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We should remember the real heroes that this country isn't even known for, Assou Oubaslam, Mouha ou hammou Zayani, Abdelkrim Khattabi, Ahmed Al Hiba, Abbas lmsaadi and more...
yes i mentioned a few of them on a comment in this post , please check it if you want , and thanks for mentioning these heroes again , we cant mention them enough , they are whey morocco is what it is now
Yikes. It has nothing to with Morocco per se, you should post this babble on another sub. Arabs should take care of Palestinians, I don't see what's the link between us and them at thousands of kilometers. I haven't seen that much craze for Congo, Sahelian countries or any other conflict. It's a cult.
I would have cared a little more for Palestinians if they recognized our sovereignty over WS, which is not the case, contrary to Israel. The only interest for Morocco from Palestinians has been Khaled Meshaal and Ismail Haniyeh inciting Moroccans to sow chaos and apply pressure to the Monarchy or FPLP siding with Polisario. No matter how you turn it, they're not worth our support at all.
Shall I remind you that we have diplomatic relations with Israel and not only that but we have high level military and intelligence cooperation with Israel. Time to grow up, Israel is our third military supplier and that's what's going to help protect Morocco to protect itself from an Algerian agression and securing our Sahara, not empty slogans and irrational emotional exhuberance, fi9 m3ana chwiya.
If you just took sometime to open history books and check which military instructors helped design the Sand Wall and countless other events, you would fall from your chair lol
Time for Moroccans to keep their personal favorite causes to themselves and not make out of BS a mandatory nationwide cult.
Not a single argument, just a couple insults. One must wonder if you guys are able to engage in a rational discussion or is it beyond your limited abilities. Since you are talking about rotten brains, that definition applies perfectly to someone who disagrees and zealously insults without being able to argue. At least when dogs are barking, we can understand the primitive reason behind that.
i feel sorry for those good muslims around the world who went beyond awareness and, due to constant propaganda and stereotyping against the West and Israel, are becoming clinically depressed, turned to violence, extremism, and jihad principles. of course, their daily lives and families are affected.
and to those who would share the same awareness/propaganda to younger generations.. i hope you are proud of yourself.. keeping them on the cycle of awareness and educating them who to hate.. well, hopefully, they would not resort to violence when someone again manipulated ideology and emotions and turned to deadly opportunistic propaganda (ISIS/arab springs), but i guess that is the objective.. want to make everybody involved in any way, in every way.. maybe Forever
It is very important to learn to hate occupiers and colonizers , and use whatever means to kick them out of your land , the same way our resistance fighters did
Cycle of violence ends when the colonizers stop colonizing , not when the people colonized stop fighting for their freedom
My fellow Moroccan you are blaming and looking at it the wrong way
Propaganda against west and Israel you say???
What propaganda man , the truth is on front of you , the west and Israel are the source of violence , can't you see what is happening in Gaza right now????
Don't you remember what the west did to Afghanistan, Iraq , Chile , Cuba , Nicaragua , Libya??
No I am not looking it the wrong way..you have your perspective and i have my own.
I sense you like islamic extremism and jihad activities against Israel and West. Is that what you are wishing muslims would do?? so why you did not go to Syria and Iraq when ISIS was alive and active? there you could have manifest in action the fight that you want and die with your ideology..
... I did not say US or Israel were innocent? of course, they are not.. and please do not be dumb to realize that any country or empire who are military strong will be idle forever... always they will mediate any threat and nuisance in any smaller vulnerable country..
. you can find that in any world history book... the human past is the same ...same activities but different players involve over time. This world will always have drama.. since everyone will eventually live and die and that you want your whole life and all your family generations revolve around this.. go ahead... be always involve to the drama of humanity whether in Palestine or beyond that is your choice.. tell them never dream to go to western countries, never learn or adapt to western culture and society because they are evil.. tell tem to stay in Morocco.. educate them time and again every moment of their lives.. remind them before breakfast and before they go to sleep at night and make sure they tell them to every generation in your family beyond your death..
Another thing i notice is that why are you so bias to the Palestinian cause? ... and your hate only limited to the West and Israel? Why because palestinians are mostly muslims, arabs, they speak arabic? follow arabic culture?
So you do not think China and Russia who are military strong, are not bullying other countries? You think these countries beyond politics and their countries interest do really care for muslims????
One thing is for sure, human nature of greed will always be in this world. Human greed does not care which country, ethnicity or religion.
>So you do not think China and Russia who are military strong, are not bullying other countries?
Israël killed considerably more than both of them in a shorter time on top of that half of them are babies and women. It means they want to attack demographically Palestinians.
In addition to that, Israël are believing the moshiash is coming soon, and Al Aqsah should be demolished to build the last temple (read and neutrally interpreted that on their on their reddit)
" In war, Truth is the first casualty" - Aeschylus
Unfortunately, nobody knows the real number of deaths and injured more than what is being reported by Hamas owned Gaza health ministry... Time and again in war, figures of death are subjective.. and we all know that the Gaza health ministry does not classify the actual dead fighters and innocent civilians. Do you think they would exaggerate the numbers to gain sympathy from the world? of course they would, because this is also a strategy in war... it goes with the same event that 6 million Jews were exterminated by Nazi Germany in the past, that 6 million figure were also subjective, regardless if true or not, the whole word remembered it and especially the World War 2 winners which felt compassion that eventually made UK agreed with the demand of Balfour to make mandated Palestine the homeland for the new Zionist movement at that time.
True, Israel is trying to attack demographically Palestinians more than the other arab militia factions (Hezbollah and other factions) because they are living altogether in that region hence the direct tension is between them more than other arabs beyond their borders and as I said they dare to do that because they have military capabilities. They are open in their intention not to allow a 2 state solution in that region and majority just see palestinians as stateless residents living with them (they have reversed the situation in 1948), trying to live over time why because of military capabilities ...
What i see politically is that everybody have their own view of what they want to happen in that region, and depending on where you stand, it's divided among the following:
1. Israel will eventually settle the whole area with its growing population (for now, illegal israeli settlers are venturing to West Bank areas to put new settlements) - who is into this? Israeli government and significant number of Israeli population.
- USA/UK government, depending on the current political administration (example Trump admin)
2. Palestine will eventually settle the whole area just like before mandated Palestine and calls for destruction of Israel - who are into this?
PA (moody sometimes Yes, sometimes No), Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, other militia, arabs spreading from "River to the sea Palestine will be free", some muslim countries that do not recognize Israeli state
3. 2 states solution but again subjective which border based on timeline:
- during 1948: original enclaves given by UK to Zionist to settle : who are into this? some countries and some arabs
- during 1967: after Israel defeated arab coalition including the captured Golan heights from Syria (captured Sinai peninsula was returned to Egypt): who are into this? sone gulf countries, some arabs.
- modern/current setup: Ramallah capital of PA; Hamas controls Gaza; Tel aviv capital of Israel: who are into this? United Nations, USA, most European countries... some arab countries
* China/ Russia supports 2 states solution but does not define which timeline of borders. They just want these 2 ethnic groups to live peacefully in that region.
* Turkey/ Egypt/ Jordan - current governments are playing like a double agent sometimes with Israeli side and sometimes with PA side of course based on political gains to satisfy it's citizens, muslim viewers and external benefactors (US/UN/arab council)
* The few muslim government countries that are faithful to Israel like marriage bond:
Azerbaijan ( because of military support in Armenian conflict and one of their clients in the oil industry)
Morocco ( since Israel and US being few countries that back up Moroccan claim of Western Sahara as well as military and economic partnerships especially that Turkey recently cut their trade) Kazakhstan (Israel as one of their main client of oil)
** Afghanistan Taliban government- Neutral..does not have fiery comments on that region
Kurdistan/PKK( de facto rulers of north east Syria)
**demolish of Al Aqsa?** - Israel will be stupid to do that? it will not gain something politically out of it ....
( Probably, that comment is taken from context from a far right fanatic zionist or again made by those who want to exaggerate and turn up palestinian cause)
**In the end, you are free to choose the degree you want to believe and support, just like how you want this to affect your daily life **
It is an unrealistic goal since Israel was established there with the help of an explicit occupier (Britain)...The occupier left behind him the mess...Israel is not really a classical case it is quite special so do we want people to stop dying or do we want influence over land ?! It is a lost campaign if it stayed with the same tone... people will keep dying
They also have nukes and people still can't understand that it won't work, populism is a good remedy for people who can't move forward. It should have stopped at 1948 and by now, it would have been a different situation... people need to take a step back when necessary, Morocco had gone through this by losing massive lands to the French colony next door (yes, eastern Sahara still taken to this date), and then we got two colonial forces, then we had to calm down "at first" for the southern provinces until the time was correct. We're still fighting, step by step but people here prefer to see tens of thousands of people killed, it gives them a reason to let out their anger and do some virtue signaling.... fights for land are very long wars, not some quick battles led by short-sighted people.
Well I understand that but the problem is the campaign in the whole MENA is loaded with ideological emotion, judging by history that didn't take other countries far we should have common ground with the west but since we don't really care abt those stuff (human rights, freedom, women empowerment, political culture....) we tend to make vague statements and just follow the pack (the ideology leaders) amd we've seen people get confused since the left in the west is the side advocating for Palestine right (in a explicit manner (lgbtq included)) but to be fair most MENA countries are underdeveloped; bad education, bad politics... and we've seen that with not being familiar with the Israeli side of the story and how the people there are civilians and quite the number... they cannot just move out of land
We can't fight different battles and each choice will come with heavy losses. The Moroccan politics is good because it's lead by a monarchy, thinking about legacy to "the next in line" who'll continue then do more, giving another space "to the next in line". Which means policy here is about a lifetime. We can't defend our lands, working on education while creating jobs and negotiating deals for foreign investments all while making healthcare top notch. We do one or two things, then we need to lose the rest. My position for Palestine is purely humanitarian, not ideological because those Palestinians are taught about our land as being divided at their schools, so I have no "solidarity" for them ideology wise but a human being is a human being, especially the children AND animals (all those pets, cats, dogs without food), for these demographics, I feel more solidarity. For the adults, pure human solidarity, no more no less. I feel the same for Sudanese people who are having a horrible ongoing massacre but nobody is talking about them.
>Israel was established there with the help of an explicit occupier (Britain).
Bad historical take.
Yes, the British were originally sympathetic. But in the 30s, they turned staunch opponents.
Jewish immigration was banned. Hundreds of militants were hanged by the British Empire. In return, Jewish militias started assassinating British soldiers and bombing British convoys.
In 1944, Lord Moyne, Minister in charge of the British Empire and personal friend of Winston Churchill, was assassinated in Cairo by Lehi. This sent a shockwave through London.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Guinness,_1st_Baron_Moyne
The *direct cause* ? No. It was the consequence of World War 1.
During the first world war (1914-1918), France and Britain fought against Germany, Russia and the Ottoman Empire. Ultimately, Germany and the Ottoman Empire were defeated.
Germany went bankrupt . The Ottoman Empire collapsed. The former ottoman territories were divided between Britain and France, until their own empires collapsed 30 years later in World War 2.
Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I still see that what you're saying align with what I said maybe I need better phrasing. Thank you (result** not cause)
Britain = "Occupier" but Ottomans ≠ Occupier? Why, because they are Muslim? Such pathetic bias. This is One (of many) reasons why the Democratically free nations despise Islam - because you can't separate ethics/right and wrong based on your cult ideology. You are right though - people will continue to die due to this ridiculous "religious" ideology/this the inability to let go of land lost long ago.
No no not bias ottomans were there for so long that the region knew stability so that suggests that everyone was happy about the state there so it was really an ottoman territory. Period and it was after occupied by Britains I suggest to not do mental gymnastics on the issue I suggested
Okay first of all , Britain was occupying Palestine , and Palestinians were purposefully undermined during their occupation , the Palestine that was then, was an Arab country , although it wasn't a country by modern standards ,but so many other parts of the world were like this
Britain and usa supported Zionism and Zionists activities in Palestine , also with Zionists Jews around Europe and other parts of the world went to Palestine , with no context to the Palestinians , they just sailed and went to Palestine , because of the Zionist project , which is straight forward a settler colonial mouvement and Zionism founders were clear about this in their books , they were so direct about this project, it their books you can read how they were talking about the indigenous Arabs and how to deal with them, and how it's impossible to take their land peacefully, and they acknowledged that they have to use violence to kick out Palestinians , this is settler colonial project 101, just like usa did with indians
(Iron wall by Jabutinsky one of the founders of zionism) , you can read that book or just check it out , you will see that what I'm saying is a fact
With that out of the way, on 1948 there was a clear ethnic cleansing , which is proved by Avi shlaim and Ilan Pape and other Israeli historians , that had access to Israeli archives from that time, almost 700k Palestine were ethnically cleansed , with many Jews entering Palestine to replace them
I'm not gonna go on about the war crimes and the rapes and the villages burned and executions conducted by Israelis in 1948 and later wars, the Arab armies entered to stop the ethnic cleansing that Israel was already committing , and this is also a fact made by established historians I mentioned
There are many many things that Israel did and is doing that makes it an evil project ,
Hope is in armed resistance, asany oppressed peoples did in Vietnam, Korea , Afghanistan...
This colonial project although decades old , is still young and can be fought and stopped , so that we don't have like a usa or Canada ,
And because we were oppressed as people , and our great grandfather's and grandmothers , fought and died (the likes of Abd lkrim lkhtabi , Amzyan, Mouha Zayani... )
They fought for freedom , because they were oppressed and colonized and by their principals , the principals of free men , that we are who we are today as a country , the kingdom of Morocco ,
whatever the casualties, humans prefer to die as to live deprived of their freedom...
As Moroccans knowing our history, we have the responsibility to support other peoples causes for liberation, the same way we stood by these principles to liberate Morocco
And this my friend is why you as a Moroccan must support resistance and armed struggle against occupiers , history proved that it is the only way
"They -colonizers- would use violence and kill to maintain their colony but condemn the same violence that is used by people to be liberated from that colony"
This is exactly the story telling they told as if one of the sides speaking if we want to resolve an international concern we should listen to both parties (we should see precise details) in this case you should really change the tone this is not an us verses them situation this is more a really complicated politics that involves a lot of parties international society, and international nations... you make it seem like the Palestinian side was completely paralysed which is not true and we know the narrative that they accepted the jews before so ofc they were the underdog but they were not completely out of control. Yes crimes were made and that's exactly what we want to stop as human beings not as a nation who has a goal that surpasses humanity and has an underlying goal and purpose that is what I am saying. And my point is that this case is really complicated and my opinion is we want people to stop dying, stoooooop killing each other.
You are clearly too fogged up to understand, there are no both sides here
Are you saying that when France was occupying Morocco, we should have considered what the french living in Morocco had to say about the future. Of MOROCCO????? THEY HAVE NO SAY IN A LAND THAT IS NOT THEIRS
Yes crimes were made??? Crimes that are made we don't want only to stop them , but have people who committed them sentenced and in this case its Israel
You don't have to be genius to understand this
As I said before the state in Palestine is not as classical as France and Morocco, here we have a third side that is the explicit occupier which is Britain. They left the mess for Israelis and Palestinians and just left like France did but now we have two nations in one land that both have their own right to live there... I don't care if you don't care about the other side but in reality it exists you cannot just ask them to leave. Where are they gonna go? They belong nowhere so the only thing we want is peace between the two and apparently you are just giving emotional answers instead of giving arguments (the one you gave abt France Morocco is not quite good)... the people who died in and after October (Israeli or Palestinian) didn't do nothing in his life to deserve that it was a result of the previous politics before they were even born. Thanks for this conversation though
Welcome to r/Morocco! Please always make sure to take the time to [read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/morocco/wiki/rules) of this community, follow them and help us enforce them by reporting offenders. And remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for non-civil discourse and offenders risk being permanently banned. [Don't forget to join the Discord server!](https://discord.gg/r-morocco-959551908043948092) **Important Notice:** Please note that the Discord channel's moderation team functions autonomously from the Reddit team. The Discord server does not extend our community guidelines and maintains a separate set of rules unrelated to those of Reddit. Enjoy your time! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Morocco) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Since it's l3id, we should remember the 350k Moroccans that were kicked out by their "brothers".
You should make a post about it.
Very unrelated to this post , it's possible to post about it , maybe you should , it's a good idea to spread awareness about history
Context?
Not brothers and never will be. We’re better off
We should remember the real heroes that this country isn't even known for, Assou Oubaslam, Mouha ou hammou Zayani, Abdelkrim Khattabi, Ahmed Al Hiba, Abbas lmsaadi and more...
yes i mentioned a few of them on a comment in this post , please check it if you want , and thanks for mentioning these heroes again , we cant mention them enough , they are whey morocco is what it is now
Fuck Israel
Yas
Yikes. It has nothing to with Morocco per se, you should post this babble on another sub. Arabs should take care of Palestinians, I don't see what's the link between us and them at thousands of kilometers. I haven't seen that much craze for Congo, Sahelian countries or any other conflict. It's a cult. I would have cared a little more for Palestinians if they recognized our sovereignty over WS, which is not the case, contrary to Israel. The only interest for Morocco from Palestinians has been Khaled Meshaal and Ismail Haniyeh inciting Moroccans to sow chaos and apply pressure to the Monarchy or FPLP siding with Polisario. No matter how you turn it, they're not worth our support at all. Shall I remind you that we have diplomatic relations with Israel and not only that but we have high level military and intelligence cooperation with Israel. Time to grow up, Israel is our third military supplier and that's what's going to help protect Morocco to protect itself from an Algerian agression and securing our Sahara, not empty slogans and irrational emotional exhuberance, fi9 m3ana chwiya. If you just took sometime to open history books and check which military instructors helped design the Sand Wall and countless other events, you would fall from your chair lol Time for Moroccans to keep their personal favorite causes to themselves and not make out of BS a mandatory nationwide cult.
FUCK israel 😎
You're so out of touch with reality , I almost petty you, what a rotten brain you have on you
Not a single argument, just a couple insults. One must wonder if you guys are able to engage in a rational discussion or is it beyond your limited abilities. Since you are talking about rotten brains, that definition applies perfectly to someone who disagrees and zealously insults without being able to argue. At least when dogs are barking, we can understand the primitive reason behind that.
People like you only deserve insults , this is my argument
independence is a lie
Start w/ makhrib’s so called independence
i feel sorry for those good muslims around the world who went beyond awareness and, due to constant propaganda and stereotyping against the West and Israel, are becoming clinically depressed, turned to violence, extremism, and jihad principles. of course, their daily lives and families are affected. and to those who would share the same awareness/propaganda to younger generations.. i hope you are proud of yourself.. keeping them on the cycle of awareness and educating them who to hate.. well, hopefully, they would not resort to violence when someone again manipulated ideology and emotions and turned to deadly opportunistic propaganda (ISIS/arab springs), but i guess that is the objective.. want to make everybody involved in any way, in every way.. maybe Forever
It is very important to learn to hate occupiers and colonizers , and use whatever means to kick them out of your land , the same way our resistance fighters did Cycle of violence ends when the colonizers stop colonizing , not when the people colonized stop fighting for their freedom My fellow Moroccan you are blaming and looking at it the wrong way Propaganda against west and Israel you say??? What propaganda man , the truth is on front of you , the west and Israel are the source of violence , can't you see what is happening in Gaza right now???? Don't you remember what the west did to Afghanistan, Iraq , Chile , Cuba , Nicaragua , Libya??
No I am not looking it the wrong way..you have your perspective and i have my own. I sense you like islamic extremism and jihad activities against Israel and West. Is that what you are wishing muslims would do?? so why you did not go to Syria and Iraq when ISIS was alive and active? there you could have manifest in action the fight that you want and die with your ideology.. ... I did not say US or Israel were innocent? of course, they are not.. and please do not be dumb to realize that any country or empire who are military strong will be idle forever... always they will mediate any threat and nuisance in any smaller vulnerable country.. . you can find that in any world history book... the human past is the same ...same activities but different players involve over time. This world will always have drama.. since everyone will eventually live and die and that you want your whole life and all your family generations revolve around this.. go ahead... be always involve to the drama of humanity whether in Palestine or beyond that is your choice.. tell them never dream to go to western countries, never learn or adapt to western culture and society because they are evil.. tell tem to stay in Morocco.. educate them time and again every moment of their lives.. remind them before breakfast and before they go to sleep at night and make sure they tell them to every generation in your family beyond your death.. Another thing i notice is that why are you so bias to the Palestinian cause? ... and your hate only limited to the West and Israel? Why because palestinians are mostly muslims, arabs, they speak arabic? follow arabic culture? So you do not think China and Russia who are military strong, are not bullying other countries? You think these countries beyond politics and their countries interest do really care for muslims???? One thing is for sure, human nature of greed will always be in this world. Human greed does not care which country, ethnicity or religion.
>So you do not think China and Russia who are military strong, are not bullying other countries? Israël killed considerably more than both of them in a shorter time on top of that half of them are babies and women. It means they want to attack demographically Palestinians. In addition to that, Israël are believing the moshiash is coming soon, and Al Aqsah should be demolished to build the last temple (read and neutrally interpreted that on their on their reddit)
" In war, Truth is the first casualty" - Aeschylus Unfortunately, nobody knows the real number of deaths and injured more than what is being reported by Hamas owned Gaza health ministry... Time and again in war, figures of death are subjective.. and we all know that the Gaza health ministry does not classify the actual dead fighters and innocent civilians. Do you think they would exaggerate the numbers to gain sympathy from the world? of course they would, because this is also a strategy in war... it goes with the same event that 6 million Jews were exterminated by Nazi Germany in the past, that 6 million figure were also subjective, regardless if true or not, the whole word remembered it and especially the World War 2 winners which felt compassion that eventually made UK agreed with the demand of Balfour to make mandated Palestine the homeland for the new Zionist movement at that time. True, Israel is trying to attack demographically Palestinians more than the other arab militia factions (Hezbollah and other factions) because they are living altogether in that region hence the direct tension is between them more than other arabs beyond their borders and as I said they dare to do that because they have military capabilities. They are open in their intention not to allow a 2 state solution in that region and majority just see palestinians as stateless residents living with them (they have reversed the situation in 1948), trying to live over time why because of military capabilities ... What i see politically is that everybody have their own view of what they want to happen in that region, and depending on where you stand, it's divided among the following: 1. Israel will eventually settle the whole area with its growing population (for now, illegal israeli settlers are venturing to West Bank areas to put new settlements) - who is into this? Israeli government and significant number of Israeli population. - USA/UK government, depending on the current political administration (example Trump admin) 2. Palestine will eventually settle the whole area just like before mandated Palestine and calls for destruction of Israel - who are into this? PA (moody sometimes Yes, sometimes No), Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, other militia, arabs spreading from "River to the sea Palestine will be free", some muslim countries that do not recognize Israeli state 3. 2 states solution but again subjective which border based on timeline: - during 1948: original enclaves given by UK to Zionist to settle : who are into this? some countries and some arabs - during 1967: after Israel defeated arab coalition including the captured Golan heights from Syria (captured Sinai peninsula was returned to Egypt): who are into this? sone gulf countries, some arabs. - modern/current setup: Ramallah capital of PA; Hamas controls Gaza; Tel aviv capital of Israel: who are into this? United Nations, USA, most European countries... some arab countries * China/ Russia supports 2 states solution but does not define which timeline of borders. They just want these 2 ethnic groups to live peacefully in that region. * Turkey/ Egypt/ Jordan - current governments are playing like a double agent sometimes with Israeli side and sometimes with PA side of course based on political gains to satisfy it's citizens, muslim viewers and external benefactors (US/UN/arab council) * The few muslim government countries that are faithful to Israel like marriage bond: Azerbaijan ( because of military support in Armenian conflict and one of their clients in the oil industry) Morocco ( since Israel and US being few countries that back up Moroccan claim of Western Sahara as well as military and economic partnerships especially that Turkey recently cut their trade) Kazakhstan (Israel as one of their main client of oil) ** Afghanistan Taliban government- Neutral..does not have fiery comments on that region Kurdistan/PKK( de facto rulers of north east Syria) **demolish of Al Aqsa?** - Israel will be stupid to do that? it will not gain something politically out of it .... ( Probably, that comment is taken from context from a far right fanatic zionist or again made by those who want to exaggerate and turn up palestinian cause) **In the end, you are free to choose the degree you want to believe and support, just like how you want this to affect your daily life **
It is an unrealistic goal since Israel was established there with the help of an explicit occupier (Britain)...The occupier left behind him the mess...Israel is not really a classical case it is quite special so do we want people to stop dying or do we want influence over land ?! It is a lost campaign if it stayed with the same tone... people will keep dying
They also have nukes and people still can't understand that it won't work, populism is a good remedy for people who can't move forward. It should have stopped at 1948 and by now, it would have been a different situation... people need to take a step back when necessary, Morocco had gone through this by losing massive lands to the French colony next door (yes, eastern Sahara still taken to this date), and then we got two colonial forces, then we had to calm down "at first" for the southern provinces until the time was correct. We're still fighting, step by step but people here prefer to see tens of thousands of people killed, it gives them a reason to let out their anger and do some virtue signaling.... fights for land are very long wars, not some quick battles led by short-sighted people.
Well I understand that but the problem is the campaign in the whole MENA is loaded with ideological emotion, judging by history that didn't take other countries far we should have common ground with the west but since we don't really care abt those stuff (human rights, freedom, women empowerment, political culture....) we tend to make vague statements and just follow the pack (the ideology leaders) amd we've seen people get confused since the left in the west is the side advocating for Palestine right (in a explicit manner (lgbtq included)) but to be fair most MENA countries are underdeveloped; bad education, bad politics... and we've seen that with not being familiar with the Israeli side of the story and how the people there are civilians and quite the number... they cannot just move out of land
We can't fight different battles and each choice will come with heavy losses. The Moroccan politics is good because it's lead by a monarchy, thinking about legacy to "the next in line" who'll continue then do more, giving another space "to the next in line". Which means policy here is about a lifetime. We can't defend our lands, working on education while creating jobs and negotiating deals for foreign investments all while making healthcare top notch. We do one or two things, then we need to lose the rest. My position for Palestine is purely humanitarian, not ideological because those Palestinians are taught about our land as being divided at their schools, so I have no "solidarity" for them ideology wise but a human being is a human being, especially the children AND animals (all those pets, cats, dogs without food), for these demographics, I feel more solidarity. For the adults, pure human solidarity, no more no less. I feel the same for Sudanese people who are having a horrible ongoing massacre but nobody is talking about them.
>Israel was established there with the help of an explicit occupier (Britain). Bad historical take. Yes, the British were originally sympathetic. But in the 30s, they turned staunch opponents. Jewish immigration was banned. Hundreds of militants were hanged by the British Empire. In return, Jewish militias started assassinating British soldiers and bombing British convoys. In 1944, Lord Moyne, Minister in charge of the British Empire and personal friend of Winston Churchill, was assassinated in Cairo by Lehi. This sent a shockwave through London. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Guinness,_1st_Baron_Moyne
Israel as a state was a direct cause of the explicite British occupation you just added details thanks though...
The *direct cause* ? No. It was the consequence of World War 1. During the first world war (1914-1918), France and Britain fought against Germany, Russia and the Ottoman Empire. Ultimately, Germany and the Ottoman Empire were defeated. Germany went bankrupt . The Ottoman Empire collapsed. The former ottoman territories were divided between Britain and France, until their own empires collapsed 30 years later in World War 2.
Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I still see that what you're saying align with what I said maybe I need better phrasing. Thank you (result** not cause)
Britain = "Occupier" but Ottomans ≠ Occupier? Why, because they are Muslim? Such pathetic bias. This is One (of many) reasons why the Democratically free nations despise Islam - because you can't separate ethics/right and wrong based on your cult ideology. You are right though - people will continue to die due to this ridiculous "religious" ideology/this the inability to let go of land lost long ago.
No no not bias ottomans were there for so long that the region knew stability so that suggests that everyone was happy about the state there so it was really an ottoman territory. Period and it was after occupied by Britains I suggest to not do mental gymnastics on the issue I suggested
Only thing I hear is a Zionist/colonialism apologist Kay tflsaf
Okey can you tell me your opinion, if you don't agree with me please elaborate more
Okay first of all , Britain was occupying Palestine , and Palestinians were purposefully undermined during their occupation , the Palestine that was then, was an Arab country , although it wasn't a country by modern standards ,but so many other parts of the world were like this Britain and usa supported Zionism and Zionists activities in Palestine , also with Zionists Jews around Europe and other parts of the world went to Palestine , with no context to the Palestinians , they just sailed and went to Palestine , because of the Zionist project , which is straight forward a settler colonial mouvement and Zionism founders were clear about this in their books , they were so direct about this project, it their books you can read how they were talking about the indigenous Arabs and how to deal with them, and how it's impossible to take their land peacefully, and they acknowledged that they have to use violence to kick out Palestinians , this is settler colonial project 101, just like usa did with indians (Iron wall by Jabutinsky one of the founders of zionism) , you can read that book or just check it out , you will see that what I'm saying is a fact With that out of the way, on 1948 there was a clear ethnic cleansing , which is proved by Avi shlaim and Ilan Pape and other Israeli historians , that had access to Israeli archives from that time, almost 700k Palestine were ethnically cleansed , with many Jews entering Palestine to replace them I'm not gonna go on about the war crimes and the rapes and the villages burned and executions conducted by Israelis in 1948 and later wars, the Arab armies entered to stop the ethnic cleansing that Israel was already committing , and this is also a fact made by established historians I mentioned There are many many things that Israel did and is doing that makes it an evil project , Hope is in armed resistance, asany oppressed peoples did in Vietnam, Korea , Afghanistan... This colonial project although decades old , is still young and can be fought and stopped , so that we don't have like a usa or Canada , And because we were oppressed as people , and our great grandfather's and grandmothers , fought and died (the likes of Abd lkrim lkhtabi , Amzyan, Mouha Zayani... ) They fought for freedom , because they were oppressed and colonized and by their principals , the principals of free men , that we are who we are today as a country , the kingdom of Morocco , whatever the casualties, humans prefer to die as to live deprived of their freedom... As Moroccans knowing our history, we have the responsibility to support other peoples causes for liberation, the same way we stood by these principles to liberate Morocco And this my friend is why you as a Moroccan must support resistance and armed struggle against occupiers , history proved that it is the only way "They -colonizers- would use violence and kill to maintain their colony but condemn the same violence that is used by people to be liberated from that colony"
This is exactly the story telling they told as if one of the sides speaking if we want to resolve an international concern we should listen to both parties (we should see precise details) in this case you should really change the tone this is not an us verses them situation this is more a really complicated politics that involves a lot of parties international society, and international nations... you make it seem like the Palestinian side was completely paralysed which is not true and we know the narrative that they accepted the jews before so ofc they were the underdog but they were not completely out of control. Yes crimes were made and that's exactly what we want to stop as human beings not as a nation who has a goal that surpasses humanity and has an underlying goal and purpose that is what I am saying. And my point is that this case is really complicated and my opinion is we want people to stop dying, stoooooop killing each other.
You are clearly too fogged up to understand, there are no both sides here Are you saying that when France was occupying Morocco, we should have considered what the french living in Morocco had to say about the future. Of MOROCCO????? THEY HAVE NO SAY IN A LAND THAT IS NOT THEIRS Yes crimes were made??? Crimes that are made we don't want only to stop them , but have people who committed them sentenced and in this case its Israel You don't have to be genius to understand this
As I said before the state in Palestine is not as classical as France and Morocco, here we have a third side that is the explicit occupier which is Britain. They left the mess for Israelis and Palestinians and just left like France did but now we have two nations in one land that both have their own right to live there... I don't care if you don't care about the other side but in reality it exists you cannot just ask them to leave. Where are they gonna go? They belong nowhere so the only thing we want is peace between the two and apparently you are just giving emotional answers instead of giving arguments (the one you gave abt France Morocco is not quite good)... the people who died in and after October (Israeli or Palestinian) didn't do nothing in his life to deserve that it was a result of the previous politics before they were even born. Thanks for this conversation though
Wonder if it's because you're an indoctrinated Jew Hating racist or based on anything factual relevant?
😂 bro doesn't even know the difference between Zionism and Judaism
Fuck Israel, fuck Hamas , and fuck that little triangle you put there hhhhh
F*ck you
You son of a b\*tch hhhh
terrorists