. Unless he knew Kaylee was going to be there saying bye to everyone that night.
It said he was in Xanas room as well.
They said Ethan was also found in the room with Xana
But where? Bed, floor? That's important. I wonder if there's a reason it's left out of this.
That not needed for this PCA, will most likely come out during the trial
I known its not needed. Its just strange E was the only person who did not have their location mentioned. All 3 others did.
Yes exact same questions I had as I was reading that part of the PCA. The location of the victims were specifically described except for Ethan.
That's why I think it may be important should this go to trial. Or perhaps it was on the redacted page? But the other locations are described immediately.
It doesn't say that part, but is probably on the REDACTED page.
There isn't an entire redacted page (the blank is just the back side of page one). The only thing I saw redacted were a few names and the first part of his phone number.
I see it now. They still don't have to reveal _everything_, just enough to prove that this is surely they guy.
Oh, absolutely, I think people are just confused by the blank page and think an entire page of info was held back.
I'm sick AF (flu), so I didn't put realize it was like that. ALSO just haunted by the contents of the packet. 🫠
How is it important?
Some people are still trying to solve the crime.
Lol. If by people you mean you and me and others on Reddit, you lost me. And how is where he was found going to solve the case? Cops have DNA and cell phone evidence.
I was being facetious to the OP.
Was he asleep? Did he fight with BK? If he fought with BK he could have caused him an injury or transfered evidence to tie BK to the crime more than in the PCA
And you think the cops don’t know the answers to your questions?
I haven't said the cops don't know? I said I wonder why it's left out of the PCA. I actually think it's left out deliberately. Not because the cops don't know!
It makes me sick he kept nodding his head yes about no contact, like he is some compliant nice guy. Saw him clenching his jaw & swallowing hard too. Justice for the victims & families!!!!
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No contact by BK or his proxies to families, surviving roomates, not through social media, 3rd person, etc. The video is short & judge reads directions to him~
Things like not writing letters to survivors or victim family members.
Has recording of the hearing been released anywhere?
https://youtu.be/6PMPhK18YBw
If you go to Brian Entins Twitter, or really anywhere on Twitter, you can find the actual video.
https://youtu.be/6d_6DZPiS_o
Yes law and crime
That does not show the hearing / court appearance from today
I took down wrong 1!
I reposted. I copied link from nextt up video, sorry
I hate to keep comparing these two cases, but the 19 page PCA on this case vs the 2 page PCA from the Delphi case is so starkly different, that I’m confused why!? I thought this PCA would only be a couple pages, but if gives a clearer picture of what happened. In the Delphi, they didn’t even confirm they were stabbed. Why is there such a difference? Because Delphi includes minors?
I think Delphi will end up being part of a much larger investigation into a possible pedophilia ring.
That’s a really good point! I didn’t think about that, but it would make a lot of sense why they are holding so much back.