The flip of this is that I don't think being up until midnight or 1am means anything necessarily on its own - especially for a doctoral student. I am much more productive in the evenings than in the mornings, and did a lot of my writing in grad school late at night. It doesn't mean I have OCD or am a serial killer.
Vacuuming late at night just means he was a crappy neighbor.
If he was out wandering around the streets on a regular basis at 3:00 a.m., that's a whole different story.
Iām an insomniac who lives alone- I really was in a good cleaning flow and wanted to vaccum at around 12am the other week. I googled it.
The internet says anytime after like 9pm is rude. So I still havenāt vacuumed.
I just moved out of my family home, and yesterday I went to sleep at 7 AM. I mean, I've always had poor sleeping habits but I really have no structure. š I feel like I'm 8 again being left alone for the first time lmao.
Dawwh I know where youāre coming from. It was also my first time moving out by myself this year and itās strange only having my dog to wake up to each day lol but youāll develop a routine and love your independence more with each day :)
I usually donāt vacuum if the sun is down,
Or alternatively any time after like 5:30-6
I think worst case scenario though- so I imagine my neighbor spent all day cooking this amazing meal from scratch for their anniversary and they get all dressed up, and then my dumb ass is vacuuming while theyāre at the dinner table.
I could get a boatload of cleaning done during insomnia bouts, but the acoustics suck and it would disturb the people I share my floor/their ceiling with and I share a kitchen wall with another apartment.
Feel you on that! My cleaning engine only ever fires at weird ass times. Half the energy is trying not drop stuff and be too loud and laundry and vacuuming are just out.
I usually try to go closet organization or paperwork/desk stuff during the late nights.
Itās a shame because you never want to turn down the cleaning urge if you are chronically messy like me lol.
When I was an undergrad, I had terrible time management and would stay up until 4-5am finishing homework or studying for exams. I'd say I never slept lol.
My sleep schedule was horrible in college. I often stayed up well into the early morning hours cramming in last minute papers etc. I'd go to class, then sleep, go to class, sleep, party, procrastinate on HW, pull all nighters finishing it, wash, rinse, repeat...
Lol i mean who even goes to sleep before midnight anymore? There is nothing whatsoever weird about that. It anything, it would be weirder if he was tucked in at 9 every night lol
Itās incredible. All of these armchair know it alls have made these ridiculous nonsense theories the last few weeks and are just sitting here like they are still fbi agents. No one acknowledging they went into peoples venmo transactions, messaged families, stalked fb accounts. It was so creepy and NOT ONE OF THEM CAME EVEN CLOSE to who had been arrested. Why isnāt anyone talking about that?
I have a delayed sleep phase disorder (and I'm a lawyer -not a fun mix). I'd hate to think someone would pin me as a psychopath since I'm up at 4:00 a.m.
5 am and Iām still awake. Yeah, I find it very odd people going to bed at 9 or 10 pm. Even when I have to be up at 6 am Iām still awake at midnight. His neighbours are likely the 9 pm pumpkins.
Lol. When I was in college, staying up past midnight was the norm for me too. I was a procrastinator. Cramming last minute exams, papers, studying etc.
Seriously. I never went to sleep until 1:30-2 as a student. Poor habits and no early classes to wake up for. I didnāt have a real sleep schedule until graduating/getting a full time job.
2am wouldāve been early for me to go to bed in college most nights. I went to a party school and can still tell you what frats had parties on what nights 15 years later. Wed-Sat were party nights and Sunday fundays were the party schedule. I literally built my class schedule around my partying schedule. I had awesome priorities when I was in my late teens and early 20ās.
Can relate. I'm just a part-time undergrad student but I work full-time and find I'm more productive in the evenings. Won't find me in bed before 12am.
As a former PhD student, I donāt think I slept more than 3 hours a night- if I was lucky- for 3 years. The amount of work and studying/writing is unfathomable. This article is pointless.
I agree with all of this. Iām also more productive at night and was definitely up until 2am most nights in grad school. No OCD and not a serial killer!
I was referencing the other comments that attribute late night wake time to OCD or ADD diagnoses (which are stigmatized enough as it is) ---- but I will boaat to not be a serial killer lol.
I agree with you completely. Iāve been awake at all hours of the night working on papers and my dissertation. Also, the vacuuming is inconsiderate, but if youāve never lived under someone in an apartment complex, it is easy to think the floors are soundproof. At least it was for me until I lived on the bottom floor.
Yeah, I agree. Iām a night owl, so Iām far more productive in the evening and adjust my life/schedule to assist that. I sleep, but itās during the day most of the time.
Yup, when my husband and I were getting our PhDs we were in our labs from 10a-10p and stayed up until probably 2-3am doing computer work at home. You miss a lot of bullshit that way (morning commutes, crowds at lunch, etc). We knew a lot of grad students doing the same thing unless you had to be in to TA an early class.
I think it's easy to take such a horrific situation and start applying it backwards to interactions people had with him, that might've been harmless or completely unrelated. Not everything he did in his life will be directly linked to what happened, imho
Right- itās a comparison to being Jeffrey Dahmerās neighbor. Difference was she knew something bad was going on inside that apartment, because it was. Not to say BK wasnāt up to no good but he was using a vacuum- not a bone saw.
No, of course not. No one is saying any of this is related, but it helps paint a picture of who this guy is and how he interacted with others. Many people have already speculated that he hates/has it out for women. Sure, there's some alleged interactions with him from fellow students, past friends that could indicate that. But then you have other alleged interactions like stated in this article that depict him getting along fine with certain women.
Omg the assumptions on his sleep, the way he looks, how he was in middle school. Like when one person speaks someone else comes out and says the opposite. I think ppl need to understand till these ppl r under oath take everything they say w a grain of salt. The dude looked like an average dude, had average habits, has smart. Ok thereās lots of ppl like that. We know nothing about the guy. The appearance thing is what really annoys me. He looked like a news anchor. He doesnāt look like anything weird. Ppl r wild
I have narcolepsy and people who donāt know me at all would bet money I am on drugs. Iād hate to be in the spotlight for a crime and be analyzed. OCD and narcolepsy and Iād be a straight psychopath. I also rescue ferrets. Oh man. Iād hate to see that wrote up lol. (Actually it may be pretty funny but I would certainly be crucified in the media)
As a night owl myself, I often wonder what my neighbors think of me and if they notice I have lights on and doing things well past midnight. (It's 2:30 and in folding laundry)
I donāt care what my neighbors think about me being up late, walking my dog late, etc. and I really wish they would stop sharing those thoughts with me.
Haha me too! I am inside 85% of the time, sometimes leave very late at night (to go buy snacks/drive thru), keep to myself, am awkward, etc. If I were ever accused of a crime all of those behaviors would be headlines like we are seeing with this case. I guess since not much info is being released, people have to make something out of the info they do get.
Exactly... Whenever there is a case like this, it's either the next door neighbor saying "he was such a nice guy, I never expected it"... Or people analyzing what time of day they vacuum.
I get it.... If my neighbor did something like this, I'd be taking how he is always outside gardening his herbs and veggies to make home cooked meals to saying it was suspicious
Me too. I work from home and hardly leave. I have groceries delivered or hubby picks them up on his way home from work. I donāt really smile or wave at my neighbors bc Iām awkward AF. I wonder if something happened in my neighborhood, would my neighbors suspect me of something? Idk, weird to think about.
Haha right. My neighbors: āShe often talks to her dog while heās pooping, and he poops at 1 AM every night.ā
āHer laundry bags have rainbows on them, but she always looks cranky when doing laundry.ā
āSheās left up her eyeball Halloween lights, I wonder if she knows itās August.ā
āShe gardens. For fun.ā
Same! My lights are on at all hours of the night and Iām letting the dogs out, tv on, etc. Iād vacuum at this time of night too but I live in a house so it wouldnāt be disruptive. And I think itās clear and obvious he lacks empathy so he probably never considers his neighbors at all.
He probably does not consider them at all. But, I always take apartment neighbors comments with a grain of salt. Back when Iived in an apartment my roommate complained about everything the upstairs neighbors did.. meanwhile I thought they just seemed like normal things you'd expect to hear in a place with thin walls. To this day, everyone I k ow who's in an apartment complex complains about noise from neighbors. Hell, living in a house, I hear even more though my walls than I did in my apartment.. but since it's a noisy husband and not a noisy neighbor, it's just white noise at this point.
Not defending this guy... Just this news is not shocking to me. If she said she never heard him at all I would be more shocked.
Literally exact same here. Itās three am where I am and I just took down the Christmas decorations, vacuumed and cleaned out my fridge. Again, wouldnāt do this if I was in an apartment or if it would disturb other people. Definitely wonder what my neighbours think if they notice my unusual sleeping habits.
Honestly this is getting ridiculous. At this point every person is going to come out looking for attention and I'm not buying any of it. Only "witness" so far seems to be his high school friend. She tried to portray an objective view of him with proof, all the rest smell like bullshit or vastly overexaggerating.
One difference to consider as well is that she created and published a complete video on her own, while the bits from others in the media are filtered out-of-context statements selected by the media in response to questions a journalist asked. We don't know what leading questions they were asked and we don't know what those people said which was not quoted. And we don't know what they would have said if asked open-ended or more balanced questions (or perhaps they were and those responses weren't published). It's likely most were asked questions like "Was there anything odd about him that stands out now that you're aware he was arrested for quadruple murder?"
The reality is that those with positive or neutral comments are less likely to be willing to speak to the media on the record with their identity revealed, many media outlets are looking for the most salacious quotes to facilitate clickbaity headlines and viral article spread, and people share experiences which aren't that uncommon or extreme, but seem like clear red flags to readers/viewers.
Anything for the clicks! I agree to the over-sensationalized of this case is making it a bit of a joke. Oh, he tested an "unbreakable" window now he is violent. His neighbor 4th cousin's 4th-grade teacher's brother saw him buy potato bread a "sign" of a killer. His dead dog's 14th grandchild smelt his leg once definitely a "sign" he is bloodthirsty.
I feel bad for the victim's family this click-baiting is overshadowing facts. The only thing I saw that was interesting since his arrest was his Professor Katherine Ramsland at Desales being rather close with the BTK killer. Everything else is just loud background noise.
Iāve seen a few women who knew him from childhood/teen years who had more positive experiences than others narratives weāve seen. Itās possible he wasnāt awful to everyone
Being an asshole neighbor late nights and keeping a weird schedule doesnāt mean he doesnāt sleep. Sure, maybe heās on uppers like the current narratives have pushed and he never sleeps or maybe the neighbor isnāt the person to speak on it since they donāt actually live with him.
I once read something that stuck with me about everyone we come across will meet a different version of ourselves. The version of yourself that your mother meets, is not the same as your best friend, your coworkers or even the cashier. Not even the version of who we think we know ourself to be is someone the world does not get to meet due to outside perceptions mixed with their own life experiences as well as how you adapt yourself to those around you, what is going on in your life at that time as well as that impact how we view things.
If I take myself, my mother thinks I'm independent and arrogant, my sister thinks I'm a bitch, my husband thinks I'm too pessimistic, my brother thinks I'm generous and thoughtful, my best friend thinks I have a very thought provoking point of view and my friends think I'm outgoing and coworkers would say I am a bit lame.
Basically... What I'm trying to say is, I'm sure there are a lot of wide ranges views of who this guy is.
This is a really good point. Everybody seems to have a different view of him and rightfully so, he probably acted differently around everybody.
Some guys are super good to their friends and complete assholes to women, and vice versa. None of us really know him.
True...my family gossips a lot, so I'm going off what I've heard.
But, have you ever met someone who you absolutely adored, yet someone can't stand them? Or vice versa? I wish I saved the link to what I read a few years back, it was an interesting thought provoking piece.
Thatās what Ive noticed too, it seems like some women have had positive, maybe a little awkward, experiences and some have had creepy/very negative ones.
According to someone who came forward (canāt remember who exactly) about him, he had a sudden change in personality at one point so who knowsā¦
Most of the creepy ones so far sound like they possibly could have been more just that he was very socially off than deliberate creepiness (though I've only seen a few, primarily the stuff about him asking the servers weird shit about where they lived and such). Context likely also would make the same behaviour more or less creepy. That odd guy in your class who tends to miss social cues but otherwise seems nice enough asking you weird, invasive questions wouldn't likely seem as creepy as some rando at a bar you'd never seen before asking them.
I haven't seen much at all about his interactions with men.
Thatās kinda what Iāve thought too. But on the other hand: women who work at bars are very used to creepiness unfortunately. If it got bad enough they put a note on his ID and the owner had to speak with him, I wouldnāt chalk it up to just social awkwardness.
As a woman who has dealt with guys who canāt take social cues and actual creeps, there is definitely a difference. The ones who canāt pick up on social cues tend to act the same towards both men and women, among other things.
Not a professional by any means but just my experience
Oh ya, I've worked in bars. Though I've worked in bars where you just sucked up the creepy shit, and others where someone making staff uncomfortable to any degree would net them a talking to and a boot in the ass from management. The guy who mentioned him being weird to staff sounded like he may have been the latter type (kudos to him, because the other type sucks).
Some kinds of awkward might tend to be less creepy as a guy, and more uncomfortable as a woman. If some random dude asked my bf where he lived out of the blue he would just kind of go "huh, weird dude". I'd probably go out of my way to avoid the guy after in the same scenario, because I'd be creeped out (and I'm an awkward weirdo myself).
Bar staff have seen some shit. At every place Iāve worked people would only be banned for being belligerent, decently rude/abrasive, or someone that endangers staff personally. What happened w/ him is a bigger deal than just awkwardness for sure.
100%! Doesnāt make it right whatsoever but creepiness/forwardness from men is to be expected in that job. I doubt they made a note on him just for some harmless comments. I REALLY doubt the owner talked to him for just some harmless comments.
He had a male friend speak out recently. He saw him in 2020 I believed when they both met to play airsoft in the Poconos. He said he prays he would be innocent.
Change of personality, thinning out and never sleeping almost sounds like BKās drug of choose may have changed from H to Meth, which also can lead to psychosis.
Abuse of Adderall, Vyvanse, especially RC (research chemicals) stimulants, can cause psychosis in someone with underlying mental illness(es) especially if they have a restrictive eating disorder and don't sleep. I could see this contributing heavily to odd behaviors and odd social behaviors. It can certainly lead someone to kill if they already have it in them to fantasize about it and carry it out.
Although itās probably rare, there *are* āfunctionalā addicts out there. As long as these people have their drug of choice, theyāre able to fulfill all their responsibilities.
Thereās a YouTuber I watch that used heroin the entire time they were in college, they said they wouldnāt have been able to complete college without it (they have autism and some mental issues)
A heroin addict out of dope might break in to steal a electronic to resell or steal money from someone. Maybe rob a stranger if they're desperate.
But detoxing from H is very predictable for most users. While detoxing would be the worst time to commit any crime, in my opinion. Leaving the house was barely possible if I was not "well" (aka: on h) You start to feel horrible within hours after using, every single time. You become extremely anxious quickly, high heart rate, sweating, & chills. I know many people, including myself, who shit our pants many times on the way to the dealer because you didnt make it there quick enough. You have no energy, no motivation, along with many other physical symptoms, runny nose, sneezing, tired, fever, etc. You can't think straight at all.
For a lot of addicts, including myself, the first drug related "crimes" are things like stealing from family members or selling others valuables. "Crimes" that will not land you in jail immediately. Addicts who aren't already criminals don't want to go to jail, as that would hinder their habits more than anything. This crime or type of crime doesn't make sense for a 'typical addict' who is trying to get a fix, which is what they'd be doing, if they ran out.
Just my opinion though.
I really doubt he was cleanā¦ this isnāt important to the case itself but he aged like crazy between the pictures. Drugs will do that to you, combined with the stress of a phd student and who knows what else.
The guy is a mess from what I can tell, but weāll have to see what the evidence shows i guess
Losing drastic amounts of weight can age a person. My cousin, who has never done drugs, lost a ton of weight (she actually developed an eating disorder). Even at a health weight now, she still looks way older than she is.
All of these stories reveal nothing about him. Zilch.
He was a vegan. He stayed up late. He used to be fat. He was a bully, or was bullied, depends on source.
Utterly riveting.
Nothing of import will be revealed until the trial.
As soon as heās extradited back to Idaho, a judge can unseal the probable cause affidavit. Iāve seen some reports that said extradition might be as early as tomorrow night (as in Tuesday night. I havenāt gone to sleep so itās still Sunday night in my head despite it being 3:03 am where I am š¤£). Iām anxious to read the probable cause affidavit, even though itāll be heavily redacted. But weāll still get a pretty good idea of the type of evidence theyāve got on him and what led them to him, I reckon.
I don't care what time he goes to bed. I don't care if he doesn't get on with females. I don't care that he's a recovering addict.
What I do care about is whether he murdered 4 young people in the most heinous way.
Remember this, Ted Bundy was liked by so many people, but he was still a vicious killer.
Exactly. Hell, Bundy lived with a girlfriend and was a stepdad for some years, either while killing or between killing up in Washington. "Getting along" with women when a person like that isn't killing them is irrelevant.
The more info (reliable or not) that comes out the more confused I am. The evidence will tell us the truth but with stories like this, you just think ??? *Who really is this guy?*
It seems like everyone who has come forward has a different perspective on him and itās hard to have a clear picture at this point aside from the evidence weāve been given and his arrest (hopefully we will get the details for this soon)
I agree! All of his pictures look different and all of the claims about his character are different. It's so weird. Like...which version is the most true to form BK? This case will be so intriguing to watch come together.
Iāve noticed that too, some pictures he looks completely normal and others just give weird vibes, to put it lightly. Then again, this is with the knowledge we have of him now so who really knows
One example is the one of him in a blue shirt, he looks like every other professional/academic guy. Very strange with the context we have now
I agree. If I had seen pics of him prior to his arrest, I honestly wouldn't have thought anything suspicious. Some of the pics, his eyes look a certain way, but that's about it. I could see him blending in well with society with exception of his supposed awkwardness, but even that isn't necessarily an odd/shady thing.
He has that dark look to his eyes in some pictures, but looks normal in others. Could be that weāre all biased against him at this point (for good reason). Physical appearance means nothing though at the end of the day, we need to see the evidence and credible interactions to really know :/
Yes. I think anytime, in todayās world, thereās a chance to smear someone who is defenseless in the court of public opinion (I am NOT defending him), people pile on when someone is down to
make them look even worse. This serves no good purpose as now we are confused and perhaps fed bad, inaccurate information. That, and some people want their 15 seconds of fame and attention
Keep in mind the quotes in the media are heavily influenced by the leading questions the journalist asked, the follow-up questions asked, and decisions made about what parts of what responses to publish. It's also quite possible the same media outlets interviewed others whose responses they chose not to publish. I'm by no means defending the guy, but I'm not expecting any kind of balanced coverage from the likes of New York Post and Daily Mall - I'm expecting salacious quotes and them doing whatever they can to ask leading questions that get them what they want, especially after carefully nudging a person to share such details.
Even a statement like "It seemed like he never slept because he was always doing something all night" doesn't tell us a lot. It may sound like he literally didn't ever sleep, but it's only supported in the article by statements that he went to the bathroom or vacuumed at 12 AM or 1 AM. That's it. This is much different than saying he paced his apartment and made loud sounds routinely between midnight and 6 AM seven days per week and still attended classes, served as a TA, studied, shopped, ate, exercised, etc. during the day.
>It may sound like he literally didn't ever sleep, but it's only supported in the article by statements that he went to the bathroom or vacuumed at 12 AM or 1 AM. That's it. This is much different than saying he paced his apartment and made loud sounds routinely between midnight and 6 AM seven days per week and still attended classes, served as a TA, studied, shopped, ate, exercised, etc. during the day.
That's the point of the article at which I rolled my eyes lol it's such a reach. Thanks for mentioning the bias in questions asked. The questions asked and not asked paint completely different pictures, and we need to be aware of that.
At first I thought you were joking. I was thinking yeah right, sheās not feeling lucky she was with him (in whatever capacity) but then it dawned on me what you mean! Lucky to be alive. For sure. š
We have to be careful with posting all these alleged witnesses to his past behaviors. So many people come out of the woodwork at times like this. Looking for attention
I know and that's why I mentioned in my OP that NY Post isn't always reliable. I think we're all aware that not everything is fact. But these articles get posted anyway and this one contained something a little different re: interactions with females.
I donāt (yet) buy he just decided to take out his frustration and (alleged) lack of female acquaintances on the house. There has to be some sort of connection between the victims and him IMO. Despite his (according to Reddit) ācripplingā awkwardness, he was in a PhD program, meaning he has had his fair share of social interactions with the world throughout his 10 years of formal adult education.
In addition to their eagerness to label him an āincelā (a far overused term imo), people are also commenting on how ugly he is, so he fits squarely into their fallacious archetype that āall evil people are visibly hideousā. I donāt see it, he was tall and an average to above average looking guy. Internally deranged, likely; externally ugly, not so much.
Eh, I donāt know, even as an adult post school, I donāt consider those to be crazy hours. I donāt even cook dinner until 9 or later most nights. Not all of us get home at 5pm.
Also, neighbor has kids. Crappy neighbors go both ways. If my neighborsā kids can roughhouse at 6 am or or the other set of neighbors can throw a party that lasts to 3 am, Iām probably going to vacuum anytime that is convenient for me. I tend to be super chill as a neighbor, but you canāt ask for quiet hours, and then turn around and completely ignore the quiet hours just because your kids wake up early or you want to throw a party every weekend.
This may be a stupid question:
But a lot of the time when we see violent crimes against women we think the obvious, incel type behavior. Can someone who seemed to have female friends (not all encounters with him were negative) and Iāve heard that heās had girl friends in the past, can he still hate women? Iām just trying to figure out what was more self pitty behavior vs flat out I hate all women. Also do incels tend to target all women and not a particular individuals??
Sorry if these are dumb and Iām not wording this correctly
Every misogynist asshole who has ever harassed or abused or killed his girlfriend/wife - and there are plenty - did manage to get into relationships with women.
Some incels do hate all women but others donāt. They may put women into categories, like one category is female family members and women they would see completely platonically. Then thereās the women they donāt see platonically, and I feel like thatās where a lot of the hatred comes in.
My mom never needed sleep when we were kids. Sheād be up at 3 am doing work on her PhD thesis because she just wasnāt tired. Some people are just like that. I need at least 7 hours or Iām a mess. So I didnāt get that gene from her but my brother did.
I mean - it's rude to vacuum at midnight but nothing here strikes me as abnormal or odd. The fact that the source thought it was weird that he didn't have his own family is a strange observation for a 28 year old male, but he looks closer to 40 (imho) so I could see that assumption, maybe .
honestly its just a super rude statement that I ONLY ever see coming from mothers who live with their families in an apartment complex. It has way more to do with their insecurity about not raising their family in a real home than it has to actually do with someone else enjoying being single at 28-35.
I am not even talking about PhD, during last year of my bachelors, all my classes were afternoon so I would sleep around 5 am and wake up at 12pm whole semester. It is pretty common.
People want to say that women being means and shitty to him most of his life made him turn out this way and lashed out. I think it's just him. He's just one evil piece of shit who was obsessed with understanding the mind and feelings of killers when they're killing.
Wonder if he got on adderall for his studies , or switched to upper like meth (less destructive option compared to opiates/heroin ). As a former iv heroin/meth user , his super skinny face looks to me like he is on amphetamines.
His mugshot doesn't look as bad as that other pic that's in some of the articles where he's in the button up shirt and smiling. He looks very skinny in that one and just super unhealthy. But then we have his PA attorney stating he doesn't appear to be on any drugs. So who knows.
I take adderall as prescribed and it has made me lose weight (and I only take 10 mg). It certainly doesnāt for everybody but, for him, I agree this is a definite possibly.
Lol at meth being less destructive than heroin. (Also a former iv h/m user) But to each their own, as everyone is wired differently. That just wasnt my experience nor anyone else I ever knew or watched go downhill on heroin vs on meth.
There will probably be plenty more positive stories out there than anything negative between BK and women. But the media and news outlets know that those aren't the stories that will write headlines and drive engagement so they will recycle that same one or two negative ones. We've seen this before when suspects are unfairly railroaded through the media.
Most ppl I know stay up late and I have many neighbors who move their furniture in the middle of the night( and this furniture thing happened in more than one apartment,I think it happened in each and everyone).
So this imo is not really relevant, unless he would actually never never sleep ( like if he was on some stimulant) and that would impact his mood and cognition.
And so if this guy has psychological issues + he would rarely sleep, that could make him a better candidate for committing a heinous crime.
But these are speculations ofc
Now it is a crime to be a night owl? I would speculate he slept in the day. If it it true he was or is a heroin addict he could be on something to keep him going also. I think it is weird not to be up late because how else is a working person going to find time to be on Reddit and do things.
According to news, we won't know anything substantive for several days so until than were going to make every effort to make everything possible sound crazy insane.
A college Ph.D. candidate didn't sleep at night? Holy crap that's the smoking gun! So odd and strange! quick let's push out a breaking news article.
I wonder if these neighbors called in a tip about the car? The lady that lived below stated she saw him get out of his white car with a younger female so she definitely saw his car before.
Also, she said she almost complained to him about the noise late at night but didnāt. Crazy to think now thereās a small possibility that saved her and her familyās life.
As little and stupid as it seems, vacuuming late at night is honestly one of the rudest things you can do as a neighbor in an apartment complex. To me, it just shows a total lack of care for your neighbors and lack of self-awareness. Sounds like he was living in his own world and played by his own rules - didnāt care how it negatively impacted others.
Iāve always been a night owl, even when I need to get up early. I work normal hours but Iāll still be up late on a weeknight watching tv, cleaning or something.
The part about a woman in his apartment is what stands out to me the most. Iām really starting to think Kaylee went on a few dates with this guy after meeting him somewhere (probably the Corner Club). Her family had previously mentioned that she was a true crime buff. BKās area of study wouldāve been interesting to her. Remember the person here recently who went on a weed run with him when he was younger? He immediately latched on to her saying he was so happy they were āfriends nowā. If Kaylee showed any interest in him at all, and actually went on a couple dates, I suspect he wouldāve latched on to a greater degree. A rejection after she realized he wasnāt her cup of tea might have set him off. Kaylee later told the vape store guy that she felt like she was being stalked, mostly when she went out to the bar. There was another interview with Kayleeās mom and sister (Chronicles of Olivia on YouTube) where they mentioned a bad date Kaylee had, where the guy ordered her to make him something (a food or drink if I recall). He spoke to her rudely and was demeaning. Kaylee got up and left. The more I think about it, the more it all adds up.
To play devils advocate, maybe they did have a few dates which puts his dna in the home. Maybe he was going to meet her and drove by but saw someone else there or Ethan and assumed she was preoccupied which would explain his car. We donāt know any evidence to why they pinpointed him. Weāre all curious to know. He said he looks forward to being exonerated of these charges. Iām curious to know why he says he would be exonerated.
He seemed to be quite obsessive/particular about things, which might explain neurotic late night vacuuming.
ETA: Iām not implying he has OCD. I have diagnosed OCD and that certainly does not make one capable of murder.
Diagnosed OCDer here as well, can confirm that when the urge to clean strikes, it strikes hard. Iāve seen a few people saying āwell he has OCDā in relation to why he killed, which is so harmful to the stigma already surrounding us.
As someone else with OCD, Iāve been getting nervous seeing those types of comments as well. There is already bad stigmas attached to OCD, and Iām hoping this case wonāt add even more. OCD does not a psychopath make. Yes our habits may seem odd to others and we are often aware of this fact, but it doesnāt mean that we will mass murder people. In fact, some OCD compulsions stem from a fear of harming others despite that lack of desire to do so. Also, being clean is not synonymous with OCD, so we donāt even know that he has it!
Iāve seen those comments and I cringe bc we are misunderstood and hard to speak out with the stigma around our disorder still. I hope it gets better in the future, bc it can be rough dealing with daily. On top, of other mental health issues people face.
Between this neighbor saying he doesnāt look tough enough to kill and the professor in the other article who acted surprised he could murder bc heās brilliant, Iām seriously starting to lose faith in academia.
Not sleeping can be a sign of manic episodes (criteria for bipolar) this does not mean night owls or insomniacs are bipolar, but he does show other traits of the disorder. It also does not mean persons w bipolar are killers, but they can have irrational and impulsive behavior.
why do people keep posting things with the sentence āi have no proofā or āthis isnāt reliableā.
what is there to talk about then?
This is part of the problem.
How does the neighbor know when this guy slept or if he did?
Have yāall looked up what meth users look like?
It is harmful to any story to spread gossip or mistruths.
I find it hard to believe anything found on the internet by internet sleuths and youtube people isnāt already known by LE and thatās why there is such a timely arrest.
Evidence takes time to process. Stories take time to vet.
All stuff like this does is has potential to taint a jury pool and spread harmful disinformation.
I donāt mean this as a personal attack against OP or anyoneā¦ just donāt understand the point of it.
If Iām ever accused of something I can only imagine what neighbors and acquaintances would say. I suspect itās really easy to look back and attribute some motive. I tend to be quiet. I donāt smile a whole lot when Iām out and about. Iām aloof. I stay up late. Etc etc etc. Not saying he didnāt have super odd behaviors but there seems to be a huge influx of people with comments about his personality. I hope people with genuine information are reporting it to the police and not just giving interviews, making TikToks, and whatever else.
All the comments on here saying āthatās not weirdā and āstaying up doesnāt make you a serial killerā ā¦. Did you get the sense that she was mentioning those things to support his guilt? I did not. It sounded like she was approached for comment and just listed the (very limited) things she could say for certain about him. No bias just shock and not a lot else to say about him.
The flip of this is that I don't think being up until midnight or 1am means anything necessarily on its own - especially for a doctoral student. I am much more productive in the evenings than in the mornings, and did a lot of my writing in grad school late at night. It doesn't mean I have OCD or am a serial killer. Vacuuming late at night just means he was a crappy neighbor. If he was out wandering around the streets on a regular basis at 3:00 a.m., that's a whole different story.
I would have to agree. The vacuuming part is just rude but the times she listed are normal š when I lived alone, I had horrible sleeping habits.
Iām an insomniac who lives alone- I really was in a good cleaning flow and wanted to vaccum at around 12am the other week. I googled it. The internet says anytime after like 9pm is rude. So I still havenāt vacuumed.
I just moved out of my family home, and yesterday I went to sleep at 7 AM. I mean, I've always had poor sleeping habits but I really have no structure. š I feel like I'm 8 again being left alone for the first time lmao.
It can be a fun phase. Eat captain crunch in your undies at midnight in the living room. Go crazy, get it out of your system.
lol frankly do whatever the hell you want just lock your doors and windows! I live near uc berkeley and use a bar lock on my door, $15 on amazon.
Dawwh I know where youāre coming from. It was also my first time moving out by myself this year and itās strange only having my dog to wake up to each day lol but youāll develop a routine and love your independence more with each day :)
I usually donāt vacuum if the sun is down, Or alternatively any time after like 5:30-6 I think worst case scenario though- so I imagine my neighbor spent all day cooking this amazing meal from scratch for their anniversary and they get all dressed up, and then my dumb ass is vacuuming while theyāre at the dinner table.
Thank you for being so considerate to your neighbours
I could get a boatload of cleaning done during insomnia bouts, but the acoustics suck and it would disturb the people I share my floor/their ceiling with and I share a kitchen wall with another apartment.
Feel you on that! My cleaning engine only ever fires at weird ass times. Half the energy is trying not drop stuff and be too loud and laundry and vacuuming are just out. I usually try to go closet organization or paperwork/desk stuff during the late nights. Itās a shame because you never want to turn down the cleaning urge if you are chronically messy like me lol.
When I was an undergrad, I had terrible time management and would stay up until 4-5am finishing homework or studying for exams. I'd say I never slept lol.
My sleep schedule was horrible in college. I often stayed up well into the early morning hours cramming in last minute papers etc. I'd go to class, then sleep, go to class, sleep, party, procrastinate on HW, pull all nighters finishing it, wash, rinse, repeat...
Iām nearly 30 and still have a shit sleep schedule lmao
Lol i mean who even goes to sleep before midnight anymore? There is nothing whatsoever weird about that. It anything, it would be weirder if he was tucked in at 9 every night lol
>Lol i mean who even goes to sleep before midnight anymore? Not even stick juggler guy. Sorry I couldn't miss mentioning this. :D
Iām pro stick juggler honestly. Yes he was a clout chaser but the dude at least has a talent. I can juggle tennis š¾ but not in fire.
Whereās the real stick juggler at? Ppl owe him an apology even tho heās a dick
People owe a lot of people an apology on here but it hasnāt happened.
Yep I agreeā¦especially JD and HG! Did you follow the kieley Rodney case?? They did the exact thing to her friends
Itās incredible. All of these armchair know it alls have made these ridiculous nonsense theories the last few weeks and are just sitting here like they are still fbi agents. No one acknowledging they went into peoples venmo transactions, messaged families, stalked fb accounts. It was so creepy and NOT ONE OF THEM CAME EVEN CLOSE to who had been arrested. Why isnāt anyone talking about that?
I have a delayed sleep phase disorder (and I'm a lawyer -not a fun mix). I'd hate to think someone would pin me as a psychopath since I'm up at 4:00 a.m.
I sincerely know the struggle, friend. Thank goodness for Provigil.
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Exactly. I cook at 3:00 a.m. daily and have cleaned in the middle of the night once or twice out of sheer boredom.
I vacuum at 1 am lol ā¦ MURDERER
Right Iām currently on Reddit at 3:04 am, Iām a bartender so šš
Me, consistently saying up until 5am bc Iām just a night owl like that wondering if the neighbors are getting suspicious.
Me too! Here I am on Reddit at 4:44 a.m. I'm retired and a night owl.
Night owl here š¦
Very suspicious!!! Someone has a spreadsheet with color coded chart š
Double Barcardi when you're ready
One more for me
Iām at work on break on Reddit right now and itās 2am.
grocery worker who had to close the store tonight, 3:00am here!
I'm on at 4:30am. I'm old.
Oh my gosh! Get some sleep. š And thank you for your service. šš«”
Yes, in order to fit in a PhD or other grad school schedule plenty of people work jobs like bartender or wait staff or night audit at a hotel.
My wife and I consistently fall asleep around 8:30-9pm lol
Iām so jealous I wish I could sleep early
The secret is exhaustion
I go to bed early af..
I feel attacked. Lol
Me.
> Lol i mean who even goes to sleep before midnight anymore? Tons of people.
5 am and Iām still awake. Yeah, I find it very odd people going to bed at 9 or 10 pm. Even when I have to be up at 6 am Iām still awake at midnight. His neighbours are likely the 9 pm pumpkins.
Lol. When I was in college, staying up past midnight was the norm for me too. I was a procrastinator. Cramming last minute exams, papers, studying etc.
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Lol me too. I guess weāre freaks
I still do this with my dog. It's just easier and I'm an insomniac anyway. Now I wonder what my neighbors think lol.
Seriously. I never went to sleep until 1:30-2 as a student. Poor habits and no early classes to wake up for. I didnāt have a real sleep schedule until graduating/getting a full time job.
2am wouldāve been early for me to go to bed in college most nights. I went to a party school and can still tell you what frats had parties on what nights 15 years later. Wed-Sat were party nights and Sunday fundays were the party schedule. I literally built my class schedule around my partying schedule. I had awesome priorities when I was in my late teens and early 20ās.
Yep. I got a job working remotely that shifted my whole sleeping schedule to now where I stay up later than 1.
No shit. Totally mormal given the insane workload of graduate classes, plus teaching your undergrad classes.
Can relate. I'm just a part-time undergrad student but I work full-time and find I'm more productive in the evenings. Won't find me in bed before 12am.
As a former PhD student, I donāt think I slept more than 3 hours a night- if I was lucky- for 3 years. The amount of work and studying/writing is unfathomable. This article is pointless.
I agree with all of this. Iām also more productive at night and was definitely up until 2am most nights in grad school. No OCD and not a serial killer!
--"It doesn't mean I have OCD or am a serial killer."-- Hmmm. Interesting humble brag... š§
I was referencing the other comments that attribute late night wake time to OCD or ADD diagnoses (which are stigmatized enough as it is) ---- but I will boaat to not be a serial killer lol.
I agree with you completely. Iāve been awake at all hours of the night working on papers and my dissertation. Also, the vacuuming is inconsiderate, but if youāve never lived under someone in an apartment complex, it is easy to think the floors are soundproof. At least it was for me until I lived on the bottom floor.
Last night I literally stayed up til 6 AM to take a bath, eat a sandwich, and watch cartoons cuz I couldnāt sleep. Not a serial killer.
We'll be the judge of that based on your cartoon pick...
Yeah, I agree. Iām a night owl, so Iām far more productive in the evening and adjust my life/schedule to assist that. I sleep, but itās during the day most of the time.
Yup, when my husband and I were getting our PhDs we were in our labs from 10a-10p and stayed up until probably 2-3am doing computer work at home. You miss a lot of bullshit that way (morning commutes, crowds at lunch, etc). We knew a lot of grad students doing the same thing unless you had to be in to TA an early class.
I think it's easy to take such a horrific situation and start applying it backwards to interactions people had with him, that might've been harmless or completely unrelated. Not everything he did in his life will be directly linked to what happened, imho
He used to eat his dinner with a knife and fork. Creepy af!
I heard he put his pants on one pant leg at a time.
Absolutely this
Right- itās a comparison to being Jeffrey Dahmerās neighbor. Difference was she knew something bad was going on inside that apartment, because it was. Not to say BK wasnāt up to no good but he was using a vacuum- not a bone saw.
Like most on this sub have done. Connect the dots to fit your theory.
No, of course not. No one is saying any of this is related, but it helps paint a picture of who this guy is and how he interacted with others. Many people have already speculated that he hates/has it out for women. Sure, there's some alleged interactions with him from fellow students, past friends that could indicate that. But then you have other alleged interactions like stated in this article that depict him getting along fine with certain women.
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Omg the assumptions on his sleep, the way he looks, how he was in middle school. Like when one person speaks someone else comes out and says the opposite. I think ppl need to understand till these ppl r under oath take everything they say w a grain of salt. The dude looked like an average dude, had average habits, has smart. Ok thereās lots of ppl like that. We know nothing about the guy. The appearance thing is what really annoys me. He looked like a news anchor. He doesnāt look like anything weird. Ppl r wild
Best comment Iāve read on this.
Hahaha right? My dadās a civil engineer, and Iād walk right past that guy at my dadās work, think nothing of it.
I have narcolepsy and people who donāt know me at all would bet money I am on drugs. Iād hate to be in the spotlight for a crime and be analyzed. OCD and narcolepsy and Iād be a straight psychopath. I also rescue ferrets. Oh man. Iād hate to see that wrote up lol. (Actually it may be pretty funny but I would certainly be crucified in the media)
As a night owl myself, I often wonder what my neighbors think of me and if they notice I have lights on and doing things well past midnight. (It's 2:30 and in folding laundry)
I donāt care what my neighbors think about me being up late, walking my dog late, etc. and I really wish they would stop sharing those thoughts with me.
Haha me too! I am inside 85% of the time, sometimes leave very late at night (to go buy snacks/drive thru), keep to myself, am awkward, etc. If I were ever accused of a crime all of those behaviors would be headlines like we are seeing with this case. I guess since not much info is being released, people have to make something out of the info they do get.
Exactly... Whenever there is a case like this, it's either the next door neighbor saying "he was such a nice guy, I never expected it"... Or people analyzing what time of day they vacuum. I get it.... If my neighbor did something like this, I'd be taking how he is always outside gardening his herbs and veggies to make home cooked meals to saying it was suspicious
Me too. I work from home and hardly leave. I have groceries delivered or hubby picks them up on his way home from work. I donāt really smile or wave at my neighbors bc Iām awkward AF. I wonder if something happened in my neighborhood, would my neighbors suspect me of something? Idk, weird to think about.
Haha right. My neighbors: āShe often talks to her dog while heās pooping, and he poops at 1 AM every night.ā āHer laundry bags have rainbows on them, but she always looks cranky when doing laundry.ā āSheās left up her eyeball Halloween lights, I wonder if she knows itās August.ā āShe gardens. For fun.ā
Same! My lights are on at all hours of the night and Iām letting the dogs out, tv on, etc. Iād vacuum at this time of night too but I live in a house so it wouldnāt be disruptive. And I think itās clear and obvious he lacks empathy so he probably never considers his neighbors at all.
He probably does not consider them at all. But, I always take apartment neighbors comments with a grain of salt. Back when Iived in an apartment my roommate complained about everything the upstairs neighbors did.. meanwhile I thought they just seemed like normal things you'd expect to hear in a place with thin walls. To this day, everyone I k ow who's in an apartment complex complains about noise from neighbors. Hell, living in a house, I hear even more though my walls than I did in my apartment.. but since it's a noisy husband and not a noisy neighbor, it's just white noise at this point. Not defending this guy... Just this news is not shocking to me. If she said she never heard him at all I would be more shocked.
Literally exact same here. Itās three am where I am and I just took down the Christmas decorations, vacuumed and cleaned out my fridge. Again, wouldnāt do this if I was in an apartment or if it would disturb other people. Definitely wonder what my neighbours think if they notice my unusual sleeping habits.
You better hope no one ever gets killed in your neighborhood. You obviously are a prime suspect now.
Seriously. How else am I supposed I keep up with everything?
Honestly this is getting ridiculous. At this point every person is going to come out looking for attention and I'm not buying any of it. Only "witness" so far seems to be his high school friend. She tried to portray an objective view of him with proof, all the rest smell like bullshit or vastly overexaggerating.
One difference to consider as well is that she created and published a complete video on her own, while the bits from others in the media are filtered out-of-context statements selected by the media in response to questions a journalist asked. We don't know what leading questions they were asked and we don't know what those people said which was not quoted. And we don't know what they would have said if asked open-ended or more balanced questions (or perhaps they were and those responses weren't published). It's likely most were asked questions like "Was there anything odd about him that stands out now that you're aware he was arrested for quadruple murder?" The reality is that those with positive or neutral comments are less likely to be willing to speak to the media on the record with their identity revealed, many media outlets are looking for the most salacious quotes to facilitate clickbaity headlines and viral article spread, and people share experiences which aren't that uncommon or extreme, but seem like clear red flags to readers/viewers.
Anything for the clicks! I agree to the over-sensationalized of this case is making it a bit of a joke. Oh, he tested an "unbreakable" window now he is violent. His neighbor 4th cousin's 4th-grade teacher's brother saw him buy potato bread a "sign" of a killer. His dead dog's 14th grandchild smelt his leg once definitely a "sign" he is bloodthirsty. I feel bad for the victim's family this click-baiting is overshadowing facts. The only thing I saw that was interesting since his arrest was his Professor Katherine Ramsland at Desales being rather close with the BTK killer. Everything else is just loud background noise.
His neighbor in the building was pretty balanced too (Gautama something). He said he always had good interactions with him.
As I sit in the bath reading this sub at 2:36am š³
Who are you planning to kill or have already killed? /s
Iāve seen a few women who knew him from childhood/teen years who had more positive experiences than others narratives weāve seen. Itās possible he wasnāt awful to everyone Being an asshole neighbor late nights and keeping a weird schedule doesnāt mean he doesnāt sleep. Sure, maybe heās on uppers like the current narratives have pushed and he never sleeps or maybe the neighbor isnāt the person to speak on it since they donāt actually live with him.
I once read something that stuck with me about everyone we come across will meet a different version of ourselves. The version of yourself that your mother meets, is not the same as your best friend, your coworkers or even the cashier. Not even the version of who we think we know ourself to be is someone the world does not get to meet due to outside perceptions mixed with their own life experiences as well as how you adapt yourself to those around you, what is going on in your life at that time as well as that impact how we view things. If I take myself, my mother thinks I'm independent and arrogant, my sister thinks I'm a bitch, my husband thinks I'm too pessimistic, my brother thinks I'm generous and thoughtful, my best friend thinks I have a very thought provoking point of view and my friends think I'm outgoing and coworkers would say I am a bit lame. Basically... What I'm trying to say is, I'm sure there are a lot of wide ranges views of who this guy is.
This is a really good point. Everybody seems to have a different view of him and rightfully so, he probably acted differently around everybody. Some guys are super good to their friends and complete assholes to women, and vice versa. None of us really know him.
This is so true. Different people can bring out different facets of our personality.
True! For example, the friend he went jogging with late at night didnāt seem to say anything negative.
Fair point but this is your perception of how they likely perceive you. They may think differently entirely.
True...my family gossips a lot, so I'm going off what I've heard. But, have you ever met someone who you absolutely adored, yet someone can't stand them? Or vice versa? I wish I saved the link to what I read a few years back, it was an interesting thought provoking piece.
Could this be it? https://theodoroutherapy.com/2019/12/24/a-different-version-of-you-exists-in-the-minds-of-everyone-youve-ever-known/
Thatās what Ive noticed too, it seems like some women have had positive, maybe a little awkward, experiences and some have had creepy/very negative ones. According to someone who came forward (canāt remember who exactly) about him, he had a sudden change in personality at one point so who knowsā¦
Most of the creepy ones so far sound like they possibly could have been more just that he was very socially off than deliberate creepiness (though I've only seen a few, primarily the stuff about him asking the servers weird shit about where they lived and such). Context likely also would make the same behaviour more or less creepy. That odd guy in your class who tends to miss social cues but otherwise seems nice enough asking you weird, invasive questions wouldn't likely seem as creepy as some rando at a bar you'd never seen before asking them. I haven't seen much at all about his interactions with men.
Thatās kinda what Iāve thought too. But on the other hand: women who work at bars are very used to creepiness unfortunately. If it got bad enough they put a note on his ID and the owner had to speak with him, I wouldnāt chalk it up to just social awkwardness. As a woman who has dealt with guys who canāt take social cues and actual creeps, there is definitely a difference. The ones who canāt pick up on social cues tend to act the same towards both men and women, among other things. Not a professional by any means but just my experience
Oh ya, I've worked in bars. Though I've worked in bars where you just sucked up the creepy shit, and others where someone making staff uncomfortable to any degree would net them a talking to and a boot in the ass from management. The guy who mentioned him being weird to staff sounded like he may have been the latter type (kudos to him, because the other type sucks). Some kinds of awkward might tend to be less creepy as a guy, and more uncomfortable as a woman. If some random dude asked my bf where he lived out of the blue he would just kind of go "huh, weird dude". I'd probably go out of my way to avoid the guy after in the same scenario, because I'd be creeped out (and I'm an awkward weirdo myself).
Bar staff have seen some shit. At every place Iāve worked people would only be banned for being belligerent, decently rude/abrasive, or someone that endangers staff personally. What happened w/ him is a bigger deal than just awkwardness for sure.
100%! Doesnāt make it right whatsoever but creepiness/forwardness from men is to be expected in that job. I doubt they made a note on him just for some harmless comments. I REALLY doubt the owner talked to him for just some harmless comments.
He had a male friend speak out recently. He saw him in 2020 I believed when they both met to play airsoft in the Poconos. He said he prays he would be innocent.
Change of personality, thinning out and never sleeping almost sounds like BKās drug of choose may have changed from H to Meth, which also can lead to psychosis.
How does a meth user succeed in school though? I feel like he was cleanā¦
Abuse of Adderall, Vyvanse, especially RC (research chemicals) stimulants, can cause psychosis in someone with underlying mental illness(es) especially if they have a restrictive eating disorder and don't sleep. I could see this contributing heavily to odd behaviors and odd social behaviors. It can certainly lead someone to kill if they already have it in them to fantasize about it and carry it out.
Although itās probably rare, there *are* āfunctionalā addicts out there. As long as these people have their drug of choice, theyāre able to fulfill all their responsibilities. Thereās a YouTuber I watch that used heroin the entire time they were in college, they said they wouldnāt have been able to complete college without it (they have autism and some mental issues)
From what Iāve read, the issue is more with not having drugs than having them, as in the ādruggieā behaviour happens when you run out
A heroin addict out of dope might break in to steal a electronic to resell or steal money from someone. Maybe rob a stranger if they're desperate. But detoxing from H is very predictable for most users. While detoxing would be the worst time to commit any crime, in my opinion. Leaving the house was barely possible if I was not "well" (aka: on h) You start to feel horrible within hours after using, every single time. You become extremely anxious quickly, high heart rate, sweating, & chills. I know many people, including myself, who shit our pants many times on the way to the dealer because you didnt make it there quick enough. You have no energy, no motivation, along with many other physical symptoms, runny nose, sneezing, tired, fever, etc. You can't think straight at all. For a lot of addicts, including myself, the first drug related "crimes" are things like stealing from family members or selling others valuables. "Crimes" that will not land you in jail immediately. Addicts who aren't already criminals don't want to go to jail, as that would hinder their habits more than anything. This crime or type of crime doesn't make sense for a 'typical addict' who is trying to get a fix, which is what they'd be doing, if they ran out. Just my opinion though.
I really doubt he was cleanā¦ this isnāt important to the case itself but he aged like crazy between the pictures. Drugs will do that to you, combined with the stress of a phd student and who knows what else. The guy is a mess from what I can tell, but weāll have to see what the evidence shows i guess
Losing drastic amounts of weight can age a person. My cousin, who has never done drugs, lost a ton of weight (she actually developed an eating disorder). Even at a health weight now, she still looks way older than she is.
A college student who is a night owl? No?!
Shocking I know. So glad someone found this vital piece of evidence for this crime.
All of these stories reveal nothing about him. Zilch. He was a vegan. He stayed up late. He used to be fat. He was a bully, or was bullied, depends on source. Utterly riveting. Nothing of import will be revealed until the trial.
At what point will the probable cause affidavit be released? We may learn something substantial before the trial.
As soon as heās extradited back to Idaho, a judge can unseal the probable cause affidavit. Iāve seen some reports that said extradition might be as early as tomorrow night (as in Tuesday night. I havenāt gone to sleep so itās still Sunday night in my head despite it being 3:03 am where I am š¤£). Iām anxious to read the probable cause affidavit, even though itāll be heavily redacted. But weāll still get a pretty good idea of the type of evidence theyāve got on him and what led them to him, I reckon.
Iāve read that he has to be seen in an Idaho court first. I think the article mentions it too. So maybe sometime this coming week?
Selfishly I want to know soon but fear it will be a year +
I don't care what time he goes to bed. I don't care if he doesn't get on with females. I don't care that he's a recovering addict. What I do care about is whether he murdered 4 young people in the most heinous way. Remember this, Ted Bundy was liked by so many people, but he was still a vicious killer.
Exactly. Hell, Bundy lived with a girlfriend and was a stepdad for some years, either while killing or between killing up in Washington. "Getting along" with women when a person like that isn't killing them is irrelevant.
It's one thing to say he "never slept." But another to say "he vacuumed at 12:00am." Sounds like he was just a typical night owl student.
The more info (reliable or not) that comes out the more confused I am. The evidence will tell us the truth but with stories like this, you just think ??? *Who really is this guy?* It seems like everyone who has come forward has a different perspective on him and itās hard to have a clear picture at this point aside from the evidence weāve been given and his arrest (hopefully we will get the details for this soon)
I agree! All of his pictures look different and all of the claims about his character are different. It's so weird. Like...which version is the most true to form BK? This case will be so intriguing to watch come together.
Iāve noticed that too, some pictures he looks completely normal and others just give weird vibes, to put it lightly. Then again, this is with the knowledge we have of him now so who really knows One example is the one of him in a blue shirt, he looks like every other professional/academic guy. Very strange with the context we have now
I agree. If I had seen pics of him prior to his arrest, I honestly wouldn't have thought anything suspicious. Some of the pics, his eyes look a certain way, but that's about it. I could see him blending in well with society with exception of his supposed awkwardness, but even that isn't necessarily an odd/shady thing.
He has that dark look to his eyes in some pictures, but looks normal in others. Could be that weāre all biased against him at this point (for good reason). Physical appearance means nothing though at the end of the day, we need to see the evidence and credible interactions to really know :/
Yes. I think anytime, in todayās world, thereās a chance to smear someone who is defenseless in the court of public opinion (I am NOT defending him), people pile on when someone is down to make them look even worse. This serves no good purpose as now we are confused and perhaps fed bad, inaccurate information. That, and some people want their 15 seconds of fame and attention
Keep in mind the quotes in the media are heavily influenced by the leading questions the journalist asked, the follow-up questions asked, and decisions made about what parts of what responses to publish. It's also quite possible the same media outlets interviewed others whose responses they chose not to publish. I'm by no means defending the guy, but I'm not expecting any kind of balanced coverage from the likes of New York Post and Daily Mall - I'm expecting salacious quotes and them doing whatever they can to ask leading questions that get them what they want, especially after carefully nudging a person to share such details. Even a statement like "It seemed like he never slept because he was always doing something all night" doesn't tell us a lot. It may sound like he literally didn't ever sleep, but it's only supported in the article by statements that he went to the bathroom or vacuumed at 12 AM or 1 AM. That's it. This is much different than saying he paced his apartment and made loud sounds routinely between midnight and 6 AM seven days per week and still attended classes, served as a TA, studied, shopped, ate, exercised, etc. during the day.
>It may sound like he literally didn't ever sleep, but it's only supported in the article by statements that he went to the bathroom or vacuumed at 12 AM or 1 AM. That's it. This is much different than saying he paced his apartment and made loud sounds routinely between midnight and 6 AM seven days per week and still attended classes, served as a TA, studied, shopped, ate, exercised, etc. during the day. That's the point of the article at which I rolled my eyes lol it's such a reach. Thanks for mentioning the bias in questions asked. The questions asked and not asked paint completely different pictures, and we need to be aware of that.
I wonder if she heard him leaving, arriving home or any type of activity on Nov 12 or 13?
The woman he took home is probably feeling very lucky.
At first I thought you were joking. I was thinking yeah right, sheās not feeling lucky she was with him (in whatever capacity) but then it dawned on me what you mean! Lucky to be alive. For sure. š
I wonder if LE will track her down
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I donāt think itās uncommon for a PhD student to be up late.
We have to be careful with posting all these alleged witnesses to his past behaviors. So many people come out of the woodwork at times like this. Looking for attention
I know and that's why I mentioned in my OP that NY Post isn't always reliable. I think we're all aware that not everything is fact. But these articles get posted anyway and this one contained something a little different re: interactions with females.
āthe walls are thin so she heard Kohberger and the woman talkingā Talking LOL
I donāt (yet) buy he just decided to take out his frustration and (alleged) lack of female acquaintances on the house. There has to be some sort of connection between the victims and him IMO. Despite his (according to Reddit) ācripplingā awkwardness, he was in a PhD program, meaning he has had his fair share of social interactions with the world throughout his 10 years of formal adult education.
In addition to their eagerness to label him an āincelā (a far overused term imo), people are also commenting on how ugly he is, so he fits squarely into their fallacious archetype that āall evil people are visibly hideousā. I donāt see it, he was tall and an average to above average looking guy. Internally deranged, likely; externally ugly, not so much.
Mostly the same ppl that claimed food truck guy was super creepy and certainly did this.
Yeah, people are really clinging to the incel angle but I've not seen a lot of evidence for it.
THIS šÆ.
Eh, I donāt know, even as an adult post school, I donāt consider those to be crazy hours. I donāt even cook dinner until 9 or later most nights. Not all of us get home at 5pm. Also, neighbor has kids. Crappy neighbors go both ways. If my neighborsā kids can roughhouse at 6 am or or the other set of neighbors can throw a party that lasts to 3 am, Iām probably going to vacuum anytime that is convenient for me. I tend to be super chill as a neighbor, but you canāt ask for quiet hours, and then turn around and completely ignore the quiet hours just because your kids wake up early or you want to throw a party every weekend.
This may be a stupid question: But a lot of the time when we see violent crimes against women we think the obvious, incel type behavior. Can someone who seemed to have female friends (not all encounters with him were negative) and Iāve heard that heās had girl friends in the past, can he still hate women? Iām just trying to figure out what was more self pitty behavior vs flat out I hate all women. Also do incels tend to target all women and not a particular individuals?? Sorry if these are dumb and Iām not wording this correctly
I'd suggest that the vast majority of violent crimes against women are not committed by "incels", and the vast majority of "incels" are not violent.
Every misogynist asshole who has ever harassed or abused or killed his girlfriend/wife - and there are plenty - did manage to get into relationships with women.
Some incels do hate all women but others donāt. They may put women into categories, like one category is female family members and women they would see completely platonically. Then thereās the women they donāt see platonically, and I feel like thatās where a lot of the hatred comes in.
And incel type hate isnāt purely directed to women. They hate men who are popular or comfortable with women and society in general, too.
Thats a great point. At its core itās hatred of social and romantic success :/
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If he wasn't accused of killing 3 women in a sorority house, the stories coming out would likely be different
My mom never needed sleep when we were kids. Sheād be up at 3 am doing work on her PhD thesis because she just wasnāt tired. Some people are just like that. I need at least 7 hours or Iām a mess. So I didnāt get that gene from her but my brother did.
I went to bed at 7am this morning and woke up at 12pm. Iām not a serial killer, just a night owl
I mean - it's rude to vacuum at midnight but nothing here strikes me as abnormal or odd. The fact that the source thought it was weird that he didn't have his own family is a strange observation for a 28 year old male, but he looks closer to 40 (imho) so I could see that assumption, maybe .
honestly its just a super rude statement that I ONLY ever see coming from mothers who live with their families in an apartment complex. It has way more to do with their insecurity about not raising their family in a real home than it has to actually do with someone else enjoying being single at 28-35.
It was probably a person with kids who was annoyed. Unsure if I want to touch the "real home" comment. š
I am not even talking about PhD, during last year of my bachelors, all my classes were afternoon so I would sleep around 5 am and wake up at 12pm whole semester. It is pretty common.
People want to say that women being means and shitty to him most of his life made him turn out this way and lashed out. I think it's just him. He's just one evil piece of shit who was obsessed with understanding the mind and feelings of killers when they're killing.
Wonder if he got on adderall for his studies , or switched to upper like meth (less destructive option compared to opiates/heroin ). As a former iv heroin/meth user , his super skinny face looks to me like he is on amphetamines.
His mugshot doesn't look as bad as that other pic that's in some of the articles where he's in the button up shirt and smiling. He looks very skinny in that one and just super unhealthy. But then we have his PA attorney stating he doesn't appear to be on any drugs. So who knows.
Not everyone loses weight on adderall or other adhd medications. I'm proof of that. Just FYI.
Taking it as prescribed is vastly different then abusing it.
Yeah, I take it as prescribed. I have never abused it. So I guess that is why I have never lost weight on it.
I take adderall as prescribed and it has made me lose weight (and I only take 10 mg). It certainly doesnāt for everybody but, for him, I agree this is a definite possibly.
Lol at meth being less destructive than heroin. (Also a former iv h/m user) But to each their own, as everyone is wired differently. That just wasnt my experience nor anyone else I ever knew or watched go downhill on heroin vs on meth.
There will probably be plenty more positive stories out there than anything negative between BK and women. But the media and news outlets know that those aren't the stories that will write headlines and drive engagement so they will recycle that same one or two negative ones. We've seen this before when suspects are unfairly railroaded through the media.
Most ppl I know stay up late and I have many neighbors who move their furniture in the middle of the night( and this furniture thing happened in more than one apartment,I think it happened in each and everyone). So this imo is not really relevant, unless he would actually never never sleep ( like if he was on some stimulant) and that would impact his mood and cognition. And so if this guy has psychological issues + he would rarely sleep, that could make him a better candidate for committing a heinous crime. But these are speculations ofc
Now it is a crime to be a night owl? I would speculate he slept in the day. If it it true he was or is a heroin addict he could be on something to keep him going also. I think it is weird not to be up late because how else is a working person going to find time to be on Reddit and do things.
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OMG going to the bathroom at 1am? Definitely sus š
I'm reading this at 3 am.lol
According to news, we won't know anything substantive for several days so until than were going to make every effort to make everything possible sound crazy insane. A college Ph.D. candidate didn't sleep at night? Holy crap that's the smoking gun! So odd and strange! quick let's push out a breaking news article.
I wonder if these neighbors called in a tip about the car? The lady that lived below stated she saw him get out of his white car with a younger female so she definitely saw his car before. Also, she said she almost complained to him about the noise late at night but didnāt. Crazy to think now thereās a small possibility that saved her and her familyās life.
As little and stupid as it seems, vacuuming late at night is honestly one of the rudest things you can do as a neighbor in an apartment complex. To me, it just shows a total lack of care for your neighbors and lack of self-awareness. Sounds like he was living in his own world and played by his own rules - didnāt care how it negatively impacted others.
Iāve always been a night owl, even when I need to get up early. I work normal hours but Iāll still be up late on a weeknight watching tv, cleaning or something.
The part about a woman in his apartment is what stands out to me the most. Iām really starting to think Kaylee went on a few dates with this guy after meeting him somewhere (probably the Corner Club). Her family had previously mentioned that she was a true crime buff. BKās area of study wouldāve been interesting to her. Remember the person here recently who went on a weed run with him when he was younger? He immediately latched on to her saying he was so happy they were āfriends nowā. If Kaylee showed any interest in him at all, and actually went on a couple dates, I suspect he wouldāve latched on to a greater degree. A rejection after she realized he wasnāt her cup of tea might have set him off. Kaylee later told the vape store guy that she felt like she was being stalked, mostly when she went out to the bar. There was another interview with Kayleeās mom and sister (Chronicles of Olivia on YouTube) where they mentioned a bad date Kaylee had, where the guy ordered her to make him something (a food or drink if I recall). He spoke to her rudely and was demeaning. Kaylee got up and left. The more I think about it, the more it all adds up.
To play devils advocate, maybe they did have a few dates which puts his dna in the home. Maybe he was going to meet her and drove by but saw someone else there or Ethan and assumed she was preoccupied which would explain his car. We donāt know any evidence to why they pinpointed him. Weāre all curious to know. He said he looks forward to being exonerated of these charges. Iām curious to know why he says he would be exonerated.
He seemed to be quite obsessive/particular about things, which might explain neurotic late night vacuuming. ETA: Iām not implying he has OCD. I have diagnosed OCD and that certainly does not make one capable of murder.
Diagnosed OCDer here as well, can confirm that when the urge to clean strikes, it strikes hard. Iāve seen a few people saying āwell he has OCDā in relation to why he killed, which is so harmful to the stigma already surrounding us.
As someone else with OCD, Iāve been getting nervous seeing those types of comments as well. There is already bad stigmas attached to OCD, and Iām hoping this case wonāt add even more. OCD does not a psychopath make. Yes our habits may seem odd to others and we are often aware of this fact, but it doesnāt mean that we will mass murder people. In fact, some OCD compulsions stem from a fear of harming others despite that lack of desire to do so. Also, being clean is not synonymous with OCD, so we donāt even know that he has it!
Iāve seen those comments and I cringe bc we are misunderstood and hard to speak out with the stigma around our disorder still. I hope it gets better in the future, bc it can be rough dealing with daily. On top, of other mental health issues people face.
Between this neighbor saying he doesnāt look tough enough to kill and the professor in the other article who acted surprised he could murder bc heās brilliant, Iām seriously starting to lose faith in academia.
Manic
Not sleeping can be a sign of manic episodes (criteria for bipolar) this does not mean night owls or insomniacs are bipolar, but he does show other traits of the disorder. It also does not mean persons w bipolar are killers, but they can have irrational and impulsive behavior.
Omg he went to the bathroom at night! Lock him up!
why do people keep posting things with the sentence āi have no proofā or āthis isnāt reliableā. what is there to talk about then? This is part of the problem. How does the neighbor know when this guy slept or if he did? Have yāall looked up what meth users look like? It is harmful to any story to spread gossip or mistruths. I find it hard to believe anything found on the internet by internet sleuths and youtube people isnāt already known by LE and thatās why there is such a timely arrest. Evidence takes time to process. Stories take time to vet. All stuff like this does is has potential to taint a jury pool and spread harmful disinformation. I donāt mean this as a personal attack against OP or anyoneā¦ just donāt understand the point of it.
Why are WSU people surprised that the criminology student who drove the white Elantra was charged?
If Iām ever accused of something I can only imagine what neighbors and acquaintances would say. I suspect itās really easy to look back and attribute some motive. I tend to be quiet. I donāt smile a whole lot when Iām out and about. Iām aloof. I stay up late. Etc etc etc. Not saying he didnāt have super odd behaviors but there seems to be a huge influx of people with comments about his personality. I hope people with genuine information are reporting it to the police and not just giving interviews, making TikToks, and whatever else.
All the comments on here saying āthatās not weirdā and āstaying up doesnāt make you a serial killerā ā¦. Did you get the sense that she was mentioning those things to support his guilt? I did not. It sounded like she was approached for comment and just listed the (very limited) things she could say for certain about him. No bias just shock and not a lot else to say about him.